Horus Heresy General /hhg/

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First for fuck you Girlyman

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>>53079044
Seconded. This is now a word bearers thread.

>>53079071
is that your fursona?

Fourth for the Fourth Legion.

Pretty much the opposite to a Word Bearer fan...but now the TS can have a Praetor of triple witchery it kind of feels fair if Burning lore gave access to Piromancy and Daemonology, instead of only Biomancy and Telekinesis, and made the wielder a daemon.
Even if they were shitty powers, at least they would be able to deepstrike with the Gal Vorbak.
I remember an anon with a pdf proposal for fixing stuff. Is it over there?

What are your predictions regarding the White Scars, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels units?

>White Scars
>Keshig, all glaive Terminators, fight with Phoenix guard over copyrights
>Assault bikers, power weapons for everyone, Furious Charge, Fleet, or both
>Possibly Keshig on bikes if FW stops giving a fuck
>Possible Glaive nerfs
>Jaghatai predictions: 2+/5++ armor, possibly even 3+/5++, using Corax as precedent, as his bike will add Toughness, Jink, and mobility for protection
>Manually given the +1 to first turn, seize, and first reserve rolls like Ferrus and inviolate armor
>Armywide boost to Hit & Run (+1, rerolls, whatever)

>Blood Angels will probably get a jump pack troops unit, based on wording of Day of Revelation

>Dark Angels obviously get Deathwing/Ravenwing equivalents

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I can't believe "first!" posts have remained popular after all these years.

Hey, so Outriders... are they anything more than meltabomb delivery systems?

>>53079138
Speaking of the IW; how do you guys feel about Iron Havocs with Lascannons?

>>53079184
Expensive but incredibly deadly. Expect them to be focused down immediately.

>>53079179
Damn straight, load them up with flamers in addition to melta bombs. They're twin-linked, which means they re-roll to wound, which is useful against marines and hilariously good against Xenoforms of life. In addition, you retain the ability to meltabomb shit. All in all, a highly effective but dangerously close-ranged unit. Excellent choice for 30K on a budget, you can convert the dudes and convert the bikes to look good, especially if you get a good deal on eBay/FLGS - I've got a fuckugly pile of 12 I'll be converting into jetbikes/hoverbikes, and use biker/outrider stats for.

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>>53079184
What's the onomatopeia for lascannons, now that CHOOM was taken by volkite?
Because BS5 Tank Hunters -1 to cover is nice. You get what you pay for...and you're getting a lot. An anon said he blew up a Knight before it could reach his line, that they were expensive but could make up their points back in a few turns.

>>53079250
What I'm hearing is, buy more than one unit for redundancy, and plan accordingly. I'm going to run MSU and fill my heavy support slots with them, the only problem is instamoulding enough heavy bolters/lascannon barrels. 30K on a budget is always fun, but it can be incredibly time consuming.

>>53079270
A sort of humming noise as the cannon is charging/loaded, followed by a deafening *CRACK*ing noise when fired.

>>53079179
I've always liked the idea of them as a powerfist delivery unit for punchin' tanks, when I can't think where else to put a centurion because all the rhinos are full.
>centurion with powerfist on bike
>sergeant with powerfist on bike
>marine with power maul on bike
>marine on bike (designated bullet sponge)
Never actually tried it though, mainly because it would need 4 bikes when forgeworld sells them in 3s.

>>53079172

It's hard to see how BA won't get sanguinary guard, seeing as they get mentioned in the fluff all the fucking time. Here's hoping FW do decent models for them. Other than that, I can see them getting some terminators as a space hulk shoutout.

>>53079172
My only relevant prediction for White Scars is that we'll get Targutai Yesugei as a special character as well. And/or possibly Qing Xa, but Targutai is an altogether better option, since there's only 1 other loyalist pysker right now.

>>53079270
is FREEM! taken?

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OMG the Dodekatheon plays warhammer with D10s and the Trierarchs really have applied Nuln Oil to their armours

Primarch archetypes:

Lion: Knight
Fulgrim: Artist
Perturabo: Logistician
Khan: Hunter
Russ: Warrior
Dorn: Soldier
Curze: Vigilante
Sanguinius: Angel
Ferrus: Engineer
Angron: Gladiator
Gulliman: Administrator
Mortarion: dunno
Magnus: Sorcerer
Horus: Leader
Lorgar: Demagogue
Vulkan: Blacksmith
Corax: Partisan
AlphariusOmegon: Spy

>>53079171
Honestly without a different source of psykers short of Daemon allies, it wouldn't do them much good. Looks like the vast majority of their dice goes to Lorgar or Zardu Layak, because you'll only have six tops. That's enough for a couple one or two dice buffs and one big spell channeling Psychic Maelstrom or Summoning or something, which is a nice buff, but given 1KSons get ML3 leaders, ML1 troops and ML2 Termies, plus immunity to perils and 3+ casting, possibly asking a few less points for Dark Channeling and Burning Lore might be nice, plus tossing Artificer Armour and a little point cut on the Ashen Circle and making the Mhara Ghal better or way less expensive.They're not too bad as they come, they've just been power-creeped out of existence save Tzeench allies cheese, and fucking Militia and Cults does that better with no real tax for allies and just as many psykers, plus cheap as chips mini Daemonettes with true Fearless and hordes, and shooty armoured support.

>>53079353
Dear god, no wonder so many people play Iron Warriors, they're actual Iron Warriors posting on tg.

>>53079270
FREEM, of course. Old news.

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Hello, everybody. I have stopped by to inform you that the Emperor's Children's arts and crafts department is now open for business.

>>53079375
Perturbo should probably be Architect.

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>>53079399
They really are getting creative with their work. I think Fulgrim himself made this.

>>53079375
Mortarion is farmer.

>>53079172
I think

White Scars:
Keshig
Some special bikers/jet bikers
Qin Xa
Targutai

Blood Angels:
Sanguinary Guard with Azkaellon
Lamentii Terminators
Azkaellon
Raldoron

Dark Angels:
Death Wing Terminators
Black knights (not necessarily on bikes)
Corswain
Alajos

>>53079380
Definitely, given how Burning Lore costs 30pts and regular Mastery levels cost 25. So, the path they should follow is a more army-support oriented one instead of upgrading what they have? For example Diabolists being able to get up to ML2 and people who have Burning lore becoming daemons?
Perhaps they should add extra dice for each unit with the Daemon rule.

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>>53079458
Give that thing rules.

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>>53079496
Here's what I got for it so far.
>Ring made out of Eldar embryo
>gives fear to the model wearing it

>>53079399
>>53079458
Is it odd that I'm finding the embryo one (after a quick google) kind of the least creepy of these?

You get a lot of "spares" from IVF (success rates aren't great), and there's not too many options, assuming you're not going to make every single one an attempt at a kid - you've got putting them up for adoption or science, destroying them, or, if you can't stomach those, just paying freezer fees forever.

Just no-one tell Fabulous Bill

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>>53079576
And like that you managed to make me laugh at something so terrible. Have a picture of Saint Sava.

>>53079478
Yeah, that works well. Although probably also make their mandatory chaplain better, since the WB aren't exactly wanting for morale or sources of Fear. The baseline isn't bad, they just need to be cheaper and better. Price cuts, Artificer Armour Ashen Circle, buffs to daemonology casting and a decent RoW would go a long way. Maybe something that allows you to take Heralds and Troop daemons in your primary, and have them deepstrike in from reserves? Just so every Daemon you take doesn't have to be allies or a token Summoning.

>>53079665
Guthix be praised someone talking about not-fetus-jewelry

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Has BL made any new books lately? Any new models released?

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>>53079688
>guthix

Get out cuckfag, this is a saradomin-only board

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>>53079172
>>Possible Glaive nerfs

>>53079665
I think artificer armor ashen circle would be a bit much. They would be totally transformed for me with the option to replace hand flamers with volkite serpentas and the option to take full flamers or melta guns for 1 in 5. St5 Volkite serpentas + st5 hammer of wrath + ws5 st5 attacks with their axe-rakes = a fuck ton of st 5 attacks.

>>53079824
Ashen Circle are priced like the formerly overexpensive Assault squads, and their UM counterpart has artificer and power weapons, so either the Ashen get better gubbins or a massive price reduction.
And become available to loyalists :^)

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>>53079353
I know now I want to see an IW objective marker that's a strategy/wargaming table.

Is it a battlemap that the Siege Master or Master of Signals (or Warsmith, but they don't really benefit) and his HW unit are objective camping, or is it games table?

I mean, I like the idea of strategy tables as an objective anyway - like pic related - but the fact that it might just be an IW game table is extra fun

>>53079172
Dark Angels
>Cataphractii squad that leans shooty
>Knightly infantry squad with Artificer armor and sword/shield
>Ravenwing Knights with corvus hammers and ability to take plasma repeaters and/or grenade launchers
>Terranic Greatswords get rending

>>53079922
Well the guys there were arguing on how to predict movement for the Hrud pieces on the map, so they could make a strategy against them.
It's silly of how little use Siege Masters can be to IWs, as their dedicated shooty squads already have either Tank Hunters or the very situational Wrecker. A MoS may look silly among termies, so joining a Tac Support squad seems more feasible.
A Warsmith could camp in the back lines, since they can have Battlesmith + Servo arm to fix artillery, but I can't really think of any use for their Cortex controllers. I don't think there's any IW list that has Cortex controllers, besides Praevians.

>>53080001
>>Knightly infantry squad with Artificer armor and sword/shield
Tactical squads may exchange their bolt pistols for combat shields
I'm not sure if their Tacticals and Assault marines should be able to swap their chainswords for power swords for 5pts, since that would legitimize the SW cheap power weapon despoiler's shittery.

I asked in the previous thread to no response: if I converted it with an appropriate nozzle, do you think I could use plasma guns to make volkite culverins/chargers?

>>53080076
>Tactical squads may exchange their bolt pistols for combat shields
Because we need even less reason for people to take Breachers.

>>53080264
I did consider breachers for a second. Then I thought to myself
>"Ah, fuck'em :^)"
Breachers are a failed squad, fit only for ZM. At best. Only UM power breachers and maaaaybe IFs are decent. IHs are merely stuck with them.

>>53080219
I don't see why not, so long as it's noticeable, or at least pointed out to your opponent. I did something similar with Blasters for my Dark Eldar, and I never heard anyone criticize.

>>53079777
Fagadomin can't compete. Guthix is love, Guthix is life.

>>53079287
No. when someone tells you that a unit is good but probably over expensive that doesn't mean buy two of them. The only way I would recommend running a squad with lacannoms is as a small squad withina bastion/other fortification so you can give them ammo reserves and protect them. Especially if you are bringing Kyr Vhalen since he can buff the AV.

Lascannon havocs are awesome
For their ability to delete something but will almost be a guaranteed first target for your enemy as the other anon said. If you want to bring lascannon havocs I recommend either build a list around protecting them like above or try sprinkling some in a squad (iron havocs do not all have to take the same gun. I really like having 2-3 lascannons in my full missile squad. They either overkill a target or greatly increase the odds of penning AV).

>>53080366
Thats what I wad thinking. Both have a row of coils, and aside from being slightly boxier as a whole, volkites just have a rectangular nozzle in contrast to the rounded plasma head. What I'd use I'm still thinking about, but I'd rather try converting first before dishing out for FW shipping.

>>53080478
Interesting idea, the only problem is that I hate how SM missile launchers look. Maybe I'll convert some?

For now though, I'm happy with bending over for 3 minimum units with lascannons just because they look great and help my list deal with armour/MC.

>>53080219
I wouldn't notice.

>>53080316
Eh, the IH ones are the best for Breachers. The only problem I have is that they don't 'do' anything well, which is the issue with Breachers as a whole

>>53080028
Yeah, I guess you could put a Siege Master with laser/graviton rapiers?

IW can't get the artillery robots, I bet that makes them sad

>>53080571
You'd think a massive shield would do more for your survivability than having a medic nearby.

Same guy who's been talking about IW Havocs and flamer-bikes. Fluffy, not-at-all superduper competitive list for Iron Warriors used to probe enemy defences and capitalize on weaknesses:

HQ:
Legion Centurion, volkite charger, artificer armour
- 70 points
Legion Centurion, Praevian Consul, 2x Castellax Battle-Automata with Darkfire Cannon, boltgun on Consul
- 337 points
Elites:
Legion Terminator Squad, 10x Cataphractii Terminators, lightning claw on Sergeant, 2x Terminators w. heavy flamer & single lightning claw, 7x pairs of lightning claws
- 465 points
Apothecarion Detachment, 2x Apothecary
- 90 points
Troops:
Legion Tactical Squad, 20x Legionnaires
- 225 points
Legion Tactical Squad, 20x Legionnaires
- 225 points
Legion Tactical Support Squad, 5x plasma gun
- 175 points
Legion Tactical Support Squad, 5x melta gun
- 175 points
Fast Attack:
Legion Outrider Squad, 3x bikers, melta bombs, 3x twin-linked flamers
- 150 points
Legion Outrider Squad, 3x bikers, melta bombs, 3x twin-linked flamers
- 150 points
Legion Outrider Squad, 3x bikers, melta bombs, 3x twin-linked flamers
- 150 points
Heavy Support:
Iron Havoc Support Squad, 5x lascannon
- 260 points
Iron Havoc Support Squad, 5x lascannon
- 260 points
Iron Havoc Support Squad, 5x lascannon
- 260 points
2992 points total. Haven't got everything yet and in the future I'll be adding recon dudes, a vigilator and a chaplain to really grind that WW1-raiding-the-enemy feel. The lack of artillery is because I just dislike having artillery on the field, I might get some vindicators in the future though as line-breakers.

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>>53079044
>Calth
>Have one job: Destroy the Ultramarine's capability to reinforce the Loyalists and capture their fuckheug fleet for the Warmaster
>Fail to destroy the Ultramarines muster
>Fail to capture the Ultramarine's fleet
>Lose the bulk of your fleet assets
>Have to abandon a big chunk of your legion on the surface and lose them too
>Fail to assassinate or corrupt Guilliman, despite disobeying your own god's instructions and attempting it. Twice.
>Theatre commander gets his primary heart ripped out

This is what the XVIIth considers a ""success""?

>>53080531
>because they look great
Doing it right.

But, to put another idea out there, one of the advantages of havocs is you can mix weapons within the unit, so you can have some cheap ("cheap") missile launcher or autocannon dudes to act as ablative wounds for the lascannon dudes, while still helping out by occasionally pinging off a hullpoint.

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I've been saving and was going to by my first tactical squad soon, but now I'm wondering how 40k transfering to 8th ed, which looks like a big change, is going to effect 30k and whether I'd be better off waiting rather than shelling out £90 straight away.

Has there been any official word on this? All I can find is a bunch of rumour and conjecture.

>>53080706
If your tactical squad is built with all bolters you can use it in both systems tho? Minus Mark 7-8 fuckery (unless individual bits/sets explained as artificer/experimental armour or armour from some remote forge world).

Basically, all problems solve themselves if you're willing to get creative with modelling and forge the narrative.

>>53080581
>I guess you could put a Siege Master with laser/graviton rapiers?
Many think of this, but Art of Destruction affects only Heavy weapons wielded by infantry models, not Ordnance carried by Artillery.

>>53080601
Wow, that's a lot of firepower. Could be interesting! Target priority will be a tough thing for the other player to decide.

Attack bikes can take heavy flamers, right? They might be worth a look, mostly because they get 2W.

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>>53078966
late for dick sucking faggot sucky men and their ass fucking two wounds of shitsftain fame

>>53080704
I see your point, but for removing heavy threats lascannons are efficient enough to win out over missile launchers and autocannons, just as heavy bolters are better at hunting infantry than the two middling weapons. Focused units are key here, so that they can win back their points and create something of a buffert zone for you to stuff full of fluffy/attractive units and models with disappointing or inefficient rules. At least, that's how I try to build by lists, regardless of size. Bonus points if your efficient guys are also fluffy in their turn.

>>53080652
you forgot

losing the following war against ultramar only to leave and lose again at terra

>>53080706
The only official word has been that 30k isn't switching to 8th edition immediately. That could mean a switchover in six months, two years, or never. We don't know.

I'd hesitate to buy the red books because they're just rules. But go ahead any buy anything else. Even without an edition change, the game occasionally gets rebalanced so there's always a risk that you buy something and it becomes uncompetitive later. You will always have a use for bolter dudes so go ahead and buy them.

But do ask yourself if you aren't better off with a Betrayal at Calth or Burning of Prospero box. I personally think the FW tactical marine sets give you way more upgrade parts than you really need. Tell us what you intend to build and we'll try to help.

>>53080706
Hard to say, though today's reveal suggests spamming fliers may not be good future-proofing, but I assume as IW you weren't going to do that anyway.

I guess one thing might be to magnetise your sergeants in case the meta shifts over what's best there. I have a sneaky suspicion that the humble power sword may make a bit of a comeback, but we'll see.

>>53080652
Didn't they destroy something like 80% of the UM muster? Or was it more like 60%.

It definitely wasn't better than a phyrric victory.

>>53080973
Roughly 50% of the UM, WB losses seem to have been somewhere in the region of 30%. Ok, but not fanastic given they had total surprise and the loyalists were ordered not to return fire for the first part of the battle.

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>>53080652
>>53080973
Half of the UMs died, lots of worlds destroyed, lots of wounded, crippled the mortal armies defending the worlds, but in the end they held.
Still, Lorgar only needed to throw a stone towards Guilliman's ship and cast the Ruinstorm to keep the UMs away from Terra.
Thus Lorgar completed his mission, and anything else was a bonus. And then Terra didn't fall as fast as required and Horus got himself killed by Emps, but he managed to mortally wound Him so chaos daemons won forever, while the traitors lost, the Imperium sort of tied, the Mechanicum lost as well and nobody rushed the Tau town center so they advanced age.

>>53080652
Reminder that the Word Bearers who took part in Calth were literally too retarded to be trusted with anything else at all in the heresy

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>>53080706
>>53080763
>>53080948
I was just going to suggest that: If you just buy BaC or BoP you can "guard" against edition changes by choosing to assemble your tacticals as 3x10 bolter squads. You can then deploy them as 2x15 marines (expecially if you make one of the sergeants a baldy or differentiate him some other way - it'll be fairly clear he's the sarge when he's leading his own squad, and equally clear he's just a slightly different legionnaire when he's part of a combined unit) or 3x10 guys (for the Legion-specific RoW). You'll get some terminators, two HQ choices and either an ugly-ass contemptor even I, the magnificent Anon, failed to make suck less or some really sweet Sisters of Silence and Custodes. Some people say that the BoP HQs are difficult to convert, but I didn't have any problems making a guy from Geigor (pic related). Just cut/scratch off the SW parts of the legs, smooth out the inconsistencies with some watered-down liquid greenstuff, and use bits to taste. I used a slightly modified Mk IV torso from BaC, a BoP Mk III helm, some CSM shoulder pads+back pack, and a plume from a CSM chainsword on the backpack and knife (because why not?). The arms are separate in the kit so it isn't at all hard to slap on other weapons. If you want you can even cut off the knife blade and stick something else there - I can see how he'd make a really cool lightning claw/power fist sergeant for assault marines (or units with jumppacks).

Ok I really need help with something here.

If sisters of silence need to take an HQ for every three units, how the fuck do you run a full army of them without breaching the AoD FOC?

>>53081248
Isn't it a rule that the specifics of each force/army list supersede the general rules? If so, Sisters of Silence would have as many HQ:s as they need, probably capping at 1 HQ per 3 units you buy.

Like, if you bought 11 SoS units, you'd buy 3 HQs, if you bought 12, you'd buy 4. That's my interpretation anyway, Forge World haven't released a FAQ?

>>53081248
I heard that someone found out through a friend that his second cousin's wife's sister's friend asked Alan Bligh at the Weekender and he said that you could max out your FoC slots as long as you had three HQs.

But if you max out your squads and transports, you can hit 3000 points with 3 HQs and 9 non-HQ squads. It may be difficult to reach 3500, but I'm punching numbers into my calculator and getting at least 3100 with a Centura, two of those HQ sisters squads, 3 elite squads, 3 troops, 2 of the beast squads, and the HS squad, all with lots of options and acquisitors.

>>53081160
>t. adb

>>53081319
You'd need 4 HQs for 11 non-HQ SoS units

>>53081160
>chaos daemons won forever

I didn't know ADB posted here!

>>53081248
I don't think you can with them. I think if you want to max out FoC you need Cuckstodes.

>>53081508
>carnac
>ADB
Pick both.

>>53081456
I'm not so sure. Do you need to take a HQ for every three units, or can you buy three units for each HQ?

Depending on the wording (don't have the scan on my laptop) you should be able to have 3 HQs for 11 units, because every third unit bought forces the HQ tax. 3 units, then HQ. 6 units, 2 HQ. 9 units, 3 HQ. And then two more, before you trigger the tax. By this interpretation, you could get 1-2 "free" units of SoS in a Talons army dominated by Custodes.

The other way of interpreting the rule is that every HQ bought "frees" 3 slots of SoS units, and while that is arguably how they should be interpreted (makes more sense to force a minimum of 1 HQ for any SoS units, from what I remember of the general wording of the SoS rules), I honestly wouldn't push too hard one way or the other. Except, of course, if I brought 11 units with 3 HQ lol

>>53081644
>Cadre Structure: In order to field any units with the Company-Cadre special rule using the Talons of the Emperor army list, at least one HQ unit with this special rule must be part of the Detachment for every three non-HQunits with the Company-Cadre special rule in the same Detachment. For example, one HQ with Company-Cadre is required to field up to three other units, two HQs to field between four and six units, and so on.

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>>53081508
>>53081617
Let's don't trigger his autism. Have an old political cartoon.

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>>53081508
It's not something I like either, but until Cawl collected the Void Dragonballs and wished Guilliman back to life that was the case. Only the Emperor could make the Imperial Webway a reality and He's gone.
>>53081433
As in, throw a stone, cut the telegraph cords to Terra and Guilliman will assume the Emperor is dead within the hour, guaranteed.

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>>53081706
>Void Dragonballs
Kek.

>>53081204
Underrated reminder

>>53081786
>Not Krilliman
Dammit I missed it.

>>53081456
Yeah, I'm just saying that 9 non-HQ SoS units plus the requisite HQs is enough for 3,000+ points.

Beyond that, SoS may be as illegal as Space Wolves.

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>>53081804
It's alright.

>>53080571
Iron hand breachers, especially immortals with volkite, are amazing at crushing non meqs in shooting. Solar auxilia, mechanicum, militia/cults. They're also a tough objective holder. Other than that they're meh.

>>53079179
They're not even melta-bomb delivery systems, since you can only use 1 bomb per unit.

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>>53080763
>>53080948
>>53080958
>>53081238
Thanks for the replies, sounds like I'll be pretty future-proof if I'm mainly getting tac squads to start with, which was my plan.

I'd looked at the boxed sets, they're definately better in terms of mode/money ratio, but the Iron Warriors conversion sets are a big part of the appeal to me, pic related was kind of the first thing from 30k I saw/read and inspired me. The idea of Astartes being rushed into deployments and treated more like 'poor bloody infantry' than epic heroes appeals to me, I also found Perturabo replacing his honorguard with robots pretty funny.

I'd prefer to slowly build an army that looks exactly how I want it, rather than go with the more sensible option and build one quickly. Muh autism I guess.

>>53081687
Fair enough: 4 HQs for 12 units it is. Thanks for posting the rules instead of freaking out, the response you can expect is difficult to gauge sometimes.

Here is another thing: White Scars fielding lots of Cataphractii, heavy tanks/artillery and dreadnoughts. Last time I saw the subject raised it was by a guy asking if WS dreadnoughts were fluffy, and I'd argue they could be, depending on the situation, fluff you invent and at which point in time the list is supposed to hail from. Pre-Jaghatai, the White Scars were (much like pre-Corax Raven Guard) basically Luna Wolves light, right? The term "Heavy, crushing and sustained assault" comes to mind, though I think I'm mashing two or three sentences together.

These early Scars haven't adopted the Khan's modus operandi and like to stay and fight, meaning they'd have a different appreciation/need for terminators, breachers, heavy tanks and transports etc, and they wouldn't see anything wrong with it either. Actually, given that they weren't ever a very large Legion it might make little sense for them to maintain their own train of dedicated artillery, but I'd argue the rest holds true.

In other words, the reason post-Jaghatai WS don't use these less mobile tactics isn't because they can't, it's because they won't.

>>53082172
Specifically, about their dreads:
The size of the WS is, as far as I know, not know when the Heresy breaks out, but I think I remember someone say it was about 7 000 of them. Let's assume that their numbers are larger than ever, what with having a Primarch supply fresh geneseed and taking less losses with their fluid tactics. Compared to the pre-Primarch Legion, they mmmight recover losses slower, if they only recruit from one world (did they? Or was it just the DG who recruited from a single world?) with a population lower than Terra and probably whatever other worlds they recruited from in the early Crusade. Let's say maybe 200 marines got turned into dreadnoughts before Jaghatai was recovered, and a few more after that before the practise lost favour. A number of these would have died before they found their Primarch, and finding him cut of the supply, as it were. The number keeps shrinking as they take losses. By the time the Heresy kicks off, almost none remain, and what with so few people outside of the Legion having any understanding of the Scars, the misconception that they don't have dreads spreads.

Aah I dunno man, I think that there could be other ways to squeeze them in if you wanted to. I just really dislike people saying "this faction never never ever field this". They could, they're a Legion for goodness sake.

Thoughts on heretical narrative-forging?

>>53082172
>if WS dreadnoughts were fluffy
Only if they're riding those new Custodes vehicles.

>>53082111
I don't know if this has been nerfed, but their rules say "The entire squad may take melta bombs" for 5 points per model

>>53082252
Well it was nerfed, since squads can only use a single meltabomb per turn. Now they're just tactical support squads on bikes, and that's expensive.

>>53082252
Yes, they may take them for the entire squad, but current 40k rulebook FAQ (same rules 30k uses) says that only one model per unit can use grenades (inc. melta-bombs) in any phase. So pay all you want for those bombs, you're only getting to use one in the assault phase.

Good thing I modeled my Outriders with close combat weapons. Didn't want to use them for anti-tank work anyway!

>>53082320
>>53082360
So should I only bother giving them one melta bomb, or still give 'em to the whole team? Also, is giving them plasma guns an effective, if expensive, way of fucking up infantry?

>>53082360
Play them as command squad on bike. Bikes with 2+ and WS5.

>>53082429
Meh, I'm fine with a regular Outrider squad with 2 power axes and a power fist sarge.

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wasnt there aupposed to be a sorcerer included with these fucks? ir are they going to be max jews and sell him seperate

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Read Fulgrim a while back, was my first HH novel. Expected to be underwhelmed by bolter porn, and I was- the scenes where it was just emperors children shooting xenos were quite a bore.

However, the book had little of this and the rest of the book was fantastic. My thoughts upon finishing it, however, are how could Ferrus Manus have been so cold? Fulgrim was his brother and closest friend, Fulgrim loved him. Fulgrim didn't want to fight Ferrus, Fulgrim could have killed Ferrus at several points but couldn't bring himself to do it even after Ferrus spit in his face and attacked him.

I find it rather Ironic that the loyal imperial son is the cold merciless one who wants to kill the other, who was the bad guy again? I guess I've been seduced to chaos.

>>53082514
>I have no idea what I am talking about *and* I can't spell.

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>>53082851
Whats this in the center of the picture then numbnuts

>>53082940
Looks like a wholly separate character to my eyes

>>53082252
There was a 40k FAQ invalidating "multi-bombing". A lot of 30k events still allow it though, basically disregarding that part of the FAQ on the basis that the 30k army lists appear to have been balanced with multi-bombing in mind. Assault marine-heavy armies also struggle if it isn't allowed.

>>53082673
To be fair, the book is meant to pain the EC in a sympathetic light. Frankly, if my closest brother killed all of my guards, threatened me at sword-point, and attacked my fleet, I wouldn't hesitate too much either. Ferrus does what he has to, especially given the severity of Fulgrim's actions. We're left sympathizing for Fulgrim though because he is being partially controlled by the Laer blade, and does not want to harm Ferrus in the first place

>>53082993
Is that why he's labeled as a sekhmet terminator?

>>53082131
It's cool. The boxes can be harder to justify for Iron Warriors because you really want Mk III armor, but nothing else in the BoP box is useful to you. You'd probably use the Contemptor and Cataphractii in BaC, but not the Mk IV marines.

If 30k does switch to 8th, I really don't think anything will become useless. Feel free to build more than just tac squads.

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It feels weird to ask this, but are Mark III and Mark IV the most common suits for the Imperial Fists during the Horus Heresy?

I would like to get betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero to start my army, but I worry about them standing out strangely.

>>53083120
All legions had all marks but yes MkIII and IV are more appropriate to the task of boarding actions and sieges.

>>53083120
Mk4 and Mk3 both work for Fists very well, it'll be fine.

>>53083157
>>53083170
Perfect! Thank you!

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>>53082172
>White Scars fielding lots of Cataphractii, heavy tanks/artillery and dreadnoughts

The pre-primarch legions still had primarch geneseed, so they should be predisposed to growing long mustaches and going fast. They might even get claustrophobia and not like dreadnoughts as much as other legions... but I'd say they're still fine for non-Chogorian members of the legion. It had plenty of Terrans and they all grew up in massive hives.

Heavy tanks and artillery? Sure. Even post-Khan, I can see them using self-propelled artillery. Anything on wheels or tracks. Static artillery? Only if towed; they do need it to keep up with the column.

Cataphractii is where I'm hesitant.

Breachers for sure, because they prided themselves on their naval skills and did an awful lot of boarding during the Heresy.

>>53083010
The EC are the most tragic legion. They didnt even have any grudge against the Imperium, they were just corrupted to the point where they couldnt go back

God I hope TSons arent nerfed too hard in 8th

>>53083219
You and me brother, you and me both

>>53082940
His torso and crest looks like the one on the right in >>53082514 but the legs and crotch look unique.

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Man, I finished Hammer of Olympia. Not really spoilers, but take them as you will.
I'm now sad.
Sad because it's all true.
Perturabo craved recognition, but was too full of himself because he was excessively objective, and distrust made him reject the love the others offered him, which he thought false or flawed due to his unforgivingly high standards. This strikes somewhat close home.
Probably no one knows for sure what was the Emperor's plan for each of His sons and the way He made them...but Perturabo is pretty much described as a Mekboy: he innerently knows things, how they work and the math involved even if it's the first time he encounters them. Also, wtf he understands Binharic and Lingua Technis!
Though we do get insights at a few things: Primarchs are fully grown at age 12, and Perturabo already knew his name, which he had to find the meaning of. Perhaps that IS his real name, instead of "Numbuh Four".
It is also a shame how his homeworld wasn't happy with becoming recruiting grounds for the legion. Imagine if it had been as eager as Barbarus sending its youths to die for mankind. BTW, I hope that's the next book on the Primarch Series: Mortarion - Farmer Ninja.
Also, I thought Olympia had been merely decimated, but it was way worse. 80% of the population was either enslaved or dead.
However, it makes me laugh how EVERYONE in the book unanimously agree that Curze is the worst Primarch. Perturabo, his legion, even his sister.
Srry NLguys. If it helps, you can always pretend Sevatar is your Primarch instead.

PD: Poor Dantioch, man. Dante move the fuck over, he ended up aged 3000. The Hrud are really nightmarish. And how he was devastated when 'Bo tells him to go, that he didn't want to see his face ever again. Poor lad took it beyond literally.

Perhaps this explains why he's the only Primarch that usually fights bare handed (Ferrus used his hammer): he thinks himself so above that he doesn't feel threatened by anything.

>>53083193
Eh, pre-Corax marines used Cataphractii so effectively Horus praised them, despite having beakie genejizz.
I hope they are, but Sekhmets will probably end up as W4 termies with force weapons of D3 Mortal Wounds.

>>53083010
Fulgrim didnt do any of that until Ferrus threatened him first though, like Fulgrim seeks him out to plead with his brother to join Horus's cause and Ferrus responds by attacking Fulgrim.

Ferrus was the one who started the killing between them.

>>53083200
Fulgrim did nothing wrong.

>>53082425
Plasma guns can work, but it's prohibitive for a large squad. I recommend picking a role per squad and equipping them for just that one role.

Many local metas allow multi-bombing so you kind of have to find out. It's common to give one to just the sergeant.

>>53083315
I fucking hate Curze the edgelord. After reading the Soul Hunter books I just became unable to not detest the night lords, fucking emo whiny melodramatic bitches who wear dark eyeliner and bat wing helmets to reflect how tortured they are.

>>53083193
Being predisposed to assaults (their heritage from the Khan) does not mean they'd be predisposed to hit-and-run style warfare (the tactics adopted by the Legion after being united with it's Primarch).

>>53083120
Yes. You can use Mk II if you want as well. I'd say Mk III suits the Fists best, though.

They did have Mk IV, and possibly some Mk VI but it sounds like they gave most of it to the Raven Guard (after recovering a bunch of Mk IV and VI suits from Mars as it fell to traitor forces). They're less likely to use Mk V if we're talking about the Fists based on Terra.

No Mk VII yet.

>>53083502
Besides having anninferiority complex, but thats less his fault and more of a human weakness. He had a flaw in his heart that was just large enough for chaos to crawl into

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>Play Custodes and am working on SoS
>Fully painted army and play for fun not caring if I win or lose
>Go to local store for a game
>People avoiding me and the other Custodes player
>Look at his army
>Completely unpainted and built for WAAC
>He's an obese neckbeard who smells like death from a good 10-15 feet away
>He knows nothing of their lore and his army background is all snowflake OCs
>He makes fun of me for liking Sagittarum and Pallas despite their bad rules
>Jusy roll my eyes and play a game against a traitor RG army and then a WE army
>He's literally hanging his gut on our table and trying to tell me how to play
>I tell him I've been playing for 11 years and am playing for fun
>He doesn't even say a word
>Turns around and waddles off
>See him drop his soda
>Doesn't clean it up until someone yells at him

Fuck this I just wanna have a game and not have that fucker's stigma follow my army.

>>53082673
>I find it rather Ironic that the loyal imperial son is the cold merciless one who wants to kill the other, who was the bad guy again?
The Emperor is also the cold, merciless one in the overall story...

>>53083653
The difference between Hetaeron and Cocstodes my man.

Bromance aside, did that seriously happen? If so... I can relate. When I was just starting out with the hobby some... 8? 9? years ago, there was this fat, sweaty, unwashed guy who played 5E Spess Yiffs with maximum powergaming activated. He kept bragging bout it and how he challenged himself to eating competitions where he ate something like 40 nuggets + soda, and then he fucking dropped the Captain I had foolishly bought but lovingly assembled. I never found his fucking Iron Halo.

>>53083653
How do you make snowflake OCs out of Custodes? I get that you can do that with Marines and Mech, but they don't have personalities as such in the first place.

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>>53083638
His inferiority complex did drive him to become the greatest primarch, so if its a weakness is debateable. I guess Imperial dogma would say humility is more important than self aggrandizement, but maybe if Guilliman had an inferiority complex too he wouldn't have lost.

>>53083659
True, Im overthinking things and starting to sympathize with Chaos. The Chaos Gods just want you to be free.

>>53083748
Custodes player here. Fuck dude I had a guy like that a few years back that was similar to your guy; mine ended up having anger problems to boot and threw one of my two Thunderbolts when it beat blew up his Baneblade. He later paid for a new one as the manager threatened to ban him.

>>53083765
Custodes can have personalities, but this dude went on with shit like how even Eldar were attracted to his Shield Captain and that one of his basic troops were better than Valdor but denied a promotion to Tribune; stupid shit like that.

>>53083879
He threw one of your models and you settled for just having it repaid? I would have demanded monetary compensation for the painting and modeling I put into it.

Thats seriously shitty he threw your model, I sincerely hope you at least hit him in the face.

Any good thunder warrior bits out there?

I want to do some blackshield thunder warriors

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>>53083843
>The Chaos Gods just want you to be free.
>mfw
They most certainly do not.

>>53083929
I was 18 at the time and the dude was late 30's with anger issues; I was willing to settle for a new model over anything else. As it stands I made $25 extra off of it because I was given that much more money than the model cost. I didn't even mind painting the new one.

As a 25 year old bodybuilder now, I wouldn't pick a fight with someone anyway or someone will scream "roid Rage" or some shit.

>>53083879
Haha please tell me more, I need more fatstodes in my life

>>53083879
>OC custodes
I really wanted to like them but you can't do anything really original with them as they're just so set in stone, I thinks that's why the legions drew me in instead

>Eldar attracted to his Shield-Captain
Thank you for being a Custodes player who plays for fun, and doesn't ask if cheesestodes himself is fair. Thank you for what I can assume is good fluff for your force that isn't getting into Mary Sue territory. Thank you, Custodes player like you are rare indeed

11/10 would purge traitors with you

t. Luna Wolves player

>>53081687
Aww shit, I forgot about this as well. Good thing Sisters HQ are cheap points, since I only want the one squad of them.

>>53083879
> Threw my thunderhawk
You are like an island of calm for not having just flipped out and punched him.

>>53080865
Every Termie is 1W with the Blade of Perdition :^)

>>53084052
Was meant for>>53083653

But seriously, any of you Custodes players who are willing to play fluffy, thank you. To many people jumped to custodes from 40k merely to cheese them and that ruined them for me

>>53083985
>tfw no chill 'stodes players near you, only waacfags
I dream of lands that don't pronounce it cuss-toads


Oh, and on the subject of dreamlands, anyone mind critiquing my list? I'm fresh to HH (though now may not be the best time, I can't stand 40k laughless bullshittery anymore) and decided on the good ol' Ultramarines, since I'm shocked no one plays them. 3,000 list, haven't gotten a RoW yet.

>Praetor: Iron Halo, Paragon Blade, Digital Weapons

>Invictus Suzerians: LR Phobos, 7 Suzerians
>Terminator Squad: LR Phobos, 3 Power Fists, 2 Chainfists
>Legion Rapiers: 3 Laser Destroyer Arrays
>Apothecarion Detachment: 3 Apothecaries, 2 Jump Packs, 2 Power Swords

>Ta(x)tical Squad
>Ta(x)tical Squad

>Locaturus Storm Squad: 7 Locaturii
>Locaturus Storm Squad: 7 Locaturii

>Leviathan Dreadnought: Drop Pod, Storm Cannon
>Sicarian Battle Tank: Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blades
>Vindicator Squadron: 2 Vindicators, Dozer Blades, Machine Spirit

Is this list okay? People say leviathans and suzerians are bullshittery, models are sick. If too broken I'm not really attached.

My main hope is to build something very Roman Legionesque, so maybe Breachers with swords? Also any good ideas for tactical methodology/deployment that would fit Rome?
>history lessons appreciated

>>53084168
what purpose is there for the Apothecaries to have Jump Packs and Power Swords? wouldn't you be better off keeping them vanilla (or at least only kitting one out) and sticking them with the tacs and Suzerians?

>>53084271
I intend to stick them with the Locaturii. That way the squad will be (basically) immune to small arms fire and anything short of AP3 in CC, meaning I can maximize anti-MEQ decimation without fear of much recourse

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Sorry I'm late.

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Quick tangential question: Do any of you anons live near the following locations in Leafistan? Gonna be looking for a new 40/30k group by hopefully September.
Victoria, BC
Kelowna, BC
Kingston, Ont
Possibly Calgary, AB

>>53084012
Well it's a mess because he's clearly /that guy/

>Army is literally best of the best Custodes
>His Shield Captain has Eldar that are deeply attracted to him
>Each one of his troops are known to have each captured a Space Marine vessel in SOLO boarding actions and slaying ALL crew
>His men are better than Hetaeron and are a subsect of Custodes not even acknowledged in annals of Imperial documents
>Their Invuls are projections of their psychic prowess and not actual refractor fields
>Each of his men fight like brothers base upon Astartes doctrines
>Actual guy is at least 350 lbs
>Unkempt facial hair
>clearly doesn't brush teeth
>shirt full of holes
>pants are bright jeans that look like they're from the 70's

>>53084501
>Their Invuls are projections of their psychic prowess and not actual refractor fields
>Psychic custodes

Is that even a thing?

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>>53084501
>>His Shield Captain has Eldar that are deeply attracted to him
Can that be fucking canon? :^)
>>53084724
No because they aren't witches.

>>53084168
>Also any good ideas for tactical methodology/deployment that would fit Rome?
We think they formed up in blocks arranged in a checkerboard pattern, with a line of skirmishers in front. The skirmishers would throw their javelins then run between the gaps between the Hastati, who'd fight until tired or shaky. They'd then let the second row, the Principes, to take over. Again, the spaces between the checkerboards is what allowed them to move new men up. Finally there was a third row in the back, the older Trarii. They were there as backup, but some people suspect they were there to prevent the other dudes from running away from the battle.

Cavalry would be somewhere on the flanks.

>>53084835
Oh wow, that's awesome. Thanks man!

Would 2-3 15 man breacher squads with Medicae be a good way to represent this? Drop the Leviathan easy and use the remaining anti-armor a few squads of termies to sweep up messes. Then the Locaturii come in to sweep up the mess.

Coolio man. I'll get a lost brewing and see if it's at all competitive.

>>53083502
Well, Fulgrim did 'one' thing wrong by taking the Laeran Blade. Though considering that the EC already had a long history of taking xenos weaponry as battle trophies, and even using them if they were potent, I can't blame him too much for that either since he didn't know any better.

>>53084776
>No because they aren't witches.
I mean, if they were, it would explain why they didn't get promoted.

>>53083200
>The EC are the most tragic legion.
That title clearly belongs to the Thousand Sons.

I don't have a great deal of sympathy for the Emperor's Children considering how quickly they embraced their corruption and degeneracy. Their fall wasn't thrust upon them, they just chose it.

>>53083542
Alright. I had the idea of using one squad with plasma guns for hunting down priority infantry models, while the second squad I have to run flamers and CCW for getting stuck in. I'm light on actual armor at the moment, being a poorfag, but I've got the two bike squads with melta-bombs, a 6-man chain-fist Termi squad, as well as a Lightning proxy that I can use to toss Krakens if I really need some armor dead (that also triggers Voss-pattern fans).

>>53084902
Hard to make them competitive... in the grim future of humanity, there is too much artillery and heavy weapons fire to just walk to your objectives.

But yeah, breachers getting into combat before a harder-hitting unit joins the fight would be very fitting.

>>53085157
Right, because the poor, poor TSons were forced to use their psychic powers right?

>>53085157
You took the perfectionist Legion, and the pride of the Imperium, and presented them with the taint of the Prince of Pleasure without the lead companies even noticing. Since Slaanesh's 'excess' can be expressed in countless ways, being even more anal about perfection than usual, seeking greater skill and glory, and thinking about body mods seemed reasonable. Slaanesh took an artisan, gold-filigreed porcelain vase and tipped it off the table into a trashcan full of cocaine. It's still a functional vase, but now it's full of cocaine.

>>53084501
I kind of love it when people do that and then I get to play them, because some of his uberspecial irreplaceable champions of humanity will inevitably get splattered by a random artillery shell, and even if he wipes my entire army I've lost a bunch of chaff and expendable Thallax and Arty tanks, a fancy Macrocarid and three Myrmidons. That's arguably not worth one Custodes, let alone the platoon of them getting decimated.

>>53085182
Okay, that's what I was figuring. Oh well, they can still be pretty beasty for ZM.

>>53085211
They had the best of intentions and would have flown under the radar if Magnus didn't Kool-Aid Man the Webway. After the Heresy broke out most loyal legions started using librarians again anyway. Magnus deserved to be censured, possibly even executed, but to raze Prospero to the ground and kill every Thousand Son was beyond extreme and disproportionate punishment. They were misguided but entirely loyal to the throne and Imperium.

>>53083315

A few minor spoilery bits to comment on this:

Pert getting the "you suck and this is why" speech was FUCKING PERFECT. And so absolutely true that I love it.

Also I loved that we get the first real story of a primarch prior to meeting the Emperor, the only other bit I know of is like a chapter in one of the RG books for Corax.

And confirmation that the Primarchs have some interest in getting laid.

But seriously, I think it reconciled the various depictions of Pert we've seen as best as possible, shows his autism in all its glory, calls him out for it, and doesn't let him off the hook for it.

>>53085377
>defying the emperor's will
>best of intentions

>>53079472

Replace Qin Xa with Jubal Khan.

And probably Alajos with a FW original character.

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>>53085254
>>53085261
>>53084478

I would love to play matches against Fulgrims peacocks and to smash the fuck out of TFG cockstode players, would any of them and more be in the locales I mentioned previously?

>>53085583
>defying the emperor's will
>best of intentions
I guess the White Scars, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves (if you consider their snowflakey Rune Priests to be psykers) should have all been put to death for willfully defying the Edict of Nikea and reinstating their librarians without the Emperor's permission.

>>53080531

There's like 3 very different options for missile launchers now aren't there?

Personally I kinda dig the underslung ones.

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>>53085699
>Punishing woof priests being a bad thing.

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thinking of making all the primarchs in dark souls 3 well prob the ones I like most. but first i'm going to do angron and suggestions for weapons and armor? after him ill do the best primarch fulgrim suggestions are welcome for him as well.

>>53085699
If it means that spacewolves get fucked, I'll take it.

>>53085573
>And confirmation that the Primarchs have some interest in getting laid.

Explain.

>>53079472
Fuck Raldoran, I want Amit.

>>53082131

Honestly it's about $30 USD on ebay per ten MKIII from BoP. Not a bad price if you've no interest in the other parts of the box.

I'd suggest buy BoC then supplement with MKIII squads from BoP.

>>53085573
Guy Haley knows his shit.

>>53085573
>>53085802
She's his sister. Doesn't qualify as a waifu.
...or does she ;^)
No, she doesn't or does she

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Just got in my """"""angel knight"""""" probably my favorite knock off primarch model. Still going to buy the FW version in 14 years cause I'm a slut.

Are any of the EC or RG books good/worth reading? I want to learn more about Corax and the RG in general.

>>53084478
The 30k group in Victoria is pretty great, there's a few really great guys with good armies in the area. A tournament we had last february had no unpainted models, it was beautiful.

Kelowna has absolutely nothing that I know of, though. Everyone plays warmachine and MTG.

>>53084835

That kinda shoot and fall back behind your shieldwall might be doable if I'm reading the articles about 8th edition right

>>53085894
>She's his sister.
Not by blood... ;^)

>>53085802

His adopted sister. He's definitely into her but his autism prevents him from acting on it.

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>>53085988
can marines fall in love cause in my head canon my phoenix guard (who ends up as my chaos lord) falls for a girl and can't shake the feeling of love and gives into slaanesh
> alot like this guy

>>53085966
I'm ignoring 8th edition on the basis that it could be years before it affects 30k.

>>53085988
I never saw that when I read it. He seemed to like her as the closest to a friend he had, but that was about it.

>>53086012
No, they're effectively castrated by the induction process.

Primarchs are more human in that regard.

>>53086017

She even mentions it during her "the reason you suck" speech. Let me see if I can find the quote.

>>53086012
I think there were a few hints about it with Mersadie Oliton and Loken.

And of course there's that really old bit of fluff from one of the SW codexes.

>>53086030
damn maybe slaanesh could cruely be manipulating the marine into the feeling of love for this girl? who btw becomes a demon latter

>>53086030
>implying Fabius couldn't fix that if he wanted to

>>53086012
For Emperors Children they probably can. They can't procreate though.

>>53086056
id have him not understand the feeling like why do I look for her why do I need to see her?

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>>53086012
pic related
>>53086030
It's funny how he looked like a giant bearded man in his 30's on his 16 year party, drinking from a literal bucket of wine.
>This is my son. He's just become a man today. He is so big :')

>>53086017

"Her voice changed, becoming quiet. 'I cared for you.'"

That's really as close as it gets. But to me it does not really read like familial love. And their interactions earlier read more like flirting than family. But that's just me.

Also I love this from her: "you have sulked your way to damnation."

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>>53086112

Here's the page.

I loved so much how much she utterly destroys him with how stupid he's been and why he sucks.

>>53086012
Could they feel love? Yes, though it might not necessarily be in the same sort of sense that we're familiar with given all the modifications marines get.They're not emotionless automatons in 30k. Can they give her the dick tho? Nope.

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I need help finishing this.

>>53086082
Did you even read the damn thing? He rebuffs everyone that tries to get close to him, disliked being called son the same way Angron disliked being called Lord.
The only one that he could get along with was his sister, and that more akin to a friend
>>53086112
He saves her from the assassins, and she saw his attitude would only get him ostracized
>>53086142
Shut up. It's all true and this hurts muh feelings :'(

>>53086157
>I need help
Fixed that for you.

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>>53086075
>>53086074
>>53086056
well the ill try and shorten it. basically one of the artists aboard the "pride of the emperor" ,who also happens to be an imperial officer saves the marine and he feels something no space marine ever usually feels helplessness at the whim of another human. the girl srgt and her soldiers save him. he starts to feel a strange feeling towards the girl (fastforward) the night of the opera that started the first noise marine orgy. the marine wants to show the girl this wondrous music and brings her to the stage she is then corrupted by a greater daemon and her mind melds with the demons she pins him down with daemonic strength and fucks him (he again feels the wondrous helplessness). finally on the battle of istvaan when the daemon is ready she has the marine shoot the girl. this snaps the girl out of the demons mind for a moment, and she asks why the marine grief struck falls to his knees and the demon bursts from the girl's body. the marines mind broken he begins laughing as the keeper of secrets stabs him in the chest. he survives and is now a crazy traitor in love with his giant mistress.

>fetishy but I like it

>>53086142
Damn that almost makes me feel for the guy. Strange that they made the Lord of Iron of all primarchs so human and relatable

>>53086058
Love's probably not a problem. Lust would be more of a stretch... but in Fulgrim, when they're watching that opera performance that goes daemonic, some of the EC start getting tingly feelings...

>>53086225
ye >>53086208 this is what I was talking about

>>53086218

I really really enjoyed this novella. I get why Pert is the way he is and why he turned traitor (basically he feels what he did to Olympia is unforgivable so the time until Istvaan V is just waiting out the clock). And I loved how he understands afterwards that he's doen soemthing he can't take back. AND by having his IW do it they've damned himselves. Also provides a neat explanation of what happened to those who would have stayed loyal. Since it seems like every loyal IW in the fluff was stationed away from the bulk of the legion and didn't take part in pacifying Olympia.

>>53086272
So how does it try to balance the two opposing views of Petuabo, the BL and FW ones?

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>>53086225
Could happen, the youngest one maybe don't even know what that is, depending on the culture they were recruited from.
I think Fortreidon is 15 years old.

>>53086285

In short? Autism and uncontrollable rage.

I can't really explain it better than the novella. His inferiority complex, paranoia, and slavish devotion to logic play a big part. It's a fairly short read and well worth it.

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also lotara sarrin is angrons mommy confirmed right

>>53086340
>Angron
>Kharn
>Black

Really buzzes those nails

>>53086340
Why does no-one get the fact that Lotara is blonde? It's in the book for all to see, and yet no-one ever gets it right.

>>53086357
>Black Rage

>>53086340
>Angronius Tal'Khyr the Twelfth, you go to your Dedicated Ursus Claw this instant!

>>53086340
>>53086357

WE WUZ PRIMARCHS N SHEIT

>>53086357

I thought it meant they were tanned.

>>53086340
Yeah she's probably the closest to a mom figure.

But since he only met her after he met the Imperium it's different I think than Euten for Girlyman who helped raise him and the lady with Corax who was a toddler when he showed up.

Though with Corax that's a bit weird I guess. She's a mom figure but is basically the same age as him.

>>53086157
Nope kys

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>>53086408
>tfw Corvus will never be your mom figure

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>>53086316
>In short? Autism and uncontrollable rage.
Now I want one with Dorn. That guy just didn't speak but would still get angry and not let go.

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>>53086369
every picture ive seen of her has brown hair im not sure why but I love her character I imagine her speaking like a mother to all the angry childish marines around her.

>>53086340
>>53086408
I think the Angron-Lotara relationship is more like a younger brother-older sister thing.

>>53086439
I like how the artist can't draw feet so he just covered them in petals

Also fuck off you Fujoshit

>>53086450
I gotta read Betrayer, because in Butcher's Nails is a "How did I end up here I hope he doesn't kill me" relationship.
>Kharn, say something
>Do not hide behind him, human!
>She's right, you know.
>Yes...but I sense opportunity in the winds.

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>>53086450
>>53086398
>>53086408
I still like her as best mom but I agree with you all. weird I love the EC and they are my fav legion but angron and his legion seem really neat aswell wich is weird since fulgrim and angron are so different

>>53086408
>Though with Corax that's a bit weird I guess. She's a mom figure but is basically the same age as him.
Lotara was 31 when she was given command of the Conqueror and Angron is, what, 200+?

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>>53086541
Not necessarily. While many legions vary wildly in style and methods, they all have their own virtues that define them. I too love the EC, as they were the pride of the Imperium, so much so that they were often brought along for diplomatic ventures. But I also love the Death Guard for their tenacity. The Salamanders for how human and empathetic they are, even among Space Marines. Or even how parts of the Night Lords are basically Space Batman. You're never tied to liking one legion exclusively, they all have good parts to them.

>>53086558

More like 150+, but yeah. That's probably another reason why anon above said older sister younger brother.

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>>53086647
I love they fall of the EC since im an edgefag I love how they were once the pride of the imperium yet slowly descended into madness and depravity. (also I love clean flamboyant armies hence why I also play eldar.) fulgrims tale is awesome and EC are my all time favourite. but I also find magnus plight fun aswell and his thousand sons did look pretty clean and flashy. angrons savegrey is compelling. also I love lotara and her motherly or big sisness

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>>53078966
>Brings a Titan formation to a "narrative" game
>T 20
>W 50
>SV 2+
>each
>Opponent sends A lone model unit into combat with them
>he hits first due to assaulting
>hits
>wounds on 6+ (because everything can do that in 8th
>I fail my save
>His weapon is Instant Death
>Remove Titan from the field
>Remove other 2 Titans after failing battle shock

Can't wait for 8th.

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>>53086742
I love them all. Even the ones I hate. But mostly the ones I don't have.

>>53086788
Wow, that is a lot of known rules and stats sempai. Please notice me and answer this.

How many cocks do you suck daily?

>>53086883
You don't have a single Primarch model. Fortunately. I fear you'd use Curze as a dildo to shove up your ass.

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>>53086883
>mort is pretty on the inside

>>53086883
Don't hate**
Obviously

>>53083315
>I finished Hammer of Olympia

I thought that wasn't out for ages yet? Might have said in your post but I didn't want to read due to spoilers.

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>>53086883
Since this, pretty much. Syber will never draw Morty, so he'll never be breddy.

>>53087154
Truly you don't know of the power of the Scan anon our lord.

>>53086929
Mort is pretty on the inside, though. I should know. I've looked.

>>53086445
I imagined the hand being Primarch-sized, like Angron had just pressed a bloody palm against her chest.

>>53087189
Clearly not.

>>53087198

I know my reaction is why you do what you do, but you are fucking cancer.

If a Custodes managed to go out of shape would he be a tubby custard?

>>53087243
Get out Carlos.

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>>53087189
plz share

>>53087232
what did anon do?

>>53087232
>not personally dissecting every primarch while keeping them alive with biomancy
You bore me

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>>53087201
kek she would have red all over the front of her shirt if that was the case his hands are big especially for a human

>>53087277
Bueno
http://www.mediafire.com/file/yid5y9gb0czd52t/Peturabo_-_The_Hammer_of_Olympia.zip

>>53087307
IIRC the hand covers most of her chest. Angron's got big hands.

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>>53087343
hmm in the art of her it is human sized but maybe the book says otherwise wich book is she in btw I need to read it and any others concerning her

>>53087322
Cheers m8

>>53087307
Yeah, that's how I imagined it, just a massive palm-print and this spray of red fingers across her tunic.

>>53087295

It's curzefag.

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anyone play dark souls 3 I want to cosplay angron any ideas on armor and weapons? im thinking the winged knight twin axes

>>53087201
>>53087501
I believe it's stated that the mark is Kharn's hand. So it would be big but not Primarch-tier.

>>53087590
wich books is she in?

>>53087614
The Butcher's Nails short story and Betrayer.

>>53087614
Betrayer. She makes a nice difference from the normal awe-struck or cowering mortals in most HH novels.

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>>53087394
Srsly, where are you even pulling that art from? I re-read the thing, Lotara has a hand on her chest, but it's Kharn's, and the Eight Captain's face is UNSCARRED, he sounds russian and Lotara's hair colour is actually not described in Butcher's Nails

>>53087648
I agree
>>53087671
I just looked her up on google kek there's not much art of her

>>53087671
Sounding Russian isn't really relevant, as accents aren't going to match modern origins anyway.

Are close combat marines useful at all (assuming they have a transport), or do you just want to run actual Assault Marines?

>>53089777
You mean like tactical marines? They're ok but if you're entire plan is getting into close combat then Assault Marines are better with SoH being the exception as you could drop pod the tactical, shoot BS5 bolter for a turn and assault the next.

>>53087671
>Lorgar was always the weakest of us, and his Word Bearers are no better
HOLY SHIT BTFO HOW WILL WORST BEARERS EVER RECOVER?

WB Praetors were never possessed? Argel is the only one I know of, and he'll be getting rules until 9Ed.

Given the choice, do you prefer taking power swords or axes?

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>>53089866

>>53087671
>Lotara's hair colour is actually not described in Butcher's Nails
No, but it is described in Betrayer as blonde hair tied back into a messy ponytail.

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Made an Imperial Fist 2.5k list to build soon. Any commentary?

Imperial Fists
Rite Of War: Pride Of The Legion
HQ: Legion Praetor w/ Cataphractii Terminator Armor, Paragon Blade, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield, and Grenade Harness 165pt

HQ: Command Squad of 4 w/ Cataphractii Terminator Armor, 1 Iliastus Pattern Assault Cannon, and 1 Chainfist 185pt

Dedicated Transport: Legion Land Raider Phobos w/ Extra Armor 260pt

Troops Legion Veteran Tactical Squad of 10 w/ a Veteran Sergeant w/ a Power Axe, and 2 Meltaguns 250pt

Transport: Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pt

Troops Legion Veteran Tactical Squad of 10 w/ a Veteran Sergeant w/ a Power Axe, and 2 Plasma Guns 240pt

Transport: Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pt

Troops Legion Veteran Tactical Squad of 10 w/a Veteran Sergeant w/ a Powerfist, and 2 Heavy Bolters w/ Suspensor Webs 215pt

Troops: Legion Breacher Siege Squad of 10 w/ 2 Meltaguns 230pt

Fast Attack: Xiphon Pattern Interceptor w/ Ground Tracking Auguries 215pt

Fast Attack: Legion Seeker Squad of 10 w/ a Sergeant w/ a Powerfist 265pt

Heavy Support: Legion Vindicator w/ Extra Armor 125pt

Heavy Support: Deredeo Dreadnought w/ a Lascannon Battery and Aiolos Missile Launcher 270pt

Total = 2500pt

>>53080652
Every time I think about Calth, I get hard thinking about Gorillaman's looming vengeance.

>>53091048
>I get hard thinking about Gorillaman's looming vengeance
What could Rowbutt possibly do to Lorgar in 40k? Banish him to the Warp? He already spent the last 10k years chilling in his Daemon room, why would he care?

>>53091119
Take him to the Golden throne, make him watch as he kills the Emperor and makes the first great move towards destroying the Chaos Gods.

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>>53090841
Only mention of a ponytail I found, and no hair color is given.

>>53080652
Ultramarine detected

>>53091140
Kek sure anon.

Anons I need help. How would you convert some terminators to represent Kor Phaeron's bodyguard?

>>53092013
apply large quantities of concentrated hydrochloric acid to them, for being worst bearers.

Cataphracts with either claws for cool or powerfists for function, and more book iconography/inscriptions than you can shake a daemonic totem at.

>>53084501
I think I'm in love

>>53092013
One pushing a wheelchair in case Old Man Kor gets tired, one carrying a zimmer frame for the same reason, one with an oxygen tank, one carrying a pair of slippers and a blanket, and the last carrying a selection of crossword books and readers digests.

>>53092253
Easy to model.
Just start with auxilia primes medicae

>>53085702
Yeah, That's what I had in mind. Instamould a BaC HB and some other things to make it possible to convert it to a missile launcher, do some cutting and gluing, and done. It's how I do my lascannons after running out for BoP/BaC lascannons to just smack on a lascannon barrel on (with the HB mag being a battery for lascannons and full of projectiles for ML).

>>53092199
>>53092253
Absolutely expected advises from /tg/ :^)

>>53086218
>Strange that they made the Lord of Iron of all primarchs so human and relatable
Only to the autists on /tg/.
Anyone with sense and is mildly well adjusted can see his core fuckups and how they lead him to his end.

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Can I please get some feedback on my 3K Imperial Fist list? I'm trying to play fluffy siege assault.

Imperial Fists
Rite Of War: Pride Of The Legion

HQ: Legion Praetor w/ Cataphractii Terminator Armor, Paragon Blade, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield, and Grenade Harness 165pt

HQ: Command Squad of 4 w/ Cataphractii Terminator Armor, 1 Iliastus Pattern Assault Cannon, and 1 Chainfist 185pt

Dedicated Transport: Legion Land Raider Phobos w/ Extra Armor 230pt

Elites: Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought w/ Two Kheres-Assault Cannons, Havoc Launcher, and Extra Armor 200pt

Troops Legion Veteran Tactical Squad of 10 w/ a Veteran Sergeant w/ a Power Axe, and 2 Meltaguns 250pt

Transport: Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pt

Troops Legion Veteran Tactical Squad of 10 w/ a Veteran Sergeant w/ a Power Axe, and 2 Plasma Guns 240pt

Transport: Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pt

Troops Legion Veteran Tactical Squad of 10 w/a Veteran Sergeant w/ a Powerfist, and 2 Heavy Bolters w/ Suspensor Webs 215pt

Transport: Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pt

Troops: Legion Breacher Siege Squad of 10 w/ a Strike Leader w/ a Powerfist; 2 Meltaguns 245pt

Dedicated Transport: Legion Land Raider Phobos w/ Extra Armor 230pt

Fast Attack: Xiphon Pattern Interceptor w/ Ground Tracking Auguries 215pt

Fast Attack: Legion Seeker Squad of 10 w/ a Sergeant w/ a Powerfist 265pt

Transport: Rhino w/ Extra Armor and Heavy Bolter 50pt

Heavy Support: Legion Vindicator w/ Extra Armor 125pt

Heavy Support: Deredeo Dreadnought w/ a Lascannon Battery and Aiolos Missile Launcher 270pt

3000pt

>>53083543
...Only one of the Night Lords in the Soul Hunter books has puts on a winged helmet. And the others tell him it looks stupid.

>>53082514
>>53082940
The sculptor said it was the prototype for the Sekhmet. In the end FW thought it would be too much resin/require too high a price to be market viable and opted for the pared down version they sell now.

That model is not going to be sold.

>>53084093
Thunderbolt not Thunderhawk friendo. Still bad, but not apocalyptic.

>>53086647
gold recipe plz

>>53083843
>the greatest primarch
I'd thought we were talking about the Emperor's Children, not the Dark Angels.

>>53092486
Surely you meant the Thousand Sons, right?

Got a 3k Night Lords list for feedback.

Terror Assault 3k

HQs:

-Praetor (jump pack, iron halo, artificer armour, paragon blade) 185
-Chaplain (jump pack, refractor field, artificer armour, chainglaive) 125

ELITES:

-Contemptor Cortus Dreadnought (kheres cannon, chainglaive, extra armour) 165

TROOPS:

-10 man Terror Squad (10 volkite chargers, headsman has artificer armour, chainglaive, meltabombs) 275
-10 man Terror Squad (10 volkite chargers, headsman has artificer armour, chainglaive, meltabombs) 275
-10 man Terror Squad (10 volkite chargers, headsman has artificer armour, chainglaive, meltabombs) 275
-10 man Terror Squad (10 volkite chargers, headsman has artificer armour, chainglaive, meltabombs) in a drop pod 310

FAST ATTACK:

-15 man Night Raptor squad (2 x chainglaives, 2 x power swords, 3 x power axes. Huntsmaster with chainglaive and meltas bombs) 435
-Primaris Lightning (4 x kraken penetrators, battle servitor control, ground tracking auguries) 230

HEAVY SUPPORT:
-Malcador Squadron (2 Malcador tanks each with battlecannon, demolisher cannon, lascannon sponsons, pintle multimelta and armoured ceremite) 720

2995/3000

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>>53092486
>>53092501
Nah, Sons of Horus have best dad.

>>53092428
They already sell everything at a price that's not market viable so what's the issue.

>>53092328
>can't be bothered to read own army's lore to find the answer
>acts like a whiny bitch when people fail to read it for them and spoodfeed

>>53092421
>>53092537
looks gud

>>53092421
Looks pretty good, I take it the theme is less general-infantry unit or probing assault, so much as it is "ok, we've got a breach, now put pressure on them"?

The only problem I have with it is that it seems... a bit fragile for 3K points. >>53080601
From a gaming perspective, my list is about target saturation. Multiple units will cover each base (except for flyers, fuck them and everyone who fields them), meaning that even if I loose 20-30 guys in a single turn, my ability to fight infantry or tanks/MCs isn't crippled. The Land raiders help with this, what with them being able to soak up impressive amounts of damage, but you might want to get anti-tank somewhere else than a melta-vet squad. Mathhammer-wise, squads focused entirely on killing infantry or tanks/MC will perform better at their jobs than flexible squads, and at this pointslevel you really don't have to compromise between flexibility and dedicated skill. Looking at IF Legion rules, you'd benefit more by going ham with bolt weapons on your infantry, and finding anti-tank elsewhere in your list. Alternatively, you could tool up your Veteran Squads with a bunch of combi-weapons, for, say, BS5 boltguns and once a game a bunch of melta/plasma, increasing their price but boosting their ability to deal with both infantry and heavier stuff significantly, while still staying a fluffy veteran siege assault force.

>>53092545
Best dads can't be dead.

>>53092537
At that level of investment, you'd be better off dropping a terror squad or your cortus dread chainglaive, really? you think you're a custodian? to get a third malcador and give one of them squadron command, so as to have essentially permanent tank/monster hunter.

>>53092549
No idea. Siege Tyrants at 60 pounds with a big piece of resin strapped to their backs, and somehow these 3/4 plastic pieces of shit are 50.

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>>53092537
Pretty Standard list, outside the Malcador Squadron, (good choice with Malcfriends by the way). Those Terror Squads are gunna bleed nastily without transport/ being deployed alone though. Because any decent anti infantry weapons are gunna geek the shit out of them the second they pop thier heads up or arrive unsupported.
I'd be tempted to drop the meltas and ceramite from the malcs and fit them with flare shields instead. Its a nice edge to give them improved frontal protectio. And they are fast enough to keep out of melta range if you play smart.

>>53092573
Depends if they haunt you with good advice from beyond the grave.
>>53092253
What would the banner be?

>>53092610
I meant chainfist. My only concern with that would be removing a scoring unit. Though the added firepower might be worth it.

>>53092428
>>53092623
Is resin a significantly more expensive manufacturing material than plastic?

>>53092566
Interesting, ok; I like where you are going with this. So for example, instead of a pair of meltas just run 4-5 Combi-Meltas in that squad and do the same for the Plasma ones?

As for the theme, you've got it. Find the crack, exploit it, blow it open, and roll in hard; it's a big reason the Breachers and Terminators have the LR's and will roll in to soak up everything.

>>53092537
At that points level, I'd be tempted to bring a second lightning. Your opponent may have more than one tin can that needs kracken' open, and it's also insurance in case a deredeo shoots your plane down and you have nothing to kill that nasty typhon.

>>53092537
Looks like a solid list. I'm not too familiar with NL rules, but from what a skim for the 1D4Chan tactica tells me it's a highly mobile CC-oriented force, with some antitank mixed in in the form of melta bombs. I approve, though I think the list might struggle against massed MCs. Then again, maybe 40 Volkite chargers will compensate. Certainly a threatening troops selection!

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>>53092573
Dad is dead, and we killed him.
In rebuttal though, incorrect. Best Dad got shit done, he broke the Imperiums smug fucking back and cast down the Emperor and his Imperial Truth nonsense while First Dad was playing in the Ultraboonies and Daddy One-eye was moping like a bitch after getting his shit staved in at Prospero.
And then after Best Dad died, his sons rebuilt shit, reoganized the completely fucking stupid legions and started fucking the Imperium senseless for the next ten millenia.

Need a hand /hhg/, passing the time on a bus ride by building lists, I have the astartes red book but not the legion one, how much does a squad of Fulmentarus armed with Autocannons cost?

>>53092640
Yes, this is it exactly! You take advantage of high-strength low-ap weapons that can be quite situational, without sacrificing the huge advantage IF have with BS5 bolt weapons.

A thought: Instead of a LR squad of terminators, have you considered a larger squad of terminators that deep strike? It might free up points for other things, while still fitting the theme (unless several LRs are crucial to your strategy).

>>53092688
It's a shame they gave Abaddon that ponytail. I know they needed something to make him visually distinct from Horus but I can't take him seriously.

>>53092692
Too fucking much.

>>53092692
325 for a minimum sized squad with autocannons.

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>>53092697
He does well enough regardless of silly hair. And he killed clone Best Dad, making him Best Uncle.

>>53092692
5 of them would be 325, plus 5 points for any power fists you want. Extra dudes 55 points each with an autocannon.

So, basically, what >>53092701 said.

>>53092695
How does this look now? Also I did consider more, and perhaps a squad of Tartaros Terminators instead of the primary transport; but was worried about giving up potential AV 14 Lascannons that allow them to rush down with other squads and assault the turn they get close enough versus potentially being too point-blank of enemy Ap2.

Imperial Fists
Rite Of War: Pride Of The Legion

HQ: Legion Praetor w/ Cataphractii Terminator Armor, Paragon Blade, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield, and Grenade Harness 160pt

HQ: Command Squad of 4 w/ Cataphractii Terminator Armor, 1 Iliastus Pattern Assault Cannon, and 1 Chainfist 185pt

Dedicated Transport: Legion Land Raider Phobos w/ Extra Armor 230pt

Elites: Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought w/ Two Kheres-Assault Cannons, Havoc Launcher, and Extra Armor 200pt

Troops Legion Veteran Tactical Squad of 10 w/ a Veteran Sergeant w/ a Power Axe and Combi Melta; 4 Combi Meltas 220pt

Transport: Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pt

Troops Legion Veteran Tactical Squad of 10 w/ a Veteran Sergeant w/ a Power Axe and Combi Plasma, 4 Combi Plasmas 220pt

Transport: Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pt

Troops Legion Veteran Tactical Squad of 10 w/a Veteran Sergeant w/ a Powerfist, and 2 Heavy Bolters w/ Suspensor Webs 215pt

Transport: Rhino w/ Extra Armor 40pt

Troops: Legion Breacher Siege Squad of 10 w/ a Strike Leader w/ a Powerfist; 2 Meltaguns 245pt

Dedicated Transport: Legion Land Raider Phobos w/ Extra Armor 230pt

Fast Attack: Xiphon Pattern Interceptor w/ Ground Tracking Auguries 215pt

Fast Attack: Legion Seeker Squad of 10 w/ a Sergeant w/ a Powerfist 270pt

Heavy Support: Legion Vindicator w/ Extra Armor 125pt

Heavy Support: Deredeo Dreadnought w/ a Lascannon Battery and Aiolos Missile Launcher 270pt

3000pt

>>53092551
Wew, that overreaction lad

>>53092709
For five dudes?
Jesus Christ 8th cant come soon enough

>>53092747
Wew, that overreaction lad.

>>53092763
>For five dudes?
laughingcustodes.jpg

>>53092787
This.

My basic Guardian Spear Custodes Squad of 5 with Melta Bombs is 300 points.

>>53092800
>5 man squads
>not spamming 3 man squads
Why?

>>53092809
5 is the most versatile and gives you good staying power, plus a total of 10 wounds and the ability to ride a Coronus or anything while still having room for a Captain/Tribune is excellent.

3 also runs the risk of being too easy to kill and throws out too many VP's for an opponent with decent AP 2.

Having played more than a dozen games with my Custodes now, 3 is ok for things like Hetaeron or Sagittarum since they have decent equipment to work with or cover to relax in, but for basic troops such as Guardians or Sentinels it doesn't work well at all.

>>53092809
The only time i can kill custards, as Night Lords, before they kill me in return is when Konrad hits a squad of three. Five is too much to get through before the rest of your golden boys turn up and stomp whatever i have into the ground.

File: 1467676227697.png (511KB, 500x738px) Image search: [Google]

511KB, 500x738px

>>53092712
Abby can't be an Uncle he'd have to be Best Brother.

>>53092737
It looks good man! I did some more thinking and reading, and I have some more suggestions:
- You Seekers are BS5 base and BS6 when firing bolt weapons, so instead of boosting their CC potential with a single power fist, you could give them two combi weapons. You'll overspend by five points, but if you drop the power fist on the Veteran Hbolter squad for a power weapon, or do the same for the breacher squad, you've got the points for it. Alternatively, you can drop all sergeant CC-upgrades minus melta bombs, and really boost your Seeker squad with a bunch of combi weapons that way. I'm thinking plasma for maximum 24" efficiency.

- What do you want to accomplish with your Breacher squad? Almost your entire army is mobile and built to go into the enemy half of the table, and in my opinion they're a bit too expensive for what you actually get to give them really close-ranged special weapons in addition to the power fist. A fluffy and reasonably effective loadout might be to give them flamers (to clear out trenches and corridors and such) and a melta bomb on the Strike Leader (for opening up fortification/tank walls when opportunity beckons etc). This frees up more points to really go ham on your Seekers - they're quite expensive so you want to make them as economic (read: deadly) as possible, to get back their points.

In fact, given that Veterans are fairly tooled up for CC with 2 attacks base, it might be worth some thought if it's better to give the combi-vet squads combi meltas, and save the combi-plasmas for the Seekers. This gives you 2 Veteran Squads and a Breacher squad in the "aggressive" role, with the Seekers ans HB-vets backing them up with accurate anti-infantry/MC fire.

How interchengeable are the Tartaros and Cataphractii parts?

Can I easily use tartaros arms + shoulder pads on tartaros chest? (Does it look any good either?)