MTG: Legacy General

>>53112001
So is death wish good enough to make legacy shadow good?

Which Hymn to Tourach art should I use? If I were to run 4 in a deck, should I run all the 4 original versions? Why do people hate the wolf one?

>>53112150
because they're retarded. that isn't even a wolf, its a coyote.

>>53112150
my guess it's because the wolf has down syndrome

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>>53112150
I prefer this art myself, desu

>>53112251
Yeah so do I, but all 4 has a cool appeal.

>>53112187
lol normies

>>53112150

I would go with one copy of each art. I do the same with basic lands. Gotta have variety!

>>53112150
EMA printing best printing

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>>53112150
I'm partial to Hoover's, that old guy looks like he's up to something awful.

Weathered Wayfarer was mentioned last thread, do you think some brew witthem and KotR could work? Maybe even Land Tax Scroll Rack to take advantage of all the shuffle effects?

Nice dead format you boys have here

>>53115433
better good and dead than alive but shit

>>53115433
Yeah.

>>53115433
As opposed to the format where you're on suicide watch every 2 months due to your deck having the very real chance to get banned, or the weak-ass format with the most boring meta imaginable?

>>53115545
>>53115613
Kek. Stay salty

>>53115713
0/10

>>53115731
It's not a zero if you reply

>>53115747
0

how does Esper stoneblade matchup against Grixis Delver? I don't have a Fire&Ice or Academy Ruins yet but will be getting one of each soon, do I need more than 2 snaps?

>>53116301
For snaps it depends on how many of your other threats do you have, like tnn, etc

>>53116301
Well I've got 2 TNN so only 8 creatures total, is there a magic number I should try to hit?

>>53116632
>>53116322
I replied to the wrong post like a dummy

Well I took my BUG Explorer DDFT list to a GPT and didn't do hot. Had some bad luck with a little good luck mixed in, but I think I'm going to be off Doomsday for a little while, at least in paper while I brew something up.

report:
r1 vs 4c Loam (0-2): g1, Couldn't find a Decay for Chalice in time. G2, sideboarded badly then mulled to 5. Canonist and Bob beat me down and I couldn't get anything going. We played a few rounds before and after with my improved sideboard plan and it went better.

r2 vs Aluren (2-1): G1 they cascade into a thoughtseize to take my Doomsday. I rip another off the top and win. G2 they get Leovold down and jund me out before I find an answer. G3, between fetches and Veteran beats, they're at 9 before they find and play Leovold. I topdeck tendrils and send 5 copies at them. They draw force and a blue card, but forcing 1 copy would leave them still dead at 8.

r3 vs Bug (1-2): I take game one, ripping apart his hand with discard and killing him with 2 life left. Games 2 and 3 are grindfests but I can't manage to put it together.

r4 vs UB Prison(1-2): this guy was playing a brew with a ton of countermagic and land hate. G1 he keeps me locked down and slowly kills me. G2 I work my way through the countermagic and win at 1 life. G3 I rip his hand apart and have everything I need to combo but I'm one mana short. Over the next ~10 turns, I fail to draw mana and he rebuilds his hand. I finally draw a fetchland, only to have it stifled. I don't win. I dropped here.

SO the deck doesn't feel horrible but it doesn't feel good either. Even when it wins it feels like it was by the skin of its teeth. Vet/Therapy is great, and Doomsday is still a very powerful card, but the deck has lost a lot of the lategame resillience and grind ability that Top gave it. Gonna keep brewing with Doomsday, but I think I'm off the deck for paper events for a while.

>>53116978
rip

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-wubrg-36637#online

how does this deck win?

>>53117638
Seems very obvious

>>53117638
Big Bird

>>53117761
so it casts as many spells as possible with jeskai untap and mana abilities then swings?

seems really all in and time to setup that combo

>>53117782
I played it before the probe ban. It turns out when your whole deck is cantrips you can put a combo together. Consistent turn threes. Can't beat jund tho

>>53117782
When dig and cruise were in the format (and probe) it was busted.

>>53116632
I'd aim to have 10ish wincons whether the creatures or creature and jaces

>>53117782

There's other stuff it can do, too. Glittering Wish can either find the Ascendancy or find a Blood out of the sideboard. I'm somewhat surprised that list doesn't run Grapeshot, which I've seen from such lists before.

There's a lot you can do with an X/X creature that generates mana when your whole deck draws cards.

>>53116978

Interesting tech, though I'm sorry to hear it didn't work out that well. I was on AnT (surprise of surprises).

R1—Dark Depths (2–0): G1, managed to hit my stride off Ad Nauseam. Good times. G2, he kept a lackluster hand and I ground it out before he could put together Marit Lage.
R2—BReanimator (1–2): G1 Chancellor on T2. Good times. G2, I managed to hold off his initial combo with a Duress, then we sort of stumbled around looking for cards. SExtraction and Faerie Macabre held down the fort for around ten turns. G3, early Chancellor screwed me.
R3—Aluren (0–2): G1, he managed the combo while I was durdling a fair bit. G2, I punted. Hard. Had the combo, but forgot that he'd taken my Ad Nauseam with Thoughtseize on T1. Tutored for nothing and lost.
R4—PSI (2–0): G1, opponent missed a play that would've gotten him his draw-4s, but I had a lot of discards that shredded his hand. G2, I hit an enabler and started building a board. He started to combo, but poor topdecks left him without plays.
R5—Psychic Venom.dec(2–0): Not a whole lot to say; had the combo and he didn't have his win conditions. Game 2 was a bit closer; got a lot of stuff exiled out of my 'yard in response to a Cabal Ritual, so I had to do some gymnastics to put together the mana.

DDFT Guy, good effort in this brave new Topless world, and commiserations. If you're looking to try something else, join us in the world of Ants. It's comfy down here.

>>53118186
I think I'm probably going to throw together ANT for now while I brew. Might try out an ANT list with Burning Wish since I liked the flexibility it gave to DDFT.

>>53118186
>Psychic Venom

...I'm guessing this isn't referring to the two-mana land enchantment.

>>53115433
I'd rather it be dead than shit. why bother making a good deck if its just gonna be banned?

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Pickups from LGS 25% off sale yesterday.

>>53118424

Give it a go! I tried it and wasn't impressed, but I'm running on a somewhat grindy setup (2x Past in Flames, no Petitions). I'd definitely bring in a second red source if I were to run Burning Wish, but maybe I'm doing it wrong.

On an unrelated note, I realized about halfway through the tournament that I'd have done much better if I'd jammed All Spells. Not sure I'll ever say that again, but I nostalged a bit.

>>53119039
Nice haul man!

Dead format
Dead thread

Like pottery

Bump in the night

>>53118780

Oh shit, it actually DOES, and Mana Web. What an interesting idea for a deck!

http://www.mtgfanatic.com/decks/viewdeck.aspx?id=151098&page=1&pagesize=25

>>53126483
Well I'll be damned, a $40 Legacy deck. I don't like Caustic Tar without any mana accelerants, but since it's only a 2-of I guess it's playable.

>>53126644
There are considerably less budget friendly options
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/181707-ub-venom-deck-help

>>53126644
>>53126483

Keep in mind that Frantic Search is banned.

Yeah, it definitely needs some accelerants, but there's definitely some potential there. No reason to use Caustic Tar, I don't think; the guy I played was using Contaminated Ground, which (ostensibly) can have the benefit of turning opponents' Cradles and stuff into swamps.

I'll have to ask if I can see the guy's list next time I play him. He had Wastelands and maybe Ports, but I also think he was trying hard to avoid Legacy staples more broadly, so I don't really know what his list looked like.

>>53126752
I would complain about how Tabernacle is only in there because it's a big money card but I realize now it's retardedly strong with the Psychic Venom strategy.

>Mana Short
I'm a little hard now.

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Could this card see play as a burning wish target? Is it better than meltdown?

>>53127259
I think Meltdown is better. If the meta shifted and Trini Smokestacks decks became more playable then it would be good but as is it mostly gets cast for 1 to get around Chalices iirc.

>>53127367
I think by force is better for destroying spheres, meltdown is a little better for chalices. But meltdown sucks for the odd lodestone golem or whatever. Meltdown gets better than by force if they have 3 or more thorn/sphere, but if they do, you're probably fucked already.

>>53126644
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1me_bqX45Fh_auKaETDcE6GgxWq569qspmBk1VoOtBHU/edit?usp=sharing
btw this should be in OP

Feeling like i should get in on this gpt report shit, so here it is.

I was playing PSI for the first time ever at any kind of competitive level. I built the deck right after bombing out of Worcester on a SITES build, but then never really jammed games to try ro get practiced with it. I did, however, come with a highly experimental sideboard that seems to have real potential.

R1 vs Burn. Whiff after whiff got me stomped 2-0. It's aggravating because that should be a good matchup for me, but it happens. Shrug it off.

R2 vs some kind of BUG deck (1-2) Got forced a bunch g1, which is to be expected. In goes the whole sideboard:
4x Dark depths
4x vampire hexmage
4x sylvan scrying
3x thespian stage
Out come the belchers, land grants, pacts, and storm wincons.
And it worked BEAUTIFULLY. Marit lage t3 for the win.
I lost round 3 because i stupidly made no effort to conceal the fact that i wasnt changing my sideboard plan again, and he sided perfectly and got me.

R3 vs Psychic Venom: The Deckening (2-0). I eked out a g1 win through a lot of counterspells, but it took like 10 turns and his contaminated grounds almost got me. G2 i transformed into turbo depths, got a marit lage out fairly quickly, and then he gigadrowsed my marit lage and my bayou with 2 psychic venom on it like 3 turns in a row. Finally got through at 1 life.

R4 vs AnT (0-2) g1 i spent several turns "stuck" waiting for a black source. I had a pact and a guide in my hand, but i forgot there was a wild cantor in my deck that i could use to fix for black. Big time durrrrr moment that lost me the game. G2 i tried to go off, but had bad draw4s and what little fuel i did get got hit with discard. Lost very fairly. Felt fine.

R5 vs im honestly not sure (2-0). I won the die roll. By this point i was remembering how to play magic. Got a t1 tendrils for exactly 20. Felt nice. G2, he plays a fetchland and passes. I slam a belcher and get him. Never saw him cast a spell.

>>53130033
This thing is great. I think it was in the OP for a bit and then it got lost. A lot of those decks kind of suck but it's still a great resource and there are some perfectly fine decks in there.

>>53130785
Moral of the story, PSI is the def tightest playing SI build, but variance is totally still a thing. Hyper Depths board is neat and so far seems fun and good if you play it smart, but definitely needs more testing to be sure.

>>53130910
What's the P stand for? Professional? Pro-Bono?

>>53131940
Pact (Of Negation)

>>53132032
Its Summoner's Pact, actually.

>>53132032
I thought it was for summoner's pact

>>53130785
What's your list?

>>53132706
MB
4x infernal contract
4x cruel bargain
4x infernal tutor
4x land grant
4x summoners pact
4x cabal ritual
4x dark ritual
4x culling the weak
4x lotus petal
4x lions eye diamond
4x chrome mox
4x elvish spirit guide
4x goblin charbelcher
1x tendrils
1x empty the warrens
1x eternal witness
1x illgotten gains
1x deathrite shaman
1x wild cantor
1x bayou
1x dryad arbor

SB
4x dark depths
4x hexmage
4x sylvan scrying
3x thespian stage

Maindeck is pretty stock, although id like to give Slithermuse a test drive sometime too. The sideboard is the really spicy shit.

>>53132841
If i were going to take anything out to try Slithermuse, itd probably be EtW. Ive never played it. Never felt like i wanted to turor for it either.

>>53132841
I hate the charbelcher and EtW, and eternal witness. Slithermuse has been wonderful to me and I suggest it strongly

>>53118094
does Gideon AoZ count as a wincon or should I keep him SB

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>>53112150
This digital alter for non-sanctioned play.

>>53135174
10/10 would bork again

>>53130910
Cocaine smoking is fun, does that mean you should do it? In the middle of an RPG I thought it would be fun to get up and pull down my trousers and take a fat fucking shit all over the gaming table, burying my friend's miniatures under a torrent of fecal matter. That would have been amazingly fun! But did I do it? No. because "fun" is the reasoning of a fucking child. If you base whether or not you do something off of whether or not it is "fun" then you are a mental infant who is not fit to live in adult society.

Similarly, when you do things in a card game because they are "fun" you are being a fucking asshole. "Well I'm going to destroy the believably of this match by letting my card fly to the goddamn moon on his Jump check because he got a NATuRAL TWENTY and if anything else happens, well, that would be against the spirit of the game, which is to have FUN, right guys? Even if we are fucking over the entire story and destroying the point of playing an RPG, it's okay, because as long as we are having FUN with it, that makes it a good thing, right?"

That is what you sound like.

>>53136356
Oh, okay.

>>53136356
What the fuck are you talking about you literal sperg? I can't tell if you're arguing that having fun is /nofun/ or that card games are deadly serious and should never be taken lightly in any situation anywhere. Either way you sound so unimaginably retarded I doubt you could see the problems you're arguing even if they slapped you in the face, pissed on your card collection and called themselves Owen Turtenwald. If your sole reason to play Magic is to have fun, that's your business. If you get a kick out of sideboarding Turbo Depths into Spanish Inquisition, that's your business. If you think every game is a deadly serious battle of wits between high functioning super geniuses, that's your business. But the minute you start telling me how to enjoy the game and how to play or how not to play outside of the basic rules of the game, you can shove a stick up your ass and fuck off to wherever you came from.

Tl;dr your post is shit, you are shit, I'm mad and I hope you choke on a bag of dicks

>>53136356
I think you missed your target.

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What about Stoneblade with a one of Elbrus ?

>>53136356
I FULLY AGREE NEXT TIME I ROLL A NAT 30 IN MY UPKEEP ALL MY +1/+1 COUNTERS WILL STAY FULLY GROUNDED I HAVE SEEN THE ERROR OF MY WAYS

>>53136644
Who gives a fuck what people remember? It happened. That's what happened in the match. Your card died being stabbed by goblins. That's it. Not everything has to be a fucking Polaroid moment. Stop thinking that the second that something stops being exciting and oh-so-interesting that you need to inject some shit to spice it up. Because god forbid there's a slow moment in your aspergers-infused roller-coaster of a game. For fucks sake, man, it's a card game, not a Die Hard action thriller. If your memorable game events are all manufactured bullshit they aren't going to have much worth. It's one thing to have your cards drive a burning tank through a wall using the smoke pouring from it to give his soldiers cover to cross the road and march to victory, in a fucking competitive game where nothing has any grounding. It's quite another when you actually pull it off within the rules, instead of ignoring them for something more "memorable" that isn't actually memorable, it's just hollow bullshit that you made up.

I'll wait for you to respond with "lmao tcgs are all hollow made-up bullshit so it doesn't matter" just to prove you're a stupid fuck who doesn't care about these games, only about getting your way so you can post your epic story on /r/cardgames for upvotes.

>>53112001
>look up to see what Wizards has banned recently
>top banned

FUCKING YES. Might actually get back in the game now.

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>>53137694
what the fuck

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>>53138312
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN SO MAD THAT YOU COULD JUST DESTROY TARGET NONLAND PERMANENT WITH CONVERTED MANA COST 3 OR LESS

I FEEL LIKE YOU GET ME

>>53138312
this guy gets it. it's all about the upvotes. /tg/ needs an upvote button so I can like everything this guy posts. Rule of Cool and Nat 40's are ruining Netrunner.

>>53138336

If you can't play against top why would you even be playing legacy?

>>53138312
Seriously, what are you arguing? That decks made for fun aren't allowed in Magic?

>>53134750
I have seen some lists main deck him, but that was to fight miracles, in that slot of I have nahiri the lithomancer, cause she is dope

>>53130033
Alright buddy it's going in the next one

a

>>53138554
MY ANGER IS UNENDING

is mtgo still worth playing

>>53138554
I counter your decay by appealing to the rules of the game!

What's the next card that's going to be banned? I want to be ahead of the curve on this one so I'm not left without a deck.

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>>53115433
>>53115713
>is so bored in his shit format's thread that he comes into other formats' threads just to complain
>we're the salty ones

>>53116978
My condolences

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>>53118186
>>53130785

>>53142735
Brainstorm or nothing

>>53142735
No changes. Check back in 3 years.

>>53143213
There is absolutely no chance this will happen.

>>53118817
>Sensei's divining Top kek

>>53134037
Belcher has pulled more than enough weight for me so far. Id consider cutting 1, but im definitely leaving most of them in. Slithermuse will make its way into the deck eventually. Eternal witness has won me a couple game but its mana cost is pretty green intensive so im not entirely sold on it. It needs more testing but i really like the idea of being able to pact for a card in my graveyard.

>>53143668
I know, but it's the only card I can think of that's "worthy" of a ban. If they printed Brainstorm today, the ban discussion would be high on the agenda (Legacy also would be a totally different format of course).

The reason Brainstorm is considered a format-defining card, and not format-warping is because we're so used to it being around.

Banning Brainstorm is a fun thought experiment, but ultimately pointless since it's so ingrained in the format it's unlikely to catch a ban, even though you could probably justify it logically.

P.S.: I play and love Brainstorm and would probably quit Legacy if they ever decided to axe it, but it's power to turn hopeless games around is pretty unparallelled.

>>53141194
Nevermore works too

>>53143711
Try skullwinder.

>>53143787
Thats cool, didnt know that card existed. It blocks better than EW if youre in that sad situation where blocking becomes necessary. And while i don't like my opponent getting a card back too, i guess its not any worse than IGG in that respect.

>>53144415
Yeah if you're in the throes of your combo and it resolves they likely don't have anything to stop you in your graveyard. Worth a try I think.

>>53142772
>Posts Sabrina the Teenage Witch memes
I'd question your integrity on just about anything senpai.

>>53139593
Miracles is dead. DEAD.

>>53141152
of course
does it have some occasional bugs? fuck yes it does

>>53146738
I've had more bugs in the past few days than in the last year. Not sure what happened but for a long time my mtgo experience had been smooth as butter. I do recommend it. I think the level of competition is consistently higher than on xmage, certainly higher than on cockatrice.

So I've been playing Burning ANT online for a few days and it feels like storm easy mode after playing doomsday for so long. It's not that the lines are much easier, but rather that the deck is SO much more forgiving. You can make mistakes and still win. It's insane. I misclicked myself out of an easy win vs tin fins, then they tried to showboat and ended up whiffing but at 45 life after a bunch of children
Of korlis activations. On my turn I just went off again out of my graveyarday and domed them with 23 copies of tendrils. Retard game all around.

>>53149458
>23 copies
It's like you've been training with weighted braces in a gravity chamber on Namek. You get back to earth and accidentally craterize the first guy you try to shake hands with.

>>53142735
When we get top8 results from next major tournaments, we will know. It's the top deck that gets hit. As grixis delver is in the dangerous "13% of meta" zone, we will probably see brainstorm ban after it wins 2 tournaments in a row.

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>>53143721

I think the reason Brainstorm is considered a format-defining card is that it produces deck-design space rather than crushing it. It's worth pointing out that Sensei's Top did, too, so though I'm glad Miracles is gone, it was definitely the wrong card to hit.

>>53149458

I've played a few of those.

>>53152705

I don't think that's likely to happen. Miracles' "13%" number was actually lower than it had been before and would've been again.

>>53136356

>Similarly, when you do things in a card game because they are "fun" you are being a fucking asshole.

Never change, /tg/!

Bump

Lich is coming in the mail soon, I can't wait to go to FNM and play Magic again.

>>53149458
Hit me with a list senpai.

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>>53155761
here you go senpai. Sideboard is a little scattered still but I like the maindeck pretty well.

Kefnet Tax Rack

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Reminder that even though we're slow this general's worst days are behind it

>>53161554
Namefags ruined this general

>>53161554
Fucking namefags ruins everything.

>>53163609
Thanks pal but I already handled it.

Is leovold going to be banned soon?
I'll play again only once he is removed

>>53163974
Leo will never be banned. They're just going to keep printing better hatebears. Give it a couple years and leovold will seem shitty compared to the 2 mana hex proof magu's of the trinisphere they'll print.

>>53164036
>If Magus of the Trinisphere is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it on the battlefield.

>>53164165
10/10
power/toughness

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>>53130785
>>53132841
Thanks for the report, neat sideboard - transformative shit feels good when you can make it work.
Do you mostly use Culling the Weak on Deathrite Shaman? I have seen other Summoner's Pact Spanish Inquisition builds run a singleton Skyshroud Cutter for better mana return to keep the value train running.
The whiffiness and getting stuck you mention about the deck concerns me. And I'm not a fan of Dark Depths without Crop Rotation and Urborg somewhere in the 75.

I have been tempted to build some variant of ritual-based storm but I can't make up my mind on what to build.

I went ahead and proxied a High Tide deck, enjoyed it so much I bought into Time Spirals+Meditates.
High Tide is super straightforward to build Vs all the ritual-based storm decks.

Ritual storm decks leave you so spoiled for choice it's a fucking mess.

Ad Nauseam?
Summoner's Pact + Land Grant shenanigans?
Go black+red for extra rituals, Manamorphose and Past in Flames?
Mox Opal? Mox Diamond?
Attempt to exploit Cruel Bargain+Infernal Contract?
Go full retard and go the Griselbrand route with Tin Fins?

Every option seems somehow shitty yet broken.
What an exhausting mess.

>>53165301
A big part of what I liked about Doomsday was that there was no fizzling. No reliance on ad nauseam, no hoping you could chain together draw4's. Just clean deterministic kills. Something that drives me away from a deck like high tide is how you can make like to 60 mana and cast 5 time spirals and still have an outside shot at whiffing.

>>53116978
Since you're running green have you tried swapping the ponders for like Mirri's Guile or something

>>53165654
I thought about it as well as sylvan library. The problem is that neither of them replace the most important function of top, which was drawing 1 card for free any time.

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>>53165507
I think I don't actually mind the whiffing risk in High Tide.
I had a quick think about it, and I think that's because the deck just doesn't feel as durdley while you are trying to go off.
Some hands you can get in certain ritual storm variants honestly make me feel embarrassed. Like "what the fuck am I playing?"
I don't think the Summoner's Pact builds/Charbelcher builds are for me.
I guess I like to feel like individual pieces can pull their own weight more.

What's your own take on whiff/durdle/fail risk?
What kind of whiffing can you tolerate, when is it feelbad for you?
And in posing the question, I'm genuinely curious what others think too, do chime in with your own experiences/feels about it folks.

>>53164227
3's obviously.

>>53166282
Personally I like my whiff chance to be as near 0 as possible. I'm strongly considering cutting ad nauseam from the list I'm playing these days because it's just not great.

>>53165301
Deathrite gets Culled sometimes, but i think my most common cull is Dryad Arbor. Ive never tried skyshroud cutter so i cant attrst to its quality.

I dont think you really need urborg in the 75 for this, there's so much free mana that black is rarely an issue. Crop rotation doesnt feel that necessary either, but Only because youre not really trying to go fast. You can, but dont have to.

In all honesty i think the usual carpet of flowers/tomb og urami board would be better, but dd is so unwxpwcted that often people cant deal.

>>53167117
wow, I wouldn't have figured ad nauseam whiffs to be a deal breaker.
I guess it makes sense from the point of view of being a less reliable/backfiring wincon.

>>53167157
Dryad Arbor does seem like good cull fodder, especially if land light for the purpose of belcher.
It must give you tons of consistency between Land Grant and Summoner's Pact.
How do you handle Land Grant + Pact floods?

>>53166282

I've found that there's actually a pretty low risk of whiffing off of Ad Nauseam if you're over 17 life pretty much regardless of the build. Obviously, the lower your life-total and the greater the number of high-costed cards, the higher your chances of failing. The lowest-risk Ad Nauseam build is 2x Past in Flames, 1x Tendrils, and the one I've found to be the worst is 2x Past in Flames, 1x Tendrils, 1x Petition, even from 20 life. I haven't tested—and won't test—Grim Tutor.

I think people often eschew Ad Nauseam with the reasoning that being at a lower life total effectively turns off the card, but it's often not appreciably different for Empty the Warrens, and they're both loads faster than kill-chains without them almost all the time.

I'm totally in agreement about the increased certainty of Doomsday builds, but they're open to a number of things the others aren't—or that the other builds are built to circumvent—like Price of Progress.

It's all a trade-off, I guess. I just don't mind taking risks when the odds are generally pretty strongly in my favor.

>>53172662
for me since I played Doomsday for so long, ad nauseam feels like pointless risk to me. In my reletively short time playing Burning ANT, I haven't noticed much difference in speed between a AN attempt and a PiF loop or a tutor chain. But my Doomsday habits definitely have affected my play. I tend to be either very conservative with my cantrips, and i tend to angle for risk-averse sorts of plays.

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So guys I remeber a while ago we had a merfolk nic fit list, does anyone still have it?

how come UW/UWB stoneblade doesn't run academy ruins? Is it really not worth it to be able to recur your equipment?

>>53174189
I don't know what you're talking about I see lots of lists with an Academy ruins. My deathblade list runs one actually but I'm probably gonna cut it because I get BTFOD by moon

>>53115433
Currently applies to every format.

What's the best cheap deck nowadays, Burn or Landless Dredge?

>>53174908
well burn is an actually decent deck that can do quite well in certain metagames and won't out you as a pleb who bought some shitty hundred dollar pile just to say you have a legacy deck.

>>53174908
The netdecked lists are all multicoloured, but you can still play mono green elves.

>>53175533
you still need cradles though, which are more expensive than either of those decks

>>53175605
The deck functions basically fine without Cradles. It's sub-optimal to not have them but it's still good enough.

>>53172918

The potential for T1–2 wins is higher with Ad Nauseam in the deck because it's better in/with god-hands and hands with lots of black rituals that lack LED or mana-rocks. One thing that's important to consider is that you need a larger surplus of early spells or opening-hand rituals to make Past in Flames give you a lethal line than you do with Ad Nauseam.

A lot of people have started moving Ad Nauseam to the sideboard to run Empty the Warrens maindeck. That's fine, and I don't think that it's appreciably worse in G1 against a lot of decks, but it won't net you a same-turn win, and it's also soft to a lot of things. Ad Nauseam has a few distinct advantages both for fast combos and in later turns:
—You can go off and win in the same turn; Empty forces you to pass.
—Ad Nauseam is the only spell that nets you more than one card (which is to say that, though Brainstorm replaces cards in your hand, your hand-size doesn't increase). Ad Nauseam usually requires rituals, but that's usually acceptable because you'll get a lot of mileage out of it.
—You get around things that prevent you from "drawing" cards, because Ad Nauseam "reveals and puts into your hand" the cards.
—It's an instant.

I definitely understand your reluctance to rely on it, and it definitely results in kills much less frequently than Past in Flames (I think it's about on par with Tutor-chain kills). I just think that it's rarely a card you don't want to topdeck, it gets around a lot of left-field stuff that's been cropping up more and more these days, and the ability to net multiple cards off of one spell is great.

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someone talk me out of buying into legacy via tin fins.
i already have modern grishoalbrand and shop allows proxies so i'm about 200$ out

>>53174908
Just play Burn. It's got less of a stigma in Legacy than in Modern because the deck is actually a gorgeous work of red art. Manaless Dredge will out you as a That Guy and you will fold to an opening Leyline of the Void.

>>53177700
I don't know pal sounds like you should buy into tin fins

Kefnet + Squadron Hawks

>>53178980
Fresh memes, get ur fresh hot meme$!

Might be a dumb question, but why doesn't Reanimator run a LED Infernal package? they want to pitch their hand and run enough fast mana to play Infernal turn 1 with a LED.

>>53177700
You should buy into tin fins my brother.

>>53181200
Burning reanimator does but it's not widely played. It's the most glass-cannon style build.

>>53181251
To clarify: they run burning wish. Not infernal tutor.

>>53181200
Generally they want to dump a target and unburial rights off LED rather than dick around with infernal.

>>53178036

>it's got less of a stigma
>this is what burn players actually believe

At least dredge requires some thought games 2/3

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>>53178036
Seconding this.

Burn has better game against Storm, which will always see play.

Burn is a fun mirror match too. Short and sweet.

Burn can also be quite easily upgraded, and you can splash a color to deal with certain metas.


Manaless dredge is a meme deck that will one day become broken only to be crippled by a ban.
Why anyone would want to main such a deck is beyond me. It's just a deck that is sometimes well positioned and lets you be a chucklefuck much like Charbelcher.

Burn will only ever continue to improve.

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>tfw on the fence about selling some of my Karns to buy Jaces

I lik having real cards but I already proxy most of my legacy deck anyway

>>53177700
Depending on how many proxies you are allowed you could try decks like mono red sneak attack as well.

Is this a real deck?
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15504&d=294520&f=LE

>>53182420
No

>>53182420
Seems like a spicy take on a Tezzerator deck.

>>53182420
I don't think so, but it can definitely win games out of the blue with a turn 1 4 drop walker.. That's how Legacy often is though, an offbeat deck can cheese wins with unusual strats.

>>53182420
WhIle I don't think the deck is good and it probably should have chalice main, it's worth noting that many of its lockpieces can't be abrupt decayed.

>>53181437
It takes the same amount of skill to master Dredge as it does to master Burn, don't delude yourself into believing otherwise.

>>53182642

>one requires you to play around efficient, under-costed gy hate at the expense of losing massive chunks of your deck
>one requires you to play your 2cmc damage at their face instead of your 1cmc spells when someone fruitlessly plays chalice for 1

Really makes you think

Hello /tg/ make me a deck with Worship and Blurred mongoose. Doesnt need to be tier 1 just for a nice kitchen table legacy with playgroup

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>>53112001
>Mfw the Legacy general has Death's Shadow for its image and the Modern general has Delver of Secrets for its image

>>53184605
1x Worship
1x Blurred Mongoose
1x Despise
1x Forest
1x Plains
95x Swamps

>>53184605

4x Blurred Mongoose
4x Lost in the Woods
2x Worship
4x Enlightened Tutor
4x Savannah
4x Temple Garden
38x Forest


Captcha: Banks Close

>>53184605
4x worship
4x blurred mongoose
4x tnn
4x drs
4x stoneforge mystic
4x brainstorm
4x ponder
4x fow
4x daze
1x batters kill
1x jitters
22x lands
Go to town

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>>53156673
Reminds me of http://www.theepicstorm.com/a-storm-hybrid/ . I'm tempted to revisit it or my previous TNT-shit-build. If I'd try Cook's hybrid again I'd probably change 2 BW into 1 tendrils and 1 Mox.

Also, look what showed up in the mail today! My set is complete! ^^

>>53185168
I've been seeing this 4c death shadow deck a lot on mtgo. Not sure it's put up any real results and it seems shitty because I've been beating it with my cappy doomsday brews. But someone's trying to play it in legacy.

>>53186231
Hm never saw that article but I had been thinkin about a list a lot like that recently. Squeezing one PIF and a tendrils into the main deck of TES. Might have to give it a go.

>>53178707
>>53181216
hard to argue with that

>>53182343
interesting. i hadn't considered that. i am into turn 1 blood moons but chalices plus sol lands make big red more expensive..

>>53185168
kek

What are some tools a mono green/colorless deck could use to sideboard in against charbelcher? All I can think of is pithing needle and mindbreak trap.

>>53186647
T1 Blood Moon or Trinisphere is basically my favorite play in Magic.

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Help
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/poques/

>>53187088
Cosnider lingering souls

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>>53187162
Hm, I've seen it on other lists, but never in play.
So I'd have tokens to deal continuous damage, avoid single target removal spells and eventually block... sounds good, thanks.

>>53187000
turn 1 lock is a good time but i think turn 1 emrakul or 15 tendrils is where my heart truly lies

>>53188027
I mean, you can also sneak attack an emrakul or worldspine wurm t1 if that's your jam.

why the fuck would you play manaless dredge if you can afford LEDs?

>>53186256
>I've been seeing this 4c death shadow deck a lot on mtgo. Not sure it's put up any real results and it seems shitty because I've been beating it with my cappy doomsday brews. But someone's trying to play it in legacy.

Hasn't seen any 5-0's yet, that's for sure. Personally I really liked Bob Huang's approach to a Grixis version, but there's some stuff I would change. You can see it on twitch with the name griselpuff

I'd prefer a version that used Death Shadow as if it was some sort of Nimble Mongoose. Also, Stubborn Denial needs to be in the deck for sure.

So far I have something like this:

Creatures 14
4x Death Shadow
4x Delver of Secrets
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Gurmag Angler
2x Street Wraith

Sorcery 13
4x Thoughtseize
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Surgical Extraction

Instant 16
4x Brainstorm
2x Force of Will
4x Daze
2x Stubborn Denial
4x Lightning Bolt

Lands 13
4x Polluted Delta
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
1x Blood Crypt
2x Watery Grave
2x Underground Sea

It's not perfect but has 6 free draw spells and then the usual 8 other cantrips.

>>53188209
You're asking the right questions now, anon.

I dont know much about deaths shadow but doesnt a single lightning bolt just win?

>>53188652
>I dont know much about deaths shadow but doesnt a single lightning bolt just win?

Biggest problems for Deaths Shadow Decks are:

>Swords to Plowshares
>True-Name Nemesis

Normally, DS decks want to stabilize at around 7-9 life.

My particular version would have some copies of Temur Battle Rage in the sideboard for trample, and also the maindeck has a surgical and 2 Stubborn Denial for additional countermagic vs Swords

>>53188125
yeah but neither of those kill same turn

>>53175656
>The deck functions basically fine without Cradles.
:/

>>53188821
Sneaking a turn one Worldspine is almost always game, you might lose 1 out of 50 games when on the play. Wurm is a pretty deterministic kill on turn one, the only decks that are going to beat it are TES/ANT, Belcher, and SI with great/nut draws. I have lost a fair number of games after sneaking a turn one Emrakul thought, beat them for 15 and then never found another fatty.

>>53186231

Man, those fakes are awful. They didn't even spell Chrome Mox right!

>>53188209
My only reason is the LEDS are tied up in other decks like storm and Belcher.

Suppose I could make proxies and switch them out, but I like havin as many completed decks as possible.

>>53188930
Not that anon, but the deck didn't focus as much on cradle back with the old legend rule. I remember decks running 2 or 3 because it was a dead a draw.

Granted elves is better being able to cradle twice in a turn. I still wouldn't want less than 4 in the current version.

>>53189263
what i'll probably end up doing is play fins for a while and then switch to sneak attack when i discover the meta is nothing but drs and leovold

>>53112187
>$3000 spent over 3 years
>Worse than meth.
>A gram per day of which costs anywhere from $9,000 to $40,000 a year.

>>53188209

The oft-overlooked strength of manaless Dredge is its resilience to countermagic. The deck came to prominence in the Mental Misstep era, when the only cards that could get countered by Misstep in the deck were Cabal Therapy and Gitaxian Probe. (N.B.: even if Therapy gets countered, you'll still get Bridge from Below triggers.)

Essentially, manaless Dredge's major advantage over LED Dredge was that—historically—the dominant control cards that hosed pretty much everything else were nearly useless against it, and even if opposing decks managed to fend off Therapies and Dread Returns for a while, they'd often still buckle under a pile of zombie tokens.

Unfortunately, the constraints to which the deck is forced to adhere make it really yucky. It can't mulligan. It gets Time Walked in postboard games because the opponent simply chooses to be on the draw. It also gets Time Walked almost every time someone forces it to discard a card or hard-cast a spell. Perhaps most brutally, it has virtually no chance of beating sideboard hate.

Nowadays, I don't think it's ever a good idea to play Manaless. Deathrite Shaman is a one-card autoloss more often than not, people have rediscovered that 1994 graveyard hate was always pretty good, and the metagame that made the deck so dangerous in the first place stopped existing with the ban on Mental Misstep. I've still been tempted to give the deck a spin, but I can't escape the feeling that All Spells does what it does better than it does it, and it's a lot faster. Countermagic is still dangerous for LED Dredge, but again, that deck doesn't need to worry about Missteps, it's better at adapting to (even really punishing) hate, and it's faster.

>>53181437
>>53182642
>>53184236

To paraphrase something from somewhere on the Tubes, Magic is like gymnastics. There are all kinds of gymnastics—some are more elegant, more complicated, and/or harder to do than others—but most people generally just suck at gymnastics.

Here's another doomsday list I've been playing to moderate success. It's still basically a worse version of ANT.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dant-1/

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What is the most patrician Swords printing, /tg/?

>>53199585
Gotta say the Ice Age art is the coolest, although the judge one is 2nd from a more literal angle

>>53199585
I like the newer arts.
Terese Nielsen's art is really good, despite not really communicating the card concept all that well.

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>>53199585
Foglio. Accept no substitute.

>>53199585
I wish we could have nielsen art in the old card frame.

>>53199585
Top right.

>>53200589
>>53201901
correct

Found Thopter foundries and Meek swords. Are they playable in legacy at all or is the artifact destruction too strong?

>>53205364
Tezzerator uses it. Probably more playable now that there's less mb Decay running around.

>>53205364
Absolutely

>>53186948

Those are pretty good answers.

Revoker is also pretty solid there, as is Engineered Explosives/Ratchet Bomb.

>>53205364

I don't think artifact destruction is what you need to worry about. Getting raced is a bigger issue.