It's simple. We kill the Fetchlands.

File: 1274099250243.png (36KB, 205x273px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 205x273px

>frontier

>>53000318
It's not a majority of players want to start at origins, it's that MaRo has said wizards would start the format at origins, Why do you think they named it that?

Knocking fetches out with this move also conveniently kills dark bant CoCo which is equally as much cancer as it was when it was in standard and means the format isn't quite solved at least.

>>53000318

I'd be fine with the Fetchlands being banned in every format and restricted in Vintage. They over-inflate the price of dual-type lands, and make any non-dual-type-land that produces mana to be sub-par, not to mention it makes games go longer like you said.

>>53000318
I know this is bait but still fuck you

>>53000760
>I'd be fine with the Fetchlands being banned in every format and restricted in Vintage. They over-inflate the price of dual-type lands, and make any non-dual-type-land that produces mana to be sub-par, not to mention it makes games go longer like you said.

exactly this

>>53000318
>Fetchlands take too long with the searching and shuffling
>Brainstorm, ponder, preordain and dare I say it serum visions are eating up the clock with players being indecisive
>Countermagic creates so many lines that some players deciding whether or not to counter has been dragging out tournaments
>Removal has too many lines of play and it has been causing too many players to go over the 8 second limit for a turn

I'm noticing a trend with problematic cards.
When there's a buzz about getting a card banned, they seem to reprint it and not ban the thing to cash in on the popularity, and then they ban it within a year after.

>Splinter Twin gets reprinted in a Masters set
>Gets banned within a year.

>Divining Top gets reprinted in a Masters set
>Gets banned within a year.

>Fetchlands get reprinted in a Masters set
>...
One more year guys.

>>53000949
After their retarded top ban I'm fine with WotC doing anything to continue shitting up their game. Maybe people will finally wake up.

>>53000949
Snapcaster was also printed. So was LotV. Maybe WotC thinks that grixis control is getting out of hand :^)

Stop trying to make fetchban happen. It's not going to happen.

>>53000949
Good thing mine are chinamen's work.

>>53000318
Maybe if Knightfall were oppressive that might be considered. But, it's... you know. Not.

>>53000867

As someone who has a good amount of Fetchlands I have to agree with the OP. When you consider the logic that Wizards has placed on banning stuff like Top, Preordain, Brainstorm or anything that makes decks too "consistent"; I would put Fetchlands at the absolute top of that list.

>>53001756
Brainstorm isn't banned and preordain is out just to limit the amount of 1 mana cantrips

>>53000949
I think the trend really is that they reprint these OP hard to obtain, expensive as fuck cards; making it easier to obtain and play the op decks. Now more people show up to tournaments with these decks, and instead of suggesting players adapt, and build counters to these decks, they just straight out ban them.

>>53001348
>tfw about to pick up a set of Chinaman ABU duals, LEDs, FoWs and Wastelands.
Just try to stop me from making whatever Legacy deck I want, Wizards.

>>53000318
I think there's an argument to be made for sure, especially in modern. Fetchlands are really consistant, and they have all sorts of random synergies like dryad arbor in response to lilliana -2.
I think a fetchland ban would be actually retarded, and printing better LD would fix that, but hey, new players hate LD.

>>53001348
Pls redpill me on the chinaman, how good is he?

>>53002068
What about just printing Stifle in Modern?

>>53002444
>/r/bootlegmtg

>>53002466
No arguments here, that would be great.

>>53002579
I don't think WotC wants to make blue relevant unfortunately.

Wot C only bans cards if

1- it enables a degenerate combo deck. Amulet Bloom and Storm are examples. They always ban the enableing cards, like Summer Bloom and Preordain to neuter the deck, but not kill it outright.

2- If a single deck has too large a meta share. Eldrazi or Copy Cat are examples here. The decks are literally too strong to not play and 35-40% meta share is overwhelming.

3- A deck is a problem for R&D moving forward, like Birthing Pod. Instead of having to always worry about how strong a new card interaction would be, they again ban the enabling card.

Fetches only enable strong, consistent mana bases, which WotC doesn't care about, and in fact encourage. 4 color mana bases lead to strong creature games which are "more exciting" to watch on stream. Also, time should not be an issue. Shuffling your deck should take 30 seconds or less, so even if each player fetches twice per game (which is pretty average), that's only 2 minutes per game, 6 minutes per match, leaving 40 minutes or so for actual playing.

Tl;dr: Fetches are fine, stop being pussies.

File: mXyupD1.gif (1MB, 288x198px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 288x198px

>>53000318
>kill fetchlands
>frontier

>>53002444
Depends on the card itself.
From my experience:
Wooded Foothills, Cavern of souls, damnation, Lili, Tarmo, that enchantment that shits out faeries, the old duals, stomping ground and Wasteland were perfect.

The others ranged from meh to shit.

>>53002768
What about the prices? Cavern of Souls for example.

File: IMG_20170425_093606.jpg (313KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

313KB, 960x720px

>>53002815
2.50 each more or less, the more you buy less they cost. Comparing two fakes and a real one.

>>53002749
They should be reprinted ostensibly, though. Having to pay hundred of dollars for your manabase is beyond stupid.

Just print them every standard set in the Rare or even Mythic slot but ban them from the Standard format.

>>53002863
Does having English Caverns of Souls among all your Spanish cards make people suspicious at all?

>>53000318
You can fuck right off with your opinion.

>>53002902
Nah, everybody here has mixed languages in their decks. Some people are purists but most will buy just the cheapest ones.

>>53002897
I do agree with you, I think they should print the ever-loving crap out of them. However, WotC has to pander to large buyers of their sealed product, like StarCity Games, and those companies have to make a profit.

Should there be some price barrier for entry? Probably. It ensures that only people serious about the game will get into higher levels of play.

Now, are prices outrageous? Absolutely. Price barrier should only be so high. Probably around $500 should get you 90% of format staples for whatever former you pick.

File: tmp_1175-20160826_1125441099458817.jpg (4MB, 5312x2988px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 5312x2988px

>>53002902
Don't let shitty camera phone pics fool you anon.

>>53002863
Which chinaman are we talking about though? Is it this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70cbNJrs2Xw

File: 20170501_181733.jpg (2MB, 3264x1836px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3264x1836px

>>53002994
They all just buy and resell their stuff, just find your favorite one on AliExpress

>>53002993
Yeah they won't pass if you try to sell them as the real deal, but playing them double-sleeved? Nobody in a year and a half has ever noticed

>>53002973
But SCG would still make a profit. They also profit from selling, say, Felidar Guardian before it was banned.

And if manabases in modern are accessible, the format would be played more, and the increased demand would keep prices decent. Even if they were ostensibly printed, Fetches would probably never run lower than 5 bucks.

And again, more players in the format moves the other cards, like Snapcasters, etc.

>>53003083
Yeah I wanted to know which ones you have good experience with so I don't buy something chock full of typos and obvious flaws.

>>53003195
Star City Trading (gotta love these unimaginative fucks) on AliExpress.

>>53003195
Its all chinese. You have to buy the most expensive stock they offer or they will basically put it on printer paper with 0 effort. Even with the good stock its going to be hit or miss. If it turns out to be shit theyll tell you if you wanted the cards to look real then you should have bought real cards. Its laughable when people post their fakes, say theyre fake, and when someone points out that there are blatent flaws like glossiness or discoloration, they get really defensive. If you keep your fakes under wraps its likely nobody will notice. If it is, you got scammed and need to feign outrage.

>>53003195
They're all going to have obvious flaws, if you're buying fake cards its unavoidable. If you think your LGS is autistic enough to call your ass out don't buy them. Across a table, double sleeved someone may not notice but if put to any scrutiny, especially with a real copy on hand, modern cards are fairly easy to distinguish from fakes in person.

>>53003418
I want to buy some expensive shit like Cavern of Souls and Plateau for my EDH deck, it's not going to be used competitively.

>>53000925
>>53000760
People have tuned decks to the point that they only run 1 or 2 of any given dual anyway. Taking away fetches will only drive the price of the duals up higher since people will need more copies to compensate. However, this is assuming the meta will still try to force multicolored decks. It's very well possible we could see a return to the days of more focused mono colored decks that don't want to fuss with an unpredictable land base.

>>53003510
Those two are good from my experience, also playing EDH? Nobody will notice.

>>53003510
Try emailing this dude: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ViqFftc4Jw8

Afaik all the best shops atm are just resellers of VZ or BL stuff.

File: ng2ka5dIQS1rgllugo6_r1_1280.jpg (298KB, 1280x747px) Image search: [Google]

298KB, 1280x747px

>>53000318
Kill fetch lands AND this idea of Frontier.

Now we're talking!

I heard Chinaman had a harsh dip in quality a few months ago. Did he actually recover?

>>53003388
This, unfortunately. The day fakes become actually good is the day Moder and Vintage go up in flames, but that day is not today

>>53003846
Really? I haven't bought from them in a year, but I was hoping for them to improve their fakes.

File: 1493659904661542.png (333KB, 375x523px) Image search: [Google]

333KB, 375x523px

instead of banning cards they just need to print more hosers

>>53003510
In all honesty, as long as you double sleeve or use double matte sleeves, you're never going to get found out unless they desleeve the card. Even deck checks at GPs and Pro-tour qualifiers are just making sure the cards in your deck match the list you submitted, and even then you only have to worry about that if you're a top 8 candidate.
Hell, at the FNM level you can easily get away with a high-quality printing carefully cut out and glued to another card. Think about it like this - how often is someone going to carefully look at a card you're playing?

The only time I have an issue with proxies is when people who know they have fake shit try to sell or trade it as the real deal.

>>53004422
Keep your shitty cards to ccg

>>53000318
>They finally got rid of the cancer.
>supporting the ban
Please go back to Hearthstone.

File: 1493662462206595.png (265KB, 375x523px) Image search: [Google]

265KB, 375x523px

>>53005148
no

>>53004422
>>53005415

I have a better idea for a card:
Cost: 0
Sacrifice this, you win the game

>>53005566
that doesn't seem very balanced

>>53004422
>>53005415
>they/their
>until end of turn
>{T}1B
Please, at least learn the proper formatting.

>>53000318
t. Can't afford fetchlands

>>53005582
I agree, it should give you free mana and tutor for a counterspell on cast

>>53000318
>Frontier
Sorry dude, it's going the way of tiny leaders.

>>53003388
The only worthwhile fakes are the fetches. The ABUR duals are obvious as fuck, and people don't bother to weather those fuckers.

>>53005895
that seems like it would be even less balanced

>>53005895
>tutor for a counterspell on cast
Then people could counter it before the tutor trigger resolves, it should at least have split second too.

>>53005915
Marsh flats sucks tho.

>>53000949
Twin and Top weren't "problematic" and there was no buzz to ban Twin.

>>53004422
>Better than goblin guide
>>53005415
>A pinger that cant kill creatures

You suck at this.

>>53003515
I mean, god forbid people aren't able to get whatever colour of mana they want so they can play their 'Jeskai Black' 4-colour goodstuffs unmolested.

>>53005977
>No buzz to ban twin
This was during that period that they were just banning things that got above a certain percentage of played decks. Birthing pod got the same treatment.

>>53003515
Unlikely, beyond the monocolored decks already present. But we'll see more two color decks and less three color decks, in all likelihood. Not by a huge margin, but the change will be there.

>>53006007
it's not a pinger it's an aristocrat. and the minotaur could always be bumped down to a 1/2 or costed at 1R.

people always take card concepts too specifically instead of looking at the idea.

>>53006090
Birthing pod was actually a somewhat problematic card unlike twin though.

>>53006112
>aristocrat
it's really more of a syphoner. the aristocrats are the sac outlets in their namesake deck.

>>53006112
The spirit has no clause against "fail to find" so it is either drain one or swing two. It would be better if it was you searching but then it doesnt do anything. An aristocrat is a creature that sacrifices for a positive, temporary effect

>>53006138
Birthing pod was huge because it was a toolbox but the deck was plagued with issues with consistency if it faced hate. It was played around 30% of one GP if I remember correctly but it didnt get a disproportionate amount of top 8 spots.

>>53006239
It's still a problematic card that only gets better with every good creature they print. Not only that but the consistent toolbox approach is kind of busted. I liked pod as much as the next guy but it had to go.

>>53006351
Hmm if only there was a way to make more cards that hose ETB effects! Hmm...

>>53006515
>implying that they would ever print something for modern
>implying they would hose Timmy's epic etb
Ebin

>>53006677
I just shed a single tear.

>>53006677
Holy shit stop using Timmy as a scapegoat for ANYTHING
ETB creature's are spike's fetish if anything

>>53007121
Really, Timmy would be more excited by something with a big on-upkeep effect.
Who cares about getting something ONCE when you can get it EVERY TURN?

>>53007121
Spike's fetish would be a turn 1 mana dork, turn 2 eldritch into a hatebear that stops the most wide-spread deck in the meta.

>>53008083
No, Spike's real fetish is a single card, and that's Fact or Fiction

>>53007684
Yeah, make Staying Power a legal card.

File: Image (1).jpg (34KB, 223x310px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 223x310px

>>53008709
Unhinged had some broken cards

>>53000318
I would shed no tears at a fetch ban, mostly because perfect mana + constant shuffling is a delightful recipe for pure cancer. However, a ban would be a really dumb idea, as by now they are a part of the image of eternal formats. Banning fetches is an idea as dumb as banning FoW in legacy, ie it would immediately cut interest in the format into a fraction of what it was, and tournament attendance would plummet. I would love to live in a world with no fetches, but that's just not a feasible idea. If you want a format without fetches, you're stuck with standard, which may finally be not-terrible again with the damn cat gone.

If fetchlands are hit out out of modern the sheer amount of asshurt may actually end the game. It's not quite like Legacy where a T1 and smaller more irrelevant decks are dead, every single manabase in a competitive modern deck is now gone, and people easily spend ~300 dollars on manabases alone.

>>53001302
underrated post

>>53000318
Not a single Frontier side event has fired at GPs since they became an option.
Paper Pauper and Duel Commander are more real than Frontier.

>>53003896
The day fakes become good they'll be sold as real cards, Chinese aren't retarded, they won't sell you a 100% passing Black Lotus for $2

>>53006069
Why don't you have people to be able to play 4c funstuff other than you yourself not having a good manabase and being a poorfag?
The new CEO wants Magic to be an esport in the near future and being able to cast your shit is way more exiting to watch than losing to being mana/colorscrewed.

>>53006239
It won 5/6 Modern Pro Tours. It was better than Miracles was in Legacy.

Neat, I'll run panoramas instead then...

>>53010662
why not? Nobody will buy them if they sell them at market price for the real card, thats retarded. They might increase the price a bit, but cards are dirt cheap for them to produce. They'll be making money anyway, there is no need to gouge their consumers and risk people going somewhere else

Fetchlands are cancerous. I don't even care about removing them from old formats, but when wotc makes their "post-modern" format in a few years (as stated by multiple wotc employees) they won't be included.

They're extremely powerful, so most players will immediately throw a fit about losing them, but now that top is gone they're the single worst card(s) for magic. They add far too much dead time to games and interact too well with too many mechanics.

If you can't admit they're more of a problem than a plus you're literally deluding yourself.

>>53011282
Don't be retarded.
Why would they sell 52k 100% passable Verdant Catacombs for $2M instead of $52K? Because they can and they're not retarded.
People buying fakes are not "their cosumers", they're a trash dump for the waste they produce while attempting to create forgeries that can be sold at full price.

>>53011403
>t. fags who don't have fetchlands
Go play Standard. Or does Evolving Wilds trigger you too?

>>53011403
eh, they are fine when the only things they can fetch out are basics. The problem is fetchable duals. If fetches said "basic island" instead of just island, or if no duals had basic land types, fetches would just be another dual land with a downside. As is, though, yes fetches are by far the most powerful land type in magic and probably should not exist. Unfortunately, older formats have completely warped around them to the point which I honestly have no idea what a modern/legacy would look like without fetches. I will also say that I think fetches were a mistake for power level reasons, not because fetching and shuffling takes too much time. Same thing with top, any competent player never went to time with top because they knew what the hell they were doing.

>>53011697
Have you been to thailand/vietnam/whatever other southeast asian shithole that sells counterfeits? Even the best fake rolex doesn't sell for the price of a rolex. Nobody will pay full price for a counterfeit when it costs the same as the real thing. That's the whole fucking point of a counterfeit

>>53011746
Shut up MaRo.

>>53011806
Because it's still sold as a fake.
It seems the one who hasn't had experience with forgery is you.
Everyone knows about the classic car clone market and a lot of collectors actually buy clones on purpose so they can drive them while leaving their invaluable originals safe at home. But nobody speaks about the modern car refactionary forgeries and how you might just be driving a car that's 80% fake while having paid for it as if it was original, untill you need to take it to the shop and get your insurance voided for driving with piracy.

>>53011868
Thats not the same at all. People buy fake magic cards because they are poor and can't afford real cards. They want specifically to pass them off as real. Nobody with a playset of underground seas is going to buy a playset of fakes just so they can leave their real ones at home.

>>53011949
You're not getting the point, tard.
The crap will continue to be sold as "passable fakes" but as soon as chinamen make real undistinguishable forgeries, those won't be sold as fake, those will hit ebay and big store buylists as the real deal and nobody will thing anything's wrong until the ammount of fethlands in stock is way too suspiciously high to be real.

>>53004422
kys

>>53012053
Wouldn't the supply > demand and therefore cost cheaper?

>>53012053
that wouldn't even be bad, either wizards is forced to reprint everything with the holo stamp and ban everything else or prices crash to point of fakes not being necessary to begin with.

>>53012192
>>53012307
I never said undistinguishable fakes would be bad for players in the long run.

I converted all my fetches so they have the holo sticker stamped to and I would approve of them being removed entirely from modern. Even with counterfits not being a problem the gameplay they present is problematic at best and too powerful at worst. Fetches should only be legal in formats where stifle effects are viable.

>>53012192
No, when you can print an indistinguishable $100 bill, you have the incentive to control the supply.

>>53013533
Do you though? Would it be worth slowly getting rid of the forgeries in order for them to maintain value when you could dump large amounts of them if you reduce the price? Sure, you could gradually sell a few underground seas a week on ebay, or you could sell them for half the price to a bunch of different places, tanking the price but you also made much more money in a shorter span of time. Especially for something like magic cards where each card's price is almost completely independent from another one. I don't know, but I feel like it would be slightly different than currency.

>>53001934
make d&t then, toughguy!

>>53011697
This. In fact, there might already be indistinguishable fakes and nobody would be the wiser.

>>53013667
That's also the way to get caught.
Never do crime for your own good.

File: IMG_20170502_140622399_HDR.jpg (3MB, 2340x4160px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2340x4160px

how much would you pay for pic related?
alter by eric claar

>>53019415
>badly drawn 2007 normie memes
I'd pay with a fart from my ass, thank you very much

>>53019415
Less than the actual Anger price, that drawing is terrible and the blood and 300 text are barely good

>>53019415
I wouldn't.

>>53017630
I don't suck enough cock for that.

>>53019415

What a fucking piece of garbage