Dungeons and Dragons is Bad

You're not wrong.

But would you mind suggesting something else, and why you prefer it to D&D?

>>52998242
>System
Which one, give reasons for why you dislike it and we'll recommend something to play that'll help solve those problems you have.
>Setting
Literally which one, faggot, do you mean the primary one that Wizards of the Coast/Paizo supports for each system or a specific niche one you don't like?
>bad game
Subjective, again, what do you dislike about the game? If you tell us, maybe we'll have an actual conversation about finding you a system/game that fits your taste, faggot.

Or you know, stop killing threads to whine about D&D when you can just stop playing it and play something else. It's not perfect, but some people like to play it and they have every right to enjoy it. Just play something else, for fuck's sake.

>>52998242
OK, and?

I disagree

>>52998550
/thread

My players and I like it and that's all that matters.

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BAIT

>>52998242
This is not a matter of opinion.
This is not a subject of debate.

There is an objective standard of quality lacking from the base setting and rules system.

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>>52998242
Then don't play it.

>>52998242
It's not a system.
It's not a setting.
It's not a game.

It's a brand.

>>52998242
Okay, but it's fun and people enjoy it. Who gives a shit?

"D&D" isn't even a setting, idiot.

>>53000133
This is a common misconception.
It's not fun, it's popular. And because it's popular, people have learned how to have fun in spite of it to justify its popularity.

Troll thread

>>53000187
Oh fuck you're right, I was only fooling myself into having fake fun.

Fuck off retard

>>53000203
Your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.
You were not fooling yourself into having fake fun.
You were fooling yourself into thinking you were having fun because of D&D instead of in spite of D&D.

>>52998242
Is epic.
IS FUCKING EPIC I KILL EVERYONE HERE.

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>>52998242
Its a bad opinion

>>52998242
>Its a bad system.
The systems do what they set out to do, although 3.5 is bloated, a lot of players like that.
Previous editions are an artifact of their times. They were testing the waters, and still have some good sides when played today.

>Its a bad setting.
All the editions, except for supplement books and campaign modules, are not bound by any settings.

>Its a bad game
That's wholly subjective.

Okay cool

>>52998266
Not that guy, but Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay circa 1989.

>expect le /tg/ to betray us, the fellow D&DGOOOOODSS!!!!!!!
>they don't
FUCKING
YEEEESSSSSS
SLAAAAAAY QUEEEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>53000123
THIS. You fucking idiot.

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>>52998242
I like the setting a lot.

>>53000253
STAB THE MONKEY. SHOVE HIS SKULL IN A MEAT GRINDER AND WATCH HIM SCREECH IN AGONY WHILE YOU RAPE HIS ASS. MAKE ORANGE CHICKEN OUT OF HIS MONKEYMEAT. FUCK THE PARTICIPLE I CONSUME THE FLESH RAW AND WRIGGLING AND REAGAN.

>>53000253
Who are you to say why he was having fun?

>>53001203
He's not, I am. No one is to enjoy themselves without my permission, and I say everyone in this thread needs to be even more miserable than they already are, which is why I'm going to shit up the thread with my Weapons-grade Autism until it's an unbearable cringey mess.

Good luck.

>>53000187
Let's say you're right and the only reason I enjoy it is because I've learned how. That doesn't make the fun and enjoyment I get out of it invalid. It still entertains me, regardless of how I got to that entertainment.

>>53001296
Yes, but you were still doing it wrong. Everyone does it wrong. You need a perfectly round table so you can stick your finger up the ass of person to your right. Also the proper ceremonial garb is required, which means you're all Going to need to invest heavily in crushed velvet, and you'll need to purchase a replica of Mike Meyer's Dick in order to discipline players, but Bad Dragon merchandise will do if you're a cheap pleb.

>>52998242
OP is a gentleman and a scholar.
Rolemaster 100x better

>>53001368
What the hell are you even talking about? Did you escape from your group home again?

*casts*

>>52998242
It's a bad thread I don't even like D&D but these threads are atrocious

4e was a good game.

Then again, according to the D&D fanbase, that made it not 'real' D&D.

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>>52998242

I only know of the setting, and I agree. It's too autistic.

I love this thread. It's a bait thread and every post is also bait. It's a flock of wolves thread.

>Bad Setting

Unless you're doing something that depends heavily on the setting like a Ravenloft campaign does anyone really care? Most times the it's just some custom built/tweaked fantasy setting.

>>53001523
Let's have a stealth 4e thread. I liked it the best besides 1e.
Nothing will ever beat 1e and I honestly wish they'd sto trying. 5e (they weren't going to call it that, remember? lol) is just fucking bad all around. 4e tried to fix caster supremacy but fuck that, fuck letting martials ever be good. Let's go back to shitty 3.xdhiyfvj paradigms. It didn't make work then! It's not working now, despite your stellar sales. This shit Twinkie sells like hotcakes and that's the worst part.

>>53001573
Or a school of sharks smelling blood in the water

>>53001438
I didn't escape. I Woke up one morning to find that the entire property had been sold and condemned. This is the fourth time that's happened and I don't know why. Maybe I should stop molesting the patients and switch to the name brand peanut butter.

>>53001624
They'd stop* trying
Sorry tg. My coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

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>>53000187

>>53001635
No, we're a pack of autists who sense when someone says something wrong on the internet, but we're unable to detect whether it's deliberate. I however have gone one step further and criticize the act of correcting someone else while I myself am still correcting someone else, making it wonderfully hypocritical. Except that I'm pointing this out, which instead makes it meta-humor, which I can then build a fortress of autism and bullshit around.

>>53001635
There wouldn't be blood in the water if d&d had good devs. Pf, as shitty as it is, showed wotc the most how bad it hurts a company to have their market shook under them. Wake up call to wotc. There's always been competition to d&d (white wolf comes to mind as being pretty successful, GW as well, Steve Jackson has tremendous success with Munchkin) so to see them stop acting like their devs opinions are the only opinions that matter would be fucking great. Listen to your fanbase, assholes!!

>>53001752
No, don't listen to them. They still conceptualize using their meat-brains which are unreliable unable to provide feasible evidence for most of reality according to their worldview. How do they even know if they're having fun besides what the chemicals in their brain tell them. No, far better to consult the psychic fruits from beyond k-Mart in order to achieve truly correct system development.

>>52998242
Ok.

>>53001624
>>53001654

I actually learned a really interesting thing the other day. Not exactly new, but it highlights an implicit problem with the D&D 3.PF way of doing things.

The Pathfinder core book? Has 148 pages of spells. Significantly more than any other individual section.

Even if martial classes were exactly as powerful, or even more powerful, than magic users, the sheer difference in options and versatility is overwhelming. The design is so obviously, heavily skewed towards them at every level it makes Caster Supremacy entirely unsurprising.

>>53001828
Master Casters, like Master Debaters, need to have expert use of handling their rod in order to attain fulfillment by their own hands.

>>52998990
I disagree.
>>53000187
>I speak for literally everyone on this board
Still not grown up enough to realize that sometimes people have tastes that aren't yours, huh? Hopefully you get there one day, kiddo.

>>53001859
I have autism so the concept of other people being individuals is more of a philosophical discussion than a factual statement.

>>53001907

As someone else with autism, go fuck yourself. You don't get to blame your conditions for you personally being an asshole.

>>53001916
No, but I get to post bullshit statements in a bullshit thread in order to make the thread as unpleasant an experience as possible in order to make it truly cringeworthy and try and bring /tg/ to a state of self-awareness that arguing over bait is simply not worth it.

>>53001964
That's extremely self defeating and your wasting you're time

>>53002061
Yes, but better yet, I'm wasting everyone else's as well!

>Dungeons & Dragons
>A setting
You had one job.

>>53001859
>>I speak for literally everyone on this board
But they weren't implying that at all you lying jackass, they were just expressing an opinion. God
I hate this shitty argument.

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>>53002084
Noooot really but ok my friend. Have a picture.

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You know, you could be right.

And yet....

>>53002112
How shitty is the argument on a scale of 1 through 10?

>>53002144
No, see, the futility of my efforts is itself a statement about the futility of posting in a bait thread. By failing but continuing to post anyway I'm only succeeding in making the thread worse. That I'm self-aware about it and point it out only furthers the level of unpleasantness, especially since I've started waxing philosophical about it.

>>53002369
Lol. You're certainly allowed to think that. Have fun with it! Play until the wheels fall off, Mr rock and roll Junior.

I like d&d a lot. Is it the best thing running? Nope! I'm ok with that, too!!! Bait averted!!!

>>53002369
I guess I'm just really desperate for people to listen to me and earn their approval. Being accepted by a community is and earning their approval are important to me.

>>53002531
Now, see, that's the crux of our problem. /tg/ works best when no one cares what others think, we just post things because we think it's cool or interesting, and aren't mean-spirited about it all.

Anon, what you need is real friends and a real group, not /tg/.

>>53001916
I'm pretty sure that was sarcastic... although I can't tell because I also have autism. Would appreciate it if a neurotypical helped me out here.

>>53002652
For more severe cases of autism this is actually true, but in this case I was being sarcastic to hijack the conversation. I wasn't even the guy he replied to originally.

>>53002706
I could tell that, I just wanted to see if literally everyone in this thread had autism.

>>53002741
I do like to spin so there's that.

>>53002741

It's very common amongst people involved in traditional games.

I heard a theory that it provides structure to social engagements. Autistic people usually still enjoy the company of others, to a greater or lesser extent, but doing so is often draining and confusing given the complex rules of social engagement and the risks implicit in them.

Having a game to play, whether an RPG or a board game, creates a simpler set of rules to govern the social situation. It helps you calm down and enjoy social engagement because you have the rules of the game as a frame of reference for what's happening, leaving you feeling less lost or confused.

It's just a theory, there haven't been any studies done, but it fits my personal experience very well.

>>53002741
Well, I'm a diagnosed Sperg, so yeah, maybe, though I believe the breakdown is more like 30% have mental disorders, including Generalized Anxiety, Depression, etc.

>>53002790
This too. Rpgs are System Mechanics and Narrative, the two things we happen to hyperfocus on. Combine that with people who we can share our interests and discuss with, and it's basically the perfect environment to teach us how to actually socialize. I don't think I would have gotten my current girlfriend if interacting with my friends and D&D group hadn't prepped me for social interaction.

>>52998242
>Its a bad system.
>Its a bad setting.
>Its a bad game.
First, here:
' ' '
You dropped these.

Second,
>It's bad
So is movie theater artificial butter flavored popcorn topping.
So what?

>>53001203
A former player of multiple editions of D&D who has had and still has the opportunity to personally observe and interact with a multitude of current and former D&D players.

>>53001296
So?
How does that relate to my post?
Again, there is no mention of "fake fun" whatsoever.

>>53005142
>>53005063
You have no authoritative standpoint here while you still claim to think using your meat-brains. As I said here, >>53001804
, your viewpoints on reality are tenuous at best and therefore unreliable.

I play fantasy craft, stopped playing D&D when I discovered there were other systems and that I didn't have to be shit just because I chose monk, rogue or similar classes.

>>53005469
how is fantasy craft compared to DND 5E AND 3.5PF

>>53006645
Compared to 3.PF it has a similar level of character options but almost no balance problems (there're some, but are minimal compared to 3.PF ones)

Compared to 5e is more complex and crunchy.

>>53006699
is it more crunchy than 3.5?

>>53006699
You forgot the part about NO FUCKING SUPPORT EVER.

>>53002112
>It's not fun, it's popular
>Screeches "ur wrong and ur a fagget!" at anyone who states that they have personally had fun with the system
Yeah, they are making that argument. Anyone who says they've had fun is really just deluding themselves into THINKING they're having fun, according to the person you're defending.

>>52998242
>Its a bad system.
No.
>Its a bad setting.
No.
>Its a bad game.
No.

>>53001113
>5e planes
Terrible taste. I could even have forgiven liking the Great Wheel.

>>52998242
WTF I love bad things now.

>>52998242
85 replies to a literal bait thread. This board has no awareness or self-control.

>>53010334
Well thanks for bumping it, asshole.

>>53010334
/tg/ lost the ability to turn bait threads good but maintained the inability to let shit go.

Truly, this is the worst timeline.

>>52998990
But it's fine as a gamist system. I just don't want gamist fantasy.

>>53001574
>Unless you're doing something that depends heavily on the setting like a Ravenloft campaign does anyone really care?
how can anyone really believe this? how can anyone not comprehend that the immersiveness of a world depends on how well the different parts fit?

>>53007142
>>53009751
wtf i love D&D now

>>52998242
Good for you.
I'm still going to play it.

>>53007108
>Anyone who says they've had fun is really just deluding themselves into THINKING they're having fun, according to the person you're defending.
Only if you lack basic reading comprehension.
Anyone who says they've had fun because of D&D (note the last part) is really just deluding themselves into THINKING they were having fun because of D&D, when they were actually having fun in spite of D&D.

>>53000187
Strange. When my friends and I get together to play, we have fun. I'd wonder if we had a problem, but it makes more sense for you to be a fucking retard.

>>53017655
And another anon without a shred of reading comprehension.

>>52998242

Which setting? There is so god damn many it's not funny. From Iron Kingdoms to Krynn to Planescape...

I've more seen it as Babby's first game.

Players don't want to learn about lore. This is the generic "It doesn't matter that you know shit all about lore, go bash some monsters and get some loot" game.

Also for GMs who can't be arsed to read about lore and simply want to inject their own take on a fantasy setting.

>>53000253
That.

>>53017655
You're not having fun because you're playing D&D. You're having fun in spite of this broken, illogical, stupid slog of a game.

Sure, playing with friends is fun! You even managed to have fun in spite of playing one of the worst game of the market. Congratulation.

>>53000187

How would you define what makes a game fun to thus make D&D not that?

>>52998242
Would you care to elaborate?

>>53019118
>You're not having fun because you're playing D&D. You're having fun in spite of this broken, illogical, stupid slog of a game.

Hey D&D 4e is a very logical and rather well balanced game.

Seriously, this thread feels like 'I only know 3.5'. When did D&D stop meaning D&D and start meaning 3.5 only?

>>53017655
>we have fun

great

fun does not make something good

>>53001828
It's not like every caster has access to every spell, but I do agree that that sheer mass of options and the system's vulnerability to synergies is a problem.
There are some obvious options of course.
The draconian one is to take out PC casters entirely. I've played in perfectly good campaigns where nobody wanted to play a caster so nobody did and it worked fine. Some caster support can be good, like some guy pumping out potions at base.
No full casters. I've played with this as a rule and it works fine.
No asshole casters. Yes, we can all read a charop forum or figure out the less insane shit for ourselves, doesn't mean we have to do it. I've done that too, it's easy to be useful as a druid without being a zilla and everyone gets to have fun.
I realize these are all workarounds, but most systems have something that just doesn't work.

>>53019149
it does if that is the point of the 'thing'
it means its doing its job

>>52998242
All systems are inherently flawed because they are dependent upon other people not being dicks.

>>53019143
>When did D&D stop meaning D&D and start meaning 3.5 only?
Around 4th I'd say.

>>53019149
/tg/ in a nutshell

>>53019156

For most systems, 'what doesn't work' doesn't include the largest and most developed chunk of the system.

Although I was more surprised by the sheer bias in the design philosophy than the imbalance it creates. It kinda shows that caster supremacy as a balance issue wasn't just a quirk or accident of design, but a direct side effect of the game being designed by people who loved the magic system and put the vast majority of their work into it.

>>53020373
>people who loved the magic system and put the vast majority of their work into it.

You kid yourself if you think they put in any work for that shit. They just ported over everything they could think of, then removed all the restrictions they considered unfun. No testing was done above level 6-7 or so.