Legacy General

TEACH ME ABOUT ALUREN SENPAI

>>52819980
It's similar to Shardless BUG, but with a combo finish using a Cavern Harpy Parasitic Strix loop. It also generates value with Strix and Shardless.

I'm thiking about moving on from UB reanimator. It's just been getting hosed nonstop in my meta because fuck d&t, and lands, and miracles, and bug midrange, why is that the only shit people play?

Anyway, I've got a bug mana base and a set of forces/brainstorms, what can I build into? And I don't mind buying one or two more duals to change to a different color combo

>>52820743
Cascade balance

>>52820851
Is that even a real deck? Does it beat any of the decks I've mentioned?

>>52820743
There's a handful of offbeat bug combo decks, Misthollow Food Chain and Aluren. I think there was a guy a while ago playing bug nic fit, that seems pretty sweet with Glen Elendra Archmage and such.

>>52820941
In the most strict sense of reality, yes it's a real deck

>>52820967
That's not very reassuring

>building UB 12post for the next Legacy tournament on Monday
>Know there is one guy who plays Charbelcher who consistently turn-ones

What do I put in my sideboard, /tg/? Because I get the feeling four Force of WIll ain't gonna be enough. I also have one Mindbreak Trap and some Disrupts. Is there anything meatier/spicier I should be looking at to side in against this deck?

>>52821279

Sorry, I meant UG 12post.

>>52821279
Stifle can hit the Storm trigger of Empty and the Belcher Activation.

>>52821447

Oh, I didn't realize it could hit Empty the Warren's storm before it made all the copies, but that makes a ton of sense. I don't have any on hand but I'll keep it in mind to pick up.

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Are there any decks that have featured this guy? Considering the cost and just how many shapeshifters and clone/copy cards there are between green and blue... not to mention fetch cards. Just think, Progenitor Mimic, Hypergenesis...

>>52822118
And toss some Spawnwrithes and True Name Nemesis in for good measure.

>>52822118
I guess it's kinda weak: it's pretty slow as you need this guy to be on the battlefield before anything happens, and then if someone removes it from the battlefield when you're trying to copy it you're kinda screwed.
Plus there is a lot of ways to specifically prevent you from playing it (surgical extraction, meddling mage, cabal therapy) that makes it quite hard to win for any deck relying on one specific card

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Is landstill well positioned in the meta now? I've always wanted to play a control deck that isn't miracles.

Is it time to rev up those Harsh Mentors to fight the menace that is Sensei's Divining Top in Miracles?

>>52823839
As a miracles player I'm not even mad
It's good but not unbeatable

ban terminus

>>52823921
ban shitters who overextend

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>>52822795
>I've always wanted to play a control deck that isn't miracles.
You could try this shitbrew I made.

>>52824005
you seem to be confused how this game works

>>52822795
Just play miracles. It's better than any other control deck

>>52824235
You seem to be a person who plays drops his hand into "tundra, pass"

>>52820743
just play the better death n taxes: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bloodbears-2/

>>52824512
the point is this is exactly why that shit should be banned

>>52822795
Tezz is an option. You get to have Force and Chalice and can play prison, control of aggro depending on your opener. Some games I can t1 Trini/Chalice or assemble Crucible Wasteland, other times beat with Strixes or slam a t2 Tezz and start beating with 5/5's that turn.

I noticed Zombardment managed to nab a recent top 8 finish piloted by Michael Schwab, but I don't think we've ever discussed the deck. What are it's good matchups? What does it struggle with? Has anyone here played with it or against it? Does it mean anything about other Goblin Bombardment decks like Fruity Pebbles?

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15135&d=291710&f=LE

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>>52822795
Merry christmas, a non miracles control deck from a mildyl drunken anon. You will want to cut red its been shit so far.

PS, time for a puzzle.

You open with [Black source] and cabal therapy on the play. Game one, turn one. What do you name?
>Easy
Red sleeves.
>Medium
He picks up his hand, motioning to wait before you name something.
>Hard
She kept a hand without looking.
>Very Hard
They mulled to 3 game one, scooped, sideboarded and now its game two.
>Dante must die
No sleeves, no playmat, eating cheetos with their bear hands.

>>52824682
I'm glad aggro shitters ain't free to vomit their crap free.

>>52825133
Tezz is so much fucking fun to play.

>>52826350
>Red Sleeves.
Burn is too easy and I wanna be contrarian, so I'm gonna put them on goblins and name Lackey.

>He picks up his hand, motioning to wait before you name something.
It's a Force deck with something important to protect, since they had you pause I would name Force, but I would put them on Sneak and Show or Omnitell.

>She kept a hand without looking.
It's probably Dredge, not sure what to Therapy from them though.

>They mulled to 3 game one, scooped, sideboarded and now its game two.
Leylines, they couldn't find a Sanctum or Serum Powder and didn't want to give away their deck.

>No sleeves, no playmat, eating cheetos with their bear hands.
This blatant disregard can only come from Belcher or Oops. Since Oops has Balustrade Spy and Undercity and I don't know which they have in hand I think the safe bet is Belcher.
>Bear hands

>>52826350
>red sleeves
Force of will
>picks up hand
Force of will
>no look
Gitaxian probe
>mull and board
Glimpse of nature
>bear hands
Aether vial. It's bear tribal.

>>52824543
Wait does this work?

Are there decks that aren't belcher running elvish spirit guide?

>>52827680
BG Depths does.

>>52827717
I've never been a fan of mariat but i might give her a go.

Bum p

>>52822795

>Is landstill well positioned in the meta now? I've always wanted to play a control deck that isn't miracles.

Every aggro deck in Legacy is a control deck, too. Delvers, Berserk Poison, Eldrazi, D&T, etc.

>>52823921

Ban Counterbalance. Alternatively, ban nothing and print good cards that stop Miracles.

>>52824512
>>52824005

Miracles is good against decks that overextend. Miracles is good against decks that don't. Miracles is bad against bad decks (including ones I play). Your argument is invalid.

>>52826350
—Force of Will. Sleeve-color indicates nothing, and I play combo.
—Force of Will. Why would you pick anything else? Maybe Deathrite Shaman, but...
—Gitaxian Probe. Manaless Dredge.
—Either Glimpse of Nature or Opalescence. All Spells wouldn't mull to three.
—Island. Because at this point, we might as well be patronizing.

>>52831378
Miracles has a real bad game against death and taxes, and basically an auto loss to eldrazi and mud.
The only decks it's actually good against are combo decks like elves and storm. Everything else is 50/50 with good pilots on both sides.

>all this salt wanting to ban counterbalance
>Not banning the card that put miracles over the top, monastery mentor

>>52832081

It's also really bad against 12post.

>>52826350
I know it's not legacy, but it's still eternal, convince me to put a top into my Jund Australian highlander Nic Fit Pod deck.

>>52833691
>Check top 3 cards
>Make frivilous pod sac to shuffle them away
>See top three again
Top is just a good card. Its great if you have a wealth of shuffle effects as it turns those shuffles into ponders.

>>52820743
I know how you feel, although I keep putting up decent results with reanimator, it feels like I have to work a lot harder for my wins.

I finished building Maverick to switch things up a bit. It felt inefficient that I didn't get to use most of the stuff from my Reanimator list, but it ended up cheaper than finishing most decks with more overlap (blue duals are still expensive, same goes for cards that are good with said duals).

Still feels weird playing without Brainstorm (or Force for that matter), but I'm having tons of fun with it.

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Livin' life in the slow lane.

>>52826350
Bout time I found one of your posts. 10/10 effort, loses to rb reanimator

>>52826350
Can you please post the list? My shitty eyes are seeing between 60-62 cards, and I want to be sure.

>>52826439
hope they ban your shit on monday faggot

>>52833526
Miracles dominated for years before the mentor

>>52833631
That's mud, friend

>>52834855
My shit? I play dredge.

>>52835287
that's funny because that makes you also an aggro shitter

>>52822795

Landstill is in a good place right now but you'll be a few percentage points behind Miracles because you have fewer matchups that are free wins.

The really tough choice is between Jeskai and BUG; both have good reasons and have put up tournament results from time to time. I'm currently rolling BUG but there are times I'd really like to be able to side in Pyroblast

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>>52834246
> Cards you can't get in old frame
Fair enough
> 5DN Crucible
Well, the judge promo is expensive. I'll let it slide
> Modern Factories
Inexcusable.

>>52835316
Aggro? I see.

We are probably viewing this game completely differently.

>>52836976
how is dredge not an aggro/combo deck?
not to mention terminus is hollow burialing your creatures, not just filling your yard

>>52836915
>Inexcusable

pretty sure nearly 200 dollarydoos is excusable.

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>>52837637
You can get 4th edition ones. The white borders can be overlooked for that sweet Foglio goodness

>>52838635

The foglio art makes no sense though, why did Mishra build his factory in a fuckin giant tree?

>>52839021
To conscript the Keebler elves. Don't you know the lore?

>>52838635
i've actually got a set of 4th ed ones, but the main reason i'm using the other ones is the Black Border.

>>52836699
judging from mtgtop8 there was only one memestill list in the past 2 months? or am i looking at the metagame breakdown wrong
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15268&d=292778&f=LE

>>52840027

Yeah, it seems to be slightly less popular right now, maybe because of Leovold. Also that list you linked is retarded; 6th place in a 22-person tournament is attainable by just about any deck.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/legacy-wur-34844#online is more representative of the kind of deck that can succeed right now, although personally I would drop the faeries for more countermagic and a Jace or two.

One of the nice things about the deck is that it fares very well against Miracles if you can keep Mentor off the battlefield.

>>52839248
Just take a sharpie to that bitch

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>>52839248
> not releasing your inner weeb

>>52838635
>Foglio goodness
Foglio is garbage

>>52843501
Who do you hate more, kaja foglio or phil foglio?

>>52844161
Not him, and I'm not a huge Foglio fan but i like Kaja's better.
Coffin Queen
Pyroblast
StP
Primal Clay

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>>52837637
>>52838635
>>52839248
>>52841985
>>52842210
> mfw I bought the full ATQ set for like $80

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>>52837637
>>52839248
If you're ok with foreign languages, you can have NM german factories for 2 bucks apiece

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How would the format be different if gush was unbanned?

>>52820743
How are No Force of Will or Daze or free spells to pitch to Annex to put 1-mana answer online: The Deck tough matchups? Nigga just animate a Griselbrand draw 14 animate Archetype.

>>52820743
>>52853276
Disregard, didn't read you're playing strictly inferior UB.

>>52824005
Vs Miracles dropping any more than 1 beatstick at a time is overextending, yet no one can beat their lategame, don't you see a problem here?

>>52832081
>and basically an auto loss to eldrazi and mud
>what is fow your chalice, plow your tks, terminus and entreat for bazillion
Nigga, just stop pretending.

>>52851602
Miracles would be tier -1 instead of 0.

>>52851602
Repeat after me:
"Fuck me, gush is broken"

>>52853301
>>52853314
You sound like you've never played the format.

>>52854233
What a profound retort.

>plow tks
>Play TKS, ETB trigger. Huh, I see swords, brainstorm, counterbalance, and some lands. Oh no, big bad miracles! Counterbalance is broken, take counterbalance!

Here's your (You), faggot

>>52855411
but you didn't link how will he get his (You) you liar

>>52851602
Would gush really be that good? Decks that play daze would also want to play gush. It'll put them too far behind on tempo to be picking up all those lands. Plus with fastbond still banned you wouldn't be able to combo.

Made a ayy lmao deck that only beats miracle and won a small local tourney where 2/3 of the players were miracles. Luckily only matched up with them.

>>52857156
Decks like delver would welcome gust dick hard ready for action.

cya after the terminus ban

>>52860379
If anything I'd like to see a DRS ban.

>>52858383
List?

A friend of mine pulled Invocation Force of Will at the pre-release today. Should he sell it now, or will it increase in value?

>>52860971
Sell it if he can, it's so fucking ugly.

>>52860797
I think if you ban drs you also need to ban terminus. One or the other just feels like the untouched archetype will be too powerful.

>>52860797
kys

>>52861007
Generic BUG Deck #2138 player detected

>>52860971

Now.

>>52833781

Are you on still on U/B? I've been on U/B and I'm considering trying monoblack/BR.

>>52832081

Eldrazi and MUD are ok against Miracles until the postboard matchup. Then, they do much, much worse. And Miracles isn't only good against combo. It's good against aggro-control, too.

>>52861000
I would be fine with that. I don't particularly think Miracles needs a ban but you're right that the untouched one would be too strong. It's practically criminal what DRS does for being a BG hybrid 1 drop with 2 toughness.

>>52861007
No need for rudeness.

Fuck me raw, look at these old Standard decks:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-online/flashback-standard-gauntlets-mirage-tempest

All these decks look amazingly fun, and powerful. Pros-Bloom in particular seems like a fun combo, it's too bad I don't see it working in Legacy. What the fuck happened to Magic?

>>52861056
>miracles is good against combo

I hate this meme. Ant is probably even, its very skill-dependent and favors the player with more experience in the matchup as well as sideboard configurations. I would say sneak and show is favored against miracles, as is reanimator. I haven't played the matchup that much but I feel aluren is favored as well. Miracles kills way too slowly to actually have great combo matchups because the combo player can just sit back and sculpt the perfect hand. It is of course good against creature-based combo like elves though because terminus is busted

>>52861075
wizards started catering to the players that buy the most packs: casuals/little timmy who shows up to fnm with his mono-green deck that plays a craw wurm on turn 6. Unfortunately he lost every game because the aggro and combo decks killed him too fast, control countered his shitty threats then killed him over the course of 15 turns, and midrange locked him out with tradewind riders or whatever the dominant goodstuff card was at the time.

>>52861162

But Timmy you can play that craw wurm on turn THREE with Godzilla doesn't that sound rad as hell?

>>52861124
>The combo player can sit back and sculpt the perfect hand
>While miracles assembly countertop and draw counters
Wewew lad

>>52819591
I need the most braindead, powerful, saltiest, fast deck. One that I don't need to think to win on t1-2

>>52862153
Big Red famalam. You can turn 1/2 kill people or lock them out of the game with chalice/blood moon/trinisphere. you would not believe the amount of salt that deck causes.

>>52862275
That's the one with breach?

>>52862302
yep, it runs sneak attach and through the breach as its enablers and lock pieces to keep people form casting things or baiting counters.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15222&d=292394&f=LE

>>52861075
That Oath of Druids deck looks like my jam, man.
>Durdlng infinitely with Scroll Rack, Mulch, and Gaea's Blessing
>Gaining stupid amounts of life with Gerrard's Wisdom
>Cheating out huge Archangels

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>>52862459
Wizards just doesn't make sets like they used to. I miss standard/T2 having dark ritual, counterspell, and lightning bolt in it. Those were the days when T2 was actually legitimately fun to play, not the hot memerange mess that standard has been since RTR rotated out.

My card shop is starting full proxy legacy tournaments. I've always been a little interested in older formats, but I'm a poor fuck so I thought this might be a good opportunity.
I looked over the decks in the OP but a lot of them seem to rely on having a ton of knowledge of the meta. Are there any decks that would be good for someone just trying to figure shit out?

>>52863352
Delver is kind of forgiving on player mistakes. Just slam delver on board turn 1 and counter everything that seems lethal.

>>52863352
You need a deck that gives free wins but has game against lots of stuff. Sneak and Show motherfucker. Or the mono red version, sneak and breach. Depends on whether you like force of will or chalice of the void better, whether you like to mulligan or cantrip to sculpt your hand.

>>52861124

Miracles either does what >>52862124 said, or it just plays Monastery Mentor and kills you.

>>52863352

Delver is a good place to start, but it's also a deck that excels only if its pilot either knows the game well or knows the opponent well. Berserk Poison is like an easier-to-play Delver deck.

If you're good at playing Magic in ways it certainly wasn't intended to work, Dredge is pretty easy to learn. There are other easy decks, too, but a lot of them stand or fall beause of the metagame (Charbelcher and All Spells are good examples).

Death and Taxes also isn't too hard to figure out, though it's a deck that often either gets pwned or locks someone out of the game right away. Maverick plays similarly but is probably a bit easier to use because GSZ is a good card.

You might try a pure value deck like Shardless or Eldrazi. You could also try a Show and Tell deck like DDFT suggested, but you've got to know a bit about the format to keep from slamming S&T against, say, a Charbelcher player with a Diamond on the board.

There are lots of options. What do you like to do when you're playing Magic? Do you like to do crazy things, stop your opponent from doing crazy things, or just play a better version of Modern? (No criticism intended in that last option.)

>>52862153

All Spells. It is truly the Waco Kid.

>>52862124
sculpting the perfect hand means decays or counters/disruption of your own. Do you honestly think every combo deck scoops to force of will? Do you disagree with me on whether or not those decks are favored? Because what I said is the consensus of most players. Obviously miracles is never massively unfavored in those mathcups, but I would give the edge to the combo decks I mentioned most of the time.

>>52863997
Dredge might be good place to start, but it's also probably one of the harder decks to sideboard and play postboard.

Death and taxes might be the better choice over delver. You are proactively countering opponent decks instead of being reactive and thus adding a layer of fucking up.

Super combos might not be the place to play as new player, if you just want to see the format. You either get to see yourself winning turn 1 or losing to opponent FoW. Might not give the proper image.

But in the end, it would be nice to know what exactly the og poster likes.

>>52863997
>eldrazi
>value

I also don't think death and taxes is a good starting deck, it rewards having a lot of knowledge of other decks in the format and experience playing against those decks. While it might seem like "jam white weenies and either win or lose" there is a lot more play to it.

>>52864072
Miracles is the one in pressure, but it's pretty hard push for storm if countertop is on table. Better have those decays ready.

>>52864126
Implying it's not >"jam white weenies and either win or lose"
Tho I agree it has a lot of layers on how to play it and it rewards a lot of figuring specific playlines out.

>>52864155
Also just realized dredge and other cabal therapy decks are seriously no go for new player. Unless they already figured out a lot of matchups for the respective deck.

>>52864129
I agree, if miracles jams turn 1 top turn 2 cb it is pretty hard to win, but I have never felt helpless in the matchup, especially after board if you go for a multiple tendrils/grinding station plan.

>>52863467
>>52863521
Thanks guys. Both decks look pretty fun.

>>52863997
>>52864094
I wouldn't say I'm very good at abusing mechanics if thats what you meant by the dredge section.
I would say I like either retarded combos (I liked storm decks when I used to dick around on magic workstation as a kid. Also really liked elvish piper, but show and tell seems like a more cracked out version of that anyway so that works out) or stuff that locks the opponent down.
I definitely don't mind playing more simple decks to learn the meta though considering I'm not investing any money into it.

A question on playing Infect - please note that I am very new to the format and have only recently gotten my deck together using Chinaman duals.

I am on the play and my hand looks something like this:
>Glistener elf
>Noble Hierarch
>Invigorate
>BI or Berserk
>Brainstorm
>Land
>Land

I have no idea what I am playing against. In this situation, is it safer to:
>Hierarch, go
>Play a land and try to brainstorm at the opponent's end step
>Throw caution to the wind and play Glistener representing a turn 2 kill

>>52864195
Seems like a kinda risky hand, you have no interaction so fast combo just runs you over and creature decks will ruin your plans with countermagic/removal unless brainstorm finds you some action. You also didn't specify if the lands were duals, basics, or fetches. If you don't have any fetches that hand gets substantially worse. I'd be very tempted to just mulligan it.

>>52864195
>>52864444
I have never played infect, but I would never mulligan that hand. Since you are on the play I would jam elf on turn 1 and make them have it. That is one of the strengths of infect imo. If you're opponent is representing blue or removal you could always not go for it and take it slow. The only fast combo you lose to is turn 1 decks, and those are pretty uncommon so I wouldn't put my opponent on that if he's an unknown.

Also almost never eot brainstorm. There are a few scenarios where it's ok, but the strength of the card is to get rid of bad cards with fetchlands, and your hand has all good cards

>>52864010
Dies to FoW so is shit

>>52822795
Just play stoneblade if you don't want to play miracles.

>>52820743
Bant stoneblade/deathblade

As dredge player, am I supposed to side in abrupt decay against miracles? I figure I want complete combo package against it, but what the proper siding?

was thinking along lines, +Lotus petals +Abrupt decay / -Putrid imps -1 of's from careful study, thug etc.

Also, in kind of ideal opening hand like:
>Stinkweed imp
>LED
>Breakthrough
>Faithful looting
>Cabal therapy
>Abrupt decay
>Mana confluence

Should I go in with combo turn 1 or play cabal therapy to check if the coast is clear; but then again, what to name in it?

>>52865003
are dredge lists actually playnig abrupt decay now? I was under the assumption that you wanted all of your interaction to be at most 1 mana, thats why nature's claim is so good. Even in your ideal opener, how are you ever casing decay if you go off turn 1 or 2? You don't really care about counterbalance because you generally aren't casting many spells past the first few turns (or if you are dread returning the only 4 miracles has is jace i believe).

Against blue decks I would lead with therapy and just name force. You really want your breakthrough to resolve with that hand, and force is the most likely answer they will have.

Wait, we have a bomberman legacy deck now?

Lands:
2 Tundra
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Plains

Creatures:
2 Trinket Mage
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Walking Ballista

Artifacts:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lodestone Bauble
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Urza's Bauble

Instant / Sorcery:
4 Gitaxian Probe


SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Serenity
SB: 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 Disenchant

>>52865162
I don't know general consensus, but I do play 4 abrupt decay's in sideboard, because when I really need to get rid of RiP or other pesky things, I want it gone for good and not get dazed.

I agree with you with wanting to be at 1 mana with spells, but on the other hand hitting second mana source is easier than cabal therapy or another nature's claim from draw, especially because I'm playing 4 lotus petals on sideboard. I suppose you are right about not caring about counterbalance, although that's imo even bigger reason why hitting RiP through it is so important. But countertop active with RiP on board is probably gg already.

But yeah, personally would lead with cabal therapy, although if being at draw the risk of getting into turn 2 countertopped is quite high, so personally might say counterbalance and go with faithless looting into hopefully breakthrough or looting -> LED looting.

>>52865410
I don't really get it.

>>52866223
Auriok Salvagers + Lion's Eye Diamond makes infinite mana, at the end you use salvagers to return Walking Ballista and then kill them.

>>52866239
Oh right, I forgot that you can use LED for that combo instead of lotus. Neat, I'll try it out later.

>>52864627
Play 3-4 Cabal Therapy + 4 Pact of Negation.

>tfw on tin fins vs sneak and show
>tfw i win three games in a row because he either let me Show in griselbrand or only showed an emrakul and let me combo him on my turn
really funny matchup desu, especailly when the guy isn't familiar with this deck

>>52861075
I played it once, got suicide black. I went in thinking it looked rather boring and wishing I had reanimator or something but holy shit it was fun
>t1 swamp, Sangromancy
>t2 CoT, DR, Hatred for 18, win
Would it be possible to do this in legacy without playing infect?

Ban list announcement coming soon. Let's get some predictions.

Mine: no changes to any format.
if they ban top I'm going postal

What's the greediest deck? RB reanimator?

>>52869821
They'll ban everything I love and unban gush.

>>52869821
Ban mentor, ban ancestral visions, ban gurmag angler
Unban earthcraft

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/april-24-2017-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2017-04-24

>Top is banned

>>52870922
Rip miracles

>>52869821
U Mad?

>>52870922
Well I'm btfo'd. BRB going postal

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>>52870922
>Top is banned

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Anyone else waiting for some autistic splurge from a Miracles player about how Mtg is RUINED FOREVER

>>52870922
I am legit mad.

"Sensei's Divining Top comes with its own host of issues that center around the timely conclusion of matches in a tournament setting. The necessity of repeated Top activations to play the card slows down match play and leads to tournament delays"

Jeesus fuck lets just go and ban anything that causes shuffling or thinking.

>>52871155
I am mad because miracles should have been nerfed with counterbalance ban.

Banning top and reasoning "slowdown" is fucking insane with everything else in the format.

Lets just give gamelosses if you take more than 10 seconds for each action.
And ban brainstorm.

>>52870922
FUCKING LOL

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Press f to pay respects. Press s to spit on grave.

I forsaw this and built nic fit in advance but I was still hoping it wouldnt happen.

>>52871155
>>52871162
Within 15 seconds, nice.

>>52871155
>Dec 29, 2016
>I would be very unhappy if Top got banned to nerf Miracles.
How is he going to react?

>>52871162
The whole "top takes too long" argument is retarded because if you banned anything to kill miracles, then there would be drastically fewer top activations in legacy. You'd achieve that goal anyway.

>>52869821
Don't go to your mtg shop tomorrow desu some of you are all right

>>52871259
Fuck you magic is not ruined and miracles was cancer.
The cancerous part was counterbalance and terminus.

I played nic fit that had top in list and I fucking loved the thing.

They should have probably banned something else to kill miracles (counterbalance or one of the actual miracles). I guess it's easier for PR to find a reason to ban top that isn't just "fuck miracles".

How do I contact Aaron Foreskin in a medium where I am permitted more than 140 characters? Frothing in rage and having difficulty googling. Need someone to do it for me.

Brother in law is Miracles enthusiast. You know, the kind of guy who is making a science out of the deck.
Back when I was playing Legacy I actually had a good MU against him.
I even advocated a Terminus ban over Top.

But still I feel joy and am happy all his stupid arguments are now gone with the wind. No more "B-but it does not win all the tournaments!" "I resolve Top so fast!" or "B-but it is fair and rewards good players!". If anything, the smugness of MIracles players thinking they solved the game and we ought to be happy they grace us with their presence and skill is a good thing to be gone.

WotC the absolute madman.

Now let's see the format drown in BUG shit and Insect Man.

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HOLY SHIT SOME MIRACLES PLAYER FROM MY SHOP WHO FOILED OUT HIS DECK LITERALLY JUST BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF HIS GIRLFRIEND AND IS GOING TO JAIL HOLY FUCK LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>52871407
I don't see how the format doesn't devolve into an utter shitshow because of this. I legit don't know what to do. I'll probably play TES until I either brew up a functional doomsday deck or I quit magic.

>>52871438
>things that didn't happen

>>52871255
I got it when it was just a standstill deck. I remember when I rebuit it to combo-copia. It was my first real deck. I sold stompy and pox to bring it up to legacy miracles. I think I am going to keep the tops and balances somehwere. Just to remember all the shit I did with them

>>52871481
I could show you the text convo I had with his roommate but I doubt you'd care, desu I'd be pretty upset too, fuck foiled miracles is a shit load of money, I imagine it went something like "Chill the fuck out John it's just a fucking stupid kids game" and you can take it from there

I welcome our new Grixis delver overlords.

>>52871515
I would. Mainly to save as miracleschimpout.jpg

>>52871386
The best thing is to change the fucking rulings on being able to cast a miracle trigger on instant speed

>>52871629
You couldn't cast it during your draw step if it wasn't at instant speed...

>>52871515
Post convo. Ask roommate to make pictures.

Tell roommate to convice other guy to do something stupid with the deck.

Come on, give us something.

>>52870922
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
-deep breath-
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


The worst part is that Mind Twist is STILL banned

>>52871648
Good. And it's the first spell you cast so you can hold onto the miracle card until your main phase anyways. But end step terminus was bullshit

>>52870922
Holy shit. I've been waiting for a ban that weakened Miracles for a long ass time, but I never wanted the deck to be castrated.

>just bought into stoneblade
>only friend that plays legacy is quitting magic entirely
>because they banned miracles

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

boy I'm glad I never got around to trying tops over librarys

>>52871515
post it, I'm depressed and I need to laugh at someone else's misfortune

Could Bant Miracles with Sylvan Library be a thing?

>>52871839
Doubt it. The power of top was manipulating your library any time, at will.

>>52871839
I think Scroll Rack might be a better alternative if the deck even survives. Mirri's Guile is also decent.

This is probably the best decision Wotc has done in the last 3 years. Miracles is a dumb deck.

Soooo 12 post got a lot less good with top gone. Any options for me? Should.i just sell out of the deck?

Well, at least I'm gonna be able to pick up some tops for pennies for my EDH decks.

C U C K E D

Buy Chinaman! Bans don't hurt as bad when you spent $20 on the whole deck!

Is Vintage saved?

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>format balancing requires the gentle graze of an artisan's chisel
>wotc rams into it with a firetruck then pats themselves on the back

Bravo!

>>52871804
Thats what you get for playing a dying format

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We delver now

>>52872083
I think maverick is going to come back and dominate now. Miracles was the decks holding it back.

What happens to DDFT with Top banned?
Why couldn't they have banned something from Miracles with less collateral damage?

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>>52871627
>>52871650
Honestly feel bad now apparently she's really fucked up

What's the new top deck? Elves?

>>52872151
>Why couldn't they have banned something from Miracles with less collateral damage?
Only a tiny, tiny number of people play decks like DDFT and Mighty Quinn that used Top but weren't Miracles.

>>52872158
The deck that takes the most skill to play now that Miracles is gone, of course.
Burn

>>52872157
>air lifted
well fuck.
And you're sure this is due to the top ban?

DDFT dead.
Good storm decks don't care.
Painter and Nic Fit weaker.
Standstill almost playable.
BUG will dominate the format.
There are my predictions.

>>52872157
I don't know whether I should laugh or cry.

>>52871786
You need to reread the rules.

In __________, you can play control.

>>52872179
Well, I know the guy, he had a foiled out miracles deck, and his girlfriend was always telling him and bothering him to stop playing. And then suddenly on the morning top is banned he loses his shit? I give it like an 80% chance that this set him off, maybe not entirely but I guarantee it was a factor

>>52872015
>Shops is too strong! Let's restrict it's main beater
>Now mentor is too strong! Let's restrict it's definitive card engine

Even vintage feels the caress of artificial diversity, courtesy of wizards design. Not long until a power 9 ban for decreasing build diversity and a merge with modern and legacy called "Eternal."

>>52871447
Good

>>52872202
Tron in modern desu

>>52872157
Is this the start of the beta uprising?

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>>52872157
I'm fully erect

>>52872140
Post a list

>>52872177
Fuck yes

So I have a good portion of Maverick built and I'd only need the duals, Sfm and GSZ to finish it off. Is it worth building now that Miracles got axed or will it still be ded?

>>52872157
>What're you in for?
>Killed my woman
>Catch her with another man?
>No, they banned top in legacy
>Ice cold nigga damn

>>52870922

Woof. I just sleeved up 12post for my legacy tournament tonight, too. I think the biggest problem is that this flies in the face of "your legacy investment is safe" that made the format more attractive than modern.

>>52872294
Legacy is dead, anon. Noone plays it now that Miracles is gone.

>>52872294
Buy the duals from the Chinaman, SFM and GSZ can't be too hard to pick up.

>>52872151
I'm not sure what happens to DDFT. I have a few ideas but the deck won't exist in its current form.

>>52872175
I think more deck than you realize played top. Ddft, pox, nic fit, painter, some burn lists, quinn, some 12post lists, sometimes high tide, basically a ton of fringe/monocolored decks lost a powerful consistency tool. Obviously this does what they wanted re: miracles, but banning CB or terminus would have too, and those cards are literally only played in Miracles.

>>52872294
Are you playing Renegade Rallier?

>>52872313

On the other hand, I guess I can dust off my Pox deck. Delver was easy prey for it, the deck folded hard to miracles though as most of its key spells were 2 cmc

>Ok guys, there is a strong deck in legacy
>thats fine, the format is meant to have decks that are strong and for others to build stuff to beat then
>no you dont understand it uses top
>It shouldnt matter. We just printed a top hoser for burn
>IT USES TOP AND SLOWS DOWN THE GAME
>but what about banning another spell, banning Terminus seems like it wouldnt kill the deck
>REEEEEEEEEEEE BAN TOP REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>pfft nothing personal kid
>teleports behind you, bans top and kills control in one slice

>>52872199
Nope I've asked a judge before and he said the miracle player can hold the card until the end just as long as it was the first card drew.

>>52872384
How was harsh mentor better than reveler in any way?

>>52872157
Someone needs to make a compilation pic of this.

>>52872337
I mean I might try him out for spice but I was thinking more of a standard build for now

>>52872321
>fake duals
It's only ~600 man its not that much and I don't want to support the chinamen.

>>52872328
Top was played in those decks because top is an amazing card. The other decks can adjust, miracle is dead.

>>52872449
>don't want to support the Chinaman
Your prerogative, but you'd really rather support the inflationary secondary market?

>>52872428
>You may cast this card for its Miracle cost WHEN you draw it

>>52872483
That secondary market cushioned the blow. My tops will lose $5 each considering its still required in edh. My fetches, duals, forces, jtms etc are still right where they were yesterday.

Thinking of switching to bug delver now. Or shardless. Something bug.

>>52872483
I'd rather support the game than some took making low quality fakes. Plus I only need 2 Bayou, 2 Savvanah and a Scrubland from the looks of it and that's not a ton of money relatively on cardboard but maybe that's just how far I've gone.

>>52872521
It's still an uncommon, and EDH is a singleton format. Expect top to dip to 3 bucks in the next few weeks, lower if you have access to glorious MCM.

>>52872428
Your judge is retarded.

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holy fucking shit

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Lol. This fucking company...

>>52872473
Painter is pretty much dead now, kouhai.

>>52872314
can't get enough of your tears

>>52872384
I hate WotC so fucking much.

>>52872614
Imagine having just bought a playset

>>52872565
Its a rare now :^) a rare that had a massive price inflation from popularity in commander. I imagine the time would be right to sell around the next precon release, but the set in my miracles deck is going in a case with the CB.

>>52872624
He is right, though. This is probably the final nail in the coffin for the format. They've given the middle finger to too many players this time.

>>52872157

Keep us updated anon

>>52872587
My judge is retarded. And that costed my loss. Fucking judge. Glad miracle is still dead.

>>52872644
Starcity issued a complete refund if you preordered any. Pretty nice of them desu

>>52872713
Wow, guess I can't call them star of david games for a while now

>>52872763
Channelfireball does something similar too. That standard banning in january tore up a ton of players.

>>52872663
good ridance

>>52872313
After about a year on shitty college low income I managed to finish my 12post like 3 months ago. I feel the feels anon

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poor miracle players how could they do this

I'm disappointed but I shouldn't be surprised. At least it has no effect on me.

>>52872449
>it's only 600
What the fuck do you neets DO to say this. don't you have responsibilities? I have a car payment, food, rent, insurance, student loans, etc. how the hell can you say it's (((only))) 600 for fucking cardboard

>>52871447
>doomsday
>Without top to draw into your pile.

Sad days famalam

>Just buy into Legacy bro! Your money is safe and nothing gets banned or rotates lmao!!!

>tfw was going to make DDFT because it looked fun but now I'll just have to play ANT and Dredge
th-thanks Wizards

Fuck this I'm going to EDH.

20x comfier there and much more creative than investing in a strict meta.

>>52872884
Well I for one have a job. Usually Ill build up store credit, doing well at drafts sometimes theres a windfall like quarterly cashback or work buying my excess PTO. Mostly I just have a monthly budget slice labeled "fun" and whatevers leftover ends up in magic staples.

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I've been waiting for this, please don't stop whining

>>52871447
You actually thought that Miracles was the glue keeping it together? Fuck no. Miracles was the cancer.

It was so fucking cancerous that ZERO aggro decks could be played. It's now a combo shitshow with decks like RB reanimator hoping to come down a turn BEFORE the miracle lock.

The CMC rule changed helped a bit, but it still completely wrecked all creature based decks.

>>52844161
Phil. Kaja is almost a competent illustrator who you can at least tell is a creative person even if their pieces are sometimes a little naive.

Phil is clearly autistic and should have never been given a writing utensil, let alone a brush and paint.

>>52872157
Where were you when Wizards killed Top and an innocent young woman?

>>52872829
12 post isn't completely reliant on SDT. You're going to have to use Sylvan Library or Mire's Guile instead now.

>>52872449
>don't want to support the chinamen.
Why? Because their fakes are damaging the secondary market value of your investment?

Because, as evidenced by the last year or so of bannings, that isn't exactly the futureproof investment we thought it was.
Of Modern's top tier decks two years ago, only three of seven exist now. That's over half of decks that got banned out.
In vintage, they neutered the top deck, and then the one that rose to fill it's spot.
Even in standard, their Golden boy, two separate decks were banned in one go. In a format where there were basically three decks total.

Your investment isn't safe, friend. Chinamen is the truest expression of love for the format, the game, but not the policies that ruin both.

>>52872644
>Imagine having just bought a playset

If you bought Invocation Counterbalances you deserved much worse than Top being banned and your shitty cards losing value

>>52872899
>Just buy into Legacy bro! Your money is safe and nothing gets banned or rotates lmao!!!

This is exactly why a lot of people (including myself) stayed out of Ban discussions because I think that anything WotC does regarding bans is worse than just leaving the format as it is

>>52872964
You're drooling again.

>>52872917
Anon...
Have you...
...
...Good luck, friend.

>>52872899
No lie, this banning has shaken my faith in the format. I don't even play top in my deck, but a lot of people at my lgs do. And a lot of people played miracles. This is like a Modern-style ban decision.

>>52872312
>No, they banned top in legacy
>FUCK'S SAKE NIGGA REALLY!? You know how many cigs I had to give up to finish up my Miracles deck? God fucking DAMMIT.

>>52873002
B-but muh trinket mages.. I suppose I can still run them to fetch ballista, map, cage, explosives, and needles.

>>52872964
Good. Braindead aggro players can go play Modern where they are 80% of the meta.

>>52872964
>RB reanimator hoping to come down a turn BEFORE the miracle lock

RB reanimator hopes to go off on turn 0/1, not turn 3

...well, fuck.

So what do I put in its place in ANT? Second preordain? Second PiF? Miser's one-of burning wish?

>>52873126
miracle lock is turn 2.

>>52873162
Top is 1
Counterbalance is 2
The lock isn't until 3 when they have mana to activate top in response

And that's assuming they have a perfect hand

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>>52870922

>>52873143
Nigger, it wasn't 8 months ago that ANT didn't even run top

>>52872884
I'm not a fucking neet you poorfag, I happen to have a nice paying job and no (((student loans))) because I studied my ass off. It fits in my hobby budget so why shouldn't I get the real deal? Not like duals are ever going down either. Sorry you can't afford the format right now due to your situation but that's no need to get so assblasted over someone wanting to support their hobby.

Christ if you think occasionally spending 600 on this hobby is bad you should see how much I get raped with guitar stuff.

Best day of my life.

>>52873213
You don't even want both cards on the field. Either way, Miracles caused a rise in a bunch of degenerate combo and completely destroyed any aggro possible in legacy. It needed to go.

>>52873071
time to write a gambling story about a high-stakes Legacy circuit being played inside a max sec prison.

what deck would the wrongfully-convicted protagonist play?

>>52873224
8 months ago I wasn't playing legacy. There's 3-4 flex slots in the deck no matter how you put it together, and top was seen as one of the better flexes available.

It's not that I don't have other options, is that I want opinions on those options.

>>52873229
>bragging about lavishly spending money on hobbies when there is no need to
>calling others poorfags for not wanting to do the same
Can you at least recognize how inflation has created a barrier to entry that is suffocating the format?
If anything buying from SCG is accomplishing the opposite of supporting Legacy.

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ARE YOU FUCKERS READY FOR DREDGE'S RESURGENCE?

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Control faggots BTFO!
KEKED in their own format!

>>52873373
Thats a nice dredge deck

>>52873280
A deck no one understands and everyone hates, so probably Judge Destroyer 1.0

>>52873371
It's just a troll. I've seen this boring copypasta in the Modern general countless times. They just want to rustle your jimmies.

>>52873373
Wasnt dredge good against miracles anyways? I thought the rise of good grave hate killed it

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this is how you defeat Miracles

So what do I play now that wizards decided to kill my favourite deck? Try to make it work with other worse cards? Or change it up completely?

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>>52873280
Only control player in the land of aggro babbys, so everyone hates him. To make his life even harder, the prison direction make unjust card bans specifically against him after he gains notoriety.

>>52873371
I'm not denying that it does and I'm also not buying from SCG so take that as what you will. I also wouldn't consider occasionally (as in a few months) spending money on one of my hobbies to be "lavishly spending". If you seriously can't afford to occasionally spend some money on you hobbies I think you might be a poorfag.

>>52873458
Do you mean me or the chinamen faggot? This isn't a copy pasta I actually spend money on my hobbies unlike some people.

Are these generals usually infested with chinafags or have they just come out in full force? Christ this worse then the modern general.

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>play Elves
>read today's announcement
>mfw i realize I have no Leovolds yet

Guess I better pick some up before they skyrocket higher than Trumps ego.

>>52873467
nope. Everytime you set something up, they blow you the fuck away with terminus. And you can't replace tokens.

>>52873588
New WS when

>>52873614
hurry up they're 60 a pop.
>got mine for 10
I am a happy camper

>>52873657
I'm a Europoor, so bless the almighty MCM, but still a solid 40/50 Uroroos. Contemplating if I should get the single one or a pair.

All I know is that I -will- need one if BUG will be the new top dog.

>>52873734
I think Maverick will be. Death and Taxes should be knocked down a peg though.

RUG will be pretty strong as well as Grixis Delver.

what version of stoneblade should I play

I have absolutely no preference as I bought SFM, jitte and batterskull on a whim

>>52874052
deathblade
drs is the new top

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>>52870922
>mfw just finished Belcher
>have Sneak & Breach waiting in the wings
>mfw my meta was infested with Miracles

Time for the KING to take the throne

>>52870922
I think Counterbalance or Terminus was a better choice for a ban while still leaving the deck playable. RIP Miracles

>>52873121
can wait to rape you with around ten zombie tokens

>>52874210
>Counterbalance
That kills the deck
>Terminus
This as well.

>>52874309
Well what the hell would you have banned while still leaving the deck playable? Mentor? Miracles definitely needed to be knocked down a peg but man did R&D fuck this one up

>>52874309
You realize countertop existed before terminus was printed, right?

>>52874132
is this supposed to be a combo?

>>52873373
Shit list senpai.

>>52874367
You realize other things have been printed since that make terminus necessary right?

Who /Maverick/ here?

>>52874345
miracle keyword regained some of it's actual meaning, you can't shit out those cards on demand 24/7 anymore
I'm glad top is gone

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>lost one of my good matchups
but its k because change is always good

>Christ if you think occasionally spending 600 on this hobby is bad you should see how much I get raped with guitar stuff.
you should see how much i spend on mountain and cyclocross bike shit

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>>52874121
>foiling out reanimator
>nearly complete with show and tell
Fast combo WATUP

>>52872229
>Tron is control deck
And I thought the people here would be less retarded.

>>52875081
https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/53fwry/modern_scg_on_the_current_state_of_modern/d7sw8bt/
https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/53fwry/modern_scg_on_the_current_state_of_modern/d7sy2ki/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/3wox3j/rg_tron_is_it_a_control_deck/cxxzsg2/

>Gitaxian Probe is now restricted in Vintage
>Gush is now restricted in Vintage

I know some of you guys don't play Vintage but fuck probe seriously. I started maindecking Engineered Plague because of Mentor Decks going bajillion dudes with 4x G Probes. "Why not use ILLNESS IN THE RANKS anon"? Because you can't mistep an Engineered Plague. Also I think Gush has been restricted/unrestricted like 5 times now.

>Top is now restricted in Legacy

Well what am I supposed to do with all these Abrupt Decay's now? Do I still need them? I guess i'll just play them for value.

>>52875081
It's actually midrange.

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>>52875113
Oh no you linked fucking reddit comments, how will I ever recover?

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>>52875195
>let me complain about the source instead of reading why i'm wrong and a fucking mongoloid on top of that

>>52873329
Oh, carry on then.

Burning wish is good, empty the warrens, chrome Mox, dark petition are all reasonable things to play.

>>52875218
>Burning wish is good
In ANT no it's not, it exiles itself and it's not any better for answering hate in g1 than a maindeck Decay.

>>52875218

Different Storm decks anon. You're thinking of TES, not ANT.

>>52875216
What is there to read? People saying that RG Tron is a control deck? Okay, so?

RG Tron has a lot more in common with midrange and combo strats than it does with control, I have never seen anyone that prefers to play control decks consider playing modern Tron because the gameplan and gameplay isn't alike. If anything if you want to play control you would pick (as I have seen people do) the Blue of U/W versions of Tron.

>>52875272
I don't really differentiate because TES uses ad nauseum and tendrils sometimes too.

>>52875282
This is because mouthbreathers like you can't comprehend control being something else than islands and permission.
>midrange
Tron is never the beatdown and goes bigger than any midrange deck in any format ever.
>combo
The deck doesn't win on the spot after assembling xyz and has more stabilization measures than win conditions.

If you're playing Tron to slam Wurmcoil/World Breaker and beat face instead of just playing not to lose until you can win with whatever's left, you're doing it wrong.

>>52875347
>>This is because mouthbreathers like you can't comprehend control being something else than islands and permission.
Nice projection going on there, because clearly if I don't consider RG tron to be control that means I only consider draw-go to be control. Kill yourself kid.
>Tron is never the beatdown
Objectively wrong as that is the role Tron decks take (or want to take) against combo and control decks.
>bigger than any midrange deck
So? What the fuck does creature size have to with anything? Is fucking Suicide Zoo a control deck as well since it plays a 12/12 at turn 3 or 4? Absolutely retarded.
>The deck doesn't win on the spot after assembling xyz
I never said RG tron is purely a combo deck, I said it has more in common with combo than it does control like Thopter Sword but I guess reading comprehension is a skill for those with IQ levels in the double digits.

>>52875347
>Tron is never the beatdown
Until it is.
>and goes bigger than any midrange deck in any format ever.
They slam wurmcoil and Karn on turn three instead of kitchen finks answer maelstrom pulse. It scarcely matters.
>can't comprehend control being something else than islands and permission
Oh the irony.

>>52873467

Yes.

>>52873630

You have to slow-roll them; bring out one Ichorid at a time, or something. If they can't land creatures, they don't have mainboard answers for Bridge, so you just get them to throw down Terminus, then swing out with everything the following turn.

>>52873018

>If you bought Invocation Counterbalances you deserved much worse than Top being banned and your shitty cards losing value

This.

>>52872884

I paid shipping costs and little else for my Undergrounds. Moved a bunch of stuff I'd had sitting in a binder for them. Trust me; there are ways.

>>52873143

I think a second Preordain is probably the best thing for it, though it's the card I like least in the deck. Depends on the rest of your setup, though; I'm on 2x PiF, 14 lands, singletons Ad Nauseam, Chrome Mox and Rain of Filth. Might change it up next time I pick up the deck; I've gone over to Reanimator since the local was so hostile to Storm.
——————————————————————————

So all things considered, I'd long felt a ban from Miracles was the most warranted possible banning choice, but Top wasn't the card I was hoping would go—too much collateral damage. With that said, Wizards finally listened to the Legacy players. Four-plus years of a single deck's dominance (and impressive showings from its progenitors stretching back much further) is way too much, and when numerous printings intended to address the problem have either had no impact or have made things worse, a ban is pretty much the best way to bring about a change.

This will stop stretching a lot of mana bases to the breaking point, and I think that's a good thing. I feel for DDFT and his pals, though. Counterbalance would've been a much more reasonable ban, and I don't buy the "it makes games go to time" argument at all. A deck was doing that, not one of its cards, and I have trouble believing they couldn't figure that out.

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>>52875347
>Calling others mouthbreathers when you are the most retarded person ITT, even more so than the dude who beat his gf over the top ban.

Fuck off back to the Modern containment thread at take your retardation with you.

>>52875309

TES has always used AN and Tendrils, it just doesn't always play Tendrils main because of the Wish package. While they're both Storm decks TES usually wins with Warrens or resolving AN. ANT usually wins either natural storm or Past in Flames mostly, kind of inverse win con approaches. Funny thing is ANT is definitely more of a Past in Flames deck and TES is much more of an AN deck, most of the times they win a match is usually within these lines. There's alot of overlap between the lists but I dunno it's kinda hard to explain in words between how the nuances between the decks work.

>>52875282
>>52875347
There are no control decks in modern except lantern, which is meme.
Anything else approaching control is better as midrange with goyfs.
The only difference between aggro decks is how big vs how wide you go and what kind of resilience you run.
Modern was kill when they banned splinter twin, and now legacy will be delver the format.

>No more terminus
>TFW I can start raping niggas with Ichorids again

So while people are happy about this... Remember, at any point your deck happens to be "the best deck" or biggest meta share, you are gonna get hosed. This started in modern a few years ago and has been going on ever since. Also the reason why I haven't put a penny directly into WotC's pocket and why I have past 2 years been selling my cards.

There is no point buying a contender deck when it can be just banned the next update. Tfw I actually intended to buy amulet bloom before it became tournament winner and got fucked up.

Also to everyone talking about how miracles was winning tournaments. It had 24% or so mtgtop8 metashare. Of course it's going to be in top8 and has the biggest chance of winning by the sheer amount of players attending tournaments with it. When you check top32 or so lists, there is tons of decks pretty much divided by metashare, it doesn't always mean that deck is "tier 0" because it appears to win often. Same with twin.

I didn't play miracles, but I rather see it around to shit all creature based aggro decks. If we are going into direction of creature based shitshow modern is, fuck you all. Good riddance.

>>52873229
>Christ if you think occasionally spending 600 on this hobby is bad you should see how much I get raped with guitar stuff.
Musical instruments are easier to rationalise than literal pieces of cardboard

>>52875755
Not when most of the get devalued after a few years. Also pedals are retardedly expensive.

>>52875714
good point.
creatures the tappening is something to avoid.

Top was a bad ban

>>52875755
There is at least reason for instruments to be expensive. There is substance to price, because it's hard to make good sounding objects. Not like paper you can print basically for free without changing anything it represents.

>>52875714
Also, I wonder if WotC even has a database they check. Like do they seriously have data which shows what is problematic, instead some asshole goes around saying how things are. I'm 100% sure Hasbro hasn't spent a dime into database research in this game. Recalling "we don't test modern" statement.

>>52875714
Before miracles it was the most interactive format around. Everything was tempo control aggro with the occasional dredge or combo deck. The counter wars, playing around wasteland punishing fetching smashing sacrifices to gain board state later everything was viable

That was why legacy was being the fastest growing format. Then miracles happened and the format stagnated for 2 years.

>>52875892
Well, we will see what happens. There are lot of cards around that didn't exist before. I just hope it will end up being something what you describe, but I doubt it. Time will tell.

>>52874377
it's the primary function of four horsemen

>>52875934
Everyone thought 8 sol land eldrazi was to be a thing. Then every deck learned it and proceeded to shit on it. Sure it occasionally appears but it's determined its not a overpowering deck. Like mud.

Also another thing I'm worried about. Now that top is banned, I wonder how many decks that are honestly really ugly were suppressed by it. What about other format stables? If top was such an issue, how about another completely busted card that is almost necessary to any black or green deck; Deathrite shaman.

How is that card not supposed to be banned? And if you ban that, what comes after? Griselbrand is so busted that any graveyard strategy lifts their ugly head if DRS is gone. There is so many things that are in my opinion fucked atm that it starts to honestly feel like the format was better off WotC not touching it. Seriously, holy shit if this is another quarter year "ban the top list" cycle and it honestly ends up in the position of modern.

>>52876376
Also another retarded suggestion I have heard. Banning brainstorm. It's not like combo decks aren't currently in the top lists, but for fuck's sake people. When you ban brainstorm, it means FoW is going to be way less powerful than it currently is. The fact you can get saved by brainstorm into FoW currently keeps the completely retarded combos in check. But I wouldn't be surprised there is enough pro players that wank around the idea of making this game coin flip over silver bullet cards rather than playing meta stables.

>>52876376
>>52876443
bad posts

How about this:
>>52876455
shitpost

>>52876376
>>52876443
if you want to beat combo you will beat combo, especially graveyard based
one of the problems with Miracles was that there was no good hate for it you could just sideboard in

>>52876376
Do you even play legacy?

>>52875714
>I rather see it around to shit all creature based aggro decks
This alone made it worth having it in the format.
All creatures must hang.

>>52876579
at this point this is a meme response

>>52876582
Yes we know control players love to jack off to the first counterspell you can cast.

>>52876582
in case you're not ironic:
damn what a retard

>>52876582
Although apparently goblins had good matchup against it.

>>52876577
Yeah, because you played it in the maindeck in the form of Abrupt decay. Hence shardless BUG. And the fact that DRS is keeping graveyard strategies in check game 1 is huge. Of course you can play counterspells, but it's not the same thing.

>>52876579
Elaborate.

>>52876577
>one of the problems with Miracles was that there was no good hate for it you could just sideboard in
There was plenty of hate for the counter top combo, but the amount of deck manipulation the archetype had access to made it moot. By the time you removed Counterbalance the Miracles player was sitting behind Jace and a sculped 7 card hand.

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Today is the best day ever. Only thing that could be better is a SFM unban in Modern.

Two decks I can see making a comeback now are Oldschool Zoo and Pox Control. What else had bad Miracles matchups? Does the death of Miracles also kill 12post, or does it have other matchups it's favorable against?