So what is a good d20 fantasy game that isn't Dnd or pathfinder?

Why does it have to be d20?

>>52900633
Fantasy Craft is a bit wonky and very crunchy but still generally fun.

Depends on what you're looking for, I'm currently on a RuneQuest/Basic Roleplaying kick (classless, levelless, no-point buy)

FantasyAge also has some nice features (stunts leap to mind)

If you're of an old-school bent, Tunnels & Trolls is classic and certainly not d&d

>>52900786
Shit, none of those are d20. My bad. I guess True20 or BX would be my recommendation then. But if you're looking for something different, look for something different.

>>52900786
>FantasyAge also has some nice features (stunts leap to mind)

I love this system, it's easy, practical and fast. With the ability to add features very easily.

>>52900633
I've heard good things about Legend but I haven't tried it myself.

That said, why does it have to be d20? There are a lot of good games out there and most of them are non-d20.

>>52900633
Mutants and Masterminds. People swear by it, claiming it does D&D better than D&D does.

>>52900633
Lamentations of the Flame Princess and other B/X retroclones are technically not D&D.

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>>52900633
Hackmaster 5th Edition.

The stats are done well, no dumpstats, everything is useful for everyone.
Combat is great, especially since nobody is sitting around waiting for their turn.
With a few mechanics used in Hackmaster, some of the combats can be really fast.
Armor and shields works how they should.
Clerics are unique, each one has it's own ethos, powers, abilities, spell list, etc.
Magic is well balanced and with downsides, so no caster supremacy here.
Level scaling is also done really well.

I've been running a game with it for the past two months and it's exactly what I've been looking for. The only downside is that the game is pretty unknown so it's only a thing you can introduce to your group.

>>52901469
isnt resolution in this game slow as fuck?

>>52900740
>>52900831
>>52901155
My players are scared of other dice i am sick of 5e, what other game could i try?

>>52901554
When you say "that isn't DnD", have you ever actually tried any DnD game before 3rd edition?

Because those games are a whole different ball park.

>>52901537
Nah, because things happen simultaneously even with a large number of combatants everything is still way faster to do. Combat is a breeze compared to some of the dnd games I've played in, where a single combat could last hours.

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>>52900633

>>52901576
yeah i am an OSR fan, we like it but players feel they lack options or depth or something like that

>>52900633
>good
>d20
pick one

>>52901604
Whats good about Talislanta besides "no elves"

>>52901554
Have you considered telling your players that they are cock gobbling shits and that tonight's game will be Shadowrun (or whatever game you'd like) whether they like it or not?

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>>52901649
Frontloaded characters, degrees of success, flexible magic system, exotic non Tolkien flavor, many races available (80?), new archetypes and races are easy to eyeball.

>>52901897
Do i need to read a lot of lore to start playing?

>>52901804
I am considering getting a new group current one haves a friend that acts like a faggot when he is "bored" or his rl problems bog down the game

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>>52901934
There is a nice concise amount of lore, nothing I would see as obstructive. Talislanta is a postapocalyptic fantasy world with many magically manipulated races and the demographics are splintered. It is easy to interchange them and make the setting your own without compromising the general style. Race is generally also culture, which works in this case since you get so many.

The Player handbook 4e/5e will have about 40 races and each race has two pages of lore that includes their home, culture and statblock.

Just read those that seem interesting and you want to use.
Of course there are also region writeups, but you get a sense of the stuff from just the race entries if you want to minimize reading.

>>52901469
All of that sounds good to me, how easy is this to get into?

>>52902248
not the same guy but look at this
https://www.kenzerco.com/hackmaster/downloads/HMb_KODT_Combat_Example.pdf

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>>52901897
I forgot, every PDF is free at the website.

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>>52900633
Mutants and Masterminds. That game single handedly redeams d20 as a concept, and capeshit is the _least_ of what it can be used for.

Symbaroum if you like dark fantasy

>>52902378
how so?

>>52902474
For starters, the only dice it uses is the D20, like a normal RPG. No extra d4s or d12s or any of that other crap.
No HP either. The system works where damage makes you take a (very easy) fort save kind of thing every time you're hit, with successive damage making it harder to pass the next save, and failure reducing your condition until you're unconscious.
The powers are the best part of the whole thing, really. There are almost 100 powers, plus the additional power-feats of each power subtly changing it, plus the various ways of combining powers into two giving you a plethora of ways of making characters. Some powers can be a bit unbalanced, but the book flat out lists which powers they are and how you can rebalance them if they become an issue.

>>52902577
It needs a lot of reading to start playing right?

>>52902603
Sort of, in that it's a point-buy game so you can't stick with only your class's level 1 abilities and learn the rest as you play.

>>52900633
Legend.

>>52902603
Basically this >>52902628 but that's okay. If you're the kind of person who likes making powerful characters, a bit of reading isn't gonna bother you. If you're the kind of person who cares less about mechanics, just skim the list of powers for ones that sound cool and read up on them.

>>52900633
Fantasycraft and Symbaroum

>>52902754
Symbaroum is for pretentious fagbiscuits

>>52902783
How so? can you elaborate?

>>52902817
>Mira provides her ogre with a white shadow,
as she feels it fits the idea of a spiritual side to the
solitary giant. She describes the Shadow as “white as
morning mists over the meres of Davokar”. Trailing flakes
of ash can occasionally be seen within the mist, as a sign
of the ogre’s dawning corruption.'

Fucking golly i wonder

>>52902868
is there anything you like about the corebook, setting or rules?

I mean you are entitled to your opinion but not liking a game just because you didnt like how they did describe a pregen fluff is just shallow.

>>52902345
Looks straightforward enough for me, thanks. I'll check the sharethread.

>>52902907
I like the monster abilities and how they kind of scale. It's been a while since i read the book, but that EXAMPLE OF CHAR GEN not pregen fluff, tipped me off pretty hard.

It's also a gm doesn't roll anything and only passively participates system. So there's that.

>>52900633
well if not d20 other fantasy game with classes and all that dnd stuff?

>>52903020
fair enough, I have to admit that almost everything about queen korinthia sounded dangerously snowflake-y to me.

>>52900633
Dungeon World.

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>>52900633
>Infinity

>>52900633
13th Age

>>52900633
HeroQuest 2e is good enough for government work. Beyond the Wall, ACKS, and Shadows of the Demon Lord are simple enough and close to 5e.

>>52902577
Don't listen to this faggot, you have to line item check characters in M&M and essentially build the game from scratch to make something playable. It is only worth it if you are already acclimated to the system or know 3.X style D&D backwards and forwards.

It's only a panacea if you were brought up on D&D 3.X and want to solve the problems with that particular system.

>>52904026
>it's """only""" a fix to 3.X
A word of advice my friend: just because something is true doesn't mean it makes your argument stronger.

>>52904026
>You have to look over character sheets and put in the tiniest amount of effort when making a setting.
>This is something bad and not the norm.

Also what's with the meme about M&M=3.PF? Yeah it's technically built on the OGL, but aside form the d20 resolution mechanic and the six attributes, there's really not much that links the two, and M&M3e changed the attributes to something more sensible, dropping the similarities between it and any edition of D&D to "roll d20+mods vs DC."

>>52903964
is 13th age better than 5e?
>>52904026
which of the one you mentioned would you play for a long campaign?

>>52904107
That's really the part I love the most about M&M; it took d20 and killed each and every one of its sacred cows.

>>52904126
Very few things are _worse_ than 5e, other editions of D&D notwithstanding.

>>52901469

Tell me more about the magic system.

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>>52904416
Clerics follow vancian casting, where they pray for particular spells and get those per day. Clerics are vulnerable to attack while casting, but if their spellcasting is interrupted nothing happens except they have to restart.

Mages use a spellpoint system, where different spells have different amounts of spellpoints to cast depending on their level, and can use additional spellpoints to improve or modify the spell. Spells that you've memorized for the day cost the normal amount, but any spell you know but not have memorized you can still cast for double the cost. So you always have some flexibility, but are rewarded for having foresight and preparation.

Spellcasting for mages takes 1 or more seconds which means the mage is vulnerable to attack during the casting (If their spellcasting is interrupted, the spell is lost), and then afterwards for some amount of seconds depending on the casting time, the mage suffers from spell fatigue which limits their movement and fighting ability, and of course prevents further spellcasting.

There's basically no save or die magic, or any resurrection magic, or any temporal magic, and almost no teleportation magic.

Frankly, it's exactly what I've been looking for in a spell system to have magic be interesting but not be an "I win" button.

>>52904126
>is 13th age better than 5e?
I have only read, not played 5e, so grain of salt and all that.

I like 13th Age better because I like what it's trying to do. Despite the 4e-ish-ness of the combat at first glance, it's probably the least focussed on combat tactics of modern D&D style games. In play I've found that the combat tends to end really fast and more game-time focus ends up on NPC interaction and skill use and whatnot. It does look to me like 5e improved in these areas too, but it reads to me like more of a half measure. 13th Age doesn't really work if you don't like the narrativist stuff and it kind of forces the issue, which I like. But if you're looking for the way 3.5 tended to play out but less stupid, 5e is probably the better choice.

Velo-City
It's on 1d4chan and plays like jetset radio.

>>52902698
This. Legend seems pretty damn neat. It was made by guys who knew their way around 3e better than anyone, and their take on character progression is quite novel. Only wish I had a group willing to try it.

>>52905954
It's on 1d4chan and """"""""""""""""""""""""""""plays like"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" jetset radio.

>>52906045
Got a PDF? The name makes it sound like a huge pain to dig for.

>>52906281
Search for "Legend by Rule of Cool"

>>52901283
>Mutants and Masterminds. People swear by it, claiming it does D&D better than D&D does.

It does 3.5 D&D better than 3.5.

>>52901554
4e. Just to see all the ideas 5e ruined.

>>52901283
>>52901283
I endorse this suggestion, Herolab has a great demo software of it. 2e is more D&D ish. than 3e
They have a Fantasy supplement.

I swear by it.