Every Fucking Time

>>52903937
https://dungeonmasterblock.podbean.com/e/ep-30-the-players-block/

>>52903937

I call half a bullshit on that. Yes, the subject is not being brought often enough, but I recall a paragraph or two in many books (characters supplement to WHFRP, Kult, one of AD&D editions, some more) about how to behave and act so that everybody, including the gm, has a lot of fun.

It was so well established that ppl from the gaming community in my country are actually expected to know some basic "gaming etiquete:.

>>52906883
I think its more about the size comparison. The DM gets 10+ pages on how to be a good DM, the players get an optional paragraph or two.

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>>52903937
>It has no advice about how be a good player (or at least not be "that guy")
Well anon, a counterpoint:
When was the last time you were able to make your players RTFM?
Best to not waste the page space
>Players faces when I ask them to read a primer of a couple of paragraphs and/or to meet with me to prep their character sheets ahead of time.

>>52907322
>>Players faces when I ask them to read a primer of a couple of paragraphs and/or to meet with me to prep their character sheets ahead of time
No luck
For my last campaign, I made a 2-3 pages introduction of the system, races, classes and characteristics
I had to add 1 or 2 pages with the answers to the question of my players about things I didn't bother to explain

>>52903937
>Rulebook has 100+ pages about how to be a good gm
>all of it is written for experienced gms
>none of it actually teaches a newbie the ropes behind useless advice like "just explain what happens"

Training new gms is absolutely the weakest part of the rpg industry and the biggest constraint on it's growth. Hell, I've never in my life seen a book with an example of gming that was longer than a paragraph.

Since no major company actually tries to do it, the community just has to rear new ones themselves, which turns out swarms of shit gms (through no fault of their own). People either invent it all themselves or copy the person who gmed for them (who in turn either made it all up himself, or copied it all from whoever gmed for *him*). Or worst of all, groups leave the hobby or never enter it because they can't get anyone to gm or whoever does it doesn't do a great job.

Take DnD, for example. The 5e starter set is probably the single most common onramp to role-playing for new people right now, yeah? It gives a new dm very little to work with. Large sections of "walk through the wilderness rolling for encounters" as the only directions. Important role-playing encounters with no instructions whatsoever. One encounter features a necromancer who is described as willing to reward the party for accomplishing a certain role-playing. The task contains no input on what happens if the party fucks it up, and no information on what sort of information or assistance the necromancer can offer. The cover-art encounter of the book, a young green dragon, contains no information whatsoever beyond his statline. Role-playing can be attempting by the dm has to freewheel.

How the hell is that supposed to work for a group who've never roleplayed before? How is a fourteen year old whose knowledge of DnD is non-existent supposed to run that game successfully? Maybe he's supposed to, and it's aimed at getting veterans of other systems to switch over, but that's a flimsy excuse.

>>52903937
>>It has no advice about how be a good player (or at least not be "that guy")
You must be playing some really shitty game if it doesn't have a chapter or two for that

>>52907451
There really needs to be a example campaign, which is just a transcript of a dev campaign.

>Book has rules for tons of useless shit that never happens
>Has no rules for things like high speed which is pretty doable to achieve
So my character can move at mach 1 but I have literally no benefit or penalty beyond move from A to B in less rounds and being an easier target because I provoke more AoOs and running removes my Dex to Defense.

Players never read the manual

>>52908468
I'm getting mixing signals, people get buttmad if I read the manual, then get buttmad when I don't.

>>52908534
Why would anyone be buttmad for your reading the manual?
RTFM is a mantra around here.
The more informed a player is the better.

Unless you are referring to "monster manuals" in which case you are robbing yourself of the joy of discovery. Metagaming is a hell of a drug.

If you mean in this thread, people are saying there should be MORE stuff for you to read, if anything.

>>52908580
Half the GMs I know got buttmad when I read the manual, then when I stopped doing it they got buttmad I didn't. And I mean the basic manual not the GM manual.

>>52908534
They don't get mad about you reading then manual, they get mad about you knowing more than them and correcting them when they're wrong, its different

>>52908684
As a GM, I'd rather my players know the rules and catch me on any goof-ups I might do. GMs who get mad at their players actually knowing the rules are just power-tripping assholes, same with rules-lawyers.

>>52908266
I concur

>>52908779
I think both the players and GM should thrive to make the game as fluid as possible.
For example there is no need to halt the game when the GM forget to account for hunger and thirst or simplify it once or twice in a game.
Now if I make a houserule that is used against the player I will first talk about it with them (before the session). If during a session it appears that the rule doesn't work or is making the game tedious/lessfun/whatev we all agree to make a quick fix for the remaining of the session, then discuss about how to improve it.

>>52909378
I dunno why but with absolutey every GM that came with they "I dont remember the rule well but lets solve it like this" excuse is always detrimental to the player and beneficial to the monsters. Fucking always, even after I tell the GM how's the rule.

>>52909491
Maybe that GM is afraid of his game not being much of a challenge ?
I don't run "hard" games, I don't want my players to bang their heads against a wall for a whole afternoon, so really I can't understand why someone would "punish" their players because they can't remember a rule and don't want to come up with a temporary fix that everyone is fine with

>>52906928
It's a lot harder to GM than be a player, that's why, and far more ways to fuck it up.

>>52903937
You need a fucking manual on how to not be a worthless sack of shit for a human being? You don't have any sense of how not to be a dick to other people? While being in RP perma-easymode?
Good luck with that shit in your life.

>>52910643
>You need a fucking manual on how to not be a worthless sack of shit for a human being?
Some people do. It may surprise you but some people need to be reminded basic rules all the time

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>>52908266
There is one online. Which, I admit, isn't exactly 'right in the fucking manual' obvious, but it's there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgNRe76o4_8

Also, gonna go ahead and post the system agnostic guide to GMing from Gary Gygax, best known as co-creator for the popular naval wargame 'Don't give up the Ship'.

>>52910960
>best known as co-creator for the popular naval wargame 'Don't give up the Ship'.
quality meme

>>52910643
If there is advice for a GM about how to make the game enjoyable for everyone, there should be the same quantity of advice for player about the same. Hell, this shouldnt event need to be separated, it should just be "Making the game enjoyable for everyone" a section for both GMS and players.

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Anyone else remember D&D 4 fondly? I do.

>>52903937
>advice about how be a good player (or at least not be "that guy")
It's called "Don't be an attention-seeking faggot and you won't be treated like one"

>>52908674
Half the GMs you know are functionally retarded.

>>52909378
>>52909491
I actually have a rule that goes "If we can't solve the issue in under a couple minutes, I make a ruling, and if after the session, it turns I got it wrong, I make up for it next session."

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>>52903937
Not *every* fucking time.

>>52908674
If they actually got mad at you for simply reading the manual (presuming you weren't rules lawyering or anything), then that makes them fools.