Why does /tg/ hate them?

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The Unforgiven shtick is way too overused for them, and I dislike how they're getting shoved into so many campaigns and events these days instead of other chapters getting some love.

>>53127906
What, Warhammer posters? Because they treat the entire board as one big Warhammer thread.

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Huh? Never have I realized that /tg/ would hate DA more than any other chapter, loyalist or traitor.

They attack and abandon other imperial forces them because muh traitors

>>53127906

Because even among the main cast of 40k space marines, they're so monodimensional with the "muh Fallen" bullshit to the point of parody.

The Space Wolves may be "WOLF WOLF WOLF" and the Blood Angels may be "BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD", but they can at least get through a battle without a sudden "...and then they heard there was rumours of rumours of rumours of a Fallen on the other side of the galaxy and abandoned the battle to go chase after them."

Unsurprisingly, the DA end up looking like huge dicks even when they're not team-killing, and they seem pretty universally paranoid about a "secret" that only a tiny cabal at the highest tiers of the chapter are ostensibly supposed to know about.

>>53127906
Some retards on /tg/ hate them because they only ever show up on their radar for doing something aggressively stupid because of the Fallen and confirmation bias keeps them from caring when they do anything else. The fact that their terminators have a particular hatred of Tyranids is lost to the fact that their terminators hunt the fallen, the fact that their scouts are generally of a higher quality and supported by a higher quantity of marines on bikes is overshadowed by the fact they used those scouts to snipe an Inquisitor once. To anyone not a fan of the dark angles, they only exist to hunt the fallen.

>>53128369
To be fair, they attacked their own allies once because they literally thought it would be a good idea to not hand over a prisoner they previously where going to just because they thought the Dark Angels where too eager to get the prisoner. Which is toying with their existence.

The problem with people and the fallen, is that they fail to realize the sheer amount of fallen that exist. The Dark Angels and their successors are outmatched by the fallen, who if not for the fact that they appear staggered like video game spawns, would essentially be a full traitor Legion and it would lead to a inquisitorial stomp down. Ironically with Gulliman now they have a chance to tell someone who won't crucify them for it.

>>53127906
I don't hate them. Even if they're a bit gay, they're pretty cool for traitors

I think DA are cool (not as cool as BA) but they are perceived as being teamkillers. People also like to make fun of the fact that their name and Primarch are taken from a Poem by an allegedly homosexual poet in Victorian England.

I think they have the coolest aesthetic after BA.

>>53128993
The poem is about struggling with a sin while struggling, but ultimately remaining loyal, to your deeply held religious beliefs. There is no allegedly. He was gay as a daisy, but he was too catholic to let himself fall.

>>53127906
I dunno, they are pretty cool 5th column legion

>>53128742
But I can count on one hand the number of battles that they've been in that didn't happen because they were hunting for the Fallen, mysteriously abandoning allies, or disobeying orders for 'mysterious' reasons. And most of those are from older lore - the Tale of Two Heads Talking is questionably canon now, the battle where Ezekiel lost his eye is from 4th edition, their battle on Piscina IV is also from as far back as 4th edition, even if it's been continually kept up.

They do have the cool shit you mentioned, but it is vastly outweighed by THE FALLEN, and that's something even a Dark Angels fan who went out of their way to look at their lore and battles will notice.

>>53129311
Well, I'll admit it's pretty front and center, but it isn't the end all be all of the chapter. It's supposed to be there, always casting a shadow on them though.

The real problem is that they've suffered from having some really terrible books and stories for the last few editions but are still inexplicably being pushed front and center with Cypher, a character who just drags them down.

>>53129392
I can't really speak on that front, aside from that I was disappointed with the Legacy of Caliban trilogy or whatever it was called, the one Gav Thorpe wrote.

It must be frustrating to try and find your own niche within a faction that has one large thing so overwhelmingly prominent in their lore. Space Wolf fans and Blood Angels fans probably have the same problem.

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>>53128193
Not that i like that aspect of the 40k guys myself, but someone seems to have been blasted in an awful place today..

>>53127906
I don't hate them but god damn robes over power armour is a bad look.

>>53127906
They're my main army but as the years went on their fluff got worse.

>everything they now do is about the fallen, no fighting orks on Armageddon with Namaan and so on
>but the fallen are no longer unique as each legion had traitors, just in smaller numbers
>but they keep digging themselves more and more, becoming team killing fucktards on regular occasions over something that over the years is being written as less and less of a problem
>Lion became a team killing fucktard too, killing his own Legionare for reminding him of the psyker ban

I really like the Dark Angels, the Fallen and Cypher but they need something new. I don't buy DA-centered books anymore because it's the same shit every time. They're fun characters in Deathwatch books though, having somebody to bounce their dourness of and having something new to kill.

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>>53128917

The Dark Angels Legion would have had to been quite large for the Fallen to qualify as a full Traitor Legion.

>>53128993

I think they have a pretty cool aesthetic too and like their use of Judeo-Christian names.

>>53130241

Guy Haley mentions in the foreword to Dante that surprisingly there is very little written about the Blood Angels with regards to Baal or what they do on their off time.

>>53133490

>but the fallen are no longer unique as each legion had traitors, just in smaller numbers

It wasn't until this became a thing in the HH that I realized how odd it was to make the Fallen a cornerstone of the Dark Angels, unless the point was more so to show their paranoia and their attempts to redeem themselves. On the other hand the Legions were originally much smaller so perhaps the idea was that they stayed cohesive instead of being spread all over the galaxy, thus meaning any Marines who implied they may not be entirely on board with their Primarch's choice could be easily disposed of.

>>53128193
/tg/ was literally invented to be a Warhammer containment board, newfriend.

>>53134753
So? Things change, that is no longer it's sole purpose, stop treating it like it is.

>>53134804
Why should you come into my board and change it and then complain about me using it for its original purpose?

>>53127906
I don't really care for them because they lack focus. It isn't even like ULTRAMARINES where they're just generically good at everything.

Dark Angels have their knight themes, but are also really secretive, and they have this whole fallen angel theme going on, but also they have the best scouts and the best bikes and the best terminators and the best veterans and they love plasma and all this other Bullshit that doesn't tie together well.

They have the only functioning Jetbike in the Imperium as a footnote.

It's similar to the reasons I don't like Grey Knights. It feels like someone wanted a special snowflake chapter of Veterans and nothing else.

>>53135058
Well, they are the first. Some level of primacy is to be expected

>>53134738
To be fair, a full Legion is a hard number to pin down. Some were amazingly small at times - like the Emperor's Children, or the Thousand Sons - while others were very large, like the Luna Wolves or the Ultramarines.

Caliban was a place to gather new recruits and such, and at least a small portion of the original Legion was stationed there. I wouldn't be surprised if they grew into a small legion in their own right, maybe 5,000 marines at least, probably more if they could hold off the main DA Legion when it returned home. Any less would make it why the Dark Angels have taken 10,000 years to hunt them down.

>>53135610
>Any less would make it why the Dark Angels have taken 10,000 years to hunt them down.
>why
The size has nothing to do with the time. The Warp is still, even in M41, spitting out Fallen who, to them, the HH and Fall of Caliban was just yesterday. It's entirely possible that they've grabbed every Fallen but Cypher at certain points in time in the last 10k years. Not guaranteed, but possible.

Why does everyone have to hate Dark Angels? I've mained them since that thin as hell 3rd edition codex of theirs caught my 12 year old eye

>>53135485
It's fine if they're supposed to have their theme center around being the first and best, but currently it just ends up with them lacking focus.

If their thing was Knightly aesthetics, having lots of Terminators, and favoring Plasma, that would work. But instead you have all this other stuff piled on top of it that just makes it a mess and makes it seem like they were asked to pick a specialty and checked every box on the list.

>>53127906
Because they, Blood Angels, and Ultrasmurfs take too much attention away from more interesting founding chapters, like the Raven Guard, Salamanders, and Iron Hands. Not to mention all the interesting successor chapters, like the Imperial Fists and the Lamenters.

>>53135886
>Imperial Fists
>Sucessor

Anon...

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>>53127906
pic related

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>>53127906
Success breeds jealousy brother

>>53135916
Fuck I meant Crimson Fists. I always get those two confused.

>>53135886
>Raven Guard
>Interesting

Anon...

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>>53135916
>>53136049

Well, technically you aren't wrong...

>>53135886
>Because they, Blood Angels, and Ultrasmurfs take too much attention away from more interesting founding chapters

this. I'm just tired of hearing about them. and they have some of the worst fanboys

>>53135886

Players are partially responsible for what Chapters get codices. Blood Angels and Dark Angels used to be in one codex and proved successful enough to be split into two. Black Templars got their own codex and over the years floundered to where they were folded into the Space Marine codex.

Ultramarines get a focus because it was decided that their primarch would be the one to come up with the way of organizing Space Marine Chapters and that it would be their geneseed which would be used to create most Space Marine Chapters.

Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, and White Scars all did get attention to one extent or another, only sales can truly prove how interesting people found them.

To give each Chapter enough attention is hard to do because it either requires one huge and expensive Marine codex or a bunch of separate ones.

In a way this partially seems to have been Forgeworld's original purpose, to focus on other Chapters who don't have enough demand to justify separate kits, components, and books.

>>53128742

>dark angles

>>53135058
Well said anon

>>53128146
This is actually why I like the Angels of Absolution, and am endlessly torn over whether I want to go Angels of Absolution or Salamanders

The Angels of Absolution consider their sins forgiven after the massive losses the dangles took killing traitors on their homeworld combined with trying to hunt down every last fallen. They are described as more laid back than the other dark angels successors and are known for their black humor.

They're a dark angels chapter who not only aren't all "muh fallen" but who are known for cracking jokes.

That's fucking great. I wish they got more of a spotlight, or at least fan comics of them annoying the other dark angels successors with puns.

>>53135058
>>53136062
DA were the original Ultramarines. They were the "all rounder" jack of all, master of none. Of course they will lack focus because GW for some reason decided to give the shtick to Ultramarines.

>>53138895
I wish people just remembered the successors more. They're rather flat, but they're interesting variations - the Angels of Absolution are less Fallen-obsessed, the Angels of Redemption are the most Fallen-obsessed to the point where /tg/ memes about Dark Angels are practically true for them, the Angels of Vengeance are stubborn as fuck, the Guardians of the Covenant most represent their monastic side...

>>53128917
>>53134738
That's the thing , the fallen is a self inflicted flaw.
then again it may have been because they only rebelled after the heresy had been supressed and horus was killed at terra, the lion all but fucking died and their home planet exploded in the process. I can definitely understand how it came to pass

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>>53127906
because they get more play then best legion, aka ravenguard

>>53127906
Because they're Closet Heretics and refuse to admit it.

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>>53135916
Honestly, Imperial Fists might as well be successors considering they were annihilated to the man by fucking orks.

They did spawn these guys though so they have that going for them

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>>53140479
Fuck yeah.

>>53140647
I'm honestly not sure what GW was going for with that reveal. I don't think it really made anyone happy.

>>53129054
If only we all had such testicular fortitude in life, imagine all the shit we could accomplish if we had such iron will, inb4 IRON WITHIN

>>53135058
They don't have the best scouts and veterans though, not even the best bikes. They do have the best terminators though.

>>53140479
That would be a goddamn metal as fuck Chaos Lord

>>53127906
/tg/ doesnt.

>>53140647
>Imperial Fists might as well be successors
Does it really matter?All second founding chapters were formed directly from the legions.Those guys were IF in all but name.

>>53130241
>I can't really speak on that front, aside from that I was disappointed with the Legacy of Caliban trilogy or whatever it was called, the one Gav Thorpe wrote.

The only halfway decent book of the three was the Ravenwing one, IMO. The series only got worse as it went along, but the whole "well here's how they make X-Wing Dangles" bit in the first was okayish.

>>53135058
Well, there a level to which "best bikers" and "best Terminators" ties in to the knight theme, because Cavalry and Foot Knights.

>>53136185
>In a way this partially seems to have been Forgeworld's original purpose, to focus on other Chapters who don't have enough demand to justify separate kits, components, and books.

You spelled "superheavy tanks" wrong.

>>53146915
To a degree, the use of bikes makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is for them to be better Bikers than White Scars.

>>53146965
This is a fair point. They should both have elite bikers of different types, IMO.

>>53147359
Yeah. It would work better if instead, the Dark Angels thing with any specific elites like that was having Storm Shields and power weapons suiting the type of armor. Jump infantry, Bikers, Terminators, whatever, just have all of them going for sword and board to fit the idea of Knights.

The Dark Angels bikers being elite in the realm of melee would set them apart from White Scars, and adding Assault veterans to the list not only ties into their angel motif, but also makes it seem as though it's less that they're skilled at those specific types of units, and more at just getting in close thanks to a surplus of shields.

The real issue isn't the Dark Angels themselves. They are a conflicted chapter in a fucked up situation. They have done wrong. Serious wrong against their comrades in an effort to hide the Fallen. The real fucking problem is the fanboys who refuse to acknowledge that the angels have done wrong.

>>53146874
There were some interesting parts to it - I liked the cultists in the space station, the explanation of moving in Terminator armor, some of the general battle scenes - but the overall story was just disappointing. Sometimes characters that had been built up would just die suddenly, while other times characters that we barely knew would die and it wouldn't leave much impact. The story as a whole had weird pacing, with that main character marine being shoved along as if going through a checklist of which positions he was supposed to achieve.

Basically it felt like bolterporn - aw yeah look how cool this scene is and how we explain this thing from the lore - with a bad story stretched over the top to try and make an excuse for it.

>>53147441
But that goes against the overall shooty theme that the Dark Angels have going on, and also treads on the toes of other factions like the Blood Angels or Space Wolves with skilled melee troops or assault units.

>>53147772
>But that goes against the overall shooty theme that the Dark Angels have going on

Which goes against their overall knightly theme, etc. etc.

>and also treads on the toes of other factions like the Blood Angels or Space Wolves with skilled melee troops

Blood Angels and Space wolves tend to do melee in a more fast and berserk manner. Having Dark Angels contrast that by going for Terminators and Storm Shields as their main thing with Bikes and Jump packs secondary to that would help set them apart.

This is what I'm saying though, they're focused in too many places. If Dark Angels are the chapter with a focus on shooting and having the best most special bikers ever, then what are the White Scars?

Salamanders pull off green much better

Rerollable 2+ jink saves.

I hate them because i play as the Vlka Fenryka

>>53128917
No, not many Fallen actually exist anymore. The "list" for hunting the Dark Angels keep has seen most of the name crossed off over the past ten thousand years. The only ones left are the big names.

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>>53147850
>Which goes against their overall knightly theme, etc. etc.

>>53148856
>Knights are known for shooting things

No

>>53147689
The only thing that matters is killing space marines. Fragging guardsmen because they saw shit is shit the Inquisition already does, and there's quadrillions of humans anyway so their lives are all inherently worthless. Nothing is actually lost when another regiment dies, their lives are literally worth less than the dirt they stand on.

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>>53148896
Only because the popular culture is retarded and doesn't realize that nobility was running around with pistols in the 16th and 17th century, and were in fact, knights title-wise.

>>53149013
>But ACHTUALLY

No, it still doesn't fit when you're concerned with thematics.

Yes, Knights used guns. No, that doesn't mean an army themed around being knights should also be the best at shooting.

>>53149059
Dark Angels aren't the best at shooting. They have overwatching bonuses (who the fuck even charges marines besides KDK and Nids?) and bikes with plasma talons. Otherwise the Ultramarines are better with devastator doctrine and the Imperial Fists are better with bolter drill.

>>53149157
I was going off of >>53147772 saying they have an overall shooty theme.

Which again, just goes back to the original issue of Dark Angels having way too many things they're good at.

>>53134753
Not that guy, but I literally do not even give a shit.

Warhammer is a shite setting with a shite fanbase and shite prices for shite models.

And this is coming from a 14-year vet of that same shite fandom. I hate it and wish it and everyone who jacks off to how 'awesome' it is would hurry up and vanish already.

>>53148987
AS a IG player I am aware that they are expendable. But remember this:

"Life is The Emperor's currency. Spend it well."
-Merek Grimaldus

>>53149203
They're the first Legion, they're supposed to be good at everything. What's worse is that they no longer have access to the Dreadwing, Ironwing, or Stormwing.

>>53149355
>They're the first Legion, they're supposed to be good at everything

Which ties back to what I originally said here >>53135058

They don't have any focus. They have too much going on and none of it even feels like it matters or is important to them. It's like they're Ultramarines++ but don't even acknowledge it because they're so busy feeling sorry for themselves due to the Fallen.

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>>53127906
because some people on /tg/ like roleplaying as ultra loyalists and get way too invested in minor fluff they don't like. the DA have their ambiguous thing and are sticking to it, which is completely ok for me, especially since they're only one of a bazillion of imperial or quasi-imperial armies who all have a need to differ quite a bit from the esteemed standard (aka cadians and ultras).
I especially find their background healthy for the actual tabletop, because it gives imperial armies more serious fluff reasons to fight each other, and given that around a third of the played armies out there are somehow loyal this is very welcome.

I find the slight closet homosexual connotations quite funny and I really like how they depicted the whole christian schism thing with luther.

>>53149627
This

>>53138895
So what would happen if an Angel of Absolution encountered a Fallen?
Say, if the chapter is helping another chapter wipe out some chaos warbands, and they realize that the leader of one of the warbands is a fallen. Would they, like the Dark Angels, drop everything and attack that one warband? Would they just heavily suggest that that warband takes priority?

>>53150175
They'd probably try to get that warband to themselves and catch the Fallen, and would definitely try to keep any other Imperials away from him. If they couldn't do it themselves, they'd probably call in the sighting to the rest of the Unforgiven. No chance they'd ignore a Fallen, they're just able to be a little calmer about the whole thing. They consider their own sins forgiven, but regard the Hunt as visiting justice on traitors.

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I love my Sexually-confused Angels of Death!

>>53149446
They do tactics worse than the Ultramarines and are less flexible. As they stand, they're shooty marines with a love for plasma, plus options for a either a very mobile army via the Ravenwing or strong elites with the Deathwing, or some mixture of the three. They don't do anything but bikes and termies better than other factions, and the bikes only because the white scars haven't gotten enough love and have less robust rules.

What you want is for the faction to have depth and options stripped from them so they're turned into a one trick pony army like the Black Templars because you incorrectly believe they're better at everything when they aren't. A chaos player can also literally fuck with them by fielding a special unit that changes the entire dynamic of the game in favor of them.

>>53127906
Here's a question:
I've read in a few places that the Dark Angels give any Fallen they capture the choice of "repent or die".
Does that mean that if a Fallen Angel sincerely repents, they allow him to rejoin the chapter?
I feel like that would give the Angels a lot more depth because not only are they trying to hunt down their traitors, they're currently harboring former traitors within their own ranks, who are all invariably ancient and powerful.
Their dynamic goes from "kill everyone who could know we fucked up once" to "try to bring any lost brothers capable of redemption back into the fold". It makes the Dark Angels less "try-hards obsessed with their failings" and more "protect our own, even at cost to the Imperium".
Someone brought up how the Angels are weird because they're the only ones who have a whole conspiracy built up over the traitors in their legion, even though there are traitors in every legion. But I think that the real conspiracy is to cover up that the chapter contains Fallen who have redeemed themselves.

I don't know. It's a little noblebright for 40k. But it's a thought.

>>53151424
just an addon, this would obviously apply to the Fallen who went renegade and not the ones who started outright worshipping chaos

>>53151424
I'm pretty sure that they kill them after they repent. It's more the difference between a quick death with a saved soul, or a slow agonizing death as they try to force a confession out of you.

>>53151390
That's a very nice summary of what the Dark Angels have as their focus and theme.

You know what you didn't mention? The unique flyer, unique Landspeeder, and only functioning Jetbike that they have at their disposal for no reason.

You also seem to think I'm complaining about them having overpowered rules or something, when I'm talking fluff here. You can describe most of the major chapters in 2-3 words. 'tactical romans', 'flamer/melta blacksmiths', 'icy wolf vikings', 'tank-loving cyborgs' 'biker mongolians'

'plasma veteran knight terminator bikers' is rather overboard in comparison

>>53151424
caught fallen have the choice to repent, spit out secrets about other fallen and then die or being horribly tortured and then die.

they really are obsessed with both keeping their half-heressy a secret and getting their revenge on the traitors.

btw, the fallen are not just like single marines from other chapters who have fallen to chaos, they're quite literally half the legion rebelling against both the emperor and their primarch. it's really a whole different scale.

>>53151634
To be fair, Blood Angels have the Death Company, the Sanguinary Guard, the Sanguinor, Death Company Dreadnoughts, Dreadnought Librarians, a unique variation on the Predator, that semi-unique flyer only used by a couple of other chapters...

I think it's just part of a consequence of having a chapter take up its own entire codex. You have to give them something special beyond the default.

>>53151688
'speedy assault vampires' covers a lot of that. The only thing really out of place for Blood angels is the Librarian dreadnought, but there isn't really a Loyalist chapter known for its psykers anyway.

Space wolves are also an example of a chapter with their own book, but all their stuff still fits into that general theme.

If the Dark Angels were focused on 'plasma knight terminators', maybe they would have something coherent. They have so much unique stuff lying around, but unlike Blood Angels and Space Wolves it all just feels secondary and haphazard.

>>53151634
imo they're supposed to be a pretty 'standard' or allround chapter tactics-wise with a very strong emphasis on seemingly ancient mystery, be it tech-wise (obscure stcs like darkshroud or dark talon, lotsa plasma available) or in terms of army composition (ancient order of caliban as a model for their chapter organisation) and the fact that their information management is like that of secretive cults like the free-masons or scientology (circles within circles).

>>53151634
>You can describe most of the major chapters in 2-3 words. 'tactical romans', 'flamer/melta blacksmiths', 'icy wolf vikings', 'tank-loving cyborgs' 'biker mongolians'

Backwards-looking knights.
The Darkshrouds and Corvex are relics, as are most of the plasma, the Terminator armor, and the Company Veterans' equipment. Their organization is a throwback to the days before the Great Crusade. Their doctrine and outlook are entirely based around events from ten thousand years in the past. Everything about them ties into their history in some way.

>>53151824
>>53151867
So their theme is supposed to be really old stuff, in the setting where it's made very clear that older stuff is far better than newer stuff due to the heresy and how much has been lost?

Yeah, can't see how that would make them seem like they're Marines+1 or anything.

>>53151867
Nailed it! The Dark Angels are still fighting the Crusade, only now they also hunt traitorous imperials. So, I might add: "Most loyal" to your term. Remember that these guys are basically the Inquisition space marines, smiting all disloyalty everywhere. Only THEY are loyal enough, and only then because of their constant repentance.

>>53149013
Samurai were early to adopt matchlock guns.
They fought with spears and bows way more than they ever did with swords.
Yet people think about swords when they hear samurai.
Samurai even means mounted warrior, but that is not a trope at all.

>>53151786
>but there isn't really a Loyalist chapter known for its psykers anyway.

Well, Grey Knights and Blood Ravens are both kinda that. (Although the Blood Ravens are certainly more Tell than Show about it)

>>53152295
I should have specified those that have specific Chapter tactics, though Grey Knights also have Psyker Dreadnoughts, so it isn't like the Blood Angels have a thing that the Grey Knights don't.

>>53149627
What a great image

How do the Dangles treat post-HH members who fall, anyway? Do traitors/renegades from younger DA generations get hunted with the same degree of autism as the OG Fallen?

>>53135886
>Salamanders
>interesting

>>53146874
I just finished reading Ravenwing and Sergeant Cassiel was amazing.

>>53146965
It makes sense to me, tbqh. The Ravenwing and Black Knights are elite bikers and the only ones allowed to use bikes in the DA, whereas the WS are all bikers, and everyone is trained in their use. So in this case they're both skilled, but the DA are more elite in this nature where the WS just have a lot more dudes. The best WS biker will be better or at least equal to the best DA biker, but the average RW guy might be better than the average WS guy.

Least, that's how I see it. I dunno

>>53155145
There was a recent story that dealt with this - I can't find a screencap, but the gist of it was that a more recent traitor wasn't considered a Fallen. The Fallen were in a sense innocent, having been lead astray by Luther, but later traitors fell by their own choice or weakness.

>>53148042
>Vlka Fenryka
Whenever I see people call the space wolves this I can't help but imagine what kind of colossal faggot they really are.

>>53155931
Yeah, they hunt them down, but don't consider them "Fallen" so they just ice them without the benevolence of endless torture until they confess their treason.

>>53135058
Its a good point, and I see what you're getting at, but my answer would be that the DA were the prototype Legion and combined arms has always been their thing. This is really well expressed with their numerous wings in the 30k incarnation.

>>53146942

That is why I said partially, the other half was making Imperial vehicles.

>>53151786

Blood Angels have Librarian Dreadnoughts because Sanguinius was either the strongest loyalist psyker or the only one/one of the few who actually used his talents.

>>53135058
Their general theme is a secretive order of knights. The other thing they have going for them is that, as the experiment legion, they got all the toys, which means more plasma, more termy suits, more weird swords, more toys etc.

They do not have the best scouts. They do not have the best bikers, despite the existence of the Ravenwing (best bikes goes to White Scars). They may or may not have the best termiantors. I don't think there's any basis one way or another - but, like the Ravenwing, they do have the most distinctive terminators via their Deathwing. Your veteran comment is entirely without basis.

I like the Fallen more than the chapter.

But Robes and Armor is my secret weakness.

>>53155145
There's a former Consecrator gone traitor caught by the DA who believed the Fallen would come to his rescue, and Asmodai and Azrael laughed in his face, told him the Fallen have been led astray but that he's no better than any traitor then offed him.

Fav successor chapter?

I almost like the successors & Fallen more than the main chapter nowadays.

>>53160709
>They do not have the best scouts.
They do, though. They have regular scouts (as exemplified by the incomparable Naaman); and they have the second company: a company of veterans. So, one hundred regular scouts, and one hundred veterans, all 'scouts'.
As for best bikes, well that's a crunch question that changes with each new release....as for fluff, it seems the Scars must be considered the best biker chapter; but the Raven Wing would seem to be the best biker company. So an individual Scar would be 'bikier' than any other biker, and the Raven Wing would at least be equivalent as a veteran.

>>53167018
Ravenwing aren't scouts, they are hunters.
>>53165490
There's not much going on with the successors so I stay with the Dark Angels.
The iconography, the spotlight, it's all there.

>>53127906
Jew Mason Templar Men-Behind-Men with Ultra-Mysteries and possibly Near-Limitless Clout who hunt the Defectors so that The Goym Will Not Know.
It's the NWO memes chapter. Fuck that.

>>53149277
You forget that Imperium is ludicrously rich with that currency, to the point when ten thousand men is less than chump change.

>>53167085
>Ravenwing aren't scouts, they are hunters
Anon, i-is this bait? For the sake of those who may not know: scouts = hunters.

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>>53167018
>as exemplified by the incomparable Naaman
And what does that make the Ultramarine scouts "as exemplified by the incomparable Telion"? And other chapters, such as the Raptors, have far more effective use and required skill of scout marines, which would make them have "better scouts."

>The Ravenwing is a scout company.
Holy shit, are you being serious right now? And >>53169765, you fucking too (or maybe the same person, I don't care). Are you being serious?

"They do scouting, so they are the scouts I'm talking about when saying they have the best scout marines." Fucking really? So yeah, "obviously" the Dark Angels have the best scouts of all because they have Librarian Scouts. Because their librarians are constantly monitoring (read: scouting) worlds for traces of their geneseed, so that makes them scouts and thus DA have the best scout marines. Because no other chapter ever used non-scout marines for seaching or scouting purposes before. Hell, Deathwing Terminators scout space hulks - they too compose the awesome ranks of DA's scout marines!

Fucking idiotioc. I don't even have words for how mad this stupidity is making me.

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>>53169945
Oh, kid! Your headcanon is showing....sorry yer all buttflustered over shit you don't understand; but you should educate yerself before you sperg out. The Raven Wing is indeed a scout company. An elite scout company. Just like every 1st Company is an elite assault company (with devastators....).
Sorry about your butthurt - you clearly have a hateboner for the First Legion. That's sad.
I'm curious about who you think DOES have the best scouts....

>>53140479
>ravenguard
That's a weird way to spell lamenters

>>53127906
Because they're boring homos.

>>53167018
>They do, though. They have regular scouts (as exemplified by the incomparable Naaman)

One DAMN GOOD Sargent does not make them the "scout faction" when the Wolfy Wolfs have olddog scouts, and the Raven Guard are "Sneaky Gitz: Da Beakies"

Especially since Naaman was almost certainly a case like Tycho where he was somebody's named Sgt in a narrative campaign at GW.

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>>53128193
Literally make threads about things you like. What is with newfags these days, do they think they're not allowed to do this? Just read the posting rules and lurk a bit first. It's not a challenging website to navigate, especially since they added the catalog.

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>>53170259
>this whole post
Nevermind, you're just a common idiot.

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>>53171681
That's a good comeback - sure showed him.

>>53165490
I like Dark Angels best, but favorite successor is Angels of Vengeance.

Legion-style colorscheme, stubborn personality, a few fluffy battles under their belt. Could be treated like DA, could be treated like a generic chapter.

I also kind of like the Angels of Vigilance, though their connection to the DA is only implied.

Lionel Johnson is an underrated primarch, he lived in the woods for 20 years from birth, hunted chaos demons in the Forrest without any equipment, he was then later found by a branch of the knights of caliban then rose to the top of their ranks. And then had a cool brotherly rivalry with Leman Russ.

>>53171137
Honestly the Space wolves probably have the best scouts since they're veterans rather than recruits.

>>53173230
And in fact, the reason he lived in a chaos corrupted forest for 20 years (dont know if that number is accurate) is why many believe that he was corrupted by chaos but for my if it was true it would only help to make him more awesome.

>>53151996
>dark angels are the Hufflepuff of 40k

>>53173336
Would be pretty hilarious if Cypher was the only loyalist and everyone else turned to chaos.

>>53173230
What was Lionel's 'fatal flaw?'

>>53170259
Holy shit. I love the dank angels but you're a fucking faggot.

>>53173841
His inability to read people. Have you read any of his lore?

>>53173841
He was raised in a forest and as such has the social skills of an autist. This is responsible for most of his problems.

>>53173841
He was emotionally distant and overly secretive, never explaining himself or showing his true loyalties.

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>>53135058
>>53151634
Their theme is "secretive monastic knights". And yes they have a ton of things the reasons of why they have them have been exposed in the thread before. I understand that the lack of focus isnt for some peoples tastes. But the point of everything in that lack of focus and what is really their focus is the hunt for the fallen, there is now need for anyone to remark how important is the hunt for the DA is. Everything they have is for the sake of it.
Its invalid compared the RW to the WS cause while RW work is to hunt the fallen, spearhead into enemies lines and hunt the remains, while the use of fast assaults is absolutely everything the WS do. If the RW is better than the WS at been fast is unable to be determine due to the little amount of WS lore we have in recent time in comparison to the DA but I would bet they dont mostly for the reason that WS recruits are masters of mounted warfare even before their are brought into the fold. There is a great difference in quantity, quality, and purpose there.

>>53167018
Yes, one of the RW works is scout, no thats not the only thing they do, no, hunting isnt the same as scouting neither is hunter and scout. I dont think there is need for further explanation on this subject. If there is pls consult the definition of this words with a dictionary.

>>53169945
I have to agree with this anon even when is reactions is too exaggerated.

In the end DA instead of having a bunch of thing they have a little of many. This is what makes their own theme, but after all that things comes the hunt of the fallen and their search for atonement. That is the main part of their theme, their focus, the thing that binds all the other together. If there are still too much of mess for some people it would be understandable. Is not bad to like simpler things these then to be the most iconic after all. For what respects to me, I love pretty much everything about them, even the mess, even the flaws.

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>>53174007
>never showing his true loyalties
It may be Black Library shit, but at least it's cool Black Library shit.

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the dark angels are the current starter box army and thus one of the most common armies to play atm at most points levels

essentially familiarity breeds contempt, I myself got pretty sick of playing mostly badly painted or not at all dangles when I was still going out regularly to play 40k

>>53176397
But that's the beautiful irony of it though - the only person that really knew that he was loyal to the end was Konrad Curze, and the Emperor himself. Neither of them are exactly talkative now. No one else heard an exchange like this, no one else got close enough to him to understand his overwhelming loyalty. The Dark Angels now aren't exactly proving it, since they consider their mission of importance above anything ordered by the Imperium - even if they do it for the sake of the Emperor, no one else knows or understands it.

It makes even the old fan theories that the Lion was secretly a traitor kind of beautiful - in that it could actually be the perspective of someone within the setting, just because the truth cannot or could not be made known to them. The Lion was loyal, but there is no reward in it for him because no one else can prove it.

>>53173230
Let's also not forget how fucking Tzeentch offered him anything he wanted and the only thing the Lion wanted was to serve the Emperor.

>>53149212
goodgoodletthebutthurtflowthroughyou.JPEG

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>>53140323
This. The Dank Angles a shit, but a lot of Successors are awesome. GotC for being monastic, all-robed and consumers of knowledge, the Angels of Vengeance for not giving an inch and the Consecrators for having many relic weapons and vehicles.

I don't hate them. I actually like them.

I just like to make jokes that they're traitors because it triggers the more obsessive Dark Angels fans.

>>53176397
For those who didn't know, this piece was written by ADB. He made the best depiction of the Lion in one short story.

>>53127906
>why does tg hate them

They have boring, incoherent fluff.