Idea got shot down because its not "PC"

If you don't say "nigger" at least once a session, yr in the wrong group

>>52968228
play up the shit they had, which was quite a bit actually. surprise them, if theyre expecting pygmies and spears give them blast furnaces and great zimbabwe

>>52968228
Find better friends, preferably ones that know what racism actually is.

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>>52968294
I was actually planning on showing both. I had an empire in mind with vast keeps, lots of gold and ornate armor/weaponry. While also having more savage cannibalistic tribes farther out into the jungles.

>>52968314
>>52968294
this too, but seriously using africa without the stuff they actually had is just a straight up wasted opportunity

sounds like a bunch of fags

sounds like a cool idea to me. Playing medieval rorke's drift could be fun.
It sounds like you'll have to convince them that the africans arent at as big of a disadvantage as they think.
Maybe have them take penalties for wearing medium or heavy armor in the blazing sun.
The wildlife could be another issue. Have wildebeest trample through their campsite and fuck everything up or have a predator stalk them for a few nights.
thats about all i got.

>>52968314
This teebeeheitch familia

>>52968228
As long as your group aren't all edgy /pol/acks you guys missed out. I've always wanted to do a Not!Africa fantasy game.

>>52968332
Is there a good resource I can use to see what middle ages Africa actually had?

>>52968323
that sounds good, you using irl locations or same-society type stuff, also you going west africa, sahelian, east africa, or kongo/zimbabwe?

>>52968359
Don't forget an Ethiopia. Ethiopa's culture is quite different from the rest of Africa with their Christianity, stone structures, and trade connections with India and possibly Ancient Greece.

>>52968356
no single one that i can think of off the top of my head, but its gonna really depend on where in africa. kongo, ethiopia, mali, or nri are basically completely different settings

>>52968228
Okay, so there is some subtext here that needs to be picked up:

They might think you're a racist. Something you've done have made them decide they don't trust you to not portray this as something racist. Or you've done nothing and they're just assuming you have bad intentions for no reasons. But either way, I can see where discomfort starts - You're crusaders. This means that, by default, your characters are faith driven invaders. Part of the PC's mission will likely mean having to violently oppose the native culture due to matters like their faiths being unchristian.

If you're genuinely only in this because you think setting something in middle ages Africa sounds cool, here is my recommendation. Get some books of the subject matter - history, anthropology, mythology and the like. Consume them. Then once you feel like you've got enough, come back to your players, and pitch the idea of playing a game set in middle ages Africa where you are playing middle ages Africans.

If they still turn you down, then unfortunately, you've just got lame friends and you should catalog your ideas for a better group

>>52968381
true, honestly ethiopia is kinda standard medieval setting with black people though

>>52968350
>group complains that it won't be PC
>/pol/acks
If this isn't muh bogeyman, I don't know what is

>>52968228
OP consider adding a rival group of adventurers from a not!Muslim empire trying to convert as many people as possible. That'll vary the encounters quite a bit and allow you to have the option of having a Vatican/Islam proxy war and all kinds of interesting religious intrigue.

>>52968359
Not entirely certain. I was probably going to use west/central Africa or hopefully have the group travel from one major region to the other so I could really throw some variety in. Maybe start in Egypt, complete with sphinxes and jackal headed guards, and slowly move further south.

>>52968403
if its irl-type location relations, thats gonna need the sahelians too, look into Kanem-Bornu, Songhai, and the Hausa

>>52968403
Okay I've done a bit of this sort of thing in the past, pick a region and I'll try to give you the best, most RP-usable bits

>European knights on an expedition/crusade into Africa.
Why would you be on a crusade in the interior of Africa? There's nothing there to be on a crusade for. I guess some a bunch of Not!Africans came into Not!Europe and stole the holy grail or something? But if they are as technologically inferior as you're implying that shouldn't have happened in the first place.
What if a PC dies? They obviously don't want to be playing as the natives, otherwise the "European invaders" part wouldn't be necessary at all. Do you just drop the campaign as soon as one of them inevitably catches disease and kicks the bucket?
This is why

>>52968400
I can see why that could be a problem. The crusader bit was more for their reason for being there because as much as I want to run this I can't quite think of a reason why this would be going on.
>>52968402
I really like that idea. I think they would just jump to the conclusion of me making them out to be evil because they're Muslim.

>>52968478
if the "muh evil muslim" is a problem, play up the conflict angle. dont cast it as muslim bad, cast it as we, the morally questionable protagonists, have to be against them

>>52968472
>the holy grail
That's actually a good idea, not stolen but possibly hidden there. As for what happens when a PC dies I had imagined a world that was a bit more connected via trade and alliances that the real world actually was at that point.

>>52968541
make it a detective quest, have them following the grail's trail as it goes further into africa, play up that while places like Ethiopia and the like might almost feel like home, Zimbabwe and Kongo definitely won't, but they have to keep going to do their job

>>52968344
>wildebeest trample through their campsite
I didn't even consider what kind of encounters could be had with just run of the mill wildlife. Chimpanzees that try to steal their equipment, water sources could become traps in and of themselves with crocodiles lurking just beneath the surface. Have any other suggestions?

Quest for the scattered parts of the holy corpse and a portal to hell opening at the end for an ultimate battle against Satan himself a la Berserk

>>52968641
if its low fantasy are other primates smart enough to do magic

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How exactly would I handle curing wounds/diseases in a setting with low-magic?

>>52968687
shamanic healing, alchemy/herbalism, its not fast but its probably less likely to kill you than the mundane ways

>>52968687
Magical herbs crushed into paste applied to bandages rapidly accelerate healing.

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>>52968683
I like the way you think.{/spoiler]

>>52968684
Probably not. Although I could throw in something like a tribe of people that can assume the shape of an animal with the help of wearing it's pelt.

>>52968735
if you do the satan portal stuff its gotta be in the plains of South Africa, theyve got ludicrous cavern systems, and its the furthest into Africa you can go.

>>52968502
If it's total fine to have a stereotypical Muslim shiek antagonist or something, make the knights not religious crusaders, but rescuing a princess who was stolen in a slave raid or something like that. Then you don't have to violently smack down on everyone, and maybe have them visit the Christian Ethiopians as heroes or something.

>>52968641
snakes could be around every fucking corner to the point where the invasion force has to work it into the prep time to set up camp to check for snakes.
Army ants eating people alive.
Piranhas also eating people alive.
Territorial gorillas/chimps.
This could all be natural stuff or the work of tribal shamans. Either way it would be a bitch to deal with.

Oh here's an idea, the player party bungled up a witch extermination and all got branded with a sign that attracts monsters, creepy crawlies and all the things that go bump in the night to them. They got banished from their knight order and their only hope is to find the Holy Grail and wash their brands off with the holy blood that spills from it. They heard a rumor that it was to the south so now they are going through all of Africa to find it. Along the way, they run into regional problems to fix, new people to help on their quest for redemption, and rival orders sent by both the Vatican and the Muslims to convert the inhabitants, gain a foothold in Africa and find the grail. Local tribal leaders and warlords also get into the power struggle to find the grail first and also grab as much land as possible now that the stalemate between the various African tribes has been broken by these new arrivals.

That's all I got for a rough outline.

>>52968824
eh it would have to be a bit of a variant on standard antagonist #17 to fit in africa instead of the middle east but otherwise yeah

If the knights are searching for the Holy Grail/Corpse parts, are the Muslim empires searching for something?
Are there lost Islamic holy relics?

>>52968876
>the protagonists find the grail in South Africa
>manage to finally scrub off their brands and are free from being chased by demons, spirits and all other magical creatures
>just as they do this, all the other factions converge on the cave and a massive free for all fight starts with the player party trying to escape and potentially take the grail with them
>someway or another some of the spilled blood from the soldiers gets mixed with Jesus's blood
>the grail becomes corrupted by the blood spilled in anger and hate and begins to turn into something evil
>a portal to hell begins to open and all kinds of demons begin to pour out
>the enemy factions who never ran into the magical creatures that the PC party did are caught by surprise and slaughtered
>Satan himself manages to force himself partway through the breach
>the party has one final mission
>beat back Satan and his demonic army at all costs and save the world
>once they win, the world is safe from incursions from the other side but since the grail has been destroyed, Earth and humanity have lost their connection to the supernatural
>the magic is gone and no one will know or believe their story
>still, they can go home now with their names cleared

>>52969019
I assume they are also searching for the grail/corpse parts.

>>52969055
>beginning of the quest for the Grail
>the party's first stop is in Cairo or Alexandria
>as they begin investigating for the Grail's whereabouts, their brands awaken Egypt's latent magic
>the biblical plagues start to happen again
>ancient pharaohs reawaken with magical powers
>party now has to find a way of stopping this while finding the grail
>after doing multiple sidequests and killing Pharaohs now and then as minibosses, the party finds their first clue to where the Grail might be
>just as they are about to leave, a weakened version of Apophis *blocks their path*
>first full fledged boss is the party having to kill the shadow of the Egyptian god of chaos

>>52968228
Find a better group.

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What time does this take place in specifically? You can have things like primitive muskets and pistols.
>Jaguarmen being charged by pistol cavalry

>PC party spends the whole night fighting giant mosquitoes and crocodilemen because they made their camp too close to a river by accident

>>52969245
I was thinking pre-pike and shot. Probably closer to the time of the first crusade or maybe 13th century.

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>>52968356
Some of this might help:

>AFRICAN FANTASY: tips, ideas and hooks
https://pastebin.com/PKFJzHfA
Although fantasy, I put sources for africans with carbon steel and a cannibal tribe, in the Middle Ages timeframe.

Ibn Batutta is the best primary source for some of Africa's Middle Ages.
http://orias.berkeley.edu/resources-teachers/travels-ibn-battuta

http://www.blackpast.org/view/vignettesGAH_places

https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/africa/africasbook.asp#African%20Societies

>>52968472
They want to find Prester John. Both Ethiopia and Mali were thought to be the land of this great king at some time. The first, because it was a hidden christian land, and the second because it was so filthy rich.

http://www.historyguide.org/earlymod/prester_john.html

http://www.blackpast.org/gah/prester-john
>By the late 15th Century Portuguese explorers did make contact with the Christian king in Ethiopia and wrote descriptions of the court, the state, and its people. These descriptions and their correspondence provide historically valuable insight into the Ethiopian kingdom of the time.

>>52969405
Thanks for all the resources.

I'm shocked how well this thread is going.

>>52969334
I did this in my !africa setting, along with giant ants when they found some dirt mounds and decided they needed to see what was inside.

That game was great and too short thanks ot IRL changes breaking the game up.

>>52969454
whys that shocking

>>52968381
they wuz kangz

>>52969466
>>52969474
That's why.

>>52969466
Because /leftypol/, reddit and /pol/ all crawl out of the woodwork to debate historical accuracy

>>52969488
okay now im curious: basic topic: 1200s West Africa, what does /pol/ say, what does reddit say, what does /leftypol/ say?

>>52969466
Because everytime /pol/ bursts in and tries do convince everyone that Africans aren't people.

>>52969507
What do you THINK /pol/ says anon?

And why would reddit and leftypol say different things when they're the same people?

>>52969405
>They want to find Prester John. Both Ethiopia and Mali were thought to be the land of this great king at some time

Being the lone Christian Kingdom in Africa, doesn't Ethiopia totally count even if Prester John isn't real?

>>52969507
>/pol/
They wuz kangz but squandered all their wealth and became irrelevant. Also niggers are dumb.
>reddit and /leftypol/
They wuz kangz and you're racist if you don't think they were the master race.

>>52968228
Make an incredibly racist bog standad fantasy setting.

>>52968720
>>52968715
These sound great. Frankly I always liked Magic requiring practical knowhow to function best

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>>52969439
You're welcome.

>>52969530
Some though it did, but it was an incredibly tall order to achieve the contents of that fake letter.

>>52968228
https://www.amazon.com/Darkest-Africa-Retreat-Governor-Equatoria/dp/1589760441

Required reading for inspiration. I'm lucky enough to have a first edition in near perfect condition ($1800) that I picked up at an estate sale for $100,

Truly an amazing story.

>>52969531
reddit needs a bit more incredibly well known "Little know facts" from a five year old pop history article

>>52969559
Ethiopia was also fantastically wealthy, so, again... totally Prester John

Possibly even the origin of the myth.

>>52969572
Oh yeah
>muh Mansa Musa
>crashed Alexandria's economy, haha whiteys BTFO
>confusing saharan Africans with sub-saharan Africans and saying that people like Ibn Batuta and Avicenna wuz kangz n sheeeit
>Egyptposting in general

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>>52969582
The myth first refered to some vaguely asian land, that's why the first contender to Prester John was a Khan.

>>52968228
not sure if anyone suggested it earlier in the thread but you could start out the adventure by making the pcs a ragtag group of knights who are sent from outremer to africa to find Prester John's kingdom and forge an alliance between him and the king of jerusalem against the saracens.

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>>52968228

Actually, we know a lot about the arab world, which was northern coastal africa and parts of western asia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

Have fun!

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>>52969626

>>52969507
>what does /pol/ say
DEUS VULT

>what does reddit say
You're a racist for killing these poor oppressed African kings you imperialist fascist nazi bigoted scum, now I'll never find someone to sexually satisfy my wife.

>/leftypol/
Niggers are spooks anyway

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>>52969642

>>52969626
Aari cute
Amhara perfidious chaos worshipper
Bacha cute but kind of aaaayy
Basketo same
Bena same
All the rest 2 spooky

>>52969651
maybe im looking at the wrong parts of reddit but I expected more pseudo-intellectualism than straight up, well, whatever than was

>>52968228
They are in the wrong. Your idea is fantastic and I would def play that.

>>52969673
/pol/ fucked reddit hard over the past two years. For example, the space subreddit got mad that NASA was going back into space because it was under Trump's orders.

>>52969673
Perhaps that statement was more in line with tumblr. The only contact I've had with reddit is them absolutely infesting /pol/ with the Trump circlejerk.

>>52969703
i can see that being a thing, but how is that related to /pol/?

>>52969703
>being mad about space

I don't care if fucking Hitler ordered it, as long as we aren't burning jews to fuel the rockets we need to get fucking back into fucking space

Unless Trump gets on a rocket himself no one will associate him too greatly with whatever NASA pulls off, even today JFK is just remembered for the End of Decade promise and not much else. The President is an enabler, the Buzz Aldrin's are more important.

>>52969719
say what you will about Trump cultists they are definitely not SJWs

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>>52969654

>>52969728
Because /pol/ has basically been raiding reddit 24/7 since Trump announced his presidency (/r/The_Donald was made as a /pol/ colony to disrupt Bernie and Hillary's subreddits aka the bulk of their online base).

wow this thread got derailed quickly

Shit now I want a King Solomon's Mines/She game. Darkest Africa, the Noble Savage, shamanic magic, lost cities, hidden civilizations.....
Beats the same old Not!Europe dungeon crawl any day.

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>>52969754

>>52969755
but why would that make reddit turn into tumblr

>>52969762
Mostly by the act of expressing suprise at the lack of derailment.

There is probably a lesson in there somewhere.

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>>52969776

>>52969783
Because in response to the constant raiding, reddit mods and admins went off the deep end. For example, if you try to post a neutral or pro-Trump article in /r/news or /r/politics, your post is deleted and multiple times could resort in a ban. The administrators of reddit themselves were fucking around with stuff I don't understand because I'm not a redditor in order to get /r/T_D out of their website.

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>>52969815

>>52969783
Polarization, the more one political side pushes to an extreme it becomes more and more likely their opponents push to the opposite extreme.

>>52969556
There's also a lot of non-magical early healing techniques you can draw on.

For instance, Ancient civilizations as far back as Egypt knew that honey was an antibacterial (despite not knowing what bacteria were). And maggot-therapy is a proven way of curing the early stages of gangrene on wounds.

You PC's would be more likely to die from their injuries of course, but some players will find that fun.

>>52968835
>Piranhas also eating people alive.
Piranhas are actually not that dangerous, only re-bellies get aggressive and that's only when their rivers dry up and someone basically steps right on top of them

>>52969849
Luckily for /pol/, their extreme left counterparts aren't as competent as they are (yet).

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>>52969876
>the left is capable of anything vaguely resembling competence
Lost it.

>>52969920
thats a blatant troll you retard

>>52969507
Tumble: are you black? Are you certified black? Have you been properly raised in a black community? Which one, some of those are full fake black people.
OK, you're black. You may acknowledge what 1200's Africa was like without being a racist for knowing about it existing.

>>52969950
Nah those are legit. You can go see them on /r/anarchism I believe.

>>52969792
that lesson being: don't poke the hornet's nest?

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>>52968835
>>52969866
Piranhas are south american, seus gringos malucos.

Plus, their fame is mostly because we starved some of them for when Roosevelt visited.

Our pink dolphins eat piranhas like popcorn, they are as understimated as regular dolphins.

>>52969966
just because it actually got posted doesn't mean it was serious or genuinely believed

>>52969957
>Tumble
for some reason that's funny to me and I don't know why

>>52970002
I believe those accounts had a history and were legit accounts.

>>52970025
link or fake

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>>52969950
You want me to go on?

>>52970081
sure

>>52970054
Just for you big guy
https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/4pzglc/multiple_stabbings_reported_at_neonazi_event_in/d4s7vvx/

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>>52969755
As one who's browsed a lot of fucking /pol/, it it exactly the opposite. Bernouts didn't have a cult of personality to follow since the old jew got fucked over by his own party, so they migrated to Trump. Ever since then, /pol/ has been their little sekrit klub, and even after the election they're still fucking here. There's so many of them, and they didn't follow the golden rule of lurk before posting. They only understood the culture of /pol/ at the surface level, and it takes more lurking then usual to understand old /pol/. Like many on the site, they are unable to understand the concept of irony, and take everything we said as completely serious. They genuinely believe in this meme magic bullshit (which, in fact, is just a massive case of confirmation bias) and that Donald Trump can do no wrong, even when he does wrong. They just blindly lap up everything that gets posted on /pol/ like the left does with CNN, MTV, and Huffington Post.

Don't believe me? Just hop on /pol/ and search up the Trump General, then make a post there slamming reddit and watch them froth at the mouth. this is the only place on 4chan where you will be genuinely attacked for insulting reddit. I hate them all.

PLEASE STOP DISCUSSING STUPID EUROPEAN/AMERICAN PEOPLE FROM REALITY AND GO BACK TO DISCUSSING AFRICAN FANTASY

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>>52970089
Have one on the house.

>>52970104
k the upper body fascism guy is a troll but the guy after is legit

>>52970124
it's far too late for that now

>>52970125
seen it before what kind of plebian do you take me for

Well this thread was cool while it lasted I guess

>>52970002
>NUHHHH NUHHHH we aren't that retarded WE SWEAR ITS JUST A FALSE FLAG NUHHHH

Lol ok retard.

>>52970179
Making a thread like this always ends the same way.

>>52970175
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iobAHoIbCkc
Is this an actual leftist I'm talking with?

>>52970192
dumbass im not even a leftist but thats a level of stupid that requires skepticism

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>>52970179

Someone just HAD to point out how amazing it was that this thread hadn't degenerated into /pol/-degeneracy. The spell was broken.

Thanks, anon.

>>52970228
it was going fine until >>52969454 decided to jinx it

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>>52968228
So here's what you have to do OP

Sit your players down very calmly, and ask them to trust you. You're not racist, and they know this; they should abandon any preconceptions they have and they should trust you to portray the source material in a balanced and respectful manner.

If this isn't enough for them, get better friends. Hopefully ones with thicker skin.

>>52970229
no fuck you why would you think i was

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>>52970239
>first mention of /pol/ is some guy screeching about ye olde /pol/ boogeyman
>fucking pol derailing threads
Good job.

>>52970295
we did this

>>52970288
I confuse myself easily, nice Hitler dubs by the way.

>>52970295
"Wow, /pol/ hasnt derailed the thread yet." isnt an invitation.

>>52970340
let's be real it kinda is for all practical purposes

>>52970348
It isnt, /pol/ just uses it to justify ruining threads.

>>52970348

L O N D O N
O
N
D
O
N

>>52970373
thats why i said for all practical purposes. maybe it shouldnt be but it does objectively cause them to do it

>>52970381
what does this mean im confused

Why has nobody posted the african culture tribalism bush greentext yet?

>>52970330
>Hitler dubs
we are officially /pol/ now

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>>52970348
>autistic screeching about thing
>WHY ARE YOU REACTING WHAT THE FUCK STOP DERAILING
Good on ya ya absolute wanker.

>>52970192
>calling something a false flag is okay when /pol/ does it but it's just retarded when the left does it
okay

>>52970492
im confused what are you trying to say

>>52970513
til literal arson and murder is equivalent to saying stupid things on reddit

>>52970513
It's okay to call put a falseflag as long as you are right.
And the left haven't got a very good track reccord of ever being right.

First post mentioning /pol/ was crying about muh /pol/ bogeyman. I'll just point that out.

>>52970553
>call put a falseflag
what

>>52970576
and was quickly proven to be self-fulfilling

>>52970576
The fact every single Africa thread ends in political shitflinging unrelated to tabletop games proves him right.

Wait, I was searching up creatures from African folklore,
Groot-slang is a elephant headed snake,
Tokoloshe are like douchebag chad drawfs
And something about gorgons...

>>52970424

It's an /int/ meme due to autism being wordfiltered into london.

>>52970632
this one was fine until someone mentioned that it was fine and acted surprised

>>52970632

Everything was fine until >>52969454 dicked it all up for us by jinxing us. Thanks, >>52969454, ya idiot.

>>52970636
why the fuck would they do something that retarded and stupid

>>52970657
And it'll still be fine when we stop mentioning it.

>>52970634
>Tokoloshe
Don't even get me started on those things. They're scary motherfuckers holy shit.

>>52970733
baka desu senpai

>>52970738
nah its kinda too late at this point, too many people will note the shitflinging on their way down the thread and feel compelled to join in

>>52970729
we could have not taken the bait but that would have been far too reasonable and not stupid

>>52970750
the fuck does this mean

London is actually a /fit/ meme because some tripfag wanted to get laid and kept spamming London in a femanon's thread to know if she was near where he lived. Turned out the femanon was a trap. The tripfag was never heard of again.

>>52970895
(s)mh (t)bh (f)am

>>52970895
Means this site is run by raist idiots.

>>52970914
smհ tbհ senpai

>>52970958
dammit only two worked fuck me

>>52968228
Sounds like they're full of the "soft bigotry of low expectations".

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>>52970634
Let me tell you about the Tikoloshe. Keep in mind that this explanation comes from Mashona mythology, as that is the mythology I am familiar with.


A Tikoloshe (or Tokoloshe) is like a hybrid between a golem, gremlin, genie, and devil. They're short, imp-like creatures constructed from animal corpses and stuffed sacks, and animated by a witchdoctor by inviting an evil spirit to rest inside of it. Witchdoctors do this to deal with those who have angered them, sending the Tikoloshe to torment the victim.

When bound, the Tikoloshe is at its most dangerous. It can grant wishes to whomever owns it, but will twist these wishes to bring death, disease, and misfortune on the wisher. It is at this time that the Tikoloshe is also the most malicious; it utilizes its incredible cunning to trick its foe, and often uses magic to become invisible to to change shape. Bound Tikoloshes will often make outrageous demands of those they are bound too, such as for gold or the blood of virgins, and back these demands with threats of death, misfortune, curses, and other calamities.

When unbound, the Tikoloshe is less dangerous by by no means less evil. An unbound Tikoloshe will spread chaos and confusion wherever it goes, spreading misfortune as it pleases. It will scare schoolchildren, steal or spoil food, or cause bad luck. Its favourite victims are those who are asleep, and the Tikoloshe will often kill people in their sleep, or eat their toes while they sleep, or cause sleeping women to fall pregnant. This can be avoided by sleeping on raised beds, with bricks under its legs.

The only way to stop a Tikoloshe is to appease (good idea) or coerce (very bad idea) its creator witchdoctor into dispelling it, or to have a second witchdoctor exercise an area of Tikoloshes.

>>52968228
Unfortunately your friends are fags that hate fun so probably nothing you could do would please them.

Still if you wanted to give it a shot I'd be sure to mention kingdoms like Ethiopia or Ghana.

I feel like this did not actually happen OP.

>>52970115
>old /pol/
What, like /new/?

>>52971152
what are you talking about there is no /new/

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>>52971152
/pol/ without t_d faggorty.

>>52971187
There used to be a board called /new/

>>52971197
but there is still no board called /new/ also fuck off nazi i hope you enjoy the prospect never actually winning at anything

>>52971197
Have you tried 8gag /pol/?

>>52971248
8fag is a honeypot

>>52971197
I don't understand what this image is even supposed to try to convey.

>>52971197
I feel like that's just what was already there, just amplified. I have a hard time thinking of any old /pol/.

I guess like Ron Paul /pol/ was old /pol/, that was different from what's there today.

>>52971264
reddit loved Ron Paul tho, so if T_D isnt old pol then how does that stack up

>>52971087
>or cause sleeping women to fall pregnant
I swear to god every culture on earth has its own unique way of explaining bastard children

>>52971260
its supposed to convey that the poster is a retarded stormfag with nothing worthwhile to say

>>52971258
And 4chan isn't? Hiroshimoot as as much dirt on his hands as cripplekike does.

>>52971306
yeah but if youre here reading this its too late for that better not give someone else your shit too

>>52971278
I don't know. I don't mainboard or visit /pol/ very often especially now it's larger than /b/-sized and I never visit reddit.

I just remember /pol/ around that period being substantially different in content and threads than it is today. Whereas like, immediately pre-election /pol/ and election /pol/ and post-election /pol/ are mostly the same but just differ in the number of voices.

>>52971306
I wish moot hadn't left.

>>52971228
> enjoy the prospect never actually winning at anything
Have you been living on a deserted island for the last five years?
The pendulum is swinging right faster than the during the interbellum.

>>52971320
>liking joot
fuck off nigger

>>52971320
>I wish moot hadn't left
Ha! He had more shit on his hands than both of 'em combined.

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>>52971293
>teh absolute state of my sides
Go back to prasising daddy trumps underwater warmahordes and le based blackmen or whatever it is you spend your time doing.

>>52971356
right in the civic/cultural sense, your nazi bullshit is never coming back no matter how hard you try.

>>52971402
have fun losing, whens the last time an ethno-nationalist accomplished anything? civic and cultural nationalism rising but you're still just as stuck in the dumpster as ever, as it should be

>>52971402
Goddamn you're desperate.

>>52971403
In the US maybe, I have rightwing deathsquads running around over here.

>>52971433
where?

>>52971373
I don't care about "honeypots" I just felt 4chan was much better managed when moot was the one doing it.

>>52971451
then you clearly weren't paying attention

>>52971451
That's fair. I miss 2011-era 4chan.

>>52971197
>>52971402
>when you dream every night about le day of le rope before crying yourself to sleep but you're too fat to walk outside and don't know how to tie a knot

>>52971428
Nigger Duterte just went after the Rothschilds.
>>52971432
I'll take "a profound lack of arguments" for 500, Alex.

>>52971502
2011 4chan was a cringeworthly shit festival

>>52971529
and how is Duterte ethno?

>>52971529
>w-why a-a-aren't you g-g-giving m-me an a-a-argument t-t-to m-my non-a-argument p-pay a-a-attention t-t-t-t-to m-m-m-m-m-m-m-me ;_;

>>52971557
okay i agree with you overall but that's just pathetic you can do better

>>52968401
>black people
Barely, Ethiopians are basically just one-step removed from Caucasoids. I remember seeing a shitton of European princes that married Ethiopian brides, and their children were just lily white.

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>>52971528
>when you force your mom to drive you to pro trump evens and try to interact with people trough memes

>>52968472
Either Prestor John or King Solomon's Mines, I'd guess.

>>52968478
>evil because they're Muslim
Well, if the shoe fits...

>>52971530
No, that was 2007 era. post 2011 was the goldilocks period after the "for teh lulz" era, but before we all got really jaded.

>>52971557
Goddamn you're desperate.

>>52971597
i know what i meant. the current shitflinging is tiring but 2013-2014 was the real golden age

>>52971584
if your gonna bait at least make the age of the cherrypick picture match the age of the le greentext person

>>52971216
what was it like and why isnt is there now

>>52971549
You mean aside from being elected on what is basicallya national socialist platform?

>>52971644
You realize that guy probably lives with his mom?

>>52971678
non-ethnic natsoc though

>>52971713
fuck you anus nigger

>>52971720
I don't know, he doens't seem to keen on filipino muslims and refuses to let foreigners buy land.

>>52971734
fuck you kikedick

>>52971739
muslims are cancer by any standard and not letting foreigners own part of your country is just common sense

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>>52971734
>>52971755
Oh wow, is it that time already?

/pol/ needs to go back

What the fuck happened to this thread?

>>52971739
Just because he's threatened to have ISIS collaborators not only executed but personally feast on their livers doesn't make him ethno. It makes him pure based kino. If you have cancer, you don't pretend to accept it or smile and talk about how it's benign right now. You excise the tumor to preserve the rest of the body.

>>52971771
/pol/ needs to learn subtlety. That's all.

>>52971785
Someone said "gee, there hasn't been much shitposting yet," which inevitably devolved into shitposting.

>>52971767
what are you talking about

>>52971792
>It makes him pure based kino.
what

>>52971755
i will murder your family

>>52971801
Why would someone say that? There is no conceivable way that WOULDN'T devolve into shitposting.

>>52971771
il make u go back to ur mom

>>52971852
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yyAgk9der4

>>52971852
People are stupid sometimes, and say stupid things they end up regretting.
's why forgiveness is important

>>52971887
Also this.

>>52971916
Never blame on malice what can easily be blamed on stupidity.

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>>52971840
I will turn your family into lampshades.

>>52971928
Fair enough, deleted.

>>52971916
Pretty shit.

t. /pol/ack vulture

>>52971943
no u wont u fucking fag nigger kike cunt retard shit fucker il end you u bitch nigger fag i hope you die

wow huh this sure ended up being a great thread didn't it

>>52971949
Yeah, probably, like I said to the other guy which is why I deleted.

>>52968228
Have them play as Muslim crusaders. Because apparently brown people killing black people isn't racist.

>>52971961
The first 50 or so posts were actually pretty good tbհ.

>>52971987
I mean, it's an option. But a full party of CE rapevangelists sounds like a pretty edgy campaign. You went from risking it being misconstrued as racist to basically playing FATAL.

>>52971960
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

>>52971987
DURKA DURKA MOHAMMED JIHAD LELELELELELELE

>>52972008
You could play them LE, after all: you don't have kill them if they convert on the spot and aren't Jewish or Christian.

>>52972010
I sexually Identify as John Cena. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of defending my WWE championship at WWE SUPERSLAM. People say to me that a person being John Cena is Impossible and I'm fucking retarded but I don't care, You Can't See Me. I'm having Vince McMahon inject me with Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect. From now on I want you guys to call me "Champ" and respect my right to Five Knuckle Shuffle and Never Give Up. If you can't accept me you're a cenaphobe and need to check your #1 Contendership. Thank you for being so understanding.

>>52971197
Go back to your internet trailer park, stormweenie.

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>>52971104

>>52972077
Fuck you. What exactly is your endgame anyway? How does civic nationalism not just turn into the same shit we had before, with all the same weaknesses. Ethno-nationalism is the only lasting solution.

>>52972077
Go back to your political potty training.

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>>52968228
I don't get what's so racist about it

Warriors will still use swords, shields, and chainmail until you reach the jungle regions

>>52971671
It was literally /pol/ and it got shut down because it was turning into /stormfront/, except unlike when he did it to /n/, moot took too fucking long and so there was enough users to hit critical mass for them to start spamming everywhere until they got their board back.

>>52972182
That doesn't even make sense, try harder idiot.

>>52972179
Ethnic nationalism is pride in your race. Civic Nationalism is pride in your nation.
One is nationalism, one is Tumblr-tier identity politics.

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>>52972224
aight buddy let me spell it out for you.
Civic nationalist, like the guy above said will inevitably land us in the exact same shit we are in now.
>>52972239
>identity is bad

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If you're going for fantasy counterparts

>Big cavalry empire(s) based on trade in the savanna/desert fringe
>City states hidden in the jungle on the coast
>Hermit kingdom with a weird religion in the high mountains
>Seafaring trader cities along the coast of the gentle sea
>Tall cattle herding warriors with giant shields and spears
>Pygmies
>Bushmen
>Ravenous cannibals of the great jungle

>>52972239
What defines a nation if not its people? What, other than globalist tier "Because I say I am" makes a Russian a Russian and not a Thai or a Brazilian?

>>52972239
So there only 4-5 Nations in the world then

Got it

>>52972282
Identity politics are bad.
Nice strawman, stormweenie.

>>52972282
How exactly? Civic nationalism doesn't mean we ignore degeneracy or marxist subversion, it just means we don't circlejerk about who looks like us while we're doing it.

>>52972291
Exactly. What defines its people; its values, or its genetics?

>>52972326
If you seriously think values exist independent of biology you need to do some more reading.

>>52972291
>What defines a nation if not its people? What, other than globalist tier "Because I say I am" makes a Russian a Russian and not a Thai or a Brazilian?

'Nations' are outdated BS suitable only for old-world worshiping Eurofags. Colonial countries like the US are post-national, in that what defines a 'person' is tied to citizenship and culture.

Stop defining shit based on blood or keep living in he past, it's your choice Euro-trash.

>>52972312
Wait, where did you get that from? That's a total non-sequitur.

desu I actually think you nationalist guys are on to something sometimes but as a gay mulatto I know I'm pretty high on the "day of the rope" pecking order no matter what I do so I'm pretty disinclined to vote against my interests on that one

>>52972291
Culture, upbringing, the entire fucking circumstances they've been surrounded in since birth. You know, little things. Not possibly relevant.

Does someone need to remind everyone this is not actually /pol/?

>>52972348
>If you seriously think values exist independent of biology
They do. It's instincts that are dependent on biology, and no matter how loudly Nietzsche complains, instincts are to be (for the most part) repressed.

>>52972317
>politics based on identity are bad
>idenitity is bad
>>52972365
Look at how that worked out for yo, fucking top tier social stability you've got going on there.
Race and nation are inseparable, nobody is going to up and abandon his people because he put a foot on some magic soil or becasue of a piece of magic paper.

>>52972348
Considering that "values" are entirely cultural and culture has no rooting is bioligy, yes.

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>>52972413
This seems pretty normal for /tg/, tbqh

>>52972365
>post-national
Are you not hearing yourself? And defining things on citizenship? When a high political official could declare that the entire world had something overnight it's not a good basis for true nations.

>>52972418
Ideally maybe but look at how that actually works out. It's not what happens. In a perfect world this would be workable but we don't live in a perfect world, and in our world, different people are, surprise surprise, different.

>>52972427
Nice strawman, stormweenie.

>>52972427
Race and nation are not inseparable, the entirety of history proves that. Poland has as much genetically in common with India as France but I think we all know which one of those it's closer to.

>>52972367
Only races can be nations

So logically there's only Niggerville, Crackerbarrel, ChingChongMongLand, and Abbostan

>>52972536
That's under a bullshit American view of what race is. Race=Nation, no matter how hard you try to subvert it by redefining words.

>>52972439
Jesus. At least with this shitshow it's pretty clear how it got from there to here but I have no fucking clue what must have happened in that one.

>>52972494
Not really sure what you are trying to say.
Poland has some sort of tatar admixture from the steppe rape train, but then again that's not all that uncommon in eastern europe.

>>52972476
Goalposts, but whatever.

It will worked because it's already worked in the past. Don't worry, I'm not gonna give you the "rome had citizens from all over the empire" BS. I'm talking about the Assyrians, who forced conquered people to disperse throughout their empire to various other provinces instead of remaining as a sedentary vassal population. It turns out, if you handle an influx of people in small numbers, or in such a way that they don't form into ghettoized sedentary communities, they integrate quite well.

It works on a modern scale too. As long as you control immigration and keep minority populations from resisting acculturation, you end up with people who speak your language and share your values.

>>52972603
Indo-Europeans, there's a reason they're named that. Poland and India both have up to 40% descent from them, and France is almost entirely Western European native, while Poland is Indo-European, Anatolio-Tyrsenian and only a bit Euro-Native.

>>52972566
Race: "a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits"

Nation: "a territorial division containing a body of people of one or more nationalities and usually characterized by relatively large size and independent status"

Stop trying to redefine words.

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>>52972595
Yeah, but that was almost 300 posts. Look at what can happen with less than 100

>>52972608
Except that the Assyrians literally did that as a way to try and destroy cultures. Is that what you're advocating for now?

>>52972566
You just said only ethnic nationalism exists

And that race = ethnicity

So by extension, there's only 4 nations

Caucasian

Negroid

Mongoloid

Australoid

If we're using the old model

>>52972624
Okay please tell me you know what happened there.

>>52972282
>identity is bad

It's usually based on shallow, irrelevant, irrational and/or misconceived ideas that serve mainly to give an individual a superficial sense of validation. It also allows individuals to try to claim some sort of credit or reflected glory from the achievements of people they identify with.

It's therefore usually pretty pathetic, and all the "muh pride" in the world won't change that.

>>52972633
That's an overly broad category, you could label civic nationalism with the same thing by saying there's only European, African, Asian, or American. Race has subdivisions just like anything else.

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>>52972632
Basically? Obviously the culture of those entering hte country is gonna be destroyed/damaged. That is what acculturation/assimilation is, after all.
I think Spencer called it Peaceful Ethnic Cleansing, but dont' quote me on that.

>>52972649
I don't know, man. I just have the the 'caps

>>52972622
>Nation: "containing one or more nationalities"
Are you seeing the blatant contradiction?

>>52972617
>France is almost entirely Western European native
Indo-European steppe tribes invaded most of Europe and left their genetic trace in most peoples except for some odd ones out like Sardinians and Basques.
Modern French are the descendants of Gallo-Romans, Franks, and Celts, all of whom had some Indo-European ancestry.

>>52972679
And that's exactly why we shouldn't do it. Assimilation is a globalist meme, we shouldn't want people to abandon their heritage.

>>52972673
>overly broad
How? Even the pseudo scientists of yore agreed that there are only 4 races

Civic nationalists consider a nation something which must be actively participated in

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>>52972691
You were saying?

>>52972690
Ask Merriam-Webster. That's where I ctrl-c'd the definitions from.

>>52972660
People who circlejerk about their heritage without following in its path are shitstains, but following in its path is literally the purpose of life.

>>52972617
France is overwhelmingly R1b, the oldest known bearer of which came from the proto-indp european Samara culture.
Poland is like 57% of the also indo european r1a.

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>>52972726
How about these hot pixels?

>>52972633
>old model
The “model” (definition) you describe is very recent, and co-existed with older definitions of “race” well towards the end of the 19th century.
“Race” used to mean any group sharing a common heritage and as such distinct from other groups. The super-races you describe qualify, but so would Japanese (Yamato) and Norwegians, Bavarians and Silesians, or even extended families. Concentric circles, basically.
I have an early 20th century biography of Otto von Bismarck here that even refers to his overall lineage as a “race” (which is technically accurate).

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>>52972772
Right, so Central Africans are European too. (Look south of Lake Chad)

>>52972808
The ones that give France more in common with Nigeria than Poland?

>>52972815
>R1b-V88, a subclade specific to sub-Saharan Africa, is found in 60 to 95% of men in northern Cameroon.

>>52972718
You are calling them pseudoscientists and relying on their beliefs in the same sentence.

>>52972831
>humans have more in common with niggers than slavs
Sounds about right.

>>52972815
If it originates from the pontic caspian steppe cultures it's indo-european.
V88 is litteraly unheard of in europe.

>>52972840
Which means?

RACEPOSTERS GO BACK TO /POL/ REEEEEEEE

>>52972869
It means that it is exclusive to a small population of chadic speakers in the central sahel who are believed to have migrated from the levant some 7000 years ago.

>>52972859
In any case, R1a is closer to itself than R1b so Poland still has a stronger connection with Afghanistan than France.

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>>52972869
As you can see from this tree, they diverge very early on.

>>52972959
Still later than R1b and R1a do, meaning that those people in Africa are closer to the French than the Polish are.

>>52972942
>what are tocharians
Kill yourslelf my dude.

>>52972712
Not their heritages: their values. there's a difference between the two.

>>52968284
First response: best response.

>>52972989
How it came to be that way doesn't change that it is. If you'll remember, my point is that the wider genetic gap between Poland and France than Poland and Afghanistan doesn't stop them from having a significantly smaller cultural one.

>>52972974
Poland is actually 17% r1a...

>>52972999
>we don't want them to abandon their heritage and culture
>just the parts that determine 90% of how they live their lives
What is this I can't even.

>>52973017
>In Europe, the R1a1 sub-clade is found at highest levels among peoples of Eastern European descent, with 50 to 65% among Sorbs, Poles, Russians and Ukrainians.[68][69][11] In the Baltic countries R1a1a frequencies decrease from Lithuania (45%) to Estonia (around 30%).[70] Levels in Hungarians have been noted between 20 and 60%.[71][72][11][73] - Wikipedia

I like how nobody's mentioned the other nine haplogroups knocking around Europe.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml

The good stuff is down at the bottom, the combined maps of Italo-Celtic and Germanic haplogroups.

>>52972712
Why? Cultures are born, live, and die.

It's kinda sad but it's not the end of the world. One day people just realize they prefer how another group lives compared to their own way.

>>52973051
Yeah, meant to write r1b.

>>52973085
You don't really get nationalism do you?

>>52973029
>90% of their lives
Where the fuck do you live where 90% of your culture is incompatible with the nation? Cause that's what we're talking about here. Shit like fasting during ramadan or eating lamb on St. George's Day is perfectly fine. Those aren't anyone's values.

>>52973092
In which case, that African population is 80% R1b. France is about 70%. Both significantly greater than 17%. Greater enough to make an un-overturnable numerical majority of common descent in fact.

>>52968356

Track down the pdfs of Nyambe African Adventures and Spears of the Dawn.

>>52973109
I didn't say it was. I'm saying that writing off values as discardable like that will lead to situations where it is. Think about the difference between the modern US as a whole and a tribal nomadic society in East Africa.

>>52973127
Anon, did you know... R1a and R1b both originate with R1*?

>>52968228
That's why I absolutely avoid coloreds in my settings, there's always a /pol/ and a /leftypol/ faggots ready to ruin it with their bullshit.

Well this thread has been about as derailed as it can be. Congratulations, you're all a bunch of fucking retards.

>>52973147
>I'm saying that writing off values as discardable like that will lead to situations where it is
>Implying that's always a bad thing
Oh god, please tell me you're not one of those cultural relativists who thinks that "all cultures are beautiful" or other horse shit like that.

>>52973157
Yes, but any part of R1b is closer to any other part of R1b than to any part of R1a.

>>52973127
Didn't you see this post? >>52972959
“R1b” isn't a single, eternally unchanging fixture. V88 diverged from the rest of R1b groups thousands of years before carriers of a different kind of R1b invaded Europe from the Eurasian steppe.

>>52973179
The only alternative inevitably leads to globalism by any logical interpretation.

>>52973016
Sctually you are using outdated findings.
Most hazara belong to R2 or Q.
The Bashkir belong to R-152 or sQ1a1b

>>52969654
Is this like the quilted armor Aztecs wore?

>>52972959
>Y7777
Look at those digits.

>>52973192
Yes, but at the point where they diverged, R1b and R1a had already been separate for quite some time, and are therefore even more distinct than the sub-parts of R1b or R1a.

>>52973198
Then we're in agreement.
There are superior and inferior cultures, and for all intents and purposes the culture of the nation is the most superior culture. Thankfully, just because something is less than perfect doesn't mean that it's bad. Cultures that are less than perfect but acceptable are allowed, while cultures that are abominations are not allowed. People of these cultures are to be kept from making ghettoized communities where their inferior culture can fester, so that over a few generations they eventually adopt the dominant superior culture.

The system works.

>>52973199
It's 51% among the Pashtun, 47% among the Punjabis, and 72% among the Brahmin of Bengal.

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>>52969733
But anon.
What if a single Jew was enough for a full trip around the moon?

>>52968228
All of you are a bunch of fags, your friends absolutely suck, they are ignorant, retarded, and you shouldn't mix with them.

You are also stupid. Africa is boring as fuck and I would become a murderhobo in that setting. There is no reason for an European to respect an African and not do anything by force. America would have been a far greater choice, as its documented how veracious the Indians were. It could be a medieval Vietnam(plus the vast dangerous wildlife, including even plants).

Finally, the first response you got is the best post in the entire thread.

>>52973241
But then how would you determine who gets a "Nation"? Who decides what is acceptable?

>>52973099
I do

But it's still just an emotionally charged belief system divorced from reality

A spook

>A is the oldest of all Y-DNA haplogroups. It originated in sub-Saharan Africa over 140,000 years ago, and possibly as much as 340,000 years ago if we include haplogroup A00. Modern populations with the highest percentages of haplogroup A are the Khoisan (such as the Bushmen) and the southern Sudanese.

There are only rare and isolated cases of European men belonging to haplogroup A. Commercial tests have identified a few Scottish and Irish families (surnames Boyd, Logan and Taylor) all belonging to the same A1b1b2 (M13) subclade. This subclade is normally found in East Africa (Ethiopia, Sudan), but has also been found in Egypt, the Arabian peninsula, Palestine, Jordan, Turkey, Sicily, Sardinia and Algeria. It was certainly brought to Europe by Levantine people, be it during the Neolithic or later (Phoenicians, Jews, immigration within the Roman Empire).

Haplogroup A1a* (M31) has been found in Finland, Norway and eastern England. This subclade is normally found along the west coast of Africa (Guinea-Bissau, Cape Verde, Mali, Morocco) and could have come to Europe during the Paleolithic. Indeed a few percent of sub-Saharan admixture was found among ancient DNA samples from Mesolithic Scandinavia tested by Skoglund et al. (2012).

Boyds, Logans, and Taylors confirmed for BLACKED.

>>52973265
>spook
Okay you can fuck off now.

>>52973241
No culture is good or bad

Stop dealing in nonsense

>>52969530
Never heard of this before, how did missionaries manage to get to sub-saharan Africa back in those days?

>>52973293
Ethiopia was Christian before Rome was.

>>52973264
Whichever ones already exist in some form. It's difficult to create a culture from thin air, but thankfully we don't have to. To the society of France, the superior culture is French culture. to the society of The USA, American culture is superior.
If this sounds a lot like ethnostates, that's on purpose.

>>52973281
My culture is superior in every way to cultures where they hang gays and beat women. I know this because those things are bad, and my culture doesn't do that, therefore their culture is more bad than mine.

>>52973305
What about clearly distinct groups like the Basques, Dravidians, Tibetans, or Chechens? This sounds like a really roundabout way to justify the status quo.

>>52973277
Not an argument

>>52973352
Fair enough. So here's one for you. How is nationalism detached from reality when basically all science shows that humans are inherently tribal, and happier among an in-group?

>>52973322
What IS "bad"?

>>52973322
How do you know they're bad?

File: 1493316741984.png (278KB, 906x734px) Image search: [Google]

278KB, 906x734px

>>52968835
What >>52969866 and >>52969998 said.
You might make it part of some fucked-up gauntlet of traps a tribe set up to defend their lands.

>tribesmen chase party back to their boats
>hidden catches in the river capsize the vessels
>tribesmen release reserve of starved piranha into the river
>ravenous fish in the water, dozens of spears on land

>>52973328
Are you claiming that those groups don't deserve their own independent nations? Cause I think they do. Then it'd work the same for them as it does for France and The US.

>>52973347
>>52973393
>>52973413
You know why they're bad things, even if you can't vocalize exactly why. Don't be disingenuous.

But, gimme a moment, and I'll type out the complicated train of thoughts that eventually got me to the views I now hold.

>>52973443
Alright, good. They do deserve nations. But then if each distinct group deserves a nation that will include things you think are "Bad".

>>52973392
Because nationalism is about "should" rather than "is"

>>52973443
>>52973462
Ask the Turks, Chinese, and Israelis what they think and you'll get a completely different answer

>>52973464
What does that even mean? That's a ludicrously vague statement.

>>52973478
Don't be willfully ignorant. Intra-group vs inter-group is one of the only truly objective standards that can be applied.

>>52973462
Yes. It's not my problem is people want to have inferior cultures, as long as its not in my country. People have a right to be wrong.

>>52973478
I'm not Israeli, but I am Jewish. The palestinians deserve their own land, probably next to ours, but there's the whole issue of racial hatred that makes lasting peace almost impossible, so...

>>52973512
Then we're actually in full agreement. No nation should have to integrate the practices of another, and all nations deserve independence. You don't have to like what they do with it, in fact there's a case to be made that you shouldn't. But it looks like we do actually agree.

>>52973544
Yes, we just have a disagreement on what "integrate the practices of another" means.

>>52973568
Oh, what do you think it means?

>>52973579
That for practices to be integrated by the nation, they need to be practices that can't be ignored and must be acted upon (so much as the nation decides what can and can't be ignored).

For example, lets say my neighbours want to cook and eat samosas, or sell samosas in their family-owned restaurant. Since I live in a nation that doesn't care what its citizens eat, I can ignore that my neighbours are eating samosas. Similarly, if the samosas they make and sell in their restaurant do not pass health and safety requirements, that is when the practice needs to be rejected, since my nation does care if food being sold passes health and safety regulations.

>inb4 "that sounds a lot like the status quo"
No, it sounds like not throwing the baby out with the bathwater

>>52973393
>>52973413
Here's the train of thought I promised here >>52973443.


Okay. So, all views are subjective. Or rather, they're subjective enough that they can't be proven 100% objectively.

Like, if you say "murder is wrong because you should do unto others as you would want done unto you," (the golden rule) which is perhaps the most basic of moral statements, you end up with the question of "why is it right you do unto others as you want done unto you," which is a question that can't be proven 100%. Thing is, living with subjective morality sucks ass.

Luckily, when everything is subjective, the things we use to judge subjectivity and objectivity themselves become subjective. Good and Bad are subjective things, so I say here and now that the Golden Rule is Good™, and if you disagree with me you're Bad™, so I will not form a social contract with you or people like you.

I have now created a framework whereby arbitrary things can be declared to be good or bad, and these statements can be treated as subjective or objective as I see fit. Think of it like doublethink or dogma, but it doesn't suck.

So, I hereby declare that hanging gays for being gay is Bad™. Also, beating your wife for a reason other than self defense is also Bad™. Do you disagree with me?