/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

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Praise the Empress and long live the motherland.

Well The battle engines I think will be some of the hardest Models to balance in the game ever.

Its effectively a large based very expensive Solo thats not a warrior model.

Just ordered the Legends of Halaak and a Scarab Pack, with plans to use them in Makeda1. How did I do?

>>52990181
Legends of Halaak are passable, not super great, but passable.

Scarabs are fucking worthless with every single caster though. You fucked up bad there.

>>52990384
I was only kidding, I know they're really strong with Makeda1 and you're probably gay.

So with the battle pope dead, how does /wmhg/ think the Menothbowl is going to go down?

Who makes the first move?
Who will be on which side?
Will there be more than the two obvious sides?
Who, if anybody, is going to win it in the end?

>>52990857
Amon wins.

>>52990857
Fluffwise Kreoss vs Feora is pretty obvious with Vindictus trying to be the power behind the thrown of either. Kreoss is obviously less of a powermongering dipshit than Feora, but Feora is more politically savvy and already has the loyalty of the entire Flameguard and backing from some of the Synod and at least two other Warcasters. I expect that Kreoss will lose the power struggle although I'm not sure Feora will get power or keep it for long if she does.

>>52991059
>The Protectorate being led by a heretic
Lel.

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>>52990857
>God said I'm in charge now tee hee.

>>52991239
Harby and the Testament are MIA as of Godless and nobody knows where they are. The Northern Crusade is getting recalled and Skorne is all up in the Protectorate's business. Feora is in charge of the largest arm of the Protectorate's military and the one assigned to defending the country itself. You don't think she's going to claim power on the auspices of making Sul Great Again?

>>52990857
How did the old man die?

>>52991495
>Harby and the Testament are MIA as of Godless and nobody knows where they are
;^)

>>52991527
You really shouldn't fuck with Hexeris in close combat. Or distant combat. Or just at all honestly, he's both powerful AND psychotic.

>>52991527
Hexeris stabbed him through the chest IIRC. Before he dies, he goes Super Saiyan, nukes all the attacking Skorne, and brings all the dead Menites killed back to life.

Skorne are the biggest assholes, if they ever actually win anything, the entire setting is fucked.

Which means Skorne will never win anything just to protect continuity

Are Skorne Tyranids?

>>52991594
So is hexxy -10hp as well?

>>52991709
Everblight

>>52990134
I just hope to have the Animantarax go back to its late Mk2 at the least. Didn't go in every list, and still wasn't that great a piece, but it fucking worked.

>>52991801
Skorne are Necrons.

Are the joke gargatuans in MKII usuable now, or are they still shelf pieces?

>>52991909
Nah, Skorne are Dark Elves.

Necrons are Cryxians.

Man Khador remains my favorite faction, and the reason why I think it will continue to benefit from its themes more then any other faction is because how easily expandable all its infantry is and how thematic yet different they all are:

MOW, Kolduns(+DoomReavers), Winter Guard, Iron Fangs, Kossites and Wild Khador: All present different aspects to be naturally expanded apon.

Who really thinks that Trencher Mechanics or Long-gunners sounds organic or interesting?

Yes Wild Koldun Lords or Koldun Lord Iron Fang: All workable concepts.

>>52991941
Depends on which Joke. The MK is now a really solid piece or so I hear.

The Giant Snake from Everblight now is the only huge model with any form of reposition so thats that.

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I tried to make a thing, turns out Warroom text doesn't rescale well. What a coincidence.

>>52992167
Why not just use War Room and dance yourself the trouble?

>>52992059
Actually the Siege Animantarax has Reposition 3"

Also Xerxis2 has built in Sprint if you count that too.

Technically Morghoul3 can also make the SA apparate.

>>52992059
I do love the Kings. Sadly the Sea King is ridiculously overpriced.

>>52992059
Lylyth 3 has repo 5

>>52992315
Alright, I should have Said Gargossal.

>>52992059
But what about the Desert Hydra?

>>52992251
I like muh physical cards, and I prefer being able to cross-reference rules and check damage boxes on a binder page instead of pulling them up and/or ticking them off one at a time in the app.

I also play tabletop games to take a break from being at a computer or on a smartphone constantly in the first place.

>>52992043

>Trollbloods
Mountain King: Great
Glacier King: Mediocre
Sea King: Bad

>Circle
Woldwrath: Great
Storm Raptor: Mediocre/Bad

>Legion
Blightbringer: Good/Great
Archangel: Mediocre

>Skorne
Mammoth: Great
Desert Hydra: Good/Great (and, honestly, if the infantry meta comes back, which PP seems to be trying to make happen, it's a solid Great)


They're mostly pretty good. Unfortunately the two with the best models (Storm Raptor and Archangel) are among the worst.

>>52993129
An Archangel (or 2!) works pretty well with Lylyth3 in the right build. Double Dragon might be a meme, but it's a deadly meme for a lot of things.

Legion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation

(Lylyth 3) Lylyth, Reckoning of Everblight [+29]
- Archangel [37]
- Archangel [37]
- Naga Nightlurker [8]
- Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11]
- Succubus [0(4)]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
The Forsaken [0(4)]
The Forsaken [0(4)]
Blackfrost Shard [9]

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>>52989766
Why is Scrapjack so sad
>Feels bad comrade

>>52995363
Why does seem so plausible that under the effect of Avatar of Slaughter, it's sad yellow turns into mad red?

>>52994061
Oh, yeah, it's definitely playable with a list built around it, but it doesn't drop in basically anywhere like the Mammoth or Mountain King.

>>52990857
>Who makes the first move?
Feora

>Who will be on which side?
Kreoss will get the nice guys on his team like Tristan and Durst, while Feora will obviously get Thyra and probably Malekus as well.

>Will there be more than the two obvious sides?
Remember, both Kreoss and Feora have to answer to the Scrutators, of whom Vindictus is one. In fact, he might even get epic'd into the rank of Visgoth. The conflict is going to start when Feora starts making moves under command's nose OR when Kreoss becomes unsatisfied with their leadership choices. Vindy is probably going to lead the visgoth-loyal forces against them (along with Reznik), but will be quickly defeated/have his army stolen by Kreoss so the two-way civil war can begin in earnest.

Later on, the Harbinger and the Testament are going to come back to Caen, possibly at the head of a host of Menoth's spirit warriors. Even if this latter part doesn't happen, they're going to draw a lot of warriors to their side, either creating a third major team in the Menothbowl OR tipping the scales in one side's favor.

>Who, if anybody, is going to win it in the end?
I want it to be Vindy, but I know it will probably be Kreoss.

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>sending your long ranged infantry into battle with a huge ass flag that tells the enemy where you are

>local organizer selling $3k worth of Cryx for $1.5k on FB
IT'S OVER, WARMACHINE IS FINISHED

>>52996467

Man those faces are sculpted like shit

>>52996511
That's pretty standard for used miniatures. He'll be lucky if he gets what he's asking

>>52991941
Well let's see, shall we:
Legion: Both are okay, BB will make a huge comeback when infantry does, AA is already viable
Trollbloods: GK and MK both have their niches
Skorne: Mammoth was always good and Hydra just found its niche as the anti-shooting Garg
Circle: WW is amazing with the right casters, Thunderchicken is pure jank

>>52997907
>Thunderchicken is pure jank

How so?

>>52997907
GK is not very good

MK is the perfect Gargant

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Finally got arcs on my Circle, and everything fits into a PP halfbag (tourney).

I'm happy.

>>52998438
>MK is the perfect Gargant
Funny way of spelling Mammoth.

>>52998772
To be fair, MK lacks the Mammoth's tendency to fishhook everything in range of those goddamned tusks. Trying to get my Mammoth to the store with my other titans feels like trying to pull one coathanger out of a big pile. I should have fallen for the magnetism meme.

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>>52998854
>that feel

>>52999061
Seriously what were they thinking with that model
Did they not expect those tusk to get caught on EVERYTHING

>>52997938
Well there's that one list Tom Guan played a while back where it does one very specific job rather well. Apart from that it's utter trash.

>>52998438
>GK is not very good
Depends on your warlock.

>>53000679
>Depends on your warlock.

No.

If the MK is the gold standard of Gargants, as in it's 'just right' on the power curve, the GK is under powered as any list (now that Una is dead) that has a GK in it is better served by a MK. Even Gunny.

>>53000901
Out of curiosity, in MK Gunny lists, what are you putting Snipe on?

I've been enjoying playing him with a sniped GK for long range Thunderbolts, but with it much harder to win on scenario now it seems weaker.

>>52996511
used minis almost never sell for even msrp. he's probably selling for %60 but will get haggled down.

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>10 years of game design around scenario means the game just cannot be separated from that. Trying to force the issue is just going to destroy the game.

You heard it here first guys, game is dead, close it down.

>>53003678

Can't we just say the game is taking a hard turn onto a neglected road and is rocking a bit, possibly more than anticipated?

>>53004057
Never, there are only extremes. You're either on Team PP is Perfect or Team Everything is Fucked.

>>53004057
What are you talking about
WE MUST OVERREACT IMMEDIATELY

>>53004105
LET'S GET THAT CHANGE.ORG ONLINE PETITION STARTED

Whassup, I haven't been following the game for like... when did Mark 3 come out?

I heard rumors that Severius kicked the bucket (RIP in peace battle pope), and that Goreshade pulled a Magnus (Ghyrrrshyld the forgiven)?

Anyone mind enlightening me?

>>53004775
Read this thread and the previous one. I can't believe Hexxy has a kill on his belt now while my nigga Amon does not.

>>53005077
Going by the old thread's logic Hexxy has two kills. Kallus just meatpuppeted some Skorne rando and got better after Hexxy killed him. Fluff Hexxy is not a person to engage in CQC.

>>53004775
Vinter invaded, Caine found his son Julius and decided not to kill him. Feora showed up to try to distract Leto's army, Vinter almost kills Leto and Julius but Magnus throws acid on him and stabs him in the back. Leto abdicates the throne to Julius, Magnus rejoins the Cygnaran army and Caine quits.

Skorne gets to the capital of Ios, nearly conquers the city. During the battle Goreshade enters the Fane of Scyrah with his Eldritch bros to kill Nyssor and Scyrah. Scyrah wakes up and nukes one of the Eldritch, Nyssor nukes the rest. Scyrah considers nuking Goreshade but realizes that Nyssor spared him because he might actually be able to save the Iosian people, but only if he's alive. She uses a large chunk of her remaining power (implying it will cut her life span significantly) to bring him back to life with out erasing everything he learned as an eldrich.

Two years pass, Khador and Cygnar sign a treaty that says Khador can keep what it has of Llael but they have to pull out of the Thornwood. However they have to give up Llael if a rightful heir to the Llaelese throne is found. Turns out Julius already found one of the old king's daughters and immediately announces it and says Khador has to leave. Ayn calls bullshit, Julius uses it as an excuse to send Stryker, Maddox, and Magnus to invade Riversmet. Also he announces he's gonna marry the princess of Llael.

>cont.

>>53005158
Deneghra makes a pistol-wraith copy of Caine to find out if he has any gifted kids, turns out he does. In the process of kidnapping her the Phantom kills the leader of the Black 13th, the other two join up with Caine to rescue his kid.


Tristan Durant starts having visions about something consuming the Protectorate so he tells Sevvy. They head south and run in to Hexxy trying to take Tower Judgement. Hexxy kills Sevvy but Tristan stops him from taking his soul, Sevvy's last act is to go Godly and nuke a bunch of Skorne. Hexxy then tries to invade Imer with Zaadesh and Xekaar. Feora, Thyra, Tristan, and Malekus barely defend the city until Kreoss shows up to save the day. The Visgoth's recall the Northern Crusade, power struggle between Feora and Kreoss is immanent.

>>53005112
Amon could take him...

>>53005250
Isn't Amon just punch man

>>52995856
>Remember, both Kreoss and Feora have to answer to the Scrutators, of whom Vindictus is one.

That has literally never stopped Feora from doing whatever the fuck she wants.

>>53005345

The Scrutator getting worked over by Hexeris before Tristan and Sevy show up almost doesn't notice over how WTF he still is over how Feora split the Scrutator vote and walked out of what ought to have been a judicial lynching over getting involved (unsuccessfully) in a Cygnaran Civil War into being proclaimed a hero of the Protectorate. Nothing short of blood is going to stop her, and she's already taking that into account in her maneuverings.

>>53005443
>>53005345
What does she even want? To be Heirarch? To invade Cygnar?

>>53005518
She wants to be the new leader of the Decepticons-I mean the Protectorate

>>53005518
>What does she even want?

Power?

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>>52995856
None of that matters. All that matters is whoever gets the true hero on their side, will win.

Played Rasheth v Denny1 pirate theme. My god it was so fucking dull. I'd kill some of his guys, they'd come back next turn, he'd try and shoot some guys, it'd bounce off the Krea's animus. Eventually my opponent cracked and went full tilt for the Mammoth as I'd moved the Castigate bubble away from it. He killed it and thought Denny was safe. So did I until I realised that I could still sneak a Master Tormentor inside Denny's stealth range. See, he stayed 12" away from the PGMT to account for 2" apparition, 4" walk, and 5" stealth. And for a while I was unsuccessfully trying to sneak Karax in through his infantry. Then I remembered the PGMT had Sprint, so I just walked forwards, whipped a dude, ended in 5", popped feat, and killed her with 2 Sunder Spirits on straight dice.

Someone would've hit deathclock if we'd been using it though.

>>53004057
It's been rocking a bit for nearly a year now and instead of trying to keep it stable, they are rocking it harder.

>>53005665
Well that's Feora then, since she has the loyalty of literally all of the Temple Flameguard.

>>53005665
He'll probably die to Durst, after beating on his armor ineffectually for like 15 minutes Viper vs. Mountain style.

The protectorate is crushed, without a leader AND the Old hag unleashed the Grymkin against their asses?

ISIS is in for a ride yo.

>>52989766

Did they spoil the new mercenary casters yet?

>>53007370
If it's not Gorten2 I'm going to fucking jump out a window.

>>53007370
>>53007396
Ossrum2 Cygnar partisan

>>53007396
See ya

>>53007370
Magnus3 (Merc partisan) and ashlynn2

>>53007802
>Magnus3
Where are you getting this information?

>>53007174

It's more that they've called their strength in. And they do so have a leader. They have two leaders.

>>53003678
He's right, hyperbolic but right. There are a lot of poor decisions in SR2017.

>>53008330
>There are a lot of poor decisions in SR2017
Such as? Putting assassination on a pedastal as far as tie breaks are concerned is a sign that PP thinks it will be harder to pull off, which seems about right to me. Look at a SR16 scenario like Recon. You've got 2 flags right out to the side that can only be dominated for 1 point, then a rectangle in the middle that there's no hope of ever controlling. To me SR17 emphasises control of the map and positioning far more, which is what I want in a strategy game. Take the circle zones for example. They can be controlled by a unit, but only if the WHOLE unit is inside. This means that I can place my infantry outside of the circle at a range where you can't stand inside the zone and reach me, and your infantry can't both deal with my threat AND score in the same turn. In turn this puts more emphasis on using solos, as they can control one of these zones by themselves.

>>53008502
Recon is a bad scenario, I agree. I was surprised they viewed that one as the one to carry over, and now are doing a complete re-haul of it.

These scenarios require less map presence then before, not more as you're saying. Winning by 6 is just broken, and the way to fix it (fixed game length) is almost just as broken.

I'm at work now so can't type too much on my phone but removing the idea of scenario victory is like removing rock from rock paper scissors, then it's just scissors and paper, it's just not good game design.

A friend of mine had some good insight during our CID game last night "Why make scenarios more confusing/busy, but in the same stroke make them matter even less" It's at odds with itself from the start

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>>53005250

Actually if you keep track, it's pretty much "Hexeris tanks half the Protectorate warcaster lineup". The guy's skillset means that he can't lose so long as he has troops or warbeasts, and if he runs out, he'll GTFO.

>well, a third
>maybe a quarter
>but certainly about that

>>53008587
The games I've played we just used the old win-at-5-points rule. Worked fine.

>>53005443
The sweetest thing would be for her to beat Kreoss but then get stabbed in the back by Thyra.

>>53009039
I don't see how that would happen. Feora saved Thyra's life and gave her a purpose and a way to channel her grief and anger. Thyra's fanatically loyal to Feora.

>>53009077
That's why it would be cool to see a betrayal, as long as the reason for it isn't too stupid.

>>53009197
I guess I just don't see how engineering said betrayal would be anything other than stupid. Thyra's the least likely person to turn on Feora. Malakus would be a better bet, as he's only really Feora's PR guy. Thyra owes Feora everything, in her own view. I just don't think it would be anything other than contrived and drama for its own sake.

>>53008686
Yeah but that's not the proposed changes and we're never going to see that happen in sr2017.

On the Old thread's notches on belt post:

Goreshade almost killed Vyros and Ossyan
Vyros is the reason Goreshade is an eldritch
Abby almost killed Naaresh
Vlad killed Harbinger
Vindictus captured Vlad
Kromac almost killed Borka and Madrak
Venethrax was gonna fuck Everblight's waifu till he gave Abby the powers to run away
Rhyas almost killed Thagrosh and killed a dragon
Xerxis almost killed Grayle and Kaya and killed an Iosan warcaster
Kreuger attempted to kill Lortus and got his shit fucked
Mohsar teleported an entire Skorne contingent including warlocks (notably Mordikaar) away iirc
Baldur had his shit pushed in by Lylyth
Asphyxious killed a lich lord and sent Terminus to the void
Haley fucked up a bunch of people, Deneghra included
Stryker fucked up a fair number of people, Terminus, Magnus and Voyle included
Caine almost killed Macbain, and killed a king and a merc warcaster I can't remember the name of
Karchev killed Cathmore
Sloan almost killed Karchev and Irusk
Deneghra fucked up Karchev and I think Strakhov
Kaelyssa killed Zaal and fucked up Zerkova
Butcher fucked up Siege
Terminus held his own vs. Damiano and Kreoss
Vinter fucked up Makeda for days
Hexeris killed Kallus and Severius
Magnus killed Vinter
Carver killed Barnabas and fucked up Midas

>>53010025
Denny blew a Trencher.

>>53010025
Wasn't there also a story where Rahn bullied Scaverous?

It may also be worth mentioning that Sorscha once froze Haley solid and almost killed her.

>>53010025
Madrak killed an Omnipotent. I can't remember which one.

Hey /WMG/, some Skorne player who's been out of it for a while due to school and work.

I've always loved both the SA and the Mammoth, but haven't had luck running the SA in any list. With the CID rules for the SA, how successful would a list running both of these be? Is my prediction of just getting absolutely wrecked on accurate, or is my hope of doing some serious work viable?

I just like big models.

>>53010496

Well, you actually stand a chance to win Spread the Net on scenario, Battle Engines are surprisingly useful for that.

>>53010418
Ergonus.

>>53010385
It was as I recall fiction attached to his Fire from On High NQ theme force. On that note, Kaelyssa also ganked a CoC warcaster and yoinked its soul vessel when she got her Force Wall theme.

>>53008330
Fuck off Grey Templar, you're such a fucking faggot Jesus Christ.

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>Warmahordes without DC

>>53010344
I must know further.
...you know, for research.

>>53008330
Nah, he's wrong and so are you faggot. Only mistakes in SR2017 are with Rumble.

PP is doing the right thing, and telling their """competitive""" base to grow up.

>>53011096
lol sure, I'm gray templar, ya got me.

Go be angry some place else

>>53008330

If there's a mistake, I would say that it's the same old one they always make, yet again- measuring once, cutting twice.

>also, this *is* CID...

>>53010561
What makes them good at that?

Also, I don't think that making a list to try to win scenario on one specific scenario is a good way to win.

>>53011625
>What makes them good at that?

Flags and warnoun zones can get pretty far apart. Battle Engines count as warnouns for zone scoring.

>Also, I don't think that making a list to try to win scenario on one specific scenario is a good way to win.

You'd be playing the Animantarax anyway, it's a cantankerous beastie these days.

>>53010496
So my take on it is to use it with casters who have an ARM buff for it, because it can flank hard and do some insane work, while requiring a dedicated heavy+ to remove from the table.

So Zaadesh2 running it is pretty solid, especially since the damn thing benefits from his feat so much and he can keep the rest of his army safe, meaning the turtle will often be their only feasible target.

>>53005158
>Skorne gets to the capital of Ios, nearly conquers the city. During the battle Goreshade enters the Fane of Scyrah with his Eldritch bros to kill Nyssor and Scyrah. Scyrah wakes up and nukes one of the Eldritch, Nyssor nukes the rest. Scyrah considers nuking Goreshade but realizes that Nyssor spared him because he might actually be able to save the Iosian people, but only if he's alive. She uses a large chunk of her remaining power (implying it will cut her life span significantly) to bring him back to life with out erasing everything he learned as an eldrich.

Interesting plot-point, the soulless that Goreshade dashed the skull of as a monologue prop was supposed to save the life of some Seeker later in life after the Seeker discovered some secret, and Scyrah thought it was pretty important.

I'm not going to tea-leaf read that into stating that the Seekers were the gods' intended way out of the mess they're in, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

>>53010025
>Vindictus captured Vlad

And bitchslapped Feora pretty good, although that was more of an ambush than a fair fight.

>>53008668

Oddly enough, it seems that the bigger the fights get, the less they're described. And they get big. The 4-1 in the middle of a firestorm that finally pitches the Skorne salient out of the city comes after 3 days of fighting that doesn't get as many paragraphs. The Praetorians are dead on their feat (literally, Hexy keeps them going, and if only Feora didn't RFP with fire...). The Mammoth is using its fists. There are days of fighting more to go.

>>52989766

Hey fellas, new player and I need your help with a list. I ran into a really cool dude at my FLGS who helped me build a 75 point list out of what I have and it's working alright for me, but I know there's definitely room for improvement. Here's the list:

Kreoss 1
Hierophant
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance
Templar
Repenter
Repenter
Exemplar Errants + UA
Daughters of the Flame
Min Choir
Flameguard Cleansers + UA
x3 Wrack

The strategy is to cast Defender's Ward on the Errants and then have them tarpit on the front line with Daughters keeping guys off their backs or getting behind engaged enemies to clean them up while Cleansers roast anybody trying to flank. Rhoven & co as well as the Templar protect Kreoss and the Repenters provide backup for the main body of troopers.

What would you guys change in that list? I can get a few extra minis/units so cost isn't an issue right now. Granted I've only played a few games with it but so far Rhoven, the Wrack, and the Hierophant haven't done anything for me. I could replace them with Temple Flameguard + UA so they could tarpit while the Errants start kicking the shit out of people, but most of the guys I talked to said that wasn't a good idea because situations might arise where I'll need those 3 guys I'd have to take out.

Help a newbie out?

Been out of this game since mk2, shortly before the cephalyx dropped.

Can someone give me the lowdown on this new hordes faction? They seem shamelessly ripped from malifaux.

>>53014510
what are the wracks for?

Wouldn't knights examplar work better than errants to screen? cheaper an they hit harder, and that whole pathfinder thing.

If you are playin Kreoss1, I feel like you should be playing a redeemer, if you catch their warcaster in your feat, the redeemer can often splatter their warcaster

>>53015098
they're based off eastern European fairy tales with alternate universe baba yaga at the helm, malfaux didn't invent that shit

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>>53014510
>>53015155

Honestly I think the guy who helped me put the Wracks in because I don't have a whole lot else that can fill a missing 3 points. They haven't done anything for me so far which is why I'm looking to replace them.

Exemplars do hit harder but their armor is a tad less and they come in smaller units. However, if I got rid of the Wrack I could have 2 units of Exemplar which would probably be better.

I'm not married to Kreoss 1 either, he was just the caster that was picked. My last game was objective based (still a little fuzzy on those but had to have caster B2B with the objective to score) and Kreoss was really hampered having to stay at the objective. Barely half the opponent's army was hit when I popped his feat and it wasn't even enough to clear him out of the objective in the center of the board.

My other casters are Feora (all variations, I like fire) and Reznik Wrath of Ages.
I'll add a Redeemer to buy buy list.

Other ones I already have:
Avatar of Menoth
Zealots + UA
Deliverers (which are apparently less than useless)
Cinerators (which really did some work for me in another game I played)

I realize I can't just base my army off of what other people tell me I should play and build lists for me, but I would like some ideas and strategies so I can tailor the list more to my liking.

Thanks for the reply, anon.

>>53015168
Okay, fair enough. But what's their deal? Or are they unreleased?

>>53015691
Unreleased, though there are test rules about. Biggest thing is that the locks don't have feats, but instead have three mini-feats that work off of triggers.

Their fluff is the locks are humans that defied Menoth at the beginning, so he threw them in hell. Then the Old Witch released them. The army is very much fairy tale boogiemen, with things like evil scarecrows, undead soldiers that died in the trenches, cavalry that are pig demons riding around on the backs of gluttonous damned, imps that steal eyeballs with spoons, the like.

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Champions or Warders? Does one fit more into any list that would take infantry?

>>53015691
>>53015098
>>53015168
Never mind the fact that the old IK RPG, which is the basis for the game, featured a lot of gothic horror as well(in fact, roughly more than half the shit in the faction is pulled straight from the old books)

>>53016390

I didn't mention the Monsternomicon khadoran-region grymkin that hides kidnapped children in their own home's walls/under the floorboards for a week or so before it eats them during the CID because it honestly creeped the hell out of me.

There is some seriously dark shit in there. Hollow Men are refreshingly vanilla. Glimmer Imps are almost jaunty. And who doesn't love a giant-spider standing on its hind legs in a trenchcoat?

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Just to show you how toxic the competitive community is:

MOHSAR. SHITTY MOHSAR won a tournament because some faggot got an infernal answer stating that Pillars of Salt weren't models, and from that, realized models couldn't resolve attacks against Pillars of Salt because the rules explicitly state you can only attack models.


>When a model makes an attack, start by declaring its target. Unless stated otherwise, an attack can target any MODEL, whether friendly or enemy.

>Whether an attack hits is determined by making an attack roll. Roll 2d6 and add the MODEL's appropriate stat for the attack type. Roll an additional die if the attack is boosted. Special rules and certain circumstances might modify the attack roll as well.

Since they aren't models, you cannot complete this step. So this faggot ran around with indestructible pillars on demand. And nobody was prepared for the jank so it was GG to him.

>>53017532
RAW, not RAI? Sounds like a PP/Infernal fuckup, props to him on his free win(s). That'll be fixed by the time that the next big event comes around, I'm sure.

>>53017532
Are you that one guy who always rages about competitive players being literally Hitler? What have they done to you? I mean other than beat you at toy soldiers.

That's a collaborative PP/Infernal fuckup. But I guess if it can feed into your persecution complex it will have to do.

>>53017532
Also, source on the ruling? it's not among the recent threads.

>>53017609
No? People bitching about them isn't unique to one person, not on here, on lormahordes, or the PP forums.

>>53017676
Search the forum, I don't know the specific thread, only that it was ruled as such. Enough bitching had Kingdom Con judges ruling that they are models for the purposes of attack and damage rolls only, and PP will likely be putting out an errata for this.

>>53017759
>No? People bitching about them isn't unique to one person, not on here, on lormahordes, or the PP forums
Weird cause I only ever see you. And yes I can tell posted apart, I didn't arrive here today. How can one person be so salty? What kind of problems are you projecting onto this hobby?

>>53017759
>Search the forum
I did. No results. Provide a reference or stop talking out of your ass.

>>53016374
to my understanding and infantry army might want both but for different reasons.

Warders are 5 shield guards, and that is a bitch to deal with. Its a slow but effective delivery system. The champions on the other hand, hurt people.

I don't play trolls personally, but thats my understanding. Warders are a squad of cheap bodyguards. Champions are a more expensive unit that can do more things and are about as tough, but cant shield guard.

>>53017908
Woah, just checked point cost. Im full of shit. Anyone else have an answer?

soooo new steam roller 2017 - end of cygnar and khador domination ? any armies move up ? down - whats the word on the streets bitches ?

>>53018049
Khador is the big winner of SR17.

>>53018184
yup thought so too - Khardor the easy win button edition - hoped that my Cryx might get decent - silly me ! :D

>>53018198
>Having Denny and Coven in your faction
>might get decent

Cryx players are hilarious. I hope your shitty Banez meme still sucks after CID.

>>53017532
Mohsar isn't shitty holy fuck just shut up. Pseudo fury 9 with an assassination feat, arm debuff in a faction with 2 point arc nodes, mirage, a teleport, and pillar of salt? There's no way that could be bad. Do you think Una2 is unplayable despite people having still done well with her at tournaments?

And Mohsar's pillar of salt spell explicitly states that the pillars can be targeted and charged as if they were huge based so you're full of shit.

>>53018443
Bane Knights seem pretty good to me already. They're like cheaper Dawnguard Sentinels but they dodge anything that only works on living models, and have a better version of pathfinder.

>>53018461
Moshar is literally one of the shittiest casters in the game. Possibly THE shittiest.

>>53018198
You forgot your anime reaction pic Cryx shitter

>>53007370

Ossyan2, fed up with this Goreshade did nothing wrong bullshit.

>>53007370
>mercs
>casters
What's next, Skorne theme forces?

>>53018765
>Fury 9 in a faction with no real way to manage fury
Heh, nice try kid.

>>53018863
Well shifting stones are a thing. I think a huge reason for how unpopular Mohsar is is that he's hard to play well.

>>53018850
Nah they're third quarter this year.

>>53018891
Exactly. It's easier to jam Warmwood into your pairing than it is to use Mohsar well.

>>53018765
You need to learn to play the game son.

>>53019630
But that's for tryhard tourneyfag waac autists.

Did I get all the buzzwords right?

What would you change to revive this dead game?

>>53020478
Its not particularly dead, and what caused major damage was not a lack of CID on the product before release and bungled up release.

Its not dead, and slowly recovering, PP just made the release of MK3 as shit as possible.

>>53020478
More CID cycles similar to the Bane or Grymkin or Battle Engine ones, less CID cycles similar to the SR17 one. This is honestly the best tool they ever had to fix the game, they just need to leverage it right.

>>53017532
>The AOE can be targeted and charged as if it were a huge-based model.

?

>>53020478
Let it die.

>>53017532
>MOHSAR. SHITTY MOHSAR

Mohsar is good tho. You're just shit at the game.

>So this faggot ran around with indestructible pillars on demand.

Uh, no. Mohsar's Pillars of Salt, even under the current rulings, are not indestructible. Anything that deals damage to things under a template can kill them. Anything with the Sniper rule can kill them. There are a whole bunch of abilities and interactions that don't specify models and therefore can take them out.

If you weren't total dogshit at Warmahordes, you'd know this.

The Storm Strider is some the most schizophrenic design I've seen since like mk2 ferox. It wants to aim every turn and be an immobile gun turret to even be halfway effective for its points, but then also wants to be super far up the board to provide a RAT buff for its teammates, whilst having effectively zero melee presence and even with the health buff still seeming to be made out of tissue paper.

It needs a better way to produce power tokens and to hold more of them, so as to not come off as just a worse sacral vault. It at least needs reposition to hobble up the board of their deadset on it being immobile due to aiming every turn. It also should have a better melee presence like trample or pow15 or something.

>>53021365

The need to stage models was always a thing, anon. Unless it wasn't for Cygnar. In which case, oh well, you gotta stage that thing. Make sure it can survive it, give it an infantry screen or something.

It might be my lizard-brain making significant patterns where there are none (there are only six scenarios to pick from after all), but did everybody on the CID just up and decide to playtest "Spread the Net" last night for some reason?

>>53021001
cool meme bro

>>53021528

>4 of the matches on page one are Skorne STN

They probably brewed something up on facebook.

>>53018443
>Coven
>wasn't considered a good warcaster in mk2
>nerfed for mk3
>still considered the second best Cryx warcaster

>>53003678
>screenshotting your own posts
No one cares what you think, fuck off.

>>53022494

I think it's that they were complicated, and didn't play like anything else. That isn't a small thing, you have to *learn* this shit.

>>53017532
Where did you hear this is what happened? because the spell explicitly states you can attack them

>>53022534
Wut. Why would I make fun of a post I made?

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>>53022656

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>>53017532
>Pillars of Salt weren't models, and from that, realized models couldn't resolve attacks against Pillars of Salt because the rules explicitly state you can only attack models.
>The AOE can be targeted and charged as if it were a huge-based model.
????

>>53017532
Post proof, faggot.

The spell description states that the pillars are treated as models for the purpose of targeting and charging. Meaning the can be targeted with an attack and damaged.

>>53022943

Well, we wouldn't scream "Read the fucking card!" if it didn't need to be screamed at least one time, somewhere.

>>53017759
I love the fact that Lorna horses exists. It's like a quarantined aquarium holding all the worst members of the old forums. The circlejerking is so powerful on lorma that you could power NYC indefinitely. Once in a while I can go look through the glass at all the freaks, and sometimes one escapes onto /tg/, but it's all good. They quickly get asshurt here and slime their way back to their safe space to rant against balance changes and battle heels (both of which they're too fat to understand).

And one more thing, what the fuck does Lormahordes even mean? You took a shittu abbreviation and further bastardized it with what, the word lore? Time to stop coming up with ideas, guys.

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>>52989766

Meat Thresher
> PC: 19->16
> Boxes: 24->36
> Gains Exhust Fumes, when it moves, FF models w/in 3" gain concealment.
> Gains Turn up the Heat, At the start of activation can gain +2 SPD, suffers d3 damage at end of activation.
> Hailer POW 12->13
> RoF 2d3->d3+1
> Gains Volume Fire (+1 attack/damage v. medium base, +2 v. Large/Huge)

TFW Minions have the best Battle Engine in the game.
If I want to play 2 of them, where do I start?
I'd guess I want to get my anti-Jack ARM cracking from everywhere else in my list, so Slaughterhousers, War Hogs and Primal.
Can Arkadius work when he's give up 32pts of Battlegroup?

>>53023420
I dunno. I think it's way more accepting of change and balance than the old forums where.

>>53023420
>Being this assmad about the smallest things.

>>53017532
You're completely full of shit. There is no Infernal ruling to this effect, Mohsar's Pillars are explicitly targetable (it says so on his card), and Mohsar won kingdomcon because D&C locked him into the finals and his opponent failed an assassination run and got counterpunched. Nothing about your premise here is true.

>>53023577
...that's a pretty serious amount of fucking buffs from the folks who thought that shit was good to go like a year ago.

>>53023841
PP has never known how to measure twice and cut once. Instead they do the opposite.

>>53023602
It could be, but each time I scroll through to see who's posting, it's the same serial shitposters from the old forums. Some of them got banned, and I thought I'd seen the end of their reign of stupidity.

Reddit is just as bad, with fuckoffs like Kriespiele around. He made himself admin of the Khador subreddit in an autistically mighty attempt to split the community into individual faction forums. As if Khador didn't already have enough faggots interested in it, he actively spams ads to his shitty little kingdom.

>>53023602
Forgot to mention example of lormahodes autism and rejecting change:

Khador faction forum had an extremely old, long, shitty off-topic thread about "creepy card players with foot fetishes," that had long overstayed it's welcome, yet the same 4-5 retards kept it on life support via daily updates about their dialysis treatment. This thread has been resurrected at lormahordes, despite being an unofficial forum where it would be much easier to create off-topic posts.

>>53023890
Well that sucks.

But I haven't really experienced the rabid adoration for PP like I knew of in the MKII Days.

"No Warjacks are great as they are now! We will figure out how to make them awesome one of these days!!!!!"

I think by Fucking up communications PP revealed how fallible they actually are (Like I knew they where), with that much of the Rabid Factor popped, and whilst you're not going to experience the abrasive language of the chans on Loremahordes, you can get plenty of back and fourth critique....

Not saying its all gone, Im saying its better.

>>53023956
I dunno, not sure what exactly is the problem with that. Kinda spergy, but keeps itself isolated.

>>53024042
>"No Warjacks are great as they are now! We will figure out how to make them awesome one of these days!!!!!"

I don't think I have ever seen a non-Hordes player with this opinion.

>>53024058
It's like knowing North Korea exists. Won't do much to affect you directly, but still bothers you on some level.

>>53024173
>Basilisk Korea

>>53024165
Then you haven't been on the MKII Warmachine Forum.

>>53023833
Man how do you fail to kill mohsar? that mawfucka breaks his hip everytime he sands of fate someplace

>>53024897
The
>Strongest
>Omnipotent
of the Circle Orboros

>>53024897
Here's how, from the man who made the run himself.
http://lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/1033/run-masters-kc

The relevant part:

"Then I saw an assassination run. Throw a bloodwitch at mohsar, shoot him with one good demolisher gun and a broken one, then charge with a battle lusted kayazy, then bounce another eliminator off a warpwolf. It was optimistic and I ran it anyway... came up two hits short after bricking an eliminators initial attack so it couldnt side step. Bottom line I needed one more hit I didn't even have in the plan. He had like 3 witches left alive at this point, so he of course doppler barked me and shot me to death as expected at that point."

>>53025023
That's some tough luck.

>>53025441
Yes it is. My point is, >>53017532 is completely baseless in his assertions of what lead to Mohsar "winning" Kingdom Con, on multiple levels. There is no Infernal ruling as he claims, the Pillars are explicitly targetable as is noted on Mohsar's spell card, and Mohsar didn't get any free wins, because as the Irusk2 player noted in his Bat Rep "[the Circle player] was locked into Mohsar," meaning he hadn't dropped Mohsar all day. I was simply trying to clarify that none of the above was factual or accurate, and therefore cheapens his entire point of argument about how "toxic" competitive players are since he had to make up his example.

>Tournaments still forcing players to use both lists
LUL

>>53025658
Actually, the week 2 update for SR 2017 got rid of the 'must use each list once' thing, so it shouldn't be a problem anymore.

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Finished my new Amon. He can now finally awaken his masters.

>>53026134
Can't you just make the nipples a BIT more pronounced? For /tg/?

>>53023577
First you wait until it's through CID.

>>53023420
I also like that fact that it exists, because contrary to the old forums it belongs to the community. It is as good or bad as we make it. And I intend to make it as good as I can. So if you have a problem with it, change it. The moderation certainly is tolerant enough unless you're being a total asshat.

>>53024339
I should not have laughed at this.

>>53025658
Not around here they don't. Then again it feels like we're a year or two ahead in the "changes that just make too much sense for PP to implement" department, like ADR and Death Clock in SR.

>>53026134
That looks really great and really goofy at the same time.

>>53026481
Then my friend my mission is finished.
Also the best protectorate theme ever.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XUhVCoTsBaM

>>53027391
Fits Skorne more.

>>53027424
Huh. We even have the pseudo-vampirism. Now we need topless Xerxis, Hexeris and Naaresh (I guess "covered in knives" counts).

>>53025010
I hope that "Omnipotent" is a title. Otherwise what you said is retarded.

>>53027510
It's the highest rank in the Circle.

Which are the other ones by the way? I know one of them got killed in the whole Madrak mess, but there has to be a new one by now, rigt?

>>53027508
If your Pillarmen theme is extracing life force from others, then sadly Xerxis would need to be replaced by Rasheth. But like man, no one wants to see that.

>>53027424
>>53027508
Don't forget the living statues.
>AWAKEN, MY GUARDIANS

>>53027556
>Zaal3
>The ultimate life form

Ever since the introduction of character jacks, isn't Warmachine basically just Jojo?

>>53027583
Well it is for Kaya and Old Witch as they can summon it on demand.

>>53027583
Yes. Till the "next thing you will say, my caster is far enough away from an assasination." Also Durant is basically Josuke. I mean he can repair everything but himself.

>>53027532
Circle has three domains, each with an omnipotent.

Mohsar leads the eastern domain and is the most powerful
Lortus leads the southern domain and almost killed Kreuger
Dahlekov leads the northern domain and has done nothing of note

>>53027643
>And the next model you activate because of my feat will be...

>>53027658
I am happy to have known the feat while it still was that way. I am also happy that's in the past.

>>53027532
Ergonus got killed by Madrak. Lortus the Watcher replaced him. The other Omnipotent is Dahlekov the Scourging Wind.

>>53027652
>>53027677
Would be cool to see them in the game. A frost-themed Blackclad would be cool.

>>53027722
I hope Dahlekov would get a better frost-themed spell list than 4Shade then.

What I wouldn't give to replace Frost Field with Icy Grip, Mage Sight with Freezing Mist, and Hex Blast for Frost Hammer. Actually make him ice-themed. Reclaim would be a nice rule on him as well, while I'm wish-listing.

>>53027877
I see what they are trying to do with 4shade. He's a mix of Frost, Undead and Anti-Magic themes and I kinda like it.

>>53027722
>>53027877
The name "Scourging Wind" may imply a spell list that's basically equivalent to airbending from Avatar.

>>53027984
Flying kung-fu druid from the frozen north? Sounds cool.

>>53027946
Doesn't quite work well though. They needed to pick one and stick to it.

>>53028072
I'm not sure. He seems incredibly strong. His feat is merely okay, but his FM and spells are great.

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>>53028011
Hell yeah.

>>53028072
Personally I think he looks fine, thematically and mechanically.

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>>53028099
>read Freezer as "ends its advance" instead of "ends its activation" the first time
And here I was thinking that feat was pretty nuts.

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>>53028235
Just have to Cut Loose those Earthly Tethers man.

>>53028474
Yeah it's not his final form.

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Give me your Strakhov1 lists please.

My list is either awful or I'm a bad player or most likely both. I constantly struggle to get my overrun bullshit off.

Khador Army 75 points

(Strakhov 1) Kommander Oleg Strakhov [+28]
- Behemoth [25]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Juggernaut [12]
- Ruin [17]
- Torch [18]
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios [7]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Widowmaker Marksman [4]

Vanguard: 40 points

Alten Ashley [6]
Gobber Tinker [2]
Kell Bailoch [5]
Assault Kommandos (min) [10]
- Assault Kommando Flame Thrower (3) [6]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]

My most notable problems are the die rolls (missing 3/4 swings on 6s, like really?) but the actual damage dealing is a objective one. MAT 10 Ruin is nice and all, but three POW 13 attacks can't take out a heavy.

The list has a low model count, but can't deal enough damage to make up for that fact. Playing the piece trading game is basically impossible and I never seem to be able to get an assassination off due to terrain layout.

Please help me unfuck this shit. Should I go theme?

>>53028099
>>53028293
His problems are

>Medium base
>Revive not being able to attack
>No way to get free Revives via Spell Vortex/Souls/additional FOC
>no multiwounders/significantly strong cav units for targets of Revive outside of Spears of Scyrah
>Feat being only okay (if you want to make the most of it you have to disregard half - either spam jacks for Freezer or spam high def infantry for concealment)
>not really supporting a gunline/backlash caster (especially when ret has Kaelyssa and she does that way better)
>Ghost Walk when a large portion of the faction has Pathfinder (meaning you only want it for free strike immunity - but arguably Elara2 does that better via feat)
>no dmg fixer

His best abilities are FM: Arcane Vortex, Chiller and Hexblast. So realistically, you want to build him in a hard anti-spell denial list. Which isn't really a normal option you want for two list format - maybe in three list as a back pocket.

>>53027583
Is this a jojo reference?

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Before he passed away, my grandfather bought me this Necron Immortal. He was very dear to me and I'd like to keep using this model in his memory. Is there anything in Warmachine I could use it as?

>>53028976
nice meem

>>53015098
Everything on Caen is about to go to shit thanks to the ever-expanding influence of Dragonblight and no one seems to be taking responsibility for fixing it. Consequently, the Old Witch used some crazy lady as a spiritual conduit to snatch a group of Jungian archetypes known as the Defiers out of Urcaen and build herself a personal army. The Defiers are a quintet of legendary individuals who rejected Menoth the first time he came to Caen, so he cast them from the material plane to essentially burn in hell for all eternity. Their time in Urcaen has given the Defiers the ability to manifest and control entities composed from the nightmares and folklore of the Iron Kingdoms. The Old Witch hopes to use these creatures as a lesser of two evils in averting the total annihilation of life on Caen.

In gameplay terms, nothing can be said for certain because the faction hasn't been released yet. However, PP provided playtesting rules to the community to crowdsource the design process so we have a general idea of how they work. The faction hits hard and has powerful recursion abilities, but is relatively fragile and has piss-poor shooting. The most unique thing about the warlocks is that they don't use traditional feats, but instead have trump cards called Arcana - a trio of mini feats that can be triggered when certain preconditions are met. Each warlock has a unique "major" arcana that they must take, but they can select their two remaining "minor" arcana from a generic list before each game.

Also, the faction is on a limited release schedule in the same manner as the Convergence, so when they finally drop you shouldn't expect too many new additions for a while.

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>>53026134
>>53026150
Definitely needs darker nipples

(Makeda 1) Archdomina Makeda [+29]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Scarab Pack [10]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Legends of Halaak [8]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]

(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Mammoth [38]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Aptimus Marketh [5]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

I'm posting my Skorne pairing and you can't stop me :^)

Thoughts on Chiron? I was excited to see more basilisk stuff, but he feels a little underwhelming.

>>53030432
He's good. Once (if) we get theme forces he'll never see play though as Xekaar is garbage.

>>53030451
>Skorne
>Theme forces
For every 20 points of non-character Cyclops in your army...

>>53030477
Don't even joke about that!

Are you there ConflictAnon? It's me, Anon. I've got a bug to report: In Heavy Metal, Ace is not showing up as an option for Caine3.

>>53030551
Fixed, thanks for the report.

>>53030477
>>53030525

I could do forty points if the bonus was good enough. But a free Solo or UA isn't going to cut it. "A unit can AD/Ambush" might do, though.

>and I'll still want free points
>this would be a theme force, after all
>theme forces mean free points

>>53030451
That's my problem with him. He feels like MKII Despoiler, where he wasn't bad, but he was missing a big chunk without the bond. Maybe if we got something that'd make Basilisk spam workable, he'd see play without Xekaar.

>>53032765
Basilisk spam is workable. Just Chiron is of debatable value to it. Xerxis2's list is functionally still possible running it as you did in Mk2. Thing is, Chiron struggles to fit in due to cost - often you find yourself asking, is Chiron really worth two Drakes or a Drake and a Krea? If I wanted to limit myself by taking Chiron, why not just run Winds of Death instead and net Swift Hunter on all the Drake's so they can move after sprays? That's arguably as valuable as Chiron's Leadership and doesn't cut down on the amount of Drakes/Kreas.

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>>53015594
>>53014510

Just gonna draw attention to this, would still appreciate some advice.

>>53033428
Nice model. Awesome that it glows.

No further advice needed in my mind!

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While we're on the topic of nice paint jobs, look at this

>>53029725
Hooray someone saved a picture of my Amon!

>>53029725
Amon needs bright pink nips.

>>53034294
nay, dark brown nips are objectively best.

>>53028885
I agree with most of these points
except I really like destors.

>>53034475
Oh I like destors too. Doesn't make them good. And it doesn't make Gore4 support them well. Especially since the Destor Thane is now shit.

>>53034748
I dunno. Why not use all of the Buffalo?

People seem so intent on spamming 1 thing these days. And I can see some of it because it genuinely answers all questions, but why not do both?

Im not a Ret Player so I don't know, but why not all? High Defense (or Med Defense and High armor) Infantry, and some warjacks spaced out to punish attackers.

Hexblast is an excellent spell, revive for critical multi-HP units and Freezer for Warjacks again to punish those that attack it.

My Mat is "x" how good am I at fighting?
>>Mat 10

>>Mat 9
Butcher, Vilmon, Hakaar, Savio Montero Acosta

>>Mat 8
Venethrax, Gerlak Slaughterborn, Maxwell Finn, Laddermore, Strakhov, Fenris, Kovnik Markov, Yuri the Axe, Durst, Kreoss, Thyra, Gius and Cassian (Rhoven and Co.), Gravus, Rhadiem, Rhyas, Ashlynn, Vyros, Garryth, Issyen, Narn, The Child, Borka, Makeda, Morghoul, Bayal, Maximus, Wolf Lord Morraig, Lord of the Feast, Kromac, Xerxis, Legends of Halaak,

>>Mat 7
Terminus, Agathia, Aiakos, Goreshade, Skarre, Sturgis, Tartarus, Rengrave, Darragh, Withershadow Combine, Jakes, Stryker, Sturgis, Constance, Siege, Maddox, Runewood, Harlan Versh, Murdoch, Lord Carver, Drang, Malakov, Irusk, Karchev, Sorscha, Vlad, Kozlov, Great Bears, Kovnik Joe, Fyanna, Kallus, Kryssa, Saxon Orrik, Feora, Amon, Reznik, Nicia, Pyrrhus, Horthol, Hexeris, Naaresh, Zaadesh, Thagrosh, Farilor, Greygore Boomhowler, Elara, Ravyn, Thyron, Eiryss, Cylenna Raefyll, Spears of Scyrah, Aelyth Vyr, Nayl, Blackfrost Shard, Barnabas, Death Wolves, Grayle, Baldur, Axis, The Heretic, Grissel, Horgle, Madrak, Sons of Bragg, Brun Cragback, Gudrun, Bartolo Montador, Damiano, Shae, Ossrum, Gorten, Magnus, Sam Machorne, Croe, Mar and Morland (Devil's Shadow), Bradigan, First Mate Hawk, Rutger Shaw, Stannis Brocker,

>>53035324
Because:
>Destors aren't very good
>Destor Thanes are crap
>Revive isn't really a good spell, even if you have a ton of focus and a good target (Haley3 and Storm Lances)

Realistically, you should basically only be using revive on Spears of Scyrah with attached Eiryss3. Its the cheapest way to bring her, and allows you to get usage out of their Shield Guard if you want as well as giving you a Spd 7, Mat 7, Pow 11, Blessed, Magical, Weapon Master.

But that shouldn't really be a plan. And the feat isn't strong enough to be worth considering a pivotal part of your battle plan. Maybe reviving a Dawnguard sentinel in cases where you want to have the opportunity to free strike.

You would be much better basing a plan on using Hex Blast and the FM: Arcane Vortex to play a hard anti-caster bend list. Toss in some Void Tracers and maybe Soulless Escorts and you can bring a skew effectively immune to magic. It won't be a good list, and possibly played better with other casters, but as a third it might be able to drop into some lists and fuck with them if they skewed to rely on Magic Ability.

>>53034035
Beautiful paintjob on an ugly ass model.

>>53035406
To be honest, this tends to be an abstraction.

There are a whole bunch of warcasters who are fluffed as incredible duelists, but are MAT 7 for balance purposes.

>>53035406

>>Mat 7
I am a highly skilled warrior.

>>Mat 8
I live and breath battle.

>>Mat 9
I am a living legend.

>>Mat 10
I have ascended to godhood.

>>53035406
>Thyron

Wait a minute, isn't this guy meant to be one of the best swordsmen on Immoren? Why's he Mat 7?

>>53037903
Your weapon also has an effect on the in model stuff.

A MOW has like Mat 8 outside the armor.

>>53038157
Storm Rager tax.

PP tends to overestimate how powerful that spell makes warcasters and nerf their base stats as a result.

>>53036962
Man, what?

Brickhouse is one of the better looking Cygnaran warjacks.

>>53038758
>This caster could give itself +2MAT?
>Better drop its base MAT by 1!

>>53038820
Yeah, it's pretty dumb.

Thyron could have a base MAT of 10 and people still wouldn't run him.

>>53038883
No that's a pretty basic design Philosophy. A Base ARM, versus a Unit with Iron Wall Vs Shield Wall.

Thyron may be crap, but things are balanced around how situational their buffs are.

>>53039314
It feels as though it's been misapplied in cases like this though.

Sometimes you want a high stat that gets even higher when [x] is applied. Casters like Thyron and Grayle should be good at base and incredible when under the effect of their buffs, not mediocre are base and good under buffs. The intention when designing these characters was to make them nasty combat monsters, and their spell lists aren't great, so let them be nasty combat monsters.

Casters who suffer from the Storm Rager tax often miss out on having great spell lists/good focus, but also don't have great base stats either. Most of these guys aren't even as deadly as Butcher when fully buffed.

>>53039840
Mat 7 isn't mediocre. It IS Elite.

What you want and what makes sense in faction are two different things.

>>53040417
It doesn't make sense for these warnouns to be good at what they're supposed to be good at?

That's what I'm proposing here. If you're going to give a warnoun mediocre or poor ability to cast spells because you want them to be a beast in combat, then actually make them beasts in combat.

Don't just leave them wallowing in mediocrity because you can't quite decide on a direction for them. The problem warnouns like Grayle have is that their spellcasting isn't good enough to be worth running, and because of the Storm Rager tax, their combat stats aren't good enough to make up for this. They're not effective as they are, they need to change.

>>53040573
Sure. Feel free to trade Storm Rager for Mat8 then. I can assure you that's a terrible trade.

>>53040639
Why is it even necessary to trade?

There's already a warcaster who can buff themselves up to MAT 10 and has a better spell list than any of the Storm Rager casters. There's no reason to have the tax.

It's a retarded design decision that makes the warnouns subject to it not quite good enough at anything to be relevant.

>>53040738
Which one is that? Do you mean one of the Engine of Destruction casters?

>>53040835
Probably talking about Vlad.

He's the only guy I can think of which can hit Mat10.

>>53040639
Honestly, for Thyron, it might not be a bad trade, assuming he gets the Strength/Arm bonus as well. Cause having a cost 3 upkeep on a Foc 6 caster leaves you with no real ability to cycle it. Especially when you lack options like Spell Slave. Another spell actually gives him a chance at being useful. And allows him to keep Onslaught on.

>>53040945
This. Thyron needs to either be FOC 7 like Vlad or he needs to drop Storm Rager and just have those stats on his profile.

>>53038768
People rip on Brickhouse all the time because of his studio pose. It is legit one of the better looking jacks in faction.

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Are Widowmakers a newbie trap? My friend who is starting Khador is getting some as one of the first things after the battle box. I kinda feel like that's not a great idea.

>>53041377
No. They are a classic great thing.

>>53040997
Vlad also can't UPKEEP Blood of kings you moron.

If he wants to be as powerful as he can be under the spell, he actually gets way fewer attacks, and can't cast it on other targets except himself.

I mean complain about poor design but this just shows me you want to have your cake, eat it too, and then have your insurance pay for it.

Can you charge with countercharge if your movement isn't enough to move you 3 inches or at all, for example if the enemy model charged you and moved into base contact?

>>53041519
Yes, you just don't get the bonus die.

>>53041465
Practically speaking, Thyron will never have Storm Rager already being upkept on himself when he wants to do something with it, as keeping it on means you can't use Onslaught.

Vlad and Thyron can both expect to get four attacks on the turn they choose to tear shit up with their respective buffs, as while Vlad's spell costs more, he has more attacks. Vlad is better at supporting his troops AND better at fighting in melee, and it's not even a contest.

You have to be very dim to even suggest that Thyron is on the same tier as Vlad1. Vlad brings incredible buffs and mobility to his army when supporting, and absolutely ridiculous killing power with he turns on Blood of Kings. Thyron is ultimately pretty mediocre at both, because the way his spells are set up, his genuinely inferior statline, and his lack of Focus stop him from really doing any one thing every well or smoothly transitioning from one playstyle to the other. There is a reason you see a lot of Vlad1 and no Thyron.

>>53041573
ok, thanks

>>53041377
They are single handedly responsible for Retribution, Cygnar and Troll players worldwide being tilted beyond belief.

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>>53041819
Trolls are obvious because lmaonotough, but why Cygnar and Ret?
Is it because they don't care about armor bonuses?

>>53041874
Cygnar and Ret have a lot of powerful, single-wound infantry that tend to soak up a lot of their points. Often they're low DEF but relatively durable, too, which means nothing to Widowmakers.

>>53041874

They are in their way a better bandage for what should be the vulnerabilities of warjack spam to the shade of infantry-machine than actually taking screening infantry. Aggressively costed. Spam 'jacks, pay for widowmakers with leftover points, done.

was just poking around on battle college, and I came across the heretic's stats.

...what the fuck? surely these won't be his actual rules on release, will they? he seems like one of the most broken warlocks in mkiii.

>solid statblock with zero duds
>auto-hitting melee weapon with dispel
>immunity to magic
>immunity to knockdown
>can recast any of his opponent's spells
>has fury, rebuke, hex blast, etc
>can tailor his arcana to fill in any gaps

the dude seems like he has no particular weaknesses, he's just above-average to great pretty much across the board.

>>53024897
Mohsar's squishy for a warlock, but he's still a warlock. A lot of solid assassination runs can EASILY come up short if he's camping a few and/or dice fail you. I've seen dedicated killers like eCaine and Molik come up short against "squishy" warlocks because they picked the right attacks to transfer and had a little luck on their side. How long have you been playing this game?

>>53041519
>moved into base contact?

You can countercharge if you won't move far enough to get the boosted damage roll, but you can't countercharge if engaged.

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>>53042188
>Hey guize how do I deal with this heretic? :P

Well gee nigga, I don't know.

>>53041519
>>53041573
>>53041605
Keep in mind that you cannot Countercharge while you are engaged, so if they moved into base contact you probably were.

>>53042283
snarky dick comments after failing to understand a joke. You're def. a warmachine player

>>53041874
Dawnguard and Stormblades (besides the cavalry) really hate them.

>>53041956
>>53042120
>>53042790
Okay, I just thought they might not be a good idea with the meta being so jack heavy

>>53042844
Four Widowmakers and a Marksman can snipe a Cortex over the course of two turns.

That's not irrelevant.

>>53041573
>>53041605
You can't actually countercharge if they bump into/engage you anon - it explicitly says you can countercharge only once/round and not while engaged

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>>53042616
*swings chain casually*

Yare yare daze~

>>53041377
Widowmakers are great. There's a reason you can only take one unit and they cost 2pts per guy.

>>53042188
How else to get people to buy deep into spooky pumpkin men?

>>53040639
I can think of worse trades considering Thyron has to burn half his focus just getting Storm Rager onto himself. I'd rather he actually get a worthwhile kit instead of having his stats and abilities held back by an expensive spell that turns him into a marginally above-average combat solo.

>>53042188
Sure, but he's super reliant on his arcana to defend his(incredibly easy to kill) army and his trump is the easiest of the five to directly counter.

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How does my Jakes2 list look, is there anything I could drop to try and fit Finn in? Or is he even worth it?

>>53014510
Kreoss 1 is easy you just don't have the stuff for him.

Pop and Drop
You use his feat to knock everything down hopefully the enemy caster
Then you shoot the shit out of the caster. If you can't do that Shoot the shit out of the army you just knocked over.

>>53045024
Finn's a blender with Jakes2, and I'd consider Sword Knights if you're gonna use that many jacks

>>53045222
This.

Kreoss is a rock hard counter for certain opponents. Essentially, if they haven't tech'd specifically to guard their warcaster from knockdown, or can't really afford to keep them more than 14" away from Kreoss at all times, you've won.

>>53046591
Or their caster is immune to fire, most of the time. Or has stealth unless your brought Rhoven and Co. (obviously you should, but some people don't) to hand out Eyeless Sight to your Reckoner.

>>53046457
>Premeasuring/proxy rules got worse
This, more than anything else, annoys me.

>>53046900
I can't believe they haven't scrapped this token rule bullshit yet. Premeasuring is healthy for the game.

>>53046457
It's getting worse the more they change and the more I play it

>>53046900
The *rules* got better, the restrictions got stricter.

I'd rather play under these rules than last week's because it actually defines what you can and can't do; last week's were unplayably vague.

The Dev Talk thread about upping it to 2 markers gives me hope they'll cave a bit on it. 2 markers is pretty playable.

>>53047082
Proxymachine is the worst thing that ever happened to the game. Dumb motherfuckers reliance on a billion proxies has made so many games just miserable in the last five months.

>>53046457
Only three objectives left. How long until Objectives are just flags that can be destroyed and provide no special abilities?

>>53047191
Is that such a bad thing? I kinda like the current batch, honestly.

>>53047191
Not soon enough. Fuck objectives.

>>53047218
Not at all, I'd be completely fine with objectives having no abilities and just being flags that can be destroyed for 1.

>>53046900
There is currently a Dev Talk asking for examples where 2 proxies at one time is needed for precise measurement rather than 1 proxy. There were about 7 unique examples given in the first 5 minutes. I think the number is going to get upped to 2, if not 3, by the end of it.

>>53047191
Like they used to be?

>>53047449
Honestly, "Two, place a third and immediately remove one" fixes over 95% of my concerns with the rule.

>>53046457
What's a Black Ogrun Buccaneer Exclusive?

Hey guys, how does Dispel interact with Parasite and similar spells?

Can you hit the caster and make it go away or do you have to hit the model/s it's cast on?

>>53047509
It's the final Pressganger model. A sort of going away present from the head honchos of PP.

>>53047509
It was the going away present to the Press Gang when they shut it down earlier this year.

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>>53047509
This guy.

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Proxied this today.

The Shyeel Arcanists really are god tier, almost certainly the best things to come out of Retadan. They left Vyros free to do pretty much whatever he wanted, and worked great with his feat. With the Assassins there to provide situational flank bonuses and do some damage at the same time, each 'jack being reliably fully fueled let them pretty much munch through anything.

I may actually try the list with Imperatus switched out for a Banshee. With the amount of focus flowing around and the additional damage/accuracy from the feat, it might be better for the slam jam gun.

New Battle Engine / theme forces CID is up now too

>>53048443
What's changed?

>>53044816
I don't buy it. As it stands after the final CID, Grymkin have plenty of options within their fairly limited selection for models with good resilience and/or recursion - especially if you take a death knell. Throw in some of the more defensive arcana like shroud or sacrifice and you're good to go.

And I don't see how his special trump is easily countered, either. It's basically just a free calamity that can potentially spawn more free calamities. Nothing too special, but straightforward and effective nevertheless.

Grymkin have an internal balance problem. Some of the warlocks (like the heretic) and arcana (like sacrifice) are just blatantly superior to other options.

>>53048572
The Gun Carriage is not only still boring but now shit as anything other than (appropriatly) a lump of metal that sits in a zone.

>>53049101
Explains why my friend didn't like the new cid. He's been running Butcher3 with double Carriage, Uhlans, Ruin, and double Kodiaks as his main list.

Need a new thread here

>>53048572
Will post changes in the new thread when it gets made

>>53049304
on it

>>53049383
>>53049383
Go
>>53049380
Too late

>>53049397
Im ruined
>>53049404