Goblins or Kobolds? Which is the quintessential low-level enemy?

Bandits

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>>53184765
Xvarts or Tasloi, clearly.

Goblins. Kobolds can remain challenging into high levels.

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Mexicans

>>53184765
Kobolds are the best thing d&d ever produced. Obviously they are the correct option.

>>53184765
Criminal thugs, coyotes, the occasional large vermin.

It's hard to get more quintessential than "big rats" as a foe. Wolves are a big competitor, but realistically, wolves are pretty crafty and strong, and a good pack could probably take like a 4th level party of four in a good fight.

>>53184765
Use Goblins for 1-5, Mixed Kobold/Goblin alliance for 5-9, Pure Kobold with extra traps for past 10.

>>53184765
Across fantasy, it's got to be goblins.

On one side we've got Goblins, Hobgoblins, Orcs, and Bugbears.
On another side we've got Kobolds, Psuedodragons, Drakes, and Dragons.
But what you really gotta look out for are Gobolds, Psuedohobs, Drak'Orcen, and Draconic Bugbears.
Unless of course you're afraid you might run into Koblins, Gobdragons, Orakes, or Bear Draconia, but I don't think they exist.

>>53184765
How fast do kobokds reproduce? Has their society be described? All i know is they are draconic if im not mistaken so i guess they live long

>>53184765
Kobolds are a high-level enemy with essentially the same stats as goblins, a low-level one. That way you can make better use of their reputation as terrible trap-making assholes. And you can get some fun dramatic tension out of NPCs treating a kobold tribe like a major threat but describing something that sounds no worse than a goblin.

>>53184765
Goblins.

Kobolds, with all of their traps, tricks, and penchant for working for Dragons, can remain an interesting and potentially threatening foe even to stronger groups.

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>>53184765
You didn't specify a setting, so in general, of those two options, it's definitely goblins.
I can't imagine there are more than a handful of settings that have kobolds but not goblins as low-level enemies, and sometimes the term "kobold" refers to a type of goblin anyway.

>>53187685
>Gobolds, Psuedohobs, Drak'Orcen, and Draconic Bugbears.
That's terrifying.

Orcs or Lizardfolk?

I've always been a "rats in the basement" fan, but if you asked most folk who were only familiar with general fantasy stuff like movies and a few TV shows, they'd probably say goblins.

>>53184808
I lol'd

t. Memexican

>>53187685
Holy shit anon I burst out laughing.

>>53184808
Alternatively, SPACE mexicans

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>>53187685
>>53188904
Koblins? Terrifying?

>>53188262
According to the 3.5 book Races of The Dragon, They carry a single egg (with a 10% chance of carrying a second) for two weeks. The egg then hatches 60 days after laying.
That book has some a rather detailed look at the race. Really fleshed them out.
And according to that book, they can live to around 120-130 years or so. They just rarely make it that long without meeting a brutal death.

>>53193295
Is it that book where kobolds was specified that they have "no gag reflex at all" and wanting please dragon in every way possible?

>>53193691
Rofl
I honestly don't think so. I don't remember reading that in the book of erotic fantasy either

>>53184765
Depends on the grapple rules and party makeup.

Kobolds 100%

I think any sapient creature is already outside of what should be considered low level.

Things like giant rats, lone wolfs or small packs of wolfs, bears, and other woodland creatures should always be the first encounters.

Goblins are about as frightening as commoners. They are usually just cannon fodder for stronger creatures

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>>53193940

>>53194499
You've never run them as swarms.

>>53195635
What is this from

>>53195807
I have no idea.

>>53184765
Goblins

Kobolds are where it's at

I just can't keep throwing them at my players or they'll accuse me of having some sort of fixation

which i do

>>53195829
is the final boss going to be a guy that gets, or is revealed to have been, turned into a kobold?

>>53195856
Do not tempt me. It's a real problem, I have to stop

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>>53184765
Skeletons! Hoards of skeletons!

>>53195809
>And according to that book, they can live to around 120-130 years or so. They just rarely make it that long without meeting a brutal death.
>>53195807
>>53195635
>>53193940
>>53193691
It's from Pathfinder: Kobold of Golarion. You can find it on google.

>no one brought up Goblin Slayer yet

By the simple merit of being sapient creatures, both goblins and kobolds can be either low- or high-level challenges just as easily as humans could be. It all depends on the resources they've got available, the intelligence of their leadership, the size of their community, and other circumstances.

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>>53184765
They're both great, but I prefer goblins for the wider range of tropes they enjoy--everything from homicidal bunnies to insane tinkerers.

...And because of all the shortstack porn.

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>>53196629
Kobolds have a fair bit of range too, though, going from trapmasters to stealthy assassins to dragon-worshipping sorcerers.

You could even do what one of the players in my current group did and apply their Napoleon complex to an insane heavily armored berserker. I never got the impression goblins were as bitter of being small and kicked around.

>>53184765
Is it bad that I prefer dogbolds?

>>53196758
So long as they're actual dogs instead of the weird mashup of a pug, rat, and lizard that early editions went.

>>53196611
Kobolds seem stupider and weaker than they are because they believe they are only as strong as the weakest member and try to cull the weaker ones to strengthen the tribe. They do this by getting the weak or stupid to test traps, dig dangerous tunnels or patrol/fight off invaders so adventurers are more likely to face the weaker ones.

>>53184765
Both in a near constant war with the dwarves coming down sometimes to stop them from using the new cannon Yik yak made.

>>53196784
This isn't very objectively true because as far as I know only one book's ever brought it up.

But I like this interpretation and always use it myself.

>>53184765
>Goblins or Kobolds? Which is the quintessential low-level enemy?
hard to say both are race profiles and as such their stats are largely defined by their class. so they can be whatever difficulty the GM needs them to be.

>>53188904
must have been a hell of a party.

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I'm playing a kobold monk this very campaign, good fun

>>53184765
If you are a good DM you can throw kobolds at higher levels; those fuckers are organized as fuck and are always prepared.

>>53196998
Who would win out of kobolds with prep time or batman with prep time?

>>53196193
I want to be a lich lording over a horde of skelebros so hard.
I don't even want to kill all life, just hang around in my sick crypt.

So.
Industrial revolution, mass-produced guns, kobolds.
How fucked is everyone else on a scale from raw to spiked dildo.

>>53197031
If you also gave them a reason to get out of their holes, you'd basically have fantasy Vietkong in your hands.

So I'd say cactus dildo.

>>53197046
I've ran a few random encounters amounting to Viet Kongbold ambushes in a forest. I think I'm gong to make it a more integral part of the story of my next game.

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>>53196665
Valid point, but I'm not into scaly porn

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>>53197212
Me neither.

Kobolds are for _______.

>>53184765
Kobolds are a smaller threat which really can only be dangerous to low level or inattentive adventurers. The real threat behind kobolds is not their direct strength, but their tricks and traps.

Goblins are a minor, easily defeated threat, but they're part of a bigger, more dangerous whole. Where there's a large number of goblins, there may be Bugbears. And if goblins are featuring heavily in a campaign, they eventually get hobgoblins involved, and boy howdy that's where things get nasty. Properly played Hobgoblins depending on the setting(tm) are a huge threat to an entire nation, if not the civilized world as a whole.

TL;DR: Kobolds are if you want tricky enemies, goblins are if you just want cannon fodder.

>>53197837
fug

>>53197884
On the other hand, depending on the setting and your type of kobolds, they might be involved with dragons - which'd suddenly put kobolds to a very high level threat.

This'd leave kobolds as the low-level encounters, goblins (backed up by bugbears and such) in mid-level, then looping back to kobolds for high levels.

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>>53184765
Kobolds are heavily associated with the underground, while goblins can be placed almost anywhere. Therefor, I say goblins.

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Where are the goblins? How many? Have they organized? Are there shamans?

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>>53198265
Well, they are draconic afterall

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>>53184765
Of the two choices given, goblins.
But Rats are the quintessential low-level enemy

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>>53200738
How come we have no art of Rayquaza'bolds?

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kobolds obviously

>>53184765
Gobbos ar for low level low threat trash dungeon.
Kobolds are for mid level vietcong fuck-your-players experience to test their endurance or to kill that one guy you hate.

>>53200838
What is going on here?

>>53201614
A level 1 party is killing some rats.

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One on one? Kobolds are the lowest since they rely on traps. But neither are lowest if there's hobgoblins pushing them forward with strategy. Both are dangerous then.

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>>53184765
Goblins for kill, Kobolds for fug/slave.

>>53193215
What the heck is this thing, an why do I feel both sickened and curious about it?

>>53184765
goblins because they follow classic logic of having more powerful upgrades so they can stay relevant

goblin -> hobgoblin and/or orcs

kobolds meanwhile are the same any time, "muh traps"" could be done by literal humans or halfings or literally anything just as easily

>>53204500
There's also the whole "Dragon Sorcerer Priesthood" thing that Kobolds have, as well as their small size and industrious nature makes them able to potentially be just as good miners as dwarves, hence why they spend so much time making overly complex and high quality traps since they have access to the metallurgy to do so and its really the best they can do due to being phyically weaker than the other races despite being literal dragonspawn

>>53204098
Well. A koblin is what happens when a daddy kobold and a mommy goblin get Reeeeeaaally drunk and then...

>>53184765

Goblins have stealth, ride, usually have better overall stats, and while considered not too bright usually aren't statistically dumb. I'm working on a story of a goblin gang war, been fun to write so far. Really like goblins.

Kobolds are weaker, but have trap opportunities. They're usually best used as draconic fodder anymore, but older edition mongrel kobolds were slightly more fun, and ridiculous traps are pretty funny.

>>53204755
What about a gobold?

>>53197012
Is it alright if I bring over a few witches, a vampire or two, the local wolfman, Frankenstein and a band of self-playing mimic instruments?

We could have ourselves a regular monster mash.

>>53184765
Goblins are low level.
Kobolds are what you break out when you want to scare the party who just killed a pit fiend.

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>>53204755
I thought that's how you got Hippolds

>>53195992

Just use Cutebolds, and don't call them Kobolds.

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>>53196629
>>53197212

Are you interested in slim goblinoids? My headcanon has it that pic related is the result of a goblin+orc pairing.

>>53197007

The mechanical parts industry.

>>53197007
Depends, if during a defensive siege between Rogal Dorn and Konrad Curze who would win?

Or would Perturabo be a better match to the 'bolds than Dorn

>>53205068
Or could Batman break into a fortress held by Dorn.

>>53205087
I don't think the universe could handle that much concentrated weapons-grade autism in one place

>>53204952
>be honest and hard working orc woman
>muscular and yet feminine in the right places
>face is ugly for human standards tho
>develop a deep and interesting personality and many artisan and combat skills despite short lifespan
>some green skinned daggerear slut comes along with a bland personality and no skills despite a thousand year lifespan and all the men lust after her

Fuck this.

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>>53205395

> His setting's goblin empire doesn't have sexy eugenics

>>53184845
Uuum in what edition?

personally, i perfer to use kobolds as a slightly smarter but even more cowardly, leading them to be better organised and with better traps, usually used en masse as archers/spearthrowers/very weak magic users, while the party is in the middle of being hindered by the traps they sprung (or even better, to make them charge into the traps). this makes me use them even into mid levels of play.

goblins however are great shocktroopers... until around they hit level 2. the trick about using them is to first allow the party to test out how tough a goblin is to give them some sort of measurement tool and then throw way more than they can handle at them, but as soon as -if it does- the tide starts turning, the goblins should start doing stupid things due to their panicked cowardice, stop moving into melee of the berserking barbarian, start intentially missing shots and, well, simply running away.

>>53204952
>>53206355

Hmm, this is canon in my setting now. Thank you anon.

>>53202554
Boobgoblin

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>>53184765
Why does that goblin look like it wants me to piss in it's mouth?

>>53193215
How do you cross two non-furry races and get a furry out of it? Something in the drawing style just screams 'kill it'.

>Which is the quintessential low-level enemy?

Gibberlings.

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>>53204952
>result of a goblin+orc pairing.
So what, like a hobgoblin? I can dig that

goblins for outdoors and cities, kobolds for dungeons and caves

>>53204952
You just painted an elf green.

Golblins, definitely. Kobolds are actually aesthetically pleasing, would bang 10/10. Snotgoblins are not.

>>53184765
Goblins are the lowest of the low in my opinion, they are both weak and stupid. Kobolds are weak but clever.

>>53211961
Furry? I thought it looked like a less freaky version of the creatures from the movie gremlins... come to think of it those are a perfect depiction of a half kobold/goblin.

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>>53214291
Depends entirely on the kobold. Some of them are worse than the worst goblin.

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>>53184765
>not a single mention of OG toadpeople

>>53214613
Why does that frog have tits.