Amalgams and Warlocks Pt.2

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Lets explore the idea of demons fighting eachother

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militarization of demons not in symbiotic form

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or the idea of non militarized familiars

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my favorite, the abyss being an actual plane you can reach

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from here on, just gonna bump with art

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I really think whatever the fuck is happening in Death Stranding would fit very well with this setting, especially this dude's tactical necromancy.

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mostly just posting various demons for use in the possible categorization of them or abilities for them

This topic needs a bump, which is a bad sign that few of the original posters have anything left to say. I think it's time to start going into specific setting details and/or plot ideas for GMs.

I got a world map slowly setting up if anyone wants me to post. At least get some discussion going.

>>53226326
working on the matter of "what questions to ask"

>>53225131
so, given the variability of mages in this setting.

>WHAT IS MIL-SPEC?

what do you think mandated military minimum specs are on a standard mage in the service?

how do you measure the ability of a war-mages with the inherent variability of Demons in this setting?

what different sub-specialties could there be either for milspec or civilian mages?
>>53225173
looks like a good logistics(carrying shit around) form

what about reconnaissance reporting?
>little flyers
>crawlers with eyes
>carving schema into a tree or rock as an awareness expansion

fire support?
>great big launcher demons
>advantage being that a mage is smaller than a light artillery piece, and easier to smuggle. water is everywhere
>throwing big rocks, lobbing grenades, etc.

Medic?
>a many-legged armored box
>it picks up casualties and carries them back to the medics

This was the whole demons game?

Whatever became of the vote? Were they religious in nature and took on those forms or did they become basically weird animals? Because both ideas were cool and it's a shame they don't blend well together.

>>53226596
the vote came out to the more militarized world with demons amalgamations just being called demons. i think, the vote had like 2 in favor of religion when i left it.

>>53226326

Plot ideas are fairly simple, I think. God knows there's more than enough demon shit all over to work with. But is anything about the setting known besides demons and a militarized society? Does magic exist?

>>53225131
QUESTIONS FOR THE SETTING
ANSWER THESE PLEASE
what number of factions?

nature of conflict?

comms tech level?

area of conflict (biome)?

machine-tech level(vehicles)?

proportions urban/suburban/rural/wild?

armor techs?

>>53226596
it got the latter option IIRC

>>53226563
>>53226702
CONTINUING MY RAMBLES.

sap and trap specialties
>programs in reactive demons, they need no further mage input they simply spring to action.
>weakening bridges, triggering traps, etc.
>ripping up railways

digging tunnels
dozing streets of barricades, or suspicious vehicles.
clearing trees for a fast-layout roadways or air-strips

explosive demmo specialist
>sends small VERY disposable demons out to plant bombs for pinpoint demo
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb

if this game plays in a dessert then water becomes a valued resource worth taking and vastly changing the requirements for logistic support to specialist mages

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So i missed left the thread before the vote so my iddas are not in lone with the direction the tread ended but Im postong them any way

First idea(s) was about chargen. Basically it would be two parts, operator style and Familiar form.

Operator style would be how the person works. So there would be one type that uses thier familiara as a suppliment amd focuses mostly on thoer own weapon skills, one that keeps a balance of using the familiar and thier own slills, one that focuses on all efforts on thier familiar with little combat potential themselves and one that focuses on haveing multiple familiars, but each is not as strong as if they focused on one.

>>53227029
Each operator class, except the multi summon one, would get one familiar. The multi class could have up to three but the max level of each would be cut in half for each additional familiar (20-10-5).

There would be seven types of famiars based on the sins and thier contrary virtues. The familiars would gain skills and traits as the level up and can each pick from either trait line, even both bit they would potentially be sacrificing power/ ult skills for utility. The types and their styles would be as follows.

Lust/chastity- lust branch is about stacking status and taunt/soft cc on enimies. Chastity is for team cleanse and buffing

Wrath is ranged damage and dots with big hit at end. Patience is hots and absorb sheild/ damage reduction

Avarice is self buff and hp tank. Temperance is boon copy/share and hp transfer( think blood mage)

Gluttony is pulls leech and pbaoe. Abstinance is knockbacka and area denial

Envy is stealth amd boon strip with some soft cc. Kindness is direct heals

Sloth is skill and option denial. Think Guild wars 1 mesmers.
Diligence is buffer focuaing on haste, retrying rolls ect.

Pride would be boon building single target damage. Humility would be status tramsfer and mitigation tank

>>53225131
I've worlbuilt one setting with EXTREMELY militarised nation, which is divided in castes. One caste is basically bunch of maddest sorcerers ever imaginable. So, I'll write down about their use of demons, defenition of demons themselves and etc. Maybe you'll find a little interesting ideas.

So what is this thread, tacticool militarized Eldritch horrors?

>>53227354
Pretty much.

>>53227372
So when's the SMT crowd gonna show up since that's basically the plot line of several of their games?

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>>53227323
Operators wpuld get to slect feats and like to define what they do, so like long range recon/ damage, engie sappers assault medic etc and then use special abilities from familiers to support and augment thier playstyle. Levels ranging 1-20 and familiar skill tree wpuld be like pic.

Basicaly as they level you can chose to progress vertically for more powerful abilites or horizontal for upgrades/varients on lower level skills

So what background lore is sorted? What does this world look like? How do demons factor into religion? Is Christianity a thing? Remember the Disicples were given authority over spirits and demons by Jesus, and this was later spread to the faithful via the holy Spirit.

I can see a big Protestant/catholic split over the appropriate use of such demons and who can use them (Catholics restricting it to specially trained clergy)

>>53227471
Also let's not forget Kabbalic magic, the works of Solomon, and the Ars Goetica

>>53226596
FMA beat OVERT RELIGIOUS by a fair number.

>>53227398
SMT?

>>53227422
I'd recommend a generic system for the time being, unless someone wants to hold another vote? I personally like Mutants and Masterminds for the variability.

>>53227471
>>53227512
Alternate Universe, last I heard. Kind of like Ace Combat.

>>53227541
SMT=Shin Megami Tensei
Vidya where you use computer software to create and control demons to fight off other, uncontrolled demons.
It's a pretty good series.

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>>53227541
>>53227560
SMT is the eternal chronicles of asshole yhwh vs cute girl Lucifer + other random gods siding up law vs chaos, playing Pokemon with demons and dieties

>>53227560
Thanks for clearing that up. Never played it, but I suppose anyone's welcome to add to the thread. I honestly get a vaguely weebish vibe from the base concept in any case. Whether or not anyone runs with that is their business. I'm here for the Eldritch Horror Military Sim.

I propose anyone who wants to just start making up shit about the setting and see what everyone else thinks.

Ex: There is a large, northern nation in this world called Voyssia. It is a constitutional monarchy with a huge population and deep resources, but they have always struggled to remain relevant technologically. Due to the bloodshed and carnage of the Last War, they were one of only a handful of nations to manage to create and bind a Titan-class Construct, making them one of the de facto Superpowers.

Voyssia is diplomatically isolated, but serves as the economic hegemon of many lesser nations. It tends to forgo safety procedures with regards to Demonic research and development in the name of protecting its people and way of life.

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>>53227651
SMT is inherently more ethical than Pokemon.

>>53227329
In means of lore usage of demons is prohibited. Sumonning a demon is pretty good way to get SWAT to your door faster than unexpirienced mage will end his incantations. But inside stated militarized nation, it's secret pact between governing caste and sorcerer caste, which follows: "we tired of your shit an trying to control you, do whatever you like far enough from your compatriots, just dont get caught, and if your research is not battle platform using enchanted shit as its missles, then you'll get sponsored".
Aaaand this gave a blast. Notable mentions of technologies, acquired because of this pact:
1. Hellbolts. Most overpriced, most dangerous and most illegal ammo in whole setting. Demons are constantly feeling hunger for emotions, events, or whatever the shit is the given demon's source of power. They should be fed to grow, but they won't die of hunger.
When hellbolt is to be done, wondersmith uses a mass-summoning spell. He summons or catches a dozen of demonic beings. They should be either very weak, either strong. Weak demons are sealed into the shell of bullet configured to automatic weapons or into pellet of shotgun shell. It's A-type hellbolts. Strong demons are sealed into pistol bullets, rifle bullets, missles, and other ammo for guns and weapons with lower firerate. After infusion, the preparation starts. They starve the shit outta the poor thing until it's beginning to go mad and lost in anger so much, that it doesn't care about it's favourite "food" anymore. They just want get out of this cage and go to their plane of being. And then the first simulation arrives. A vision to be destroyed. The faster demon ravages bodies and structures, the more nutrition he gets. When it is finally beginning to uncreate envisioned situations in milliseconds, he's good to go to the second stage of production. Sorcerers tweak the nature of given demon thus it cant anymore feel its own level nutrition. All this without letting the thing out of bullet.

>>53227731
Hellbolt has 3 functional parts: the bullet itself, the seal with sign of timed exorcism and demon container. When bullet is fired, the seal is broken, and container goes deep into the target. Demon appears in it's place, wrecks shit as fast as in visions because of instinctive reflex and wildest hunger imaginable. After short period of time, exorcism sign begins working, GTFO-ing demon into it's plane.

>>53226702
Factions! good question. i think we established we were in an Earth like world, but not earth. i like the idea of a whole world of factions to choose from, so a list might be long. so maybe our "crew" just interacts with the one were in and maybe their ally/neighbors. id love to see our military also be allies with another countries military at war or "cold war" with another third one.

conflict, for the most part its a survival or day to day struggle with the ever present threat of the amalgams around the world and in society.

tech level i think was said that it would be a few years ahead of our current tech giving us some play with what we can add.

Area? hmm we didnt discuss much of this, presumably a lot of urban stuff, cities like i dunno seattle or whatever. we could set it in snow, or just in an area that gets all the seasons that way we can have it be green or white depending on how we feel?

We could have a zone known as the "Old Arcadia Ruins" where our old city was located before a tragic demon event that basically chased out all the people. nowadays its over run with various demons, low level on the surface and the strong ones hiding below. and i want this to be desert just cause.

Armor, we also hadn't thought about this, is love to hear some ideas!

>>53226671
random plot ideas can be anything from

demons attacking city, defend it

demons getting smarter and probing our cities defenses to find a weak spot

a highly intelligent demon has risen up to lead them and humanity is in peril

were at war with another faction who is doing not so nice things with these demons and to civilians, so as the america we are, were gonna teach em justice

>>53227354
i dont think we've reached quite that uncanny yet, but we haven't explored the idea of what is in the abyss and what may not be able t leave the abyss

>>53227471
were cutting christianity and religions i think. at least from the main part of the world.

however there could easily be a group or nation that sees these amalgams as messengers from the the gods or our final evolution of humanity.

>>53227541
some people gave a few options in the last thread, could easily find a setting to fit there. but I'm also voting to try it out in m&m too

>>53226563
a couple random questions were posed here
>>53225160
>>53225202
>>53225208

but thats more conceptual, just asking in general, less setting specific.

i think we discussed that anyone can do magic if you try hard enough and work at it, so the military might be chalk full of mages or even have mage units.

high ranking officials are almost always mages.

i did have a question or two however.

Has society always been using these amalgams to their advantage?

how are they viewed?

have people become desensitized or do they still cower in fear at the sight of even a familiar?

can a symbiotic ever break free for any reason?
maybe to find a new host after their old one dies? can they be forcibly separated? what are the consequences? could a symbiotic kill the host out of anger and still feed off the corpse for some time?

>>53227863
>Factions! good question...
>well, lets start with achetypes.
terrorists
anarchists
secessionists
religion movements(is there a holy relic in the city?)
some flavors of militant green-peace
small organizations/refugees
military units(corrupt units, racketeers, extortion, rape, murder? every military has problems like these, they really SUCK)
Paramilitary Contractor units(protecting commercial business interests)
local bigwigs in denial about whats up in town.
and if all else wasn't bad, there are the other country(ies?) militaries in the area
>so maybe a couple of each?
>ideas?
...
.
>tech level
honestly?
I would not mind 60s-70s tech level.
lots of stuff was weirdly primitive in interesting ways. but because of the cold war, tech was BLASTING OUT OF EVERY GOVERNMENTAL ORIFICE you can put in some really cool gadgets.

>city, heavy urban, arid environs.
can work.

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>>53227933
>Has society always been using these amalgams to their advantage?
I believe that, in general, widespread use of Magic, let alone Demon Summoning, is only 2-3 centuries old now. Before that it was very rare, as no formal, systematized means of casting existed.

>how are they viewed?
I propose relatively acclimated. People in general see amalgams the same way someone today might see a robot or android. Some religious fundos don't like it, and Hollywood keeps making movies that push an anti-amalgam agenda, but other than that most folk are cautiously optimistic towards a common resource, if not wary towards a dangerous weapon.

That being said, this setting sort of feels like the worst possible outcome is usually the most likely.

>have people become desensitized or do they still cower in fear at the sight of even a familiar?
Same way people in real life see military hardware. It's glamorized to hell and gone, but up close and personal can impress quite a different feel on someone.

>can a symbiotic ever break free for any reason?
>maybe to find a new host after their old one dies? can they be forcibly separated? what are the consequences? could a symbiotic kill the host out of anger and still feed off the corpse for some time?
I'm gonna say, yes. If the host is "weak" and unable to control their symbiote, or if the symbiote loses their host, they'd certainly be up to take over.

If the host dies, the symbiote should start degenerating into a Partial Construct, forcing them to find some way, ANY way, to get a new host and retain their sapience. Otherwise they simply become a Full Amalgam when they seize control of the body. I can imagine less ethical governments like to implant small bombs in their mages' necks to dissuade the symbiote from doing so. A Dead Man's Switch, if you will.

>>53228034
>I would not mind 60s-70s tech level.
I was originally thinking 80's, but I feel like modern day to near future (5-10 years) is the best idea.

>>53226702
these are just my thoughts on these questions

>what number of factions?
as Metal Gear has been mentioned as a major influence on things, I'm thinking of the world setup being reminiscent of that in Snake Eater & Phantom Pain(and all the games that take place between them), so the world is in the midst of a Cold War between two major power blocs, with most hot conflicts being in lesser nations manipulated by one or both of the blocs
>nature of conflict?
as mentioned it's mostly a Cold War, however since for the most part Magic is(at least in my mind) of limited Strategic usage compared to it's Tactical worth, and in my opinion no form of large scale WMD in the settings(at least ones that won't destroy the user as well as the target), there are more flareups in the conflict than in our Cold War
>comms tech level?
I'm thinking late 80's to early 90's at the latest, so internet and efficient cell phones are both in their very early stages, Magical communication is a bit more sophisticated, but not by much
>area of conflict (biome)?
as it's a global conflict, pretty much any, although I figure deserts and jungles are some of the most common ones for the more active conflict zones(much like how our Cold War worked when it came to proxy wars between the 1st & 2nd World Nations)
>machine-tech level(vehicles)?
for non magical vehicles & weapons it varies by nation, but for the major powers it's roughly at a late 80's to early 90's level in most areas, with a couple exceptions(for one thing I'm thinking Power Armor and small Mecha exist, they primarily exist to counter Warlocks/Witches and Demon Constructs)
>proportions urban/suburban/rural/wild?
not quite sure what you mean by this
>armor techs?
well I already mentioned above Power Armor and small Mecha existing, not sure if I need to elaborate more

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>>53228081
>in my opinion no form of large scale WMD in the settings(at least ones that won't destroy the user as well as the target)
Pic related.

Titan Class Constructs are large enough, and powerful enough to annihilate the world almost on their own. They are weaponized Kaiju. These things are all sleeping in their respective countries' basements waiting for someone to finally hit the big red button and end absolutely everything. Or else drop the whole world into the Abyss.

>>53228071
ooh i like the idea that the government that works with these symbiotic doesn't even trust them completely.

they do have their town personalities and all. whose to say they dont want to turn on the soldiers at a moments notice for some tasty mana.

>>53228081
and now to continue with >>53227471 questions;

>So what background lore is sorted?
well we're sorting it out still, but basic idea is looking to be that while Magic has existed for at least as long as Humanity has(if not longer), it only became an organized and easily reproducible tradition fairly recently in the world's history(like 2-300 years or so)
>What does this world look like?
very similar to our world in many respects once you look past Magic being a thing, but while it is a Earth, it's not OUR Earth
>How do demons factor into religion?
every religion probably discusses Demons and Magic in some form, but since the first Structured form of Magic & Demon Summoning/Binding was approached from a purely secular manner, most religions choose to approach it that way as well, although most organized religions also tend to maintain their own corps of Warlocks/Witches, with their particular teachings tweaked to fit into their beliefs and image(kinda like how there's actually quite a few scientists who are clergymen for the Roman Catholic Church in RL)
>Is Christianity a thing?
Christianity proper I'd say no, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the largest religions in this world has a lot of similarities to RL Abrahamic Faiths
>Remember the Disicples were given authority over spirits and demons by Jesus, and this was later spread to the faithful via the holy Spirit.
well Magic here is more like a science than purely spiritual in nature, and Demons while supernatural in many respects, are also in their natural state more like a very primitive animal than anything inherently malevolent

>>53228177
Well, I mean, people willingly call these things DEMONS. Unironically too. They had to have EARNED that sort of name.

>>53228081
i just want to put forward my thoughts on magic, make the magic take some time to prepare and perform.

you can't just wave a hand and spy on you enemy, you would need materials, a scrying surface, need to know where you're trying to look instead of saying "my enemies secret base!"

watch Jonathan strange and mr norell. they do an amazing job at how magic could be handled, and how the military might initially treat them.

>>53228192
You can't do that anyway. Magic is pretty limited without Demonic aid. It seems like it's limited to an area immediately surrounding the mage, and so far most people seem to like the idea that human magic is pretty weak.

>>53228081
>armor techs?
>well I already mentioned above Power Armor and small Mecha existing, not sure if I need to elaborate more

in a thread about a year ago somebody theorized an armor for a ww2 setting. it ws called "Trench breaker armor" it was basically a wearable tank meant for anti personnel. kinda ike power armor. however the enemy got around this with simple methods like explosives and quicksand/mud. the armor was capable of withstanding standard bullets but couldnt do a thing when the pilot was sinking in mud cause he weighed so damn much

>>53228209
i dig it, i like the idea that the mages can't ever be what D&D has, it lessens the severity of normies in the setting.

man i wish i could continue but i have to get some rest.

>>53228231
Same. Sleep snug anon!

Someone summoned a demon in your bed. It's behind you now.

>>53228237
Aaand I fucked up the spoiler. Need sleep.

>>53228117
I'd say most Titan class Constructs aren't quite world enders, but it is true that many of them are potentially City Busters on their own, main reason I'm not considering them proper WMD's is the fact that it's really damn hard to intentionally manufacture something of that caliber, especially in a remotely timely manner, for example something like Man O War there probably started out as a more standard Demon Construct and probably took at least a decade of growth and change to become that if not more(more or less depending on whether it ever escaped back into the Abyss for any length of time), and unlike any RL WMD, a Titan Construct has a direct counter; another Titan Construct

>>53228192
way I see it the reason Demon Summoning is used at all(beyond the necessary parts relating to Demons being attracted to magic being worked through nearby uncontaminated bodies of water) is that quite simply magic works as such;

regular Magic: slow but generally safe

Demon Magic: fast but riskier

>>53228209
I'd say less that Human magic is weak, and more that not only is it relatively slow(especially if you're doing anything particularly complex, like setting something on fire isn't that hard if it's naturally flammable, but doing something like temporarily altering the freezing point of water in a set area is pretty hard), but it's also a lot harder to scale beyond a certain point

so basically from a military perspective regular Magic is best for logistical purposes, which is why most dedicated combat Warlocks/Witches are primarily Summoners, and most others that see active combat have another role as their primary duty with their magical abilities considered secondary(one of the greatest living combat pilots in the world is a Witch who avoids using summoning magic beyond the bare minimum for example)

>>53227689
that picture is straight WUT

>>53226563
Thanks for the ideas for the quest.

>>53230052
sure thing

I like asking those sorts of questions, finding these details in a game makes it more enjoyable to me...

don't forget to tweet that you're back if you're gonna run some more.

So would you play as a mage or as an amalgam?

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So what are the roles of non magic using/contracted people? Mooks for you to manipulate and kill in horrifying ways? Competent, maybe even deadly in groups?

>>53231333
it really really depends on the ratio of mages to non-mages.

can't even begin to speculate until we have an idea

>>53231333
Nice trips.

The second one. Better for stories, characters. Plus, I didn't think you had to be a mage to be partnered with a familiar. You just can't make one yourself.

>>53230797
Mage probably, with your amalgam being a very proactive NPC swimming in your head, and much more proactive once you transform.

I imagine the heavenly ones are less intrusive into your life compared to demonic ones. Well, less directly intrusive at least

>>53231459
Did we ever figure out what the heavenly ones were or where they came from? Are they just symbiotes that have developed positive/human personality traits?

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>>53231930
>Did we ever figure out what the heavenly ones were or where they came from
We could take a page from Bayonetta and have them come from a reality opposed to the one the demonic ones come from, and who are attracted to righteous or virtuous people

>>53230797
you'd play as a mage or normal human.

>>53231417
im bad at logistics and ratios so i can't give a good answer, but id guess almost half the military, maybe a little less?

>>53231930
i was one of the ones opposed to the heavenly ones

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This whole thread has been done already in this comic, but in a different type of setting. The world lost power when the creatures bonded to people came, so its more like a few centuries ago even though its 2017.

>>53232455
>>53232048
I'd say cut them out or have them just be symbiotes with a positive personality. Adding other dimensions now feels like it dilutes the concept.

>>53231930
>Did we ever figure out what the heavenly ones were or where they came from? Are they just symbiotes that have developed positive/human personality traits?
honestly I assume they're just standard Demons, but ones that have been molded to resemble figures from a religion/mythology(way I see it with enough work you can mold a Demon Summon to look like almost anything, just that most don't bother and leave them to look like their natural state which is Zombieless's style for Demons)

>>53232822
>symbiotes with a positive personality
I'd assume that you'd need an overwhelmingly good personality in order for one to take notice of you?

>>53234522
What? No. I meant that demons gain intelligence and power with mass/time. Ones big enough to be a symbiote would have sapience, therefore a personality. An alien personality, but one nonetheless. A strong willed symbiote with a personality that is ultimately good or positive with regards to human lives and well-being would become a Virtue.

Maybe. I think.

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So wait, is this actually becoming a case of /tg/ getting something done? Cause I'm interested in a game based on this.

>>53232455
>but id guess almost half the military, maybe a little less?
then units have either 50/50 mages to non, with some totally mundane units and the odd all mage units

>>53236764
dude's trying to run it as a quest.
like RIGHT NOW...
>>>/qst/1455491

and /tg/ gets stuff done more often than people give it credit for

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>>53235240
They could be an emerging phenomenon of sorts.

Also, there's a new one from the original artist.

I'm kind of opposed to them being included though.

>>53236817
there's a reason I suggested >>53233002

>>53236764
yea we got a whole lot more done in the first thread, but it took a bit to get off the ground, so i think the same will happen here

So is this still getting updated and stuff by the original artist?

>>53236817
Who's the artist for these again? iqdb can't find it, and Google just tells me that there is a Fictional Character.

>>53240026
Robert Chew. Goes by MasterChew on instagram, and it's the only place he's posted the virtues.

>>53240036
Cool, thanks!

>>53239611
>>53240026

Half of the art is Robert Chew the other is located here

http://zombieless.deviantart.com

unfortunately she isn't updating anymore with the amalgams

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>>53228081
>nature of conflict?
I wonder how politics would go in a world like this. I can't imagine it'd be hard to manipulate a grubby enemy statesman into doing what you want with demon powers

In certain regions, where international law is lax, one can hire the services of a different sort of prostitute. These humonculi are a truly wretched sort, demons forced into human guise. Their inhuman nature and uncanny visage is a turn on for a particular class of men and women. They typically have to be destroyed after a few uses, making them an incredibly expensive luxury. It is not uncommon for wealthy and desperate men to anthropomorphize these constructs and promise to whisk them away to freedom.

That never ends well.

>>53242728
creating demons purely to fuck them, only insane rich lunatics or daredevils would even consider the idea. that being the case, its extremely lucrative if you're willing to cater to these needs.

nothing like busting a demon sex ring.>>53243786

might i propose a system question? maybe campaign question?

alright, say you did follow through on making the game. what system would be used? I've seen a lot of votes for mutants and masterminds (never played it myself) but how well does that system lend itself to non mages? and how would you rule familiars and symbiotes? does the book go over what you can do if you just wanna be a soldier? won't you be out classed? what about mage power levels, we already discussed wanting the mages to be relatively low powered unless theyre using demon magic, how would mutants and masterminds do this?

and as for the campaign, I've seen a few better suggestions for this. but what are you options here, if only mages sanctioned by the govt are allowed to wander around with demons won't that limit you to purely military campaign? i think thats the goal here but I'm just asking questions to advance things.

Maybe a game more based around what the author of the demons has, a men in black/hellboy type game where your hunting down rogue mages/demons

or maybe a metal gear espionage type game where your "unit" is still military, just less firefights and trench fighting.

potentially if your GM wanted to run a game where you play terrorists it could be cool to have a bunch of "rebels" with demons and magic to help take down an oppressive military government.

>>53244397
right, one more question, actually not sure if this one has been answered before.

Whats the benefit to having a symbiote over a familiar? is it because the familiar is feeding off the catalysts energy and the symbiote is feeding off yours that makes the symbiote stronger? does having a symbiote give you access to demon magic?

Could a more powerful catalyst create an even more deadly familiar? could it ever change catalysts?

self bump?