/hwg/ - Historical Wargames General

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>Advanced Squad Leader
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/d9x0dbxrpjg48/Advanced_Squad_Leader
>Battleground WWII
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/cb83cg7ays4l1/Battleground_WWII
>Battlegroup
https://mega.nz/#F!SolyxarJ!GUg6zWBStfznr6BvYedghQ
>Black Powder
http://www.mediafire.com/download/o5x6blwoczojmfr/Black+Powder.pdf
>Bolt Action
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/n7jmdnlv1n0ju/Bolt_Action
>By Fire And Sword
https://mega.co.nz/#!jxgCWTYD!FCp52DAqIUc-EM-TsRsWv7fB92nJ3kkzKsNcD_urI5Q
>Fleet Series
https://mega.nz/#F!i1N3xZxL!C6fQ3Z8o2U0gtk5kdXuVcQ
>Hail Caesar
https://mega.nz/#F!XsVD0KgT!twB1NWiFE3aKXK_O1EZ4pA
>Impetus
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/28i9gevqws518/Impetus
>Modelling & painting guides
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/7b5027l7oaz05/Modelling_%26_Painting_Guides
>Next War (GMT)
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/eupungrg93xgb/Next_War
>Phoenix Command RPG
https://mega.co.nz/#F!b5tgXRwa!mzelRNrKPjiT8gP7VrS-Jw
>Saga
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/alj31go19tmpm/SAGA
>Twilight 2000/2013 RPG
https://mega.co.nz/#F!C9sQhbwb!NVnD4jvUn5inOrPJIAkBhA
>Wargaming Compendium
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cghxf3475qy46aq/Wargaming+Compendium.pdf
>Warhammer Ancient battles 2.0
http://www.mediafire.com/download/uttov32riixm9b0/Warhammer+Ancient+Battles+2E.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ta7aj1erh7sap1t/Warhammer+Ancient+Battles+-+Armies+of+Antiquity+v2.pdf
>Warhammer Historical
https://mega.nz/#F!LxkElYYY!FJB5miNmlWZKMj2VfSYdxg
>Warmaster Ancients
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cifld8bl3uy2i5g/Warmaster+Ancients.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3emyvka11bnna1b/Warmaster+Ancient+Armies.pdf

Desired scans :
Rank and File supplements
Harpoon 3 & 4 supplements
Force on Force supplements
Hind Commander
At Close Quarters
War and Conquest

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28th April in military history:

357 – Emperor Constantius II enters Rome for the first time to celebrate his victory over Magnus Magnentius.
1192 – Assassination of Conrad I, King of Jerusalem, two days after his title to the throne is confirmed by election. The killing is carried out by Hashshashin.
1503 – The Battle of Cerignola is fought. It is noted as the first battle in history won by small arms fire using gunpowder.
1792 – France invades the Austrian Netherlands, beginning the French Revolutionary War.
1796 – The Armistice of Cherasco is signed by Napoleon Bonaparte and Vittorio Amedeo III, the King of Sardinia, expanding French territory along the Mediterranean coast.
1887 – A week after being arrested by the Prussians, Alsatian police inspector Guillaume Schnaebelé is released on order of German Emperor William I, defusing a possible war.
1944 – World War II: Nine German E-boats attacked US and UK units during Exercise Tiger, the rehearsal for the Normandy landings, killing 946.
1952 – Dwight D. Eisenhower resigns as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO.
1952 – The United States occupation of Japan ends as the Treaty of San Francisco, ratified September 8, 1951, comes into force.
1952 – The Sino-Japanese Peace Treaty is signed in Taipei, Taiwan between Japan and the Republic of China to officially end the Second Sino-Japanese War.
1965 – American troops land in the Dominican Republic to "forestall establishment of a Communist dictatorship" and to evacuate U.S. Army troops.
1970 – Vietnam War: U.S. President Richard M. Nixon formally authorizes American combat troops to fight communist sanctuaries in Cambodia.
1975 – General Cao Văn Viên, chief of the ARVN, departs for the US as the NVA closed in on victory.
1978 – President of Afghanistan, Mohammed Daoud Khan, is assassinated in a coup led by pro-communist rebels.
1987 – American engineer Ben Linder is killed in an ambush by U.S.-funded Contras in northern Nicaragua.

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It is 514 years since the Battle of Cerignola was fought between Spanish and French armies, in Cerignola, near Bari in Southern Italy. Spanish forces, under Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba, formed by 6,300 men, including 2,000 landsknechte, with more than 1,000 arquebusiers, and 20 cannons, defeated the French who had 9,000 men; mainly heavy gendarme cavalry and Swiss mercenary pikemen, with about 40 cannons, and led by Louis d'Armagnac, who was killed.

Córdoba, called "El Gran Capitán" (The Great Captain), had many strategic advantages. He formed his infantry into new units called "Coronelías," that were the seed of the later Tercios. They were armed with a mix of pikes, arquebuses and swords. This type of formation had revolutionized the Spanish army.

The battle resulted in a heavy French defeat with the French reported to have lost around 2,000 men, Spanish losses amounting to some 500 men. The French wagon train and all of their artillery fell into the hands of the victorious Spanish troops. The end of the battle saw the first time a "call to prayer" (toque de oracion) was issued, when Córdoba, upon seeing the fields full of French bodies, ordered three long tones to be played and his troops to pray for all the fallen.

Cerignola marks the beginning of Spanish dominance on European battlefields until the defeat of Rocroi in 1643 and also marked the rise of pike and shot tactics. It is considered to be the first major battle won through the use of firearms, comparable to what was to occur in Japan later in the Battle of Nagashino in 1575.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ltrrxb4d2bgkxpb/Osprey+-+MAA+094+-+The+Swiss+at+War+1300-1500.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ytfh1y68tyf3j3z/Osprey+-+MAA+136+-+Italian+Medieval+Armies+1300-1500.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ubeel4byexb0ccb/Osprey+-+WAR+025+-+Italian+Militiaman+1260-1392.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/download/kbkpdlgvhccfean/Osprey+-+WAR+049+-+Landsknecht+Soldier+1486-1560.pdf

>>52958267
Moving into historical wargames from the likes of Warhams. Best companies for models? Especially good infantry? Fun painting opportunities/guides?

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>>52958454
just finished some Perry's Desert Rats. What era are you interested in?

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>>52958454
>Best companies for models? Especially good infantry?
Depends how much you want to pay! There's lots of quality manufacturers around but they cost according. One good idea is to get into 1:72 plastics, which are cheap and cover a huge range of periods.

>Fun painting opportunities
Landesknechts! The Napoleonic Wars! Aztecs! And so forth. The old /hwg/ rule of thumb is pick a period, pick a scale, pick a ruleset. You should really go for whatever appeals to you the most.

>>52958689
>The old /hwg/ rule of thumb is pick a period, pick a scale, pick a ruleset.

That cannot be repeated enough.

>>52958679
>>52958689
Was looking at modern war and late renaissance/early shot war. Maybe also World Wars. What are the best companies for catalogs to look through?

I quite like painting, so I was hoping for something that might have customization options. Like make up a modern nation and paint the colors accordingly. Not really "historical" at that point, I guess, but still.

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>>52958454
Take a look at Perry miniatures if you like painting. Eureka Miniatures and Specter Miniatures also have some nice 28mm figures.

What time period do you find interesting?

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>>52958789
>Was looking at modern war
>Like make up a modern nation and paint the colors accordingly
Imagi-nations (as they're called) are cool and pretty common in moderns wargaming. Especially with AK-47 Republic, a ruleset about modern African wars. There's also fullblown 6mm-scale divisional-level type stuff, where you could fit a whole corps on the table, and imagi-nations could be a thing there too (see: Tinytanks).

>>52958789
>Like make up a modern nation and paint the colors accordingly

That would be AK-47 Republic, a very tongue in cheek Cold War Africa rule set. It's designed for larger battles using smaller guys (10 or 15mm)

Modern there's Spoecter and Eureka I mentioned before or if you're willing to look at 20mm (and so can use 1/72 vehicle kits of which there are thousands of options) Under Fire Miniatures are excellent as are TQD miniatures. Zevezda has a limited range of plastic Cold War kits that are quite nice too

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>>52958842
>>52958863
And since you're new and maybe haven't gotten oriented yet, 1st and 2nd edition of AK47 republic are in the OP

>>>52953894
Wow those are nice

>>52958842
>>52958863
>>52958926
Looks like a good starting point. Thanks!

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>>52958454
Oh also the Boxer rebellion will give you the chance to paint a lot of different colorful figure types for the different nationalities, factions etc. I don;t know who makes good figures though.

>>52958789
Renaissance armies did not have uniforms, you can paint them however you want, for pretty much any country. Before the time of Louis XIV, the closest thing to uniforms were either commanders buying their own troops the same color clothing or mandating some sort of sash or something for identification, like Wallenstein did.

anybody here got a good pic dump of Byzantine soldiers from the 13th century? both post-imperial reformation and the preceding states like the Despotate of Epirus and the Empire of Nicaea?

>>52959153
What was the first time uniforms came in?

>>52959153
>>52960633

Didn't the Spanish Tercios have some kind of uniforms?

>>52960633
First English uniforms were the New Model Army in the ECW.

>>52960706
As far as I understand it, a Tercio is just an organizational unit in an army. So by that definition, yes, some would, because sometimes regiment commanders would buy their soldiers uniformed clothing. That isn't an army-wide uniform though.

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Luzon 1945 - The final liberation of the Philippines (Osprey Campaign 306)

Driven from the Philippines in 1942, General Douglas MacArthur returned three years later to force the Japanese off of its main island of Luzon. Containing the capital of Manila, vital natural resources as well as thousands of Allied prisoners of war, the triumph at Luzon would be a vital step on the road to victory as the Americans continued to island-hop their way towards the Japanese home islands. This new study details one of the hardest-fought campaigns of the Pacific War with Japanese fatalities alone on Luzon topping 200,000. Emphasizing the differences in Japanese and American strategy, and detailing the combat operations of the campaign, this volume tells the story of how MacArthur kept his promise to return and liberate the Philippines.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/y18d2b75oo3pd8j/Osprey+-+CAM+306+-+Luzon+1945.pdf

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I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I have to wonder what the advantage is of the maniple system other than flexibility. Maybe I'm stupid, but I kind of see a pretty big disadvantage in it.

The idea is to deploy your troops in three lines among a checkerboard system to allow for easy manouvering and at the same time allowing you to keep your second and third lines fresh if the battle goes sour, right? But why do this? If the enemy is equally numbered and throws their full forces into your lines, your men are now outnumbered 3-to-1 at the front and your enemies can easily surround the entire army, as most of your second and third ranks are nowhere near the real fighting. Wouldn't it make more sense to put both Hastati and Principes in the first line, keeping only a small minority of veteran Triarii in reserves just in case?

>>52962674

The Roman enemies Phalanxes usually deployed 8 (& usually more) deep. Romans deployed 4 deep (when in line) - so, all three lines were about 10 deep - not much more than the enemy.

Also, each Roman takes up some more room (frontage) than the Phalanxman, and the total front was (nearly) the same.

>>52962674
The rotation of men was a pretty vital aspect of the roman fighting machine, your troops are always fresh, and the enemy is constantly being worn down. Its a wonder what a few minutes rest can do in a battle.

Also the Romans tended to find things that worked well from other militarizes (and cultures) and incorporate them, they probably wouldn't implement something if it never worked in practice.

>>52962674
What you just described has nothing to do with the maniple system though.
To answer your question, because life isn't like a video game where you can see everything and perfectly coordinate all your forces. In a perfect world, yes having all your troops engaged is better than not - concentration of force is a huge part of military theory for a reason. however especially in the past, before information technology, coordination and poor information have always meant that having a fresh mobile reserve which can meet threats or exploit breakthroughs had always been more important than just hoping you can mob your opponent to death.

>>52963019

This is my main gripe with wargames: you see & know entirely too much.

Video games haven't made it any better, either: since they still let you know too much - even when all the requirements for some awesome fog-of-war are there.

>>52962674
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbSa9ZvSMaQ

>>52963084
I agree I've not played Bolt Action yet but while watching a demo game a guy put his americans into ambush mode in a forest and the german player just fired at them with his stug when they were meant to be hidden. Also stuff like snipers and MG teams in buildings, the opponent would just avoid that are even though his troops shouldnt know they're there.

I think if both players were to take a rough drawing of the table then mark on their copy where they've placed units before play, that would make it more interesting cause you'd think

>>52963366
*area

>>52963366

I'm mostly thinking about using markers with the unit (or non-unit) inscribed on the bottom.

With neither side knowing what's under the enemy's marker, if there are, like twice as many markers than units, and with having to reveal your own marker in order to find out what is it - I think the Scouting part of any game could be a whole lot better.

>>52963390

Like: you want to know what's in the village over there ('cause you know something is) - you gotta move your troops out of the woods and take a look.

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>>52963390
"Dummy" counters were always a great way of handling fog-of-war in Squad Leader, and it works on the tabletop too. I've seen an ACW game where units were represented by different-sized blue and grey wooden blocks, until they were 'identified' by an opposing ruin and the minis were then placed.

Pre-written orders was another sound idea that's been around a while. (Trying to simulate fog-of-war has occupied gamers since Featherstone - in the old days they used to kneel at the table edge and use literal line of sight. Don himself discusses several ways to deal with it in his Complete Wargaming). Players have to outline before the game what their units would be doing several turns ahead, and could only amend those orders once things were underway. (One thing about the Combat Mission series that I loved was the 30-second real time periods where you couldn't change your orders, so were required to think ahead and punished for careless decisions). It worked better for slower-placed stuff like 18th century and Napoleonic because of the generally shitty communications. This sort of thing was in the same vein as having the C-in-C in another room, issuing orders based on what his corps commanders were telling him.

>>52963084
While I somewhat agree with you, wargames generally aren't trying to exactly replicate the real thing. They are, at their core, games.

>>52963500

I'm not, exactly, trying to replicate the real thing, either.

It's just that, IMHO, games are a simplified, fast-paced shadows of the real thing they're meant to represent.

And, right now, games choose to represent the combat part of the battle & mostly ignore all the rest of it.
IMHO, the rest of it should be a bit more represented. (& Scouting is just a start)

Again, IMHO

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>>52963500
>They are, at their core, games.
Games concerned with war. "Wargame" implies equal parts war and game, but each game has its own balance. Harpoon and ASL have more war, BA and FoW have more game.

For of war is one of the most important elements of warfare. Ambushes are incredibly powerful, as are unexpected flank attacks. Knowing exactly where your enemy is makes recon meaningless - recon traditionally being one of the cornerstones of warfare. You can't attack an enemy unless you know where he is, and you won't know where he is without recon, or at least some kind of information.

That said, fog of war and limited command control are two of the hardest things to implement in a wargame, so its no surprise they get gleaned over in favor of something playable - not everyone has the time or inclination to play double blind with a referee, or mark up a map of the table with where their forces are deployed. True fog of war can't really exist without a referee, although blinds are an ok alternative.

Limited command control is easier to implement, but can often lead to frustration as players are used to being able to move or attack with any of their pieces, like in chess or really any boardgame. Having a unit that can't move of attack for the entire game, while realistic in some situations, is a total waste of time in a game - painting all those miniatures, learning the rules, rolling all the dice, all so a unit can do nothing. So most games try to find a balance between fun and historical accuracy.

>>52963770

This is what pisses me off about video (war)games - they are capable of all that, but the makers are so concerned about muh moneyz & pander to the casuals.

>>52958991
>dat smug shield

Building a demo board, bought a 1:48 scale C130 to use as the centre piece.

The board is going to be 4' square and the plane looks to be about 2' square ish once assembled. Good thing it's crashed so I it isn't just a giant LOS blocker

>>52962674
>but I kind of see a pretty big disadvantage in it.

What you "see" and "think" has nothing whatsoever to do with reality.

As a combat vet and former AIT instructor, I can safely say that high on the list of fantasies video game "trained" fools like you possess is COMMAND & CONTROL. Being a fool, you blithely assume perfect knowledge of the location of you forces and those enemy along with perfect control of the former.

One of my favorite parts of AIT was disabusing fools like you of the video game and paintball "tactics" they had "learned".

You've also failed to see how one side can concentrate it's entire force at the point of contact to achieve a 3-1 advantage and still have enough forces to wrap around the legion's flanks.

The manipular legion and it's offshoots worked very well for centuries and gave Rome mastery of the classical world. Given the same tech and other capabilities, no organizational system you can think of could do any better.

>>52964413
Going to break it in half or leave it more or less one piece?

>>52964465
Splitting it up into:

- Nose
- central wing area (raised complete wing, crumpled half wing)
- the rest of the half wing
- Tail section

I can neither confirm nor deny the initial inspiration was from a certain map in a certain call of duty game

>>52964436
This feels like a copypasta, is this a copypasta?

>>52962674
I've wondered the same thing. At Fraustadt(1706) the Saxon commander has two lines and the swedes have one. But when the swedes break through the first line the second line falters and runs away as well.

>>52963390
>I'm mostly thinking about using markers with the unit (or non-unit) inscribed on the bottom.
that's how we do it

>>52965703

Easy and quick, right?

Not to mention adds a whole lotta guesswork.
"Are those 10 markers on the right real units there to annihilate me if I weaken it, or is he just bluffing?"

>>52965675
The Swedes were also attacking from both flanks with cavalry.

It isn't hard to see why infantry surrounded on all sides with cavalry to their rear and no cavalry cover of their own fled and surrendered.

Anyone know where FFL symbols would be placed on tanks? For WW2?

Also, where the fuck can I find a 28mm M4A1 Sherman thats not 40 smackaroos? It's the most aesthetic sherman I know.

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>>52965983
>Anyone know where FFL symbols would be placed on tanks? For WW2?
The online Tanks Encyclopedia has a couple of pics, but other than googling around I could only suggest looking at the relevant Ospreys. You should be able to find some contemporary pics that would help.

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Found a copy of Decisive Battles of the English Civil War by the unfortunately named Malcolm Wanklyn for very cheap in a local book shop. It seems to sell itself as a reassessment of conventional narratives which raises some concern that maybe the author put agenda before accuracy, but I guess I'll find out when I read it.

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>>52966294
>Malcolm Wanklyn
Wonder if he's any relation to one of Britain's best WW2 sub aces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Wanklyn
I found this entry at the Surname Database illuminating:
>Recorded as Wank, Wanck, Wancke, the diminutive Wankel, the occupational Wankmuller (Germany), and in England as Wanklin, Wankling, and Wanklyn, all diminutives, this is a surname of pre 7th century Anglo-Saxon and early German origins. It has two possible meanings in its base forms, although as a compound such as Wankmuller, meaing a miller by a path, the options are greatly increased. The base form translations are either topographical and describe person who lived by a path or bye road (wank), or the same word used in a transferred sense as a medieval nickname for a person regarded by his friends or peer group, as having a fickel personality! In most countries in Europe, surnames from nicknames form one of the largest groups in the surname listings. Those surnames considered overly robust or obscene, of which there were many, have now disappeared, or have been replaced by gentrified versions.

>>52966409

Meh, he's a wanker any way you cut it.

>>52966409
The about the author section on the back doesn't mention much, only that he is an Emeritus Professor of History at the University of Wolverhampton.

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>>52966465
>Wolverhampton

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>>52966059
Thanks anon! Im working on an FFL platoon to go with (against?) my DAK and want my tanks to look cool.

Pic related WIP tank. Maybe not super accurate specific, but it is Warthunder accurate.

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>>52967123
More WIP. I had wanted originally wanted to use it for the obsolete vehicle event, since M8s were used in the french indochina war.

Buuut that clearly did not happen.

>>52965675
Aside from what's been mentioned, that's why training to do it reliably is a big deal - anyone can form up two lines, but knowing that people from the front rank are going to drop back and being able to handle it without panicking and breaking is a harder task.

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>>52966294
I was looking into reading this but had similar reservations. Also because those battles have all been covered a hundred times, and have been trying to find out more about all the random little skirmishes that are basically footnotes to the large engagements.
Best I've got so far is a timeline and a local (Hampshire unsurprisingly) history book that was actually really good for that sort of thing.

>>52970052
Hampshire this, Hampshire that! when will this Southern oppression end! Rise up my Northern brothers!

>>52970143
Up the People's Republic of Sheffield!

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>>52960633
>>52960706
>>52960749

In the "early modern" period (pretty much 1600-1700) most armies operated by "commissioning" a Colonel to raise a regiment of foot or horse. The crown would give him a lump sum, he would use that to hire men, buy them weapons, armour, rations, and uniforms (and keep the "left-over" funds as his personal fee, so the incentive was to cut costs as much as possible).

Generally, soldiers would be issued a certain number of yards of cloth, which would be sewn into clothing by their female relative(s). The cheapest way to do it was to buy all the same kind of cloth wholesale, so there would be a "blue" regiment, a "grey" regiment, etc. Red was one of the cheapest dyes, so it was very popular in all armies.

The ideal was to have a soldier issued with enough cloth for a coat, pants, hat, and money for hose and shoes. In practice, they often received the bare minimum for a small coat.

100% standardized colours was almost never a thing until WW1, because different branches (Line Inf, Grenadiers, Skirmishers, Light Inf) would often have different coloured uniforms (skirmishers were usually green or black, for instance), but from the TYW/ECW onward uniforms gradually became more standardized by nation, as the "commission" method became more standardized/centralized/nationalized.

I think the "colonel buying cloth for his regiment" system began gradually to be phased out in most nations beginning at the turn of the 18th century.

Pic related, Gustavus Adolphus attempted to standardize uniform colours for his army and to go after corrupt colonels who abused their commission, but with limited success

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>>52970163
They do like it up 'em alright.

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Gonna try and get this lot ready for a game next Sunday, anyone else working on anything this bank holiday weekend?

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>>52965675

This kind of proves the point of the Romans though. They put their least experienced in front, and the most experienced behind, so that the reserves are the most trained to cope with and avoid the disorder of retreating front-lines.

>>52962674

That said, IIRC it is not 100% certain that the Camillan/Polybian Roman army actually deployed as a checkerboard with gaps in the battle-line, there are convincing arguments for and against it, but they did at least have three lines even if they were unbroken, and smaller organizational units that could be detached (as at Cynoscephalae, for instance). Hannibal even attempted (and failed) to imitate this three-line system at Zama, in order to get the most out of his three quality-tiers of troops (militia, mercenaries, and veterans).

The main strength of the Camillan/Polybian system was versatility, but it also reflected socio-economic realities. The early/mid Republican army was a citizen army, the citizens armed and armoured themselves, and they were "classed" as Equites/Triarii/Principes/Hastati/Velites based on age, experience, and financial ability to purchase the appropriate panoply.

The later Republican army phased out the different troop-types into essentially Principes (which later, briefly, became everyone's favorite Lorica Segmentata Legionaries) because they had absorbed Carthage, Greece, and much of Anatolia at that point (three of the wealthiest regions on earth), and therefore could afford to equip an army of Principes at the state's (or General/Patron's) expense, and use auxilliaries for roles other than heavy infantry (Numidian, Gallic, and Iberian cavalry, Iberian and Cretan skirmishers, even elephants). This contributed to the gradual switch from Maniple to the larger Cohort, which was also a response to the 100-year-long counter-insurgency in Iberia, which necessitated self-contained "corps" instead of large Consular/Praetorian army-groups.

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>>52970457
Been working on this lot for something to do. Had them for years in an unfinished state and I'm waiting for new stuff to turn up so... might as well get some practice..

>>52963084
My favorite solution is to implement it like Kriegsspiel would - umpire and having the rooms be separate. It's a great way, if a bit expensive; you can make it a bit less expensive by taking an overhead photo of the table and having five people (two commanders, two guys communicating the info to the commanders and moving troops about and deciding combat, one umpire), with two in separate rooms, plus one of those covers for writing with a whiteboard-style pen.

But that requires too many people.

Vidya might work, but people like control.

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>>52962992
>>52963012

As these guys note, the early Roman army was essential Greek/Etruscan in style, with hoplites supported by lighter troops and very little cavalry. They got mangled by several Gallic invasions, and fought incessant low-intensity wars with Italic tribes, both of whom influenced the switch to the "legionary" style, with a Gallic, Italic, and Hellenic elements incorporated.

The Italics were masters of hit-and-run warfare, and liked to use rough terrain to help this. This encouraged the development of smaller tactical units capable of quicker battlefield reaction and initiative. The Gauls may very well have introduced the idea of a javelin-barrage preceding a sword-charge, probably introduced them to the oval shield that evolved into the Scutum.

Some have posited that the method of hiding behind a large shield and stabbing into the armpit of the man to your right (in front of the legionary standing beside you) whilst in a much looser formation (about 3' to each side) than a phalanx, was primarily determined by the needs of the short Romans to defeat the tall Gauls.

Anyway, long story short, a more porous and flexible battle-line helped to cope with both hit-and-run opponents and "furious barbarian assault" opponents. It also gave them the ability to fight the Sarisa Phalanx to a draw in a straight-up frontal fight, unlike any other infantry formation we are aware of (except perhaps veteran hoplites).

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>>52970143
County Durham represent.

>>52970748
That's actually a pretty sexy looking flag, but what is that device on it?

>>52970878
The Cross of St. Cuthbert, a patron saint of old Northumbria with lots of churches and stuff up here named after him (there's a St. Cuthbert's right down the road from my house in fact).

The flag is nice but it's not very well publicised, I would reckon most people here wouldn't recognise it which is a shame.

>>52970918

At first I mistook it for some sort of Asturias flag variant.

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>wanna play historical games
>nothing but infinity players
>they always ruin my demo games

>>52971920
Where you at Anon? Just don't say Hampshire.

>>52972094
Bury Lancashire

>>52972094
The world is a Hampshire, where we can all come together and do some fights.

>>52971920
>if I want any kind of historical presence in my club I need to organize games for others
Feels bad, man. Hopefully I'll soon have space for a table at my soon-to-be home and can invite others instead of bringing both armies and terrain to the club.

>>52972094
>not wanting him to be from Hampshire
It's like you don't want him to find a historical game.

PS. Hampshire is the greatest.

>>52972539
is the hampshire the jerusalem of histricals?

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>>52972593

>>52970143
>>52970163
Northumberland, ura!
Sheffield, pls go. You're not northern.

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>>52972752
>Sheffield, pls go. You're not northern.

hmmmmm

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>>52970143
Independence of Mercia!!!

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>>52972783
Just because it's past the halfway point doesn't mean it's northern

>>52972864
Muh Boys, Hwicce represent.

>>52972988
It doesn't even have to be half way up to be Northern I'll have you know. I draw the line somewhere around Oxford.

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>>52972988
>>52973042
I have produced a helpful guide.

>>52973422
pretty good Anon, but as a Midlander I am hurt.

I think it's time for late night folk music again lads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxls60aYSZA

>>52963883
Men of War does a pretty good job of fog of war - provided you set it to realistic. Using officers with binoculars and light vehicles to recon becomes pretty important in head to head online games.

>>52967594
Hey anon, it may take some Google translate but here's a site (in French) that shows an actual tank as well as what the symbols meant. http://2db.free.fr/divers_marquages.html

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>>52967594
>>52974938

There's also the tank in Dijon, which had some Free French General? in it.

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>>52963084
>Video games haven't made it any better, either: since they still let you know too much - even when all the requirements for some awesome fog-of-war are there.

Have you played Graviteam Tactics?

LAV-75

>>52974938
>>52974999
Awesome, thanks!

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>>52978182
COOK THE MAN SOME EGGS

>>52973422
Good image

>>52973422
kek

>>52970143
You have allies in the South West; our tractors will grind them down and turn their fields into apple orchards.

>>52970214
You think that's bad, look up the history of flags.

>>52970214
oh man that is a sweet chess set

>>52958991
Wargames foundry.

>>52973422
Yorkshire Free State? We prefer the term "Independent Republic of Yorkshire and its Colonies"

>>52981615
Yorkshireistan!

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Fireforge previewing upcoming plastic Byzantines

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The Long Range Desert Group in World War II (Osprey General Military)

Established in June 1940, as the brainchild of scientist and soldier Major Ralph Bagnold, a contemporary of Lawrence of Arabia, the Long Range Desert Group (LRDG) allowed the British Army to gain a crucial advantage in the North African Front of World War II. Traversing great swathes of the desert that had never before been explored by Europeans, the LRDG was able to launch hit-and-run raids against remote enemy targets such as the fort and airfield at Murzuk. From December 1941 until the end of the Desert War in May 1943, the LRDG carried out numerous missions in tandem with the Special Air Service, using their unparalleled knowledge of the desert to navigate the SAS to enemy airfields on which attacks would be launched. As well as in Africa, the LRDG also fought in the Aegean, undertaking numerous dangerous missions in Yugoslavia, Albania, Italy and Greece, displaying their extraordinary versatility by operating in boats, on foot and by parachute. Using never-before-published photographs and archival material, interviews with surviving veterans who have never before gone on record regarding their wartime exploits, and special access to the SAS archives, Gavin Mortimer tells the story of the origins and dramatic operations of Britain's first ever special forces unit.

https://mega.nz/#!GslzgQ4Y!Kk_kfsXiGjQFDzEIVcSeIBMoB9qsGV_qvIIt6JNvmCs

What exciting /hwg/ things are people doing this Bank Holiday weekend?

>>52983255
Painting spaniards for Blood & Plunder

>>52983255
Dreaming of having free time to actually push shit around the table.

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>>52983310
>Blood & Plunder
How is that game, anon? What are your thoughts on it?

>>52983350
I am yet to actually play a game, but... the models are bloody amazing (despite being metal), the rules seem to hit that balance between easy, engaging and tactical, and I love the fact that it can go seamlessly between naval, amphibious and land skirmishes. Time will tell how well it's balanced, but right now, it seems balanced enough, and I don't doubt that the developers won't hesitate to rebalance stuff if they find it necessary.

>>52983350
If you go to their youtube channel there's a bunch of videos about how to play the game. There's also a demo game on beasts of war.

For anyone looking for 28mm north american natives there's a new kickstarter called Flint and Feather that has some nice models.

>>52983255
dreaming of having friends to play against
dreaming of having the motivation to sit down and paint the shit out of my DAK

>>52983255
Hopefully I'm gonna get my shit together and run a Chevauchee Fantasy campaign using Conan the Barbarian as a backdrop.

Has Muskets and Tomahawks really been discontinued?

I was hoping to get my club playing it but that going to be pretty difficult now.

>>52984291
why?

if you have the rules you can still play it whether it is discontinued or not.

>>52983255
I fought an epic battle against a pile of washing up. Gonna paint some more of >>52970563
Later. Thinking of getting another box and making more French or German looking troops.

>>52984291
It's not. They just aren't going to reprint it for a bit. I Imagine until they do a 2ed or revision.

WW2 bolt action player here working on desert rats (Maori) I have a Churchill and I would like to know hat kind of camo they applied or what kind of natural materials they added to their tanks. Pics preferred. Also general bolt action/WW2 chat welcome.

>>52984578
The Kingforce Churchills were a sand and dark brown camo pattern common to most vehicles by that time.

1st Army/Tunisian churchills I am unsure about, maybe the same sand or a green 'Khaki Grey' standard of the UK and later.

>>52984814
I have them base coated in a sad color just wondering if they added any sort of plant material or some such item

>>52984380

People don't like to play out of print games.

Believe me, I've tried.

>>52985199
Then they are idiots. Most games have very few print runs desu, unless backed by a big company.

>>52984578
http://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/starmer%20camo.htm

>>52974268
Unfortunately I hate men of war's gameplay.

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>>52984578

Is lion rampant any good? Looking for a rank and file historical system.

>>52988981
In short, no.

In long, fuck no. Plus it's not rank and file.

Does anyone know of any historical wargame that could be used for Sengoku Japan. I have looked into Ronin and was wondering if anyone had any experience with it and if it could be scaled up for larger battles.

>>52983255
Playing Pulp Alley with pirates & musketeers
Painting more Napoleonics for Sharp Practice.
Rescuing a neighbour's cat from our roof

>>52989054
How large?

You can use Warhammer Ancient Battles for bigger armies in a rank and file style, also Kings of War could work, Pike and Shot has samurai army lists, etc.

>>52988442
>>52988540
Thanks. Helpful. Are there any other pictures anyone has?

>>52988997

Well shit anon. Know any good systems?

>>52989188
As I mentioned at >>52989128 WAB, KoW, Pike and Shotte and the other games in the family (Hail Caesar, Black Powder, tho they all need some tweaking to suit your tastes), I've heard good things about War & Conquest too and another game, both of them being a successors of WAB...

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>>52989243
+Impetus has a consistent mentioning here, De Bellis Whateveris too, and outside of /tg/ To The Strongest has been getting some attention from what I've seen,

>>52989379
Yeah, Basic Impetus and normal Impetus is worth a look as well, I almost forgot.

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>>52989503
I've been reading through Basic Impetus 2nd edition recently, a lot of good improvements. I think Impetus 2nd edition (whenever it finally gets out) is going to be a pretty damn good upgrade given the direction they seem to be going with streamlining and clarification in the right places without skipping on the detailing and flavour that was already there.

>>52989701
Have a pdf for it? I think I don't have it yet and it doesn't seem to be free anymore.

Also, gotta try their medieval skirmish soon...painting some French for the HYW, by the time those and some English are painted, the HYW supplement they promised will be out by Salute along with 2nd ed will be ready.

>>52982106
That man has some scary eyes.

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Dutch Armies of the 80 Years’ War 1568–1648 (1) Infantry (Osprey Man-at-Arms 510)

The 80 Years' War (also known as the Dutch War of Independence) was the foundation of Dutch nationhood, and during the course of the conflict one of its main leaders - Maurice of Orange-Nassau - created an army and a tactical system that became a model throughout Europe. This study, the first of a two-part series, focuses on the Dutch infantry. It examines how Maurice of Orange-Nassau attracted volunteers and students from across Europe, introduced innovative new training methods such as common drill movements, and standardised the organisation and payment system of the army to make it more than a match for the occupying Spanish. His successes inspired officers and generals across the continent to copy his methods, including many English officers who went on to fight in the English Civil Wars. Featuring full-colour artwork and rare period illustrations, this book examines how the Dutch infantry was transformed into a fighting force able to defeat the might of Imperial Spain.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/0h6trehep2n5hp0/Osprey+-+MAA+510+-+Dutch+Armies+of+the+80+Years+War+1568-1648+%281%29+Infantry.pdf

>>52989128
I was thinking something 50 models a side. Similar to a 1000 or so point game in WH40K.

>>52989739
I'd have to strip the watermarks off my copy and I don't have the stuff to do it I am afraid.

Lords&Servants does look like it could be good, I've been reading through that lately too and I think I'd immediately modify a couple of small things (handguns comes to mind and some tweaked troop choices but hey the tools for that are right there in the game) but otherwise seems like a nicer version of the same kind of game that Lion Rampant is supposed to be.

>>52992281
Check out Lords & Servants then, it's in the OP folders.

>>52992391
Thanks a lot, Lords and Servants looks just like what I was thinking of.

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>>52973422
>half-hearted separatism

kek

>>52991849

saved and appreciated

Thinking more on Lords & Servants, I was looking at Delta Vector's (if you've not read his game design articles you should) review of the game and this caught my eye:

>"For group fire, you roll 2d6 for the first figure, then add 1d6 each extra ones. I.e. 5 archers roll 6d6. Let's say a 4,3,6,2,6,4 are rolled = 25. A 7 is needed to hit at effective range. The total (25) / to hit (7) = 3 hits. A bit maths-y for some perhaps?"

Now forgive me because it is late and if there's actually a huge flaw in this I would not be surprised, but wouldn't it just be easier rather than doing division, to just pair up the dice to get the target number (there's some other game systems that do this), like in the given example just make pairs out of the the 4+3, the 6+2 and 6+4 to get the 3 7+ results? If it were short range and going for a 5+ the results would be 2 hits from the 6s and 2 more hits from whatever pairing of the rest of the dice is needed to get the 5+. I'm not sure if this is odd because theoretically on an obscenely good roll one more hit than there are shooters could be generated because each individual dice could get 5+. But then it could do the same anyway on the regular system if not more because of the total (maximum of 35 on that roll giving 7 hits from 5 shooters at close range and some seriously long odds).

The book just says:

>"The Group uses the total of all the dice rolled and hits a second or successive miniature for each multiple obtained."

Am I just being fucking dense? Or am I just making an obvious simplification? Or both? I bet it is both.

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Does anyone know any good books on the Galatians?

>>52973422
I would like an explanation of the jokes!

>>52996241
For the extra hits you could imagine the arrow penetrating one guy and hitting another.

>>52982558
Take me now, Chevy truck!

What 28mm miniatures are best for LRDG?

>>52988004
if someone was running Frostheim around here, I'd get myself some Perry's WotR stuff so get plate armor dudes running around.

>>52996241
Not sure if it's simplification, instead of pairing the dice to get the best results possible, adding them together and dividing the result seems much more easier. Plus it's basically elementary math, noone should be intimidated by it who's wargaming.

>>52988981
Yes, but it's not one of those.

Try, uh. To the Strongest! is really good, albeit grid-based for speed of play. It also uses cards for speed of play, but you can go back to a d10 for rolling numbers instead. It's a good game.

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Currently finishing basing my 28mm french maquis.

>>52974999
The Duguay-Trouin ?

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>>52998543
>my 28mm french maquis.
Do you have Michelle anywhere in there, anon? Artizan Designs do a nice one of her, I've always wanted to do an Allo Allo themed game and earmarked a few relevant minis.

>>52998657
Who's that ?

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>>52998736
Oh sorry, thought you might have been an Allo Allo fan! Michelle was a parody of a cliched Resistance fighter - she and all her girls were dressed in matching berets, long beige coats, short socks, and all carried Stens. Her catchphrase (every character had one) was "Lissen very carefully, I shall say this only once".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI91vKuKttg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4I9DMSvJxg

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>>52998736
>>52998833
On closer inspection you have a similar looking character there, only with red hair

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>>52998845
I got these.

>>52998862
nice redhair.

How did you do it?

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>>52998862
That's the one. The beret & overcoat ensemble became iconic Resistance garb in an old show called Secret Army (which Allo Allo was a parody of).

Speaking of Resistance chicks there's also the famous Simone Segouin, an 18-year-old girl photographed during the liberation of Paris wearing shorts and sidecap, toting an MP40.

Nice army too anon, great to see someone taking an unusual faction.

>>52998910
Base of yellow, red ink wash, strong tone wash.

>>52998925
Thanks, so far I used Westwind minis, I'll probably look at the warlord stuff later when I want to expand a bit. I'm eyeing some vehicles already.

>>52998543
What system are you using them with?

>>53000032
Bolt Action

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Has anyone played the Argad rules?

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html

I only ask because seeing them mentioned in a LAF thread title usually means an even cooler game than usual, and you know how LAF posters get.

http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=100274.0

They're mostly a French set, the Argad forum's got a small English rules discussion section but all the cool stuff is in a language where I can barely ask the way to the beach in a loud voice.

>>53000411
Nice. Have any more pictures?

>>53000453
Looks like it'd make for a hell of a Saga game.

>>52996772
idk about books but theres a three part show on BBCFour Called Celts: Blood, Iron and Sacrifice

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>>53000467
Everything's there, so far I have a bit under 600 points worth of minis.

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Might anyone be in the possession of the "Armies of By Fire and Sword" book in any digital form, and might that person be so nice to share it with me? It's not in the mediafire folder.

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>>53000682
We have a huge folder of By Fire And Sword in a Mega, it know it contains the core rules and Deluge but I don't know about the army book. Link:

mega:#!jxgCWTYD!FCp52DAqIUc-EM-TsRsWv7fB92nJ3kkzKsNcD_urI5Q

Anyone got those new Blitzkrieg Commander III rules that are fresh from the press? Looking for the pdf.

Anyone know where to get some 28mm recovery vehicles from world war 2? Sounds odd but I want to do a bolt action force consisting of say a recovery vehicle and some Engineers.

>>53001483
What nation?

Would 1:48 be an alternative for you?

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>>52998157
>noone should be intimidated by it who's wargaming

That's the ideal but the reality is that people tend not to have to do a lot of basic math and so the skill becomes unpractised. Also wargames are often played in the evening after work with the aid of maybe a brew or two, which doesn't help.

>>53001535

Say Germany or the USA? Alternatively if that's not possible was gonna do a Finnish for bolt action but I don't know cheaper alternatives to the warlord finns sadly...

>>53002086
Gaso.line does a set to convert Bergetiger in 1:48 and a Bergepanzer 38t as well

http://www.gaso-line.eu/news/gas48016.htm
http://www.gaso-line.eu/news/gas48020.htm

Base for these would be the Tamiya kits.
They probably have equal kits for US.

>>53001653
Then have a calculator ready...or your phone, it has a calculator on it too. But dividing 30 by 7 only counting for full numbers shouldn't be hard.

And on the brew thing - for some reason I'm better at math after a few drinks. Strange.

>>52991849
Nice.

What would be a good ruleset for playing that era?

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>>53002660
>shouldn't be hard.

And yet it can be.
It's one of those things that kinda amazes me but I also find entirely understandable given that many wargamers who are otherwise intelligent people have a whole bunch of debilitating conditions that can influence the ability to think clearly, particularly if having to take any sort of pain meds (probably more than a few people here who've fought their way through migraines and the like just to get a game in because fuck letting your body stop you having fun).

But there is definitely a culture of being very adverse to any sort of math beyond basic addition and subtraction going on and in all my years of gaming I've never been able to work out why that is the case. Fears of a game being too much like ancient monstrosities? Too much like work? Is it at all related to the distaste for use of charts of any kind that pops up a lot? Does it actually affect gameplay by having to switch train of thought from planning, moving figures and rolling dice over to resolution of mechanics? Does having a phone out for the purpose of calculating too easily become an unwelcome distraction? A lot of people don't even like having phones out for .pdf reference still if there's any alternative available after all.

>>53000584
That's a great force and you could use it across most theaters at any point in Europe.

Are there any archives with the warlord books including the theater books?

>>53005126
You mean like...the one in OP?

If you were looking to collect some 28mm Romans, would you go with Victrix or Warlord Games?
Warlord seems to have more to the range, while Victrix seems to be more detailed (although that could just be done to painting and the like)

>>53006661
Victrix. They only started that range and are releasing more stuff, all in plastic. No more shitty all metal cavalry!

>>53004311
If phones are an issue you can pick up basic calculators for like a fiver in a supermarket or stationary shop

>>53006788
Thanks, I'm new to Historicals so having a range of different manufacturers is a bit overwhelming. Would the higher quality of Victrix be a general thing or is it just due to when the kits have been released?

>>53007361
For the most part they are better, as they have more parts per sprue, thus more options. But the Warlord Romans are relatively old, that plays a part as well.

>>53007361
>I'm new to Historicals so having a range of different manufacturers is a bit overwhelming

Don't worry, we'll heal the wounds GW left upon your psyche.

So I lived in northern Hampshire until I went to uni, and have just got into /hwg/. I'll be heading back soonish and was wondering if there are any good clubs people would recommend?
I've got a Bolt Action army that I play with my brother and am collecting some 28mm Macedonians if that helps!

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>>53005161
Okie dokie I'm an idiot

>>53007725
It look me a while to overcome the deep psychological damage they did to me over the years but you can heal the wounds.

>>53009140
where in Hampshire? I'm from proper North Hants, Farnborough way.

>>53009318
I'm around Winchester-Newbury-Basingstoke area

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>>53001374
If you're looking for BKC3, I'd wait. Apparently there were some major problems with the army lists.

>>53009355
I think there's at least four clubs in just those named places (I know Basingstoke gets two)

>>53009860
Ouch.
Any ideas what specifically? From that I expect they didn't do the smart but incredibly tedious thing of retyping everything rather than copy-paste-edit. Bad copypasta cludge is a very traditional bane of new editions and deviations.

>>53010066
I haven't had a chance to look over the lists myself, but it seems like units are just missing or are ahistorical.

>>53010066
Probably just using the BKC3 rules with BKC2 lists would be fine until this is fixed.

>>53010066
>Bad copypasta cludge is a very traditional bane of new editions and deviations.

Don't I know it. *plays Exalted, remembers Second Edition Dragon-Blooded*

Any SAGA players here? I really want to do some Dark Ages wargaming.

Are there systems for larger battles? Would love to have a go at doing the battle of Hastings.

>>53009860
I have the pdf version, can confirm the army lists at least have more holes than...I don't even know they are really fucking busted. The weirdest part is that damn near any unit in any army can be either Green or Veteran for free. Veterans are easier to suppress but can never be knocked out for falling back and spontaneously dig in when hit so why wouldn't you take this?

Gonna organize a big(ahistorical) Bolt Action game for my group on D-Day. At first guess, we'll have Finland and two German players vs. the Soviet Union, Britain, and the US. Should be fun.

>>53011370
>(ahistorical) Bolt Action game

You don't need the qualifier; that's like saying wet water.

>>53011370
That sounds really cool. What part of the world are you in? I have ija Germans fj waffen ss and some desert rats in progress.

>>53010800

A few, I play Vikings at the moment but I'm thinking about getting a Steppe army soon since they are pretty much the polar opposite of Vikings play style wise.

Gripping Beast have Swordpoint which is a large battle game that has supplements for classical, Dark Ages, and Medieval eras. It's supposed to be for battles of around 100-250 minis a side.

I've never played it and know nothing about how it plays, I think there's a PDF somewhere, it might be in the OP.

Odd question, but, what's with the Nordic Weasel blog?

It seems to be Italian conspiracy theory stuff.

>>53011370
>At first guess, we'll have Finland and two German players vs. the Soviet Union, Britain, and the US. Should be fun.

With that sort of a "We really don't give a fuck" ahistorical lineup, why don't you just add Orks, Tau, and Tyranids too?

If you're going to play fantasy, be a man a play fantasy instead of trying to disguise it as WW2.

>>53012083
Must have lapsed or been hijacked.

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>>53012216
Well that just wouldn't fit the theme would it. Even fantasy is supposed to have some sort of consistency.

>>53012216
>With that sort of a "We really don't give a fuck" ahistorical lineup, why don't you just add Orks, Tau, and Tyranids too?
Since all miniature wargames by their very nature are an abstraction, the idea that something has to be 100% simulationist or in accordance with historical records seems ridiculous to me.
Even in historical scenarios that recreate battles the main appeal of those games is always the 'what if' scenarios. Could you succeed where Napoleon failed? A wargame isn't gonna answer that either. Never could.
And then you are talking about Bolt Action too.

Why shit on somebody whose plan is to have a game with the express purpose of having fun?
Seriously, with that elitist attitude I'd have expected YOU to come fresh from the 40k tourney circle...

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>>53012216
His sides actually do make sense. Germany and Finland were buddies - Finns buying StuGs and Pz IVs from the Germans later on in the war, Soviets fought Finland and Germany and were "buddies" with US and British.

The Brits sold weapons to the Finns, and the US gave them some money, but they never actually fought with them, and their very public close ties with the Soviet Union would make them look like shits to the Finns.

Finns even volunteered to fight on the eastern front against the soviets.
The pairings work well in an "any enemy of my enemey is my friend" and "any ally of my enemy is my enemy" kind of way. At least only 1 side will have swastikas....

>>53012494
It's the same bait trotted out by the same asshole for the umpteenth time. Just ignore him.

>>53012494
>And then you are talking about Bolt Action too.

Which is the problem. With it's deliberate lack of any historical accuracy, BA might as well be WH40K.

>>53012497
>His sides actually do make sense.

No they do not. While Finland and Germany were allied, their troops did not serve side by side as the failed siege of Leningrad illustrates.

The UK, US, and USSR were allied also, but WAllies never fought alongside the Red Army.

BA is for people who don't want to be caught playing WH40K but who also can't be arsed enough to care about even the tiniest bit of historical plausibility. It might as well be called BA40K.

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Has anyone here played The Great War Spearhead? I've always wanted to try a divisional level game and WW1 has always interested me. I was thinking about looking into some of the battles of the Eastern front and making a board out of one. I'm eyeing Pendraken's line for the miniatures.

>>53012216
"You're having fun wrong" is such a worthless position to take if you don't offer an alternative or explain how someone could be having more fun using your methods.

There is also a fairly large divide between, fighting a battle between nations which never fought each other and Orks.

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>>53012716
Allies fighting side by side isn't such a stretch. You yourself said BA 'deliberately lacks historical accuracy', so why get riled up about a not-quite-historical match up. At least people get to play with their armies against each other. There is no better way to combine those 5 armies, so suck it.

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>>53012746
I've heard good things, BBB and squarebashing are 2 other rulesets that may work. Westfront as well is aimed at divisional level, and has a lot of WW1 flavor like units getting lost or communication issues

>>53004311
>But there is definitely a culture of being very adverse to any sort of math beyond basic addition and subtraction going on and in all my years of gaming I've never been able to work out why that is the case. Fears of a game being too much like ancient monstrosities? Too much like work?
Yeah, kinda. It may only take a couple of seconds, but if there's a way to avoid having to spend a couple of seconds thinking, why do it? There is some actual what's the term cognitive load involved, and there's usually an alternative option that's less hassle.

Any chance anyone have the Up Front! PDFs that are on Wargame Vault?

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>>53006661

For Early Imperial Romans (Lorica Segmentata) I'd say Victrix hands-down. Victrix' EIR sets are brand-new and the sculpting shows, also cheaper I think.

For Republican/Polybian Romans, a company named Agema miniatures makes the best (infantry) figs imo, and for Caesarian/Late Republican Victrix's are a lot older, and Warlord's a bit newer, than their respective EIR offerings so they kind of balance out except in price/bits per sprue (where I think Victrix comes out on top)

All that said, I have figs from all three manufacturers, as long as you don't put them in the same unit the scaling differences are not that noticeable (for instance, Warlord plastic Ballista would probably not look bad on the same table as Victrix legionaries). Generally, Victrix is the tallest, Warlord the shortest, Agema the skinniest.

>>53007361
>Would the higher quality of Victrix be a general thing or is it just due to when the kits have been released?
>>53007494

What this guy said. It varies from set to set. Victrix's Athenian/Spartan/Theban/Mercenary hoplites are pretty bad (Unarmoured are better), Warlord's Phalangites have aged fairly well, Victrix's Gauls look like they will be lightyears beyond Warlord's, etc. etc. Also Victrix has plastic (ancients) cavalry, which to my knowledge almost nobody does except the now defunct Wargames Factory (and they weren't very good anyway).

in any case, look at a lot of pictures online before committing to a buy, you can find size-comparison pics of different ranges and varying qualities of paintjobs (sprue pic is better than painted figures because a lot of people gum up the details and don't do the figs justice) to make a more informed decision and suit your taste, army plan, and budget

Has anybody got the King Arthur book for Saga yet? Is it any good?
I heard it isn't balanced against a lot of the other lists.

>>53012216
>>53012803
>nations which never fought each other

Just put USSR and Fingolians opposite each other on one end of the table, problem solved

>Orks

This kind of thing happened in 40k too

>tfw Ork allied with two space marine players against three spess muhreen players

>>53011754
Does anybody know where to get the information on running a Steppe Nomad army? Apparently, it was only available in an issue of a magazine you can't get anymore.

Anyone know some good games involving say World War One trench raids?

>>53014641
through the mud and blood, over the top. BA has been adapted for WWI iirc

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Anybody know where I can grab a PDF of this?

>>53014960
> Mailed Fist
> tfw the postal service is quicker than your tank

>>53014960

Well looks like I got a new book to read after the forgotten soldier.

>>53015240
Only place I've found it is Amazon, and that's for absurd prices.

>>53015414

Anon you mind helping me? I just finished Tigers in the mud and am in the middle of reading the forgotten soldier and am looking for a couple good books to follow them up.

Any ideas?

>>53015532
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/840571.The_Clay_Pigeons_of_St_L_

>>53012716
I specifically introduced it as "World War 40k" to get players in my group into it when they were salty about 40k's current state. Now we're putting a campaign together that'll stretch over all of Europe.

We're also having fun, so neener neener.

>>53012716
> It might as well be called BA40K.

>Not Warhammer 1940K.

You missed a good chance there, comrade.

Anyways, here's your (you).

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>>53016214
>1940K
hate to be that guy, but wouldn't 1.94K be more accurate?

I played a game of Black Powder with some friends and I really like how formations work in that game. Is Hail Caesar! similiar?

On that note what games can I get massive amounts of large fighting formations fielded in 6 to 10mm with in Late Antiquity? I'm looking for fun over realism in such a game.

>>53016268
You're absolutely right. I went with 1940K since well, 40K.

Those are some nice Japanese by the way

>>53014256
Are you able to mix in between companies? Does it look like shit?
I can't mix my Perrys and my Warlord miniatures and I want to be able to.

>>53014256
>For Early Imperial Romans (Lorica Segmentata)
reminder that Lorica Segmentata was NEVER the most common armour in the legions.

>>53016705

I know mate but thanks to Russel Crowe nobody will ever care

>>53016345

What I meant was that I use multiple companies/manufacturers' figures in the same *army*, but (depending on in-range variation) you can't really mix them into the same *units*.

For example, in the second half (20) of my Warlord Phalangites' box, I've mixed in about 1/4 heads from the Victrix Peltasts/Unarmoured Hoplites sets, and vice versa (using some WLG Phalangite heads in my Peltasts and Hoplites units) this is because the heads are a little too small in the Victrix sets, so they work well together (although I have to build a neck out of greenstuff when sticking the Victrix heads to the WLG, but the WLG heads just look slightly taller and better-proportioned on the Victrix bodies)

Warlord is very hit-or-miss on its plastic kits though, they are not really universally scaled. Their Romans are, I think, on the small side even by their standards.

Anyway, like I was saying, in my experience they look fine on the same table, just not ranked up in the same units.

Also, although I don't own any, AFAIK Perry's are among the smallest 28mm figures in the business, although I think my Warlord/Immortal hoplites give Perry a run for their money.

If my rambling is still confusing I might just take a bunch of pictures tomorrow, show units side-by-side versus individual figs side by side

>>53012716
Just shut the fuck up already.

Hey guys, what are some good paints to paint ww2 russian infantry summer uniforms with? 28mm scale.

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>>52973422
>mrw as a Scotsman anywhere is England is referred to as "the North".

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>>53011754
Got any pictures of your armies?

Think I'm going to go with SAGA, I think I'll enjoy making smaller, more detailed warbands as a modelling project. Looking at doing a Norman warband and an Anglo Dane one, but I understand it's probably easier to mix and match plastic kits to make an Anglo-Dane and Viking warband? I'll need two warbands to demo the game and try and get people locally into the game!

>>53017694
I'm from Kent, everything north of the Watford gap is the north, these northerners need to stop trying to palm the midlands off on us

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>>53017771
Not the guy you're replying to, but here's my Viking/Jomsviking warlord. (He pulls double duty since I'm a cheapskate)

>>53017805
Looks good! What's the differences between vikings and jomsvikings?

>>53017961
My friend calls them "cheaty vikings."

But Jomsvikings can't take levies, can take a lot of dane axes and are dependent on rage - which they gain from their battleboard abilities.
Those abilities are mostly things like, let me do X or give me Y amount of rage.

>>53018224
Ah right, sounds interesting. I really like the idea of the battle boards, seems to add a lot of depth to what appears at first glance to be a relatively simple game.

>>53009960
Thanks! I'll have a look into it!

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>>53014574

There you go. They're apparently quite difficult to use

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>>53017771

I have a couple of pics. This is my priest that I use with my vikings, he's from Stronghold Terrain and based on the seer from Vikings the tv show.

And yeah I use clear bases which aren't to everyone's taste but I just can't stand having bases that don't match the terrain I'm playing on.

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2 shots of wargaming mat just arrived from Deep Cut studios. 6' X 4' PVC perfect for WWI or WWII air battles over Europe, or perhaps small scale ground battles at 10mm or 6mm.

Pretty happy with it, definitely be cranking some Lacquered Coffins with it.

>>53017771
>>53018568

And this is Gunnar Hámundarson, a special character I occasionally use but he also gets played as just a regular warlord sometimes.

I should have taken a pic next to a regular mini, he's comically massive compared to the Gripping Beast plastics, almost space marine levels of huge.

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>>53018591

Forgot my pic like an ass.

>>53018540
Thank you very much

>>53018568
>>53018598
Lovely models - I've been watching a lot of Vikings recently actually.

So is there a good 'starter' army? Norman's and Anglo-Danes are my preference and they both appear in the standard rule book so I'm assuming they're ok for a beginner?

>>53019380
Vikings and Anglo-Danes are the best starters, in my opinion.

They play well against each other - attack vs. defence, aren't too complicated in terms of abilities/rules, and are both easy to do in cheaper plastics.

Normans rely on things that add complication, like levies and cavalry. That and there's no reason to ever take unmounted Norman warriors or hearthguard (outside of the 1 crossbow warrior unit).

>>53019380
AD and Normans work well too though - especially if you're going after a Hastings theme.

>>53019436
Yeah, although Anglo-Danes and Vikings might let me have a go at Stamford Bridge instead.

The Hastings theme is definitely why I'm so interested in this though. So I'll nab the four point plastic starter for the Anglo Danes, then probably a box of Conquest Games' Norman Knights and a box of Norman infantry. I have some spare perry miniatures crossbows somewhere to convert the normans. That should easily cover me.

>>53019471
avoid the norman infantry.

There's no place for them in Normans for SAGA. The Battleboard doesn't have any abilities for them.

I'm also not a huge fan of the mounted normans from conquest - I use them as First Crusaders.

>>53019492
Ah, if that's the case I might go for the Anglo-Dane v Vikings split instead!

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>>53004259
>What would be a good ruleset for playing that era?
The easiest answer is Pike & Shotte, especially for the second half of the War.

Does anyone have a PDF of Kings of War Historical?

Is there any idea when the Warlord plastic Brit Paras are releasing? I'm tempted to get the old Paul Hicks sculpts as I've wanted them for years but If the plastics are soon I could save a bit.

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>>53020153
http://www.mediafire.com/file/qgpkf92mhpjjxuu/KoW+Historical+001-128_v5.pdf

>>53016268
Looks good. What theater?

>>53020397
Hero.

>>53019492

People say it's worth taking some crossbowmen but honestly I've never seen them do anything that impressive, they hit hard but only having 4 shots at most kind of cripples them.

>>53020397

Whats this clip from?

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>>53020693
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn36Pb8z3yI

>>53020806

Cool.

That is great basing. I love the raven on the rock behind Ivar.

>>53020806
That flag is straight out of 3rd ed WHFB I swear.

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Just about done with my Free French M8 HMC for the North Africa armies I'm creating.

Added weathering which...i hate.

>>53021200
Looking pretty nice so far, anon.

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>>53021103
Looks weirdly out of place, doesn't it. The Covenanters had some strange regimental flag designs but nothing as gaudy as that, although the fire/book/sword imagery is definitely in theme.

>>53021200
Nice, how did you do the weathering?

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>>53021249
Thank you!

>>53021290
A very watered down vallejo black and a dry brush. I would hold the bristles apart and rub it downward. I also used steel legion drab, utilizing the same technique. Oh, and nuln oil as well, but a very little bit.

I think it's the front that I may need to redo the weathering on. I dry brushed karak stone after doing weather and I don't really like the result.

>>53020581
Thing is, you can add extra dice from your attack pool as well. And sure, 4 crossbow shots are survivable. But 8, and 12 arrows from bows (you did take a unit of levies, right?) are something different. And in the end, if the dice gods were with you, you haven't taken any fatigue.

>>53017550
>>53014256

>>53006661 Anon here. Thanks for the lengthy replies. They are appreciated. Pics would be great if you have the time, although I think I've been sold on the Victrix line.

Does a scanned pdf of the Modern Spearhead rules exist, and if so, can someone send me a DL link? I've looked around but I can't find it, and it's not on the mediafire folders here.

>>53016273
Both Hail Caesar and Pike and Shotte are based off the Black powder ruleset so it should be very similar.

I think in the Hail Caesar ruleset there is a way to convert the frontages into 10mm or 6mm if you want, but I just use the same sizes as 28mm and have massive armies instead.

OK, what are differences between Category 1 and Category 2 and category whatever infantry in FFoT?

>>53025103
I assume you refer to the soviets, as that is the only nation with categories of troops that I know of.

The answer is that in real life the soviets divided their armed forces into different categories, with Cat 1 receiving the best equipment at highest priority and Cat 3 having the lowest priority.

>>52982106

Anyone have a ballmark era/century for that soldier?

>>53023379

For EIR victrix is definitely the way to go. They're going to release an "attacking" set as well as the current "marching" set, and each box has the bits to turn into praetorians or Auxilia. If you wanted to use the plastic scorpion from warlord or make officers/generals dioramas out of warlord character figs, I would think you could get away with them alongside victrix, but you could also kitbash or convert characters and skip siege weapons

I'll post some pics of my dudes later though just for reference

also check out caliver books, they sell victrix and other historical minis at a modest (5-10%) discount and, more importantly, free global shipping

>>52982106
8-11th probs

>>53025212
Oh, thanks!

>>53017550
>If my rambling is still confusing I might just take a bunch of pictures tomorrow, show units side-by-side versus individual figs side by side
would love if you did that, even if you did make yourself clear enough for my taste

>>53025212
waffen ss and heer?

>>53025309

They said they want the kit to work for "thematic" (8-11th c.) and "Nikephorian" (??? 12th?) depending solely on shield swaps: oval "scuta" for the earlier or the depicted kite/"teardrop" for later, though I think oval, heater, and kite were all used simultaneously in 10-11th c.

They also said they'd do archers/psiloi (presumably would include Javelins, slings, maybe crossbows, staff slings and solenari or w/e it's called) and might do cavalry if these sets do well.

Releasing infantry first for a majority cavalry army doesn't make a lot of sense, but I like how they look and would make cool alternative fantasy figs, also suitable for saga Byzantines. With a little thought and planning fireforge mongols and gripping beast Arab cav could make everything from pechenegs to turcopoles to Armenians, FF Rus would work for varangians, and Normans could be used from FF crusader sets or conquest games.

Yes, I autistically started planning a Byzantine army the second I saw this preview

>>53025103
The equipment priorization was based on location and staffing. Category 1/First Echelon/whatever was based in the Pact nations and basically fully staffed, and with the best equipment. Second Echelon was next from Baltics to Ukraine and partially manned with detailed plans to mobilize. The third echelon was a basement full of T-34s somewhere in Siberia.

>>53017771
>Looking at doing a Norman warband and an Anglo Dane one, but I understand it's probably easier to mix and match plastic kits to make an Anglo-Dane and Viking warband?

Yeah, basically gripping beast makes Saxons+Vikings+generic dark age levies that can be used for anything from ostrogoths to early/mid Byzantines to Vikings and Saxons. GBP sets are all interchangeable, so you could certainly make two large warbands from those three boxes (Vikings+Saxons+DA warriors) but the sculpting isn't great on them as they are kind of old.

Conquest makes pretty meh Norman cavalry, and melee infantry but no corssbowmen, and I understand saga Normans are all about cav+crossbows with very little use for Spearmen.

It's a shame there isn't a really nice plastic range of Normans because they were so widespread in their time

https://www.scribd.com/doc/306235573/GDW-0711-Harpoon-Battles-of-the-Third-World-War

https://www.scribd.com/doc/161877017/Wargame-Harpoon-3rd-ed-GDW

https://www.scribd.com/doc/102314300/Harpoon-4-CoAG-Quickstart-Rules-Summary-and-Scenarios

>>53018590
Holy crap that looks good.

>>53018590
That looks incredible. Is it custom? I can't seem to find it on their store.

>>53018590
>or perhaps small scale ground battles at 10mm or 6mm.
Looking at that map you might want to go even smaller, dare I suggest it.

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>>53028520
Like 3mm?

Idk I just got a bunch of 6mm stuff from heriocs and ros and they're pretty small... not sure my sanity could handle anything smaller

Looking forward to having a go at painting and basing these though, made some good progress on Hind & Seek yesterday too - units can come under fire from enemies that aren't placed on the table - allowing some pretty accurate "Where the hell is that fire coming from!?" situations. You can spend a few actions to try to work out where the fire is coming from - revealing the enemy unit, or the enemy can reveal themselves in order to act normally. Should hopefully add a degree of realism beyond "enemy is there, kill it" style gameplay. Instead you'll have "where the hell is the enemy!? we're pinned down!"

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>>53028704
3mm is great if you want to use LOTS of tanks.

>>53026026
I believe Nikephoran implies the time before Basil II with Nikephoros "the pale death of the saracens" while thematic essentially means the poorer regional troops instead of the elite tagmata regiments. I'd like to see the sprue soon, fireforge doesn't make very good heads.

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>>53023379
>>53025978

Alright pics incoming, doubled them up so sorry if that's confusing or they're too big

This one is (top L-R): Victrix Iberians, Agema Legionaries, Victrix Unarmoured Hoplite/Peltasts, Warlord Phalangites, Warlord/Immortal Hoplites

bottom L-R: Victrix (I've kitbashed them into "Peltophoroi"), Warlord, Immortal

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>>53031689

This is Victrix>Agema>Victrix

The "Peltophoroi" are made from Unarmoured hoplites with spears and a few Iberian javelins, and their shields are unused Macedonian Peltes from my warlord Argyraspides (who come with metal shields as well as plastic ones on the sprue). The peltast in the rear right corner with the "AGATHE" shield has a Warlord Phalangite head

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>>53031755

Top is the Warlord/Immortal hoplites between Victrix and Agema, they are the smallest of the bunch. Didn't really know what I was doing when building the hoplites, so they're an ahistorical mix of 6th and 4th-century helmets. Most of the peltophoroi are hand-painted shield designs, the immortals are all decals

Bottom is Agema next to Victrix Iberians. Since my Romans will mostly be fighting my Carthaginians, it's cool that they are pretty much the same height, although the Agema are far slimmer and more realistically proportioned (probably shoulda shot them sideways, shields in the way)

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>>53031867

Last the warlord Macedonians, who are a bit shorter than the Victrix, but on much thinner integral bases, so they end up not looking out of place beside either the tall Victrix or the short Immortals

Also kitbashed Taxiarch and standard bearer using a spare Dory and shield-blanket from the Immortal hoplites, with a spearhead from WHFB Empire State Troops. The Phalangites have some crests taken from the immortal kit, for variety

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>>53031942

And then actual lastly, the left is my second Taxeis, standard converted same way as the painted one with a victrix crest, Taxiarch has a victrix head, agema plumes, victrix Makhaira and hand on Warlord arm, and victrix Hoplon, third is a victrix head+crest (you can see how it's going to need a "neck" of greenstuff to line up properly)

On the right, a WIP warlord phalangite with an Immortal spartan head in felt Pilos, two victrix mercenary hoplites with Warlord phalangite heads, and a third victrix hoplite with the same immortal head in the pilos (for some reason this one head out of the whole kit is big enough to fit on any of the figures)

>>53031942
>but on much thinner integral bases

on much thicker bases, so if you cut off the base, they would look shorter but since they're on it, they rank up nicely next to the Victrix

>That moment you stop looking at saga only to play some Total War Attila so you go back to look at their newest supplement.

Fuck man I just ordered spectre operations shit but now I have a hankering for to paint up some late romans and saxons...

>>53033648

What game?

>>53034636
I think it's a demo board and not an actual game, anon. It was set up by Oshiro Terrain at this year's Salute.

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New thread: >>53036271