Banned! http://magic.wizards.com/en/article s/archive/news/

>using 1 day of MTGO Amonkhet results to justify it

Yeah, that's bullshit. Corporate called them up and told them to fix their stupid decision.

Well, at least this means Standard is officially back on the menu, boys!

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They actually did it, the absolute madmen

>>52919923
LOLOLOLOLOL WIZARDS BTFO YOU LITERALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE DOING DO YOU

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>>52919923
Wizards RnD is obviously a team of experts and competent individuals who know what they're doing

>standard might be ok again

>>52920029

Have they ever, though? It's pretty much been a nonstop 'throw shit at the walls and see what works' method for them as long as I can remember.

>>52919923
>players spewing a tide of hate at Wizards for their awful Standard
>"We uhh we need more result data"
>Ban 3 days after official ban announcement

R&D needs to be completely gutted. They have no idea what they're doing.

Also, how is it that artifact blocks always fuck up Standard super hard? Granted, this wasn't an artifact-based combo like previous ones, but still.

>>52920049
It's gonna be 90% Mardu Vehicles from now on, I assure you.

>>52920064
It has not been this bad in a LONG time

>>52920098
Nah, vehicles was up at the top largely because it could race the combo. Between combo gone and good hate being printed, it will still be top tier, but more manageable.

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Good lord. I thought the fallout from Top would be enough to satisfy them, but once again they prove me wrong.

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>tfw pauper and edh player
>watching how wotc handles other formats

I wish they could just admit they fucked up with the obvious, rather than pretending data magically popped up in 2 days time.

>>52920187

Oh yes, the people who unbanned Protean Hulk are doing a bang up job based on their feefees

>we had this cancerous combo in modern that we banned
>so let's reprint it in standard
either that or they didn't see the interaction in the first place, which is also terrifying

>>52920187
Be careful what you wish for. Remember how long Drake was an issue?

>>52920296
>implying protean hulk unban was a bad idea

>>52920341

They didn't see the combo, the Future Future League was too busy playing complete kitchen table garbage that they thought would be good (Servo Tokens is totally going to be a standard archetype guys)

>>52919957
>data
the data they got is the multitude of pro players on twitter telling them they are fucking stupid not banning the cat.

>>52920296

Hulk is just a normal dies effect in EDH.

>>52920384
Most of WotCs mistakes have been them thinking that garbage would be good, so they ignore their mistakes. Off the top of my head, I know Thragtusk was so pushed because WotC thought everyone would be using Wolfir Silverheart as their powerful 5-drop.

>>52920384
who the hell playtests this shit? saheeli cub was pointed out like 5 minutes after the guardian was spoiled

>>52920439
>who the hell playtests this shit

Complete retards. The same who didn't bother playing too much Emrakul the Promised End because they thought Werewolves were too good. Who thought Collected Company was a bad card not worth playing.

>>52920384
To be fair servo tokens isn't too terrible, it just folds to the combo like almost every other possible deck that wasn't topping.

How the fuck is a 4 mana flicker so broken it needs banning? WTF?

>>52920578
Because it's part of a turn 4 two card instant win combo.

>>52920578
Goes infinite with saheeli rei

Magic is playtested by dunces

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>>52920578
Because it can flicker planeswalkers.
You play Saheeli Rai, play Cat, -2 the Saheeli targeting the cat, flicker the Saheeli Rai with the new cat, and repeat over and over untill you have infinity hasted 1/4s

>>52920587
>>52920589
shitskin splinter twin. A well known combo in all formats so obvious to pick up, right.

>>52920578
planeswalker makes a token copy of a creature with haste that's exiled at the end of turn with one of its abilities, flickering the walker, allowing you to do it again, repeat

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>>52919923

jesus christ wotc

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>Some guy leaves pic related outside Wizards HQ
>Shit guys we'd better ban top
>Some autist orders a bunch of pizzas to Wizards HQ
>Shit guys we'd better ban cat

How do we manipulate them into unbanning SFM in Modern? Apparently it's not too difficult. Maybe a couple prank calls?

>>52920621
Immediately after Felidar Sovereign was spoiled it was figured out by pretty much everyone.

Is there an argument for not banning the cat?

>>52919923
>ban cat
>don't ban gideon
Mardu is going to rape everything

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>>52920680
>Unban SFM
Can we stop with this forced meme?

>>52920711
I mean, I think a decent amount of good hate was printed for the combo in this set. The meta would still probably be limited to 3, maybe 4 good decks, with 4c Saheeli solidly ahead of everyone else and Mardu dropping down

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Now new decks from amonkhet only have to deal with the most aggresive deck in years
>>52920727
Yep

>>52920727
WotC would never ban one of their pet planeswalkers.

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Fuck

>>52920782
This is literally on you
You should haveseen this coming

>>52920384

Reminder. The FFL thought call of the bloodlines Jund was going to be a T1 standard deck.

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>>52920782

>>52920782
eat shit jew

>>52920782
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>52920782
you got what you deserved
>12 copies of both combo pieces
were you planning on making 3 decks of it or something anon?

>>52920711

Oh yeah, sure. Destroying consumer confidence is the big one. This banning combined with the Emrakul/Copter/Reflector Mage is sending the message of "never buy into a tier one deck because it'll just get banned". On a side note it also proves that R&D don't have a clue - we had no bans for seven years and then suddenly shit gets so bad they have to ban three cards at once... and that only made Standard worse!

They also printed hate in Amonkhet, which could have helped the situation - I mean, it didn't, but it was worth waiting to see if cards like Manglehorn would pan out. I think the ban will result in a healthier Standard environment (I mean, how could it not?) but I certainly won't be buying into a tiered deck for a few years after this shitshow.

>>52920810
Reminder: the FFL did not catch Valakut

>>52920760
>cute fanart of cat and pervert god
You got more where that came from, anon?

Is there some sort of internal competition at Wizards to make the company look as incompetent as possible?

Regardless, I'll be picking up a playset at FNM to build a bad budget modern deck.

>>52920727

Maybe so, maybe no. The issue with Copycat was that it was the immovable gatekeeper - if your deck couldn't answer the combo at instant speed on turn 5/6, then you would just lose on the spot. In other words every deck had to be good against Copycat. Now, hopefully, decks will emerge that are good against Mardu but wouldn't have stood a chance against Copycat.

>>52920859
You should totally build mono-white Emeria. It's loads of fun.

>>52919923
Seems like bans happen more then they did a few years ago.

Standard had FOUR banned cards now, that's absurd.

>>52920731
t. jund

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>announce a new banlist not even 3 days ago
>E M E R G E N C Y B A N
Did they fucking forget to include it and didn't realize until 2 days later, or did they think that like 2 days of an Amonkhet standard would give them all the data they need to hit something? Either way is retarded.

>>52920843

I got it from here, so nope

here's the original https://twitter.com/Ishton/status/855955410645340161

>>52920910
They saw the sheer number of people saying they're quitting standard until kaladesh rotates out

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>something something emergency ban powers

>>52920923
why did I laugh at this

>>52920355
>>52920410
t. Casual Timmy shitters who are going to use the trigger to search for a craw wurm.
Anyone with any amount of competitiveness in them is going to use it to find Viscera Seer, Phyrexian Delver, Mikaeus, and Walking Ballista. And that's just in BG.

>>52920906

Wouldn't jund players be happy that something opresses DSJ a little bit?

>>52920939
meme was about as shit tier as saheeli will become so

>>52920910
They got told by the pro players, people who actually play the game.

>>52919923
And so begins the YGO bancycling.

Konami of the Coast, it was nice knowing you. Sorry I hung around so long after you died.

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>They ban Felidar Guardian

MEANWHILE ON THE ACTUAL FUCKING STANDARD METAGAME

>>52920975

You're retarded. Saheeli combo was 35% of the metagame, more if you count other non-5C variants of the deck.

>>52920836
They directly said in the announcement that Copy Cat only got stronger from Amonkhet, which again, is something Pros have been saying for weeks and they just around around with their foots in their dicks promising "LET US ANALYZE MORE DATA GUIS"

>>52920899

I just want to pretend I'm playing Splinter Twin again

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>>52920782
Get fucked

>>52920986
AND IT WAS GETTING KILLED OFF BY MARDU ANYWAYS, NOW GUESS WHO IS GOING TO GET 60%+ OF THE METAGAME

Oh boy, can't wait for 60 percent of the meta to be Mardu Vehicles and slightly less powerful budget versions of them.

>>52920942
>list 4 pieces of a 2-part combo
>the combo needs one less piece than before it can go off
>this is somehow an issue in EDH of all places

>>52920088
>isnt an artifact based combo
saheeli makes artifact copies, try harder to cover for wotc shill

>>52919923
I've been out of the loop with MTG for a while, why exactly was this card banned?

>>52920998
Well, It goes infinite with panharmonicon

>>52921042
Because people aren't buying into the new and exciting decks that Amonketh is bringing us so wizards have to ban the top decks so people will have to buy the new cards for the new decks now.

>>52921007
and there are cards in amonkhet that have game vs vehicles but literally nothing new that interacts favorably with copy-cat.

>>52921042
Part of an infinite combo with Saheeli Rai.

>>52921042
it's in standard with this >>52920616

>>52920942
Or a Bomberman combo!

>>52921007

You're extremely short sighted, and seem to not realize what the format was like. Here's a hint: Saheeli limited the metagame, there were a bunch of decks that simply couldn't function because the combo existed. Now that it doesn't exist, those decks stand more of a chance, and can possibly have a favorable matchup against Mardu.

>>52920975
That's so far back it's not even relevant anymore, the fuck?

>>52921081
Ah. And we can't have combos, or ban a nice big juicy planeswalker now, can we?

>>52921074

Except people were screaming at Wizards to ban the card, retard, because it was extremely oppressive to the format.

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So how many months of suffering will we have to endure until Wizards realizes that the only thing keeping Mardu Vehicles from curbstomping absolutely everything was Saheeli combo and by not touching the vehicles deck as well we're just in for domination?

>>52921128
Ban Heart of Kiran
Release Smugglers Copter

>>52921030
>being able to assemble an infinite combo on turn 1 or 2 with a single spell is perfectly fine
I bet you've never even played against a dedicated competitive deck because you think they're too unfair.

>>52921128
Did you not see all the hate printed in Amonkhet for artifacts and creatures?

>>52921161

No, in case you didn't notice from this thread the people screaming about Mardu don't actually play the game. Hence why they are using results from last month to try to make their point.

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So glad I don't play Standard anymore.
And Miraclefags got btfo, too.
At least Modern isn't in a terrible place. Not great, but more playable than other formats. Everyone can just move to Modern and have fun with us.

>>52921182
>yfw Death's Shadow gets banned in the next update

Glad it wasn't Saheeli Rai, I wanted to try her out in my Metalwork Colossus deck, also featuring Fling.

>>52920578
Hello! How can I, also a retard, acquire a job with you in the FFL?

>>52921150
YOU COULD ALREADY ASSEMBLE IT ON TURN 2 WITHOUT HULK!
Make Mikaeus your Commander, T1 Ritual Vault Ring, Cast Mikaeus, Cast Ballista for 0, win the game.
No Protean Hulk needed.

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>>52921194
I play Burn. I am neutral about a DS ban.

>>52920899
is this sarcasm or not? I was thinking of making it myself because it looked fun to play

>>52921150
The chances of a deck drawing Flash and Hulk are low enough that it can be ignored. More likely you would have to tutor for one of them, which puts the combo closer to turn 4 or 5.

This is EDH, you can already do wins on turn 2 with the right draws, and Hulk is not any worse then many of the cards in the format.

>>52920842
Reminder: the FFL thought UW Mass Polymorph was going to be the runaway deck of ZEN-SOM.
It really was a super sweet deck.

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>Couple this with consensus among a wide sampling of pros and feedback (and pizza) from our community and we decided to take action.
>with consensus among a wide sampling of pros and feedback (and pizza) from our community and we decided to
>among a wide sampling of pros and feedback (and pizza) from our community and we
>wide sampling of pros and feedback (and pizza) from our community
>of pros and feedback (and pizza) from
>and feedback (and pizza)
>and pizza
>pizza

>>52919923
See, while the cat was totally justified as a ban, I don't like that they banned it three days after the announcement one bit. That makes me really uneasy.
>>52921182
Not looking forward to the green hell one bit. My elves matchup is horrible.

>>52920578
When you decide that instant speed removal is unfun or too strong for standard, it turns out that a splinter twin style combo is really fucking strong.

>>52920471
They only played CoCo in fucking TRIBAL decks even come Innistrad block
Like Werewolf Tribal

>>52920727
You can jam gideon into any deck with white in it, G/X decks have access to artifact hate, R/X decks have smoother mass artifact removal, vehicles have always had competition and now they have better competition and the giant faggot cat keeping the other decks from showing up has stopping slapping our gf's collective asses tfw no gf

>>52921258
It's not sarcasm. Mono White Emeria blink is loads of fun to play, and it's pretty good against DSJ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bkfLrEj-Xs

>>52921194

Death's Shadow isn't oppressive enough to push so many other decks out of the format. It's still a 1 for 1 deck at its core.

>>52921274
https://mobile.twitter.com/samstod/status/856967927957831680

>>52920943
Well now that actual jund is pretty much non-existent I just lump dsj into the jund category but actual jund would probably have a snapback. I was just joking that players in colors that already have good beaters wouldn't want to deal with sfm. But even then I don't see sfm being insane in modern considering how much investment it takes.

>>52920836
>worth waiting to see if cards like Manglehorn would pan out
t. dumb ass testers
I was fine with this being an excuse for not banning out copter but not the cat, Manglehorn does even less to Saheeli combo than act of authority or thalia did against it. as seen by the ban here and the fact that mardu vehicles struggled harder to deal with the deck after amonkhet on mtgo manglehorn was better in saheeli decks than against

FUCKING FINALLY

>>52919957
Do you follow Kenji on Twitter >_>

>>52921109
You can't have Turn 4 Two-Piece combos in standard that severely limit the metagame, no.

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>>52921350
>tomatoes
>pineapple
>from Pizza Hut

That's it. I'm out. Stoddards shit taste in pizza is the last straw.

>>52921031
Oh shit that's true, I missed that. Yep, it's officially a time honored tradition that artifacts ruin everything

>>52921409
Did that guy ever lose any mm17 draft?

>>52921419
I mean I'm a degenerate pineapplefag and I wouldn't even want that pizza.

>>52919923
>Legacy is freed from the Miracles stranglehold
>Standard is freed from the godawful 2-deck format it has become
IT'S THE WILD WEST OUT HERE LADS

WHAT ARE Y'ALL BREWIN' AS A CELEBRATION

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>>52921419
>talking shit about pizza hut

>>52921109
can't have combos that can often guarantee a t4 win against most decks in a standard format with pathetic removal, burn, and counters you brainlet

>>52921479
>talking good about pizza hut

>>52921506
>Liking pizza

>>52919923
The cat should have been banned in the official announcement. But after they let it slide, they should have given the meta more time to adjust. Basically, a rush ban like this is bullshit. If the ban wasn't justified on monday, it isn't justified 2 days later.

have some consistency, have some balls, wotc. Either don't ban it, or admit you were wrong as fuck on monday.

>>52921523
>eating food

>>52921462
Why would you brew new legacy brews when you should just be playing elves?

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>>52919923
>change bannings to be twice as fast
>still have to do emergency bannings anyway

Holy fuck how bad is standard?

>>52920088
I think it's basically just that MaRo likes artifacts a lot, so he'll push the fuck out of them when there's an artifact set.

>>52921523
Real pie is cozy.

Not that New York cheese on toast bullshit either.

Napoli.

Well aside from the bread factor of course.

>carbs, amirite lads?

>>52921566
>sissy baby Elves
>not Manly Big Red for Men

thank fucking christ, i might actually play standard again

>>52921238
Except that's wrong you fucking retard, you need a sac outlet to kill the Ballista because it's getting +1/+1 from Mikaeus.
Confirmed for having no idea how to play EDH. Opinion disregarded.

>>52920782
Brew it with some Glorybringer and other such ETB effects to get your value. Other than that, get fukt!

Also >12 copies

>>52920782
I pity you. You bought the cards after the "lol no bans" announcement, and 2 days later wotc fucks you over. This is why this banning was a terrible decision, even if the ban itself was justified.

>>52921539
I'll give you a hint of what the meta was going to be: 4c Saheeli curb stomping every deck except Mardu vehicles just like the past three months of standard, except now it can turn up another 10% on vehicles thanks to amonkhet cards. I made the argument for copter when that was banned because okay answers were printed in Aether Revolt but the cat had to fucking go.

>>52921578
Maro doesn't determine power level of cards, that's Developments job.

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>start doing make "le battlecruiser" magic because timmies don't like lightning strike or counterspells
>standard catches on fire and people start jumping off the titanic
>WOAH okay we'll ban 3 cards is the format better yet?
>titanic hits the ice-berg
>w-we'll ban stuff twice as much please the format is fine
>titanic does a u-turn to hit the iceberg again
>WE'LL BAN ANYTHING JUST PLEASE KEEP PLAYING YOUR BORING CURVE INTO GIDEON THIS IS THE WAY THE GAME IS MEANT TO BE PLAYED

>>52919957
>Standard back on the menu

Don't bother until rotation

>>52921632

Didn't you know? Maro does everything in Magic, it's all his fault.

>>52920975
It's cuz Catcombo was keeping out every deck that could compete with Mardu

>>52921632
Well then someone in Development has a hardon for artifacts.

>>52921663
>It's not because we're pushing completely unfun gameplay!

Hero's Downfall better get a reprint

reminder that instead of 2 unbeatable decks there will now only be 1 unbeatable deck aka mardu vehicles

>>52921709
Not if I don't play the format.

Haha time for a new EDH deck

>>52921631
I agree that the cat had to fucking go, but on Monday. I think it's a worse outcome for the longterm health of standard to rush ban 2 days after you just issued a "lol no changes, get fucked" announcement. Consumer confidence is going to go down the shitter.

>>52921709
except nothing about that is true, Snakes'n'Ballistas beat sthe Vehicles pretty hard, but couldn't beat Saheeli.

>>52921709
Until it gets banned ;^)

That'll be the new standard meta

Building your deck for a tournament guessing which cards will be banned that week

>>52921709
b-b-but muh Manglehorn!
Amonkhet is the lowest power set we've seen in years, dare I say it, lower even than BFZ. There is literally nothing in it that will upstage any of the current decks.

>>52921703
Never // Return is the best you're going to get.

>>52921709

Reminder that you're an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about. Amonkhet has plenty of hate for Mardu, not to mention this opens the floodgates for decks that would have been good if not for the fact that they couldn't race Saheeli combo.

>>52921630

I agree with this post. Wizards is really doing everything they can to shake consumer confidence. We already know the best deck in Modern gets the axe every other ban decision. They gut standard the first time around, burning people who spent money on Smuggler's Copter and Emrakul, then they obliterated Miracles, the most-played deck in Legacy, people who have spent years and thousands of dollars crafting their decks, now they do a fake-out ban with Cat Combo, so anyone who was playing the deck or was buying into the deck got fucked if they did it after the ban announcement.

None of this would be a problem if decks were cheap and easy to switch/trade to, but Standard, Modern, and Legacy are all so fucking overpriced that the majority of people can only invest into one decent deck.

This is a total fucking shitshow. How much longer can the game survive with these retards at the helm killing consumer confidence?

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>>52921729
>people will still argue that the Reserved List needs to stay because it's the epitome of consumer confidence and without it the rivers would run backward and there would be a swarm of locusts etc etc

honestly standard is still a dog shit format these days. there is basically no reason to play it for at least a year at this point but probably more

>>52921709
Why is people still spewing this shit? Read the fucking thread.

Mardu was only the Second Best Deck because it was the only combination of cards that had any chance against CatLady.

Now that the Cat is Kill, other decks will arise.

Also there were tons of good hate printed for vehicles in Amonkhet.

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Can someone explain to me why this was banned?
Seems like a decent, harmless enough card. I clearly don't play enough magic but from what I can see the only benefits are:

A: You can have a card that's been "Arrested" or enchanted in some way tossed and then come back to the field clean and fresh. And

2) You can have a card's "Enter the Battlefield" type effect happen twice when you use this card.
Is that about right?

I really don't know.

>>52921777
Read the thread.
>>52920616
>>52920616
>>52920616

>>52921777
It goes infinite with a 3 mana planeswalker and wins the game on the spot

>>52921758
>anyone who was playing the deck or was buying into the deck got fucked

Except as multiple people have said in this thread, the deck is still good because at its core it was a value deck. It just no longer has an infinite combo.

>>52921777
It combos with this: >>52920616

She uses her second ability, makes a token, the token blinks the cat, the cat blinks her, she uses the second ability, and so on and so on until you have an infinite army of 1/4 artifact cats with haste.

>>52921703
If Downfall does not get a reprint in Hour of Devastation I'm going to flip a tit.

>>52921752
Looks like I'm Never//Returning to standard.

Planeswalkers are truly the worst cards

>>52921813
see >>52921752

>>52921801
You still have lower value in cards and also you don't get to play the deck you wanted to play

>>52921729
See I don't get this, clearly the most recent sets have not been up to par with the past and certain unreasonable shit has gotten through, the biggest one in fact has been this combo but Emrakul was boring as shit and copter was rampant as fuck. Would I have preferred they just printed better answers and try to let it sort itself out? Yes but Amonkhet has even less answers to anything other than artifacts than any of the most recent sets. Beyond this though when was the last time anything was banned from standard? Innistrad block? that was like 6 fucking years ago, when something does run rampant they often spend too long to ban it (Ravager) than immediately shutting it down. Wizards has a track record of doing whatever they can to avoid banning cards so if anything people should write this off as an anomaly and shut the fuck up about MUH CONSUMER CONFIDENCE because with any luck we won't be seeing any more standard bans for another 5 years

>>52921801

Just like how Splinter Twin survived with its key card banned, right? It's okay, it's still just a pile of RU goodstuff, right? It's still competitive, right?

>>52921763
Legacy/Vintage are already dead, demonstratably due to the reserved list. That's completely different from this situation.

>>52921832
>You still have lower value in cards

The only valuable cards in the deck are cards that are valuable because they see play elsewhere (Chandra and enemy fastlands).

>>52921864

You really have no idea what Splinter Twin was, do you?

>>52920711
Only possible argument for not banning cat is 'ban Saheeli instead'

>>52921844
>write this off as an anomaly
This one event is not why Standard is a shitpile, this one event perfectly encapsulates WHY Standard is a shitpile.
>the total disaster that was BFZ block
>abruptly changing the rotation again
>Eldrazi winter in modern
>bans in Standard
>completely missing Cat Combo
>refusing to ban Cat Combo
>emergency banning Cat Combo
All of development and the FFL needs to be fired.

>>52920782
great for kitchen table magic, it's FINE

>>52921610
No you don't; the balista kills itself the moment it removes its last/only +1/+1 counter.

>>52921818
I can agree a bit. I feel like planeswalkers like Tezz Seeker or Venser can be fun

I just absolutely and completely despise current planeswalker formula. Hurr +1 is stall hurr -X is kill thing or draw card or make token.-big X = win the game in a special snowflake way. It's just obnoxious that they hit the field and start immediately locking you out of the game via power and value. It's the most unfun shit.

I would say they would still be fine but WotC has to protect their OC card type and never print any removal or anything that interacts favorably with the damn things. The best we have is a 3 CMC sorcery speed after they already used an ability once aka got their value already? Fuck off

>>52921801
Wrong. Maybe if they banned the trash mythic instead of the actually playable uncommon but nah gotta keep that memethic rare in.

THE PIZZA WORKED

Anyway, absent anything else, good on them for making the correct decision.

>>52921569

It's not really an emergency ban so much as their bosses telling them to fix their fuckup of not putting it on the announcement on Monday.

>>52921945

Great argument, you sure showed me.

>>52921918
>Other non-Human creatures you control get +1/+1 and have undying.

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>>52921752
BB1 AT SORCERY SPEED IS NOT GOOD REMOVAL. NOBODY CARES ABOUT AWAKEN. NOBODY CARES ABOUT AN OVERCOSTED AFTERMATH ABILITY THAT BEST CASE SCENARIO CAN TAG A SCROUNGER AND MAKE A CHUMPER. STOP MAKING THESE THINGS HAVE ABILITIES NOBODY CARES ABOUT TO KNOCK IT DOWN TO SORCERY SPEED. JUST GIVE ME INSTANT SPEED.

FUCK.

The one bad thing about this is that now everything about the upcoming Standard format will be parsed through the lens of Copy Cat, and every flaw will be treated as a referendum on the banning.

And there will be flaws, it's not going to be a perfect standard and Mardu is still probably too good, but it's also way better than it would have been with no action. I think there's going to be a bunch of different midrange, combo, and control decks that are viable and I'm actually really excited about the format.

>>52921918
Doubling down on knowing fuckall about cards and the format, thank you for confirming that I can disregard anything you say.

>>52922007
>bunch of different midrange, combo, and control
>combo and control

Do you realize what year this is? But if you take out combo and control in your statement it becomes 100% correct

>>52921984
okay missed that part.
never mind then, you do need a viscera seer. Or a night of souls betrayal. Or an ashnod's altar. Or literally any sac outlet. I forget, was this supposed to ruin the combo somehow?

>>52919923
Too little, too late. My interest in all competitive formats for this game is absolutely dead.

>Standard is trash, will now be uncontested Gideon assfuckings
>Modern is literally a one deck format right now because of Death's Shadow, a card they still haven't done anything about because "b-but it's not a t3 kill xDD"
>Legacy had the last good Control deck, not just in Legacy but in competitive play, murdered with Miracles

This ban is just a knee-jerk reaction to the huge negative feedback of them not announcing it with the rest of the bannings. They could give a shit less about the health of a format so long as people keep giving them money.

Fuck WotC.

>>52921994
Holy shit this just in secret spoiler from Hour of Devastation

>Kill a man
>1BB
>sorcery
>destroy target creature or planewalker. Your opponent loses 1 life. During your opponents next unkeep they gain 1 life
>mythic

Guys we finally have a good answer now weee fucking based WotC

>>52922039
I think there's going to be viable Marvel decks at the very least and I would consider that combo

And a control deck literally won PT Kaladesh. I know that's not representative of the metagame, but there's a lot of powerful control elements in this standard and I think control decks are fairly well positioned.

>>52920971
Honest question about this; didn't they used to have pros on their R&D team? What the fuck happened? Did they just stop recruiting people that actually play the game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy8dUJEOqos

>>52922084

Mythics shouldn't cost less than 4 mana, lets bump that up to BBB1 casting cost just to balance it out, Wizards style.

>>52922154
They still have pros, but only the shitty pros

>>52922197
I hope you're joking.

What's the point of having pros on the R&D team if they're the shit ones?

>>52922154
The FFL is the league they use to playtest new sets. They are all casual Timmy shitters, and balance accordingly.
They posted some of their decks from KLD-AER standard, no shit, GW aggro with x4 Angel of Invention and Cultivator of Blades was the deck to beat.

>>52922154
They do have former Pro Tour players on their R&D teams still, I believe. Tim Aten and Melissa DeTora who were on the development team for Kaladesh, and Aten and Sam Stoddard were on the development team for Aether Revolt

But I think those skills probably fade somewhat over time as you get removed from the environment of playing Magic all the time. Especially when it comes to judging current Standard formats - there's definitely more distance when you're not as directly engaged with the format.

>>52922227
The point is saying that you now have pros on your team, so you can say that any of your mistakes were too obscure for even pros to see and therefore its not your fault.

>>52922229
Most pros aren't very great at deckbuilding. That's why they have teams, the lackeys who can analyze a format and make a deck are all hoarded into a room and they spit out lists for the better players to use.
Surprise.

Another probable factor in their bad process is that by all accounts (especially Glassdoor reviews) the corporate environment at Wizards is fairly dysfunctional and heavily political and shit so I'd imagine there's a fair bit of bullshit with development and bans and stuff. Probably hinders your ability to be effective quite a bit.

>>52922259
>>52922241
>ability to see a splinter twin-esque combo diminishes with not playing magic all the time
except total casuals and pros alike saw it within minutes of guardian being spoiled

>>52922229
That sounds fucking awful. You'd think they would invest a bit more heavily in getting competitively-minded players to test their cards considering it's probably less expensive than the money they lose from nobody playing their shitty Standard formats.

>>52922241
I can understand skills fading but it wasn't even 5 minutes before people were asking why the fuck a t4 infinite got printed in Standard, and their shitty response of "lol we didn't see it our bad, we're not banning it yet though :^)" was pure stupidity.

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>GR pummeler players right now

>>52922154
They do have former pro players there, however, the team is relatively small, and they suffer from what's called "incestuous design". Basically, they only listen to each other and their ideas are warped around what only THEY think is good. With no outside input, their meta warps pretty hard because they're trying to out compete each other instead of objectively looking at cards and interactions. From this, you get stuff like, "CoCo will only be played in Werewolves" because that's the only place they think to put it. Or, "Standard will warp around Zurgo Helmsmasher " because that's the only thing they think about it.

It's like playing at a kitchen table against your friends "unbeatablr" goblin deck (this one actually happened to me. I started playing with a new group, and one of them had a goblin deck everyone was scared of. So when I beat him with pauper Delver, everyone flipped their shit)

Why didn't they ban saheeli instead?

>>52920098
>It's gonna be 90% Mardu Vehicles from now on, I assure you.
Apparently Amonkhet pushed Mardu Vehicles out pretty hard. Because of all the artifact hate... that Copy Cat used on them.

>>52922310
Saheeli really isn't the issue here, and Saheeli never saw play before the Felidar bullshit. Plus it's better because that way their response can be "just brew something with the leftover pieces" because they've banned a 30-cent uncommon rather than a planeswalker.

>>52922310
Because she's the Mythic Rare. Like hell they'll ban a (((Planeswalker))), their new face for this game.

I used to think the people saying Planeswalkers are a mistake were people stuck in the past. A few years later and Wizards refuses to print answers to them.

>>52922310
saheeli itself is just a value walker that saw little to no play before cat, it's also a mythic vs banning out an uncommon so you'll still get people who think "well I have them, I want to try them out with a different deck style now"

>>52922298
>>52922299
Well I figure the printing happened because - by all accounts - their processes got insanely fucked up by all the rotation switching and block size changes and confusion over stuff dating back to Origins

I'm not saying their processes are good, their development team has definitely been fucking up massively and needs to be overhauled, but I'm not sure the problems are as simple as the pros on the R&D team being bad players, or whatever

>>52922310
Because muh planeswalkers.
That's actually the reason. New players love them, and she was on the box art for the set.

MTG has been on a downward spiral for half a decade now thanks to Wizard's incompetence. This is just further proof of it.

The last good Standard was New Phyrexia/Innistrad. Never again will Standard be that good unless Wizards pulls their head out of their asses and stop appealing to retarded casuals.

>>52921918

Read the cards you're talking about, dummy. Black Mike gives all non-humans you control +1/+1 in addition to undying. Thus, a Ballista cast for 0 would be 1/1.

>>52922343
That argument is totally destroyed by the fact that this infinite happened in the same block. That's utterly unacceptable from a quality control perspective. A garbage format like Modern can expect some of those interactions with evergreen keywords/mechanics, but a narrowly-controlled Standard? Come on.

>>52922309
>Standard will warp around Zurgo Helmsmasher
lol did they actually say this

U N C U C K E D

>>52922310
Oy vey! If you ban the mythic, the goyim will stop buying packs!

>>52922375
I agree it shouldn't happen. I just don't think it's because Tim Aten or Sam Stoddard are bad players, or because they're Timmies, or whatever. It's probably something more systemic.

>>52922343
>saheeli printed in kaladesh
>felidar guardian printed in aether revolt
forget standard the fucking combo can happen in limited

>>52922389
reported for racism

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DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD
Still pissed about Emmy being banned

>>52922379
That's one of the more sensible things they've said and I'm not even sure I'm joking

>>52922406
emrakul was a boring card, it can get fucked

>>52922389
>>52922354
>>52922338
Jesus why all the fucking /pol/ memes, they didn't ban her because who the fuck used her before Cat was printed? Use your brains.

>>52921925
It being a sorcery doesn't matter in regards to getting an ability off - once the player plays their walker and it hits the field, they get priority again and can activate it immediately, before you can use an instant to do something to it. A walker will ALWAYS be able to get off one of its abilities (unless there's a pithing needle or similar preventing it) or they SOMEHOW get it out on your turn - in which case it being sorcery speed removal still isn't a big deal.

Does someone have the link or screencap where wizards admit they didnt see the felidar guardian and saheli interaction?

>>52922424
It's just a dumb joke you autistic jew

>>52922470
You're right, your jokes ARE dumb.

>>52922402
AHAHAHAHAHAH

>>52922365
I found INN - RTR to be good, even with all the Thragtusk shit. INN - RTR - M14 as well. Khans block was good at the cost of being ridiculously pricey.

>>52922463
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/m-files-aether-revolt-part-1-2017-02-03

>>52922488
hate speech is no laughing matter. you could find yourself on the receiving end of hefty fines or even prison time.

don't be toast, think before you post.

Wait, so can I build... budget brews now? And maybe even have them win?

>>52922309
More to the point, they get stuck in the awkward situation of continuing to remember how powerful cards were before the changed them...after already changing them. So cards that are too weak to impact the real metagame will still influence and warp their testing because, to some extent, they'll be unconsciously building around them. Meanwhile, cards that were too weak to play constructively might get a small cost decrease or power bump for limited purposes, but they still don't think of them as anything special, so they slip through the cracks.

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>>52922507
>don't be toast
Did you just tell me to go back into the toaster OVEN!?!?!?
Fucking R E P O R T E D !

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>>52922507
europe is leaking

>>52922408
im gonna need more stories asap, or a link to a list of ffl fuckups we can read

>>52922309
Another problem would be that I don't think they've gotten a new hire in...a while.
Yeah, Development is former pros. Former. And they haven't played competitively in years.
They need an injection of new blood, and for that new blood to not be treated as being lesser/worse/unknowledgeable. They need more people considering how damn many cards they're making a year nowadays, but they can't fall into the trap of having those new people end up in the same places they themselves are.

>>52922507
Not if you don't live in the "Race to be third world Union"

>>52922534
are you seriously fucking implying that a TOASTER OVEN would be enough to hold the nearly TWELVE TRILLION JEWS SLAIN IN THE HOLOCAUST?!?!?!

i'm fucking calling the police on you for holocaust denial you shitlord

>>52922545
sure here's a list of relevant slip ups
>battle for zendikar
>oath of the gatewatch
>kaladesh
>aether revolt
>amonkhet

Innistrad actually wasn't total ass even if they did manage to turn it into zendikar-lite

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>>52922507
Go to bed, Sweden. You need to make breakfast for your wife and Ahmed tomorrow morning.

>>52921945
this. felidar guardian is legit a fun card to play with lots of fun syndergies. Without Saheeli, guardian is still playable. without guardian, saheeli is pure garbage.

they should have banned saheeli

>>52922545
All of Urza block. There is so much "holy shit what were you thinking" in there.

>>52922590
Don't forget that they forgot to print a middle set in Theros block

>>52922595
sadly my wife and her boyfriend were slain in a grenade attack a few months ago

all i know is that immigrants were definitely not involved.

>>52922518
>Wait, so can I build... budget brews now?
Yes.
>And maybe even have them win?
No. It's still Standard after all.

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>>52922075
>Modern is literally a one deck format right now because of Death's Shadow, a card they still haven't done anything about because "b-but it's not a t3 kill xDD

are you stoopid? it's like 8% of decks played in the format

>>52922598
I'm of the opinion that, assuming that banning one of two pieces kills what needs to be killed, you should always ban the cheaper one. If the more expensive piece can find use somewhere else, that means that players haven't wasted their money as much. Even if it can't, the devaluation is no greater than it would be if the more expensive card were the one that had been banned.

>>52922598
I would say "can't ban those chase mythics!" but, well, Emrakul. So I guess it's "can't ban those planeswalkers!"

>>52922598
but muh representation
how will i have an autistic indian waifu without wizards telling me what I should play

>>52922556
no one wants the job, for one, you have to move to bumfuck nowhere and it will only be temporary most of the time, and the pay is dogshit.

you'd think it would be good, but it is NOT, your essentially a temp-intern.

>>52922619
Format diversity is our strength :^)

>>52922660
Emrakul got banned because despite being a storyline card she's not the new face of MtG.

Planeswalkers are the image WotC wants, so autistic children with no sense of self or identity can identify with them and buy more Funko Pop dolls.

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>>52922518
>ywn be able to build Standard RDW again

>>52922643
>you should always ban the cheaper one

i think that logic fails in this case. Saheeli is more "expensive" simply because its a mythic vs. an uncommon. at it's lowest, saheeli was like $4 a copy..hardly pricey by magic standards.

Felidar is simply a more compelling and skill-intensive card to play. Would it have seen play? no one knows for sure, but it had a chance. Saheeli is really, really bad without the threat of combo, and won't be touched.

I want WotC to be punished for not banning Saheli by accidentally printing another version of Felidar Guardian in the next set.

>>52922728
Was writing a reply but this basically.

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reservoir storm is back baby

>>52922758
Oh my god this please it would be the most poetic justice.

>>52922728
>Felidar is simply a more compelling and skill-intensive card to play
>uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, i'll bounce the card with an etb effect
MAN that is skill intensive how could they even have banned such a compelling card?

>>52922792
I mean, compared to the Planeswalker with the +1 that does essentially nothing and the -2 that only exists to be used in an infinite combo, yeah.

>>52922619
Is your (ex) wife's son okay?

>>52922803
Honestly scrying 1 and then potentially dealing one to a planeswalker is already more skill intensive than picking the card on your board with the best ETB, her -2 is nearly the same thing but you can also choose to copy your best beater regardless of any ETB effect and her ult just pushes guardian out of the picture as far as "interesting" is concerned

>>52922075

Modern's fine right now, quit your whining because you don't play removal.

>>52919923

>4 cards banned this standard season

And none of them are even that good in Modern. Really says something about how fucked up R&D is. "Lack of answers" is actually killing the game.

>>52919957
I for one welcome our new mardu deck overlords!

>lets print a 4 cmc spell to answer a turn 4 combo!
>outcast!
>its O ring on flash!

>>52922686
This one stings. WotC's focus on Turn Everything Sideways will make it so that RDW will fade from memory as a viable option for Standard.

>>52922920
Answers are unfun
Having your deck totally invalidated at LITERALLY any time now is though

>>52922925
I legitimately can't remember the last time we had an almost-viable Burn deck in Standard.

Maybe Theros? And even then Grey Merchant put a stop to that shit real fast.

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>>52919923
>we shouldn't let combos...get out the door in the first place. For that we...are making changes to try to prevent this from happening again

>>52922803
-2 can function exactly the same as the cat etb in standard and every walker is meant to be a wincon for that color pair. They dont want to hurt the weaker izzet decks to kill a jeskai deck, and come on you can tell the ffl was using saheeli to jerk off under the table by spamming gearhulks.

>>52922964
>people asked for more variety in Standard than just "turn creatures sideways"
>R&D puts combo decks in Standard
>the combo decks still end in turn creatures sideways
>everyone is fucking pissed
>WotC will take this to mean combo should never be in Standard again

Rest in peace.

>>52922959
Straight-up burn, I couldn't even tell you. Red aggro would probably THS-KTK block, that was a good time.

>drop early Swiftspears and Foundry Street Denizens
>play burn and token spells
>swing with fuckhuge Swiftspears and Denizens

>>52922980
You forgot
>because the combo used creatures it was unable to be interacted with

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>>52922939
>Answers are unfun

But necessary. Look at the shitshow we're in now.

>>52923015
If you read the second part of my post you'd have realized I was being sarcastic

>>52923009
But people hate their creatures dying, so we need less removal!

Less counterspells, because players hate having their big spells stopped!

JUST

TURN

CREATURES

SIDEWAYS

>>52922920
The constant bannings is one of the main reason I stopped playing Standard.

Its absurd to think that from Coldsnap to Mirrodin Besieged there were no Standard bans and now we get four a season.

>>52922959
Boros burn was viable during the tail end of RTR/THS standard after M15 got printed. There were a bunch of solid burn spells in the format like boros charm, searing blood, stoke the flames, lightning strike, warleader's helix, etc. It ran Eidolon and Young Pyromancer, and maybe a couple of other creatures? Gray Merchant was a thing, but the deck also had Skullcrack. The deck was pretty solidly tier 2, along with stuff like jund monsters and green devotion.

>>52923133
>four a season
Nigger the last time something was banned from standard was 2011, you can't even say "oh my god they ban 4 things every season from standard" when this is the first time in 6 years that anything has been banned.

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>>52921911
>>52921844

The fact that they were suggesting that something in Amonkhet might help fix Copy Cat was a nice build helping of facepalm.

Look at the set. NOTHING printed would help any decks cope with Copy Cat. In fact what was printed would just help Copy Cat shit more on Mardu Vehicles (Which it has overtaken in the meta) and nearly every other build that mattered. It was only getting ready to get buffed by Amonkhet. This just makes the R&D team look even more incompetent. They couldn't spot an infinite consisting of a two card combo printed in the same damn block (Maybe a bit of leeway if the combo consisted of a card from Aether Revolt and Battle for Zendikar or something but no, the same damn block) that was figured out on Mythic Spoiler within minutes of the damn cat getting posted.

I'm starting to get to the point where I'm being more entertained by their ineptitude than by the actual game.

>>52923187
The fuck are you on about?

The previous standard ban was earlier this year.

>>52923216
I don't know how they thought Amonkhet would add anything when Amonkhet >limited feels like dog shit with no good removal

>Heart of Kiran is still a thing
laughing out loud at you family

>>52877409
Hey you fucking bitch, I hope you're here because the ban came even before I predicted >>52877484

Fucking eat shit.

>>52923260
Oh so you're even dumber than your original post lead on. In this case only 3 bannings happened on the last cycle and only one on this cycle, so your statement is still as pathetically hyperbolic.

Shoulda sold saheeli at the prerelease

Fuck

>>52923311
wasn't worth much at prerelease tbqh, selling with the announcement of guardian is the correct answer

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>>52923283
Here anon. For you.

>>52923001
And Rabblemaster. That fucker was the tits.

>>52923001
>THS-KTK block
Aw man, I remember my deck from that standard. Never changed it once, never got sick of it. Deck revolved around turning things into 1/1 Frogs and setting them on fire.

>>52920616
>>52920711

Why not just patch the card so it doesn't work on planeswalkers?

>>52920711
Well, they should have printed more playable instant removal. That would have fixed it just as well.
Not much of an argument, but that would have been a better fix.

>>52923587
Is there a precedent for that?
Honestly it would have been the best course of action, IMO.

>>52923587
Wizards never, ever does errata like that anymore. That would arguably look even worse than a late ban.

>>52923598
Shame it's unpopular.
>Timmy's Big McLargeHuge creature attacks
>drop whatever instant speed removal
>Timmy cries on Reddit for one thousand years instead of building a better deck
>WotC listens to him bitch and moan and limits removal in favor of enormous threats

>>52923603
The only time in recent history that I can remember they did an errata for balance reasons was for Commander 2013, where they errata'd Marath, Will of the Wild so X couldn't be 0, otherwise they'd have to deal with the fallout of having one card create infinite ETB and death triggers.

>>52919923

HAHAHAHAHA

How can you be this bad at your job and not get fired?

>>52923651
>somewhere out there is a universe where Marath never got erratad.
> where all you need to win is Marath + Impact Tremors
>nobody laughs at Naya decks in this universe
>nobody

>>52923700
Naya decks arent a joke, everyone respects what they can do in my meta anyways.

>>52923587
>patch the card
The Hearthstone thread is that way, kiddo

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>>52923700
I actually have a window into that universe.

>>52919923
Can't you turn two of these into an engine for something or just legally stall the game indefinitely by bouncing them back and forth?

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>>52920782
>White Cat Fuck boy Gets Reamed By Big Ban

>>52923759
Even hearthstone doesn't patch cards anymore. They literally created formats so they wouldn't have to patch cards.

>>52923839
You use it in combination with this card >>52920616 to win the game on that turn.

>>52923839
Its a may and you can't infinitely loop it if it's not advancing the game state

>>52923839
>Can't you turn two of these into an engine for something

Yes.

>just legally stall the game indefinitely by bouncing them back and forth?

No. Because you "may" use the ability, if you keep doing it and it has no effect on the gamestate, your opponent can request that you stop or be penalized for slow play at a judge's discretion.

>>52923839
>may
No. It's not a mandatory action so you'd use shortcuts and just say how many times you want the loop to happen.

>>52923863
They literally just nerfed STB and Spirit Claws less than a month ago.

>>52923759
>>52923863
Should have gone with Yugioh. They were crazy enough to heavily errata some stuff like CED so they could unban it.

>>52920426
To be completely fair, if not for Thrag and maybe Vorapede, Silverheart WOULD have been the big pushed 5 drop green creature everyone used.

That standard just had no shortage of green 5 drops that were fucking awesome.

>>52923900
Yugioh is a complete and utter shitshow.

t. someone that played it competitively for 5 years straight

>>52923893
the exceptions htat make the rule. Those cards were so awful, they HAD to be nerfed.

Uncommon opinions:
>Censor will let other decks deal with Mardu vehicles. It'll still be top tier, but won't be as oppressive
>Saheeli might still see play. Her -2 is great with Exert cards and I can see her seeing play in a midrange shell.
>Amonkhet will still fucking suck but it's better than the shitshow the format was before
>Torrential gearhulk will become a 25$ card

>>52923952
Nerfs and buffs have always come about every 3-4 months, and they still are. You can't say "anymore" when they're literally on the same pace for card changes that they've always been.

See: http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Card_changes

>>52921758
The problem I see is that what's good for the game/tournaments/players is not always good for investers.

Yes waiting two extra days was stupid, but they were going to have to ban the cat, or we would be stuck in another long haul of two deck format for who knows how long.

It sucks taht it happened like this but the cat HAD to go. Even without the planeswalker, that cat creates stupid value.

>>52923133
That's because wizards thought it would be a good idea to remove control from the format, forgetting that control is sort of the shit-test for combo decks.

Now we get neither. MAGIC THE TAPPENING IS BACK BABY

>>52922365
I thought standard was decent until after Rtr.

>>52919957
We're talking about the people who banned top fucking over blue decks and killing a pretty expensive tier 1 deck instead of banning terminus effectively killing said tier 1 deck and demoting it to tier 2-3 and while gutting the ability of non-blue decks to have Card Quality.

>>52924801
shit was old and miracles ruled the roost too long.

formats crap anyways, a format literally for people who can gather cards you can't buy without spending the price of a car and can't be reprinted

>>52922075
Modern is doing good you little shit

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>>52925544
>doing good
>literally 99% of their tournament scene was deleted and replaced with standard instead
>format literally relegated to FNMs

>>52925864
Im happy with that. My lgs has a good modern meta

>>52925544
I wouldn't say so and Modern is my primary format. You have a problem as a format when 90% of your tier 1/2 decks are aggro/midrange goodstuff decks. The format is so fast and the only value cards getting printed are Green/Black at such a pace whole archetypes are killed off all together, add to the mix Wizards abysmal management and the end result isn't eldrazi winter but it's not what I would call "good".

>>52926080

The GB/x decks in Modern are fine. Modern as a format is for the most part a format that is really slow to adjust and you're slowly seeing a rise of old archetypes and decks like U/W control, Faeries. Even with the abundance of GB/x Death's Shadow decks they're just 1 for 1 decks that are comparitively threat light and are drawing 1 card at a time with a compar slow clock for the most part. It beats up or has some slight edges against a vast majority of the T1 decks but it's never really unbeatable. In fact the regular Death's Shadow Jund's worst matchups are sporadic Tier 2 decks like Elves which is amusing because regular Jund was one of Elves tougher matchups. Pretty much any deck that goes super wide and has easily replaceable dudes tends to be pretty good against those type of decks so shit like Dredge, Elves go quite well. Fuck if your meta was literally 100% Death's Shadow GB/x decks you could bring in 8wack/Bushwacker Zoo and you'd have a great chance against the field.

Modern is a format where the metagame generally revolves around the type of removal being played be it board removal or hand removal. Because of the GB/x death's shadow decks people have started moving away from playing Lightning Bolt(What!?!?) in the format and less damage based sweepers like Pyroclasm/Anger. Scapeshift decks are alright against the GB/x decks as well.