Previous thread: >>52967103 >Pastebin: https://pa

Has anyone ever run an innocents game?

>>52975596
The antagonist of my next scenario is actually a human.
He will be a serial killer oblivious to the nature of the characters who will attack the characters around dawn and will have access to the command system of the underground complex into which the PCs will be locked.
This is why I'm going for the confidence rollercoaster, I will have my PCs expect to fight some supernatural creature and get their shit handled by a mere psychopathic human.

So I might go for a sorcerer or maybe a group of ghouls, but I'd rather find something that doesn't even look human, so that it's more impressive at first.

Also, I don't know if that helps, but the hook for the scenario is that they'll be looking for some old artifact or maybe some old piece of lore about assamites.

>>52975701
>Does anime mix well with the World of Darkness? Why or why not?
Thats really a bit to broad to engage with. Anime can look like pretty much anything, and what do you mean by mix with?

http://www.strawpoll.me/12861316

File: cofdwodg.jpg (98KB, 591x1017px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 591x1017px

>>52975701
Posted the wrong version, oops

>>52975701
Yes, just make Bastet into catgirls

repostan

>>52975530
Go for something that's a complete Schmuckbag but also has real bonafides.

I ran a game with a bunch of shovelheads and the primary antagonist was the Bishop's Templar. A revenant turned Serbian War Criminal turned Tzimisce and her flunkies based on these guys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwp7APBgCsI [Embed]

They were way better equipped and way more experienced but fewer in number.

>>52975600
Well, yes. Their characters can be good at a thing but not to the point where it's a virtual guarantee. I've had games where no one else can get in edge wise in a combat encounter because one player is just that good at optimization. oWoD makes it so that that character can be the main effort but he also may need backup on a bad day.

And this goes for more than just combat.

Is it technically rules legal to play a Ghoul, Wolfblooded, Proximi, Fae Touched, Sadikh, Stigmatic?

File: ScreamingEagle2.jpg (365KB, 960x855px) Image search: [Google]

365KB, 960x855px

>>52975701
It mixes okay if you aren't a faggot about it. Which is hard with anime. I'm probably failing. I making a freehold based on an entitlement based on having evolving animal companions like digimon. This is one of the court leaders. Faggotry? Probably. But I think the players will have fun.

>>52975701
>No title
you fucked up

>>52976086
Would you like fries with that?

Or perhaps a back massage?

>>52976117
I was about to point out that it would make things harder to find the the archive but let's face it, it's just going to be more bullshit power wanking in one direction or the other.

>>52976086
Who cares. The last thread needed to be ditched.

Just a second.

Archautismos aside, couldn't vamps just fight mages in city squares therefore fucking them up with paradox?

>vamp vs mage in front of public
>vamps runs up buildings, cloaks himself in shadow etc.
>mage tries to do the same
>blown up by paradox

Don't want to start shit just curious

Posting it in here just because the one anon that cared enough to ask may already have switched threads.

>>52976008
They were proposing a scenario where the mage knew about Caine, then that he got this curse and how it works in a way that would put the mage in danger, and that it was of divine origin, all kind of information that nobody would know in a not theoretical setting. Just because "Oh, my new Universal Force isn't going to kill all vampires"

When I was just saying that they may do that, but god would just retaliate, and also the paradox, because you altered the whole universe to achieve this. (EVERY arch mastery creates huge Paradox, it's written in Mastery of the Arts, you can take a look at it)
I DIDN'T SAY THAT:
>Caine would survive all of this
>Caine is on par with Arch Masters because of this, or at all

I just said that he's most probably not even bounded to disciplines usage anymore, so it's not as easy to generalize it's power by using them as a measure.
And that God cares enought about Caine to probably act, despite the Nameless One argument.

>>52975701
I suppose it would depend on the anime i guess, but has a blanket statement, no. Even the more WOD-like anime's (Hellsing for example) are poor inspiration.

>>52976184
Mages could still pull of subtle magic, which isn't anything to scoff at despite not being as flashy.

>>52976241
I'll ask again, why is it so unlikely for a Mage to know about Caine?

>>52976181
Hmm, ok. Let's see here.

1. There are plenty of ways for Mages to 'know' things without outside/inside information.
This has been fairly evident throughout the Dark Ages, and is still prevalent in Awakening with an actual Knowing Practice.

2. Forces 9 'Alter Universal Forces' is quite horrific in application. It is more than likely the single most powerful ability in the WoD setting. I would actually consider it an ability you just can't win against, whatsoever.
Just imagine the consequences of turning off gravity everywhere.

3. The Paradox garnered from the Arch-Spheres runs off ST fiat, nothing more. It's an annoyance, yes, but it doesn't run off the normal mechanics.
You still don't go 'poof dead n' gone' from having it railed against you. MotA was written to be usable, not a suicide mission of the highest order.
Still, you cannot prevent the accumulation of the Paradox, but with Prime 9 you can throw it around.

4. God retaliating is the common end statement for the 'Caine vs Archmage' argument. We also have no basis as to who would win such an encounter. God didn't challenge The Unnamed in Hell on Earth, but he did step down during Gehenna. Both are equally enormous in capability, but there's still no way to determine who'd win in a fight with God and an Archmage.
Mixing the Arch-Spheres is supposedly enough to supersede God as is. Prime 9 / Forces 9 being one such example. Ten dots is supposedly omnipotence according to certain passages.

5. Caine is very much bound to the Disciplines, but he isn't bound to their specific purviews. He can improvise, as is his power. It's a great advantage.


In all honesty, the question as to whether or not an Archmage can take Caine 1v1 is fairly evident in answer. The Archmage is going to win. The seven-fold curse is easily worked around or overpowered using Entropy 4, Life 4, Matter 4, Prime 6 as the Rote inquires.
The real debate is whether the Archmage could triumph over God, which is quite possible

>>52975741
No, but I'd like to. I think that's a good way to keep the horror personal, and also to stop your players from going Rambo.

>>52976450
>if a Mage would ever try something like the Vampire Killing Force, he would just come into the Sevenfold Curse.

Defending against an angry universe is like attacking the air you breath. Forces 9 is changing the Tellurian to exist as you want it to. This isn't an attack, it's the restructuring of Creation.

>>52976601
Why not just make a universal force of 'no seven-fold curse'. Forces 9 is enough to effectively mimic every other Sphere to a massive degree. The example given was the 'there are no more genders' force.

Forces 9 is batshit insane powerful.

>>52976627
>The example given was the 'there are no more genders' force
So what happens if an SJW archmage manages to reach nine dots in Forces?

Are we fucked?

>>52976601
Again, I didn't say that Caine would survive it, but the curse effect will for sure.

>>52976627
Again, The mage would need to know about all of that.

>>52976674
No one ever reaches dots that high, so dw about it.

>>52976514
>>52976463
>1
You didn't provide any actual examples.

Are you going to propose something like "A mage just comes in and read a vampire mind to find out" Well, it doesn't work like that for the simplest of reasons, he would need to search for that particular information, or having a Vampire obsessed about Caine as much as this thread fags make me appear to be. Again Theoretical.

>2
Again, I'm not saying that the skill isn't strong, I'm just saying that it doesn't come without consenguences, and that's by the book.

>3
Wouldn't only be natural for a ST to do a mirrored effect or something of the same magnitude of the spell casted? You can argue about the method, not the common logic. You may say that MotA was written to be played, but I would like to remind you that was also the case for Wraith, in pratice the AS aren't really playable without huge conseguences or without using it in your realm. Also the book didn't say that you can throw it around, but it says that messing with the paradox with prime would make it worse (that like the fourth time)

>4
I doubt so, even if every Arch Mage is so powerful, it still has but a fragment of what it's to be considered "God's Soul" just imagine its being in comparison to the multitude of humanity.
Also, Implying that a mage would be able to have two level 9 Spheres is quite Theoretical and unlikely.

>5
There is no real and conclusive source to that.

>>52976756
You are probably the most biased vampfag I have ever seen before.
You're arguing against theoretical notions by using theoretical assumptions.

How do you even exist?

>>52976803
Theoretically.

>>52976756
Mages being the individual shards of God isn't a canon statement, and borders on the mindset of Demon The Fallen.

You're doubting canon material and believing canon material all at once. This is causing me to heavily doubt your standing in this debate.

>>52976803
Also, my only assumption is about the ST application of Paradox, but there again, I said that would be common logic, in my opinion at least, you can say your opinion about what would you do, and so other anons can, so we can see who's right.

For the other facts I'm just using lore knowledge that you can check anytime.

File: 653ea09f117b952f0c363b794e933f99.jpg (74KB, 600x629px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 600x629px

Rolled 13 (1d20)

>>52976823
>>52976756
>>52976713
Rolling for how many dicks you suck.

File: 74154454545.jpg (9KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 480x360px

I like how there's only one person on the side of Caine here.

>mfw when a single vampfag is a worse instigator than a legion of magefags
Priceless

>>52976861
>>52976839

Also, I'm not doubting any canon, pelase double check my posts.

>>52976897
The Caine x Archmage debate is only ever brought up when a caine whore feels threatened.

The fact remains that Caine can't challenge the highest theoretical Archmage on account of just how far reaching the Archspheres are.

>>52976897
Rephrase
>a single vampfag causes butthurt to an entire legion of magefags

If they were more numerous they'd drown the magecucks in shitposts kek

File: vampirefags.jpg (34KB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 960x540px

>>52976897
It's just how it is.

Are archmages functionally a separate game from Mage?

>>52976936
>>52976181
I DIDN'T SAY THAT:
>Caine would survive all of this
>Caine is on par with Arch Masters because of this, or at all
I'm pretty sure that Magefags are really defensive for some obscure reason.

But whatever, I spent like 2 hours arguing about things I didn't even said, now it's time for me to continue to write my Mage short story, it's due tomorrow at midnight.

>>52976954
Kind of? It's much of the same sort of gameplay/themes just at scales and scopes well beyond any other gameline.

>>52976981
Do you even know what you're arguing at this point, dumbass?

>>52976981
Don't bother, magefags are incredibly disingenuous.

Godspeed anon

>>52976981
Listen. The seven-fold curse won't protect Caine. An Archmage will promptly know just how to deal with Caine, and his improvisation of the Disciplines won't spare him the humiliation.

I only posted twice and didn't bother with anything or anyone else previously.

Can I get a rundown please?

>>52977041
There is your reply anon.

>>52977041
Isn't it more that God babysits Caine, not that his particular curse or powers do shit? Archmage vs God is the real argument. Apparently Mage canon goes out of its way to de-power God, though, just so archmages beat it.

>>52977072
Thanks anon.

>>52977099
It only takes Prime 9 and Forces 9 to dethrone God and mold the Tellurian in your personal image. It would actually spawn a multiverse if we go by RAW. Scary stuff.

I should really make a fan-made Rote for it.

>>52977133
Only? Isn't even one Archmastery like, really rare? Having 2 of them at max isn't downright impossible?

>>52977157
Not impossible. A very hard thing to achieve, but not impossible.

Nine dots also isn't the max. One can only imagine just how powerful ten dots would be. Only one canon mage has achieved that.

File: The Unnamed.png (105KB, 341x522px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 341x522px

>>52977179
>Only one canon mage has achieved that

Al-Aswad The Unnamed

>>52977058
Quick rundown:
>archmages bow to Caine
>in contact with celestials
>rumored to posses undiscovered disciplines
>controls the world with an iron but fair fist
>owns castles and blood banks all over the world
>direct descendant of the first man
>will bankroll the first cities in the Umbra (Cainegrad will be the first city)
>owns basically every DNA editing facility on Earth
>first designer babies will be Caine babies
>said to have 400+ IQ
>own Nanobot R&D labs around the world
>you likely have Cainebots inside you right now
>nation states entrust their gold reserves to this guy. There is no Fort Knox, only Fort Caine
>He is 8000 years old, from the space-time reference of base humans
>In reality, he is a timeless being existing in all points of time and space from the big bang to the end of time

>>52977179
Wouldn't God have 10 in every sphere by that logic?

>>52977220
Did they really name their designated fanfic-level powerwank character Asswad? Was he a parody of munchkins/powergamers?

>>52977246
Wouldn't that just make God a mage? Wouldn't that just piss Caine whores even more?

Masters of the Art does suggest twice that a mage created the universe.... Hmmm....

>>52977220
Are we sure he is actually a separate entity from "God" in the first place?

>>52977269
Why would it piss of vampfags?

If it quacks like a duck and it walks like a duck, it's a duck.

>>52977291
If an extradimensional mage was responsible for Caine and the curse derived from him, you really don't think that would agitate Masquerade players?

Lilith possibly being an ancient Verbena already annoys some.

>>52977321
It would just be a classification, it wouldn't change what God is or anything.

>>52977220
There was a good bit left out, mechanically speaking. The Unnamed has a lot of special abilities and a lovecraftian battle form; a whirling storm of horrors.

The Unnamed is rolling 25+ dice on every spell, and can have 200 successes of combat spells up at once. He's got 10 dice to countermagic anything that targets him.
Along with his eldritch horror 'true form', which forces you to roll against a madness check; at 10 willpower you only have a 7% chance of NOT going batshit insane from just staring at him.

Infinite Quintessence is also ridiculous.

>>52977321
>>52977356
Yeah, a person with all of the powers, personality and historical acts of God is still just a description of God, not any change.

>>52977356
Yeah, but that would still make God a mage. People are going to be annoyed by that.

>>52977405
Or mages are just mini gods

>>52977405
The stereotypical God is already old, white and bearded. He might as well be a wizard.

I don't really give a shit about crunch interactions, because none of this archmage stuff will come up in any of my games anyway, but I've certainly learned to hate Mage through all of this shitposting.

>>52977220
>>52977384
Starting to see why magefags really believe their splat to be superior to the rest. These NPCs are no joke.

>>52977439
This started because of a Caine whore, not magefags.

Awakening fluff question. Are modern mages stronger or weaker than their ancient counterparts?

In modern times there should be an increased corpus of knowledge on the Arcana and increased networking between various regions. So I'd assume Mages have become stronger on average.

>>52977467
I really couldn't care less. Mages are ludicrously overpowered and devalue everything else in the universe by their mere existence. The splat, as a whole, shouldn't exist in any gameline other than its own.

>>52977445
Well they are kind of a joke. No one should ever want to play in an actual game with them. Mage adversaries are supposed to be Puzzle Combat, not All Doors Sealed Shut Have Fun

>>52977467
But the anon said until the end that he wasn't even rooting for Caine, aren't you exaggerating or making excuses for your shitposting?

>>52976897
I might as well use this opportunity to bring up a tangentially related question I had: Didn't some source book say that caine could in theory have disciplines beyond rank ten, and could in theory make up entirely new ones on the fly?

>>52977516
He was pretty much rooting for Caine.

Who's the most powerful antagonist with stats in awakening either normal or arch master?

>>52977534
Caine can't exceed ten dots, but he can slowly devise new Disciplines as a story hook.
It has to be thematically appropriate, however.

Try reading Gehenna.

>>52977482
The ancient Atlantean mages had no Paths and as such all of the Arcana were considered Ruling.
They were akin to mini-Archmages according to DaveB.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Archmages were ludicrously more powerful as well. Maybe they didn't need Quintessence or ritual work to use the Imperial Practices, who knows.

>>52977534
Even Caitiff can create new disciplines if they wanted to, or in general every vampire if he puts enough effort into it, Caine can just create them really easily while them being really powerful.

>>52977576
I probably should have clarified. I was thinking more in terms of after the fall. Like hellenistic greece or imperial china.

What's the highest level of arcana obtainable in the Harry Potter universe though? 2 dots-ish?

>>52977616
Harry Potter wizards are weak as shit compared to most fictional wizards. They don't even have contingency spells.

>>52977616
'Lumos' would be like Forces 5.

The problem is that the potter-verse wizards are hideously dogmatic/uncreative.

>>52977652
The thing is that rote magic in the Potterverse is vastly easier to learn than in the World of Darkness, so this isn't very surprising.

So if Caine can't beat an Archmage, what can?

Preferably no "another archmage" responses please.

>>52977701
another archmage

>>52977616
>>52977633
They're generally low-power but have pieces of high-power littered throughout too, like much of the magical items and artifacts. Whatever the process is that permanently grants motion, life and personality to photos and paintings setting-wide is kinda big magic. The things beneath the Ministry of Magic in #5 and the literal time travel device in #3 are way powerful and had to have been made by someone.

>>52977489
Yeah, but the previous thread was going perfectly fine until someone decided to preach about how Caine could stand against high-powered Archmages, which just isn't the case.

I know the proper response to such an argument is "I don't care, I'm above taking sides", but in this case the apparent Masquerade player ruined the peace, not the Ascension players.

>>52977800
The argument itself doesn't matter to me; it's just annoying shitposting. What matters is the facts it revealed about Mage itself, and they aren't flattering.

Going to ask again since the Cainefag neglected to answer me both times, why is it unlikely for a Mage to know about Caine?

>>52977701
A guy with a gun the arch mage doesn't know about

Ok. I'm going to be perfectly blunt here. Forgive me for poking into a corpse.

How does planetary equate to universal? This Caine vs Archmage schtick seems so fucking ridiculous as to be entirely nonsensical.
I'm speaking of common sense here. It makes absolutely no sense, no way no how, to assume that a planetary threat, AKA Caine, could somehow combat/challenge a being capable of busting entire galaxies, AKA the Archmages and their evolved brethren.

I know baitposting is a common occurrence in these threads, but you can't be THAT unrealistic about things, right?

>>52977839
The Cainefag bailed.

>>52977876
Why is caine planetary?

>>52977839
>>52976450
>>52976756

>>52977876
Vampfaggots don't run on logic.

They run on evangelical bias.

>>52977946
Have any vampires ever demonstrated anything above that?

>>52977876
>>52976981
I wonder if people even read what I wrote, at least pretend to read before screaming about the cainefag boogeyman.

Now, if you excuse me.

>>52977978
You wrote nonsense.

Honestly hate vampfags more than magefags at this point. It only took one to ruin an entire thread and now this one.

Thanks a lot Pope faggot.

>>52977970
I haven't read any oWoD beyond hunter, so I wouldn't know, I was just asking the question. Still that seems kinda shakey, like assuming there is some vampire out there who could punch the earth in half, he obviously never would

>>52978009
There are vampires capable of destroying planets. But only planets. They can't blow up stars or cause black holes to eat galaxies.

Or worse, shut off gravity everywhere.

How did old mummy work?

>>52977947
It doesn't seem unlikely that there would be at least one Mage with motivation and the power necessary to learn the truth about Kindred and where they came from. It also seems silly that a Mage would just dismiss something as a myth. It would be more likely for him to just not care either way, but for the Mage that does care, I imagine he would look into it.

He could figure either through magic snooping or from the Anarchs just wanting to spite the Camarilla who disown Caine if I'm not mistaken, or from the Sabbat who believe he exists.

But the most likely option is he uses magic to figure it out, and not from a casual conversation with a vampire at a bar.

>>52978125
Or just use Time.
The real question is whether or not Caine will know anything about the Archmage. It goes both ways.

I would still give the edge to the Archmage when it comes to knowledge gathering.

>>52978007
It's literally impossible for one person to ruin a thread unless they're truly spamming. It takes multiple people to react to the first one.

>>52978125
You are implying than an entire category of people would make the same assumption and the same reasoning?
He could figure either through magic snooping or from the Anarchs just wanting to spite the Camarilla who disown Caine if I'm not mistaken, or from the Sabbat who believe he exists.

How? I don't think that mages know what the Anarchs even are, or the Camarilla, as vampire don't know the various Mage tradition differences or Werewolves tribes.
How can you magic snoop something you don't even have one single clue about? Would you just hear about this "Caine" without even knowing who the hell he is, except someone would go full Kronk saying: "Oh yeah Caine, the vampire father, the father of all vampires, that Caine!" And that would be quite forced.
Even you mind rape someone to see his knowledge, you would need to SEARCH for the information, it will not get handled at you. Then you also need to exclude any possible ignorant Caitiff, or Followers of Set, or any other not-believing faction/clan, it's not that easy, and even in that case, it would just come up as a myth, you say that the mage would investigate into it? That's also up to interpretation, and saying that's what every mage would do is just not true. Then, even if you discover he's real somehow, you need to find him and then you still have to discover the sevenfold curse and it's effects, even if you remove vampirism from him, he would still have it until specifically removed and can backfire at you. I don't know it seems that this entire plan seems a little bit forced to be something to be so sure off, but it would be interesting to create a campain around it.

>>52978340
I also forgot to say that the only people knowing about the curse effects I guess are only Caine himself, Lilith and God.

>>52978171
This is true. If Caine doesn't know how Archmages work he's in a world of pain.

It would also be an easy matter for an Archmage to find his strengths and weaknesses. Magic is really good at exacting information.

>>52977701
I don't think thats really possible to answer given that no one really knows how oWoD arch spheres actually work in play, shits obtuse as fuck. A hunter can make the rays from the sun deal 10 lethal damage dice per round to any supernatural, but I don't know enough about mage to know what they can do about that.

>>52978380
I highly HIGHLY doubt that.

>>52978402

>what is Masters of the Art

>>52978411
No I know that book exists, I have the pdf myself. Im just saying those rules are some of the strangest and most obtuse Ive seen in any white wolf book ever

>>52978438
Ah, we can agree on that.

Reminder that it only takes Prime 6 to delete the seven fold curse.

Or any curse / blessing

>>52978457
Entropy 4, Life 4, Matter 4, Prime 6.
you mean

How powerful the vampire is, it matters not. A mage with those Spheres is effective Kryptonite to them wholly and entirely.
Remove their vampirism and their access to the Disciplines.

Adding Forces 9 would essentially 'cure' every-and-all Kindred.

>>52978457
>>52978491
>B-but its the vampire fags that are responsible for the flamewars
I don't know what I expected from this place. It's 4chan, its all the same, everyone just likes fighting.

>>52978340
>How can you magic snoop something you don't even have one single clue about?
You really think that Mages in a city wouldn't know about the other supernaturals in a city? Do you think that it would be totally impossible for a determined mage to learn about them?

How dense are you?

Was the time of judgment stuff considered cool when it first came out?

>>52978340
Actually the Order of Hermes has extensive records on the various vampiric clans. Not in terms of their interworkings or exact history, but in terms of who they are and what their subdivision is, as well as their status as Cainites. Why wouldn't they know this?

The Order of Hermes book outright says they know the difference between the Camarilla and the Sabbat, and have protocols for dealing with vampires in general.

>>52978906
>and have protocols for dealing with vampires in general.

You need a protocol besides "incinerate on sight"?

>>52975754
polls have become relatively common here as of late

>>52978952
No but there's only so much porch space on Doisestep.

>>52978906
Makes sense, seeing as it was a group of them that had the bright idea to tamper with vampiric immortality.

If I'm out in sea could use compelling instead of ruling matter to create a wave or current of water? Seeing as the sea is in constant motion I don't think you need ruling practices right?

>>52979622
It would be Compelling anyway, because iirc Compelling is just causing something to do what it could do already.

File: Void Engineers.png (2MB, 1067x1375px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1067x1375px

Anyone here ever played a Technocracy game?

>>52979622
That sounds like a sound rationale.
I'd allow it.

Talking about the Umbra/Shadow/Whatever here
What's at the very bottom of the Abyss?
Is it Caine?

>>52980930
It's Lasombra.

>>52978340
Don't forget mages wasting quintessence and time chasing something which as far as they know is a rumor

>>52981260
I don't think Archmages in Ascension need quiessence or whatever.

>>52981260
Dumbass.

>>52975763

HAY U GAIZ is really more changeling or the minor lines. Vamp is more CAINE UBER ALLES.

>>52981667
wat

>>52977231
You forget the question of why archmages would WANT to kill Caine.

>>52977384
I remember an end times game where we managed to shut the Asswad down by herding every Marauder we could find up into his business.

>>52981774
>Al-Aswad proceeds to swat the Marauders into oblivion
>Everything was 'just as planned' cuz Entropy 10
>Decides to finally change name

>>52976241
>God cares enought about Caine to probably act
Sorry I'm new to the WoD in general, colsest I got was playing VtMB. Why does God care about Cain? If it was so, wouldn't he left him uncrused in the first place?

>>52982645
God cares about Caine, but not in a loving way. Caine is God's favorite punching bag.

The Technocracy is the good faction and Traditionalists are literally fascists.
> Adepts
Literally paulbots.
> Akashics
Embarrassing fucking stereotypes.
> Chorus
Literally creationists.
> Ecstatics
Jim Jones fanboys.
> Etherites
Literally snake oil peddlers who deny not just scientific facts, but the scientific method itself while claiming to support science.
> Euthanatoi
Want to create an oligarchy the whole point of which is deciding who gets to live and who to die with zero input from anyone not rubbing shoulders with the higher-ups in the organisation.
> Dream Speakers
Literally want to make everyone into cavemen.
> Hermetics
Mussolini fanboys.
> Verbenae
Literally Wiccans.

>>52982844
You'd think with all the budget cuts and whining about being overstretched, the NWO would have more important things to do than psyops on a Balinese finger-painting forum.

>>52981871

You don't understand. We were archmasters by this point too. Our Hermetic and Adept managed to decrypt a shadow name for him which we used that to portal the Marauders to his mindspace and caused him to have a total breakdown as he was assaulted by all the different conflicting possibilities.

It also helped that we managed to debunk Oblivion by "feeding" Entropy to it with a little help from the Greys. This basically "fixed" Entropy and revealed Telos.

In spite of all this, it wasn't magick, but rather philosophy that broke the Nephandi.

Oblivion doesn't matter, because there's too much going on here and now to let a bunch of assholes who can't get past nihilism ruin it all. Things may be bad now, but making them worse isn't the answer. It could be something wonderful or at least servicable. But there needs to BE a tellurian for us to try.

Does the Tellurian encompasses the Moon or is it strictly limited to Earth?

File: 1487463009305.jpg (63KB, 553x585px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 553x585px

>>52982844
Tumblr's that way assuming this isn't pic related.

Say what you want, despite all their powers, i think that Mages may actualy be the weakest form of supernaturals, especially those who wield universe-changing powers.
In my headcanon at least.

I always figured that when you start trafficking with the powers of a god, you tend to pay little care about smaller things, and details may slip up.

I like the idea of a Mage creating a gigantormic magical fortress, defended and shielded by any kind of supernatural attack or infiltration, but if a guy with a gun tries to slip inside, they just let him

>>52983527
oWoD or nWoD?

In 2e awakening it's the entire fallen world. The astral, shadow, underworld, emanation realms, the entire observable universe.

Anything but the abyss and the lower depths.

>>52983566
I mean that would be thematically correct at least. Hubris and all that.

>>52983566

It fits thematics, if not mechanics. Mage is fun but it doesn't really do it's own hubris and overconfidence themes well, as it makes it a bit too hard to actually fuck stuff up or to actually be overconfident unless other mages are about.

>>52983571
oWoD

>>52983566
That's how the story says it works, the mechanics don't really support that. Although I'm pretty sure Demon and Mummy have powerlevels comparable to Mages, so it's entirely probable they could go down to something like that.

After reading that ass-long review of Beast someone posted I had an idea for a short game:

You play as one of the Hunters in a high-school Cell. For years people have spread rumours about the Principal and her horrible treatment of students, however you just assumed she was nothing more than a bitch.

You were wrong.

In reality the President is a Beast who lords over her domain, she takes things from people and keeps them locked away, punishes students for simple infractions with strange methods, and in general acts mean.

Somehow you find out and take up the torch against the darkness, all while maintaining your grades and impressing your friends, not to mention avoiding being grounded for 'setting the principals hair on fire because she's a witch'.

>>52983703
Well if i am the ST i can still make it happen somehow ain't I

>>52983730
You appear to have written a magical girl game.

I'd still play it

>>52983730
It also means you can have a character who fights things that go bump in the night "because the bitch didn't give me back my gameboy".

>>52983589
>>52983620
>>52983703
Is it sort of how multi-degree masters are supposed to be rare according to the fluff but mechanically there is absolutely no reason why that should be true?

>>52983859
Pretty much. It's easy to say, from a story perspective, "most mages die before they get to that point, it's really difficult to get there," but then it gets kind of hard to imagine what actually kills a mage, since they're so fucking powerful. Even when they're caught by surprise, they still have a lot of options.

>>52975741
Recently found it and suggested the idea to my group. They didn't like the idea

>>52983859

Yeah. Realisiticly to fit with it's themes they needed to add in either more limits to what a mage can do (Making being a multi-degree master a lot harder or even impossible) or to make your powers a lot less certain. Something to make it so that mages need to actually be careful despite the great power they hold.

>>52983698
It's the world plus all the things around and below it. Umbra, underworld, etc.

>>52984327
So even the Moon, or is it treated as a different thing?

>>52978885
Follow up. From what I understand, a lot of oWoD books are written with fiction taking up most of the fluff chapters, and thats also where a lot of the meta plot happens. If I feel crazy enough to want to know about literally all of the meta plot of a line, is going through and reading every single book the best way to do it?

>>52984046
>>52984307
My personal explanation is a combination of hubris/resting on your laurels, those who reach such levels of powers are about to reach threshold were 99.999999% will get deleted from reality, and mages with such power are going to attract the interest of truly terrifying things (abyss, ochemata of an exarch, fallen gods) where even their level of magic can't compete.

>>52983859
I always assumed that system mechanics were not setting physics. To use an analogy, buying dex and firearms up to 5 each isn't to hard, so why doesn't every police officer have them? Well because they just aren't good enough. The PC's get to buy their skills to whatever they want because thats how the game works, but it isn't that simple in universe. And the same holds true with mages and arcana.

>>52984976
There was sort of a limit in 1e which sort of but not really justified why an established belligerent NPC Mage didn't destroy every non-magical problem with extreme prejudice.

But it was fucking annoying for PCs in the mid to late game.
Kind of glad it's gone to be honest.

Ehat is the geographical distribution of Sabbat, Anarchs and Camarilla in the world? Where are their strongholds and where do they fight for supremacy?

I need some geographical references for a V:tM game but i really can't find any map or specific informations

>>52983566
Your idea of 'weak' is pretty fucking pathetic.

>>52983054
I don't think you've actually done any of that. Too much blatant falseness of the lore to assume otherwise.
I don't think you even know the definition of Oblivion in accordance to the oWoD. None of what you said makes any sense, whatsoever.

Are you pretending? Why?

Aren't prepared Masters unbeatable if you're the thing they're specifically prepared for?

I mean, if they know your advantages and weaknesses both, you'd think they'd be a magical batman.

>>52987631
Tabletop spellcasters are usually synonymous with batman, yes.

>>52976184
>vaumptism occurs in public
>subtly change the crowds memory to recall that cloak wearing neckbeard is actually a convicted pedophile with video tapes of child debauches who is fleeing justice

>>52976627
>when you bully entropy mages too hard and they turn to forces

>>52987631
No, they could absolutely be defeated by another prepared Master who is prepared for the first Master preparing for him.

>>52977489
Cainefags are cancer. In what twisted shell of a childhood did vampires ever capture a heterosexual man's imagination in the last 30 years. Surprise;the answer is none

>>52988281
Makes sense.

File: tumblr_o95kp3smVU1uhkylso1_400.jpg (10KB, 320x252px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 320x252px

>>52980828
No but I'd like to one day

>>52980828
I'm working on running one but I'm really bad at world building so I'm slow as shit and have only run one game where I realized I didn't prepare enough to improvise from without an actual central plot.

>>52987403

No one's ever accused our group of playing too true to the lore at any given time.

>>52988679

Especially at cosmic level.

File: 1376777209574.jpg (1MB, 2560x1730px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2560x1730px

>>52988312

>>52986504
If your city is even remotely relevant, there will likely be a publicly-posted writeup (most likely unofficial) of its WoD history that you can glean for ideas. Google "[your city] world of darkness"

>>52988775
I don't want it city-wise, i want it world-wise

Exc what is the situation in France? who controls it? What about GB and Spain? What about the US?

I see there are single mentions of cities and the particular case of Utah, but never have i seen a map or a description of the like "The sabbat controls most of the midwest, while the camarilla predominantly dominates over the east coast and some shit like that "

I need it to define where should i set my campaign in the first place, don't want them to play camarilla in a Sabbat-only place by mistake

>>52988836
>I need it to define where should i set my campaign in the first place, don't want them to play camarilla in a Sabbat-only place by mistake

You should at least be able to find general regions where one faction or another mostly holds sway in the books. Most of Europe is fairly Cam-heavy, though.

>>52988836

I think it's left open. Place-books only really exist to give examples of how it's done.

>>52988836
I'm not sure that the official sources have that level of detail. I'm only aware of city-specific source books.

>>52988914
This is how I like to interpret it too, though I can definitely see the immersion value in sticking with one core history, and as such will tend towards that where practicable.

File: Maps.pdf (629KB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

629KB, 1x1px

>>52988836
Here you go.

>>52989494
thanks senpai

where you find this shit?

>>52989553
I think it's from the Storyteller's guide to the Sabbat. It's been a while since I cut out those few pages.

>>52981774
>You forget the question of why archmages would WANT to kill Caine.
This is a point. I could imagine an archmage strong enough to be sure he could do it and win to also have a LOT of other priorities.

>>52989764
Caine is a good boy. He doesn't really do much. His children are the bad kids.

An Archmage could wipe the floor with Caine, to be certain. But why? These supreme wizards are more concerned with off-world matters and their petty quarrels for even more power.

Is there any way for Caine to defend against the Prime 6 Rote(s) ??

>>52989764
Honestly the main concern of playing an archmage is to keep the fragile-ass reality and world alive and stable while so many people and forces try to fuck with it. If something as critical as Caine really IS a fragile bitch baby, chances are that archmages are either deliberately noninterfering or going out of their way to preserve his delicate bottom when needed.

Maybe the world would be better if Caine never existed, but the butterfly effect on that might go out of control to such a great degree that a lifetime of other things need correcting just to keep microwave popcorn in existence in the modern day.

>>52990976
Not all Archmagi care for the concerns of earthbound matters though. They can form entire planets for themselves and others, surrounded by their own personal consensus.
If they needed Caine's beating heart for some strange unlikely esoteric ritual, they wouldn't waste time flaying his chest open and grabbing it.

It would be unwise, but these wizards ditched morality a long time ago. Even the more benevolent ones such as Porthos Fitz-Empress are quite nutty in the head.

Would Caine be immune to the energy produced by the Sun's core? Because a Correspondence 6 Archmage only needs three successes to teleport you there with but a thought.

>>52990668
>An Archmage could wipe the floor with Caine, to be certain. But why?
To piss off his fanboys in another dimension where all the happenings in the Archmage's world gets published as material for a ttrpg.

>>52991348
With three successes, six dots in Correspondence is enough to hurl anything through space at the speed of light.

So much potential for abuse.

Sometimes I wonder if things would be better if we seperated the threads into "wodg&cofdg" and "The Adventures of Caine and Archmage Freddy" as a seperate general since the demand is clearly there.

Things back here would be as slow as a arthritic slug but that is a price I would pay.

>>52991664
>"The Adventures of Caine and Archmage Freddy"

Sounds like a Saturday morning cartoon.

>>52991698
All part of the new cross-media Paradox master plan.

So apparently, at Spirit 6 you only need twenty-five given successes to dominate and-or enslave a Celestine, such as Gaia & The Triat or perhaps even God if he's (supposedly) of the same status.

Horizon: Stronghold of Hope is an interesting supplement. A whole planet of wizards is a great lure for players.

Okay now for the REAL question
Could an archmage date caine?

>>52991934
>twenty-five given successes
Easy to do if you prepare.
Never knew beating actual gods could be so simple.

>>52991960
Already happened if you're among the 'Lilith was an ancient Verbena' crowd.
She's his crazy ex.

Might as well ask, does anyone have have the physical books for WoD lines? Are they decently well made?

>>52992572
Yes. Generally high quality with glossy ink.

How do I get into Awakening? The system seems a lot more robust, but I can't picture Mage without paradigm, it just makes it seem like characters are all too similar to each other.

>>52994458
You need to read a bit more into it, anon. There's a lot of philosophical leeway in Awakening.

>>52994458
It's not like the Paths are classes, with stereotypes that you have to adhere to. They're pretty broad, with any one Arcanum offering tons of abilities and possibilities. It's more on you to decide what kind of magic is in line with your character's style and if it would be in-character for your Adamantine Arrow Tamer of Fire to use Forces to hack this computer or whatever.

Is Saulot the good guy of VtM?

>>52996169
There are no good guys.

>>52996169
There's only bad vampires and worse vampires, and which is which depends on who you ask.

I forget where I read that.

>>52991934
HOw do you get 25 successes?

>>52996169
>Ran off to the East to copy/steal Kui-jin enlightenment philosophy
>Repackaged it into essentially Canite Virtue Signaling
>"Accidentally" created a bloodline of literal Cartoonishly Evil demon worshipers
>Let himself get diablerized so he could bodyjack Tremere at a later date

>good guy
Saulot is just as shit as all the other antedeluvians, if anything he's more insidious because he has successfully cultivated an image of being "the good one" for thousands of years

>>52996283
extended rituals

>>52996372
>>Ran off to the East to copy/steal Kui-jin enlightenment philosophy
He went to the east to seek wisdom, nothing wrong with that.

>>Repackaged it into essentially Canite Virtue Signaling
I don't remember this, I thought he gained his third eye from the trip to the east, I might be wrong though.

>>"Accidentally" created a bloodline of literal Cartoonishly Evil demon worshipers
MAYBE he created them, but no one is sure who really created the Baali. And everyone makes mistakes, Saulot was also the first to see them as a threat and reacted accordingly.

>>Let himself get diablerized so he could bodyjack Tremere at a later date
And? Diablerists deserve no campassion. I wanted to know why he needs Tremere's body though

>>52996514
>And? Diablerists deserve no campassion

Diablerie is the only way to go anywhere in VtM, id be fucked off if i was 13th gen forever and could get mind raped by just about anybody, fuck that, eat your way to the top!

>>52996570
It is stated on the Book of Nod that Diablerie is the worst crime a Vampire can commit, you are literally devouring another's soul. Caine would get pissed.

>>52996603
Don't tell me you wouldn't eat the soul of a Methuselah if you could!

>>52996372
>he has successfully cultivated an image of being "the good one" for thousands of years
Isn't this literally the opposite of true? The Tremere ran a smear campaign pegging them as infernalists that was SUCCESSFUL, leading them to being wiped out, and the truth is known to only a few even today.

>>52996615
I wouldn't

And you should not too, as you would probably lose control of your own body

>>52996642
>or gain those new disciplines and skills, yummy yummy!

>>52996169
He wasn't cursed by Caine, so I would say yes

>>52996642
Weak! You're a weak chopper!

>>52982844
>The Technocracy is the good faction and Traditionalists are literally fascists.
This man knows what's going on!

Black hats and mirror shades baby!

>>52983548
>liking the Technocracy is tumblr
I'll admit I spend 90% of my time on /tg/ in 40K related threads, but how the fuck did you come to this conclusion? Because everything I know about the technocracy doesn't really seem to make them all that endearing to tumblrites.

>>52996169

He is, but Onyx Path is trying to turn him into another kind of bad guy with all their shit revision of the lore with V20.

>>52997110
The lore was already shit.

>>52996838
It wasn't liking the technocracy... it was how it was phrased. The whole "Everything that I don't like is literally Hitler" vibe.

File: New World Order.png (23KB, 500x498px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 500x498px

>>52996838
The NWO influences and manipulates both sides of the political spectrum.

>>52996169
>Is Saulot the good guy of VtM?
>>52997110
>He is, but Onyx Path is trying to turn him into another kind of bad guy with all their shit revision of the lore with V20.
>>52996372
>Saulot is just as shit as all the other antedeluvians, if anything he's more insidious because he has successfully cultivated an image of being "the good one" for thousands of years

V20 isn't deliberately turning him evil, it's actually adhering to the previous lore... which was that noobody knew for sure whether Saulot was "a pretty cool guy, eh", or a Mmachiavellian mastermind whose personal masquerade as a good guy ended up actually turning his clanmates into *genuine* good guys.

V20 *expands* on the possibility of Saulot not being as pure as the Salubri claim, but like most things it tries to be as agnostic as possible, in order to step on as few toes as possible.

So, if you want an evil Saulot in your games, go for it. If you want him to be a good guy, go for it. If you want him to be anything inbetween, go for it.

>>52996570
>Diablerie is the only way to go anywhere in VtM

Well, it's the *fastest* confirmed canon way, yes.

VtM has always had more ways to lower your generation, both temporarily and permanently, but they usually require a steep cost or you need to invest a lot of time and effort, the sort of stuff that would take up an entire story rather than just a "oh yeah, this guy found a way to lower his generation in-between sessions, lol".

>>52998715

>V20 *expands* on the possibility of Saulot not being as pure as the Salubri claim, but like most things it tries to be as agnostic as possible, in order to step on as few toes as possible.

No, it doesn't. OPP is literally lining him up as a bad guy in the Beckett Jyhad Diary.

>>52998733
Are they making him out to be a bad guy, or just an antagonist?

>>52998829

A bad guy, not just someone to be set up against any sort of players. IIRC they're turning him into Cappadocius 2.0, something to do with usurping God?

>>52998733
Interesting. Could you specify the source of your detailed information on a book that isn't even out yet?

>>52998846
Cappadocius did nothing wrong

>>53000302
Cappadocius did everything wrong.

>>53000302
>>53000414
Well, God's quite the asshole in WoD, as we can confirm from Demon. Of course, God is also probably dead long before Cappadocius started his scheme, which would probably leave him feeling rather silly once he figured that out (if he managed to).

>>53000523

Nah, Time of Judgment makes it clear God is still kicking around, he's just taken a mostly non-interference stance on things.

>>53000414
>implying the feast of folly wasn't the single most brilliant thing a vampire has ever done

>>53000574
It's not confirmation, since it describes how God might have died.

Of course, I hate the concept of the Abrahamic God to begin with and wouldn't use it in WoD. RL religion is all right as far as it goes, but I wouldn't confirm any of it.

>>53000618

Well, it was a focal point for oWoD, given that Caine was cursed by God and that vampirism stems from the curses the angels laid on him.

Also, why would you let your own personal bias play into how you play a game in a completely fictional and unrealistic setting?

I know Changelings react to Prometheans the same way normies do (hating the shit out of them) but what do Fae think of the frankenstein men? I know they're not good candidates for kidnapping because 'no soul' but other than that how do they react to meeting one?

>>53000643
Because it's for narrative reasons that I hate the concept, and I've already devised a more interesting one in my mind. The First Vampire was an individual from an unknown culture whose tribe was being menaced by some kind of monster from the Abyss, that kept resurrecting itself even after it was killed, and it turned out that the only way to destroy it permanently was to eat its heart. This person did this, and was then vampirized.

>>53000684

You might as well use that for nWoD, given how vague it is on the origin of vampirism.

>>53000691
If it ever comes up, I plan on using it for both.

>>53000698

Kind of pointless to use it for oWoD, given how well established everything is. The only people who might go with what you offer is people who are completely ignorant of oWoD.

>>53000659
"What is that? Urgh, a tasteless half-formed demi-human.
Perhaps I'll come back later. When it's done."

>>53000704
What's the point of seeking out hidden lore if all the lore is well-known already? Changing things up would make for more surprises.

>>53000717

I'm talking about metaplot perspective, not in-game. Most people familiar with oWoD Vampire will just look at your idea as something utterly silly. If you desire open-vagueness, Requiem is far more suited to you.

Not to mention, the Abyss thing? That's something made by God, who placed the angels who rebelled against him there, where they then turned into Demons. So again, you're bringing God into this, one way or another. If you don't like the idea of God being present in the setting of oWoD, just don't play it.

>>53000684
is that not the nwod origin story, abyss monster is the stryx??

>>53000753
I'm talking about the Werewolf/Vampire Abyss, the pit of darkness that the concepts of lost things wind up in, as well as Lasombra. I also think that the idea of "just don't play it" is incredibly restrictive for no reason, since I like everything else about oWoD and God is pretty much never important on a nightly basis.

>>53000763
The Striges were the origin of only one clan, the Julii. Which I suspect were just Strix-made copies of the Ventrue.

>>53000768

>I also think that the idea of "just don't play it" is incredibly restrictive for no reason

You're very weird.

You're like a person who doesn't like something, then proceeds to go to a convention for said thing, and then complain that it isn't suited to his taste.

>>53000787
How am I complaining? I'm not demanding that White Wolf change anything. I just would change it in a game I ran, which the books constantly say you can do.

>>53000817

No, I get that. It's just that God as he is described in all the various splats of oWoD is an important figure. A distant, absent father-like figure, but important all the same. All splats connect to him, in one way or another.

>>53000847
just remember a archmage can twat god.

>>53000847
Not werewolves at all. And only important to vampires as a religious figure, not as an actual one. The only other non-Demon oWoD splat I have personal experience with is Mummy, which never brings God up either.

>>53000882

>Not werewolves at all.

What? Garou were, once upon a time, angels.

Now, admittedly, I have no idea what Mummy is like, never read anything about it, but it's quite possible God is there too, in some form. The Kuei Jin have him as the August Personage of Jade, for example.

>>53000905
>What? Garou were, once upon a time, angels.
The hell? Where is this mentioned?

File: 58282684_p0.jpg (576KB, 749x895px) Image search: [Google]

576KB, 749x895px

Shes a newly awakened Moros. Will you teach her?

>>53001154
No.

Apprentices are for chumps.

File: 1402267338227.jpg (130KB, 499x499px) Image search: [Google]

130KB, 499x499px

>>53001471
>he doesn't have qt apprentices
>he doesn't ruthlessly indoctrinate them to trust him and only him and regard all other magical beings with suspicion
>he doesn't use his apprentices as a private-army-cum-cult to advance several centuries worth of plans

ishygddt

Are any of the nWoD systems actually any good?

I was raised on oWoD by nWoD haters (And admittedly, the one time I tried nVampire I /hated/ it)

>>53001652
Promethean is p good, and Changeling is definitely miles better in nWoD than oWoD. I guess it just depends on how you want to play.

File: dense.png (70KB, 243x200px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 243x200px

>>52998733
>OPP is literally lining him up as a bad guy in the Beckett Jyhad Diary.

I actually prefer the idea of an antagonistic Saulot, but read the previews again, mate.

Remember, the Jyhad Diary is a chronicle-starter for Gehenna-level plays. It offers a scenario (such as "The vampires of Jerusalem are acting odd"), and then offers various story-hooks that Storytellers COULD use to expand on the story.

For example, in the "Jerusalem" scenario which centers around the idea of Malkav being in torpor under the city, Malkav might remain asleep, he might already be dead, he might already be living inside every Malkavian in existence via the Madness Network, he might never have been in Jerusalem in the first place, he might get corrupted by followers of Lilith, he might alter the Madness Network to make his clanmates into a true hive mind, AND SO FUCKING ON.

In the same manner, the Jyhad Diary offers different scenarios that storytellers can use as plothooks regarding the Salubri, the Tremere, the Assamites, etc.

If people want to play a story featuring Saulot trying to break free from Tremere so he can save humanity, "Here's some plothooks you can use if you want!". If you want to play Saulot as an evil asshole "here's one way to do it!". If you want to play Saulot as corrupted but ultimately redeemable, "I've got an idea for how you could potentially make that work!".

Learn to read, scrub.

Enyone ever explained why there are Vampires in Utah?
Do the skinwalkers instagib them as soon as they cross the border?

>>53002356
*There are NO Vampires in Utah, is what i meant

>>53002374
Even vampires can't stand Mormons

>>53002374
Mormon Jesus?

Is there a male-only bloodline in Vampire? Requiem or Dark Ages/Masquerade.

>>52998715
>VtM has always had more ways to lower your generation, both temporarily and permanently, but they usually require a steep cost or you need to invest a lot of time and effort, the sort of stuff that would take up an entire story rather than just a "oh yeah, this guy found a way to lower his generation in-between sessions, lol".
Could you give some exemples? I only know two temporarily methods: 4 dots of Sanguinus and 3 dots of Path of Blood (Thaumaturgy)

>>53004196
Not that i know of in masquerade
Closest thing is Tzmisce, since they fleshcraft their bodies so much sex has no meaning to them

>>53004231

Well that's weird. I think I've noticed one or two female-only bloodlines, but no male counterpart.

>>53004308
It would be seen as sexist.

>>53004389

Why would it, if there's already female-only?

>>53004402
Double standards and all that.

>>53004402
You can't be sexist toward men, only women are weak enough to be hurt by such things.

>>53004196
>>53004308
Blood Brothers

>>53004533

>The Blood Brothers are a rare Kindred bloodline of the Sabbat, created by a group of Tremere antitribu and Tzimisce kolduns.
>Tremere antitribu
>Tremere and Tzimisce working together

What a load of barnacles.

File: Hermanna.jpg (52KB, 365x500px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 365x500px

>>53004533
I guess this is a drag queen with one hell of a fleshcraft titjob...

>>53004198
Assamite sorcery could do it

>>52978885
Only mage, everything else got shat on, for obvious reasons (vampire scenarios were rushed af, werewolf were boring LotR shit and there was a lot of butthurt that the rest of the lines got put together in a single book)

>>52984742
You could do that... if they actually tried to organize themselves and make the fluff fit. Otherwise it's just impossible.

Just read the revised clanbooks, time of thin blood ,Gehenna, Constantinople by night and the bitter crusade

>>52986504
Sabbat have mexico, Canada, the east coast and half of Australia

Cams Europe, Midwest, south america and half of Australia.

Anarchs the west coast

>>53005600
anarchs have shit, the KoTE have the west coast.

>>53005600
Anyone ever run a game in Sabbat-controlled Toronto, or any Sabbat territory for that matter? Have been considering it

>no General in the title

worse than questfags m8

>>53005641
every sabbat game ive played in turns to shit, people just play retarded sabbat chars and try to find the funniest/retarded ways to break the masq. Would love to have played a serious one but it never happens

>>53001652
Demon is great

>>53005717
but nobody plays it

>>53005635
Ackshully Cammies took back the west coast. Tara from San Diego is the prince.

>>53005803
Does not change the point

>>53001652
Beast is amazingly good, the perfect example of nwod

File: 936.jpg (7KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 200x200px

>>53005949

>>53001652
The systems? Well yeah, in my experience they're generally easier and funner to run then their oWoD equivalents basically across the board.

>>53005803
I play it

>>53000847
Sorry no, the definition of God and his connection to relevant splats varies.

File: Ravnos_image.jpg (609KB, 604x800px) Image search: [Google]

609KB, 604x800px

I saw a screenshot or an excerpt from one of the previous threads, an accounting from a Nagaraja vampire about some city in India, where the Salubri, Ravnos and someone else ruled the place. Some kind of weird take on "what if the Salubri prospered" after the Tremere's slander. Anyone have any idea where it's from?

>>52996514
Nah it's pretty definitive that Saulot created the Baali, and it's been confirmed both in and out universe.

> I wanted to know why he needs Tremere's body though

This is from Transylvania Chronicles, so your milleage may vary.

BUT

It's suggested that the Baali, Salubri and even Tremere were all plots by him to make the perfect bloodline so he could have an army when he finally became demon emperor.
Of course, the baali were too evil, and the salubri were too tame (with the exception of the warriors). So the Tremere were the perfect amoral bastards to help him, so he sacrificed the Salubri and allowed himself to be diablerized so he could seize his body when the time was right. Here he fucked up, since Tremere was far stronger than he realized,
and subsequently he was locked in. Of course,
there are implications in KotE that either a projection or fragment of Saulot became the wandering overlord of the yomi world, manipulating things there as well

>>53000910
It's a possibility brought up in DtF

>>53002374
>>53002356
Jokes aside, it's all in time of thin blood.

Since Mormons place special importance on saving their ancestors as well as themselves, the LSD has one of the best genealogies in the world.

The Tremere believe that this genealogy is the true name for the entirety of the human species, and are intent on stealing it when it's finally complete. So any vamp that crosses the Utah border is immediately staked and left in the sun

>>53006388
VDA 20

>>53006669

Thanks. Do you maybe know the exact page? If not, it's no bother, I'll go look for it myself.

>>53006681
salubri apocrypha- it's at the end of the book

>>53000905
>>53000910
>>53006511
The novels clarify that. They are not, at all. Just mistakes them for them in the ST guide

>>53006712

Again, thank you.

>>53006753
No prob

>>53001652
>Are any of the nWoD systems actually any good?
Awakening.

File: 24c5f3da.jpg (11KB, 320x240px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 320x240px

>>53002356
>>53002374
Because nothing bad ever happens in Utah.

>>53004198
>Could you give some exemples?

Infernal pacts with demons (or at least beings that masquerade as demons) can permanently lower Generation, but those almost always come at the cost of your soul.
---- V20 Rites of Blood, pg. 113.

The level five ritual "The Pursuit of Apotheosis" practiced by New Age Anarch thaumaturges is also rumored to be capable of lowering a vampire's generation through wide-scale ritualistic suicide of human followers, in a "drink the kool-aid" type of ritual. Every human cultist killed offers the kindred an experience point that they can use on attributes, abilities and disciplines, and possibly generation as well, through the number of humans that would have to die to accomplish this is unknown, but likely very high. Regardless, anyone who attempts the ritual *WILL* gain the black streaks of diablerie in their aura, which is slightly telling.
---- V20 Rites of the Blood, pg. 65.

There is also the Assamite level five ritual "From Marduk's Throat" which is how the Assamites kept lowering their generation despite being "allergic" to diablerie. It's an alchemical potion consisting of herbs, chemicals and other exotic ingredients, in addition to potent blood harvested (or bought/donated) from older Kindred. To reduce the drinker’s Generation by one level, the potion must incorporate a number of blood points from vampires of lower Generation than the drinker equal to four times the maximum blood point value of the desired Generation. So to drop from eighth to seventh requires 80 points' worth of blood from seventh-generation vampires or lower, since a seventh gen vampire has a blood pool of 20 (20x4=80).
---- V20, Lore of the Clans pg. 31.

I won't lie...this is how everyone in Consilium acts in my games
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgdV1IVkk8E

>>53007485
In short, mechanically speaking, spending all of your Background points on Generation is by far the best option.

This is what every VtM larp turns into....sausage fest..

https://www.youtube.co/watch?v=7ogydMMtHZA

Everything is wrong with LARP

>>53007608

That's kind of strange. I don't know if OPP/WW keeps demographics but the V:tM scene in my city is herds of mostly female gothopotami

>>53007634
Tabletops make it a lot more inconvenient to get my dick sucked between running scenes tho.

>>53006604
Wait what?

LSD? genealogy? Are the Tremere going to do what to who?

>>53007772

>>53005635
>>53005834
That only happens if you want it.

It's openly stated in Anarchs Unbound that you can ignore or add this events as you see fit since they've been retconned since

Also Tara got instagibbed as soon as he betrayed the Anarchs, so the Cammy doesn't really have shit on the west coast

>>53007585
>In short, mechanically speaking, spending all of your Background points on Generation is by far the best option.

From a pure "how to make the most powerful vampire" point of view, putting all your Background into Generation isn't a bad choice.

That said, in practice a lot of STs (from my own experiences and what I've seen online) usually place restrictions on Generation during character creation, only allowing up to 3 dots in Generation, or in other words, no lower starting generation than 10th, at least in the Modern Age.

Which makes a certain kind of sence both IC and OOC. 8th-9th Gens are meant to be pretty rare in the Final Nights; heck, they weren't really all that common in the Dark Ages either. Not "SUPER RARE, NEVER GONNA SEE ONE", but still something out of the ordinary.

And, from an OOC point of view, I reckon that the STs find it easier to initially keep track of each individual character if they can't spend more than 1 bloodpoint every turn.

>>53007768
By some fat goth chick? No thanks.

>>53007891
I'm like 90% sure no one ever actually banged the fat ones, despite them wanting it.