How to justify wars between tyranids?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLhpJsIEQXc

>>52893358
You mean the things that already happen?

>>52893358
The species as a whole has nothing to lose?

Two hive fleets enter. They fight. The winners are now genetically superior from the fight, while the loser's biomass is added to the winner's, allowing them to increase their number.

Remember that episode of angry beavers where they shot their spunk all over the woods in a pheromone war?

>>52893403
I think that's canon, by the way.
OP do your research.

>>52893358

This >>52893403 is literally what happens by canon whenever any two hive fleets encounter.

The Valedor campaign as a whole was the Eldar trying to stop I think Kraken and Leviathan from meeting because the resultant fleet would be devastating.

>>52893358
Isnt it pretty much just to give players a fluffy reason for nid vs nid conflict?

>>52893403
But yeah this was the reason given, the hivemind tests the 2 individual fleets against one another, the superior combat organism absorbs the rest, and according to fluff NO biomass is lost (somehow)

>>52893454
>I think that's canon, by the way.

It is canon.

>OP do your research.

He should just have to lurk more. I have never once touched a 40K mini in my life and never actively pursued any knowledge about the setting excepting during times when I was trying to win an argument vis-a-vis who'd win in a fight, the 4 Chaos Gods or Carmen Sandiego (it's Carmen, by the way)

Simple osmosis from time on /tg/ has filled me in on most setting details, though.

>>52893916
>Simple osmosis from time on /tg/ has filled me in on most setting details, though.

Same here

>>52893784
>NO biomass is lost (somehow)

You realize that in a close system not losing biomass is the default and not the exception right? Earth only lose biomass when we shoot people in orbit.

You are thinking about energy.

>>52894021
>You realize that in a close system not losing biomass is the default and not the exception right?

Nno. Because inevitably at least some mass will be converted into energy and bled off. Mostly heat. It is impossible for a closed system to not lose any mass whatsoever. Even a black hole shoots out radiation that causes it to gradually lose mass, although that "gradually" is measured in trillions of years.

>Earth only lose biomass when we shoot people in orbit.

Again, wrong. Earth loses biomass all the time. Things that die have some of their matter converted into energy - again, mostly heat - and that heat gets bled off into space.

Earth isn't suffering entropy because it has an outside source of heat - the Sun - and a means for non-biological mass to be converted into biological mass, via things like the water cycle, the phosphorus cycle, plant photosynthesis, and so on.

>>52894111
>Earth isn't suffering entropy

Sorry, this statement is misleading. Earth is suffering from entropy, of course, as all things are. What I meant to clarify is that Earth isn't in any serious danger of "running out" due to the various cycles and stuff I mentioned that renew biological mass. Even then it's not perfect and we would eventually run out, but the Earth will be consumed by the Sun long before that's a problem.

>>52894111
>Because inevitably at least some mass will be converted into energy and bled off

Bullshit of the worst kind. In nature that doesn't happen unless inside a star or in freak accidents like that natural nuclear reactor they found in Africa.

Energy get released in the form of atomic bonds being broken, not actual mass getting lost.

>>52894241
>>52894111

Hell, have you ever balanced a chemical reaction in high school? The first rule to see if you got it right is that you end with the same number of particles that you started with.

You don't lose mass in a chemical reaction. That's like one of the first rules. You go from a bond with higher energy to a bond with less energy and have a release of energy or you add energy and you have the opposite.

>>52894241
Mammals and birds create their own body heat. How do you think this happens, Anon? Where do you think the heat comes from? How is it generated? And do you really think all the heat is just re-absorbed? That's not how heat works. Heat moves from areas of high heat to areas of low heat. This is why, when you hold an ice cube, it melts. What do you think then happens to the heat that went into the ice cube?

This is 8th grade biology and physics here, Anon. You're in a VERY bad place when I, an Anon who passed high school with a B+ average, can lecture you about science.

>>52893358
in essence? this:
>Hive fleet A meets hive fleet B
>The Hive Fleets proceed to eat eachother
>Hive Fleet A has a few superior biomorphs to Hive Fleet B, but Hive Fleet B has superior numbers/tactics/whatever
>Hive Fleet B is the Victor
>Hive Fleet B gains Hive Fleet A's Biomass and Biomorphs
>The Hivemind is no worse off than before, there is no change in the amount of biomass, but the total biomass is now one cohesive Hive Fleet.

>>52894298
>an Anon who passed high school with a B+ average, can lecture you about science.

I can see that as you have an extremely superficial knowledge of it.

Here is what really happens.

You get heat from the sun that is used by plants to rearrange the atoms of carbon dioxide and water into sugar and release oxigen. You start with the same particles you end with, but the light energy gets converted into chemical energy. Water and Co2 have the same mass of Sugar + O2, but the latter has much more energy inside its chemical bonds.

Then mammal and birds break that bonds in many chemical cicles to release the energy stored inside them and convert it into heat or mechanical energy.

In absolutely no passage you have a loss of mass.

>>52894298
Just to make it absolutely clear that I'm not talking out of my ass:

>Body "heat" is generated by metabolism. This refers to the chemical reactions cells use to break down glucose into water and carbon dioxide and, in so doing, generate ATP (adenosine triphosphate), a high-energy compound used to power other cellular processes [...] All organisms metabolize food and other inputs, but some make better use of the output than others. Like all energy conversions, metabolism is rather inefficient, and around 60% of the available energy is converted to heat rather than to ATP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warm-blooded

Mammals and birds are better at retaining heat and so don't lose the full 60% of available energy, but it's still not a perfect system.

>>52893358
Same reason two ant colonies would fight one another, even if the same species.

Law of the jungle. If you're better and more adapted, then you win, their biomass will be added to you, you grow larger and continue to prosper. If you are weaker, you get eaten and become part of their biomass and they continue to move on.

>>52894371
You do, however, have a loss of BIOmass.

Before the autists take over mumbling about mass and energy. Can the hive mind be jammed, like in electronic warfare style, to render whole fleets useless? Best case the critters will eat each other of hungry, worst case they will enter hibernation and eventually rot. Hell, I'm sure nurgle would love all that shit for himself but as geedubs ain't worth their salt it will never happen as it's always armless the harmless vs the forces of order and now with (top tier) waifus

>>52894468
>Before the autists take over mumbling about mass and energy. Can the hive mind be jammed, like in electronic warfare style, to render whole fleets useless?

Yes, Necron Null Fields do that.

Also the Shadow in the Warp of other fleets screws with the Shadow in the Warp other Hive fleets which causes both fleets to jam up until they match up.

>>52894387
You do realize that nowhere in that article it says that matter get converted to energy? And instead the part that you quoted says the opposite as:

>cells use to break down glucose into water and carbon dioxide and, in so doing, generate ATP (adenosine triphosphate), a high-energy compound used to power other cellular processes

Is talking about CHEMICAL energy, which is the energy of the chemical bonds and not of the particles?

You get energy from the sun, that gets converted in the energy inside sugar bonds, that gets converted in the energy inside the ATP bonds. You lose energy at every passage (you get 100 from the sun, 60 gets into sugar, 40 into ATP etc), but you neve have a loss of mass.

Try to read this two:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle

And look at how you have lots of conversion of energy, lots of loss of energy, lots of rearrangements of mass, but never a loss of mass.

>>52894504
That's interesting, it would be cool that other races developed something similar for shenanigans against them. Fuck chaos, 40k new universe endgame tiranids vs necrons when.

>>52894421
Biomass is not really a scientific term. It's an industrial term that refer to organic combustibles, but in the way GW uses it is basically a short hand for everything that can be used by a biological organism, as a tyranids hive fleets also drink the oceans, sucks the atmosfere and eats rocks and those aren't organic or biological in any way.

>>52894468
In Valedor we have Slaanesh that pushes the Hive Mind away because it was in the way of him eating lots of eldar souls.

>>52894567
Endgame is Tyranids BTFO blood angels and then everyone not important enough to be attacked by chaos, chaos reks the imperium then they and Tyranids converge on terra and fight for the the right to consume the emperor, emperor is remade somehow, and there's a sense of hope for the imperium after.

>>52894526
If you take it to the ultimate macro level, technically would not the entire universe not lose energy? Or is it bleeding off into some form of the warp irl?

Please be the warp.

Feral swarms with the lead synapse creatures out of range of the hivemind.
War game by the hivemind to test out new creatures.
Hivemind has developed multiple personality disorder after pulling some nasty evolution it shouldn't have. I mean the Hrud are pretty fucking freakish with that entropy shit, what the fuck weirdness would it need to evolve to counter that.

>>52893358
Natural selection for the most advanced strain

>>52893358
They're so butthurt that Chaos is confirmed #1 bad guy that they fall on themselves in an autistic rage

>>52893784
I think the more sensible assumption is yes there's some biomass loss but the benefits from the two fleets blobbing up together and getting the best traits of each outweighs it.

Alternatively, if they're too evenly matched or their strategies are too incompatible, they just take a few bites out of each other and go their separate ways.