MTG: Legacy General

>>52985079
So the plan is to splash green for library to replace top right?
What about mirri's guile?

Hey guys looking to get into legacy from modern. What do you think of my list.

Creatures (7)

4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Gurmag Angler
Spells (34)

3 Stifle
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Fatal Push
4 Ponder
3 Smuggler's Copter
4 Bitterblossom
4 Daze
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
Lands (19)

1 Swamp
3 Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Flusterstorm
2 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Standstill
1 Engineered Plague
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Leyline of the Void

>>52985312
It seems pretty good, but 4x bitterblossum seems like too many, maybe another copter?

I know doomsday got butchered, but I happen to own big amount of its cards so im gonna try to play legacy with a budget version of it.

Is there a good pile that doesnt include LED?
My current doomsday pile wins with labman but it can only work at turn 3 at earliest and it requires me to be able to play a land.

Current pile
Ideas
Lake of the dead
Lab maniac
Chromatic star
Street wraith

inb4
>legacy
>budget
>your pile sucks lmao

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>>52987507
i'm a fan

>>52987507
Any pile without LED is going to be significantly worse than one with LED.

>>52987735

Why is this a meme

>>52988154
put is there a one that works the same turn as doomsday or anything that improves the one i posted?

>>52985312
My first impression is that stifle isn't really what you want to be doing. You don't beat down as fast as delver decks, and the whole thing with rug delver/stifle bug delver is that you play a threat turn 1 and then you have stifle up for the rest of the game. Your cards like bitterblossom, smuggler's copter, and thoughtseize make you want to tap mana on your own turn. It might be fine, I don't know, but I think you would rather have something like another threat. You don't necessarily end the game that quickly unless you have a copter or a gurmag, and I think 4 bitterblossoms is too many, so I might up the copter count to 4 and maybe add another gurmag, perhaps a true-name or if you wanted to go deep in the spice you could add dark confidants. I also understand if this isn't what you're going for, but I also feel that deathrite shaman would go well here. It would let you play a 2-mana threat on turn 2 AND hold up stifle/push/whatever, it also gives you something to do if you leave mana up and they do nothing. Finally, if you are dead set of bitterblossoms, cabal therapy is a very powerful card, and you should definitely have a few in your sideboard at least.

>>52987735
damn thats fucking gay

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>>52987735
In everyone's defense it is relatively homosexual

>>52987507
Without LED you're probably better off playing something along the lines of Sacland Doomsday. LED is integral to many piles in anything like the past versions of the deck. You could try playing something like my BUG Explorer Doomsday that I've been running, and play more Culling the Weaks and Rain of Filths to jack your mana production way up and maybe nott need LED, but I don't know. LED is pretty important.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bug-explorer-doomsday/

>>52991002
Oh man Doom Fit? This I've got to try

>>52991138
I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I was playing a Grixis DDFT with Tops replaced with Preordain and Chromatic Spheres and it goldfished well but felt gimped against real opponents. I went back to the drawing board and decided the reason DDFT was worth playing originally was because of its ability to grind through hate. So I focused on that and ended up with the Vet/Therapy package to function as mini rituals + disruption. It has some clumsy draws but it can still win fast and can do some very powerful things because it makes so much mana. And the mere presence of Vet changes how people play, because they don't want to give you free mana. So its a little weird but testing has been encouraging enough that I'm probably going to take it to a small local tournament next weekend and I'll decide then if it's time to say goodbye.

>>52991328
I do hope the deck can live on in some form; it's hilarious. I can only imagine the faces of people opposite you that don't know what's coming

>>52991328
Keep us updated, you made me want to buy into DDFT and if the Vet version is good I'll consider picking it up.

>>52985312
A karakas wouldnt go amiss if you can afford another colourless land. Lets you win long games by cliqueing every turn and sometimes you just get paired up againts sneak and show

>>52985142
this sounds like it would be shit

>>52985079
Why do people still play goblins? Is like the worst deck in legacy

>>52994463
because GIBBLEGOOPS xddd

>>52994463
Goblins will be great again, now that it's best match up is gone>>52994463

So is there any need for the Abrupt Decays in Storm anymore or does the deck just drop the green entirely?

>>52995278
This is more autistic then anyone playing Goblins. Kill yourself.

>>52996971
well chalice is still a bitch. It's pretty low opportunity cost to run decays I feel, plus they are so flexible since they hit other random hosers too. You could try out something like echoing truth in that slot I suppose but my guess is that the games you lose by not having decay are more frequent than the ones you lose by have green sources instead of basics/fetches

>>52997010
Shattering Spree takes care of Chalice and cutting the bayou lessens your losses to Wasteland. I guess Decay does hit Thalia too but usually im trying to win under a Thalia or Massacre it. I dont know I only ever brought in Decay against Miracles and the decks dead now.

>>52997033
well if you are running shattering spree then you need more red sources anyway since you need to replicate at least once to hit a chalice on 1, right? Plus its a sorcery so you can't eot shattering spree then untap and kill. I could definitely see switching to more specific sideboard answers like massacre, dread of night, etc but I found myself boarding in abrupt decays a lot actually, even a couple against delver decks since it could slow the clock or they might have random shit like grafdigger's cage.

>>52994463
any deck that can pull a turn one blood moon out of it's ass is a real deck. Even if it means then beating down with a meandering towershell for lethal

>>52997112
I suppose so, will just have to wait and see how the deck changes

Pump and bump

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Post deck. Playing a linear UR delver this weekend. What are you guys testing?

>>52999426
Im still doing cockatrice with some friends to determine what I can build since I lost two decks. Im looking at lands and punishing jund right now. I am leaning towards lands since we already have a jund guy and delver is surging here

>>52999426
No pics, but I'm testing a pretty generic Maverick build. Given the sudden demise of Miracles I'm not sure if the meta will be very favorable though.

>>53002559
Any proficient burn players here? I would like to have a proper overview on sideboarding.

I was thinking about this:
3x faerie macabre
2x Pyrostatic pillar
4x Skullcrack
4x smash to smithereens
2x Exquisite firecraft (4 split mb and sb)

I was just wondering if I'm missing something? Do I need to have something against enchantments?

>>53002612
Good luck getting rid of enchantments in red.

>>53002666
It's always a possibility to run single taiga and Destructive revelry in sideboard. But yeah, I get you.

>>53002806
Chaos Warp if you're feeling lucky

>>52999426
I've been testing Grixis Delver with Stifle.
Stifle is such a hard card to use correctly, and there are a lot of corner cases where I'm not always sure how to best employ it. Normally just try and hit fetches.

There was a huge resurgence of Delver decks at my store after Miracles was banned, so I'm needing to change some things around.

>>53003397
Problem with grixis is that it's quite tight package and it's hard to cut space for stifle.

>>52988319

You don't need an LED to create a winning pass-the-turn pile with Labman, you can do
IU
Chromatic
Probe
Rain of Filth
LabMan

Assuming you draw and have 2U 1B 1X from lands, IU into your pile,
slam sphere,
filth all your lands,
chromatic one black mana into blue + draw the Man, and then probe for the win (or switch probe and chromatic so it can't be responded to, but you need an additional blue mana somehow)

Otherwise, there aren't really economical doomsday piles minus LED.
I'm sure DDFT guy can provide more insight but there are no decent ways to generate enough mana to cast your wincon on the spot for most purposes

After doomsday you can choose two paths to go off:
on the spot, or after passing the turn. The only functional difference being the mechanism to get the first card in your pile (you may have different reasons to want to go off on the spot depending on what you have found out about your opponent's hand turns prior). The main issue with this is, if you want to go off on the same turn as doomsday (which you may or may not have needed a dark ritual to cast), you need mana to play your top card and mana to cast all the cards in your pile.

>>52988319
>>53005351


It's the LED that gets you the mana to cast labman / wish + tendrils. In fact it's laughable how easy it is to goldfish a tendrils pile with LEDs; it's not intellectually stimulating, you just count to 10 or 11 (the fun is stretching to 12 or 14, of course).

Without the LED you would need to build a pile with rain of filth/dark ritual/some kind of free mana rocks, which means you need access to black. Cabal ritual is out because Doomsday hoses your graveyard. Trying to use manamorphose is a possibility (especially because it cantrips into your pile), but it doesn't generate any additional mana than what you already have, and restricts you to using red which you probably have one or two of max)

Perhaps the best non-LED route would be to set yourself up with a suspended lotus bloom, but that is a little variable.

>>53002612
I'd go more surgicals

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>>53005427
No. No need for surgicals. We're fine here. Everything is fine. How are you?

>>52999426
Some lists run Fireblast, have you tested it?
Float RR, sac 2 Volcanics to reduce damage and Fireblast Price sounds sweet.

>>53002612
-4 skullcrack
+2 ensnaring bridge
+1 macabre
+1 whatever
>>53005427
Faerie is better vs reanimator, basically the only relevant deck.

>>53005351
you don't need LED to go off, it's just by far the most efficient way to produce mana. Consider the most basic-ass storm pile:
[IU, LED, LED, Probe, Wish.]
This generates 7 Storm including Doomsday, so lets assume you also cast Ritual, an LED and a cantrip to draw into the pile. The total cost of this line is B +(U/2) depending on what cantrip you use. Now imagine if you didn't have LED. You'd need B for Rit, (U/2) for the cantrip, UU for ideas unbound. if the LEDs in the pile were replaced with Rituals, you'd need B for that, plus R for the wish, plus resources to pay for the probe in the pile. This makes the total cost for an LED less storm kill BBUU(u/2)(u/2)R. That's a minimum mana requirement of 5 mana and 4 life, instead of a minumum of 1 mana and 2 life, and to top it all off, it's only 9 storm total. Now Rain of Filth can also jack your mana production way up, but it requires you to be several turn into the game so it isn't conducive to fast wins. Sacland Doomsday tries to mitigate this mana issue by having lands that make extra mana, but it still doesn't approach the efficiency of LED. Lab maniac piles without LED are very expensive. The mana-cheapest piles without LED are shelldock/emrakul piles, but those have their own issues.

>>53007184
Obviously there are situations where you can go off without LED at a lower mana cost. If you have 2 rituals in hand, or if you have 2 cantrips. Having tendrils Main reduces the cost of piles but it also reduces storm count.

>>53003583
>Problem with grixis is that it's quite tight package and it's hard to cut space for stifle.

Agreed, it really is. It's hard to run all 4.
So my list is basically LewisCBR's

4 Deathrite
4 Delver
2 Gurmag
2 TNN
2 YP

What happens is you play 3 Stifle along with only 3 Git Probe. Rest of list is pretty stock with a spell pierce and a Murderous Cut as my flex slots.

FRESH SPICY MEME
4 Doomsday
4 Show and Tell
3 Dark Ritual
3 Lotus Petal
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Ideas Unbound
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Island
4 Omniscience
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Preordain
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Lion's Eye Diamond

>>53013032
The third stage of grief is bargaining.

>>53014770
I'd say this looks more like a depression deck to me.

>>52997682
That sounds like a fucking challenge, sir

>>52991727
karakas isnt colourless

>>53006786
Bridge? Really? Against what?

But maybe you are right, I will get rid off skullcrack and add more pyrostatic pillar, macabre and probably searing blood against DnT/Delver.

>>53016596
I'm going to guess its for sneak and show, which is one of burn's worst matchups

>>53016660
Ohhhhhsssshoooot. You are correct. I forgot about that completely. Although at that point it's quite losing battle if you are in a situation you are boarding in 2 bridge to try to win that. I rather keep consistency on burn-you-out-buddy.

>>53013032
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U48LbxgrI2I

Is this your youtube channel?

>>53018611
Yeah. Havent posted since the top ban. Been thinking I might soon though.

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i have no idea what i'm doing, who wants to help me make 21 cuts
can't find a nonblue decklist so decided to put something together myself. i've never played legacy

>>53015467
It sure is colourless, shitstain. Don't you know how colours work? Also, he's referring to the fact that none of the decks colours are provided with the land, effectively making it colourless.

>>53019020
Cute. I have no suggestions of worth, but please keep developing.

>>53019020
Move kolaghan and dromoka to the board. Drop kcommand, and probably pact. I'd cut manamorphose too, it makes your mulligans bad. Cut dark petition but add a wish, maybe 2. Cut mizzix masturbation at least 2 pif. You could probably cut a land too.

>>53019020
-1 mizzix's mastery
-4 cabal ritual
-4 k-command
-2 dragon storm
-4 desperate ritual
-4 pyretic ritual
-2 past in flames
-4 past of negation
-4 mana morpbose
+4 gitaxian probe
+4 cabal therapy

Then cut all the dragons and the last dragonstorm, slot empty the wardens and side tendrils of agony and cut seething song for and additional 2 each of burning wish and infernal tutor. Drop a few lands for some chrome mox and voila! Dragonstorm!

>>53016660
Sneak and Show and basically anything with Tarmogoyfs and generally just better board presence.
>>53016819
>Although at that point it's quite losing battle if you are in a situation you are boarding in 2 bridge to try to win that
No it's not, if you don't draw them you still have a chance of goldfishing faster if there's no Griselbrand, if you do and they SNT you cannot lose.

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>>53019467
>>53019524
>>53019402
well i goldfished this, here's some things i learned
>i try to storm at the wrong time and end up with 5 mana, no cards in hand and no board at all. have increased number of burning wish so i can fetch wincons
>no seriously how do i storm
>i only have the loosest ideas of my opposition/meta so this probably won't end well
>dromoka is trash as i can't cast her from hand.
>dark ritual, past in flames and burning wish are fucking great
>how the fuck do i use led i never have the tutor in hand and just shoot myself in the foot 9 times out of 10

>>53020152
>learn to count
>don't use LED unless you have the tutor
>dark petition is bad because it turns red mana into black.
>still too many dragons. Cut all dragons that aren't hellkites or karrthus.
>You don't need 3 pif main.
>you do need 4 rite of flame
Seriously, just count how much mana you'll be making and don't cracking LEDs unless it's in response to a tutor, or you can flashback pif profitably. How is that difficult?

>>53020152
>>i try to storm at the wrong time and end up with 5 mana, no cards in hand and no board at all. have increased number of burning wish so i can fetch wincons
The amount of mana you need to generate is much larger than a traditional storm deck. This pushes your critical turn out further than is acceptable in a fast paced format like this. Never try to go off unless you have a tutor in hand and be mindful of what tutor it is last you find yourself stuck with infernal tutor and a land.
>>no seriously how do i storm
Not with dragonstorm im sorry to say. Pick up ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrills, Google it) and test with that. It will teach you a lot about what makes a good storm deck. It has plenty of card draw and has a much lower threshold to go off.
>>i only have the loosest ideas of my opposition/meta so this probably won't end well
It never does when you're just starting out.
>>dromoka is trash as i can't cast her from hand.
Dragons, not even once.
>>dark ritual, past in flames and burning wish are fucking great
Now you're getting it.
>>how the fuck do i use led i never have the tutor in hand and just shoot myself in the foot 9 times out of 10
You need the infernal tutor in hand you silly billy. It goes like this:
>cast tutor
>HOLD PRUORITY (if you pass priority and your opponent does nothing, your spell resolves before you can crack LED)
>crack LED, dump hand
>tutor revolves with mana floating

>>53020379
I should mention the LED trick also works with burning wish though im sure you could figure that out. Just be aware that burning wish is a nonbo with past in flames.

>>53020357
>How is that difficult?
im dumb and have a relatively low familiarity with the cards.

>>53020379
>>53020413
>Pick up ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrills, Google it) and test with that. It will teach you a lot about what makes a good storm deck. It has plenty of card draw and has a much lower threshold to go off.
honestly i think that's the best bet. dragonstorm is a neat idea and all but it's subpar
i thought that needing a lower storm count (3~4 instead of ~10) would make this easier but the higher mana requirement is an intense barrier
>It has plenty of card draw
important. i'm also really missing out on brainstorm...

thanks for the spoonfeeding, i'm gonna go look into ant and see where that gets me

>>53019663
I get the bridges, but what I'm saying is, if you play against SnT who place omniscience on board you are probably better off with something like ashen rider. On the other hand, decks that play tarmogoyf or some other big middle game beaters, you are supposed to have won the game before they start hitting with them // having a burn spell instead of bridge gives you the optimal consistency.

I have to play some games to get the feel of deck so I can see what to think about bridges, but at the moment they seem a tad iffy.

the best zombie tokens?

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>>53023419
KILL ME OH GOD PLEASE KILL ME I CAN'T CONTROL MY LEGS I'M SORRY I DIDN'T MEAN TO HURT THEM MAKE IT STOP RUN I CAN'T FEEL MY BODY AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>52985312

Initial impressions:
—Cabal Therapy is busted with Bitterblossom. I'd definitely find some room for those.
—I don't think you need helicopters if you're running Ponders and Brainstorms, and a quad of Fatal Push doesn't feel necessary for the mainboard.
—Stifle might also be better in the sideboard, because you're not going to be getting under people with 2-cmc creatures and the Bitterblossom.
—I think you should run either zero Gurmags/Dismembers or 2+. Feels like they won't do a whole lot as singletons, but adding extras could overcome the problem of not having answers to large dudes. You might try switching them out for another Clique and/or Therapies.
—Aether Vial is great, but you're not running any one-drop creatures to power out with it. Just food for thought.

>>53024152
There aren't any aether vials in that list, and if you are suggesting he add some, why the fuck would a 7 creature deck want vials. Especially with gurmag anglers.

>>53023991
everyone uses those in dredge for some reason

>>53025432
Dredge is a pretty psychedelic deck. Those are the most psychedelic zombies.

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>>53023419

I prefer the M10/11 prints. The Art looks nice when there's six of them on the battlefield.

>>53020511

memorize the net gain of mana instead of reading the cards and having to crunch numbers on the fly


ie:
Dark Rit = +2 Black
Cabal Rit = +1Black or +3Black
Rite of Flame = 1+(number of rite of flame in graveyard) Red
LED = +3 of something

Use a turn-down die to keep track of storm count

Don't be that guy who needs to stare at his hand for 10 minutes trying to figure out if he can go off

PS if you actually want to be good at this game you should legitimately revisit algebra, discrete math, and statistics

>sold out of magic to make a computer
>buying back into magic
>playing lich
I hate my life

Is there a way to Dragonstorm to dig up 4 copies of Kokusho the Evening Star and something else (4 kokusho, one "clone") in order for Legend Rule triggers to steal 20 life from your opponent without them being able to do anything about it as the kokushos go to the yard?

I guess you could hit 4 storm count and also throw in a Bogardan hellkite, but it would be nice to somehow combo with 5 of a card

Are there any dragons that enter the battlefield as a copy of a dragon?

>>53028415
(This would be a strictly worse bogardan dragonstorm combo like above, but wouldn't target / wouldn't require a combat phase to win the game)

>>53013032
yikes.

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>>53023419
I liked this one when playing Dredge. Looks like it's dancing

>>53022864
>better off with something like ashen rider
You can't hardcast Ashen Rider and Bridges (can) come in more matchups than one.

Does anyone have any idea why Aluren lists in MTGO leagues aren't playing the White Recruiter? Is the Sultai/Leovold version really that much better?

Do you guys like the aspect of legacy that allows supplementary product to be used in the format?

Honestly I dislike it because of shit like leovold making it's way in

>>53029560

I don't like anything that makes people the monarch. It seems so gimmicky and out of place. Then again the only lists where I ever saw that fuckery was in D&T to help in the miracles matchup. Leovold is annoying and pushed as fuck but I don't mind it. I just wish he wasn't printed only for goodstuff decks.

>>53029560
Fuck tnn

>>53029749
Tnn loves you too, in a gay way

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tfw ddft posts on your general so it becomes legitimate

>>53030936
Fag

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>>53030936
fag

>>53028277
>Don't be that guy who needs to stare at his hand for 10 minutes trying to figure out if he can go off
;_;

>>52999426
>post deck
You're mocking me aren't you? I'm still holding back tears bro