/STG/ - Star Trek General

>>53070908
So does the D7/K'tinga more or less line up with the Constitution class for firepower? It seems like that's the case but I figure seeing as the Klingon ship is a dedicated warship it should probably outstrip the Feds.

>>53071111

The Federation tends to enjoy a comfortably large technology gap. Instead of using that to create warships that dominate everyone else's warships, they use it to create a generalist ship that can compete with everyone else's warships on an even field - and hilariously outstrip them in other areas, like scientific research.

So yes, the D7 comfortably lines up with the Connie for firepower. But the Connie is stocked with research labs, shuttlebays, and recreational facilities, whilst the D7 is basically bunk beds, rations and weapon emplacements all the way to the hull.

>>53071111
Yeah, they're meant to have been developed as counter to one another. The way I see it is that the K'tinga was built with more firepower than the Connie but she lacks the same defensive capabilities. It lends itself to the glass cannon feel of Klingon ships in the show.

Seriously, if you think Mirandas have a poor survival rate, try serving on a Bird of Prey.

>>53071202
*self-correction

I'm not certain that the constitution and D7 were designed to combat one another as the next-gen cruisers of their respective navies. That might just be some Axanar stuff that's blurred in with the rest.

>>53071111

In TOS, the Enterprise easily destroys a D7 in the opening minutes of Errand of Mercy. The D7 does mostly minor damage.

>>53071111
>>53072274

Furthermore, in Elaan of Troyius, the Enterprise (once warp power is restored) tanks a D7's disruptors and then badly damages it with a spread of torpedoes.

Even before they jury rig a solution to restore warp power, Enterprise still manages to keep her shields up using impulse power despite being hit repeatedly by the more maneuverable D7. Whether or not the D7 was using full power to her weapons is debatable, since they clearly wanted Enterprise to surrender.

>>53072274
>>53073497
It's difficult to judge things that directly involve the main characters, as they have plot armor. I mean, if you judge the Federation and/or humanity based on the Enterprise's/Kirk's win rate in confrontations of all sorts, everybody else absolutely sucks in comparison.

>>53073836

That's true, and I agree. However, we don't have any other way to measure a Connie's power outside of TOS episodes and the ENT mirror universe episode (where the Defiant absolutely wrecked everything thrown against it).

In TMP the refit Enterprise tanks a V'ger probe shot, where three K'tingas are destroyed. Then, in WoK, she gets sucker punched by Reliant and any further fights are against a badly wounded Enterprise.

In SfS, Kruge's BoP takes all of Scotty's automatics offline (and she's still in bad shape from the fight with Reliant). She's only destroyed because of the self-destruct.

FF doesn't really have much to go on, since the Klingon ambassador just orders the BoP's commander to stop being a dumbshit. UC doesn't help much either, since Enterprise only engages Chang's prototype BoP, and despite the damage said BoP does, Enterprise manages to survive the unfair exchange until they come up with a solution.

The other times we see Constitutions in action, it's because they either disappear through an anomaly (Defiant), get their teeth kicked in in an unfair fight by a maniacal computer (Lexington, Excalibur, Potemkin, and Hood), the crew is killed by an infection (Exeter), heavily damaged fighting an alien superweapon (Constellation) and then subsequently destroyed to disable said superweapon, or are destroyed by a space amoeba (Intrepid).

So, not a lot to go on. Sadly, the Klingons only had a handful of appearances in TOS.

>>53074012

As an aside, I've heavily enjoyed myself rewatching a couple of pertinent episodes, so thanks >>53071111.

>>53071202
How many different sizes of BoP are there? They seem to switch between roughly the size of the Defiant, nearly as large as the Enterprise and a few sizes in between.

>>53075479
There are definitely 2 separate classes. The smaller design is the B'rel while the larger is the K'vort.

The K'vort is muxh more common in TNG while the B'rel is the only version we see in DS9.


As for the inconsistencies in size, I figure that's down to how individual houses build them. We've seen that individual ships basically belong to a house and serve at the convenience of the chancellor. I figure that, besides a central imperial shipyard, most ships are built as part of the personal fleet of a house. Or at least by the major houses, to be distributed to lesser houses that make alliance with them. Hence different BoPs are built to different specifications.

>>53075479
I believe it is just two. Small ship original/DS9 and the 300m across 'wings up' version that only appeared in TNG.

>>53075479
>>53075548
>>53075552
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm

>>53075548
I like that. It presents a decent reason for the House of Duras to consistently stay in a position of power despite sucking ass so hard. Maybe they just happen to own one of the best appointed shipyards in the Empire, so a lot of houses are forced to rely on their generosity.

Just as a follow up to the debate at the end of last thread: Did the Romulans and Klingons ever actually go to war?

I know the Romulans attacked Khitomer and Narendra 3, but the Klingons don't seem to have responded with anything other than some grumbling about honour. That seems like an uncustomary restrained response from the war loving Klingons.

>>53076820
This is entirely headcanon and not backed up with anything but I assume the Klingons sent a attack force to Romulus but got BTFO because they didn't know anything about the region of space the Romulans lived in.

>>53076820
Raids in both directions are probably fairly common. Neither side is particularly eager to escalate to full-scale war unless they have a decisive advantage, like if Sela's plans with the Duras had panned out.

>>53076820
>>53078059
Yeah it seems like the Klingons just didn't have the capacity to go to war with the Romulans. And of course, the Romulans knew that all too well.

They were probably still under the Federation's thumb at that point, so they had no alternative but to take their lumps.

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>>53070908

>>53074012
It's easy to forget just how often an entire Connie crew dies in TOS. Exeter, Constellation, Defiant, Intrepid, Excalibur. The Miranda "all hands lost" meme really should have some competition.

>>53081575
Oberths have a fairly poor track record too

>>53076820

>2293 - Praxis explodes. It is necessary for the KE to come to the UFP to sue for peace, or else the KE will cease to be a functioning political body.
>2344 - Narendra III attack. Enterprise-C destroyed by Romulan ships. Tensions ease between KE and UFP.
>2346 - KE and RSE are officially allies, but Duras conspires against the KE and Romulan forces attack Khitomer.

To me, it appears that the Klingon Empire was rebuilding in the fifty years after Praxis (likely with a lot of help from the UFP). They allied with the Romulans as well, or solidified their alliance with them after the exchange of cloaking devices and more advanced starships. And then the Romulans abused that friendship repeatedly.

It doesn't help that some of the early episodes of TNG claim that the Klingon Empire joined the UFP, which muddy the waters a little (because then, the attack on Narendra III would have been an attack on the Federation, rather than the Klingon Empire).

>>53081575

Part of it was budget. Building a new model starship and shooting the effects for it would have been expensive, so reusing the one they already had (or a cheap kit they could just assemble and damage - like what happened with Constellation) was less resource intensive.

Mirandas on the other hand, are DS9's whipping boy.

>>53075548
>while the B'rel is the only version we see in DS9.

Isn't the Rotarran a K'vort?

>>53081864
No. DS9 station shots show it much closer to the Defiant in size. Martok got put on a baby BoP because Gowron wanted him to die.

>>53081575

I'm thinking of writing something along the lines of a Constitution "all hands lost" story, but I feel it requires more effort and care than just a couple of lines. In TOS we know that there are 12 Constitution class starships as of the episode Tomorrow is Yesterday. My Starfleet Technical Manual lists somewhat more than that, and I've considered taking a name from that list and giving it a go.

With the Mirandas, they're not a protagonist ship, and we see so many of them post WoK that you can be forgiven for not developing it beyond "haha! I thought this was funny!"

Speaking of which, has anyone been saving the AHL bits? I know I wrote a bunch of them, but I didn't think to save them because I didn't think they'd last as long as they did.

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>>53082383
>With the Mirandas, they're not a protagonist ship,

You shut that shit right the fuck up there, anon.

70 years after it was constructed, this ship here? She's still a competitor; when refit properly, the equal of a brand-new Centaur-class Medium cruiser. She may not be the youngest girl at the ball, but she'll still turn a head or two, and whip the fucking PANTS off any upstart terrorists/freedom fighters/pirates who get their hands on a few upgunned runabouts and think they're hot shit because they can blow a merchantmen freighter out of space.

70 years after being commissioned, a Miranda can still hold the line in frontline combat with Jem'hadar warships, Klingon warships, etc. Yes, they tended to blow up a lot - but so did the enemy ships.

So this ship? She's very much a protagonist ship. Just the protagonist of a different story.

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>>53082955

Hold your horses Captain Dodge. You'll win those wargames through unorthodox command style and clever tricks and nonsense, not bluster.

>>53081878
The B'rel is way smaller than the Defiant, though.

>>53083023
Don't forget having and gleefully exploiting a crew of hypertalented eccentrics that don't fit in on more normal crews.


Even so, the Miranda's a starship. A Federation starship. Even old, she's technologically advanced, and when properly refit? Hoo boy.

>>53082383
>Speaking of which, has anyone been saving the AHL bits? I know I wrote a bunch of them, but I didn't think to save them because I didn't think they'd last as long as they did.

I don't save all of them but i tend to hold on to ones that I think might make good scenarios.

>>53083168

I'm not saying the Miranda's bad. She just got shit on because they decided to stop beating up Oberths for some reason.

>>53083133

The Rotarran isn't, since it's bigger than the original BoP. BoP sizes are all over the place in Trek. See: >>53075595.

When they came up with the Miranda, the original idea was a ship that could match a Constitution in firepower, just without all the scientific and exploratory facilities, and probably with fewer amenities. Something that could patrol the Klingon and Romulan borders between starbases without being expected to do deep-space exploration missions like the Constitution. Now on one hand it doesn't say much that it could match the firepower of a ship that was 40 years old at the time of Wrath of Khan, but on the other hand it's not like the Miranda was a slouch.

>>53083207

Oberths were strictly science vessels, it made no sense that they'd be brought up into a front-line fight unless Starfleet were past the point of absolute desperation.

Or, you know, it's the time of STO and cheap, transporter-replicator ship refits are available. And even so, it's not much of a starship. It's basically a lightly armed survey vessel.

The Miranda is the lightest-weighted Starfleet vessel that we've seen as a proper warship - by Starfleet's standards, that is.

Honestly, I feel the DS9 fights could have been done a lot better if the fights had had the Federation starships being extremely outnumbered, and even their lightweight ships were accounting for several times their mass in enemies before going down.

>>53083318
The Miranda was a match for the REFIT Constitution, not the original Connie. An un-refit Connie would get her ass handed to her by a Miranda of the TMP era, and although future refits didn't do much to change the exterior appearance of the vessel, it's fairly safe to say that Mirandas - at least, those which were in service and refit regularly - were still very capable ships deep into the DS9 era.

There's actually some good /tg/-originated fanon that explains why Mirandas died like Imperial Guardsmen during the Dominion War. The short version is that they were upgunned and upengined to fully modern spec, but the shields and other defensive measures were left original; they were being turned into glass cannons as quickly as possible in preparation for the Borg, against whom the difference in shielding would have been moot anyway, then they got into a fight where the difference would have mattered a lot. So they were fighting the Dominion with shields anywhere from 40-70 years old, but phasers and photon torpedoes that were at most a year old.

>>53083431

Tack on to this the fact that we know Starfleet was understaffed in TNG following Wolf 359 and had a ton of ships that were still being built (remember when Picard ordered ships that weren't complete yet into the task force so they could set up the tachyon grid?). Chances are, the Mirandas in the Dominion War were not only upgunned patrol ships, but they likely had skeleton crews.

The Miranda isn't bad. The AHL thing wasn't ever supposed to be saying that. It was poking fun at Trek's tradition of throwing Mirandas (and her subclasses) at things she shouldn't be up against in order to generate tension.

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>>53083431
I've got the pasta here in pic related. I also made it, but figured people like screen caps more.

>>53083318
>>53083431

More fun Miranda stuff before I go: A ship with her registry number (NCC 1864) was under repair in the TOS episode Court Martial. So either Reliant has the registry number of another ship, or she's the same ship from twenty years earlier (the memory alpha page suggests she's the same ship).

>http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Reliant

>>53082955

>So this ship? She's very much a protagonist ship. Just the protagonist of a different story.

That raises an interesting question. What ships would you protag-up on? and why?

>>53084436

A Galaxy that actually conducts its original mission of exploration, rather than returning home every season.

>>53084436
A Nova class, on a "planetary survey mission" along the Klingon border after relations sour between the Empire and UFP. Because you really need a second massive sensor suite to "scan planets".

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>>53083626
Ahhh, yes! Thank you, I needed to save that.

I was using that as the basis for a Trek campaign I was going to have set in the post-Dominion-War era, pre-STO era time. Scotty was in charge of the S.C.E., and he was leading a program to pull more of the old, Klingon-War-That-Never-Happened, Miranda-contemporary-but-not-reactivated-because-they-weren't-Miranda ships, like the Akula, Abbé and Loknar, out of mothballs and refit them to FULL spec, not upgunned patrol-boat spec, to help fill in Starfleet's numbers in the refit yards while Starfleet unfucked its shit and got production of newer classes like the Centaur, Sovereign, etc, underway in proper trim.

The idea was going to be that the PCs were all freshly-commissioned Ensigns with a mandate to go to the old mothball yards, sort themselves into groups, pick a ship (between Akula, Abbé and Loknar,) get it into flyable condition and take it to the refit yard, then participate in the refit. (Along the way there was due to be an adventure, heh.)

>>53084436
To quote Captain James Tiberius Kirk, "A ship's a ship."
I could see any ship being protag'd upon, depending on how early/late in the campaign it is. Starting out, you could even have something like the Okinawa/Masterson-class police frigate. (The Masterson is fanon, but that's not nessessarily wrong.) At the end, you could be cruising around on a Sovereign, an Excalibur, a Galaxy, or another Space Whale.

Me? Ships I'd love to protag on, in no particular order
> Akula
> Miranda
> Constitution
>> Refit only, goldrabola deflector and derpball nacelles need not apply
> Excelsior
>> U.S.S. Excelsior NX/NCC-2000 specifically, but any member of the class in general
> Ambassador
>> Specifically an Excelbassador, not the Galaxybassador, if I had my druthers
> Akira
> Defiant
> Intrepid
>> Yes, I went there
> Nebula
> Galaxy
> Luna
> Sovereign
> Excalibur-class
>> Please not Ark Royal, I wouldn't last a week without going full Innatubes and getting probusted by Dave for intruding upon his kingdom
>>> Then again, please Ark Royal. I want to learn weeaboo fightan' from the Weeaboo Fightan' Sisters and zweihandin' from Mother Coldsteel.
> Valkyrie
> Okinawa
> Masterson
> Abbé
> Loknar

anyone else think it's a little boring that by the end of the dominion war the federation is the ultimate power in the quadrant?

It'd take decades for the Klingons/Cardassians to ever rebuild and the Cardassians would likely just become a client state for the Federation if the Federation helped them rebuild.

>>53085320
The Feds and Romulans were on mostly equal footing, and the Feds themselves had to rebuild a ton, what fucked the Romulans over was the power vacuum caused by Nemesis and the subsequent destruction of Romulus.

>>53084436
I feel like I'd be most interested in a medium size ship that's comfortable enough to live on but still expected to swing by starbases once or twice a month on its patrol routes instead of doing months-long deep-space surveying.

>>53085320
There's always the Romulans. Before Nu-trek came and shat all over it, the new cold war was between the UFP and a relatively unscathed Romulan Star Empire.

Other than that... I guess the Tholians and Sheliak were around. Not that I'd encourage much development of either race, seeing as they're both ethnocentric extremphile races with a particular distaste for humanoid life. And that's basically the most boring form of villain you can have in something like Star Trek

>>53085347
Yeah I forgot to mention the supernova.

I always assumed the Federation could 1v1 any of the alpha quadrant empires but it couldn't 1v2 the Romulans/Klingons or Klingons/Cardassians but now with the Klingons and Cardis out of the picture the Federation seems to just be unstoppable.

Even if the Klingons got back to their pre-war strength they'd always be on the losing side of the tech race.

>>53085399
Like I said, the Feds definitely got hurt by the war as much as everyone else did, and that's not counting that they've born the brunt of both Borg attacks, which ended up targeting Earth specifically.

>>53085347
>>53085397
Roms got rekt as hard as the klinks and the feds in the Dominion War, if not harder. It's what allowed Nemesis to happen, after all. That kind of stuff doesn't happen to a strong empire.

>>53085496
What rekt the Roms more than the war itself was the Tal Shiar being retarded prior to that. For the war itself the Roms entered late, and once the Breen showed up the Klingons were the ones doing the bulk of the fighting until the Feds engineered a counter to the Breen weapons. Of the four major powers (Fed, Rom, KDF, Cardie) the Roms probably suffered the least from the war itself.

>>53085556
It's also quite likely that they had the smallest force in the first place, and from what we've seen they just used their big ships. Fewer baskets, and more eggs in those baskets.

>>53085689
That's the federation if anyone. Both the Romulans and Klingons can rely on the martial nature of their societies to help replenish their military. However Starfleet is entirely voluntary.

We're all also completely discarding the Dominion as a potential future threat. Now that their crazy gods have been cured by Odo, I reckon there's 50/50 odds that they try and start shit again. Except now they've learned not to trust Alpha quadrant races as allies and will try to fully support their war from the Gamma Quadrant.

>>53085788
and what's to stop the Federation from just mining the wormhole again?

>>53084745
Now now anon, the Nova's a perfectly normal science ship. It's the Intrepid that you want with the god tier sensor capabilities, demigod tier speed, and decent combat capabilities. For, uh, deep space science.

>>53085856
The Nova's front portion is dominated by a secondary deflector array, which is excessive given the fact that the Oberth could survey planets just fine. It has survived conflicts as bad as the Intrepid despite having an official mission profile of planetary surveyance. She's benefited from being the leftover design for the Defiant class. And I think it looks better than the Intrepid.

Even if she was never intended as a spy-ship, she has all the capabilities to fill in as one.

>>53085837
The Dominion is patient, if nothing else. If they must wait for decades to strike, if they must develop new technologies and infiltrate the Federation on a much longer basis, they will do so.

It is impractical for the Federation to permanently mine the wormhole. They have interests in exploring/expanding through it. So long as they perceive no threat, they will leave the wormhole open.

>>53085320
The ultimate power is perhaps a tad generous. Starfleet is hurt, just like everybody else. Perhaps moreso even, owing to the slow turnover of new Starfleet officers. However they have a clear political advantage over their immediate opponents, in the short term.

But given a few years? The Klingons and Cardassians will recover. The Breen are the least effected by their war losses and there are plenty of opportunists waiting to strike.

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>>53085980
>And I think it looks better than the Intrepid.

I didn't used to think so, Anon. But on second blush... Yeah, I do.

>>53085980
>Even if she was never intended as a spy-ship, she has all the capabilities to fill in as one.

That is, I think, probably the best explanation for it.

> Rommies and Klinks: Get your damn spy ships away from the borders, you hypocrits!
> Starfleet Command: WTF? We have spy ships near the borders? INTEL! WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?
>> Starfleet Intel: WTF? We don't have any spy ships near the borders. Not THOSE borders, anyway. We're spying the shit out of the Breen, but not the Rommies and Klinks. SECTION 31?! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!
>>> S31: Nothing! We're not doing anything to the Rommies and Klinks!
>>>> Starfleet Intel: We don't believe you!
>>>> Starfleet Intel grabs a bunch of S31 guys, interrogates the shit out of them.
>>>>> Starfleet Command: Intel! We're waiting for some answers!
>>>>>> Starfleet Intel: We have literally no idea what the hell they're talking about!
> Starfleet Command: We don't have any spy ships near the borders, what the hell are you talking about, Rommies, Klinks?!
>> Klinks corner a Nova-class inside the Federation, lock all weapons, and order the spy ship to GTFO now or die.
>>> Very startled Nova-class Warp 8.2s the fuck out of dodge, screaming for help with the Klinks hot-dogging her back into the UFP proper.
>>>> Enterprise shows up at Warp 9.9 to defuse a diplomatic incident before anybody does something anybody will regret.
>>>>> Starfleet Command: WTF? They considered THAT a spy ship!? Wow, those guys are bass-ackwards.

>>53087025
Nova a cute
CUTE!

>>53083431
>Honestly, I feel the DS9 fights could have been done a lot better if the fights had had the Federation starships being extremely outnumbered, and even their lightweight ships were accounting for several times their mass in enemies before going down.

Early DS9 subscribed to this somewhat, at least as a strategic philosophy for Starfleet. They sent the Odessy into the Gamma Quadrant alone because "who the duck could take on aGalaxy class on war footing?" was Starfleet's de facto stance.

When the Klingons attacked DS9 with a dickton of ships, Starfleet deemed fit to send a tas kforce of 6 ships to relieve them. A task force that include a Galaxy, 2 Excelsiors and a Miranda. And nobody reacted to that information like it was way too few ships. The general consensus was hope that they would arrive in time to provide support.

>>53087025
Because of the nature of exploration, any sufficiently advanced exploration ship can double as a spy vessel easily. That's basically what they do with pre-warp civilizations anyway.

Pretty sure I mentioned this last time this subject came up, but in Undiscovered Country the Excelsior was capable of determining that a giant fuck-off subspace shockwave originated specifically from a moon orbiting the capital planet of their current main enemy, and then getting a live visual feed of that moon, all in under a minute, and the Excelsior was just supposed to be cataloguing gaseous anomalies. Imagine what a fully kitted-out late-24th century exploration vessel would be capable of doing as a spy ship.

>>53087197
Yeah. I kind of miss that: Starfleet ships are basically the Space Marines of Trek combat - the FLUFF Marines. Virtually ANYONE ELSE has them heavily outnumbered; they have everyone else massively outclassed.

Even an older, smaller Starfleet ship - IE, a Miranda, or even an Akula - should be nothing at all to take lightly, even if you're in the likes of a Galor-class warship or a new B'rel-class bird of prey. Even a D'Deridex or Negh'var should want to take full use of every tactical advantage they can get if attacking a Miranda. A Galaxy should be "Okay, on paper we might win, MIGHT, if the stars align in our favor. Let's consider calling for backup, or going somewhere else today."

>>53087251
>Because of the nature of exploration, any sufficiently advanced exploration ship can double as a spy vessel easily.

That's actually a really good point of contention. The Federation is all about science. Science is life, science is love, science is what lets them pull wacky shennanigans out of their aft that defeat the Borg. They see science and knowledge as goals unto themselves, things that should be made free to all. For the UFP to suppress information, it has to be psychobad, like the operating principles behind the Genesis Effect.

To the RSE and the Klinks, knowledge is power: hide it well. So they get super-antsy when the Feddies are sending ships packed full of sensors that can get real-time feeds on shit light-years away near their borders. Meanwhile, the Feddies are using those ships to do planetary surveys and gaseous anomaly catalogues, and aren't even thinking about spying on the Rommies and Klinks, because that's not their assignment.

And yet, they are, in a way, spying on the Rommies and Klinks, because their ships are always gathering sensor data. It's WHAT THEY DO. They're just not actually EVALUATING it as strategic data.

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>>53087355
> Rommie Stealth Recon Vessel Captain
>> Gnashes teeth
>> That Federation fucker has to KNOW we have an automated listening post here. He has to! Why else would he be scanning this planet so intently? How well is it hidden?!
>>> RSRV Subcaptain
>>> Very well hidden, sir. It's, uh... Cloaked. Behind several layers of sensor-defeating material. And in a canyon lined with minerals and materials that fuck with every sensor known to the Romulan Star Empire.
>> How sure are you that they can't find it?
>>> About... 80...88% Maybe. Fuck it, sir, it's the Federation, those bastards put spy sensors on everything, I don't have a goddamn clue. The sensor mast is retracted, though... But... I don't like our chances.
>> They'll get super butthurt if they find this on their side of the border. What if we send the self-destruction signal - what are the chances they'll detect THAT?
>>> About 90%. But we used basically all components we bought from the Ferengi. The only thing in that listening post that was ours was the cloaking device, and I am 200% certain that'll be vaporized beyond any recognition.

> Starfleet Sciences Officer
>> Oh man, there's a whole bunch of nifty avian life on this planet, I wanna go down there with a holorecorder and get some pictures to send my mate and offspring, and WOAH! What the fuck is that?
>>> Starfleet Captain
>>> Lt! Report!
>> Just got a high-energy reading from that messed up mineral canyon on the northwest continent, sir. Looked like some kind of... I dunno, disruption pulse.
>>> Well hell, send an away team. That sounds worth investigating.

> RSRV Captain
>> Yep, they saw it! Wait until we're opposite them in our orbit then Warp 9.9 the hell out of here!

>>53087493
Who is this semen demon? It looks like a civilian-ized D'deridex.

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>>53087793
It's a Romulan science vessel created using reverse engineered Dyson Sphere tech. Starfleet and the Klingons have their own versions.

>>53087251
We do that already IRL. The US and UK in particular as the preeminent naval powers out of the past 200 years that still have the tech base to do so, will load up """""civilian research vessels""""" with more data gathering gear than you can shake a torpedo at, and occasionally loan them out to the spy agencies or military. This of course gives Russia, China, and North Korea massive ulcers. This maps directly to Trek. Starfleet is basically "what if NASA, NOAA, the CIA, and the Navy and Air Force were all the same organization?" but IN SPAAAAACE.

>>53087355
The incident where a pair of F-22s used a drone to lure out some Iranian F-4 Phantoms (yes, the plane older than TOS), sneak up behind them, and shout "OOGA BOOGA BOOGA" like the old man from Courage the Cowardly Dog is exactly how I see the Klingons and Romulans reacting to Starfleet exploration ships.
>doot dee doo, patrolling the Klingon borders and BoP BoP BoPin' along
>[massive sensor beam sweeps the ship, causes a static buildup in the females' hair, and reheats the captain's Raktajino]
>OH KAHLESS WHAT THE TARGSHIT JUST GAGHING HAPPENED WHY ISN'T THE CLOAK UP YOU BASTARDS
>It is up, sir.
>Wat.
>[plasma arcs all over the bridge and the ship decloaks]
>It WAS up, sir.
>[Lieutenant Commander Skippy in command of the nearby Nova class hails them.]
>Hi guys, sorry about that, we were scanning that asteroid over there for some fascinating Hepta-Beryllium formations and it looks like we goosed the power too high on the beam. Do you require assistance?
>[Klingon captain screams in fury and throws his raktajino at the viewscreen. His comms officer cuts the connection.]
>Get me the high council. They must be informed of these new spy beams immediately!

>>53088344
>[Lieutenant Commander Skippy in command of the nearby Nova class hails them.]

Oh god, they made that Magnificent Bastard an OFFICER? BWAHAHAHAAHAAAH!

>>53087827
I would love to see a Miranda-y version of that.

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>>53089016
:^)

>>53089702
Heh. Not *exactly* what I had in mind...

But better than what I had in mind. So, so saved.

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>>53089702
Here, in thanks, have a Youtube link to what I think is the flat-out best music to kick a race's own ass to from SCF2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26xoXRhxOXg

This is the soundtrack to a Miranda loaded with PhGs and Dro-Gs, escorted by two Akulas loaded with Dro-Gs, bearing down on a lone Interstellar Concordium dreadnought.

1x F-NEC
2x F-DDG+

My favorite single-high-value-target sucker-punch. 3x Scatterpacks with the ships riding in RIGHT behind the drones. When the first wave of missiles hit/are shot down, launch the second, and close in for the kill. By this point, the enemy's shields SHOULD have a hole in them, that's where the NEC's 4x PhGs - each of which is basically 4x Ph3s - comes in, at under 1 range. It's like unloading an LBX/AC-20 at point-blank range on someone whose armor is shrekt.

If they SURVIVE that salvo, they're probably going to be a burning wreck with no systems operable, that you can pick off at your leisure. This is the outcome you want, as if they DON'T survive, you're going to have eaten unnecessary damage from an enemy ship explodinating at point-blank range, but if that's what you gotta do, it's what you gotta do.

If they survived that IN FIGHTING CONDITION, you picked a fight way the hell out of your weight class, like with a starbase or an armed planet, and oh shit son, what you doing?

>>53087251
>we don't have to imagine, we can just look to the adventures of admiral (you)

>>53090065
SFC2 had bad music.

SFC and Ron Jones was where it is, and was, at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ti7S223v0

>>53084643
this would actually be pretty cool, but I don't think the galaxy class is well armed enough tho

>>53092488
I'd love to drive around deep space on one of these instead
http://memory-gamma.wikia.com/wiki/Excalibur_II_class

I know I know, they're not canon

>>53092488
>I don't think the galaxy class is well armed enough tho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJilKdc6RIA

>>53092647
but it wouldn't fare well against big swarms of smaller ships, and it would get fucked if they bumped into some strongish civilization while alone in deep space

>>53092686
That's pretty much what the Enterprise dealt with on a weekly basis though, some big evil ship that really just wants to be understood or wipe out all sentient life, either or. Her entire mission profile is based around being self sufficient for long periods of time. Hell, pretty much anything from a Connie up is capable of holding it's own in deep space.

As for a swarm of small ships, that seems to be a fairly rare strategy, however I can't see many other ships faring better on their own.

>>53092729
>As for a swarm of small ships, that seems to be a fairly rare strategy
Unless you're the Dominion.

USS Odyssey got rekt.

>>53092826
At that point in time, every ship in Starfleet was liable to the same weaponry. Dominion weapons could straight up ignore Starfleet shields. Didn't matter if it was a Miranda or a Galaxy, the ship was fucked from the get-go.

Most arguments of this nature will inevitably come down to "well why do we have any reason to suspect another ship, contemporaneous with the Galaxy class, would fare substantially better?"

>>53092826
gee, can't think of a single other starfleet ship that got fucked up by the dominion.

>>53092907
the defiant had a nice run before getting destroyed

>>53092729
It may be rare, but in these super deep space missions there is a greater than zero chance to find it, it it really sad that you could easily destroy a flagship just by taking a different approach to space warfare

>>53092920
The Defiant was also disabled and captured in her very first engagement with the Jem Hadar. The only real difference is that the Dominion felt like taking prisoners that day.

>>53092944
the funny thing is that we'll never know how the sovereign class fared against dominion ships

>>53092959
What WAS the enterprise doing for the entire war anyway?

>>53092997
Dunno, in the collected tails of grand admiral (you) (STO), it is said that it flew to Earth when the Breen were bombarding it.

BTW, did Federation ever glass Breen prime in retaliation for that?

>>53092997
there were another sovereign class starships, there wasn't any reason for them to not show up

>>53092959
I'd wager about as well as Starfleet's other heavy hitters at the end of the war. By then, Starfleet had fully overhauled their shielding and auxiliary systems. We see larger ships like the Galaxy, Excelsior and Nebula tanking shots that could and do fuck up smaller ships, like the Akira.

Starfleet were probably worried about sending out their shiny new flagship to potentially get dog-piled by Dominion ships. You can have the best shields in the world, but a Dominion attack ship plowing through your hull tends to only end one way.

>>53093042
No because It's federation philosophy that if you fight you enemies they win.

>>53093072
what I don't understand is that the registry numbers were in the 60,000s and there weren't even a quarter of that "available" at the war period

>>53093089
Fucking Trudeau doctrine...

>>53093072
Do you think they got the children who were there for no reason off the ships before sending them into the fight? Or is that too much like military thinking and therefore not something Star Fleet would do?

>>53092997
Probably assigned to rear guard. I remember reading somewhere that the Enterprise was at the Battle of Betazed.

>>53093055
How many Sovereigns are there anyway? We can infer that there are at least two - there would have to have been a USS Sovereign.

>>53093106
Presumably, though iirc kira needed to tell them to do that with the odessy.

>>53093129
>>53093055
There's no canon stuff for it. But in Bridge Commander, the Sovereign is only just being put into full service because she had been a test-bed for a shit-ton of new tech during the War.

>>53093129
according to memory alpha, only the enterprise is confirmed

but of course there is a uss sovereign, because there is always one ship named after her class

>>53093106
I remember the Captain of the Odyssey mentioning that for the mission they where taking, they where leaving all non-essential personel behind to DS9 as they where expecting combat. So i would imagine any ships taking part of the Dominion War this would be standard.

>>53093154
Do we know anything about the USS Galaxy?

>>53093157
If only Galaxy-class starships had some way of separating the part of the ship where nonessential personnel and equipment are kept.

>>53093106
By the start of the Dominion war, Starfleet had finally stopped allowing families on board their starships.

>>53093160
yes http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Galaxy

>>53093170
>crippling you ship on purpose instead of unloading the uselesspeople

>>53093160
Just that she came in to service a few years before the Yamato and Enterprise, but that's only from the starship spotter. Otherwise it's just inferred that she exists.

>>53093133
I'm relatively sure it was Dax. Because her and captain whoseyfucker hated each other with a burning passion and needed to nettle one another throughout their entire conversation.

>>53093188
>crippling your ship
>by offloading a big chunk of dead weight
All the fucking weapons are on the stardrive section, anon. Both torpedo launchers and all but two of the phaser arrays.

You lose the saucer's two big-ass arrays, but you gain the battle bridge main array so that's a net loss of one.

>>53093089
The Breen surrendered along with the Dominion. It's not very starfleet to go committing war crimes against a surrendered civilian populations just for shits and giggles. Now the Romulans... that's a different story.

It's fair to assume that the Breen had most of their military capacity restricted after the war and ended up with the Klingons, Romulans and Feds aquiring some extant outposts of theirs.

Do the ferengi actually HAVE a military?

>>53093395
It's more like a state-sponsored series of Privateers, but yes, they do technically have a military.

>>53093395
>>53093421
Like everything else in the Ferengi Alliance, the Ferengi navy is privatized.

>>53093170
What's a tad more egregious is that the Odessy made no attempt to save the saucer section, which would have spared at least some of the crew. It is, after all, intended as a sort of lifeboat.

>>53094137
It wouldn't have spared anyone, there was no way the dominion were going to let it get away.

>>53094148
Aye, but they could at least try. And you never know, maybe they were satisfied that their point was made.

Kind of like when they let the survivors of the breen weapon escape to sow fear.

>>53094223
If that were the case, they wouldn't have rammed the fucking thing, they'd have let the crippled ship limp home.

And the separation effects were expensive :^)

>>53085980
I figure Starfleet Intelligence get to pick a few ships from new classes to alter at their own discretion for surveillance work. Science ships, with their extremely powerful and accurate sensor arrays are an obvious choice for that role. Not to mention it's much easier to explain the presence of a "planetary survey ship" near the neutral zone than it is to explain why the Enterprise is hanging around.

And if you need to do something supremely dodgy, like design a phase cloak, you probably want a ship with a low mission profile.

>>53093099
Well there's a few different things to consider. A lot of the last centuries designs have been fully retired. And we're not just talking Connie-era here. We see no sign of the proto-Galaxy ships during the war, of which there must be a fair few. We also don't see any designs contemporaneous with the Ambassador. For every perpetual Excelsior and Miranda class, there is a Freedom or Niagara class that doesn't even see out 2 decades.

And, probably a big part of those inflated numbers, Runabouts get individual NCC numbers. And there must be a shit-ton of them.

>>53088840
Glad I'm not the only one that caught that.

>>53096427
Enlighten the uninformed, if you would?

>>53097259
Skippy The Magnificent is a complete asshole AI from the Columbus Day series. The books are alright, though most of the things that grate on me are things that really only vets and active military would notice (If you can get through the oddity that is an entirely commissioned officer crew of ST, you'll be fine) and that there are a fair number of more minor issues due to it being self-published. Not a bad read, if you want some okay sci-fi that doesn't require too much thinking. No glaring issues, just some minor gripes here and there. I think they're $4 on Kindle, so they're worth a beer.

>>53097511
Oh, wow, really? That's what you were thinking?

I mean, I've READ that book series, and I like it, but I was thinking of Skippy from the eponymous Skippy's List (of 213 things Skippy Can't Do in the U.S. Army.)

Several people have written lists of things Skippy Can't Do aboard the Starship Enterprise (among other settings.)

> Skippy's List #717
>> May no longer intentionally "unintentionally" direct full sensor sweeps at Klingon Bird of Preys who think we can't see through their cloak for the purposes of getting a rise out of them.
>>> Damn it, Skippy, Starfleet Command doesn't want them to know that even our ordinary ships can see through their cloaks now and the old Tachyon Detection Grid is unnecessary!

The funny thing is, both Skippys are Magnificent Bastards and hilarious assholes, so it works!
Oh, oh god.
> Instead of Colonel Joe...
>> Skippy meets Skippy.
>>> Shennanigans Ensue.

>>53093072
There are a few novels that DO show the Enterprise-E engaging in the Dominion War directly, for what it's worth. It's

>beta canon

but I could see Starfleet eventually getting over their nervousness about that in the later parts of the war, especially as the Dominion started slipping.

>>53094137

Saucer separation takes time. Yes, they could have separated before battle, but then half the ship is incapable of going to warp, and in order to have any chance of getting home, it would have to reconnect to the stardrive hull.

Otherwise the Dominion would just catch it at impulse and destroy it anyway.

>>53098026
I didn't even know that existed until now. Colonel Joe is probably have an aneurysm if they both met.

>>53098228
The Galaxy class saucer can totally go warp, they do it in the very first episode of TNG.

>>53098280
Really? 'Cause I get the feeling that Colonel Joe and Specialist "Skippy" Schwartz would get along just, just fine.

They seem to be largely cut from the same cloth.

>>53098340
The official line, If I recall correctly, is that the saucer can maintain warp for a period of time with its impulse engines, but can't initiate warp by itself.

>>53098471
Oh, they'd get along just fine. But imagine Skippy the Magnificent during all of this. Something tells me that it wouldn't end well for the monkeys.

>>53098340

Not according to the Technical Manual or the episode in question. They can separate at warp, and it rapidly loses speed as the warp bubble deteriorates. Once that happens, all she has is impulse drive.

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>>53098547
Are you kidding? Skippy the Magnificent and Specialist Skippy would ALSO get along just fine.

But you're right. It would not end well for the monkies. But it would end hilariously.

Here, have Lt. Commander Skippy's Trollboat of Loooooooove.

>>53098847
True, and let's be real. Are we looking for anything else here?

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>>53091927
>SFC2 had bad music.
You shut your fucking mouth. SFC2 had great music. I can't weigh in WRT whether or not SFC1's was good or better, but SFC2's was great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K7eBkRfsSs

Tell me about captain (you)'s ship. And I do t mean your STO toon. I mean your ship. The one that you imagine being a part of, captain or otherwise. The more details the merrier.

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>>53098841
>>53098340

Here's the relevant bits from Encounter at Farpoint:

>PICARD: Records search, Data. Results of detaching saucer section at high warp velocity.
>DATA: Inadvisable at any warp speed, sir.
>PICARD: Search theoretical.
>DATA: It is possible, sir. But absolutely no margin for error.

Then later:

>PICARD [OC]: At the moment of separation, we will reverse power just enough to get your saucer section out ahead and clear of us.
>WORF: Understood, Captain.

>http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/101.htm

From the TNG Tech Manual, page 5:

"[...] the Saucer Module would have to have the capability of high sublight speed and possibly survive a separation at high warp."

Pg. 27-28:

"As the Saucer Module is equipped only with impulse propulsion, computational modeling has verified that special cautions must be observed when attempting separation at high warp factors."

"Decaying warp field energy surrounding the Saucer Module is managed by the driver coil segments of the impulse engines. This energy will take, on average, two minutes to dissipate and bring the vehicle to its original I think they meant "standard" rather than original, since it was originally traveling at warp sublight velocity."

There's no source that I can find that shows any warp reactor or warp drive in the saucer section. She has two impulse engines (and the stardrive section has the third, the antimatter reactor, and warp nacelles).

The problem with using the saucer as another battle platform is that after two minutes, she no longer has a warp field to make her maneuverable, and she'd be a sitting duck (like Enterprise was in the TOS episode Elaan of Troyius).

>>53099093
I guess the actual Flagship would be one of the Command Battlecruisers, since that's what they're for. But Grand Admiral (You) travels from ship to ship, training their crews on how to be great (thus, the mastery levels), while the proper captain and bridge crew take over the flagship.

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>>53099093

Optimistically, but Realistically?
Pic Related. USS Gryphon, NX-798102
> Gets a civilian post with Starfleet, shuttling runabouts from the runabout yards to where they're needed, and hitching rides home to do it again.
>> Eventually becomes an expert on small craft operations, maintenance, etc.
>>> Asks for an Ensign commission to allow me to take part in prototype Runabout testing and quality assurance.
>>>> Get to play with nice, shiny runabouts that may or may not make full production.
>>>> Gryphon is too nice and too expensive to replace the Danube class in full service, too small to be a Captain's Yacht for bigger ships.
>>>> Prototypes get built, design gets finished and finalized, but production never commences.
>>>> Keep the Gryphon prototype, saving it from being scrapped. It sits in a hangar most of the time, but I lavish attention and affection on it as my own little ship, of which I am its own little Captain, spending weekends polishing the hull, optimizing the deutertium-antimatter intermix, begging, trading and borrowing technical expertise to get advanced/prototype/nonregulation equipment for it.

>>53099261
>Pic Related. USS Gryphon, NX-95322
Fixed That For Me.

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>>53099093
It's a rattling heap of odd parts from the old days of the Federation, back from the days when Starfleet officials didn't live in ivory towers and the spirit of the law was held higher than the letter of it.

Ancient captain Jed likewise a relic from a different era (still in centuries out of date uniform). He is quite mad, his crew follow him out of a combination of horrified endearment and morbid curiosity, on the bad days he calls them by the names of people friends that have been dead a hundred and fifty years and is instinctively slightly racist to Klingons and Romulans.

The crew are fuckups and dropouts and last chancers. Those who do penance and those in exile and those who run and those who hide.

The ship itself is made of scrap and salvage and sometimes even genuinely requisitioned parts. It's a hideous Chimera of war-crime weapons and regulation violations that the most atheistic engineer would still dub unholy. It debatable if the ship has gone full Ship of Theseus yet. It's corridors are winding and uneven, dust hangs in the air, the lights flicker, the deckplan/s is/are not at a 1:1 with the reality of the ship the food dispensers can just about manage ye olde "food cubes". Engineer Jones set up a still somewhere in the engine room, security pretends they don't know.

It is said that Death stalks the corridors like a member of the crew but if he does then it's in comfy slippers and a warm jacket.

Captain spent half the Dominion War hallucinating the Jem'Hadar were ridgeless Klingons. At his hip is a very old phaser of the sort that hasn't been made in ~180 years.

It's continued existence is considered by most to be a clerical error. Cpt. Jed keeps a low profile. If he makes the Brass to aware that he's still going they might try and take the ship off him again. He doesn't want that. He is in his twilight years and intends to die on the ship. It will take him across the Styx soon.

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>>53099698
>tfw my TOS themed captain is named Jed

Did you write this after me?

>>53099818
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WDRxtd-2dQ

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>>53099093
We lost our D'deridex, the RRN Edge of Paradise, a long way from home fighting in someone else's war for a most annoying people not even from our quadrant. Just before our singularity containment went critical, we managed to bring down the shields of the enemy ship and beam all the survivors to it. The battle to take control of the ship was long and hard but we eventually put those vipers in their place. Their ship was small but powerful and we claimed it as rightful war trophy. With some adjustments, it became our new home. A mixture of strange alien technology and Romulan comforts and the swimming pool someone installed in the cargo bay by accident, it brought us through battle after battle, never failing us and as long as we can keep it out of the hands of Starfleet Intelligence, she'll keep on serving the Republic.

>>53100328
Ooooh. Cute little ship. What is she?

>>53100560
It's a Vaadwaur Manasa, an "assault escort".
I haven't played in over a year, but I geared it up in full polarons (no one understands polarons) and had it all upgraded.

>>53100560
Vaudwaar cruiser. You haven't even seen the engine trails off it. They're aesthetic as fuck.

haven't played sto since 2013, apparently.

Is it worth coming back? Is there a guild for this taiwanese shadow painting board?

Can I make a catgirl and have a ship crewed entirely by bikini clad spacegirls?

>>53101591
>Is it worth coming back?
Depends why you left. I think it's fun.
>Is there a guild for this taiwanese shadow painting board?
There are /v/ guilds (which I think are mostly /tg/ guilds at this point).
>Can I make a catgirl and have a ship crewed entirely by bikini clad spacegirls?
Yes, but only on Red Team.

>>53101494

The Vaadwaur ships in general are fantastic.

>>53101591

>worth coming back

Maybe. A lot has changed. Leveling up is different, skills and traits are split between space and ground (finally!), there's been both a ground and space rebalance.

>guild

No idea.

>catgirl

Yeah. Caitians and Ferasans are a thing.

>ship crewed entirely by bikini clad spacegirls

Only the KDF has this power. Occasionally the Feds on Risa.

>>53101651
You can get sports bar and miniskirt.

>>53085980
>>53087025
>>53087143
>belated autism
Intrepid's given a secondary deflector as well and tricobalts as well as long range self-sufficient capability that'd make a connie blush.

Also my Nova daughterfu is too pure to be a spy shi, delet this now

>>53100328
>memento mori
mein negro

>>53102162
Nova is a dirty spy girl. She wants t be disrespected so good by your Romulan sensors

Jesus fucking Christ, did I just type that? Does that count as a fetish? Do I need Help? I feel like I need help.

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>>53102261
That's how it starts. Then, you post like this.

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>>53102261
Help is on the way, Anon.

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>>53102261
There's an entire industry making easy dosh pandering to it, you tell me if it's a problem.

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>>53102311
>chibi Abrams Enterprise
huuuurgh

>>53102261
>ywn watch helplessly as your nova is boarded and taken from you
>ywn be a romulan breaking in your new capture
>ywn grow to love and protect her over time and do everything you can to stop her being taken apart and reverse-engineered
why even live

>>53102489
It's chibi because it's a disgustingly exaggerated version of the real thing for shit-tier normies

>>53102311
>>53102353
>>53102510
Well, now I'm at least sure that that not my fetish. Thanks for helping me learn where my penis draws a line

>>53102162
>Defending the USS Warcrime

Lad...

>>53102995
>implying there can be war crimes when there hasn't been a war

Oh you stupid Bajoran . . .

>>53103019
>so long as there wasn't a recognised conflict, I can kill all the people I want.

Even the meme-iest of modern societies would have a hard time justifying that.

I get that you're riffing off of Duet and I love you for that, I just always felt that that specific argument was always just an attempt to troll Kira into acting brashly.

>>53102311
I'm now painfully aware to this genre of... whatever you deem fit to call it... exists and has some sort of fan base. The world seems somehow colder for that knowledge.

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>>53102261
>>53102311
>>53102353
>>53102821
>>53103104
reminder

>>53103104
I think you're right about the purpose of that line - i.e. to troll Kira - but I disagree with the rest. However, rather than drag down this thread with arguing about it, I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that. And I'll also say that even though I disagree I could be incredibly and utterly wrong and admit that the basis for my disagreement is not very strong and would not stand up to the rigors of a formal debate in the interest of being completely fair to you, an anon who loves me for riffing on Duet.

With that out of the way um . . .

How does /STG/ feel about the MACOs?

>>53103278
The older series' lack of proper security forces was really obvious after the MACOs appeared on ENT. I liked them.

>>53103412
Yeah. MACOs didn't have a MASSIVELY better success rate than previous series' security mooks, but they actually operated like operators and when they DID do well it involved flashbanging fools and beating the everloving fuck out of aliens with taser tonfas.

>>53103412
Older series had plenty of security - seemed like half the ship sometimes. It was the severe lack of proper soldiers/marines that bugged me. It's one thing if you're like Klingons where everyone is a warrior, but quite another to send the cops to take out pirates or even proper soldiers. And that's the best-case scenario - Janeway was a scientist sent out on combat patrols, and the Hero of Seltic III is a mechanic.

>>53103412
>>53103563
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-_lrf44Gw0

>>53103712
Holy shit, I never properly watched this ep - recognised the clip they used in In A Mirror, Darkly, though. Still, by normal Trek combat standards, this is pure /k/ommando porn

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>>53103712
>those two guys who try to run only to get clobbered by waiting MACOs

>>53103278
>>53103712
>>53103793
So, /stg/, how would the Dominion War have gone if it was exactly the same but the Jem'Hadar were as operator as they were supposed to be?

>>53104194
The ground war would've been worse. Things like the Siege of AR-558 probably would never have happened - Starfleet is barely able to hold its own against zerg-tier Jem'Hadar but if you increase their power-level to wank pheasant maxium operator tier then there's no way the Dominion isn't going through everyone like an elephant through wet rice paper.

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>>53103205
>that signature
Cheeky.

>>53104194

I don't think the Jem'hadar were ever supposed to be operator.
Massively strong, tough, endurance like an ox, yes, but remember that most of them were approximately 2-5 years old, and literally kamikaze - and extremely replaceable. They succeed through those traits, not because they're tactical operators who could out-operate proper special forces.

Imagine how the Dominion War would have gone if the Federation had NOT forgotten how to operator.

>>53104776
The destruction of the Odyssey would have prompted a Genesis strike on the Great Link.

>>53105634
I think you've confused the Federation with the Mirrorverse counterparts there.

"Not forgetting how to operator" does not mean "deploys a genocidal weapon that smells of Pine-Sol at moderate provocoation."

>>53105664
Cultures that remember how to operator typically have a "destroy our flagship and you're gonna die" policy. The US in particular will glass your capital city if you sink a CVN as a matter of standing policy, and the Federation that remembers how to operator is basically the US in Space.

>>53105715
>The US in particular will glass your capital city if you sink a CVN as a matter of standing policy

Citation needed. I mean, I fucking believe it, but source plz?

>>53106661
That's a bit of an exaggeration, however standing US policy is to treat the sinking of one of our supercarriers as the equivalent of a WMD strike against a city in the US, as a result of both:

1) How important supercarriers are to standing US military doctrine (the "two-and-a-half war" policy); and

2) Sinking one would require a stupendous amount of force to begin with, in order to get past a carrier's defenses (including all the ships that surround the carrier - carriers don't operate alone)

I can't find an official citation, but it does seem to be the general belief in the Internet, which must have come from somewhere.

>>53103278

They're an okay addition to the franchise, even though it seems silly that the Federation just abandons the concept of dedicated marines for 200 years.

ENT has its problems, but I don't think the MACOs are one of them.

My fleet in STO is effectively a MACO inspired fleet.

>>53099261
Kinda surprised nobody mocked/responded to this one.

>>53106948
Marines are generally speaking, considered too aggressive for Starfleet. Starfleet, as Gene Roddenberry was quick to point out, Is Not A Military. They're an exploration organization. The most militant and well-armed exploratory organization around, but Not A Military. Nope! Not A Military, No Sir.

And for the most part, it's worked out for them, since ground warfare tends not to be a huge deal for them. I mean, really, if you have the high ground, you've won the ground war. Klinks/Rommies/Dommies can just bombard your centers of resistance, the Feddies will just haul a gigantic brick of transporters and prison cells into orbit, surgically cut out any shields/transporter disruptors, and beam all your occupation forces into the Flying Brig.

As for boarding, well... Generally speaking, Starfleet doesn't do a lot of hostile away boarding, and they rely on decent general training for the crew and ridiculous homefield advantage to repel hostile boarders.

When pressed, though, they can get their shit together. Remember Elite Force/EF 2? (It's so annoying they forced Alex to be male in EF2, I totally wanted Alexandra to get her lezzybean on.) Voyager basically said "Okay, yes, personal-scale combat experts are a thing we need, Mr. Tuvok, make it happen." And then Jean-Luc co-opted them for post-Dominion-War-Era bullshennanigannery.

any comfy tng/ds9/voy episodes to watch right now?

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>>53107347
>VOY
"Living Witness" is my go-to for comfy on that show. Doesn't hurt that the main crew are barely in it, and that Chuckles gets a chance to shine.
>DS9
"Trials and Tribbleations"
"In the Cards"
>TNG
"Data's Day"
"Lower Decks"

>>53107490
thanks anon :)

>>53086730
You don't need to mine the entire area around the wormhole. Just enough to force ships into a narrow corridor, where they are at a significant tactical disadvantage. This would still allow passage when needed.

>>53108200
But that would make sense, anon. Why would Starfleet make sense ever?

hey /stg/ anons, tell us which ship and mission you'd like to perform if you were a starfleet captain


I personally would like to dick around in semi-deep space on a Prometheus class

>>53108267
Prometheus would probably be my choice until I remember that the entire ship is equipped with holoprojectors on every deck. Would be a hell of a setting for a horror game.

Get rid of the holoprojectors and that'd be my choice though, especially taking advantage of ship separation for things like exploration missions.

>>53108388
I think the holoprojectors on the prometheus are only for medical/tactical usage, seeing that the ship was designed for deep space tactical missions, that's why it's so damn fast too

>>53108418
What it was intended for is irrelevant. Too many holodeck episodes for things to not go horribly wrong.

>>53108388
>On a Prometheus
>Ship passes through a strange nebula
>Holoprojectors go wonky
>The entire cast of "Manos and the Hands of Fate" are in my quarters and won't fucking leave
>Every time we try to reset the projectors, another Ferrengi from "Ferrenginar Love Slave Economic Simulator" manifests on the bridge.

>starfleet develops cloaking technology
>a lot of high rank officers get fucked by court martial

>later starfleet does it again, this time for the defiant
>no one bats an eye

why?

>>53108593
The Defiant's cloak was provided by the Romulans as part of a collaboration to spy on the Dominion

>>53108593
It wasn't a Starfleet cloaking device, it was a Romulan cloaking device installed by the Romulans. The Defiant originally came with a Romulan bridge officer to work it but the writers forgot about her within a few episodes and stopped calling the actress for work.

>>53108642
>>53108647
hm, makes sense

>The Defiant originally came with a Romulan bridge officer
really bad that they forgot, this would've made some interesting histories

I wonder what happened with starfleets transphasic cloak technology, I hope some smartass from section 31 got it instead of it getting destroyed

>>53108672
In sto, you can get that transphasic cloaking device on Intel Assault cruiser (T6) and if you have that, the Riker maneuver console from T5 assault cruiser and the console from T6 Command assault cruiser, you get a battle cloaking device out of them.

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Imagine strolling around the delta quadrant with one of these

http://memory-gamma.wikia.com/wiki/Invincible_class
>1650 meters
>5000 people crew
>can carry 20 squadrons of 9 fighers each
>has 4 (four) defiant class starships mounted on the hull, to serve as escorts when required
>armed with state of the art transphasic torpedoes
>thirty (30) burst-fire torpedo launchers
>32 phaser banks

>>53108950
What in satan's puckered left tit is memory gamma?

>>53108965
memory gamma is to memory beta what memory beta is to memory alpha basically

>>53108200

You don't need to mine anything at all cause the Prophets got your back.
It's why there were no Gamma reinforcements even after they cleared the minefield and never bothered with a new one.

>>53108965
Fanfiction.

>>53108990
>>53109010
I guess that makes sense.

>>53109021
there exists a memory delta, but it's an unfinished failed project

>>53109035
What was that intended to be? What could possibly fall outside the umbrella of fanfiction?

>>53109066
>"Memory Delta is a collaborative project to create the most accurate and accessible catalog for collectible merchandise related to the Star Trek franchise. Memory Delta started in June 2010, and currently consists of 12 articles."

>http://memory-delta.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Main

>>53108267
Up until this thread I would have said a Luna class generally doing deep space exploration and screwing with Romulans whenever the opportunity presents itself.

But now I want a Nova class masquerading as a survey ship but actually painting Quo'nos with a high intensity sensor sweep.

>>53109536
but the klingons are federation allies, and section 31 is already spying on quo'nos for starfleet from its own surface

>>53109562
I was thinkng a few years on when relations have soured, but the location of the surveillance is less important to me than the mission profile

>>53110069
Why not have one of each messing with the Romulans, a Luna and a Nova?
Task Force Akko

What would you guys think about a main ST series centred around a non Federation crew and ship? Like a Keldon Class Cardassian ship or a Klingon Bird Of Prey?

>>53111147
I think I'd like to fucking post a picture, anon, and it keeps spamming me with connection error when I try.

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>>53108267
>hey /stg/ anons, tell us which ship and mission you'd like to perform if you were a starfleet captain

A ship's a ship!

That having been said...

This ship, anon.
> An Excelsior class?
>> No, Anon.
>>> THE USS Excelsior, NCC-2000. Hikaru Sulu's old ship.

This ship is older than most Mirandas in the fleet. She's outlived five or six Enterprises, depending on when we're setting this.
If there is any truth to the malarky that a ship can gain some vital, unquantifiable sense of essence, of being more than the sum of its parts, through age and experience, Excelsior is unquestionably the ship that would have that essence. Well over a century of refits and upgrades will have kept Excelsior in sufficient fighting trim that she's the kind of ship that Jean-Luc called to Warp 9.9 in to save HIS ass from time to time, and the ship will have a very veteran crew.

Just don't pay attention to any of the rumors that Sulu's ashes are somewhere on the ship. Even if they're TRUE, Hikaru Sulu's ghost could only be a good thing to have around.

> Get boarded by ayylamo ghosts.
>> You're on my ship. That seems to be a problem. En guarde!
>>> Crewman Newbie McEnsignFace spills his Raktajino watching three ayylamo ghosts get chased down the hallway by the rapier-wielding ghost of Admiral Hikaru Sulu.
>>>> Captain McNoFucksToGive drinks his own Raktajino. "Hrm, Ark Royal must in the sector. Contact SFC and see if there's literally anything they need us to do a minimum of thirty light-years away. Then clean that up."

Think about all the things that ship HAS done, all the treaties that have been signed on her decks, all the gaseous anomalies cataloged, all the conflicts fought in, all the dramatic rescues pulled off. Sure, she's not the largest ship around anymore, nor the most well-armed, but Starfleet wouldn't let NCC-2000 go anywhere without the very latest tech available under her hull plates. Yeah, I'd take that ship.

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>>53111156
Works for me friendo

>>53111197
I think it was shitting its pants because I had a Youtubes link AND an image in the same text. Anyway, I posted what I wanted to post up here.

>>53111164

Silly 4chan.

>>53111164
Didn't the Excelsior get decommissioned eventually? Of course there were other Excelsior class ships around in TNG era, but the original prototype too?

>>53111164
and where are you getting those posters/cards of the ships?

>>53111316
You can get them online fairly easily. Just google a ship class and it should be one of the first image results.

>>53111164
>not the best armed
Pakled pls. A refit Excelsior, the Lakota, nearly beat the Defiant even WITH DS9 plot armor. It will lay the smack down on anything less than a Dominion mega-battlecruiser, a Voth city ship, or a Borg cube, and even the Cube is possible with a transphasic torpedo or two. From day one it was designed for transwarp, so a QSD upgrade is possible as well. The only things it can't do are things that require the towing power or internal volume of a Galaxy, or the space magic of a secondary deflector, or the compactness of a Defiant, or planetary landings... and for those latter two it can carry Danube, Flyer, or Gryphon class runabouts.

>>53111765
thanks

>>53111164
What ever happened to the Enterprise-B

>>53113047
decommissioned or destroyed in the field, just like all the other ones that aren't active

>>53098026
>Several people have written lists of things Skippy Can't Do aboard the Starship Enterprise

http://babylon5techmanual.yuku.com/topic/1451/400-things-Skippy-is-forbidden-to-do-aboard-the-Enterprise#.WQ9lFx1JlFQ

>>53113138
Right, but is there anything definitive on it?

>>53113193
Generations is the only alpha-canon appearance of the Ent-B.

>>53113193
memory alpha says that it's active, but it's hard to believe that two enterprises could've existed at the same time while commissioned

they probably use it for backyard tests of excelsior refits

>>53113208
Any good beta-canon appearances?

>>53113290
>beta-canon
>good]

>>53113290
according to it, it was lost/destroyed in deep space after the crew got an unknown infection in 2328

>>53113379
Was it a bad case of mondays?

>>53113457
It doesn't say, but they always manage to fuck the previous enterprise shortly before commissioning the next one on the line

>>53113047
>>53113138
>>53113193
>>53113208
>>53113288
>>53113290
>>53113379
>>53113457
>>53113507
There's some theories that the Lakota is the Enterprise B recommissioned after some time in mothballs. I like it as a concept.

>>53114026
That's a stupid idea. They're not going to rename a ship as iconic as the Enterprise, regardless of which letter it was or whether there's an existing one flying around.

>>53114086
It's just a hull. And given how little we hear about the B, it might be fair to say that she didn't have a great run.

>>53114086
Why not? She's probably been out of service for technical reasons. Once they started up-gunning the fleet, bringing old retired Excelsiors out of mothballs would have been top of their priorities.

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>>53108267

I want a 5 year mission with an Excelsior.

>>53108388
>First contact day senior staff holoprank! (GONE WRONG) (GONE SEXUAL)

>>53108950
>fanwank mary sue starship
Please fuck off.

>>53082383
>>53082955
Miranda were the 'workhorse' of the Federation fleet for a long-ass time, with the Excelsior class having about the same rough lifespan, as both are still around by the time of the TNG movies era (as one or more appeared at the end of Voyager alongside newer ships like Defiant class).

The Miranda class (and variant), especially, deserve respect because it has stuck around as the general-purpose lighter cruiser of the Federation for such a long time, to the point that even when they had much more specialized ships, they kept the Miranda active in the fleet. Given how many ship classes we see the Federation have, it's clear they love to constantly churn out newer type of ships. And yet....we still see Miranda class ships around. They could have dry docked or even dismantled/recycled these ships and replaced them in various roles by technically better ships (like Defiant class to patrol and fight or Intrepid for exploration) but they DIDN'T. That's how solid the design was.

>the Dominion War ended in 2375
>the Federation had generally known that a Dominion invasion was inevitable since '71
>it took somewhere between 1-3 years to construct the Galaxy-class USS Enterprise
>Starfleet used at least ten Galaxy-class starships as front line capital ships during the Dominion war; this is the number simultaniously visible on screen in "Sacrifice of Angels"
>six Galaxy-class starships were planned for the original run, with an additional six spaceframes constructed and laid up for later completion, for a total of twelve ready Galaxy spaceframes
>the destruction of the Enterprise, the Yamato and the Odyssey bring this number to nine, thus at least one of the Galaxies seen in "Sacrifice of Angels" must have been laid down and built after contact with the Dominion

If Starfleet was crash-building Galaxies to serve as warships, why were they building complete saucer-stardrive pairs? Why not just build stardrives?

>>53118751
Because you can load the saucer up with a metric assload of phaser arrays. The Galaxy is easily the biggest "get fucked" machine in Starfleet once you get rid of the civilian facilities and use that giant-ass warp core to power more beamspam.

>>53093055
Of course there was. You can't have a hero ship showing up doing non-hero things. Not counting the redressed Enterprise models from TOS, we never see another Connie ever again, remember.

>>53118751
It took 20 years for the Ent-D to leave the drydock, what are you talking about?

>>53118814
The Galaxy-class development process started in the 2350s, which means it took at most 13 years since the Enterprise was launched in 2363, and that included the entirety of the design phase. We don't know when exactly the Enterprise started being physically constructed, but it wouldn't have taken that long once the design process was done, especially in a war when ship building facilities would be on maximum efficiency.

>>53118751

Because the saucer section has additional phasers, a larger, more robust shuttle bay, more sensors, and the interior is modular, meaning more deuterium fuel tanks and reactors for additional power and longer missions without the need to refuel (or it can refuel smaller ships like the Excelsiors and Mirandas). Additionally, with the saucer section, her subspace profile is better, allowing her to reach a higher warp factor with it, than without.

>>53108950
Looks and sounds a lot like the super duper flagship I built out of legos and constantly added flashy new "upgrades" to when I was twelve.

The real irony is that my pre-teen fanwank megaship capped out at about a third of that monstrosity's weapon loadout, nevermind the Defiant launchers.

>>53118803
>>53118902
This is also why the Galaxy-X dreadnought's spinal cannon can cut a Negh'var IN FUCKING HALF with ONE SALVO.

>>53118810
Not entirely true. We see at least one Connie in the fleet scenes for DS9. They were basically recommissioning anything that they could throughout the war, as a means of offsetting their early losses.

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>>53118810
>we never see any Connies except the Enterprise, unless you count the other Connies we see in TOS
Are you retarded?

>>53119421
Not that guy but
>Not counting the redressed Enterprise models from TOS
>posts reused Enterprise in TOS
>not even posting the enhanced editions where they re-labelled the ship model so it really is just re-used Enterprise footage

I think you should be asking yourself that question.

>>53119496
So is anon's contention literally that Paramount never built more Connie models than the Enterprise?

Because, I mean...that's true, but I'm not sure why it matters.

>>53118751
tfw the saucer section was actually one fuckhuge torpedo

>>53120445
It was on the Odyssey.

>>53101494
>the engine trails off it.
Those are, by far, the best part of it; and when I say that, know that I ADORE the Manasa's overall look, and consider it a decent escort.

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It's late, I'm tired AF, but here. Have a nice pic.

I wrote a story to go with this at one point, and I put it in one of the threads back when Space Suit Dave was on fire, but though I thought I had had those saved to suptg, I can't find them anymore.

I guess the haters mass-downvoted it off the archive. Oh well. Maybe tomorrow I'll recreate that story, this time in a GDoc so it can't be lost... Or perhaps I'll do it now because I'm a moron. Either way.

>>53123768
You sure it's deleted? It should all be there somewhere on 4plebs. Or am I completely misunderstanding that archive?

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>>53124839
Oh, shit son, that's saved me soooo much work!
I had never even HEARD of 4plebs before. Thank you.

Here, have some hostile ayylamo getting a VERY old-school "Welcome to Earf!"

why aren't all the star trek movies available on netflix

reee

>>53125957
Depends which Netflix you have. My country's one has all the TNGs, the Nu-Trek, TFF and WoK. I hear some of the other European ones have the lot.

For you though, I suggest gomovies.to

They have, at last check, all the Trek films, and in decent quality (720p-480p). Would recommend using Adblock to begin with but I've never run into serious issues with the site.

>>53126042
Thank fuck for the Tongans, I guess.

>>53119190
Holy shit, I thought it just punched a sizable hole in them. Metal as fuck nevertheless, but still not as impressive.

>>53127084
Nope, completely cut in half, and then flew through the gap between halves.

>>53127327
It punches holes through it till it explodes, then flies through the resulting fireball


https://youtu.be/P0R0mdEP5fc

>>53111164
>Shirtless ghost of Sulu running up and down the corridors at all hours of the night, fencing and shouting 'have at you!'s and the like.

I cannot stop smiling at this thought. It's even better than the episode it originates from.

>>53125303
Reminder that the guy on the right in that image is Someweebnameato Sulu, ancient ancestor of the Fencin' Fleet Admiral.

Which is now his canon nickname everyone calls him. Stormin' Norman be damned.

>>53122287
Other way round

>>53122737
It's a shame they break so frequently

>>53127797
>tfw I was raised on VOY
>I've come to realise that the writing in literally every other series (apart from early ENT) is far superior
>but by god did it have good battle scenes
Seriously - both the characters and actors in this clip are far superior, but everything about it seems to fall flat. How come the worst series had the best combat? It can't ALL be down to Mulgrew's and Russ's god tier deliveries, right?

>>53128754
Is that a Sovereign? Cool shot.

>>53133624
Voyager also had a much better engine room than TNG - cooler looking, easier to film in, and much better lit. That's only to be expected though since it's a redress of the Enterprise-A engine room set.

>>53134079
Ent-A engine room was a redress of the Ent-D though.

>>53134182
Maybe I was thinking of TMP. It was one of the TOS movie engine rooms.

>>53134182

The TNG engineering room IS a redress of the TMP one, and the Ent-A one is a redress of that, which is reused again in VOY.

The Ent-A bridge is the TNG battle bridge and the Stargazer's bridge.

>http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/reused_ship_interiors.htm

>>53134079
>>53134243
You sure it was VOY? EAS says TMP engineering was redressed for TNG.
That being said, VOY had the best set out of the lot - for a start, the open space was both great for filming and made it feel like more than a just a room for the warp core. Hell,
how come everyone else got flashing lights when Voyager got a proper warp core?

>>53134558
>Hell,how come everyone else got flashing lights when Voyager got a proper warp core?
Because Voyager was filmed like 8 years after the TNG set was constructed?

>>53134729
>defiant warp core was shittier than ENT-D one
>Ent-E engineering set was literally just the testing chamber from Half-Life with the D's warp core
>ENT's warp core was a fucking gas tanker but it's still the only one that looks like a real engine room

>>53134729

This is partly the reason it has better battle sequences as well. Turns out you can have longer, more detailed fights when digital effects are coming down in price, but increasing in quality.

>>53133952
Thanks, it's a rear-shot of a Nova. I think the planet in question is in the Laurentia system.

>>53134865
I like the Defiant engineering room. It seems like it's more haphazard, as if the warp-core and all her various conduits have been crammed into too small a space. It gels with the overall concept that the Defiant was crazy overpowered and essentially a work in progress.

>>53134550
I always preferred the D's battle-bridge. I get why they didn't use it more often, but some small part of me wishes it had been the primary bridge.

>>53137777

I'm just glad they didn't use the rec room bridge from the TNG concept art. So very glad we dodged that particular bullet.

I'd post it, but apparently I didn't save them.

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>>53138094
Not gonna lie, if STO is going insist on massive retard bridge sizes then they may as well go over-the-top like this.

>>53138209
Actually, I'd kind of like the rec-room design if that position was behind the tactical rail, like where the conference room would be, and it was the coordination section for the several dozen fighters your Galaxy was shitting out.

>>53138209
It's not the WORST possible design, honestly. I mean, if you're expecting to regularly host guests or observers on the bridge, then the side lounges, at least, would be decent places for them to be out of the way when and if the bridge crew need to go to work.

Also, IIRC, one of the STO bridges several years ago had little lounge areas off to the side like that. I know I took screenies and posted them, but now I can't find 'em on the STO wiki after a very brief search. I may look later, right now I'm GMing a sologame of PTU.

>>53138764
Those aren't lounges, they're the extra stations from Generations.

>>53138836
No, I know that, about the Galaxy bridges, but I'm quite... I feel fairly confident that, on SOME bridge, there were little comfy areas to the side of the viewscreen. I recall perching my Captain upon one of them, sitting down and just gazing back, basking in the glory of my boffs at their stations.

>>53138334
That would also be a neat callback to the rear-of-bridge area on the NX-01.

i wonder how ds9 would have turned out if rodenberry was alive to have his fingers in it

>>53141067

Lwaxana episodes every season.

>>53141067

Well, for one, we never would have gotten such wonderful character pieces like "Duet", "Inter Arma", or "It's a FAAAKE!"

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>>53141067
There's not enough of this shit in all of Starfleet to cope with that possibility, anon.

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>>53141067
Don't even joke about that Anon

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So, Main series based on the POV of a Cardassian ship. Yay or Nay?

>>53141067
>no interpersonal conflicts
>Starfleet can do no wrong
>the Ferengi should be taken seriously
>no long arcs

Basically unrecogniseable

>>53142886
I think it'd be great, but I don't see it happening.

The Cardassians are one of the best fleshed out races in all of Trek, alongside the Klingons. There's a rich vein of material that can be built upon. But the issue with translating that into a relatable TV show is that there is no common touchstone between Cardassians and Humans. Hell you'd have an easier time doing a Klingon show if only because of their obsession with Shakespierre.

So a show like that would probably only draw in pre-existing Trek fans, and really only the smaller subset of DS9 fans. And that's unlikely to make a profitable show.

>>53141067
What if he had been around and handling Voyager?

>>53143844
It would have been more or less the same but with more of a stepford wives vibe played completely straight.

>>53143844
Different and the same. I figure a lot of the same actual episodes wouldn't have been made, but similar concepts would have been thrown out there.

For instance, Equinox is too ambiguous. Yeah, Ransom is doing fucked up shit, but he's willing to face the music to get his crew home. And Janeway's response is way out of line. That's way too vague and open to interpretation for a Roddenberry script.

Instead you'd have a Garth D'Izar -esque megalomaniac ruling over a stolen alien ship with a few of his crew, planning to proclaim himself emperor of Earth upon his return.

>>53142886
Animated or live action? If the latter, not even once. The budget would go into makeup and costume, and we'd be lucky to get G-Saviour tier digital effects.

>>53138209
Honestly that would have just been funny to see on screen.

>>53145792
Lets say that makeup and special effects are all on a unlimited budget. What would the crew/stories be like is mainly what i'm asking.

>>53146413
Vorta would had had a persian rug on top of it instead of a cheap one.

>>53146740
>Vorta are have no aesthetic sense but wish they did
>He stands in the hallway asking every Cardassian that walks past if the Persian rug looks good.

>>53146922

I can see this as a running gag, where the Cardassians just stop using that hallway so they don't have to pretend to like the pieces of art the Vorta keeps putting up.

"The first week it was some kind of rug. The second week it was a statue. The third week it was clearly pornography, and the Gul had to step in and ask the Vorta not to put stuff up like that. Bad for discipline, but good for morale. This week the Vorta's got something from the Federation. It's just a red and white striped cylinder. I don't get it. The Vorta doesn't get it. The Jem'hadar just mutter under their breath and look more upset than usual."

>>53147071

Are we assuming this would be set during the Dominion war? I think Post-war would have more story potential.

>>53147150
If it's during the war, we can have scenes with Federation captives being taken "on a tour of the gallery", with the Cadassian officers getting this look of dread every time it's brought up.

>>53146413
Storywise, I'd focus on the internal turmoil of the Cardassian Union, contrasted against something else much more important happening in the background.

Like maybe a big war between the Federation and another power. It doesn't play into the actual story to begin with. It's just brought up from time to time. But perhaps it becomes a bigger part of the story as the conflict spreads.

Meanwhile the crew have to deal with a fundamentally broken Cardassian Union. The Military and Government are so riddled with militant factions that pn a day-to-day basis you can't really be sure who's on "your side". The crew's primary mission would start off as something like "find and capture the leader of the True Way" but then escalate into "save the Cardassian Union" as they uncover a bunch of dodgy conspiracy-tier shit that's been happening.

>>53147208

>Federation captives being taken "on a tour of the gallery"

And now humans, I present you with a simple choice. Either die in the vacuum of space or tell me what you thought of my Risian sculpture collection!

>>53147208

Is subjecting people to vorta art gallery a war crime?

File: poetry.png (743KB, 960x600px) Image search: [Google]

743KB, 960x600px

>>53147436
It's an excellent representation of the humanity- (Vortanity!) er right, Vortanity of your soul?

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