Guild Ball General

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Shameless bump since they apparently just made the announcement of the Blacksmith's Guild following the release of the Farmer's Guild this summer. It'll probably release in the fall

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First off we've got the Master Blacksmith Anvil with some respectable early momentous plays and a whopping 3 ARM with Tough Hide. Even with 2+ defense he's going to be a wall

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and then we've got the Apprentice Sledge with a pretty damn good kick for a non-striker, even if you aren't going for the long bomb 3/6" isn't bad. That momentous 7 damage is fucking tasty, but without knowing his TAC I'm assuming you're either going to need a Charge, Tutelage from Anvil, or both to hit it reliably

Could someone confirm that the kickoff models are of worse quality than the upcoming plastics?

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Take my goddamn money

>>53219119
that nigga looks dope as fuck. I'm a little confused though because I thought Anvil was going to be a Captain but based on his card he's just a regular player.

maybe Captains will be Masters that can effect any Apprentice and not require a specific pairing like Anvil and Sledge?

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>>53219082
They are, I fondled the farmers at Vengance, they're real good

>>53219082
>>53219119

If this is how the Farmer's Guild and other upcoming plastics will look, I think I'm going to be cool with it

>>53219155
Apparently the Smiths are from a ton of different areas, and believe other Smith's are retards, and their way is best, I'd be surprised if they didn't only work with their same Nationality

>>53219162
So I would be better of buying masons separately?

Looks pretty sweet and kind of following along with the Reaper/Planter theme of the Farmer's Guild.

Speaking of does anyone have the S3 rule book scans for the new players? I didn't have a chance to save them from the last thread

>>53219581
If you want higher quality models. I heard rumor that they might eventually switch entirely over to plastic, in which case I might end up rebuying some teams I already have.

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>>53218073
>What are you playing?
Skatha hunters. Trying desperately to find something she can do that Theron doesn't already do better. Her tac 5 sucks hard for what she wants to do. Her ranged AoE snare is awesome though and being able to trigger it off the playbook is money. Snowball has been useful though it sucks dick when it misses. I wish the kick for the snowball didn't require influence. Her legendary is absolute dogshit as well unless your opponent literally walks his players into such a position where its actually useful beyond a single goal kick.

Snow's feral instincts should be an aura otherwise it's hardly worth it without telegraphing more than hunters already do. Oooh ball is adorable and can't help but giggle like massive faggot when it actually works.

vHearne has been the tits with that mom KD on 2 and tackle. Miss his forest teleports, but his literal "teleports behind you..." trait has been useful if a bit situational.

Minx helps set up the new hunters with her snares on hits and dodging shenanigans.

Ulfr has yet to be useful to me save for putting out a threat that my opponents tend to pool a good amount of resources into deleting.

Lately, I've been running Seenah and Minx with the 4 new hunters to mild success. Them being pretty self sufficient influence wise helps considering Skatha, Ulfr, and Hearne all usually want full stacks to do serious work.

What are you painting?
hunters and masons. I'm pretty terrible.

How do you feel about the new tournament rules?
Don't really care as I've been running single captain teams.

>>53218996
>master
>apprentice
Why do I feel like they're gonna have a synergy similar to farmers?

>>53218073
>Tried last night to no avail.
That was a hint.

>>53219890
>someone actually prefers Theron to Skatha

You're a rare breed anon. And yeah based off the description it seems that they are going to follow the same pairing theme with some differences. Reapers and Planters always get along. Sledge is only at his best if you also happen to be playing Anvil, but on the plus side Anvil's sentinel seems to benefit any apprentice. So I'm guessing their play style is going to be a lot more restrictive in that regard

I'm really curious if their Mascots will follow that same trend somehow since Buckwheat and Peck are a Reaper and Planter respectively

>>53220024
A lot of the new hunters compliment Theron rather well, including vhearne. Him and ulfr give them more ball scoring potential. Theron's heroic is miles better than Skatha's legendary and his forest terrain is better than her fast ground as often times, your opponent will try to benefit from it. plus vhearne treats it as fast ground anyway. His snares on hit make him awesome and pinned can ruin a player if used correctly. He wants to be in the scrum and once I got out of the trap of using his CP's every turn, I started to fare much better with him.

Still trying to figure out Skatha though. Maybe I'm just trying to do too much with her.

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>>53219890
>what are you painting

Sorry for the phone posting but I'm working on a bunch of shit atm. Got most of my Brewers done, enough to field a team. Working on Quaff right now and then gonna start on Mash. I'll post some better shit when I get home

The other night I got a wild hair up my ass and decided to paint the Easter egg I got when I got Easter Fangtooth and the Union box set

>>53219890
What's funny is that my experience has been the exact opposite. After about four dozen games with Theron switching over to Skatha has been an incredible boon; she just brings so much more to the team than Theron does it isn't even funny.

She's not a ball captain. People keep thinking she's a ball captain -- that's not her primary role. She's a support captain, and she brings so much more support than Theron ever did. Threat range extensions for days, that's her real strength. Jaecar engages turn one, every game now. Minx charges turn one, every game. If you don't fuck it up this guarantees initiative in turn 2 which you use to either score a goal with Skatha first activation or have Jaecar finish off their captain / key model / gut and string models with lots of influence / so on and so forth. She just enables this extremely dominant top of turn 2 play that Theron can't even compete with.

Additionally she will score a goal at one point. She probably won't score two, usually if I score a second goal with her it's Jaecar doing the punting, but taking the hunters from an 0-6 team to a 1-4 team that is hungry and capable to go 2-2 if your opponent slips up is one hell of a thing. Really the biggest problem with Theron is that his team has no goal pressure; with Skatha not only do you have to worry about your models getting deleted from the pitch you also have to worry about goals and that ramps the pressure up significantly.

Ulfr is garbage, though, and Snow doesn't impress me much. I'm not a big fan of either of them. Veteran Hearne is solid, not amazing but solid; he's not a ball player either, he's a setup and defensive player, although he has a mean 9 damage activation (momentous KD, Last Light himself to Skewer the target, momentous 3, momentous 3 -- net 9 damage, KD and snare on the target, 1 net momentum, for 3 influence).

I don't see myself ever playing Theron again to be honest. At least not until season 4.

>>53219119
>>53219162
I'm not a big fan of how their lore calls their gear masterworks and yet their models are wielding what looks like Neolithic hammered ore tools. They look like primitives who just discovered that some rocks are harder than others, not master craftsmen.

>>53220895
I find Jaecar getting farmed if I snowball him up to get some hits in. I find its real strength though is to re position models pushed around or to get them in a better spot to engage enemy models that have dodged away. I have used it on minx turn 1 though. Pretty sweet. I may try subbing jaecar in instead of ulfr and see how it goes. He just keeps dying on me with little to offer except a distraction.

Where do you normally keep her on the field anyway? I'd love some tips. Positioning, when in the turn to use her, etc.

>>53220895
Also vhearne threatens goals out of nowhere. With Minx and Skatha, I tend to keep most models snared and keep him in the center and close to rough ground if possible. I don't like to do it early, but I've closed out at least one game with him doing that.

>>53221034
Well you have to be smart about it, you can't just run Jaecar forward or else yes he'll get deleted.

Turn 1 I have her go middle of the pack, ideally after my opponent has moved a model far enough forward for Jaecar to reach after an extension. From there I'll give Minx and Jaecar the fast ground and the other the snowball, whoever needs which, and I suppose if my opponent is being extremely cautious you can give them both to Jaecar at which point his 16" threat range is enough to reach their deployment line. I'll typically end her turn near the middle of the pitch, roughly halfway between your deployment line and the center line.

Turn 2 you either open with Skatha doing a goal drive or with Jaecar doing Jaecar things. Your call as to which. I usually do a goal run in turn 2 with her, even if it's not first activation.

Also, her legendary is amazing when playing against teams that lack 2" melee. If you can hit 3-4 models with it you threaten to negate their entire turn, it's hilarious. Basically, keep in mind that counter-attacks can consume the frost token too. Hunters already have good counterattacks, so if we get to actually use them (e.g. not up against a team with reams of 2" melee) then shenanigans are abound on Skatha's legendary turn.

As for Jaecar dying on you, that's just a thing you have to learn to manage. Most of my games Jaecar never even gets attacked; he's too valuable of a piece to even risk getting engaged by an enemy beater. You commit him only when it's safe and then get him the fuck out of dodge immediately -- and that's what makes Skatha so much better for him than Theron because her threat range extensions make that so much more viable.

>>53221069
I am extremely suspicious of V.Hearne ever scoring a goal, sorry man but I just do not see it at all. If it happens it's because your opponent delivered it to you; the guy just can't do enough on his activation to really make it happen. 3 influence is a bitch.

>>53221228
Thanks I'll try doing those things next game I play.

>I am extremely suspicious of V.Hearne ever scoring a goal, sorry man but I just do not see it at all.
The opportunity was there and I took it. Unlikely to happen regularly though.

>>53221447
No problem man.

Fun trick with Jaecar, if you know you aren't going to do a goal drive at the top of turn 2 then just leave Jaecar engaged at the end of turn 1 -- don't use Back to the Shadows at all, really. Top of turn 2, activate Jaecar first thing again, have him kill his target, get a double dodge on the last hit, jog 7", then Back to the Shadows another 4". That's 13" of get the hell of out dodge right there, plenty to bury him safely behind your team to do something in turn 3.

It's even funnier if he tackles the ball off that target and then hides behind their goal post with it.

>>53221017
I dig the wrought iron type of look. I think they're just trying to visually differentiate them from the Masons who are also all wearing armor

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>>53220474
I'm back. Here's my Brewer's Guild team. This was pre-clear coating them. Actually just got done with it a few minutes ago. Decided to do it since it's such a nice day out finally. Going to add some static grass once they've dried a few hours. Gonna go work on Quaff now

Anyobody else got pictures of their teams?

>blacksmith guild
>not based on create weapons on the middle of the field for mid-late game effectiveness
>Solthecians still belong to the Union instead of being their own thing.

>>53223336
I think that would make them too much like the Farmer's Guild and their harvest markers, when they're already copying their "two types of players that help each other" thing. I'm kind of hoping that some of them have ways to buff each others armor or weaken opponents armor.

I'm sort of hoping that the Church becomes it's own thing down the road. Maybe Grace and Benediction can be cross-guild models like Compound, or maybe the Church can be a second Union-like Guild that can play as their own team or loan out players to other teams. they already seem to have a logo for them with that big Solthecian sun symbol.

>>53223416
when I was saying creating weapons I was thinking more in the lines of creating hammers (- armor), spears (+ melee), disposable daggers, maybe greaves so you can be more resistant to knockdown or who knows.

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>>53223326
>Anyobody else got pictures of their teams?
Here's my red hunters. Need to get working on my Winter Moon hunters to add them to the shot.

>>53223603
Looks pretty good anon. I dig the face paint on Seenah.

Out of curiosity, I haven't seen the Winter's Moon figures in person. Does Skatha come with a snowball marker like the traps everyone else gets? I'm assuming she does, otherwise I was going to make one out of greenstuff and cover it in basing snow

>>53223652
Skatha, annoyingly, does not come with a snowball marker. Thankfully, however, it really does not matter if she does or not unless you're using it to trigger Oooh Ball. I've found that I don't even bother to put a spare ball on the pitch when I use her now because it just doesn't matter. Either you get the pass and it's on someone else and doesn't matter or you miss and it scatters off in the distance and who cares.

>>53223769
fair enough. I just like making tokens and shit anyhow. Speaking of I need to hit up Hobby Lobby and find some shit to make harvest markers with

how do I get a hat as sweet like Harry The Hat?

>>53224412
you have to earn one

>>53224540
how do I earn one?

anyone had any experience with the token sets from Muse on Minis? I was thinking of picking up a set for my two teams. The price seems pretty good and I like the neoprene AoE markers, I'm just curious how others feel about them. Also they seem to come with influence tokens based on the pictures but it doesn't specify in the list of whats included or say how many you get

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anyone have the rest of the Farmer's Guild stuff? Posting Windle for now. This dude looks fun

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Seems like he has potential for big damage with the right set up

>>53225807
>>53225824

http://guild-ball.wikia.com/wiki/Farmers

Has all the farmers cards, as well as the harvest marker rules.

Also, can confirm that if you can set him up, Windle murders the hell out of things. Be prepared to abuse Millstone's 2" push on friendlies and Stop Slacking though, because he is slow as hell otherwise.

>>53226623
solid, i didn't think the wiki had been updated. And they have the actual character cards and not just scans... did Steamforged release them somewhere? I'm surprised my app hasn't added them yet at least so people can play with proxies

>>53226687

No idea where the wiki got them, I haven't seen them posted anywhere else.

If you're on android, try GB Scrum, I know it's added them recently.

>>53226687
I can verify that GB Scrum for Android has the Farmers in it. GB Manager (also Android) appears to have been abandoned, though, not even having the March releases added in yet.

>>53226722
>>53226729
I've got an iPhone and use GBKeeper. They're usually pretty damn quick with an update. When they did that soft update on some card ability clarification and some alterations to a few players home country, they had it up later that day.

I'm surprised they haven't thrown it on, but maybe the guy/guys that run the app aren't aware the cards are online if they're just on the wiki mysteriously

>>53226623
>http://guild-ball.wikia.com/wiki/Farmers
They look like pure fun. I can't fucking wait.

Blacksmiths. yay or nay?

After the big fucking mess with the translation of dark souls the board game. I don't think I want steamforged to translate GB into Spanish anymore...

>>53228881
Only if their mascot is a giant crab named Tongs.

>>53228881
Basicly masons - no difference between two teams - failed attempt

>>53219162
The overall design isn't bad, but the pose is so damn boring. Switching to plastic was a mistake.

>>53231977
How would you differentiate Masons film Blacksmiths gameplay wise?

>>53232016
Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean with "boring"?

Vengeance 2017 Q&A session:
[twitch URL] /videos/142980536

Some takeaways:
- Farmers in August
- Blacksmith prerelease at GenCON, retail release at SteamCON
- Farmers / Blacksmith 6-man starter pack comes with a plastic goal and a plastic terrain piece (and a ball) for $50 USD.
- Lucky is confirmed for dual guild masons/brewers player but with a weird promotional distribution platform. Not sure if he'll be tournament legal given that?

>>53234056
- Season 4 launch has been pushed to late 2018 (specifically SteamCON 2018). Releases for season 3 will continue to be staggered throughout 2018.

>>53232194
There is no sense of movement, and his arms and weapon are sculpted onto his chest. It's like a old metal figure where everything is cast as one piece.

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You guys ready for another solid year of Alchemist domination?

>>53234226
Meant for
>>53233705

>>53236144
nah, I fully expect to see a top8 of 6 alchemists during worlds in chicago. at which point they'll prolly give us a revamp during xmas.

Shame they fucked up drafting so much.

Just got back from vengeance. Blacksmiths look great on detail, been relay impressed with how they have treated the plastics so far.

>>53238419
Did they say if the models on display were production models or were they pre-release resins?

>>53238527
I was told they where the plastic ones. But could be wrong.

>>53234226
>>53236374
>There is no sense of movement,
any good example of the contrary?
sorry for the delay.

>>53234056
>Lucky is some kind of promo piece

that sounds retarded. hopefully they mean he will be released at a con or something and then a wide distribution after? The LE models are one thing but it would be stupid to make promo/non-tournament legal pieces. Who would want to deal with restricted access to a piece they couldn't even use in a tourney?

Also Brewer's is my favorite Guild and he looks cool so I'd be kinda pissed if it was a big ordeal to get him

>>53231977
>this is based off of two models that we don't even know everything about

The only comparisons I would make is that they have

-Models that play off other specific models (Brewer's also do this)
-Anvil has early Momentous plays
-they wear armor

if there's more i'd love to hear it

>>53240708
Yeah I don't really understand what is going on with Lucky either. They did not rule out a retail release, but they specifically stated that it would be a convention model and would also be distributed via organized play packs.

Similarly they also brought up Skulk, who apparently is going to be a real thing which will be sold this upcoming SteamCON. An actual release and addition to the Union team, or just some random non-tournament legal figure with an odd history? Fucked if I know.

>>53241140
I've been waiting for Skulk since I love my Union team, but I really think that's a counter intuitive strategy that I hope they reconsider.

The game only has a limited number of available players per team and restricting some as super exclusive figures is a pretty shitty move. Realistically most people would probably just proxy him if they really want to play him, but it's still pretty shitty

So if I'm reading it right, if you're playing a team with both Grace and Benediction, could you bounce Quick Foot or Healing Light halfway across the pitch?

>Grace activates one of her plays
>use Impart Faith to make a model 6" away the origin Model
>Benediction standing within 6" from that model
>use Impart Wisdom to make Benediction the origin model
>activate the play from Benediction

>>53242504
That would not work, no. Benediction's Impart Wisdom triggers when a model in the aura "makes a character play", not when a model in the aura "is the origin model of a character play". These two are different concepts. The origin model is just for measuring distance; Grace would still be the model making the character play.

>>53242630
Ah yeah you're right. That's a bummer, but I still dig the way these two can support a Union team. Even without that ability, being able to fire a healing AoE across the pitch or get a MOV boost up to your Striker is pretty sweet, and Benediction can be a launching pad for whatever you want in addition to being a 4 ARM wall with a free counter attack

da bump. don't die on me yet.

Quick, what's the last match you played and how did you do?

>>53250301
Brewers vs Fisherman

Holy fuck I hate that matchup. Best bet is to get the ball to your back line and force the Fishermen up into a knockdown killbox where Hooper and Pintpot can beat the absolute piss out of them

>>53219155
there are masters and apprentices, no captains or mascots. You get your captain in a unique way.

>>53255911
>no mascots

that would suck. Half the fun of Guild Ball is slapping the shit out of someone with a pissed off baboon

>>53250301
First 2 matchs ever in Guid Ball.

Took my Masons against Union and then Alchemists.

Got my shit kicked in. Slowly learning the ropes.

>>53256159
thendont play Smiths. I am.leaker from before, proved with hag info

>>53256304
At this point I am fairly certain this leaker is Dan Cunningham. Can't type for shit, is a known playtester, and is a belligerent dumb blighter so likelihood of being on 4chan is high.

Thoughts of S3 so far?
what do you think of GB so far in its short life? do you think SteamForged will fuck it somehow?

>>53256583
I feel like season 3 was balanced with rookies in mind, but then they canceled rookies due to the obvious problems they invoke. The nerf to mascot killing in particular only makes any sense in the context of having a second 1 VP model on the pitch to take out.

As a direct result of rookies getting canceled despite the global changes being balanced around them we end up with an overly kick heavy metagame with Alchs, Fish and Engineers dominating. Nobody should be surprised, really.

SFG aren't perfect, just look at Hunters or Dark Souls, but it does seem like this past year has been more misses than hits. Hopefully they turn it around.

>>53256815
I think they'll learn from it going forward into S4. Even the non-kick heavy teams are still decent, they just have a more uphill battle.

By the way, what was the plan for rookies anyhow? I heard they were a "thing" but did anything about them ever get revealed other than they might exist? I think the S3 rulebook gave out Amber and Tombstone as two "rookie" players we haven't seen yet.

>>53257268
They just confirmed at Vengeance that rookies got the axe. Rather, they said that rookies are "on ice permanently", not ruling out that they might revisit them later but at the moment there are no plans to continue to develop them. It turns out that adding a 7th model to the pitch significantly after the game was first developed was a nightmare to balance -- who knew.

The initial pitch for them was to have them follow players around and give them buffs in some manner. Sounded gimmicky and shitty to me, personally, so I'm not unhappy about them getting axed, it's just a shame about beatdown teams being adversely affected like they are.

>>53257313
I could see how that would fuck balance royally. Even from a gameplay perspective I don't know why rookies tagging along would make sense. Are players like Boiler, Chisel, or Bushel not "rookies." They're all relatively new to the game as of their lore.

It would make more sense just to make more standard players

>>53256815
What are you on about? Nothing was changed for rookies, or we would of seen them. whether or not the global changes have effected the meta it has nothing to do with rookies being canceled.

>>53258637
Making mascots grant 1 VP on a takeout makes absolutely no sense at all except in the context of adding another type of model that also grants an odd number of VPs. All it does is make mascots functionally invulnerable because there is no reason to take them out any more.

Honestly the mascot change was the dumbest thing season 3 brought. I never see people attack mascots any more except when that model would be wasting influence. There is no reason to in the current setup. But there would be if rookies existed.

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>>53218073
Are Butchers or The Union more competitive?

Which team has a higher kill tally?

The description of The Union has them listed as very flimsy. Would the First Light of Solthecius make them anymore sturdy?

Brand new and looking into getting a team.

>>53258756
It means two things. Mascots can now be far more aggressive where before it was far too risky to ever put one in combat and why would you want to put a shit player in when you know your going to loose 2 vp for it. and second it means you are far more likely to try for 4 takes out 1 goal. mean you have to use the game resources, aka the ball, keeping it in play rather then kicking it in a corner and beating each other to death for 2 hours. its to open design space and to get players playing the game it was intended.

>>53258792
both are pretty competitive. butcher will 100% have higher kill tally but its not going to be by much. union arnt that flimsy if at all, butcher are definitely more glass cannon.

>>53258792
>Are Butchers or The Union more competitive?
They're both very evenly balanced right now. Neither team is OP, and they're both swinging dead average in tournaments.

>Which team has a higher kill tally?
Yes.

I mean, it's hard to really compare the two. V. Rage can be played as killy as the Butchers and there are people who claim that that build is the most offensively aggressive build in the game -- but at the same time V. Rage can be played as a two goal two takeout team and both Brisket and Blackheart are often played as a three goal team whereas even the balliest Butchers team is only 2-2.

Play Union if you want to have more strategic options, and play Butchers if you want more flavors of murder.

>The description of The Union has them listed as very flimsy. Would the First Light of Solthecius make them anymore sturdy?
The Union aren't flimsy. I wouldn't call them tanky either (although they do have some tanky models and as you note Benediction is extremely tanky) but they definitely aren't flimsy. The Butchers on the other hand are in fact very flimsy.

>>53258887
Keep astroturfing all you want but there's no way you can convince me it wasn't a shit move for both gameplay and balance reasons. Having a model on the pitch that has no reason to be taken out is fucking retarded. Right now you can just throw your mascot at your opponent and not care -- it literally does not matter at all if they attack it. Invincible mascots is stupid and degenerate and should be axed in season 4.

Your whole comment about having to score a goal just further undermines how little you understand about the game's balance as well. Nobody went 6 takeouts in season 2. (Well, nobody except Hunters but that's a different problem.) Every beater team went 4 takeouts and then a goal. The problem is that now not even that is viable in competitive and it is a direct result of the mascot change. You just cannot get the four takeouts in time; there's not enough models on the pitch. It takes too long. Beatdown was already the 'control' in Guild Ball, it was already oriented towards the long game, but season 3 came in and made that game significantly longer while also making it even easier to score goals.

As it stands the only viable paths to victory in competitive Guild Ball are 2-2 and 3-0. And that's bad.

>>53259064
My point was it still has nothing to do with rookies. Highest ranked butcher player at vengeance won 3 games 4-1 and 1 game 6-0. I agree with you its much easier to win with goals at the moment. its just not the only path in competitive play.

>>53259479
And my point is that it does in fact have to do with rookies. You're just sticking your head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge my argument at all.

Mascots being worth 1 VP makes absolutely no sense in a game where every other source of VP is even and you need an even amount of VPs to win. It only makes any sense in the context of another model also being worth 1 VP to take out. Otherwise mascots should have been worth 0 VP -- because that's identical to the situation it is right now.

>>53259537
Why change a game around an asset you don't plan on using? Dose that make abilities that increase takes out by 1 VP pointless to the game then? what about Briskets ability to make goals worth 5 VP? I understand your point of view it just seems a jump in conclusions.

>>53259631
>Why change a game around an asset you don't plan on using?
Because at the time they were going to use it. They only recently changed their mind on that frontier. When they were testing the season 3 changes rookies were in.

>Dose that make abilities that increase takes out by 1 VP pointless to the game then? what about Briskets ability to make goals worth 5 VP?
They are, actually, yes. That is people's experience. The most viable one is Seenah's, and that is still a hell of a stretch. The least viable is Brisket's, which might as well not even be on her card it's so bad.

>>53259537
>being worth 1 vp makes no sense

It's because they have low health and can get taken out relatively easily. If they were still worth two points no one would want to use them for anything because they'd get dogpiled and slaughtered instantly. Even the most combat focused mascots are pretty easy to take down.

>>53260370
So, let me see if I get this right: it's acceptable for something to be functionally invulnerable... because they have low health.

Can you at least see how utterly stupid your argument is? How much health mascots have does not matter because there's no reason to kill them any more, and that's the problem.

When I'm playing Guild Ball and I see my opponents attacking my mascot I am happy. Go on ahead, it's a waste of time. You accomplish nothing by doing it. Mascots don't do hardly anything, most of them at least, and yet it still takes 3-4 influence to kill one. That's 3-4 influence gone, never to be seen again, accomplishing nothing. And that's degenerate and counter intuitive; it's a newbie trap.

When it comes down to it, either Steamforged made the change in anticipation for rookies, in which case having two models on the pitch that are worth 1 VP each suddenly makes both of them worth killing, or Steamforged went full retard with the change and it needs to be reverted because it's fucking the game balance over hard. Right now, regardless of the initial intent, the result is the latter scenario.

>>53260546
what would you propose doing instead then?

Being worth 2 points makes mascots too vulnerable because they're worth as much as a player with 2-3x as many health boxes, and theyd have an even bigger target on their head coming back with the 3-5 health they normally get.

>>53260853
I support the notion that mascots in s3 should be more resilient than mascots were in s2. Gaining a sponge was definitely a good thing. But going down to 1 VP was too far because it removes all incentive to actually take mascots out. So instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater like they did, they should've just tweaked the already existing knobs the game has -- namely health.

So in short, instead of dropping to 1 VP, gaining an icy sponge, and losing health (don't forget that that happened, mascots used to have more health in s2 and it is to that which I compare them to), they should've just gained a sponge and gained some health. Leave them a little squishier than players if only to reinforce that they are mascots and not people, but not by a huge margin. Mascots get to do more than just guard the goalpost, and beatdown teams don't have their target field enormously decreased with no upside given to them.

File: grace&benny.jpg (180KB, 1200x900px) Image search: [Google]

180KB, 1200x900px

These new models look fucking sweet

Church team fucking when

>>53260957
>>53260546
>>53259537
>>53259064
>>53258756

I see where you're coming from, but I don't see why it's such a big hangup. Mascots are worth 1 VP so it makes them less of a valuable target, making them coaches more willing to throw them into a scrum and actually be involved with the game. Yes, this makes it so you need two Mascot KOs to equal a single player KO, but it keeps the game from turning into a Mascot farm (and arguably could still be useful in the case of a time running out I guess). But you're opponent is less incentivized to just slaughter them for an easy 2VP, and they can still benefit from needling them down with AoE plays when they do get into the thick of it.

Also, I'm really glad they ended up canning Rookies. Adding a 7th player would drag out turns even longer. God help you if you were playing a Morts team with Brainpan & Memory and Avarisse & Greede. From the sound of it, it would have just been another Mascot-type squishy support player and people would still be more interested in going for the 2VP KOs then wasting influence on a nuisance