MTG: Legacy General

>>53213351
Shit I forgot to make an editon: edition

>>53213380
We can call it "slow Saturdays" edition.

How did everyone do at FNM last night?

File: 1481762747532.jpg (36KB, 450x800px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 450x800px

Miracle players still salty edition

do i understand banding correctly? could i block a 10/10 creature with 10 creatures that have banding, assign all of the damage to just one of them, and only that one creature and the 10/10 would be sent to the graveyard?

>>53216785
I was this close to burning mine in a fit of autistic rage. Ended up just putting them in my bulk box in the futile hope they unban it one day.

top 3 decks in the new meta

>>53218008
elves, storm, grixis delver

>>53217105
also

>Any creatures with banding, and up to one without, can attack in a band.
>and up to one without

is that one per combat phase, one per band, or one per creature with banding?

>>53214492

Tried Desert Power out, but the deck gave me some seriously bad draws. I tried to get too cute with the manabase and use Crop Rotation, I'm going to rework the deck to be more of a straight-up Blue/Black Reanimator with a potential combo finish.

>>53218162
One per band.

>>53218008
Delver, Storm, Eldrazi

>>53218008
Grixis delver, bug delver, and ur delver

Im not 100% sure how crewing works but couldnt phyrexian dreadnought be used with consulate dreadnought quite well? I have alot of cards for good old stiflenought and decided to try something out.

>>53221449
just slam all the 2 card phyrexian dreadnought combos you can into the deck. Stifle/nought, phase/nought, nought/nought. throw in some enlightened tutors, a stoneforge package, and some extra disruption and you got yourself a stew.

>>53221449
if you had 2 consulate dreadnoughts and one of the phyrexian variety, could you use the phynought to crew one, which you'd then use to crew the other, and then sac them both to keep the phynought?

>>53222103
Yep.

This format is terrible, between ridiculous prices for dual lands and just about every staple, russian roulette matchups with glass cannon combo decks like Reanimator, Show and Tell, and Elves that have zero interaction to them. Miracles may have been cancer but at least it kept worse cancer in check. Now this formats just fast combo opening hand bullshit like Yu Gi Oh. Good luck playing fair magic when your opponent slams a T1 Sire of Insanity and no FoW is not an answer, its a max 4 of in your deck and you arent always going to have it in your opener.
>inb4 t. salty ex Miracles player

>>53223518
Probably just going to sell my duals at this point. They ban every piece that fair decks can use like Top but allow fast combo to keep all their tools and consistently turn 2 you. T1 Sire may not be a "win" but it basically is if you dont immediately have an answer and the only answer is Force of Will.

>>53223518
Nice bait my friend, I'm sure you'll garner a few more replies :)

>>53223667
>things I dont like are bait
Unfair combo decks are cancer
Sorry that losing turn 1 to bullshit like Belcher and Reanimator is boring and unfun

>>53223781

Don't even bother to reply to shitposts like that, it only encourages them to keep doing it.

>>53223945
How is liking fair magic a shitpost? One reason people hate Yu Gi Oh nowadays is that its super fast and you win based on the opening hand. Magic may not be to that point yet but its getting there. Force of Will is the only thing saving this format and even that isnt enough sometimes.

>>53224377

I'm on your side nigger, I was just telling you to stop replying to retards that have no argument other than "nice bait"

>>53224483
Oh alright. It really sucks because I like this format but its really starting to degenerate and fall apart. Combo was never this fast, but for some reason Wizards stopped caring about the format and the turn 3 rule a long time ago. I dont like to say cards should be banned because it does hurt people and shakes faith in the format but when the format is this fast what else can you do but ban cards? Even decks like D&T which theyve printed a ton of powerful combo hate for still have a rough time against those decks because of how quick and redundant they are. If anything Ponder should get the axe, its restricted in Vintage and banned in Modern so there is a precedent and ,unlike Brainstorm, Ponder only fuels degenerate combo decks.

>>53224704

All I want is a "We're sorry for fucking up a perfectly balanced format" from wizards. Before the miracles axe, aggro and combo were popular enough where they both occupied 32% of the format, and control sat at 34%. For being the last bastion of control in this shitty game, in no way was it ever oppressing legacy. The only decks it was "oppressive" to were decks that weren't even playing the same game as everybody else.
As for ponder, I think it's fine. It's only restricted in vintage because you can do much more degenerate shit in vintage than legacy could ever come close to.

>>53225079
Good luck getting that, if anything Deathrite will get the axe next and Reanimator will be even more bullshit. On the subject of balance and speed in non rotating formats, basically theyve changes several design philosophies for I think the better, yeah creatures are pushed but the biggest and best thing they ever did was moving away from fast mana and cheap library manipulation. I dont know maybe im just salty, ill just play some Kitchen table for a while I think. I need a break from competitive magic.

File: 6a00e54fd89cec883401053711c3ee970b-500wi.jpg (229KB, 428x600px) Image search: [Google]

229KB, 428x600px

>>53225079
I think miracles was a bit oppressive, but banning top was like using a howitzer to destroy an anthill. If they had banned terminus we still would have had a grindy countertop based control deck to help keep fast combo in check while making decks like maverick playable again. Instead all wizards did was kill miracles and a number of lower tier interesting decks while making fast combo like storm even better. I love this format, but holy shit did wizards fuck the ever loving shit out of it with this last ban decision; Literally 2/3 my local meta is now storm/reanimator/grixis delver/deathrite.dec. It's already starting to get kinda stale.

>>53225079

When one deck is 20% of meta top-8s and the next highest hits—maybe—13%, that's not a good thing. That was Legacy this time last year.

People seem to forget that the decks that are doing well now were doing fine before Miracles got hammered. Suddenly it's a problem for Your Deck because some other deck got the axe? Really? Why wasn't it a problem before? Unless you're one of the few people who actually day-2 big events, I don't think things are likely to change much, and if you're one of those people, I don't really know why you're so upset.

Also, when the hell did people persuade themselves that Force of Will was the only answer to fast combo?

>>53223583

Actually, I played against Blecher and did a reanimated Sire using Animate Dead. I hit him three times until he topdecked a Burning Wish, cast it to grab a Reverent Silence which killed my creature. I couldn't string together another reanimation before he came back and killed me with a Charbelcher activation. It was a lot of fun, though, we were both sweating as we topdecked.

>>53225684
What else answers a Turn 1 Sire on the draw? Because that and Storm ripping apart your hand turn 1 and 2 are what this formats become thanks to WotCs terrible management of this format. Seriously they nerf fair decks by banning Top and allow Fast combo decks to keep all their pieces and continue printing bullshit for them like Dark Petition and Collective Brutality. What happened to the turn 3 rule Wizards? Because im pretty sure Reanimator is a reliable turn 2 win with some turn 1 "wins", same with Sneak and Show albeit a turn slower. Also if you arent playing Blue just forget about it, you have to have a t0 Leyline of the Void, or Discard into RIP/Rule of Law and with how much discard the Reanimator decks and Storm decks are running good luck with that. Watch Wizards be complete bumbling dumbasses though and ban Deathrite Shaman next ban announcement for being too strong and then we'll get even more unfun uninteractive games of Turn 1 Dark Rit, Entomb, Reanimate.

>>53226302
At some point WotC either stopped looking at data or stopped caring about Legacy at all because for about a year and a half now combo decks have been breaking the turn 3 rule consistently. They tried nerfing them with banning DTT and Cruise and Miracles seemed like a boogeyman but Miracles was played because locking them out completely is the only way to beat them consistenly. The problem with combo decks has always been cheap deck manipulation and fast mana, im not saying that all of that needs to go but how can you ban cards that fair decks use like Top and Survival of the Fittest but fast combo gets to keep everything for some reason and every fair deck has to fight an extreme uphill battle. Its like Wizards has multiple personality disorder, examples include
>Splinter Twin was too good in Modern but allowed to be in Standard for a ridiculously long period of time when every piece of data showed it was too good and almost half the metagame
>Combo decks are kept in check with bans in Modern but are allowed to rape the Legacy format and are way faster then turn 3 nowadays
>A one mana mana elf is too good but a 2 mana Serra Angel isnt
>"We are cutting down on tutors" was said before Origins was released and then they go give Storm a busted tutor that produces mana to boot
Its like a psychotic ex girlfriend you cant escape hellbent on ruining everything you enjoy

>>53226453
What's the elf and angel?

>>53227450
I think he's referring to Deathrite Shaman and Serra Avenger in modern.

File: a tack.jpg (53KB, 750x729px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 750x729px

>>53226302
>What else answers a Turn 1 Sire on the draw?

Surgical Extraction
Faerie Macabre
Leyline of the Void

If you can't beat reanimator it's because you really aren't bothering to.

>>53225210

It wasn't just about weakening Miracles; Sensei's Top causes serious problems for tournaments running on time which in turn is a very bad thing for paper Legacy (TO's become a lot less interested in running big Legacy tournaments).

>>53227871
I've very rarely seen these mythical slow top users. If your opponent is taking more than 15-20 seconds to resolve a top activation, you call a judge. If they can't play a deck containing top reasonably quickly you get them handed warnings/game loses for slow play. Entreat based miracles had the problem of not being able to close games, the mentor based version could turn the corner and end games very quickly. I actually very rarely saw miracles players go to time with the exception of the mirror, but lets be honest, control mirrors have a tendency to go to time anyway. I do concede that miracle's games went overall longer than the average game of legacy. This also doesn't take into account the lose of diversity in the legacy metagame that banning top caused.
Painter? Dead.
DDFT? BTFO.
12 Post? BTFO.
NicFit? Much Worse.
Point is, banning top has made legacy a much less diverse and interesting place and in addition has taken away one of the decks that naturally preyed on combo, making it much more likely that additional bans will be required to maintain the health of the format.

>>53227450
Wizards has stated that they think one mana mana dorks like Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch are a mistake. Thats why Birds wasnt in Origins. The 2 mana Serra Angel is Heart of Kiran which is a 2 mana 4/4 Vigilant Flyer where the only cost to play it is having four Gideon AoZ in your deck

>>53228020
This. The format is terrible now. Whats te point of even playing it when out of the top 5 decks, 4 of them are fast uninteractive combo. Storm, GB Depths, Sneak and Show, and Reanimator are the top decks now. Great format. People want to claim Modern is bad but this format is arguably less interactive then even Modern now. At least DSJ interacts and isnt turn 2 win. Affinity and Burn are uninteractive but way easier to fight and disrupt and Storm is playable but not oppressively good which is how it should be.

File: 1489583553322.jpg (36KB, 607x608px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 607x608px

crying already started, let the combo winter begin

protip: if your deck isn't disruptive enough to intercept fast combo it belongs to the trash

Since the top ban my local meta has degenerated into 75% fast combo and delver, and I'm already tired of it. That's why next legacy night at my LGS I'm bringing this list to harvest some salt:

Thalia Stompy:
2x Aven Mindcensor
2x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Lodstone Golem
1x Palace Jailer
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Sanctum Prelate
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Walking Ballista
2x Containment Priest
4x Chalice
4x Mox Diamond
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Ancient Tomb
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Eldrazi Temple
2x Karakas
7x Plains
4x Wasteland

SB:
2x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Containment Priest
3x Rest in Peace
1x Blessed Alliance
2x Disenchant
2x Holy Light
4x Swords to Plowshares

The numbers are still a little rough, but it already feels pretty good. This deck stomps the shit out of ANT/TES and Reanimator, and has good matchups against most of the delver, Sneak & Show, and BUG goodstuff decks in testing. However, it's Lands match up is balls. I'm hoping nobody will be on lands due to how awful its fast combo matchups are in general. What do you anons think? should I try to get in some 3balls/Suppression Fields? What about the creature mix? I've been debating on Mindcensor, it seems like it might be too cute, I could see going +1 Prelate and +1 TKS/Revoker instead.

>>53229174
Screwed up the lands, should also have 3x Cot

>>53228724
There was a deck disruptive enough to keep this bullshit in check, it was called Miracles. Have fun with your turn 1 Yu Gi Oh format though.

Ban Gitaxian Probe

>>53229524
welcome to Legacy

Soldier stompy is probably in somewhat okay place at the moment? At least it has all the tools to attack combos and go faster than DnT.

>>53229588
Like I said Miracles kept the bullshit in check. Its only been a few weeks since the ban so I guess you meant to say welcome to NuLegacy. Its like Modern but with uninteractive combo decks instead of uninteractive aggro decks now!

>>53229730
you can hate out any combo deck easily and the lack of an overpowered format-warping control deck gives you more board slots for combo hate if anything
at any rate, whining so early into this new meta makes you only look funny

ITT: Delusional muraclefags still have a sore asshole.

>>53223518
This is why we run daze newfriend

>>53229960
Because the new meta is more cancerous then the old one by far and has already been figured out within two weeks. The format is literally Delver variants Eldrazi and D&T fighting fast combo decks.

>>53229978
Yeah because Wizards banned the gatekeeper and opened up the floodgates of uninteractive bullshit to pour in. Miracles deserved a hit but other shit will have to be hit now to keep things in check. People are already claiming DRS is next on the chopping block.

And yes im fucking upset. I loved playing a true control deck like Miracles. It felt good actually having control over winning or losing the game. It felt like the choices you made during the game of Magic had weight to them, influenced whether you won or lost and overall made you a better player. Now what is there to play? You can goldfish a combo deck or you can play boring Delver variants, theres also D&T which is about the only interesting deck left. Also ban killed Painter so theres a $2500 deck thats completely useless and unplayable now

>>53230537
>And yes im fucking upset. I loved playing a true control deck like Miracles. It felt good actually having control over winning or losing the game. It felt like the choices you made during the game of Magic had weight to them, influenced whether you won or lost and overall made you a better player. Now what is there to play? You can goldfish a combo deck or you can play boring Delver variants, theres also D&T which is about the only interesting deck left. Also ban killed Painter so theres a $2500 deck thats completely useless and unplayable now

If you loved the deck how would you have nerfed it?

>>53230355
Wouldn't surprise me at all if DRS was the next thing to go. If your playing a fair deck you now need a pretty insane reason not to be BGX, and the next logical step is to go to BUG to get access to Force, Brainstorm, Leovold, etc. I used to think my local meta was immune to this type of lazyness, but now its either decks with DRS or fast combo. It really makes me sad, we used to have some really interesting decks kicking around, you never knew what kind of hot craziness you might play on a given week. Now its all grixis delver, various fast combo, and TNN BUG builds.

>>53230716
Mostly BUG decks to play DRS and Leovold now. Those two are super powerhouse together. Basically there is no reason to play shit cards like shardless agent now that we have access to Leovold.

>>53230309
Before the ban, the format was delver, eldrazi, and dnt fighting miracles and fast combo.

>>53230537
Well fuck off, nobody wants to play with you either

>>53216785
called it

>>53230537
sounds to me you don't even like this format, you only liked your busted deck

>>53229174
Ooooooh, I like it and I hope it works out. Also, is it just me, or does Lodestone Golem actually interact with Storm in the way I think it does?

>>53229978
They pulled this bullshit in Modern too by banning Splinter Twin and from that we've seen nothing but aggro decks and back to back bans. I don't agree that Top was a good ban at all. A signature of a healthy format should be the LACK of bans, not a ban every three months. I'm anticipating a bad Legacy metagame but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

>>53232017
Lodestone golem interacts with storm in much the same way thalia does. Not quite as bad an effect but the clock is much faster .

>>53230716
This is pretty much my thoughts as well, DRS is the next logical ban if WotC decides to keep chipping away at the format. After DRS it'll be Chalice, then the best Moxes and LED, soon we'll be playing modern with more duals.

File: 1476344392930.png (26KB, 1024x1024px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 1024x1024px

>>53232017
>Comparing top and twin.
>Saying that current modern meta is bad
Wewew lad

I don't understand all this "miracles kept combo in check" bullshit. First of all, combo isn't even more prevalent now than it was before the ban. Looking at mtggoldfish, storm is 11% of the meta, S&S is 7%, reanimator is 3%, and turbo depths is 2%. I'm sure there are some other combos running around so I'll round up to ~25-30% combo in the meta. That doesn't seem that oppressive to me. Also, miracles wasn't that great against combo anyway. Delver decks were far more threatening to combo than miracles because they actually put a reasonable clock on the combo decks.

>>53233104
So soon we'll all be playing Vintage, right? I can afford Oath of Druids in about 4 or 5 years.

>>53233487
You are trying to make sense with Delusional autists. They won't acknowledge that their precious deck is not really needed on the format

I seem to have a very different situation than most of you guys. My meta's getting a lot more diverse post-top, especially in the control archetype. The legacy scene here has always been very great though with people lending cards freely and monthly high-stake tournaments.

>>53234018
Where is this promised land?

>>53233402
>Saying that current modern meta is bad
>Wewew lad

It really isnt great though, aggro is ~60% of the meta, and the current combo worth anything is either storm(which can't deal with a single removal spell) or a toolbox deck. There's no control to speak of in the format because it has nothing to prey on. Modern is roughly 2 decks right now, one that aims to drop fatties as quickly as possible, one that drops little dudes and bolts. That's honestly the meta right now and it's the reason I've moved into playing almost completely legacy.

Also, top ban was a bad ban(counterbalance or terminus would have been better), but at least the meta can adapt better than other formats, still feel bad for DDFT guy and anyone playing nic fit.

>>53233545

>They won't acknowledge that their precious deck is not really needed on the format
Talk to me in a few months when combo and aggro decks make up 80% of the format

>>53235010

The only reason that aggro is so prevalent in modern is because tron exists. Hope you can kill them before they drop ugin on turn 4 :^)

>>53235010
>Uw control is tier 1
>No control
Lol keep talking about things to don't know

>>53235186
>less than 2% of the meta
>tier 1

delusional modernfags, everyone

>>53226453
Did you seriously just call Dark Petition busted?

>>53235042
the online meta moves much faster than the paper one, and aggro/combo is clearly not 80%. Keep crying my friend, turns out miracles wasn't the floodgates holding back the surge of combo.

>>53235520

I said in a few months, but keep grasping at straws. Time to sleeve up eldrazi. If wizards wants to push brainless shit so badly, might as well join them.

>>53235573
yes, and I said that online the format has already adjusted to the lack of miracles. There isn't some secret combo that miracles was keeping down that is going to burst out and become the next best thing.

>>53230666
Late reply but I would have banned Terminus. A one mana instant board wipe was really good and if that was gone aggro decks would have had a much easier time putting pressure on the deck.

UWB or UWr stone blade?

>>53231664
I did like the format and the deck and no not because it was busted but because it had interaction, there was a ton of lines of play and the decisions you made during the game determined whether you won or lost, a great play could pull you to victory but a misplay was very easily a loss. I enjoyed the deck because it didnt play itself. Goldfishing combo and sequencing aggro decks is not fun, 90% of games its the same shit with only a few stand out games where decisions you made mattered and you werent just on autopilot.

>>53233487
MtGtop8 still lists UW control which is essentially Miracles as the top control deck which is untrue as the deck is unplayable now. It'll take a few weeks for it to display correct stats of the meta and you can bet your duals that itll be fast combo and Delver the format. No new decks become viable due to the ban suff that was jank remains jank but what does happen is fast combo that was good before now gets to rape the format because there is no Control deck anymore.

>>53235412
Not him but UW control is actually really good right now and im enjoying Modern more then Legacy after the ban so take that as you will.

>>53235412
>https://www.mainphasemtg.net/modern-tier-list/2017/5/8/modern-tiered-list-weekly-update-and-analysis-for-5817
>3, 2 -3,7 -4,7
Keep lying fag

>>53233487
It's all just shitposting from bored modern players. Look at their general, it's crawling along like a Legacy thread. They're bored and want (you)s.

>>53236091
Mtggoldfish uses only decks that recently 5-0ed a league and some that placed at larger tournaments, it is up to date and combo is not running rampant. Miracles wasn't even that good against most combo because it gave the combo decks time to sculpt the perfect hand. Plus a lot of times it has a bunch of bad/dead cards game one in combo matchups

>>53235969

I like both colors, but I think esper is slightly better positioned. Depends on if you need blood moon or not.
That being said, I think both variants aren't that great. Might as well run delver or combo.

>>53235969
Definitely Esper. Jeskai Stoneblade is a meme.

>>53236720
care to explain ?

>>53237555
Red really only gives you access to Bolt and Pyromancer. Black gives you access to hand destruction, Vindicate, even Liliana. Black is a lot better in midrange in Legacy than Red imo.

>>53237613
Red also gives pyroblast which is a pretty big deal imo

>>53237943
Then if your meta has a lot of blue based decks, run Jeskai. If your meta requires more hand disruption and is heavy with combo, Esper is a better route.

>>53236155

Im curious, what list do you run?

>>53236029
>butthurt bad miracles player who got stomped by skilled combo players detected

Are miracles players really so delusional that they think their deck was the only one that required any amount of skill to play? I'll be honest, it wasn't even that hard. I picked up a miracles deck and played it a couple times at some weeklies, and I think I only lost a single match. Navigating the first few turns may have been tricky and important to get right, but after that you just coast on how much more powerful your deck is than the rest of the field. Wow you spun top and put a 2 cmc card on top to counter their 2 cmc spell. Very skill intensive.

>>53238861
The deck is gone fucktard so no im not getting stomped by combo players because im not playing Legacy anymore. When I did get stomped by combo it felt fair like I could've done something else to try and prevent it. The mistake was on me and it didnt feel like I lost because of a matchup. When I won a game with Miracles it felt good because I made decisions that impacted the game, the win wasnt handed to me through the deck autopiloting itself like a Goldfish aggro or combo deck. How hard is it to get that people like decisions in all games? They like their choices to matter, I dont want to play a video game thats on autopilot why would I want to play a card game on autopilot. Im not saying that autopilot decks are bad either necessarily, people enjoy different things and if a player wants to play something as one note as Burn or Reanimator then they should have the ability to do so, but I should have the ability to play a deck I want to as well and at this point the only deck left with real decision making is D&T and Delver.

>>53238969
>this is what miraclefags actually believe

wew lad

>>53238526
This list with a few changes. I run a few Wall of Omens and Restoration Angels and the Planeswalker suite is two Gideon AoZ, and one Suns Champion.

>>53239018
Point out one thing I said that was wrong. Is it wrong that people like decisions in games? Because the trend with modern gaming is to give players a ton of choices, whether its Call of Duty players choosing which guns, perks, and attachments they like or Dark Souls players selecting a weapon and armor set they enjoy, or MOBA players choosing which heroes they like to play most, players want choices and decks like Reanimator, Burn, Sneak and Show, and Belcher are completely devoid of those choices.

>>53239021
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-u-w-control-36686#online

>>53239082
You said that combo decks are autopilot, that's pretty wrong. That's the kind of opinion that comes from not actually knowing how to play legacy combi. Pretty sure you're a modern babby who played miracles a couple times and lost a lot and was glad for the excuse to drop the format.

>>53239082
Belcher I will give you, there are not many choices to be made. Luckily its just a meme deck that loses to force of will, so its not a big deal. But you are delusional if you think miracles was the only deck that had decisions to make. Most combo decks have pretty important decisions to make too, which you might realize if you tried piloting them. True, they might not have as many decisions to make because they aim to end the game fairly quickly, but I think that makes every decision made with a combo deck that much more important and impactful. When games go longer, like with miracles, mistakes you make are much more forgiving because you will have time to make it up. That being said, there are plenty of control decks that you can still play, any new stoneblade variant, the 4-color/leovold lists, and standstill decks are sort of becoming more popular as well. Miracles is certainly not the end-all, be-all of skill-intensive magic.

>>53238969
You can make decisions with other decks you know, Miracles and the ones you listed aren't the only ones. It's really sad that they deleted a huge portion of the field by taking Top out, but it's not like it's the real end of the world. As I recall anything in BGx was siding Abrupt Decay solely to deal with Top and Counterbalance, and even decks not in those colors.

What they SHOULD have done is choose a card to unban and test that deck to see how it changes the metagame, particularly against Top decks, and to see if Top becomes more of a necessity or if it is less used for whatever reason.

>>53239280
unban earthcraft and watch the format tremble beneath the might of the new enchantress overlords

>>53239236
>Reanimator
>attempt to rip countermagic and hate pieces out of your opponents hand quick and then reanimate a big guy
>Sneak and Show
>play Show and Tell with adequate counterbackup and a fatty in hand
>Storm
>again rip countermagic and hate out of opponents hand with discard and then do some math
>Burn
>literally just sequence Burn spells correctly
Wow so skill intensive anon

>>53239330
have you played any of those decks for a reasonable amount of time?

>>53239244
Basically im forced in to playing Stoneblade which is control but its not very good. Wasnt good before Top ban and isnt good after.
>>53239280
They nuked like 3 decks with the ban. Miracles is worthless, you can sell the deck or buy the missing pieces for Stoneblade. Painter is fucking worthless, you cant make anything playable out of that shell now which sucks seeing as Recruiters were $1000 for a playset.

>>53239359
I can study the metagame and watch others play them. Even the most prolific Burn players know its just sequencing and a little bluffing at times. Reanimator and Storm have the early discard for a reason and its to rip apart hands so they cant be disrupted. Sneak and Show im the least familiar with but its pretty straightforward.
Also all this defensiveness is strange, I never said I hate Legacy, to the contrary I really enjoy it but its depressing to see the way its going. They just keep printing more cards that encourage not interacting with your opponent.

>>53218358
Oh my God, did my suggested name stick? I don't come to these threads often enough to follow these things.

>>53239496
when was the last time storm or sneak and show got a new card? Reanimator recently received collective brutality, which is a very interactive and skill-rewarding card. They are pushing creature-based interaction more than anything, so I doubt legacy combo decks are going to be getting new toys in upcoming sets.

Also people are trying to tell you that you are wrong for thinking that combo decks require no skill or decisions. Storm is considered one of the more difficult decks to master, simply because there are a ton of decisions to be made that have a pretty big impact on the game. You would know this if you actually tried playing these decks, you don't get the same experience from just watching them. There are plenty of choices being made and interaction with your opponent that seems simple while you watch them, but when you actually pilot the deck those nuances become apparent.

>>53228020

Not the guy to whom you were replying, but I've seen hideously slow Top activations. They happened to occur in the same deck every time, meaning that Top probably wasn't the best thing to ban. That said, I'm still glad that deck has been made a capon for eternity.

You're also right that there hadn't been any reason to run Angels Miracles or Venezuelan Legends since Mentor saw print.

I can't get behind the argument that the format's uninteractive now. That's what it was when Miracles was around, so I don't know why people think the new kings are any worse. At worst, the game's over quickly these days, which is a big improvement over the way things used to be. And predators for those decks are still out there and still viable.

>>53226302

>turn 3 rule

That goal was unattainable when they set it for themselves, it swept agonizing matchups under the rug without addressing them (MUD, etc.), it did nothing to dent the power of aggro-control and prison, and it wasn't intended to apply to Legacy or Vintage anyway—and if it was, that was a fool's errand from the beginning.

To answer your question, Chancellor of the Annex, Disrupting Shoal, Surgical Extraction, Faerie Macabre, Mindbreak Trap, and Leyline of the Void. I'm not happy Wizzerds decided banning something that was useful to more decks than Miracles was a good idea. But graveyard hate's been free since 1994, and it's been Turn-0 since 2005.

>>53229174

Do it. Seriously, do it. If that many people have decided to switch over so quickly just because, make them pay for it. I've been playing Storm for a while, so I wouldn't be salty. Force people to adapt.

>>53229524

>There was a deck disruptive enough to keep this bullshit in check

There was no deck disruptive enough to keep the Miracles bullshit in check. I don't see why you're complaining now that there isn't a single gatekeeper deck that's miserable to play against for everyone but you.

>>53239496
>watch others play them
Play it out yourself or fuck off. It's always different to watch someone doing something and you actually doing it yourself. Most of the time people are pretty ignorant, because they just don't have the experience themselves.
And I do agree with legacy decks being straight forward, but it's those little corner cases you don't normally think about that make all the differences.

>>53240548
I agree with a lot of what you said, but graveyard strategies have a lot of fundamental gameplay issues. You listed 6 cards where only 1 is played mainboard in a graveyard based deck, meaning you say the perfect answer to graveyard turn 1 shenanigans is...... sideboard cards? Wow. Personally I see the biggest reason why fast graveyard decks are fine is that on average, there is rarely preboard turn 1 combo-you-out plays and DRS is usually in the house to swamp those decks.

To be honest Deathrite shaman is in a way logical next ban, but like top, I don't see how banning viable all around versatile cards will result in better format than it is now.

>>53239696
Storm recieved Dark Petition from Origins
Sneak and Show im not sure
Honestly part of this is probably just salt that my deck was banned and yes I understand it was powerful and needed a hit but instead of nerfing it they killed it completely. Its like if you enjoyed playing a certain hero in DoTA or LoL and instead of nerfing its stats they completely removed the character and also made you pay several hundred dollars just to be able to play the game again. Although a lot of the deck transfers over to Stoneblade it'll be a few months before I can afford the rest of the cards on my current budget as I built the deck when I had a much better job years back.
>>53240548
The turn 3 rule was supposed to apply as much to Legacy as the turn 4 rule applies to Modern. Decks that consistently break it are what WotC looks to ban.

>>53241073

You're right that the current set of DTBs is rife with graveyard-using (abusing?) strategies and that it's reached the point that the elephant in the room is a deck for which there's little mainboard hate. But I don't think the argument that the deck is busted because it consistently wins game 1 is valid. The tools are there to beat it G2 and G3, and I've won an absurd portion of my G1s only to lose the next two games on Storm, Dredge, Charbelcher, etc.—most being decks that aren't as fast and protected as BReanimator. Also, lest we forget, mainboard grave-hate is at an all-time high; whether this makes control decks even better is open for debate, especially given that they're often weak to the decks Miracles was strangling out of the format.

>>53241405

I won't argue that Wizards wanted to keep "T1 win" as infrequent as possible, but I don't think they've set an attainable goal. They have to accept that that's a product of non-rotating formats that won't disappear, because as the number of cards in a format increases, so do the number of possible interactions between those cards. The fact that prison decks can result in equally lopsided matchups as early as the first turn is digressive, but I think it's worth mentioning. I just think that it would do a lot of damage to the format to excise the pertinent combo strategies, and that those strategies are vulnerable to enough things on their own to let them stay.

I also think that if Wizards wants to keep fast-combo out of the format, they're doing a poor job of policing it. I think that's great because fast combo adds a vibrancy that's utterly lacking from Modern and Pals. I can understand why people don't like it, but seriously, I don't like losing to prison decks, yet that doesn't mean I want them banned. At the moment, those decks might not be favored, but the only dominant deck in (and for) years that shrugged off all the hate printed for it (and even incorporated some of those cards) was Miracles.

>>53241822
The only reason prison decks work (...well, as well as they do, you know what I mean) is because the degenerate combos are so off the wall nowadays. So many games have been won by turn 1 chalice on 0 and 1.

But yeah, as the card pool grows, the amount of broken things will inevitably increase. We have for quite a while been going towards homogenous decks, because versatile cards are so good. But on the other hand, we have so many other archetypes playable just because those versatile cards allow them to be competitive. Personally I hope the real reason to ban top was that it slowed games into draw-victories, which was a bit demented at times.

>>53241971
>Personally I hope the real reason to ban top was that it slowed games into draw-victories, which was a bit demented at times
Banning Counterbalance instead would help alleviate that problem, and without hitting a bunch of other decks incidentally. It should have been Terminus if anything though. Just call a judge for slow play against extreme Top durdlers

Bump from page 10

>>53241405
>and also made you pay several hundred dollars just to be able to play the game again.
It's your only fault being an idiotic That decided to "invest" in mtg

>>53234819
Europe mate

Is there any merit to playing Silence in storm decks again in this new combo infested meta?

>>53247898
Ask yourself this: what does it do that targeted discard doesn't mostly do already while offering more flexibility?

>>53247898
Is there any merit to dipping into a fourth color when the tools already exist in one of your primary colors?

>>53247898
Will a fedora increase my win percentage?

File: defense grid.ashx.png (133KB, 223x311px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 223x311px

>>53247898
If your looking for a silence type effect defense grid is probably the better option. Its a permanent and doesn't mess with your manabase by forcing you to incorporate white. I've been seeing it pop up a lot in storm list in my local meta, it basically has "you win" printed on it against decks relying on countermagic if it resolves. Plus the masterpiece printing of defense grid is pretty awesome.

>>53248281
No, but it would be fucking hilarious if you showed up playing D&T and talked about how Thalia is the purest waifu and Lilliana is a dirty whore. I'd laugh my ass off if somebody did that as a joke at my FNM.

>>53246573
How the fuck is buying a deck to play the deck investing in MtG? I never specced on cards I just picked up pieces as I went

>Delver and Combo: the Format
Great format you got here

>tfw wizards will ban drs next and let my little dredgelings free
Soon day of the grave!

Is Baneslayer angel good in Landstill?

>>53248250
>>53248202
This is actually the question I'm not sure about. I don't think the mana base would be stretched enough to discount chant effects just due to that. So the real question is what does silence get you that discard doesn't. The big one I see is that it let's you interrupt a combo player after they waste resources. The suprise factor helps here, although an open tundra from ANT definitely screams Silence. It also can be used proactively to time walk opponents against whom you might just need to buy a turn. It can also be used to proactively bait a counterspell, since it is so often a counter or lose spell. It also gets around the rare leyline of sanctity. Before the top ban, I was a big fan of city of solitude, but that was primarily because common sideboard counterspells like flusterstorm or invasive surgery couldn't touch it. With miracles in particular gone I started thinking about similar effects with some relevance to the increasingly common combo matchups.

>>53249043
>it let's you interrupt a combo player after they waste resources.
Against storm and reanimator maybe but how well you you think that plan will fair when they wise up and simply treat you like another opponent sporting counter magic? You may be able to put them off a turn if you respond to some discard but you'll be losing two cards in the process. Otherwise they take the silence and continue on their merry way.
>can be used proactively to time walk opponents against whom you might just need to buy a turn.
>gets around leyline
These seem like marginal advantages and you're not blanking combat unless you use orims chant. Then you're looking at WW which is dipping even harder into white.
>It can also be used to proactively bait a counterspell
Discard does this.

>>53249644
The biggest issue I see with silence is not that discard does much the same thing but that it's most effective if you cast it on your combo turn, thereby increasing the effective cost of you combo. This seems like a much bigger issue than splitting hairs over differences from discard.

>>53250039
I would mention that I commonly strip my opponents hand on the same turn I combo so I'm not certain that's an issue.

>>53250137
Well I do too sometimes, but I'm pretty agressive with my discard too and being able to duress and then combo off the next turn with more mana and info is pretty valuable. The fact that silence can't really do that and doesn't get you info seems like the biggest detriment to it, at least to me.

>>53247898
>flash in Meddling Mage at high Storm count
>name Tendrils
>retire as a salt magnate

>>53250865
>opponent continues to go off, wishes for grapeshot, kills the mage, then kills you with tendrils.

>>53251970
>grapeshots the mage for 20 to prove a point
>domes you for 42 with tendrils.

Discuss the new Death's Shadow deck in legacy. Good? Bad? will it bring memedern players to our format?

>>53255329
There's a Death's Shadow deck in Legacy?

>>53255329
Why would I play deaths shadow over delver

>>53255688
Bob Huang has been playing it in the Legacy Premier League, and it's been cropping up elsewhere:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=15488&d=294367&f=LE
https://www.cardhoarder.com/decks/shared/12517

>>53256408
cause it gets much bigger

File: 1494878449876.jpg (26KB, 500x374px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 500x374px

>>53213351
>Mf after top ban

>>53256524
If you want big dudes you can play goyf, gurmag, tombstalker, hell even the new 6/5. All of those are big without you needing to be at 5 life

>>53247898
>>53249043
>>53249644
i've been siding 2 silence in tin fins.
It's decent in this deck because we already play white and 1 silence answers 1 counter or any number of extractions in the opponent's hand. It seems worse in storm since it's off-color and you probably don't care about extraction as much
Against storm, yeah they can discard it before they go off and in that case a duress would have been better than silence. But they don't always have the discard and in that matchup, once you have a kill in hand it's kind of risky to wait until you get information before you go off, because the other guy could kill you or rek your hand in the meantime. Having said that, i might cut a silence for something that answers permanents
i don't think i'd bring it against BR reanimator..

File: 1477341796024.gif (1MB, 384x216px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 384x216px

>mfw Standard and Modern have better control decks then Legacy
Oh how the mighty have fallen

File: Post-Top Grixis Doomsday.png (515KB, 933x425px) Image search: [Google]

515KB, 933x425px

I've gone back to a more "normal" Doomsday list, basically just swapping Tops for 2x Preordain, 2x Conjurer's Bauble. It feels ok. Went 4-1 on MTGO with it tonight, beating Dragon Stompy, ANT, Jund, and Burn and losing to ANT. Notably no blue decks, although I feel like the blue matchup probably hasn't changed considerably. I'm straight Grixis right now but I'm considering going back to a BURg list so I can play a Decay main and City of Solitude in the board because that card is dope.

>>53260615
Looking good, when did Act replace Ideas Unbound? Is Bauble really better than Chromatic than can't be responded to?

>>53261464
I've been trying Act because it usually doesn't affect piles, but it makes double cantrip piles cheaper, and double cantrip piles are more common now without Top. It also is sometimes easier to cast without LED since you don't have to make UU. it can do some other things, like make piles immune to artifact destruction, and it makes basic piles immune to red blast, and it doesn't draw so it maybe could be used to play through leovold to some extent, I haven't really explored that possibility. Basically, IU was better with Top, this might be better without top.
As for Bauble, I realized that Chromatic sphere didn't feel necesarry to me before the Top ban, so it probably wasn't necessary after. The fact that it can make removal proof piles is nice, but you need a spare mana to do that and without the easy free cantrip from top the deck runs even tighter on mana than it used to. Honestly I'm not even sure you need more than 1 bauble.

I'm still trying to get used to how this list plays differently than the old lists but at least it sort of functions.

>>53261760

Also worth noting that Act stops Vendilion Clique. I like it.

>>53258918

>BUG Delver, RUG Delver, and Izzet Delver exist, but those aren't control decks

>>53248281

Yes.

>>53247898

I'm not really sure what it would do that you couldn't do with green cards or artifacts (or Flusterstorm). With that said, I've been thinking about running Autumn's Veil in the sideboard for breaking countermagic. Probably not much better than Xantid Swarm, but still something that's on my radar.

>>53248684
To be fair, drs only has a limited time window to stop dredge. Otherwise it gets overpowered quickly. It eats away at those g1 percentages though.

File: muh_D4s.jpg (56KB, 312x445px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 312x445px

>Belcher vs SI, basically a mirror match
>G1 he gets off a big EtW, passes to me and I go off and hit him for exactly 18, killing him
>G2 he goes first, tries to draw into a wincon with manamorphoses, fizzles
>I get off one D4, but don't hit any more business
>only have enough storm to Tendrils for 14 with the copy in my opener
>we go to topdecks
>after 2 or 3 turns he EtW for 7
>passes back to me
>Tallman->Culling->Tutor Drills->Cast Drills for 4 and finish him off
Good Times

>>53264935
DRS is pretty often backed with Daze and/or Force which is often game on the spot.

>>53265344
And people think Manamorphose is a good card to run in Belcher.

>>53239330
>Miracles
>spin top, compare two cards' CMC and let Mentor take over the game
Wow so skill intensive anon

File: Belcher.pdf (1MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1x1px

>>53266167
There's a pretty extensive study that was done on the deck that indicated there was no advantage to be gained by cutting manamorphose, i.e. the deck functioned the same with or without it. Doc related.

>>53267041

Featuring the world's greatest sideboard (p. 8).

>>53268613
If only the wishless version wasn't strictly worse, I'd run that shit all day.

>>53258918
I don't know what retard started this meme but there's plenty of control decks in Legacy
fuck, DnT is a control deck

>>53269486
Legacy does have control. That is true.
However, Modern and Standard have better control.

>>53269503
Not really. BUG is an amazing control deck, along with Stoneblade if you want to call it control. Legacy may have fewer UNIQUE control decks but they are by far and away better.

>>53269503
fucking Standard? are you for real?
anyway, RUG Lands would rape any control deck you can come up with

>>53269640
>better
Perhaps this is supposed to mean "more controlling" or "more in line with the ideal control deck as an archetype" rather than "more powerful". Only a retard would think a standard control deck could be more powerful than a legacy control deck.

>>53270311
Clearly. I meant that they're better at controlling the game than a Standard or Modern control deck.

File: BB20170119_icon.jpg (70KB, 550x300px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 550x300px

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-05-17-bantblade/

Played this pile last night. Mondays are legacy nights here. Anyone ever fucked with rallier before? I have to say, it's pretty fantastic. Bounced a rallier with Jace to play it again and get back a jitte that was forced the previous turn.

I don't think Modern or Standard have the kind of dominant control archetypes that Legacy has. I can understand why people are upset over the Miracles ban, though; I don't know of any other big-time control deck except Lands that wins games almost purely on the back of its control cards.

So I've got a question. I'm really digging my combo thang, but I have been wanting to branch out and try something totally different to throw people for a loop. I've only got a total of seven dual lands, all in Grixis/Bug colors, and I'm a bit light on big-money Legacy staples (except fetches and quads of Force and LED) and almost empty of big-money Modern cards. My initial plan had been to try Bug Nic Fit—I'm set on a lot of the cards for it—but with Top out of the equation I'm not sure how viable that plan is. Anyone know of any vaguely budget-friendly decks I could give a spin with the stuff I've got, but that isn't Just Another Combo Deck and isn't a pile of burning garbage? Anyone been running Topless Nic Fit lately? Don't get me wrong: I love my combo. I just want to do something unexpected and fun(?).

>>53271970
I think BUG nic fit would be fine without top. Just play blue cantrips in its place. Probably won't feel that much different.

>>53271970

I've tried a bug fit list in the past but it never performed as consistently as the junk version. It sucks losing force/cantrips but sylvan library sort of gets the job done. I really hate mainboarding that card though, and only do it out of necessity. Bug has a fine time playing a more controlling style, but it lacks the ability to close the game out quickly if need be.

>>53272132
I've played against lots of nic fit lists without top (before the ban) and while they were always Abzan or BUG they still did their thing really well. I don't think nic fit got hit as bad as people seem to say but that's just my 2 cents as someone whose only ever played against the deck

>>53267041
Sorry I don't give too much credit to conclusions from some random tard's first Java program. Brian Guess and Ben Perry both, probably the two guys who've piloted the deck the most, don't run the card, it screws over your mulligans, so that, ceteris paribus if the deck as you say functions the same without them, is alone is a reason to cut them. Getting to enough mana without a LED so that manamorphose fixes your wish bullets is so a priori unlikely it doesn't matter.

>>53274109
>crappy grammar
>crappy use of Latin logic terms
You're not helping your argument, mate. If the deck functions the same with or without them then it's a personal choice. If you find it makes mulligan decisions harder, then don't play it. But it doesn't make the deck better. Belcher is nothing more than an exercise in probability. No need to bring your feelings into it.

So obviously wizards is not likely to touch legacy for another few years, and by that time drs is probably going to get the axe. Is there anything that could be printed, or any meta-shifts that might prevent this? I honestly can't think of anything, the card is just too versatile at 1 mana. I like playing with the card, but I feel like it's just too ubiquitous to stick around.

File: 1493794487826.jpg (42KB, 800x587px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 800x587px

>>53233487
>looking at MTGGoldfish
Ahahahaha

>>53276359

That statement applies to a whole lot of cards in the format, though. I don't think Deathrite is particularly over-the-top busted. It's good/great, but so are a lot of other things.

>>53277845
Not really. The thing is, deathrite is ramp, a stabilizing tool, graveyard hate, and a threat all rolled into a one mana card. Cards like ponder/brainstorm/force or whatever other cards that are comparable to how much deathrite is played are the building blocks of decks, they don't actually win the game on their own. Deathrite shaman is a very unique card, and I am split on whether or not it is good for the format

>>53268613
I mean honestly, you don't plan on a lot of sideboarding with belcher.

>>53278806
>Deathrite shaman is a very unique card, and I am split on whether or not it is good for the format
Honestly what bothers me the most about DRS is not necessarily it's powerlevel, but the fact that it drives every black or green deck towards being BGx. 4 color Delver or Stoneblade goodstuff decks feel gross.

>>53278806
As much as its ubiquity bothers me if deathrite gets banned the format will die. Not because deathrite holds it together but because it means wotc is applying memedern ban logic.

Help me, I just bought into MTGO

Also don't talk about banning anything. Flame anyone who talks about x or y needing a ban. This last BR announcement was awful. Don't fuel the flames

>>53284738
I second this.

Also you poor soul what have you done

>>53225210
i've adjusted to this by playing magus of the moon and a plateau in my deck. no fetches, because fuck getting stifled. recruiters and aether vials are all i need.

>>53281885
The format is already dead though.

>>53277360
What's wrong with that? It looks at the most recent decks that have 5-0ed leagues so it gives a pretty good approximation of the mtgo meta/tier list. If we look at the last 2 weeks on mtgtop8, combo is only 31% of the meta, and that counts decks that I wouldn't consider "fast" combo (elves, aluren, food chain). So this whole "fast combo is taking over" is complete bs because, surprise surprise, miracles wasn't the combo killer you tards think it was. You would know that if you actually played the decks/format

>>53286604
Never understood that notion that miracles was a combo crusher. Most storm and miracles player's agreed that the match up was about even and skill dependent.

>>53286904

I think a big part of it is that fighting Miracles with a deck like Storm requires a completely different approach from the one you take to pretty much every other matchup. If you don't get the chance to practice it much/at all, Miracles is a total clothesline. I'd only started to figure out the way to do it when the deck got the hammer.

could anyone post that comic where a guy goes around his LGS looking for a format to play and the legacy one goes something like "I don't have force of will in my opening hand, I scoop" and they both have expanded brains

thanks

>>53287761
there is no legacy in that picture. you're thinking of vintage

>>53286604
>>53286904
It was just bored modern posters.

>>53288902
More like dumb modern posters amirite

Can I play Pelakka Wurm?

File: 1488205559831-tg.png (200KB, 400x1446px) Image search: [Google]

200KB, 400x1446px

>>53287761
I have been trying to post this for 6 hours

>>53293720
>wait, I counterspell that
>no wait I don't have the mana
kek

>>53293720

So what would the Legacy one say, if there were one?

In b4 "ded foarmt," "dad formets," etc.

>>53295279
it would be vintage but better

File: ybteg5hk.png (243KB, 400x1700px) Image search: [Google]

243KB, 400x1700px

Forgive me.

>>53295572
sick

File: LOL.jpg (331KB, 517x768px) Image search: [Google]

331KB, 517x768px

>>53295572

File: comedyflowchart.jpg (15KB, 375x281px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 375x281px

>>53295572

>>53295572
cheeky cunt

>>53295572
2bh it would be more accurate if legacy and vintage were switched. Nobody plays vintage in paper. I've never once seen people playing vintage at a game store even with proxies

File: received_1596795400580111.jpg (22KB, 395x401px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 395x401px

>>53295572
anon please

>>53295572
My only interaction with commander players has been some guy who interrupted me every time I tried to make conversation before a prerelease to say that he doesn't really like whatever I was talking about, but hey look at this card I picked up it's perfect for commander.

>>53235076
This desu. No one will ever play a cryptic deck when you can play t4 ulamog. No reddit retards understand this though because "Tron is even t1 rn". It's not t1 because people refuse to lose to it and just play aggro

What's the best deck now without miracles?

>>53300598
Elves or some 4 color Delver deck with DRS.

>tfw I only just now realized that banning Miracles shits on stompy decks too
Maybe I'll play 12post.

After miracle has been gone I mostly have been playing vs grixis delver, storm and reanimator. Im playing stiflenought with timewalks and I have been beating them. Mostly must have been lucky counterspells/misdirections. Any other stiflenought bros playing?

Is there any way to make the Energy mechanic work in legacy? I come from standard pls no bully

>>53303206
im not familiar with all the energy cards but i dont think they have enough powerlevel to be t1

>>53303206
The mechanic is too slow for Legacy.

>>53303206
I'm not too familiar with the standard energy decks, but I don't think there are enough pushed cards with enough generic costs. If there were more pushed cards maybe Energy Stompy could work.

File: tmp_11539-239995.hq1324736576.jpg (137KB, 480x680px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 480x680px

>>53303206
*blocks ur path*

>>53304148
I'm kind of intrigued by this idea. You're probably right that there's not enough pushed cards, but almost anything can win some games in a stompy shell...

>>53304635
Some kind of UR Servo deck maybe. Jam the standard Chalice Stompy package and maybe some Dacks. There seems to be a ton of 2 drop energy creatures and not a lot of 1 drops, so that helps that Chalice strats.

>>53304635
Looking at the energy cards, I'm thinking the best ones are in blue or green. Without red, there's no blood moon so you could potentially play UG but I think mono G would be better. http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?text=+[Energy]&color=|[G]
Attune with aether is useless probably but bristling hydra and thriving rhino seem fine. Throw in an architect of the untamed to turn the corner fast in grindy games, throw in some aether hubs, maybe some aether stream leopards, and you got yourself a mediocre deck.

>>53304869

Okay. Okay, hear me out here

Worldgorger Dragon + Animate Dead + Aether Hub: Infinite Energy

Then Consulate Turret for the win. Hell technically you get infinite energy from having Consulate Turret on the field during the Dragon combo anyways, you don't even need the hub, but the Hub would let you still cast any color of instants and churn through your deck for a second win condition of Blue Sun's Zenith or Stroke of Genius.

>>53305765
Deeper and deeper down the rabbithole we go

>>53218008
Grixis Delver, 4 Color Delver, Grixis Delver splashing Green

File: 1467577784069.jpg (760KB, 1280x1656px) Image search: [Google]

760KB, 1280x1656px

>>53295572
Holy shit, you actually improved upon >>53293720 and made it even funnier to boot. Good shit

File: 533.jpg (11KB, 325x166px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 325x166px

>People say that they liked to play against miracles but hate delver
Are you retards?

>>53306162
Don't forget monoG Elf Delver.

>>53306292
>Don't forget monoG Elf Delver.
Fuck, can't believe I forgot that. My bad dude

>>53306400
Also be sure to watch out for RB Reanimation Delver

>>53306506

Also Alluren Delver, Delver Stompy, and Delver and Taxes.

File: 1458805760054.jpg (202KB, 1246x814px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 1246x814px

>>53306882
>Delver Stompy

>>53306938
Damn that looks like a barrel of fun. stompy decks are a bit of a guilty pleasure for me.

T. Combo addict

I'm taking Omni-Tell to my legacy night tomorrow. My question is, should I convert to U/B or go the sneak attack version?

For someone who's been away from Magic for a long time and wanna get back into Modern, what deckbuilding suggestions would you have for black/white midrange? I have four Baneslayers from my M10 days, among other things.

>>53307041
I like UB, I assume B for hand disruption and Lim-Dul's Vault . You also get Deluge in the sideboard if you want it for Elves or something. I just have a huge hardon for UB decks though.

>>53307097
Wrong thread, ignore me.

File: 179.jpg (71KB, 312x445px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 312x445px

Does anyone have any ideas about how to build a Legacy deck around the Great Aurora?

I was thinking of how to do it for Modern, utilizing things like Autumn's Veil and Boseiju, Who Shelters All to get around counter-magic, but Modern lacks a lot of cards to help a combo deck stall aggro decks, unlike Legacy. Plus Legacy has cards like Candelabra of Tawnos which is used to great effect in other big mana decks like 12post to double up on mana, or things like High Tide and the Urza "free" spells, and I imagine Legacy has better token generators too. Any thoughts of cards I should be looking at?

>>53307217
I dont think counter magic is your biggest concern.

>>53307217
You might try casting a spell that wins you the game instead.

>>53307361

Well, essentially what the deck in standard did was it chained Great Auroras one after the other, your opponent's board state dwindled away while your deck was positioned better, then it won by casting something like 3 Gaea's Revenge and swinging for lethal. It was a really interesting unique standard combo deck, but I definitely understand how unwieldily it is, so I was just curious if anyone else had some ideas.

>>53306938
You ought to pay me for the brain cells I lost trying to look through that list.

>>53307105
Right, that's not a bad idea. I have lots of lands players and a couple nicfit and a D&T as well. Deluge would be a huuge help. I'm currently doing 2 dream halls 4 enter the infinite 4 omniscience, people have told.me to move away from EtI as it's worse as a 3 card combo. Thoughts?

File: ??? ???.jpg (70KB, 800x610px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 800x610px

>>53284944
> Fetches in D&T

>>53311629
It's to protect his basics from... I mean they provide a shuffle effect after brainst... but they let him fetch any color like white and... huh.

File: What_Yankee2.jpg (8KB, 147x188px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 147x188px

>>53311763

They thin your deck!

I once had someone tell me about how he ran fetches in his monocolor deck for the deck-thining, and I mentioned how it doesn't actually make any sort of difference, and he replied "yeah i know but it makes me feel like it does."

>>53306938
Where are the delvers

>>53311867
Reminds me of the old mana weaving argument thread.

>>53311916
You don't see them? They let you draw 2 on ETB. Strictly better.

>>53261760
Bauble is actually kind of sick if they try and surgical a key card. I realize the card doesn't really do anything outside of comboing, but are you sure you don't want more than two?

>>53306938
Dawg, where are the trophy mages. That card was built for this fucking deck.

Deck chart pls

File: WhatToPlay_Legacy.png (522KB, 1489x1542px) Image search: [Google]

522KB, 1489x1542px

>>53313632

Old one

File: WhatToPlay_Legacy2.png (499KB, 2500x1800px) Image search: [Google]

499KB, 2500x1800px

>>53313662

Newest one

It'll have to be revised again now that Miracles is kill (There were some other errors anyways, like a mix-up between Miracles/Stax)

>>53313684
Well now, i need help. i play SI and want to do necro 2.0. what do i do?

>>53313612
This isn't my list, I grabbed the first Sea Stompy image I found. Though maybe a 2/2 split, grabbing swords and 3ball is good, but so it fetching Chalice.

File: livewithpurpose.gif (47KB, 306x469px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 306x469px

>>53313684
>Use Chart
>Burn

Being poor is suffering.
Being a spike and poor is more suffering.

File: 20170518_205007.jpg (1MB, 2560x1440px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2560x1440px

My wappy jitte finally came.

>>53313966

Burn is a respectable deck, but the killer issue is that in a format where everyone is doing crazy, off-the-wall things with powerful cards, just directly burning the opponent isn't very exciting.

File: Necro 2.0.png (258KB, 860x612px) Image search: [Google]

258KB, 860x612px

First attempt. played against enchantress. lose g1 because i kept a bad hand.
G2 i won t2
G3 the guy durdled around too much and instead of looking for the solitaire confinement, he kept durdled and i won.
The wishboard actually saved me from fizzling on g2, and i love the art of cunning wish. i will post SB but i have to say is mostly a wishboard

File: Necro 2.0 sb.png (126KB, 585x372px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 585x372px

>>53314731

Could a u/w or u/b thopter swords + mechanized production be a possible deck?

>>53313684
People still use my chart? I'm touched. I have a colorized version somewhere.

>>53314920
You could, but Tezz AoB also cleans up the games handily with both his -1 and -4 while also digging for more prison pieces.

>>53314406
Winning close games with burn is very exciting. When the last card in your hand deals exactly the last point of damage doubly so.

>>53311763
When you're running red. They fetch Plateaus

>>53213351
Where is 4c loam?

>infect
>bad and unfair
Say that to my face fucker and not online.

I cant believe that nearly 20 years later Magic formats are still being raked over the coals by the reserved list. Its almost like a fucking joke at this point. The vast majority of people who were collecting during chronicles probably sold out a long time ago because if you were in high school during the mid 90's you're in your fucking 40s at this point, at the rate prices are going soon the only eternal format will be Commander and the only competitive non rotating one will be Modern. And I am not saying that cards need to have no value, that there doesnt need to be such a thing as rare cards but when lands that are essential to play these older formats are reaching $500 a piece it prices out even wealthier middle class people, and even people who can afford it have to ask is it worth it to spend a grand on two pieces of cardboard? For a lot of people even if they do have a grand to spend the answer is no, and its only going to take a few more $50 increases to make it be well now you have to spend $600 on a blue dual or $500 on a bayou. These cards need to be reprinted in order for the formats we love (yes even partially commander) to survive.

>>53316520
just buy fakes

>>53316572
I hate this argument, why shouldnt we hold the company who produces the game accountable for the problems that are going on within said game? Why does it have to be an outside source who saves us with bad obvious fakes? When Wizards could just print the duals with the vintage masters artwork with the holo symbol.

>>53316630

Well yeah but how much more can you hold the company accountable? People have quit playing over the Reserve list, Wizards didn't care they just appealed to a wider demographic with the Gatewatch crew. People have sent complaints to WotC en masse, the company has shrugged its shoulders claiming that folks who support the Reserve List have their ear more. Magic websites have written scathing editorials over the Reserve List and Wizards has just yawned in their face. There seems to be nothing that will cause Wizards to change their course.

>>53316630
Isn't that how the free market works though? If wizards is fucking up and chinamen are willing to take steps at least somewhat alleviate some of that, what's wrong with that? The fact is wizards is very unlikely to change, so we have to look elsewhere. Ultimately, fakes are going to get good enough that either prices tank anyway, or wizards is finally forced to reprint them with holo stamps, either way the players win.

Btw the fakes aren't that bad, I have used them in multiple gps and even gotten deck checked and nobody has said a word.

>>53316737
Give me a tip on how to find fakes that ain't garbage, because about all I have seen are pretty low level and overpriced for what they are.

>>53314731
neat

>UBx the format
Cancer

>>53317602
>Elves is UBx
jej

File: 118.jpg (77KB, 312x445px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 312x445px

>>53317926
BLUE
ELF
MASTER
RACE

Actually, I wonder if you could just make a UBG Elf Control deck. We've got Blue-Green and Green-Black elves. You'd get access Force of Will fodder, Brainstorm, Elvish Harbinger to tutor for things like Leovold, Emissary of Trest, Deathrite Shaman, Nath. It'd be interesting.

Does green really only have 2 playable cards outside elves? I only see abrupt decay and DRS used. I currently have a U/G stasis prison deck and tried to find some good G cards outside of crop rotation, krosan grip and such.

>>53320430
Carpet of Flowers, Sylvan Library, and Mirri's Guile are great cards in green. I've got a feeling we will be seeing a lot more of Library and Guile in particular now that SDT is banned and somewhat of a drop off in abrupt decay due to the fact that one of it's main functions was to break up countertop. I think that most B/G/x lists are moving towards fewer Decays and more copies of Fatal Push.

>>53320505
>Carpet of flowers
totally forgot that. goes perfectly into stasis vs blue decks

>>53317602
Here are decks that typically don't play blue or black at all:
Dnt
Dragon stompy
Eldrazi stompy
Belcher
Rg Lands
Burn

Here are decks that don't play blue:
Elves
Turbo depths
Pox
SI
Oops all spells
Manaless dredge
Abzan nic fit
Maverick
Deadguy ale

Inb4 "hur dur elves plays leovold, dredge plays narcomoeba, clearly they're blue decks"

>>53320430
>Mongoose
>Tarmogoyf
>Elvish spirit guide
>Veteran explorer
>Golgari grave troll
>Crop rotation
>Leovold
>Eternal witness
you could at least have tried to give the impression you Know legacy metagame

>>53320505
My junk list is moving to 2 decay 3 stp 4 push for the removal suite. Never thought I'd see the day that decay wasn't just a 4 of to shit on counterbalance

Uncounterable means it's not going away completely but 1 mana removal just seems more valuable at the moment

>>53323124
Why would you play the 4th push over the 4th swords. Swords is way more powerful and flexible

>>53323390
Because I only have 3. And there's a fuckass lot of new delver players at my LGS and push is arguable better at killing delver because sometimes that 3 life matters

>>53323480
With Push, is Dismember completely irrelevant other than as a colorless removal spell for merfolk or something? There aren't that many creatures that survive Push but die to Dismember.

>>53323529
Dismember hits reality smasher but you're getting fucked anyway in that case

Bumperoonie

>>53318493
So you're thinking of BUG midrange elves instead of elves as a combo deck? The issue is that midrange elves are overcosts for their effects, like Nath. The deck doesn't get enough for being specifically elves over kust being BUG midrange with TNN.

Are any of you any actually any good at magic? Any league 5-0's? SCG day 2's? Even top 8's at larger local events? Or are you all just scrubs who circlejerk?

>>53327140
I've made day 2 at a couple opens/gps, but that's not that hard. Unfortunately I'm poor so I don't get to travel much, but I do pretty well at weeklies, basically always prize. I have also won a couple dual lands when my local shop did win-a-dual tournaments, the turnouts for those were about 30ish people. I think I'm competent but certainly not protour level

>>53328293
I suspect this is the level most of us are at. I've only played in two large 2-day events and didn't quite make day 2 in either, but I've won dual, prized some mid size events, and generally do well at weeklies. All of this was pre-top ban of course; all I've done since then was bomb out of a GPT.

>>53327140
I'm at the Louisville open this weekend. I'll undoubtedly scrub out. If anyone wants to spot me, I'll be wearing a hat maybe.

>>53314406
Yeah burn is pretty cheap but not that fun. I've given up on legacy burning I have to maybe ill play burn, I'll probably be given shit about it

>>53327140
I don't even play this game anymore lmao

>>53327140
I mostly play on a free online platform. I think I'm decent though, I have a good graspnon rules and sequencing. Still catch myself in dumb mistakes though.

How is Enchantress in the post miracles meta? Will Maverick and aggro rise?

I wonder why WotC hates the objectively two best formats: Vintage and Legacy.

>>53333878
They make them the least amount of money

>>53334120
So just end the reserved list

>>53334222
I agree but I'm sure that Hasbro doesn't want them to for legal reasons or other shit that I don't care enough about

>>53334222
Standard makes wizards most of its money due to the fact that people have to keep buying in. If non-rotation formats (Modern, Legacy, Vintage) are cheap, nobody plays standard and MTG sales go in the shitter. Wizards buisness model is built on fleecing the sheep/new players with standard, there is no way that they are going to make eternal formats significantly cheaper if they can help it.

File: Thalia wallpaper.jpg (2MB, 2560x1600px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2560x1600px

How do you sideboard D&T against Grixis Delver?

There's a tourney tomorrow and I'm anticipating I'll probably run into 2-3 people playing it

>>53335264
beware the red dragon

Might have just played the most bumbling match of my life. I punted 2 games in a row to lose to BR reanimator in my last match in a league. g2 I made them discard a Collective Brutality instead of an Exhume when they had 2 creatures in the yard and I had 1 Surgical in hand. Then in game 3 I somehow accidentally clicked through my first turn without even playing a land and got summarily blown the fuck out.

File: Sulfur Elemental_PLC.jpg (271KB, 672x938px) Image search: [Google]

271KB, 672x938px

>>53336021
>Dragon

File: reddragon.jpg (33KB, 223x310px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 223x310px

>>53339040
>dragon

>>53335264
-3 Revoker
-1 Crusader/P+K
+2 Path
+2 CJ

>>53295572
>I have Norin and Impact Tremors prepare to lose scrubs
Every fucking time

File: Know more.jpg (86KB, 640x512px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 640x512px

>>53339040
Time Spiral block had some really wierd shit

Anyone watching SCG Luoisville for the occasional legacy action?

>>53343619
Too busy playing. I'm 4-1 personally but my team is 3-2

>>53343708
good luck senpai. It kind of sucks that you could theoretically go 9-0 on day 1 and still not make day 2 but the team format seems dope.

Quick, everybody! What's your least favorite card in Magic?

Tarmogoyf

>>53345473
Chalice. That fucking piece of shit can eat a fucking dick.

>>53345684
I can get behind this. I also hate death's shadow, but that's from playing modern.

>>53345473
Delver of secrets

>>53345473
Ensnaring Bridge.

>>53345473
Deathrite Shaman. Card makes it hard to justify playing fair decks that aren't B/G/x.

>>53345473
Abrupt Decay! It keeps killing my Chalices.

>>53345473
Rest in Peace maybe?

>>53334512
I disagree. They'd just get more people interested in better formats and be able to sell reprints pretty easily. It's not as if WotC has a hard time selling the masters sets. Standard is just where they can aggressively push tournaments and FNM stuff.

>>53346940
The issue comes from not printing too much. If they overprint eternal staples and legacy/modern becomes affordable for standardbabbies, they might realize that those formats are way more fun and stop playing standard. Once you have a deck, there is no reason to buy into new standard sets, which means less sales for wizards

We've hit the bump limit! good work everyone. First one in a long time.

New thread for hated cards?