Warhammer 40k General - /40kg/

New movement stuff
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/

In before being able to fall back voluntarily from CC probably meaning tactics don't mean anything in 8th edition arguments

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FIRST FOR THE CRIMSON KING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sblR0eIRW-I

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Looks like my list from (mostly) 5ed will be even more of a Glass Cannon in 8th
>DE will be "Alpha Strike or Bust" again
Praise Vect!

>>52930176
>The guy she tells you not to worry about

>>52930173
Any change they make equates into all tactics being removed from the game.

They're in full "sky is falling" mode.

Funny thing is they'll all buy 8th and be playing it at launch.

>>52930153
So will this mean T1 assaulting will be allowed again, since it's no longer a death sentence?

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>>52930176
WE IT JUST WERKS NAO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHJ7An2CMB4

>>52930177
Why do you say that?

>>52930213
>Buying 8th

>>52930173
U fucking joking m7?
That would distract me from muh templates.

>>52930222
>2 talissera bond knives
this guy has a lot of friends

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>>52930222
>Tau
>Close combat
Please, even humies iz tougher than you gits!

>>52930221
Because i have horrible feeling that DE/Eldar will be played like Slaanesh in AoS
>Shitloads of rending and speed
>if you are focussed you die in a round of combat
Being that assaulters always go first, means that high I hurts us. Not to mention we need to see what GW are going to do to Jink + skimmers

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Post your dudes' reactions to the new galaxy wide anomaly

>>52930216
Possibly.

I wish Posessed will get new models, better rules, and remain troops for WB. I'd love to just run an all Daemon CSM army for fun.

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>>52930296

>>52930272
>gee shas'nel, why does the Ethereal let you have two Tal'issera bonding knives?

>>52930286
Iniative stat is just gone.
Other than chargers strike first assault order is done by alternating activations.

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>>52930296

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>>52930311

>>52930322
Yeah, hence that Eldar are going to lose out with assault on 8th
The only way i see us not being hurt is GW letting dedicated DE CC units ignore cover

That last sneak peek was worded really shitty... Grenades-shitty

Remove nids and orks

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>>52930296
Since Tau FTL work by doing short dips into the warp, is that massive fissure going to act as a superhighway for Tau to spread groriousry throughout the galaxy?

I hope so.

Friendly reminder
Unit position is not tactics, its unnessicary detail.

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>>52930296

>>52930148

God I hope we can pick our stuff again.

>>52930343
Plastic non-monopose models

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>>52930296
Fucking upstarts

>>52930173
This just means your tactics need to change. Falling back in aos is usually worse than just staying in combat, but thats because you can shoot into combat, hopefully they dont allow that in 40k. What i wouldve liked to see is if you fall back you roll a die and on a 1 your opponent gets some free attacks. This would be better than the current "you lost morale and didnt get away, youre all dead" or "you lost morale and everyone gets away". They are trying to combat melee deathstars.

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>>52930153
>Running has been rolled into the Movement phase now, too. You can “Advance” when you move by rolling a dice and adding the result to your Movement to go a bit faster at the expense of shooting.
So you're saying my mob of foot-slogging Choppa boyz moves into close combat even faster now?
Now that's something I can get behind!

>>52930376
Somehow tau ftl method reminds me of an asian manlet humping an amazon's

>Charging not in the movement phase
>Running is random

I hope to fuck that random charge distances are gone, holy shit. Or at he least they're M+d6

>>52930390
It has already been confirmed that shooting into and out of combat is not allowed in 8th edition. Somebody posted a screencap of the tweet recently, I'll try dig it up

>>52930213
I will defend armor/toughness facings to the death!

Kinda liked templates but won't mourn their passing, and everything else is great!

Fall Back moves look fucking awesome

>>52930376
That is actually very interesting. On one side there's that big firewall preventing their escape without massive losses. On the other side.. convenient galaxy-warpstorm you can surf all the way to the fucking Eye.

>>52930376
Oh fuck no.
Fuck you blueberries. You're worse than people crying for plastic sisters.

>>52930412
It'll be the Sigmar system, which i love.
It's just M + d6 and you can't shoot

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>>52930384
Some basic modeling can change up the poses a bit. Nothing you can do about plastic however.

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>>52930296
Dude we are Slaaneshi, this is a cause for celebration.

...wonder if hit and run will just become 'You can fall back and still shoot'. That would be nice.

>>52930222
>>52930272
>>52930319

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XJOoGQV0bmk

>>52930414
We dont that facings are gone, they may exist but as wounding or save mods.

>>52930376
I really hope this happens and we get oceanic age of sails tau with hardened explorers and sick tatoos on battlesuits

>>52930384
All the monopose shit is really spoiling the hobby

>>52930431
Oh you shut your whore mouth. Most of the models are going to be legal around the world

Speculation on how independent characters are going to work in the new edition?

I saw someone saying they can't join units, but can take 'look out sir' style saves from nearby friendly units. Not sure if that's official or not.

If that is the case, how are precision shots likely to work? A modifier to that save?

I can see sniping characters being pretty easy; just pile shots onto them and hope that they fail a few of the saves and if not, you probably hit a unit anyway. Nasty suspicion that most characters are going to have huge pools of wounds to make up for this.

Another possibility is that each character has bespoke rules for how they can avoid being targeted.

I'm leery of bespoke rules, because they have traditionally been very biased against the weaker armies. Imagine every single rule that you have being written with the same mentality that gave us the current Mob Rule or Instinctive Behaviour...

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>>52930457
as long as they don't kill off Slaanesh like they did in AoS

>>52930412
>Running is random
...like it was in 7th and 6th edition too?

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>>52930529
it's inevitable

>>52930493
>we get oceanic age of sails tau with hardened explorers and sick tatoos on battlesuits
This assumes the blueberries' empire won't get nommed by the nids or krumped hard by Ghazghkull's WAAAGH! during Gathering Storm.

Though I do admit the Tau actually spreading beyond their little hidey-hole in the Eastern Fringe is an interesting thought.

>>52930546
And it was bad in both.

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>>52930296

>>52930553
they won't because waaaghs and hivefleets are after larger preys

>>52930524
IC can join units, in the livestream they gave an example of what keywords do with a SM captain joining a IG platoon but not giving it his special rule because of keyword space marines.

>>52930390
>They are trying to combat melee deathstars.

By allowing them to bypass tarpit units?

>>52930395
You are aware that running is already in the core rules for infantry, right? All this seems to do is lump things like moving flat out or turbo boosting into the same rule as running and change the phase it happens in (which makes no real difference except you can just calculate your total move and move your models once rather than twice).

>>52930553
Big question is how will they do with teur supply lines cut off.

That's a big issue for a civilization where everything is either prototypes or "repaired" by chamging entire assemblys.

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>>52930296

>>52930583
It's a rare waagh or hive fleet that wont take a small diversion for fresh dakka or a light lunch.

>>52930485
Ethereal Mo'Szyslak

Any speculation on how psychic power might work?

I'm hoping it'll be 6th ed style casting with powers being buyable for points and psykers either being made cheaper to reflect this or being given an allowance of free points to buy powers with that reflect their mastery level.

>>52930376 here

Adding to this post, I hope that giant warp anomaly shits Daemons all over the Empire, and the Tau have to flee for their lives along the new superhighway. Without their massive resource base, Suits become valuable relics that are no longer able to be mass-manufactured, and they have to rely more on their lightly armoured troops and existing tanks. Give them a 'lost empire' flavour to fit them more into 40k, and make them really aggro refugees who suddenly swarm sectors they never have before, trying to claim new land for the Empire.

I play Tau and fuck Stormsurges, Riptides and Ghostkeels. 5th Ed lists are perfectly viable, big suits are EZ mode.

>>52930395
Running is just moved from shooting phase to movement phase. It's exactly the same, except you declare it earlier in the turn. I guess now you'll need to be better at determining how much firepower you need in a particular turn, since you can't run after shooting shit.

>>52930594
The key difference here is you can't run a unit that would have shot but their target has been destroyed by a friendly unit already. Instead you have to commit entirely to running or not.

>>52930594
>By allowing them to bypass tarpit units?
By preventing them from hiding in cc.

>>52930666
but I like big suits and cannot lie

although I really like Tau vehicles as well.

>>52930665
I like that idea. The whole warp charge thing never sat right with me. Probably why I run a full null maiden task force with pretty much every army I have

>>52930390
Why not just make it like overwatch. If you leave combat he gets to hit on 6s

I am fucking tired of my Eldars and want to join Chaos.

What do they offer?

>>52930529
...sauce?
if she's not a trap

>>52930583
Hive fleets send off little splinters to get all the small worlds too

>>52930707
wait 2 months and we'll know.

For now, they add less than marines (CSM), hordes and hordes of people (Renegades), very good rules (CD) and acceptable rules (KD)

>>52930583
iirc, there was a blurb at one of the last Tau vs. Imperium campaigns about Farsight rushing off to defend a Tau colony from a tendril of Hive Fleet Leviathan, so the 'nids from that fleet already know about the blueberries. And since the tendril fighting the Octarius War is probably going to lose (since Ghazzy's involved and he's been stomping the shit out of the bugs left & right. That and plot armor), that Hive Fleet will likely focus on the other 2 targets it knows about:
The Tau Empire and Terra.

>>52930529
>>52930715
Sauce if she is.

>>52930707
Fedoras, Obesity, belligerence, weird fetishes
just like 4chan

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>>52927067
>>52927075
First he was afraid, He was petrified
Kept thinking he could never live without his riptide
And he spent so many nights thinking how (you) did him wrong
And he grew strong and he learned how to get along
And now he's back, from outer space
He just walked in to find (you) here with that look upon your face
He should have changed that stupid rule
He should have made (you) leave your meme
If he had known for just one second (you)'d be back to bother him
Go on now, go, walk out the door
Just turn around now 'cause (you)'re not welcome anymore
Weren't (you) the one who tried to break me with goodbye?
Did you think he'd crumble, did you think he'd lay down and die?
Oh, no, not T'au, He will survive

>>52930707
Awesome aesthetics and customization, 3+ save minimum on your marines. plus a wide variety in your Daemon allies.

>you can just walk away from close combat
RIP CC units.

>>52930715
Lana Rain methinks

>>52930724
>>52930745
>>52930755
Sounds lame. I will stick to my Aeldaris :^)

>>52930768
You're correct, the video is bad, she's just masturbating.

>>52930766
>They get a second turn of charges
Durr hurr, anon

>>52930733
>>52930715

not a trap
eroshare com/663idq4o

>>52930793
This. Also most likely super specialized CC units will get some kind of sweeping advance special rule

>>52930768
>>52930778
Last I knew all her stuff was cosplay masterbation.

>>52930778
I for one grew to like masturbation videos after disliking them for the longest time

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>>52930138
>Chaos finally gets a Legions book
>Great formations with fluffy legion rules
>lol 8th ed ignores all of these

IT'S. JUST. NOT. FAIR.

>>52930766
>>52930793
We've also heard you can spend command points for out-of-sequence charge, which may allow IMMEDIATE re-charging.

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Hahahahahahahaha How The Fuck Is Close Combat Real Hahahaha Nigga Just Walk Away Like Nigga Just Run Haha

>>52930793
After they eat a turn of shooting.

>>52930825
Formations are garbage

>>52930153
I like the sound of this change. As long as assault units are fast enough, it feels like it'll put it and shooting on a more even playing field.

>>52930775
Why are Eldar players so fucking arrogant and smug?

>>52930833
So don't charge your guys into stacked gunlines. It's much more realistic and offers better tactical possibilities

>>52930806
Vaguely disappointing vid

This anon is still a 10/10 bro

>>52930707
Word Bearers can legally field an entire army of Daemons.

>>52930846
Because Elves are smug. So space elves must be smug... IN SPACE.

>>52930831
You do realize that this means that there isn't any reason to prevent assaults from deep strike/reserves now with this, and that the Tau probably aren't going to still keep their massive supporting fire bubbles or maybe even overwatch at all.

You can fall back all you want, but for Tau that's gonna be a couple dudes fleeing for their lives.

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>>52930846
Because they can...

>>52930825
8e is making at least the cult Legions into their own armies though.

>>52930841
This also means you actually want your melee units to be as choppy as possible.

Always found it retarded that you didn't really want melee units that could wipe out other units, as that meant they wouldn't be able to hide in CC for a round.

>>52930861
Daemons can legally field an entire army of daemons without having to bring their retarded servants along.

>>52930693
Thats fine too, anything is better than all or nothing

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>>52930296

>>52930825
That's what happens when you make deals with the (4) devils

>>52930177
wow look!! its literraly the exact same DE list as all other DE all over the world since the 2 last codex.

>>52930831
Hahha turn 1 charges will be a thing and we're going to be hitting on 5s haha and our overwatch is probably going away too and our railguns won't one-shot vehicles hahahahahaha

>>52930669
>I guess now you'll need to be better at determining how much firepower you need in a particular turn, since you can't run after shooting shit.
So... just declare my boyz are running the first couple turns, and then just my choppas while my shootas move and shoot like normal?

Works just fine for me anon.

>>52930594
>You are aware that running is already in the core rules for infantry, right?
Anon, I haven't played a proper game of 40k in years. I'm still trying to remember half the rules as it is.

>>52930851
>So don't charge your guys into stacked gunlines.

Alternatively, charge lots of stuff at once. If the opponent chooses to Fall Back out of combat, half their army isn't going to be shooting that turn. This, combined with the loss of Initiative and charges always striking first, makes me think that 8th edition will reward going all-in on combat. If you just take one or two small melee units they won't accomplish much, but an entire army charging at once will be devastating. We'll see if the new edition actually gives these armies the means to get there intact.

>>52930594
Okay, you disengage from the tar pit, now what? Your 12" away from about 30 angry conscripts and the tanks are on the other side of the blob. And now your in rapid fire range. Are you going to go around the blob because I know what I'm doing with my conscripts and it rhymes with "breading pout"

>>52930896
>100 hormogaunts charging every turn while the enemy tries desperately to run away
holy fuck I am so god damned hyped for 8e

>>52930878
That's another good point. Now wiping out an entire squad because you kill them really fast is a good thing, since you'll be standing in the open anyway.

Now the trick is to charge things that won't easily have someone else nearby to back them up.

You could also make use of cheap distraction charges in this way. If there's 3 squads in a gunline, just have your one real assault squad charge, and two other cheap units charge the other things. If they all fall back, they can't shoot, and you can just drive them away or kill them.

>>52930918
Also, from a Tyranid perspective; you won't have to worry about big broods of Hormagaunts or whatever preventing your Hive Tyrants and Carnifexes from making it into close combat. You can pull the brood out freely and send in the big monsters.

>>52930918
>An green tide of orks relentlessly charging into IG battle lines, who desperately retreat to return fire after every charge

My inner fluff bunny is so excite.

>>52930959
In practice those hormagaunts are just going to be pulped by artillery before they get their second charge, because armies have more things on them than just infantry.

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Flamer and horde army time to shine!

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>>52930896
>Alternatively, charge lots of stuff at once
>Alternatively
>Not realizing 'Green Tide' and Gaunt Rush! are Ork and 'nid bread and butter, and don't have to worry about that pesky Initiative stuff anymore
8e is shaping up to be very beneficial to the melee gits!

I do wonder now with the idea that a lot of units like hormagaunts etc. being much faster and charging first, will the recommended table size need to increase to compensate. My group does 1k games on 4x4s and occasionally 1500 which pushes the limits on space especially with our dense terrain.

>>52930961
I am so looking forward to my Zulu Skitarii. Now Vanguard will no longer be able to hide the GSC units from my guns because there's 1/5 Vanguard left. We can lay down a series of Aegis lines backed with Dunecrawlers and such and actually use them. I'm sad for no templates and I liked Armour Values a lot, but everything else looks good if they don't make everything too padded sumo.

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>>52930917
Even better two lines of conscript.
both lines shoot
then the 1st line is assaulted
then they disengage
the assaulting force which likely has shit guns shoots
Then both conscript lines regroup and fire along with the leman russes behind them.

I am fine with this.

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>>52930296

DE reporting in,

>mfw a plethora of imperial worlds are now isolated from outside assistance

>>52931027
>it is the grim darkness of the 40th millennium, and all humans have evolved into flounder fish

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>>52930296

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>>52931063

>>52931034
You are supposed to play on 6x4 for stuff above 1k

Do we have any comment on whether tanks have armour facing.

So last time I checked /tg/ people were crying over 8th, what's up now?

>>52931114
They seemingly don't.

>>52930961
Then you're dumb because this is an intentional nerf to close combat armies that allows people to shoot them more often.

The only close combat units that won't be negatively affected are ones that would wipe out the target on the first charge. Big units of low quality melee troops will be getting the dick really hard.

>>52930896
Of course, if the half of the army that just disengaged is conscripts and infantry squads, and the half of the army that's shooting consists of leman russes, heavy weapons teams, and artillery, then you might just have a harder time if it than you expect.

I think I know how commissars vs priests will work now: commissars reroll moral checks and get summery execution, but priests are immune to battleshock BUT cannot choose to leave combat.

>>52931122

That's just fucking stupid.

I hope a 9th Age comes along for 40K. GW seems to have thrown their toys out the pram because they couldn't even balance a simple mechanic like armour.

>>52931138
7th edition is so fucking bad I'd rather play this dumb shit than continue to play 7th.

If we're going to be regressive we should go all out and play 2nd, 3rd or 4th.

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>>52931029
Bring it, I will First rank fire, Second rank fire you filthy greenskins into soldering mush.

>>52931020
>In practice those hormagaunts are just going to be pulped by artillery before they get their second charge

Enjoy those D6 hits per shot :^)

>>52931063
>>52931076
>direct connection between the realm of Slaanesh and the dark city
>daemons pouring in, kabals falling one by one
>Vect has jumped ship
>everyone is fleeing to Ynnari
Sorry bud, your pirate days are over.

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>>52930222
>Tau are a melee race
>WS2

>>52931168

Well saying that 7th edition was total shit that you'd happily play something that is half shit is not really a good reason to play 8th.

Can we not expect something better for the worlds largest miniature manufacturer.
I would settle for a -1 toughness on the rear armour.

>>52931194
If we get D6 for a simple flamer, how many D6 do you think a wyvern is going to spew?

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>>52931136
just so long as I can continue rerolling moral checks until I get the one I want.

>TFW you shoot 5 of 10 remaining conscripts to reroll to pass Ld5 on 2d6.

>>52931218
>I would settle for a -1 toughness on the rear armour.

Might still be a thing, we don't know all vehicle rules yet

>>52931221
an unreasonable amount I hope.

>>52931218
There still might be benefits or penalties for shooting a tank in the back or front, but we don't know more details than what we've got now.

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>>52931221
>>52931245

M'lady

>>52931221
2D6 twin-linked. Because why the fuck were Wyverns allowed that much dakka for that point post in the first place?

>>52931221
4D6, so an average of 14 hits.

>>52931245
For a large blast it's got to be at least 2d6.

>>52931225
SUMMARY EXECUTION!
>But you already passed-
IT WASNT GOOD ENOUGH I WANT SNAKEEYES!

>>52931221
4d6 rerolling the d6s for number of shots

>>52931275
I'd be surprised if small blast-equivalents inflict more than D3 hits. The Wyvern is probably in line for a nerf anyway, or at least a points hike.

>>52931136
>I think I know how commissars vs priests will work now: commissars reroll moral checks and get summery execution...

If morale really kills dudes now, I think the obvious commissar rule would be to limit it to one casualty.

>>52931221
>>52931274
>>52931275
I do feel like 2d6 with the ability to re-roll the dice would fit well for them.

>>52931194
>vehicles can probably get tied up by lictors just showing up and standing next to them
I really hope they let us assault from deepstrike

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>>52931272
As if I would give you the time of day vile xeno. Well maybe for a 3k+ game.

>>52931127
>Then you're dumb because this is an intentional nerf to close combat armies that allows people to shoot them more often.
From the new Fall Back announcement:
>If you’re in combat at the start of your turn, you can Fall Back by moving away from the enemy. You’ll lose the ability to advance, shoot or charge that turn, and crucially, enemies will be able to shoot at you!
>You’ll lose the ability to advance, shoot or charge that turn, and crucially, enemies will be able to shoot at you!

That hardly qualifies as a "nerf" if you ask me. Sounds like the unit that fell back is simply setting itself up for another pounding in the assault phase. Let's see what they do to the rest of the assault phase first.

This is fucking awesome, as an AoS player im so happy that 40k is becoming practically aos, ive tried playing 40k but its just too much damn tables and rules and shit i just want to play with my models. Im thinking of starting a kharadron army and use them as space marines, its hardly even a change ruleswise :D Gonna be sweeeeeeeet!

>>52931316
I think that's fair. Make the vehicle cost as much as perhaps 1 heavy weapons mortar team, but it spits out 2d6 with reroll to the heavy's 3d6

>>52931338
Let's not forget that you need to hold objectives, since both Maelstrom and Eternal War missions are still in the rulebook. So you might not always be able to just walk away from combat without giving your opponent a strategic advantage.

>>52931338
>Let's see what they do to the rest of the assault phase first.

STOP BEING REASONABLE! THE SKY IS FALLING

>>52931338
That's only if two units are fighting in isolation.

>>52931351
(you tried)

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>>52931351

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>>52931351
This is awful bait. Be more subtle next time.

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>>52931292
If I can reroll moral checks for receiving orders with my commissar than I could kill an entire conscript blob to insure Inspired Tactics but on double sixes the commissar should die and the control of that squad should be given to the opponent as the squad is mutinying.

>>52931359
Well, also compared to the heavy weapon team, it might be re-rolling to hit with those 2d6 shots, as well as re-rolling to wound. Plus it'll be on a more durable vehicle chassis.

Still might need a price adjustment, but I think they can strike a good balance.

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>>52931351

WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE?

>>52931338
Again, you're dumb. You get an additional turn of being shot at by the rest of the army. That is not a benefit to you.

>>52931367
And it's only a 'nerf' if you have a unit charge an entire gunline alone.

>>52931138
Just compile some house rules for your group. My group did it for a campaign and we will probably stick with it for a while.
>6+d6 charge if you don't shoot
>glancing rolls on damage table ignoring ap but doesn't remove hull points unless immobilized and all weapons destroyed
>jink for bikes reverted to cover save if moved flat out only
>flakk for ML is free
>may disordered charge out of vehicles unless it is assault/O-T
>barrage has pinning again, barrage ordinance -1L
>snipers have pinning, multiple sniper wounds is cumulative -1L
>charge gives +1In
>one formation/allied detachment per CAD unless running Decurion style
>all marines except DW and GK are considered the same faction for allied purposes
>invisibility is 1 WP and grants nightfight rules to the unit
>some points changes for units and rule changes (like forge fiends becoming MCs) on a case by case basis
Game is vastly improved and non-unit rules changes are easily placed on a single sheet

>>52931406
Lasguns

>>52931411
>what are weapons with range greater than 12"

>>52931431
>What is LoS blocking terrain

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>>52931406
Supporting Fire with pathfinders then Coordinated Fire for the surrounding squads to utilize those markerlight hits, putting my whole fucking gunline up to BS3 or 4 just before it blows your shitty little Assault Squad a mile-wide asshole.

>>52931444
W A S T E D
A
S
T
E
D

>>52931442
Terrain will have wounds and will Autokill you if nearby when its destroyed

>>52931388
That's terrible! I love it!

>>52931409
>You get an additional turn of being shot at by the rest of the army
>implying I'm not aware of and completely fine with that
>I-It's totally a nerf gaiz! I know everything GW's going to do with the Assault phase!
Just stop anon. You're embarrassing yourself now.

>>52930825
You have no reason to believe that 8th ed won't contain them.

Also the chaos units will be better, even with Traitor Legion most of the units in the codex were shit.

Who would actually win out of a space marine chapter VS the rest of the fantasy world if the SMs just dropped in? The crazy power jump between fantasy and 40k makes me think SM would wipe the floor, but they're dealing with chaos in both and that's a lot of rats and lizards to deal with.

>>52931419
>invisibility is 1 WP and grants nightfight rules to the unit

I get that old Invisibility was broken, but that's straight up worse than Shrouding. (Situational Stealth vs. Always Stealth + Shrouding)

Might as well bring back Puppetmaster and rename Shrouding to Invisibility

>>52930846
Because you're making retarded stereotypes based on which fictional plastic soldiers a person decides to collect.

Especially retarded when you consider that most people collect multiple different armies.

>>52930878

This is the biggest upside. It was absurd that killing a unit in one turn was worse than killing it in two in old 40k.

>>52930138
Salty orc meme posters BTFO with 8th

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>>52931406
ITZ DAKKA YA SILLY GROT!

>>52931170
>all this IG talk because that's all you faggots play
>but still talk shit about SMs and Eldar
Yes, fall back, so I can shoot AND charge you again. Continue pretending that all your guns are exactly where you need them to be at the exact right time, and the rest of my army doesn't exist.

>>52931469
You're the one who thinks getting shot at more frequently is somehow beneficial to your close combat units.

>>52931406
Tauburgers! Simply roast a gunline until it's extra well-done. Follow up with a stab being sure to charge as fast as possible so the screaming burning Zeno doesn't fall off your blade. Serve to friends, family, and the horde of cultists following your legion around and fetching your stuff.

Remember: It's not canniblism because they're not human!

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>>52931507

>>52931492
Welp. They'd basically be a Brettiona. Strange knights that act funny. They won't win, but odds are they won't lose unless the entire world unites.

Remember, both 40K and WHFB had Daemons and dudes with spears somehow do a good job holding back Daemons.

>>52931463
Proof.

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Black templar reboot with sword and board tactical squads when

>>52931507
How, exactly?

>>52931492
I feel the sheer quantity of wizards would mess them up. Slaan can raise mountain ranges at will for example.

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>>52931534
Sod off, Gue'la. I have Hammerheads and Broadsides waiting in the rear, ready to fill you with so many S5 missiles that you'll shit explosive gel for weeks afterwards. That's if you survive the entire gunline overwatching you at BS4.

>>52931521
Because the fact that shooting units can't be locked in close combat means that they can let things charge on the first turn or assault from deep-strike without having gunline babies cry about it.

The fact that the unit also has to spend their entire turn to do so while getting reverse overwatched for their troubles adds to that.

Not only that, but the removal of overwatch means that you're only going to get shot those extra after you've already charged, and that's only if you don't have any other units charging in.

One unit charging a gunline is gonna go poorly. One unit charging that while others deep-strike in and attack the long ranged heavy firepower to tie it up as well means that the enemy is going to have 3 squads to shoot with only half their army being able to do so.

Then if you survive, you get charge bonuses again.

>>52931492
Fantasy simply due to scale.
SM can take while worlds in 40k with only 100-1000 men by merit of 90% of the planets have <500 million people and/or are extremely reliant on infrastructure just to survive. Take the leadership and control of the infrastructure, take the planet. Everything else is a mop up operation.

Fantasy has no such vulnerabilities while still packing powerful warp hijinx and daemons.

>>52931607
Wait, they removed Overwatch? Is this confirmed?

What are they going to replace the Dark Angel chapter tactics with then?

>>52931607
Also you would have to be a complete retard to go completely pure assault with no fire support. Armies going for assault damage will still have long-range shooting to take out key reinforcing units so they can't just blast their units away after they kill one enemy unit.

>>52931607
Yeah from what I've seen so far it seems like you want to coördinate your assaults, rather than just mindlessly throw everything foward

>>52931368
>>52931370
>>52931376
>>52931403

but is he wrong? Every single peek they've released is spot on age of sigmar rules... why do people see this as positive?
GW can suddenly do no wrong? wtf

>>52931607
>Because the fact that shooting units can't be locked in close combat means that they can let things charge on the first turn or assault from deep-strike without having gunline babies cry about it.

>Assault squad with flamers and a drop pod
>Deep strike in, burn and churn

Please happen

>>52931639
Or if you do go full assault, do >>52931646 and charge everything in at the proper targets at the proper time. That way it doesn't matter if the enemy falls back, because then his entire army is falling back at the same time.

>>52931514
The attacking unit doesn't gain any kind of advantage by the defending unit falling back. In 7th edition the attacking unit would just be locked in combat and kill the defending unit in their combat phase.

In 8th that defending unit will only fall back if they have something available to shoot you with, otherwise they'd be taking an extra charge that they don't have to. And if they do fall back you get shot by whatever and charge a unit you'd have killed anyway.

There charging player gets nothing put of the defender falling back unless they do it when the combat is isolated or if the defender would have done more damage fighting in CC normally.

It's a mechanic that gives options to the person losing the combat, it does nothing at all to help the attacker, except maybe convince someone to leave an objective.

>>52931503
It's up to change if we feel it's too OP or broken. That's the great thing about house rules.

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>>52931651
Nice try

Here's your (You)

Now back under your bridge, shoo !

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>>52931606
>He thinks Tau aren't getting hit so hard with the nerfbat they'll be shitting teeth for weeks
>He thinks Overwatch will still be a thing in 8th
>He thinks I'm not going to fly 30" down the table on turn one, then disembark and charge on turn two and start kicking his shitty gundam knockoffs' heads in before he know what's happening

Welcome to Warhammer 40,000: Assault Phase edition. The endless bullying of melee armies is about to end.

>>52931514
wait, charge with what? you are currently standing outside of combat in the line of fire and its not your turn.
How can you be this thick? you think all assaults happen in your own little corner? No, they happen infront of the gunline except when your opponent is an idiot.

>>52931634
True, although a lot of fantasy races keep to themselves more than in 40k. They'd definitely lose if the whole world turned on them simultaneously but they could probably take any combination of 1-2 armies at once and come out okay.

>>52930666
G R O G N A R D
R
O
G
N
A
R
D

>>52931646

wow youre a genius

>>52931678
Maybe playing on a gigantic table with every unit deployed 3 feet from each other?

>>52931683
Most definitely but we the question wasn't "Can space marines beat a fantasy army or two" it was SM vs the rest of fantasy world

>>52931675
Is this your go to response every time? Ok

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>>52931701

>>52931708
who plays like that?

>>52931662
Yes, because you are playing an idiot

>>52931671
stop being intelligent, it sounds like you dont like the rules almighty GW is putting out!

>>52931730
Apparently the guy who thinks close combat units aren't going to get shot to shit every turn.

>>52931671
That's because you are looking at it from the defender's pov.
The attacker's pov is that a unit that has fallen back is basically entirely out of the fight for that turn, and the unit won't always be some chaff like conscripts or guardians.
It opens up that same unit to shooting, or if the charging player wants to, they can use pistols/grenades on other, nearby units. Further, the defending player must now dedicate firepower on a single unit or risk a sweep, firepower that may well be used on other, perhaps more dangerous or linchpin units.
It is not simply a hey everything is alright card for defenders, it opens options, but carries it's own perils. The only way your situation rings true is if the charging player did so stupidly.
Honestly, what's up with people like you and >>52931678 assuming that everyone runs gunslines and they will happen to be in the right position to counter a charge?

>>52931730
Imperial guard players.

>>52931646
I like it. The more things get charged in a turn less of them will be able to shoot, and it opens them up to yet another assault with charge bonuses applied.

>>52931750
>because you are playing an idiot

>No overwatch
>Nothing my opponent can do as 20 squads come out of nowhere and crash into his lines
>He has everyone fall back
>"heh, now to shoot them because they're not in combat"
>kills 7 guys with the artillery he parked in the corner

Yeah, such stupid tactics

>>52931782
Almost every guard player I know has 1 command platoon somewhere on the board and everything else in chimeras, with a handful of tanks/artillery pieces sprinkled on.

I actually feel super pumped about the new edition. The other one seemed super bloated and honestly not that fun anymore. Formations really didn't help.

I'm mostly hyped about Death Guard getting some attention. Definitely gonna be getting back into the hobby when it hits.

>>52931750
I didn't express either like or dislike, I just don't think close combat units potentially being subject to a shooting phase every turn when they would previously have been protected by being locked in combat will benefit those close combat units (it won't).

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>>52931651
I don't get it, Why the hell do people like AoS around her? Age of shitmar and its dumpster fire rule set is the worst thing to happen to gaming.

When that shit hit, /tg/ was more then happy to cast it back to the shill pit it came from, now /tg/ seems to be all over age of shitmar's dick, this is what I get for being gone for a year.

I just pray the rules will be better then AoS

>>52931678
>No, they happen infront of the gunline

Transport vehicles are going to be a lot harder to kill in 8th. What's to stop a person just Tank Shocking their way through whatever crappy little infantry screen you deploy up front, or just flying straight over them if they have skimmers? You aren't going to be able to stop every unit on its way in.

>>52931853
It's a vocal minority of AoS players who refuse to stay in their ghetto.

>>52931853
I think since then people have actually played it and they introduced points and the game is okay.

>>52931651
You're a retard, anon.

Babbys first army list, need help! I decided on building a deathwatch army since they seem so badass.

Land raider is for transporting the furor kill team

DW Black Spear Strike Force (Deathwatch: Codex (2016)) [2241pts]

COMMAND
Librarian [120pts]
Digital Weapons, Mastery Level 1, Melta Bombs, The Tome of Ectoclades
Terminator Armour
Force Sword, Storm Bolter

AUXILIARY
Armour [275pts]
Land Raider Crusader - Extra Armour, Multi-melta, Storm Bolter

CORE
Watch Company [1846pts]

-Watch Captain
Melta Bombs
Power Armour
Combi-melta, Power Sword

Aquila Kill Team
Corvus Blackstar - Extra Armour, Four Stormstrike Missles, Hurricane Bolter, Twin Linked Assault Cannon
Black Shield - Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer
-Vanguard Veteran - Plasma Pistol, Power Sword
-Vanguard Veteran - Power Maul, Storm Shield
-Vanguard Veteran - Power Sword, Storm Shield
2x - Vanguard Veteran - Plasma Pistol, Thunder Hammer
-Veteran - Boltgun, Power Sword
-Veteran - Boltgun, Power Sword
-Veteran - Power Sword, Storm Shield
-Veteran - 2x Lightning Claw

Furor Kill Team
-Black Shield - Grav-gun, Storm Shield
4x - Terminator - Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield
3x -Veteran -Boltgun & Chainsword
3x - Veteran with Frag Cannon

-Rhino
-Black Shield - Chainsword, Grav-gun
5x - Veteran - Chainsword, Stalker Pattern Boltgun

-Rhino
-Black Shield - Chainsword, Grav-gun
5x - Veteran - Deathwatch Shotgun, Storm Shield
5x - Veteran - Boltgun & Chainsword

I will be playing against my roommate who mostly runs a 2250p army

>>52931855
>Tank shocking being a thing
They're dumbing the game down, there's no room for interesting attacks anymore.

>>52931816
hope is the first step on the road to disappointment, I should not have to tell you this anon

>>52931853
I agree with AoS being shit, it's such a shame. I love the fantasy setting way more than 40k, 40k to me feels way more teenagery and edgy. It's just significantly more fun to play so I tolerate it. I'd kill for a 10/10 fantasy game again.

>>52930529
For the love of the Emperor, MOAR

>>52931894
>"Units with the VEHICLE keyword can move through enemy models as if they weren't there, but cannot finish their move in a space already occupied by a friendly or enemy model."

Easy as pie.

>>52931870
If this thread is anything to go by, it's actually the exact opposite, a handful of shitters that insist on shitposting about AoS in a 40k thread.

>>52931873
"okay" hardly seems like a great template for a massive update to 40k, I fucking swear if 8th edition drops with no points and wacky rules like "if you call yourself a cuck and jump up and down your troops get +1 BS lol" like AoS, I'm selling all my shit

>get shot
>charge unit
>wipe half
>get swung back at
>unit falls back
>get shot
>charge again
>wipe the other half
>get shot
>repeat until tabled by gravspam
How is this an improvement?

>>52931926
They've literally already said there are two different point systems. Please off yourself.

>>52931924
Says the guy carrying on the conversation.

Just shut the fuck up already and go back to your ghetto.

is airbrushing cheating?

>>52931896
i know. ive been in the game for a while. my first set was Battle for Macragge and I've been playing Chaos and necrons. Necrons were garbo up until pretty recently and Chaos has been shit for a long ass time.
but by the looks of it, the game seems easier to play and i'll be getting new models. No need to throw a fit before we actually get the content

>>52931891
Mate, 8th edition's about to be here.
Also
>2250 standard
For what purpose?

>>52931926
>t. Retard who hasn't read anything about 8th

>>52931948
all is fair in tabletop and painting

>>52931926
>still shitposting about AoS
>when all of the rule changes thus far are either bringing back ideas cast off in the change from 2e to 3e, or are done by other game systems
Exactly what is from AoS again that isn't currently done by other wargames and isn't from 2e?

>>52931948
Only if your GF finds out.

>>52931948
Depends how good you are

>>52931936
>imagine game in vacuum without knowing full rules
>'how is this an improvement?'

>>52931027
>"Expecting heresy?"
>"Here comes the remedy."
>"To protect the galaxy from devastation."
>"To call all hands to battle stations."
>"To eradicate the evils Chaos spawned."
>"To extend our rule to the stars beyond."
>"Sisters!"
>"Guardsmen!"
>"Imperial Truth blasts off from the muzzle of a lasgun."
>"Surrender now, or prepare to get overrun."
>felinoid jumps into view
>"Das rite!"

>>52931907
Oh ya, The rule's where only half the problem, the rest was they blew up one of the best settings ever to give us "high fantasy war #3945" world

>>52931936
i was thinking the exact same thing! when you fall back you can't do anything. Maybe some other units can shoot them since they're now out of combat.
sucks that tarpits won't be as much of a thing. the only real use i had for my Scarabs.

>>52931941
Anon, if you are so mad about AoS, why don't you go to the WHF thread?
>>52931980
This.
Idiots on this board prop up their theories as though they are actual rules, and newfags parrot them leading to a feedback loop of retardation and autism.

>>52931967
Monsters getting weaker the more wounds they take. I think.

And Open and Narrative play have similiar point systems to AoS (none and stupidly abstract respectively)

>>52931960
>Mate, 8th edition's about to be here.
oh, right, i just want to get to assembling my models. And its for playing against my roommate who mainly rocks a 2250p army

>>52931980
That's literally what the article says faggot. The only benefit is really fast melee units can now escape from slow tarpits.

>>52931781
Did you completely forget that units fall back at the start of their turn and that it's optional?

If a player is more concerned about your shooting than your CC they won't fall back. If they think they'll win the combat they won't fall back, if they need to hold an objective and can survive another round of CC they won't fall back.

>>52932000
So you suggest people should think every change is great because maybe it will work with the rest of the unreleased information contained in the rules?

>>52931936
Maybe Rhino rush is incoming and we'll be able to hit them all at once so they'll all be falling back at the same time.

>>52931891
>2250
>not glorious 1500 master race
Have fun with several hour games.

Has anyone used those khorne blood reaver arms on marines?

Is there a big size discrepancy between the two?

>>52932009
Just play 2k points jeez

>>52931941
Go back to your containment thread

>>52931948
No. But your minis will look like dog shit if you don't use a brush for details.

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>>52931988
underrated post

>>52932015
No, I suggest not making assumptions about how it's going to work and claiming the sky is falling because of it.

I mean, this latest change alone has people in a panic, because they think that you're going to get shot with BS 4 Supporting Fire overwatch AND then get blasted with the entire army the next turn.

You're a faggot if you use an airbrush

I had a dream last night where I was lead showrunner of a 40k HBO series. It changed perspectives a lot, kind of like game of thrones, between guardsmen in a penal legion, a sisters of battle/inquisitorial detachment hunting some escaped psyker and fighting chaos, and the commanders of a space marine chapter who were defending some important sector from a tyranid invasion.

would watch

>>52931999
>Maybe some other units can shoot them since they're now out of combat.
That's the thing. Imagine charging some Wraithguard with your Boyz only for them to fall back in their turn so you can get your whole squad washed away by Scat-lasers.

>>52932054
What if I just use it to prime?

>>52932027
1850pts is tourney standard for a reason. You got room to bring the dakka, the troops and the vehicles. Also, it takes roughly the same time to play as a 1500pt game. Shit dies fast.

>>52932054
Only if you put it up your butt.

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>>52931594

Nice meme bro

>>52932071
I used mine for mass-basecoating before it broke and I couldn't be arsed to buy another. Because I fucking hate basecoating and ending up with brushstrokes on my shit.

>>52932001
>Monsters getting weaker the more wounds they take. I think.
They said vehicles do, I heard nothing about MCs, so you need to source that.
>points system
And Fantasy and 40k had similar point systems.
>>52932075
Anon, IG haven't run static gunlines since 4e, what are you talking about?

>>52932073
Here's a question. Do you think tourney standard will change in 8e considering the game is speeding up? Like, if a 1500 point game only takes 90 minutes now, maybe they'll bump the points limit up to 2000

>>52931136
>I think I know how commissars vs priests will work now: commissars reroll moral checks and get summery execution, but priests are immune to battleshock BUT cannot choose to leave combat.

Please be this. I love the Priest models and Commissar models.

>>52931948
All heavy metal minis are airbrushed.
every golden deamon winner or even moderatly serious painter use airbrush since at least 20 years

>>52932075
Or, you have those Orks all charge a different unit of guard, and then the entire army runs away

>>52932075
Replace guard with riptides and scat and you're on to something.

>>52932052
>has people in a panic
Only 1 anon is panicking from what I can tell. The rest of us seem to be fine with it. Granted, those of us who are happy (Orks/'nids/melee armies) are probably assuming that everything else will support this change and give our armies massive buffs, but one can dream right?

>>52932103
I feel like an airbrush would be so hard to use properly though.

Guess it's just a matter of practice

>>52932095
Tourney standard will likely go to a lower points limit due to the fact that tournament matches are going over the time limit.

>>52931994
Definitely. I think part of my problem with 40k is it feels like the races are mostly there to oppose each other, whereas in fantasy you have shit like ogres and the tomb kings who tuck themselves in their corner of the world and keep to themselves unless you mess with them. It just felt more natural and lived-in.

>>52932065
Would be cool, but Admech plotline plz. That would be a really good chance to give them some proper lore and see them fight, since we know roughly what a Guard or Marine battle would look like. What about Skitarii?
Personally I always imagined that the aftermath of a Skitarii engagement would be more horrific than the battle, since the wounded Skits are no longer under the complete control of Magi and are thus allowed to scream.

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>Horus tore the Imperium in half
>Abaddon tore the galaxy in half and that's only the start of it

Horus was indeed WEAK

>>52931894
Tank shock will just be a regular charge attack. Remember, Vehicles have Infantry statlines now.

>>52932116
I dunno. I'm making the logical assumption that since close combat is no longer a death sentance for shooting units, that they'll account for that by removing some of the restrictions on charging.

It would certainly fit with simplifying rules to not restrict charges from reserve, scouting, or infiltrating.

>>52932095
I think standard points levels are likely to rise so we play with less models at higher points. Wouldn't surprise me if Marines cost 20pts standard, Rhinos 50 for example. The higher you go, the more room there is for nuance in assigning different things point values. Of course, this means what used to be 1850 with the same wargear and units will probably end up at 2500.

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I'm already dreading how my local community will react to 8th.

I remember when AoS dropped they threw a fit over thing like double turns and being able to shoot in/out of combat so they started demanding everyone play the game with with all sorts of retarded house rules because they can't handle the game being different from WHFB (despite being the same guys who were glad to see it go???).
>If you shot in to combat you hit on a 5+ and every other roll hits your own guys!
>If you retreat from combat you have to take two battleshock tests at a -3 bravery penalty!
But then they stopped playing the game because without points they could never agree on what was a fair game.

I'm already predicting they'll
>Ban shooting at units that you retreat from in the movement phase
>If it isn't banned in the rules, ban charging out of a transport or running and charging
>demand they roll for extra hits with a blast/template weapon if you a unit has more than 10 models, to counter 'spam' (horde) armies
And who knows what else, it least it has points this time.

>>52932066
i guess, but orks always did most of their damage on the charge. Now if they charge they'll also be hitting first. Ork hordes are going to be fucking nasty. Plus they'll get a save no matter what.

iunno, i feel like it can go both ways. in some cases i can see it being good and in other bad

>>52932105
No? Because if they charge a different squad, the squad that ran is now regrouped and can move and shoot

>>52932038
No, you go back to your containment thread.

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>>52932075
sorry bro, when squad 1 flee, xenos filth pile into squad 2

>>52932152
>I'm making the logical assumption
Exactly what the sky fallers are doing, you just don't agree with them.

>>52932116
I think it's a lateral change that could lead to better things.
Really, locking down something like a dread or carnifex with a blob of cheap units was bullshit.
The door swings both ways: you can't have your big hitters with low A locked down for multiple turns, and you don't get to freely mulch a unit you caught with your elite murderrapeblender team.

>>52932171
No, you go back to your containment thread

>>52932169
No, I mean you use your 10 different Ork squads to charge the 10 different imperial guard squads, all at the same time, so they all have to fall back at the same time.

>>52932171
Oh get a room you two and kiss already

>>52932138
save that for season 2. i had conceived of it as a kind of "humanity, fuck yeah" thing rather than "transhumans, fuck yeah", at least at first. That's why it would spend more time on the guards and sisters, and the marines would be portrayed kinda like just engines of death rather than people

>>52932169
Yes? charge both units at once.

>>52932159
>(despite being the same guys who were glad to see it go???

Not liking WHFB doesn't mean you'll automatically like AoS. Double turns and shooting into/out of combat is retarded no matter what you think of Fantasy and 40k's current rules.

>>52931948
Even if you only use your AB for priming it's still worth it

>cheating by using better tech
>laughingadmech.png

>>52932186
Not possible if half the guard squads are behind the other half

>>52932180
>the rules will stay exactly the same and just as complicated as 7th

vs

>they won't have as many complex rules for charging because the game is more simple

>>52932175
That is assuming assault works like it does in AoS though.

>>52932175
That's completely wrong though

>>52932194
Any smart player wont keep them shoulder to shoulder

>>52932126
Only thing I'm afraid about when getting one is how to "aim" it. Treat it like a pencil or pen?

>>52932184
>>52932187
B-Baka senpai...

>>52932205
If anything admech would be against airbrushing as they can't understand the inner workings of an air compressor.

>>52932215
And a smart player won't throw into a charge that could see the unit shot to pieces.
Why is one part of your strawman assumed to be stupid and the other assumed to be intelligent? Perhaps it's because then you wouldn't have a point?

>>52932151
I hope this means things like Tyranids could get transport creatures. I just want to see what one would be like.

>>52932037
aight, aight, jeez, its 2k now.

>>52932116
I'm okay with it because no amount of bitching will make GW change their minds.

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47KB, 473x251px

Is it implied we can now charge after advancing in this edition?

>>52932152
>that since close combat is no longer a death sentance for shooting units, that they'll account for that by removing some of the restrictions on charging
Wouldn't be surprising.

Although honestly I wouldn't be shocked if this Fall Back rule requires the fleeing unit to pass a leadership test first, and failing it means the unit is still trapped in close combat.

>>52932237
they make titan. Kinda harder than an airbrush.
Also hiw do gou think they paint SM armors and vehicules ?

>>52932219
yeah it's like a pen, or a brush, like it's literally an "airbrush" so you brush with it pretty much

basically: you've started painting by brush and have probably about 5 years of experience painting by brush

now, by airbrush, you're starting at ground zero, absolutely no skill transfers over

but after 10 years of using an airbrush you'll be able to highlight space marine fingers

>>52932162
>Now if they charge they'll also be hitting first. Ork hordes are going to be fucking nasty.
Unless your oponent spends a command point and make not just Orks but all melee armies >I2

>>52932233
You ever maintained one or cleaned one after a heavy session
It's basically a ritual ceremony

>>52932206
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought we were doing the game of 'my opponent is an idiot and this MS paint drawing proves it'

>>52932262
Where did this info on command points come from?

>>52932254
Not from that.

Charging could be done in the movement phase or advancing may prevent you from charging just like running does presently.

File: Scions of CalthV4.png (2MB, 1296x1644px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1296x1644px

Finished marine with chapter symbol for the interested. I decided to go with anon's proposed burning Ultra symbol with the five planets of the Calth system.

>>52932281
the Q&A they did a few days ago, although that anon is misinterpreting it

>>52932250
The Tervigon's spawning rule might be replaced with the ability to transport Termagants, and possibly regenerate something like D6 per unit every turn.

It took me fifteen attempts to post this message. Fuck Captcha.

>>52931274
TO sell the new kit when it came out.

Really wish they kept the griffon. Suite little heavy mortar that added a nasty pie plate without going overboard.

>>52932299
>although that anon is misinterpreting it
So how do command points work anon?

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3MB, 2481x3507px

>>52932254
>at the expense of shooting
>not shooting and charging
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

>>52932237
>Oh no my ork boy squad is confronted with 2 squads
>I can only charge one
>Well then I wont charge at all!!!

Yeah I can see every ork player doing that

>>52931127
Good. Reaching the safety of close combat was always dumb. I might just be bitter because I remember when combat was infinitely high and you could consolidate into CC and I don't want that back.
> pull punches on charge so the enemy won't wipe.
> mop up on their turn.
> Consolidate into a nearby unit.
> Never get shot like my animes.
Never again.

>>52932316
You can spend a command point to give a single model the ability to strike first after being charged, not a whole unit. And only one point can be spent per phase.

>>52932204
What's wrong with double turns? What's wrong with shooting in the shooting phase?
People are seriously breaking down in to spreg rages in public over this.

It's the rules, just forge the narrative in your head if it's bothering you.

>>52932320
>if i continue to strawman, i'll have a point eventually!
No, anon, you won't.

>>52932204
This, you could have asked 100 people how to fix WHFB and you would have got at least 75 idea's, not one of them would have been AoS