/HHG/ The Horus Heresy General

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>>53172717
People with superiority complex punish themselves too harshly for any percieved slights. This is Perturabo being his usual self.
Trust me.
I know.
:^/
>>53172778
>There were some seditious factions but it wasn't unsolvable by any means. And it certainly wasn't deserving of planet-wide decimation.
This. He thought it could have been solved with diplomacy, but he was too zealous. And it was beyond decimation: 80% of Olympia was either dead or enslaved by the time he issued a cease fire.
True, he did not make the world explode like Curze, but comparing yourself to your worst brother isn't a good excuse.
I liked the fight against the Hrud, though. Fucking Horus.

>>53172872
I think it looks good but I'd personally go a little lighter and less blue on the grey.

It might be cool to really scratch and weather the black parts while leaving the grey clean to emphasize that they're replacements. Just a thought.

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IT'S NOT FAIR

>>53172967
>78% losses
>Acceptable

>32% losses
>Censured for lack of zeal

Wow, and you thought the world eaters were a meme legion.

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>>53173208
Oh the nailbrains are a meme legion, have no doubt.

>>53173208
>>53173242
Which legions aren't meme legions?

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>>53173264
Maybe boring UMs, unless being roman and better than you is a meme as well.
Have some battle meemz.

>>53173264
Ultramarines.

>>53173317
>>53173319
>dude Rome lmao

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>Gun down hundreds of defenseless civilians
At least I'm not Curze

>Call in an artillery barrage on a school
At least I'm not Curze

>Destroy and enslave entire homeworld
At least I'm not Curze

>>53173264
DA

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>>53173348
>tfw you are Curze
D:

>>53173383
As a Night Lord player, he's being a whiny baby again, curze has him outstripped in terms of atrocities by orders of magnitude

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>tfw your Primarch died before Black Library could perform any character assassination

>>53173264
AL
>closet loyalists meme
BA
>not that memey, actually
DA
>closet traitors meme
DG
>phosphex lmao
EC
>dickgirls/slaanesh/rocknroll/perfection/gay memes
IF
>anti-IW memes, smug Dorn, PAINGLOVE
IH
>headless ferrus meme
IW
>IRON WITHIN IRON WITHOUT
NL
>curzefag
RG
>sneaky beakie cheeki breeki
Sallies
>never die memes, KANGZ memes
SoH/LW
>not that many memes
SW
>fucking furries
TS
>DINDU NUFFIN memes
UM
>dude rome lmao
WS
>hueeeeeeuuuuuuuh eeeeeeehaaaaaaah, and other mongolian memes
WB
>dude chaos lmao
WE
>blood for the blood god xD!

BA and SoH seem the least memey, Horus gets memed on sometimes.

>>53173632
>BA and LW/SoH least memey
they truly were the best legions

fem-Horus and fem-Sanguinius when?

What would a fluffy Luna Wolves list entail? Standard Legiones Astartes units?

>>53173953
Horus was a Luna Wolf for 150 years and a Son of Himself for 8. Reavers and Justaerin are both XVIth units.

>>53173953
Veterans and Seekers in Drop Pods.

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>>53173921
Never.

>>53173953
Any unit goes with the LW, all their special units existed during their time as the LW.

But for fluffy in terms of army comp, the common thing was overwhelming the opponent, you want to win as fast and as brutally as possible. Drop pods vets, seekers, and reavers are your friends, Combi weapons are love, And terminators in because fuck you and deep-strike with OA. Remember, you're an infantry base legion with rules bonuses in shooting, melee and reserves. Get dedicated transports, kit each unit to accomplish a task and you'll go pretty far

If you want allies, pretty much anyone works and would be fluffy, might as well use them to compliment what ever your lists deficiencies are

>>53174024
What's the best way to run seekers in pods?

>>53173264

Talons of the Emperor

>>53173632
Blackshields
>literally who?, Mary Sue II/XI Legion

>>53174733

Legionnaires Sans Frontieres

>>53173629
Don't worry, they can can do it in flashbacks!
Remember when Ferrus didn't hate bionics?
Remember when "the flesh is weak" wasn't a half-remembered catch phrase?

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>>53174765
Ferrus sent us to Hel...but we're going even deeper

>>53174714
>Not a meme legion
True
>Not a meme army
False, cuckstodes, get out

Is there much of a reason to take a Reaver Lord? They seem over-costed and like they need a bunch of goodies to really make them worthwhile, would it be better to just use a Consul of some type (like a Praevian or Herald) as my compulsory HQ

>>53174834
I don't think Custodes have enough personality to be a meme. Their only defining feature is being very loyal to the Emperor and plenty of other armies have that.

>>53174860
You mentioned two consuls that cannot be compulsory, but yeah it may be a better idea.
I want Blackshield rules for Morturg, and maybe for Decima too.

>>53173441

Curze has outstripped at least 90% of every fictional villain conceived by mortal minds in the context of atrocities through the manual construction of a palace made of tortured enslaved human beings stitched together in conscious perpetual agony.

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>>53174898
>manual construction of a palace made of tortured enslaved human beings stitched together in conscious perpetual agony.
Are you talking about his room?

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>>53172906
Which Primarch would prep the bull?

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>>53174975
Angron would be the bull

>>53174792
Where we're going we won't need flesh.

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>>53175046
>Angron
Get that weak limp wrist nonsense out of here. Nails for Brains couldn't even get a simple massacre right.
>Before Chaos power up:
>1: Horus
>After Chaos power up:
>1: Horus
Seriously just grab the mental midget by the Nails and rip the fugging things out.

>>53174898
I thought that was the Haemonculi?

Pitiful monkeigh, forever doomed to blindly ape the feats of other better races. Your amateur attempts to mimic our greatness only serves to prove the superiority of the True Eldar.

>>53174975
Lorgar, who else?

That's all he does anyway. Fellate the guy(s) who're going to run train on the galaxy.

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>>53175115
I was saying he'd charge right into it, like a bull. Those animals aren't famed for their brilliance.

>>53174898
When did he do that?

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>>53174975
I googled what prepping the bull was. I was disgusted.

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>>53175130
To the Night Lords' credit they were pretty spooky.
>>53175178
Darn you're right.
>>53175204
Your disgust will fade away. Eventually.

>>53175204
Prude.

So, was there any agreement on which podcast is the least shit?

>>53175428
eye of horus, and the varangian heresy are pretty good. I also listen to northern heresy and don't lose your head but they're not that good. RFI is going to go down the drain with only michael I think because it(RFI) was only popular largely because they did listeners lists, and michael just goes "wow this is so cool" to everything without a critical thought.

>>53175150
>Guys
It's gods, blasphemer.

>>53174870
Master of Mankind and Inferno put lie to that belief. Honestly don't know why anyone keeps repeating it, since that same idea has long been done away with when it comes to Space Marines, who it originally belong to.

>>53176335
MoM proved them to be very autistic to the point that they made Space Marines look human in comparison

>>53176395
We don't talk about MoM in polite company anon. We just don't.

Did Titan Legios ever employ Knights? If not, are there any instances of Knights pledging themselves to a Legio and adopting their livery?

>>53176616
>t. buttblasted Imperialfag
MoM was good.

>>53176654
Yes and yes.

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>>53176395
That's how far removed from humanity they are.

>>53176694
Go away, aaron, nobody like you and you know it

>>53175428
Age of Darkness. Less whining than the others, great painting advice, don't spend half the time off topic or droning on about battles they play Ayer at an event.

>>53175502
It sounds like Michael (RFI) will be bringing someone else onboard - we'll see.

What is the least common Legion you see on the tabletop anon?

>>53177139
WS no doubt

>>53173632
>BA
>not that memey, actually

>literally use memetics

>>53177139
Scars by a long shot. Sons of Horus aren't exactly popular, either, but at least they exist.

>>53177139
WS by a long shot. Very few people have the patience to paint all that white properly, while simultaneously possessing the dosh for three dozen bikes plus everything else.

So I play IF but what was wondering; what's better overall: 10 BS 5 Heavy Bolters or 10 BS4 Autocannons? Higher chance to hit versus higher chance to wound. Hitting on 2's and wounding average on 3's versus hitting on 3's and wounding average on 2's.

I'm torn between what I want to build for my Heavy Support Squad.

>>53177552
You give them lascannons and slag anything with an armor value.

>>53177613
hello point sink and insane target priority.

>>53175502
Listened to RFI for the first time because some dude is leaving due to HH switching over to 8th. What a totally retarded reason to give up on a hobby. Every time there's a pregnant pause from the other host, I can just picture him looking at the other guy like he's totally retarded.

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One and all, come around and play the oldest pastime of /hhg/, making assumptions on people's character based on the armies they play! I'll get us started.

>Loyalist SoH
>Maximum Overbitter Iron Hands
>Militia (SotDA/Alchem-jackers)

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How often do you guys take Forgelords/Techmarines? What loadout?

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>>53177697

>Traitor Mech is best mech
>Traitor DG mostly Termies in a Mastadon
>Loyalist BA that are being done up as proto flesh tearers

>>53177745
>Traitor Mech is best mech
>Loyalist BA that are being done up as proto flesh tearers

fuck

>>53177139
White scars and also salamanders

>>53177697
When you were young you entered a Blue Peter competition, you didn't get the badge. This lead to feelings of self doubt and bitterness to everything, especially the colour blue.

> I play Ultramarines

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>>53177697
>Traditionalist, ground-pounder type, probs battle-buddy tier

>>53177745
>Dangerous on the table, loves high profile units, is waiting for the next big war-crime weapon

Loyalist EC

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>>53177667
>>53177667
He's been sounding frustrated for a long time; the 8th ed thing is just the last straw.

Last year they sent cakes to FW with questions on them and a request for a FAQ. GW's social media team posted a photo of the cakes, but FW never acknowledged them (or more importantly, the questions) in any way.

The 40k FAQ killed multi-bombing and Ryan was upset over what it did to 30k because assault-oriented armies count on it for anti-tank work. FW didn't say anything at all.

Then Inferno came out and Ryan was upset about the apparently-imbalanced units, weapons upgrades, and rules that don't work well (e.g. Space Wolves can't take >3k lists as written, Custodes jetbike base weapon is named wrong and the upgrade rules don't seem to make sense, etc.).

Inferno got a second print run without addressing any of the typos or rules problems.

Finally, GW started talking about 8th edition and FW was, again, silent. GW said on their behalf that 30k wouldn't be switching yet, then FW (unintentionally, it seems) wrote in their website's red book description that the rules would be invalidated because 30k was switching - but the next day they changed the text. Finally, someone who knows the podcasters emailed FW and got a response saying that they will be switching, just not at the same moment as 40k because they need more time.

Ryan's complained before about FW only responding to rules questions by email and never being consistent about it, so he was half annoyed by their way of communicating and half annoyed because he doesn't like the Age of Sigmar rules.

In short, a year ago we liked FW because the changes in the red books showed that they were listening and willing to make changes. But then they clammed up completely and that sucks.

>>53178000
Looking forward to seeing the videos of him setting his models on fire.

>>53178000
>FW doesn't answer shit unless they feel like it

How new is he to the hobby?

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Armor autism time.

I've got the 30 Mk III marines from BoP, and 10 Mk II marines. Playing White Scars. I'll have lots of bikes and jetbikes, but some infantry:
>10 veterans with combi-meltas
>10 support dudes with flamers
>5+ heavy support with missile launchers

I'll get some shields and make breachers with the remaining BoP marines, even if I don't use them in games. Anyway, the question is - who gets the Mk II?

On one hand, I could give it to the vets to differentiate them. On the other, the missile launcher guys wouldn't need the additional protection they get from Mk III armor. Leaning towards vets though just because they're more likely to have older armor.

>>53178051
He runs a LFGS and organizes events, so he may have higher expectations of communication than most people.

>>53178000
>Inferno got a second print run without addressing any of the typos or rules problems.

Considering books take like 3 months to print and get shipped from China without changes, anyone expecting they'd actually address changes in a reprint is kind of delusional.

Hmm, out of curiosity, is GW better at answering questions compared to FW or are they all same lazy fuckers?

>>53178101
I don't think 40k players even know they could email GW with rules questions.

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>>53177961
>waiting for the next big war-crime weapon
bless your heart anon you know me, also while I wait for the last of my BA bits to arrive before I start them I am making a pure Myrmidon army including Myrm Magos all in rape trains. No gods, no masters, final destination war crimes!

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So I kind of want to take a Moritat for my Imperial Fists and I was honestly wondering if it's worth it to give him two Bolt Pistols or a Bolt/Plasma combo since his Bolt weapons will be BS6.

Volkite seem pointless since I can keep dumping shots with the Bolt weapons and it's also fluffier.

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>the Tartaros pattern shares many systems with the MkIV ‘Maximus’ pattern of power armour, and provides greater mobility for its wearer than the Indomitus pattern with no loss in durability or protection
>same point cost as Indomitus

>>53177742
Forgelord - force axe, servo-arm, cyber-familiar, rad grenades, tartaros armor, graviton gun, mastery I, athanean
He hangs with a squad of Sekhmets and is basically the link between them and my army of telepaths.

>>53178282
Don't worry anon, 8th will fix everything :^)

Can't wait for all those rend 2 12 shot assault cannons from BA.

>>53177742
Cataphractii armour, cyber-familiar, conversion beamer, 4 cyberwolves.

>>53178282
>FW gives their OC donut steels better rules than units with GW kits

More news at 11.

>>53178230
Go for it anon
Too bad FW decided not to release the bolt pistol moritat

>>53178282
Kinda makes you wonder why they even bothered with the Crux Terminatus

Just finished rereading The First Heretic, always feel so much grief over the Massacre. Lorgar is definitely the worst primarch ever

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>>53178101
They answer questions, but you may get some mild bantz instead.
>if you want something tanky, you should use a tank

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And another, because why not.

>>53179091

That does make me a tad worried about how St Celestine will go, considering 'Won't die' was sorta her entire theme.

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>>53177961
>Traditionalist, ground-pounder type, probs battle-buddy tier
d'aw, thanks anon. and yeah, I do have a boner for dreads and big infantry fuckers.

also, kinda even though this was replying to someone different
>is waiting for the next big war-crime weapon
I damn well like my phosphex, rad-grenades and flamers too, just wish destroyer squads weren't shit. ah well, leviathan dreads and siege breakers with rapiers it is. who gives two fucks about hellfire and radiation when you're 75% iron? suck it meatbags! we'll bathe bodt in blood, fire and weaponized attack moons!

Anyone know how long the XVIth was without Horus, and without Cthonian influence?

>>53177961
>loyalist EC

You're gay but not into bondage or tentacles.

>>53179287
pretty much the entire crusade, maybe only the few initial years after Luna was conquered Horus wouldn't have been with them, but Cthonia followed very soon.

As for cthnonian influences, the existed even while as Luna Wolves, notching their armor, top knots, some spikes (a lot more as the SoH), taking skulls etc... It was sort of always there and the legion did embrace that

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After reading the battle of Ashkelon in Inferno I was thinking of using pic related as a base for making a small set of Abominable intelligences.

>Shave off the leaves
>Greenstuff the swirly bits
>Lace with guitar string
>Paint it to look like some liquid-solid shapeshifting metal abomination.

The question is what to do for the face. Skitarii and Mechanicus bits don't do it because there's either cloth or meaty bits on it, and I don't really want conventional taghmata bits on the things because they look too familiar.

Any exotic heads out there for some sweet Heretek Omega?

>>53179346
The obvious answer would be to Necron it up, what with them being the most abominabe of all intelligences

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>>53179091

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>>53179287
the XVI legion was only really without Horus and Cthonian recruits for the first few years, possibly a decade, of the crusade afaik. From what we know of that time from old farts like Iacton they functioned in much the same manner as their brother-legions, though their predilection toward overwhelming force and shock and awe strikes was apparent, and they always recruited primarily from ganger-slums.

I feel like Loken and Torgaddon rest in peace my nigga are the best source of inspiration for a less Horus-boner SoH. tactically balanced, never-back-down warriors with a predilection for fighting dirty and striking hard, but not to the point of cowardice like CERTAIN OTHER shock tactic legions or arrogance, like those fucking Space Yiffs.

can you tell I like the Luna Wolves?

>>53177697
>(probably) loyalist Dark Angels
>(reluctant) traitor Thousand Sons
>Blackshields when i get the chance
>I also have two Knight Errants which I have never seen in these treads

>>53179346
That battle was badass. Miffed that is was used for more Wolves wank rather than in a dedicated Mechanicum book, though. The "killing the Omega by throwing an axe at the shield that already burned Ruststalkers to ash for touching it" bit was idiotic.

>>53173383
Why is Perty such an autist?

>>53179647
coz KE are a horrible burden to your army in no way worth their undoubted power? I have one built and he is sad, lonely and unplayed.

>>53179383
>Deathmark heads
I might have to shave the mouths off or fill them but these are probably perfect.

Thanks Anon!

>>53179647
You're the kid that got waaaaay too into secret societies and clubs, right?

>>53177697
>Iron Hands that haven't gone full <metallic screeching>
>maybe loyal, definitely killy Ordo Reductor
>Custodes.

>>53179821
ah crap, busted.

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>>53179407

>>53177697
>Almost done with 3k Raven Guard
>Next project: SoS Allied Detachment
>Word Bearers after that for when there's no traitors around to play against

>>53179096
>using meme arrows on facebook
I seriously hope you guys don't do this.

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I think it's a save bet to assume power weapons will be the same as force weapons except Damage 1 instead of Damage d3.

>>53179720
What could be done to make them useful? A points drop or an edit of their special rules?

It's kind of silly to 'lose' a game if you nearly wipe out the opposition but the KE doesn't end up completing his silly objective. Imagine a scenario where loyalist forces control every major point on the battlefield and the enemy commander lies slain under the boots of the loyalist praetor but the KE has a strop and reports the battle lost because he didn't kill the enemy commander.

Something like extra VP if the KE completes his objective but lose of VP if the KE dies.

>>53180232
>power swords are going to be good again
Excellent news. They're such a classic weapon, as iconic in the setting as the bolter IMO, and it's a shame that you'd never take them if you had the choice to take axes instead.

>>53180232
>>53180299


Alright lads, from what we have seen so far, i think we i can derive the melee weapons:

S ap D
p.sword U -3 1
p. axe +1 -2 1
p. maul +2 -1 1
Chain axe +1 0 1
Chain sword U -1 1
p.Fist 2X -3 D6
Chain fist 2X -3 2D6 pick highest


Crunched some rough numbers. Looks like Axe is still superior to both Mace / Sword.

>Test assumed wielded by S4 Marine
>Sword is only best vs T3 4+ or T3 3+
>Axe is best vs. T4 6+, T4 4+, T4 3+, and T8 3+
>Mace is best vs T3 5+

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>>53180232
>faction: heretic astartes
>not chaos space marines
what did gw mean by this

>>53180445
d6 for a fist is way too high. D3 would be plenty. AP-3 for the powerfist, AP-4 for the chainfist.

>>53180505
They mentioned it was similar to the lascannon, so D6 makes sense. As for the chain fist, its always been ap2 same as the fist. it SHOULD be ap1/-4, but i doubt it

>>53177139
On the other side of the coin, what would you all say is the most played army?

>>53180555
IW, AL, DG all seem to be very popular

>>53180445
True, although there's not much in it, the axe is only like 2-3% better vs T4 3+, which is small enough for me to be happy to build models with swords for aesthetic purposes.

Anyway, now I want to know what stats lightning claws have. If they're power swords with rerolls to wound then that's some shiggedy.

>>53180555
The one with all the drop pods. Doesn't matter what legion the models are actually painted as, seems most people where I am play The Generic Combiweapon & Drop Pods Legion.

>>53180535
I get what you are saying, but I'd prefer powerweapons and -fists to be roughly in the same ballpart; giving them (near-)melta stats would make them the superior choice in all situations.

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This is the paint scheme I'll be pursuing for my army, this is my take on what a Thunder Warrior would look like after a few decades of wear and tear.

>>53180600
Supposedly GW wants less rerolls in the game, so maybe they'll be S+1 AP-3 instead?

>>53180615
>Thunder Warrior
Please don't.

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>>53180615
>thunderwarriors

>>53180615
Just do ashen circle WB

>>53180660
>>53180686


How about my "Luna Wolves", lets assauge the collective. I've got a bunch of cool chainmail bits as well as Cadian heads with top knots to boot! All for that sweet sweet Early Crusade feel!

>>53180701
I have a few of those kits laying around, they are excellent material for conversions.

>>53174927

this artist draws fulgrim C U T E

>>53180615
>this is my take on a thunder warrior
>wearing mkIII
>wielding tigris bolters
>exactly the same size as a marine
You mean "this is my take on a mkIII astartes straight out of BoP with no conversion whatsoever" ?

>>53180555
I think there's more Mechanicum players than any individual Legion, but as Cybernetica and Reductor may as well be separate armies then I would think there's probably more IW and DG, although my local meta has been inundated with Custodes recently to go with the Spartan and Levi dread spam on small boards. Some day I will find a proper gaming place.

>>53180999
>tigris bolters
m8

>>53180490
Possibly means they will be merging Daemons and CSM together, also unique IP's that can be defended in court :^)

>>53180999
Hmmm, let me think.

see >>53180719

Come now Anon, I'm clearly referencing the paint scheme and not using this singular model to represent the entirety of my army.

>>53181205
not him but it wasn't clear that you were referencing only the paint scheme rather than the model as a whole.

It basically looked like you were saying 'this is my +1S +1T blackshield'.

>>53181266
There's a second post that sarcastically emphasizes the conversion material that I have.

Here, take this.

>>53181205
>this is my take on what a Thunder Warrior would look like after a few decades of wear and tear.
Sure sounds like you were saying that was what your thunder warrior(s) would look like.

Why do people have a thing about playing thunder warriors anyway? What's the appeal there?

>>53181301
They are a pretty cool concept imo, imagine if Custodes played like World Eaters.

>>53181301
The need to be as snowflake-y as possible, I'd assume.

>>53181398
Or you know, have a decent excuse for playing S5 T5 blackshields.

Arch magos X did things to my muhreens... That's not snow flakey at all.

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Who else will be improving their Magos with pic related.

>>53181477
Just picked that up from the store. I'll be using the big claw on my knight, but now I'm considering to build a whole 'labor knight', though I have no idea how to make that work beyond putting the crane on its back and giving it the other claw as a gauntlet.

>>53181434
>the explanation for chimeriae blackshields in the official forgeworld-written lore is MORE snowflakey than my thunder warriors
You stupid fucking twat.

>>53180719
How prominent is all the runes and shit on those?
I love the armour style but I don't like all the sigils and things

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>>53180735
Cuter Fulgrim

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>>53181642
And cuter Sang

>>53181301
People play TSons and IW, guess they just have a fetish for failures.

>>53181660
I can't tell if it's femguinius or not.

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>>53181854
Does it matter?

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>>53181854
Femguinius has boobs.

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>>53181266
>>53181301
>>53180999

Quick mock up, it's all puttied together, power fist arm pose aside, the overall blend is sort of what I would be going for.

The blank MKIV pad will receive a molded Raptor Imperials (the heraldry will be on the right arm)

In my mind the army is going to be comprised of a variety of MKI-V suits with uniformity coming from the Torsos/Heads with a large smattering of chainmail conversions done to a variety of MKs.

The test model that turned shit post (probably my fault) was to iron out the scheme.

>>53182046
Oh god, his poor wrist...

>>53180612
but thats the point of fists, they have alayds been the better choice

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>>53182046
not bad

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The corrosion effect was over emphasized, but I think overall with tweaking it could be quite close.

I have no idea how to do those lenses or red exhaust ports though.

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Void Shield Generator with actual plasma lamp as central core. Yes or No? I kind of want to try it for either that or the Filiketos, and I can't find one small enough to be a Stormbird shield generator.

Also, anyone actually used the VSG in Heresy games? Seems it would be pretty helpful at averting the phosphex artillery apocalypse everyone hates. Hell, the Mech can bring two and shield their entire army.

>>53180490
if they could completely drop the 'space marine' phrase I'd be happier. Astartes just flat out sounds better. Traitor Astartes / Heretic Astartes sounds better than Chaos Space Marines.

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>>53182095
>fists are always better

Does anyone have any suggestions for dealing with cat hair on models? My progress is painfully slow in part due to my cat having a fondness for laying on top of my kits.

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>>53180535
With the Wailing Doom having these stats, I'm not seeing the chainfist being that good.

>>53182195
Shoot your cat.

>>53182046
>MkI armour
>MkII legs
>not MkVI

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>>53181928

>>53182195
brush your cat

>>53182195
Either put your kits away in a box, or shut the cat out of your hobby room. C'mon man, don't be pussy whipped.

Alternately, I'm sure there's a product that'll get cat fur off stuff in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlo9d4_nFww

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>>53178000
>In short, a year ago we liked FW because the changes in the red books showed that they were listening and willing to make changes
They never did that. Stuff like chainaxes were never adressed and were even made worse by giving them +1Str to suddenly every other legion wanted them, and SoHs just smiled.
I haven't listened to Radio Istvaan, and it's a shame I didn't because I agree with all this Ryan says. FW is silent and only half hears you, and apparently only moves when GW forces their hand.
Their rules in IA books have mostly been either overpowered or sucktastic, and with HH they did a good job at balance...at the beginning. Then power creep ensued, with lots of typos. But they always release good looking, if expensive models. And then their shitty Magnus was released, after a billion Knight Heads.
Can't say FW isn't dissapointing people right now, and I'm actually glad GW is keeping them on their toes now.

>>53178052
>the missile launcher guys wouldn't need the additional protection they get from Mk III armor. Leaning towards vets though just because they're more likely to have older armor.
Agreed.
>>53178130
You really can't. They never respond.

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>>53178430
>Don't worry anon, 8th will fix everything :^)
8E WILL MAKE 30K GREAT AGAIN :^^^)

>>53179096
Fucking kek
>>53180191
That's why I always write my memes <meme> <:^)> like this </:^)></meme>
;^)

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>>53181660
[UNSPECIFIED]guinius best Guinius.

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>>53179407
I want to decimate him.

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>>53178430
>>53182542
Oh you two.

>>53180232
>Force swords essentially AP2.5
>As good as power axes against terminators
>Power mauls still useless by comparison, despite historically being the knight-killer weapon alongside the halberd
Meh.
Also...no Initiative anymore? Power fists can now punch earlier than enememey power glaives?
Deathshroud lose their main gimmick,
powerfist termies and IF SS/TH reign supreme

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>>53182284
Because stupid xenos weaponsmiths fold their swords a billion times due to the shitty materials they must work with, unlike the mighty power of true Imperial adamantium shrouded in mechanicum-blessed matter-disrupting power fields.
Have you seen how many Avatars of their broken god are killed by heroes of the Imperium? They simply had no chance :^)

>>53182733
The activation system for melee seems really homoerotic, I was hoping that it would be done on movement. Example: Harlequin moves 9" so strikes before a marine with 6", and power fists would make you count as 1" for strike order.

>>53182871
Yeah, surely we're still missing a lot of information, because if that was the case not giving power fists to your termies would be simply illogical, since it is the best weapon without any kind of downsides.
And the same happens with power axes vs power swords, now that Unwieldy is seemingly gone.

>>53182733
All charging units get one, uh, volley of strikes at the start of the combat phase for free, then it each player in turn picks one unit to attack, starting with the player who's turn it is.

>>53182871
They want to make the system simpler, not more awkward.

>>53182733
>knight-killer weapon

Is this a meme I'm not getting?

>>53182950
It would be damn near identical to the current system except the stat you check is called Move not Initiative.

>>53182962
This, the real knight killer was a warhammer.

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>>53182962
Yes. It is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordhau

>>53182733
Maybe they'll design scythes around a new reaping blow rule, with their Thing over other weapons being extra attacks when fighting multiple enemies.

>>53183101
The guy on the left reminds me of Wojack.

>>53183102
But they were faster :'(
Now Power fists will make them lose combat because of losing more wounds per dude.

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>>53183074 Remember when peasants hardened their skin so much in the D6 system that flanged maces returned because it would dent it and hit what was behind it instead of bouncing away like swords?

>>53178498
Why did they decide to not release it? From the leaked pic that went around it looked pretty good

>>53183218
But they'll be great against hordes with their chemical hand flamers, which can be fired in melee in 8th! Isn't that consolation? That Mortarion's hand-picked ultra-elite will probably be good at killing the weakest troops in the game?

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So if Marines are ludicrously more powerful in lore than tabletop, what do the ratios look like there? I know in tabletop that a Tactical is a match for three or four Guardsmen, but how many troops would you have to field to drown the loremarines?
My friend is making a Death Guard army and wants to fluff them as steadily fighting through a planetfull of my Genetors, who are throwing hordes of vat-cloned cannon fodder and some serious corrosive and orbital bombardment in there to grind them down without committing anything too expensive. Given he wants there to be about 2000 Death Guard, what kind of force should I array against them?

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>>53183494
Here ye go.

>>53183494
Several million. Each Marine in the lore is worth hundreds to thousands of regular soldiers.

>>53174894
And Castrmen Orth.

>>53183554
That is unironically how marine stats should have been. A squad of Astartes should be your whole army.

>>53183754
>ywn run a movie custode army of one model
Why live?

>>53183768
>what is the tankbune

>>53183579
This always confused me. Sure, they're next to unstoppable in melee, but they still only have one gun each, even if it's a pretty badass one. Artillery strikes kill them, one toasted a bunch of Firedrakes on Istvaan. Surprised none of the many many enemy races just swarmed them with infantry and bombed the shit out of them over and over and over given they seem to love ground battles altogether too much, since on a strategic level a Space Marine isn't TOO much worse than a regular trained soldier, especially with regard to artillery and tanks. Somehow I suspect that reputation did most of the work, the Navy did another large chunk and the Marines take their laurels off the heads of the Army.

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>>53183494
This little excerpt from the Ghosts Speak Not short story seems relevant.

What are the main differences between a Cybernetica and a Reductor army my lads

Never played either on the table and the lists I see on here seem to be mixed so I'm curious

>>53177139
WS and SoH. Although I play SoH, I've yet to meet another player. I also quite like it since in many of my pick up games my opponent is unaware of my play style.

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>>53183494
I think >>53173242 is a good example of what Space Marines are capable of. If you look at the stats before the World Eaters land, Guard were suffering two to three times casualties compared to the Orks, who are known within the setting for being tough fuckers to kill.

On arrival, the World Eaters lost 3.2k marines, but also killed (assuming roughly 10k in Guard kills) nearly 88k Orks. That's about 28 Ork kills per marine lost, and that's because the World Eaters charged right into the thick of it. The next two days, they achieved even better kill ratios.

It takes about 2-3 Guardsmen to kill an Ork, but a Marine can kill anywhere from 30-50, or even more, depending on how difficult the battle is. This isn't even considering the fact that vehicles aren't being factored into these numbers (which would likely drop the Guard rate even further given their reliance on armor), or the fact that the World Eaters are known for just zerg rushing everything to get into melee.

>>53183891
>>53184092

So both of these point to about 120 unarmed people in a rush situation, which seems about right if 2k DG are going to take on a country's worth of DarkMech over an extended period of time from a set-up position. 250 Thousand clones is about what would fit in the seed bays of a standard Reductor fleet, too, given you stasis them in masses.
So presumably this is a planet with a Death Guard base being the last or almost last viable resistance left after the entire fleet showed up and looted the place before leaving, so there's just one or two escorts hanging about blasting them and collecting data on how well the clones perform. Death Guard come out at what, two-thirds strength given they're on the defensive?

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>>53184207
Bearing in mind that some foes are considerably bigger threats to Marines than others (Mechanicus generally being one, though basic footsoldiers are pretty low on that tier list), that does sound like a fair match up. Marines can achieve incredible feats, even when the odds are stacked against them, as long as they use their heads and plan accordingly. Kinda like what I said about the World Eaters, they lost 3.2k probably rushing headlong into killzones and the heart of the Ork lines, likely without much planning besides remembering to oil their chain-axes before the drop. A garrison of 2k Death Guard, given a bit of planning, some heavy weapons, and maybe even a bit of armor, could probably deal with those kinds of numbers.

>>53174898
Curze never did that
Urien Rakarth and his coven did

>>53184585
Well, given the Mech here are being glorified pirates For Science! I imagine they didn't help much. Bombard country/city with whatever they have going on, airdrop in the Zombie Apocalypse and go raid what they want and drop a bunch of observer drones. Blow a few holes in the garrison to make it an actual battle and leave.
Once the Death Guard got the base secured again and chokepoints established it would just be a matter of balancing ammunition against the periodic rushes as the enemy concentrates against them. In an actual battle there'd be Mymidons and heavy armour in there, plus constant bombardment.
This isn't exactly meant to wipe or cripple the DG, bit of a dick move to say to my mate "Hey, I wrote you into My Dudes' lore so we can do some narrative stuff. By the way, you got wiped out to a man easily." Just bully them a bit and perhaps do some hammy taunting broadcasts for analysis purposes and give an excuse for a rivalry.

>>53183878
Part of it is because a lot of the time they'll be deploying into the absolute worst place for you - they get a thunderhawk or drop pod, drop into you ammo dumps, your command facilities or whatever (and often with orbital support), massacre whoever's there, then fly off and do it again and again - they excel at taking hard targets.
Also big artillery is actually pretty slow and awkward to get into position, while even the slowest space marines move fast - hell, Pert made the Typhon because the Imperial Army's guns were too slow, and this the IW, one of the slowest legions. They can probably do the roman trick of encircling an enemy with a fort

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>>53183579
Disagree.
Many space marine characteristics are over inflated, like being immortal or being 8ft tall. A single space is worth but a few squad of trained mortal troops, less so if they're elites like Tempestus or Solar Auxilia, and we know of many officers (like some Commissars )that have resumes worthy of a Tactical Sgt. But don't pay attention to me, Dorn himself says:
>Give me a hundred Space Marines. Or failing that give me a thousand other troops
And you know Rogabe Lincdorn cannot tell a lie. He just doesn't know how.
And before you say "well, Thunder Warriors could kill like five marines, which means they are worth like 50 mortals minimum", that's a flawed line of thought.
Being individually strong doesn't really translate to the advantage of having multiple people man several heavy weapon emplacements.

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Which of these should I use a Paragon Spear for my Shield-Captain?

>>53185073
>They can probably do the roman trick of encircling an enemy with a fort
They really do this. Airlift build-a-fort kits or bring Transformer Rhinos. They did it on Istvaan V, they did it on wherever Angel Exterminatus happens.
Of course, there's an opening artillery salvo, then fort construction, then continued shelling, then they ride the Ironfire.

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>>53185353
The left one looks nice and a good departure from the usual glaive poleweapon...but it's a scabbard on a pole. Is there anything you could do to make it look sharper?

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>>53185353
Right.
>>53185421
My folder thanks you.

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>>53184800
>"Hey, I wrote you into My Dudes' lore so we can do some narrative stuff. By the way, you got wiped out to a man easily."
Well, aren't you a Reductor? :^)

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Relatively new to painting, but I think I figured out how to handle SOH green now. What are some good next steps? Starting with plastics I had lying around. Please spoonfeed me.

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>>53185483
Don't be like me, just paint it all up and then post. I suggest following one of the Forgeworld walkthroughs for each of the Legions before branching out too much.

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Calling out my Iron Hands battle brothers, how do you paint your IH armour?

>>53185682
Not IH, but I've seen some well done IH schemes that are a matte black with steel or silver highlights and blue lenses, or even metallic black (though that's a difficult pot to mix right)

>>53185329
Is it only me who wants a documentary series on Istvaan using stuff like that? It feels exactly like the kind of thing that would be narrated over one or told by an old survivor. I'm not even a RG fan and to me that transcript really works as a story.

>>53185472

That I am, but fighting dirty =/= cheating (sometimes).
I have a little ladder of dickishness. Low level is footslogging Myrms, running Basilisks over Medusae or Mars-Colossus for artillery and using Satarael as my Archmagos in an honour guard of Castellax (once I get them done, anyway).

Medium upgrades to a kitted Archimandrite, Levies over Adsec but still dumping many points into upgrades on everything and taking Cyber-Augmented over Tainted Flesh.

Max level is for twats like the UM stereotypical cheese player (seriously, I heard him extolling the virtues of the 40k Guilliman who can rez infinitely and saying that he enjoyed beating newbs with him because he knows he's right because it's The Rules). There the Medusae rock up being repaired or under a Void Shield dome, Droplites are told to gear up and 100 Rending levies charge forward with a group of Chaos Spawn who excel at tying up quad-mortars because they can just sprint past the Vet-Rhinos.

>>53185353

I would go Right, just because the left is absurdly over-ornamented even by Custodes standards. I like Paragon Blades and such to look utilitarian, because at heart they are simply very good weapons, no gimmicks.

>>53185073

Yeah, that was what I assume they'd do, but they insist on deploying in numbers and by aircraft, which would be about the worst place you could put superb special ops infantry in heavy armour that precludes parachutes - if the plane goes down, RIP all those advantages. I would assume they used teleportation a lot more than they seem to. I just prefer pitched battle over that kind of thing - it's what led me to 30k.

>>53185682
I'm going for a metal/black mix with flat black pauldrons/kneepads and metal trim

here's a question though, white bolters? red bolters? black bolters?

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>>53185682
Out of the house now, so no good pictures, but I do a mix 2-parts black to 1-part leadbelcher. Then Biel-Tan and Agrax shading to taste.

The trick with highlighting is to not make it too bright (pic related is an example of a bad job I did), so follow the same ratio of 2/1 black but use runefang/Stormhost silver instead.

Blue lenses a best, I prefer white with gilly blue, but the soulstone or whatever blue can look good too.

grey gun casings and pauldrons are cool too (red just looks to DA for me), but don't forget that gold is also really nice when done properly

>>53180600
Seems to me that sword will be best for fighting a combination of opponents while axes are best for heavy infantry and maces best for big tough guys with moderate armor saves (ogryns, daemons, some tyranids, orks)

A tool for different problems rather than ___ is best.

I wonder if power lances will still be around. I would expect St: +1, Save: -3 first round, then St: User, Save -1 after that.

>>53185965
Dark red bolters. It'll give 'em a bit of color without sticking out like a sore thumb.

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>>53185825
The first three HH books are already Istvaan narrations that rely heavily on witness testimonies. And yes, those are the best three books of the HH series, at least to me.
Both BL and FW have moved on from that point, though.
Man, I love your power level descriptions

>>53185965
White bolters. It looks absolutely striking when pulled off correctly.

Red bolters is too dark Angels IMO.

>>53182733
It's been a while, but I believe 2nd and 3rd editions didn't use initiative order in close combat. Power fists had a rule like, "always strikes last," and when the Dark Eldar came out with 3rd ed., wyches had an "always strike first" rule. Same with Howling Banshee masks. In later editions they were changed to striking at I1 or I10.

So basically, expect a "strikes last" rule for power fists but it's likely that most other weapons will strike simultaneously (unless you charged).

>>53185766
what about red lenses and clan morragul's colour scheme?

>>53185825
Their "aircraft" are orbital landers with armour as tough as tanks.

On the other hand though, legion-style fighting means they can go for tactics that wouldn't be viable in 40k, big crunchy assaults that get the job done even faster, but it's still usually hitting in a critical place

>>53186048
Thanks. I keep reading that section and wishing that Decima had better rules or a book of his own with Morturg. He's all kinds of badass. I remember me and DGbro discussing whether to make an Armies on Parade board of that scene, given we have DG, Mech and WE between us. SoH would just have to get shafted, I suppose. It's either that or some kind of aerial battle using one of the fuckheug Superheavy Flyers attacked by his Deldar.

>>53186218

To be fair, "anti-aircraft" in 40k is anything from an orbital defence laser down, anything on the game scale is primarily meant for fighter craft and transports rather than Stormbirds. Drop Pods and TP seem like better options to me for battle, leave the aircraft for rescues and pickups.

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>>53186138
>Clan Morragul
Patrician

>Red Lenses
Pleb

>>53185766
I'm going for blue lenses for sure.

>>53185965
Black bolters, keeping it simple.

>>53185982
Mhm, mixing black and metal is brilliant, I'll have to try that. Pure black is so boring and pure metal is more Iron Warriors. A mix is neat.

It would be nice to seen more pictures of your dudes, if you have the time to post later.

>>53185982
Not sure I'm seeing it right, but it looks like the metallic areas have a warm tone and the matte ones a cool tone. That works really well. I'm not really in love with the matte areas because they're matte and totally non-metallic... I'd consider giving them a metallic wash or something. But if you do, keep it cool-toned.

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>>53186345
I have failed you, Lord Morr. Allow me to crash a moon into a recruiting world and slaughter some traitor militia as penance.

>>53186776
Permission is always granted for that, brother.

>>53183878
Because they won't be deploying right where you can swarm them, they'll be drop poding right into your missile bases, orbital lasers, command centers, power grids, etc. By the time the common soldiers figures out they're under attack the leadership will be dead and the infrastructure demolished or in enemy hands. Marines don't just stand out in the open where you can spend days wheeling millions of soldiers to confront them.

>>53185682
while we're on the subject of the iron tenth, does anyone have any tips for running a more assault-focused army? the IH legion rules are clearly focused on slow, footslogging kinda-shooty lists but with their sheer resilience, the Company of Bitter Iron ROW and love for beep-boops there might be some potential there.

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>>53186282
Decima and Morturg starr in their story "Blackshield", and so does the Deathshroud depicted in HH2.
>>53187130
For Bitter Iron, I can only recomment:
Use melee, you now have Hatred
Don't fall for the Immortal meme.

>>53173264
Sons of horus/luna wolves maybe? They are pretty vanilla. Or imperial fists

>>53187089
Except half the time they do, because the enemy has powerful AA guns and void shields blocking teleportation so they land outside or fly in and attack normally. See: Istvaan and Prospero against other Marines, attacking Hive Cities and battleship boarding actions against conventional opponents.

Also, many opponents don't mark out their high command on a map and have leaders that will die to bolters, or even have a leader as such at all. If you landed on a Forge World you'd find the Archmagos tucked up in a bunker a few kilometres deep where he doesn't need to give a shit, and there aren't enough marines to sabotage and hold a sufficiently large amount of infrastructure without being killed in small groups by guards and all the heavy weapons that you can't fit in a drop pod.

Also, you don't need millions of soldiers. You need enough to pin them in place long enough to get the orbital bombardment, nuclear missiles or artillery firing at range because they die to that just fine. That's about half an hour, tops, and Drop Pods are kind of one way.

>>53187130
I think head of Gorgon is better for iron hands melee because of dedicated transports getting outflank.

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>>53186389
Here's a shot of some heavily /wip/ Immortals, still need to get the finer details but the armor itself turned out a pretty good color imo.

Probably would've been smarter to do some single-model pics, but oh well

>>53186663
Great idea about the metallic wash, I've been uncertain what I should do to him, but that sounds like a good plan.

Also, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that noticed the contrast the grey has with the metal. Though still not 100% if I like it, once the man's done I'll say for certain

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>>53186218
Bear in mind, Space Marine aircraft don't fly by conventional standards. They're basically tanks (i.e. heavily armored, not aerodynamic, brick-shaped) that have engines strapped onto them that are so powerful that they can not only keep it airborne, but flying at considerable speeds.

This is why Space Marines really enjoyed their aircraft. Sure, they do get shot down once and a while, but when you can drop a Storm Eagle, Thunder Hawk, or Stormbird almost anywhere, disgorge anywhere from 20-50 marines, and provide heavy firepower for the troops they just dropped off, its absolutely devastating. Or, you deploy the Marines in drop pods, give your enemy a healthy dose of shell shock, land squads of Marines at the heart of whatever they're fucking up, and send in the dropships a minute later to provide fire support and relocate troops as soon as they've finished butchering their targets.

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>>53187908
Then which faction travels by United airconveyors? Mortals?

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>>53187549
Lookin' good former brother! Can't wait to see them finished.

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>>53188079
Yeah, Auxilla/IG. Even their aircraft is pretty tough by modern standards, but Valkyries go down much easier. Still doesn't stop them from launching a wing of 20 to drown the enemy with weight of numbers.

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>>53186345

>>53187375
Marines are almost impossible to pin in one place if they don't feel like staying there, capable of punching through almost anything you can deploy to interdict them, and you have no idea just how easy it is to throw complex infrastructure into total disarray.

>>53188430
Different anon. Though I agree with most of your point, depending on who's infrastructure it is (Mechanicum) and if it qualifies as Zones Mortalis, then they can be stopped, which encourages both parts to retreat and regroup, like the Paramar Panopticon stalling the Alphas so much that both parts had time to regroup and the planet had to be further contested in an Armoured Spearhead vs Castellan detachment scenario, and the planet had to fall instead of being merely captured.

>>53184092
World Eaters land on the planet wearing white and get out wearing red after their "victory", with the Imperial Guards still dying for a few days after the Orks are all dead.

If the worst legion made such a difference other smarter, less likely to teamkill Legions would be really amazing.

>>53188922
It's been previously established that SW are the worst Legion.

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So right now I have this as my current collection for Siege Imperial Fists; what more would you add? Heavy Support Squad? 3 Medusas? Whirlwind Scorpius? Looking for effective additions to a Siege force that are thematic and effective.


2 Praetors
1 Master of Signals
1 Siege Breaker
1 Librarian
1 Chaplain
1 Moritat
2 Apothercaries
5 Cataphractii Terminators
30 MKIV Marines
10 MKIII Marines
10 MKIII Breacher Marines
10 MKII Seeker Marines
3 Land Raider MKIIBs
1 Xiphon Interceptor
1 Contemptor-Mortis
1 Deredeo
3 Deimos-Vindicators
3 Land Raider MKIIBs

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There were a few Astartes from the Traitor Legions that remained loyal to Imperium during the Horus Heresy, but, where there any case of fallen Astartes from the loyalist Legions?

Not counting Dark Angels and their "secret".

>>53189035
Tbh, I think it would have been fantastic if there was a group of space wolves who went to Chaos.
Fulfilling that very grim idea of 'Vikings' in space, as raiders and marauders tearing apart the universe at their own whim for glory and riches

>>53189035
A good portion of the White Scars wanted to declare for Horus.

>>53189108
Not during the HH era, but there is at least one:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Svane_Vulfbad

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>>53189108
Ahem. There were only like 13 Great Companies in the entire legion for those keeping track at home.

>>53189179
Dark Wolves are older than Svane and we dont really know when they went traitor, I dont think its that much of a stretch that the Dark Wolves maybe sided with Horus or went renegade during the Heresy.

>>53189035
FW book 6 says yes, but not much more than that.

The White Scars almost split 50/50, but (new fluff) the would-be traitors tried making the decision while the Khan was away. When he came back and decided, most gave up and accepted their penance as sagyar mazan. But the novel Scars has "several small ships" slipping away from the fleet and presumably going traitor. Book 6 also shows a Blackshield that was obviously a White Scar before.

You've also got anecdotes of legions leaving small contingents in far-flung places, or on secondment fighting with the SoH or whoever else. Easy to picture them siding with the Warmaster. Well... not so easy in the case of the Isstvan V loyalists, aside from some of the exiled Terran Raven Guard.

Where do you guys get your power axes? Any specific FW set I should be looking at, or GW, or 3rd party?

I need a couple for Terminators but more critically for Outrider Bikers.

>>53189168
>Khan dealt with the traitors in his legion by just ordering them to stay loyal
>commanded the ringleaders to perform suicide missions until they were all killed
>they obeyed without question
How can one Primarch be so based?

>>53185682
spray black, drybrush stormhost silver, spray with tamiya smoke, then go all over the model randomly with druuchi violet, waywatcher green and lamenters yellow, washing with nuln oil if it gets too saturated in spots.
metal details are stormhost silver with nuln oil, bronze is balthasar gold, hashut copper, and a wash of earthshade then sepia.
i'll post pics in a moment

>>53189267
This. The fact that most of the Legions weren't always all piled up in one place provides opportunities for grand-company sized elements or smaller to break away. Several battle groups of TS escaped the Burning of Prospero by being away on other assignments at the time, or because they were garrisoned elsewhere. This way, even if the majority of the parent Legion was off pursuing their Primarch's objectives, there'd still be room for turncoats.

>>53189383
Also remember that garrison worlds were a thing. That's how the one based IW guy survived as a loyalist.

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Does High School of Heresy deserve its own general or does it go here

>>53189291
He cemented himself in my eyes when he stormed into Malcador's creepy psyker death machine dungeon and threw down over Arvida of all people.

>Draws his sword on the Regent of the Imperium over a threat to the life of a mortally wounded marine not even from his own legion

Only the loosed hunter knows what true trust and loyalty are.

>>53189277
Honestly, I've just taken Fantasy axes and/or heads to make power-axes myself. Quick, bit dirty, but effective.


As a side note, given a choice of power weapon, are power axes or swords better? I've been re-integrating back into the hobby and I'm trying to make sense of everything again.

>>53189462

That's 2010 shit

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>>53189483
This isn't Warhammer High

This is something new and different

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>>53189462
Probably it's own thread. It'll draw attention on it's own for sure, and it won't tick off the entirety of /hhg/ in the process.

>>53189470
For the moment, axes. When 8th hits, it looks like it'll be more varied and situational.

>>53189462
Was the drawing distorted in any way?
It looks as if it was photographed under water.

>>53186118
Initiative has been in use in 40k since Rogue Trader, and I think it's been here since Fantasy began.

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>>53189435
Yup. Each Legion probably kept a garrison on its homeworld and/or recruiting worlds, as well as other key locations (troublesome worlds, system lynchpins, forgeworlds, good staging areas, etc). Which makes me question do we know if the Emperor's Children maintained any other recruiting worlds besides Chemos?

>>53189470
Usually axes or a mix of both. They're Unwieldy though, so you might use a sword on a character who has to fight in challenges (unless he's tough enough to survive incoming attacks for a round).

You want some axes so that your unit doesn't get tarpitted by Terminators or a sergeant in artificer armor.

>>53189689
Initiative has always existed, but it did not determine who strikes first in combat. It was a tiebreaker in close combat, or used for pinning checks and a few other things that I can't think of right now (which might've only been things in Necromunda and Gorkamorka, like rolling to not fall of a ledge or freaking out because you were all alone).

Anyone know good conversion bits for a really big-ass sword, or a sword broken in half?

>>53189903
How big are we talking?

>>53189932
Marine-size big or just little bit smaller?

>>53189538
It's the exact same fucking thing. There is literally zero difference between female teenaged primarch and more teenaged female primarchs.

>>53189825
It started determining strike order in 3rd. Before that combat worked very differently than it did in 3-7.

>>53190062
WHH was primarch daughters.

Oh, btw, is scythe-'shaped' weapon (not the actual power scythe) DG only thing? Or can I use it as a power axe? Only for aesthetics.

It's for my Chaplain Gehrman

>>53190133
Exact same thing, as I said. There is literally no difference besides what you call them. Any illustrations done will just end up on the WHH page anyway.

>>53190057
Grey Knight Terminator swords.

>>53190160
Style points reign supreme, and I think with the 30k rules you get a bit more wiggle room for what power weapon the chaplain gets.

>>53190238
If they were just little bit wider...

Custodian sword is too ugly to use though. Damn.

goddamn Holy Moonlight

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>>53189462
I haven't seen you in months you NL loving mess.
>that pic
I forgot about it, and was reminded of an equally depressing mess.

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>>53189306
this is how it turns out

>>53190319
Cypher's big sword.

Since IH players are being talkative for once, mind giving the list a quick rundown?

I intend to make a list for every legion, and this one more than most seems hard to get down in fluff and crunch.

>RoW: Armored Breakthrough 3k points

Sicarian- lascannons, dozer blade
Praetor- terminator armor, Cyber-Familiar, Paragon Blade, digital weapons
-command Squad with 4 chosen, terminator armor, 2 PF, 2 CF in a LR Phobos

-Gorgon Terminators with 2 PF, 2 CF in a LR Phobos
-2 10-man veteran squads with Rhinos

-2 predators with dozen blades and lascannons
-3 Javelin Landspeeders, unsure of 1 squad or 3

-deredeo with plasma scary gun
-leviathan in a pod with a storm cannon
-2 Vindicators with dozen blades, 1 has a machine spirit

That actually leaves 50 points to kick around with, either in giving AC to stuff (meh. no one takes melta anyways), combi-guns for the vets, or even some fanct reaper autocannons to let the termies pack a punch in and out of combat

Really just a combination on lists here and on other sites (oh BaC how I hate thee), curious what you guys think of playing with/against it

>>53190560
Oh, I forgot to mention I'd also considered taking instead of the praetor a Delegatus w/ Cataphractii armor, Cyber-Familiar, and chainfist, which'll save 60 points, at the cost of killiness. Y/N?

Or does at that point it sort of negate the point of a special squad?

>>53190560
You're spending ~600 points on a praetor, retinue and ride when you dont need to, whats your reasoning there? That crew will get murderfucked by any sort of deathstar. You can get MotL for your HQ sicaran for this exact rite. You could take three kitted cortus dreads or a fellblade for that. Or just five more predators.

You've also only got a dorito for AA, and its with the least effective dorito upgrade. Seeing as fire raptors would ruin this list if given one turn to shoot unmolested i would either swap the plasma array to the autocannons for range, or bring a jet too-A xiphon would do well.

>>53190560
>>53190826
One other thing, the Leviathan is too good at either killing deathstars or demolishing anything with AV to half-ass it with an ap3 weapon, especially since the rest of your army is pretty good at killing marines through either power or quantity of fire. The other guns it has access to are great, grav-gun destroys terminators like nothing else and the meltalance is insanely good at blowing shit up since, as you said, no-one brings ceramite.

>>53191133
Good point. Which do you think would be a better option?

So, perhaps a good general idea would be to get a second Gorgon squad, drop the command stuff, and then grab a kitted-out lightning fighter?

desu I just love the Plasma gun on the Dorito, that much I intend to stick with.

>>53191235
Lightning-AA is nice and easy thankfully: two pairs of autocannons, battle servitor, and a ramjet diffraction grid will help shoot down almost anything, all for 5 more points than a stock Xiphon.

Do you think any of the traitor Primarchs looked around and realized they were on team loser?
Like they looked around and thought: Gee Horus, Curze/Lorgar/Angron/Mortarion/Perturabo/Fulgrim/Alpharius, that's the best we could do? Where's Sangunius? Where's Guilliman?

>>53191235
>Sicarian- lascannons, dozer blade

>-Gorgon Terminators with 3 PF, 2 CF in a LR Phobos
>-2 10-man veteran squads with MMelta Rhinos

>-4 predators with dozen blades and lascannons

>-3 Javelin Landspeeders, 1 squad
>-Xiphon or the thing put in >>53191562

>-deredeo with plasma since you love it
>-leviathan in a pod with a meltalance, AC
>-3 Vindicators with dozen blades, machine spirit

Something like this works pretty well. Not sure of exact points. If you wanted, you could also run minimum troops and only one vindi, and bring an Orth'd Fellblade.

>>53191630
Dude Horus and Fulgrim were literally the Emperor's favorites

>>53191630
Angron probably, but he was too MAD.jpg to care.

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>>53189291
>>commanded the ringleaders to perform suicide missions until they were all killed
>>they obeyed without question
>How can one Primarch be so based?
Rather, it seems they were very dependent on what their Primarch said.
>Hey, gotta follow the Warmaster, he's a real warrior and his Imperium will be good, unlike the one that barely remembers us. What you say? The Khan says we remain loyalists? OK.
WS recruit only from Chogoris, right?
The opposite would be the great amount of Iron Warriors that didn't follow Perturabo into treachery.

>>53191630
Doesn't Horus complain about that exact thing?

>something something why don't I have dudes like Guilliman

>>53189724
>Do we know if the Emperor's Children maintained any other recruiting worlds besides Chemos?
Yes, why do you spoiler it? Children of noble families were tithed to the Emperor's Children, and Fulgrim never refused them.
HH1 implies he was flattered.
Maybe even from other bleak worlds. Perhaps they reminded him of Chemos.

>>53191649
But Horus didnt get Fulgrim the perfect general, he got Fulgrim the cock-addicted crack whore and his legion of selfish sexual deviants.

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>>53191812
Honestly, I feel like I bother the thread too much with EC questions, and the post was mostly a response to someone else anyway.

And I wasn't aware of that. I think I'll take a look through HH1 now to brush up on my lore.

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>>53191920
It's ok, we're here to help.

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Do you guys ever bother with Moritats anymore? I like the idea of them but are they really such a waste even in relaxed games?

I just want one with Volkite/Plasma, Jump Pack, Art Armor, and a Refractor field for weird commando shit.

>>53189209
Where's this from, again?

>>53191920
Don't listen to>>53191978

There is only the Thunder Legions here to support your newfagness. We embrace you.

>>53192191
I considered taking one in my S5 T5 BlackShields for infantry and character maiming.

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>>53192210

>>53192264
Post Spongebob Legions.

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>>53192344
This will most likely never be finished

>>53192361
Because only you watch that weeb shit.

Post home brew units, bonus points if your play group has agreed to let you use them. Bonus extra points if they are balanced too.

>>53192361
>only post unification Legions
>no Thunser Lesions
>Thunda Warrias

:(

>>53192380
I want to see the pdf anon was making. The one that was attempting to fix and balance HH.

Imperial Fist player here.

I have a Moritat and I'm torn between two choices for painting. Help or ideas?

1. Last marine of his company wanting to run suicide jobs so his other brothers will be protected from any potential fate he believes is now suited for him instead. Thinks any means for helping his brothers is necessary.

2. A marine from what can only be assumed is a traitor Legion. Black and defaced armor that matches his desire to murder enemies of the Emperor, no matter who they are. Wantonly throws himself into intense fighting wanting to die.

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>>53192670
Both fluffs are very similar to me. You could give him a grey battleplate with patches of paint here and there. The reason:
Like a lone wolf, he's the last of his company and his armour still bears the scars of their last stand, bullet holes here, dents there, the acrilic worn off or outright scraped away in shame. Shame of the colour he could not protect. Embittered with rage, he has vowed to keep their memory alive through his daily struggle. Only in death will his duty end.
He now realizes that dying for the Emperor is easy; it's Living for the Imperium what is complicated.
Pic somewhat related.

>>53192749
>Like a lone wolf
Awoo?

Help, I'm feeling the call of recasts on eBay but want to resist. I still like FW despite their radio silence on so many things.

>>53192361
There are very few people who will know enough of those shows for it to be worth it. I like anime a bit, but only recognize two of those images.

>>53191769
In Path of Heaven he complains when he's trying to convince Mortarion that, yes, he really does want him at his side when it's time to go to Terra. Great book, worth reading.

>>53190409
Excellent job on the bare faces.

>>53192855
>Lone Wolf
SW
>Last of his company, armour still bearing scars
DG
>Shame that he couldn't protect it
IW
>Embittered with rage that he lived where his brothers died
IH

It fits whatever legion you choose, anon.