Khorne and Khaine

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thx

>>52937144
One's a shattered warp god and the other is a chaos god.
Which was a more significant distinction before GW said, "Variety and creativity is hard, and Chaos needs to be jerked off a bit more. Everything in the warp is chaos now :^)"

>>52937230
Does GW ruin the lore often? I've heard complaints about it before when skimming over a Necron article.

>>52937144

Eldar gods are sort of this thing that nobody really bothers to talk about much. They don't really ever do anything and most of them are dead at this point. The short of it is that the eldar had a pantheon of gods that mostly all died during the eldar's fall from grace.

Khaine was eventually beaten up by slaanesh(turning most of him into shards that are used to power the avatar of khaine unit) and khorne took what remains of khaine as his own slave because lol-chaoswank.

>>52937144
>Just how is Khaine different from Khorne.

Khaine is a god created by belief, the Eldar's representation of their blood lust and warrior culture.
Khorne is more primal, born from rage and hate universes over.

>Why worship one over the other?

Worshipping Khorne can grant you power and immortality. Khaine isn't as powerful and doesn't really do much, but it'd be good to be on his good side.

>What's the difference between their ideologies?

Khaine doesn't really have a set ideology, besides the fact he likes to fight. Khorne desires carnage and the endless flow of blood.

In general you can think of Khaine as a much more constrained form of Khorne.

>>52937453
Does this mean the Chaos Gods have, on average, more power than an Eldar god?

>>52937510
>Worshipping Khorne can grant you power and immortality.
Well this is new info to me. How does Khorne grant someone immortality? I haven't researched that part yet.

>>52937540
He can grant people daemonhood, which transfigures them into a daemon prince.
Daemons are immortal.
Khorne is also fond of just resurrecting mortals he likes.

>>52937526
Yes.
Considerably so.
Khaine was described as a leaf and the Chaos Gods as hurricanes right before Khaine got shattered.

>>52937607
Thank you for this clarification.

>>52937635
Damn. Why are the Eldar gods so weak, especially considering the size of the Eldar empire at the time of Slannesh's birth?

>>52937662
>Damn. Why are the Eldar gods so weak

They're not weak, they're just not in the same league as the Chaos Gods. The Chaos Gods gain power from much broader and deeper sources.

>>52937704
>The Chaos Gods gain power from much broader and deeper sources.
I see. Anyways, thank you for clarifying that detail.

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>>52937144
Khorne's ideology is a lot more active - the will of khorne is to change the universe. Khorne despises a perfect warrior who only fights to increase his skill, for that is the domain of Slaanesh. To Khorne, the perfect warrior is no the undefeated warrior, but the warrior who causes blood to flow the most*.

Khaine is more like Slaanesh, in that he focusses a lot more on skill. It's Khaine who taught the Phoenix Lords the various aspects of war, and it is through their devotion of Khaine that the Eldar Aspect Warriors devote their lives to perfecting their skill with specific fighting styles.


*Note, not all blood is worth the same to Khorne, despite popular belief. The saying "Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows" is not literal. It refers to Khorne not caring whenter one side or the other wins. Khorne prefers the blood and skulls of powerful warriors to the wholesale slaughter of civilians (because they make poor warriors).

>>52938012
>Khorne despises a perfect warrior who only fights to increase his skill, for that is the domain of Slaanesh.
I thought Slanessh was the Pleasure God. What does that have to do with skill?

>>52938064
Slaanesh is the god of excess. Excess pleasure, excess art, excess grandeur, excess ceremony, excess sensation, excessively long lists, and yes, excess skill. Slaanesh is pleased by those who devote themselves excessively to one thing, including the warrior who hones his craft for its own sake.

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>>52938012
Khorne does not care about why you fight. Blood and skulls are all that matters. A psychotic mass murderer is worth the same to him as a duelist head-hunter.

Your beliefs or reasons to fight do not concern him in the slightest, as long as rivers of blood and mountains of skulls are created he will still shower you with gifts even if you think you're doing it for peace or some gay shit like that.

>>52937662
By the time of the Fall, the Eldar had mostly abandoned their gods and all their effort went into the depravities that birthed Slaanesh.

Slaanesh was getting almost all the mojo that the entire pantheon once got.

>>52938188
That is because Khorne wants the _aftermath_ of the fight, not the fight itself. Like you said, he wants blood and skulls. He wants an axe burying itself in another man's skull. what he doesn't want is an axe burying itself in a practise dummy.

>>52938174
Huh. I had a hunch Slaanesh wasn't competently bad, I just didn't know how until recently.

>>52938232
Actually the fight is just as important. Rage, hatred, courage and determination are emotions that cool down after a battle ends, and since these emotions are what give him form in the first place, he longs for eternal war.

There is no peace. Only time wasted between battles.

>>52938294
Those emotions are still the aftermath of the fight. The actual actions of sword hitting sword mean nothing to Khorne.

>There is no peace. Only time wasted between battles
Or, if you want the grimbright interpretation, there's not even that. In truth, life is just as violent as death, for the living are constantly struggling against the universe every second that they live. Combat is simply the greatest act of struggle there is.

How come there aren't human gods in the warp? Not psychic enough?

>>52938188
>A psychotic mass murderer is worth the same to him as a duelist head-hunter.

Khorne cares about quantity, not quality. He doesn't care how you kill people, just that you do, and do it often - a psychotic who massacres everyone he meets holds more value than a duelist who only kills "worthy" opponents.

>>52938397
>quantity, not quality
Gay. The butcher who kills pigs is not favoured by Khorne. The doctor who genocides trillions of bacteriums is not favoured by Khorne. This is not to say that omnicide is displeasing to Khorne, just that the killing of great warriors is more pleasing to him than the killing of weak children. This is why Khornate warriors are big on heroic challenges and single combat.

>>52938391
Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeench are human gods. Khorne in particular was likely created by Human psychic run-off, which is why his primary form is that of an armored human being.

>>52938391
They already have a corpse in a chair, what more gods to they need?

>>52938391
There are. Chaos gods.

If you mean the deities of the major monotheistic religions of earth today.
Then; because those are made up bullshit with zero basis in reality.

At least the chaos gods are fuelled and worshipped based on actual concepts and real emotion.

This is the 21st century. Most religions are turning their backs on god, because rational thought is finally catching up with the stupid of the world. Give it a few thousand years...

40k is a long time in the future. 30k is also in the distant future. The current major monotheist gods haven't even existed for as long as the difference between now and the grim dark.

>>52938511
>which is why his primary form is that of an armored human being.

Actually he's a dog man.

>>52937510
>universes over
adb pls

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>>52938602
I know, but that was dropped off early on. The armor stayed.

>>52937704
It doesn't help all they're followers are pretty much dead

>>52938635
>that was dropped off early on.

No it wasn't.

>>52938631
It's canon.

>>52937607
Khorne hates resurrecting mortals, and has only ever resurrected Khârn but once at the Siege of Terra. Khârn has never died since.

>>52938952
He resurrected Valkia and Skarr Bloodwrath.
He does whatever he wants.

>>52939027
He didn't resurrect Valkia, he made her a Daemon Princess thing.

>>52939162
Nah, she was mortal.

All these bitter Eldarfags.

The setting is about the Imperium (and their Ynnari sidekicks) vs Chaos, sorry.

>>52937230
>warp god and the other is a chaos god.
>Warp God
>Chaos God
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>>52939027
He didn't resurrect Valkia, she was at the verge of death, iirc, and he made her a Daemon Princess.

So she technically wasn't dead.

Dunno who Skarr is tho

>>52939293
>He didn't resurrect Valkia

Nope, she died.

>iirc, and he made her a Daemon Princess.

Nope, he brought her back to life.
Whether she has since become a daemon is more open to debate, but even now her rules treat her as a mortal and not a daemon.

>>52938242
None of the Chaos gods are. They represent the positive and negative aspects of the emotions that formed them. Slaneesh favors the artist seeking to perfect his craft just as much as the hedonist seeking their next high. Nurgle is both despair and the deternination to carry on in spite of hardships. Hope and ambition in all its forms fuels Tezeentch, from the scheming politician to the revolutionary. And Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, only that it flows. Even the most righteous and virtuous of warriors gives him power.

The Chaos gods are inextribly tied to sentient life, you can't get rid of them without killing all life in the galaxy. The problem is that all the death and destruction caused by the War in Heaven twisted the Warp, which is why the gods are all assholes.

>>52939271
One is orderly, one is not. What is there hard to guess and make you look like a retard?

>>52937144
Khorne doesn't really have a character. He's just violent emotion incarnate.The lore states he was created primarily out of human emotion.

Khaine is one of the old Eldar Gods. All warp entities are based on emotion, Khaine largely being violence. However, Khaine also had a personality. He was more refined. As the Eldar stopped worshipping their Gods and heeded only Slaaneshi behavior, Khaine gradually lost strength. So did the other Eldar Gods.

When Slaanesh was born he killed the neglected Eldar Gods except Isha, Khaine, and Cegorach.

Khaine was saved by Khorne because he admired his violent nature. Khorne regards him as a son.

The chaos gods represent forces of nature incarnate and have positive aspects but there doesn't seems to be and "good" manifestations, the chaos ones are all pretty gross and destructive,

In all fairness if khorne were ever to be defeated like slaanesh from Ynnead. It would be all appropriate for Khorne to fist himself to death or oblivion

>>52940840

on second thought no
slaanesh would be dong that

Khorne would cut off and eat his own dick before beheading himself

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>>52938952
But anon, Khorne brings Tuska back all the time.

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>>52938012

Khorne is not an honorable foe any more than orks, both valuing a good krumpin. He doesn't withhold his blessing from those who slaughter the innocents and weak. However, by design someone who is only slaughtering the innocent and weak will be appealing to Slaanesh because it will be cultivating the emotions of pic related and excess. To use a metaphor, a Khornate will besiege a city, kill the defenders and kill everyone until something new gets his attention. A slaaneshi will besiege a city, kill the defenders, and kill and torture every last civilian for the thrill of it.

>>52938511

I understand the human centric nature of the setting but what seems to contradict it is that I read the war in heaven and the old gods weaponization of the warp is what caused it to become this mean, nasty and violent place. With all the xenos species in the galaxy it is hard to take seriously the idea that , for instance, -just- the medieval period or just the Genghis Khan conquests were enough to gestalt Khorne.

It took the Eldar's galaxy spanning empire and trillions of Eldar with extreme levels of psychic ability and hedonism to birth Slaanesh and we're supposed to believe the barely psychic humans with just a few tens of millions dying birthed Khorne?

>>52938595

Fedora get out. There was a last Christian on earth by the time the Emperor had won the war of unification.

Have the gods of chaos ever converted xenos into their ranks? It seems odd that they mostly pick on humans even though they gain power from the thoughts and actions of every being with a connection to the warp.

>>52944970
Chaos Eldar are a thing, can be found in the lost crone worlds in the Eye of Terror. Apparently super powerful, but for some reason don't matter. Chaos Orks used to be a thing, I think GW isn't mentioning them anymore.

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>>52944970
Often, major xenos not as much - some or other form of resistance/safeguard typically is what helped them get major in the first place.

Or we go back to Rogue Trader which had all sorts of fun stuff.

>>52937144
Also according to some banshees, Khorne is about bloodshed and rage and killing, where as Khaine is a more "pure form of war" martial war etc....

>>52938511
>Khorne in particular was likely created by Human psychic run-off
Wasn't it implied in older stuff that Khorne finally achieved sentience with Ghengis Khan? Of course, as soon as he tipped over the line to waking up he'd always been awake because lolWarp.

>>52937526
Yes but I don't think the gap is as large as people make out. Khaine managed to hold his own against a very empowered slaanesh (who was currently around on par with khorne)

This puts khaine pretty fucking high, Cegoragh was able to escape the 4 gods. But yes Chaos is stronger

>>52937526
>>52937635

They're stronger, but it kind of depends. When Slaanesh woke up the first time he was overflowing with power. And the Big Four were definitely worried about the Emperor during the Crusade. If the Emperor's plan was useless, they wouldn't have been so eager to stop him. Or call him anathema.

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People will try to debate and deny it, but yes, Khaine the bloody handed war god most certainly is Khorne. To what extend their relationship is, who knows? Is Khaine an alter ego of Khorne, did they just get them mixed up? But theres no doubt about it, the most conclusive evidence is the Avatar of Khaine, it has the same stats as a Bloodthirster and even the daemon special rule. More so Eldar must make a sacrifice to the wraithbone body to "awaken" the avatar. This is Eldar babble, when they sacrifice the young king they are summoning a bloodthirster and binding it to a wraithbone body.

The same is true with Ynnead and Slaanesh, the avatar of Ynnead has the same stats as a Keeper of Secrets. Its kind of funny that the eldars newly born god is in fact an alter ego of the diety they all love, but its kind of obvious. Its a warp entity that feeds on the souls of eldar, and the fluff has always insisted that the Eldar weere doomed and had no hope, Ynnead wasnt a thing until the 6e book. What I find ironic is the 4e(5e?) daemon book had a story about a Keeper of Secrets decieving an entire craftworld into letting it aboard after which it promptly summoned hordes of daemonettes and fed on said craftworld. Ynead is probably a similar story but on a larger scale since this time instead of a KOS lying its way into a single craftworld, its Slaanesh itself lying its way into the entire species.

Simalry, Cegorach is probably Tzeentch- and Asurymen was probably Nurgle. Asurymen is the older brother of Khaine, so he must be Nurgle if Khaine is Khorne. Cegorach is a trickster who has things go just as planned, and survived the fall of the Eldar. We also have stories of Tzeentch and Slaaneshi Daemons using Harlequins to infiltrate craftworlds- Im thinking of a story where it turns out the Solitaire was a named Tzeentch demon who brought in the masque after killing the other performers.

Con't.

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>>52945276
The Eldar pantheon outside of those four, is probably a bunch of OG eldar who were given daemon prince status by Asuryan. This is probably the great separation you hear where the Eldar Gods had to be removed from their mortal children, it was in fact them being granted Daemonhood so they could no longer exist in realspace.

So, the reason Nurgle stole Isha from Slaanesh probably wasn't because he wanted her for himself. Nurgle saved Isha because he loved her and viewed her as his responsibility and always has/will, this also makes sense when you consider that Nurgle is the only caring Chaos God.

The last thing to note is creating Chaos Gods was why the Eldar were created. The entire point of the species was to create a ripple in the warp and birth dieties that could combat the star gods. When you look at it this way, the creation of Slaanesh was their ultimate purpose- The Old Ones plan likely knew a Slaanesh like being would eventually spawn and consume the species and other warp entities before finally combating and killing the Star Gods. Eldar exist to feed and empower Slaanesh, and the other warp gods until they face the same fate the eldar pantheon did. Slaanesh being all consuming is probably why all the other warp gods hate it so much, they fear her.

>>52945276
>when they sacrifice the young king they are summoning a bloodthirster and binding it to a wraithbone body.
Wrong

It is Khaine himself, a fragment of him, true he is a daemon and some Eldar refer to him as the bastard son of khorne, others speculate he is a facet of khorne or some sort of cousin. But he isn't actually Khorne himself. Avatars are not bloodthirsters

>>52945398
Its a WS10 greater daemon. Its a Bloodthirster.

>>52945189
>And the Big Four were definitely worried about the Emperor during the Crusade.

They were not. Read the HH.

>they wouldn't have been so eager to stop him

They were eager to punish him for his betrayal.

I mean for fucksake. A single daemon of Undivided sent the Emperor running. He is no match for the Chaos Gods.

>>52937144
40k gods are all fucked by chaoswank

so wereFabtasy Gods in 8th Ed/End Times, but at least you have the earlier editions with proper world building and depth.

Reducing everything to "lol chaos" is the worst move GW ever made, and pleased only the most extreme chaosfags, while souring the setting for everyone else.

So nobody read the Liber Chaotica?

In the War in Heaven, the Eldar under the guidance of the Old ones built psychic constructs as weapons against the C'tan and Necrons. As the Old Ones started dying out, the Eldar started worshipping these constructs as gods until they eventually evolved into gods.

>>52945177
>Khaine managed to hold his own against a very empowered slaanesh (who was currently around on par with khorne)

Nope, you asshole. Fuck why do you lie. Anti-Chaos faggots have the worse record when it comes to the lore.

In old version, Khaine did not hold his own. He was overwhelmed and seduced by Slaanesh immediately. As he was being sucked up by Slaanesh, Khorne appeared to defend what was his by right. Ending in a draw that destroyed Khaine.

In the newer version, Khaine was curbstomped by Slaanesh royally. Khorne made no appearance at all, and Slaanesh could not suck up Khaine so in rage Slaanesh tore Khaine apart and flung the pieces all over the place.

There is no deity in the setting that can match or approach the Chaos Gods in power. So don't throw your lies and headcanon about.

>>52945493
1. Khaine did hold his own, in the sense that it was a battle, not a curbstomp.

2. Gork and Mork are stronger then Chaos.

>>52945502
>Gork and Mork
Getting desperate?
40k ends with Slaanesh consuming everything, as it began with his birth.

>>52945502
>1. Khaine did hold his own, in the sense that it was a battle, not a curbstomp.

Hold his own means giving a proper fight that can go both ways. Khaine did not. He was seduced in the first one from the start and the second one had Slaanesh defeat him with contemptuous ease.

>2. Gork and Mork are stronger then Chaos.

>then

No wonder you are an idiot.

The lore in all main rulebooks says that the Chaos Gods are the most powerful and dangerous deities in the Warp.

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>>52945493
>There is no deity in the setting that can match or approach the Chaos Gods
BUT... there's one they fear, in their tounge he's Skubkiin, CATO SICARIUS *Ultramarine theme blowing at full force*

>>52945602
Gork and Mork aren't in the Warp you dingus.

>>52945723
Really, retard? Their lore says they are the psychic reflection of the Orks minds in the WARP.

And the 7th ED has Gork and Mork fighting swarms of daemons IN THE WARP.

.

>>52945827
He stopped arguing his point a few posts ago, at this point hes just trying to tell you you're wrong.

>>52945445
>Read the HH.
I did. Nobody exerts that much effort, literally refers to him as Anathema (capitalised), and goes out of their way to try and stop him (and succeed), unless they're genuinely worried about the potential consequences.

And said daemon was only able to hurt him because it was inherently linked to the Emperor and Humanity. It almost died to Custodians and Mechanicum shooting it. I do not understand why people insist on wanking Drach'nyen so hard that they read things that simply aren't there.

>>52946038
>I did. Nobody exerts that much effort, literally refers to him as Anathema (capitalised), and goes out of their way to try and stop him (and succeed), unless they're genuinely worried about the potential consequences.

They were worried about the Webway and his plan for humanity, not him. That's why when the Webway was destroyed, the Emperor knew that he and his race are doomed.

>And said daemon was only able to hurt him because it was inherently linked to the Emperor and Humanity.

Same as athe Chaos Gods which the Emperor was stated to be weak against to the point that confronting them would be suicide for him.

And it goes beyond hurt. He cannot destroy or banish it.

>It almost died to Custodians and Mechanicum shooting it.

And the presence of the blanks sapping at its essence and power.

>>52945461
Like this faggot Carnac or whatever he's called. I see him in literally every thread that has anything remotely to do with 40k blowing cuck'nyen and the chaos gods. I suspect it's adb himself desperately wanking his own fanfiction.

>>52945493
>He was overwhelmed and seduced by Slaanesh immediately

Except he did hold slaanesh off, he wasn't winning but it was a "titanic battle" between the 2, Slaanesh ate up all the other Eldar gods (isha and cegoragh excluded) while Khaine fought slaanesh.

Nurgle popped in during the fight to steal isha, Cegoragh used the time Khaine was buying them to flee into the webway

>>52945424
.... Termagaunts are BS3 and infantry. All termagaunts are imperial guardsmen by your logic.

Khaine is khaine, he is not a bloodthirster. Bloodthirsters are miniature spawns of khorne given a portion of his power. Avatars are little emodiments of Khaine in the physical universe

>>52946307
There is two versions of the story. That line you quoted was about the first version where Khaine seduced and laid down his sword for Slaanesh.

>>52946336
was seduced*

>>52946336
>>52946345
That sounds fucking gay and I have never heard that anywhere? I can only assume it was 2nd edition or earlier

>>52944970
Orks can feel when an ork goes full khornate, and that's not proper orky, and thus get's krumped.
They still have small martial cults of warrior discipline that shuffle members. It's their version of "angsty teenager bullshit".

>>52944970
Orks sometimes but most don't think its orky
Eldar sometimes as well but most live on maiden worlds in the warp and are rarely seen
Lesser xeno races too

>>52946130
dont be pedantic, it was obvious that anon was talking about the emperor not only as a man but also as the ruler that leads humanity.


The whole reason the HH even happened was because the chaos gods knew that the emperor was the only man who could ever bring some type of order to the galaxy, which is bad if you feed off disorder and mayhem. Also the emperor was on the cusp of making a functioning webway, making it even harder for chaos to influence humanity via the warp

>>52946585
He was implying that the Emperor was powerful enough to be a threat to the Chaos Gods which the HH utterly debunks. It's not about him being a leader or anything.

>>52946629
no i wasnt

I meant what this anon said
>>52946585

>>52946320
Wow you're a fucking retard.
Like if termaguants shared special rules and the rest of their statline with guardsmen, maybe! But they do not. An avatar of Khaine has the same stats as a bloodthirster save it has +1 initiative, it has the daemon special rule FFS, so it is a daemon end of story. Greater Demons must be marked, so it must be one of the chaos gods, and I highly doubt its Tzeentch.

The only difference between a bloodthirster and avatar of khaine is one of them is bound to a molten wraithbone body.

>>52944970
In Fulgrim they describe a very Slaaneshi xenos species. I think the first Eisenhorn book has some chaotic xenos too. They're def a thing, but I think the race has to be psychic so that they can have a presence in the warp. IE: There will never be chaos tau.

>>52943183
>Genghis Khan conquests were enough to gestalt Khorne.

>It took the Eldar's galaxy spanning empire and trillions

Their births are not comparable.
Khornes birth is a manifestation of something that has existed as long as sentient life. Slaneesh' birth changed the very fabric of reality and ripped a hole in the galaxy.

I'm not saying the setting is consistent but those two events don't really bare much comparison.

>>52946837
>I think the first Eisenhorn book has some chaotic xenos too
Yeah, Xenos did a decent job with the concept of a species so integrated with Chaos that it pervades every aspect of their being
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Saruthi

>>52946472
Orks will kill converted Orks very quickly. The old lore said that Stormboyz secretly worshipped Khorne, which is why they have a more regimented look

Basically Khaine was created by the Eldars as a weapon, Khorne was born naturally from hatred and anger

>>52943183
Not really wierd. The central thesis of 40k is essentially humans are better than everyone at everything and more important in every way, so whereas minor conquerors from earth become 3/4's of the galaxy's greatest powers xenos have only ever produced a single (weakest) of these gods when they were at their zenith.

Kinda like how all the strongest psykers, warriors and thinkers are also human

>>52947139
Eldar are inherently superior to humans in every way tho wat.
Only reasons humans took Eldars place was because of the fall.

>>52947291
Not really. Eldar Psykers aren't even near the top 5 strongest Psykers, those are humans. Best leaders and thinkers are also human, with Dark Age of Technology tech far outstripping Eldar.

Besides even at the height of their power Eldar were, at best, comparable to Humanity. Eldar are quite significantly inferior to humanity within the setting, as all races are. The best at all feats are always humans.

>>52947325
Eldrad is not one of the top 5 psykers? Like what humans are more powerful psykers than him? Primarchs and the Emperor don't count, they're gods.

>>52947325
>with Dark Age of Technology tech far outstripping Eldar
Oh boy, here we go.

>>52947349
Emperor and Primarchs do count, absolutely no reason to arbitarily discard them. They're not gods, never have been said to be.

Besides Tigurius literally has a better track record with predictions than Eldrad does, Artemis is said to have a greater gift for presience than him too and Malcador has way more impressive Psyker powers than Eldrad. Ahriman, also, defeated Kyaduras easily and then insta-beat the Yncarnate with ease, so he's way above Eldrad too.

But anyways, Primarch and Emps do count, no reason not to count them.

>>52947375
The God Emperor of mankind who was a 20ft tall uber psychic being was most certainly a god. Primarchs created from his genetics are demi-gods. None of them are human outside of appearance, they are unto normal humans as the Eldar gods were unto them.

On the tabletop though, arent Ahriman and Eldrad both mastery 4, and isnt tiger only 3?

>>52947421
I'm only talking lore.

Emperor never said to be a God. Master of Mankind makes very clear he's just a human with really strong Psychic. Primarchs aren't Gods either, and they're definitely way stronger than the Eldar's Gods ever were.

Humans better Psykers, Warriors, more fearless, widespread, smarter, well-organized and successful than all other species. Easy.

>>52947353
Much as I hate the idea, from what we've seen in fluff, I'd probably have to agree with the poster on this. Considering the type of equipment we've seen Forgeworld and novels say the Age of Technology humans had access too, the Eldar tech pales in comparison.

Necron tech still seems comparable though.

>>52947450
>from what we've seen in fluff
We've seen nothing in the fluff regarding Eldar tech before the fall. There is no comparison.

>>52938391

There's a theory that the Ad Mech's deity is the current rendition of Abrahamic God given that they worship a trinity with the Emperor being one of the components and the Emperor himself being said to have once gone under the guise of Jesus, as well as the Ad Mech's heavy Orthodox-esque imagery.

The Last Church can be taken as the Emperor pulling a "you have failed me" to his last set of followers and replacing them with a new set who became everything he loathed about their predecessors on a galactic scale. In abandoning his church, the end result was something even worse than before with all the faults of the old.

>>52947486
No, we have. We know the Fireheart is considered a 'Superweapon' of the ancient Eldar Empire. We also see the ancient Eldar for a time in the Asurmen novel.

So we do have material to make a comparison about. Considering the Age of Technology humans were never wiped out we can probably assume the Eldar didn't have technology potent enough fo that either. We also know the Eldar still use their old makes of ships, and none of them demonstrate abilities anywhere near seen on some Mechanicus novels in the fluff.

>>52937144
one is god of murder, the one is god of blood

the first represents desire to kill your enemy
the second represent primal bloodlust and bloodrage

>>52943183

Genghis Khan's conquests were the trigger which set off a chain reaction that was already eons in the making long before humanity had forged its first blades. That it was a relative gentle push in comparison to the practical ass shove that was the Eldar's hedonism is irrelevant. If anything, it at least shows that the various races of the 40k verse would errr towards pleasure versus violence.

>>52941011
Oh my god, I never realised Tuska chopped off a bloodhtirster's dick.

Truly he is the greatest warboss.

>>52947436
>and they're definitely way stronger than the Eldar's Gods ever were.

Nope. The Eldar Gods fought the full intact C'tan.

Primarchs get defeated by an Ork Warboss and 20 marines.

>>52947518
>Considering the Age of Technology humans were never wiped out
Because the Eldar were the undisputed masters of the galaxy for longer than humanity even existed. They were a tiny faction that couldn't do shit until the Eldar killed themselves. Eldar didn't care, that's all.

>>52947518
Dude, the fluff says the Eldar gave zero fucks about anything outside their empire and pleasures. What's with the sexual need for you to wank humanity and rape the lore for it?

So are the eldar gods still probably the remnants of the Old Ones or are we not doing that any more?

>>52947535
Not canon. Picture related.

In War in Heaven, A titanic Khornate daemon was arrested by the Necrons and sentenced for eternal imprisonment in any icy prison locked within the heart of a world. He was not alone. The world contains many daemonic prisoners serving their time.

If Khorne was birthed in the middle ages, then how come his daemons were active in the War in Heaven? Checkmate.

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>>52947617
forgot my picture.

>>52947597
see >>52945464

>>52945343
I thought that her case was a giant censor bar

>>52947617
Once chaos gods are created they kind of have always existed, they exist beyond time. It's kind of fucky.

I mean, if khorne is billions of years old, then why was his first daemon prince a mongol? Because he was created around the times when the mongols were doing shit, and then retroactively existed.

>>52947569
Tiny faction? Humanity literally spread over the entire galaxy. The Eldar were just a rump state they ignored because Humanity's technology by then included mastery of space and time.

>>52947630
Oh, that's cool.

So does Qah still LINGER or no?

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>>52947660
> then why was his first daemon prince a mongol?

The first daemon prince of the Four Gods was Be'lakor and Be'lakor has memories of the times before the War in Heaven.

>>52947699
How was a human alive back then?

>>52947661
They had colonies here and there, but they did not spread over the entire galaxy. Meanwhile webway gates everywhere.

>>52947699
>The first daemon prince of the Four Gods was Be'lakor and Be'lakor has memories of the times before the War in Heaven.

Presumably the princes themselves also transcend time, being demons as they are. I mean, the alternative is he was, what, a Necrontyr? Did the necrontyr even have a psychic presence? Because he doesn't look like a Slann or whatever the Old Ones presumably were.

>>52947699
>The first daemon prince of the Four Gods was Be'lakor

Don't you mean first and last? ;^)

>>52947714
Its repeatedly said they conquered the galaxy. Eldar were little bitches compared to Humanity, stil are.

>>52937144
Khaine is created by Eldar, Khorne by Humans
So like Eldar, Khaine is a noble. while as Humans, Khorne is a mon-keigh with autism of Warp.

>>52947771
And how do you explain the "undisputed masters", you little HFY-fag?

>>52938526
And thats actually a pretty large advantage. Imagine Trillions of Humans oriented on single purpose.

>>52944970
Other races are dying out (except tau, who are warp-neutral), while humans multiply even more rapidly despite the fact that Imperium is a literal shithole now. Do the math.

>>52947780
If Khorne is a human god why does the fluff ever both saying the Chaos Gods feed off more than humans?

I never got this. To all extends and purposes in fluff the Chaos Gods are only ever depicted as Gods of Humans. Even Slaanesh is really a human God, he has no Eldar followers, he never grants favours to the Eldar, he only really blesses and interacts with humans. So why does GW make dumb little token mentions to Chaos Gods being anything more than human gods?

>>52947869
Orks? Tyranids? Why don't these get turned to Chaos?

Or what about Hrud? They aren't dying out.

>>52947886
They feed on everyone, but certain race participated more than other. Eldar Participated more in creating slaanesh, but it doesnt mean that humans didn't, but it was more insignificant.
Likewise, Humans have a lions portion of creating Khorne. Eldars didn't participate at large because, they had Khaine.

Also, retarded question: Is rivalry between Slaanesh and Khorne a reflection of rivalry between Humans and Eldars?

>>52947897
orks are dumb, and tyranids even dumber hiveminds (and I think that tyranids are warp neutral).
and orks do have gork and mork.

>>52947955
So why dot he Chaos Gods only ever have Human servants?

If they only ever interact with humans, only ever bless humans, only ever work with humans, then what's the point of anything else?

>>52938174
So moderation, if I may temperance is Slaanesh most hated thing?

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Gav Thorpe said Khaine is mixed Khorne and Slaanesh

as all lesser gods are mixes of the 4 greater powers

Gav Thorpe is the king of Eldar fluff so take his word as gospel

>>52947964
A lot of xeno races are mentioned to serve Chaos.

>>52947964
The writing is fellating humans whenever possible.

>>52947964
Humans are prime psyker race alongside with Eldar. However, compared to Eldar, they are easier to corrupt.
Q:Why are huans easier to corrupt?
A:lore
there are Eldar chaos followers to, but they reside in eye of terror, iirc

>>52940644
But Warp is the pure stuff of Chaos.

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>>52947964
Because Humans are badass even if world shits on mankind from every side

>>52938188
I'm prone to occasionally overthinking stuff, but Khorne may embody desire for absolute freedom - complete destruction of any and all limits one has, starting with one's own complacency and doubt and ending with the whole of existence.

>>52948086
Humans are a better Psyker race than Eldar.

Also I have never heard of these Chaos Eldar. If that's the case why aren't their Chaos Eldar Daemon Princes of Slaanesh?

>>52948728
>Humans are a better Psyker race than Eldar.
err, no.
There are humans that surpass the most powerful Eldar psykers (and at large quantities), but overall, average Eldar is a stronger psyker than average Human.

>>52947780
>So like Eldar, Khaine is a noble. while as Humans, Khorne is a mon-keigh with autism of Warp.

I sense pointy eared xeno scum in this thread

>>52947568
DELET THIS HUMANS CAN'T BE THAT WEAK
>>52949056
It's strange that you can smell anything over the pungent, lurid humawank in this thread.

>>52948019
Only to a certain point. Like anything, temperance and self denial taken to extremes will end up feeding Slaneesh.

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>>52937144
before humans enter the picture the elder had complete control over the warp.
They used their collective psychic will to create their gods and turn the warp into their private afterlife from where they could reincarnate at any time.

Eventually they let their guard down and they birthed the 4th. By that time shit was already going down the drain fast anyways though. Humans had become psychic and they didn't even bother trying to control their emotions and the humans fed the big three to the point they overran the Eldar's defenses in the warp. The Eldar gods in the warp lost their strength because most of the Eldar whos belief in the gods empowered them, were dead.

its a sad story.

>>52947436
Don't be such a marine fag. We all know Primarchs are powerful but they weren't more powerful than Warp Gods.

>>52948033
Gav Thorpe is a faggot. He almost gets it but just falls short every time.
What was wrong with the older fluff where Khorne and Slaanesh fight other him so he splits HIMSELF up and scatters himself to the craftworlds? that was fucking fine.

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>>52937230

There is no distinction between any of the gods, Chaos merely exists as a means of compartmentalizing four gods and their servants.

>>52938188

This is a good description of it and I don't know why people are dead set on trying to ascribe something more than base blood lust to Khorne. If you want to say your army only kills the worthy because they believe that is what pleases Khorne the most, that's fine, but he really doesn't give a shit.

>>52938635

GW never did. I blame that fucking Genzoman picture for people thinking Khorne is just some generic skeleton in armor and that Slaanesh is primarily female. Surprisingly he managed to get Tzeentch correct instead of just making a bigger Lord of Change.

>>52948728
>Why arent their Chaos Eldar Demon Princes of Slaanesh
There are.

>>52937526
A lot of the warp is powered by emotions and belief. The more the eldar declined, the less powerful their gods. The more worshippers or people afraid/angry/treacherous/lustful in excess the more powerful the chaos gods. Same thing with Gork and Mork and even the emperor

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>>52937144
>Just how is Khaine different from Khorne.
Khorne's no pussy, that's how. And his champ is pretty swell lad

>>52945720
>*Ultramarine theme blowing at full force*
You mean this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu8bEljrolk

Khaine only exists in 40k because he existed in Fantast. 40k was originally intended to be the logical extension of the fantasy universe, but they changed that fairly quick.

>>52948019
Yes. Except moderation taken to the extreme. Then it actually benefits Slaanesh.

>>52938952
I think Kharn has 'died' like three times now. If I recall, actually, it might be implied more, now, from Traitors Hate and a recent novel where he fights Azrael.

Apparently Khorne just keeps bringing him back because the net gain of skulls and blood is always astronomically in Kharn's favor when it's time to collect.

>>52938595
And Ollanius is Catholic in the Horus Heresy series.

Khaine is and Eldar god, who is actually protecting his creator race. (and less evil)
Khorne is a chaos god, that feeds upon every sentient entity in universe, but is primary a human god.
Simply put, Khorne is a human version of Khaine.
So khaine is like an Eldar: Murderous but still fancy and somewhat noble. Khorne is like Human: murderous and more instinctive and aggressive (and Autistic)
And He got beaten up by slaanesh, but khorne laid claim on his sorry ass, since they share similar spheres. At the end, while khorne was beating slaanesh, Khaine shard in 1000 pieces (perhaps because khorne forgot his axe, so he was using poor khaine as one.).

>>52948870

the only reason humans have psykers who are stronger than eldar is because humans don't have a chaos god looking for them 24/7

eldar have to channel warp juice through wraithbone intermediaries instead of conducting it directly like humans do because if they tried they would explode horribly into daemons.

if slaanesh was no longer a thing the eldar would be able to do all the stupid shenanigans that they used to be able to do

>>52955746
or because humans are the main characters and have more named characters than all non-humans combined?

>>52950191
Thats almost completely wrong.

The Eldar Gods were created by the Old Ones along with the Eldar to combat the Necrons during the War in Heaven though it's true the power of these Gods did come from psychic assistance of their followers. Some of the Necron Phaerons actually battled these Gods head on since the C'tan had trouble dealing with their highly warp based nature.

The majority of the Eldar had abandoned their Gods by and large hundreds of Millenia before the Fall since a dispute between Khaine and the Eldar caused Asuryan the Phoenix King to forbid all the Eldar deities from ever making contact with their subjects ever again.

Humans were becoming Psychic because of the Eldar causing a disturbance in the Warp in their debauchery and the gestation of Slaanesh having a physical effect on the rest of the Galaxy. The Eldar Gods died during the birth of Slaanesh when she consumed them.

>>52956555
revisionist terra centric human history right there

>>52937173
Go fuck yourself you passive aggressive cunt, you're not on whineseer now.

>>52955746

Humans have psykers that can be stronger than Eldar psykers because as a race it runs the gamut from no ability whatsoever (Negative if you count the Pariah gene) to stupidly powerful. Not to mention that humans with significant psychic powers almost always have to be taught how to control their powers lest things eventually go bad for them and everyone around them. Eldar are much more stable in terms of both power and control, at most they uses runes as warning signs that they're drawing on too much power.

It says a lot that the majority or at least a large number are fated to at best become Astropaths and at worst fuel for either the Emperor or the Astronomican.

>>52946991
that was also back when khorne was an ordered and marshalled god as opposed to the mindless bullshit he is now

>>52947712
He comes from another universe.

>>52947749
He's a human from another universe.

from what I understand Khaine is more about slaughter and not caring how you do it. Like in fantasy where you have the dark elf assasins worshipping him. And Khorne seemed to enjoy more of the "Honorable" forms of combat or just brutal cqc

>>52958134

He still is ordered, you can care primarily about killing and yet still order your forces. The martial honor shit only comes from a brief blurb in Adeptus Titanicus, Slaves to Darkness says nothing about it. I guess people only latched on to it because they want an example of something to bitch about, even if it doesn't exist, or they don't realize that even if Khorne is just about killing that you can still do the martial honor thing as something he servants may personally believe.

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Replace 'opinion' with iheadcanoni and you get this thread.

>>52959099
otherwayaround
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

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>>52938595

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Some dude said that Bloodletters and Bloodthirsters are twisted human souls. how true is that? Couldn't find anything about it?
If its true could this be a link between Khorne and Humanity like Eldar and Slaanesh?

>>52948870
Doesn't change the fact. Humans are stronger Psykers than Eldar. Despite the Eldar's main hat being that they are the greatest Psykers, they simply aren't. The Emperor and Magnus alone are stronger than any and all Eldar Psykers have ever been.

Humans are, in 40k, literally the best at everything. There is nothing in faction does, that there will not be a human who does it better.

>>52962754
Emperor is an exception. He is not human, but collective of deceased shamans, as said earlier.
I'm talking about overall average racial feature. not individual.

>>52962786
Bunch of Shamans = Stronger than Chaos Gods and all Eldar ever.


Yeah that's then clear evidnce that humans are better psykers than Eldar seeing as those Shamans are from before humanity even had their freaking psychic awakening.

Besides doens't chagne the Primarchs and people like Malcador being stronger Psykers than Eldar too. Humans are just the strongest Psykers in the setting, with only the Hive Mind being a potential rival.

the level of literacy and my faction could beat up your faction in this thread are startlingly reminiscent of the old gw forums. not good.
also
>>abd
>>mom
>>legitimate sources on anything except adb's desire to blow the armless failure

>>52962882
To be fair the Imperium beats all other factions. We've literally seen this happen in every major war, so the arguments are mostly non-Imperium players who can't handle the lore.

>>52946815
.... Maybe, just maybe, kinda like we've fucking wolf spirits thingies on Planet Yiff, being a daemon doesn't mean being associated with Chaos.

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES!

>>52962882
Yeah, it's obvious that no faction can beat the Imperium in anything. Why won't any of these nay-sayers just pack up?