Is it possible to write a cruel character without being edgy?

Make sure he has a reason to inflict pain. It doesn't have to be a good reason, it can be as petty as someone stepping on his heels, but don't make him beat the shit out of people for no reason.

>>53198812

Write a female character.

>>53198812
Simple answer: dehumanize them.
Don't think of allies/enemies/NPC's as people. Think of them as chess pieces or checkers or the like. If sacrificing one or more gains you a clear advantage, do so. If a move would let something be killed for no value, prevent it or at least set up a value trade. If your goal is to win the game, then use every resource you have to win because pawns and rooks have no feelings.

>>53198812
In my experience, the line between edgy and cruel is drawn along practicality. Edgy characters are needlessly flamboyant in their evil, whereas cruel characters do only as much as they need to. Don't waste resources, don't waste time. Don't revel in your cruelty, but never shy away from it when it would get the job done (and most of the time it gets the job done in one way or another).

>>53198812
Being cruel often gives you the edge over moral characters, so no.

>>53198812
I think this thread has good advice already so I'll give some less good advice that has managed to work for me before.

Make them cowardly. Everyone will hate them but no one will think of them as edgy, they'll nosedive into the realm of douchebaggery.

>>53198812
The difference between edgy and cruel is how hard you try. Edgy characters are tryhards, more or less the bizarro-counterpart to Mary Sues in my opinion. You can even have a "lol cuz I'm evil" character that isn't edgy. Edgy is basically goreporn. It's the difference between gouging someone's eyes out and creating a machine that systematically swaps testicles and eyeballs.

>>53199663
This too.

Yes.

>>53198812
Dracula was cruel, Caligula was edgy.
If you use violence to detriment violence against you, your people, or just cause you're fucked in the head and can't avoid it. You're not necessarily edgy.
If you use violence in a self-congratulatory way and shine as much attention on it as you possibly can so that people will see how violent and powerful you are and how little you care about consequences. You're a little shit with no redeemable qualitites and an edgelord.

The cruel do not revel in their misdeeds, in fact, the often hardly acknowledge them. They may watch for an enjoyment that they know is perverse, but they simply dont feel shame from what they did, if they feel one way or another about it at all.

If I'm cruel, I may slit someone's throat and hold their hand or watch whilst they bleed, or I may simply leave without another motion.

If I'm edgy, I'm going to laugh while I do it, and likely piss or take a dump on them as well.

It's not a intrinsic desire to make bad things happen that makes someone cruel, it's the total lack of empathy that they have from inflicting said cruelties.

>>53198812
Sure.
Make him fat, wear gold chains, smoke cigars, and have a real good flabby laugh.
Then you're just a saturday morning cartoon villain.

>>53203097
You very easily can have a "lol cuz I'm evil" type who isn't edgy.
All he has to do is have CLASS, and recognize that there is a WAY to doing evil.
Skeletor did it cuz he's evil, and he's the least edgy thing I can think of.

>>53204419
>Caligula was edgy
Okay.

>>53204642
Yeah, I gotta say, caligula is a good example of an edgy villain.

>>53199368
No, edgy characters are the ones with a "reason" for being cruel. Those that are just cruel because they get off on it or are just uncaring dicks aren't edgy. You have it backwards duder.

>>53198812
Call me a dude from /v/, but the pyro from TF2 is a good example.

>>53204668
Both are edgy, actually.

>>53204419
>Dracula was cruel, Caligula was edgy.
So basically, if the character did nothing wrong, he is cruel, but if he did, he's edgy?

>>53204691
I think we have different definitions of edgy then. I see the dark, brooding, misunderstood villain who never got hugged and whose mom was a whore as edgy. Someone who is just downright mean to others because nobody ever told them otherwise, or maybe even fostered and encouraged it in them, or they were too powerful to be told "no" aren't edgy. They're just cruel. Edgy wants you to KNOW it's edgy. It wants you to feel its pain. Cruel just wants to treat you however it wants to with no consequence.

>>53204742
Both of those are very edgy.
My definition is the definition that was used before all this internet shit. Which was something that pushed the edge of what was acceptable for 90s television.

>>53198812
A character who is otherwise an upstanding person, but pulls the wings off insects out of habit when he or she is bored.

The trick is making a character who's first instinct in any given situation is not to maximise suffering. That's not a good character. That's a caricature. Cruelty in a non-edgy character is a secondary characteristic.

>>53198812
Have you ever seen a huge shit who WASN'T A murderous bastard?
There you go. Cruel without being edgy.
The extent of his misdeeds could be INTENTIONALLY NOT REWINDING A TAPE BEFORE RETURNING IT

CUTTING IN LINE

BRINGING YOUR OWN COASTER TO USE IN A NO COASTER ZONE

>>53204709
>Do horrible things to people because ottomans get out reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Is ok, he's an overzealous warchief.
>Do horrible things to people because I'm your god on earth and you must adore me reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Is dangerously high on the fedora scale.

>>53204742
If the character has an emotional stake in his cruelty and shines a spotlight on it, it's edgy (ie. meme agent of chaos Joker). If the character's cruelty comes from lack of empathy or plot necessity, it's not (ie. most BBEG's right hand men).

>>53204569
Or a strip club owner.

>>53204927
This guy poked at what makes a character not edgy-necessity. A soldier, a worker, a person doing what is required, is not technically edgy though they may commit extensive violence in following orders.

>>53204947
Strip club owners make very good saturday morning cartoon villains.

>>53204569
no, you have Baron Harkonnen.

>>53204977
>>53204970
>>53204947
None of these statements contradict one another.

>>53198812
Yeah, as long as you dont glorify his cruelty, but still explain it.

You want the viewer/gamer/whatever to understand why he's evil while still not taking his side. Characters who do evil shit just for the sake of being evil give off an edgy vibe.

>>53198812
Define cruel. My current character for example maims people with a clear conscience, because she's not killing and she has a very black-and-white moral compass. There's no malice and no pain that within her worldview is "unjustified", but there's also no pity or remorse.

So is that cruel?

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Widely regarded as one of the smartest and most honest men of his time. He was incredibly cruel, but he was completely convinced of the nobility of his cause and the necessity of the suffering and death her inflicted.

>>53204987
So Baron Harkonnen should be a strip club owner in a Saturday morning cartoon?

>>53205468
... That's a fucking brilliant idea.

>>53204880
>ottomans get out REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
read a Fucking history book man. Ottomans were massive cunts

>>53205468
My cartoons are pretty short of strippers

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>>53198839
>>53199726
>>53201089
>>53201904

Yeah basically these. You can also take inspiration from Bleak Walkers (PoE) who are somewhat edgy but have the right idea.You can use cruelty as a tactic to break morale.

>>53205468
I mean he probably did own some strip clubs. Dude owned two whole planets at one point. All he's missing is the cartoon.

Just because this is a thread about character and I feel the need to post this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2F9ADVDSZLw

>>53205523
That and they outnumbered Vlad's army and entire country extensively, Wallachia was located right at the edge of the Ottoman empire, the Ottomans held him and his family hostage when he was a child, and because of this he basically had no respect from most of Europe and the Ottomans since they thought he'd just bend the knee and let them through into the rest of Europe. Vlad did what he had to do to keep his people from being slaughtered.

>>53204597
Edge is for boys, class is for men?

>>53206165
I would hesitate to make a rule of thumb for these things, as it varies wildly.
For instance: If you take something edgy, then make it EDGIER, and make it even edgier, it stops being edgy.

Like, you have to really stack it though. Using your crimson blade on the dark tower in the shadow of the blood moon while your, uh... shit.
See, I'm not good enough at being edgy period to do over the top edgy, so I am having a hard time coming up with an example.

>>53198812
I did got our party to go along with a Waco on some village
It was pretty cruel, but they were all (probably) cultists and it's what the bossman wanted near enough

>>53205468

What the hell kind of Saturday morning cartoons are you watching?

>>53207060
When I was a kid I watched swat katz, and tank police.
I WATCHED THE GOOD SHIT

>>53201904
Doooood

>>53205352
Was he convinced of his cause or was that what he told himself as the dark desire for death and destruction within every human heart consumed him? Did absolute power corrupt him absolutely or did absolute power just allow his darkest fantasies to become reality?

>>53206913
The trick to adding edge isn't adding more descriptors to one thing, it's adding multiple things that are OTT in description. The problem is, the more you get, the more autism comes out. Something else to add edge is not describing the clothes unless provoked. Perhaps keeping that information unmentioned could add an "air of mystique" that edgelords would eat up. Yes, I have catered to edgelords before.

>>53207711
Why is that?
Is it the phrasing used?
Is it the emphasis on the darker aspects of what's taking place?

a)
The wind blew as he raised his bloodstained sword, a smile spread across his lips. They still dared to attack him. Fools. Four had lost their lives already, yet they continue one after another as animals. "Come, if you must."

b)
As a cool breeze swept across the plains, a smile formed at his lips. It's the little things, he thought, that could make your day. This breeze, for example. The temperature had been nigh unbearable for most of the afternoon, yet this momentary lapse in heat filled his heart with hope. Things would improve with time, he decided. Endure the heat, he thought to himself, and wait for another breeze. Smile still across his face, he raised his bloodied weapon to address the assailants. "Come, if you must."

Why is A significantly more edgy than B?
Is there a resource to avoiding edge?

Cruel people don't usually think they're cruel, they just think they're brutally honest and pragmatic.

>>53198812
edgy is melodrama. Avoid adding too much pretension and focus on being a good storyteller. There are various reasons why someone might be cruel without necessarily being edgy or even a dick.

>>53205639
>take inspiration from Bleak Walkers (PoE

My god do I love that game.

>>53209041
I mean, I was referring to the description of the character themselves, as the thread was more focused on the character being edgy/not edgy.

However, yes. The focus should be on the dark bits. Edge is based on the dark aspect, so the light parts are the edge avoidance. If you want a darker appearance, focus on the dark parts. If you want a lighter tone, focus on the light.

A)
He stood there, blade in hand, clothes dripping blood. He smiled and turned to his next target. "Hey there, let's dance."

B)
There he stood, crimson steel shimmering in the moonlight and his clothes dyed a deep red from the combat. The stench of blood forced a grin to his face, in spite of his best attempts to keep a straight face. He turned to face his prey, drawing his blade out of their former comrade. "Hey there," he spoke, lowering his voice to a near-whisper. "Let's dance!"

C)
The sun glared as he stood there panting, covered in cuts and bruises. His blade, as well as his clothes, were absolutely covered in blood, both his and his foes. Still, the blade shone as he regained his breath and focused himself. He turned to his rival, smiling and settling into his combat stance. He challenged him and called out. "Hey there! Let's dance!" He knew this one would be one for the historians.

Note how both B and C are based on A, but have been built differently to display different emotions. The important thing is where the emphasis is. Lots of dark in B, and C has a bit, but it's far overshadowed by the light stuff.

>>53209716
I get it now. Thanks, anon. Keep on keeping on.

>>53209958
You too, friend.

>>53205523
Nebody said they weren't.

>>53209099
This, cruelty is just violence wether physical, psychological or both. Edgyness is making a soap opera out of it.

A soldier can be extremelly cruel in combat without acting like the fucking Joker. In fact real life cruelty is usually devoid of glam and drama.

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>>53198812
Yes, make them insult people and generally be mean to those around them.

A cruel character is someone who is mean, inconsiderate, or unnecessarily violent. They don't have to be "edgy" unless you make them so.

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I recommend you make them, the closest I would describe it, lighthearted.

Edgy people generally sulk in self loathing and pity.

cruel people who are feared genuinely do not care.

for the sake of demonstration,

joffery is an edgy shithead, and not a person one would fear outside of consequences.

Bronn is a cruel character, and he doesnt give a shit. What he does is entirely self-serving. This is a good cruel character. And even though many seem to understand him, and a lot of shitheads like him in the show, it is clearly shown bronn is NOT moral because he thinks it is right, it just serves him well. He is Egoist.

Create Egoist characters, not Shitheads who hate everyone.

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>>53210692
Holy shit thank you for that picture. I was trying to create a character along those lines.

Ima steal that shit.

>>53204419

>Caligula was edgy

When you grow up surrounded by scheming nobles who accused and murdered your father, two brothers and your mother to climb over their corpses to lick the feet of your creepy, paranoid great uncle then you have every right to treat them like shit. Especially when the only reason they talked to you was to try to get you to say something that would get you killed.

His cruelty was reserved mainly for the upper classes who, funnily enough, wrote the history books.

>>53198812
A cruel character should be one who does cruel things without trying to justify it. They should be confident and sure in what they're doing. If they try to justify it to someone else, or if they being to doubt their own actions but still do them, then that's when it becomes edgy.

>>53198839
How the fuck is Joffrey not edgy? Joffrey is DEFINED by his edginess.

I like to think a Traveller character I play is cruel but not edgy. an old sociopathic bitter scientist who has a thirst for knowledge and understanding.
she is cruel by her methods.

Need to figure out the side effects of a theoretical new drug? strap a person down and inject them and observe, awake is best because you also can see the mental effects if any.

replacing military with cyborg bodies powered by brains to reduce casualties, well those homeless don't need their brains they have already wasted their lives. solves homelessness and combat deaths with one solution.

Justification for ones cruelty as necessary to do good.

>>53214520
Nah that's pretty edgy.

I'd offer up Jane from Firefly as a good example. He's funny, a little dumb, has family and connections (not just a bitter angsty loner), but he's also violent and unscrupulous, almost to the point of betraying his friends.

I'd hazard that most adventure RPG characters would be "cruel but not edgy" if they were in a film or novel, simply because there's no moral hazard to the player when slaying NPC's.

>>53198812
A "desperate times call for desperate measures" character

>>53207208
In his mind the cruelty he committed was less than the cruelty of the ancien regime. To him, the secret royalist sympathizers or just those who weren't committed to the cause of the revolution had to be killed or at least made so afraid that they would never attempt to undermine the cause. He felt that the Revolution and what it could accomplish both in France and the rest of the world was worth more than the lives of even thousands of his countrymen if their resolve was not aligned with his.

>>53207208
People find it difficult to fully understand even their closest friends. How do you expect to understand the inner machinations of a man who's been dead for 220 years?

>>53212985
Joffrey is a spoilt child, he's not edgy per say. Rather he lacks limits and have no tolerance for people not following his wishes.

>>53198839
He fucked a prostitute to death with a staff. That's edge personified.

>>53206161
Wasn't he just mad with good PR?

>>53220964
That's just being sexually adventurous

>>53198812
read some parker novels.

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>>53198812
You could just run them as a soldier or other such "Duty above all" as a way to justiy cruelty (in the eyes of others that is) to them all cruelty is just an extension of duty

>>53198812 (OP)
Low empathy. They aren't actively malicious, but they really aren't good with considering other people. They would focus on their own well-being in a fight even though someone else is dying, take an artifact that someone really needed and keep it because they like it. They're cruel, but they aren't trying at all, and therefore, would not be edgy.