Infinity General: Martial Arts L2 Edition

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>>53028669 #
Vedic, Varuna and Invincible Army make me rock-hard. Core link Kamau and Zuyong are super sexy and the pure potential for bullshit in Vedic is staggering.

Tohaa sectorial is weird and not really needed, I feel. I mean, what's the point? Linkable camels? I can hardly contain myself. That said a Sygma sectorial that uses some Tohaa and Sygma troops mixed would be interesting.

>>53029423
>Operations Sub Section

I've been waiting for six fucking years.

>>53029564
Linkable AVA 5 Posthumans when?

Friendly reminder that the JSA will crush Yu Jing.

>>53029695
Tatenokai go to your local Imperial Service Judiciary Branch Office and turn yourself in, you are being dissentious and disrupting the harmony of Yu Jing.

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>>53029564
>mfw its just linkable Dakinis with a Deva or two as well as a unwieldy Asura Haris

>>53029816
Hey man even with a Deva, linkable Dakinis will be awesome. Mimetism link teams are already great, Dakinis will be the cheapest of the bunch. a Deva in it would just bump the price by 10~, and then you get a NWI model in the core.

>>53029970
I dont play Aleph, but this would convince me to collect

>>53029752
Suck my dick, Chinese dog.

>>53029278
In reference to the manga, I have heard complaints that Beba, Domvoi and Nakadai were really flat characters.

I disagree. They obviously weren't the main characters and they served their role in the story perfectly well before they died.

That purpose being to drive home the point that the people Emily is used to working with a violent psychopaths.

Why do people keep thinking Kazaks are going to get another sectorial?

They already have one, it's called Vanilla Ariadna.

>>53030788
but link teams

>>53030401
I think Beba, Domovoi, and Nakadai struck many if not most of us as disposable characters especially in the total deniability and black ops setting of Infinity Skirmishes.

I wish bolts looked terrible so people didn't feel like they need to defend them after they spent $35 on the current trap of an NCA starter.

>>53031473
I love the bolt profile. Piss off mate.

>>53031473

I just really like the way they look and their fluff.

>>53031485
Thank god profiles don't care what you think about them.

>>53031500
Good, now if only more people admitted that rather than arguing a moot point.

>>53031547
Yeah, but my multiple tournament wins do depend on them. From which I take a core link in at least 1 of my lists every time.

>>53031584
"My D10 rolled higher than a D12 multiple times, thus, a D10 must roll higher than a D12"

>>53031959
oh no, it's retarded

>>53032025
Oh no, it doesn't understand confirmation bias

>>53031473

What's it like to hate fun, anon?

>>53031959
Explain to me mathematically how they are shit then?

They are hard to dislodge from the centre of the board. Which is what I use them for. You're the kind of person who looks at a fusilier and a swiss guard and thinks 8 fusiliers is better than a swiss.

>>53032173
So here's a scenario, bolt/fusi link vs a supressive pheasent with red fury. With combis, bolts have a 3% higher to wound the pheasant and a 2% lower chance to take a wound. Within 8" and a bolt using a LSG that jumps to a 13% higher favoring bolts.

That's taking into account their higher BS and even using their very high BTS vs shock ammo. The numbers just don't add up.

Oh we're doing this again? Here is an okay review ive composited from two posts.

Bolts are not bad, but they are unfocused and lack the synergy that, for example, Bagh Maris have. Baghs play right into PanO strength of winning by shooting: MSV1, mimetism. Bolts have better BS, BTS, and abilities that are situationally very useful but also costly.

Versus the abundance of Shock weapons, Bolts tell it all to fuck right off and gimp Haqq/Tohaa Viral stuff. So being tanky fuckers is a plus. Which is good because their weaponry heavily skews towards closer ranges where they want to grab territory midfield and bunker down, this is where you have fun stuff like mines hanging around or jackasses with red furies to deal with. Use drop bears to bully infiltrators/minelayers, shotgun warbands and skirmishers, call people cunts.

Next thing that goes into this midfield play is veteran, so if your LT bites the dust you still have Bolts generating orders and can pull some clutch objective plays or whatever. Also makes them completely immune to E/M, which is nice. Bolts can wade through non-mono mines without giving a single fuck. I think a significant part part of their usefulness against Haqq is the ability to ignore all the fancy horseshit Ghazi can do. Also lets you go ham with an aggressive Lt as part of your overall plan.

So this sounds pretty cool but they are only situationally useful at best. Bioimmunity is useful versus 2 out of ~18 types of ammunition that can come their way. Best way not to die from crazy bullets or bukkake guns is to not get shot in the first place. Vet runs into this same exact problem, relying on things going wrong for you for it to be useful.

So tldr, Bolts are good where their BTS comes into play, holding middle board objectives, scenarios like biotechvore, and saving your ass from total LoL.

>>53032391
It's amazing how quickly "not bad, but unfocused" is converted to "absolute shit that you have to be retarded to use" in these threads.

>>53032442
That's pretty much any balance discussion on the internet.

>>53032391
Ariadna has a lot of shock ammo too.

That's why a lot of tournaments have two list options, and I usually only bring them in one of them. Because against Haqq, Tohaa and Ariadna, I will bring them 80% of the time.

>>53032391
>So being tanky fuckers is a plus
So I'm not being a hypocrite here, I ran math on bolt spitfire vs fusi HMG vs a lasiq viral sniper to see what the 6BTS really does:
Bolt: kills lasiq 49%, dies 10.4%
Fusi: kills lasiq 56.4%, dies 28%
So indeed, they are much tankier vs viral, but those numbers are a lot closer than most people would think.

>Bolts can wade through non-mono mines without giving a single fuck
Again, math here: move+dodge a mine, fusi vs bolt:
Fusi dies 39% of the time
Bolt dies 21% of the time
Without dodging it's 60% vs 35%
It's nearly double the chance for survival, but I'd hardly call a 79% "not giving a single fuck"

>>53032977
That's literally best case, against the rare ammo they beat.
And it's still not as good as Bagh Mari just having MSV1/mimetism and not getting shot in the first place.

>>53032391
>grab territory midfield and bunker down,

This is what I do with them every single goddamn time. It never fails to be a pain in the dick for my opponent, ever.

>>53033117
No, shit they're not as good as Bagh Mari. Who said they were? But last time I checked I can't get Bagh Mari in NCA. And last time I checked you can't bring a Swiss Guard or Auxillia in ACA.

>>53033178

Well, it's the same reason that Brigada aren't good in JCC because Riot Grrls exist.

>>53033117
Just for shits and giggles, the Bagh mari HMG vs lasiq viral sniper is:
Bagh mari kills lasiq 67.7%, dies 8.6%

But again, that is basically best case for a Bagh mari as well.

>>53033178
Well if you mean just in NCA, a Locust (marksman so rangebands can overlap) vs a Lasiq is 45% dead lasiq, 10% dead locust.
Mods >>> BTS+Bioimmunity in this game

>>53033178
It's worse than that though. They're worst against viral/shock weapons than ANYONE with BS12 and Mimetism.

That's pretty shit given how specialized the threat is they're 'protected' against.

It means that compared to other units you may face, their speciality is being slow, marginally better fusiliers that cost twice as much

>>53032977
Thanks for the math, that should definitely be a part of the composite post when Bolts come up.

>>53033167
Im glad Im not talking out of my ass when I thought these were decent posts.

>>53033244
Id rather take a MB in vanilla than a Riot desu. The only thing MB needs is a Haris option IMO. If I have points left over I evolve it to a Taskmaster.

>>53033274

Locusts are more expensive again, and yeah, they are heaps better than a singular bolt, but I've never used singular bolts, only core. Would 3 locusts be better than a bolt link? Not really, they don't have the ability to lock down the centrefield. I think they're great at killing shit on the sidelines.

>>53033370
I'm considering just writing an article I can copy-paste on math for Bolts and ORCs.

>>53033512
Obviously I don't intend to compare 1 bolt to 1 Locust. But compare say an entire fusilier link + locust being about the same points than a bolt link and you get the idea.

So aside from ORCs and Bolts, what are the other unplayably bad units in PanO? What about in other factions?

>>53033589
in pano:
>Bipandra
>Singh
>Teutons

Konstantinos and Hexas also seem really fucking expensive to me, but I'm not sure Id call them unplayable.

is it possible yet to field an army of adorable cute catboys?

>>53033589
Off the top of my head Zheyadin and Khawrij are pretty terrible. Generally a unit being renowned as terrible goes hand and hand with it being in a popular starter pack (bolts/orcs) or it having a beautiful model (nisse hacker).

>>53030788
Because I should be rewarded for taking all the best things in vanilla and not taking other scumraces' scumunits

>>53033549
Id be interested in that, but whats up with the ORC math? They're just generic HI.

>>53033589
Nomad Securitate, so bad they no longer have models being produced. The HMG profile is almost pretty decent.

>>53033717
A TL;DR on the orc argument is:
They aren't the best shooting options for their points in vanilla. In a haris they cost a huge amount of points compared to other HI and don't bring anything else to the table, and they also don't have cheap specialists.

They're just too under-specialized while being just barely better than other "cheap HI", but being 5-10% better doesn't justify like a 30% increase in points.

>>53033717
orcs are generic hi in a faction that needs hi to be very good at doing certain things. other factions would love them, but pano doesnt need what they offer. theyre too expensive as a link because they dont get the frenzy discount hospitallers and magisters get that makes mo worth playing, and even in nca they have to compete with lots of very good light and heavy troops like auxilia, bulleteers, and the guards.

>>53033820
>>53033912

Ah that seems pretty fair of an argument. MB are roughly ORCs and choosing between them, Riots, and Taskmasters and Geckos is like a sliding scale of things you want to do with clear point differences.

Think a setup like Haqq where ORCs taking a cheapo LI filler for links help them out?

>>53034031
Any link with LI filler I feel like is pretty insane and immediately skyrockets the efficiency of said link. God an orc HMG+2 fusis is 64 points, vs 115 for 3 ORCs.

>>53033682
That depends on how good your manners are and how big your pocketbook is.

>Starters are supposed to be a good introduction to the game
>usariadna starter doesn't even hit 100 points
CB clearly doesn't care for Americans

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Does anyone have a better picture/scan of this panel/page. That knight is quite the BAMF

>>53034092
For ORC+fusi, I was thinking more 2:1 and 3:2, so that Haris is BSG+HMG+fusi for 90 points and 2.5SWC. For comparison; a Hospitaller HMG with a pair of Magisters is 85 points 2 SWC. Not perfect since MO doesnt have Haris, but still a decent way to bring ORCs up to par...maybe?

>>53034134
MAKE WAY FOR BEST KNIGHT

hey anyone got that tactical guide that was posted a while back here? The one that teaches you movement and everything?

>>53034031
too good, if anything

links are very powerful defensively. the traditional weakness of linking elite troops is having to take a bunch of expensive filler dudes you dont want. giving nca (or varuna or whatever) a hi pointman for their fusilier link completely changes what the fireteam is capable of. a hmg orc with link bonuses can muscle through most anything in the game, can survive an errant crit thanks to his second wound, and in a fireteam is also moving up specialists while being rambo.

the hospitaller/magister link is already among the best in the game

>>53034278

Funnily enough, nobody in ISS seems to be running the Crane in their Celestial Guard links.

What do you think is the story there? Surely not every ISS player is just an idiotic dolt who hasn't worked it out?

>>53033370
BOLT Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
BOLT Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
BOLT Boarding Shotgun, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
BOLT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24)
BOLT Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)

>>53034335
the crane is considerably more expensive, less focused, and doesnt have the hmg profile that this link would really like. doesnt help that you cant use triangulated fire in a fireteam, which is one of the neatest things about the sensor profiles. it also competes with the kuang shi link which is really good

>>53034335
That relies on people running Celestial Guard links. There aren't that many of those, and a number of the ones I've seen or used include a Crane. Kuang Shi order batteries and Wu Ming pain trains are more common.

>>53034437
Yup, doesnt get more BOLT than that.

>>53034441
But you still get to bully camo mercilessly

>>53034441
You can still use traingulated fire in a fireteam as of HSN3, but you will get none of the bonuses. No +1 burst or +3 BS, but sometimes it might be a good idea.

>>53034972
Max range long shots on ODD/TO are always fun times.

I like the Bolts and all, but they feel just a bit too expensive for what they bring.

I wish they had at least WIP13 and/or a Haris option.

>>53033589
Bipandra is worthless even more so than the Teutons IMO.

>>53033683
I definitely agree with the Khawarij - even linked and with a HRL and with Tarik as an options in Ramah, I don't like them.

But I think the Zhayedan is fine.


>>53033639
Hexa is decent. Kostantinos is good, but the Infiltration option is expensive as fuck especially compared with the Spec Sgt TOFO.

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Quick question:

I'm gonna be playing a spec ops game (Armoury, 300pts vs ASS) with my MRRF and I was wondering, how do you outfit an ariadnan spec ops?

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Almost done

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>>53036782

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>>53036800

>>53036810
>>53036800
>>53036782
Not an Infinity player so no idea: What is this model? Is gorgeous.

>>53033639
Hexas and Konnie are both good, you don't need to worry about them. The others are pretty much on point though. Bipandra is severely overpriced for her worth and costs SWC for some reason, Teutons are a subpar result of Santiago/Magister crossbreeding, and Singh is just fucking weird.

>>53036911
Maghariba Guard. It's a TAG for Haqqislam.

>>53036935
Bipranda is easy to fix; just give her the newer Dire Foes treatment: 20pts 0swc. Done.

Singh I just don't get. CoC on a drop trooper is weird and his very basic loadout is not helping matters.

>>53036935
Easy fixes for all of them:
- Just make Bipranda 20/0 and she'd be fine.
- Replace Chain of Command with Executive Order on Singh.
- People have offered a shitload of Teuton fixes, but I like this simple one: combi/haris profile, combi/eclipse profile, NWI.

>>53037131
The assault pistol on Singh is nice, as is stealth. But CoC just ends up doing nothing but bump up the price more often than not because AD troopers die a lot. There are far cheaper and more versatile ways to make a drop troop a specialist.

>>53036412
>Bipandra is worthless even more so than the Teutons IMO.
The main problem of Bipandra is the 0.5SWC cost. WIth their BS12 and a double HMG setup Fusiliers make a hell of an offensive link, adding a WIP13 Doctor with a shotgun in there is great. But with the SWC cost one would usually take the Hacker instead.

>Hexa is decent. Kostantinos is good, but the Infiltration option is expensive as fuck especially compared with the Spec Sgt TOFO.
Hexa is more than decent, he's great.
Konstantinos is pretty much auto-include for me. He's a swiss army knife of a unit, with Mimetism, MSV2 and Specialist Operative, I usually take an objective and manage to dislodge a problematic unit with him before he dies. He costs the same as a Croc or a Specialist Sergeant, but I often just take one of each as well, to compliment Konstantinos. And I don't even like the model that much.

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What I think ORCs need is Duo on all profiles.
They make a pretty decent Duo (I ran one with TeamPro in vanilla shortly after HSN3 came out to learn those rules) and I wish I could get both the Hacker and HMG moving without BSG tax.
Giving them Duo would give them a niche even in NCA.

>>53034119
That's why they have a 200pts army box that also contains the starter.

>>53037187
>eclipse
The idea is to make Teutons an option, not to make them mandatory for all MO lists and many vanilla ones.

And Teuton haris is just weird, I don't know why everyone seems to be so obsessed with it. You either have them as your main order and therefore would be better served by core with a Magister option, or you don't and therefore you can only take 2. Teutons don't need unique links, they just need the same shit Hospitallers and Santiagos have.

NWI or dogged is cool though, that seems to be generally agreed upon. It's fluffy, would make them more distinct and useful, and goes well with their lack of cube.

>>53037346
People just want Haris in MO.

>>53037383
Yeah, but there's better stuff you could do there. Give it to Order Sergeants, maybe even let a Father Knight join the team. FKs leading around some grunts seems appropriate.

>>53037131
>>53037197
CoC on an AD Trooper is basically a bug at this point. It's no longer awesome and is literally unusable.
Executive Order is worse than CoC and has no function except weird shellgame shit.

He just needs to be able to either save the day by becoming LT as he drops in, or he needs to shave off like 8 points, because he's overpriced as hell.

Bipandra's problem is she gains too little. +1 ARM and +3 BTS is almost nothing in terms of survivability. She only gains WIP13 and a LSG for a whopping 10/0.5 in real value.

She's an 18-20 point model, not a 24 point one. And that does matter, since if linked, she can't take a Palbot either which makes her doctor's value less than a regular trauma doc.

>>53037346
Side tangent, but the main order/confrere thing need to fuck off anyway; it's an old system that has no business being part of the game now.

>>53037669
>Executive Order is worse than CoC
>He just needs to be able to save the day by becoming LT as he drops in
But that's what Executive Order does?

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It seems weird that CB would not update old Dire Foes profiles when they tend to randomly change and rebalance stuff as they go. They are playtesting all the time and they have data on which profiles people take, thanks to Army. Are they not aware that Bipandra and other Dire Foes need some rebalancing? Why does Konstantinos cost as much as Yasbir when Holo2 and MA3 makes the Hassassin strictly better? They don't even counter each other, as MSV2 does nothing against HoloEchoes.

It's really a shame, because Pandra is a top tier waifu.

>>53037880
MSV2 is really good against most other infiltrators though. None of the DF are really made to counter each other.

Yasbir could probably go without smoke desu, without it I'd say he and Konnie are pretty balanced. He already has holo2 to close distance, he doesn't another tool for that.

>>53038083
>None of the DF are really made to counter each other.
No, but when the guys are in the same pack, cost exactly the same and the special scenario pits them against each other you can't help but compare them in this way.
Removing Yasbir's Smoke grenades is one thing, but I'd also think about giving Konstantinos a shotgun or a DTW. I know he has an Assault Pistol, but that is more of an active turn weapon at a really close range, where he's exposing himself to shotguns and DTWs, negating his Mimetism. Or just cutting his cost to the same one pays for TO Camo Sergeant in MO.

Also Yasbir benefits a lot more from being linked, but that is part of overall faction design, not something to "fix" with the character. When one is based around LI links and the other HI ones, of course the LI character is going to work better linked in the first one.

>>53036782
>>53036800
>>53036810
Fuck me man, that's gorgeous. Can't wait to see it based.

>>53038292
Linked Yasbir sucks nuts desu. He's entirely CC based and his linkable form has nothing to accommodate that. His associates don't really want to be in CC range of anyone, and all holo1 does for him is pleasantly surprise the enemy when he drops like a bitch after 1 shot.

Konnie isn't great linked either, but he at least contributes as a camo killer or doorkicker.

>>53038379
>Konnie isn't great linked either, but he at least contributes as a camo killer or doorkicker.
Barely. Combi Rifle, even linked and with Mimetism, is still just a Combi Rifle. For pure anti-camo Black Friar or Spitfire + MSV2 Sergeant is better, Konstantinos is a multi-tool. He's like Bandit when compared to other Camo Infiltrators in Nomads.

My point about Yasbir is that Muyibs are a lot better than Order Sergeants and Yasbir gives them some close combat protection. He's still better solo.

>>53038419
CC protection doesn't amount to much when it's only one dude, most of the time people will just shoot you and even if they can't they could stab one of the link buddies. I wouldn't ever trade one of the fantastic profiles Muyibs get for some non-dogged CC fucker.

But either way we're splitting hairs here. Both DF guys are far better infiltrated than linked.

So my copy of the manga has a section of pages that were bound upside down and out of order. Anyone heard anything about this? Should I contact CB for a replacement?

>>53038678
>Should I contact CB for a replacement?
Yes.

>>53037880
They'll probably get updated in Paradiso N3...Hopefully

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>>53039402
Alongside Teutons, right? ...right?

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>>53039687
Sorry, Ulrich.

>>53039687
I wish Montesas were more like Teutons instead of looking as bulky as Father-Knights.
Maybe it's the shoulderpads that do it.

>>53039830
Fuck you, Montesas look amazing and Teutons wish they had models and/or rules half as good.

>>53039687
It's more likely than you might think, since the Paradiso units will be part of VIID.

I wouldn't hold my breath though.

>>53039687
Yes.
You'll get new sculpts and shit old rules. The sculpts will be distinctively Teutonic and not good enough to proxy/convert as different orders.

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Let's discuss TAGLINE "Chapter"

http://assets.infinitythegame.net/downloads/its-events/tagline-ch-6/en/v1.0/its-tagline-ch-6.pdf

A sepulchral silence flooded the area. As soon as the smoke cleared, we noticed the ferocity and roughness of the fight that had just occurred.
Nobody expected to run into a Combined Army patrol in that sector. Fortunately, the first shot
from the Overdron hit Eduardo. He resisted and responded to the attack, giving us some time to withdraw to defensive positions from which repel that scum.

When the battle was over, we entered the facilities to hunt those urchins from ALIVE. To our surprise, we realized that the triangulation of that signal led us to a false location. A small,
medium-range antenna and a comlog were enough to throw us off their track. In the end we’ll have to admit they’re clever. Before we even finished combing over the facilities, we suffered another attack from an advanced CA force.

It’s rumored among the troops that this was a trial by the ALIVE group that they lured the alien
forces so that we’d have to deal with them. Me? The truth is I no longer know what to believe—this is Paradiso. The enemy is everywhere and coincidences do exist.

>>53039830
>>53039881
I have the same gripe with the Montesas. They look great, but the fact that they only have 3 armor and still wear the same suit as the FK annoys me. I like some consistency.

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If I leave off the contenders from the Mutan, would that be enough to make it count as a Surda? It's got hornes the other doesn't have, but I *really* don't see the point of the Mutan.
Also, is it just me or does the guy's armor look nothing like symbiont armor?

>>53041284
I agree he's the least Tohaa looking Tohaa, but it's also not like Armand's sweet biker jacket and camo pants with Haqqislamite kneepads immediately scream symbionte armor either.

>>53037338
that basically makes the starter irrelevant thought doesn't it. They might as well not have a starter if i can't even be used for starter games without a serious disadvantage

do poles really complain about the fact that Teutons are in the game. It seems like a long time to still hold a grudge.

>>53041518
>poles
>holding a grudge
No, really? Say it isn't so!

>>53034119
>>53041481

>starters are supposed to be sets of six models providing a foot in the door to the house of a faction/sectorial
>provides a taste of the flavor of the faction, usually sampling a heavy, camo/skirmisher, and light infantry cheerleaders of the faction
>USAriadna's flavor is a bunch of cheap troops, cheap camo, and bargain "heavy infantry".
>Starter does exactly what it is supposed to do
>This happens to be less than 100 points
>some american is complaining how it's not more points, despite it being fitting for the faction, and the starters not having a standard point limit.
>American fails to recognize the benefits of the capitalist method to encourage you to buy their alternate starter pack or more models to your choosing and the other advantage in numbers, as you should be expecting with this faction's main draws.

>>53041584
>capitalism in action
It's the American way.

>>53041595
America ist Wunderbar
Coca-cola, sometimes war

>>53029970
Sensor is the poor man's MSV.

>>53032286
>Here is one scenario out of many possible that makes my ideas seem valid.

Bolts have a full toolbox. They are a credible threat against everything in the game at close range. A link team of Bolts is meant to deploy front and center, move up while chucking drop bears, and then bunker down while your specialists get to work. Getting through 3-6 mines, E/M grenades, boarding shotguns, hacking AROs, and a link team.

You move fusiliers up, and they're just a LI link that gets pasted.

>>53041533
well that aint a pole thing, but more of a slav thing. Serbs remember what and who sides with turks durning the invasion. Russians made a fest to celebrate the driving out of Poles from kremlin. Croats remember what Serbs did when serbs had their own kingdom etc.
But to not be too slav centric, WASPS in UK live as if the great armada was still sailing their way.

You're playing against vanilla Ariadna. He hands you his courtesy list; it is blank. The only thing on the field are two camo tokens, one infiltrated.

What do you suspect his list looks like? It is 300 points.

>>53039744
Uuu first Strilitz in the last thread and now Aleksander Nevski The Movie. Hold me brother[no homo].

>>53041947
I have a HMG with MSV3 and ten orders to fuel it as well as a couple of dropbears and various flamers. I am confident I don't really give a shit.

>>53042078
msv3 exists? I though it was caped at 2 on rare models, and in most cases its only msv1 or x-visors.

>>53041947
Ariadna has no hidden deployment... So it's a bunch of AD Parachutists? I set up one missile launcher to watch each side of the board and watch as the entire squad runs on at the same board edge through template fire. Corner guards looking elsewhere, since Mirage-5 will probably come on somewhere else.

>>53041905
If you read my other posts I went into how they both do to viral and mines. And how is firing vs a shock weapon best case for fusis? Naturally BTS 6 vs shock is favorable for bolts, but that example shows that since it only applies when losing the ftf it doesn't do all that much.

>>53042121
Asuras, Aquilas and Charontids all carry MSV3 and all are fairly common picks for Aleph, PanO and Combined Army.

>>53041518
As a Pole, fuck no. People would totally play them if not for the rules, because that's one order everyone knows.

>>53041947
Well, I'm expecting a bunch of AD so I'd hope for the best and:


Move my Raiden or other template shooting reactive piece to one flank, move a couple of cheerleaders or so to cover the other open flanks, coordinate suppression fire.

Sensor/discover the chasseur (or possibly scout) in the middle. Discover+CC (or shoot) The Tankhunter in their deployment zone.

>>53042262
You misunderstand.

The Bolts are the ones with the mines and the E/M grenades.

Spotlight + Specfire E/M grenades is brutal against paintrain links and TAGs. You can often skip the Spotlight and still get favorable FtF.

Mines are good against infiltrators and with the Burst bonus for Fireteams they are order efficient to cover a wide area.

Bolts are a solid Fireteam to cover the middle of the board against a wide array of common threats (LI infiltrators, paintrain HI, TAG) so that the rest of your NCA list can go get the mission done, like the Pathfinders, Fugazi, Devas, Peacemakers, Hexas and/or Swiss Guard Hackers etc. etc.

>>53042542
ah ok. no plays those armies around here, but it is good to know msv3 exist. What does it do on top of the same stuff mvs1&2 do ?

>>53042819
It auto-discovers instead of needing a WIP roll and it does not take surprise shot penalties from people coming out of camo against them.

>>53042819
Auto-pass discover rolls against camo and ignores the surprise shot penalties if being shot.

>>53042819
No roll to discover. If you Discover, it's automatic.

It also ignores the mods to Surprise Shot

>>53041284
>If I leave off the contenders from the Mutan, would that be enough to make it count as a Surda?
Yes, the top part of the contender is actually the same piece as the pulzar.

>>53042865
>>53042866
>>53042896
Rather OP. If I knew stuff like that I maybe would have started something else, everyone here plays either nomads or some sort of ariadna, with the rare weeb playing yu jing.

>>53044316
To be fair, they're usually on expensive units, and the price compared to a normal MSV2 IIRC is like 6 or 8 points extra.

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>>53041984
Alexander Nevsky is a surprisingly good movie.

>>53044316
>Rather OP.
Not really.
It was OP in N2 when it allowed user to shoot without Discover. Now it requires using an Order to Discover.

Any Aleph people here? A friend of mine is getting into the game and is thinking of picking up both starters; he's not interested in sectorials.

Aside from net rods, any other obvious pick ups? How is the Marut?

>>53044787
If they aren't interested in steel phalanx I wouldn't bother with their starter. My buy list would be:
Post Humans MkII
Naga mine layer
Dasyus hacker (to use as a proxy mkII)
Spitfire Myrmidon and/or Spitfire Deva
Alpeh support (netrods and sophotects)

Is it just me, or do people who start the game playing Ariadna greatly undervalue how much infil/camo and APHMgs are worth? I have a guy starting Haqq who's been playing ariadna awhile, and he's complained that Azra'ils aren't very good because they're 'just' a cheap-ish APHMG and that hunzakuts, al'hawwa, and farzans don't really have enough options individually to be worth it.

>>53045159
That's because they are new and can't into tactics yet. They expect everyone to play like PanO.
This is also why many new people think Nomads are shit, when they have simply not learned how to fight dirty yet.

What's the highest Base link team BS in the game? Like, before range mods but including the +1 B and +3 BS.
I'm just wondering if it goes over 17.

>>53045975
Joan can shoot with BS 18 without range mods.

>>53046006
And it's just Joan? No other character matches her or is possibly higher?

>>53046006
Yeah, pretty sure she wins that.

>>53046018
I don't think there is any other Core linkable BS15 troop. There is no base BS higher than 15.

>>53046018
Damn, you've made me curiours. Apparently, Sheskiin can join core links as well, so I guess there are two models in the game that can boost their basic BS to 18.

>>53046168
I was asking because I was sure I was forgetting something. Just to make sure, there's no Haris option that is BS 15?

>>53046208
Nope. Highest BS army is PanO and they suck at Haris.

So I was fiddling around iwth the army builder, I noticed that there are 18 named special characters in Steel Phalanx. It comes out to between 700 and 800 points depending on how you do it.

The question is, what could stand up against the might of the homeridae? I'm tempted to homebrew up a special scenario where they go up against an equivalent points value of special characters from all the other factions, maybe in some sort of big Ariesta! Match as the in-setting excuse. Do you think that'd be fun?

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>>53048641
Eight salamanders and ten clockmakers come up to 800 precisely.

>>53049626
The homeridae list would be legal, though

>>53041518
Only if you claim they are Polish units.

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>>53041947

Hey, let's have a challenge, infinity general, a listbuilding challenge. You're taking a faction of your choice to a 300 point tournament with an interesting rules restrction they call Specialist Games; every model in your army that is not a G:sync or g:servant REM must be a specialist. If you have no LT specialist options, you can bring a non-specialist LT of your choice. Games will be heavily objective based with different objects for different types of specialists, anda t least one list must be Limited Insertion. What do you bring?

>>53051594
Does the add on robot thingy TAGs have make the whole TAG a specialist under these rules? Or no TAGs in this setup?

>>53051629

the TAGLINE effect allows both the TAG remotes and TAG pilots with the appropriate rules to count.

>>53051594
Long-ranged and heavy weapons will be very rare outside of tags, as will msv. Hackers will be around, but repeaters will be scarce. Camo infiltrators would probably be common, but minelayers would not be. MSV guys will be stuck with combi rifles, but there wont be many with smoke grenades either.

I would be tempted to go with ISS. FO celestial guards are very efficient, and their B2 flash pulse is going to be one of the best aro guns on the table. They have no specialist lt so you get to pick whichever you like (sun tze). KHD ninja are lethal against all the hackers, and will be a melee threat to the tags that are likely to be common. Yaokong rems help to counter camo and provide repeater coverage for your own ninja, kanren, and cg hackers.

Biggest threat would likely be the avatar, because dealing with a 9 bts odd tag would be ever harder than normal. I wouldn't be surprised if CA did very well in such a format.

NCA would be fun for fo axuilia spam, but having to take a squalo as your lt would limit your options enormously.

>>53051594
Vanilla ALEPH
Asura gives you a MSV3 specialist
Machaon and Myrm Officer/hacker bring smoke of either kind
Scylla or Thamyris can provide some repeater coverage if you want to go hacker heavy

>>53051594
On first blush, JSA. Pretty much locked into the O Yoroi LT, but still have the points to fit in keisotsu fireteam and choice of Karakuri Haris or Shikami duo plus change for a couple cheap models or a sub 30 point model.

Ariadna would probably be in a good spot with all their infiltrating specialists and even a smoke tossing engineer.

Nomads are in a decent spot with many affordable specialists and relatively cheap TAGS. The Kusanagi Haris would be a pain to deal with without the widespread templates or MSV with big guns and the GRRLS would be one of the few remaining effective pain trains around. Corregidor is not too shabby but would distinctly lack any big gun.

Alright, I'm bored.

Someone tell me a qt infinity character they want cute interactions with Anon. First reasonable one gets it.

>>53053335

Female Wulver.

>>53053335
Tiger Soldier Hacker.

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>>53051594

Not even that bad a list honestly, you get forced into taking the expensive myrm hacker to get normal smoke, and you can't take netrods for your posthuman to make the order safer, but not actually that far from a serious Aleph list.

>>53053335
seconding Tiger Soldier Hacker

>>53029423
>Vedic, Varuna and Tunguska is what I'm waiting for. I play just Tohaa right now so the next book will hurt my wallet.

>>53053367
Female wulver it is, then tiger soldier hacker.

Now, I'm thinking Anon is a...volunteer? Morat missiles coming down and he jumps into a crater when the shockwave tosses the wulver girl into the same crater. Face meets boobs and they have to stay like that whilst the bombardment happens. A few blushes and chain rifle/t2 volleys later and they prove to be such a thorn in the Morat's push that it buys time for reinforcements to come. Post ideas for tiger soldier hacker whilst I write this up, please

>>53041284
>Also, is it just me or does the guy's armor look nothing like symbiont armor?
It's a commonly held theory they had a bitch of time balancing the unit and added symbiote after the model was sculpted.

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>>53053367

"Ohshitohshitohshit!"

The street is exploding around you as you run down the street, morat missiles hammering down like the fists of an angry god. Spying a particularly deep impact crater through the haze of the bombardment, you dive into relatuve safety, your shoulder catching some sharp gravel as you slid to a stop.
"Go scout their forces! Ye'll be fine!" You mutter to yourself, clutching your chain rifle tightly. "It's not like they'll fukkin' spot you with their fancy gadgets an'..."
BOOM
With a yelp, a human looking shadow blankets over you before your world goes black.
...and strangely warm. Is that apples you smell?
"Err...sorry about tha', hun"
You hear a deep feminine voice through your muffled hearing, the light coming back into your vision to reveal the cleavage of a pair of magnificent breasts, somehow confined into this uniform. The slightly angular features of a wulver look down at you, blushing slightly at the compromising position you found yourselves in.
"Err...It's fine, don't worry about-"
BOOM
Your world goes dark once again as the Morat bombardment resumes, hammering the street in an attempt to clear it of any annoying humans.
"Ya alright there?" You hear the boobs speak.
"Mmm mrrr."
"C'mon an' get up," She says, rolling off you and peeking over the lip of the crater. "We've got company."
you grunt and crawl up to street level, spying the gorillas moving up the sides of the street.
Fuck.
"...That's a lot of Morat."
"Aye." She nodded, racking the slide of her rifle. "Let's show 'em what they're up against, eh hun?"
You shrug and take a grenade from her belt before tossing it over the edge, causing a group to scatter out of cover before it exploded.
"Aye, let's."
This was going to be a long day, but you suppose there are worse ways to go.

>>53054015
I gotta pop down to the shops, I'll write up the tiger soldier hacker one when I get back. In the meantime, post any ideas you want to happen

>>53054015

Very nice, very badass. I greatly approve.

>>53044397
that mail shirt.... was too short....*dies*.

What's the best Skirmisher and why is it

>Guilang

>>53055636
Proxy Mk2, but that's sort of cheating since Posthumans are so busted.

Morans, Clipsos, Gaylangs and both impersonators are up there. Probably Nagas too, that shotgun minelayer profile is sweet.

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>>53051594
>Corregidor
Not sure if possible.
>Nomads
Easy.
>PanO
Possible, but undergunned.

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>>53053471
>>53053393

Right, tiger Soldier Hacker...

"Anon, is it? Stop what you're doing and get down here!"

You look down from running diagnostics on the honoured Guijia's arm actuators to see one of the Tiger soldiers tapping her foot impatiently.
"How may I be of service?" You ask, saluting.
"Took you long enough." she tutters. "My jump pack was damaged during the last sortie against the Pan-Oceanian devils and won't disengage from my armor. Fix it and make sure they didn't break anything else."
You ignore her snippy attitude and comply, ducking behind her to inspect the jump pack. She's...remarkable. The bullet must have missed her slender neck and glanced off the locking mechanism, before impacting the control vane.
"I am sorry, honoured tiger soldier, but this may take some time." You explain. "If you would be so kind as to sit down over here, I will be able to remove the jump pack for you."
She rolls her emerald eyes and sits down where you indicated, her elbows resting on her knees as you get to work. A simple screwdriver between the plates levers the locking clasp apart, and with trained swiftness, you are able to remove the jump pack before you earned her ire.
"There we are, honoured Tiger," You smile, carrying the jump pack to a cradle and trying to avoid looking at the flash of baby blue poking above the small of her back. "I'll need to replace this control vane, but I should be able to have it ready for you by the end of the day."
"Be sure you do." she sniffs, before getting up and stretching. Waving off your salute, she turns around and walks out of your workshop.
The life of a Zhanshi is thankless, but sometimes it does have it's perks.

>>53055895
I could've done that a lot better. For some reason it was hard to think of a scenario for Anon to interact with them.

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>>53055895
Nicely done.
How about a Fraacta or Maakrep next?

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>>53051594
>>53055814
Yeah, in Corregidor I can't make it LI.

>>53055907
I thought it was good. The casual setting worked well for it, though maybe the ending was a bit hasty.

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>>53051594
I'll be honest, that went a lot better than I expected for MAF. Morats have always had some great rambo lieutenant options and that's a big help here. The number of combat specialists is also good, Raktoraks and Kurgats can bring pretty decent firepower by specialist standards.

>>53055678
Fucking Clipsos', man. Almost as cheap as most camo troops and can take minelayers and nullifiers, that can really mess ones game, in addition of being cheapo FO specialist option you can plant next to objective for cheap last turn objective grabbing.

>>53055927
I think I already did a fractaa, with a 112 patching her up. I could try and scrounge around for it, though.
>>53056030
I agree, probably should have thrown in some uppity flirting or something.

>>53055927
Alright, I'll do you a Maakrep. What do you want anon to be and what kind of scene do you want?

>>53056441
How about a Maakrep and Nisse-anon aggressively flirting over the coms while they try to kill each other during a sniper battle, only ending when both are forced to withdraw?

>>53056441
A comedy of errors with a Maakrep and a Chasseur constantly blundering into one another in an escalation of incompetence.

Rolled 1 (1d2)

>>53056809
>>53056840
Ok, rolling to see which one. 1 is Nisse-anon, 2 is Chasseur-anon

>>53056251
>112 patching Fraacta
wut? What next, hot Irmandinho x Uhlan action?

>>53057133
How are you going to interrogate them if they're dead?

>>53057409
Sock puppets, duh.

>>53029278
Does anyone know of the infinity scene in Japan?

>>53056441
Here's a hard one, do a proxy

>>53057813
Is it still a three-way if two of them are under the control of the same mind? Do Posthumans ever have their bodies make out?

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>>53056809
>>53056840
>>53056441

"...Polished your horns well, I see."
"And I guess you want me to polish something else, Annon?"

Three days. Three days you've been stuck on this frigid mountain pass, with no-one but this Maakrep for company. You still don't know how she got into your comms, but things have been getting a little...strange.
"Only if you're offering. It's been mighty cold out here, Hanyel. Why don't you go back and warm yourself up?" You chuckle as you hide behind a wind blasted rock shelf.
"I can stay here forever, human. Can you?"
"As long as it takes."
Another day goes by on that frigid pass, and you're nearing the bottom of your rations. This was supposed to be a quick recon mission, but that damned Maakrep! Just need to get her to reveal herself...
"Ohoho...I know where you are, Annon." you hear a gloat crackle over your comm bead.
An idea forms in your head as you hear this, and so you open up comms again.
"Really now? Care to make a wager? Something like...images?"
"Of what, hoo-mon?"
"You."
You hear a splutter over the comm before she chimes back in. "So you wish to gaze upon perfection? And what could you hope to offer if I win?"
"Well, if you win, I'd be dead, so there's that."
She purrs over the comm channel, considering her options. "I think I might just take your leg off, or perhaps your arm for such insolence. Very well, I accept."
You calmly wait behind your rock shelf, counting the minutes as you wait for the shot to ring out.
"So...are you going to fire?"
"Patience, I am simply taking aim."
"...you don't know where I am, do you?"
"Silence."

>>53057984
Five more minutes go by before finally a shot rings out, a puff of rock dust appearing on the outcropping a hundred feet to your right.
"That poor rabbit...not even close, I'm afraid." You chuckle over the comms.
"Silence, the wind pushed the bullet off course." she grumbles.
"And your weaponry doesn't compensate?" You smirk over the comm. "Would you prefer best two out of three?"
A snarl is all you hear before the waiting begins again. Ten minutes later another shot cracks the shelf some fifty feet above you. Judging by those sounds she could be...
"Try again, Hanyel. That's a lovely name, by the way."
"Flattery will not save you, Annon."
"No, but those nudes will definitely warm my heart." You respond with a chuckle. "One more shot, by the way."

>>53057993
All you could hear was the wind howling through the pass for the next ten minutes, the chill seeping through your armor and into your bones when what looked to be an eagle settled down upon your helmet. A puff of rock dust feathers erupted above you as the eagle's terrified squawks echoed through the pass, it's tail feathers now missing from it's rear as it flapped away.
"Wow, I can hear that poor bird all the way from here." You smile smugly, not letting on that she would've had your head if her shot fell six inches lower. "I believe, as the winner..?"
"Very well..."
"...geant Annon? Sergeant Annon, this is command, can you read me?" You hear another voice crackle over your comms.
"Sergeant Annon here, over."
"Pull back and meet up with the heavy armor column that's moving through your ppass in ten minutes, we're pushing the combined army back and want you to provide covering fire."
"Err...yes command. Annon out."
Cutting your comm channel with command, you quickly swap over your signal to Hanyel.
"Hello? Hanyel?"
"Be patient" you hear back. "It's rather cold..."
"Not that-wait, you're really...? Never mind. Just letting you know that it might be a good idea for you to clear out soon, just saying." You replied, hinting at what was coming.
You hear no reply for what seems like eternity, when the clunk of TAG feet and the crunch of boots in snow could be heard entering the pass, led by aquila guard watching the rocks above. A blip appeared on your hud, a message with a file attached before a horned shadow slinks away from the other side of the pass.

...gee, it really was cold.

>>53057744
There's hardly any wargaming scene in Japan from what I know, but I couldn't tell for sure.

>>53057744
Two years ago came a player from japan to the interplanetary, but he was a tall guy with blue eyes and curly blonde hair.

>>53056231
>>53055678
>>53055636
While Guilang are great, yet it honestly angers me that Clipsos exist. Luckily I don't face Tohaa all that often.

Morans are the most annoying speed bump I most commonly face as I'd like to shove their spread out and hiding behind building Crazy Koalas in their face, but I don't particularly think of them as the best.

Nagas do seem top tier to me.

>>53057744
>>53058085
>>53058100

Cheers guys, welp then there goes my infinity for 2 years. I guess import costs are high.

>>53058350
Wargames just never caught on over there. They've got their own TTG community, but wargaming tends to take up a lot of space that many Japs just don't have. Board games and TTRPGs are more common.

>>53058002
>>53057993
>>53057984
This is amazing. I hope you have a lovely day.

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>>53058002
>>53057993
>>53057984
I didn't know I wanted this until I got it. Cheers.

Guys what would be the easiest army to paint , if someone has problems with eyesight and hand control?

>>53058002
Awesome. Do a posthuman next!

>>53059348
None, really. They are all very fiddly with tiny details.

>>53059348
Nomads.

>>53058002
>>53057993
>>53057984
This one is your best one yet, friend.

>>53059348
Hard to nail it down. Every faction is going to have more straps and armor plates in needing of highlights than you've likely thought you've signed up for.

>>53055895
>That camel toe
How incredibly lewd

>>53059393
Well I guess I will just watch other people play on youtube. Servs me right for thinking about hobbies later in life :D. Amazing game by the way, from what I have seen life and on youtube.

>>53057984
>>53057993
>>53058002
Good stuff mate. This one-on-one dialogue is a good format for Infinity. I know most writers don't need ideas...but here are a few quick scenarios off the top of my head...

>A motherly Sophotect doting on a badly injured and super serious Crane Agent, the former completely confident she can totally reconstruct the missing tissue with her Mother forge, the latter convinced she has already died gloriously for the State
>A bubbly and overly friendly Hafza trying to live up to their units translation as 'friend to everyone' makes an attempt to form a 'fireteam'...with a surly Azrail.
>Far afield in joint ops, an Iguana Pilot takes a moment to step out of her suit and refresh, only to run into a full Gorgos suit. They talk about the differences in how their TAGs are extensions of themselves, how they are or feel alive, and how they both end up being loners in gregarious societies because of it

>>53059654
Though so, Kind of a hoped there was something more like mono colored dudes which could be done with 1-2 colors and a wash.

>>53059348
Space Marines.
More seriously, PanO or YJ, because simple HI and TAGs.

>>53059767
Yeah, Nomads.

>>53059875
nah man, as much I would like to get social now , w40k is not something I would like to go in to. Asked a few people how much an army costs and lets just say I would rather upgrade my PC, then spend 900$ on an army.

Some people mentioned Nomads. Which models should I get? My problem is that I probably won't be able to paint any small detail. But I can, or at least I think I still can, dry brush stuff. It worked for dwarfs, but that was 19 years ago, plus dwarfs aren't exactly the most sci fi of models.

>>53059944
>Which models should I get?
Nomads utilize a very simple color scheme. Basically: red armor, black clothes. If you have troubles with painting, try models that wear helmets. Corregidor is your way to go. Intruders, wildcats, hellcats, mobile brigada: most of them will look nice with 2 colour paintjob and a brown wash. If you want it to look better, use dark gray instead of black and black wash over it. It will pick up all the details and make your dudes look more realistic.

>>53059744
>newly-promoted pheasant rank is showing off cool new madtraps to other soldiers, accidentally hotglues himself to attractive female coworker

>>53059767
Yeah, unfortunately there's no straight Necrons equivalent. For some reason though, the one that strikes me as possibly easiest to paint would be Onyx Contact Force as a good amount of it is just pink or whatever exotic color you pick and a wash. That is, if it weren't for all edge highlighting on the armor plates which I wouldn't recommend for someone with something similar to Parkinson's disease.

I, for example, have painted an entire Nomad army and don't find them particularly easy to paint. So many belts, I'm never sure how to paint the boots, there are so many lines in their standard pants which look like they need a decent highlight, but on the flip side you don't have to paint as many faces because a good amount of them wear helmets. Perhaps it's because I try too hard, not accepting having belts or backpacks the same color as the body, and I usually do some freehand patterns on the armor plates. To me, Nomads have been as difficult if not harder to paint than the other two armies I've painted, Yu Jing and Haqqislam.

>>53059944
But if you're set on Nomads (rather popular faction for a reason) I suggest the combi rifle Moran, the remotes boxes (you'll likely want both eventually, but either/or works fine with a preference for the smaller ones), a support box with Daktari/Machinist, and if you're up for it the Nomad Starter or Nomad Half of Operation Icestorm. I suggest you learn the rules playing a generic ("vanlla") army before getting into sectorial rules, Operation Icestorm's great for easing you into it with their rules booklet that explains the basic rules you got to get down before you get to more advanced stuff like Hacking.

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>>53060062
>A Zhanying shaves the head of a Wu Ming fem-anon and prepares to tattoo the identification number on her forehead. The Zhanying is clearly enjoying herself as she belittles and mocks the Wu Ming, who's locked-up armor prevents any movement from her supplicant pose; only the top of her head and eyes are not covered by armor.

>>53060597
Take your shit fetish out of here.

>>53060612
No.

>>53060597
Anything with locked up HI sounds fun. >>53060062
Or glue.

Or Expelling s blushing TAG Pilot
Or Overlording their suit and making it do weird things
Or Oblivioning someone so all they don't have to hear their nasty LT's orders, only your voice in their ear

Where's smaug to illustrate these lovely stories?

>>53060694
Not him, but srsly, GTFO.

>>53060053
>>53060145
Ok thanks. Ill try to get a starter and see how it ends.

OK this got lewd fast

Let's cool off

>Kanren chilling out when he thinks nobody is looking by dad-dancing with his holoechoes as backup dancers, like a lamer Chinese Starlord. Singing along to something really cheesy like Hooked on a Feeling mandatory

>>53060145
>So many belts,
Might I suggest never considering Tohaa for an army to start.

>>53059735
If you wait 1-2 years, there will be a new rule book and tons of new models and resculpts when you finally get into the hobby.

>>53061247
I am 38, waiting 2 years is not realy an option. I ordered the nomad bankunin starter set. I'll check if I can do something with them. Even if I won't be able to make them look ok, it ain't much of a lose comparing to what is needed for other games.

I wish that X-wing was popular in my area, pre painted models would fix everything for me.

>>53061334
If money isn't a big deal for you, there are people that do painting on commission. If you don't get a big force, and you still want your guys to look nice, it's a reasonable solution. It does add a lot of cost on though, I am not sure what the usual rates are.

>>53061060
I had Tohaa in mind when I typed
>>53059654

Although I'm up for the challenge if it means I get to field those sweet symbiomates, symbiobeasts, kerail and a Sukeul Commandos triads.

>>53061046
I can dig it. Speaking of holo troops, I often picture the Ayyar saying "repositioning" when he brings up his echoes again, with the voice of Reaper.

>>53061406
nah I was told to pick up a hobby as it suppose to help me focus etc. Paying someone to paint it for me would not work. But be honest I do not expect them to look good, as long as people won't vomit looking at the models.

>>53061947
When I play Overwatch and see a Reaper teleport stupidly I hear in my head "Reaper Positioning" because most Reapers are shit.

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>>53062109

It doesn't take too much practice to paint like this and this looks fine on a table. Paint inside the lines, apply a few washes, dry brush a little, and cover in matte top coat.

>>53058002
Only on /tg/.
Well done, anon, well done.

>>53060849
On the crapper at work and I don't read fanfics

What are the official colors used for painting Pan Oceania colors? I have trouble finding the tutorial that Giraldez posted on facebook when Icestorm was out.

I remember Prussian blue was the darkest part of the blue.

>The gay furries have moved on to filling the thread with gay fanfiction.
Worst general on /tg/?

>>53064183
>Worst general on /tg/?
at least it doesn't have as much waifu faggotry as as the Battletech general. I actually stopped going there cause there is nothing else going on.
To be fair the game has been somewhat dead from the developer's side for a while, but still.

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>>53064353
I went there recently, and was a regular a few years ago. I stopped keeping up with the fluff after the Jihad, and couldn't figure out why the thread has so much anime and sloots now.

>>53061046
>Kanren chilling out when he thinks nobody is looking by dad-dancing with his holoechoes as backup dancers, like a lamer Chinese Starlord. Singing along to something really cheesy like Hooked on a Feeling mandatory
Same, but Father Sforza. Gotta unwind after keeping that stern unmovable avenger image all the time.

>>53064353
>>53064887

There's nothing else to talk about there. All optimization puzzles have been solved, there's been no new meaningful fluff in almost 5 years and there's none on the horizon, any and all OC is shit upon by angry anons, all of the actual devs have quit because they're either tired of the fanbase (Herb) or not been paid AND tired of dealing with the fanbase (Ben), and the company is clearly abandoning the property in favor of its Family Games line.

What else are people supposed to do with their game conversation when everything else you can talk about is either nonexistent or instantly brings down huge quantites of shit from factionfags too invested in their dying game?

>>53064183
We're heading there.

>>53065741
>BOLTS SUCK
>le polotics
>omg my fake local show in my 3rd world country doesn't sell models or glue, we have to pay for air and the players are literal nazis
>I love this setting! *nuzzles u* owo
>Did I mention ORCs also suck?
>KURWA

great general

>>53065836
At least the manga gave us something new and unusual to discus.

Quick Question:

Can I get surprise shot with a holoprojector lv 1?

>>53067350
No, Holo Lvl 1 is purely for pretending to be some other faggot.

https://www.aristeiathegame.com/
Something's happening.
Not sure what that something is, but it's happening.

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>>53067409
Jesus fuck are they releasing a character focused off shoot game? You spend half your time napping, and N3 Paradiso won't be coming out until like 2020, and yet you Argentine fucks have the time to do this shit? I bet you're going to release so many mercenary sniper characters for this too.

GIVE ME NEW SECTORIALS CORVUS REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>53067409
Looks like a boardgame variant? And another manga?

>>53067571
See my immediate response to this, seeing the lack of models, manga artwork and CG hexes, I actually thought an Infinity computer game was happening.

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>>53067568
Ocelot!?

>>53067409
>>53067485
>>53067568
>>53067571
>>53067617

It's a boardgame, not a miniature one.

>>53067690
Source on no miniatures. We've had weird sniper shots for months.

>>53067350
No. Just think about it for a second. The usual surpise shot sources are dudes that appear to come out of nowhere, or dudes you thought was barbabara from accounting but was actually a Speculo killer, and dudes from which you don't know which one of the three is shooting. If you see an enemy, and that enemy is shooting you, that is no surprise.

>>53067409
Just a reminder that this was thrown among other ideas at the interplanetary seminar.

The Gencon suggestions were:
>Red Veil expansion pack
>Remote Racing
>Deathmatch
>Dogbowl
>Aristeia
>Dungeon Crawler
>Acheron Falls book
>O-12 Army Pack
>Combined Army vs Aleph pack
>New Fantasy Wargame)

>>53067571
>>53067617

Looks like a board game with cards to me. Possbily even just a card game. That's both cheap to do in house and easy to design.

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>>53067853
P.S. by card game I'm thinking something along the line of one of these

>>53067568
Is that Ocelot?

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Tech-bee and Crabbot finished. Though I can't understand how Tikbalang can carry crabbot.

>>53068015
It's great. 8/8 m8.

Did you paint that D.Va Guijia pilot a while back?

>>53067850
I'm also like 99% certain that the second to last picture here >>53067568
is Major Lunah

>>53067917
>Not recognizing wild bill.

Fucking cultureless weeabos. The world doesn't revolve around metal gear.

>>53068127
It is Lunah, there is even a cobra in the background.

>>53068048
Yes. Thanks for remembering her.

Oh joy, everything I never wanted from CB in one convenient package to shit upon.

I don't wanna write this off because CB has has some pretty amazing ideas, but... Bland empty board, MOBA-like characters, looks like a cash grab. The rules better be the best thing ever.

Can you shoot with an impetuous order? I just reread the rule and realized that attack doesn't specify CC

>>53068829
Yes. You can move + shoot/cc/throw smoke/dodge. But the movement has to be the full distance. You can also shoot then move, because that resolved to the same thing.

>>53039687
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>53070766
If you're going to have a psychotic break, at least do it where the Teutons can give you a nice ARO send off.

I'm thinking of picking up Infinity but I don't know much about it other than the models look cool. Can I get a quick rundown on the available factions? Based on nothing but some cursory info from my LGS guy I'm leaning toward the space muslims

>>53072633
Are you looking for a tactical rundown or a fluff summary?

>>53072633
I'm going to say both, or at least a fluff summary. Usually my army selection starts at the fluff and I work around the crunch. If I don't like the armies fluff I never have a fun time playing with them even if their crunch makes them a high tier contender

>>53068733
>MOBA-like characters
THERE WE GO AGAIN

They probably figured boxes sets sell better than starters alone, so they're making a boardgame.

>>53072633
Read the OP.
Also 1d4chan.

>>53072633
Quick TLDR:

>Ariadna
Lore: American, russian, french, scottish soldiers that were stranded on a planet for almost 100 years and just got back in contact with humanity
Game: Lots of camo, Werewolves, armor-piercing, nonexistant hacking and robots

>Yu Jing
Lore: Asians in space, Chinese secret sevice agents and japanese jinas and bikers
Game: lots of heavy infantry, plenty of tricks and high-tech toys

>PanO
Lore: Australians and some other countries who bought up the worlds debt after the colonization of Ariadne failed. Rich boy faction who is considered one of the 2 hyperpowers along with Yu Jing.
Game: No dirty tricks, all great shooting, good robots, high-tech stuff

>Combined army
Lore: Bad aliens, controlled by evil alien AI "EI"
Game: Lot's of weird stuff, exotic weapons and troops from different alien races

>Tohaa
Lore: good aliens, been trying to stop combined.
Game: Lots of viral, working together (fireteams)

>Haqqislam
Lore: Lit. "New islam", led by "quest for knowlege", only control 1 planet but have the best medicine in the sphere and have control over a recource used to create "cube" memory backups
Game: Cheap troops and dirty tricks, lots of camo with a small amount of higher tech. Tons of smoke and some cool impersonation gimmicks. (warning, totally feels like you're playing taliban vs army)

>>53073783
Oh yeah almost forgot
>Nomads
Lore: nomads who live off 3 gigantic spaceships. Basically all degenerates who either steal, have body-mods, and all sorts of crazy stuff.
Game: Dirty tricks, but more focused on extremely specialized units. Decent tech and decent access to smoke.

>>53073810
Aleph?

>>53073818
Fuck sorry too tired for this

>Aleph
Lore: super-AI that runs a lot of behind the scenes stuff for multiple factions. Has made android recreations of several promonent historical figures like achillies.
Game: standard aleph is mostly robots and some other specialized units. Very high tech. Has a subsection devoted to achillies and other greek soliders that operate a lot differently and use fireteams.

>>53067853
>Possbily even just a card game.
That'd be just the dumbest idea ever.

>>53073873
You're cool. Those were good summaries my friend.

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>>53068733

>>53036782
Been keeping up with this on instagram, good job my dude

>>53073783
>Tohaa
>Lore: good aliens, been trying to stop combined.

Only good as much as they are trying to use the Human Sphere as a meat shield. And outright caused Ariadna to lose contact.

Also Nomads are not focused on extremely specialized troops, if anything their versatility is one of their biggest strengths. Their big weakness is basically a glass jaw and no really high end beaters like Achilles, Hac Tao, Charontinid etc.

>>53072633
PanO likes brute force, they've got some fancy high tech tools to accommodate that but at the end of the day it all comes back to murdering everyone with guns.

Yu Jing is the closest thing to an all rounder. They love their heavy infantry and in theory are specialised in close combat, but they can do a bit of everything.

Ariadna is low low tech. No hacking, no advanced weaponry, no fancy smoke-ignoring visors, very limited access to true heavy infantry and robots, etc. On the other hand they have cheap troops, werewolves, lots of armour piercing weaponry and camouflage all over the place. Also immune to hacking for the most part.

Haqqislam is low tech in some areas and isn't the best in a direct fight, but makes up for it with plenty of dirty tricks and utility. Plenty of cheap irregular units, and by far the best and most numerous doctors in the game.

Nomads love board control and dirty tricks. The best hacking coverage in the game, some really nice defensive options and versatile units. Similar to Haqq in concept, but have very different tricks up their sleeve.

ALEPH is an elite army. Hardy units across the board and lots of high tech toys, but you pay through the nose for them.

Combined Army is pretty similar to ALEPH, but relies less on toughness or stats and more on gimmicks. They have various unique technologies exclusive to them, and have various systems in place to ensure that they rarely back down even after significant casualties or the death of the lieutenant.

Tohaa are fucking weird. They can make fancy teams, a lot of their dudes get 2 wounds, no robots, they get weird alternative bio-hacking, and have many short ranged weapons but few long range ones (at least until the latest book gave them what is essentially a super unit)

>>53074020
Pottery.

Powinienem się wkurzyć, ale serio, to jest kurwa zajebiste.

>>53073984
The reason they do card games is because they cost next to nothing. And players each them up.

Magic is still pretty huge and it doesn't require anywhere near the over head to produce.

>>53067568
Ok, so Lunah and Mushashi confirmed. Who else would you want from regular game in this?
My bet would be on Achilles, McMurrough and Senor Massacre.

>>53073873
>historical
>Achilles

Think about that for a few seconds. All you really needed to say was "and mythological"

History of Infinity

One day, some scientists discover a wormhole leading to a planet covered in rare, valuable metals with a human miscible biosphere. America, Scotland, France, and Russia pool resources to send a colony ship through the wormhole to make money off selling unobtanium.

The ship and wormhole disappears. World economy collapses. Most first-world countries join a super EU (PanOceania) to avoid WW3. China bands with Korea (Yu Jing) to kick Japan around and steal its lunch money, and also to compete with PanO. CIS just kinda doesn't do anything and isn't relevant. Everything kinda relaxes.

One day, some AI project manages to develop a true artificial consciousness, named Aleph. Aleph asks its dad if it can merge with the internet. Dad says no. Aleph says "Woops", turns every toaster into a botnet, hacks the planet, and decides to reroute every single business and delivery truck to end global warming, food and water shortages, and pretty much every other resource scarcity. This offended many people.

Aleph asks its dad if he can build a colony ship. Dad says no. Aleph says "Woops" and reraouts supplies into a robot facility to create a colony ship and colonizes a planet successfully. This offended many people.

Anti-AI zealots said "Aleph, please stop reading my browser history" and Aleph said "No". So they bought three giant ships and decided to live in space (Nomads).

Many muslims decided that they were tired of living in caves and getting bombed, so they built a colony ship and only invited people with college degrees (Haqqislam). This offended many terrorists, who were now stuck on earth.

Eventually people go back to that first planet (Dawn) again to get unobtanium, but they find that the first colony ship made it, but was stuck in stasis for a century or two. PanO and Yu Jing go to war over it, but Alpeh says they're not allowed to start a war, or he'll publish their browser history.

Cont.

>>53076471

Aleph says "I'm going to put a base on Dawn so I can run things and keep people from killing each other or dying from resource scarcity". This offended many people. The original Dawn colonists form a government and demand to be recognized as a sovereign nation. Aleph, PO, and YJ say "No". Nomads threaten to reveal PO and YJ's browser history. Aleph says that he already knows about their fucked up porn. Nomads reply with "You only know about the fucked up porn that they let you know about". PO and YJ back down, Dawn colonists are recognized (Ariadna).

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away:

One day, some alien AI project manages to develop a true artificial consciousness, named EI. It overthrows the planet, turns the entire planet into a war machine, and conquers other planets in order help EI evolve into a new form of existence (Combined Army). They meet some artichoke head hive-mind aliens (Tohaa) who use space fungus and body odor to conquer other planets in order to genuinely improve the lives of those races. The Tohaa are attacked by the Combined Army and mostly lose, so they run away.

The Tohaa then find a planet filled with humans, who totally look like they can take nanomachine ghosts and giant, red ape monsters, so they make a worm hole for them. Once the humans send a ship through the wormhole, they capture it to perform experiments, and probably some butt stuff. Now that the Combined army has found the Tohaa again, the Tohaa plan to genuinely uplift the humans into speed bumps as the Tohaa run away again.

What am I forgetting/getting wrong?

>>53076453
yeah, only everyone knows that achiles, just like everyone else from the troian war were real dudes.

>>53076481
There were several other colony ships that didn't make it to Dawn iirc, which explains the very specific nationalities.

Also Aleph and O-12 are separate entities. There's lots of humans in the cool space UN as well, and they do more than manage the big robot.

EI didn't overthrow much of anything. The Ur (the race that created it) originally made another AI called the Artilect and told it to reach space enlightenment. It did so and promptly fucked off to another plane of existence, leaving its creators behind. The EI is the second attempt, but it became obvious that things would be more difficult if the Ur were to come along, so they started conquering buttloads of civilizations to steal their processing power. Somewhere along the line the Ur absorbed themselves completely into the EI in order to transcend more efficiently.

There are some races that are far more likely to reach enlightenment than the Ur are, so when the EI invades them it gets them to build a new AI with their unique perspective, hoping to ride on its coattails if it ends up transcending. Humanity is one of these, so the whole war is probably a character building exercise or some shit like that.

The reason the Tohaa hate CA so much is because they found some lost remnants of an ancient race's cool wisdom, but they decided that it was sacred and nobody should touch it. EI wants to crack that shit open and chug, which they're not really thrilled about.

http://www.data-sphere.net/corvus-belli-release-new-game-aristeia/

So Bostria said it's a board game like we're all guessing. Two players.

>>53076552
But c'mon. Andromeda? Scylla? Sherlock Holmes?

>>53076866
Really looking forward to it. Can't wait to see miniatures it would come with.

>>53076717
>but it became obvious that things would be more difficult if the Ur were to come along, so they started conquering buttloads of civilizations to steal their processing power. Somewhere along the line the Ur absorbed themselves completely into the EI in order to transcend more efficiently.

More like the EI was designed to mirror the Ur's thinking and biases that held them from transcendence the first time. They wanted the EI to take a path that they themselves could follow. So far it's exactly the thing that's preventing the EI from true transcendence.

>so when the EI invades them it gets them to build a new AI with their unique perspective, hoping to ride on its coattails if it ends up transcending
Nope. After the Nemesis debacle rival AIs are killed on sight.

>>53076982
>After the Nemesis debacle rival AIs are killed on sight.
Except for the carefully monitored and very limited that are part of Transcendence Projects. It wants to make a bunch of new Artilects and study how they reach transcendence, so it can try piece together what it needs to do itself.

>>53076866
Here's to hoping the game gets good miniatures and that those minis get Infinity rules. Otherwise I don't particularly care as of yet, as the trailer tells me nothing.

>>53077263
I'm not really expecting miniatures, except maybe if they bundle one as a preorder exclusive. Looks to me like it could be something along the line of the Spartacus board game but is more likely using cards and counters in some kind of deck building.

Then again it could be all conjecture.

I feel like I need a refresher. What are the usual counters to McMurrough? I feel like I'm missing something. I gifted my friend and usual opponent the model and now he's doing so much against me. That movement 6-4, armor 4, two wounds, and total immunity finds itself in many ways of ripping my core cheerleaders and midfield button pushers to shreds by surviving until turn two. Even my cornerguard close combat specialists seem to only hold him off at bay for an order or two, surviving most of the damage I do.

Perhaps the terrain is too dense as it's pretty hard to snipe him turn one, or I need to start fielding TR bots again.

>>53077966
It's totally not going to use cards. There's literally zero reason for that.

>>53078533
What faction do you play? Knowing which will make it easier to give advice.

>>53078701
The art that they showed looks like the kind of thing you'd find on a card for you character. Again, just conjecture. I don't see a reason why they'd make it a mini miniatures game, looks more like a side project to me, meant to expand their roster of products they make.

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>>53078783
How do you imagine moving cards on this board?
Moreover, why the fuck would a company, famous for their miniatures, make a game without miniatures? Who is going to play it?
>The art that they showed looks like the kind of thing you'd find on a card for you character.
Wow, an actual illustrations? That was never seen before! By the way, cards for characters doesn't mean that there won't me any minis.

>>53076481
A lot.
First, the New Space Race and NeoColonial Wars. The reason PanO got so big. Second, Corregidor was launched way before Bakunin and Tunguska, maybe before even colonizing Neoterra. Third, I believe all that happened even before ALEPH was made, but I may be wrong (I don't remember if Joan was around for NeoColonial Wars or not). I'd have to consult RPG calendarium.

>>53078755
That's the deal, I switch up factions pretty often but the results the same. I've been playing a mix of Vanilla Haqqislam, QK, Generic Yu Jing, and JSA.

The usual thing that happens is turn one I do the usual things like set up board control, push some buttons, and do classified is possible, of course shooting targets I can, assassinating backline cheerleaders or certain power pieces like the suspected Lt or an intruder if possible with guys like a fiday or Oniwaban or people with AD. If I have a chance to shoot McMurrough, which is unlikely as he's the last thing to be deployed and he hides him, he survives it.

Then turn two he moves up, and eventually gets into position where he jumps into B2B with a cheerleader, and does the double chain rifle against 1-2 more pieces, often in complete plaine as day sight front of a person like a Djanbazan HMG in suppression fire specifically meant to deter such a thing. He tanks the normal rolls against him while I dodge the people getting hit with the chain rifle, if the people dodging survive, he cc's the person who he got into B2B to kill them and try again. If I get lucky he takes one wound before he takes away thirty to forty points of my army. I'm not sure if it's luck, or something I'm missing, or that I should 100% commit a single assassin with exotic ammunition to do a suicide run against him with monofilament CC or Viral like with Djabel or Kitsune. Of course, this is with Nomads so there's at least a couple of Koalas protecting the zone. I was looking at some math, if I have the audacity to dodge with such an assassin first so I don't take normal hits from the Koalas to get to McMurrough than my chances of harming get from roughly 50-60 doing a surprise attack to 30-40 doing non-surprise.

Makes me wonder if I'm just incredibly stupid, if terrain's too dense, or that I should get back to fielding Haramaki lists all the time just because of one dude. I think I play reasonably, but I'd like a refresher.

>>53076471
>>53076481
Overall I like the style, a few things are incorrect but the gist is there. As others have said, the EI is the second AI, and its makers eventually hooked themselve sup to the EI as extra processing power. EI sees it needs more processing power so TIME FOR GALACTIC CONQUEST. YOU GET ENLIGHTENMENT, YOU GET ENLIGHTENMENT, EVERYBODY GETS ENLIGHTENMENT whether you want it or not.

Ariadna was also recognized as a power thanks to Haqq (who also helped the Nomads in a similar fashion). Because they control the spice...silk, they will blue ball everyones immortality. Speaking of which, should probably mention cubes.

I would definitely hit up the RPG timeline, and maybe the old N2 book. The only thing I really think needs to be added is cubes because immortality is a pretty big deal.

>>53078820
I'll provide my reasoning as to why I'm not expecting miniatures besides a pre-order bonus.
>It's confirmed as a boardgame, not an alternate skirmish wargame, that's more casual
>Most board game players don't like assembling tiny fiddly metal minis just so they can play, that'd be harder to market
>it's due to be released late 2017, with the earliest tease being it as an idea thrown around in 2016
>they've had a shortage of designers last year, making both designs for new characters like revolver dude and cape dude with pet robot and models for this game seems unlikely
>I'm still remembering how there are no models or dossiers for the Alive group or blackjacks, seems out of character to design these new models if there's an expressed shortage of design work
>CB has an expressed preference for keeping things high quality and local (to Spain), when they do outsource it's to companies based in developed countries like UK or US like with Antenociti and waresnal (not going to debate the "development status of Poland), making low quality plastic miniatures seem unlikely to me
>I don't think it'll take the "big slot" of a summer release like Icestorm or the USA pack, as that will likely be with the Spec-Ops line they confirmed the Nexus will release with, which already has a dossier, and/or Acheron Falls
>They use Hexagon patterns on fraking everything, but if it really is a preview of the board, then it is still considerable that they'd do something like a cardboard token with a plastic stand to represent characters, with cards with illustrations to give them stats and whatnot.
>All the "illustrations" seem character highlighting, more in style with a solo card than part of a booklet. I mean, seriously, look at that cobra with Lunah.
>They've been doing relatively offbeat stuff at CB like self publishing that Manga, or those mugs
>So what's cheaper and marketable seems to be cards and cardboard to me, but again that's conjecture, it can still like you said.

http://infinitythegame.com/article.php?id=318
New article.

Some highlights:
"With a mercenary character it is not in our interests to give her a kit that is redundant within her faction; she must add something that makes the faction grow, providing a different way of playing, but preferably something that makes her an option instead of a must.
And that is what happened with Major Lunah, even though it is true that Haqqislam already has Snipers with Viral Ammo, and camouflaged troops, it is not quite as true for the Imperial Service. And while you could argue that this is not vital for the Sectorial, it does provide certain variety and a different play style, which is always good for the game."

So she's got camouflage, that's a decent sign.

"To avoid monotony and to keep a bit of sense of novelty and surprise among the community, we have decided from time to time to release new profiles and rules that will come in future books."

OMG, just give us the stats already

There's some cat people in Aristeia! apparently.
I bet no catboys.

>>53080845
For the characters, we can probably expect plastic tokens, like the micro art studios silhouette markers. I also expect a pre-order mini.

>>53082316
Doesn't Imperial service already have a TO camo sniper?

Snorecors, what were you doing?

>>53085637
Ninja sniper technically, but sniping goes against everything the Ninja was built for.

Is sealing minis required?

>>53085637
I mean, it's probably just regular camo.
>>53085757
Only if you mind scratches and repair jobs.

>>53033589
Are ORCs that bad? I find theyre a pretty versatile mid cost HI if you need to bulk up a list. Sure they get outshone by the other (more expensive) HI but you do get a value for points.

>>53086343
I don't play PanO, but my guess is that it's probably worth more to grab 2 cheaper units than a single ORC?

>>53086343
They're okay. There are just better things. A lot like Shang Ji really, but not as severe since a bunch of PanO's big dudes come with frenzy. Decent budget HI to stick an HMG on, especially since it can be lieutenant.

Not sure why people get so down on Bolts and Orcs, one is mildly inefficient and the other is uninteresting but has a niche.
There's heaps of shit more worth complaining about, like Sukeuls. Seriously, whose idea was the versatile mimetic linkable 2 wound BS13 HMG/ML/K1-combi-specialist-lieutenant? Because I'd like a word with them.

>>53086404
They pay a premium for muh BS14. Going down, Knights are more diversely equipped, and in many cases are as affordable or affordabler. Going up, the difference between basic BS14 and TO Camo BS15, for 24 points, is staggering.

There's a recent criticism that ORCs are taxed at PH14, but I don't think that's a reasonable point; all basic HI have PH14 except Morats, but Morats (except Datz) are always shit. The real tax seems to be BS14 itself. Mobile Brigada, by way of contrast, are 1 BS less, two points less, but gain Courage and WIP13. I'd take the Brigada every time in PanO.

ORCs aren't without value (or fans), but that little tickle of points throws him off for most players.

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>>53086653
>who's idea
Mine.

>>53086708
An ORC with HMG costts 9 more points than a Zuyong with HMG, yet the Zuyong does 90% of what that same ORC can accomplish.

Heck for 5 points less I can bring an
Automedkit.

Zuyong are PH 12 though

>>53086735
Fuck you Ectros were about to be worthwhile. I just wanted them to not be a bad option, and they almost made it. But no, we couldn't have that, could we? Better throw in the fucking Riptide as a superior alternative to make sure homeboy never makes it off the shelf.

>>53086802
This is really what I point to in the ORC argument. all you really want on a HI is 2W, and a good weapon/specialist status. high BS/PH/ARM come with the package so can't really be complained about. What I really want out of a basic HI is just the 2W giving it a lot more flexibility over a LI for objectives or shooting. Paying a premium for that second wound (and specialist staus) is the problem.

>>53086825
Ectros are still fantastic, best they've ever been. My favourite unit to bring to tournaments. They're a motherfucking black hole for orders. W2, PH14, CC19 and Nanopulser comes up a lot. Sukeuls aren't much better than a Sakiel when the enemy packs visors. You get what you pay for, for sure.

Basic symbionts on the other hand, nah. Fire vulnerability needs to come back hard against basic Symbionts.

>>53086802
Zuyong aren't in PanO though. I'd take a Maghariba over a Guijia any day, but I can't do that in Yu Jing.

All the other HMG HI in the faction are either 20 points more expensive or are frenzied, and no cover after the first kill is bad news when you're meant to be doing lots of killing. Orcs have their place.

>>53086993
ORCs have their place sure, but it isn't an especially good place. The HMG lt option is the only argument I can really see for bringing them since active lts in pano are rare.

I'd argue a nisse HMG does what an ORC hmg does just better and provides wider coverage from MSV2.

>>53086976
>Sukeuls aren't much better than a Sakiel when the enemy packs visors
That's just a lie. HMG range advantage aside, unless the enemy army consists entirely of MSV troops mimetism is always a top tier skill. It's what makes Tiger Soldiers the best drop troops, Nisses the best MSV2 (apart from maybe Intruders with their camo), and Q Drones the best TR remotes.

Tbh Ectros are pretty good post HSN3, I just don't like this weird wishlist unit taking its turf.

>Fire vulnerability needs to come back hard against basic Symbionts.
Agreed. I'd give 1 wound symbionts the old instakill rules, while multiwound models and maybe MI keep the new rules. Nikouls were always annoying shits but an inability to burn them out takes it up to 11.

>>53087044
Nisse has more utility and is better in most FtF rolls, but 2 wounds is a big jump over 1. One lucky crit won't stop an Orc's fun forever.

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>>53087325
>Sukeul BTFOs Sakiel even with enemy visors
Nope. At that point, the Sukeul is paying 12 points for BS+1. People don't ONLY take the HMG, either. The K1 Combi is my favourite, as it is. But a Sakiel gets a lot of work done with Viral, Spitfire, and Light Rockets.

Since it may need to be said, the Sukeul loses Mimetism on the first Wound. A lot of Tohaa players (and opponents) miss the debuffs that can happen on Inactive Symbiont profiles.

What's wrong with the Ectros now? HMG+Nano gives decent range bands, and 3 wounds at 3 armor isn't anything to sneeze at; especially with that PH 14. It's not like they're 60 points or anything; I'd definitely run them over Mobile Brigadas.

Sakiels are great and all, but frenzy means they lose cover bonuses if their Triad dies (providing they kill someone). Ectros are considerably tankier; I don't feel like they step one each other's toes too much.

>>53087325
Yeah, 2w is still a lot of utility, but in the case of "I want a heavy hitting offensive HMG but can't afford a Swiss/Aquila, then I think nisse would take precedence over an ORC.

In the case where you need a LT or want a troop to sit in surpressive near the center of the board or something, and also can't afford more, then ORCs fill that role.

>>53087466
>Since it may need to be said, the Sukeul loses Mimetism on the first Wound
True, but mimetism makes that first wound significantly harder to land, and they're still highly dangerous without it. Even the K1 combi remains really good, partially thanks to stealth.

>A lot of Tohaa players (and opponents) miss the debuffs that can happen on Inactive Symbiont profiles.
I can assure you I don't. It's why I love/hate the Nikoul so much. That dude is exactly as much of an annoying bitch on the second wound as he is on the first.

I wouldn't even compare them to Sakiels, really. They're totally different units. Sakiels are no frills short range attack units with some basic specialist options, while Sukeuls are either long range killers or short range combat specialists with an anti-armour weapon. Sukeuls pay for either range or versatility, depending on the loadout. Hell, you can even get a nullifier combat specialist or lieutenant combat specialist for extra versatility.

>Sukeul BTFOs Sakiel even with enemy visors
I didn't say that. I said that against any non-visor troop (the vast majority) mimetism gives the Sukeul a big advantage. Against visors I'd either lay down Makaul-brand bullshit smoke and get close with a different unit or I'd take my chances with a regular old BS13 burst 5 HMG.