Has ANYONE played Legends of the Wulin?! what was it like tell

It's pretty good. I prefer Feng Shui 2 though.

>>53219625
How does the experience compare/what makes Feng Shui 2 better? Does Feng Shui 2 do better what LotW aims to do or is it an actual difference in appeal that comes down to preference?

>>53219751
FS2 conveys action better in how its combat flows. Now, LotW is a lot better in terms of cleaving toward the Wuxia genre and power level, but the mechanics can be clunky. The highest compliment I can pay to LotW is that it does Exalted better than Exalted does, and it nails the setting.

>>53219883
How's the character creation? How unique can people be from one another when playing the same class/archetype?

>>53219591
Have you tried reading that bullshit? Lakes, rivers, chivalrous joss, waves, ripples? And the editing is god-awful. It's like they didn't want the system to be read or understood by anyone except people that already knew everything the book was talking about. It doesn't make any effort to reach out to people new to the genre. That's a criminal disservice to fans of wuxia, because they have to explain all of this jargon and these concepts to new players, and the system as well because the book sure doesn't. It's self-insulating and unapproachable. It's in serious need of a second pass and de-obfuscation.

>>53220081
Yes, I have. It is a confusing ordering of information but it's not undecipherable, as with any system it would go a long way just to peak with someone who has played it.

LotWfag who is usually more than happy to go on long, explanatory rambles about how the system actually works. Unfortunately I'm on holiday and away from keyboard at the moment, so my ability to do so is limited. Still, have a bump.

>>53221539
AOPIPAW:JLDK GET BACK IN HERE

RAMBLE ON

Finding a game is the hard part

>>53220081
It's not really that hard to understand. I hadn't even seen Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, that's how blank I was when walking into LotW, but it makes sense with a bit of a brain to understand the terminology.

>>53219959
It's pretty easy to differ between two users of one internal style. (chi-based stuff) Each has five ranks, but rank 2 has a choice between four techniques, rank 3 has a choice between three techniques, and rank 4 has a choice between 2 techniques. There are loresheets that give you access to all of an internal style's techniques, though.

External styles (physical martial arts) are simpler, with only five techniques in total. The combination of internal and external styles allows for a lot of differentiation.

>>53219883
>The highest compliment I can pay to LotW is that it does Exalted better than Exalted does, and it nails the setting.
I used to be able to find a hype review "Nerding it up with Legends Of The Wulin" or something, somewhere, that explained this in detail.

>>53220081
The meme of how horrendously difficult reading the book is, is worse than actually reading the book. It's no harder to learn that any other particularly crunchy system, though it can be easier with a different perspective.

>>53223089
>with a bit of a brain to understand the terminology
Seems to be the crux of the matter.

less playable then Weapons of the Gods. All the fucking jargon, and the what 60+ page errata.

>>53224986
I don't think the book explains how loresheets work very well.

>>53224986
You're thinking of this:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2012/01/11/nerding-it-up-with-legends-of-the-wulin/

>>53219591
I've done a lot of mock games against myself, hard finding people to play this.

Give me a starting place, what do you want to know?

>>53225603
I disagree that it did a bad enough job of explaining loresheets to warrant being singled out for it.

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>>53219959
Every character has several layers to them, the first is really who your Character is, what your concept for him is, how you flavor him. Then you have External Style of KungFu that allows for several types of weapon or a special weapon, with that you have an Internal Style which can be any of the available or made up styles. The system is really easy to homebrew for because the actual costs of moves and their bonuses are consistent- same with that every External Style has a total of 35 points in attributes and 20 points of technique to learn.
LoreSheets then change up how you use both the External & Internal style, giving you bonuses for using them in certain ways.
Then you also have Secret Arts, which between each archtype can be entirely different and each character can focus on entirely different things under that secret art.

>>53220081
The lack of a central interested community for this game hurts the most.
Second is that the book is terribly edited.
Funny enough I hear they let the unpolished version get leaked to pirates but apparently this is the only version of the game that has become popular.

>>53224986
>The meme of how horrendously difficult reading the book is, is worse than actually reading the book.

I think people just need to take notes, or someone needs to volunteer to be Wuling Mengzhu and sit in a Roll20 room teaching this shit til its popular again

Also this was a good read: https://lparchive.org/Legend-of-Wulin-Heroes/

>>53219883

Can you go into how FS2 combat works? I played the original, but while thematic and fun the combat seemed nothing special and lacked much in the way of meaningful choice or strategy, very different to LotW.

>>53225562

As someone who's run both, LotW is smoother in practice. I have fond memories of WotG, but it really is janky as all hell.

>>53226477

As someone who bought the book (before discovering that the company behind it had imploded after the chinese side bailed with all Jenna Moran's kickstarter money), that release isn't much better.

The game could have done with more testing, more editing and generally more work, but it will never get it.

Also, I should mention wulinlegends.pbworks.com to the thread in general. It's a good resource with the same caveats homebrew usually brings. Zechstyr and Sage Genesis are two really reliable guys, basically anything they've made is good.

Someone tell me if this is right or not?

I just made a character and I spent all 20 destiny at the end on both External/Internal jutsu

Does that mean I have 10 Cultivation for having an Internal Style and then 20 Cultivation to spend right off the bat?

>>53226967

Assuming it's all Neutral cultivation, you'll start at 10 Chi, and 30 cultivation between your Internal and starting Destiny spending.

That puts you at 12 Chi and 9 cultivation (30-10-11) towards your next point.

If your GM is using the starting entanglement rules (which IMO they should) you can likely hit 13 Chi at chargen.

Then again, this is kind of why elemental chi is bullshit, at least RAW. An Elemental Chi user can end up with 3 Elemental/11 normal quite easily, giving them more Chi of greater efficiency plus an implicit breath bonus.

>>53227128
I always go
11 Chi
3 Elemental

Don't know if that isn't supposed to be a thing you can do

>>53227158
Excuse me, I'm retarded and didn't read your last sentence

I think its still better to go Elemental since you can use it as normal, just doesn't give you x2 for non-elemental things

>>53227165

RAW Elemental is straight up better. It's one of LotW's implicit balance problems.

>>53220081
This. LoW is an excellent system, an amazing system

But it was written and edited by masturbating retards.

>>53227185
anything legally stopping someone from fixing the umpteen million problems with the game and reselling it under another title?

>>53227218

I bloody well hope mot, since my friends and I are halfway through an attempt.

The company imploding likely helps.

Would anyone be interested in doing some fights?
Don't know how well I could adlib a One-Shot but doing a few meaningless clashes should be fine.

>>53227235
You've got a blog or anything where I can keep track of your progress?
I wouldn't mind throwing my two cents at things-
or we can just trade notes whenever I get around to penning my own version of things.

>>53219959
>How's the character creation? How unique can people be from one another when playing the same class/archetype?
This is something I will never understand. Same class, fair enough, but if you want to be different from one another, why the fuck are you playing the same specialization to begin with?

Hey, they're playing my song.
>Has ANYONE played Legends of the Wulin?!
I have.
>what was it like
The first two times, great, the third, not so great. Having people who "get" the genre helps.
>tell me everything
That's a lot, could you narrow it?
>how the fuck do you find a game
I dunno, I basically only play with people I already know and have known for years.

>>53227363
Characters themselves rather then a random statblock is more important then your archetype in LotW, honestly.
ALL of your combat abilities have nothing to do with archetypes, that's more like the choice that decides your primary secondary skills in one sense.

>>53227365
holy shit! WulinSage is alive?!

>>53227363
I think its a fair question.
Two courtiers don't have to approach being charismatic in the same way.

After all this isn't a game of Ninja Turtles but you can put a different face and catch-phrase on each turtle.
You both can be heavy hitters with different approaches and techniques, you can both be battle brothers from the same house but with mechanics that fit your character better
i.e. Honest Joe & Blossom Harvest and his cantankerous jerk brother Bone-Fed-Wolf John.

>>53227404
>WulinSage is alive

WHAT!? THAT MAN! IT COULDN'T BE

>>53227365
>>53227365
What made the third try so terrible?
I ask because I've often thought of using this system for different things, dbz mostly.

>>53227409
One of my games I ran of it had one player who was an educated scholarly Courtier type-guy who used Blossom Harvest and Iron Body Skill, because in his words "brute force is simply more effective and more efficient when you stop using words and must rely on fists."
He was the kind of flowery effete gentleman guy, except when he tore his shirt off he as built like a dump truck and could break spearheads by flexing his pecs real hard at them.

>>53227328

Nothing yet, although I post pretty regularly when LotW comes up on /tg/. There's a #LotW channel on the sup/tg/ IRC but it's pretty dead most of the time.

>>53227457
as a JoJo fan I find beating the shit out of someone is often the most charismatic thing you can do

>>53227404, >>53227420
Yeah yeah, I ain't dead.
Don't get your undies in a bunch over it.
Felt wrong to post in a LotW thread without the trip even though I don't usually use it.
>>53227436
Ooooh...well...because the third game had players that thought Naruto was the same thing as Wuxia, basically?
So DBZ might not work, because genre-wise it's pretty similar but changing some of the fluffy words around.
That said, strip away enough terminology and anything can work; there's literally no system for universal "chi blasts", but I guess you could fluff it as a generic ranger attack.

Japanese martial arts fiction stuff works different from Chinese martial arts fiction stuff honestly, with the notable exception of Hokuto no Ken which is really just a post-apocalyptic Wuxia story anyway.

>>53227486
I was in there before.
The people are helpful but they're not very eager to play

>>53227493
>Japanese martial arts fiction stuff works different from Chinese martial arts fiction stuff honestly

seems pretty similar to me.
what are the differences?

>>53227493
>strip enough terminology

All it would need:
>Racial Loresheets
>A generic internal style for 'dumb guy with big fireball'
>Handwave the existence of weapons somehow
>If DB leave zones and footwork alone
>If Z make zones huge

>>53227511
Do you REALLY want me to go into greater detail?
Because I can,!and it would be long-winded and annoying to everyone on here and would probably necessitate me explaing the differences between Japanese culture and storytelling and Chinese culture and storytelling, which I'm pretty sure nobody on here wants to sit through like some useless lecture.

Nanohafag here, reminding folks that LotW is surprisingly flexible and has worked great for our magical girl game for years.

Most of it is just scaling the fluff of things and being okay with fluffing courtiers arts attacks as friendship lasers.

>>53227531
Write it down in a Word doc, bake it into a PDF, and attach that to a post. People who want to read it will do so, people who don't don't have to get bothered by it.

>>53227522
Exactly.
Removing a lot of the fluff makes it able to do it because the system is chiefly narrative in nature; as long as you utilize the narrative part correctly it still works.
The difficult part came from when players in my Naruto-wannabe game seemed to not realize that narratively speaking, Naruto's storytelling system talked about "styles" and "martial arts", but in a very real way was mostly about pulling various completely unrelated superpowers out of your asses, some of which don't even require physical contact or conditioning on your part.
If you replaced "ninja" with "mutants" and changed "forest and mountains" to "city" you could turn Naruto in a very weirdly written X-Men comic book.

>>53227558
I'm on a cellphone, no can do.

>>53227531
Don't be so harsh on yourself man, some of us actually want to know more things.

Sitting here now I'm actually perplexed how a hot-blooded anime character wouldn't fit into a Chinese Wuxia setting aside from most of them being shallow-ish characters obsessed with black & white good and evil and preserving the status quo instead of with their culture.

I can see a Narutard being an obnoxious fuck with a one-note character, but the one-note reference memelording seems to be the only way it would be totally out of place.

>>53227549
>Nanohafag

Will that game ever be concluded? I read through it on rpgnet

>>53227565
So less of a character who wanted to grow and interact with the world- and more of a character who just wanted to hit Super Saiyan and ignore everyone elses cool shit by sheer force?

>>53227575

RPGnet? Might be a different game, the writeups for my campaign are on sup/tg/

And I'm poke the guy who did the storytime threads. The game is still going, but he's been super busy, having his third kid/moving state/getting a new job and such.

>>53227594
My Mistake, I was thinking Nihao Honey.
I'll check yours out

Anyone have some good advice for writing loresheets? I like to throw new stuff into the game, but I run out of ideas really quick for actual bonuses to put on them. What ones in the book make good templates?

>>53227627

Honestly, I just make them up as I go along at this point. A player gets interested in something? Make it a loresheet, talk it over with them to come up with cool stuff that it could do.

Although Entanglement is one of my big issues with LotW. That the exact same progression currency can be spent on one time events, pure fluff benefits and real, potent mechanical bonuses very much rubs me the wrong way, as without careful GM side management you could end up with a significance competence gap between two PC's.

Plus, in general I hate the idea of being forced to choose between between cool fluff stuff and mechanical benefits. It's never fun.

>>53227575
>Sitting here now I'm actually perplexed how a hot-blooded anime character wouldn't fit into a Chinese Wuxia setting aside from most of them being shallow-ish characters obsessed with black & white good and evil and preserving the status quo instead of with their culture.

It actually has to do with the VASTLY different ways Japan and China culturally see things in modern times.
Hot-blooded characters do exist in wuxia; in fact every other character is one of them, but a shouting warrior who overcomes his challenges by shouting louder and drawing on his inner reserves of strength actually isn't a character archetype.
In fact, the hotter-blooded a character is, the greater chance he's going to commit some horribly grievous crime that ruins his life and turns him into a villain or sets him on the run from his old allies.
>>53227589
Exactly.
See, in DBZ there is no interaction between styles and forms and stuff; many characters (Vegeta) don't even have any actual combat training.
They're just MORE POWERFUL then other people, so they win.
It's actually elaborated a bit more in the Dragoball manga; humans had naturally less energy reserves then more powerful races and so kind of developed more elataborate training methods to use it and overcome these limitations, with even seemingly "basic" stuff like the Kamehameha breaking the "rules" of how Saiya-jin understood how inner energy manipulation abilities worked.
The alien races that were more powerful actually never needed to learn any special tricks because you learn tricks when you aren't already so powerful that you can plow through 80% of the universe with zero effort on your part.

>>53227681
>fact, the hotter-blooded a character is, the greater chance he's going to commit some horribly grievous crime that ruins his life and turns him into a villain or sets him on the run from his old allies.
Jesus, THIS. Watched a bunch of wuxia shows, and the "wise" characters are really just characters who aren't total autistic idiots who overreact at everything at all times and display basic common sense when it comes to conflict resolution.

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>>53227681
>In fact, the hotter-blooded a character is, the greater chance he's going to commit some horribly grievous crime that ruins his life and turns him into a villain or sets him on the run from his old allies.

I want in on this

>>53227702
One of the Condor Heroes shows?

>>53227710
....yes? how did you know?

>>53227716
They remake Condor Heroes and Return of the Condor Heroes every other year or so, alternating between which one.
If you're lucky you might get Heaven Sword/Dragon Saber, but mostly it's those two.
Condor Heroes has been made into 9 separate TV shows and Return has been made into 8.

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>>53227681
Unfortunately for DBZ a lot of things got swept under the rug and entirely taken for granted by the writers/ animators afterwards.

Things like how fast DB & DBZ characters were moving.
That there were actual different styles with different aims;
Crane Style seemed to be an imitation of Evil King Piccolo's Demon Style.
Though by the time Future Trunks & Adult Gohan rolled around it seemed like Demon Style was actually a metaphor for Self-Taught/fatherless.
It wasn't until Piccolo Jr had his first fight that the show then entirely hinged on beam spams.
Vegeta is just introduced too late for his martial style to matter at all.

DB has always suffered the Power Level problem since day one, but its roots were at least kind of near some Wuxia.
I don't want to Dragon Ball Wulin because DB was super Wulin, but because DB benefits from that kind of structure.

If you want I can go on a lore tangent about what was really going on in the Frieza or Cell saga. I have wasted my life to know these things

>>53227774
I already know these things too and my life isn't wasted at all, so no need to stress yourself.
Point is, DBZ has some divergent storytelling then standard wuxia.

As long as we have a semi-active group here

How does the after-battle ripple roll work?

You just automatically create a condition at Ripple Roll difficulty to overcome?

>>53227594
Can't find yours.
The thread comes up empty

>>53227870
It's like one last damage roll using all the accumulated Ripples right after the fight ends.
Unlike regular fight Ripples, the Conditions can be non-violent in nature, like an unhealthy obsession to beat someone after you loose to them so badly or falling in love with them.

If you don't get why it happens, that's actually a Wuxia storytelling thing; injuries people get in fights in wuxia stories are actually fairly rare and they STICK AROUND.
One notable example as a character receive a blow in battle that injures him so badly that his ability to function at full power is nonexistent for half of the novel because the injury is just that severe and difficult to heal.
It makes for an interesting narrative situation where injuries suffered DURING a fight don't matter as much as injuries you suffer AFTER it, as many such injured characters are reluctant to engage in fights after they get hit so bad due to the deabilitating affects of these injuries.

>>53227898
Tell me something cool of one of your good Wulin sessions.
I can't get enough of this game, because there isn't enough

>>53226218
interesting read! someone contrast that with Feng Shui 2 please

>>53226252
having read the nerding up article, can you give a few examples of how Ripples, Conditions and altering your behaviour work in actual practice?

particularly to highlight this:
>These build up and you’ll reach a point where you cannot effectively attack or defend, and you are Taken Out.

>>53226826
>The game could have done with more testing, more editing and generally more work, but it will never get it.
so do it yourself and bleed it anonymously out onto the internet. of course, the author might then sell your work...

>>53227943
I've never touched FS2

But tthere is a trend at rpgnet to make 'sell me' threads for new games.
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?774794-Sell-me-on-Feng-Shui-2

Of course each & everyone of them is the maker shilling his own game on a faux account

Recommend me Wuxia movies! Do it do it do it!

Jesus, I love when you guys give so much exposition on them wutianlinxia stuff. I'd love to make a game out of It but goddamn I know so little. I recently started reading Spirit Realm and It's super hype to me.
Is there anything I could watch on youtube or otherwise stream to get to know more of this kind of shit?

>>53227964
Snake in Eagles Shadow, Hands of the White Lotus, Dirty Ho, Five Deadly Venoms (careful, some of the translation is really bad), Master of Tai Chi, Iron Monkey, Hero, House of Flying Daggers, Crouching tiger Hidden Dragon, Shaolin Wooden Men, Return of the Five Deadly Venoms.

>>53227992
Oh, also, The Kid With the Golden Arms.

>>53227941
One of the more inventive ways a player used an after-battle Rippling roll was this;
>fight is between a swordsman and a doctor who used poison arts
>fight is pretty even, mostly they just deal superficial wounds to each other and it's a stalemate, so they stop fighting
>fight ends in a draw, after-battle Rippling roll happens
>Swordsman rolls first and gets a Minor Condition that affects his Action.
>Killing Doctor: "It seems as though our skills were even, though you seem to be the worse for wear."
>Doctor gets his Rippling roll, and he rolls TERRIBLY on it, getting a Major Condition.
>Swordsman: "Indeed, though I am the victor in the end."
>Doctor: "And how is this true?"
>Swordsman: "I can train, and one day I will be stronger then you. You however will still be a tasteless hack with no art or class until the day you die."
>Swordsman basically says the after-fight Rippling roll is him delivering the sickest possible burn ever, giving him a Major Breathing issue due to the sick parting insult attacking his sense of character so deeply that he remains butthurt about it afterword for months and causes him to loose his ability to center himself in a fight over how assblasted he is over the insult.

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>>53227979
Go watch the Taiwanese Swordsman series.
It's a great example of the genre and has good production values and has a love interest who is at once both the main villain and the heroes love interest.

And she is super cute.

>>53227979
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Wulin+Hero+Quest
This is a good primer to the genre.
I hated Quest Threads and I loved this one, JUST this one.

>>53228041
Oh come the fuck on!
Like I don't ALREADY feel guilty enough for not finishing it, you gotta bring it up on here?

>>53228001
That's RZA's favorite kungfu movie.

>>53227956
Okay, Ripples are basically...combat stress. It's not injuries but it's getting tired, making more and more mistakes.
Conditions is catch-all for "this causes either problems or benefits in specific situations", with injuries being a specific kind of condition.
A good example is if a guy gets his legs cut up by a saberman's bladework, if he fails his Rippling roll he can get an Action Penalty Condition to using any Footwork (movement and dodging instead of blocking or partying basically). Now if he uses his Footwork normally in-game as though he's not hurt, he gets a Penalty to the result of his rolls. If in-character he doesn't fly around or jump a lot and instead has his character act as though his legs are fucked up and his mobility is limited, he gets ZERO penalties.

Basically, you can ignore these penalties if you voluntarily play up the problems Conditions cause, which can actually either help enforce good roleplaying OR simply have said penalties act as accumulated combat damage depending on player preferences.

>>53227964
I'm quite partial to Kung Fu Hustle, Journey to the West, Hero and whatever that netflix movie was about the retired champ who ended up in jail and then has to hunt down some Kung Fu Killer whose running around 1v1'ing every past expert.
I don't know if any of this is specifically Wuxia related.

>>53227956

In combat, Taken Out is achieved either by an extremely high damage roll or by successfully inflaming an already existent Major Injury. The way conditions limit actions aren't directly related to this.

>>53228118
Hustle is, Hero is, Journey isn't, and I don't know the last one.

>>53228029
The 1998 one or the 2013 one?

>>53228164
2013.
It makes some pretty heavy altercations to the original story, but it was still really well-recieved and the changes made the new series fairly fresh even for people familiar with the story.

>>53228118
>whatever that netflix movie was about the retired champ who ended up in jail and then has to hunt down some Kung Fu Killer whose running around 1v1'ing every past expert
Kung Fu Killer?

Speaking of movies with forgotten names; there's one I've been trying to find about a guy who, while in prison, decides he wants to win this tournament. I don't remember a whole lot from it - a scene of him in prison punching his fists into burger meat against a concrete wall, an earlier scene of the same guy as a male prostitute, and the end of the movie where his final opponent is wiping the floor with him, leading to headbutting the guys fist (and breaking it).

>>53228312
I think it was Kung Fu Killer
>>53227956
I just wrote up a big thing about fighting a Centipede throwing motherfucker but looks like these guys got you already: >>53228013
>>53228125

>>53228312
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093714/

???????

>>53227992
>>53228001
personally, i would add drunken master. and not surprised to see snake in eagles shadow head that list.

>>53227493

>That said, strip away enough terminology and anything can work; there's literally no system for universal "chi blasts", but I guess you could fluff it as a generic ranger attack.

Oddly enough, I'm using LOTW to run Dungeons: The Dragoning of all things.

But then, as was said: LOTW can run Exalted better than Exalted. So it flows from that.

>>53228132
you can, however, draw plenty of stuff out of chinese/eastern martial art movies in general, regardless of which period they are set in

>>53227531
Yes, of course. Who wouldn't interested in the minutiae of Chinese vs Japanese culture and storytelling? That's crazy talk, man.
I'll now patiently await your detailed and enlightening response.

>>53228364
Not quite. It's asian, and while the training starts in prison, he gets out after that.

Damn. This has been bugging me for a while now. Even trawling through martial arts movies hasn't helped.

>>53228512
Remember any character names or anything?

>>53228487
I'm about to pass the fuck out here, this will be brief.

Basically, "styles" and how they interact with each other is not as important in most Japanese media, and instead individual techniques in those styles are. Example: one guy fights another guy and the other guy is loosing, other guy uses a new techniques, tables a turned, he wins fight. You see it in anime all the time.
In wuxia, while individual Forms might be more useful in certain situations, combat is at heart WILDLY realistic; it plays out like a chess match where if your Forms and skills counter your enemies then he looses because nothing else he could bring out could counter your techniques, akin to being put in martial checkmate. The Laughs At/Fears system in LotW is there to represent this narrative thing, showing how some methods (regardless of how you use them) just will be less effective against certain styles because you're prepared against them.

Next; wuxia heroes NEVER do the "Yamato-damashii" thing where the hero digs deep into internal reserves and arbitrarily creates a new technique or gets more powerful. This comes from how deeply Yamato-damashii is entrenched in Japanese culture; it's like saying the Japanese people are so exceptional that they if they try their best they literally will exceed their limitations for no reason. Compare to say, if someone being held up by a guy with a gun believed American Exceptionalism would allow him to magically get faster then the bullet because he believed in freedom so much and you'll see what I mean. Even though it's not actually CALLED Yamato-damashii anymore it had been so pervasive in so much of their media for so long and you can't really escape it due to how many later creators it's influenced.

Wuxia heroes don't just get more powerful mid-fight; they usually work their asses off for it by learning new styles or refining their skills or improving. They don't just say "I MUST SUCCEED" and then have their power level jump over 9000.

>>53228579
>WILDLY realistic
wildly UNrealistic.
I have to stop posting at 3:30 AM.

>>53228583
Good night man.
Look forward to seeing you again

>>53228579
Wuxia DOES have examples of "heroic spirit", but it never lets them magically become more skillful or more powerful. In fact the usual way it happens is that they pick themselves back up after being defeated and throw themselves with determination into the fight...and then promptly get their asses beaten down again because raw determination doesn't really add up to shit in the genre if you don't have anything backing it up.
Generally a character WILL later win a rematch, but only after training learning some new skill that allows him to beat his foe, or at least match him in skill.

This probably comes from China's greater emphasis on respecting handed down knowledge and tradition; Japan has a respect for that sort of thing too, but recall that in the late 19th century they basically dumped their entire culture in favor of Westernization and fetishizing Western shit, and then when samurai ideals made a comeback after WWII they lost a huge war because of them and then America parked it's ass on them for twenty years; this caused the idea that older knowledge is inherently better knowledge to somewhat fall in favor because they had to deal with some pretty severe long-term cultural consequences because of this belief, so instead of "handed down knowledge and older ways are better" it gets turned into more of a "respect your elders" type thing.

>>53228560
I wish - that would make this relatively easy, instead of being a brick wall to beat my head against occasionally.

>>53228629
What did they look like? Bruce Lee-oid, Chow Yun-fat-esque?

>>53228579
>>53228625
Thanks. This is awesome. Do you know where I could go to find out more about this sort thing?

>>53228708
Books on Chinese culture from your local library.

The HKAT! 1e Triad sourcebook is pretty good for a brief overview/history of the Triads and their place in Chinese fiction. Pity there aren't any scans of it floating about. I might type up some bits of it.

>>53228708
Not really. You just have to watch a lot of wuxia and pay attention to the commonalities between them and how they differentiate themselves with Japanese storytelling.

Oh, one last thing; most wuxia stories have absolutely zero sense of pacing. None at all.
This is probably because the classic ones were serialized first in newspapers before being turned into novels, and because the way Chinese film studios film a tv series (which is how they adapt most classic novels most often) they film it ALL AT ONCE rather then a couple episodes at a time.

>>53228650
Memory is a bit sketchy, but let's think. I found it in a pirate dvd shop in China, 2007/08, so it was probably from that decade. I didn't recognise the actor, but I'm guessing Japanese or Korean. More of a lean martial artist than Chow Yun Fat's cheek cookie pouches?

>>53228887
Maybe this list might help?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_martial_arts_films

>>53228907
Not that I can see.

You'd think, given the details are fairly unique, someone would recognise it, or there'd be some way to find it. How often does the protagonist's progression go from paid sex to martial arts? Or wind up losing in the final fight?

Bump for Wuxia

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pic related?

>>53231173

Man, that's really useful. /tg/ is great for this sort of info.

bumpan

So, anyone heard about the guys working on an evolution of LotW with more focus on Xianxia?
I think the title is Tian Sheng, but I can't find much about it.

>>53235143
They have weekly Xianxia threads on thursday I think.
I didn't see any system talk, but thry were posting literature

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For all the guys talking about DBZ
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31707

>>53227363
This isn't about some sort of specific contingency in which two people play the same class it's a gauge of the depth of character creation.

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If i ran a one-shot would anyone be interested?

>>53238604
yes
Wind#5574

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>>53238753
Is that a roll20 name?
I'll organize something later tonight.
Im out doing mother's day things for awhile yet

>>53239250
Anything that's [name]#[four digit number] is Discord.

>>53228579
>Compare to say, if someone being held up by a guy with a gun believed American Exceptionalism would allow him to magically get faster then the bullet because he believed in freedom so much and you'll see what I mean. Even though it's not actually CALLED Yamato-damashii anymore it had been so pervasive in so much of their media for so long and you can't really escape it due to how many later creators it's influenced.
I really want to play this character now.

>>53238604
I would definitely be interested in this.

>>53238753
>>53239874

https://app.roll20.net/join/1661580/3T38-Q

fuckit, its worth a shot then.

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I've had this idea kicking around in the back of my skull for a long ass time about running a Street Fighter/KOF game in LotW
Just need to work out the loresheets and figure out how I want to do projectile attacks like the Hadoken

>>53243962

There are 2 Chi Internal techniques which let you attack into an adjacent zone. Could just make that a universally available Formless technique or some such.

>>53243962
Would they really need to be projectile attacks?
Zones are already vague, they can just be part of a description

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>>53243986
That's what I was going to do since it seems like the easiest way of handling it
But this sounds like it could work to >>53244036

Really I want to capture some of that cutscene magic, after binge watching some fighting game story modes I really got a hankering for that style of game. I figured LotW would work well since most fighting games tend to have a lot of wuxia elements mixed in, like a hidden "society" of superhuman martial artist, a complex web of relationships and grudges, a tendency to fall back to one on one duels out of martial pride and honor and ton of other stuff.

I thought about doing Mortal Kombat first since I honestly prefer it to the SF/KOF games but I figured they would lend themselves to keeping NPCs alive since you aren't konditioned to expect a FATALITY

>>53244176
Also, if your setting is overly Unarmed you can either give lore-sheets that let you use your unarmed like a weapon
or give formless techniques that make certain attacks act like if you had a weapon
or just have certain styles behave as if they had a weapon

We're discussing a One-Shot in here: >>53241128
Even if you don't plan on playing I wouldn't mind another voice/opinion

>>53239801
Isn't that the functional principle of Broforce?

Hey thread I've got a question.

I was just looking at entanglement and saw this:

>You gain an amount of Entanglement equal to your
>score in the corresponding virtue. These points are similar to
>Destiny, with one very important difference: you don't get to
>spend them. Instead, the person who granted you the Deed
>immediately spends them for your character, on Loresheets
>related to your Deed and its circumstances.

Since Entanglement is just Destiny for loresheets does that mean you get Cultivation from Entanglement?

>>53244554

I think so?

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Forgot to post this earlier

>>53243962
FWIW, the Street Fighter RPG, which is based on oWOD rules, is bretti gud.

>>53245076
Apparently Burn Legend, which is the SF-style hack of Exalted 2.5e, is also pretty good.

>>53245076
I was not a fan. Storyteller isn't good for fighting sim.

>>53245076
>Street Fighter RPG
Oh boy!
>oWOD rules
get fucked

>>53244554
Seems to go either way, with neither being a truly better table choice.

Still; a few mentions of cultivation say how it comes from loresheet secrets that improve your kung fu, or how you are the one spending it.

>>53245179
>>53245076
It's p. bad, but it has some pretty clever rules to move the fighting game format to tabletop, if that's something you are interested in.

There was some south-american site that had a bunch of houserules and stats for KoF characters, even.

Also got successor games in the form of Thrash and Fight!.

>>53245320
There are also a bunch of fighting game hacks for the Brazilian RPG 3D&T.

LotWfag back from holiday!

Anyone still interested in long, rambling explanations of how things work?

I'm half tempted to just open up the book and a googledoc and go through writing things out based on my understanding of them. Might be a useful resource?

>>53246445
Probably. Certainly make for a more permanent one than a string of posts.

>>53246445
do eeeeeeet

>>53246445
Yes. I want to know everything

Bump. Always wanted to give this system a shot.

>>53246445
yes

>>53228312
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamo_(film) This one?

>>53221539
God damn it, I need someone to explain to me how the hell Laughs At and Fears for non-Style things are supposed to work

>>53246457
>>53246671
>>53246983
>>53248205

I'll get working on the long writeup then. I'll post it up some time over the week.

>>53254146

Clarify/expand upon the question?

>>53219883
What exactly does Feng Shui 2 do for combat?

Central european midnnight bump.

>>53255316
So the big thing FS2 does for combat is that combat is handled with an initiative tick down. When ever you take an action, that action has an initiative cost. You lower your initiative by that much, then you act again when your next initiative comes up. This gives a more back and forth feel to combat actions.

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>>53227128
>>53227158
Oh, yeah: that's clear as glass....quality system.

>>53256581
Interesting - can you tell us more?

>>53249437
Fuck me, someone found it. Thank you.

>>53244554
Only if that entanglement is spend on Kung Fu secrets.

>>53257504

Chi cultivation calculation, while a somewhat elegant way of doing resource progression, is fucking fiddly in practice. Streamlining it somehow would help the system.

Then again, LotW in general could use some streamlining, smoothing over and clarifying.

>>53261390
Can YOU explain it, kind anon? The others have so far failed to be clear. Every time I ask specific questions, I get very very generalized answers, almost like the posters don't actually know how this shit works in the game. Thank you if you can!

>>53261430

To gain an extra point of Chi, you need cultivation equal to your current Chi total.

So, for example, having 10 Chi and 30 Cultivation, you would expend 10 Cultivation for an extra point of Chi, putting you at 11 Chi, 20 Cultivation.

Since your Chi value is still lower than your remaining Cultivation, you can spend another 11 points to gain another point of Chi.

However, mow we're at 12 Chi, 9 Cultivation. Since it's lower than our Chi, we gain nothing for now, but when we gain another 3 points of Cultivation we'll be able to go up to 13 Chi.

>>53261506
That does seem fiddly; but I don't understand what cultivation and chi are used for, so I don't know why I would want to balance them. And where does cultivation come from? What uses chi, what uses cultivation, what.....
Wait. You've done better than the rest - thank you! YOu've given us numbers, and a relation between them. But we still don't understand these terms or how they are used. Is 10 chi good? How is 13 chi better than 12 chi? Is cultivation 9 bad? How often do these 2 stats go up and down? Are they always keyed to each other, or are other factors involved at different times?
Now, you don't have to answer these - this is just an impression of the questions now floating thru my head. If you can dive in with any answers that come to mind, please do. I'll try to come up with something intelligent to ask, but so far I have little to go on.
But thanks again for your fine attempt.

>>53261717

Cultivation is gained whenever you spend either of the systems progression currencies- Destiny or Entanglement- on things directly relating to your Kung-fu or your Archetypes Secret Arts. It is naturally accumulated over time as a byproduct of standard character progression.

Chi is the systems main in combat resource, primarily used to pay for Internal Kung fu techniques. Having more Chi is a good thing because it lets you do more stuff.

>>53261777
Aha! A lotw fan who actually knows his shit and is willing to explain things clearly - brilliant!
So, cultivation is experience, not used in the adventure. Chi is THE main stat.
You describe 2 systems of experiential advancement, plus this cultivation: that seems obtuse and fiddly, too. Oi.
So, internal fu are set techniques/routines paid for with chi - like, say, it will cost 3 chi to activate my Dragon's Fist power and beat down baddie? And once i'm out of chi, i'm out of cool techniques to use?
Chi.

>>53261972
>So, internal fu are set techniques/routines paid for with chi - like, say, it will cost 3 chi to activate my Dragon's Fist power
Yes; it can be used for attack, but also defence and special effects.

>And once i'm out of chi, i'm out of cool techniques to use?
Not exactly; you regenerate ("breathe") chi every round. You can even take actions to focus on breathing more chi - but only your standard (non-elemental) chi.

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>>53261972

>Chi is spent on damage reduction(chi aura) rolls during combat
>Chi is spent on Internal Arts during combat
>Your Maximum Chi determines how hard it is to significantly wound you at four levels: Trivial, Minor, Major & 'Taken Out'
>Chi regenerates at a rate dependent on your Rank

>Cultivation is an experience pool that is created by spending experience on combat related things
>Spend Destiny/Entanglement on Loresheets(that are combat related), External or Internal KungFu or your Archtype's Secret Arts to get Cultivation
>Cultivation is spent directly on Chi via a chart hidden carefully in the book beyond the purview of mortal ken

>Make character
>Character starts with 10 chi
>step 4 gives you 20 destiny to spend on skills
>skills don't give you cultivation
>Step 7 gives you an Internal Style, these costs 10 destiny so you get 10 cultivation(the book says this)
>step 9 gives you 20 Destiny to spend on anything
>If its spent on those combat things you get cultivation = to the points spent
>potentially you can spend all 20 destiny on battle related things and end up with 20 cultivation + your free cultivation
>30 points to spend
>buy a point of elemental for 5
>buy a point of the same element for 5 * the amount of Elemental Chi you already have, aka 5
>buy another point for 5 * the amount of blah blah blah aka 10
>5+5+10 = 20
>Have 10 cultivation left over to spend on normal chi, paying 10 at 10 chi to make 10 chi into 11 chi.

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>>53261972
>Internal Styles
>Each Style has 30 points worth of techniques (1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5)
>The Destiny cost to buy the technique is also the chi required to use it in combat
>You may only purchase one of each level of Internal Style ( 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) unless your Loresheet allows you to do otherwise.

>Formless Techniques are a thing
>You can just buy any of them in any order however you feel

>Some Techniques are used during Initiative
>Some are used during combat
>Some are Attacks/Minor Actions that require a set(two or more matching dice on the lake roll) to be used.

>External Techniques are mostly passive upgrades
>some of them give you bonuses in certain situations
>Don't require any chi to use

>Chi Aura
>You're in combat
>you both roll your lake and do initiative
>You're slow and being attacked by the faster person
>You both roll your lake again
>the person attacking you describes their attack, if its better to dodge or block it(doing the opposite gives you a -5 penalty to your defense roll)
>They can use a single die on their main attack and sets on minor attacks, or just use the biggest set for their main attack
>They take this die or set and add their Strike value to it
>You then pick your defensive set of dice and add your Footwork or Block value to it
>In this case you lose by 10 or more
>You suffer a Ripple and a Ripple Roll
>You roll d10's equal to how many ripples you have, in this case 1 ripple = 1d10
>the attacker adds his damage to this number
>You can now elect to spend Chi on your Chi Aura
>Rank 4 can spend 2 chi on aura
>You roll Chi Aura & substract it from the damage
>If the remaining damage is under 0 you're unaffected entirely
>If its above 0 but less than your chi threshold you suffer a trivial condition
>if its above your Chi Threshold but lower than twice the amount its a Minor Condition
>If its more than twice the amount you suffer a Major condition
>if its more than three times the amount you're taken out of combat

>>53263727
There's a typo under the Armored Chi Threshold, it says Major twice instead of Trivial, Minor, Major

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is this wuxia

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>>53265687
Punch ghost sounds super wuxia

>>53266854
>>53265687
A friend of mine ran something in the vein of part 1/2 JoJo using LoW, about fighting vampires in Chicago, which actually worked pretty goddamn well, since Hamon is functionally chi.

>>53267021
You could do Stands too, just switch chi with Stand Power.
Maybe you're an unranked dude but your Stand has an External Style and a personalized internal style.

How would you do vampires in LotW though?
I guess theyd have to be broken enough to literally require hamon

>>53261972
>You describe 2 systems of experiential advancement, plus this cultivation: that seems obtuse and fiddly, too. Oi.
Look at it like this:
Destiny points are normal experience points. You can't buy Chi with them directly, because that's how Chi works, but you can use it for everything else.
Entanglement is a special kind of ExP: You get it only from performing Deeds (doing cool stuff in a certain way), it's awarded to you by other players or the GM/Wulin Sage, it can only be spent on Loresheets, and the others spend it for you. It basically represents your doing gaining you friend or enemies with the world around you.
Cultivation is, in my mind, less of an experience meter than a kind of Kung Fu progression track.

Basically, it's fiddly, but it all has at least some purpose.

>>53267426

I think that they all have use BUT they could have been done better.

Entanglement really needed to have zero options that improve your kung-fu. A loresheet can get you access to a technique but you still buy it with destiny to prevent 'There are some ways to spend entanglement that get cultivation'.

>>53267616

The potential for uneven progression is a problem, too. In a game I'm running I'm experimenting with three different progression currencies, although it's a bit fiddly and not ideal.

Destiny stays the same, the player can choose to spend it on anything.

Entanglement no longer provides any mechanical bonuses whatsoever. It purely buys fluff relationships and narrative advantages.

Lore (terrible generic name, I couldn't think of anything better) is gained in the same way as Entanglement, through Deeds, and is spent the same way, by the other players/GM. Lore is used to buy all the mechanical elements of loresheets, from skill specialities to Kung fu advantages and all that.

Lore is gained at a flat rate of 3 per deed, rather than the usual virtue amount, to ensure that the group remains at a consistent level rather than giving a mechanical advantage to the Force 5 guy who just keeps smashing stuff real good.

It's inelegant and I'm still looking for a better option, but up till now it's not been too bad.

>>53267745
>Lore
Its fine.
Destiny & Entanglement are also kind of just words.
Cultivation is very on the nose.

I don't see the point though. Undermines the Virtue mechanic. The retarded virtue mechanic.
At least entanglement makes sense for other people to buy it for you.
Unless everyone trades tiny martial secrets for favors

>>53268136

As a GM I take a lot of the whole 'spend it for the player' thing under advisement, I discuss it with them to make sure I'm not giving them something useless or against their character. I'll keep in mind what they're heading for, even if I might not go there directly or might give them things they wouldn't otherwise think about, even if they're still in theme and in line with their ideas.

I do like it though, a little bit of secondary progression which might not be your ideal choice but is still interesting. A skill spec or some other kind of minor bonus reflecting what you did in the last arc are both flavourful and potentially useful.

Can somebody point me to a podcast or something where this game has been played? Or at least give me a good example of what a scene looks like? I want to now how everything works out when players roll against both the environment and other characters.

>>53273137
This would be awesome. If someone has recorded play session of some kind it would be much appreciated.

>>53273137
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?576867-Legends-of-the-Wulin-Nihao-Honey-year-2/page19

Guy who made the game shows off a fight between NPCs

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>>53268208
I've pondered over the necessity for three kinds of experience pools and its made me realize how incredibly strange this game is in the context of growing as a Character.
Wuxia Houses seem to be something like secretive militia's whose weapons are their very specific Martial Capabilities- yet anyone can go learn the entirety of an External KungFu and more than enough of an Internal to be perfectly viable.

I don't know how you'd change the relationship of how those two systems work to make it so you don't need 4 entirely separate forms of experience points.

>>53282818
Destiny is just XP.
Entanglement exists so that people don't feel stupid for spending Destiny on flavor instead of mechanical strength.
Cultivation exists both to simulate the genre conceit and to keep people from dumping Destiny directly into Rank.

At least as far as I can tell.

>>53283785
Bingo.

How do I replenish elemental, corrupt & enlightened Chi?

>>53285706

That's one of those rules the book doesn't actually spell out anywhere. It's only implied by a bit on the Fire Doctrine loresheet that lets you regain an extra point of Elemental Chi.

From that, we get at least the vague idea that you regenerate one of each Elemental Chi per round, in addition to your normal Breath.

This, however, is super fucking OP and makes Elemental Chi users even better. It doesn't quite even things up, but it's less of a ludicrous advantage if you let people trade out a point of their Normal breath instead, so instead of receiving 2 Chi per turn they receive 1 Normal, 1 Elemental.

>>53286745
Choosing between 2 normals and 1 elemental each time seems like a much better idea

>>53286929

Eh, while that balanced it also makes elemental chi essentially pointless. Two Normal Chi is always better than one point of Elemental Chi because you can spend them for the exact same amount, but do so more flexibly, applying it to things like Chi Aura and so on.

It's tricky. A point of Elemental Chi is worth more than one point of Normal Chi, but it's worth less than two points.

Is there any reason to not always lean on should not be blocked/dodged, depending on what your opponent is worse at? It seems just like a free -5 to me.

>>53287535

It's always worth trying, but it's one of those 'can you fluff it appropriately' things.

>>53278603
The outcame of that fight seems a bit weird to me. So Blaze is Taken Out because she has no Chi left, but what exactly does that mean? There doesn't seem to be any consequence to losing the fight whatsoever.

>>53287703
Bump because I'm curious about this. The rule book also doesn't seem to talk a lot about Taken Out, other than that you might kill a dude with it if you want to and your attack was a physical one.

>>53288911

Taken Out is just 'you're no longer able to fight'.

It doesn't have any specific mechanical consequences like Conditions, the End of Battle Rippling Roll can provide one that's appropriate. It's more just a statement that whatever you were trying to achieve in the fight, you personally failed. The consequences of failure very much depend on the context.

>>53244778
muh hero

>>53289028
Yes but, say, my character fights some black lotus assassin out for is blood. For some reason I manage to burn all of my Chi in one round and put a bunch of conditions on the assassin while remaining absolutely unscathed. So then, I'm taken out because I'm out of Chi. What happens now?

>>53289161

Ahh, I think it might be unclear language in the example that's confusing you.

Being on 0 Chi isn't an automatic Taken Out. it just makes you way, way more vulnerable as you have no dice for Chi Aura, making any Rippling Rolls against you significantly more dangerous.

Taken Out only occurs when an attacks damage roll beats three times your Chi Threshold, or if you have a Major Weakness Condition Inflamed.

>>53289205
Ah, I see. That clears it up, it read like you are taken out automatically once you reach 0 Chi, but this is much more reasonable then.

>>53289275

Yeah. Basically, when you get a damage roll against you you can try to mitigate it with chi aura.

You can spend up to <Rank Value> in chi to get that many dice of chi aura to reduce the damage. Due to the way LOTW dice work, even the lowest roll (A single 0) will get you 10 less damage getting through so the difference between 0 dice and 1 is dramatic.

Holy shit a big LotW thread on /tg/

What the hell

>>53290720
We have them sometimes. Rarely, but that keeps them somewhat fresh.

>>53235143

I couldn't find anything about "Tian Sheng". Is that just the working title?

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>>53286745
>>53286950
The Chi Deviation section makes it spund as if you can restore elemental chi as long as your deviation is in play.
The fight example that SageGenesis, the developer, uses has both his characters regaining elemental chi each round.
Though they are both focusing on breath, its possible they're just choosing that specific elemental instead of a colorless.

For whatever reason I'm still under the impression you regen your ranks worth of chi and then 1 of each elemental per round

Also, it seems you can use elemental chi for aura.

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>>53295580
>Friend struggles to fit his silly behavioral quirk into every round and starts choking his fire chi
>Never fail to describe how cultivating metal chi has made my dick a solid piece of high density steel and how its length and girth could easily snap your blade or your mother in half

>>53219591
Have you ever eat home-fixed ramen noodles soup? Where the ramen itself is still cheap stuff bought in the grocery, but then you add to it some greens, a raw egg to make it thicker, some additional spices and maybe even slice some meat into it too...
... but deep down it will be still cheap, shit-tier instant noodles bough for a pocket change you are trying to garnish into servicable food.

And personally I find that to be the most accurate way to describe the experience with playing Legends of the Wulin - a fuckload of dressing that covers the really awful core stuff

>>53295580
>Though they are both focusing on breath, its possible they're just choosing that specific elemental instead of a colorless.
You can't focus on breath with elemental chi. Standard end of round chi regeneration does not have this restriction.

>>53296371
I thought it was the other way around.
A bunch of fluff to support the core

>>53296926
That would indicate that the core is fine and the stuff around it makes it better.
My reception is that all the fluff and support stuff is fine, but what it really does is being a fancy dressing hiding the really bad core. Hence the ramen fix comparison.

>>53297046

And what is wrong with it?

>>53297276
It's a poorly designed game with badly edited book.
The crunch is just meh. Not in sense of utter failure or being outright bad, but it's simply mediocre.
Feng Shui does this stuff better and even the extremely flaved Tianxia is better on pulling wuxia.
Then comes my disdain to most wuxia/Chinesque settings by default (being a stuck-up Sinologist and all) as I prefer to run my homebrew, but its still the blandest of all currently running game settings that try to be China.

>>53297336

>The crunch is just meh. Not in sense of utter failure or being outright bad, but it's simply mediocre.

That's not really much of an answer.

> Tianxia

...part of Pathfinder does it better?

>>53297336
>but its still the blandest of all currently running game settings that try to be China.

That is a weird-ass complaint. Considering a lot of the LOTW complaints tend to run towards 'It's so focused on being the genre it has trouble getting new players into it'

>>53297447
Maybe you didn't notice, but that argument was about setting. Not crunch. So if you are seriously trying to pull some "Ha! He said Pathfinder is better!" - tough luck.

>>53297472
Like I've said - stuck-up Sinologist. And I fail to see how being focused prevents you from being bland.

>>53297633
>Like I've said - stuck-up Sinologist. And I fail to see how being focused prevents you from being bland.

What makes it bland? I find Feng Shui very bland myself. Mostly becuase it doesn't really hold to it's Hong Kong action movie premise and ends up more 'Generic action movies with a slight Chinese theme'

>>53297633

>So if you are seriously trying to pull some "Ha! He said Pathfinder is better!" - tough luck.

No, I don't know a game called Tianxia and the only RPG stuff I can find with that name is part of the pathfinder setting.

>>53297798
Probably talking about the FATE one

>>53297798
>>53297875
They're talking about Pathfinder. They honestly believe the setting is better.

>>53297780
As opposed to "generic heroic fantasy with a strong Mysterious Mystical China vibe in it" of Legends of the Wulin? Because it has as little to do with actual wuxia or Chinese culture as does Feng Shui. That differs the two is LotW fixation on details, in an assumption that the more in-depth stuff they'll made up, the better it will be. Not noticing, that the more they made up, the further away they are from what they are supposedly making (Chinesque wuxia setting). Feng Shui "wins" that one by being open about being Western game trying to emulate the popular imagination about how Westerners percieve China. LotW is holier than thou instead, but is far away from what it supposedly tries to be.

>>53297798
Now you know:
http://www32.zippyshare.com/v/nteaAVk2/file.html
Just remember - "even the extremely flaved Tianxia is better on pulling wuxia" was the original word on it.

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>>53297899
I'm talking most definitely about FATE. But please, keep trying.

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>>53298013
>But please, keep trying.
Will do, friendo. With your lack of clarity, it looked as though your emphasis on "setting, not crunch" was trying to deflect derision for liking Pathfinder.

>>53298073
Not even him and I never heard about Tianxia in any other context (at least when it comes to RPGs) than FATE, so the hell 3.Cancer has to do with it all?

>>53297971
>Using stuff from common Wuxia
>Makes it less Wuxia

are you like the dude who made fengshui and you're mad there's not sparely made fengshui topics once every 4 months?

>>53298285
http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Tian_Xia
It's the weebland in the default Pathfinder setting.

>>53298921
>>Using stuff from common Wuxia
I've yet had to find a system/setting that actually does that, rather than pulling some Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon bullshit with hefty helping of Hero.

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>>53299361
You're saying Legends of the Wulin, which is a game where half the book delves into Chinese history and possible ways to apply it to a game, is just some masturbatory wank material for two kungfu movies?

>>53297971
So what's your opinion on Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate?

>>53299452
>Missing the point this hard
And the worst part is - it's not even your fault. It's that explaining the whole thing would take about two hours of talking, doing a pretty boring prelection about orientalism, perception of China, the "Bruce Lee effect", the differences of what constitutes as wuxia and what West world understands as wuxia and so on and forth.
But let's cut through all of that and go straight to the core: First of all, I'm not saying LotW is a masturbatory of two movies. I'm saying the it is focusing on how to emulate what you (presumly) or general non-Chinese audience can consider a wuxia, based entirely on West-acclaimed, modern take on wuxia movies (and only movies), chiefly based on works of Zhang Yimou. ALL wuxia RPG games are guilty of this. And while it's not about "lel, it's only about two movies", it's still about the very small and even more selective picks from modern (and recent, too) take on wuxia, almost entirely boiled down to "those relatively recent movies that got wide distribution in the West". So it's not even about modern wuxia as such, but modern wuxia as seen by mainstream western cinema.
To put that into some perspective, it is as if you were Japanese with no knowledge about English history and culture and tried to create a game set in Late Medieval England, only seeing Robin Hood (the one with Kevin Costner), Braveheart and King Arthur (the one with Clive Owen), look up the general aestetics and read a book about War of the Roses. I think you can imagine how it would look like in the end.
Is that at least semi-coherent? Because I'm cutting a fuckload of corners here.

>>53299742
Never had a chance to play or even read it.

>>53299970
>It's that explaining the whole thing would take about two hours of talking
Boring for you? Anons in this thread have already expressed a willingness to read.

>>53299970

And if I don't give a fuck about that and just enjoy the awesome ruleset?

>>53300069
It's 2 hours of talking, or 90 minutes if I condense to bare essence, since it's semi-related to one of the lectures I've once prepared for the Orientalism classes. But that means roughtly 20 pages of text. 4chan posts are 2k signs each.
Remember the part about being a sinologist by trade? I've got a lecture to make by 13:15. It's 9:10 right now.

Assuming the thread will last and I will have enough free time this evening, I will try to write down some summary and post it via pastebin.

>>53299970

So the setting takes common, popular and recognisable elements and blends them together into a single coherent setting?

Y'know, like every D&D setting. Or half the other fucking RPG settings that exist. If that's wrong, what the fuck would be right?

>>53300275
Not him, but judging from all what he wrote so far I guess the point is about all those games marketed as "wuxia" are in fact some sort of theme park version of what wuxia should be... I guess, because I'm not sure if that's the supposed conclusion here. I didn't even know wuxia was a literature genre before reading this thread and googling things up.

>>53299970
but why does it make the game bad?

You've never explained how the 'core' is weak.

You keep jabbering on about everything else which makes me think you're just upset and don't really have a point

>>53300355

The themepark version of x is how most RPG settings tend to work, is the thing.

>>53300393
But going by the reasoning that it distorts the sole concept of what wuxia is, that would be theme park version taken to the next level. Especially given how wast Legends of the Wulin is, but that makes it weird too. I mean what's the point of making theme park out of something you clearly put so much work into?
I don't get it.

>>53300486
Write a guide on how to do Wuxia the right way.

But do you really need to come into a LotW thread and then claim it sucks and its terrible and it doesn't do Wuxia AT ALL because Wuxia is too deep and cool and complicated for you people, also you won't explain it because ugh effort?

What am I supposed to take away from this? That you're not imaginative enough to use some a narrative based dice-rolling game to do write a wuxia narrative? At all? even slightly?

By the by, the recommended reading of the LotW books is actually really cool. It goes through various different media, from books to manhua to movies, explaining each and giving a few suggestions for things to look into, with enough depth of detail that it's clear at least some of the people behind it really loved that stuff.

>>53300529
But I'm not that anon rambling about no true scotsman. I'm this >>53300355 and >>53300486 this guy. That's literally all I've posted in this thread, trying to figure out the hell he was exactly about. Probably something about literature wuxia and how it doesn't apply to the game, but without explaining why it doesn't apply. Fuck this shit, I'm no specialist, for me the game works fine, but I'm really curious about all the stuff being explained. Just someone please tell me what timezone he is so I will know when to tune in.

>>53299970

>To put that into some perspective, it is as if you were Japanese with no knowledge about English history and culture and tried to create a game set in Late Medieval England, only seeing Robin Hood (the one with Kevin Costner), Braveheart and King Arthur (the one with Clive Owen), look up the general aestetics and read a book about War of the Roses. I think you can imagine how it would look like in the end.

Well, given that a very similar process ended up giving us Dark Souls?

>>53300679
And Dragon Quest and Legend of Zelda.

Shit, Legend of Zelda was originally a Knight Errant Story emulation.

>>53300563
You're cool with me mang.

>>53300563
Sorry, I meant to quote >>53299970

or who I thought he was

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>>53299970
>This isn't vintage Wuxia circa 1900!
>Reeee

fuck y'all niggas
I don't play them kind of ching chong games

>>53301234
Cool. Though the thing I like most is how the signature almost lines up with the guy's fingers.

Is there any source for premade characters? I'd like to run a few testscenes/fights to test the system but building a character takes for fucking ever

>>53306179
We should start a Wuxia fight club

>>53306379

There was an attempt to do that a while ago but it never went anywhere

>>53306179

There are some in the back of the book?

Other than that, you can just skip over parts that aren't directly relevant or take a lot of time if you just want to fight stuff. Pick an Internal, an External, a Weapon and your Skills, spend the destiny and boom, fully combat functional character. You lose some of the depth secret arts provides, but if you want to get a basic grasp of the system it's enough.

>>53263343
>>53263727
I'm this guy >>53261972
and I appreciate your effort - thank you! That is more like what I was after. Specific descriptions like yours are very helpful.

LotW? Yeah, I've played LotW. Let me tell you about it.

>Post in gamefinder threads for a month to get a game
>GM starting a game, get like 6 of us together
>None of us have played before, so we meet together regularly to learn the rules, create characters, etc
>Contact Sup/tg/ autists who have played and get their assistance
>After at least 3 weeks of prep time players start dropping
>By the time we start there are three of us + GM
>First session starts
>System is so complicated I forget everything and have to walked through it all by the other players
>Session doesn't last long and nothing important happens
>Get email literally the next day, my work schedule is changing and I can't attend the games at the same time
>Nobody else in group wants to switch times
>Never hear from them again

It was painful to learn, embarrassing to play, and impossible to maintain

>>53314146

Can you clarify what your issues with the system were? Most of your anecdote seems more to do with the general problems of scheduling than any trait of LotW.

Hard to learn is fair, though, given the godawful state of the core book.

>>53314750
It's been about a year since I played so I can't go into super great detail, but it was mainly issues with learning/remembering when to use ripples, floods, rivers, lakes, etc. The system is SO different from anything else that it's a serious challenge to get into it, even with extensive help

And this is coming from a lifelong gamer with a degree in Chinese history

>>53314851
Did you ever play Weapons Of The Gods?

>>53306179
The Half-Burnt Manual is a fan-made book of advice, houserules, and homebrew. It also has 11 example characters.

It's too big to post, but you can find it on google easily enough.

>>53314851

In some ways, being a lifelong gamer is something of a disadvantage. LotW changes a lot of the default assumptions of RPGs, even simple things like rolling dice before declaring actions, when virtually every other system does the reverse.

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>>53314851
Im >>53263343
>>53263727

I can write you a short synopsis to get you on your feet.
My experiences were similiar, a lot of people will pay the game some good lip service but few will sit through a combat with you so you can understand.

If you're willing to learn I will teach.

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Does this mean I can just buy techniques from other styles WITHOUT the usual cost of taking on an extra style?

>>53219591
I'd like to but i can't find a scan of the book

>>53316424

No, it just lets you break the usual limit of one technique per level on Internal styles without being restricted to a specific one.

Although honestly in my experience that rule serves no purpose other than making character creation and progression more annoying and limiting choices, since certain internal/external/faction combos are significantly more powerful than others. I tend to either waive the whole thing or make up a secret for whatever style my players want to take.

>>53316479
Why would it say "this allows you to learn additional techniques from several different styles" when having several different styles means you've had like 30 destiny to spare? it seems like ludicrously unlikely thing to refer to, and the flavor text makes it sound like you're borrowing from styles you weren't otherwise initiated in

>>53316580

To differentiate it from other loresheet secrets that give you unlimited access to the Internal techniques of a specific style.

>>53316479
The idea is that only the House/Clan/Cult/Military knows the full art, and to advance your character you're forced to tangle with a group of some sort

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Can you regenerate elemental chi round by round as you would regular chi, as in one chi per rank?
I know you can't Focus on Breath for them

>>53319070
As long as your Chi Deviation is in play you gain 1 exotic chi per round.

If you have multiple Exotic Chi types then you have multiple Chi Deviations.

>>53319130
As in you choose between gaining 1 exotic chi or 2 normal chi, or you gain 1 exotic chi in addition to the normal chi?

>>53319144
You get both.

Just by existing and breathing you get your colorless chi per round.
and by playing your deviation you get exotic chi.

So you would get both unless you were under a condition or you decided to describe your actions or yourself in the opposite of your chi deviation.

i.e. Your water chi manifests by having a big ugly fish head and a slimy scaley body full of some weird snot puss that oozes out in smeary disgusting globs.

But mid-fight you see a really hot chick and decide to turn it off to look cool- you'd drop the Chi Deviation and your Chi Regeneration.

If your Fire Chi Deviation is that you act pretty gay, then you gotta act pretty gay each Round or not regen.

It kind of favors having a transformation over a behavior, but I'm sure most DMs just handwave it unless you're acting directly against the deviation

>>53319223
>But mid-fight you see a really hot chick and decide to turn it off to look cool- you'd drop the Chi Deviation and your Chi Regeneration.
But mutations are always active.

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>>53319344
For a basic character who doesn't have any greater story context relating to their Chi Cultivation/Source I wouldn't lock them into the mutation, especially when the benefits only come into play when you require your Chi, unless they also took a Disadvantage for it.

I also wouldn't give them the benefit of starting a fight with that Chi, but it might be fun for someone(maybe a DM) to have a character hide the fact they're from the Fish-Clan by avoiding all their best moves unless they can also get an enemy alone for a minute.

>>53319223
>and by playing your deviation you get exotic chi.
But if you have a mutation, a tangible, passive, persistent manifestation of your deviation, are you regenerating 1 exotic chi per round automatically? That is what I'm curious to know

>>53319545
A person with a mutation would always get their Chi back as long as they were mutated.

The core of your regeneration is "Is my Chi Deviation a thing?"

If yes you get 1 chi back at the end of the round.

>>53319576
And that is 1 chi in addition to the 2 regular chi?? :D

that's fucking metal

..................see what i did

>>53319682
Yes, you always regen your 2 regular chi.
Unless an enemy puts a condition on you that hinders your chi regen.

>>53319682
Yeah, investing into elemental chi is usually a superior option than investing into regular chi, which wouldn't be a problem too much so if all internal styles were *only* elemental styles. As it is, picking an internal style without an element makes your Chi Threshold 1 point lower, but also means you get less Chi regen as well.

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>>53319130
>>53319223
>>53319460
>>53319748

I wonder if I even explain things with any clarity anymore.
Perhaps I should seppuku for dishonor

>>53319460
Okay but that's a houserule so you shouldn't teach people that's how it works RAW

>>53319805
I didn't.
I said I wouldn't.
I didn't say it was a rule.

We played a few sessions of this once. Fights seemed okay but took incredibly long, with countless of modifiers and activated abilities per side.
But rolls without an opponent just seemed completely pointless. They were either an auto succeed or an impossibility. And with both opposed and non opposed rolls, the roll itself did practically nothing. Hell, the River did more to add variance to the roll than rolling the dice. So, did the GM do something wrong or is that just how it is with this system?

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>>53320153
>But rolls without an opponent just seemed completely pointless. They were either an auto succeed or an impossibility.

Systems generally give you a task and either give you a succeed or fail roll without any in-between aside from description. So this wouldn't be a problem native to just LotW.
In fact LotW gives you different tiers of success for rolls, beating a task by a significant amount potentially makes it into a deed, or makes you succeed so hard that you become legendary.
Perhaps your DM just never played this up, or made any good use of it.

>Combat
I can't tell you what you did right or wrong with combat, its possible to go through a fight quickly, its possible to take hours in a fight. Depends on your group and their ability to declare attacks clearly and quickly. Some beginners have a problem with making simple descriptions of their actions- thinking they have to write up some Tolkien-esque paragraph about how their 'Seven Swimming Swans Sunder Southern Skies Swifty' kick causes flowers to grow and children to stop crying- was anyone busy fucking around on their phones instead of paying attention?

LotW certainly doesn't have any fast way of handling a large multiple combat, especially when it forces a single player to make up several defense rolls over and over. Another possible factor.
Did every fight include the entirety of the party? And if it did; was anyone specialized in anyway as someone who did a lot of damage, or did a lot of ripples?

>River did more to add variance than rolling the dice
The dice mechanic is certainly more grounded than a d20 roll, you're only going to get big bonuses of 30~50 on some insanely lucky roll. What's supposed to set you apart from your opponent is either your Kung Fu or by breaking the opponent down overtime with disrupts and disorients, robbing him of his bonuses.
Its possible your DM just ran you some straight DND roll to win combat and didn't do anything to challenge you.

Looking for Wuxia books to download - where did you guys get 'em?

In conclusion?

>>53324220
Is that supposed to be ranma?

>>53320439
No, we did use fighting styles and situational stuff, but it mostly boiled down to "Okay, I have +X and I can't do anything that you fear/I laugh at, and you have +Y, so this roll is mostly a foregone conclusion". Even more so against static rolls.
"I want to kick down door."
"You'll need a 30 for that"
"I have +10, so that's practically always going to work"

Grossly oversimplified, but I'm trying to get across how it felt.

>was anyone busy fucking around on their phones instead of paying attention?
Nah, people were invested and they didn't even overembellish their turns. It just took forever to count all possible modifiers from Internal and External Kung Fu Techniques.

>>53324220
Now that's what I call puffy nipples.

>>53326095
>I can't do anything that you fear/I laugh at
That's part of the problem. You can always do something to put yourself in an advantageous position. If you're equally matched, you have to get creative.

>>53326179
But if you can always do it, doesn't that mean it's just a dependable part of your modifiers?

>>53327096
It requires creativity on your part, describing your attack in such a way that would evoke the bonus

>>53327096
>>53327399

LotW has a lot of things like this. Small, contextual modifiers that require a bit of creative effort to make use of at times. Laughs/Fears, Chi Conditions, Skill Specialities, even Best Dodged/Blocked in combat.

It gets even more complicated if your opponent knows about your contextual modifiers, and takes their actions with the intent of denying you yours. It's part of the rather fascinating interplay in LotW of fluff and mechanics.

>>53327454
>It's part of the rather fascinating interplay in LotW of fluff and mechanics.
This is also known as 'gaming the system', and it is a bad thing...

>>53316236
Fire away!

>>53329060

Why? I feel like that's a lingering D&Dism that doesn't really apply in LotW. The idea that 'gaming the system' is an innately bad thing which involves exploiting the rules in unintuitive ways.

LotW isn't perfect, but at least in this example its perfectly intuitive- Your character leveraging their strengths and advantages to try and achieve victory. The exact same logic applies both fluffwise and mechanical. Why wouldn't your PC do everything they could to get an advantage?

>>53329060
>and it is a bad thing
How so? It produces exactly the kind of results intended by the system.

>>53329144
>>53329153
Sorry, anon: cheating is cheating. It's like using bennies or whatever else: it's a way to manipulate the action FROM OUTSIDE THE ACTION i.e. from a META perspective. It takes you out-of-character and places you firmly in your place as PLAYER. You are no longer immersed in your character's mind and motivations: you are playing your character not AS the character, but to WIN. And in real life, we don't play to win: we play according to our strengths and weaknesses, SUBJECT to those strengths and weaknesses, NOT objectively using them to 'win'. (Much as we would like to, we just can't use ourselves objectively like that; why should an rpg encourage players to play in such an unnatural fashion? It makes no sense.)

tl;dr - it doesn't encourage immersion; it encourages waac, and waac is bad for rpg's

>>53329306

Ahh, so you're one of those kind of people.

Newsflash- Your preference for how RPG's should be is not actually fact. It's an opinion you're welcome to, but RPG's not aligning with that does not make them bad games, it just makes them outside your preference.

>>53329306
Stuff like this always makes me wonder whether it's just unoriginal shitposting or the poster is genuinely that... limited.

>>53219591
Alright, now for the real questions
What's the erp scene like?

>>53329346
>ad hominem
>strawman
Yeah, that's what I thought. You lotwfags get real buttflustered when someone calls you out on your shit. None of you actually play the game raw; you just houserule all the garbage you don't understand, then try to befuddle anyone who'll listen with vague talk and nonsense.
Seriously: a player should be concerned exclusively with their character's motivations and actions; a player should NEVER be thinking about the game's mechanics and structure. The mechanics of a game are there to support the character action, not to be the focus of the game. The focus of a roleplaying game is the role being played.

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>>53329642
More ad hominem fallaciousness, anon? Weak argument from a weak-minded tool.
Surely you can do better than bait like a twelve year old child.....

>>53329825
Thanks for answering my question, I guess.

>>53329741

>a player should NEVER be thinking about the game's mechanics and structure.

You cannot justify this assertion.

You prefer to play this way, and that is fine. Other people prefer to play different ways, and that is also fine.

>>53329741
>None of you actually play the game
You almost got there, mate. Overshooting the mark.

>Seriously: a player should be concerned exclusively with their character's motivations and actions; a player should NEVER be thinking about the game's mechanics and structure.
Believe it or not; fact is you can do both.

Look at them failing to counter one simple argument - all they do is flail around screeching autisticly. Without an effective counter-argument, my statement stands unopposed:
Legends of the Wulin is shit because it forces players out of character/story-immersion in order to 'game' the system for advantage. Game. Set. Match.

>>53329643
Not large enough.

>>53330212

You haven't made an argument. You've made an assertion without any support or justification. There isn't anything to argue against.

>>53329643
>>53330273

I actually run a LotW ERP and it's pretty fun. Chi Conditions work great for various sexy things, like getting someone so flustered in a fight they can barely think, or giving someone a supernatural curse of constantly ending up in lewd situations.

>>53330212
It supports Author and Director Stances over Actor Stance. Wow. What a big deal.

If this is supposed to be a desperate cry for help, your efforts would be better spent trying to grab the attention of friends and family, rather than strangers online who only give a fuck about you as long as you give them reason to feel superior to you. Which you're doing a great job of so far, btw.

>>53330212
The initial problem with your overly buzz-worded and absolute (yet not specifically backed by any examples) assertion is that a character using their strengths to attempt to counter another's is only subjectively immersion breaking, not objectively immersion breaking.

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>trying this hard without saying anything to back up their assertions
Fail. Try again - you'll get there eventually.

>>53329306

...wait...so trying to fight in a situation where you know, in character, the other guy is weak or you are strong is metagaming? As that's what Laughs/Fears is all about. Going 'This guy is shit at dealing with people he can't infight with' and keeping him at a distance with your spear for example.

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Fucking hide it you idiots.

>>53330804
It's past bump limit already; what are you trying to achieve beyond adding to the # of posts to ignore/hide?

>>53331010
Teaching. They can learn and do it better next time something like this happens.

>>53331066
That assumes a returning cadre of feeders.

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>>53329306
>we play according to our strengths and weaknesses, SUBJECT to those strengths and weaknesses

Okay good.
Now remember that LotW is a narrative building game.
Play within the confines of your character, try and reason how your characters strategy would change against a foe who can hard counter your initial approach - but thinking the rules of the game make you a static 1995 rpg character?
Why even bother?

>>53332012

What the fuck are you even talking about?

>>53332040
Git gud scrub