Shadow War: Armageddon general /swag/

>>53091747
I know I'm a bit late, but this is the most retarded list I've ever seen. For starters, boltguns can't deal with everything, get some bloody variety in there. Then there's the fact that a Gunner can't actually start with a boltgun, read their wargear properly. Then finally
>Sister with no guns at all
>just a fucking combat knife
You realise pistols aren't free right?

How viable are Imperial Guard/Astra Militarum ?

Is it best to get 2 plasmas from the get go and keep everyone else a basic bitches until you can upgrade?

With the wargear shit, does that apply to starting list building or the entire campaign?

It seems to imply that a unit can never use weapons outside of their wargear in the Resupply option, but I don't really understand why I can't have a Chaos Marine with a power fist or somesuch. Also, where the fuck are lightning claws?

>>53092728
Holy shit you're right though.

At least stick a meltagun with red-dot on that gunner. Drop the unarmed Sister and replace her with a Novice (and for the love of god at least give her a bolt pistol).

This was my base list. Novice has since been promoted and has boltgun, Meltagun specialist has Rapid Fire (1d3 shots), Battle Sisters now have red-dot sights.

Leader
Sister Superior
Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Troopers
Battle Sister
Boltgun

Battle Sister
Boltgun

Specialists
Gunner
Meltagun
Red-dot laser sight

Gunner
Storm Bolter
Red-dot laser sight

New Recruits
Novitiate
Bolt pistol

You can have up to two gunners, and I recommend taking them both. A novice can be promoted to battle sister after 3 missions. If you're going to go all bolt guns you're going to have a bad time.

>>53092804
What are you asking anon ? Will you have chance with Harlies that are build around idea of cheese and dip - nope. Will you have fun if all players in campaign want to have fun and not grow their dick by winning - sure IG are GREAT at fun - lods of weapons to choose from, accest to heavy flamer, Ogryn that is added, very cheep reinforcment and so on - and you can easly go with heads from other empire wfb guys to keep the veteran feel.

If you want to play something competative go guild ball, rune wars or malifaux - or if you are dumb warmahordes

What sort of terrain is needed for SWA? Is there anything more or less mandatory?

>>53092804
Depends on your local meta. I run my guard with three snipers.

>>53093102
More than one level high, so at least two levels, but three is nice. A lot of los blocking terrain, walkways and bridges. Dense terrain. You want to build a literal 3d maze. If it's too open and flat you need more. Google "Necromunda terrain table" and you'll get some ideas of what you need.

>>53091747
Where's your heavy bolter, you need it, it's great.

>>53091902
Slippery slope fallacy. Autogun/Lasgun is pretty much the same.

>>53091950
This is what I wanted to see. Juve should be 3rd, Heavy should be 4th in the list. They should also get the same income and experience as everyone else desu.

>>53092313
I am one of the (You)s from yesterday mentioning the FAQ not going over the more than 2 boneswords thing. I am all for the idea of more than 2 boneswords being used in melee, but I was simply pointing out how the FAQ doesn't address this and therefore how people will continue with "Sure you can have 3-4 parries with 3-4 boneswords, but can you attack with them?"

DESU it really doesn't matter on a warrior with that many attacks.

>>53092804
They're mot good, lasguns are worthless, bring as many spec weapons as you can.

>>53093009
Better but I'd really really recommend a Heavy Bolter. It's the best weapon in SW:A I'm sure.

>>53093102
Basically just lots of it, and for it to have varying elevation.

>>53093181
>Slippery slope fallacy. Autogun/Lasgun is pretty much the same.
Did you even read my post? I said it might not be relevant in the las/auto example, but one thing quickly leads to another. I've experienced it first hand with Necromunda and lazy players more than once.

>>53091950
Bretty gud.

I still do want to see actual buying lists for SWA though.

I have some nurgle chaos space marines, are they any good in shadow war?

>>53093227
They're pretty good. Needs cultists for meatshields.

>>53093181
Heavy Bolter is 180pts and I'm too tight arse to sell a PC.

>>53093227
Nurgle seems to be the widely agreed on best option in most cases for CSM. Being the only T5 basic units in the game outside of random advances is pretty damn useful.

>>53093252
But Undivided should always be the choice for the leader. +1 leadership is great, and can often win games.

>>53093209
You'd be annoyed if someone had a lasgun that was an autogun. Why would you be annoyed? Because you believe that might make them think it's okay to do counts-as with more extreme examples that actually matter?

I did read your post. What I said still stands. Autogun/Lasgun counts as is perfectly fine.

>>53093244
It's worth 180 points. I mean look at it, it'll wreck everything it touches.

>>53093273
>Autogun/Lasgun counts as is perfectly fine.
Unless it is a lasgun with a hot-shot power pack represented by an autogun.

That's terrible.

>>53093240
Any point in buying melee weapons for cultists or will they be fine with an autopistol?

>>53093273
I agree that the heavy bolter is pretty godly. Question: Would you consider it a better buy than an Autocannon in a chaos list?

Autocannon is cheaper, high impact, and multiwound. It fires half as many times though. I'm torn myself.

Also, how useful are frag grenades?

>>53093334
Melee weapons are overcosted for what they do. If you want a melee guy, you can spend 15 points on a sword, or 15 points on a pistol. Go for the pistol. I personally run mine with autoguns or shotguns, and toss them in melee only really to soften up targets for my marines in multi-assaults.

>>53093259
Depend, Iron Jaw Muscle Skill at T5 are no joke. At T6 he's basicly boss in melee. Considering The Chaos leader will be doing lots of melee.

>>53093273
>Because you believe that might make them think it's okay to do counts-as with more extreme examples
Yes, exactly. I would be annoyed at someone doing the las/auto switch just because that tells me that later they'll be asking to do more extreme counts as and they'll be pissed off for me saying no to that but not to auto/las. Again, talking from personal experience. It's happened more than once.

>>53093374
Yup I don't let my opponents get their foot in the door of "counts-as" unless they're my friends and I trust them (and I know they're not just being lazy)

>>53093181
Is it worth taking shotguns over lasguns? I was thinking lasguns with scopes might be good for keeping enemies pinned

>>53093368
being tough doesn't help if 2-3 guys die, then a bottle test is failed. Also, against any list designed for CC, T6 doesn't help. Wyches laugh with poison, Tyranids have enough Str to negate it, and Harlies use neuro-disruptors.

>>53093426

Did you even know what Iron Jaw is?

>>53093426
against dedicated melee, really only MoT matters. Maybe MoK or MoS, but often are corner cases. I feel like Chaos Undivided is the right choice for the leader basically all the time, unless you have a fluff reason.

>>53093438
Yeah. Its a tougness test to avoid being wounded. Its also a skill that needs to be rolled, so I don't build a list expecting to get it. What I do expect to be taking is bottle tests. In almost every game I've either played or watched, it ended with a bottle test. So moving one step up the bell curve is the best thing. Also, for Iron Jaw, T5 is the same as T6, you are still failing on a six.

>>53093390
Exactly. Like, if I know a friend actually is working on a model with a certain loadout, then it's a nobrainer. But a random person showing up at the lgs hoping to get away with even a small thing is a warning signal.

>>53093456
T5, fail on 5,6

T6 fail on 6.

>>53093510
A Stat test is passed if you are equal to or less then your stat. Not less than.

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>>53093525

>>53093340
It also has a better ammo roll. You'd be more likely to run out of ammo with the Heavy Bolter.

I'd still prefer Heavy Bolter myself, but if you're worried about those ammo rolls and want to go cheaper, autocannon is good.

>>53093288
Well hotshot power packs are worthless untill late game anyway. You'd be better off buying anything else you can before that.

>>53093374
That's why I said slippery slope fallacy. Did you read what I said?

>>53093420
In general they're both worthless, but on veteran guardsmen with red dots they'd be pretty good for pinning. Shotguns ignore cover with blast shot to my memory, which can help. You probably shouldn't be on maps or playing scenarios where you expect to be shooting over 24 inches.

>>53093556
>slippery slope
It's a fallacy in informal logic, yes. But to ignore common sense and experience is a real life fallacy.

>>53093342
Extremely. But less life-savingly amazing than krak.

>>53093164
IDK if you necessarily need to go full underhive, but it definitely needs to be dense - I could see running a game with lots of forests and small hills, for example. Less than 24" of LOS from any given angle is your goal.

>>53093533
Whoops, forgot Iron jaw added a +1.
Doesn't change the fact that hoping to roll a skill up and then a 6 on 2 dice is a stupid thing to loose several games over due to bottling.

>>53093594
I mean sure I know there's no way to agree to counting autoguns=lasguns but also disagree with a bolt pistol=melta gun... I mean it's basicallly the same thing right.

What's the best skill table to be rolling on for SoB Gunners?
I've only just realized that fully half the shooting table is useless to them. Is it still worth it to aim for crack shot/marksman/ammo hound, or would prioritizing guerilla or ferocity skills work out better in the long run?

>>53093556
>That's why I said slippery slope fallacy
And I explained twice why it isn't. Because I have experienced this multiple times. It's actually fairly common among those who try to get away with it once to try it again. Even adults acting like children in this case.

>>53093610
I've tried Necromunda with 40k terrain. It sucked balls. We didn't have any munda terrain around at the time of those two games we ran, so we tried using regular rulers as walkways. Still sucked balls. You need at least two levels imo.

>>53093718
See >>53093705

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I've yet to build my team or any terrain for a game, but some anon asked for signs last time and I don't think anybody gave them to him. Gonna be dumping some stuff.

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This game looks really fun

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Hope you guys find these useful

>>53093754
No. Because it escalates. Children do this. They test limits. It's natural. For some reason plenty of adults do this too and I've experienced this first hand on several occasions in gaming.

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>>53093795
more terrain

>>53093824
http://www.40kaddict.uk/2011/02/terrain-is-everything-standard-template.html
http://www.40kforums.com/vb/showthread.php/40142-FREE-printable-buildings-and-stuff

Can you expand your kill team beyond 10 models (20 if ur a git) when resupplying? Also wondering if the limit of no more than 50% of the kill team being new recruits applies during this resupply phase too.

>>53093859
You can't, 10 is the hard limit. 20 for boyz.
50% recruits applies at all times, as well- You can't buy a recruit if it pushes you over the limit.

>>53093886
Okay, thanks.

>>53093252
I was gonna go with 3 guys with bolters, 2 with plasma guns and champion with power sword and bolt pistol

>>53093886
Both those things are questions I hoped would get answered in the FAQ. Regarding the 50% rule, what happens if one of your troopers die putting you over the 50%? It's one thing that you can't recruit over the limit, but what if it's out of your control?

The expanded rulebook came out today so I finally got to play a game!

But, what happens when your fighter breaks but there is nowhere on the board where he can be out of sight?
Does he die of stage fright?

>Q. If a whole team is down or out of action, does it automatically fail its bottle test?
>Yes, so long as the mission allows the kill team to bottle out

It upsets me somewhat that GW felt the need to clarify that. It implies someone asked the question.

>Should Adepta Sororitas have access to a clip harness?
>No

Wait, why? Do they hate the sisters that much?

>Q. How exactly does the Orks' 'Ere We Go rule work? We can't figure out if you get an extra Attack dice or get to add 1 to the initial attack rolls (implying you could potentially roll a 7 and that you'd never roll a 1 on the turn you charge).
>‘Ere We Go provides an additional +1 Combat Score modifier in a turn in which the Ork has charged (this is in addition to the normal +1 Combat Score modifier for charging.

RIP best rendition of 'Ere We Go ever.

>>53094389
He goes away from the threat at full speed (run). Doesn't the rules say that tho?

>>53094389
You mean the digital version? Because I preordered the printed and that shipped today.

So I am planning on making a wych cult kill team for a campaign at my FLGS, however in the rules it doesn't let the min and max model numbers for a wych cult. I assume 3-10, but all it says is that wych cults follow the normal rules for kill team generation. Where can I find the min/max model numbers for them.
Also any advice in building the kill team as well?

>>53094448
I thought they had to run towards to a position where they can't be seen?
What if there just happens to be nowhere that can't be seen by the enemy?

>>53094482
No, they had the printed book.

>>53094517
3-10, says in the FAQ.

>>53093795
This is racist

>>53094077
You can't buy recruits until you get your numbers back up.
If the only people left in your list are recruits, you need to start a new team, as recruits can't be promoted to leader, and you need to have a leader to continue.

>>53094517
With Wych the most important thing to you is proper terrain placement.

Splinter pistol are the best weapon to get for everyone, it's the only gun for the Wych and it's good in melee. But it's expensive. Get a handful of these in your starting list.

Chainhook + venom are cheaper and really shine when you have +1str from drug. A good filler weapon when you need more body but don't have point for the pistol.

Shardnet and Impaler are the best specialist weapon. Razorflail are fucking garbage.

Blast pistol are also good, is amongs the best pistol in the game, but sadly it is not High-impact. Leader with Blast pistol + power sword + mirrorhelm is the Ultimate build you want to aim for.

ePub get posted anywhere yet?

So if a nid gets three parries by having three swords, though you claim he isn't using the third sword, by your logic I can give a harlequin two fusion pistols to use in combat and strap two swords to his back to get two parries as well.

>>53095527
But he only has two arms while tyranids have four.

>>53095527
Is there as part of the faq that says he does?

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>>53095527
You can only do something like that if they can reasonably use all those in combat I'm sure.

>>53094641
Around genestealers, watch yourself

>>53092804
they heavily depend on your meta, but they have a tool for nearly everything. Lasguns lack punch but they're cheap and reliable at pinning as long as the target doesn't need high impact. Snipers are great, as are plasma. grenade Launcher seem good too but I've not used them much. Meltas can be situationally useful but I prefer plasma.

The big thing that will hurt you is LD for bottle tests. You should be advancing your leader asap and trying to get some sort of morale skill or ld boost. Most of the games I've lost have been bottle tests. Commissar is very helpful for preventing that, I found him well worth the cache just to make sure I didn't bottle out.

Well swag it's that time of the week again...

Does anyone have the GW ebook yet?

Is a Shimmershield worth the price for a starting DA Exarch?

Should I have my 'Eavy nob lead my team or my Kommando nob?

E'avy nob, his gun makes him super deadly at short range I think, he has as many shots as the big shoota. 255pts
'Eavy armour
Combi-shoota
Red dot
Big choppa

Kommando nob, I wanna go all stealth skills with this guy so see what comes of it. 255pts
power klaw
slugga

>>53097527
for 30 points? Na.

>>53098016
Go heavy. The kommando nob is too likely to get charged and die unless the meta is Crawling with tau.

>>53093009
But rapid fire does not work with special weapons, it's basic only.
Best you can do is a rapid fire sniper rifle in those teams that get it as a basic weapon.

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Is this a good start for a team? I'm thinking I just sit them with eachother and move around in relative safety for the first couple games until I can recruit a solid meat wall of cultists in my second and third matches

Where's the Ebook faggots? Wtf is /tg/ even good for anymore.

>>53098834

I have a copy anon, but just for that comment I'm not sharing it.

>>53094925
Sure, but you can't field a team with more than 50 % new recruits, so.. Do you have to leave some out in your next fight?

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Literally no idea what I'm doing and haven't played my first game yet. From what I'm reading this seems sensible. Tell me what I'm doing wrong.?

>>53099714
Nice ad at the bottom of your list there.

I think our nascent league is over before it even really started. We had a fairly diverse group with necrons, tau, guard, skitarii, marines, and orks, except for the one tyranid guy. He got lucky and got scavenger on one of his guys, and stomped two or three people pretty hard. Now he has a full team of warriors all skilled up while most of our kill teams are out of action. Not very fun.

>>53099733
Thanks won't pay for it

>>53099841
At least it's not a penis enlargement ad.

>>53100005
Any list advice?

>>53099714
> red dots on lasguns
No

>>53100131
Why not? I literally do not have any experience and they seem to be useful for getting pins.

>>53100074
Lose the camo because you can buy it easily later on. I'd rather have the red dot on the vet sarge's bolter instead of the vets' lasguns.

Also you need more bodies on the table, guard have low LD and are squishy and you don't want to have to take bottle tests too soon.

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Anyone else homebrewing some terrain this weekend?

>>53100162
Because they cost 40 points. You could instead downgrade your vets to regular guardsmen with laspistols to start out with (and bring more than just two). I'm guessing your nade launcher spec op and your plasma gunner will be doing the supporting fire and you need front line guys to get hit before your specialists and leaders.

>>53100162
Guard troopers are extremely weak, disposable cannon fodder that are pretty much good only for that.

Spend points on specialists or extra bodies, don't waste them in faceless mooks who don't add much value.

>>53100324

The only time I'd say put a Red Dot on a Lasgun is when it's on a Trooper that's managed to score +1 BS, then you pop a Hotshot pack on as well and you're rocking with a poormans LongLas that's hitting on 2+ base.

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>>53094641
He a gud genestealla. He dindu nuffin

Any hints for a new player running a Tau kill team

>>53100377
Yes, that's a valid reason to do that.

>take 4 nid warriors for league at my LGS
>we're playing 2 matches per round
>play against skittari gunline
>first one is easy, guy was not expecting 12'' runs for loot in scavenger
>turn 2 win
>re-match
>we rolled that effect which makes you fall down after run/charge on roll of 1 with d6
>rush for loot
>one nid rolled one after run and got down
>other two grabbed loots and last one rushed for some CC
>he rolls terribly with his regular guns but plasmas did some nasty dmg
>grab another two loots
>both nids fell down on roll of 1
>4th nid got into CC and rekt one of dudes
>downed nids get rekt by plasmas
>fail bottle test
>on injury rolls i perma lost 2 of 4 models in roster

should i start form scratch or keep going just for keks?

>>53100467
Keep going for keks. Keks make memorable gaming experiences.

>>53100467
I'd say stick it out, wimp.

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Some guy joined our league today, and brought the vindicare that came out yesterday. He says he doesn't care about objectives, he's just trying to make others lose their guys. He nuked three of my guardsmen flat dead. Fuck these people.

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Any input on this list?

>>53100467
>>53100486
>>53100495
Stick to it, but only if you're gonna own it. Embrace the fact that sometimes things are gonna get cocked up and have fun with it.

>>53100502
>Be Vindicaire assassin
>Deployed to shitty promethium hive city
>Multiple factions battling it out to get some juice for their sweet rides and flamers
>Notice three guardsmen
>Get spotted by them
>Snipe them dead, 3 shots, 3 kills.
>Disregards mission to watch the world burn with Eldar waifu.

Such is life for Vindicares

>>53100559
>>53100495
>>53100486
will do! gonna try to catch up with next matches, hopefully it won't be scenario with -2 models for nids.

>>53098816
Undivided on the leader, leadership 9 is not enough when you are going for toys over boys.

>>53100608
They should change it to be the entire kill team has to have the same mark.

>>53100599
That's the nice thing about campaigns. The comebacks from gosh darn bad luck are the best.

>>53100502
Aren't those new profiles only available in specific missions?
And only if everyone else agrees to use those rules in the campaign?

>>53100726
Yes.

>>53100726
>>53100737

The fuck

you telling me this faggot torped my and three others' team and we could have avoided this

>>53100765
Aye

>>53100765
I suggest pretending to want to play a rematch against him then breaking his vindicare.

>>53100765
This is why I try and stay on top of new rules and releases. Too many asshats at my shop like to take anything for granted.

>>53100765
Yup, it mentions twice on the first page of the rules that you only play the missions if everyone in the campaign agrees, and all the character profiles state they can only ever be used in the special missions.

I played 2 games today.

I play tyranids so obviously I won both even though one was a 2v1.

>>53100979
How far into your campaign are you? They say Nid teams are the nastiest to start off with but get more chill over the coarse of a campaign unless you just snowball somehow

>>53101071

Nid teams are easy at first because multi wounds and high strength/toughness, and they snowball as soon as you get your fourth guy.

>>53101102
They still suffer a lot from losing 1 dude though. Nobody here is gonna argue nids aren't scary as fuck but they're certainly not an auto win by any means. Especially in a full campaign

>>53101217

just farm shitty factions like tau who can't get high impact weapons, and level up your guys. That's what I did today.

>>53101280
>just meta game as one of the best factions against one of the worst
Sometimes for brief blissful moments I forget there are faggots like you in the hobby

>>53101391
It's revenge for all the deaths nids have collectively suffered to riptides in 7th

Guys I was watching a video of gameplay and this guy was saying his scout squad was only armed with certain weapons because they were space wolves, as opposed to another chapter of scouts.

Do the 40k restrictions matter on Shadow War? The kill team rules don't seem to differentiate between chapters I thought?

>>53101790
Space Wolves are the exception since their Scouts aren't newbies.

>>53101790
You can play Shadow War without having read anything 40k.

>>53101882
Is this in the SWAG rules or just something people are adding in?

Picking myself up a copy in a few days and making my first foray into table top.

Does anyone think space marines will get a list? I mean the ones in power armour not scouts. Seems weird that they let CSM and GK in but not the poster boys.

>>53101916
It's in a sidebar in the Scouts list.

>>53102163
Maybe in an expansion a year from now.

>>53102220
Nice one thank you, I'll pick up the rule book tomorrow.

>>53100647
Well that defeats the point of playing Chaos undivided. Whats the point of using an Undivided warband (which it is meant to represent) if you can't make use of all the chaos powers. (even if papa nurgle is the best ruleswise)

>>53102375
Yeah quite frankly I'm pretty tired of mark of nurgle just being straight better than other marks in the 40k universe lately. Like people call you out for being a meta gamer or whatever but in what universe would I not take free +1 Toughness on everything that has the option

>>53102443

Yeah, the other marks really need some more omph to match up (As it's hard to tone nurgle down as it's +1 to a stat). Slannesh adding +1 movement along with +1 init and Undivided adding ATSKNF would likely help them for example.

>>53098816
I don't think you can put a red dot on a heavy bolter. Recommend not bothering with photo visors at first especially when red dot is an option for those guys. Against plasma pistol and power sword on the leader, go for one or the other and upgrade later.

Hey /swag/

I just picked up a box of Tyranid Warriors for my first venture into SWA.

I'm going for an Alien kind of feel here, and I'm really up for a challenge to get into close combat. I'd prefer not to take shooty things; how does this look?

Tyranid Alpha
Pair of Boneswords, Pair of Talons
Acid Blood, Adrenal Glands, Extended Carapace, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs

Tyranid Warrior
2x Pair of Scything Talons
Acid Blood
Adrenal, Carapace, Flesh, Toxin

Tyranid Warrior
Scything Talons, Rending Claws
Adrenal Glands, Carapace, Flesh hooks, Toxin Sacs.

Any tips for playing these guys? I hear it's difficult.

>>530997
Disagree with boltgun and carapace armour, your grenade launcher doesn't have krak. Camo gear isn't really needed, 4 inches less to an enemy's range doesn't mean too much most of the time and can be hard to remember.

>>53100131
>>53100162
In my experience, a red dot is a good idea on a lasgun, far better than a hotshot lasgun upgrade. Hitting and pinning is the aim of a lasgun and the red dot helps you with that. However it might be best to try and get more guys and upgrade to that later.

Problem is, if the guys you have are normal guardsmen without red dots, they'll have a hard tim hitting anything. They won't be able to do their job in a firefight, they can't pin the enemy to reduce their firepower... Guard will not win in straight up firefights.

>>53102754

No, it's the best army in the game.

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To run a squad of Solar Auxilia, should I just take Guardsmen with carapace armor?

>>53102923
Yeah, or you could count them as not having carapace until further into the campaign.

>>53102923

Can you imagine Shadow War Horus Heresy?

Castellax Kill Teams

>>53102959
If FW doesn't jump on the Shadow Wars bandwagon, I'm gonna be extremely disappointed. We already have about 15+ of the 50 Horus Heresy books with plots about guerrilla warfare.

>>53093775
>Prorlamation

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I played my first two games today and I got rekt by a vindicare, tyranids and necrons. It still hurts, lads.

>>53102959
>>53103001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5Iae8Qs2JU

I AM A MECHANICAL MAN

>>53102923
>>53102937
just so long as everybody in the team has the same armour, it shouldn't matter overmuch what armour it is.

>>53102163
the picked scouts because they're the spec ops unit for marines.Tactical marines are shock troops

GK and Chaos have no equivalent spec ops unit, so they send normal troopers.

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>>53094641
A genestealer cries out in pain as he strikes you

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>>53103238
Better pic

Hi guys, I can't find a good Storm Bolter for an Inquisition guy to have. Anyone got any recommendations? They all look HUEG and so wrong I think I'd rather ask my opponent to counts as some lasgun or bolter guys as storm bolter guys.

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>>53100214
Pasito can
6 party poppers
Rope and a pipe clamp

If I want mash up both Armageddon and Necromunda, besides Armageddon just letting in new teams and their respective equipment, is there any rules that conflict with eachother that I should keep an eye out for? Also would it be a good or bad idea if I stick with Necromunda but allow all the gear from all factions in Armageddon? Rare Equipments rolls of course

>>53100241
>laspistols
>on guard

Literally never do this, there is no upside to a lasgun aside from a laughable "savings" in points. There's no bonus to hit like bolt pistols get and you'll want that range. Camo is also very handy, as it affects everything shooting at you. Even melta guns and pistols suffer a penalty, which can turn a 12" range weapon into an 8" range weapon. Yes, it can be a little weird to remember, but I just take it on everyone all in one go to keep it simple, especially because it's so cheap.

As for skimping out on the first game, that can really come back to bite you in the ass. I see people post lists where they take guys with no equipment or guns or even just a pistol and I seriously wonder how you guys win your first game. Normally you get maybe 1 more guy than someone who shelled out for proper weapons and you're going to take more casualties in the first game because you skimped on gear. No, you shouldn't lather on upgrades, but at the very least you should put down points for key weapons or characters. Say a reload on a plasma gunner or a red dot sight and toxin rounds for a sniper. You really do get what you pay for in this game. Granted most things you'll want to wait for rearm phases to get, but at the very least your specialists and leader should have some key upgrades right off the bat to help you get that winning momentum going.

I'm also surprised everyone on here says that range over 24" is useless. Are you guys not using walkways and fighting it out from elevation? Even with insanely dense terrain we regularly have sniper duels from across the board and long range sights can definitely come in handy. The only way I could possibly think of never dealing with anything past say 24" is you only play on the ground level or just use no walkways on your tables whatsoever.

>>53102907

Right up until you lose a model...

jesus christ, my grey knight gunners can't stop running out of ammo on the first goddamn shot they do

so today i saw on a double oilslick scavengers game, Skitari alpha with phosphor pistol and tazer goad defeat four or five ork boys in close combat through the cascading effects of broken fighters. he was already in combat with one ork boy he fleshwounded last turn, then the rest charged in. and one of them tripped and downed himself. since you get downed at the end of the movement, he went down in 2 inches of the dudes he was helping fight, so they start taking break tests, and then it goes
>ork fails break test and runs,
>alpha gets free hit
>downs ork,
>next ork fails and runs
>gets downed
until only the alpha is left standing over a pile of bloody and beaten orks that he would take all out of action when combat phase came up. the ork player then realized he forgot to bottle test and bottled the fuck out.

>>53100765

Apart from what everyone else has said the Vindicare is a special operative so he'd need to spend a cache to hire him every game. So he'd have to play at least the first game with a normal killteam even if you all agreed to allow Lone Operative games (which is a specific game type with restrictions to two special missions).

>>53103791
I have lost more guys to that fucking oil slick result than enemy combatants. I am so sick of that goddamn table.

It's getting to the point that the first thing I do no matter what is roll on geurilla and keep trying until I get hunter.

If it just made you pinned it wouldn't be so bad but down? Jesus christ is it brutal, especially when many of the objective missions rely on grabbing something and getting out quickly. It makes the raid and the scavenger missions far more difficult than they need to be.

>>53103276
The devastators kit comes with a non-termie sized storm bolter.

>>53103907
>but down? Jesus christ is it brutal


wonder if it'll get faqd considering it doesn't even account for wounds

>>53104021
we gotta ask them to faq or errata it

>>53102706
why couldn't you put a red dot on a heavy bolter? it seems perfectly logical to me?
Also not that anon but i play night lord so to be fluffy I put photovisor and camo gear on every power armour dude in my team and it's been super usefull more than once, especially with longer range weapon

>>53099837
Buy grenades

>>53104342
Yeah it seems logical to me and I would be all for it. It just says under red dot that it can only be on pistols, basic weapons and special weapons tho. Maybe it's for balancing.

>>53104383
Oh shit didn't realised that anon
thank, i was gonna upgrade my gunner to have a heavy bolter with red dot but now i'm just gonna keep him plasmagun, red dot, and then maybe just a telescopic lense just to outrange other plasmaguns!

>>53101217
If your opponents aren't morons they'll buy krak grenades and one shot your nids.

In fact, the later you go the more enemies can erase your model in one shot

>>53102754
Abuse cover and hiding. Heavy weapons will ruin your guys so don't give them clean shots. Prepare to get a lot of scrubs used to wining in the list building phase struggle because your list requires them to change their tactics.

Psicannons are insane. How can they be so strong?

May as well make them old 2nd Ed assault cannons, which fired up to 9 krak missiles a turn.

>>53103607
Psilencers don't run out of ammo

>>53101071
I've played 8 games and have 14 caches. Starting out they do pretty good, but are in a precarious position because they start to bottle out when you lose one guy until you max out the team.

They suffer immensely from losses or injuries that require people to sit out a game too.

Basically you're perpetually skating on thin ice during the campaign, but you're also super fucking powerful at the same time.

>>53101391
People chose the factions they play. I repeatedly informed people before games that if they played me it probably won't end well. However people are generally good sports and are looking to have fun.

>>53102754
Assuming you're hell-bent on melee.

Don't mix scything talons and rending claws, in fact don't use rending claws at all. 2 pairs of talons makes you +1 WS which hugely and lets you re-roll failed to-wound rolls, that's way better than having an extra point of save modifier.

Also you should get another box of dudes and assemble one as a tyranid prime. That way you have 5 models you can bring and a special operative for emergencies.

If you're not hell bent on all melee use guns, specifically venom cannons on gun-beasts and Deathspitters on your alpha, they are weapons of mass destruction.

>>53104574

I'm playing Harlequins in my league and have providing a similar disclaimer. All in all most everyone is having a blast.

>>53098834
Complaining about how much they hate new things?

>>53104520
yeah i'm doing four man start, so no room for special weapons

>>53104682
Stranger cannons are bad for injuring things but great for mass pinning. >>53104549
This. People like to cry about nids but you're walking on the razor edge the entire way. A stray heavy shot could easily cost you a 500 point model. If you're staring down plasma barrels and the omni present krak grenade one bad movement and you're bottling and taking serious injuries

Making my first 40k purchase later today, going to pick up some scouts.

Which chapter should I go for? I'm thinking Space Wolves but I understand they have more restrictions in SWAG.

>>53104987
They're pretty much better than the others. They get more weapon choices in exchange for not being able to hire trainees, which isn't that big a loss.

>>53105057
Nice one thank you, Space Wolves are my personal favorite anyway. Really looking forward to getting into ttg.

>>53104966
My experience so far is that people often figure out very quickly that bunching up is extremely dangerous. Not just because of blasts, but also sustained fire.

The first time you lose 3 dudes to a single round of shooting from a sustained fire 2 weapon you never do that shit again.

>>53105503
also morale fucks people. oh no my buddy within 2 inches (went down/out of action) BREAK TEST AAAAAAA. or standing next to a guy who bleeds out next to you. BREAK TEST AAAAA.

What should I spend my spare 75pts on for my SoB team? I'm versing mostly Inquisition and Guardsmen lists.

Leader - Sister Superior 175pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Combi-Melta / 65pts
Total / 240pts

Specialist - Gunner Sister 100pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Heavy Bolter / 180pts
Total / 280pts

Specialist - Gunner Sister 100pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Storm Bolter / 55pts
Total / 155ptspts

Trooper - Battle Sister 90pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Boltgun / 35pts
Total / 125pts

Trooper - Battle Sister 90pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Boltgun / 35pts
Total / 125pts

Total Team Cost = 925pts

>>53106130

I'd honestly lean more towards a Storm Bolter on the superior over a combi-melta but they are both good.

Storm Bolter on Superior + Bolt Pistols on Battle Sisters would get you a Noviate with a Bolt Pistol.

You lose a little range on the base troops but you still have 2 storm bolters and a Heavy Bolter.

That and Bolt Pistols are honestly better than Boltguns in a close-up fight/give you a melee weapon if you luck into winning a fight. You'll want both in the end.

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>>53106236
Thanks for the advice, been getting my ass handed to me by the Inquisition too much while playing GSC so hopefully I can make it work

>>53106380
>the inquisition btfo the GSC so hard they literally left
Narrative=FORGED

>>53106421
I wish it was, cause it'd make more sense than the shenanigans that happened when we first fought.
>Start up friendly league
>First match versing Inquisition
>Playing the Hit-and-Run mission
>Heavy Stubber dude deploys into the perfect spot, end up gunning down three of his five dudes throughout the game
>His Inquisitor (the guy im supposed to eliminate) proceeds to just wipe the floor with three of my nine guys, forcing me to bottle
>Gets 3 promethium
>When he rolls for injuries, the three guys I took out of action roll 6's, all of them gain skills
>My three guys get captured or gain frenzy
Genestealer's are just making a strategic retreat for the next decade, don't mind them.

>>53106380
Heavy flamers are also fairly strong, if super limited by range. Auto hitting and the ability to move and shoot them is very powerful, as is overwatch as a defense against charging mean things.

Overall heavy bolters are probably better in the long run, but don't discount heavy flamers completely.

>>53106645
True. Now I'm wondering if that Noviate would be worth replacing for a Heavy Flamer and some krak grenades. Are Krak grenades worth it?

how are grenade launchers?

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>>53102923
I'm thinking of picking up some of these to run as a "sisters of battle" force, since T3 in power armor makes me hard, but SoB sculpts suck so fucking bad. Anybody have thoughts on this? thinking of fluffing it as part of a private army for some mega-corp

>>53106773
Versatile and effective.

>>53106840
>SoB rules for t3 humans in 'heavy' armor
Why haven't I thought of this?

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>>53106859
Because you have a whole community of people here to help you think of stuff

So, uhhhh, tyranids. I would love to have some form of Genestealer-focused force where i can actually use genestealers as my regular troops, but apparently thats not how it works, i have to use mutants and can only call in genestealers every now and again as special forces if i gather enough resources in missions, which seems kinda silly to me, especially since i have about thirty of the gribbly buggers but no guardsmen for mooks.

I have six warriors from way back when, among my first non-fantasy models, which are awfully painted but that is fixable with a strip. I've been trying to listbuild for them, is it better to have four melee-focused nids or three shootier ones? I've only seen one game played with the SWA rules, so i don't know whats an effective list, but generally i prefer to have more boys less toys in full scale warhammer.

How is the game balance
What is overpowered to fight and what sucks to use?

>>53107082
>what is overpowered to fight?
My Dudes
>what sucks to use?
Your Dudes

>>53100214
Nice start. Post more wips when it's starting to come together.

>>53106773
Can you plasma?
If you can, it answers problems that the launcher can't - not bad, but second place is the first of the losers.
If you can't into plasma, don't have red dots, don't have kraks, and admit it you're playing gsc, they are suddenly much better.

>>53100765
Definitely. The rules for those scenarios specifically state that you only play them if everyone agrees to it.

At this point I'd say retcon the whole thing as "never happened". Get your mans back and keep playing the campaign from where you were before this asshole showed up. Then the next time you see him, tell him he's not allowed in the campaign. Pulling shit like that should be a warning signal for all of you on what kind of player he is: Dishonest.

>>53100765
Was this at a gw store? If so, tell the staff of what happened and make it clear that such dishonest bullshit does not fly with you and the other players. They'll most likely ban the fucker from the store, or at least the campaign, if they care about their customers.

>>53101916
It's in the rules, yes.

>>53102754
I'm considering getting nids to go up against my guard to make some nice "Aliens" scenarios. Will be painting the warriors in dark blackgreen tones and gloss coat them. :) It will be hell for the soldiers, just like in the movie.

>>53103106
You know you don't have to allow a Vindicare into your campaign right? The one-man-army characters and missions clearly state that you can only use them if all players in the campaign agree to it.

>>53103282
Nice work. Post more wips as you paint it please. Looks off to a great start.

Personally I'd consider a walkway that starts with a small ladder or stairs at the end off the party poppers, traverse along them and ends at the side of the can in a small platform with some valves and data panels to be read by maintenance staff. If you can be bothered of course. I still think it looks great as is.

>>53104342
>>53104383
Red dot on an automatic weapon? That doesn't make sense. For machineguns you use tracer ammo to steer your aim. The recoil of the weapon would make it impossible to spot a red dot flickering all over the place when the trigger is pressed down. :)

>>53107066
Since this went ignored, anyone want to c&c this first-time list? By the sounds of things, nids could actually be OP for once, so i could easily tone it down if need be

Tyranid Alpha
2x Scything Talons
Extended Carapace, Adrenal Glands, Acid Blood

270 points

Tyranid Warrior
2x Scything Talons
Extended Carapace, Adrenal Glands

235 points

Tyranid Warrior
2x Scything Talons
Extended Carapace, Adrenal Glands

235 points

Tyranid Gunbeast
2x Scything Talons
Extended Carapace, Adrenal Glands
260 points

Planning on giving my Gunbeast a venom cannon and the alpha a lashbone/double bonesword combo if they survive long enough, but one should always be prepared for everything going tits-up if the dice decide to lauch

>>53107882
Plan seems a bit risky anon, but if you're confident you can keep the gunbeast and the leader alive for two games, I reckon it'll pay off.

>marines get lightning claws
>chaos marines don't

???
Please explain.

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>>53104342
If you're going to stick a red-dot on it, why not add a holo sight as well and shoot it from the shoulder in semi-auto.

>>53108443
Marines only get them on the terminator and veteran spec ops, and chaos also get them on their terminator. Seems perfectly logical to me.

>>53107962
That's the thing, i don't know if i can keep anything alive, i've only watched the owner and some dude play a game of GSC using cadian models, thats not genestealers, i want four arms and freaky tentacle-faces vs scouts. Alpha seems perfectly capable as he is even without upgrades, ws6 w/rerolls to wound seems insanely mean, especially with 3w when most competition has one, or two at worst. Basically, i'm expecting to have to dodge meltaguns and such like the plague, eat bullets with my designated bulletcatchers, and annihilate anything my dudes catch in CC. I could swap the gunbeast to having spinefists at start in return for the leaders acid blood, but even that gunbeast is ws5 with rerolls with 2x talons.

>>53106737

Krak Grenades are fantastic. The range isn't great on your Str 3 arms but they give every single model a decent weapon for harder targets.

Losing a point of BS isn't that terrible a loss when you remember: Grenades reduce cover penalties by 1. So if your target has cover, it''s not losing any accuracy at all.

-3 AP and d6 wounds is killer and is really the weapon of choice if you want to reduce a nid warrior to a small stain on the ground. Crack Shot, Hip Shooting and Marksman all apply to grenades too. A SOB with Marksman or a BS upgrade can pretty reliably smack a guy in the gob with a grenade.

Looking for feedback on my revised Inquisition list:

Inquisitor (330 pts total)
Power Armour
Boltgun
Power Sword
Plasma Syphon

Crusader (185 pts total)
Power Sword
Storm Shield

Crusader (185 pts total)
Power Sword
Storm Shield

Acolyte (115 pts total)
Chainsword
Bolt Pistol

Initiate (90 pts total)
Lasgun
Hot-Shot Power Pack

Initiate (90 pts total)
Lasgun
Hot-Shot Power Pack

>>53108660
Hmm, maybe replace the chitin carapace with fleshhooks and just do ambushes on anyone. You can blind charge anyone within double your initiative range, and how Flesh Hooks got explained to me as that any obstacle thats over 2" tall just gets treated as difficult terrain, so you can start doing crazy charges over buildings and stuff.

Other advice if your willing to get rid of one of your Warriors is to get the Venom cannon, kit them out with stuff and just go full Metal Gear.

>>53108680
Oh shit that's so good, I didn't know that the skills applied to grenades as well.

In that case, I revised my list a little.
Leader - Sister Superior 175pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Storm Bolter / 55pts
Total / 230pts

Specialist - Gunner Sister 100pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Heavy Bolter / 180pts
Total / 280pts

Specialist - Gunner Sister 100pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Storm Bolter / 55pts
Total / 155pts

Trooper - Battle Sister 90pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Boltgun / 35pts
⁃Krak Grenades / 40pts
Total / 165pts

Trooper - Battle Sister 90pts (Morina)
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Boltgun / 35pts
⁃Krak Grenades / 40pts
Total / 165pts

Total Team Cost = 995pts
Might trade in the boltguns for bolt pistols abd grab a back-up chainsword for my leader, but at least now everyone on the team has something sorta special, and at least most of my guys have ways of dealing with stuff, whether it be sustained fire or anti-inquisitor/anti-nid grenades.

>>53108881

>Oh shit that's so good, I didn't know that the skills applied to grenades as well.

Yeah, as long as they work on 'Shooting attacks'. Basic/Pistol weapons skills don't but those 3 do.

>Might trade in the boltguns for bolt pistols abd grab a back-up chainsword for my leader

I'd recommend a bolt pistol over a chainsword for the leader if you can manage it. Both are Str in melee with the Chainsword being -2 and the Bolt Pistol -1.

It's a rather small reduction in melee stabbing in exchange for +2 up close shooting accuracy/a backup for when the stormbolter runs out. It's also not technically noisy if used in melee during an ambush.

The chainsword IS better (Extra -1/Parry) but if it's just for backup options I'd either save up for a Power Weapon or go with the dual purpose pistol option.

>>53103285
things I can think of off the top of my head:

lasguns have a save mod in Necromunda, but not in SW.
the two games handle advances, injuries and acquiring more resources differently
ammo rolles are on 1d6 in necromunda, and 2d6 in SW

>>53108973
So something like this then?
Leader - Sister Superior 175pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Bolt Pistol / 25pts
⁃Storm Bolter / 55pts
Total / 255pts

Specialist - Gunner Sister 100pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Heavy Bolter / 180pts
Total / 280pts

Specialist - Gunner Sister 100pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Storm Bolter / 55pts
Total / 155pts

Trooper - Battle Sister 90pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Bolt Pistol / 25pts
⁃Krak Grenades / 40pts
Total / 155pts

Trooper - Battle Sister 90pts
⁃Power Armour / *
⁃Combat Blade / *
⁃Bolt Pistol / 25pts
⁃Krak Grenades / 40pts
Total / 155pts

Total Team Cost = 1000pts

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>>53109398
You should really be posting your lists in image format
Just use the snip tool, it's super simple

I wonder how the game would go with expanding the skills a bit more. Right now, some of the skill lists (Ferocity is a big one) are a bit all over the place and some of the options are way better than others.

So I just picked up my copy of the printed rulebook at the lgws. *sniff* Aaahhh. The smell of newly printed book. :)

>>53104574
So you're telling people that you're going to be a piece of shit and force people to have fun playing against your meta game bs? I bet they can't even say no because your group is probably super thin due to most people thinking you're a dirty bastard. Our campaign no one abuses meta shit and we have new players squeezing some wins every now and then. We've got so many players that we had to start a side campaign that's narrative focused.

>>53108509
>logical
>to miss a key weapon
At least Marines can get them on a power armoured unit rather than solely on a plodding Termie.

Also where are all the power weapon variants?

>>53109553
So you're telling me you can't beat harlies? Lul

>>53109422
I probably should but I'm on mobile and just copy and paste everything from notes.

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Wait.. What?

>>53107754
What about for a multi melta, lascannon or missile launcher?

>>53108680
Remember krak grens have -1 to hit as standard.

>>53108707
Why hotshot lasgun when you have bolters (and for acolytes, storm bolters) as options?

>>53110539

>Remember krak grens have -1 to hit as standard.

Yeah, I commented on that. However they also ignore 1 point of penalty from cover (As grenades) so they are actually just as accurate if the guy is in cover.

>>53110485
Projectile launchers of different kinds use optical sights that are adjustable for distance, wind and movement since their projectiles travel much slower than that of a regular rifle for example. Melta weapon descriptions are tricky, but as I read it they're a form of directed microwave oven. Microwaves work such that they excite the atoms in matter causing them to vibrate and generate heat. As such I'd consider a melta weapon to have a somewhat less focused beam than say a las. If you read up on how microwaves affect matter you'll see what I mean. Lascannon I'm not sure about because I haven't read the description lately.

This is just my personal take on things, and how I assume it would work in the 40k setting. But it could obviously work differently, and there being other, less complicated, explanations for why red dots aren't available for those weapons.

>>53107342
Never seen a statement so true

>>53107882
I'd go for flesh hooks before carapace

>>53109553
>>Our group doesn't understand tactical play so we bully anyone who likes an army that isn't easy to beat

>>53111168
i've redone it all with both chitin and hooks, still with four giant horrifying bug-xenomorphs, nogunz on my gunbeast still. Going to go in and try it out probably thursday against the store dude's scouts, try to get a feel for the game before signing up for any campaigns or anything. Feels good to drag my oldest models out for a run, and shows me how much my painting ability has improved.

For Inquisition what's better. Mass Storm Bolters or mass plasma pistols?

>>53111674
Not mass anything. You'll want a mix in this game. Versatility.

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I don't know much about Tyranids. Can someone tell me what are those (pic)?

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So now that we know 100% that SWA and Necromunda are clone systems we can begin to use material from both systems interchangeably and learn from the large body of community built expansions like Inquisimunda and Ash Wastes.

This pretty opens up the whole 40K galaxy to skirmish gaming and allows for competitive campaigning with players everywhere for a marginal entry cost.

Further, by putting irregular humans in this combat system and linking it to the elite forces of the 40K galaxy it has provided a plausible baseline for the entire rules body. This combat system now becomes an actual tactical representation of the technology and methods of the 40K setting. It goes a long way to suspending disbelief and credibly acknowledges that gaming outcomes are built on player decisions and not broken rules sets or troop types.

In other words, if you lose it's your own damn fault. Your victories will be built on the decisions you make on the gaming table not in the broken lists you build or the elite troop types you buy.

I know this is going to be difficult for a lot of 40k players to deal with.

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>>53112208
Its the tail/pelvis region of a warrior.

>>53112283
Hackerman <3

>>53112331
Oh. Haha of course. I thought it was some strange weapon. I was googling and couldn't find it. Explains why.

I'm considering using nids and my guard to set up a "Aliens"-scenario or a series of scenarios in swag. If I get around to it I'll be painting the warriors in a dark green scheme and gloss coat them. :)

>>53112283
nice pasta

>>53112283
>this again.


They are not the same game. Give up.

>>53112073
I mean they're for the normal, non-specialist guys. I'd prefer a sorta standard format for my normal guys. Using plasma rifles as counts-as plasma pistols would be the easiest thing, but storm bolters look like they're just better.

>>53102470
I'd tone down the MoN by making it immunity to pinning bar high impact. Fluff wise its a Nurgle Marine just chuckling when he doesn't get hurt by a weapon shooting him

>>53112485
This game is more about tactical play though, and less about number crunching. The random factor might still fuck you over no matter how much you have optimized your list. I think you should go with what looks more cool to you.

how are shoguns?

Additionally, how are shotguns in gsc?

How good are the harlies?

>>53112717
Very very good, in one of games. in campaign, can get caught out if they loose a guy, but can win a mission with one guy left alive.

>>53112758

They seem to be good at everything?

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Lads, local store has a painting comp for Kill Teams next month.

Wondering if I should enter my GSC or Orks (both have had more done to them and the Orks have got additional members)

Then again, I've also been tempted to start another gang, Inquisition - Female Inquisitor (using the metal models), Genestealer Acolyte bodies with the Skitarii vanguard Helmets (Duncan stole *my* idea!)

I'm looking for what will pop most and draw the eye

>>53112875
They can be basically useless in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are doing. You can't just assume you will win with them, cause you will get pulped by anyone who thinks. Also, CC is not always the best option. Charging can leave you in the line of fire. While a Harlie can beat One V One most other models, they hit the deck hard if they fail a save. They also can't do anything for range. In some scenarios, you can find yourself unable to responds for 3 turns often.

>>53112920
Inquisition is always most eye catching due to the bling

I'm playing for the first time in a few days, and I've finely crafted my list. I need some C&C and input to check if this is garbage or great.


Orkz list:

Nob
9x Boyz
10x Yoofs

All shanks. I'll get more gubbinz as I go along. I feel like most teams would not be well enough equipped to deal with 20 guys rushing them in the first game.

>>53112758
They're one of the strongest teams, but not unbeatable.

>>53112689
A lot of people trashtalk shotties, but they have their use.

>>53112920
Of the two in the pic I think your gsc are better painted than the orks. And the red makes them pop a bit more.

>>53113175
This has been done by several other players, and successfully so even. Good luck. It seems like a lot of fun desu.

>>53112920
>I'm looking for what will pop most and draw the eye
Orks. Big chunky details, big chunky conversions, exaggerated facial features.

generic acolyte+vanguard troopers will not draw the eye, because as you already know, everyone and their dog has done them already

>>53106840
Rich Rogue Trader's personal army.

>>53104682

Thanks for the suggestion; if I save on Rending Claws and slap on another talon I might be able to rearrange so I can get Acid Blood on the third guy as well.

Annoying how the Tyranid Warrior set only comes with so many talons, but I'll look into assembling a Tyranid Prime as well.

Any ideas to kit that guy out?

How to beat harlequins?

>>53113969
shoot them. Stay 3" from each other, and overwatch.

>>53114067
I can't hit them though because of cover and run

>>53114422
Not if they have to charge you.

>>53114449
But if they ran last turn, doesn't their ability mean they have the -2 still apply when they charge?

>>53114510
No. Read the FAQ, under harliquin charging

>>53114449
This. They can't stay hidden forever and overwatch will give you a reasonable shot at putting someone down. If you position correctly, after their charge they won't have anyone to engage and they'll be sitting in the wind.

Use frag grenades. The large blast has a good chance to hit even if you drift, and its a 25% chance at a take out. You'll outnumber them so use that to your advantage.

Picked up my first ever 40k purchase today, some scouts.

I got scouts, a tin of wolf grey spray paint and some glue.

Did I do ok Anons? Going to go for a squad of space wolves, just gotta read into the points system and create my squad now before assembling the models.

I wanted to get into table top gaming for years, I'm excited Bros.

>>53114627
Skim ebay or pick up a box of the default wolf marines- It come with the parts to add to the scout box to make them wolf scouts.

Heads and weapons and so on.

>>53114576
>they'll be sitting in the wind.
The harly would reform or something move into a new combat or move into cover after killing a dude if no one was nearby

>>53114661
Nice one thank you Anon.

Do I need the extra parts for them to be classed as space wolves or is a paint job enough? I was going to use these as practice for painting, before buying another squad at the end of the month and doing them up with wolf bits.

>>53114684
Hence having someone within 3. So its basically impossible to hide. Right now, it seems like you are just pushing the Harlies are unbeatable, they should be banned line. A small amount of tactics beats them.

>>53114684
Then you didn't position properly. You control where your dudes stand. If the Harlequin can consolidate into combat or cover it's your own damn fault

>>53114696
Paint job is all you need. Give me a minute to rummage through my box and I'll post the scout bits that come in the box- It's mostly heads and weaponry.

>>53114726
You're a total bro. Thank you Anon

>>53114510
>>53114523
Also in the rules. The previous run doesn't count for bonuses if you charge.

Also flamer on ow.

>>53114627
You did good. Considering branching into wolf scouts as well (playing guard atm).

>>53114726
I'd like to see those bitz too. Peace.

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>>53114810
>>53114899
5 Heads Per sprue (10 in a box)
1 Plasma pistol arm per sprue (2 in a box)
I threw in some of the bolters knives and generic bits- Even after making 10 marines from a box, you'll have a solid amount of special weapons(power claws, power swords, power axes, power fists, plasma guns, plasma pistols, storm bolter) and extra things (Belts, wolf tails, standards, knives) left over to do whatever you want with

>>53115120
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Wolves-Pack-2016
This is the box if you want a look at the sprues.
You get two of each sprue shown- The other heads have the regular bottoms on them, meant for the marine torso, but it wouldnt be too much on an issue to trim then to fit scouts.

What are some tactics for skitarii? Sitting back and shooting in a big blob is getting old. Do they have any reliable CC options?

>>53114813

Page number or section for me to look up? Cause then I need to show it otherwise I'm going to keep getting charged with a minus 2 to hit

Thanks

>>53115417
From what I understand, even taking CC weapons on the alpha is a huge trap/waste of points. You're a shooty army. If you want melee, play a different army

>>53115120
Thank you

>>53115120
Thanks.

>>53115528
If you fire from ow you get - 1. If you fire at a target that is charging your shooter it's - 1 (hit modifiers sidebar on pg 31). You can't run and charge at the same time (see FAQ).

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>>53116725
Pic related is the issue.
Quins run in turn A
My turn, shooting at them has minus 2, choose to stationary
Quins turn B, they charge.

Quins claim that since they ran in turn A, the effect holds through turn B. So they charge and get to apply a minus 2 to anything that shoots at their chargers with overwatch or supporting fire.

>>53116902
Read the new FAQ.
"Q. When charging, are you considered to be running and gain the additional -1 to enemy overwatch?
No."
Overwatch states that the model counts as running if it is running *that* turn, not the previous turn.

>>53116902
>"previous movement phase"
You'll still get a total of - 2 because charge and fire from ow. With your "friends" logic you'd get a - 4 because running w prismatic blur, charging and firing from ow.

>>53116994
This.

>>53116994

2nd page of rules of Overwatch, the paragraph just above "fleeting targets":

"When determining whether or not a target of overwatch fire is running, the fighter's move that turn is used rather than that of the previous turn."

So no, they don't count as still running. You get -1 for firing on overwatch, and the model they charge gets an extra -1 for being charged, but they don't get any bonus for Prismatic Blur.

>>53116994
So the quinns muddled something on me then?

>>53117001
Charging doesn't have a minus

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>>53116902
Page 37. See picture.

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>>53117063
>Charging doesn't have a minus
Yes it does. Hit modifiers sidebar on pg 31.

>>53117106
Oh ya, the charge target gets a modifier. I meant the charger doesnt apply a minus 1 to everyone that could shoot at them because they're charging
Apologies

>>53116902
Your "friend" is the kind of moron who would argue that hit modifiers don't modify anything if it would benefit him.

Find new friends

>>53117076
>>53117345

Okay thanks
I thought it seemed ridiculous and resulted in a stomping

>>53110539
Honestly? Because the models I'm using for them have lasguns.
Also, that list totals at 995 points, and I'm pretty sure storm bolters are more expensive than lasguns.

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What factions would /tg/ say are too OP for LGS campaigns? I'm given to understand Harlequins are a bad idea but are there any others? Part of me feels like I should scratch Grey Knights off too...

>>53118677
Nids.

>>53118677
>What factions would /tg/ say are too OP for LGS campaigns?
None.

If you can't deal with any of the factions you're an incompetent retard.

>>53118825
.t someone who spent all their points on telescopic and red dot sights for their lasguns

>>53118978
>Immediately jumping to juvenile insults over a simple question.
Does your Mum know you're up this late?

>>53119013
The thing is lasguns are underpowered. They can't really hurt nids. They need an ability where every second lasgun hit after the first has more STR and/or deals more damage. Otherwise Guard doesn't have a chance against nids.

>>53119017
I'm sorry, who did I insult?

>>53119049
That's bait, right?

>>53119049

that's what you have 3 special weapons mans for

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>>53119061
I'll tell you...or you can trade it all for what's in this box.

>>53119105
but the Nids always eat them first. so I have to fight the Nids with lasguns.

>>53119105
Every single guard model can buy krak grenades. Which wound T4 on 2s, ignore 4+ saves completely and deal 3 wounds on a 3+ damage roll.

They don't even need special weapons.

>>53119132
>What is positioning, what is overwatch, what is shooting into combat, what is using any kind of tactics whatsoever

>>53119172
well they are fast. a little too fast. they are the monstrous creatures of shadow war. I think the more wounds they take the slower they should get and also deal less damage. like in AOS

>>53119255
>team consists of three dudes that will all die to a single grenade, if you think of using a weapon actually effective against them
>that are more likely to take a wound than a marine
>but they move two inches further than my guys, so they're OP and need nerf pls

>>53119298
but i cna't throw that far. i can only throw one before they charge me. and s3 is to weak against them.

also stop using green text and post like a Man.

>>53119357
>s3
>wounding on fives, just like it does on literally everything that isnt a human/squishy eldar

>only one
>not having your whole fireteam of dudes covering each other like a bunch of dirty blue xenos, with plasma, melta, krak and designated bullet-catchers all in their proper places

>greentext
>not the manliest form of communication on this sri lankan curry enthusiasts plaza

>>53107082
>How is the game balance

It's a GW game, it's essentially a completly random "See-what-happens" game like Talisman.

>>53118615
Bolters are cheaper and better.

>>53119144
If they get to throw them, if they hit with them, if they have even paid the points for them in the first place.

>>53119298
If they can throw that grenade, if they can hit, if it does enough damage.

>>53119443
Imagine 4 lasguns are on overwatch and are looking in the directon of the enemy tyranid, the tyranid pops out. They all fire overwatch shots. Say they hit on 5s because the Tyranid is a melee guy and they're running, and let's say these guardsmen are either veterans or have red dots.

Let's overestimate and say 2 of those shots hit. Wound on 5s. Let's overestimate again and say one of those wound. You get yer armour save. You have 2 more wounds.

Lasguns are worthless and we all know it. All they can do is pin the pinnable guys. I would take a team full of plasma guns or even bolters over them if the game would let me.

>>53119255
>this game is too difficult because I have to think about how to deal with problems make it more like AOS!

>>53119679
Are you feeling ok?

>>53119646
I know right.

>>53119646
>If they get to throw them, if they hit with them, if they have even paid the points for them in the first place.
So if you don't buy weapons that are actually effective, and don't come up with any kind of counter for the things you can reasonable expect to see in the game, you should for some reason still expect to win using the weakest weapons available?

Guard killteams have BS4 base, their guys are cheap, they get an extra specialist and they have access to a ton of effective weapons and wargear.

If you're having trouble playing guard against tyranids then god help you. You've been provided with every tool you could possibly need.

>>53119646
>Lasguns are worthless and we all know it. All they can do is pin the pinnable guys. I would take a team full of plasma guns or even bolters over them if the game would let me.
This is a problem with SWA, in necromunda anyone could use a bolter and shotguns had useful special ammunition. In SWA if your faction doesn't happen to have good special weapons then your troopers are basically useless cannon fodder who can do nothing useful except throw grenades.

>>53119646
Lets pretend you know how to play. You have your guardsmen two and a half inches away from each other. That nid eats one. The other three throw grenades. One and a half hit, no save, each has a 66% of killing him outright. Then, your heavy weapon guy kills another nid because he actually is using a weapon and not a flashlight. Your opponent is down 2/3 of his army and bottles, risking two of his 300 point models being lost or out of action, likely leaving him with only two models for his next game.

>>53120075
I mean good basic weapons, obviously.

>>53120002
A guard shoots at a marine. Hits on a 4 (he probably ran or at least has some cover, you never shoot straight in this game), wounds on a five, and then saves on a 4. Sounds like one out of every twelve shots will down a marine scout.

You can't reliably kill anything with a lasgun. Stop trying.

>>53120126
Try reading the post you just quoted again.

>>53120189
I was elaborating, not disagreeing

>>53120002
Krak grenades are 40 points and their main use is against Tyranids. Unless you're tailoring your team to fight specific teams, then you'll likely just have whatever is standard for a guardsman like a lasgun. If you have a guardsman with a lasgun and krak grenades, he's 115-125 points. If you have just krak grenades he's still 90-100 points.

If a veteran on overwatch throws a krak grenade at a charging or running tyranid warrior, he has -1 to hit standard, -1 from overwatch, -1 from running tyranid. He hits on a 6. A 7 if he's a normal guardsman. Even if it's not overwatch it's still a 5 and he has to be within 9 inches to do that.

The only effective weapons against tyranids that guard have are krak grenade launchers and plasma guns, but the initial argument was that lasguns are bad. It's been changed to the entire possible loadout of a guardsman and now the entire team which wasn't what I was arguing initially.

We haven't even talked about the fact that most tyranid players will bring gunbeasts. Guard don't have heavy weapons. Where's my heavy stubber? Heavy bolter? Autocannon, Lascannon, anything. I wanted to use my Missile Launcher woman and Heavy Bolter guy okay.

>>53120075
Would be good if they let the guard have bolters on their veterans.

>>53120077
Okay in the theoretical situation that they don't have gunbeasts and only have one tyranid charging your mass of guys who are exactly 2.5 inches away and there's no cover for the Tyranid to consolidate behind and barring the situation that the opposing player puts his Tyranid Warrior slightly to the side of the guy he charges so that he will be within 2 inches of a guy 2.5 inches from the guy he ate.

Krak grenade on a BS4 guardsman. -1 standard. -1 because the Tyranid charged in his last movement phase. Say you have tailored your team so that's what they have. Throw grenades, one hits, probably wounds and all of the rest of it. You've potentially killed 1 Tyranid Warrior. Potentially.

>>53120327
Okay, your stop trying threw me.

>>53120390
I can see that, i kinda trailed off and lost my process at the end

>>53120389
>-1 because the Tyranid charged in his last movement phase.
The -1 modifier for charging only applies to the model that is being charged if they happen to overwatch. It does absolutely nothing for the charging model against other overwatching models or in the following turn.

>>53120389
The charging penalty is suffered only by the model being charged during overwatch.

And grenades ignore the first point of cover.

So the guard being charged is -3, the others are -2. You should be using vets because they're better. You control your own placement so if you aren't outside 2"of each other you can't complain, that's on you. The next turn, the survivors grenade the nid with no real penalties and he dies in a glorious explosion of red paste.

>>53120473
Well dang, learn something new. A tyranid player wouldn't charge with just one tyranid in a case like that anyway, but even more so if there's no further -1. My experience with guard is that they lose in straight shootouts and melee.

>>53120505
The entire of a tailored kill team shoots at one tyranid which charged the mass on its own with no support without being able to consolidate into another melee, and the tyranid dies?

>>53120526
>>53120567
That holds true right up until a meltagun/plasmagun happens, which is the real strength of guard-nothings living through three plasmaguns. Or is the next thing i get told that guardsmen dont bring special weapons? You don't rely just on grenades, they're a secondary solution for if the one of your trio of primary ones is distracted killing the other third of the enemy army.

>>53120389
The charging penalty only applies to the model being charged and if a model is charging you then it almost certainly ended its previous movement phase with LoS to the model being charged, which means you had a shooting phase where you had LoS to the charging model with at least one model of your own.

Your hypothetical situation sounds dire but it's pretty much totally inconsistent with actual play. The only scenario in which it would happen is if you hid behind a wall the entire game and waiting for a warrior that was on the other side charge one guy its initiative range around a corner.

>>53120526
I'm a tyranid player and charged with just one guy 4 times on staturday. One of those times the guy charging got taken out by guess what, a krak grenade.

>>53120609
As I said my initial argument was that lasguns were bad, but it seemed to get expanded to "but guardsmen can take krak grenades" which is not a normal/standard thing a guard player would do, and then "but they have special weapons guys in their kill team" which doesn't solve the problem of guardsmen being a waste. Also note that they don't get heavy weapons, only special weapons, and the only two that are worth it against tyranids are krak grenade launchers and plasma guns for the damage and pinning respectively. Plasma guns can intercept a charging tyranid with overwatch and hopefully knock him down, krak grenade launchers hopefullly kill them.

The problem with the idea if using normal guardsmen as distractions is the fact that Guard are incredibly low on leadership and after losing 2, maybe 3 guys, they will take bottle tests on probably leadership 8. Tyranids have leadership 10 which is miles better. It's far more difficult to take out a tyranid than 2-3 guardsmen who die if you hit them with anything. Guard do not generally win in gunfights.

I'm actually tempted to move over to Inquisition, which is leadership 10, just as resilient or more, and has access to mass red dot storm bolters for their normal guys.

>>53120675
Why did you charge with just one guy, with no backup whatsoever, even following that absurd order to turn your gellar fields off, into an overwatching grenade launcher? Or did they take guardsmen with krak grenades and you still decided to charge into them?

Didn't your gunbeasts shoot them and wipe them out, or didnt you have any other melee tyranids to assist?

>>53120728
Because this game has mission types.

>>53120807
Sounds like you was screwed from the start then.

>>53107342
This. Fuck games workshop.

>>53107754
You've never served have you?