/anrg/ - Android Netrunner General

Test.

All right then... after not being able to create threads, now I can't post images/pdf documents.

Anyway

>>53002620

I've actually really liked Bloodletter in TD. I think it's fairly honest as far as sentries go. The price you pay as a runner is real, but you can still get through. Out of TD, I wonder... but then that's where the Skorpios ID ability comes to the rescue.

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>>53008993
Maybe some blocker is fucking up with the web uploader? Also have you tried clearing the cache?

Bloodletter seems godsend for gearchecking. Until now I think either it was Jinteki ice or just 4+ cost.

>>53009158

"Secure Connection Failed" error. Will have to investigate, but not tonight.

Oh, well can't post the pdf, so here, fo those interested:

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/62/f4/62f4fc98-0ef7-4a24-af2a-48f773f69782/adn-2017-limited-info-sheet.pdf

>Bloodletter seems godsend for gearchecking. Until now I think either it was Jinteki ice or just 4+ cost.

Gave some pretty good results in TD... I had a game where all I had to put on R&D was a single Bloodletter, and the runner went for a Medium R&D headlock trying to outpace my rush by sacrificing stack cards... did manage to snatch 6 points, but then lost breakers in the process, which allowed me to close the game.

Wondering about Charlatan in TD context. Being able to threaten remotes with it is far from insignificant against rush. Really expensive though, both in install - setting you back - and in use.
I want to liek the card, but it's hard.

>>53009468
I see Charlatan as a Crypsis equivalent from TD.
Upside, you probably save a lot of credits if multisub ICE is around.
Downside, Corp has a lot of control over what you can use Charlatan on.

Crypsis might be expensive and click intensive, but so is Charlatan and you have more control over Crypsis.

>>53008993

Why not Naked? It seems like anytime someone puts them Naked on Jinteki and I trash them, it's a "bad idea." But if I do the same, they trash them.

I seriously don't get the Corp side economy. I can get short-bursts and have them set-up for rez'ing ICE, but that's the thing: Once rez'd, I'm poor and there's no way to get back up like Runner's Magnum Opus pumping.

It's probably why I struggle with building Corp decks: There's like 5 different things to factor in compared to Runner's "get these breakers, have an economy condition, boom done."

>>53009793

Good analogy.

Cool thing about Charlatan is: bypass effect and not a program (are we to expect bypass-triggered effects runner side, I wonder?).

Trouble is, the most interesting targets to bypass in TD +Core are hight str (if only: on encounter effect ICE) which doesn't really make it an interesting proposition.

>>53009915
>Once rez'd, I'm poor and there's no way to get back up like Runner's Magnum Opus pumping.
Core-wise, you have access to Melange Mining Corp. If you rez a piece of ICE the runner needs to get the appropiate icebreaker. If you have MMC protected by that ICE then you have a few turns of setting up some money.
In general though, you don't want to rez something that would leave you that kind of exposed unless there's some you get in return.

Besides, while Magnum Opus is good over the baseline, I don't like it all that much. I prefer Day Job and Liberated accounts over it. And Temujin of course.

>>53010010
Agreed, I don't like Charlatan all that much.

>>53009915

Did you misquote? Was this about the PAD Campaign conversation from last thread?

Corp econ is a bit weird. You need to know to juggle with limited resources that are from the get go within reach of your opponent, and make an informed bet on where and when it's most efficient to spend. When to rez ICE and when to let the runner enjoy a free access. When to tempt the runner into trashing things and when to put things so as they may not be immediately trashed.

You also need to know how to bluff, how to manipulate threat thresholds. What you can do when sitting on 15 credits isn't what you can do when sitting on 5, and the runner will have to respect the possible consequences of what you could do with that money.
I actually got quite a few kill wins in the TD campaign, with the runner forced between a rock and a hard place by rush in ways you can't really manipulate that easily anymore with full card pool. Runner being too rich and secured.

(Rushing a Graft to 2 credits in the bank turn 2, then following turn going Beanstalk Royalties -> Hedge Fund -> IPO with your tutored cards is a pretty great feeling.)

>>53002620
>>53008993

How's this?

Seidr Laboratories: Destiny Defined

Agenda (9)
3x Accelerated Beta Test
3x Elective Upgrade
3x Successful Field Test

Asset (9)
3x Adonis Campaign
3x Marilyn Campaign
3x PAD Campaign

Upgrade (3)
2x Experiential Data
1x Mason Bellamy

Operation (11)
2x Archived Memories
3x Biotic Labor
3x Hedge Fund
3x IPO

Barrier (6)
3x Eli 2.0
3x Wall of Static

Code Gate (5)
1x Enigma
1x Tapestry
3x Weir

Sentry (6)
3x Bloodletter ●●●●● ●
3x Ichi 1.0

6 influence spent (max 15, available 9)
21 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)

From what I'm seeing, Bloodletter will let them through but at the cost of trashing. So put those on R&D, HQ, and Archives since they aren't really "remote protection" (IMO),

Ichi is put on a remote/scoring server for the sake of "don't do that again" while maybe covering a PAD and Adonis.

Eli 2.0 on Remotes
Wall of Static on a Remote and HQ + R&D for a quick "yeah, no you're not getting in" rez.

Tapestry is put on HQ to try to bounce something non-Agenda (or Agenda?) to R&D if they run last two clicks.

Though, this probably still fails.

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>>53009915
Yeah, corp side econ isn't quite as good as runner econ - never has been, but runner econ also increased in a much more direct and straightforward way.

While occasionally annoying, it's also clear to see why runner econ needs to be that good, and why making corp econ much better would be pretty bad.

Mainly, it's because the corp doesn't have many expenses - outside of trace-based kill decks or if you're playing against denial/ice destruction decks, you actually don't need to be rich.
It's nice, of course, but most decks don't need super-high levels of wealth.

Corp econ does tend to be more bursty, but with assets it's all about making them fall much more in your favour through ice, other assets and upgrades, and the various threats you can muster

>>53010357

Is that supposed to be a TD campaign deck?

>>53010432

TD + 1-Core deck, yes. Not necessarily for the "campaign" but a start for one.

>>53010412
>>53010203
>>53010347

I guess I'm just horrible with Corp in general. Anytime I've tried to Melange behind an ICE, they'll run it and trash it immediately.

So I try to get IPO or Hedge Funds drawn to have a lot of ICE, click +1 credits for the sake of staying above 5-10 Credits and using those 5-10 credits to Rez ICE to try to stop their trashing.

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>>53010469
To be fair, Melange is pretty trash despite how cool it is, and core set econ in general is pretty woeful

>>53010357
Playing TD + Core myself, though I'm using Skorpios

Found Weir to be pretty underwhelming, you probably want more ETR Ice - Maybe Enigmas, or some of the bigger core cards like Tollboth.

If it's a TD Campaign Deck, remember that you've got 3 2-Point Agendas you have to include, so you might need to rework your agenda selection.

>>53010469
>Not necessarily for the "campaign" but a start for one.

Ok, was just checking you didn't forger to make room for the TD campaign agendas.

>I guess I'm just horrible with Corp in general

Don't overstate it, some people have a real hard time rewiring to one side of the game because they naturally fall back on intuitions they got from getting on well with the other side. Perfectly natural.

The corp doesn't play like the runner. You'll just have to find your feet on that.

I'm thinking three Biotics might be overkill. And you might want some draw in that deck (I wonder about Anonymous Tip -> Successful Field Test in TD; to bad I seem to be the only, no one tested it yesterday).

Thing is, even if playing Glacier, you don't have the luxury of waiting for your board state to reach some humongous state before going for score attempts. You have to go for early rush-like attempts trying to capitalize on those to progress.

As such I'm thinking your deck needs a bit more straight ETR ICE (maybe one less Weir, one more Enigma; one Bloodletter and Ichi off, two Autoturret in? just indicative, don't take it to the letter). Econ-wise, if this doesn't get you going, I don't know what will. You're in a pretty good position.

>>53010710

Someone recommended Tollbooth and while the -3 Credit encounter cost is nice, it doesn't seem that "gear check"-y once they get a Code Gate breaker out as they get faster economy than I do.

I guess I could drop 2 and add 2 Enigma's instead, but those don't seem too strong once they know they're there and have the credits.

It feels like once the runner is set up in 2 turns, I'm pretty much losing no matter what ICE selection I have.

>>53010632

Trash is really not a word I'd associate with MMC (or only in the "must-trash" sentence). In the proper deck, that card wins games.

>>53010710
>Found Weir to be pretty underwhelming

The card trash is not half bad when you can threaten a kill. Forcing the runner to lose time drawing (on top of tag removals) can help. But yeah, I don't know about it...

>>53010777
>It feels like once the runner is set up in 2 turns, I'm pretty much losing no matter what ICE selection I have.

How does the runner do that and still have money?

>>53010762

Tollbooth is pretty cood because of the tax. 3 Credits whatever the breaker solution and 5 str is nothing to laugh at.

>>53010840
Yeah, that was my thought, and I'm running a Skorpios Tag'n'Bag deck, but it just never seemed to really pull it's weight.

Core + TD only means I'm a little strapped for cash at times, and spending 3 credits to Rez a card that is a minor inconvenience at most just never really felt like it was worth it.

Ran it for a couple of games then dropped them for more Data Ravens and Colossi

>>53010866

By having Magnum Opus pumping at least 6 credits versus my 2 ICE server that let's them through.

I honestly don't know. Maybe I'm playing Corp all wrong trying to get to like 15-20 credits and when they run my 2-3 ICE deep server, rez'ing all those to speed-bump them while they just shrug it off.

I've been told to try to factor in the runner's credit pool for scoring windows, but I guess I'm just not seeing the scoring windows because it's like "holy shit, they get like 6 credits while I can only get 2-3 unless I mandatory draw an IPO or Hedge Fund for some credits."

I guess I...

>>53010762
> Thing is, even if playing Glacier, you don't have the luxury of waiting for your board state to reach some humongous state before going for score attempts.

...I need to be more aggressive, yeah. I'm trying to play this as a sandbag/slow-roll attempt of building credits and putting 4-5 ICE servers up and they just run through it quickly while I have no quick-cash options like Magnum Opus or Sure Gamble or Armitage Codebusting to rely on on stopping them.

> (maybe one less Weir, one more Enigma; one Bloodletter and Ichi off, two Autoturret in? just indicative, don't take it to the letter).

That sounds reasonable. I'll have to try it on Jinteki later tonight.

>>53010935

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but in two turns seem to imply that they're ready to run full by turn three... where did they get the cards, the money the install clicks?

>>53011043
Yeah pretty much this. Played a game where my opponent started with 2/3 of his rig in his opening hand plus a special order to tutor for the last one, and a sure gamble for econ - pretty much an ideal starting hand.

Even with this, it took him 3-4 turns to get set up, and I could still tax him to slow him down. Was a rough game, but not unwinnable had I not made a bunch of mistakes.

>>53011043

By two turns, I don't mean game start. I mean they get their RIG and conditions set up and can just run wild while I'm kinda screwed on trying to defend myself.

Runner's economy allows them to get the credits to blow through Corp defenses and the Corp can only hope to "speed bump" them enough to be annoying. It's hard to explain the feeling, but it feels like the Corp can't honestly keep up in defending itself against most runners.

I mean I can "tax" them but not enough to make them go "damn, that's a heavy server. I need at least a turn or two to attempt to run it."

Magnum Opus and 3 icebreakers cost around 18-19 credits and 4 clicks, not to mention extra MU and the draw to find it. It's a really slow setup and more slow if you try to break tollbooth or ichi every turn with it.
And then you have Aggressive Secretary, SEA source, Snare and Junebugs.

>>53011201
This. My answer to a full rig and a rich runner is to bait them into running into an Aggro Sec or Snare, or feed them an agenda so I can punish them with Hunter Seeker or something.

>>53011304
Yeah - there's no such thing as an unbreakable server, but you really don't want to hit a trap when you're all set up

>>53011137
>It's hard to explain the feeling, but it feels like the Corp can't honestly keep up in defending itself against most runners.

That's exactly it. The corp *can't*. In the long run, your chances to keep the runner out fall to zero.

You have to create windows, both your and the runner's econ will move during the game. Forcing the runner to run at the most inopportune time. When the runner has just installed a piece of gear, when lower on liquidity, it's time to strike.

Having assets that force the runner to run when not opportune helps. In the TD context, I'm thinking more people should give ambushes another look.

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If you get tired of being poor you can play GRNDL.

>>53011519
I really want to try a GRNDL deck with Arms Factories, Illicit Sales and Hostile Takeovers for immense Bad Pub and so much money. Probably terrible, but it seems like fun.

>>53010357

If the runner is rich enough to spam TME/DDM on RnD, you might want to invest in some Snares!. Actually got a flatline from the runner hitting 2 of them in a maxed DDM run.

And if going into campaign, save up creds for biotic 3/2s, since you are probably only going to have that remote in the early game at best.

Also, if you have spare inf, a SanSan can be a surprise hit.

>>53012378

Well, I had a naked PAD, 4 ICE'd Adonis with Experiential Data, 1 ICE on R&D and HQ, stupidly miscounted the 4 ICE server and they were going to get the other agenda in HQ eventually to win.

So I'm not sure Snare! would help. I'm just probably playing stupid as Corp and Jinteki doesn't have enough players to actually get this deck practice with.

>>53010357
Spot on with the ice placements. As one anon said, Weir is underwhelming unless you're actively going for a flatline after the facecheck, so going down to 1 and Enigma going to 2 should be fine. Ice Walls can probably do what you're intending to for Wall of Static better. I'm not sure what you can do with the 3rd Ichi, might be better as something else.

Here's my first draft for comparison:

Core42 (49 cards)
Seidr Laboratories: Destiny Defined
-- agenda (11 cards)
3 Accelerated Beta Test
2 Brain Rewiring
3 Paper Trail
3 Successful Field Test
-- asset (7 cards)
2 Adonis Campaign
2 Marilyn Campaign
2 PAD Campaign
1 Project Junebug *
-- ice (16 cards)
1 Archer **
2 Bloodletter ****
2 Eli 2.0
1 Executive Functioning
1 Heimdall 1.0
2 Ice Wall **
2 Ichi 1.0
1 Tapestry
1 Tollbooth **
2 Viktor 1.0
1 Enigma
-- operation (8 cards)
2 Archived Memories
1 Biotic Labor
3 Hedge Fund
2 IPO
-- upgrade (7 cards)
2 Black Level Clearance
2 Experiential Data
2 Mason Bellamy
1 SanSan City Grid ****

Agenda suite for forcing 4 steals to win, Archer because I have 1 pointers, Executive Functioning because it's a pretty devastating early facecheck, Heimdall and Tollbooth as my expensive taxing ice, Viktor as intentionally porous ice to trigger Seidr. Black Level for forcing brain damage, and Sansan to help with scoring. Junebug for capitalizing on 2 brain damage runners.

>>53010469
>Anytime I've tried to Melange behind an ICE, they'll run it and trash it immediately.
Hopefully you've learned of the trick of rezzing at the start of your turn so that you could always fire it once? This applies to all of the campaigns as well.

As a side, don't feel too bad about losing on Jinteki, if you're facing randoms then most decks there are hyperefficient and will rip apart any deck that hasn't been played 50 times.

Part of me kinda wan to try for Brain Rewiring double Neural Emp kill.

It's too stupid not to be tempting.

>>53012840

Lightly iced central servers is generally not a good thing, esp if the runner can spam multi access on RnD and Siphons on HQ.

If anything, lots of runner expect HB/Seidr to biotic out stuff, so they hammer centrals before that happens. Especially so if the remote is overprotected.

>>53013278

So what is the gameplan? I had 3 ICE in the starting hand, 1 PAD and a Hedge Fund. I drew an Adonis. I put the ICE down. Start second turn, put an Adonis behind the remote. Get another ICE, put ICE on Adonis to make them think it's an Agenda to try to run. Throw down a Hedge Fund. They don't run, so I rez the Adonis since it's "properly protected" and throw another ICE on it to try to set up a scoring server. Put the Pad down, drew another Pad put it down and click to credit.

Next turn, draw another ICE, put it on the server to be 4 deep. It was Ichi 1.0, Wall of Static, RotoTurret, Ichi 1.0.

Adonis runs out, I draw a Biotic, install Successful Field Test and stupidly advance it 3 times forgetting it's a 4/2.

They run.

I rez the first three and had like 1 credit left because I stupidly forgot I didn't have enough and thought RotoTurret would stop them when their Mammon was 6 power counters + boosting.

That fucking card (Mammon) is giving me fits. Anytime someone installs it, I should probably just auto-concede because there's like no way I can trigger a trash on it to keep it away.

>>53014201
Jesus you sound like a joy to play against

>>53014201
The big play mistake here is the Biotic 4/2. An unadvanced card in a three deep server would've usually detered anyone from running, letting you advance it 4 times next turn. The second subtle play mistake is not doing the math. You could've saved a decent amount of credits by not rezzing everything if you knew they could get in anyway. Rezzing just the Ichi or Wall of Static would've decently taxed them, since they spent 6 credits for Mammon Counters and 3 - 4 to pump. Rototurret is ultimately gearcheck ice, and once a sentry or AI breaker is down, it's usually not worth rezzing. If AI breakers are being a pain, Hortum can keep them out when you advance it 3 times, while still being a respectable 4 to break with Gordian. Also, Mammon's strength and weakness is knowledge. Having unrezzed cards will fuck around with the runner's math during a run, the key is to rez stuff when you can hit them hardest.

Simply put, do the math.

You'll iron out your mistakes eventually, just keep at it.

>>53014460

The fact that Mammon is basically "Oh I see all your rez'd ICE and can break it easily" is what is making me salty more than anything. Most other breakers have a catch economy cost.

>>53014566
> You could've saved a decent amount of credits by not rezzing everything if you knew they could get in anyway.

I guess that's where I'm tripping up. I *want* to rez because it means they have to encounter and spend. If I'm not rez'ing they just get to waltz into a 3-4 deep server and steal the agenda and I get nothing out of it.

>>53014757
>If I'm not rez'ing they just get to waltz into a 3-4 deep server and steal the agenda and I get nothing out of it.
Yeah, it's a pretty counter-intuitive line of thinking to get into, in the above case it's usually just better to cut your losses instead. Rez maybe the Ichi, then give them the agenda. Rezzing is not always the answer if it doesn't change the math, or if they can break it more than 50% cheaper than for you to rez it.

>>53014757

It sounds like your econ isn't downright terrible if you can rez all the ice at one shot. Even so, the runner is usually at the advantage if he can set up fast enough, so it might be a good idea to try to rush out early agendas before they can find their breakers.

Often, running into a ETR ice, then finding and installing the right breaker, then running again, means that even if they are successful, they would likely need a turn just to recover. You could use that interval to make another server with a different type of ice and dare them to do it again.

Of course, if that doesn't work (godlike runner hands), you might want to consider traps like Junebugs. With limited recursion runner-side, once they eat some damage (or flatline), they may hesitate running another conveniently placed installed + 2 adv card.

>>53014978

I had two Ichi's, the one was at the root/very bottom. So it was like Ichi, Wall of Static, Roto-Turret, Ichi. If I didn't rez the Roto-Turret, I could've rez'd the Ichi but hit 0 credits.

Which would've still been dumb to do, but you know... trying to stop them mentality.

>>53015099

If that agenda was a junebug/secretary instead, it would have been hilarious, although you would have to not rez one of the ice in order to afford to trigger said trap.

>>53015216
Had this happen last night, it was beautiful

>Both of us on 4-5 Agenda Points
>Install Aggro Sec into remote behind Fully Advanced Colossus, Fully Advanced Hortum and Hailstorm, with K.D. Lang in the same server.
>Next Turn, 3x Advance Aggro Sec, runner gets nervous

>Runner has heaps of credits, full breaker suite + Mopus
>Mopus x3, Run on remote
>Trashes one of their breakers to get thru one of the ice, pays a crapton to get through the rest.
>Rez Mr Stone and K.P. Lynn, they take a tag and go down to 3 cards in hand.
>Runner accesses Aggro Sec, assumes fetal position, tries not to cry.

>Next turn, topdeck Scorched Earth.

>>53015407

A most excellent way to end the game.

So yeah, if nothing else works, play the bluffing game and see how the runner sweats.

What's a good alternative to lotus field in a PU deck now that the can't be lowered clause is less relevant?
Or is the presence of datasucker still a good enough reason to run them?

>>53016130
Yog Sifr is good reason to run them. Slow them down. Although it looks like BO is getting more prevalent, right? And in that case it doesn't matter one way or the other.

TD UFAQ is up.

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/set/td/rulings

>Errata for this card will be issued in the next FAQ.

>>53017247
Many questions, why for some you resolve as much as you can, but with others you just don't? For instance, breaking subs with Savant compared to False Leads.
I never thought of bypassing twice the same ice. Does that applies to inside job too? What about femme?
It's nice we have a clarification on Charlatan.

>>53017483
>Does that applies to inside job too?

Not that I'm aware of.

> What about femme?

"When you install Femme Fatale, choose an installed piece of ice. When you encounter that ice, you may pay 1[credit] per subroutine on that ice to bypass it.

So, (in the FAQ's case) if you ran a server and it put you back at the start and you re-run into the innermost piece of ICE that is Femme Fatale Bypass picked: Yes, you'd be able to do that as there is no "one-time use."

Compare to Inside Job:

"Make a run. Bypass the first piece of ice encountered during this run."

I get what you're saying and if they FAQ it that way, okay, but from how I read it: You'd encounter that ICE/outermost the "First" time, then go through the server and bounce back to the start. Thereby you'd run into a "second" time despite it being the "first ICE you encounter" it wouldn't truly be the *first* you encounter anymore.

S. Fishing works because it's still the "innermost piece of ICE" on the server, so when you run into a second time, it's ability would kick in due to server ICE positioning. Same with Femme because there's no "first time encounter" on that ability wording.

>>53017483
>breaking subs with Savant compared to False Leads
False Lead has "if able". So if you're not able to make them lose two clicks, you can't use it.

>>53018246
>>53018426
Thanks, I see it clear now.

>>53011304

With Skorpios around, all the shapers are jamming in as many sac cons as they can on the expectation of rig-shooting. So that tactic is not quite as effective vs them, although its still great vs crims.

>>53019818
Only TD decks, the rest are not so wary of rigshooting.

>>53020385

Lots of Smoke decks are pretty paranoid about Skorpios though, and now using scavenge even triggers it as well.

>>53020620
Yeah, Scavenge against Skorpios is a losing proposition

>>53019818

Joke's on them. My Shaper deck packed Sac Cons before Skorpios-mania!

... Mostly because it's great for keeping Clots around anyway.

So for everyone that has been playing the Terminal Directive campaign, would you like to see another box set like this in the future?

Personally, I'd love to see something that actually changed the world a little bit more, but I'm enjoying the campaign, and hope that they do another legacy set like this. It'll definitely be a great way to keep casual players interested, I know I'll be getting some more casual friends into the game with this expansion. It's also fun to see how wacky the game can get in the weird vacuum of a core set, and some weird imbalanced rules for pure fun.

I also love the fact that Skorpios is a natural Ark Lockdown (sort-of) that happens every turn. Time to get to work on my uber-mill Skorpios deck full of rig shooter cards and meat damage.

>>53026411
>would you like to see another box set like this in the future?

Only if it's replayable. Stickers and tearing cards up: Noooooo ma'am for $40? Hell no.

>>53026467
Agree with you there. I've been using sticky notes and a photocopy of the PAD as an alternative way to keep everything pristine.

>>53026411

Definitely. >>52993898

I love how the format allows to have a more focused game thanks to keeping out what, to me, have been problem cards (SMC, Clone Chip, Jackson - too bad about the Core anarch problem cards, but hey at least they're out of playable factions...). It's also cool to play a game where econ is rebalanced down - look at how costly breaking ICE is using the Shaper/Criminal options... that's *good* for the game. As a runner you *have* to contemplate the choice of letting (a) subroutine(s) fire to keep much needed money in the bank. Which makes for a lot more interesting games.

The reduced pool also helped with the choice paralysis I've seen a few of the more casual players suffering from.

And the crazy campaign cards and secondary objectives make for a very interactive experience, with loads of significant changes between games.

As I said in that other post, need to tighten things up, but as a proof of concept, I think it does an outstanding job.

>>53026645

I don't think I could have put it better myself. This is a great proof of concept. Hopefully the next one has a story that changes based on the runner or corporation that you're playing, I think that would be pretty cool and keep new players invested in the campaign.

The reduced card pool was definitely something that I could really appreciate. It brought me back a few months to when I first started playing with the core set. I can't wait to switch over to the Corp side so that I can score a graft and put SEA Source, and two Scorched Earth's into my hand to set up for the sweet sweet rail-gun combo.

Shadow Net + Brute-Force hack... does it mean you can derez a piece of ICE for zero, whatever its rez cost?

>>53027893
It means you derez a 0 cost ice, for an agenda

>>53028630

I'm trying to find a ruling on that, I thought I remembered something about Psychographics, but it's not it, so still looking.

http://ancur.wikia.com/wiki/X_Variable_Ruling

>>53026467
>>53026508

You can even fit the seperate objective sticker sheets into a sleeve. And the update stickers (esp for the mandatory ones) can always be left out as a reminder of latest effects.

TD Rules Question! Spoilered for TD spoilers.

The Set 8 Objective for Corp says "Steal 1 Agenda Point" -Is this meant to be "Score 1 Agenda Point"? Does it have to be exactly 1 point, or is it intended to be 1 or more?

>>53031653

It should be 'scored' and any agenda scored counts towards the limit (so evidence collection gives 2 pts et al)

>>53031653

This >>53031933

Though my opponent and me chose to take it literally when we played, and as the corp, I found it made things really enjoyable that way.

>>53031978

If it's 10 *agendas* scored rather then pts, then it would extend the campaign by another 3-4 games at minimum rather then 2. Might be good for a drawn out league, not as much for a marathon session.

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>>53014978

It seems to come down to luck and if they hit an ICE without the proper breaker, especially Sentries.

This was a dragout fight until the last turn. Draw the last card on my do or die turn (before being milled next turn) after they miss 3 Agendas that could've won them the game. Elective Upgrade into a 4click Successful Field Test = Comeback win.

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>>53032909

If they literally stopped Sneakdooring, they would've been fine.

>>53032907

Well, worked for us in marathon session, but then, yeah, I wouldn't say it's advisable.

>>53033003

While I'm at it, I quite liked the dynamic introduced by that choice. Changes the calculated risks you're going to take.

>>53032909
>that HQ ice
>that fracter
Woowee.

>>53033634

Yeah, he lost Femme Fatale installing Sneakdoor Beta, uninstalled it, hit Bloodletter and trashed Sneakdoor after (why, I dunno). Ran R&D, lost Corroder, so installed Aurora.

It was a complete mess after that as if he didn't Sneakdoor the game would've been over ages ago. I seriously wouldn't have built up as much of that ICE as I did since he was aggressive.

I have no clue how to win this deck in pure aggression as Economy will be wrecked and while I can rez all the ICE, I go poor in the process and I have to give up at least 4 Agendas or so (which will give them the game) before I swing back.

>>53033873

That installed Femme, BTW is within the last 3 of his Stack. He drew until he found it but it was too late.

>>53033873
You look like you're doing fine honestly, just remember to consider how many credits the runner needs to get through ice before attempting to score, and if the piece of ice is worth installing/rezzing. Wall of Static vs Corroder isn't worth it for example, but against Aurora it definitely is. If they have money, make them run by bluffing out upgrades and assets.

>>53032909
>It seems to come down to luck and if they hit an ICE without the proper breaker, especially Sentries.
It definitely isn't, many wouldn't dare run before getting a killer or decoder down, or if they know they can't be hurt by anything that can be rezzed.

>>53034205

I mean I guess. But it seems like most breakers will blow through before I can set up and then do scoring windows. I can get IPO and Hedge Fund, but rezing 1-2 ICE a turn absolutely wrecks me. I guess I can let them go past but then they get at one of the 2-3 Agendas I have drawn.

Seems like bad luck just absolutely wrecks the deck than the gameplan itself. The gameplan seems solid, getting it to run is the issue.

So I'm gonna assume that Jinteki is anlot of hyper good tournament netdecking shot going on, yeah?

Watched a game and the runner managed to, through a series of cards, do like 5 runs in a single turn and just raped the corp player into submission. It was absurdly brutal.

>>53034485

It's a popular testing place yeah, especially with regionals coming soon.

Still, if you do want to play in the casual room, it might be prudent to indicate non-competitive/jank/intro/returning/TD-only on the game title.

>>53034686

Casual generally isn't Tier 1 decks, but there are assholes that'll use nothing but Asset Spam, CTM in it.

>>53034281
Eh, luck is always a factor, no definitives beyond that, but there are some things that look like luck that are actually just good piloting (avoiding SEAScorched for example). I would actually recommend running against your deck if you can find someone to pilot it, that way you can switch sides and see what sucks when facing it and strengthen that, and look for opportunities for both sides that you can either capitalize on or close off. Strengthening your basics and discovering new ideas by watching Youtube videos is pretty good too.

>>53034686
I just want to make sure that if I'm trying to learn the game I'm not gonna get curbstomped by some netdecking asshat.

>>53035523

If that's the case, it would certainly be a good idea to indicate that you are looking for a learning game on the title, and have a chat with the other guy before starting. Just to (hopefully) avoid any unfortunate 'misunderstandings'.

You might want to ask around on the main chat as well before making/joining a game.

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>>53029301
>>53027893
It's the Eureka ruling you're looking for (itself based on the Donut ruling)
http://ancur.wikia.com/wiki/Eureka_%2B_Angel_Arena_Ruling

>>53034281

In the long run, the runner is usually at the advantage especially if he/she has easy access to creds (MO for core+ decks) anyway, so rushing and/or fast advance are the usual recommended game plans.

FWIW, if you play Weyland, and you got enough ways to tag (especially more then once) it would force the runner to waste time removing them for fear of scorched earth.

>>53036767
Angel Arena was too expensive, but I liked the idea. Maybe if it was "for each power counter you get to see 2 cards, top 1, bottom the other 2." Like a more expensive Mr Li.

>>53037269
Yeah - clickless filtering is pretty cool and neat, but 1 credit a time is way too much

>>53036767

Thanks a lot. I knew that ruling existed, just couldn't find it.

I just finished reading Monitor and it was pretty good. How does the other fiction FFG has put out compare?

>>53039751

My own capsule reviews, for what they're worth:

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/50417445/#q50450898

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/50417445/#q50450874

Still have to get Exodus, was supposed to get it this week, but stealth DJ Krush release is putting me in a a bind.

>>53039751

Only read the original Android novel Freefall, which is essentially the board game as a novel. A decent introduction to that universe as it were.

Were missiles involved in that story?

>>53040482
Missiles in Monitor, or Freefall? I don't remember any in the latter, and there's certainly none in the former. I've also read the Identity trilogy about the bioroid detective, along with Strange Flesh. I'm mostly looking for info about the new brace of fiction that's grown out of modern netrunner since I've devoured all the older stuff.

>>53040478
Monster Hunter sounds interesting. I know dick all about Reina, but her card art makes her look interesting. Will give it a punt.

>>53041109
>the Identity trilogy about the bioroid detective
How is that?

I'd say all 3 of the novellas have their strong and weak points - Monster Slayer is almost like an action movie, but it doesn't have too much in the way of characterisation, while in Monitor not all that much happens and it tries to be a little bigger than it is but the atmosphere is great and the characters all feel pretty real, and Exodus is a bit in-between.

>>53041899
I read the first one, it was well paced for a detective Noir novel but isn't terribly original. I liked how the author handles his relationaship with his partner. Still, it got me hooked enough to buy the second one during last Xmas sale, although I haven't read it yet (too much backlog, Douglas Adams and Joe Abercrombie will fill my next few months)

>>53042327
I've got both of them, but I'm slowly reading Dune atm.
Seeing as you mentioned Abercrombie, have you got Sharp Ends?

>>53042763
No, I usually read them chronological by release order. To see how the author improves his style over time.
That said, I started with Shattered Sea trilogy out of a recommendation, so now I'm all the way back to The First Law.

>>53042857
>so now I'm all the way back to The First Law.
You've not read any of them yet? You're in for a treat. A grim, nasty treat filled with assholes, but a treat nontheless

How's the Shattered Sea trilogy?

>>53042967
Fun, but you can tell it's juvenil fiction because it deals a lot with the coming of age of the characters. Still good though.

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>>53043736
Ah, might give it a pass then - I've kind of grown past coming-of-age stuff.

Saw an interesting deck just now, MaxX, Clan Vengence, Stim Dealer, Stim Implant, Duggars, Brain Cage... fortunately Argus Security knows how to deal with these sort of drugged-up, chromed-up punks before they become a menace to society

>>53045955
It depends on the author. Ender's game is also coming of age and it is still amazing.
Half a King is the less obvious and more interesting. I recommend it.

>>53045955

Looks lovely on both sides.

So has there been an influx of new(-ish) players since the release of TD?

>>53051329

I hope, but I wouldn't bet on it, not that soon after release.

Hell, I don't know how things are where you live, but it was already a cutthroat battle for those that didn't preorder to get the box.

People are still waiting for next batch.

>>53051428

Wow awesome to hear that (strange TD shortage aside). That and the Cache format should hopefully mean a healthy number of players in the years to come.

>>53051900
Cache format?

>>53051974

Cache Refresh, a new offical format supposedly debuting during regionals season. Essentially 1 core + TD + 1 big box of choice (can differ between corp and runner) and last 2 cycles (ie Flashpoint and Mars).

>>53052283

Hopefully that's their answer to the rotation problem until they actually go "lol rotation will be 2-3 cycles instead of 5-6" like now. :/

>>53052283
Oh, neat

>>53052393
After hearing how some Magic players are forced to buy the starter set every year when a new set/cycle is reIeased, I don't think I'd like only 2 - 3 cycles for the official format, especially since in the short term LCGs are a lot more expensive to get into.

>>53052393

Rumor has it that according to Mr Boggs, if this format proves to be popular, it can become more widely used in official events.

>>53052877

All the big boxes are legal in this format, so it's possible for evergreen decks with just those if the packs turn out to mediocre (like Mars so far).

>>53052998
>>53052393 means for Cache Refresh to be a test bed before replacing the regular rotation plan, which I object to. Cache Refresh as a supplement is good for targeting the newer players and giving fresh options for veterans, but replacing the 5 - 6 cycle plan is definitely too short.

>>53052877
> I don't think I'd like only 2 - 3 cycles for the official format,

It'd be Deluxe + Core + 2-3 cycles. Far better than Deluxe + Core + 5-6 cycles that are currently there.

A smaller card pool *is better for balance* plus within 1-2 years, Mumbad's political cards would be rotated out, allowing them to balance the power levels a bit.

>>53053206

idk, 5-6 cycles is an awful lot for anyone. If anything lots of players (even vet ones) probably wouldn't mind faster rotation with 3-4 cycles instead.

>>53053210
>>53053337
Faster rotation will exile the players that can't afford to keep up to date with expansions month to month; you can argue the deluxes exist, but you'd still likely lose to the deck of the week just because you don't have the latest data pack that has the counter to it. 5 - 6 cycles atleasts lets the cards sit around and wait for a chance to shine (Power Tap). Netrunner already has trouble getting players in and making them stay, this would arguably make the players rotate out faster as well.

Difference with Magic here is that players aren't expected to have the whole card pool at hand when building decks and considering opponents.

>>53053783

That's why after Mumbad Rotates out, they hit the game with "Core 2.0" (which has been rumored forever) and nerf the entire game's power levels a bit to rebalance it. Have the problem cards rotate out, rebalance the game and then slow the release schedule down to where they don't need to release 2-3 cycles every year. This would allow sets to breathe, allow them proper time to balance cards, and learn from mistakes.

>>53053842

But on a counter-point: I can understand why they have their cycle release set the way they do: They need the money and if sets sit around, players aren't buying new cards/sets.

Which I'm not sure the business answer is for slower set-releases, but goddamn do I wish they'd copy Wizard's R&D "future book" and have sets planned ahead and be able to see if there would be future issues with certain cards in the cycles and try to work them out BEFORE they release.

Sifr never should've released the way it did, for instance. Same with political assets that don't need ICE covering them.

>>53053783

If players can't 'afford' to keep up, how exactly would having more packs in the rotation pool be of any help? If anything, a lower card pool is *far* more attractive to getting in new players then the current policy.

>>53053842

Didn't Damon himself mention that the core 2.0 decision wasn't his to make? Perhaps it might change with Mr Boggs, but it's still rather unlikely to be anytime soon. Certainly not if it has to compete with L5R premier in the same time period.

>>53053975

I'm not sure. I don't follow the game leads.

I just hope Boggs makes good on his promise of varying the factions up and trying to balance the game. The game has a HUGE "same-deck/faction" problem currently and cycles having a bunch of "dead cards" that don't become good EVER or if they do, it's like 3-4 cycles later.

The game needs better research/development and future sight.

Think there could be a sunny meme deck built around her cloud breakers and recurring deep data mining?

>>53054420

Could work, but paying 4x3 inf for max DDM is pretty brutal.

https://anonimag.es/image/JT9sw7f

>>53053842
That sounds like wishful thinking.

>>53053975
That's what Cache Refresh is for, a short term target for newer players to aim towards thanks to the smaller card pool. Once newer players have gotten through their first two cycles, they'll have the cards to continue aiming for the regular format (which by the way I think needs a name now) while keeping Cache Refresh available as an option if they don't want to get into the larger card pool.

>>53054069
>The game has a HUGE "same-deck/faction" problem currently
That's just as much caused by decks built by the competitive players shutting out other playstyles as it is due to card balancing.

>>53054464
1x4 and 2x2, Planned assault to the rescue.

>>53055412
Forced meme

>>53055452
Standard format probably, since it's the standard

>>53055574

As a crim player, it's amazing how often I forget PA exists.

Goes well with PPVP certainly.

>>53055830
It's good to save on influence, I have it always in mind when playing things like Indexing.

>>53055830
I've noticed there's a few more high-cost events now, and with PPVP coming off the list that's pretty cool.

Well, I assume you can use PPVP for X costs

>>53055452
>That's just as much caused by decks built by the competitive players shutting out other playstyles as it is due to card balancing.

It's that and the fact that a lot of cards are dead-weight. Donut Tagnes?

Some of this is due to power creep, but others are just utterly pointless because there's no "idea" or "combo" or however you want to phrase it for those cards to reasonably work.

So FF goes to the drawing board to try to get people to pick those cards, and like 2-3 cycles later formerly "binder fodder" cards become "somewhat ok, but this new power-creep card (like Temujin) is a MUST INCLUDE!" which impacts the non-competitive game.

It's why a "hard-reset" (more like a soft-one) to jettison the baggage of 5-7 cycles down to 2-3 while keeping the deluxes and core (which don't rotate out) would help. This would allow Fantasy Flight to focus on the "binder fodder" Core, Deluxe cards AND know that the power-creep cards in Mumbad are the only power issues left to where they let those run wild for 2-3 cycles (though they really shouldn't for the health of the game) before they rotate out and the power-level comes back to a reasonable level.

God help them if they're going to balance around "legacy" which has Jackson, Temujin, ParaSifr, etc. bullshit going on. Especially as they seem allergic to actually doing a ban/restricted list (MWL tier-3 is a psuedo-restricted but not a hard one).

>>53056598

Don't see why you can't, since the PPVP 'cred' is being spent after all.

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>>53056667
I don't think "legacy" will be accounted for for balance - that'd be pretty impossible with Jackson if nothing else.

It'll probably be a community thing

>>53056598
Whenever I see PPVP that fucking pen pineapple song starts playing in my head

>>53056667
Donut Taganes + Lovegood, mmmm

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>>53056847
>that fucking pen pineapple song?
?

>>53056991
Shame the best version of Donut will never see play

>>53057076
Lovegood doesnt work with IDs. Would be cool to stop MaxX ability otherwise.

>>53057168
Oh yeah, I'm just saying he'd be cool as an ID, not that he'd work with the good doctor

>>53057076

>not being a mini-faction guy instead

>>53057569
Nah, he's very much a "normal" guy, not a special case like those 3.

I think he's a little too mysterious for the sake of being mysterious, but he's alright.

And I think he's based of a real dude, like the Whizz is, but I'm not sure about that

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>>53057873
I could have just googled it, rather than "I think" - this guy, Jaffer, is an Event Coordinator for Fantasy Flight. This was the photo used for the art

From the effect and the text
>You can find Donut in the park on Thursday afternoons, playing backgammon. You want his attention, the price is always the same: a cup of coffee and a donut. That buys you a seat at the backgammon table, and you have until he beats you to talk business and set the price.

He's clearly a figure in the "runner network" - who else fits into that?
Kati, maybe Oracle May? John Mass?
Possibly the likes of TB and Aesop, though they're factioned, so idk

>>53055610
Ehh, guess that's fine, was hoping for something like Cache Refresh.

>>53056667
While it's likely that there will be 1 - 2 cycles that will focus on helping the binder fodder cards, if rotation lasts for only 2 - 3 cycles then that cycle will leave the pool quickly, and those cards will be no better off. A longer rotation cycle would let those cards stew longer, and as new cards come out their interaction, meta, and importance will fluctuate, which is a good thing. It would also give FFG more space play around with more cards, so they could have cycles 1 and 4 be support for evergreen cards, and the other cycles be new ideas, for example.

Broken cards can be MWLed out of existence, the tier 3 cards have shown that. And if you really don't want to deal with broken interactions with older cards there's Cache Refresh to focus on. A 2 - 3 cycle Standard format helps no one but the impatient players that want to solve the game 15 minutes after new cards get released, then complain about getting broken cards to leave the pool without attempts at policing them through the community or waiting for errata or MWL updates.

>>53058135

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Asmodee would want to push for faster rotation schedules as well if that would lead to more sales (easier buy-in).

After all, they do want all the creds like any proper megacorp, and seeing how successful the M:TG format is in pushing products, why wouldn't they want to emulate that within the LCG model?

>>53056667
>It's that and the fact that a lot of cards are dead-weight. Donut Taganes?

Dead-weight? Have you played a strict operation-based rush deck when DT hits the table? It's pure murder.
Biggest problem using him is making sure he reaches the table soon enough.

>>53058402
They'd have to convince the players buying in - which are usually either Magic converts or board game players - that they should buy the data packs that will let them make half-way decent decks, with the knowledge that they will be removed from the standard competitive format in around 1.5 years. And board game players are usually sticklers for "bang for your buck" stuff.

Magic gets somewhat of a pass as the buy in cost is a lot lower compared to any LCG, and since players will likely resign themselves to not getting "the best" decks or try to own even half of the card pool. Compare it to Netrunner which practically demands knowledge of the whole card pool even if you don't have them, and how any suboptimal deck will get wrecked hard.

>>53058406

If it was a top of my head example. There's plenty of them if you go through the collection that you may have seen once or twice or never.

Which is the problem.

>>53058135

I don't disagree that shorter cycle rotation wouldn't help binder fodder. What I'm getting at is: Focusing on a shorter card-pool allows Fantasy Flight's designers to get the "big picture" of the sandbox and allow them to "look ahead" at cycles and see how Deluxe+Core interacts within the past-present-future 1-3 cycles.

I mean if you've played a Core + TD meta, you see how much Recursion has become "important" to Corps and how tough it is to play as Corp with Agenda Flood (something they're solving with printing Jackson's abilities splitly), but at the same time how enjoyable it is to not have to worry about Controlling the Message, Sensie, etc. political asspam cards.

> to leave the pool without attempts at policing them through the community or waiting for errata or MWL updates.

This would be fine if FF was faster on the ban trigger. 1.2 taking AGES to come out and them being reluctant to ban cards like SIFR which were *clearly fucking bad ideas* after they release because "it's too soon!" doesn't help the game.

>>53058994

Perhaps, but it is certainly considerably easier to 'know' a smaller card pool, especially a significant part of it presumably immune to rotation, compared to a larger one. And as it is, a lot of Netrunner players are already (ex-)magic players.

BG players can easily stick to big boxes if they want permanently legal stuff.

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>>53058402
Would asmodee go down to that level of micromanaging?

Micromanaging is rarely popular, especially with something only your subsid really does - as long as FFG keep the LCG model (unless asmodee decides that model has failed) I think they'll have a fairly free hand with it

>pic somewhat related

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>>53059102
The 1.2 thing was really bad, but it seems mainly to have been caused by Damon leaving at the same time.

Given how pissed with FFG he seems to have been, I wouldn't even be surprised if it was deliberate on Damon's part

>>53059147

Asmodee deciding on a faster rotation schedule can hardly be considered 'micromanaging'. Its the opposite if anything.

Now something like suggesting a certain console be made much better due to reasons, THAT would be 'micromanaging'.

>>53059102
>There's plenty of them if you go through the collection that you may have seen once or twice or never.

I understand. But then I do think most of them (not all, I agree there *are* a few design duds) would have a field in which they could have prospered decently well.

Look at Skulljack. In an asset spam meta, I found it could actually be pretty good value. Hardly anyone bothered though.

And that's before mentioning cards that just don't care about being competitive. The people that like cards like Windfall or Push Your Luck (or for a slightly different reason I guess Government Takeover) like them for the very same reasons that most competitive people dislike them.

>I don't disagree that shorter cycle rotation wouldn't help binder fodder.

I've been since Core an advocate for more infrequent, meatier, better controlled updates. I guess it just doesn't fit the economical model.

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>>53059217
I mean, given all the games Asmodee has ownership of, I'd say it is a bit.

You're right that it's nothing on the scale of what FFG did internally, but FFG's management is kind of known for being a bit shit.

>>53059102
>Focusing on a shorter card-pool allows Fantasy Flight's designers to get the "big picture" of the sandbox and allow them to "look ahead" at cycles and see how Deluxe+Core interacts within the past-present-future 1-3 cycles.
That's fair. Though if a cycle introduces something equivalent in power to Sifr, asset spam and the political assets, you'd still need to "suffer" through two cycles with them in play, and wouldn't reduce the amount of calls for "ban this" or "rotate faster" any less.

As a slight tangent, I wonder how different the agenda flood problem would be if there were less points needed per amount of cards in a deck. Like 18 - 19 points in a 45 - 49 card deck instead of the current 20 - 21, ignoring the obvious trouble maker that is GFI.

>This would be fine if FF was faster on the ban trigger.
To be fair, the MWL for Sifr came out like two packs in instead of the supposed 6 months, and Boggs seems keen on the once every 3 months notice on the MWL too.

>>53059140
Which again, is what Cache Refresh is for. There's no pressing necessity for there to be less cycles in Standard.

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>>53059398
Yeah - while Damon was awful about blaming the players ("big barriers are fairly costed, people just don't want to play them" he said smugly, instead of listening to them), he did have a point about a) the hivemind, and b) people not wanting to try new things that might not be the most directly or universally efficient.

Skulljack, like you say, is a good example - there was the perfect meta for it, but no-one played it.
It was just a little too awkward to play, even when it could and should have been game-winning - just one of those cards that's maybe out by a single credit, but really, it should have seen use.

Still, Boggs at least looks like he's willing to listen - if nothing else, he's not got Damon's titanic ego, though it'll be a while before we see what his design chops are like, and we don't know how much influence he has over what's already in the pipeline

>>53059462
>I wonder how different the agenda flood problem would be if there were less points needed per amount of cards in a deck. Like 18 - 19 points in a 45 - 49

We experimented with that here and it helps - though it's never going to solve the unlucky 5 5/3s draw in 8 cards situations. That's why I'm putting Global Food Initiative in the Jackson removal/replacement package. Because I'm thinking that's exactly what it is.

>>53059515
>"big barriers are fairly costed, people just don't want to play them"

If that was uttered *before* the cutlery/D4V1D double whammy, I don't think it was factually wrong.

>>53059462

5-7 cycles is still a LOT of cards to be aware of in Standard, and given the expected delays in-between releases, the pool can easily stay at the higher end for years. And that won't help in stopping the constant haemorrhaging of existing players like now.

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>>53059702
It was not.
It was around the time of Chiashi being spoilered and Bulwark coming out,

I specifically noticed it on the TWA podcast at worlds last year

>>53059757
>And that won't help in stopping the constant haemorrhaging of existing players like now.
I don't see how going down to 2 - 3 cycles would help with that. We have the "smaller card pool is easier to balance" argument to help people stay, but countered by the players lost by "not being able to keep up with the expansions". And if you're troubled by the number of cards to consider, then play Cache Refresh. Nevermind that most decks you'll find in tournaments will have usually been published by top players with only slight changes, meaning you can practice against and/or predict them.

>>53060115
> but countered by the players lost by "not being able to keep up with the expansions"

No offense, but that argument doesn't really hold water to me.

Newer players investment: 1 Core (which FF fixes by making 3-ofs every card like every other release post-Core) + Deluxes + 1-3 cycles (depending on cards for the current "meta.")

versus:

1-3 Core + Deluxes + 7 cycles of cards of various cards you may need in the current "legacy"/standard meta.

It's *far* cheaper an investment and if they slowed down the releases (which is the business problem for them in player retention for interest and money) in the long-run newer players and existing players wouldn't need to spend $15-60 a pop per cycle every other season of the year.

Player hemmoraging is due to gameplay designs (and balance), not set releases or expenses (which is, granted, a VERY minor complaint especially with newer players because they have to invest in 7 cycles + deluxes and multiple Core currently).

>>53061686

You're seeing this through the lens of dedicated competitive who'll feel compelled to upgrade to everything ar any time.

There's a reason we took the initiative of having a club card pool to lend: more casual players don't do that.

Some have stopped upgrading since D&D - indeed for quite a few, TD the first thing they had bought since.

Faster rotation could have pushed them out faster off the player pool.

>>53061686
>>53061860

Addendum: player hemorrhaging has also been the result of some thinking the pool grows too fast, that they hadn't gotten their money's worth off their investment yet, and they didn't need to upgrade until they did.

That's been a real issue here and part of what I call the balkanization process.

>>53061686
>Core (which FF fixes by making 3-ofs every card like every other release post-Core)
That's even less likely than a core 2.0 - it's been stated many times that making core 3 of everything is not on anyone's agenda

>>53061943
>and they didn't need to upgrade until they did.
Did they think they needed to upgrade before they actually did?
Or did they need to upgrade before they thought they would?

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Komianu/Brainstorm + Armoured Servers = lose your hand, then be forced to encounter the next ice (unless you have clickless draw), right?

>>53061686
>>53061860 has already explained it quite well; from the perspective of a newer player unaccustomed to browsing community forums, not keeping up to date with decklist of the weeks, and unable to put in the hours on Jinteki.net, the number of new cards, interactions, and rulings that pop up are blistering fast. Having lesser cycles would help keep the card pool and investment of getting into it (which apparently includes the entire card pool as opposed to a starter set like in Magic) low, yes, but it doesn't help them *keep up* any more than a 5 - 7 cycle would. Atleast in the latter, they could buy a data pack from two years back and it would still be relevant. <3 cycles is fine as a supplement like they're doing with Cache Refresh, but not as the main format.

And despite the permanence of the core and deluxe boxes, there is no way that a Core + Deluxes deck could even stand up to even a Cache Refresh deck, let alone Standard.

>>53062357
Yup.

>>53061974

They didn't need to upgrade until they got their investment's worth off their already bought cards.

Sorry, that sentence was a mess.

In bump we trust.

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Am I wrong to think Skorpios is a dumb idea for the long term health of the game? It's essentially telling everyone to have three EStrikes in every Anarch and Crim deck

>>53065628

That would have to be the solution, yeah, not building less streamlined and more robust to random trashing...

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>>53065628
Nah.

You could not use recursion.
You can use sac con
You can overdraw and discard (which is explicitly NOT trashing)
You can play a lot of events all at once
You can play with spare breakers
You can pack damage prevention

It's a strong ID, but it's not game-breaking

>>53065628

I definitely would have preferred HB Chronos Protocol

>>53065628

Cool alt idea by the way.

>>53008683

Hey, do any of you anons have the animated mimic card that uses Hexidecimal's masks from Reboot? I went to show it to somebody and find out I saved the bloody thumbnail instead of the actual animated card.

>>53061860

That sounds like an investment/money issue problem more than cycles being released in their current state. Which is my point, if they had rotation hitting, those cycles wouldn't be impacting anything other than tournament play. And at that point, if you're lending casuals cards, they're not going to be playing in "tournament" tournaments in general that will have the "standard"/Cache Refresh rotation.

Legacy needs to go the way of casual, really. There's too much bullshit. Cutting the cycles by at least 2 or 3 when this first rotation hits would help a bit.

>>53068703

I should probably expand that a bit further. Slower cycles would help newer players out because they wouldn't need to worry about the card pool being vast + investment.

Whereas for balance/competition a smaller card pool helps in tournaments.

It's basically a win-win for both sides. Casuals they won't play tournaments can get the rotated packs and never have to worry about it in terms of investment.

>>53068779
>Slower cycles would help newer players out because they wouldn't need to worry about the card pool being vast + investment.
I assume you mean fewer cycles. And if that's the goal for having only 2 - 3 cycles, then we already have Cache Refresh, we don't need Standard to have less cycles as well.

>Casuals they won't play tournaments can get the rotated packs and never have to worry about it in terms of investment.
Knowing that the first 2 cycles are rotating out, I have never seen a kitchen table player say they would rather get a pack from those two cycles (except Opening Moves, because Jackson) over any of the newer ones. Any player would want to "try" joining an official tournament at least once, which is why people actually buy cards instead of proxying everything.

And just like how some abhor ripping up cards and putting on stickers in TD, there are some that would balk at joining into a game that renders $20 x 6 worth of purchases worthless in slightly under two years. And if less players join in, eventually veteran players will start dropping off because of the same damn issues as we have now, and there will be less players as whole. Faster rotation will get rid of broken cards faster, but it does nothing to handle them as they come, and you'll still lose players to them.

If you really want FFG to solve balance issues, then you should be taking issue to how they release cards (CtM Flashpoint pack 1, Aaron pack 6) over implementing less cycles.

>>53069708
>That sounds like an investment/money issue problem more than cycles being released in their current state.

It's both really (more a personal investment than money issue, though, hey, we *have* kids that play). But certainly: the people that are not upgrading tend to play less and less with those that do. If only because most people that joined love the idea of a level playing field - one of the reasons they bought into the LCG model by opposition to the CCG one.

Now , to take our current situation as an example: limit to the last 2-3 cycles... and the people that keep upgrading and those that don't - that haven't for the most part since D&D - would only have Core + the big boxes in common right now. Way to fasten the community fracturing.

Not to mention, we have quite a few people thinking about stopping upgrade *at* rotation. Can't say how the field is going to look like in six months.

>>53069708
>(CtM Flashpoint pack 1, Aaron pack 6)

To play devil's advocate, I find there *were* decent answers to CtM - if only Link heavy decks.

>>53068297

Thought I had it, but sorry to say I can't find it in my mess of a folder.

>>53070410
>if only Link heavy decks
And Power Tap became good too, who would've thought. Sometimes cards just need time to stew for their time to shine, we're just hugely impatient.

I do wonder how a different card distribution would've affected the Flashpoint meta though.

>>53071231

A card that is otherwise doomed to remain binder-fodder having its day in the sun is always good to see.

Alas, that day has passed and it's again a rare sight to see it being used.

The issue is that such events are rare and very temporary before petering out, especially now that regionals season is upon us again.

Aside from buying another Core box and some dividers, what's a good way to store cards?

I keep all my cards sleeved, so I'm not sure a binder is the way to go.

>>53073065
I put them in a binder, but TD box is perfect for an insert

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This was everywhere else, so here it is for reddit too.

From the Spanish site: http://www.edgeent.com/sisimg/public/images/ffadn45_web_h_n_sp_002.png

It'll be in Earth's Scion, the next data pack.

Rubicon Interruptor

Cost 3

Criminal, Hardware

X Credits, Click: Derez one ice that was rezzed this turn. X is its printed cost. Use this ability only once per turn.

(influence not visible)

>>53075363

Going to be a lot of derrezing in the coming days...

I guess it's going to vindicate the choice of cheap gear-check ICE.

>>53076311
Two words
SPACE ICE

>>53076331

I know. This has been my secret hope for a while.

Hopefully it's their time in the sun... so to speak.

Really digging Cambridge out of TD.

Even early game, just going "so, do you want me to get back that Diesel, or that Sure Gamble?" is a major pain in the ass for the corp.

>>53077243
It's more interesting than Gabriel for sure. But Gabriel is simpler, fitting for a core ID.

>>53077501

Even discounting power, the interactive nature of the ability appeals to me.

>>53075363

Early game FAO + Rubicon is going to be pure hate corp side.

>>53077683
Yeah, it already was pretty fun using Crescentus/Emergency Shutdown. This makes it easier.

>>82410931

This makes it so you don't even have to run... which makes me kinda wary to be honest.

>>53077881
I don't know know what the deleted comment said but I find clever the wording on the Interruptor. Shenanigans aside, for a piece of ICE to be rezzed during the Runner's turn, it have to happen during a run. So the card doesn't mention a run had to be made, but usually that would be the case.

>>53078436

Well, FAO makes it so you don't *have* to run.

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>>53082852
That's why I said shenanigans aside. The wording is clever but leaves enough room to take advantage of it in a roundabout way.

Kinda worried about the lack of comments on TD so far. I'd be sad to hear we're an exception and the box fizzled everywhere else.

Probably being a bit too impatient, gotta let people get and play the thing first.

>>53083035

Fair enough. I kinda like how it impacts the odd Recon run on remote. Add Brute Force Hack to the mix I guess.

>>53083163
The box is not out here yet, and the community went from 14 to 4 that can't meet because schedule problems in a matter of months.

>>53083347

Ouch. Sad.

Hope for you things get better.

Grumble...

TD arriving any minute now...

>>53083163

Strange to hear the TD still hasn't reached some places, for fwiw, its pretty decent enough as a big box and campaign (although its fairly basic).

That said, for me at any rate, our side had a good time with a marathon campaign run during a launch event.

>>53089263

May you enjoy the unboxing...

>>53089475
Atleast I hope it arrives today, 15 minutes left until the end of the usual time frame the local post delivers stuff. Too bad it'll still be atleast a week away before my planned partner will be available for playing the campaign.

A side thought, Advanced Assembly Lines in Blue Sun? Just spamming the 2 credit gain every turn it isn't trashed then bouncing it back in hand, 3 with Breaker Bay Grid.

>>53089579

AAL isn't too bad, but I would think Adonis Campaign pretty much does the same thing and is slightly harder to trash. Assuming you are not using the BBG at the same time of course.

>>53089858
Yeah you're right, saves like two clicks reinstalling too. Do you get the rez money when you bounce Adonis on BBG though? I assume not.

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>>53091405
>Do you get the rez money when you bounce Adonis on BBG though? I assume not.
That's correct, you have to bounce BBG first.

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>>53091464
Also I've just seen that the artist has put some more things what they did up

I stopped playing a while back, did they finally errata Astroscripts to be less good?

When I was playing NEH fast advance/butcher shop was meta af , how much has changed since then?

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>>53091495

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>>53091501
1 per deck now - it's still amazing, but the astrotrain was derailed

>>53091502
And everyone's favourite card

Haven't played Netrunner in a while, but I the idea of a campaign expansion interests me. Is that thing worth it?

>>53091544
It's basically a big box, but with 4 factions instead of 2 - still roughly the same amount of cards.

Then they slap a campaign on for an extra 10 bucks or so.
The campaign has a few extra cards, but they're not legal in normal play (and a few are just to specifically interact with campaign things)

>>53091495
The logo makes them look like great deckbox art.

>>53091544
The agreement so far is that the story parts feel disconnected, since the campaign stuff are ID neutral and vague, though I haven't played it myself. As an expansion it's perfectly fine, because tons of new cards and new IDs.

>>53091618

The best part about this big box is that there are a decent number of actually useful cards for both corp and runner sides (compared to other big boxes), even if specific sides benefits in different degrees.

>>53092515
Yeah, probably because the reduced space dedicated for each faction gives a more focused design space, finding only the top.

>>53092603

While the design is a bit more focused, I wouldn't say most the cards are top tier. Crim for instance got a decent decoder, but everything else is better off in a highly specialised deck (ie Geist or Fisk).

>>53092703
Except Charlatan, I think all crim cards are good enough to be considered top tier. The bypassing on the breakers make them all incredible and threatening. Polyhistor draw is good, even when it gives cards to the corp.
Compare it with Honor and Profit Crims, where we have nonsensical things like Window, or expensive and awkward like Bug and push your luck.

>>53092816

Only good crim stuff in H&P is legwork, SecTest, and Passport. Everything else is pretty meh at best. If anything, crim players can easily ignore that box for C&C in Cache format and not feel terribad.

Still, most TD crim stuff, while *much* better on average, isn't really good stuff Andy tier (new decoder aside). Geist loves the box though (many sac stuff), and Fisk finally gets some support (SYN attack and new console).

Steve makes a great respawn target though.

I was wondering, for those of you that played TD: do you think a more restrained, more focused format with only one faction each side represented, but because of that a better tailored, meatier campaign, could work?

Or do you think too many people would just let it pass for not having their favorite factions?


>>53092965
>Still, most TD crim stuff, while *much* better on average, isn't really good stuff Andy tier

I don't think using Andy as a baseline is a good idea given how accidentally above the curve she happens to be.

>>53093792

Honestly, excepting perhaps Shaper (since C&C makes them awesome), the other 3 factions really needed that new big box since their own ones were mediocre for them. The campaign bits are more of a dessert rather then the main course.

Still, if they did the campaign stuff like the Arkham Horror scenario packs (POD ones in particular), they could easily focus on the story bits rather then having to make sure the competitive cards are fine instead.

A Reina vs GRNDL dual campaign scenario would be awesome for one. Her 'campaign-only' cards could very well be (by the rotated) full bleed Caissa programs, while GRNDL can have fracking/refinery I suppose.

>>53093792
>Or do you think too many people would just let it pass for not having their favorite factions?
Yeah, I think so, and as >>53093922 mentioned, Crim, Weyland and HB got a bit short-changed in their big boxes.

Though I still think a more tailored campaign would be better - a couple of campaign cards and a little bit of something specific lore-wise for each faction would be nice

>>53093792
>Or do you think too many people would just let it pass for not having their favorite factions?
Assuming the format is closer to the print-on-demand scenario packs of the AHLCG as mentioned above with no player cards included in it, if anything, it'd be a great reason to build a deck for a faction they've never played before. I'd love one of those. I don't know how much campaign they can pack into a single 60 card maximum pack though.

>>53093922

Reina vs GRNDL was the first time we made "duel decks" meant to be played against each other. Last time we made one was Jesminder vs Palana.

Probably time to work on that. NULL vs ???

I always liked those things.

>>53094029

Hadn't considered the POD model... could be interesting.

>>53094063
Do you still have those duel deck list?

>>53094063
Null vs Titan - an employee turned rogue? (Rebirth into Omar optional)

>>53094063

Null/Omar vs Titan sounds appropriate, they 'uncovering' the Inconvient Truth(s) while Titan scrambles to stop them, not that it matters in the end.

Another pairing might be Ken vs NBN (MN? perhaps Spark?), him extracting Miranda and escaping while NBN tries to prevent that (that's what happen in the novella right?).

MaXx vs NBN again for Monitor?

>>53094079

Not on hands. I rarely keep lists myself. I'll try to look out tomorrow if we have them archived. Should be so, but I don't want to make any promise.

>>53094095
>>53094113

Oh yeah, Titan was so self-evident. Shame on me!

I really like the Miranda run idea. Hell, maybe it's time to design mini-campaigns. Presumptuous, but worth a try.

Make a mandatory Miranda Rhapsody card that is good for the corp, nut is added to the agenda score of the runner if trashed

Black Level Clearance on a Armored Server run; the runner has no more cards in grip, can the runner jack out?

>>53094220
Nope, and that means they're dead from the damage

>>53094150

There is also the question of what card pool should be allowed in such hypothetical packs. Just 1 single core is going to be brutal for NBN (esp with singleton Astro). Perhaps allowing 1Core + all big boxes would be appropriate for 'advanced' campaigns.

Miranda can easily be an asset giving the same effects as Illegal Arms factory, only giving 1 pt/game to Ken instead of bad pub on trashing/liberation. Or as the campaign 3/2 agenda instead giving both sides the ability to advance their story if she is in their score area on victory.

The other warning/side-quests can easily be recycled from the TD campaign?

>>53094220

5inf is an awful lot for one Black LC though, even for the likes of Titan.

>>53095522
I'd go the Neural EMP + Komainu + K.P. Lynn + Prisec package myself, sounds like delightful overkill.

>>53094150
>Hell, maybe it's time to design mini-campaigns. Presumptuous, but worth a try
That could be cool

>>53094429
>>53094150
>giving 1 pt/game to Ken instead of bad pub on trashing
> is added to the agenda score of the runner if trashed
...now I'm sad about the 5 inf Execs again

>>53092965
Now that you mention window, it might be a pretty decent hate card for Scorpios. They often pack Underway Renovation to mill the top, damage for the grip and trashing for the board. Bottom of the stack might be the safest place for your breakers if you had a way to get them there. Maybe Mr. Li before he rotates?

>>53096143
Reading Comprehension, why have you forsaken me? Meant >>53092816

>>53096143
That's too convoluted for a hate card when we have Employee Strike and Sac Cons.
I find it funny that people either think the ID is OP and others that think the ID is shit. So polemic.

>>53098012
It certainly is a meta-defining card, and the mere existence of it will Change the way decks are built. I've been using it for thousand cuts, and it works OK.

>>53065628

No. I'm inclined to agree with you. Lockdown and Chronos Project already exist and those can actually do some real damage when used at the right time. I can understand them feeling that that design space provides a necessary role in the game but putting it on an ID ability was just stupid.

>>53065729

>You could not use recursion.
But Corps getting free range with Museum, Jackson, and Friends. That's totally fine?

>You can use sac con
So yet another bullet Runner decks have to run just to not get screwed at the deckbuilding stage? Besides that Skorpios doesn't *just* trigger off things being trashed from play.

>You can overdraw and discard (which is explicitly NOT trashing)
If you're going to do something like that *just* to use a Clone Chip you might as well have just installed the program in the first place 90% of the time.

>You can play a lot of events all at once
The vast majority of Skorpios players know which events they need to actually hit if we're talking event spam runner decks, but that said this is probably the closest thing to actually viable.

>You can play with spare breakers
The decks in question are running multiple trash effects. You really think they won't just wait for the second copy to hit? Most decks that aren't shaper want to run redundant breakers anyway to make sure you see them early.

>You can pack damage prevention
Doesn't help the overall long term issues this presents for the same reason Sac Con doesn't: Skorpios triggers from *anywhere* things can be trashed from.

>>53099326
>But Corps getting free range

Archive Interface exists (though I'll never forgive the coast-raise to 3). Or the Slums.

>If you're going to do something like that *just* to use a Clone Chip you might as well have just installed the program in the first place 90% of the time.

Installing a program at paid ability window has SO much value people often willfully threw programs to the heap.

>Most decks that aren't shaper want to run redundant breakers anyway to make sure you see them early.

Historically, many, if not most, Crim decks only had one copy of each breaker. I'd say the alternative has been more the exception.

>>53099326
>That's totally fine?
As fine as deja and same old

>a bullet Runner decks have to run
No, if they don't facecheck, run cautiously, and maybe have a plan for Batty then they should be okay.

>*just* for clone chip
For lots of things, especially SoT Levy - there's also definitely been a fair bit of support for over-draw techniques

>multiple trash effects
On ice? Other than hunter-killer (which requires losing an agenda), Batty (who's easily stymied) and traps (which really could do with more play), you've got ice delivering this trashing, and since when has ice been a threat? All this does is make the rare time a destroyer lands actually mean something

>>53099684

Technically, until 'clip appeared, it was near mandatory for the vast majority of non-Geist crims to have 2 fracters (at least one corroder), alongside pairs of decoders & killers in their decks.

Has anyone tried out Cache format (casual) events yet? How did they go?

>>53102474

Interesting. Made me go and check on that hunch... I'd say from Core till somewhere around Lunar, two breakers was still common.
Then the hyper optimization got viral and you started seeing it everywhere in crim.

Let's compare two decks: one from 2014 and one from 2015:

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/11014/the-solution-worlds-3rd-place-runner-deck-

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/29753/drug-dealer-gabe

And now people are freaking out having to go back to the old way of building...

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/35048/finding-nero-5th-place-ct-regionals

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/35053/express-elevator-to-hell-party-edition-ffgc-regionals-1st-

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/39471/takeshi-s-castle-1st-bromley-sc-

>>53105925

AI breakers (ie Faust) does help reduce the number of actual breakers needed, with a few backups to deal with anti-AI ICE, but absent that, most crim decks still run multiple dedicated breakers excepting the single fracter that is 'clip.

6 Exclusive Party + 3 Process Automation + 3 Build Script + 3 Deuces Wild? A ~30 card deck seems silly.

>>53106410

Not too bad for PPVP Sunny or maybe Adam (perhaps APEX?), but pretty meh for everyone else since the inf is usually needed elsewhere.

>>53106402

Well, contradicts my experience, which seems backed up by published lists - regardless of AI presence.

>>53106410
>3 Process Automation + 3 Build Script + 3 Deuces Wild
Assuming crim for EP, that's 9 inf - I mean sure, that's a lot of draw, and all of it at an economic gain, which is very cool, but is it worth having so much inf tied up in it?

I see why they put an influence cost on Build Script/Process Automation, if they were free they'd probably be as ubiquitous as sure gamble, but 3 inf is not worth it for what you get - I think they should have done something like alliance where the inf is variable - maybe "all copies of X after the first costs 0 influence"

I wonder if there's any truth to the chain of
Diesel -> Build Script -> Process Automation -> Easy Mark
being from the OG netrunner and working a bit like lands - they're cards you get in most packs that are pure resource

>>53106689

Honestly, even if the not-Deuces Wild cards were inf-free, what would the main factions drop in favor of them?

>>53106733

The two-inf Diesel copies, for a start?

>>53106733
I think Build Script would see play at least, replacing Diesels outside of shaper and generally just greasing up a deck, making them go faster - like >>53106410, concept, you're basically dropping deck size.

I do think they're not great though (and there's muttering that Damon really tried to dissuade Dan from making DW rather than going back to change PA/BS because it was "in the pipeline" - and because Damon's not a huge fan of multi-function cards, Aaron aside)

>>53106880

Don't often see crims splashing diesels. It's usually quality time for them at most. And Anarchs have their own draw to not need said diesels either.

>>53106689
>but is it worth having so much inf tied up in it?
Is there a set up Crim has trouble getting a rig going before they can run? Probably that. 9 influence is a doozy, but I kinda want to try it in Khan for a 25 card deck, though I bet she'd be lacking econ. Unless she goes Big Dad?

>>53107345
>Big Dad?
Who now?

I don't know, but that sounds cool - I've seen Khan with Autoscripter, that's kind of funny.
You'd have party/process econ at least, but you'd still have the problem of crim breakers

>>53107345

Perhaps try an Andy respawn into Khan deck instead? At least she would have 2 more inf to actually use, and a better setup first turn as well.

>>53107345
Silhouette's 40 as well

>>53108425

As much as having a lower minimum deck is nice, there is only so much good crim cards you can cut corners with and still be functional.

>>53108878
True, I was just thinking for reduction - I personally often prefer larger decks, I love options

>>53107472
The Kate deck with lots of link, MU, Underworld Contacts, and Data Folding.

>>53107593
"Andy respawn into X" is slowly becoming as annoying as "dies to Mimic/Yog". No offense though, I appreciate the suggestion.

>>53108425
She's probably a better option, yes. Small card variety probably helps the Khan fastlock plan I guess.

>>53099684
>Archive Interface exists (though I'll never forgive the coast-raise to 3). Or the Slums.

Which are cards you have to slot, not an innate ID ability. If Skorpios' effect were on something like a 5-6 trash cost asset I'd... probably still bitch about it, but that would still be much more acceptable.


>Installing a program at paid ability window has SO much value people often willfully threw programs to the heap.

I will concede the concept, but I have literally never seen anyone do that for a Clone Chip install, but you probably have a different meta than I do. I've seen people do that for Conspiracy Breakers, but never for something like CC or SoT.

>>53111848
CC->SMC is pretty amazing, you can be pretty fearless as long as you've got a bit of cash

>>53111876

Yeah. And people don't bin their SMCs just to CC them. They install the SMC, fetch something when they need it, and then CC the spent SMC back later.

>>53112100
>>53111876
Abour that, is anybody playing either signal jamming or Navi Mumbai City grid to combat SMC/conspirabreakers shenanigans?

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>>53111848
>but never for SoT.
Not even for Levy?

>>53114527
I've not, but I'm tempted to now that you mention it.

Consider Hailstorm + Signal Jamming.
Buh-bye Paperclip in heap

>>53114578

Nope. And honestly what good does that do? All dumping a Levy to SoT it later does is add an extra click to the cost, as well as opening you up to getting your Levy Lockdowned. And that's been a threat to respect ever since Lockdown was released.

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I'm thinking: Leela Patel, Gauntlet, TopHat/Equivocation, and Raptor breakers. I can even go Unschedule maintenance.
Or is it just better good old indexing while it last? Indexing has the advantage of being a Run event for Planned Assault. But Equivocation would pressure the Corp while Leela keeps sending derezzed ICE back to HQ.

>>53115112
Even before, I fucked up a few Runners with Blacklist/Chronos Project.

offtopic: Hah, AutocardAnywhere tagged Lockdown, the ICE, instead of Ark Lockdown.

>>53100254

>On ice? Other than hunter-killer (which requires losing an agenda), Batty (who's easily stymied) and traps (which really could do with more play), you've got ice delivering this trashing, and since when has ice been a threat? All this does is make the rare time a destroyer lands actually mean something

First and foremost: Kala Ghoda Real TV, Housekeeping, and Underway Renovation immediately come to mind. Regardless, once again Skorpios triggers from zones *other* than play.

Second: How are we defining "easily" stymied? Because Batty is easily recurred himself.

Third: Destroyers landing *do* mean something. Losing a breaker at the wrong time is still a *huge* tempo hit, whether from installation costs screwing up your run math or time lost digging for a new breaker.

>>53115446

Indexing with mad dash and/or FtE would mean fewer agendas needing to be scored (assuming said indexing didn't fail). Which while making her ability fire fewer times is also likely to make things like hunter seeker less commonly used against her the longer the game goes.

(40 cards)
Silhouette: Stealth Operative
-- event (20 cards)
1 Account Siphon
3 Build Script ***
3 Career Fair
3 Deuces Wild ***
6 Exclusive Party
3 Process Automation ***
1 Vamp **
-- hardware (6 cards)
3 Dyson Mem Chip
1 Feedback Filter *
2 The Gauntlet
-- program (4 cards)
1 Lustig
1 Magnum Opus **
1 Peregrine
1 Saker
-- resource (10 cards)
1 Aaron Marrón
3 Data Folding
1 Film Critic *
2 Same Old Thing
3 Underworld Contact

Test draws show that chaining the draw cards feels pretty good, but I just realized how hilariously wrecked Exclusive Party is by Skorpios. Guess it's pretty good bait for Siphon, Vamp and SoT though.

Seeing TD from the runner side was pretty cool, though obviously less surprises now.

I like how the Swindler set fucks up the econ reading of the corp when it comes to access.
Having the corp import some Hortium to counter my going full Mammon was pretty cool.
Maxwell James bluff as a way way to transform a successful HQ run into a two deep remote bypass with Inside Job/Spear Phishing is kinda disgusting.

Worst surprise of the night, very first game: perfectly calibrated AS + Polyhistor run -> SYN Attack with corp at zero credits only to the see it go Beanstalk -> Shipment from Mirrormorph -> Shipment from Mirrormorph. Makes you lose faith in humanity.

>>53095522
>5inf is an awful lot for one Black LC though, even for the likes of Titan.

I was more thinking in TD context. But then I love my stupid wild cards.

>>53094079

Sad to say no one (at least no one present today) had bothered with saving any of them. And the Mumbad ones have been decommissioned for a while. This depresses in a way I have no right to, given I hardly ever bother saving lists myself. I guess there's more fun in making those than playing them...

>>53118330

Even one BlackLC for Skorpios is a big chunk of their inf that is arguably better spent elsewhere, especially when you can't really tutor it out for when you really need it.

Also, it's interesting to see how Steve did in a TD campaign run.

>>53118329

All the slots just for the drip econ seem a bit wasted when you already have MO. Only 1 AS seems sad.

>>53121291
Ehh, guess you're right, might be better to just get some more econ and utility cards, maybe even more draw with Fisk and Earthrise.

I've created an IG deck, haven't used it yet, and already I feel dirty. I'd ask your forgiveness, but I know I do not deserve it.

>>53122680
Any asset spam that isn't prison is fine by me, though even prison gets nullified hard by Feedback Filter/Archives Interface/Slums.

>>53122680
IG is awesome, don't let the hate drive you away

>>53119007
>Even one BlackLC for Skorpios is a big chunk of their inf

But then if I can't try such ridiculous tings in TD, where/when?

>Also, it's interesting to see how Steve did in a TD campaign run.

Honestly, unless they're strictly comparing him to Andy, I'm finding the people who think he's just a middle/end game runner are severely under-evaluating his ability.
Going about just with recurring support/utility cards, I find it's not really difficult to deride more value per HQ run than Gabe's two credits (just getting Diesels, Sure Gamble and the like back (without discounting the click needed to play the card again). Getting the power cards back is nice, but it's really the rest that makes the ability shine

From sitting opposite of it, I'm still finding the corp E. and F way too generous. Not only because they aren't that hard to avoid, but because while the corp can engineer situations to force the runner's equivalents into play pretty naturally, I don't think it's in any way reciprocal.

>>53122680

Definitely this >53123707

>>53122967
What's the key identifying parts that make a "prison" ?

Bio-Ethics and Hostile Infrastructure?

>>53125119
At it's core, prison archetypes in games are forcing the runner to do or die (in this case, trash or die) and having that put insane amount of pressure on their resources (in this case, cards for damage and credits for trashing), and some simple way of doing it for a looooong time (Friends, Interns, Museum). If the opponent fucks up and runs out of any resource at any point, they cannot do, so they die. This means the opponent has veeery little space to build their own board state and do their own thing (in this case, running to steal agendas).

>>53125119
>>53125258
In the card sense, every punishing asset (both proactive, like Bio-Ethics, and reactive, like Hostile, Shock in Archives), asset recursion and asset economy are good for IG prison.

Post rotation NBN is going to be interesting to watch.

>>53126480
Why? I mean, they lose beale and sweeps week (and jackson of course) but I see nothing actually major.

>>53126480

Would be interesting to see how they fare in Cache format. At least their big box is good for them.

>>53126655

Midseasons is gone as well. Wraparound and Pop up window were decent ice for the times.

>>53127140
Pop-up is still pretty boss, Herald looks like a poor replacement

>>53128412
I don't think Herald is Pop Up substitute, more like a NBN Builder.

Do counter surveillance stack with medium/R&D interface?

>>53129028
It's an access replacement effect that lets you access but places a restriction on the maximum number of accesses, so gut feeling says it's a no.

I wonder if there has been any Anarch builds that have been using Counter Surveillance as a way around Midseasons. Though as a side, due to the "if able" part, I think you can't use the effect if you have more tags than the corp has cards in their RnD.

>>53129318
I think you can, because it says up to. If able probably means the runner is forced to pay X credits (X being the number of tags) if the run is successful.

>>53129546
Oh yeah you're right, guess you can then. That'd be a pretty neat way to wipe the smug out of the corp player's face.

>>53128458
Maybe.

Man, I hope we see more movable ice some day

>>53132072
That's what I really like about blue sun, a shame it's an aspect so underplayed.

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Any economy suggestions for my deck? I'm struggling to think of what to add. or maybe I'm just making too many misplays when I play on Jinteki. It feels like I have enough, but I feel like I'm struggling to economy at times.

Ele "Smoke" Scovak: Cynosure of the Net

Event (15)
3x Diesel
3x Dirty Laundry
2x Indexing
1x Mad Dash
2x Modded
3x Sure Gamble
1x The Maker's Eye

Hardware (6)
2x Clone Chip
2x R&D Interface
2x The Gauntlet ●●

Resource (10)
2x Beth Kilrain-Chang
3x Daily Casts
3x Net Mercur
2x Temüjin Contract ●●●●

Icebreaker (3)
1x Houdini
1x Paperclip ●●●
1x Switchblade ●●

Program (6)
3x Cloak
3x Self-modifying Code

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>>53132316
Looks fine to me, maybe you're rushing too much? Not letting your economy flow in. What are your opponents playing ?

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>>53132316
Maybe I'm just getting a bit antsy because of my games on Jinteki, but most of the time when I play in person its HB or Jinteki. I should probably slow my gameplay down a bit though, to as you said, let the economy flow in.

>>53132380
Sorry >>53132457 was meant for you.

>>53132457
You can swap 2 cloaks for magnum opus, although I don't like to rely too much on it. It can't hurt.
I would drop the RDI for same old thing to recur maker's eye and indexing.

>>53132864
I've been considering that for a while, but with Skorpios existing, I feel a bit uncomfortable doing so. This deck get's absolutely destroyed if one breaker gets trashed. I've had to slot up to 42 to put in some Sac Cons.

>>53132951

If you are concerned about Skorpios, it would be prudent to scrape up the inf for e-strikes instead.

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>>53134487

I'll take out the clone chips and see how the deck fares. Thanks!

>>53135441

Changing switchblade into dagger might be another option, although you don't really need that many CCs (1 is good to have around though).

Also, might as well drop the single TME into one more Dash or Index, the better to finish off quicker if you can't find the protection. You can even go to 2x cloak and SMC due to smaller deck size.

Players resolve their respective card effects regardless of whose turn it is right? So you could have the Runner resolve K.P. Lynn first before dealing with Caprice?

Also a thought, if you use Copycat to jump to the innermost ice on a remote server with Caprice/Lynn in it, would the runner still be considered to have passed all ice and their abilities fire?

>>53140122
Yes

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Film Critic nulls Hunter Seeker, while Skorpios ability is strong against recursion I don't know if that's enough to propel the ID to the head of the meta. But Film Critic is coming back for sure.
Observe and Destroy is also off while Aaron is still prevalent.

>>53141650
Forgot to specify, it saddens me that O&D is useless with Aaron around. I like how it needs a tag and a credit range to destroy things, provides opportunity to play around it but it's strong anyway.

>>53008683
Can i play this game solo ? i have no friends

>>53141701
You can play it online in Jinteki.net, nobody has friends there.

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>>53141650
Film Critic and Aaron are so annoying as Weyland - >>53045955 is an answer, but not a good answer.

I almost want them to be cheaper

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>>53141876
Corporate Town too.
I'm thinking Jemison.
Rez CorpTown (advance PB), kill the aaron, score Posted Bounty, Close accounts, O&D.
ALL MY JANK

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>>53141949
Why CA instead of kill?

But if you want to go super-jank, use the other Monica Singh card, subcontract, and kill them before they can sports hopper or other trash effects (except prevent effects, but w/e)

I do wonder if Monica will ever be a card in her own right

>>53142619
I'm going to need a bigger HQ.
What's the consensus on Research Facility?

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>>53142806
Kind of expensive for what it does, but pretty nice to have on occasion. Clearly has the art from something else

Wonder how well it goes with the clearances...

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So anarch has been getting a lot of these "force the corp to trash from HQ" effects.

Can this be an archetype?
Run a bunch of this type of effect and jam like ;a hades shard in your deck for good measure?
How many of this sort of effect do you want?
This sort of stuff interests me and I'm curious to see if it'll go anywhere.

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>>53143400
better image.

>>53143400
We always kind of had this. Hemorrhage, Wanton Destruction and Hades (indirectly Itinerant protesters). It's an interesting archetype and I'm glad it's back.
Plus, nerve agent demo run of course.

>>53143374
I think the card wins the award for having the most non-relevant stuff on a Netrunner card.
>card flavour is about the next big research
>card effect is a bigger HQ (research should logically effect RnD)
>card art is about a razor blade computer chip

>>53143400
I'm sad you seen to have forgotten about Noise, even if he does hit RnD.