Points and Power Levels

>In matched play, your points will be capped across the whole game. So if you’re planning to summon units to the battlefield, you will need to set points aside to do this.

Lame.

>>53198205
finally

>>53198155
> in the future, points for units could change without invalidating existing books – so if one unit or weapon starts to dominate tournaments, or certain units don’t seem to be carrying their weight in competitive games, we can address the balance.
That's pretty neat - looks like they actually intend to give a shit about balance and actively fix things on a fairly continuous basis

>>53198205
GET FUCKED DAEMONS

>>53198155
-New mission type, Ambush, with imbalanced teams
-Handful of point costs for space marines, close to current values
-Summoning units requires you to have points set aside before the game, no infinite summoning
-They predict that 2,000pts will be appropriate for a 2-hour match
-All point values in a single book which can be updated independently from codices

>explain that you now need points to spare if you plan to summon units
>don't have points on datasheets because you don't need them in-game

This sounds contradictory.

>>53198155
>7 point anything
Oh boy it's volkite serpenta all over again, can't wait to never have a round number ever again!

Note that it's not just my autism, but the fact you can't do anything with the spare points means for all intents and purposes a 7 point weapon costs 10, as you're either 3 points under the agreed upon points limit or 2 points over after buying a 5 point upgrade such as a melta bomb.

Really hope we get a Faction Focus today.

>>53198238
You need them for matched play.

>>53198266
Maybe Melta bombs will end up costing 3?

>>53198266
>Other things that cost 3 points

>>53198210
>>53198226
But muh genestealer cult.

I guess it works for sigmar, but I'm in the middle of building a GSC built around summoning. Kinda sucks, but I'm not that salty.

>>53198238
Points ARE only ever used at listbuilding and will be in the main book so that GW can update all armies at once. It's going to be great for balance between armies - hopefully.

>>53198268
Faction Focus is every other day. We'll get it tomorrow.

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>>53198205

>>53198286
>>53198293
Well, fingers crossed. If pistols are getting more than half of their cost reduced then I could see it happening elsewhere.

>>53198309
summoning still has value. You can call on a unit of the type you need at that moment in the battle, essentially tailoribg your list on the fly.

There's just none of the bullshit of having a 1000 point advantage by the time turn 3 begins.

>>53198313
But the main selling point of stuff like demons, according to them, is being able to choose if you want to summon a killy unit or something to hold a point for a while, buying that on the go, effectively.
That means you need to know how much everything costs beforehand, decide on a point buffer to keep free for those unirs and then need to know how much things cost as you summon them. Say I keep 500 points free to spend on summons and want to summon 2 units. I need to know if they sum up to less than 500 or not.

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>In matched play, your points will be capped across the whole game. So if you’re planning to summon units to the battlefield, you will need to set points aside to do this.

>The points for units don’t appear on the datasheet but will be elsewhere in the same book. This is because you don’t need them to play if you don’t want, which frees up room to include more rules for weapons on the datasheet. It also means that, in the future, points for units could change without invalidating existing books – so if one unit or weapon starts to dominate tournaments, or certain units don’t seem to be carrying their weight in competitive games, we can address the balance.

>>53198349
Yep, it's basically deep strike plus getting to retroactively pick what you had in reserve. That's still quite potent, as long as it's costed appropriately.

>>53198349
True, I'm just concerned about the insane points cost of most of the GSC's good gear. I wonder if you'll be setting aside points for the base cost of the unit, or for every single upgrade.

Summoning could really bog down a game if you suddenly decide you need a particular unit for a role, then you have to cram in the upgrades into what points you have available.

>>53198368
their point was that they aren't needed to play a game.

not that you never need them during a game.

>>53198388
Why wouldn't you plan ahead of time for what summonable units you can fit inside your unused points in order to have statblocks ready?

>>53198411
Because the point of summoning is that you decide on what you actually summon mid-game. The prepared points are just to decide on jow much you are going to summon, not what.

>>53198205
Well, goodbye my traitor Guard, no daemons for you then.

>>53198388
presumably you play points for the unit and its upgrades. you're essentially just delaying some of your list building.

in practice it shouldn't bog things down much, id wager standard practice quickly becomes to prewrite up a selection of units to choose from that fit into the summoning points.
Say you set aside 300 for summoning, so you'd have already listed say 4 150 point units to chose from that fill different roles with the minis you have. Then its really just the same as regular reserves.

>>53198205
>Oh no I actually need to play by the rules now!
Yeah, so lame. I hate not defying core concepts of game design.

>>53198425
Right, but normally summoning powers list what units you can summon with it. If I left 100pts spare, I could work out ahead of time what 6-7 options of units and upgrades I could field inside that number of points, or inside of 50pts to do two small summons. Clearly there will be times when you want something you didn't write out beforehand, but this would at least cover the most common cases.

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>Have 64 Bloodletters for Daemonkin Blood point summoning...

Hmmm

>>53198425
right. but you still know ahead of time what minis you own and what builds you can make with them in a certain amount of points.

>>53198411
Kind of kills the appeal of summoning, IMO. You'd have to pre-crunch all sorts of numbers with all the wargear and units GSC can summon

>>53198459
>implying it wasnt playing by the rules before
Adds good flavor, too

>>53198228
>Handful of point costs for space marines, close to current values
Hu, no. One Tac-Marine is now 13 points instead of 14, Grav-pistol were 15pts and are now 7pts, AND said to be the cheapest option (bye bye 5pts flamers and stormbolters), multi-melta was 10pts and is now 27.
Otherwise correct list, nice summary.

>>53198456
>Then its really just the same as regular reserves.
Yeah, but is that all we care to see out of summoning? Seems lackluster

>>53198494
>implying getting a whole army worth of free units on top of your army is not ignoring core rules

I bet you also thought that the Gladius and WarConvo getting hundreds of free points was also perfectly good design.

>>53198494
you'd be crunching all those numbers during list building anyway.

>>53198515
So much flavour in spamming razorbacks though!!!

>>53198473
So why not let me have them as part of the army as normal?

Summoning better be really reliable.

>>53198514
well yeah, its useful and still fluffy.
but isn't abusable bullshit anymore.

Well that killed my interest in summoning anything- it just sounds like deepstriking with more steps.

>>53198529
I spammed Razorbacks before formations existed. They're cool tanks.

>>53198530
Element of surprise and adaptability. It's basically better Reserves with a harder way of getting there to compensate.

>>53198515
>follows established rules
>ignores rules

Sure, you may feel like it was broken, but it's legal. Also, I dont feel like summoning, which was by no means a guaranteed thing in 7th, was anywhere near as bad as ultracheese formations.

>>53198530
you probably won't need to roll, you'll just have to deploy within range of a psyker... so the only way to stop it will be to kill every psyker on the daemon side

>>53198501
Ah, my bad. I don't play or play against SM very often, so I was going off of their statement that "The full squad totals up at a similar number of points to what it costs today." Apologies for inaccuracies!

>>53198553
You don't understand anon, he once got beat by a daemon summoning list that got lucky- that means they are terribad!

>>53198548
I guess this is what we're left with, which is ok.

Just ok.

>>53198553
The entire game is balanced and built around the fact that everything has a point cost to it and points dedicating the size of armies. Ignoring the very foundation of what the game is based on is skipping past everything in place intended to have a somewhat fair and balanced game.

>>53198567
And they pretty much do have to get lucky, too, or they can fall flat on their ass.

>>53198576
Have you considered that the points cost of the units and upgrades in summoning armies is what balances the ability to summon?

>>53198205
Non native speaker here, doesn't that just mean you will have to wait to lose some stuff before starting to replenish your forces? Like you can't go above your starting point limit at any point.
Reading the thread it seems I'm misreading it...

>>53198605
No, it means you set aside points, bringing only 1500 to the table in a 2000pt game, for instance.

>>53198494
>kills the appeal of summoning when I have to actually pay for the units
>new rules need it slightly but make it still the best possible form of deep strike available in game on demand with the ability to pick what you want retroactively
>it was totally fair guize you just need to know how to beat it gosh!

>>53198557
I can accept that.

I guess I'll have to stick my battle psyker squad into a Chimera or something until they are needed for summoning duties.

>>53198530
>So why not let me have them as part of the army as normal?
well you can. you aren't forced to summon, its just an option.

>>53198605
No, it's stating that of you have a 1500pt game and want summoning you field say 1000pts and keep 500 left over to summon ie you don't get to just start adding an extra army for nothing.

>>53198205
They're going to make individual daemon units broken as fuck to compensate now, watch summoning bonuses be way too good and easily facilitate stopping entire armies from shooting or something

>>53198602
That would be the case if the summoning units would be unbelievably bad outside of it, but most of them can still put up a fight and function in a general sense even without any summons.

>>53198633
A mediocre option that can be better spent on other things.

>>53198631
>he thinks armies like GSC are the pinnacle and would remain competitve in 7th without ability to summon.

> tfw scatbikes are 20 apiece to be cheaper than melta
Thanks geedubs!

>>53198633
>well you can.

So I can just take daemon allies with Guard?

>>53198648
With how it's working in AoS, daemons are relatively mediocre on their own but get buffed to fuck with characters. Bloodletters can go from 1 attack each to 4 just through characters and up to 5 with blood tithe points.

>>53198658
We don't know the costs of summoned units yet but I doubt any of them are so bad that they'd only ever be playable if you got them stapled on for free.

>>53198678
Scatter lasers now wound Marines on a 3+ instead of 2+, they're totally nerfed to shit now!

>>53198425
Have mini-lists drawn up for the handful of summoned units you may want, check it when you pick your summon and then bring it on.

>>53198683
probably, you can now after all. we don't know anything about the new ally rules yet though so don't take it as certain

>>53198542
5e blood angels?

>>53198566
no problem anon
>>53198569
if every unit and mechanic could be "just okay" we would have a perfect game

>>53198710
So I'll just end up with Guard painted as traitors and a some daemons good for nothing?

>>53198687
With how the psychic phase works to be more generally reliable, I doubt that daemons are going to be hurting for buffs in 8th. At the expense of summoning new units they'll be able to return killed units from the warp or some shit

>>53198747
if you get lucky, you might even get to deep strike those demons, oh the possibilities!

>>53198733
4th + 5th vanilla. I got some of the multi melta turrets from when they were a free upgrade and twin linked.

>>53198786
Deep into a trash bin.

Just give us traitor guard, GW, I'll pay you good money for it.

>>53198676
You're right, I'm sorry for picking on you poor demons players who had to settle for just being in the top tier and not being the kings of cheese. I'll be over here with my fucking Orks and Nids praying for your terrible loss.

>>53198834
Fuck off, crybaby. You're literally complaining about an army that's strong- just strong- not unbeatable, that isnt even reliably so.

>>53198862
But anon, every army should suck as much as mine.

>The points for units don’t appear on the datasheet but will be elsewhere in the same book. This is because you don’t need them to play if you don’t want, which frees up room to include more rules for weapons on the datasheet. It also means that, in the future, points for units could change without invalidating existing books – so if one unit or weapon starts to dominate tournaments, or certain units don’t seem to be carrying their weight in competitive games, we can address the balance.
I'm okay with this.

>basic Marines now cost 65 blank
>Crusaders will cost 70 because they can take CCWs as an option and carry more special/heavy weapons

CALLING IT NOW

>>53198878
>40k v8.01 -Tactical Marines have been reduced from 13 points per model to 10. We hope this will allow players to use this unit at all.

>>53198826
> GW redo basic IG
> Replace cadians and catachan miniatures by a loyalist regiment of their choice and a traitor force.
> Both made so they can be easily converted to the other side.

>>53198893
Crusaders won't exist as anything but assault marines without jump packs.

>>53198920
They confirmed on Facebook that they're still around as a separate unit.

>>53198893
how would that be a problem? I mean it seems fair to me that they cost more if they have more options

>>53198806
ah, the good old days, I remember the last 'Ard boyz tournament and blood angel razorback spam swept our local prelims.

>>53198932
Shouldn't those costs be included in the options rather than the base cost?

>>53198932
Black templar players are the sort that thought they were special throughout 5th ed for being able to take 2 heavy weapons on their 5 man terminator squads, not realising it was because that was a thing every terminator squad could do in 4th ed which is when their codex was written. They're pretty stupid and expect a lot for their second founding irrelevant chapter.

>>53198567
It was because if that cancerous little shit, Tzeentch. Daemons would have been fine if not for him.

Seriously though, I was only forced to summon because half of my army was constantly wiped out before I even got within attack range. At the end of the day daemons are just t3, 5+ save footsloggers with no ranged weapons.

I'm afraid how they'll handle them considering summoning got neutered, attacks can now ignore invulnerable saves, monsters get worse over time, initiative and superior weapon skill is no longer a thing, high toughness isn't as potent anymore and overwatch is stronger. These are all changes that daemons won't look forward to.

If my slaanesh/nurgle daemons are shit I'll play Orks, if both are shit or if melee is still shit then I'm fucked.

>>53198975
not if the option is a fucking Land Raider Crusader as dedicated transport

So what may a rubric marine cost now? 30?

>>53198155
GIVE ME 8TH EDITION NOW!!!!!!
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I don't want to play another game of 7th in my life. Everything revealed so far sounds good to great and I can't fucking wait to play it. Waiting another month and a half is suffering..

>>53199029
You have to look at it from a designers point of view. If they kept summoning the same and buffed the units you were summoning shit would get out of hand real fucking quick. Now that it's in line with regular list building, though still arguably better than regular reserves, they can actually make the units themselves not suck ass. I mean, it's GW, so maybe not, but a man can dream.

>every unit now has their own unique rules so you don't have to remember loads of universal rules

What on earth do they mean by this?

>literally "Power levels"

what the fuck ever

>>53199101
USR are now rules on the datasheets with slightly different names from eachother.

>>53199047
Which does not mean jackshit until we know how Transports work.

>>53198494

It's fun flavorwise, but to me it always seemed a pain in the ass as well because you don't know what you'll need to buy or bring. Tervigon has/had the same problem.

There are places where the system has its kinks in AoS, like the Ring of Immortality, but I'll still take it over the current one simply because it's more structured.

>>53199101
Instead of
>It says here my skitarii have "zealot". What the fuck is "zealot".
We have
>it says here my skitarii get rerolls in the first round of combat
So you don't have to be constantly be checking the brb. It sounds counter intuitive but it's really quite convenient.

>>53199128

Imaginably as simply as the AoS skydwarf ones do.

>>53199141

Not really though, when my DE opponent turns up and says he's got Shrieking Grenades or whatever I'm not going to have a clue what he means. If he says Furious Charge or whatever, I know it.

>>53199122
Was this supposed to keep book keeping to a minimum or maximise it? The USR weren't exactly perfect but using that as quick guide is easier to tell what a unit/gun can do than having to actually own an entirely seperate codex just to find out what bladestorm does and why it's just rending but for every basic Eldar infantry weapon.

>>53199137
I feel like that issue is only made worse by have to allot points and create mini summoning lists for every possible need. Particularly in armies like GSC

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>>53198155
>see the sample dataslate
>think the power level was the new points system
>die inside just a little bit
>read this
>detailed points are a go

>>53199188
The point of it is to make the datasheets quick reference and force all players to carry around rulebooks for their armies.

>>53199094
Oh, I don't care about summoning. It was Tzeentch who really abused it and built up a Tau tier reputation for the whole faction as a result.

I'm just pointing out they're removing/nerfing everything daemons rely on, they're going to give them something new but I'm worried they're going to give them something shit/unfun.
Like the other guy said, AoS daemons forced to have characters hanging around their units like a three legged race or turn to shit, just like how synapse works for tyranids right now.

>>53198205
As someone who plays with daemons, I think this restriction on summoning is a good thing. Free things are bad for any game and often result in snowballing effects that are impossible to balance. You can still summon, you just have to pay for the shit you summon.

>>53199152
I specifically meant the upside of having a LRC in the Dedicated Transport role rather than Heavy Support. It's only going to be a serious advantage if there'll be easily accessible things giving benefits to Dedicated Transports, since saving Heavy Support slots isn't a big deal.

>>53199183
The main issue are the more obscure or possibly complex rules that often have to be checked in the book. Saves time overall.

>>53198205
Summoned daemons now function like an allied detachment.

>>53199233
Yeah, I spoke a little too soon, just looked at the example datasheet. That is pretty easy to read, though the lack of point costs on anything feels a little alien. Someone mentioned that point costs are just gonna be on a separate page now?

>>53198266
OH NO I CAN'T SPEND THESE LAST 3 POINTS!

It's 100% your autism. There's no sense being concerned over 3 points.

>>53199183
But he's not going to say he has shrieking grenades, he's going to say his units have +1 strength on the charge, which is flavoured as being shrieking grenades.
Codices currently say "This unit has Stikkbomms", and then you have to flick to the back of the book to find the profile for stikkbomms and all it says are "Stikkbomms; a unit equipped with stikkbomms has assault grenades", and then you have to open the brb and find the page on assault grenades to find "Assault grenades: This unit ignores the initiative penalty for charging".
Now all it would say on the ork boyz datasheet is "Stikkbomms; this unit ignores the initiative penalty for charging." and stikkbomms would be consistent throughout the codex.

It cuts out the middleman. Instead of having to learn that skikkbomms=assault grenades=no initiative penalty, you just have to learn skikkbomms=no initiative penalty. Combine this with the fact that they're trying to fit as much as possible on the datasheets instead of them being 90% a picture of the model, and it's easy to see how this saves a lot of time, especially if you're new to 8ed or the game as a whole.

Look at AoS datasheets, instead of having to flick backwards and forwards through to book fifty times per battle you just need a printout of the datasheet sitting there to know everything about the unit, and if your opponent is curious they won't need to have much if any foreknowledge to be able to understand it at a glance.

>>53199192

To me it still feels better than having to buy who knows how many Termagants because your Tervigon could conceivably spawn them every single turn.

>>53199305
>it's totally ok to be over the points limit!
>the points LIMIT
Fuck off, cheater.

If I ever played a game with you is have to double check your list. That's the kind guy you are.

>>53199192
>GSC cheese is exposed and expunged
>GSC players instantly transform to the same bitching babies that regular nidplayers are
Can't make this up.

>>53198494
>>53199137
So crunch a handful of options out in advance designed for certain roles. If something new comes along and you end up crunching something else, write it down and now you have that one pre-crunched for later.

Sometimes I think tabletop games just aren't for everybody.

>>53199341
he would talking about being 2 points under you tremendous faggot

>>53199367
>was
>3

>>53199341
Dude, chill out. Whenever we have a game where somebody is a few points over we just give the other player a free upgrade or something to balance it out. Getting autistic over the points of an autogun isn't an easy way to keep friends. If somebody is literally always a few points over, maybe ask them to start going under (WHICH YOU CAN DO), and if people are 3 points over when they've taken that 2pts tau relic call them out on that, but +-4 or 5 points is hardly cheating if you're not in a goddamn tournament.

Oh and if you but the 7 point upgrade for two different squads it's 14 points. And if that's not close enough to a nice round five than fucking give five sergeants grav pistols for 35 points. It's not difficult to deal with odd upgrade points.

>>53199438
If he's that worried, he can just toss an extra marine into some squad for 13 and have it even out to 20

>>53199358
>JUST came out
>already being invalidated by a new edition
I dunno, I kind of feel for them.

It's a shame they will no longer make the local tau player cry big salty tears.

>>53199341
>tell friend i'm playing with i'm 2 points over
>raise the game to 502 point game
>he was 3 points under so he can take a 5 point upgrade
>problem solved

>>53198501
it makes sense that the multimelta is 27 now seeing that a marine can still move and fire it on a 4+ ontop of -4 rend

>>53199460
The coming riptide nerf will be the third nuclear bomb on the weebs.

>>53199358
GSC were a mistake in the first place. The models were nice but they were such unfun nonsense to play against.

>>53198266
Just use power level then.

:^)

>>53199438
>Getting autistic over the points of an autogun isn't an easy way to keep friends.

I agree. If you can't fit it into your limit, why not drop it? Why you have to be autistic about it and force it in?

>+-4 or 5 points is hardly cheating if you're not in a goddamn tournament.

You're assuming it's something small like smoke launchers or something, and not a 35pts. mastery level for their psyker when they got 31pts. left in the list. Or a 505pts. super-heavy in a 2000pts. game of 30k (LoW is max 25% of point total).

>>53199199

they said detailed points are the next post yesterday

>>53199541
I, as a tau player, eagerly await the riptide nerf. I look forward to being able to use it in moderately casual games without being an asshat.

>>53199460
I think they will still trash tau seeing that they will still be able to teleport 3 inches behind you and unsheathe their mining hammer

>>53199477
>he wasn't 3 points under
>he gets that 5 point upgrade
>now it's a 505 point game
>your choice of upgrade is also 5 points
>now it's 507 points

Or you could just, I dunno, either calm your autism and settle for a 497 points list, or if you'll suffer a nervous breakdown if your list isn't 500p exactly then just start re-shuffling shit until it is.

But that'd be nice and considerate and sticking to the limits agreed upon beforehand. So fuck that, let's just grab whatever and then have the opponent adjust on the fly to whatever limits ended up suiting you.

>>53198678
tfw we don't know what scatbikes cost

>>53199560
>You're assuming...

Or that's what he's after, he's just waving around a squad special weapon hoping no one will notice the murdertank.

>>53198375
>Matched play
>Narrative play

They've said this multiple times

>>53199183
He can explain the rule to you, or even show you the datasheet

>>53198213
This is my favorite part about 8th thus far. Patching issues rather than throwing around supplements and flailing around like idiots is a pretty big step forward.

>>53199604

I've always really liked how XWing and SW Armada handled this: the player with fewer points has the initiative (goes first in ties or activates a unit first respectively).

It turned your exact point total into another thing you had to think about in your list. Do you really need that 3-point melta bomb more than you need first turn?

>>53199477
Just use Narative Power level at this point

>>53199604
Point is the upgrade is something which GW decided isn't worth 10 points, but if you want to use it it takes up 10 points. So why take it and not something which GW decided IS worth 10 points?

>>53199315
AoS has tons of similar looking things that are different. Greenskinz have like 6 shields that all do different things

I'm suprised nobody is talking about the biggest advantages of summoning.

Summoning allows you to ignore FOC slots. I.e. you could fill up all your 3 fast attack slots and then summon more fast attack units.

In addition, if army benefits works similarly to AoS, summoning allows you to break the keyword restrictions while allowing you to keep the army benefits. I.e. you are playing a SLAANESH army but you need more punch, so you summon a bloodthirster. By AoS rules (and likely 8th ed rules) you get to keep your access to SLAANESH commmand traits and army rules as they are declared at the start of the game.

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>>53198471
Not brining 128. Not having an additional 32 for summoning

>>53198205
Eat shit WAACnigger

Exactly what they did for AoS points and summoning. All good stuff.


>>53198826
They did ages ago, that's what Renegades & Heretics with 'militia training' are.

>>53199809
Yes, but my understanding of the new FOC system was that the more slots you can fill, the better. I assume there will be a FOC for a lot of fast attack choices.

I wanna see Necronnnnns

>>53199779
It doesn't though. It only takes up 10pts if it's the only thing that isn't a multiple of five. The rest of your list could come to, say, 1992pts, in which case you're only losing out on one point. Maybe it comes to 1993pts and you're rounding out perfectly.

Then consider if you're taking more of them. If you've got four pistols in your army that's 28pts, if they were 10pts each they would be 40pts.

You're assuming one specific situation and ignoring all others for some reason.

>>53199905
I just wanna see if my Scarabs are good again.

>>53199882
Lost and the Damned hasn't been playable for several editions and the FW list is an FW list, so the chance it'll get updated to 8th this decade is next to nothing.

>>53199904
>the more slots you can fill, the better
>Marine player fields 30 marines in 5 man teams with razorbacks
>"Very good, here, have some benefits."
>IG player fields 110 dudes in 2 platoons.
>"That's no good, -10 forge points on narration."

>>53198826
Why don't you just play with the Guard codex? Ally in CSM/daemon elements if needed?

>>53199921
So now this supposed list isn't coming to 497 points? Great cool, at least we solved that problem.

>>53199922
I want to know if my Orks are still total shit!

>>53199341
I was talking about being 3 points under. How did you get that I thought it was okay to go over? Is reading comprehension really that foreign to you?

>>53199904
There may be cases where the FOC slots may not suit your needs.

A FOC with many fast attack slots may require you to include a number of elites as tax or you may want a command benefit from a FOC that may not have as many slots as you would like and you are unable/unwilling to fill up another FOC.

These are just hypothetical examples and depending on what kind of FOCs are available, summoning's ability to disregard the FOC may or may not come in handy. However, knowing that it is an option is always good if you ever encounter such an edge case.

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>>53199993

>>53199968
Not him, but imperial/chaos alliance is virtually unplayable.

>>53199937
Pretty sure FW stuff is confirmed to be getting updated at the same time as everything else. Your Traitor Guard will be ready to go.

>>53199998
With that attitude, they will always be shit for you.

>>53200016
Nice! Almost had to admit you weren't following the reply chain there.

>>53200033
I know CSM is in a bad spot righ now, but isn't that a bit overstatement?

>>53199993
>combi-weapon 7pts
>power weapon 12pts
>lightning claw 17pts
>power fist 22pts
>chainfist 27pts
Ooooii vey!
It's the terminator melee weapon list all over again!

>>53200069
With that attitude, they will always be shit for everyone.

The step to fixing a problem is acknowledging there is one.

>>53200149
Looks like I'll be playing using power levels from now on. I hated the Chaos terminator equipment list and now it's spread all over the game.

>>53198155
>marines are now 13ppm

Jesus. Sisters better be cheaper because there's no way in hell a Marine is only 1 point better with all the shit they get.

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>>53200194
Numbers are too hard!

>>53200308
>500 point game
>list comes to 501.3 points
>cheapest upgrade is 8.54 points
WHAT DO YOU DROP?!

>>53199549
yeah, mostly they either all but win with cult ambush turn 1, or don't do enough and their whole army dies to shooting. not very fun.

>>53200147
because of come the apocalypse and no great synergies.

>>53199341
>Guy talks about being 3 points under the limit
>Massive sperg rants about cheating and going over the limit

Wtf is wrong with you

>>53200147
that's not the problem, especially since CSM are playable with the Legion rules. Imperium and Chaos literally can't ally. As in 'it's forbidden RAW'.

>>53200333
The cheapest upgrade/model that is not vitale to my strategy.
Next question.

>>53198266
Marines are 13 points... 7 point upgrade puts them at 20... pretty even number

The ex-MTG player in me likes the idea of having a points bank for summoning whatever you may need in a "sideboard."

Makes summoning less of a no-brainer and a decent gamble.

>>53200399
He's that WAAC guy that everyone avoids playing pickup games against.

>>53198226
more like get fucked tzeentch

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>>53200429
This is time of Khorne.

>>53200333
Change an upgrade that costs 12.93 points to a one that costs 10.18pts.

>>53200423
Me and friends play about once a month, multiple times myself or friends have been 3-5 points over, no one cares cause its just about fun... I mean I play nids so im hardly in it for the winning but yeah that guy up there seems like a massive cunt

>>53198349
>>53198368
Something people forget is that you can re-summon dead demon units. Effectively giving you a unit that can respawn several times.

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>>53198155
>tfw spawning termagants cost points

>>53200174
The second step to fixing a problem is obviously to complain about how there is a problem.

Come on, anon, you are obviously in no position to fix orks. Even if a GW employee is lurking this board for ideas, your post does not help them understand what could be done to improve orks. All they would get from your post would be that orks are weak and underpowered aka white noise.

The next step to solving a problem is to identify the problem and propose a solution.

This may seem tedious, seeing how ork players have often discussed improvements to things such as mob rule and terrible random charts, but it is even more critical that you discuss such issues more often, especially in this age when GW is paying more attention to the community. This increased discussion may even catch the eye of a GW game designer who is (unlike you and I) in a position to fix the problem.

If you feel you have the attitude to help improve the game for the ork players out there, don't half ass it. Simply taking the first step and admiting there is a problem does not help solve anything. An alcoholic can admit he has a problem and still drink their life away. No matter how futile it may seem, anon, you need to step up and take the next step to becoming part if the solution. I believe in you, ork anon.

If you actually defend 7th edition, you are a garbage human being.

I'm convinced that the people who like 7th are WAAC fags aren't sure how they will be able to keep their lame armies together.

>>53199560
>>53199604
I reiterate, it's two points. If it's an eldar waacfag using it to buy something he really shouldn't be able to, or a tau player who has tonnes of 3 and 4 point equipment, call them out, but if they're orks and nids who'll wither be 23 points under and missing a powerklaw or 2 points over with, getting stressed is just retarded. If it's not a competitive game, just get over it and if it is a competitive game, holy shit they're playing orks or nids, you're going to win if you gave them 50 extra points.

>>53200741
I'm sure those people will find a new way to build some cancer armies

>>53200539
Imagine it like this: The Tervigon is like the Necron Monolith. It enables units in reserves to enter the table through it.

I actually thought that it would make a good alternative to the spawning rule. Just make it a transport, which doesn't actually transport anything, but allows (certain) units in reserves to enter the game through it (as if it was a transport), representing it spawning them onto the field. And the limited number of them represents that it doesn't have infinite mass.

And if it's killed, the unit in reserves can enter play normally through the table edge.

>>53200415
That's 72 points because only sergeants can buy pistols.

>MFW I can bring Tzeentch and not have to immediately tell my opponent there's no summoning in the list

>>53200741
Any WAACfag worth his salt can build the optimal army regardless of system. Cry some more faggot.

>>53200812
I dont care. Whatever they bring, I can kill it with enough lasguns.

Blob of 50 guardsman shoots enough to kill 10 marines. Thats 1/6 of my army. Bring it on.

>>53200806
>wither be 23 points under and missing a powerklaw or 2 points over with

So drop a fucking boy and upgrade a shoota to a missile launcher to even it out, or something. You're still living in this fantasy world where upgrades exist in a vacuum.

>>53200861

>50 guardsmen rapid firing with an order kill half to a third of their points value in Marines

Not exactly chilling, you must admit.

>>53200861
As one IG player to another: no you can't. The "wall of light" is a myth if you do the math. The only things you can hope to kill in any significant number with lasguns are other T3 low Sv models.

>>53200891
At least they hit as hard as a 10-man scatbike squad now.

>>53198205
t. Tzeentch Twat

>>53200968
>The "wall of light" is a myth
The wall of what now?

But yeah. They cant. In 8th the murder will come from heavy bolters and more heavy bolters. S5 is in very good place since it can scratch everything on 5+ that has less than T10. 12 shots of 4+ HB will shave a wound of an dreadnought or leman russ. Not exactly bad from anti-infantry weapon.

>>53198155
>In matched play, your points will be capped across the whole game. So if you’re planning to summon units to the battlefield, you will need to set points aside to do this.
So Daemons that actually can summon without peril has no reason to summon anymore?

>>53201030
wall of light = massed flashlights

>>53201037
If you cant figure it out why summoning is still decent then I really cant even spell it out for you.

Its having reserve of right tools for the job.

>>53200834
>I actually thought that it would make a good alternative to the spawning rule
Might as well. Tervigon spawning is a meme and a bad one at that

So if marines are 13 points per model and Sargents still cost 10 points extra and all this is 5 power levels, then we can guess that 1 power level is worth approximately 15 points.
With this in mind we can roughly estimate that a base unit if Rubrics will cost about 120 points and that extra rubrics will be around 18 points.
If that's the case then holy shit Rubrics might actually be good this edition.

>>53201030
An old 40k meme that insisted lasguns were effective if you had half the board covered in Guardsmen. Unfortunately, those of us who actually play the game know that against anything as tough as Marines in the game, you may as well not even roll for the lasguns. Because first you subtract 50% of the lasguns you're firing (BS), then subtract 66% from that number (Toughness), then subtract 66% from that number (Sv), and you're left with a whole lot of nothing.

So against MEQs I've long since gotten used to the idea that all lasgun wielding guardsmen are nothing more than extra wounds for the heavy and special weapon. Not a genuine threat.

>>53201122
Takes 18 shots to kill a marine. I know. I have rolled with IG long enough. I have also played long anough to know that always roll the lasguns. For some reason people dont really count on them. But you can so easily mass them that they can be the difference that kills the marine squad or not.

This was very true in 5th edition.

But I'm pretty sure the Leman Russ is the MVP of the guard in 8th. Holy balls you can make great all-arounder from it. But then again. Is D6 battlecannon shots better than 8 shots from exterminator autocannon?

>>53201167
Depends on the target.

>>53201167
>8 shots
Won't it be four?

>>53200846
Pink horrors splitting is no longer cancer. Dare I say that Tzeench is balanced in 8th ed?

>>53201199
Heavy 4, Twin-linked baby.
So Heavy 8 now.

>>53201197
Rumour was that autocannons will be d3 wounds too but with -1 to save. Cant be arsed to math against Battlecannon but with that autocannon is really really good weapon.

>>53201167
Given the volume of Termenators I've had cooked to death by massed gaurd flash light fire I'm going to agree with this. Wall of light is real. You burry 5 terminators in 50 wounds and I'm going fail at least 5 of those. Is it the best option? At the time maybe. Maybe. Depends on the situation. If the heavy guns are busy with other problems then dealing with the terminator squad with a mass of flashlight fire works.

I don't get all the hullabaloo over the battlecannon. It gets 3.5 average shots. Hits on 4's if you're stationary, or 5's if you moved. That's just shy of 2 hits stationary, or basically 1 hit moving.

>>53201224
Unless they go back to it being a regular autocannon, in which case it would be 4.

>>53201285
>Rumour was that autocannons will be d3 wounds too

Seems a bit much. Quad cannons, hydras, stalkers, etc., would be murder. Maybe certain autocannons, like the predator autocannon?

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>>53201064
>>53200834
>Tervigon spawning is a meme and a bad one at that
>meme
I'm not sure that you know what this word means.

But yeah, this would make it a good alternative to unreliable outflanking. Especially if they could spawn Hormagaunts in 8th... Because then, I'd be interested in buying at least one of those critters, since I never use termagants otherwise.

>>53198349
It's like you haven't even read the GSC summoning rules eh?

Because that is what happens already. They summon any unit, armed with whatever they want.

>>53201456
You see, the whole summoning requires points thing will probably work the same as in AoS, so setting up new units costs points, but reinforcing existing units back to their starting strength is free. I also assume (read: hope) that Tervigons will now simply gain the ability to fill nearby Termagant units back up. That'd also work pretty well without making the thing worthless and without it breaking the game.

Guarantee nobody posting that the summoning changes are good because they're 'flexible' actually plays an army that uses summoning.

>>53201102
I'm assuming that power levels take in to account an average set up of equipment. So the sergeant has a pistol, weapon, or combi weapon, a marine has a special weapon and a heavy weapon in the squad. And then the rubrics are outfitted normally because of less options, so inferno bolters, one flamer, and a cannon if at 10 models.

So your estimate will need adjustment. And we dont know prices of any other equipment, either.

>>53201531
This. They also probably only think tzeench players can summon, as judged by the response to the 1st reply.

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>>53201531
I play GSC, and am really okay with these rules. People who complain dont understand balance and are tards

>>53201531
It all depends on how it'll work in practice and especially for non-Chaos armies.

>>53201531
For sure, the people that are congratulating the change are the ones that have been on the receiving end of summon spam.

>>53201577
Tzeentch is pretty much the only one who can do it reliable though because of the high amount of dice. Sure, you could also summon if you run some slaanesh crackwhores but it will be not realy enough to be noticed even if the new system would already be in place. You get like 1 unit a turn.

>>53198205
>>In matched play, your points will be capped across the whole game. So if you’re planning to summon units to the battlefield, you will need to set points aside to do this.


OH BABY. THIS EDITION JUST GETS BETTER AND BETTER. GET SHREKT DAEMON FAGS

>>53200531
Not any more.

In today's article.

>>53201560
Even then the fact that a base size Rubric Marine unit is only 3 power levels more expensive than a base sized tactical marine unit is quite encouraging, currently they cost twice as much base.

>>53201381
What you saw was a very lucky IG player rolling an exception. Not the rule. It typically takes 37 IG lasguns to kill a terminator. And now that termies have 2 wounds in 8th, 73 lasguns

Believe me I'm an IG player. Lasguns are trash in any quantity.

Hey, at least now they're open to rebalancing when something gets too powerful. Or doesnt sell enough. Oh your pyrovores suck? Here lets give them boosted range. Go buy 20!!

It will definitely be better than what we had, waiting 12 years for a good codex instead of a couple months at most for an update on bad rules.

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>>53201223
>inb4 they still split for free "cuz gotta sell dem models!"
>Tzeentch is still as cancerous as ever

>>53201594
>I play GSC

Good luck in 8th. GSC are going to need it with all of the changes so far.

Can't think of a single thing that benefits them.

>>53199029

You're shit. Mono Slaanesh daemons are my main and I've never had to resort to summoning (in fact how are you summoning efficiently with so few WCs?).

Invisibility. Learn it, love it. Seekers move on average 19" turn 1- that puts you in their deployment zone.

>>53201919
moving and firing heavy weapons

>>53201594
>People who complain dont understand balance and are tards

You have too big an opinion of yourself

>>53202043
Just what an army who's major mechanic is deep striking across the table instead of regular moving needs...

Also the ability of other armies to be able to bring their anti infantry weapons to bear against GSC after they re-position without much of penalty is NOT a boon I can tell you that. Especially now your models won't be returning (formations are dead)

>>53198471
Blood points are a completely different mechanic though, they could still be in place.
After all blue horrors still are and they're the real bullshit.

>>53202118
I would argue light armor in general is getting a few buffs. A 5+ save is no longer getting torn apart by bolters, and hiding behind cover gives you a 4+ or better against those shots. That's a nice bit of added survivability.

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>>53202042
>You're shit, I've never had to resort to summoning!
>but I abuse invisibility all day

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>>53201167

>It's worse against GEQ, about average against MEQ and very slightly better against TEQ and MC's.

So basically unless the exterminator becomes more expensive then the BC LRBT or the exterminator loses an auto cannon and stays 4 shots, the exterminator will be a stronger pick.

The true red-herring is that both are probably junk. If the exterminator ends up being str7 rend2 heavy 8 both it and the battlecannon end up only putting one to two wounds on every unit type in the game, with average rolls.

Having to roll for how many shots you get AND having to roll to-hit after really gutted the potential of the battlecannon.

>>53202239

>red-herring

Wew. Red-pill

>>53202218

>waaah my army is weak
>but I can't use the natural defenses built into it because if I did I'd have to turn in my smug card!

>>53198205
>tervigons still shit
What a surprise. Thanks, daemons.

Why is there always that guy who looks at a new ruleset and thinks "how can I build the most broken piece of shit army and bend the rules to favor me?"

Why can't we just have fluffy, fun armies that play the way their lore says?

Although, I think the introduction of keywords is going to heavily cut down on WAAC faggotry this edition.

Make tactical marines great again.

>>53202281
I'm saying it's OK for half my army to be blown away because I can just summon them back but at the same time it's necessary for me to summon them back to replace the army I've lost, it's just how the army plays.
>Summoning is scrub bullshit, nerf now!
>But using invisibility, one of the most complained about and abused powers in the game, is fine.
You don't see anything hypocritical about that?

Am I reading correctly there aren't really any lists anymore? Just field whatever as long as you have the points for it?

>>53202340

>Why is there always that guy who looks at a new ruleset and thinks "how can I build the most broken piece of shit army and bend the rules to favor me?"

Why can't we just have fluffy, fun armies that play the way their lore says?

Why can't everyone just walk? Why are there always people who want to "race"??!!
>why can't everybody be an ambitionlesss unmotivated person like me who entirely lacks a friendly competitive drive?

>>53202353

Where did I offer any commentary on the balance or morality of summoning? I said you're shit for relying on it because you have more efficient options.

>>53202377
>friendly competitive drive

You're probably a shitter that brings 3 GMCs to 1000 point "casual" games

>>53202377
>Why can't we just have fluffy, fun armies that play the way their lore says?

Seeing that we can't even agree on the fluff, no.

I mean, all you need is someone to find a piece of fluff where a bunch of riptides rip'n'tear through the enemy and "fielding riptide wing is totes fluffy, don't be a faget."

>>53198542
Here's hoping we get or deep striking Land Raiders back fellow Son of Sanguinius.

Hey guys, rate my list for 8th:
>commander chenkov - 60 points
>conscript squad - 35 points
>conscript squad - 35 points
>summoning pool - 1870 points

>>53202396
You think I'm shit for relying on summoning but you don't think it's shit to rely on invisibility?

I don't think invisibility is more efficient than summoning but it's distinctly less fun to make a unit near impossible to rather than summon loads of units your opponent can spent his whole turn blowing to bits.

What I mean is, like with the Tau for instance, the core of your army are supposed to be fire warriors but in 7th, you took as few as possible and loaded up on riptides and whatever else.

Same thing with tactical marines, they are supposed to be the core of a space marine force but people would load up on scouts because they are cheaper and then spend all their points on building death stars.

>>53202509

>8th edition
>Scout squad
>Scout squad
>1900 reserve pool

>>53202461
I would whip my dick out right there on the table and knock all your figs over

>>53202404

You're probably a shitter who tries to footslog weak melee infantry against a gunline and then cry WAAC when you get shit on.

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>mfw everyone will have vindicare assassin's in their reserve pools

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>>53202472
Two other Daemon players argueing about the cheese of their lesser gods army.

>>53202368
Hey, way to step into the middle of a several week long conversation and ask for a recap without going and reading all the released info first, you tremendously lazy faggot.

>>53202565
Assassin's what?

>>53202574

Tldr

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>have to carry more models to flgs
>Have to hide them as to not let opponent know what is in my reserves
>TFW I'm playing Yu-Gi-Oh and my counter units are trap cards

>>53201919
The main boost so far is the ap of our guns now means a damn even when not rending. Sysmic cannons and greade lauchers gain most, but I expect webbers to get some fun. The ablity to use cover will really help us too, seeing as ruins are probably going to be +2 .

>>53202056
Nope, i'm just not a tard. Unlike you

>models and upgrades seem to be cheaper across the board
>Higher point matches take less time
>BUY MORE PLASTIC FIGURES

New Games Workshop©, same old shit.

>>53202239
I dunno, if they price the bc russ appropriately it won't be that bad. I know people get pissy when you talk about a weapon or models potential rather than it's mathhammer average, but the potential to one shot a dreadnought or riptide is still pretty good.

Plus we don't know for sure that the russ will be bs3, or what kind of benefits or buffs you can give the army using characters, commands or command points.

>>53202780
What's it like to be terminally pessimistic? Like are you afraid your shitty attitude will get the better of you one day, and you'll just throw yourself off a bridge because life is such an unending disappointment?

>>53202792
>Potential to one shot things

The chances are so obscenely unlikely that balancing a weapon around that fact is stupid.

>>53202842
He clearly just never grew out of that edgy teenage pessimism that people go though

>>53202886
>obscenely unlikely.
>roll slightly above average.

Ok

>>53202931
>Roll well over average
>On a D6
>Then 4+ on multiple d6
>Hope they fail saves
>Roll well on multiple D3
>Roll well to wound on multiple d6

Yeah I'm sure that will be a likely occurrence.

>>53200539
I imagine they'll just make it a transport for gants in addition to being a beater. perhaps even add models back to units near it ala the ghost ark formation

>>53202368
Go read all the 8th articles on the Community site, you'll find your answer.

>>53203085
That would at least explain why Tervigon + Termagants is sold as one of those "mechanized squad" boxes.

>>53202984
>roll 4s across the board
>opponent fails 4 5+ saves
>dead dreadnought

Again, I know people hate when you talk about potential, but we don't even know what buffs will be available.

>>53202780
Play lower point games?

>>53203233
Dont you mean lower power lever(tm) anon?

>>53203323
No I think you meant Lower Power Level™

>>53203345
>not being a phoneposter
What are you a tryhard at 4chan?

>>53203384
Even if you were on mobile you could have copy pasted it from somewhere, put a little effort into your shitposts man.

>>53203423
Uggh but muuuuuum, I only do zero effort shit posting when I am on my phone. When I get home i'll go find the titan/fabius pasta, k?

>>53203459
And don't you forget to add a brand new bad mspaint image to it young man.

>>53202305
If you have to purchase for the Tervigon in advance I expect it will no longer run out unexpectedly.

In which case it will become more reliable.

How useful it is will be depends on how tough it is..

>>53200834
that will do

but make me spawn devilgaunts and hormagunts

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>>53198205
FUCK, NO. SHITS GOING TO BE JUST LIKE SIGMAR.

WHATS THE FUCKING POINT OF SUMMONING THEN WHEN YOU COULD JUST DEEP STRIKE FOR FREE??

ITS NOT LIKE SUMMON HEAVY LISTS EVER WIN GRAN TOURNEYS!!! THEY SHOULD HAVE LEFT SUMMONING ALONE!

RECIUS AND THE OTHER FAG THAT ARE ""BALANCING"" THIS SHIT ARE ONLY THINKING ABOUT MAKING CHANGES TO THE GAME THAT ARE GOING TO MAKE ORGANIZING AND RUNNING TOURNEYS EASIER. THEY DON'T GIVE A F*** ABOUT THE GAME

>>53203907

t.WAACfag

>>53201167
>But I'm pretty sure the Leman Russ is the MVP of the guard in 8th.

What, so your MVP's main gun kills on average 1 Marine each turn? Setting the bar pretty low there.

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>>53203872

>>53203872
Thin your paints

>>53203907
Sshh..you'll stir up Reece's personal dick-riding squad if you point out flaws in his or GW's glorious 8th ed

remember: Frontline Gaylords can do no wrong

>>53204084
No 7th was just bad. At this point someone can put actual murder as a rule resolution in 8th and it would still cause me to think it's better than 7th

>>53203907
A tournament is run easier if the game is balanced and rules are clear, a game is better if it is balanced and the rules are clear.

>>53203872
You're bad at every aspect of this hobby. Perhaps look into Hero Clix.

>>53204303
no you

>>53204303
>>53204078
Don't bother. He's a resident shitposter of the AoS threads, trying his luck in the 40k fandom now

>>53199233
>force all players to carry around rulebooks for their armies.
GW aren't doing that.
common sens has already been doing that since day one.
what kind of gamer doesn't take his rulebooks with him to a game?

>>53204451
Ehm, every AoS player ever? Because the AoS rules are literally four pages and if you read them twice you'll never need to glance at them again.

>>53204303
at least i... PAINT MY SHIT------ OH SNAP, TURN DOWN FOR WHAT!

>>53204663
If you call that painted, I feel bad for you.

>>53204682
alright, post your most recent work with a time stamp and I'll post mine and we see who wins faggot?

>>53204663
Fucking kill yourself.

>>53201517
i know. I'm saying that aspect is still in even if the units aren't free anymore.

>>53204663
Your parents hate you

>>53205220
youre not fooling anyone friend-- we're ALL neckbearded basement dwellers here

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>>53199076
>pre-orders

all the recius dick riders in this thread make me wanna puke....

You really put your faith in a tourney fag to fix the game when they are the ones responsible for all the waac faggotry that is in the world? only a fluff fag can fix this game..

>>53204517
we still keep a copy on our phones.

Plus we bring all the extra battle tomes and generals handbook we're using. Its really any different to old WFB.

>>53205555
Puke away. Fluff is shit. Leave mechanics to people that knows how it works.

If you want storytiem, play RPGs

>>53205555
tourny fags are exactly who you want playtesting your game. They'll find all the broken shit and you can fix it during development.

>>53205555
>You really put your faith in a tourney fag to fix the game when they are the ones responsible for all the waac faggotry that is in the world?
No you idiot, tourney players are the exact ones you want testing so the game doesn't become broken WAAC shit.

>>53205555
Fluff fags will just make rules that are cool but easily exploited by those who care nothing for fluff. Every fluff fag suggestion needs to be filtered through a sensible WAAC fag who can see where things might go awry in tourneyfagging hands like his own.

>>53205555
You gotta remember that the best kind of person to catch a thief and think how a thief will think is a thief. Innocent people won't be devious and catch a devious person's plan. Better you live in an imperfect world with a WAACfag catching the disturbing shit then a bunch of inexperienced fluff players who can't pick it out.

>>53205555
He's not doing shit outside of providing some feedback.

>>53198205
WAAAH WAAAH ME WANT FREE UNITS, IT NOT FAIR ME HAVE TO PLAY BY SAME RULES ;_;

>>53198441
You mean no free daemons? Fucking pay for them like everyone else does

>>53205555

>Only the people that know nothing about the game's balance and mechanics will save us!

>>53203654
>tervigons become a table edge for gaunt reserves

>>53206773
really the easiest way would be to just use the summoning rules for tervigons.
give it as a special rule rather than a psychic power. Adjusting the biomorphs things spawn with on the fly is the kind of thing nids do.

>>53207032

That works, too. They're still basically a nids transport, which is what they should be.

>>53199967
>Taking 110 dudes in 2 platoons
>Not taking 4 barebones 25 man platoons and a commissar each for maximum orders (which now go off automatically) and maximumized defense-in-depth.

Do you even IG?

>>53206712
>being this upset over other army's mechanics because you don't have access to it

Go cry about tzeench somewhere else

>>53202984
Wait, isn't it roll how many hits
roll to hit
roll to wound
roll saves against those wounds
then any wounds that get through do d3 damage?

>>53198213
I don't really agree because it implies they think the only thing that ever needs to change is points rather than a unit's actual stats and abilities.

>>53208294
Yes, you are correct

>>53204084
>Sshh..you'll stir up Reece's personal dick-riding squad if you point out flaws in his or GW's glorious 8th ed
How can you declare 8th edition "glorious" or not yet? We don't even have a fraction of the rules yet. At this point it's all speculative shrieking. Similarly, why would this Recius/Reece person need a dickriding squad when the broad reaction to the new rules has been largely positive? Do you need a boogeyman to hate that badly?

Do you think wargear is going to still have static costs regardless of what unit is taking them or be priced individually and appropriately for each unit?