MTG LEGACY GENERAL

>>52919558

>Miracles article has been removed from the header

;_; Goodbye, old friend.

That said, I'd rather not stop running 12post, so what do you guys think I should do to shore up against what will probably be a terminus-free meta? I'm in UG, and currently I mainboard Glacial Chasm and Maze of Ith. I'm thinking either putting in Moment's Peace or Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard/mainboard.

>>52919558
I thought that was Squirrel Girl and Dr. Doom from the thumbnail.

>>52919558
I'm considering dropping $400 on the pieces I need for stonestill. Is there any reason at all why this deck won't become a dominant force in legacy? Plus all the cards it uses are hilarious.

Nic Fit also looks good.

>>52919855
>Nic Fit
A deck that used 3-4 tops? I'm sorry, but its a deck that may have been hit with the fallout to miracles.

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>Control is Control, no matter where you go.
>A counter is a counter, that's what I say.
>Removal is removal, this is surely so...
>And locks should be locks either way!
>But this formats is not a home, this is not control I know...
>I would trade it all away if you'd come back to stay...
>This format’s not the same without you!
>It's just a cheeky brew,
>Just a cheeky brew,
>Without you...

>>52920095

Folks are already talking about switching to Library, anon. Losing Top wasn't the end of the world.

>>52920461
It's just annoying that we can't save it from our Deeds, but yeah it was more a kick in the shin than balls like Miracles got. Seen people thinking of all sorts of things we can run in place of top/the suddenly freed sideboard slots.

>>52920461
The problem is that "folks" does not encompass Wizards. They banned Top without considering what the collateral damage was. Because if they did think about it, they wouldn't have fucking banned Top.

Not to shit on the silver lining but Nic Fit players were lucky there was a silver lining at all. There could have just as easily not been an alternative.

It's not the banning that is such a problem more so the fact that Wizards doesn't know what the fuck they're doing.

>>52920642
They just banned cat in Standard. I'm willing to bet they once again snapped to the players bitching and crying on Reddit instead of reading what the pros thought about it.

This will make the upcoming Zombie deck probably more viable but enjoy having zero checks to Heart of Kiran you fucking retards.

>>52920642

Wizzerds's reasoning for bans is pretty ridiculous. Reading the ban/restriction announcement left me with the impression that they still didn't quite subscribe to the idea that having a fifth of the Legacy metagame be dominated by Miracles was a problem, and that "slow play" was the biggest issue. Most irksome was the fact that they didn't seem to understand that the issue of slow play from Top came almost exclusively from Miracles, so any ban that would crush that deck but leave others unscathed would have solved the problem.

>>52921460
Has wizards ever put forth a reasonable argument for why slow play or long turns or decks that have to do a whole lot for very little gain are bad?

Slow play for the sake of a draw is bad in magic, why not just change the rules to be like chess? 30 minutes a player or something.

The concept of slow play sounds like you're asking the judge of a card game to determine if a complete stranger is acting in bad faith.

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>tfw fish player

Feels good never having to worry about a ban, but fuck wizards has an itchy trigger finger.

who is that in the op picture

>>52922029
Nahiri and Deathrite Shaman

>>52922029
Stoneforge mystic and deathrite shaman

>>52922029
dr doom and skirlgirl

>>52920687
Citation needed

Lets pay respects to the true victim of this ban announcement, Imperial Painter

>>52923252
oh fuck it's real

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/addendum-april-24-2017-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2017-04-26

eat shit, 12 year old Spkies

>>52923483
I was just thinking about this today
pouring a 40 on the highway tonight.

Im so sad about Painter being unviable now. It was my dream Legacy deck and I was going to try to build it, slowly getting all the pieces once I could afford it. Now its dead completely probably, I dont see how it lives as it always played 3-4 Tops, and even then it was fringe.

>>52923483
It was a fun (one misplay and you're fucked) matchup for me and I like the deck. Is it really crippled beyond hope without Top?

>>52919855
What is Stonestill

>>52921601
The reason why slow play is a problem is because some players are inconsiderate faggots who don't bother learning how to play the game well enough to play fast enough. It's not entirely an issue actively burning down the clock for value.

In order to mitigate player faggotry or just pure incompetence, I can understand banning shit like Top under the pretenses of slow play.

HOWEVER. The only reason why I feel slow play excuse flies is in Modern where there's still some semblance of maintaining interest from new players or for GP viewing purposes. But this is Legacy. There is a 100% chance that anybody new to Magic did not start with Legacy. It's bad enough that Legacy players have come to terms with the fact Wizards doesn't care about their sustainability what with the Reserve List but to presume that they're too fucking terrible to play Top quickly enough? You might as well be saying to them, "...not only do we not care if your format dies, we're just going to fuck with it just because we can" like they did with the Top ban.

The ONLY good fucking reason I can imagine they could use to pull the slow play card is because of Legacy on MTGO. You fucking stroke the Top so people don't get pissed playing against Top online, which would impact their revenues. And if this were true, I would say it's a good reason, but they are always too fucking cowardly to admit something like this. Instead players are just going to stew in the knowledge that they made a shit decision in public.

I don't know what to think about the Vintage situation.

This would never be a real problem if it wasn't for the fact that the game is expensive as fuck. We would be able to tolerate any number of retarded bannings and unbannings if a banning meant we were out $30-50 for playsets of a variety of cards in a deck that is no longer viable. Except in most cases, "playsets of a variety of cards" actually amounts to somewhere in the range of $300.

>>52924182
The deck was already barely playable as it was. Top was used to help find the combo and in combination with Enlightened Tutor and Imperial Recruiter was the only way of having consistency. I guess you could go up to 4 E Tutors but I still dont see the deck surviving. Strangely though with Miracles dead and gone, Blood Moon just got a lot better and Miracles was also Painters worst matchup so maybe its still just barely viable.

Are there still people out there who dont think Miracles deserved a ban?

>>52924763
Nobody is arguing against kicking Miracles in the balls. They just hit the wrong fucking card and gave a shit justification for it.

Is there any reason to use StP over Path? Using StP on Marit Lage hurts my soul. Not many decks in legacy play any basics anyway.

>>52924879
>Not many decks in legacy play any basics anyway.
What the fuck kind of Legacy are you playing

>>52924909

The kind where I go against some iteration of Delver or turbo depths every single game

>>52924951
Both if those decks run at least one basic for shit like StP.

>>52924879
You can run both depending on the deck. What are you playing?

>>52924763
Not really, but you'll find plenty of us that think Terminus or maybe Counterbalance are what should have gone instead to not kill the deck dead and hurt several other deck types incidentally.

>>52924733
Welp. RIP in pieces.

>>52924879
They both have their uses; it depends on the expected meta, your deck and your gameplan. If you want to talk about soul hurting just wait until you have to Toxic Deluge Marit Lage.

>>52925319
Its ok. I thankfully never bought the deck as it was too expensive to justify at the time, now im really glad I didnt. Oh well I guess ill just stick to playing Burn.

>>52924379
It's not quite stacks, miracles or stasis in terms of feel. It is definitely an oppressive control deck though. Miracles was not only better than it but shit on it profusely so I think it is positioned for a rise in popularity. Just when stoneforge mystic hit 17 dollars too.

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=15268&d=292778&f=LE

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>>52924807

If theres one good thing that came from this ban announcement its the hilarious salt levels on reddits legacy board with all the whiny faggots bitching about it

>>52924608

>I don't know what to think about the Vintage situation.

Don't worry, Vintage doesn't ever go to time because someone eventually develops some lock or combo piece or beats down fast enough. Games will always finish in Vintage.

It is time for the return of GRIXIS THIEVES into Legacy.

So is anyone going to brew something cool now that we have the first format shakeup in a long time?

I guess the usual suspects will fill the void, but has anyone done anything novel with some of the cards in the past few blocks combined with old spicy tech?

>>52924763
Me. I play against miracles any time over Elves.

I was going to build DDFT, but with top being banned, is it still a viable deck?

>>52927644
lol

>>52927697
Thanks for input, senpai

>>52927704
>DDFT went postal
>Teeth anon lost nic fit and miracles, now plays mono green storm
>Esper Miracles has been missing, pressumed suicide

>>52927962
Dont forget
>Some dude put his girlfriend in the ICU over the banning

>>52927981
this still feels like a ruse, anyone posted the proof yet?

>>52927962
>DDFT went postal
What? When?

>>52921460
They are the people that banned cloud of faeries...
For familiars.
A tier 2 or so deck.
And didnt ban delver in pauper instead

>>52921947
>tfw dredge

I AM IN FEAR. DO NOT LOOK HERE MARO.

>>52928865
Why would they ban dredge? Dredge was great against miracles and nobody played it. If anything youll get a buff in 3 years when deathrite gets banned.

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I LIVE, I DIE, I LIVE AGAIN.

>>52929651
Wizards has a hardon for fucking with dredge and grave decks.

Also dredge MU w8th miracles is shit thanks to terminus unless you combo T1 on the draw or via hateflayer

>>52930017
Dredge was great for fucking with miracles. After the terminus you had all the time in the world to rebuild and go again. The thing holding you people back is the fact that a one drop grave devouring monster is a 2-4of in a ton of common decks.

>>52929989
>no 1x SSG
are you even the same guy

>>52929989
Chromatic spheres haven't been white bordered yet.

I don't even know you anymore.

>>52930433
SSG crossed my mind but it seems bad. I'd rather add storm count than occasionally flashback therapy. I want to swap the Ideas Unbound for Three Wishes and make one of the spheres a Conjurer's Bauble. Without Top, IU is a lot worse and 3W enables some weird piles.

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>>52929989
Witnessed! Those spheres look painful. I'm so sorry DDFT.

>>52930503
I haven't white boredered a couple of the cards because I've been changing lists so much. I started at a straight BUG list with Veteran Explorers, made it all the way to a TES hybrid list with 4 manamorphose, then turned around and settled more in the middle. Still trying to feel out how it plays differently, but it isn't too bad. Still might just be worse than ANT, haven't decided. Mostly goldfishing right now.

>>52930578
Some list used to play 1 sphere anyway because it has an interesting interaction with lab maniac. The draw is part of a mana ability so it can't be responded to, so it can be used to make removal-proof piles.

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>>52930616
>The draw is part of a mana ability so it can't be responded to, so it can be used to make removal-proof piles.
DUDE

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>top's price keeps rising on TCGplayer
What was the average price before the ban? All of these price history sites seem to be detached from reality.

Is there a UB control deck in Legacy?

>tfw Big Red player
Do I have anything to worry about?

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>>52931587
YES!
You have summoned me to shitpost about my favorite deck, ask away.

>>52927962
Don't worry, good ol Esper miracles guy is still here unfortunatley. I haven't given up hope yet but I'm thinking of upping my snapcaster count and adding 3 morr Lim-dul's vaults main board. I'm desperate to say the least but I don't want to give up

>>52931759
What are your bad matchups? I would assume you can easily handle combo decks with discard and counters, is that correct? What are some spicy/offbeat cards you've tried?

>>52931927
>Bad Matchups.
Burn can be hard due to my lack of spot removal for creatures and low basic count, though Chalice helps a lot.
BUG decks are a challenge because of how much disruption they bring to the table, and Decay blowing up Chalices.
The deck did a great job of preying on Miracles , so having that banned kinda hurts.

>Easily handle combo decks with discard and counters.
I'm not playing any discard, but I've got 4 Force, 4 Chalice and a Trinisphere maindeck, so I do like my combo matchup.
>Spice
I've played around with Padeem, since he gives my board protection from Abrupt Decay and draws cards, but ended up dropping him. There were too many times where the card draw forced me out from under a Bridge.
There are also some lists that play Breya, Etherium Shaper as a wincon tutorable with Transmute Artifact, which is sweet. People underestimate the amount of damage Breya represents with her sac ability all the time.
I've wanted to try Tangle Wire for the longest time, since I often have a ton of extra permanents and can keep ticking up my planeswalkers while under it, but never really panned out.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ubr-tezz-4/

>>52931824
>the full 4 LDV
Spicy to say the least. A while back I played against a spicy Esper Omnishow list with 4 maindeck LDV and 4 Terminus. Seemed to work OK and confused the fuck out of me.

>>52932136
Cool, thanks!

>>52926050
qft
fuck reddit

>>52930183
Terminus is amazing against Dredge

>>52929989
When did you white-border the petal? Was your buddy upset like you thought he'd be?

>>52933562
I did it a couple weeks ago. Acetone doesn't work so I did it with a very sharp knife. Gently scraped the border off. He just laughed actually, which was good for me. Was expecting a cunt punt.

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>>52927962
>tfw Grixis Delver is still a contender

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-legacy-constructed-league-2017-04-27

>>52932300
There's a new Legacy video series where some dude is going to be playing an UB Omnitell list.

http://itsjulian.com/results/

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>>52929989

>>52929989
>Mostly white borders, some random black borders
I don't respect namefagging but I respect your moxy and taste

>>52936052
You know the joke here is that those cards weren't originally white bordered. He raped them with acetone. There's a white bordered masterpiece lotus petal for fucks sake. I assume the black border cards are top replacements that haven't been given the mengele treatment yet

>>52936052
>I don't respect namefagging
First time in the legacy general?

>>52936101
Yes, I know. Moxy and taste.
>>52936137
:^)

>>52919558
>no control deck in this format now
wtf I hate Leagcy

>>52919717
>top-less 12 post
Give it up, dude. Your deck is garbage-tier now.

>>52936203
Countertop isn't the only way to play control. I was angry about the ban at first too, but I'm waiting to see what the new meta looks like. As long as we have force of will legacy will never become modern.

>>52936224
>Playing top in 12-post
>A deck with no fetches or ponders
Expedition map is the only filter you need, fellow patrician

>>52923993
THIS
H
I
S

Top made decks that shouldn't work work.

I am salty that wotc is putting it's faggot fingers in legacy, though. Nothing good will come of bannings in the second purest format.

I've wanted to get into Legacy for a while but now I'm unsure. Is it even worth doing? WotC is doing a good job of making every format look like a shitshow.

First there's lolstandard this past cycle. Modern is a minefield of bans waiting to happen. And now this short-sighted Top ban.

>>52930616
>The draw is part of a mana ability so it can't be responded to, so it can be used to make removal-proof piles
Oh damn that's pretty awesome

>>52936612

At this point, don't even invest in paper. Wotc have made it clear that they're ready to ban anything they consider unfun with no regards to how the majority of their players feel.

>>52937043
just move on to a different deck you crybabby

>>52936612
Standard is an absolute joke of bans.
>ban everything currently winning regardless of printed answers

Modern isn't as bad.
>Unless they ban Death's Shadow for some dumb reason the only thing that comes to mind is SSG.

Legacy has been trying for years to find a counter to top.
>Mfw wizards clearly prints Harsh Mentor as a response
>Top btfo anyways
Yeah, it's a little on the expensive side to get into and still be worried about bans, but there's a shit ton of viable decks that aren't ban-bait.

>>52937175
>Lmao just buy a 2k+ dollars/euros bunch of cardboard kek
>ur nut a poorfag
I'm not bcause I don't go around throwing 2k+ on cardboard.

>>52937043
Only format worth getting into atm is limited or pauper.

>>52936427
>Top made decks that shouldn't work work.
That is literally one of the main ways I judge how fun a card is for a format. See life from the loam.

>>52919558
Okay /tg/, I know it's way too expensive of a deck considering it hasn't been viable for two years, but:

HOW DO WE SAVE PAINTER? Especially without top?

>>52938474
KILL MARO.

>>52938474
Its dead Jim

>>52936235
>As long as we have force of will
WoTC will get rid of it soon. They'll probably go ham on the format and the most popular deck every year to spice things up.

>>52939034
t. Salty Miraclesfag
Sorry your petdeck got banned, youll get over it soon though

Only autists love control

>>52939211
I like all archetypes except midrange and even that's rarely OK.

>tfw to stupid to play midrange

>>52939360
Its just so autistic reading about "muh interaction" "muh i hate solitaire decks" "muh intellect and counters"

>>52939211
t. play creatures and turn them sideways -player

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>>52939398
>tfw to intelligent too play control

>All these memerange rapefugees hating on miracles and not undersanding why terminus should have been banned instead of top
Go away back to memedern.

>>52939434
>>52939398
>tfw too nazi to play anything but dredge

>>52939466
>tfw I literally threw an undefeated run at a tournament because I didn't know I'd lose if I tried to dredge with 0 cards in library
>tfw to stupid to even play dredge

>>52939518
You actually don't lose.
You just can't dredge more than you have.

Jesus fuck anon this is like denying the holohoax it isn't rocket science you know?

>>52939414
Yes and now that Miracles is dead we are here to stay control cuck. And if you keep trying to counter my stuff ill call up MaRo and Aaron Foreskin and get Brainstorm banned too, so dont get too uppity.

>>52939560
I was told that even though it was a replacement effect and since I went to draw with 0 cards, even though I was dredging, I tried to draw with 0 cards in deck and died
Which sucked because I had the combo in my yard and was just fucking around, I literally just had to count the number of cards in my deck

Does Lands get better now that Miracles is gone? A non blue control deck seems pretty fun, and playing 35+ lands is unique

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>>52939414
>he actually casts his creatures
hah this fuckin guy

>>52939594
>Creatures
>[laughing combo]

>>52939610
Here is what happens (tell that guy/judge to drink bleach and KYS)
>Attempt to use replacement effect but can't
Lose game because of illegal game action (such as for example, drawing 4 cards using a bstorm, fetching 2 lands with a fetch, etc..)
OR
Can't do it, hence can't replace, hence have to draw a card and lose the game because of drawing from an empty library.


You literal retard, don't fuck with dredge all you had to do was kill the retards who forget grave hate.

>tfw dont actually hate control just the people who play it are usually muh intellect fedora douches I actually enjoyed playing against Miracles just never the pilot

>>52939618
In the short term I think it gets a little worse. Combo decks will see an uptick, but once the meta settles a bit lands will likely be good again.

>>52933711
Man Grixis delver looks like such a dick deck, but alas I can't afford shit.

Since creatures are back in style, Enchantress is the best deck in the format right?

>>52929989
hope for the hopeless
so did you just swap in 2 petals and 2 spheres?

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What do you guys think about pic related?

>>52942323
if it's just randomly going to be indestructable I kinda think it should be legendary but otherwise fine.

>>52942323
I'm almost curious if this makes door to nothingness viable in some fucking weird way

>>52942441
Unless you can make 10 mana extremely quickly I doubt it. Maybe some kind of High Tide-based deck

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4 darksteel citadel
4 cascading cataracts
X mana rocks
4x4 "destroy all lands" spells

Dingus Eggs

Or just pick related

>>52942441
>>52942323
Does anyone have a list for that fucking ridiculous brew where you make someone use Door to Nothingness on themselves?

>>52942494
Metalworker is legal in the format so I wouldn't say it's impossible

>>52942528
That actually sorta works

Are there more Dingus Egg like cards that punish lands hitting graveyards?

rules question:

Torpor Orb and Living Plane are on the battlefield.
> Torpor Orb stops a creature’s own enters-the-battlefield triggered abilities as well as other triggered abilities that would trigger when a creature enters the battlefield.

> Look at the permanent as it exists on the battlefield, taking into account continuous effects, to determine whether any triggered abilities will trigger. For example, if you control March of the Machines, which says, in part, “Each noncreature artifact is an artifact creature,” Torpor Orb will be a creature when it enters the battlefield and will not cause triggered abilities to trigger.

Does this cancel out the ETB effect of Lotus Vale (even though it would have summoning sickness?)

>>52942800
I don't think so because the Vale's effect happens when you go to put it into play. It hasn't hit the field yet and so isn't effected by the other cards.

>>52924972
from memory most of the three colour delver lists have not been running any basics. I can't imagine those four colour leovold fuckers are running any either.

>>52942800
Lotus Vale's ability was printed as a trigger but has been errata'd to be a replacement effect changing how it enters the battlefield.

From Gatherer:

If Lotus Vale would enter the battlefield, sacrifice two untapped lands instead. If you do, put Lotus Vale onto the battlefield. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.

>>52942800
Lotus Vale was errata'd into a replacement effect instead of an ETB because Wizards realized they printed a land version of black lotus.

>>52943111
Same thing for mox diamond

>>52942549
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/lab/theres-door-2013-10-31
This?

>>52943182
>http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/lab/theres-door-2013-10-31
mother of god...

>>52942378
My friend explained that it is indestructible because you can see the individual Gods behind the waterfalls. So they make the land indestructible by proxy I guess.

What is SSG

>>52943182
Jesus.

>>52942952
That's retarded, even vintage mentor runs an Island.

should i play bant deathblade or stay esper if I think I'm going to go up against blood moon?

>>52929989
This list goldfishes pretty well

Top was always nice for stacking your deck / pondering, but it doesn't really feel that different. But top piles always required a little extra since the top put itself back into the doomsday pile.

I tried running Desperate Research (instead of fourth wish) as a one off to dig for the final combo piece in case you have the sorceries you need but no draw spell/artifact to setup a pile. you can also throw that into a pile as an ideas unbound replacement: if you have an LED+cantrip artifact on the board, doomsday + DR naming lab man, crack LED, exile the whole pile, slam the Man and cracking the artifact for the win.

Plus playing combo now without needing to get around counterbalance makes Storm easier to setup

I don't even need to sleeve a playset of abrupt decay, though I miss having top for the chain of vape combo

How are you supposed to play this deck against DnT?

>>52929989

WELCOME BACK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yew9L0Xjm_g

>>52942058
Well I cut green entirely, I used to play 2 decay main. I added petals and preordains, and the baubles. The deck goldfishes well enough but it definitely feels gimped in long gamessage where top excelled, and lots of piles no longer work, which is why I'm testing Three Wishes instead of Ideas Unbound.
>>52944925
Honestly I think it feels a lot different. piles are different, it doesn't grind as well, and it leans harder on ETW. But it functions, so it's a start. 1 or 2 cards different matters a lot to how the deck plays.
>how does it play vs don't
Go off fast if possible. If not, wish for massacre. If even that won't work, try to make a lot of mana and plow through thalia or whatever with a pass the turn pile

>>52945454
Its dead Jim
Just let go and play a different Storm variant. Dont embarass yourself playing such meme garbage.
>inb4 DDFT was a meme
It was, but it was a working meme. Now its just dead and trying to force it will be just as painful to watch as people forcing Painter with no Top
Let the deck die with dignity

>>52924763
It probably deserved a ban, but Top was too much, and it certainly won't make people play other control decks. It's like banning Twin and claiming you want people to play blue in Modern. Delver wasn't even that far behind Miracles in the metagame, and that's with Miracles being one of its worst matchups. All that's going to happen now is Legacy will devolve into Delver + DRS decks.

>>52945755
I can't let go of the meme just yet. I've tried other legacy decks and they just don't do it for me. DDFT is the only deck I've ever played and enjoyed in the format besides Nourishing Lich

So I guess Im selling off miracles and nic fit. Is lands under 4k nowadays or should I just lay low for a while with oops and MGS?

>>52946722
With the parts you have from miracles and nic fit you could probably play BUG, maybe bug standstill if you want a control deck. Probably would come together for mostly the cost of the standstills.

>>52946757
Its not a deck I love. I already tried combining it to a bug nic fit standstill (I have had that miracles deck since it was a wee babby dreadstill deck) but it doesnt give me the feeling miracles gave me. Lands is the closest one thats also viable. Besides I have a few other playsets of legacy staples so lands would only be 1800 before trades. My wastelands have been wasting away in the binder for quite a while now.

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>>52946522
I have a meme doomsday list that uses Painter/Deathgrip, running basically lab maniac as and feels a lot more controlly than stormbros ever want. I think it's funny to have on hand though.

4x Brainstorm
4x Dark Ritual
1x Daze
2x Flusterstorm
4x Force of Will
2x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Rain of Filth
1x Chromatic Star
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Lotus Petal
1x Laboratory Maniac
2x Painter's Servant
2x Deathgrip
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Doomsday
4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Ideas Unbound
1x Infernal Contract
1x Ponder
1x Island
4x Polluted Delta
4x River of Tears
1x Swamp
4x Underground Sea
4x Wasteland

sb:
2x Baleful Strix
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Tombstalker
1x Flusterstorm
2x Laboratory Maniac
2x Massacre
2x Snuff Out
3x Surgical Extraction

>>52947759
IS PAINTER/DEATHGRIP THE NEW TOP/CB? CAN PAINTER AND MIRACLES LIVE AGAIN?

>>52946522
>I can't let go of the meme just yet

I'm wishing you luck myself. If people on this board could bring back and prove Nourishing Lich was still viable, I hope you can make your pet deck work too.

>>52948366
>nourishing lich
>viable
HA.
My best result with it was 2-3 in a league. It's janky as fuck. I tried a veteran explorer version of it a couple days ago and won a few matches but it definitely is janky.

>>52941132
>Man Grixis delver looks like such a dick deck, but alas I can't afford shit.

Start saving up. All the cards except for the duals and forces are pretty damn cheap since the cards are mostly commons and uncommons. Or see if your store allows proxies. The rest of the deck, minus the 6 duals, is around $500 I think. Just get 4 Flooded Strand and 4 Polluted Delta from Khans for the fetches.

Also yeah Grixis Delver is pretty brutal. The FLGS owner told me that I have the most hateful sideboard he's ever seen.

Here's what I have for a meta that has MUD, Elves, Jund, Maverick, and sometimes RUG Delver and another Grixis Delver

2 Surgical Extraction
1 Fatal Push
1 Thoughtseize
1 Pyroblast
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Price of Progress
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Baleful Strix
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Kolaghan’s Command
1 Fire Covenant
1 Sudden Demise

>>52946522
Its time to get some help

>>52945755
>tfw wizards killed buttload of fun memedecks instead of burning terminus

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Has anyone played around with Monarch in control decks? It seems like a pretty powerful mechanic, a howling mine for your end step that can never go away, just switch between players.

>>52950226
>Has anyone played around with Monarch in control decks? It seems like a pretty powerful mechanic, a howling mine for your end step that can never go away, just switch between players.

Have fun losing the monarch status to a True-Name Nemesis

Palace Jailer made sense in D&T because he was pure card advantage once you'd locked out your opponent and was really strong vs Miracles.

Custodi Lich costs 5 mana and dies to 1 mana removal. I don't see a lot of potential.

>>52950978

I was just using him as an example, there are numerous cards that generate Monarch. Interesting to hear about Palace Jailer!

also true name nemesis was a mistake

>>52947980

The spice must flow.

Any Storm enthusiasts not sold on axing all the green cards? Seriously thought Abrupt Decay was the only one worth using, and only for a certain matchup that's no longer a problem.

>>52951451
I get what you're saying, I had considered Monarch cards at one point but they're all very expensive to cast and land destruction is pretty normal in Legacy.

Palace Jailer is definitely the best out of all of them. He's pretty much a 3 for 1 in and of himself, which for 4 mana that can be shot out of an aether vial is pretty strong

>also true name nemesis was a mistake
That's what you get for being a filthy non-blue player ;^)

Should I make Grixis Delver, unbiased legacy thread?

>tfw sorta kinda want to see DRS gone

>>52952705

S T O P

>>52952705

IT'S THE TIME FOR NATSOC.
THE DAY OF THE DREDGE HAS COME.

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Been loving playing dredge way too much. It got everything going on with Mad turn 1 lethal to Aggro to Grind the shit out of you.

Share me your LED dredge lists, can't get enough of these. I want to see some dank shits thrown in them.

>>52952889
Quadlazer is still pretty good
Spiciest thing I've seen is nips running burning inquiry which I thought was sick

>>52947980
painter dies to twice as much as top, but infinite counterspell is nice

>>52952913
I've been mostly running quadlazer cutting 1 ichor and 1 breakthrough or careful study for 1x dread return and Flame-kin Zealot. Work pretty well.

Now trying to fit in Prized amalgams and maybe will try street wraith or gitaxian probe to test full on combo style.

>>52951470
You could always run Mirri's Guile to go with your Bayous and Tropical Islands :^)

I demand legacy meme decks
Where are the best legacy meme.deqs

Hey so what's the deal with As Foretold

You can use it to play cards like Ancestral Visions for free, right?

>>52954120
Yes
It's also active during other player's turns

>>52954196
Timecrafting finally playable?

>>52954120
Gives mono (or splash) blue decks access to:
Free Hypergenesis
Free Living End
Free Restore Balance
Free Lotus Bloom
Free Wheel of Fate

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>>52954071
I got your memes right HERE

>>52943182
Yessss this fucking thing

I want to build this

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>>52954379
I'll see your meme and raise you one fragile hunk of shit replete with bad cards.

>>52954379
lol I'm playing this on xmage right now and getting destroyed

>>52955247
lel I just did too and lost to bug delver

>>52952621

I think Grix is the best of the delvers. I'm not sure what's going to happen with Delvers going forward (I don't think they'll take over everything as many have suggested), but it's sturdy, fast, and optimizes Cabal Therapy. All excellent features.

>>52954071

All Spells. Sixty percent of the time, it works every time.

>>52954120

It appears so from the release notes, but the card is terribly worded if that's the case. It doesn't say, "You may cast spells with converted mana cost X or less, where X is the number of McGuffin counters on As Foretold." It says, "You may pay {0} rather than pay the mana cost of a spell you cast." So it doesn't say, "you may cast a spell;" it says "rather than paying mana when you're casting something, you can pay {0}." Trouble with Living End, Ancestral, and Hypergenesis, etc. is that they don't have a mana cost, meaning they can't be cast unless other specific conditions are met. Any judges around here have further input?

>>52946722

What sort of Nic Fit do you have? I'm curious because I'm wondering whether the BUG Nic Fit builds could power through without Top. Been considering throwing everyone at the LGS for a loop and playing a fair deck, and that one seems least predictable for my opponents.

Man you really need to know this format well in order to effectively sideboard huh

I'm testing some Sneak lists (red and UR versions) and I can't sideboard for shit

>>52955421
How does it interact with Trinisphere?
Does the eternal trinisphere tax apply? I assume yes just because Trinisphere ruins everything

>>52955432
You need to lose to decks in order to sideboard properly for your LGS/scene and cover the weaknesses in your deck / hose dominant archetypes

>>52955498
Oh I'm on xmage so it's all over the place. Lots of Deathrite BUG right now though

>>52955476
As I understand the card, it grants the next spell you cast an alternative cost of 0, so yes trinisphere should rape it too.

But I'm not a judge so what the fuck do I know

>>52955247
>>52955341
Get memed on nerds. Gotta meme with the old time memers to meme like a real memester. memes

>>52954071
If you actually want to play interesting games 108 card lands and variations on mono blue martyr are pretty fun.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sins-of-lands/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-deckpaste/mono-blue-pitcher/

>>52919558
I don't care what's in this thread. The two in OP's pic should fuck.

Any drawfags here?

>>52956053
Fuck I just realized it didn't do the sideboard correctly for some reason. All of this shouldn't be in the maindeck.
SB: 2 Divert
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Back to Basics
SB: 3 Submerge
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction

>>52943182
panharmonicon and several other newer cards enable this pretty hard

>>52956016
Please do not

What's the best you've ever done in a tournament? Do we have any gp/scg top 8/16/32's here or are we just a bunch of scrubs?

>>52956053
>108 card lands
Is that reality? I want to play that so badly.

Elves will be at least two out of the next major top 8. Screen cap this

>>52959393
I don't think many doubt you

Is now the time to finish my Enchantress deck and finally join the Legacy master race?

>>52958620
I went to an SCG open for modern and went like 5-3, but I live in the middle of nowhere and don't have a car so I can't exactly go anywhere

What's Delver's enemy?

>>52960015
Pox senpai

>>52947759
>google "death grip"

Well, you learn something new every day

>>52952621
If the interaction between Therapy and P-Diddy makes your dick as hard as it does mine, yes.

>>52960263
YEUH

>>52955421
The reason it's worded like that is, as far as I can tell, because if it was the other way it would allow you to cast sorcerys during your opponent's turn. Pretty sure the way it's worded you can't do that.

>>52955476
Yup, it's just an alternate cost, same as FOW, same as Terminus.

>>52960331
I knew about the band, I didn't know about "A non-medical condition, where a male who excessively masturbates develops callouses on his penis."

>>52960421
Jesus christ I might fucking have that

desu

>>52960015
lands completely shits on delver. It's not close, I've seen plenty of lands v delver games, and especially pre-board it is pretty ugly.

>>52960696
That surprises me, I'd think that delver can race lands before lands can set up anything

Glad miracles is dead. Everyone is. Except for faggots who played it. Too bad for you, should have seen it coming and sold your shit.

You pay the price for your lack of vision (nerd)

>>52960765
anything with pf + grove is good against delver really, plus lands has maze of ith, hurts delver's manabase far more than they hurt lands', and the dark depths combo is impossible for delver to beat outside of holding up a wasteland (at which point lands will just waste back or will have punishing fire going). Surgical makes post-board matchups a little better, but still not good

To hell with Delver. I'm making Miracle Gro, featuring Myth Realized and Quirion Dryad.

So now that Miracles is dead, does that mean Maverick is good again? I originally wanted to run NIc Fit but since Top is gone I figure that Maverick is the better choice.

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>>52931616
Nah, Big Red is going to be great in this brave new meta. Blood moon wrecks the shit out of greedy bug decks, chalice/3ball shits all over delver, elves, and storm, B/R reanimator is on the downswing due to everyone having sufficient SB grave hate, and we lost one of our harder matchups in Miracles to boot. This is about the best that I've ever seen Big Red positioned.

>>52956086
kill yourself

>>52959393
you can hate elves out easily, unlike miracles
in fact every fast combo is very susceptible to answers

>>52962197
anyone's guess how good the deck will work in the current meta

>>52924763
It deserved a powering down, not a killing off. And even if it did deserved to be killed they should have banned another card that had less collateral damage.

But no, Wizards has a hateboner for everything they deem "unfun" which might as well translate into "challenging".

>>52960765
How the fuck do you race infinite removal that can be set up as early as turn 2?

>>52962776
the deck was busted and banning terminus or ETA wouldn't change that

I need a deck that really poops on lands, I hate losing to that deck

>>52963150
Big red.
>>52963105
Lierally 0 people advocate for banning ETA and terminus and/or counterbalance definitely would have done it while killing less decks.
Banning terminus also could have increased the variations of the countertop because there would be a reason to play stoneforge and a reason not to play white.

>>52963229
they always banned enablers, can't see them banning three cards that are perfectly fine on their own

>>52963372
I was advocating for them banning 1 (terminus) card and if that didn't work them banning a second (counterbalance). By banning 'the enabler' (nice meme, what are we going to ban brainstorm too?) Wizards banned FOUR WHOLE FUCKING DECKS (actually more, but 4 decks that people care about). 3 of which were perfectly fine on their own.

>>52963372
>World gorger dragon

Would Survival be fine to take off the banned list?

>>52960315
To be honest yes, I only ever want to play decks that let you jam Cabal Therapy.
There is just something so sweet about that card.

>>52919558

Dumb question, who's the Dr. Doom looking guy next to Stoneforge Mystic?

>>52964879
DRS

>>52960696
>lands completely shits on delver. It's not close, I've seen plenty of lands v delver games, and especially pre-board it is pretty ugly.

Post board it gets a lot better since Delver generally runs Surgicals and Sulfuric Vortex. It's still an uphill climb, mind you, but it's not nearly as bad as it could be. Getting a Gurmag Angler out is the most important thing you can do.

In other news, went 2-1 (again) at FNM. It was super weird, last week it was a bunch of nonblue decks. This week we had 3 Grixis Delver players (including myself). First two rounds were vs the mirror, and then 3rd round was vs Eldrazi.

My sideboard was not set up for so many mirror matches at all. Guess the Delver players are coming out of the woodwork with Miracles gone.

>>52920687
>instead of reading what the pros thought about it

The pros said cat should be banned.

Someone recently won a big Legacy event with Miracles and said the deck should be banned.

>instead of reading what the pros thought about it

>>52965929
NOBODY is saying miracles was OK

people are saying top shouldn't have been banned instead terminus should have

>>52965948

More a comment on cat than Top.

Terminus wasn't the problem. Counterbalance would have been a more reasonable ban than either.

>>52967164
Except terminus was the reason aggro got pushed the fuck out of the format, because a 1 mana instant speed wrath of god, but way fucking better since it gets past leave, indestructible and grave effects is 100% fair and balanced in a format with buttload of top manipulation.

>>52967256
>Terminus was the reason aggro got pushed the fuck out of the format

Not really, Terminus is still legal and a Collected Company Maverick deck just 5-0'd a Legacy League

Aggro hasn't been good for ages, it's too slow for the fast combo and tempo decks nowadays. Last time it was good was before Innistrad was released

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>>52936101
>the mengele treatment
Oh fuck me I'm using that term from now on