/Hhg/- Horus Heresy General

How many decades until we are 8th compatible?

>>52921387
How much money does HH even make for GW?
The playerbase seems too small to entirely redo all the rules for 8th

>>52921445
HH players proportionately throw a lot more money at GW than 40k players do due to FW though. Wait and see.

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Will 8th make 30k great again?

>>52921488
Hopefully

>>52921488

>1488
I guess we just confirmed one of the Emperor's past lives.

I hate to say it, guys, but 8th is actually looking pretty gr8. I don't know if I can bring myself to play HH until its updated.

>>52921840
Seems a bit silly if you're enjoying 7th now. It's not going to become suddenly worse after the new edition drops.

>>52921882

I don't really have a choice, though. HH makes 7th more tolerable and is definitely better than 40k, but 8th actually looks properly enjoyable so far. If there are two games and one of them gets better, then the other one gets worse by default.

I'm pretty hyped for 8th, here's hoping that HH updates quick.

>>52922148
>forgeworld
>quick

Remind me what book number we're on now?

>>52922035
It ranks worse, it doesn't get worse though.

>>52922434
Shhhhhh. I can dream

>>52922646

Just because it doesn't get worse, doesn't mean it was good to begin with. When the worse of the two options becomes legitimately good, then the previously preferred option is far less appealing.

How the fuck can someone's last words be "urg, End of Empires, urg!" when he's literally the first human being murdered?

I doubt that there wasn't even a concept of town existed when it's so long time ago.

ADB gone too far on his Big E/Imperium hate?

What are peoples opinion on anvillus deadclaws? I was planning to deep strike my termies with teleportation but that has some glaring weaknesses. But then again it doesn't cost as much as a dreadnought drop pod.

>>52923214
As humanity grew so did the demon, at some point it needs a motto grander than kill the next dude to accommodate it's larger consumption of murder juice.

>>52923214
>ADB gone too far on his Big E/Imperium hate?
Yes, he's gone too far, but I think the closer aproximation to its true name is Echo of the First Murder.
Isn't this thing hard to deal with because you can't murder violent deaths away?

I'n not against the daemon itself. I just find that Abel screaming 'empire' bullshit is so out of time period, making me think ADB putted that just to show his personal hate. (Imperium must fall thing)

>>52921354
>
Hi. I don't play HH, but I just wanna compliment whoever does the OP pics because I see them all the time and they're all great.
So yeah, thank you.

>>52923214

Ehhhhhhhh.

I do think ADB can go a bit far sometimes, but MoM didn't really bother me too much. One thing ADB does do is have characters say shit that they mean, but that not necessarily ADB means. He's decent at giving characters good point of view with reasons for believing what they do, even if it's not true.

People shit on him for how the Emps talks to Arkham Land, but they don't notice that how Emps talks is different depending on who he talks to Everyone sees/hears kind of what they want to see/hear.

Ok... I'm going to assume that someone has some sort of reading order image macro for the novels? Where to overlap the Novels, the comics, the anthologies, and what's skippable? Or am I being an asshole?

>>52923743 #
>what's skippable?
It would be faster to list what's readable desu. Start with 1-3 then whatever book is about your legion.

A Thousand Sons, First Heretic, Betrayer, Scars, and Path of Heaven are generally considered standouts. Master of Mankind is important if you want some insight into the Emperor but it's fairly divisive.

>>52923743

There's a lot of BL hate here.

Honestly try reading em all. You get the whole story that way.

Furious Abyss is one of the ones that's just plain can't even read it bad tho'. And it's pointless to boot.

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WITCHES GET YOU REEEEEEEEEE

So from what little I've read of the 8th ed changes so far

>Salamanders flamer spam now super viable
>lascannon mortisnoughts is now a great idea

>>52924672

and cataphractii is now infinitely more valuable

>>52923429

>People shit on him for how the Emps talks to Arkham Land, but they don't notice that how Emps talks is different depending on who he talks to Everyone sees/hears kind of what they want to see/hear.

Thats not by intentional design, let me assure you. Rather, its the only way the fanbase can continue to live with the shit that comes out of BL.

>>52924120
>Honestly try reading em all. You get the whole story that way.

Agreed. Obviously not every book is stellar but they're quick, enjoyable reads. Anybody getting super asspained about them is stupid. I've read a decent amount of everything aside from the novellas or Salamanders and Dark Angels stories.

>>52924766

No that's within MoM. How he talks to Land is different than with the one Custode.

>>52923367
"Drach'nyen" is the approximation of the scream of the first murderer and the brother he murdered. While ADB says the word ends up being translated as "End of Empires", I understood that it means so BECAUSE that is it's name, instead of being named Drach'nyen because it means EoE in daemontongue.
Which is silly because empires fall due to economic reasons, mostly by being cut off from some resource/trade route and thus being unable to pay for more soldiers.

>Drach'nyen
>Name composed of murdered and murderer.
>Cai'nyen and Drach'bel.
>Cain and Abel.

>>52921354
>no Garro novel
>no Shattered Legions anthology

I see Horus Heresy novel squad is taking a break.

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>>52924703
>and cataphractii is now infinitely more valuable
If Tartaros termies get the charge their AP2 Unwieldy weapons would still hit before the enemy's, and thus would be able to Sweep the Cataphractii despite having a worse save (due to less Catas being able to hit back).
If Catas get the charge, they have a better chance but don't get the option to sweep.
This would mean Tyrants (& copycats), Deathshrouds and Grave Wardens get better :^) without altering the power of other Legion specific Cataphractii.

It is a good day to be the core demographic :^^^)

>>52925180
Nixon Shock fuck yeah

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Kind of a long shot here, but does anyone happen to have pictures of the runes the Salamanders Promethean Cult uses? All I could fine were the ones on Vulkan and the Fire Drakes and I can't seem to find them in the books.

>>52925297

There's no such thing as sweeping in 8th. They haven't revealed yet what the stats of a power fist will be, or if there will still be invulnerable saves (or at least if terminators will have them).

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post your army so far before 8th edition brings balance to the force(weapons). probably gonna be ordering $100 worth of Z's custodes tanks next week to start filling out a talons army for summer and *hopefully* both HH and 8th 40k.

Is there a mega with all the HH audio books?

>>52926330
Finish those world eaters lazy motherfucker!

>>52926381
never! or at least until I practice weathering and git gud on less valuable models. maybe those imperial shitfisters.

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>>52922148
Even if not then Im sure a couple hours of combined debate on this bread we will be able to hash together a conversion guide for all the weapons/unit stats.

Whose in if thats the case?

>>52926445
Obvious question, two legion specific two wound terminators become four wound termies or do we just pretend that one wound is still standard.

>in heresy 8th ed, custards become only as good as legion armies and admech become worse than legions
>ebay and similar become flooded with tens of thousands of grey custodes and robutts because no longer powergamer's first choice
>collect robutts for cheap

>>52926671
I'll take those cheap grey custodes because their grav tanks and dreads are the sexiest thing FW has released all year.

>>52926671
Hell yes, cheapish Castellax. I mean, it's going to be hard to make Admech outright bad, they have lots of strong vehicles, MCs, infantry of all flavours and ICs that can do pretty much anything with the right build. They can shoot or chop, although they prefer the former. I think we'll certainly keep at least in the"decent" tier at worst. Cybernetica will probably take a knock, and Reductor will miss templates, but so will everyone else to be fair. If you need to make a single To Hit roll to get your D6 or whatever hits I can see Djinn-Skein Magos being invaluable. Obviously assuming they don't gut all the wargear options for everything in a fit of pique, anyway.

>>52926708
>grav tanks
Literally eldar, where are the imperial bricks in gold and gold?
>dreads
Completely agree, they're absolute sex.
Kinda want to convert one into a 1ksons psychonaut, leading an army of like ten dreads and their breacher squads of sarcophagii cleaners and/or objective humpers.

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>>52926445
>>52926529
Wait, a full "HHG BALANCES FW'S MISTAKES" codex, because /tg/ gets shit done?
I want to go full autist for a good cause, let's do this after I get a few hours of sleep

>>52926741
I got one of the caladius tanks from Z last week and the model itself is fucking neat as hell. but yeah the dreads are definitely better if it's a competition.

>>52926762
I'm not a fan of them personally, i feel their aesthetic just doesnt match the rest of the army, but to each their own

>>52926760
Sleep is for the weak.

>>52926802
True, but I'm weakened after fighting the Chinese and their billion Chu Ko Nus of death by 10000 cuts 8 trigrams.
Made me think of Dark Angel Plasma Repeaters and how literal repeating crossbows would defeat them because they're literally unusable due to their pitiful range.
Lost the first match, then used a double wall and massed scorpions...and they surrendered before the armies were fully committed.
So, -D3 VPs, I guess.

>>52926529
Bump them up to 2 and 3 wounds
They are still better than the average, but the difference in powerlevel isn't so stupidly huge.

One wound termies against the base of 2 would make them garbage

>>52927015
next item, how in gods name are the Ironfire rules supposed to work without templates.

>>52926330
Oh god ok. I think I'll do this in the morning and only half is painted so far.

It's so much gold

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>>52926529
>>52926760
>>52926802
HAHAHA this I agree with! Let us lay the Capstone of this glorious Motherfucker

As for Legion Termies I would suggest a conservative 3 wounds first then bump to 4 if they still seem fragile.

Give me a few hours and I can convert most of the weaponry excluding the D strength stuff.

>>52927051
As long as we're not slinging nerfs around too, I imagine 1d6 scatter would translate to rerolling the no of hits die and no scatter to always getting the max number of hits. Place a marker where the first model removed as a casualty stood, no casualties no markers.

>>52927051 Hmm, more accurate Artillery? For instance if it does D6 hits per arty shot, maybe a +1 or changes it to 3+D3 hits within 6"? Too powerful?

Will crunch a sheet out with weapon stats and shit and upload it for inspection in a bit or in the morning

Nah, forget ironfire and how many wounds terminators have, let's talk about the REALLY important stuff:
>white scars: if you have a longer moustache than your opponent, add 1" to all move values
>blood angels: you may reroll to hit in close combat if you weep for your enemy's losses as you roll
>death guard: actually, let's not do this one
>imperial fists: if you smile at any point during the game, your opponent gains 1VP
>space wolves: if you howl whil- actually, let's not do this one either
>word bearers: you may reroll one dice a turn providing you say a prayer beforehand
>raven guard: if you enter the store and tap your opponent on the shoulder before they notice you, you automatically get the first turn
>iron hands: your warlord may reroll run moves & charges if you have a prosthetic leg, your warlord may reroll to wound in close combat if you have a prosthetic arm
>emperor's children: reroll to hit in challenges if you are better groomed than your opponent

>>52927112
>Give me a few hours and I can convert most of the weaponry excluding the D strength stuff.
How? Would it not be better to wait and see what rules most weapons actually get? I mean, you could extrapolate based on the 3 weapons profiles we know to work out what profile a heavy bolter (say) should have, but it seems simpler to just wait and see what profile a heavy bolter actually has in 8th edition 40k. Now obviously there are a lot of weapons in 30k that aren't in 40k, but it'll also be easier to work those out once we know the rules for more than 3 weapons.

Sorry to be a miserable git, but this seems like something that it'd be better to wait and see with.

Are destroyer squads worth it at all?
I want to take a moritat and stick him in a squad to boost his survivability, but they seem way too expensive for what they are.
Do they only exist for you to get rad weapons into your list or am I missing something?

>>52927342
Not really, FW even admitted they didn't pay any attention to rebalancing destroyers last armylist update.

They're nice at cleaning up power armoured units with rad missile launchers, but it's not like almost any other option is just as good and cheaper.

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>>52927302
Hey, no worries; your being the voice of reason to my cavalier, 'fuck it' voice. I can only extrapolate. Namely Im actually excited about it and how it will (eventually) effect HH. I got some HOPE because I would like to play 40k again as well if 8th deals with the local, 'that guy' that I want to murder with a sharpened E-tool due to his Ynnari bullshittery/Tourney Deathstars in a relaxed local/chimps out when his shit starts dying/Does not compute the term, fluffy army build. Apologies, but srsly

FUCK THAT GUY

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>>52926330
God dammit Knight Anon I have 3 separate armies on the go at the moment you cheeky fucker....sigh... so I have spammed the last 3 threads with Mad Malagra Magos Coalt so for a change have a army shot of my Death Guard in progress. I just purchased a Mastadon to go with all this so that will be the army done once it is all painted. 3k points, Pride of the legion up the guts in a party bus DG terminators and Dreads out the wazoo!

Deaf Guard, no ROW.

>HQ
Forgelord - scythe, RF & cyber-familiar, rad grenades, meltabombs

>Troops
10 Tacs - scythe, AA, meltabombs
Rhino - heavy chem-flamer

10 Tacs - scythe, AA, meltabombs
Rhino - heavy chem-flamer

>Elites
10 Marksmen vets - 2 plasma guns, scythe, AA
Rhino - heavy chem-flamer

2 Rapiers - 2 laser destroyers

2 Rapiers - 2 laser destroyers

Contemptor-mortis - kheres assault cannons

>Fast attack
1 Attack bike - heavy chem-flamer, meltabombs

>Heavy support
Deredeo - autocannon array, missile launcher

5 Grave wardens - 1 chainfist
Spartan - AC

>Total - 2000

ALTERNATELY:

>As above, but The Reaping ROW.
>Forgelord replaced with delegatus (cataphractii armour, chainfist, rad grenades)
>rad grenades added to veteran squad
>last 15 points wasted...somewhere, I dunno

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>>52928263
Rad grenades anon, always choose rad grenades!

Was concerned about Grav-Flux Bombard's killing potential; Made a chart for myself and here's condensed version of results:

Against AV:
AV Glance Pen Damage
12 12.04% 25.93% 37.50%
13 9.72% 16.20% 25.93%
14 6.94% 9.26% 16.20%
15 4.63% 4.63% 9.26%

Against S:
>4 30/36 83.33% Wound
>5 26/36 72.22% Wound
>6 21/36 58.33% Wound

Bit underwhelming honestly, IMO.

>>52928389
>AP2, Ignores Cover, Large Blast, 83% chance to wound most common models in the game
>"underwhelming"
Tau player pls go.

>>52928449
Not about Infantry killing, but about vehicle killing. With 3d6 Pen + 2HP per Damage I thought it would be a rape machine.

>>52928539
Well there's got to be some advantages to taking the melta lance (for heavy vehicles) or storm cannon (for light vehicles). One option that just wrecks everything would be dull.

>>52928539
Well here's the think, maybe it's not an anti-tank weapon.

Your other options are S7 sunder and S9 melta so maybe they are for anti-tank, light and heavy armour respectively.

>>52928263
>1 Attack bike - heavy chem-flamer, meltabombs
Thats a free kill-point, you used to be able to bring five all with meltabombs but just one will be shot down from the other side of the map. If it was five with a bike praetor, its a strong-ass unit.
>5 Grave wardens - 1 chainfist
>Spartan - AC
For what, a forgelord caddy? Thats not a deathstar. Deathstars in 30k have primarchs, or at least a praetor with a paragon blade who will neuter your entire 650-point deathstar before any of them even swing. Put them in a raider, either bring a consul/siege breaker and put him with your rapiers or something, or swap the wardens for deathshroud, who are insanely killier than wardens

>>52928789
Had thought the attack bike could be a useful nuisance, but forgot about kill points, will change that.

Does everything have to be a deathstar? Is it not worth taking a generally effective close combat unit? Feels kind of disappointing if six fairly killy dudes aren't worth taking in modern 30k, and 10 termis + primarch is the only worthwhile choice. Will have a rewrite with just the wardens in a raider, I guess.

Anyway, grave wardens over deathshroud were because I hear lots of people build lists to be able to destroy land raiders/spartans in a single turn, but if that happens, their grenade launchers mean wardens aren't completely useless if they have to walk.

>>52929090
They are worth it, just not like you think. Use the termies to beat down AV, objective units, and heavy guns, while taking out the deathstars from a distance.

Speaking of *not* deathstars, how does this revised 3k list look?

Iron Hands RoW: Armored Breakthrough

Sicarian Battle Tank: Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blade
Praetor: Terminator Armor, Cyber-Familiar, Paragon Blade, Digital Weapons
Terminator Command Squad: Land Raider, 4 Bodyguards, 2 Powerfists, 2 Chainfists

Quad Launcher Batteries: 3 Launchers, Shatter Shells
Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought: Twin Kheres Assault Cannons
Contemptor Dreadnought: Chainfist, Kheres Assault Cannon, Meltagun
Gorgon Terminator Squad: Land Raider, 3 Power Fists, 2 Chainfists

Predator: Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blade
Predator: Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blade
Tactical Squad: Rhino
Tactical Squad: Rhino

Javelin Landspeeders: 3 Speeders

Sicarian Battle Tank: Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blade
Vindicator: Dozer Blade
Vindicator: Dozer Blade

It's different, but using the Speeders/predators for backfield objective-holding while the fast Rhinos carry up tax squads, and Sicarians take midfield as termies/dreads go to the front.

Maybe I should change the tax squads for some volkite caliver support squads? Could be useful.

Why did Robot name the Ultramarines, is he actually retarded?

>I will name them the Ultramar-ines, because I am from Ultramar
>I will name them Ultramarines, because I like the color blue
>I will name them Ultramarines, because they are good marines

>>52928263
Give marksmen vets combi flamers. That way up close and personal they have shredding rending flamers. Charge the survivors, if there are any, with rad grenades.

>>52929310
It's the first one.

>>52921488
>1488

"We must secure the existence of all mankind and a future for His primarchs."

>>52929487
Also, Ultra mar means the sea beyond in pseudo Latin... as in space. So it's a round about way of saying space marines in Latin.

>>52929090
The guy you replied to here, it doesnt have to be a deathstar, but if you're investing in a spartan over a raider then its best to maximise return, as the extra hundred points for a spartan will be missed in your army. If someone's invested in anti-AV14, then it doesnt matter what AV14 gets chosen, its dead anyway so you may as well take the option thats cheaper. Also, grenades are small consolation compared to the extra wounds and initiative 3 ap2, on the likelihood you do manage to charge something-if you charge a tac blob thrown at you as a roadblock you'll kill them all and thats your 200 points made back while still giving board control through CC threat.
>>52929236
Overall solid list, though i feel you've ignored your legion bonuses. Orth is incredible for a mechanised list even if you dont want to invest in Ferrus.
I feel the praetor is suboptimal compared to just a command gorgon squad in a raider, as you won't win against a serious deathstar and you'll drub anything else into submission just with your FNP termies. You've already got the bonus of a HQ Sicaran which can get an alright warlord trait, praetor choppy just feels unnecessary. Also free FNP/Hammer.
Contemptor is strictly inferior to cortus, as although the 5++ is universal it cant get rage/I5/etc like the cortus can and you should always be facing your front to heavy firepower anyway.
Tac squads should have Mmelta Rhinos, it makes your rhinos too threatening to ignore safely.
You're kinda lacking in anti-air for such an otherwise well-built list, a Xiphon/Lightning/FireRaptor would improve your AA and general board control a great deal.
There are no tax squads in breakthrough, predators are compulsory troops. If you hadnt used all your elites, i would say take vets instead.
Overall solid, i would drop the praetor, swap your HS sicaran to a Venator and bring Orth for that nasty combo of tank hunter+shock pulse for neutering what you dont explode, and then bring an extra predator

>>52929310
I just thought he was into Ultraman.

So, threw this together as an alternative to what I posted above, but while I was doing so more advice has appeared which obviously won't have been incorporated. But will post this anyway to see if this is a sensible approach for finding a caddy for my HQ that doesn't involve transports with capacity over 10. Basic thought was that the reaping allows jump infantry to hide in cover as they advance, then hit harder with rad.

>Death guard, The Reaping

>HQ
Delegatus - AA & RF, scythe, jump pack, rad grenades

>Troops
10 Tacs - scythe, AA, meltabombs
Rhino - heavy chem-flamer

10 Assaults - 2 power axe, scythe, AA, meltabombs

10 Marksmen vets - 2 plasma guns, 2 combi-chem-flamers, scythe, AA, rad grenades
Rhino - heavy chem-flamer

>Elites

1 Apothecary - power sword, jump pack

2 Rapiers - 2 laser destroyers

2 Rapiers - 2 laser destroyers

Contemptor-mortis - kheres assault cannons

>Heavy support
Deredeo - autocannon array, missile launcher

5 Grave wardens - 1 chainfist, rad grenades
Land raider phobos - AC

>Total - 2000

>>52928381
I fucking love this picture so much.
>The GUO's face
>The endless legion of marines shoulder to shoulder marching up to the GUO
>Rock-eating flies

>>52929807
I like it. Real up close and personal.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/

>>52930129
>everyone has Hit And Run now
Hmm.

Making the transfer from 40k to 30k
Heard a lot about how building armies functions very differently to vanilla 40k
Can anyone give a list of things to keep in mind when list building?

>>52930206

Not really. You can only do it at the beginning of your turn, and by the looks of it it stops you from doing anything else at all that turn. It does allow you to save a shooty unit from taking a second turn of pasting from a close combat unit, and charge in there with a more choppy unit of your own. It more or less kills off tarpitting too.

>>52930237
Here you go, this summarises it pretty well:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)#Organization_and_Using_an_Army_in_the_Age_of_Darkness
If you're wondering what the rites of war mentioned are, scrolling down a bit and reading some of them should give a decent idea what they're about. Do note they're only a thing for legiones astartes armies though, mechanicum and auxillia/militia can't take rites.

>>52930206
No, the unit you pull out of combat can do almost nothing until next turn.

What it does is expose the unit you were in combat with to a charge, a round of shooting etc, and possibly save the unit you pulled out from being deleted.
Volunteering to leave combat also means you can't lock something in a fight for turns in a row.

>>52930404
I suspect tarpitting will still be perfectly viable, just not doing it with singular large models so much. Since you have to move away from the enemy, you can probably surround them completely and trap them in, and as they lose their turn you can follow up and charge again to pin them down for another turn. If anything, it's a buff to shooting as you can't hide in enemy units as easily, but I can still see tarpitting being a viable strategy, just less of an autowin than just running a Fearless Unending Host with a little arty is today.

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>>52930206
Sounds to me like Zulu. Everyone falls back to the redoubt and blasts away.

>>52930588
Personally, I kind of dig it. I've always liked scenarios like that, and my brand of Skitarii army lends itself to that kind of tactic. Now my Vanguard don't turn into Genestealer Cult bed&breakfasts until they're ready to charge the Rangers behind them, and remember that if you force them to fall back but they don't manage to take you down, you can rush them again, which would give a nice feel to big melee armies smashing into defences.

>>52930477

True. On the one hand it nerfs assault by letting units get away from you after just one round of combat, but on the other it lets you escape unfavourable match-ups and tarpits. Then you have to weigh up the removal of initiative, and the changes to morale. It'll be hard to see what the effect in aggregate of all this will be until the edition is out and some games have been played, but I'm pretty optimistic so far.

On another note, the ability to exit combat might mean that assaulting from reserves or on T1 is back.

>>52930588
>Men of Macragge stand ye steady

So basically what I'm getting at is that 8th edition will favor, or at least infantry armies a lot more viable?

Also, I'm totally down for a /tg/ getting shit done and codexing 8th edition HH

>>52930660
I think they got the message that AoS largely devolved into two or three large melee mosh pits on objectives that never moved or did anything interesting other than roll fixed numbers until the wound pools ran out. This would probably make for a much more fluid game, since at worst the melee combat will move around the table over time and you can choose to cut your losses and throw something else at them instead.

Slightly worried that this edition seems to be focussing on cutting out time from games but also making everything more durable, though. I worry it's going to be boring padded sumo - there's no big dramatic template booms or flamethrowers anymore and the powerful weapons still allow saves which are magnified by cover, plus melee won't be able to keep much momentum up either if they take a round of shooting and get countercharged after almost every assault. I like some of the changes, but I am worried it'll end in both armies staggering to a halt in front of the shooty army's deployment just staggering backwards and forwards firing ineffectual barrages unless you bring a billion heroes to smash through and play Herohammer. I hate Herohammer, and it looks like they're pushing for it hard if the rumour of no IC joining units is true.

>>52930816

Meh, I think getting rid of some of the 'I shoot my large blast S8 AP2 guns at your marines, remove them all' is for the best. The tough things to kill are going to be vehicles (dreddy stats look hard as nails), but then multiple wounds on a lot of the weapons will balance things out and I'll bet that a squad full of chainfists will still make short work of a land raider.

>>52930653
I agree with this. There's gotta be some risk to doing it besides the retreating unit losing a turn. Otherwise it makes shooting armies very powerful. Retreat from domitar, blast it to pieces.

>>52930924
Some guy on reddit mathhammered 7th vs 8th dread against Lascannon. Takes 2-4 shots to drop a dreadnought in both, BUT you can no longer get a lucky OHK in 8th.

I dislike the lack of armor facings, personally.

>>52922434
there is not much to do: copy and paste Space Marine and tank stats, copy Girlyman stats for primarchs and add some +/-1 once in a while. No need to change rites of war, fluff or anything else. Most work is probably required for the 30k weapons.
But they kind of said that 30k will use the old rules when 8th comes out, so they scheduled that for later. Releasing Angelus for 7th would not make much sense; this is a possible date to dump 7th in 30k for everything - so... 10-12 months more 7th edition?

>>52926898
pitiful range? Use metal boxes.

>>52931140
>Legion rules
Depending on how the assault phase works, how would the SoH merciless fighters rule come into play?

Also do we know anything about reserves being changed?

>>52931237
We know nothing. I think the biggest change we will see outside of copy pasting stats, is converting the AP and damage values of heresy weapons to mod values.

Are Praetors every really viable? They seem way to overcoated for what they do, and while not a great comparison, the Custodes shield captain does so much more for his price compared to a praetor.

Over priced medicore beatstick? But hey you pick a rite of war... Or just take a take a delegatus

>>52931400
I've always felt that HQ choices in general are overpriced. I usually minimize the points I spend on them or theme them.

>>52931400
I run a praetor because Sanguinius doesn't have rules yet.

>>52923214
If you've got one of the first empires in human civilization, and someone suddenly invents the concept of killing the emperor, you might genuinely think that empires won't work anymore.

Look at Rome, where they went through four in a year. That wasn't literally the end for them, but it sure helped.

>>52931495
Triple wound sword for Sanguinius?

>>52931522
Sanguinius will have triple wound bare hands.

>>52931522
>Sexy Angel Sword
>S: +1 AP: 1 TYPE: Melee, Fleshbane, Instant Death, Soul Blaze

Something like this I imagine.

>>52931581
>hands are AP 4
>sword is AP 2 but doesn't cause multiple wounds
>sword is a specialist weapon

>>52930973

They might sort facings by giving some vehicles a flare-shield style -1S from shooting from the front, or +1S to shooting from the back. It remains to be seen, as do the rules about how stats on big wound models degrade as they get injured. You might not get the one hit kill, but a dread reduced to one or two wounds might be a good deal less threatening.

>>52931400
Marine HQs seem to be a tad worse than most of the other armies. Custodes are just the highest quality of bullshit, Militia have customisation out the ass, Provenances and Rogue Psykers which are nice and cheap, SA have good support buffs and the amazing Tank Commanders and support Mech HQs abilities are amazing on the whole, what with the Axiarch's badass statline and 5pt Power Fist, Cybertheurgy and Master of Destruction making even compulsories very handy and the giant ball of usefulness that puts two Primarchs at once to shame that is the Djin-skein Archimandrite.

I will admit I give my Archmagos fucking EVERYTHING, he's as much as Lorgar Normal, but he's still great.
Praetors? Well, you have a sword, I guess. Personally I like the look of another couple Terminators or Plasma Supports over splashing for Praetor with Paragon over Delegatus, it's just not scary enough even when it can remove 300pts with a lucky shot.

>>52931687
>>52931293
>>52931495
So how do we make them better? Do they need more supportive buffs? Do they need to actually be worth using as a beatstick (I know certain legions can)? Do they need to be cheaper with more options? Special rules depending on RoW?

>>52931756

Probably just cheaper. Marine characters have about the right set of stats and buffs, the points just need to be rebalanced a bit to reflect their actual damage potential.

>>52931193
Isn't it a 12" Salvo weapon? Whatever you shoot at you'll end up wholly within charge range. So risky.
But then three TL AP2 S6 shots for overwatch and WS5, your enemy at -1In if you used a stasis grenade. So rewarding.

>>52931237
Sons of Horus player. This really concerns me. I guess they could just do "if you outnumber the enemy at the end of the assault phase, those units still in combat can make an additional attack per model. "... something like that.

>>52931965
I know initiative is will no longer be a thing, but what I could see, and somewhat brokenly is gonna be that if they charge, they hit first, ap2's equivalent and then assuming conditions are met you attack again when the enemy attacks.... Albiet it is too early to tell anything really

>>52931400
I use my praetor as a jack of all, not a Death Star hunter. He and his squad are line fillers. If x doing a certain job goes down, he can fill in. Most units are quite specialized, but he and his squad are usually my "fill the gap" unit. I don't deck him out for one job but keep him strong at shooting and strong at melee if not excellent at either.

Works pretty well to be honest. Most people seem to make a hero out of their praetor as the leader of their guys and treat him like the nucleus of a Death Star. Sinks too many pts IMO

>>52921488
Nope. Quite the opposite, looking at the rules they've described.

>>52931812
For his base stats he seems fine (maybe an extra wound but it's okay for now) but I feel if you look at then from a fluff perspective, these guys are supposed to be the commanders of the legions, that little text blurb they get make them out to be these powerful warlords amongst the legions. Yet they seem to have no tactical knowledge what so ever. Iterally you is the for a squad your throwing out to most likely die or remained locked in combat with another Praetor... I almost feel like it was done as if the were more efficient, they in a way would over shadowed primarchs

>Legion praetors could get water-down special rules/upgrades depending on their legion for a price

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>>52927253
>>death guard: actually, let's not do this one
Don't pussy out! Your army gains +1T if you drink The Cups at the beginning of the match. Must be something reaaaally strong. If your enemy wants some and he can handle it better than you, he gains +1VP
>>imperial fists: if you smile at any point during the game, your opponent gains 1VP
HAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHA. However, if you do not smile and at the bitter end you give your opponent a mighty handshake, you win +1VP

>>52932113
>t. grognard
So far 8th looks good.

>>52932113
So let me guess, you came into the game in 5e?
Never played with armor mods or move stats?
>>52932147
Naw, he's a newfag of the worst sort, it's like people who only played 3.5 D&D telling everyone else their version is the "correct" version.
Laugh at him.

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IRON WITHIN

>>52923250
They're excellent.

>>52923743
Chronological order generally works. There's so much material that you're probably better off asking for reading orders for particular arcs. But even then it gets complicated. For example, the White Scars arc is basically:
>Brotherhood of the Moon (novella)
>Scars (novel)
>Allegiance (short story)
>Brotherhood of the Storm (short story)
>The Path of Heaven (novel)

But there's a Thousand Sons character in them whose arc also includes:
>Rebirth (short story) - placed before Scars
>The Last Son of Prospero (short story) - placed after The Path of Heaven

And one of the White Scars sagyar mazan appears in a few stories placed after Allegiance:
>Little Horus (short story)
>Grey Talon (audio drama)
>Vengeful Spirit (novel) - very minor role here

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>>52932511
IRON WITHOUT

>>52932511
>"I do not consent! I do not consent!"

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>>52927342
>>52927372
What if we gave Destroyers Acid bolt weaponry and Chem Munitions? Or turned their bolt pistols into Poisoned 2+ AP4 weapons?
It's outright stupid of FW to only give the squad two Rad missiles as their superexclusive relic proscribed weaponry...and then the techmarines bring 12 rad missiles.
And their 6" phosphex bombs pale at the numerous phosphex launcher weapons (Medusae, Rapiers, Achilles LRs, Leviathans) and real Lightning phosphex bombs. Which can buy rad missiles too.

>>52927448
Dude I like your stuff...but your pictures are so TINY!

>>52932511
How the fuck did you charge speeders with terminators?
What was the guy doing?

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>Forge World is increasing the power creep with every book published
>mfw White Scars will be the last legion to get their rules

>>52929310
"Ultramar" means "beyond the sea". It's an old term. But yeah, their name works on all three of those levels. I kind of like it.

>>52929310
He was a fan of dumb puns.

>>52932712
Trying to rush me in turn 1

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>>52929549
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8OlDPqYBLw

Somewhere, Ultramarines
Somewhere waiting for me
The Emperor stands on golden lands
And watches the ships go crusadin'

Somewhere, Ultramarines
He's there watching for me
If not for my Primarch on high
Then straight to Terra I'd go sailing

It's far beyond great Calth
It's near beyond Prandium
I know beyond a doubt
My hearts will lead me there soon

We'll meet with the Emperor
He'll lead just like before
And happy we'll be, Ultramarines
And the Great Crusade won't be ending

I know beyond a doubt
My hearts will lead me there soon
We'll meet, I know, we'll meet with the Emperor
He'll lead just as before
And happy we'll be, Ultramarines
And the Great Crusade won't be ending

Won't be ending
Just crusading, just crusading...

MK1 TERMINATORS WHEN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>52932770
>White Scars will be the first legion to get their 8th edition rules
>and thus will be the baseline like orks/CSM were
FTFY

>>52930129
>>52930206
So, if the enemy decides to charge my unit, he goes first and then I can decide to either bail out or fight back and take my chances? Or do I simply slip away and tell him "not this time fucker" at the expense of doing pretty much everything.

>>52930973
I think you need 5 lascannon shots (fired by marines, i.e. 3+ to hit) to destroy a Dreadnought with average rolls.
>5 shots
>3.33 hits (3+ to hit)
>2.78 wounding hits (2+ to wound)
>2.31 go through armor (save reduced to 6+)
>8.10 damage points (avg. 3.5W each)

I am surprised that the lascannon doesn't have a chance to auto-kill a dreadnought. But GW is probably trying to avoid non-d6 dice, and 2d6 would give it an average of 7W which is a bit much. I bet only multi-meltas and former D-weapons do that much damage.

There's also a chance that dreads and vehicles have an exploding rule. Age of Sigmar "vehicles" get rules changes as they accumulate wounds, and one could be that at 3W remaining you roll a d6 and on a 6, you explode.

>>52933443
I think you slip away during your movement phase. Basically hit-and-run, with penalties (if you actually have Hit-and-Run, maybe you don't get shot at).

>>52932029
What kind of squad and build do you use, then?

How do you equip your secondary HQs, peoples? My backup Magi all get a Mach Array and that's it, and the Axiarch gets a Photon Gauntlet and Power Fist. Do you splash out, or keep them stock?

>>52923214
In that case his name should be "ooga booga shooga dooga"

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SoS with cyborg flamer dogs when?

>>52933459
Considering that a single lascannon can take the dreadnought down to 2 wounds remaining I can imagine it still is very much capable of seriously crippling a dread with a single shot.

Like ok, the Dreadnought is still alive, but if it's move value is reduced to 2 and can only fire a single weapon as Snap Shots for example it might as well be.

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More iron

>>52933459

Doesn't seem too unreasonable, it'll still get merked if you point a lascannon support squad at it.

>>52934117
Are the shields third party?

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>>52934655

>>52934472
Few people take them, though. Most lascannons in an army are probably on tanks, maybe on Javelins. A lot of those are twin-linked. 2 TL lascannons will do an average of 4.3W on a dreadnought. That's not bad.

>>52924766
it was even stated by the author you stupid fucktard

>>52933533
175pts.

Praetor:100
Iron halo: 25
Plasma pistol: 15
Melta bombs: 5
Power weapon: 15
Combi-melta: 10
Banestrike ammunition: 5

I run a loyalist Luna Wolves force....
>inb4 there were none

I load him up with a reaver squad equipped with banestrike combi bolters half melta/half plasma in a dread claw and use them as a reaction force.

The squad can blast marines, terminators, and vehicles pretty well and can assault well with a lot of attacks.

Not a Death Star.. more like fire jumpers.

>>52934655
Forgeworld Breachers you pleb

>>52924329
Mort is literally hitler. Just as Hitler was jewish but hated Jews Morty was a psychic warp-dabbler who hated psykers. He killed his own Deathshroud to Hellraiser-style resurrect a daemon-infused Grulgor in Vengeful Spirit

>>52934898
Aren't FW breacher's helmets a little different? Just asking, I've never seen them in person

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I'm trying to learn Latin, and based on what I'm learning I recommend pronouncing Custodes as "cus-TOE-des" rather than "CUSS-toads". Everyone's going to say the last syllable as "deez" - I think it'd be futile to try to change that.

In Latin it would've sounded like "coos-TOH-dehs".

Also, the -ii at the end of Cataphractii, Secutarii, etc. is just a long, single "eeee" sound if you're trying to mimic classical Latin. Once it morphed into Italian it started sounding more like a repeated vowel, "ee-ee". At no point should you say "eye" or "ee-eye".

You hear that a lot among English speakers, most notably in Rome: Total War. People learn that ī (with a bar over it) was a long i, and they would pronounce it like in English (long i in English = "eye"). But like I said, the long i in Latin is simply longer ("eeee" instead of "ee").

>>52934943
Just look at the breachers on FW's site. They're exactly the same.

>>52934964
>In Latin it would've sounded like "coos-TOH-dehs".

I know nothing at all about Latin and that's how I've always pronounced it. Weird.

>>52934964
>coos-TOH-dehs
>literally how everybody I know pronounces it

>>52934976
To be fair I did mostly use plastic bodies, but shields and heads are resin

>>52934964
I thought nobody knew how Latin was actually pronounced in the ancient world? I mean, this is the difference in English over a couple of centuries:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s&feature=youtu.be&t=2m51s

...so who the hell knows how different Latin was a couple of millennia ago.

I actually say cus-toe-des, but I refuse to stop mispronouncing skit-arr-ee-eye.

>>52934964
Man, I really hate when people say cuss-toads. Like Brad Pitt saying buongiorno in Inglorius Basterds.

>>52934985
>>52934994
A little feeling for languages and history will pretty much make sure you're close to the intended pronunciation, GWs usage of Pseudo Latin (ie. High Gothic) is kept relatively simple and a rudimentary understanding of how languages other than English function will set you right.
This may leave a subset of players with the wrong idea on many of the words, but most will be just fine.

>>52934927
Mort a shit who thinks breathing fart gas all the time is cool. He's still not even worst primarch

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I tried.

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>>52934964
>Also, the -ii at the end of Cataphractii, Secutarii, etc. is just a long, single "eeee"
I TOLD YOU! Cataphracteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
It's all in spanish to me :^)
>>52934927
>He killed his own Deathshroud to Hellraiser-style resurrect a daemon-infused Grulgor in Vengeful Spirit
Does that happen after or before this exerpt?

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>>52935253
Kek, what is that from?

>>52935460
The original video surfaced recently, someone made an edit and I just converted to gif and renamed it.

>>52935253
Directed by Michael Bark.

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>>52934837
>Power weapon
You do realize the ONLY reason people think 30k Abaddon sucks is because he doesn't have a Paragon Blade, right?
Your dude has a plasma pistol, combi-melta with banestrike and melta bombs? I know he's your guy and all, but he's no Battle Automata, he can only shoot one of those things, and his actual job is to use that sword. You could easily ditch one of those and turn that Power weapon into a Paragon blade.
Unless you're using your Praetor to kill basic tacticals. Classic dick Luna Wolf move :^)

>>52933533
>>52934837
>Luna Wolves
Ah yeah, we ain't dead yet brother-anon

>How do you run your Praetor
I struggle in that I love Terminator armor and obviously you want to put them with other Terminators in most cases... but I also like deep striking them in. Which limits your options. A lot.

I wouldn't say I deathstar with them, but running combi plas on a squad tend to work well for deleting a unit of importance while still retaining combat abilities

>>52935504
>The original video surfaced recently
Yeah, that's kind of what I'm asking. Mine I giphyied it from a To Be Continued compilation, what about yours?

>>52935541
who says Luna Wolves are supposed to fight fair brother-anon :)

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>>52935579
>Luna Wolf Warlord challenging a chainsword-wielding mortal sergeant to battle
CLASSIC LUNA WOLF

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>Mechanicum, Custodes, and DG are the only armies that ever get fucking painted.
I disagree

>>52935616
What book was that from?

>>52935564
Saw it on 9gag so no source I'm afraid.

>reading Cybernetica
>epub is a bit fucked
>constant references to "Horns Lupercal"
Why is this so funny.

>>52935616
That gif puts into perspective SM fighting so fast that Humans can't follow their movements. Obviously the gif doesn't help, but a SM is exponentially faster than these two guys, and have a lot more experience.
No wonder Transhuman fear is a thing in the setting.

>>52935551
>I struggle in that I love Terminator armor and obviously you want to put them with other Terminators in most cases... but I also like deep striking them in. Which limits your options. A lot.
So, Termie Praetor in Termi Command/Legion/Justaerin squad? Your guy is called Anonbaddon and uses either of the two Deepstriking RoWs available to the legion?
Where's the problem?
Perhaps the XVIth should be able to buy deepstrike, not unlike the VIIIth.

>>52934964
English phonetics are fucked, good you do it right.

>>52935438
After.

>>52934964
Remember, it's legiones ass-tart-ees

>>52935699
It's funny because chaos has horned helmets.

>>52935864
Fuck your eeee, I is e.

The e would sound similar to the one in (Ass)Tartes.

Seriously, decide how to use the letter e.

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>>52934964
>mfw French language makes me pronounce everything right
Truely the superior language.

>>52934985
>>52934994
I hear a 75/25 split between "cus-TOH-deez" and "CUSS-toads".

>>52935148
We have a pretty good idea, except for exactly how the "r" sounded. A contemporary writer described it as "the dog sound" but is that more like a trilled Spanish r, or more guttural?

There's Republican-era poetry that doesn't have a rhythm if you use Ecclesiarchical Latin pronounciation (which is closer to Italian). That led to the reconstruction of rules on which syllables to stress and which vowels were long.

A lot of Latin was transliterated into Greek, Hebrew, or who knows what else back then. That's largely how we know that Latin "C" was pronounced like a K and not CH, and that Latin "V" was pronounced like a W until the first century AD. For example, the name "Valerius" in a Greek document would be written like "Oualerious". We therefore know that Caesar said "weni, widi, wiki".

Spelling errors are good clues, too. There's a point in time when writers start misspelling (for example) "praetor" as "prator", hinting that they were no longer pronouncing both vowels - the sound went from "ay" to "eh". In the first century you also start to see "V" misspelled as "B", meaning that it was moving away from the old W sound.

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>>52935735
Easy. We, the WS4 I4 marine audience, are watching how a sergeant fares against a Praetor who is two weapon skill levels and one initiative level above him.
I was just checking the Tempestus and Solar Auxilia codices. You can teach a mortal how to shoot with peerless accuracy on a scale similar to marines, and indeed a few formations make it harder to fight you, like tercios and the phalax...but no base human would be able to keep up with a marine one on one.

>>52934964
>coos-TOH-dehs
Is the "dehs" pronounced like "days"?

>>52935988
No, I should've written "dess". Rhymes with mess, except you hold the e a little longer.

>>52935937
>CUSS-toads

Almost sounds like Cursed Toads.

>>52935541
I do. My praetor and reavers will shoot melta at and then melta bomb a tank in assault. Or blast a terminator squad with plasma. Or assault some support squad/ rapier team. They do not engage monstrous creature or terminators in assault. I have justaerin, big guns, or marksmen vets for that job. My praetor is a line filler who shores up weakness, to make sure the real attack continues rather than being a Death Star.

>>52935922
Español here, romance languages a best, naming things is so easy.
But I thought few people spoke High Gothic. Everybody except SW and WS spoke low gothic, so all pronunciations would be correct.
Armeelus Deenat :^)

>>52936002
Thanks. It feels so awkward on the tongue. My instincts want me to say Cuh-Sto-Deez

>>52936112
It's natural. It's not the usual tongue positions. That's why in english the resting position (when you're still speaking but don't know what to say) sounds like "aaaaah/uhmmm", but for others is "eeeeh".

>>52936086
I'm not saying he's a death star, I'm saying a dumb Artificer sergeant would give you trouble and your Reaver Chieftain would fare no better, while your plasma pistol is sitting there like the sidearm it is.

>>52936218
Haven't really had that issue. Since reavers have precision shots and strikes, if there's a sergeant with some bling, he's going to be the only one really capable of hurting me in a meaningful way, so I target him with the shooting before the assault. The enemy squad after that is usually mop up. If he does survive the volley before the charge, then same thing with my first round of attacks. It only takes one. It's really not that much of an issue. It has actually saved my guys from some heavy shooting in the past where the enemy lasted until my opponents turnassault phase rather than mine.

>>52936333
I usually roll a six or two that goes for the sarge.

>>52935738
>Either of the two deep striking RoW
Yeah, that's kind of my point. While I do tend to run with a squad of Justaerin (albiet, if you do that you're bordering on deathstar) the only deepstrike options are Abaddon, Orbital Assault, Dreadclaw with Command Squad, Black Reaving for Justaerin only

>Buying Deepstrike
That was brought up once here but people seemed very against the idea of the XVIth getting the ability to deep strike whenever never really understood why as it would overall make some of their rites more appealing as a point saver or increase synergy with tactics.
Also it's fluffy

>>52936109
>Romance languages
Oh you. Si, muy caliente mi amor.

>>52936366
Heh, I would prefer it if vets got dreadclaws as an option for the xvith. Would be a bit powerful though.

>>52936112
Don't worry, I'm not trying to push people to say cus-TOH-dess in English. I wanted to mention the Latin pronunciation to argue that cus-TOH-deez is closer to the original than CUSS-toads.

I agree the original doesn't roll off the tongue very well.

>>52936366
Dreadclaw spam would be pretty painful with that heat blast rule or whatever it's called. Interceptor doesn't work until after it's landed, so yeah, I think it'd be too harsh to balance.

>>52935922
>>52936109
German speaker here, its just english phonetics that are fucked..or rather how their words and letters are chameleons of pronounciation.

>>52936406
Te quiero puta :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idtD--EF1Dg

>>52936410
>Vet dreadclaws
Wasn't this an option originally?
If Reavers are made better though, they could become that though
>>52936460
>Dreadclaw spam
Would they be broken in addition to having Terminators deep striking via teleportation, or are you saying that in general they can be broken if spammed in high numbers?

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Reasonable paragon spear?

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>>52936615
UNF

>>52934964
>I'm trying to learn Latin, and based on what I'm learning I recommend pronouncing Custodes as "cus-TOE-des" rather than "CUSS-toads". Everyone's going to say the last syllable as "deez" - I think it'd be futile to try to change that.
>In Latin it would've sounded like "coos-TOH-dehs".
close, but no cigar
KʊS'to:de:s
to break that down it would be
hard C lik in Cat or Kid
short u like in put
hard S like in Say or cuSS
T is pronounced like this in latin as it's a voicless dental stop
o: like in holy or hole
d like in dream, since it's a voiced dental stop in latin
e like in they
s like in say, once again.
>Also, the -ii at the end of Cataphractii, Secutarii, etc. is just a long, single "eeee" sound if you're trying to mimic classical Latin. Once it morphed into Italian it started sounding more like a repeated vowel, "ee-ee". At no point should you say "eye" or "ee-eye".
no, it's pronounced 'i.i:
which would be 'i like n in or sit and i: like in machine
so it would actually be iE, which sound fucking retarded, so people say stuff like ee-eye or eye or eeee., because the actual pronunciation is stupid

>>52936609
I'm worried about 6+ heat blasts.

>>52936708
Heat blast has potential, but it won't be used the turn it deploys it's unit(not exactly any better because combi weapons) but due to heat blast having a random number of hits and potentially hurting itself.
But I personally fear the ability if need to jink first turn, either empty and combi weapon 2 turn or charge. Point in case you could have all units in assault by turn 3. It's more of a beta strike that an alpha, but it does grant you a fuck load of control for each fight

I may have to make an all dreadclaw list with terminators/Reavers/veterans

Dreadclaws are sexy as fuck though

>>52936678
Thanks man.

I think confusion about pronounciation of latin words for english speakers stems mostly from being confused about a lot of their own words.

>All those regiolects.

>>52936678
What did he get wrong with his pronunciation of kustodes?
U like u, t like t, o like o, e like e.
You mean like this, right?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0yp3hjIBSkC

>>52936901
He got the "coos" wrong
It's pronounced like cuss.
Coos would be if it was a long ū, which it's not.

Which legion has the greatest sense of comradery and brotherhood within its own ranks?

>>52937082
White scars

>>52935659
The only Salamander army in the history of 30k.

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>tfw Horus kills that poor army critter and not me

>>52937218
wat

>>52936573
Puto tú, pinche joto.

>>52931140
Thats why I started the idea originally, havent had time quite yet to ait down and thumb it out but soonish.
>>52931237
Probably would kick in if you outnumber the opponent after both sides have gotten their swings in, then you get to attack once more for your guys if you outnumber then in the assault at the 'end'

>>52936854
>for english speakers
it's not just english speakers, unfortunately

>>52936951
That was me. Good to know, thanks!

>>52932144
Here here! I hope I can play with one of you anons irl one day and get to blow through my stash of Whiskey.

>>52937082
That's a tough one because a lot of legions would say it was them. The World Eaters make a big deal of brotherhood (before they went truly crazy), the White Scars are one big happy family, so are the Space Wolves. The Imperial Fists and Ultramarines manage to seem pretty undivided.

As for the opposite, the Emperor's Children are too competitive and hierarchical. The Night Lords aren't cohesive. Fear to Tread didn't make the Blood Angels sound all buddy-buddy either. The Iron Hands have their clans, the Raven Guard the Deliverance/Terra split (worse than most legions), and the Alpha Legion are fighting a civil war.

Who moves faster, a Terminator, a Breacher or a mortal?
Say, do you think 8E will fix Breachers, and by induction Phalanx Warders and Immortals? I mean, due to AP now functioning as a save reduction instead of outright denying saves, probably Boarding Shields and Hardened Armour will play a bigger role.

>>52937569
>Fear to Tread didn't make the Blood Angels sound all buddy-buddy either

Fear to Tread didn't make the Blood Angels sound like anything. Such a boring book.

>>52937581
Sometimes I wonder if units that are new to the 30k setting are overcosted on purpose. Breachers, Destroyers, Recon Marines, the Cerberus... they all suck. No wonder they fell out of use.

>>52935564
A video of someone throwing a ball to their dog at the beach in australia, it was on the facebook of one of the news channels

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>>52937608
Fear to Tread gave us a good insight at the Angel, and the flashbacks with Horus make their fight at the Vengeful Spirit more tragic than what ADB made to the Horus x Emperor one.
But I liked how everyone seems to diss ECs. They're like the Lucious of the legions, kek.

>>52937644
The book wasn't all bad (James Swallow at least writes horror well), but I gotta agree that the BA characters were painfully dull. Amit was the only one a little more interesting than Generic Good Guy #32.

>>52937619
How could we fix Recon squads?
75 or 100pts base, but each new marine costs +10pts instead of 15.
As for the Destroyers, I already proposed >>52932664

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>>52937902
>how do we fix recon squads

Personally, I'd like them to play a little more like 40k scouts, where they get in position at the start of the game and set up places for teleportation, though extend that to aiding guns (nuncio-vox isn't much), kinda like how they work with UM special rules for rerolling, but more universally. Sort of a mix between that and the cognis-signum, to make them useful and make them really feel/play like scouts should.

On a side note, how does this Cuss-toad-ehs look? The detail works just begun, but the general scheme is starting to come out. Not sure if I should make the silver on the shield brighter or not.

>>52938033
>they get in position at the start of the game and set up places for teleportation
They literally can do that. They can ditch their power armour for Infiltration Move through cover, which can be further aided by their shroud bombs and cameleoline, and Nuncio vox do turn them into teleportation entry.
Too bad there's only one way of getting teleporting termies unless you play the correct army, but still.
Hey, srsly why do termies not teleport standard? Get Pride of the Legion to not teleport termies instead (where they are troops), and problem solved.
A lack of teleporting termies is what makes artillery so damn powerful in "Infantry blobs - The Game".
Also, the aquila on that Custodes makes him look strange.

>>52938132
>Too bad there's only one way of getting teleporting termies unless you play the correct army, but still.
>Hey, srsly why do termies not teleport standard? Get Pride of the Legion to not teleport termies instead (where they are troops), and problem solved.
>A lack of teleporting termies is what makes artillery so damn powerful in "Infantry blobs - The Game".

Sounds like a fine way to make indominus pattern termies good for something in 30k.

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>>52938185
Indomitus: fixed.

>>52938132
Shit, I forgot about the nuncio-boxes even as I wrote about them. It's true they can perfofm various roles, but as is they're kinda 'jack of all trades master of none', since taking them really brings no benefit anywhere to an army. And even the variety of stuff they can do isn't that great- I can't think of any targets they do well against that isn't cheaper and easier covered by a standard list.

>>52938185
Cool as fuck idea, but I doubt it'd ever happen. For whatever reason, FW is insistent that deep-striking is either a whole army thing or barely (effectively) doable at all, aside from a handful of legions.

Which sucks, because blending steady artillery fire with shock-assault troops was one of the cool parts of marines.

Oh well, jump packs and Jetbikes aren't awful for an alpha strike team, I just wish drop pods could be more easily available than they are now

>>52937569
Been a while since I read Fear to Tread, but tensions were kinda high what with the Legion finding out they were betrayed by being sent to a fucked up demon world. There's not many examples of how the BA normally act.

>>52931400

Maybe 8th when HH gets updated to it will make praetors more attractive to kit out a bit.

>>52937242
Ollanius Pius

>>52938826
I actually don't find the Cabal and Perpetual plotline inherently offensive. I just wish it went somewhere.

>>52937581
Quietly hopeful for some strike first phalanx warders with axes and toughness 5 for for every turn except the one they charge.

I'm fairly new to HH, only recently got legiones astartes army book. Not really sure on where or what to take for my army. Wanted to get into HH with blood angels however legion specific rules won't come out until angelus is released. So for the time being I am just wondering on what to take?

>>52938921
Buying, painting, and getting accustomed to the setting/fluff/rules takes a while. If you like the Blood Angels, go with them, and when Angelus comes out you'll have rules.

>>52938921
The generic stuff is available to everyone, and there are the basic Legiones Astartes rules for the Blood Angels (you know, the Assault Cannon thing) and even Rites of War.
So you can simply use those with no Legion specific units and have an entirely viable army.

>>52938921
Those LA and RoW rules are in HH book 6 I believe, which you can find in PDF form in the OP at the top here.

>>52938921
Your troops choices are almost certainly going to be the same no matter what, just start with those and by the time you're in a position to actually field them the rules stuff ought to be sorted by then.

>>52935970

CAIPHAS CAIN! HERO OF THE IMPERIUM! dueled a chaos marine and manged to parry him a couple times.

Then his aide meltad the marine in the face.

>>52938921
You'll want to read the Blood Angels rules and rites of war (just no special units yet) in Book 6, Retribution. They basically get close combat bonuses, assault cannons in quantities no one else can take, a ridiculous sword for your Praetor, and they have to take more infantry than tanks.

As long as you don't break the infantry>tanks rule, you can use either the generic rites of war in the Army List book or the two in Book 6. You probably want to choose your purchases after picking a rite of war. The legion-specific ones in Book 6 are a jump pack/deep strike based army, or a defensive one with minor bonuses to defending objectives in your own deployment zone with a bit of Red Thirst thrown in. Most people use the jump pack one - so lots of (pricey) assault squads, apothecaries to keep them alive, some flyers, Javelins, and jetbikes, attack bikes and Predators with assault cannons, maybe some vets or Termies in a Dreadclaw or Kharybdis (either are great). That kind of army is easier if your gaming group allows using multiple melta-bombs in one turn, otherwise it's hard to squeeze in enough anti-tank. (It feels like FW's rules were based on multi-bombing, but the 40k FAQ disallowed it... a lot of HH events let you do it.)

Is it cost-effective to kit out a 10-man squad of Grey Slayer Pack with 3 power fists?
Huscarl with artificer armour too?
With all of the above and a rhino transport, it comes to 190 points. Too much?

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How should I protect my Legion Artillery (and Rapiers) against deepstrikers and infiltrators?

>>52941090
I've been drinking for an hour and a half waiting for my response. Buckle up buttercup.

>>52941211
They're probably asleep. I mean, if I knew the answer to yours believe me I would tell you.
Though...to be honest, aren't unwieldy weapons risky in the hands of power armoured troops? I mean of course you can assault regular dudes or have them as hidden powerfists, but surely you're trying to tackle 2+ save troops or big multiwound guys, from a non-assault transport no less.
Will probably still look cool.
I myself have been thinking about 4 Powerfist command squad termies vs 4 Deathshroud bodyguards for a termie Siege Breaker, but the only thing I'm sure about is he should have a phosphex bomb.

>>52941544
Don't worry about it bro.
>Unwieldy risky in the hands of PA troops
I dunno. I'm just getting back into the swing of things and that 30k attracts me so much more than 40k.
> I mean of course you can assault regular dudes or have them as hidden powerfists, but surely you're trying to tackle 2+ save troops or big multiwound guys, from a non-assault transport no less.
For this, powerfists can down armour saves. As for the non-assault transport, I don't feel it is cost efficient for a land raider versus a cheap ass rhino, y'know?
>I myself have been thinking about 4 Powerfist command squad termies vs 4 Deathshroud bodyguards for a termie Siege Breaker, but the only thing I'm sure about is he should have a phosphex bomb.
I really don't know. I like the fluffy of phosphex bombing. Then having the Deathshroud reap a tally past the living fire sounds fucking dope.
I've been drinking too much to offer any sound advice but some things sound really cool.

>>52931400
Don't have a choice. The alternative is Magnus. I don't think anyone wants me to run Magnus. Shall I run Magnus instead?

>>52933176
>brother look, I found a replacement for my broken vexilla
>that's not a vexi-
>LOOK BROTHER I GET TV SIGNAL FROM IT

>>52942114
>Good night, and good luck.

>>52941090
Augury scanner is your friend I guess?

>>52921354
Anyone got some fanmade rules for Argel Tal?

>>52942586
Normal Gal Vorbak stats but with 0 wounds.

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>>52937183
same reason nobody paint raven guard or iron hand : they got stomped at istvaan and are all good guys without the "loyalist from a traitor legion" appeal that is going on here.
But it's fine, nobody give a fuck about salamanders and thus nobody will complain about their LA rules

new mk9 marine sprues have a couple of female heads btw

>>52942786
This will cause a shitstorm of untold proportion

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>>52942717
I give a fuck about Salamanders!

>>52942855
>SW get hate for wolfwolfwolf
>Salamanders are literally the same if not even worse

>>52942891
Yeah but "fire" or "flame" is just a common naming thing for fantasy shit in general. It's really hard to fit "wolf" into every other thing and have it sound normal.

>>52942891
Are they bringing firedrake into the fight or riding them ?

>>52942705
fuck you erebus

>>52942927
In 8th edition they will

>>52942786
russianroosteraskingforproof.jpg

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>>52942786
/40kg/ didn't bite so now you're trying here ?

>>52942947
Argel Tal's continued existence would ensure that the traitors lose. Erebus did NOTHING wrong.

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>>52942717
>same reason nobody paint raven guard
Nah, we do have those. They're just shy and infiltrate all day erryday.
>>52942914
So, Salamander Dracos having a Dragonscale shield and wearing the Mantle of the elder Drake in a Firedrake unit is alright, but Space Wolf Wolflord Guadalupus wielding Frost Claws in a Wolf Guard unit suddenly is unforgiveable?
Don't get me wrong, both are fucking memes and I hate SWs, idk why I'm defending them tonight, but at least most of the wolf shittery is derived from the fact nobody speaks fucking Fenrisian.
Their fortress isn't the Fang, but the Aett, and Wolf lords' real title is Jarl.
Considering the norse, probably their honour guard units are called Huskarls as well, their regular tacticals would be Ulfsarks and their captains would be Hersires.

Magos Coatl has tiny but beautiful pics of the SWs that look like vikings instead of the usual 40k yiff enthusiasts.

Then you have Kyme leading the Sallies down the same path, with fire, dragons and blacksmith imageries. BL simply knows nothing about measure, only exaggerations.

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>>52943110
REMOVE EREBUS

Also Argel looks way cooler than you.

>>52943110
Why would Argel Tal be bad for chaos? Do you honestly think Kharn wouldn't rise as the Blood God's Champion if he was distracted by that guy's friendship?
Without him, he went nuts, got killed like twice and single handedly ended both the World Eaters and the Emperor's Children as organized legions.
I can't believe this: Erebus shits everything up EVEN FOR HIS OWN SIDE. Truly a shit.

>>52942586
Normal Gal Vorbak stats but with Fear of Titans

>>52943152
>Magos Coatl has tiny but beautiful pics of the SWs that look like vikings instead of the usual 40k yiff enthusiasts.
I would very much like to see this, actually, and I don't like the Space Wolves either.

I think the main reason I'm okay with the Salamanders doing their shit is because it's just not... WOLVES. When you think of a wolf you think of furries, yiffs, those "cool" kids that wear fucking wolf shirts around, or all the "lone wolf" brooding emo characters. "Wolf whatever" is just done to fucking death by the worst people in any given hobby.
Dragons and drakes aren't nearly that bad. And the Salamanders don't ride giant drakes into battle like the Space Wolves ride their Thunder Cavalry. To an extent I'm being a hypocrite, but the Salamanders just don't piss me off like the Space Wolves do. It may also have something to do with the absolutely rabid fanbase Space Wolves have that Salamanders (seem to) lack.

>>52943152
thats because wolfes are fucking shit mate

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>>52943303
Wait I found one. Tiny pic is tiny though.
They're pretty much wearing wolf skins to battle like berserkers did. I call them Ulfsarks for the vidya, but it was an actual thing they did. Biting shields and the usual stuff.
>The Úlfhéðnar (singular Úlfheðinn), another term associated with berserkers, mentioned in the Vatnsdæla saga, Haraldskvæði and the Völsunga saga, were said to wear the pelt of a wolf when they entered battle. Úlfhéðnar are sometimes described as Odin's special warriors: "[Odin's] men went without their mailcoats and were mad as hounds or wolves, bit their shields...they slew men, but neither fire nor iron had effect upon them. This is called 'going berserk'.":132 In addition, the helm-plate press from Torslunda depicts (below) a scene of Odin with a berserker—"a wolf skinned warrior with the apparently one-eyed dancer in the bird-horned helm, which is generally interpreted as showing a scene indicative of a relationship between berserkgang... and the god Odin"—with a wolf pelt and a spear as distinguishing features.
Apparently wolves fighting one eyed birdpeople isn't anything new :^)

>>52943303
Maybe people talk more shit about Space Wolves because if you do, they just send their dogs after you.

Talk shit about Salamanders, and they set you on fire :^)

On a more serious note, SW probably lost all respect when Thunderwolves became a thing. Intergrating very common elements from your homeworld into your traditions and outfit (fire and parts of native reptiles for Salamanders, frost and wolf bits for SW) is understandable, and really helps with expressing one of the paradoxes in GrimDark : High-tech things like neural-interface body armour and energy weapons, but also barbaric habits totems, trinkets, and trophy's, all on the same person.

But riding gaint versions of native animals without even a hint of armour (even rough rider horses had at least some armour plates) in a setting where most basic infantry have guns very much capable of stopping a grown man (IG flashlights seem the exception) is just too much.

>>52943288
I'll make my own OP rules then.

>>52943429
>Apparently wolves fighting one eyed birdpeople isn't anything new :^)

You laugh, but what if 40k is real? What if Magnus the Red is simply waiting for his day to return and slay all the furfags for the glory of Tzeentch? Do not ignore the signs, the End Times are near!

>>52943434
>On a more serious note, SW probably lost all respect when Thunderwolves became a thing.
This appears to be the biggest offense. I have no problem with them bringing wolves as literal war hounds, the SoS have a doggo squad as well...but riding them? WTF!
For some reason it's not knightly like the DAs, or even barbaric like the WSs. It's just silly.
>>52943459
I laugh because, for such a future, laughing is the only sane reaction. My mortal lifespan won't expose me to the horrors of the far future :^)

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>>52943486
>I laugh because, for such a future, laughing is the only sane reaction. My mortal lifespan won't expose me to the horrors of the far future :^)
I don't mean the future anon, I mean the past.
The Emperor will return to us, and on that day you will know the words I have spoken are true. BEWARE THE END TIMES!

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>>52924766
He literally said in the afterword that he was being intentionally subjective in his portrayals of the emperor.

It's almost as if some people enjoy being mad at things.

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>>52943542
>We are one of those silly civilized worlds that are blissfully unaware of the horrors of the galaxy...until the necrons awaken because of the noise made by the orks fighting the tyranids attracted by the psychic energy of the chaos sorcerer's ritual to fight the Eldar raiders
Damn. I'm too mortal to be exposed to that! If only humanity had champions! I wouldn't even care if they had a hard on for wolves or salamanders.

>>52943601
>"Gog" and "Magog" mentioned in the Quran are Gork and Mork
>Gork and Mork have a bunch of sleeping Orks waiting in the desert
>the "old corpse sitting in a golden throne" holding the Emerald Tablet located in Turkey is the Emperor's corpse
>the "black haired, white-skinned brother coming that will return in a blue ship" from Hopi lore is Konrad Curze
>the "well trained angels that come from the sky" at the biblical end of days are Custodians lead by a resurrected Emperor
>Vulkan will return and kill Fulgrim just like Thor and Jorumgandr at Ragnarok
>Kalli the Indian goddess of death and destruction was actually a Keeper of Secrets
>the Hopi Kachinas are Grey Knights
>that invisible ninth planet in our solar system is an Eldar craftworld that's been watching us

Will Abby be usable if FW just change his power sword to Paragon Blade?

>listening to Master of Mankind
>Angron real name is Angronius
Lol holy shit I thought that anon was shitposting

>>52943770
>Magnus is literally Satan
>those monkey people that the gods bred with in the Ramayana were feral abhumans and we're all freaks
>every culture on Earth is based off of the space marine legions and not the other way around
>the Assyrian "Nurgal" god of plagues is literally Nurgle

Anons help I'm drawing way more lines than there are dots

>>52943770
>He knows
Earthling, you'll be collected by Inquisition adepts. Any kind of resistance will be considered hostile behavior and will be dealt with as such.

>>52943883
>We must give sacrifice to Huitzilopochtli the Fifth sun (Astronomicon) to keep it shining for mankind's survival, or the Tzitzimitl, monsters from the stars (Tyranids), will descend and devour humanity in the darkness (Shadow of the Hivemind).
Aaaaaay

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>>52943958
YOU'RE NOT HELPING

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>>52943152
>>52943429
>>52932692
Size shaming of pics all up in my business.... you know I would edit my pic sizes because we used to have lots of anons whine about stuff taking ages to load. NO LONGER! full size posting from now on I promise. Here is a bigger pic of those wolves my mate converted up

>>52944035
Yummy. Thanks m8.

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>>52943883
>humans have a Waaagh! just like orks
>this is why our tech level coincides with the amount of people currently alive
>not the amount of time that has passed

Anyone know of a good place to buy/ place to learn how to make MkII True-scale/ Artscale marine torsos?

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Built my Hetaeron. Now for the arduous process of cleaning and basing before painting until I die.

I'm thinking black inner portions for the shoulder pauldrons to denote rank.

>>52944035
Those actually look pretty awesome. Any more?

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>>52944303
HQ + Troops

most fluffy troops for Myrmidon cult?
do secutarii fit with them at all? or just straight thallax?

>>52944409
>weapon cult
>somehow cybernetic chainsaw zombies aren't worth it.
Adsecularis Convents justify building a mechanicum detachment all by themselves as far as I care. Think of them being to Myrmidons as termigaunts are to Tyranid warriors and carnifexis, living munitions to be flung at the foe.

>>52943429
Eh, that's ZM, right?

Fuck me a wolf on the confines of ZM would be scary. I mean, so is a space marine, don't get me wrong, and especially when they're using flamers and termie armour, but a Fenrisian wolf is up there near genestealers on the list of things you don't want to meet in the closest dark tunnels you so often get in Zone Mortalis.
Don't think they have anything like move through cover or other ZM shenanigans though

>>52944508
How would Custodes fair in ZM?

I'm curious to run mine in it but zero people around me have interest in the playstyle

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Holy Cow. How does that even work

>>52944655
She's basically riding around in a walking tank.

>>52944797
I think the poster's wonderment is more about the proportions and the art in the picture. I mean really you'll have to take the proportions and body inside with a grain of salt but from the position of her head with the shoulders, especially, that does not look particularly flattering.

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>>52944508
>especially when they're using flamers and termie armour
Don't worry, we're friendly

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Thousand-Sons-Legion-Osiron-Pattern-Contemptor-Dreadnought-2017

hello

>>52944854
fuck that's ugly

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>>52944823
We're not

>>52944526
Custodes would destroy everything in zm, they no longer have the problem of "no assault transport" and "5 medusa in your face".

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>>52944854
Thousand Sons stuff looks fantastic.

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>>52944942
Ah damn you filthy dirty traitor

>>52944854
Fuck. I want a do over on the Wolves dreadnought.

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>>52944969
You're not so tough!

Rad grenades, hell of a thing, ain't they?

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IH Libby done up, real happy with how he turned out. need to figure out a slightly better way to get the metallics down, not super sure on those.

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>>52945055
Who need rads grenade ? Those too weak to gain victory through their skills 'n willpower and cannot endure the anvil of war without such forbidden technology

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>TFW got latest army additions are terrible ruleswise

Remember kids, never use Sagittarum or twin Solerite Power Talons.

Ever.

Because I'm using a lot.

>>52945247
The talons look dead sexy though.

>>52945070
once you base that sucker he will pop like a mother fucker. Good job anon

for a myrm cult, would you take ordo reductor matrix of ruin?
Tank hunter doesn't add anything to grav imploders really right? So what weapons should i put on the ArchMagos and his Myrd Destructor group ?

>>52945465
it lets you reroll your chances for 6's which is nice for taking down vehicles with repeated immobilizes, and is your best source of anti-deathstar firepower

>>52944854
Don't know if it's the paint scheme but it seems cluttered and messy.

>>52945497
erm, raw no it doesn't. Since you're rolling on haywire table, not rolling 'to pen', and tank hunter let's you reroll your 'to pen' rolls

>>52945641
graviton imploders are not graviton guns
they wound on armour save and immobilize on a 6 like 40k grav

>>52945674
>>52945674
grav imploders are Graviton rule - read the rules - it states you roll 'instead of rolling to pen as normal' , it's the same as haywire, tank hunter doesn't work

>>52934964
You don't need to study Latin to be able to pronounce any of this. You just need to not be retarded. Anyway enjoy your (you).