/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

Reminder feats and multiclass were mistakes and should be banned

Have you done anything interesting in your last sessions, /5eg/?

Our paladin inaugurated a temple of Bane.
>>52996156
>Banning optional rules.
ye dummy

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yall mind if I drop this story now?

>5e
>playing with group for a few months
>some are better than others and we don't go without arguments from our very own that guy but never anything worth a story until a new kid came who wanted to get into DnD after seeing stranger things
>team consisted of paladin, warlock, dex EK, barbarian and str monk
>pretty unorthodox team but it really adds to the fun
>the new guy came in and made an arcane trickster
>half our team is true neutral with a few lawful neutrals on the side as most of the team didn't care about alignments, paladin is of course lawful good and the warlock was neutral evil but very calm and never displayed his character in town or when with the party.
>new guy is chaotic neutral, this usually wouldn't mean anything at my table but trust me it's important
>party is currently in downtime as they are going to be sent to another country by the crown to conduct a mission, but before I send the new guy into the deep end of session long RP, we pause the downtime session and the party takes up an errand to rid a hamlet of a land shark issue
>characters introduce themselves to the new guy
>paladin steps up and talks about his duty to his god
>new guy starts going full "sceptical mcbigbrainium" and starts calling the paladin an idiot for believing in the gods
>explain to him that it would be hard for his character to completely disbelieve in the gods seeing as holy magic is the most celebrated form of magic and paladins are pretty much the super heroes of the era
>yeah my character still doesn't believe it
do you want your character to be someone angry at the gods or something and denies them
>NO my character doesn't believe in the gods, anyone could use magic and say it's from god
>HMM that’s not bad we can compromise and make this work
>okay how about your character thinks it's all fake and believes in a religious conspiracy?
>everyone’s happy we continue

>>52996167
>Our paladin inaugurated a temple of Bane.

how big for you was it?

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>>52996194

>monk and barbarian are great friends and the monk introduces the barbarian and himself
>monk is a goliath with a 9ft pole and barbarian is a huge woman with a hammer
>monk says don't worry about the woman, she is more than capable of handling herself, she's been approved by me. no one gets into the group without impressing me first
>new guy goes on about how he's seen many woman that could beat the goliath up
>goes on about how the goliath is ignorant pretty much saying everything to make his character feel out of place in the setting other than calling the monk sexist
>monk is chill and just acts interested and says he'd like to meet the people he mentioned one day
>monk plays a kind of joking peacekeeper who tries to keep everyone in line and makes sure the party is running smoothly despite being the main cause of conflict at any point.
>it's a running joke and we all enjoy it except maybe the paladin which is kinda that guy but we don't mind him
>introductions are over and we get to the hamlet
>rogue starts talking about payment
>town is too poor to pay
>rogue starts threatening the mayor to pay up
>paladin intercepts and says that we can speak of payment when the job is done
>right after the mayor explains the situation and how the land sharks sense movement the rogue suggests that they use livestock to draw them out
>the mayor explains that they don't have any livestock left and that they would have to think of another way
>the rogue suggests that they use a baby as bait
>everyone jumps in and tells the mayor that he's joking, new guy starts laughing and says that it's an effective way to draw them out and that if the mayor wants to get rid of i he'll do as he says
>mayor walks away as he has nothing else to say as I’m too tired to muster up the energy to respond to such a stupid request appropriately

Building a Knight because I like big guys in plate. The way I see it my options are V.Human with Shield Master or Quarterstaff + Shield PAM.

Thoughts?

>>52996167
Is it a big following?

>>52996194
Again, yes, holy magic doesn't require gods, at least on 5e's standard.

>>52996233
Get the sentinel feat and tunnel fighter as fighting style

>>52996233
If you're a knight sword and board is the way to go.
Shield master so you can block dragon breath is a must.

>>52996205
>the battle with the land shark is over, the warlock being the new guys friend focused him with supporting spells and the rogue managed to output a lot more damage than anyone else
>rogue goes to ask for payment, mayor gathers everyone in town to scrape coin together to pay the party
>party gets around 30 gold pieces and a retired dwarf cleric gives up his old plate armour
>paladin refuses to take a cut and convinces the dwarf not to give it up as it was a memory of his service,
>rogue freaks out and asks for a payment from the paladin
>monk steps in and tells him that if he doesn't start calming down that he'll have to put him in his place
>rogue goes full retard and thinks that a realistic answer to that threat is to try and put a dagger to the monks neck
>rolls against the monk and manages to get to his neck and hold the dagger to it but EK casts thunderwave and knocks them both to the ground
>barbarian says that they should duel it out, first to draw blood, monk says he'd prefer first to knock the other to the ground as he doesn’t want to hurt him too bad
>rogue agrees
>monk has 20 strength
>quickly picks him up and slams him on the ground
>issue is resolved and everyone is okay

>>52996156
>the only thing that makes martials competitive should be banned

>>52996205
A baby is a terrible idea.
You need a man in plate stomping on a plank.
>>52996200
I'm not even sure being there was part of my plan.
>>52996237
A whole big town, if you live in a small town or a village, it would be a big following for you.

>>52996156
How long have you been autistic and retarded?

>>52996272
>>52996205
That rogue is a special kind of retard and I hope he fucks up soon.

>>52996276
>the only thing that makes martials competitive
martials are totally viable AND fun just as they are

>>52996205
I mean, for a neutral evil character, 'use a baby as bait' is a valid proposition, but everything the rogue has been doing puts them on pretty much 'chaotic evil', which by 5e's standards mostly just means 'selfish fucker.'

Considering these things could just up and fuck someone in the party over and everybody would be even in more shit, for a more heartless person using a baby as bait sounds like a better proposition than using the people keeping the town safe as bait. Not gauranteed the baby would die anyway.
Main problem is babies don't move much, so he should have said us-
Yeah, he was being edgy. He should have said 'use a child as bait'. Idiot.

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>>52996272

>sessions ends and new guy approaches me and starts talking about how much he hates paladins.
it's just your first time you'll get used to it
>nah paladins seem to just ruin the fun
he was just roleplaying his character, he's just trying to stay true to the setting
>he takes it too seriously
>tired of his shit and just confront him
desu I think you should take it more seriously. your character doesn't feel like he would survive a week in my world, and if you keep fighting with the party one of them will probably just kill you and make you reroll a character.
>guy doesn't turn up for next session

>skip to now
>wants to play again with the same character
>this time wants to bring his GF


nothing wrong with him bringing another person but i'm afraid it's just going to be someone to enable him.

pretty much everyone commented on how much of a kill joy he was other than the warlock and shocking the paladin but what should I do the warlock really like this guy and he's honestly the best in the party, should I suffer this new guy just to make the warlock happy?

>>52996259
okay cool.
so?
where did it say that the paladin needed the gods?
are you implying that holy crusaders can't be relgious?

>>52996167

Made out with a cute wizard in an extra dimensional space.

>>52996263
y tho

You get basic versions of those in the class already. Like, it wouldn't justify the overlap.

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Question, just had to pay out a fire between a dm and player due to a call on unearthed arcana and stat distribution...
>told to make characters and send sheet to dm for checks before game (offline creation)
>dm gets one players pagee and my page.
>balanced.jpg
>last player sends page...
>"rolled" such good stats his lowest stat was a 13... And had 2 18's @lvl 1
>assumed unearthed arcana revised ranger was allowed without asking dm
>powergame.jpg
>dm looks at all 3, tells powergamer that revised ranger defeats purpose of his campaign's focus on exploration and travel, and that we all needed to use pointbuy instead.
>powergamer rages because normal ranger is "shit and wizards says so in the revised pdf"
>double rage because he can't have another character that is overpowered as fuck (4 short campaigns, alway has "too good to be true stats" but different dm let slide
>shitwontflysolidsnake.gif
>raged more and isn't allowed to play and we don't start session 0 that week
>still have to fight him to say how phb ranger isn't garbage...

Is it just me or is phb ranger weak because most dm's don't use the mechanics the ranger has to make it a great rp class? Or do people just want stat buffs over rp?

>>52996321
They can be religious, but a paladin's power doesn't come from gods, and therefore you can't say 'Oh, but paladins exist, so gods must exist!'

>>52996304
You sound like you've got a lot of players. Telling him he can rejoin is okay but you'd prefer not to take on another player is a perfectly valid reason not to let the girlfriend join the game.
You are the DM, it's your call.

>>52996304

You're the DM, don't let either of them in.

>>52996263
Now this is probably the most effective way to do it.

>>52996268
This feels much more flavorful though. Something about being a guy who takes it back to basics with a Longsword and a Shield feels so right.

Even though I might not get much use from it I might end up taking Mounted Combatant just to let my horse survive in fights. Shame there's no way to get my horse to survive saving throws.

>>52996341
Revised ranger should be allowed. Even the people who made the fucking rulebook say that.
Also druid and PHB ranger also destroy all 'survival' aspects, but it is a valid reason to disallow those classes (or specifically to nerf those aspects of those classes)

However
>Rolling for stats
>Especially while not at the table

>>52996341
>>52996367
Also while I'm here you're fucking wrong
PHB ranger is a joke
I mean, come on. Where's your justification?
You might as well go dex fighter, warlock, ranged rogue or any other form of ranged combat.

Everybody else here on the internet will tell you it's shit. Especially beastmaster ranger. ESPECIALLY beastmaster ranger. They got lazy when they made ranger, they didn't even give ranger archetypes proper names, just 'archetypes', with some lame description like 'you chosoe an archetype I guess'.

>>52996341
unless every magic-using class is banned, expecting to challenge a party while spells that create fire, water, and purify food are cantrips is moronic

>>52996341
UA Revised Ranger should be allowed because it frontloads some stats that Ranger could use, has there be a crunch benefit towards attacking your Favored Enemy type, and fixes the Beastmaster issue that the PHB Ranger has.

If the Ranger is going Hunter/Slayer Ranger and not Beastmaster, then the PHB one is fine, they'll just miss a couple points of damage from Favored Enemy.

>>52996341
1: UA Ranger is fine, you could try subtly suggesting the DM work with him to make it fit the campaign BUT
2: Rolling for stats is bullshit, tell the player to cut that shit out and point-buy.

There, compromises for both sides.

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Any suggestions on how to make DnD 5e more fun as a player?

Current DM is boring and it takes forever to accomplish anything - so what little roleplaying things can I do to have fun while I wait for the 10-minute conversations with every NPC ever to finish or when the party splits and the DM spends 20 mins with the one guy who decided to leave everyone else?

I've tried keeping a journal of what we are doing and taking detailed notes, but that's been fairly dull.

>>52996420
Get a better DM.
How's it boring? 5e is a system that really requires the DM to be on point.

>>52996345

To build on what this anon said, it is well within your right to not allow the girlfriend.

How likely is it that if she doesn't join, the problem player will leave the game?

How likely is it then, that if the problem player doesn't come back, that your Warlock leaves as well?

>>52996341
It's a little bit of both to be honest.
PHB ranger is mostly weak because DM's don't use the mechanics it excels at, but it also has some really underwhelming abilities to be honest.
Favored enemy is shit if they don't appear in the campaign, and even if they do appear it's really kind of weak.

To be honest, the only thing they should take out from revised ranger to make it a bit more balanced is one of the following:
>advantage on initiative
>advantage against those you go before in the initiative order
Together it's a little too good. Separate they're just fine. That said, move one of them back to a later level and you can keep them both in, no problem. But to have them both so early is pretty powerful.

Also natural explorer feels much better and much more useful than it ever was before. Again, having to pick a favored terrain can either make you very relevant or it will never come up. It usually is the later unless the DM tells you what terrain would be best or you have some other meta knowledge going in.

As for revised beastmaster, it's much much better. Just don't allow multiclassing with it and you're good.

I have a UA beastmaster in the game I run (I let us convert his old PHB ranger 5 sessions in) and it works pretty well. No glaring issues, and because the animal companion can be restored back to life, there's much less fear of him dying so they actually try to use them in combat which is great. I hated having phb beast masters that would have a bear or something and they'd never go into combat.

>>52996420
>Any suggestions on how to make DnD 5e more fun as a player?
Yeah, talk to your DM. He shouldn't be spending ages on one guy when the party splits. Even mine bounces to each player every minute and it's his first time DMing.

>>52996343
>spells that let you talk directly to the gods
>m-maybe they're making it all up

in the dark ages pretty much everyone believed in god. how much do you think that would be amplified by if holy magic and communal with the gods was a thing

>>52996420
Talk with the DM out of game, maybe see if you can get more info. out of the lore of his game/setting for you to focus on for roleplay moments, see if there isn't anything you can have your character latch onto.

Other things you can do include describing little 'slice of life' scenes while the other players chat up the NPCs.

>>52996394
Yeah, I'm with this guy.
UA Ranger should be allowed, even if the case was poorly made. On both sides. Frankly, a lot of backgrounds, abilities and spells trivialize survival/exploration in a mechanical sense. If there are specific things that the DM feels are campaign breaking, he should have said so earlier, or simply downplay their effectiveness.
Rolling for stats and whining? Nah, screw him. Using Revised ranger? Sure.

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>>52996420
Pick up a copy of KM Weiland's book "Creating Character Arcs" and work on developing your character. Or just look up details on how to do good characters for fiction. ebook version is like $4 and it's a quality book.

It's very satisfying to polish the finer details of your character in such a way that they come to life as their own thing, and it can breath a spark into an otherwise dull campaign. Be the light that you want to see in others.

>>52996341
>"rolling" for stats
Your DM is beyond retarded if he ever thought this was a good idea.

>>52996304
You are the dm, imho I feel he will bring an enabler because that is what couples do... Not to mention the "only I can help her cus she's my gf" mentality I fear would arise. Cus if this casual carl gets butt hurt over a player roleplaying well like that player wants, he seems like the type to be selfish and wouldn't want others to help his gf.
Don't risk it man. I wouldn't trust bringing my own gf to table honestly, I would play totally different. It is safer to protect your game and the game over a chance for it to be upstaged. And uostaging a dm is... Bad

>>52996364
Do it. Be the valiant hero. It's really pretty damn satisfying.

>>52996408
>expecting to challenge a party while spells that create fire, water, and purify food are cantrips is moronic

>Fire is a non-issue as everyone and their mother has a tinderbox.
>Create or Destroy Water is a 1st level spell
>Purify Food and Drink is a 1st level spell

Please check the facts before spouting bullshit

>>52996450
Aside from divine intervention which would have to be explained as a lower level wish, you can reflavour those abilities slightly. Aside from that, I recall an anon saying that 'paladins and clerics aren't even sure where they get their power from anymore', at least with regards to the whole AO and removing objective alignments and FR and shit.
And then 5e gives various pantheons of gods and clerics only go into a domain rather than definite gods, so if your setting lacked gods it'd still be possible to have clerics.

>>52996460
The only time I allow rolling for stats is when I and the players are aware that this is going to be a high fantasy, 'playing THE heroes of a generation' game; literally, you roll for stats to become Gandalf, Aragon, Gimli, Legolas, etc., because the shit I'm gonna throw at you will require every bit of minmaxing you can do. And even then those campaigns only last a few sessions because the players get bored of the characters and want to play something that's not as overpowered.

>>52996475
Even if it's not a cantrip, a druid or cleric can change their spells at dawn if you need water or food.

>>52996472
It'll feel good being able to be super Lawful Good and unlike a Paladin I don't do it just because I have to.

Any suggestions on ways to get across I'm "holier than thou" other then giving any gold I don't need to the commonfolk?

>>52996364
>Shame there's no way to get my horse to survive saving throws.

Doesn't Mounted Combatant's last effect let the mount take no damage from succeeded DEX saves and only half damage from failed DEX saves?

>>52996457
Different anon here, but I'm interested in this book.
Thanks for mentioning it.

I struggle a bit in my own games to create compelling arcs for some of my players. But then again, this is our first really long campaign and isn't so player character centric as far as plot goes since they didn't put a ton of thought into their first characters.

Still, working on creativity is always a plus.

>>52996507

Plenty of AOE spells that aren't dex saves. Upcast a shatter and bye bye horsie.

>>52996341

the ranger in general asks the dm to center the campaign around it to work as intended and that is extra shitty design. if your favored terrain and enemy doesn't appear, if your campaign is not about exploration and wilderness survival, all those features get wasted.
even their combat modes can easily get wasted, colossus slayer vs. weak mooks, horde breaker vs. single mobs, giant killer vs. medium or smaller enemies and volley or whirlwind attack vs. single mobs.

the entire suite of ranger effects can just be meaningless from round to round or combat to combat, and there's much to do about it.

>>52996495
Great, that's a spell slot burned for nothing, pretty much. You still need a slot for Goodberry, since you aren't gonna be getting actual food from Purify unless you forage and can't be fucked to clean the animal properly.

Yes, it trivializes the foraging aspect of exploration, but if the DM is good, he'll put enough stress on the players to really make those slots count.

>>52996499
If you want to go full Lawful, read into some authoritarian ideologies and pick one you'd like to "believe in." Ask the DM about any royalty you could come from, or any Kings/Armies you might serve.

>>52996394
Explain to me how a character knows how to traverse a swamp and arctic regions when his entire life was spent in a kingom with 0 swamps... And 0 arctic regions...?

>>52996507
Well fuck it does. I guess most AoE's don't really do too much damage anyway. Warhorse has 19HP so it could likely survive a mid leveled CON save against it.

>>52996521
At least I can have a tragic character arc of revenge and alcoholism for my horsie.

>>52996475
DM would also need to ban background features that say you can find food and water for your party.

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>>52996425

Nothing happens, a 5 hour session means catching a boat somewhere and maybe 1 short combat. We have to roleplay every action with every minor NPC. Instead of rocking up to the castle, getting a quest and leaving we have to - walk to gate, ask gate npc to open the gate, 'who said you can come in here', 'here we have this letter', 'ok go on in', talk to castle front door guards, 'Noone enters without authorization', 'we were specifically requested, we have this note', 'ok go in', have to talk to the lord's secretary, 'oh what brings you here?'

All of this pointless shit could be avoided by "You show your note to the gate guard who waves you in, after finding the office of the lord and speaking to his secretary, you enter the office to see the lord sitting down in his chair at a desk." Some people enjoy that stuff, and that's fine, but literally all of us prefer combat and have pointed it out multiple times to the DM.

These numerous NPC interactions might sound short, but when someone wants to go and buy something from the blacksmith, and someone wants to buy spells, and someone wants to look for side quests, it takes literally hours to talk to all these NPC's one at a time because the party splits to make this stuff happen.

>inb4 get a new DM

DnD is literally the only time our group of friends actually meet, bad DnD is better than no DnD in this case - I just want ideas on how to make it more fun instead of sitting on my phone.

>>52996540
It's one level one spell slot used to keep the party alive on the rare occasion where you absolutely cannot find food and water.
It's hardly 'burned for nothing.'

And once you hit later levels, you'll have plenty of other spellslots of higher levels and those low level spellslots will mostly be for things like a healing word or something, anyway.

>>52996557
Sounds like they're more a victim of 'the setting wasn't properly explained'.

>>52996557
Magic, because that's what a D&D Ranger is. He's using magical senses and feeling the lands natural patterns to find his way.

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>>52996457

Sounds pretty great, I'll look into it. Thanks :)

>>52996477
why would you want a setting without gods though?

having a setting with demons and devils but no gods and angels is retarded as all hell.

not to mention you lose three of the heaven realms where gods dwell. which are some of the most fun for high level characters to visit.

honestly the setting I was going for is that there are so many gods have varying degrees of intrest in the materal realm so most people feel comfortable giving them offerings every now and then and just being relaxed about it, I guess in a modern day shinto kind of way. no weeabo.

others obviously are more pious and seek recongition from the gods by performing their will on the material plane.

in terms of people who don't follow any god in the slightest it would likely be a druid or someone who disliked the gods for some reason or maybe someone from an elemental plane who hasn't witness one.

just a random rogue not beliving in the gods seems out of place in the setting I established.

>>52996557
I dunno, because survival basics are pretty similar across many different kinds of environments?
You know enough about nature to make very educated guesses about the way things work even in environments that are a bit foreign to you?

>>52996571
Show him this post.

>>52996521
Yeah, but there's only so much you can get, you know? It's still effectively a mundane, every-day horsey. Letting it shrug off Cone of Cold or some shit would be way too good.

Alternatively, take 5 levels of Paladin for RIGHTEOUS STEED or 5 levels of Wizard for SPOOKY STEED.

DM here, trying to think up a way to make my party's Sorcerer feel a bit more powerful/useful than any other arcane caster available to play.

My current line of thought is that they get a free spell at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th level (ie., when the unlock the first spell slots of 1st - 5th spell level) and make the spell learned tie into their Sorcerous Origin.

Lets them be a bit more flexible with spell selection when they know that their "bread and butter" blaster spells are guaranteed to be earned and lets them pick up some other useful spells (Fly, Haste, Counterspell, Invisibility, etc.) and not lose out on having more blaster spells to modify with Metamagic.

If this means I have to homebrew up some spells (the Sorcerer's Origin is a Blue Dragon) then so be it, I don't mind doing a bit of work to homebrew up some blaster spells for him to use.

What other ways/options have you DMs done to give your group's Sorcerer a bit more oomph?

>>52996592
Plenty of reasons not to have gods in a setting. Some people prefer a lower fantasy setting, and want to be able to aim for the top without there being a point where the DM has to bridge the gap from level 20 to godhood with some absurd explanation, and then there's plotholes left right and centre about gods intervening or not intervening or such that're often explained with 'I guess gods don't interact with the world except the ways they interact with the world'.
Generally, gods are a higher power that cannot be simply understood in a plot, and really don't then serve to introduce anything much interesting to a plot other than dues ex machinas and mysteries that can't be solved by logic and reason.

.. I'd probably be better off finding a blog or something trying to explain god-less settings, though.

In any case, it's fine to had a setting with gods too, and if you made the setting clear the player's a bit of an idiot/trying to be special.

>>52996394
Dude plays nothing but fighter so him playing beast master is a joke. And the reason he wants revised is so he can generalize humanoids and get the damage boost cus "muh powergame"
And if you wanna talk shitty... Why play sorcerer when wizard is dewmably better outside a few cheeky multiclass warlock bits? Or wild magic, I see sorcerer flawed as well but I hear nobody complain about it, but ranger... All over

How do I build good low level monk with phb only?

What are my options?

>>52996571
I know the feeling, anon.
Here's what I suggest. It *might* help you. It *might* also make you a forever DM, but you might also realize being a good DM for bad players is better than being a good player for a bad DM.

Ask if you can do a one-shot any time the DM feels like they need a break. Make sure you pace it VERY well. Have the action flow well from scene to scene and show how much fun can be had by skipping some of the trivial bits.

Going to buy a sword shouldn't require NPC interaction unless that NPC might have some importance. If you arrive in a new town it can be good to roleplay a minor NPC if anything just because you need to establish contacts in a foreign place. But you're in the capital? Fuck it, just pay your gold and be done.

A good DM will fast forward you to the fun and help you skip the drag. NPC encounters either need to be fun or they need to be of plot significance is a general rule of thumb.

If you can make sure everyone has fun with your one-shot, you might convince the DM to change things up, especially if your style gets people more involved and interactions are actually fun.

I once had a DM that would drag shit out like this. And the worst part was that we only played like once a month (sometimes twice if we were "lucky" ) and fuck all would happen every session just like yours. I believe we were 6 different 5 hour sessions in before hitting level 3. Needless to say, we stopped playing that campaign after we hit level 3. No one had fun, not even the DM.

>>52996661
I think the next most-bitched about class in PHB is Sorcerer.

It's just that the bitching for Ranger is much, much, much, MUCH louder (and rightfully so, for once) than the bitching about Sorcerer.

>>52996573
I was trying to say that it's a resource that is burned "for nothing" because it's not like a damage or healing spell or whatever.

And to be fair, at higher levels, you probably shouldn't be bothering with that kind of shit anyways.

and who doesn't take 20 pounds of field rations when they go exploring anyways?

>>52996643
Yeah, giving them an extended spells list is a good start.
I also recommend letting them be flexible with reflavoring some spells mechanically since draconic sorcerers outside of fire and ice are pretty short on elemental spells that fit their theme.

If he is blue, why not give him access to things like call lightning?
I would also maybe look into giving them something akin to a breath weapon that scales properly if you want to keep the draconic theme going.

>>52996573
6 page pdf of the world... Short excerpts with pictures...

how do you feel about ritual casting?
does your party ever give you enough time to cast shit as a ritual, do you carry around ritual spells with the intention of ritual casting them, specially as a wizard?

>>52996571
Is your DM autistic as well as retarded?
What the fuck, no one does that. Even good DMs don't roleplay every little thing, that does nothing but waste time.

Actually, have you guys looked at 4e?

>>52996661
>damage boost to humanoids
If that's what you're worried about have him pick 2 humanoids.
Or perhaps instead of damage rolls, change it to "to-hit bonus" instead.

If they're trying to powergame, they're really not picking the right class to do it with.

So I had a joke idea for a magic bow, but the more I think about it the more I want to go through with it. It should go to a deep stalker ranger and I want it to be of the rare/very rare variety.

>The Invisibow
>+1 longbow that is invisible to all creatures except the one who attuned to it
>while its wielder is also invisible it does some extra shit
>some other stuff
I need ideas. Maybe it can cast a spell? What should it do while the PC is invisible? Extra damage is easy, but boring.

>>52996661
We complain about sorcerer all day long. But sorcerer isn't 100% terrible. The UA content is power creep which balances it out and being able to twin spells like haste is actually pretty damn good, but it's like monk - if you don't understand what it's good at and play to those few strengths, you really might as well play something else.

Wizard has a higher skill ceiling, I suppose. But there are more powerful things than wizards.

>>52996678
Here are your options:
Variant human, wood elf, stout halfling.
Get mobile, don't get mobile.
Shadow or Open Hand.

... That is all. There are no other viable options if you use PHB alone.

>>52996678
Wood elf monk is pretty good.
Variant human with mobile is also a nice option.
You can have a starting AC of 16, and you'll be able to use your mobility to stay out of the front lines while just dashing in to punch and get back out.

>>52996661
>the damage boost
lol, it's like +2 to attack rolls, or +4 later on. Winds up being +4 dpr at level 5 and +8 from 6 onwards. Tell him to stick with Fighter, he'll be better off.

>>52996711
Then their problem is playing an outdoorsey character without understanding the world more than the fact they picked something they couldn't possibly know (which wouldn't give them any benefit whatsoever).

>>52996556
Good ideas. I was thinking of tying it in with another PC. I know one of them is playing a noble Wizard who ran away from home to become an adventure and was thinking that being their bodyguard could be interesting.

Other option would be "Ye olde folk hero turned Knight-Errant".

>>52996678
>variant human
>high strength
>grappler feat
>early levels play safe with javlins or some shit
>wait till level 5 and stun the biggest guy you can find in a fight and pin them to the ground.

>>52996702
>and who doesn't take 20 pounds of field rations when they go exploring anyways?

When you play that asshole that buys 14lbs of flour, 2lbs of salt and a iron skillet (half and iron pot)4lbs
Rp element and food at the same time.

>>52996754
Is this so that there's essentially some retard making pew-pew motions on the battlefield but actually killing people in the process? Because if so I wholeheartedly approve.

As a minor effect for more shenanigans, if they ranger is also invisible, then the target getting hit thinks it came from the opposite side. Like, shoot him in the chest, he feels like he got shot in the back.

>>52996754
No no no.
As an action you can use the bow to turn invisible for one minute. No concentration.
While the user is invisible the bow is visible.
So you still have the benefits that come from invisibility (advantage on attacks, enemies have disadvantage), but your location is otherwise obvious.

>>52996679

Myself and this DM alternate every few weeks. I run a Shadowrun campaign while he does DnD, and we are with the same group of people.

People seem to like my game a lot more, and I'm not perfect but I think I get the pacing right with a good amount of combat - but he doesn't seem to get the hint. Ironically he's a great player - he knows what is going on, takes notes and roleplays his character well. It just seems like when he DM's he's using it as a chance to practice his voice acting and his improv skills rather than creating an exciting game.

>>52996791
Gee, a character that's worthless for 5 levels and then has one trick it can do 1-2 times before a rest in a low level game? Sign me the fuck up.

Seriously, this isn't even a meme build like Fighter 1/Monk X. It's just insulting.

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>>52996643
I do three major fixes:

>1. Combine the Wizard and Sorcerer Spell List
This pretty much fixes the fact that the Sorcerer spell list is a strictly inferior version of the Wizard one, and also gives wizards some silly things they for SOME REASON didn't have before (like waterwalk, even though they get water breathing). There is no reason to keep the lists separate.

>2. Sorcerers know all meta-magic options from the start.
This sounds overpowered, it's not. It allows sorcerers a type of versatility wizards don't have and allows players to pick something besides Twin and Quickened.

>3.Allow Sorcerers to learn spells from tutors and such.
Wizards can learn spells simply by reading a defeated enemy's spell book, sorcerers too should be allowed to learn spells outside of their level-up spells if they find the proper teacher. Helps to alleviate their god-awful spells-known limit. Be careful not to go TOO far with this though, since they're not prepared-spell casters like wizards are.

>>52996829
NOTE: This is all assuming multi-classing is banned. I fully acknowledge this is broken as fuck with multiclassing allowed, but multiclassing is a broken mechanic anyway and I never allow it at my table.

>>52996820
Looks like you need to step up to the plate to DM 5e as well, get him to only play as he's being selfish and a bit of shitfister.

>>52996820
Then my suggestion is to just be honest and tell him how you feel.
Start by telling him what you love about his games, but be honest about how you feel about his pacing.
Suggest that while you enjoy some of these interactions, if the scene doesn't feel engaging to the whole party it's easy to become distracted and uninterested in the scene.

>>52996754
>The user dies
>Drops bow
>nobody can see bow still
>+1bow remains there for an eternity :(

That is all I think of when I hear only visable to attuned.. Is the arrow visable?

>>52996846
I agree with this, like if someone can come to me with it and it's a reasonable thing that can't be accomplished by other options I'll consider.

Most of the time you just need to change 1 ability or something for those character concepts that are "Impossible without MCing".

>>52996807
>the target getting hit thinks it came from the opposite side
Oh, I like that. Guess I can justify it with it being a weapon heavily laced with illusion magic.

>>52996817
>While the user is invisible the bow is visible.
I definitely thought about that because it's pretty funny, but then it has to have some benefits to justify the silliness of a longbow hovering mid-air.

>>52996846
>but multiclassing is a broken mechanic anyway
It's really not except for a few level 20 meme builds that can only do one or two things very well.
>level 20
kek

It's a fine mechanic otherwise for letting a character be more diverse at the cost of reducing their overall power since falling behind the power curve is very easy to do with multiclassing.

>>52996710
Well, it's a Blue Dragon Sorc, so the Lightning damage spells at 0 - 5th spell level are Shocking Grasp (cantrip), Chromatic Orb - Lightning (1st), Lightning Bolt (3rd), and Call Lightning (3rd, not normally on their list).

My thinking for homebrewed spells are:

> Lightning Step

2nd level Evocation

Bonus Action, V, S

Move up to 2x your current move speed, not provoking AoO if you pass by an enemy. Any enemy you do pass by must make a Reflex save or take 2d8 Lightning damage, half damage on success.

> Lightning Wave

4th level Evocation

Action, V, S

Make a 30 ft. cone attack, creatures inside the cone must make a Reflex save or take 7d8 Lightning damage, half damage on success. If cast using a higher level spell slot, add an additional 1d8 Lightning damage per higher level spell slot.

> Lightning Orb

5th level

Action, V, S, Concentration (1 minute)

Throw a pulsing orb of lightning out to an area w/in 60 ft. that you can see. Any creature that starts its turn within a 15 ft. radius of the orb must make a Reflex save or take 6d8 Lightning damage. On concurrent turns you can move the orb up to 30 ft. with a Bonus Action. If cast at a higher level, add 2d8 Lightning damage for every spell level cast at higher than 5th.

>>52996887
Elemental Evil and SCAG add some. Lightning Lure off the top of my head.

>>52996867
I already added in a blurb that says if no creature is attuned, the bow becomes visible.
>Is the arrow visible?
Not sure on that. I would like it to be, but I don't want it being used later as justification for "He can't cast shield against my attack, he didn't saw the arrow!"

>>52996855
Nah, you don't want him to lie. There's nothing good about that DM's games.

>>52996879
I mean, you'd still have the benefits of invisibility so long as you're holding the bow. Adv on attacks, disadv on enemies attacking you.

Another idea
>a shot by this bow that manages to kill them also turns them invisible for 1 minute
Very little mechanical benefit but could be interesting to see enemy reactions.

>you see friend get hit in the head with an arrow
>he disappears
FUCK

Or alternatively, you don't see them get hit by anything if the arrows are also invisible. They just disappear. Body is still there on the ground of course.

>>52996829
I would even say having a small ability to absorb magic/transfer magic due to them being the living embodiement of magic, magic should be their natural feelings and Movements that trigger them, allowing for some cool rp psychedelic training

Does manyone here play without a grid or map? Is it rough?
If I don't want to drop many on physical battlemats and minis, is there a good online alternative?

>>52996823
>not thinking restraining people is fun
>not taking tavern brawler at level 4 so you can glass someone and then grab them
>forgetting that grabbing in itself is very useful and helps the team out

ohh you were picking a monk to do tons of damage?
I guess you must have some form of brain damage. I'm sorry

>>52996909
This was of course assuming there was something good about those games, but you're right. Don't lie if there isn't, anon. You don't want to encourage bad behavior by lying about it.

>>52996905
Sorry didn't see, mb
>didn't saw the arrow

Classic +1 inspiration

>>52996887

Give dragon sorcerers Energy Substitution of their type. So they can take any spell with Fire, Cole, Thunder, or Acid damage and covert it into Lightning if they want.

>>52996922
We use a grid only for large battles where spacing matters more.
If we are doing theater of the mind the rule of thumb is to try to rule in favor of the players and be as clear as you can about spacing.

Roll20 fuck those guys is pretty decent as far as online platforms go. Again, when I use it though, we do theater of the mind and only break out to the grid when it actually might matter.

>>52996896
Other than Lightning Lure, there's Storm Sphere from Elemental Evil; deal a mix of Bludgeoning and Lightning damage to creatures, as a 4th level spell.

>>52996887
Lightning step is a bit too powerful if you compare it to shatter in strength, probably. Only 2d8 instead of 3d8 damage but holy shit it's also a half-misty-step bonus action.

Lightning wave is fine enough. lightning orb is fine enough.

>>52996475
Prestidigitation can start small fires

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>>52996929
pic related

>>52996929
Except you have shitty health, no armour and your attack can already be used for a grapple then you can use a bonus action to attack so tavern brawler's fucking worthless.

If you want a grappler build Barbarian literally does everything better.

Monk is made for a different type of control.

>>52996953
That would be another option, basically let them take spells that deal Fire, Cold, Thunder, or Acid damage and convert it to Lightning damage, changing the save required if need-be (probably change most of the saves over to DEX save instead of STR, CON, or WIS).

>>52996905
>Not sure on that. I would like it to be, but I don't want it being used later as justification for "He can't cast shield against my attack, he didn't saw the arrow!"

This is a valid concern, but only if you regularly run enemies that use shield as a spell. Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it. One or two enemies not being able to use shield against one player isn't such a big deal and is a nice little bonus for the bow.

Perhaps the arrow becomes visible again after it makes contact.
Unless it kills them

>>52996967
How does a 2d6 or 2d4 Lightning damage rolled instead of the 2d8?

My idea behind it is that they can use it to get into our out of a sticky situation and still zap people to use more Lightning spells (Shocking Grasp or Lightning Lure, as you can't cast another spell slot after using Lightning Step).

>>52996887
I'd move lightning step up to 3rd level with that level of strength.
For a second level ability why not a reaction akin to storm sorcerer's shock?

Witch bolt is kind of a shit spell, but maybe just give them access to it anyway (for free, that is).

>>52996916
That is actually a great idea. Would make for a huge boon in stealth missions, too.

I'm considering giving it the choice to cast Phantasmal Killer once per day, maybe a little extra poison damage if the wielder is invisible.

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>>52996887
>Reflex Save

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>playing high charisma half-orc folk hero purple dragon knight
>who character is based around interacting with NPC's
>DM's setting makes it impossible as everyone hates orcs too much to allow me to talk to them
>one of the party members is a drow and for some reason is openly accepted and people pretend that the drow aren't 15x worse than orcs are.

Idea for a Monk homebrew; Rokushiki Tradition
First tier of powers is Geppo (jump off air) and Tekkai (stand still and harden skin to increase defense)
Sencond Tier is Shigan (infinct piercing with fingers) and Rankyu (throw your kicks like discs, deals slicing damage)
Third Tier is Soru (Misty Step) and Kami-e (avoid attacks as a reaction)
Capstone is Life Return (complete control over one's body), allowing you to adjust your physique/mass with your physical stats (convert amounts of fat to muscle to +strength, weight to +dex, etc.)

>>52997016
I'm so used to thinking DEX save = Reflex save, as I started my tabletop gaming with 3.5, sorry. But it's a pretty easy thing to figure out what I meant.

Who should I play in a Level 15 Apocalypse campaign?

>Level 1 Cleric/Level 14 Wizard who fights to protect his family after a war took the lives of his first wife and best friend

>Level 15 Monk who fights to survive because, while putting on airs of above-all-of-this, has a crippling fear of death

>Level 15 Paladin who fights to protect those who can't defend themselves, while zealously punishing all those who stand in his way, and pushes down his feelings of enjoying combat/killing by way of justifying it under his oath

What do you think?

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>>52996884
Paladin/Sorcerer is broken long before level 20, but keep thinking your limited personal experiences and half-ass theorycraft totally cover every scenario that will ever come up ever.

>>52997031
Sounds gay, weeaboo and gives more abilities then any other monk.

>>52997034
It's alright, it's pretty obvious that reflex is DEX, fortitude is CON and that other one is WIS most of the time.

posted this in the last thread, but it was among the last posts. this may help some of you guys running CoS. made a ton of roll20-style tokens with key curse of strahd NPCs and book art, using the template from the trove.

tokens:
https://gofile.io/?c=1YWaJI

enjoy guise

>>52997040
Paladin 2/Sorc X is probably the only way to get a true 'gish' class in 5e right now.

Sure, EK, Bladesinger, AA, and Warlock exist, but I don't see them as true gish classes.

>>52997067
Why not? They all use spells and weapons. Why can't you just be a plain Paladin considering there's no difference between Divine magic and Arcane anymore?

>>52996999
2d6 and save negates damage completely should work.

Or, alternatively, make it only work in a line rather than let you manoeuvre through all the enemies and then it's probably fine to have it as 2d8 save halves.

>>52996887
What about a two turn spell that requires "charging up"? Or a more powerful absorb elements for lightning only?

Call it, Conductor, or something.

I also like the idea of a self targetted AoE spell that hurts you but deals a lot of damage. Would make using absorb elements useful, as well as making use of draconic resistance to your element, as well as potentially using careful spell.

I've always liked the idea of a sorcerer being much more reckless when it comes to their magic.

>>52997040
Paladin/sorcerer isn't broken. It's viable, but if you do encounters as the book intends rather than a 5 minute adventuring day then it's a fine sidegrade, even if it's better than sorcerer.

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>>52996194
>NO my character doesn't believe in the gods, anyone could use magic and say it's from god

>>52997119
That's why we have the wall of the faithless.

It's punishment for fuckwit players so their character never gets a happy ending.

>>52997040
Okay, sure buddy.
Whatever you say.

Tell me why they're so broken and I'll tell you why they're no better than a straight caster.

Most of what's broken comes down to how you design encounters as the DM anyway.

>>52997040
>Being able to burst a ton of damage a couple times a day is broken
look at him
look at him and laugh

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>>52997067
>>52997106
>I want to be as good at magic as a full caster but as good at melee as a full-martial!
>IT'S NOT BROKEN GUYS!

Why are gish players such cancer? Play an Eldritch Knight, play a Paladin, Play a a Blackblade Warlock. There are gish options in the game, they just happen to not be overpowered bullshit. Coincidence?

>>52997079
>Why can't you just be a plain Paladin considering there's no difference between Divine magic and Arcane anymore?
depends on the setting

>>52996884
OK, let's do this then. What is the highest level you've played at?

>>52997151
But you won't be either of those.
You're still gonna be behind on your spell progression, and you will need to delay your paladin levels at some point as well.
If you dip sorcerer even one level before 5 paladin you're not behind everyone else when it comes to swinging twice.

>>52997164
Level 20, actually.
But most of my games end up around 15.

I also DM, and I'm not unable to handle a perfectly fine multiclass.

>>52997106
>>52997138
>>52997145
Not him but I personally think the main issue is the way it invalidates other classes.

Until level 7+ it's litterally better then a pure Paladin in a lot of ways and it's only 1 spell level behind a Sorcerer. It's powerful.

>>52997154
If your DM is willing to let you multiclass it to achieve a magic knight, wouldn't you already be a Paladin anyway? At that point your just a Paladin with moar damage.

>>52997170
>What is quickened/twinned BB/GFB?

>>52997151
I actually think Paladin/Sorc only gets busted once they get to 6th level spells and up, because then they start doing insane AoE damage and can still nova a single target.

It's part of the reason why I want to see the Duskblade get ported over from 3.5; it's a gish class right at level 1, but doesn't get any of the truly busted spells.

>>52997151
Being a paladin-sorcerer does not make you as good at melee as a paladin. You don't get extra attack, instead you have to rely on using quickened spell which has limited use and uses your bonus action which prevents you from using stuff like PAM. You don't get improved divine smite for damage on every hit. You delay the highest spell known from sorcerer, so you're not exactly the best spellcaster ever and it's not like you have wizard or bard or druid's utility on top of full spellcasting. You also miss out on some other goodies paladin gets like aura of protection, and your ASIs are delayed a couple of levels.

Like I said, it's no doubt powerful, but paladin itself is just as powerful.

>>52996972
That's great, I said it was a non-issue because everyone and their mum has access to fire-starting shit.

>>52997182
So why even bother sprouting the meme that no one goes to level 20 if, actually, you made it and have been multiple games that nearly got there?

>>52997183
How many sorcery points do you have again?
You're gonna turn your smite slots into sorcery points?

>>52997187
I really think they're unlikely to ever make more classes beyond mystic and artificer. Mostly by the way they shoved all psionics into one class.

Wouldn't a Stone Sorcerer be pretty much the same thing though?

>>52997183
>Until level 7+
They don't have extra attack, at level 5 they don't have level 3 spells known like fireball.

At level 3 they don't even have quickened spell, and at level 4 you can only use it once anyway while the paladin has just got an ASI and is already fucking around with PAM for up to three attacks a round.

>>52997214
No one playing level 20 isn't a meme, it's just very slight hyperbole. It affected major design choices

>>52997214
Because if you play to level 20, it doesn't mean you play AT level 20.
You get a few sessions maybe if your group is into it, but then at level 20 everyone is basically gods anyway, and a level 20 wizard is much better than nearly any multiclass build you can possibly declare to be "broken."

The point is that delaying progression will usually put you well behind the power curve, but for some players the diversity they can gain from multiclassing, or the RP fluff they can achieve is worth the sacrifice.

>>52997222
A lot of the classes from 3.5 and 4e could probably be ported over to 5th as archetypes of the other classes.

But there is some design space left unexplored for a melee DPR role that gets its damage not from divine or martial damage, but from arcane/elemental damage, which is a role that the Duskblade could fill in.

Hell, the Blood Hunter class from Mercer fills in that role, but not many people like it because of the love/hate relationship to all things related to Critical Role.

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>>52996304
>should I suffer this new guy just to make the warlock happy?

are you retarded

>>52997258
>Hell, the Blood Hunter class from Mercer fills in that role, but not many people like it because of the love/hate relationship to all things related to Critical Role.
I personally just hate the way he balances things.
Instead of proper balance he just adds cons for every pro he throws out hoping they will sort themselves in the end.

>>52997214
The point is that you don't play a level 20 build from levels 1 to 20. You play most of the game in between that. That's why 20 builds are memes.

>>52997270
Tacking on cons with every pro is a design holdover from 3.5/PF, which is what he had a lot of experience with prior to starting 5e. It is also important to keep in mind that this was expanded out from the one-shot with Vin Diesel to promote that Witch Hunter movie.

Ok guys, how about this?

>THE INVISIBOW

Weapon (longbow), rare (requires attunement)

While you are attuned to this longbow, it is invisible to all except you. If no creature is attuned, it becomes visible.

If you are invisible while wielding this bow, it becomes visible and, on the first attack you make, on a hit your target must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or take 2d10 poison damage and become poisoned for 1 minute. The target can repeat the saving throw at the start of each of its turns, ending the effect on a success.

Any creature killed by an arrow shot from this bow becomes invisible for 1 minute.

Lastly, you can use an action to cast Phantasmal Killer. Once this property is used, it can't be used again until the next dawn.

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On the topic of optional rules, anyone tried this?

The real issue with Paladin/Sorcerer is the same issue wrong with a bunch of multiclasses. It can burst like a motherfucker, not Nuclear Druid sure but most creatures that stand in it's way will get BTFO.

Now people say you just have to spread the adventuring day but that's not something you can just do. If the party decides to rest you can't just say No.

People say put a timer on things but that also rarely works. If you keep putting timers on stuff they'll just ignore it and find something else to do.

The only way you can consistently prevent it is to railroad the fuck out of them.

>>52997258
Really, that's Warlock and Stone Sorcerer. Stone Sorcerer's main thing is quickened/twined BB/GFB all day by converting slots, they even get Magic Weapon and Elemental Weapon spells.

>>52997285
Oh, I'm aware. It just feels kinda lazy on his part.
I like critical role, but I am infuriated by the cast sometimes. It's been years and they still don't know basic mechanics of their class half the time. That said, it only really bothers me when it has a major impact. Most the time it's inconsequential.

>>52997303
The poison seems kind of out of place to me.
I think the bow becoming visible while you're invisible should just be a silly ribbon thing that happens without having too much mechanical impact.

>>52997304
No, because my players are always shit at basic math.
Less rolls the better.

>>52997304
boi that sounds retarded.
can't wait to roll another fucking die when I'm action surging.

not to mention that this is overall a huge buff more than people think.
do you honestly think a D6 isn't extra to hit isn't going to be handy as fuck when attacking high armor targets.

>>52997307
I can't wait for them to finish with their current campaign and start over as new characters. Travis is held back so much in terms of combat and planning because of his Barbarian's low INT, even if he is arguably the best roleplayer at the table.

Hell, I'd love to see the new campaign start with only 5 players, said 5 being Taliesin, Travis, Laura, Sam, and Ashley. But Marisha is Matt's fiance so she would probably tag along, and Liam would probably want to play with them too. Sam is great too, but who knows what he'd want to do. Either way, it'd be another 6-7 player campaign right from the start, which would be terrible to watch.

>>52997306
>the party can just say no
It's really not very hard to put players in a situation where they can't rest. If you have the party in a situation where they can, then everything is broken anyway and nothing really matters.

The trick is to put timers on things that actually have consequence if they do say no.
Like there's an approaching army that's going to destroy their fucking hometown and if they don't quickly retrieve this relic the whole town is fucked.
The cultists are going to sacrifice the mayors daughter to fulfill a blood offering in order to summon a demon prince during the next full moon. When's the next full moon? Turdas. What day is it? Turdas. FUCK. TURD. ASS.

>>52997329
It feels out of place for me as well, but I do want to make it a good weapon. What could I add instead? Doesn't need to be something while the PC is invisible, but it could be.

>>52996643
I was going to write up an answer, but >>52996829 pretty much hit every single major nail on the head. I run very similar changes in my games and it seems to work well. Wizards are still the uncontested kings of utility, and their school bonuses still tend to outweigh sorcerer bloodlines a bit in terms of usefulness... but Charisma is a much better casting stat than Intelligence and Sorcs get Con a save proficiency so it balances out.

The only thing I could possibly suggest adding is to give the sorcerer some exclusive spells that wizards can't learn (this is what my group does instead of combining it with the wizard spell list), but this gets into the realm of homebrew and is a bit much to spring on newer players. Always better to work with existing material than to make new material, unless you've got a group that knows they're going to be testing homebrew and is OK with that.

I too believed that allowed sorcs all the metamagic options from the start was broken at first, but after seeing several anons suggest it and trying it myself, it actually makes the class wayyy more fun and isn't actually that broken at all.

>>52996156
Aren't they the only thing saving the system from utter samey drudgery in gameplay that can't adequately cover many character concepts in roleplay?

>>52997303
Why not just make it so that once a long rest the bow can turn you invisible so long as you hold it, and if you attack a foe while invisible, the arrow hit will deal an extra bit of force damage, as the magical energy from the illusion empowers the arrow as it flies and breaks the spell.

>>52997344
You rarely fight creatures with such high AC. More commonly you fight creatures with low AC that you now might miss.

The main effect is that if you can reroll something such as a knowledge check your highest value you could get is much higher.

>>52997376
How about this. The reason the bow turns visible while you're invisible... is because it turns visible any time there is another invisible creature or object nearby. Serves as a decent warning device.

As for mechanical attack power, why not have shots made with it deal an extra 1d8 force damage? Too much? Make it a short bow instead and have it deal 1d6.
(Rolling the same dice is a quality of life thing)

>>52997375
How many times can you make them save the kingdom without it seeming cheesy? If every adventure is so bad that they have to do something about it then it'll feel like they're just being Railroaded as fuck.

Also let's be honest, 5e is even worse then others at attracting morally ambiguous characters who won't give a shit.

>>52997307
I hate most the cast because in the time they've played I think Scanlen has had the most character development by trying to get into drugs to cope with his fears then being pissed at the party cause they know fuck all about him, leaving and coming in as a new character.

Also Keyleth having a fuck high wisdom score, having gone through all these experiences but still playing the ditzy idiot who, after having a couple glasses of wine, objectively makes the worst call 8/10 times and everyone follows along.

That and while I love Travis I wish he hadn't rolled the dumb strong guy meme because you can see it is painful for him to sit and listen to their half baked plans when he has one but can't share it because he sticks to his character.

Vax seemed like he was having development then just became the mood swing "I love Kiki" joke.

Percy had some development but now is stuck in a loop of being the edge man.

Vex is still Vex but now she isn't 100% tight with money.

Pike I give a slight pass to because she is normally shooting a TV show and hasn't had a huge chance to do much.

>>52997262
the warlock is like really really good at dnd. the shit he does is so entertaining.

he can carry a team when fighting much higher level monsters then they should be fighting and on top of that when I home brew some encouters with wierd rules he always finds a smart way to deal with it

these shadow creactures would walk like zombies towards the party, people tried casting the light cantrip to illuminate them and see where they were but I came prepared and the person causing the shadows had the darkness cantrip and no one had daylight to counter it.

so the warlock used shape water to take water from nearby and make a moat so they could hear where they were and take shots at them.

it was a close fight but no one died, in hidesight if he wasn't there it would have been a partywipe.

>>52997363
I think Liam is the one who got all of them into D&D anyway so there's no way he's be left out.

Also I agree with you on Travis, he sticks so much to character even when you see him roll his eyes because he has a decent plan or answer but can't do anything about it. The evil campaign one shot they did was great and let him show he is actually a smart mother fucker.

>>52997403
Those are just shitty examples, of course.
Do you really need me to write a compelling plot for you?

>muh sandbox
In that case, yes. You can cheese through anything by attacking some big guys then going back to town and sleeping it off.
But how about instead, each time they do this the dungeon becomes more dangerous since the big boys are getting rolled buy this guy in plate armor who keeps showing up everyday?

>morally ambiguous characters who won't give a shit
You mean players? Find better players.
A good player will want to advance the story and won't want to cheese game mechanics to "win" D&D. If they roll a morally ambiguous character that doesn't care about anything then fuck them. Their character has no reason to adventure and gets old and dies, the end. Now, obviously I'm being extreme but you should see the point I'm making.

>>52997402
>it turns visible any time there is another invisible creature or object nearby
Another great idea. I think I'll be using this one.
>(Rolling the same dice is a quality of life thing)
We play on roll20 so that's not really much of an issue.

>>52997400
I considered giving the option to cast Invisibility as well, since rangers can't get it usually. Not entirely sure yet, though.

>>52996470
Maybe it's just because I've got a bf not a gf but if anything I think I would be harsher on him if he played.

I know that unlike other players he'd be willing to enjoy the experience even if his character got the shit kicked out of him and was one of the weakest.

Maybe boys just really are better then grils.

>>52997420
I don't blame Travis for being the stereotypical dumb Barbarian, because this is his first time playing tabletop RPGs, same with Ashley and Laura. Sam and Liam hadn't played in decades, Marisha not for a few years, and Taliesin has about as much active experience as Matt.

Keep in mind it was originally just a one-stop for Liam's birthday, but after the success of the first game they all got bit by the RPG bug hard.

Marisha herself has said she played Keyleth as a challenge to herself and to give the Druid class another chance.

>>52997446
>Another great idea. I think I'll be using this one.
Maybe you could have it deal the force damage only while it's invisible?
Once an enemy is killed by it (and becomes invisible) the bow becomes visible and is basically just a regular bow.

>>52997474
>Marisha herself has said she played Keyleth as a challenge to herself and to give the Druid class another chance.

Marisha always uses the excuse that she's trying to play a character that is really different from herself. However, she just plays herself. She always gets high or drunk and makes the worst decisions during play time but doesn't get punished for it. She's a pretty strong example of DM's girlfriend getting a pass.

Although, I admit very rarely Matt will come down on her actions. But it's very rare.

>>52997462
faget

>>52997434
The game started as a one shot for Liam's birthday, as he hadn't played D&D since he was a kid.

>>52997520
For you daddy ;3

16 Totem Barb/4 Battle Master
>Magic Greatsword
>20 STR
>20 CON
>Commanding Strike (Party has 2 Rogues), Menacing strike, ??? (Any Suggestions)
>Great Weapon Fighting
>Action Surge

VS

20 Totem Barb
>Magic Greatsword
>24 STR
>24 CON
>Extra Brutal Critical dice
>Unlimited Rage

What's better to you all.

>>52997536
If you somehow get to level 20, barbarian's level 20 is not worth giving up. And at that point, the rogues can have 'haste' cast on them so that they can get reaction attacks by themselves.

However, that's not going to happen normally.

>>52997474
True Sam and Liam hadn't played in decades but this campaign has been running like three years now. I get it's meant to be fun, like they've stated, but I'd get so fucking bored of being the same character with no development.

I do feel slightly bad for Sam because with Scanlen's popularity he might feel like he has to play a comic relief.

>Marisha herself has said she played Keyleth as a challenge to herself and to give the Druid class another chance.

The problem is her character at this point makes no god damn sense, at the beginning I completely understood Keyleth being the way she is. However with how much time has lapsed and how much they've done I would expect Keyleth to have figured shit out a little bit instead of being the train wreck she is.

>>52997536
Pure Barb. They get what is arguably the best capstone and sets the level others should be.

Barbarian's issue is between 5 and about 11 it doesn't get much better... because it's already fucking awesome. If you're going to commit so many levels into it you might as well hang around for all the awesome shit.

>>52997507
The table as a whole has made questionable decisions before, most of them probably alcohol-influenced, but Marisha makes the most by a wide margin, because the table expects her to be the group's moral compass.

Funnily enough, Ashley isn't because she wants to go balls deep into combat as much as Travis.

>>52997536
I'd just take the feat that gives you a couple maneuvers since you want them for the rogue as you said. But the action surge is nice.

>>52997568
Ashley is Grog's moral compass from time to time at best other than that yes she is all about that combat which is understandable since she doesn't always get to play.

>>52997478
Nah, I really like the idea of a guy firing arrows from an invisible bow, and I think my party will also love the idea of invisible archer with a very visible bow. Besides, since he's a Deep Stalker, he'll get Greater Invisibility at level 13 (which isn't that far away from now, actually). I think I'll have it as:

>THE INVISIBOW

You have a +1 bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.
While you are attuned to this longbow, it is invisible to all except you. If no creature is attuned, it becomes visible.

If any invisible creatures (including yourself) come within 15 feet not sure if I should make it 30ft. Rangers do get Feral Senses at 18th level, the bow becomes visible.

Any creature killed by an arrow shot from this bow becomes invisible for 1 minute.

Lastly, you can use an action to cast Phantasmal Killer. Once this property is used, it can't be used again until the next dawn.

>>52997568
She's also a horrible moral compass.
Also marisha completely lacks comedic timing. And I KNOW this isn't her just trying to roleplay low cha because she does so OOC most the time.
I hate that she tries to rp low cha anyway, when she has fucking huge wisdom out the ass.

If I were to play her character, I'd roleplay as the quiet type who speaks up only to offer words of wisdom or give insight into a party dispute.
She's supposed to be a leader of her people now too. Fucking hell.

>>52997564
I think the issue with Scanlan's popularity is that he is the "bumbling dumbass, hidden badass" for the entire campaign, and everyone loves the funny guy who can also go Super Saiyan (in his own way) when the chips are down.

Arguably he's had the most MVP moments of the cast, either in terms of saving the party or stopping the bad guy from escaping.

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opinions on spelljammer and a possible adaptation for 5e?

>>52997507
Matt won't come down on anyone's actions. If you watched his recent fireside chat, he's an extremely understanding and kind person and has explicitly stated that he's aware that members of the party don't entirely know how their classes work but they're all there to have a good time and that's what matters in the end.

>>52997610
>Arguably he's had the most MVP moments of the cast, either in terms of saving the party or stopping the bad guy from escaping.

Tends to happen when you're the only pure caster in the group. Everyone else is just there to hit things with sharp bits of metal and claw.

>>52997553
>>52997566
>>52997573
Even with the great weapon fighting style is the capstone that good? Reminder this is a greatsword btw.

>>52997592
I like it, anon.
Type it up in homebrewry and I might steal it for my own game sometime.

I think 15 feet is fine.

>>52997610
This actually makes a lot of sense

>>52997604
Wasn't Keyleth's original Charisma score a 6, and it got bumped to 8 while wearing the antlers, and then was bumped to 10 when they switched to 5e?

I mean, a person with a Charisma score of 6 is either fucking hideous or has some SERIOUS self-esteem and or self-confidence issues.

>>52997611
That looks fantastic, what races or creatures do the ships belong to?
Starjammer really needs an overhaul of its flavor to be less shit, otherwise it'd be made fun of.

>>52997615
Which is kind of a shame. Because they've been in 5e for two years now iirc. In two years you can read 2 pages in a book.

>>52996728
anyone?

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How would you exalt the non-exalted weapons /5eg/

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Would a warlock be a good choice if I want to blow shit up with magic but also have some battlefield presence and crowd controlly shit?

>>52997628
Capstone is infinite rage resources (go figure), +2 to damage, +2 to hit, +2 to AC, +2 to con saves, +2 to str saves, +2 hp/level, +2 to strength checks, +carrying capacity...

Of course, it's best on PAM+GWM instead of just GWM, but what isn't? Though you could save those feats and instead put your con and dex really high to make the most of that extra AC.

You could probably justify 3 levels for champion if you weren't going to reach 20.

>>52997643
It was supposed to be self-esteem and self-confidence iirc.
Which makes plenty of sense for her background. Not feeling up to the task of leading her people.

But she usually roleplays her low cha as just being a fucking idiot instead.

>>52997615
True, different strokes for different folks and all that. I did notice recently that the only time he's come down on metagaming and such is mostly when it directly involves the party. Such as Keyleth trying to see if Percy actually looked in on Terry.

>>52997661
Wizard would be a better choice

>>52997637
I would, but I really have to head off now. Might do it later. But thanks anon, I appreciate your help!

>>52997661
Just be an evocation wizard, my dude.
As a warlock you'll just spam eldritch blast all day and feel like you're wasting your limited spell slots by not casting hex every time.

>>52997656
You might want to explain where these items come from, anon.

TL;DR version: these are the Legendary items in the Critical Role game, that can also function like items from Weapons of Legacy, in that they can "level up" under certain circumstances.

>>52997644
the one on the left is a mind flayer nautiloid and the other one is a neogi mindspider.

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>>52997688
>>52997683
So it's not worth it mechanics wise? I admit I wanted to go warlock for flavor, I wouldn't be able to do the same sort of character as a wizard, but I guess I can play something else.

>>52997628
barbarian capstone is one of the best in the game, so yeah.

>>52997628
Barb capstone is the best cap for any class in the game for what it does. No reason to take anything else if you get to level 20.

>>52997702
Well I guess what kind of character were you trying to make, it's possible that it can be tweaked to fit.

>>52997656

Aren't these the current exalted versions of the weapons/armor/items?

>>52997661
Warlocks have limited (but effective) battlefield control options, so it's alright.

Just keep in mind that they play essentially like an archer, who just happens to shoot magic bolts instead of arrows, and also fires a spell in combat every so often. Only 2 spell slots per short rest until 11th means you have to be judicious with their use.

Sorlocks (Warlock 2-3 / Sorcerer X) give you more variety of combat options and can put out bigger damage numbers by spending your resources (through double casting eldritch blast). Between the two it comes down to whether you're okay with Warlock's combat flow and want to get more out of their invocations.

>>52997725
If I remember right yes because all of them have something extra except for the plate.

>>52997702
Well if you want to "blow shit up" then I guess a fiendlock is your best bet since they get fireball iirc.

The problem is with such few spell slots you really won't be doing much controlling.

>>52997702
>>52997661
Well, if you're content with agonizing+repelling blasting things 80% of the time it's fine, though your other spell does get to be used for some crowd controlley things.

Wizard is more varied blasting / crowd control but worse cantrips for when you're not blasting and maybe more focus on using rituals.

Sorlock is pure 'same cantrip spam all day' terrirtory.

>>52997725
....I forgot to place what's exalted and not...
>>52997656
How would you upgrade/exalt
>Deathwalker's Ward
>Mythcarver
>Whisper
>The Spire of Conflux
>Fenthras

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>>52997661
Don't listen to those other guys. They're the type to tell you to play Wizard over any other caster.

Take Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast + that one invocation that pushes people 10 ft. Then take a bunch of concentration AOE spells like Cloud of Daggers and Hunger of Hadar and use Eldritch Blast to keep enemies inside of them. You're going to want to go Fiend as well, if you're looking for big flashy "blow shit up" magic, as their expanded spell list gives access to things like Fireball and Wall of Fire.

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>>52997724
I liked the idea of playing a conman/swindler type character who use to get by via being a snake oils salesmen. Except one day he fucks up and his so called medicine gets a kid or some shit killed - he feels guilty over it. Something basically tells him 'Yeah but what if you learned real magic though', he accepts in a moment of weakness, and boom, fiend pact warlock trying to do good while trying to swindle his patron out of more power potentially and to avoid getting rused himself.

Just thought it might be fun.

>>52997754
Deathwalker's Ward is exalted isn't it? He only got the ability to fly later on.

>>52997758
No, really. If you want to blow shit up and be controlly, having only two slots is kind of shit.
Losing your concentration or having an enemy pass the DC is just like "welp."
That's why it usually devolves to EB spam with those two invocations plus hex.

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>>52997656
If I were writing this to the person who designed them, I would say this:

First, change them so that they don't recharge on a rest. What the fuck are your weapons doing during a rest, getting some shuteye? Does putting them in their sheathe for an hour restore their powers? Magic items recharge on a timer, go check the DMG to see how they work.

Second, you gave them way too much extra damage. They shouldn't be getting a minimum of +5 to the damage like that longblow. That's insane, cut it down to a single effect on top of the +3, if you're intent on giving it massive accuracy and damage buffs. If you absolutely must give it the extra 1d8 and 1d4, then you should tone down the active-use abilities. It far outclasses the rest.

Whisper's a bit clunky, adding saving throws for every critical hit is fairly tedious. The Spire is well-done. Cabal is also good, but again rather clunky and requires keeping track of an additional thing. At high-level play, this bogs shit down fast.

>Healing fire
That's dumb, call it anything else. Anything. Just saw that the item restores that much health, don't waste words on bullshit that sounds dumb.

>trees grow out of corpses
this stands out for being weird and out of place.

>>52997758
>things like Fireball and Wall of Fire.
Reminder that you can cast Wall of Fire on a vertical surface to make "Giant ass field of fire".

>>52997743
>>52997725
I don't think so. IIRC the only items that got "upgraded" out of those were Mythcarver (4 attacks as an action), the Titanstone Knuckles (resistance to elemental stuff) and Deathwalker's Ward (wings). The rest are just as they were found.

>>52997663
>>52997705
>>52997722
Alright, thanks for the tip. If I make it that far I'll keep it in mind.

>>52997771
Apparently, it's only Awakened.

>>52997778
I'm not saying Wizard isn't mechanically better, because it is, but that's more of WotC being fucking garbage at class balancing.

It's better to suggest people how they can play their preferred style with their preferred class rather than just saying "lol go wizard they're objectively the best class for every situation" every time someone asks for help.

>>52997760
Honestly that'd also work perfectly for a wizard, instead of making pact he'd throw himself into studying magic to make the world a better place.

However if you really want to keep the swindling the patron part it's not going to be the worst thing ever so long as you're having fun. Another way you could be a swindler is trying to swindle higher level mages out of certain spells so you can copy them into your own book.

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>>52997752
For what it's worth, the rest of the group is a fighter/EK, a bear totem barbarian, a paladin, and a cleric.

>>52997820
I know I could do something similar with the wizard, but I like the idea for Warlock because it fits with him initially looking for an easy way out of his guilt by blindly signing his soul away metaphorically, and doesn't actually give him the sort of magic that'd save another person. That, and I like the cha focus to make a real showmanship kind of character who loves theatrics - and can pull it off well.

But I guess wizard would provide more utility for the group.

>>52997815
Personally it's not the reason I suggested wizard, I did that because to it fit what his original question was better. However with this >>52997760 it puts it into a different perspective, my main advice is do what you think will be the most fun.

>>52997785
Plate of the Dawnmartyr might be exalted as-is, because the, "revive once you hit 0 HP" clause over-rides the "die if you hit 0 HP from this spell" clause from things like Disintegrate and Finger of Death (see the 2nd Raishan fight when the dragon Disintegrated a low-HP Pike).

Cabal's Ruin upgraded from holding 6 charges to 9 charges during the 2nd Raishan fight when Percy tried to have it eat the damage from a Meteor Storm and actually succeeded in doing so (it previously could absorb up to 6th level spells and it's max charges was 6).

Fenthras got upgraded at the end of episode 94, right before the time skip occurred. We don't know what it does yet.

No clue on if Whisper or Spire of Conflux are exalted, though if Whisper didn't go exalted after being the weapon to kill an Ancient Red Dragon, I don't know what would make it do so (maybe be used to kill a demigod or god?)

>>52997849
>I know I could do something similar with the wizard, but I like the idea for Warlock because it fits with him initially looking for an easy way out of his guilt by blindly signing his soul away metaphorically, and doesn't actually give him the sort of magic that'd save another person. That, and I like the cha focus to make a real showmanship kind of character who loves theatrics - and can pull it off well.

Well hell then personally I'd stick with your warlock idea and follow >>52997758 advice. It sounds fun and that's what I think people should worry about the most.

>>52997852
What would you have: Deathwalker's Ward, Mythcarver, Whisper, The Spire of Conflux, and Fenthras gain from exalting? They are only ones without having confirmed exalted forms.

>>52997815
Yeah, the reason I suggested wizard is because I had no idea what kind of character they wanted to make besides "blow shit up" and be controlly.

If they want to play a particular class, then I will be the one to encourage them the most to go for it. Sounds like in this particular case they really want to be a warlock and have a character in mind. For that, I suggest fiendlock so they can blow shit up. And I'd also encourage them to not just be an EB turret all day everyday and try to make use of their at will abilities in order to be cool out of combat as well.

>>52997852
Honestly I was surprised when Whisper didn't upgrade after that fight, then again could be Mercer hadn't made anything for it yet.

>>52997796
I think Matt said Awakened is different from Exalted. The wings showed up once Vax agreed to become the Raven Queen's Champion (and took a level in Paladin to show it). Most of the others became Exalted after character-driven events (Grog fighting Earthbreaker Groom, Fenthras after Vex's completion of the Grey Hunt).

Mythcarver went Exalted because Matt knew the Pit Fiend was at like 5 HP and didn't want the party to cut loose and run after being so close to the finish line, which is why he (and literally everyone else at the table) had to scream at Sam to stab the damn Pit Fiend to make it Omnislash the thing.

Cabal's Ruin went Exalted because Percy ate a Meteor Swarm and was looking to avoid some of the damage from it, not expecting the cloak to actually om nom the meteor that hit him.

>>52997895
I thought it did as it got longer apparently, but we don't know what that means or if it changed at all.

>>52997900
I recall him saying that they all had 3 tiers Dormant, Awaken, and Exalted. So I assume they all have 3 forms. Exalted being the final version.
Waits for the campaign guide for more concrete rules.

>>52997873

>Deathwalker's Ward - Exalted
As a reaction to getting hit by an element you're not attuned to, change the attunement on it to that element. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again or change the attunement until you take a long rest.

> Spire of Conflux - Exalted
While in Wild Shape, Polymorph, or True Polymorph form, you may cast any of the spells that Spire of Conflux can normally cast at 2x their normal cost.

> Whisper - Exalted
If you kill a foe with this weapon, you gain temporary HP equal to the killed target's max HP, as the dagger devours the soul of the killed target.

> Fenthras - Exalted
Once a long rest you can spend an Action to turn into an Avatar of the Feywild. While in this form you gain the following benefits: Extra Attack (2), as a Move action travel your current speed via teleportation via plants so long as you start and end connected to a plant, gain temp. HP equal to WIS modifier x Ranger level.

It should also be mentioned that the "honorary" Vestige of the group are the Boots of Speed, which are like Boots of Haste only without the 1 round "cooldown" period after the 10 rounds of Concentration-free Haste wear off.

>>52997966
Have they even had a combat long enough for that to come up?

>>52997988
In one of the PvP "alternate reality" fights it came up, and it also mattered in the first fight vs. Raishan, as Vax used the boots against Thordak and went into the fight with Raishan with them wearing off.

>>52997947
I really like the Whisper and Fenthras ones, they are really strong but neat. How does this sound?

>Deathwalkers Ward - Exalted
While attuned to this armor once per day if you were to fail a death saving throw you may instead choose succeed it.

>Spire of Conflux- Exalted
While attuned to this staff you gain a +3 to spell save DCs and Spell Attacks. Whenever you cast a spell that deals fire, ice, or lightning damage and you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage dice you can reroll the dice and must use the new result. You now regain 1d8+2 charges at dawn.

>Whisper-Exalted
If you kill a target with this dagger you learn of the targets past. You learn their full name, and their biggest kept secret.

>Fenthras-Exalted
...I can't think of anything I would probably just use the one you made.

>>52997999
Oh yeah I forgot about that, mostly because they normally have fights over with before it's an issue because Mercer doesn't follow his own DM tips advice in play monsters smart and not just bloat HP and AC.

Except for Raishan, that the only time that sticks out where the monster actually felt like it was fighting smart.

>>52998027
I just stole the Whisper one from Blackrazor, which was the original "ow, the edge" weapon in D&D.

Fenthras one was inspired by where the bow came from (an Archfey in the Feywild) and the stuff that occurred during that fight (the dude teleported around and stayed merged with the plants in the battle arena).

Deathwalker's Ward is really fucking strong, not only do you get advantage on death saves and have resistance to the more common damage elements (so long as you're aware of what you're fighting ahead of time), being able to Fly without using a Concentration slot is insane. It's part of the reason why "mach speed Vax" is so funny; Flying, Hasted, Move Action + double Dash makes him move something like 500 ft. in 6 seconds, and if he just uses Move + Bonus Action Dash, he can then throw Whisper 60 ft. forward without Disadvantage thanks to Sharpshooter and bamf the rest of the distance.

Hell, Rogue 14/Paladin 6 is probably one of the more nova builds in 5th edition.

>>52998034
He has to bloat HP for most of his "boss" fights, because VM's party makeup is 4 DPS classes (Gunslinger Fighter, Zerker Barbarian/Fighter, Assassin Rogue/Vengence Paladin, Beastmaster Ranger/Assassin Rogue) and the other 3 classes have good damage skills too (Lore Bard, Moon Druid, War Cleric).

If he used the normal HP totals of the dragons most of them would die in 2-3 rounds thanks to focus fire tactics.

Raishan fight was so lethal because it was an Ancient Green Dragon stats with Ancient Dragon max HP stapled to what was basically a level 20 Wizard.

As much shit that Keyleth gets, the Feeblemind on Raishan in that fight was the MVP play of the game.

In comparison to Critical Role, how do people like Dice Camera Action?

>>52998129
Sadly can't comment too much on it, as I've only seen a few episodes.

Obviously audio and camera aren't as good, as it's desktop cameras + Skype + overlays vs. multi-thousand dollar production equipment. Perkins is a fine DM, and the players were ok. It just sucks that they have to play in 2 hour segments due to their schedules, as I feel an extra hour or two would really speed up a lot of the stuff for Perkins and allow for some more roleplay moments.

>>52998113
True but the way I solved it is, don't leave a big bad alone the action economy will rape any monster you have. Which is why Mercer has to do that even though it's suggested not to, he leaves his boss guys alone even when it'd make sense to have minions around.

Also yes the feeble mind was the play for that fight.

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>first time playing DnD
>pick chaotic neutrual
>I'm a traveller who doesn't like to be bound to one place, enjoys nature but rough living for prolonged periods makes me look forward to seeing people
>travells to see every town, meet intresting people, have a drink at every pub and try new dishes
>doesn't feel obligated to risk himself for others but is happy to help at no expense to himself and has no intrest in dispencing justice but will stop violence if he's confident he can win without getting hurt
>only adventures enough to cover his costs and has to be convinced to go on quests when he's just finished with one
>probably the darkest trait he has is that he's a swore winner and likes to capture people alive and gloat in victory to the detrimant of the team

>get to game
>two other members are also chaotic neutrual
hahaha damn this is gonna be great

>so I hear you're chaotic neutural, so you're a lol random murder hobo too huh?
>other chaotic neutrual characters instantly stab at people that they suspect are evil
>say "oh well I'm chaotic neutrual" when they're wrong
>actively refuses to allow any non combative gameplay by sneak attacking someone anytime we try to sneak past or killing my captives


i wish I never enabled these people by picking chaotic neutrual. i'm staying away from chaotic as a whole. these people are the worst.

>>52998163
Lair actions are meant to help with the action economy problem for "solo boss fights", and you see it work quite well in the Black Dragon fight, where it was a pretty dangerous encounter when the dragon had access to it's normal stuff + lair actions + Legendary actions.

It's just that for literally every other dragon they decided, "yeah, fuck that, never fighting the dragons on their home turf" and looked to lure them around/away from their lairs and just deal with the issue of them being able to fly and potentially flee with their ranged attackers, hoping that Grog was able to get enough hits in early on to let Vex, Vax, and Percy plink away when the dragons went to flee.

You also saw Lair actions fuck up VM hardcore in the 1st Raishan fight, as she was mostly full HP while VM had used most of their more powerful shit in the Thordak fight. There, you saw lair actions + dragon attacks + Legendary action spellcasting decimate VM, and they only lived by the skin of their teeth when she fled. I think Vex, Pike, and Grog were playing nurses for the KOed members, Scanlan was dead, Vax was nearly dead, Percy was low, and Keyleth face-planted into lava when Raishan fled the fight with the eggs and she tried to chase after her.

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>>52998184
I hate people who pull this

>>52998184
perfect time for a threadly reminder for people like your 2 retard players

ALIGNMENT DESCRIBES NOT DEFINES

also they clearly have no clue what alignments mean because even a chaotic evil doesnt murderhobo unless they have the int and wisdom of a fucking ogre

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>>52998184
>2017
>Playing with alignments

When will Humanity learn?

>>52997849
>Even though wolf barbarian is pretty damn strong, they all go bear barbarian because they're scared of getting features that benefit only others

>>52998237
Getting advantage isn't as hard as getting resistance to every damage type but 1 breh

>>52998235
5e's alignments don't actually mean anything or do anything for the most part, they're just simple descriptors of characters, so it's not really 'playing with alignments' in the same way you could say you're 'playing with red racecars' - the fact the racecars are red doesn't really matter, it's just a thing about it.

>>52998249
But advantage is much, much more useful, considering the barbarian is already the toughest guy there most likely and only so and most damage tends to be physical.

>>52994156
I hate when people subtract the crit chance from the hit chance.

And it has led to an error in calculating the chance to hit and crit with advantage. Chance to hit AC 19 with +9 to hit is 55%, with a 5% chance to deal (extra crit damage), and chance to hit with advantage is 79.75% with a 9.75% chance to deal (extra crit damage). Or 70% and 9.75% if you want to split it out.

It does mean you have to redo this>>52995509. though I only see marginal differences in your totals. (I have 36.528349984375 for Barb5/Rogue6 V.Human DW with Rapiers, for example. I don't think I'm missing anything.)

>>52994456
>And Rangers get spells
I am a level 4 ranger. I know 3 spells, and can cast three spells PER DAY. A level 4 fighter knows 3 maneuvers and can use 4 of them per short rest. It gets better at level 5. (I hope.)

Also: Cast Hunter's Mark, miss. Enemy runs away. Cast Ensnaring Strike, miss. Get KO'd. Etc. BM maneuvers always work because they're applied post hit.

We don't actually have a fighter though, so I only look bad when I miss every attack for several rounds because fuck me, I don't know why I can't hit AC 12.
>>52994636
The abilities do not require you to know the DM's roll. If the DM shows you their rolls or not is entirely up to the DM. There isn't a rule. Sorry. Feel free to tell them it isn't a rule their way either though. They're just choosing to be a dick.

>>52995633
>Sorcerers are good if you have no idea how to play wizard
Implying anyone who can't understand how to play wizard can suddenly understand how to play sorcerer instead of wasting all their slots missing with scorching ray and chromatic orb.
>>52995735
>divine intervention
Rename it to "wish upon a star" or something.

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>>52998274
>But advantage is much, much more useful
Yes, but it's also a lot easier to get. Even if you can only get advantage for a round by tripping or something, that should be more than enough for the melee dudes to go full ham on the baddie.

And being very tough is still good for a barbarian and can help the group out by mitigating damage dealt.

>>52998276
>Wasting all their slots missing with scorching ray and chromatic orb
That's fine. They have a bit of extra health, they have mage armour without having to remember to actually cast it and they don't have to worry abot using rituals or how they learn their spells. They just have a simple 'chromatic orb' on their sheet and cast it at everything and they're done.
They'd only do the same on wizard, except be overwhelmed with choice.
And then they can twin chromatic orb and feel 'cool' about it.

>>52998276
Good you picked up on that, but I'd already fixed that before I posted >>52995509 (You|Cross-thread).
As a matter of fact, I'd been doing it wrong for a long time now.

I can't quite remember why I split it out, but I think there was a reason in there somewhere.

>>52998288
Meatshielding isn't really so much a thing. It tends to be more 'You're being attacked because the enemy has nothing else to attack they can easily attack'. Sort of.
If that wizard is close enough they could just run around you and clobber him instead, and the best way to prevent that is to allow teammates to do more damage.
I will say though if you want to be tanky and grant advantage you could wear a shield and then shove everything prone, so I guess. But while you can often easily grant advantage, you can never reliably have it as often as you can with a wolf barbarian, and it's more the fact the barbarian is actually supporting the team in that case rather than just being a massive wad of health that deals damage.

>>52998276
>I am a level 4 ranger. I know 3 spells, and can cast three spells PER DAY. A level 4 fighter knows 3 maneuvers and can use 4 of them per short rest. It gets better at level 5. (I hope.)
At level 5 Fighter gets nothing and Ranger now has 6 spells slots

>Cast Hunter's Mark, miss. Enemy runs away
Change the target with a bonus action?

>Cast Ensnaring Strike, miss.
>"The next time you hit a creature with a weapon attack before this spell ends"

>BM maneuvers always work because they're applied post hit
They require a Save same as Ranger and Ranger's aren't expended if they miss half the time.

If you're going to type out that much shit at least read the fucking book.

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>>52998324
Is there anything wrong with that, though?

That's what a barbarian is. They're a wad of health that deals damage. And the bear totem helps them be a wad of health by making it harder to take them down. With potential feats like Sentinel, meatshielding can be a thing as well. Likewise, a barbarian can make themselves a big target with reckless swings and a fair amount of monsters still deal elemental damage.

I'd rather have a bear totem barb and a battlemaster fighter giving melee dudes advantage via tripping or the like. Is wolf totem very good? Yes. Is it better than Bear? Arguable, but Bear is as valid a choice as wolf.

Is there any way to make a TWF character in 5e that doesn't suck?

>>52998324
>>52998374
>I'm the one person in the world who took Eagle for fluff reasons

Fuck me dead.

>>52998399
Honestly... Yeah. eagle is pretty shit for doing barbarian things though let's be real.I cannot argue a single reason why you should take it.

>>52998339
>at least read the fucking book.
Please do.
>>52998304
>I think there was a reason in there somewhere.
It makes getting the numbers on bonus crit damage right easier, for some people.

>twin chromatic orb and feel 'cool' about it.
My party's sorc twinned Chromatic Orb. He missed with both. He does not feel cool.

>>52998399
You can't use Eagle's action on the turn you rage because they're both bonus actions. Barbs don't usually run away from things so the other part of it is kinda meh. It's biggest use is getting from one target to the next so that you can hit stuff to keep rage from going down, I guess.

Gotta run fast.

>>52998389
Half-Elf Barbarian, take Elven Accuracy and go crit fishing. Not great but it works.

>>52998389
Ranger is decent with it, especially when Hunter's Mark is involved. Paladin, despite not getting TWF, is also good with it, since it gives them more crit-fishing for smites, and it does superb damage at 11th onward (1d6+1d8 without a feat as a bonus action is pretty good).

>>52998431
>>52998408
I was an Elf. My DM let me change it to Elk later though.

>>52998432
>Give up your first TWO ASI's to take Elven Accuracy and Dual Wielder feats

lol okay. enjoy having 16 strength at level 8.

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>>52998432
That's the only way though? Kinda lame.

So I was listening to TAZ and Griffin mentioned "this 5e app" which he said was great and basically described as letting him try out all kinds of different character builds. Anyone know what app he was talking about?

Also I have a decent new phone and aside from the spellbook app I've yet to digitise much of my DMing. Any other suggestions for good DnD apps?

>>52998447
>Dual Wielder
Not really worth it mate... Also Barbarian can actually live with low strength better then anyone. The always advantage helps.

Average attack roll of 18ish before strength is applies and three attacks per round getting Rage damage. High chance of at least 1 crit. As I said it's not great but it works.

>>52998453
Swashbuckler or Paladin. Try to convince your DM to let you take TWF on a Paladin.

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>>52998469
>>52998445
Alright, tell me more about TWF paladin cuz the idea interests me.

Also, how's inspiring leader for a feat? If I make a cha focused character, it seems like basically an extra levels worth or two of HP for the group per short rest. Am I being misled by efficiency?

>>52997665
She's a playing a druid the way anyone else would play a sorcerer

>>52998374
The whole point is 'crippling overspecialization'. You can boost your health higher and higher and higher but really you're better off dealing more damage over boosting your health, since that actually protects your teammates better by having enemies die before they hurt your teammates, because if you get into a routine of 'being really fucking hard to kill' it's quite likely there'll be a lot of encounters where you'll struggle to have enemies focus on you, even if you can stop one of them from running sometimes.
If you have some partymembers who will definitely be throwing advantage out left right and centre (Say, a shieldmaster) or only maybe 2 or less melee buddies wolf is certainly debatable, but if you've got 3 other people on your team who do melee, I'd call it ill-advised to not take it.

>>52998399
It.. Could use buffs.

>>52998409
>numbers on bonus crit damage
If I had hit chance be both hit and crit chance and crit chance be solely the crit chance, I can still use crit chance for all those other things and I can stop typing [Hit chance's cell]+[Crit chance's cell] for everything which is a pain. I'm not seeing any reason I actually should have split it up other than it was bugging me.

>Missed with both
Eh, his problem if he gets bad rolls.
I'm still not sure if twinned spells require two attack rolls. I think it's something like 'One attack, two targets', because twinned spell specifically only increases the number of targets.

>>52998478
Inspiring leader is pretty underrated. Unless you've got something like a Shephard druid to give everyone temporary hit points easily, it's a solid way to harden an entire party.

If you've got decent Cha and your primary stat (if different) is fine, it's worth taking.

>>52998478
It's more of a feat for pure Charisma people. They do it better and don't need as many ASI.

For Paladin I'd go Half-Elf or Human, for your human feat take Dual-Wielder. Then ask your DM if you can take TWF.

Basically you want Advantage as much as possible to get a lot of chances to crit, when you crit you super smite. At level 11 you do 6d8+15 damage each round across your attacks with three chances to smite.

PAM probably does the same thing a little bit better but you get +1 AC and better magical weapon access. Also you look cool.

>>52998469
>Not worth it
TWF lets the barb get the extra damage on their off-hand attack. You sacrifice that and you automagically lose out on a minimum of +3 damage. Not only that, but you're restricted to using light weapons in both hands, which means your average damage goes down by 2 per round. Even if you're getting those crits, you're using inferior weapon types. Every crit with shortswords is 2 damage less on average than a crit with a longsword.

>>52998389
Barbarogue is probably your best bet. If you're a ranger, you might as well use hand crossbows or a ranged weapon or something. If you're a fighter it's just lame. If you're a paladin it's only good if your DM banned PAM. If you're a bladesinger it works but you're still not really too melee focused. If you're a melee rogue then you'll probably want to be getting advantage and only using one sword for BB/GFB but it's nice to keep two swords there in case you go against a high AC enemy, I guess.

>>52998432
I don't recall half-elves having access to elven accuracy. Did they get it?

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>>52998517
But you're not crippling yourself by being a bear barbarian. How are you crippling yourself by taking it? Honestly, I think point for point, Wolf and bear totem are equally very good. But bear is generally easier to work into a build, and is less reliant on having a melee focused team to benefit from it. Afterall, if you and someone else are the only frontliners in a group - again, it's not really worth it since the ranged get no benefit. But you'll always benefit from resisting fire damage or acid damage.

>>52998531
TWF and Dual-Wielder are different things. Dipping Champion 3 for TWF and increased crit chance is probably a good idea but I don't think going up a die size is really worth the feat investment.

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>>52998537
Half-elves can get Elven Accuracy. The best usage I've come up with it so far is half-elf barbarian with a longsword + shield tank combo that critfishes to make up for meh-tier stats. Neat flavor and it works really well for a tank build; level 4, 45 HP, 17AC and the ability to crit 15% of the time?

>>52998554
Like, 18.something I thought. I know with Champion dip it goes up retardedly high.

>>52998553
I meant the Dual-Wielder feat, my apologies. My point still stands, though.

Level 8
Choose ASI over Dual Wielder:
Average attack without crits, both attacks hit:
3d6 (shortswords) +8(strength) +6(triple rage) = 24.5 average damage on three hits

Choose Dual Wielder over ASI:
Average attack without crits, both attacks hit (but all attacks have -1 to hit):
3d8 (longswords) +9(strength) +6(triple rage) = 28.5 average damage on three hits

If any of them crit, the dual wield build spikes even harder.

>>52996557
>Ranger. Doesn't range about. Stays in one place. Wat?

>>52998524
>it's a solid way to harden an entire party.

OR YOUR UNDEAD ARMY

>>52998552
>Always benefit
Except when enemies are using physical damage or attacking one of your teammates instead of you.

Of course, wolf is sort of situational, but you control that situation by party composition. Either you'll have melee players, or you won't. You can't so easily control if the DM attacks you or other teammates or so easily control what damage types you'll encounter.

>>52998554
I'd probably say to use it on a barbarogue for more chance of critical sneak attack.

If you're going sword and board on a barbarian, you might as well start taking levels of rogue since you're not going anywhere after level 5.

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>>52998656
>Except when enemies are using physical damage
Irrelevant

>attacking one of your teammates instead of you.
Also irrelevant. Picking wolf totem barbarian will not make enemies hit you first either way.

>>52998656
>Start taking levels of rogue
Booooring. You miss out on the best part of being a Barbarian, which is the massive health pool and the ribbons. I want those Brutal Longsword criticals, the inability to be caught off-guard, the inability to fucking die, the neato totem stuff and the flavor of being a UNDYING MEAT TANK that's also an elf with grace, style and precision.

Rogue just doesn't do that well enough for me.

>>52998661
It's not irrelevant, because if those things happen then much like people not melee attacking things within 5ft of you as a wolf barbarian or having advantage from something else, bear barbarian's feature is wasted.

>>52998677
>Massive health pool
And yet you can be even tankier with stuff like uncanny dodge.
>Boring
And yet you get more mobility, skill expertise for better grapples and all that.
>Ribbons
Some of it's kinda fun, but still.
>The inability to die
Once you hit uncanny dodge levels, it's arguable whether barbarogue or barbarian is tougher.


And the rogue part pretty much gives you that 'grace, style and precision'. ... Along with more damage.

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>>52998704
>It's not irrelevant, because if those things happen then much like people not melee attacking things within 5ft of you as a wolf barbarian or having advantage from something else, bear barbarian's feature is wasted.

How often does a game go where you aren't being targeted by elemental attacks? Where it's nothing but slash/pierce/bludgeoning from 1-20?

It is irrelevant, because the chances of that are again, 0%. And, you are not going to worry innately about your allies getting hit or not because a barbarian can't stop that most of the time. Bear totem mostly shines when you're getting hit with party wide attacks like dragon breath or fireball or similar spells, which will happen often.

Again, you're much more likely to get advantage through other means, than resistance to a blue dragons lightning breath 9 out of ten times.

>>52996126
Hoping for some class specific Feats in the next UA.

What ideas would you include?

I have a few examples.

Spell Bombardier (Requires levels in Wizard, Sorcerrer, Druid or Cleric)

You gain a +1 in Int, Wis or Cha.

Spells you cast that have an area of effect have their radius doubled or cones/cubes extended by 5 ft.

Supreme Ki body (Requires levels in Monk):

+1 to Wis

You gain additional Ki points equal to half your character level.

Supreme Sorcerrer body (requires levels in Sorcerrer):

+1 Con

You gain additional Sorcerry points equal to half your Sorcerrer level.

Unarmed Assasin (requires Monk or Rogue)

Your unarmed Strikes deal 1d4+Dex damage unless you gain them from another feature (pick which you want to use) and are functional with the Sneak Attack feature.

If you don't posses the Sneak Attack feature you gain it and the Sneak Attack die becomes (Character levle/3 rounded down)d6.

>>52998725
>A barbarian can't stop that most of the time
I mean, this is one of barbarian's jobs. Stopping that.
And they can stop it.
By killing the enemies doing the damage.
And if you can help others kill those enemies faster, you'll helping keep your allies safe.

And if you're getting blasted with AoE spells, chances are your teammates are going to go down before you, so you don't need to worry about that so much.

It's worth mentioning that resistance to damage types are quite popular for magical items. And there are some races that give a few damage resistances. Advantage is easier to get, but advantage applies much better than resistance to non-physical damage. At level 5 a fighter could use one of their two (possible three or four) attacks to 'potentially' knock an enemy prone and make it harder for ranged attacks to hit and easier for them to hit, but it'd be better to just have it straight away. Then they've more of their GWM attacks, which benefit quite greatly from advantage, to hit with.

What we really need is one of those anons with those fight simulations and calculations on what percentage of attacks at various level will deal what damages, and how often it actually matters when you consider killing the enemies is more important than the tankiest member's further tankiness.

>>52998704
If that's your cup of tea, go for it. It just seems hugely clunky that you have to use a finesse weapon but opt to do strength damage with it in order to reckless/sneak, and then you're putting Evasion off until level 12 and missing out on all the fun barbarian stuff.

Multiclassing doesn't appeal to me all that much, though. I'm biased against it, if only because I'd much rather enjoy more simple synergies between class+feat rather than a more complicated three-way synergy with secondary classes and whatnot.

>>52996304
>>wants to play again with the same character
>>this time wants to bring his GF

Have the Monk player or the Paladin player cuckold him.

>>52996341
He's right on revised ranger being better and PHB ranger being a joke.
Revised ranger is OK as long as you don't allow multiclassing for Underdark and Beastmaster ranger.

But he's a cunt who ''rolls stats at home'' so it's good that you chased him away.

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>>52998794
The wolf totem makes barb as sufficiently killy by himself as the bear totem does. That is to say, none more killy than either. You're right, it enables the other melee friends of the barbarian to get advantage, though.

If you're getting blasted with AoE spells, that means everyone will probably need attention, but if you require less attention, your casters might have other options open to them to handle the threat - whether it's controls spells or healing o what have you.

Magic items are not a guarantee, races generally provide one, maybe two resistances at most. Barbarians only become non resistant to psychic damage, i'd take that over getting just one resistance by far.

To me, the choice basically seems to be 'Would you like chocolate cake, or would you like red velvet cake?' Both are equally pretty fucking great and I would say it's hard to pick a 'wrong' choice outright. Advantage is really powerful in a group that can take advantage of it.

But I would argue being hard to take down is also very powerful in its own right. Neither option impedes your base killy potential.

>>52998467
Any tips lads?

>>52996678
Play a Wood Elf (the other elves are fine too), Human , V. Human or Halfling.

Max out your Dex as early as possible.

Then max out your Wis.

Grab the Mobile or Alert feat when you can.

What's the problem with rolling stats? How unbalanced does the game become?

>>52998901
>What's the problem with rolling stats?
everything

>How unbalanced does the game become?
very

>>52998901
Dunno, it sounds fun.

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>>52998928

>>52996887

Here are my ideas:

>Storm Bolt

Cantrip, Evocation

Casting time: Action

Components: S

Range: 60 ft

Duration: instantaneous

Yo create a ball of concentrated lightning and throw it at a target within range.
You make a ranged spell attack.
On a hit the target takes 1d8 lightning damage.
The damage scales with your character level to 2d8 at lvl 6, 3d8 at lvl 10 and 4d8 at lvl 16.
Flamable objects the spell hits are set on fire.

>Lightning Strikes

LvL 1, Evocation

Casting time: Bonus action

Components: S

Range: Self

Duration: Concentration up to 1 minute

For the duration of this spell any melee weapon attacks you make deal additional lightning damage equal to 1+your Spell Casting modifier.
When casting this spell at higher levels extend its duration by 1 minute per spell level.