Aboleths vs Illithids vs Beholders in a great three way war, who wins?

5e:
Aboleths.
They need to be killed in the elemental plane of water to actually die.
Illithids could "easily" beat the beholders, who wouldn't even work together.

I get the idea illithids have the widest influence, so probably them.

>>53047771
3.PF:
Aboleths.
They have all the memories of all their ancestors, and anyone they mind control, meaning they should all be stupidly powerful wizards, which are quite broken here. Additionally, their Dominate Person SLAs along with their illusions make them superb at subverting entire nations to their cause in a way the other two don't really do.

>>53047771
Beholders. Anti-Magic is a bitch. If you could get them to actually work together and fight, planets would disappear over the course of a month as at will disintegrates make dust out of all rock.

The only thing that stops beholders from doing whatever they want, is themselves.

>>53048366
>If you could get beholders to work together, they would win
Yeah, and if I could get fire to be cold, I'd save on air conditioning.

>>53048366
In 2e, anti-magic has no effect on psionics

>>53047771
Beholders lose regardless, they can't work together and will cause as many casualties amongst themselves as the others. The only possible way for them to win is for the other two to annihilate each other or nearly do so, and neither are stupid enough to do so.
So instead it's a war between mindtaking horrors from forever ago and braineating horrors from the future, with a few wildcards to make it more interesting.
Aboleths win, because there was no mindflayer empire when the mindflayers originally came to be, but the mindflayers will in the future triumph when they come to be originally. Everything is as it should be, and the future refused to change.

Aboleth because they're the least boring.

>>53047771

Aboleths or Illithids.
I want to say Illithids because I know they're capable of using weapons and tools as well as their own natural abilities and I'd imagine that would give them an enormous, literal, edge over Aboleths who just psychic or enslave all their problems.

Beholders won't cooperate and will most likely kill themselves off before they have a chance to fight any of the other monsters.

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>>53047771
Depends on the edition but I'll use 2e for purpose of analysis.

Aboleth
>very rare
>no. appearing 1-4
>psionic
>freaky slime powers
>basically stuck in water and watery caves

Beholders
>rare
>no. appearing: 1
>Powerful anti-magic (which doesn't stop psionics in 2e)
>often spacefaring
>literally /pol/: the monster, can barely talk to each other without trying to start a mini-genocide on each other

Illithid
>rare
>no. appearing: 1-4
>psionics
>spacefaring

Illithids have a larger population and more technology than Aboleths or Beholders so they'd probably win it all.

>>53048413
Funny. No psionics that I know of in 2e stop 10 different magical attacks either. I'd bet on the at will disintegrate and better saves.

Nice try though. That selective edition pick wasn't bad. Just childishly easy to get around.

>>53048413
Oh and I forgot, so I should add this. Remember, Psionics is optional in 2e. By default, all their abilities are MAGIC. Therefore, anti-magic still wins.

>>53049244
*uses phobia amplification on u*
nothin personnel eye guy

Bullywugs. The inevitable victory of bullywugkind cannot be stopped.

>>53047771
Beholds only ally when mind controlled by a Hive Tyrant.
Even then, all they'll agree to do is kill rival Hive Tyrants.

Illithids spook Aboleths because time travel shenanigans.

>>53048410
Criminally underrated.

>>53049512
>Be Beholder
>Become undead, gain 1 CR

>Be Human Paladin
>Become undead, become CR 17 Death Knight and immortal until you rediscover the power of friendship

Why do Abberations even try?

>>53050118
>Be Illithid
>Become undead, become CR Illithilich, fuck anyone who thought using Int as a dumpstat was a good idea.

>>53050312
While CR Illithilich is menacing as fuck, it's actually CR 22

>>53050369

That's super menacing.

>>53047771
>Illithids

Wait, wait:

Are the Illithids being controlled/coralled by a Mega-Mind/Brain or are they in an independent group?

Because I think a group of independent, allied, Illithids would be more successful than one that was being basically class-struggle-enslaved by a giant immobile brain.

>>53047771
3 way wars don't exist

>>53050882
Illithids that aren't in constant mental contact with their Elder Brains develop crippling mental issues.
Also, while it is only one mind, it's not one giant brain. It's a pile of normal sized brains.

>>53049244
No but standing in the middle of the Beholder's own anti magic cone does. So all the Illithid has to do is stand front and centre and blow up the beholder's brain.

>>53049244

You know nothing of 2nd edition. Magic Res, of which illithids have a decent amount, annuls spell-likes such as eyeball rays.

In spelljammer, beholders had Beholder Queens who could make beholders work together cohesively. They also had navigators.

Navigators were an exception to the usual spelljamming rule. Navigators specified something like, "you need one navigator beholder for every [x] ship size. If you don't have the necessary number of navigators, the ship moves at speed 1."

There was no limit on that. No cap on the disparity.

Beholders can deorbit planets given time.

>>53051218
>who could make beholders work together cohesively.
c >>53049512


>There was no limit on that.
Fairly sure SR capped at 5 using Orbi.
>Beholders can deorbit planets given time.
And I'm absolutely certain an Orbus will die if left planetside.

>>53047771
>>53047771
Read the following to find out the strengths and weaknesses of each race.
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Dungeonomicon_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Life_Under_Ground#The_Aboleth:_Inheritance_of_the_Memory_Fish
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Dungeonomicon_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Life_Under_Ground#The_Illithid:_Slaves_of_the_Elder_Brain
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Dungeonomicon_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Life_Under_Ground#The_Eye_Tyrants:_Lingering_Hatred

Basically, the loser is the aggressor, the winner is the defender. Each of these races have incredible defensive magics that make survival easy, but make actual mobilization for war almost impossible. The Aboleth can't physically invade anything, the Illithid can't field a sizeable force without risking starvation, and the Beholders can't trust eachother long enough to make effective armies (plus they get hardcountered easily when out of the winding corridors of their home).
Plus, none of these races have any reason to go to war with eachother in the first place.

>>53047771

I'd imagine the Illithids?

They used to control a vast, multiplanetary and multidimensional empire, until the gith uprisings brought them down from within by taking advantage of how reliant they were on vast slave populations for slave labor and food.

So it was obviously flawed, but its still a much larger and more obvious level of cooperation and effective control than anything the other two have ever done. They are also psionic, so the Beholder's antimagic cone doesn't work on their powers.

I don't see much of a reason why the Illithids couldn't just mentally dominate the beholders and send them to die against the aboleths. Beholders make good weapons against aboleths, since the real danger are the abolteh mages and while the innate psychic abilities of the aboleths cant be Coned out, the wizards can be strongly neutralized, so all you are dealing with is illusions now.

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>>53051452
>Frank and K

Into the trash.

>>53051460
>until the gith uprisings brought them down
The gith uprising was a speed bump, the real setback was deciding to get rid of light by blowing up the suns they controlled.

>>53051545

...the very fact that the Illithid can blow up suns sort of makes it feel like they can win this fight by default.

>>53051541
Tome Material has pretty meh mechanics, I'll give you that, but the fluff is top tier.

>>53051452
>linking some rando's headcanon like it's relevant to any discussion

Okay, my headcanon is illithids are actually semi-divine psionic emanation of Ilsenine and so always win even if they lose.

>>53051653
They don't have the multiplanetary resources to pull that off anymore.

>>53051715
Yeah, but that headcanon sucks and is comletely baseless, while the headcanon I posted doesn't suck and has some basis.

>>53051545
>The gith uprising was a speed bump, the real setback was deciding to get rid of light by blowing up the suns they controlled.

That's the most retarded misuse of resources and power I've ever read.

How can you attempt to write an intelligent species that's smart enough to blow up the sun, but dumb enough to not realize that it gives off all the energy a planet relies on?

What the fuck was the rest of their plan? Freeze to death?

>>53051848
>What the fuck was the rest of their plan
Planeshift to other material planes to get their slaves.

>>53051873
>>53051848
Remember that time when they built a giant wormhole portal thing that was going to switch the entirety of the current universe with a potential alternate timeline where they won forever?

>>53051787
t. Frank and K

>>53047771
Only the base monsters, or are we taking elder brains, ulitharids, hive tyrants, overseers, scum and all other assorted variations and slaves of all three races?

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>>53047771
My Dick

>>53051928
>Remember that time when they built a giant wormhole portal thing that was going to switch the entirety of the current universe with a potential alternate timeline where they won forever?

Wouldn't it make more sense for them to use that wormhole portal to just... Immigrate to the alternate timeline where they won forever?

>>53047771
>>53047814
Since when are Aboleths demon elementals of the elemental plane of water?

>>53052331
Since 5e, apparantly.

Also, Succubi are now NE

>>53052346
>Also, Succubi are now NE
So, who wants to take bets on how long it'll take for Succubi to become the True Neutral unbiased sluts of the multiverse?

>>53049509
WASTRI

>>53052375
I think they made them NE because they wanted all the Tanari to be weird tentacled obviously-chaotic outsiders, and that there isn't much chaotic about beautiful women with bat wings.

I don't blame them for changing it, but it's still stupid.

>>53052375
>the True Neutral unbiased sluts of the multiverse
Those are humans, anon.

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>>53052375
>>53052427 (check the pic)
They are a weird fiend, they work for demons and devils.

>>53052280
Because they won't win that way, they'll be LOSERS who ran away.

>>53052346
What's the sourcebook on that?

>>53052375
So Succubi can be Clerics of neutral gods?

>>53052509
>What's the sourcebook on that?
Monster Manual. Succubi and Incubi are now Neutral Evil natives to the Grey Wastes of Hades.

>>53052526
>he Grey Wastes of Hades.

So is it the grey wastes because it's full of stanky interdimensional cum collected by all these 'cubi ?

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>>53052509
Yes.
Also, they are also male.

>>53047771
First off, getting beholders to work together is like herding cats. Secondly, Illithids just have too many weaknesses, particularly in the logistics department, that could be exploited by their enemies. Particularly that they need intelligent creatures not just for food, but for labor and reproduction. They work best with the element of surprise and from a distance. Also, Psionics have no effect on the undead, so any aboleth willing to get creative could have a field day with that.

Finally, am I the only one who got to the three way part and gagged a bit? I know it's followed up with "war", but my inner twelve-year old is strong tonight.

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>>53052572
It might have more to do with all the gray hues and pale lights thanks to the river of Styx.

>>53052611
>psionics
I'm sure they do work now.

>>53052584
>Also, they are also male.

We've been over this a couple of times, but the position of "Succubi" isn't strictly female:

Succubi is latin for, "to lie underneath", while incubi is latin for, "to lie upon." It's the literal demon-latin equivalent of the now modern gay-slang of, "Top or Bottom".

A Succubi can be male or female, the only important aspect is that they receive the NUT.
An Incubi can be male(?) or female, the only important aspect is that they give the NUT....So I guess maybe futa/hermaphrodite or female- depending on how you feel about "shemales" or whatever the pc term is (apologies, no bully intended).

>>53052613
>It might have more to do with all the gray hues and pale lights thanks to the river of Styx.

So what you're saying is the cum flows through the river of styx.

>>53052671
Now they only have two "true forms" an incubus and a succubus, but can switch as will, but grow accustomed to one or the other.

>>53047771
Do Beholders get Beholder mages? If so, they win.

>>53051218
Beholders existed as essentially different clades. Each clade appears identical, and the Beholder Queens resembled their clade but their had no stalks, but eyes fit into the ball body. They were the focus of all the other beholders. The Orbi, which are a mutant kind of beholder that allows for spelljamming capability, is an exception to the rule as they all look identical, being pale with eye stalks but no other eyes except the big center one that appears blind.

Beholder clades war against others to purify the Beholder race. Each clade has a unique ship design trademarked to them by the Arcane, who developed them to get in on their market, since they don't use spelljamming helms.

>>53052747
Only if the Illithids got Arcanists.

>>53052718
Well, according to some Christians your sperm has souls so.... kinda?

>>53052648
>Just checked

Huh, they aren't immune anymore. I guess it sort of makes sense, at least in regards to how many intelligent undead there are. Not sure about the fluff though. Even so, in older additions, it was just direct psychic attacks that wouldn't work. You could always levitate a boulder over them, and just drop it. Same issue I have with Dark type in Pokemon, some to think of it. Just levitate boulders onto them until they stop moving.

>>53047771
Beholders lose. They're powerful but they don't have mind control and can't go underwater, so the other two don't even have to engage with them directly.

Of the two, aboleths are more magically powerful and don't have the beholder's limitation of needing to prey on other species. They'll win the long game.

>>53052796
But that's a Rock Type attack.

>>53052526
>Succubi and Incubi are now Neutral Evil natives to the Grey Wastes of Hades.

Wrong.

They're Neutral Evil yes, but they don't hail from the Grey Waste. They're found throughout all the Lower Planes. There is no actual answer as to where they really came from, and they reproduce with their own kind.

>>53052999
I'd say they come from Carceri if anywhere.
What else does a prison need but hookers?

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>>53052584
>>53052671
>>53052723

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>>53054493

>>53052331
They're not demons or elementals, they just have made the elemental plane of water a home base and respawn point. It's part of the grand plan.
>>53047814
>They need to be killed in the elemental plane of water to actually die.
They still respawn even if you kill them there. There is no way to get rid of them forever. (save perhaps destroying the Elemental Plane of Water itself, but that would spell doom for the entire multiverse as you've just voided 1/4th of constituent reality) They've existed since before the reign of time and the gods couldn't get rid of them, why should you be able to?

Illithids since they already won in the future where they traveled back in time from.

>>53057151
The didn't bring their future shit back with them, though.