/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

http://www.strawpoll.me/12812374

New thread so reposting

I'm rereading the rules on withstand for sympathetic casting. Maybe I'm missing something here but the withstand for teleporting along your sympathy should never be an issue or anything else for that matter after adept level.

The default potency of teleporting is 4 at adept level. Even a weak connection has a withstand of only 3. You only need 1 for a spell to work.

Curiosity question, and I apologize in advance, how do archmasters get around the seven fold wrath thing when fighting Caine.

>>52884995
Why must you do this.

>>52884995
This was previously discussed, over and over again. Magic is variable enough to work around it, but what if you don't want to?
Prime 6 is all you need. There's a Rote specifically designed to counteract God-driven curses & blessings, or just divine shit in general

>Entropy 4, Life 4, Matter 4, Prime 6.

Remember that the seven-fold curse targets Caine, not itself.

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>>52884995

>>52885029
Because we're not allowed to have nice things.

>>52885053
Magefags are like fucking librarians. Jesus. You're always there to answer questions.

>>52884995
By ignoring Cain and killing God.
Next question.

>>52885092
>Next question.

Oftentimes my household sponges accumulate an awful amount of buildup. What can I do to prevent this?

>>52885142
Ignore sponges kill God.

>>52885142
Wring it out throughly after use. You can also microwave it for a few seconds to sanitize it.

>>52885092
I have this itch on the back of my leg, and I can't figure out if it's a bug bite or dry skin

>>52885177
>Next question.
Now I have a fatal illness from sticking dirty sponges in my microwave. What do?

>>52885193
Find a Life Mage.

>>52885226
They're all busy taking the knot.

>>52885181

Is it localized or on other parts of your body?

Have you recently changed soaps, bedding, brand of socks, etc.?

Do you have a history of dry skin/prone to folliculitis?

Do you live in a dry or cold climate?

Do, at the very end of old vampire, how many clans were there total?

>>52885236
Listen, you can either piss off or fuck off.
Whichever you prefer.

I would prefer both.

>>52885240
It must be a mixture of soaps and hot showers.

>>52885254
>the most tsundere magefag thus far

>>52885269
I'm not convinced about hot showers. Sebum isn't that much more soluble at temperature a person would find tolerable. Localized itching on the extremities can be anything from diabetic neuropathy to a zit.

Real talk anon if this is chronic go see a real doctor.

I've never touched any oWoD. If I want to start should I just jump in at X20 cores or should I go back to revised and all that for learning the full story so to speak.

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>>52885292
I-it's not like we want the life enhanced knot or anything. B-baka

>>52884982
why its comically easy to teleport people who dont want to be teleported.

>>52885363
Sensory range?
Yes
Sympathetic casting?
Also yes but requires a smidge more prep work.

>>52885352
go further back to 1e, ignore the avatar storm and all that highway to heaven power level shit

>tfw my kindred has put a vinculum on a freshly awakened mage and nobody knows

>>52885436
Careful not to let another mage know about that. It's an easy matter to fix.

>>52885454
I'll try not to have a giant neon sign that talks about it.

Mostly the Mage and I meet up and talk. Vampire offers counsel, occasional shelter or resources, and the Mage simply talks about the goings on in Mage world.

What's the most PC/SJW gameline?

>>52885583
Beast

>>52885583
beast

>>52885583

Either Beast or Vampire.

>>52885603
>>52885604
>>52885610
Why Beast?

>>52885625
>muh oppressed otherkin

>>52885625
It's about sociopathic narcissists that punish people because they deserve it.

>>52885625
You're super special otherkin with a backstory that claims ultimate ownership over all other supernaturals (bar Demons), who torment people for their own good, and who are opposed by "heroes" who would see exactly how special and wonderful you are if they could only get over themselves.

>>52885625
dick eggs

>>52885625
http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/beast-the-primordial/

>>52885687
To be fair, while Beast sucks, the reviewer isn't much better.

>>52885745
He's mostly correct in his assessments, though, which is enough.

>>52885687
Oh my god the rest of the review is out.

>>52885363
Poor writing and planning.

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>>52885583
Beast > Mage > the rest

How are Heroes bad guys again?

>>52886365
dick eggs

>>52886365
Because the writers said so

>>52886365
heroes are autists, autists are baddies

What's the biggest threat to a Mage, and why is it Hunters?

>>52886555
It's clearly ex amish 20 somethings with smartphones.

>>52886555
Nice trips

>>52886555
>What's the biggest threat to a Mage, and why is it Hunters?

Don't you mean the biggest threat to mages are ex-Amish pacifists with smartphones?

>>52886555
hunters need to also be sleepwalkers now to remember magic in 2e?

1e a high willpower helped

wont most hunters forget shit if they even survived in the first place?

>>52886568
>>52886606
Now kiss.

>>52886568
>>52886606
>>52886651

>The Plain Supremacy

>>52886365
becuz beasts dindu nuffin

>>52886632
Yes, but any supernatural merit e.g. telekinesis, aura reading, etc. counts as being a sleepwalker.

Run of the mill hunters suck against any full splat.

>>52886555
Is there anything playable that`s even considered a threat to mages?

>>52886706
>Is there anything playable that`s even considered a threat to mages?

An experienced Demon or high Sekhem mummy against a lower level mage.

>>52886706
you had it coming, an archmage!

>>52886706
A really fucking stupid mage can be taken out as easily as a mortal, but most mages, even very young ones, aren't really fucking stupid.

>>52886759
im lying tho archmasters arnt really allowed to interfere, the worst you'd get is some form of ochemata.

>>52886788
except the ones who think that they can shield themselves from gravity with forces 2 and fly the fuck away, those mages are retards

>>52886815
You wouldn't fly, but you would float up towards space.

Bad idea.

>>52886815
Its probably dumb and wrong but I bet I could bully an ST into allowing it.

>>52886815

Although with Forces 2, they can Shield themselves from damage from all kinetic energy.

That's not too shabby, and no sells the offensive capabilities of a lot of adversaries.

>>52886815
Wouldn't that just make you immune to fall damage?

>>52886834
>You wouldn't fly, but you would float up towards space.

Shielding only protects against damage or similar effect. It doesn't negate a purview of an Arcanum.

>>52886855
Yes. You wouldn't float though. That would be a weaving spell.

>>52885029

It's a false flagging shitposter. Just fucking report him, hide the posts and don't reply to them.

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>>52886855
yes but i learned recently that some some people think

>>52885687

>Normally sympathetic villains is seen as a hallmark of good writing, the fact that he railed against it so hard made several people nervous about what the actual intent of the book would be. The fact that he compared his detractors to MRAs didn’t help at all.

Dude, what?

>>52887212
Yep, he actually did that.

What I find particularly funny is that Beast actually drew some criticism FROM left-leaning people as well, because to them the material read like something an alt-righter would put together as a scathing parody of social justice.

>>52887166
So I'm guessing you can't defend against kinetic energy or make yourself immune to fire or disease then?

>>52885687

>Beasts were still born special. Not only that but the other monsters in the World of Darkness were compelled to be friendly towards Beasts, because they were all just pale reflections of the true terror that Beasts represented. Also there were several more example beast feeding methods, including a pair of gay beasts who tricked people into hunting down hidden treasure and then killed them for their greed. Or a female beast who catfished people into laying a hand on her so she could beat them up and feel justified about it. Or a Beast that killed bad tippers.

What the fuck?

>Heroes were directly equated to Internet Trolls, Pick Up Artists, and Mens Rights Activists. A specific requirement of being a hero is having an integrity stat of 3 or lower, and if you’re actually able, somehow, to raise a Hero’s integrity to 4 or above they just… stop being a hero. So yes, every hero is specifically an asshole. Even if their integrity was brought that low due to being tormented by a Beast. The example Heroes offered as NPCs weren’t any better, barring one. A teenage girl stuck in a Coma after an attack by a Beast, hunting Beasts in her dreams trying to find her way back to her body while struggling to keep her soul alive. But since Heroes are by definition terrible people, Group A tore through her character description like someone trying to Dox their worst internet enemy searching for justification of her terrible nature.

Jesus fucking Christ.

>>52887236

What the fuck went so horribly wrong? The review linked said the guy did Demon: The Descent which was exceptionally well done and received warmly by players, yet this Beast shit reads like a tumblr blog of some demented cunt with a completely warped take on the world.

>>52887236
From what I remember it had literal victim blaming passages.

>>52887251
It's just the inevitable consequence of letting your shitty identity politics leak into your work.

>>52887250
bait

>>52887250
>So I'm guessing you can't defend against kinetic energy or make yourself immune to fire or disease then?

You can easily render your character immune to kinetic damage or fire or protect them from disease, with Forces 2 or Life 2, respectively.

The earlier Anon obviously doesn't understand the Practices. Shielding protects you from damage and similar effects, but does not cancel or disrupt the purview of an Arcanum.

>It’s not easy being the monster everyone was raised to hate and destroy. The Beast who evoured you, your Big Brother or Sister, told you to do your best to minimize the harm, to teach without causing lasting damage, and to choose targets who will spread the wisdom you grant them.

Okay, what fucking wisdom are they talking about here? They're just torturing people here.

>The world has grown too crowded; human settlements have grown too large. People's minds are overloaded, and they can't hear the lessons the Primoridal Dream teaches.

What? So, basically victim-blaming?

>Beasts are inherently evil: False That's just a vile Hero lie! A beast is only as evil as his actions, and most beasts instill fear to teach wisdom!

>Wise Beasts understand, however, that Heroes are often the people most in need of the lessons they can impart, and that instruction is more useful than violence. That being said, Heroes don't always give them a choice.

Don't you see? A Beast torturing people is for their own good!

>Beasts don't apologize for their harsh methods - wisdom doesn't come without loss.

Okay, so who teaches Beasts wisdom? Who tortures them into being oh so wise?

>I'm reasonably certain that the primordial dream doesn't contain the primal forgotten knowledge of C++ and how to use a Pivot Table. What Beasts do seems completely superfluous in a modern society.

I like the guy who's tearing this shit apart.

So hypothetical. A mage is going to physically die, and is not in a position to prevent itIs there a means to transfer his conscious into other humans to essential create a hive mind?

>>52887415
Yes. If someone has the arcana to perform the spell and you have the hubris it can be done.

You'll also lose your magic which is a fate worse than death for most mages.

>>52887473
Liches transfer their consciousness to bodies and retain their magic.

This was something DaveB had previously mentioned.

>>52887384
Yeah this is Beast in a nut shell. There is an ok game somewhere in there but it would require a lot of reworking to make it paletable.

Thou Lair rules are kinda cool and I wish I had idea how to introduce that to another game line as I did with some atavisms and nightmares. Wonder if someone here fiddled with the idea?

>>52887415
Yeah I actually think that's a Legacy or something.

>>52887473
Steal Body is a thing, anon. You don't lose your magic.

>>52887616
You mean a Tremere house?

>>52887640
The Tremere don't steal bodies, they reap souls.

>>52887662
How would you know? Unless you're a tremere double agent.

>>52887743
Fuck off, Diamond whore.

>>52887640
No no, there's some kind of Mind Legacy that's basically a hivemind. I know Dave made or used one called the Parliament of the Needle that lets the consciousnesses of Mages persist after their physical bodies die, and there's a similar Legacy. Dreamspeakers, I think.

>>52887415
Death 5, Life 3 spell from the Free Council book.
You kill someone, and steal their body.

>>52888080

HUUUUUBRIS

>>52888124
For what, wiping out some groggy half-mind?
Pathetic.

>>52888145
HUUUUUUUUUUUUBRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS

Anyone have a pdf of Rio?

>As far as Beasts are concerned, their family ties to other supernatural creatures are obvious. Even Mages, Prometheans, and Sin Eaters are kin to Beasts (And if you think about any of those for a second you should probably be going "Wait what?") Beasts can use the power of the Dark Mother to empower their kin, or use their connection to their kin to create new Nightmares.

Okay, yeah, this is pure bullshit.

>>52888273
It has been stated before that this is only what THEY believe, and it isn't necessarily true.

Not to mention that mages (not just demons) shouldn't even be minimally related to them, considering how the Supernal works.

>>52888320
Yeah, I also found this weird. Maybe the only connection is their human side, and not their connection to the Watchtowers.
Otherwise it just wouldn't make sense.

It's annoying in-general though. Even Awakening wasn't this blunt with their forced cosmological outlooks.
Beast is like an inferior Mage.

>>52888320
>>52888347
Really, if anything, mages should have more in common with Heroes. Every monster-slaying adventuring party should have a wizard.

>>52888347
>Mage actively being better than Beast regarding its core theme

kek

>>52888375
They wanted Beast to be the crossover fuckery splat... When Mage was already, and still is, the absolute best at it.

Notice how people are STILL complaining about Mage Supremacy?
Where is Beast Supremacy? Oh yeah, it doesn't exist. Because it failed at being a gameline.
Mage doesn't even focus on crossover, it's hilarious.

>tfw Beast can't usurp Mage

>>52888371

I really wish Heroes were not so 100% tailored to be anti-beast mechanically.

It would be much more fun if they didn't fall apart like a paper tiger every time they encounter a monster that is not technically a beast. Being able to invoke odd weaknesses in vampires, hunt a promethian or shatter the spells of a mage would be cool.

Sorta makes me wonder how the hell Heroes work in-setting when the horrible monster they heard rumours about is as likely to be a vampire feeding on people as anything else.

>>52888409
The thing is Heroes are at their core beast focused slashers. If they could inflict weakness on other splats they would turn into sorta superhunter

>>52888442

Yeah, the issue there is well...Heroes don't really know shit about beasts and they have this big fluff bit about how all the other splats could be hunted by a Hero/Why they hate them...but Heroes have no ability to actually interact with the other splats worth a damn.

I think my main annoyance is they went 'Look, beast is the crossover splat' then made the opposition utterly anaemic at fighting anything but the beasts as not only can't they affect you, they may spend multiple turns ineffectually trying to use something that will never work on you.

Do beasts make for good husbandos?

Should I dump my werebro for one?

>>52888469
To add to this you can dump say strix into WtF game or Indigam in Demon game. You can't dump hero into any other splat because it will result in
>point at him and laugh

They try to make BBEG for beast in Insatiables but fuckin dick eggs

>>52888469
I'm not surprised. If they're going so far as to paint Heroes as an MRA/Gamergater/anti-feminist allegory then it only stands to reason that they'd want them to seem totally pathetic and laughable to those looking in from outside.

>>52888508

It also doesn't help that it requires the Beast logic to get even more twisted and non-nonsensical. As Heroes are supposed to be the heroes who destroyed monsters in stories...but a lot of those monsters are now actual splats. So clearly either Van Hellsing wasn't a Hero or Dracula was a vampire-shaped Beast.

>>52886706
The element of surprise. In my games mages who didn't know they were being hunted have gone down to a skilled sniper with an anti material rifle loaded with special ammo.

>>52888589
>assuming the mage isn't an Acanthus or doesn't have Fate
>assuming the mage isn't an Obrimos or doesn't have Forces

Surprising a mage is easier said than done, and rifles are nigh useless.

>>52888477
Probably not.

>>52888569
A lot of what beast does is kinda redundant and the way it's described makes it also less appealing than what already exists.

>>52888603
That's where the "doesn't know" bit comes in. An unprepped mage is easy meat if you have sufficient firepower. You're not always going to have a bullet that can penetrate his daily shielding spells, but sometimes you get lucky.

>>52888477
Yes. Break that werefaggots heart. Make him cry. Then turn him into a couch and be done with it.

>>52888652
Not if the mage is proficient in Time, durdurdur

>>52888664
Why are you so mean anon? Did a werefag break your heart?

>>52888711
N-no of course n-not

>>52888726
Can you use time to fix a broken heart?

>>52888739
Sh-shut up!

>>52888797
You can't use space to make the tears go away. Nor Prime to unravel lies that founded your relationship

We need some crying gifs over here

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>>52888828

>>52888673
Not all mages are.

>>52888840
1/5 do, as do the mages that took it as their third Ruling. Or just because they wanted it.

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>>52888828

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>>52888828

>>52888797
Sell your pain to the Demon anon! Machine has no heart that can be hurt.

Forget it ever happened

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>If you don't mind the moral implications, the Progenitors could clone you a partner who can make every dream you ever had come true

what exactly are the "moral implications" of making your waifu real?

>>52889151
Mostly in that, it has no choice in loving you.
It was created that way.
It's like cloning yourselves an army of slaves, then trying to justify it through saying they don't mind their state, and don't want it to change.

Personally I have little qualm with it.

>>52889151
>"moral implications"

Thats reality deviant talk

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>>52889246
>RDs will never know that comfy feel of going home to your mansion and being greeted by your loving perfect waifu after a day of spying on traditionalist scum

pathetic

>>52889343
>watched this powerfull dreamspeaker whole month
>it was only a hobo inside fridge box
>some mage uses that fringe for experiments and box get magic aura through simpatetic connections
>hobo alcoholism made all that mystical mumbling

What would make for a good hook and general plot for a Requiem video game?

>>52884825

the fuck is a tlacique?

>>52889630
Prince disappearing and tension between covenants boiling over?

>>52888404
Isn't supremacy exactly what you don't want in a crossover game?

>>52889725
A Mexican Followers of Set bloodline that worshiped Tezcatlipoca and other Aztec gods, but was nearly wiped out by the Sabbat due to religious differences. Its surviving elders have only recently started to come out of torpor, Embracing neonates to restart the war.

>>52888636

Beast was an attempt to port the Bygone Bestiary to nwod. It failed because someone decided it should be a soapbox. Deviant is Freak Legion's re-imagining.

>>52889343

If I see that fucking technocrat one more time....

>>52889815
Supremacy is a meme that only exists if a mage has all spheres as ruling. (Calling them "arcana" still makes me think of Wraith)

>>52886632
>hunters need to also be sleepwalkers now to remember magic in 2e?
>1e a high willpower helped
Yeah, WP score doesn't do shit anymore for Quiescence, which is pretty lame.

My biggest issue with Beast is the villain splat is called "heroes" and semiotic dictate an I associate that with positivity. Changing it to "slayers" would fix it.
There'd still be lotsof other bullshit attached to the game, but at the least tge villains sound like villains

>>52884825
I have, though through a very sideways method. We had an art exhibit that featured some Aztec sacrifice tools, which housed the disembodied soul of a Tlacique. A Malkavian PC picked these up and eventually was overtaken by the Tlacique in the mask. Was fun times.

>>52890083
While this is small thing imho I kinda agree. Other splats have things that do sound meancing
>Belials Brood or Pure sure sound like nice guys. Hegemonic Ministry is clearly all about well being of everyone

>>52885352
You'll have to do pre-X20 if you want to actually have books that talk about the metaplot, as X20 is designed to be 'metaplot agnostic'.

What game(s) are you interested in? The reason I ask is, the plot is spread across tons of books in every line, so there's no real 'pick up book, see all things' in any OWoD line. If you're only interested in mechanics, V20 and W20 is okay, M20 is a clusterfuck. I'd honestly suggest picking up Revised for any of them since X20s are, in most cases, Revised with a few rule revisions (or in the case of Mage, shit torn apart from all three editions and chucked into a blender).

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>>52889942
>If I see that fucking technocrat one more time....
rude

why do you hate NWO waifu?

>>52889755

Less generic, perhaps?

Or maybe it'd be better off to let the player move around the city where the Prince rules, before just doing a disappearing act with him, in order for them to at least give a shit about things.

>>52890083

That's what people questioned when they revealed it too.
This is the origin of Matt's sperging out about MRA's.

>>52890280
How about like in Shadowrun(I do think that the way Shadowrun games looked like could be lifted wholesale to make cofd game) where you move from one city to another to uncover a plot behind your friends death. Only with more open sandbox and side quests like in Dragonfall

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Question: Can a vampire embrace two childes in a row?

>>52890407
Yeah, no reason they can't. In Requiem it'll cost them stuff (either WP in 1e or Humanity in 2e), but no cost is required in Masquerade.

>>52890281

I feel like things were going to go bad as soon as people went "Heroes? You mean like Gaston?!" and the answer wasn't "No more like traditional Greek Heroes where they do amazing things and slay monsters but whose flaws will potentially ruin everyone" but instead "yeah sure maybe but Gaston kind of sucks right?"

The "Heroes of History" kind of gets close to that first part but then the rest of it just gets wishy washy.

>>52889630
A writer who has no respect for the quality of his previous work throws it in the trashcan and starts anew, but his new work is only really a rearrangement of aspects of his older work but with less meaningful context and creative drive; the result is a cheap pastiche of genre conventions but with none of the joyful familiarity that usually carries unoriginal popcorn fiction schlock.

His typewriter is magical, and whatever he writes becomes real.

>>52890892
That sounds like a good MtAw plot

>>52890215

newfag detected

sauce of union waifu?

>>52890892

This sounds like a comic I once heard about. Unwritten or something like that.

>>52890892
>A writer who has no respect for the quality of his previous work throws it in the trashcan and starts anew, but his new work is only really a rearrangement of aspects of his older work but with less meaningful context and creative drive; the result is a cheap pastiche of genre conventions but with none of the joyful familiarity that usually carries unoriginal popcorn fiction schlock.

So NWOD creation process then?

>>52890892
>>52891740

>still this salty even though VtM is back now

>>52890892
>>52890934
>>52891740
Please try to contain your salt.

>>52892020

My aspiration is to salt the planet

>>52892238
Matter arch mastery.

>>52884848
>Supernatural Being

>Hunter

>>52890407
Virtually any number in a row, really.
Sabbat sometimes Embrace a band of thugs (after getting them loaded on drugs or pissed drunk) and sends them into the fray without making them aware of their new condition. Survivors (if any) are then either given proper rites or disposed of by next sunrise.

I don't know if here or /exg/ is a better place to ask so a flipped a coin and chose here: any news on scion or trinity?

>>52892447
They're cancelled. RichT can't pay for development due to snorting too much cocaine.

>>52888442
On a slightly unrelated note, the one thing I was looking forward to from beast is that I had dim hopes I could use whatever the heroes were to bring back old hunters. Didn't work out well suffice to say.

>>52892447

Trinity should probably have a KS this year, Scion has a tentative April or May release date, which means we'll probably see it around July to September.

>>52884848
They're all pretty shit desu

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>>52892543
>Looking forward to anything positive from Beast

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>>52891035
Monster Musume.

What level of space would i need to attempt bi-location? I imagine i'd need mind 1 to handle the two trains of thought too

>>52892702
The only positive that will come from playing Beast is an HIV test.

>>52892933
In 1e it was Space 4/ Mind 2.

>>52892933
Adept, iirc.

>>52889186
Just toss some paradox at the clones in the form of free will then.

>>52892933
Not using Time to loop back on your own time-line or move so fast your in two places at once.

I hear comparisons between mages magic systems and ars magica's system. Is that accurate.

>>52893645
sorta, ars magica has a noun verb system but is pretty similar

like create fire, move air, change stone, ars magica was/is the historical setting for wod at one point, hence the tremere are in ars magica and depending on version may or may not become vampires.

Ars magica is a superior system i think and i would love to see a modern take on it

I'm just looking for a generic magic system to rip out of it's setting and system, fiddle with a little bit, and staple in somewhere else.

Whoops. >>52893880
Meant for >>52893753

I haven't heard anything about changeling 2e in a while. Is there hope for it now that david hill has quit or is it still looking like garbage?

>>52895077
Without Hill it somehow looks worse so far. None of the previews put out by anyone else have any substance or weight to them.

Hey, so, i'm going to be playing a game of VtM soon, And I'm kinda going for a malkavian with a heavy sorta seer/medium sorta thing going about them. Does anyone have any advice? Tips for how I might play them? Thanks.

>>52895426
Elaborate on how the "seer/medium" part is supposed to work?

>>52895459
Focusing more on the "being overwhelmed with visions" sorta thing. I'm actually kinda thinking that they might perceive and deal with it as music, processing it through that. Also, they might deal with ghosts semi-regularly? Does that make sense?

Give me some help /tg/

I desperately need a pdf scan of Werewolf the Apocalypse 20th edition

>>52895426
Balls to the wall mode is Flaw: Blind, compensating with Auspex.
Be extra careful about your choice of mandatory Derangement.
If people can tell you're Malkavian in one scene of conversation, you're doing it wrong.
Don't eat or drink anything you didn't prepare yourself.

>>52895507
Are you retarded or something? Why would anyone want a scanned version of anything. The actual OCR PDF is in the mega that's in the paste bin in the OP of the thread

>>52895505
The concept sounds great, but I don't remember Masquerade at being particularly good at making Malkavians mechanically flavorful; I don't even remember Dementation as being very good. Definitely read the clanbook, though, and ideally work with your Storyteller on how to express this (they'll want to do that with a Malkavian anyway, almost certainly).

>>52895505
>Also, they might deal with ghosts semi-regularly?
Cappadocian with optional Derangement would server you better for that.

Okay, so how are you supposed to play a character that got blood bonded to another vampire?

>>52889942
>Supremacy is a meme that only exists if a mage has all spheres as ruling
I think you mean Arcana

it also exists regardless of whether or not you like it. Mages are powerful as shit. The meme only corresponds to the turds that instigate it.

>>52895549
>>52895562
Thank you! Any suggestions for derangement?

>>52895638

Whatever.

Yes they are powerful as fuck. No they aren't unstoppable engines of fuck you against all comers.

>>52895699
For flavor, anything that would leave you flailing around on the ground, babbling, with no memory of what you said thereafter; epilepsy and things that seem like it (I don't think that epilepsy counts as a derangement per se, but I'm sure you can find something similar) have frequently been culturally associated with uncanny vision.

>>52885241
12.

They were supposed to kill of the Giovanni as well but never got around to it before Gehenna

>>52895703
Not the above anon, but it really depends on how experienced the mage is.
An Adept / Master is not something even a BP 10 Kindred would want to challenge.

Trying to ambush / surprise a sufficiently observant mage is also an excruciating matter, and nigh impossible if said mage is minimally proficient in Time, or even Fate.

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>>52895753
>I don't think that epilepsy counts as a derangement per se
There should be one for fits / spasms. Also as a Kindred you can have Lockjaw without actually dying to symptoms.

>>52895703
>No they aren't unstoppable engines of fuck you against all comers

Archmages most certainly are!

So, who's with me on "mages as written should not exist in any game that isn't Mage?"

>>52895920
If you play them like PCs instead of NPC's with specific goals you're just retarded. There aren't any issues running a mage as an NPC in non mage games unless you as a story teller are some kind of fuck wit who wants to jack off your GMPCS

>>52895920
I don't even think they should be the way they are in Mage, the game would be worlds more interesting with low power level.

What would happen if you made a vozhd out of a vampire and several mortals?

>>52895962
Blood Hunt?

>>52895949
>the game would be worlds more interesting with low power level.
You're just saying that because you hate how strong they are.

>>52895895

If they have the Quintessence to do what they want, yeah. And if the rest of the Pax doesn't give them a boot party for whatever they're trying to pull.

>>52895920

It's like having a Solar in a Dragon-blooded game in exalted. Doable, but everyone needs to understand it's not a level playing field.

>>52895949

That would be "Wizard", not "Mage."

Demons and mummies can be pretty bullshit as well. Nobody bitches about them though.

If a vampire drinks more blood than he has blood points, will he vomit it up and will it make him sick in any manner?

>>52896077
Because realistically nobody will ever play them. Mages are a possibility.

>>52896048
Quintessence not needed. All of their Arcana are considered Ruling, they automatically win all Clash of Wills and their spells cannot be dispelled or countered by any means.

Quintessence is just the icing, of course.

>>52896083
No sickness, it just spills out.

>>52896048
>That would be "Wizard", not "Mage."

Mages ARE wizards, anon.

>>52895949
It wouldn't be a more interesting version of Mage, it would just be an entirely different game.

>>52896077
Because people have no idea what they can do and also have much smaller fanbase.

>>52896077
Demon and Mummy are the only two gamelines comparable to Mage in terms of "oomph", yet that won't change the fact that their respective fanbases SSSSSSUCK

>>52895920
If you don't want them in your games then that's your prerogative, anon. The books tell you not to use anything you don't like. If you're talking about cutting Mages out of the setting officially, well that's just salty.

>>52896083
They get puffy and the excess leaks from their oversaturated membranes like gory mansponges.

>>52896083
Fat vampires.

Obesity is not a joke.

Can you extract a vampire's vitae by wringing them?

Speaking seriously here.

Is the 'Mage supremacy' meme just that, or is their power an actuality? Are they really the strongest among the others?

If so, what are some reliable ways around it? Could a Pack take on a Cabal?

>>52896779
>Cabal
A Cabal makes your 1/5 chances of having a mage that happens to have the powers to no sell you to 1/1.

>>52896779
We've been over this. On paper all their powers are there and they can do basically everything the thread claims they can baring one or two exceptions that were probably bait. When someone actually plays a mage though their power is limited by the person playing them, who often don't use them to their full potential

>>52896779
>Could a Pack take on a Cabal?

A single Thyrsus Master could take on a Pack.
Or a similarly built Adept, even.

>>52896733
I guess? They can bleed through pores. I think their organs and stuff still exist though. They're not just sponges.

>>52884825
Ok /cofd/ you win, morbid curiosity has got the better of me.

What are these dickeggs of which you speak? Surely not even Beast could be that bad...

>>52897026
Anon even VtM had some really pointless gross sexual content with the Tzimisce. They want to shock you but don't let them.

>>52897026
Conquering Heroes book for Beast introduced new antagonists in form of so called Insatiables. One of them who is called Blind Man(who is not blind) that uh produces eggs that look like caviar out of his holes. If you eat them you will also produce eggs out of your holes

>>52897088

The word on the street is that character's a left over character from a writer's unpublished Lovecraftian thing that got reused for Beast.

>>52897079
The Tzimisce were crass, sure, but they weren't sexually crass

>>52897264
Could be and I honestly do not mind body horror but I think this can be done better. I kinda love ragged man and Cymothea Sanguina from Wicked Dead book for VtR are great. But this is kinda just disgusting and not creepy for the right reasons IMHO

>>52897294
There's literally content about toothed monster-vaginas.

>>52897371
It's 1st edition, they also had a buxom Nazi tranny

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Speaking of the Tzimisce and sexually crass stuff, anyone got that officially released novel where Sascha Vykos rapes some guy? Eternal Heart(s?), I think its name was.

Ok so explain a guy who never played WoD what's werewolf the apocalypse about

>>52898071
You're a really angry hippie.

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>>52896647
>tfw you'll never be loyal ghoul retainer feeding your Kindred lady until she gets all puffy then tongue bathing her as she leaks the excess blood

>>52898071
Yiffing, Wicca and ecoterrorism. Usally in this order.

Does anyone have the Rio pdf?

>>52896166

Mages are Reality Warpers at their core, always have been, always will be. "Wizards" is just an impression to make them more relatable.

>>52897088

I thought you guys said conquering heroes was bad. I just see a bunch of monsters to use.

Sure one of them shits monster eggs in order to birth some kind of supermonster and makes other people shit monster eggs by tricking them into eating them. Nothing a Mage can't fix though, right?

>>52897020
>I think their organs and stuff still exist though.
Depends on age. Recently Embraced still look mostly like human inside. The Elders are mostly just blood sponge all organs except heart atrophy.

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>>52898071

>>52898245
I'm pretty sure that most elders are uniquely mutated. And with Tsimice all bets are off. I think I recall one splat had a guy that turned into a giant vampire snake worm thing.

>>52898324
>that turned into a giant vampire snake worm thing
Let me guess - Semite?

>>52898144

I remember mostly Ecoterrorism, retarded tribal chestpounding, and a Black Fury trying to have her way with my Hermetic.

>>52898378
>a Black Fury trying to have her way with my Hermetic
Was she hot at least? And by Hermetic do you mean a Mage with the Order of Hermes or something else? I only ask because I don't know much about Apocalypse.

>>52898324
Tremlot, Setites, Tzimisce, fomori vampires, that's a pretty popular one. Elders just mummify internally because very little of their anatomy functions besides structure and sense organs.

>>52898045
Try this.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/72150186/Vampire-The-Masquerade-Eternal-Hearts

>>52896779
It depends on how they're confronting each other. In a purely combat encounter 2e Uratha could theoretically ambush mages and probably kill some of them, but it mostly depends on which side are the PCs. If the mages are the players, they choose arcana and spells to make themselves ambush-proof. If they're NPCs, who are almost never optimized for combat, the werewolves could probably kill them unless they mages have a decent Matter mage who can make silver on the spot, or a Space mage who can teleport them, say, into a low orbit. But in my experience only a douchebag ST pulls that kind of thing. But then, only a douchebag ST would ensure the pack has to fight a whole cabal at once.

>>52898547

Shit doesn't let me view more than the first few pages and to download it, it requires a credit card.

>>52898616
Not that guy, but get more tech savy its easy to get around.

So hey, anon asking about oWoD internal editions from last thread. I've tried skimming through some relevant sections from the three cores of vampire, and so far it looks like all the changes were either setting stuff or minor errata. Would I be correct in assuming its the same for the other games?
Besides that what games didn't get multiple editions? So far it looks like demon and hunter didn't.

>>52898616
It said that for me too, but after leaving the page and coming back like, 3 or so times, it let me download it without mention of credit card. I dunno, scribd is retarded.

>>52898198
Wizards are reality warpers by definition in most fictional works. They're also explicitly referred to as such in both OWoD and CofD.

Mages are wizards.

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>>52898198
>"Wizards" is just an impression to make them more relatable.
You're retarded. The Hermetics literally refer to themselves as wizards of the arts.
Perhaps you're confusing Paradigms here.

This isn't even a question if we go by Awakening where everyone is explicitly a wizard, sorcerer, magician etc.

>>52898695
>>52898794

Why get so mad over simple mistakes

>>52898828
I'm sexually aroused by large arguments caused by subtle differences in opinion or minor errors.

>>52898794
>The Hermetics literally refer to themselves as wizards of the arts.
They can call themselves what they want, doesn'y change anything.

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>>52898960
Mages are wizards.

Deal with it.

>>52898998
Oh wow you sure showed me.

>>52898960
>>52898198
>>52896166
>>52898794
You're all idiots. The proper way of speaking of Ascension Mages is the statement

"All Wizards are Mages but not all Mages are Wizards."

The Hermetics are a type of Mage, who happen to practice the western esoteric tradition and thus have the trappings of a magician. Not all Mages however do so, and one would be hard pressed to call an Akashic or an Etherite a "Wizard" except perhaps as a joke made by an Orphan for whom all magic is wiz-biz.

>>52898960
You might as well argue that vampires aren't vampires.

That's effectively what you're getting at.

>>52899021
It helps that I'm not him.
Here hold on
>>52898198
>>52898960

>>52899016
>"All Wizards are Mages but not all Mages are Wizards."
Which is exactly what I was getting at when I assumed the above anon was confusing Paradigms, which he/she probably is.

Regardless, this isn't the case in Awakening where everyone is literally a wizard with various nicknames.

>>52899046
Don't care. I responded to the wrong post. Promptly deleted.

derpity derpity derp

>>52899036
I mean, no that's not even close to what is being said, but sure whatever floats your boat.

Which is likely to come out first, hunter20 or hunter 2e?

>>52899089
>argues wizards aren't wizards
>apparently not the same as vampires aren't vampires

Whatever floats your boat

a rock isn't a rock

>>52899111
>HtR came out in 1999, so it won't even be announced until 2019 even if they're still doing X20 games
>HtV 2e was announced over a year ago

Don't be a fucking retard, anon. Neither of them are coming out.

Why bother arguing with magefags when you don't even know what you're talking about?

You're going to get steamrolled like the vampfags before you.

>>52899114
Well I can see how he thinks that Mages in Ascension aren't actual wizards. If they seem to be a wizard it's just because that's their delusion. They don't actually wield any kind of magic force, unlike in Awakening where Mage magic has a set source that is actually magical.

>>52899188
Vampfaggots go down easily, but they keep spawning for some reason.

>>52899218
You could argue that the Supernal is symbolic rather than magical.

This discussion is pointless though, as mages in both Ascension and Awakening are referred to as wizards. The former having more leeway due to Paradigm; the Union being scientists/technologists rather than occultists/magicians.

>>52899246
This guy has no face. He looks different. I suggest we pick on him!

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>>52884825
Pretty new to this. Where should I start? What is better? CoD (VtR/WtF/etc) or WoD (VtM/WtA/etc)? Which is best system? And most important: which is best setting?

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>>52899267
I'm looking for adequate 'are you guys actually fighting about this' pictures but I seem to not have many.
Should probably just head back to my old plan of leaving this place until releases happen.

>thread arguing that mages aren't actually mages

You guys really are stupid as all hell sometimes.

>http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicByAnyOtherName

>>52899302
>What is better? CoD (VtR/WtF/etc) or WoD (VtM/WtA/etc)?
There really isn't a concrete answer to that
>Which is best system?
Generally most people seem to agree that new has the better mechanics
>which is best setting?
This is the impossible to answer part, you'll get answers on both ends.

If you do pick new, start with normal mortals. If you pick old, start with whatever.

>>52899304
Shush 'person who has no face' we don't take too kindly to different folks like you!

>>52899320
>linking to tv tropes like it's an authority on anything

>>52899320
I don't have a stake in the argument but
>tvtropes

>>52899343
Nah, but it's a damn good reference to how stupid this topic is.

>>52899343
This current discussion is dumber than TVTropes.

>muh wizards aren't wizards cuz I said so
>even though the actual books disagrees with my own opinions
>disregard canon

>>52899267
>>52899341

no bully

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So, I know there was a benediction that helps a hunter see a vampire, werewolf, or what have you in its true form, but wasn't there also a benediction that dispelled illusions? Had some flavor text before its description about a priest visiting a fae king or some shit and all the wealth in the building ending up being nothing but rotting wood? I'm not going crazy here, right? I just can't find the supplemental book that has it.

>>52898198
>Sure one of them shits monster eggs in order to birth some kind of supermonster and makes other people shit monster eggs by tricking them into eating them. Nothing a Mage can't fix though, right?

Why would it be a mage's problem and why would they care?

>>52899335
Which are the general/bigger diferencies between new and old setting wise?

Am I the only one irked by how underestimated Changelings are in power wanks? They're more than enough to combat a mage on equal footing, really.

More importantly, is Changeling 2e still a thing?

What are skills every neonate should have in the V20 system?

>>52899620
>combat a mage on equal footing
Don't start this mate

>>52899620
>They're more than enough to combat a mage on equal footing, really.
No. No, not really. Really. Really not.

>More importantly, is Changeling 2e still a thing?
Second edition is stuck in the Hedge currently, recently passed over the Hill.

>>52898653
There's major overhauls to some things between say, 2nd Edition and Revised. And some lines only one one or two editions because the OWoD original run ended in 2004. For example, Changeling got a 2nd Edition but no Revised, Demon only got one edition.

>>52899607
Unfortunately I'm no expert on either setting, and I've only read a few bits of new and none of old.
Biggest probably has to be demons going from straight christian stuff to weird techno stuff and hunters going from a splat to not a splat.
Other than that general getting rid of bad meta plot and mostly new settings.

>>52899652
Not sure what I'm starting here, buddy.

>>52899673
Mages are repeatedly not at strong as people claim them to be.

Has Rose done anything so far? Or is 2e still miles down the road?

>>52899719
>Has Rose done anything so far? Or is 2e still miles down the road?
No one knows how much of Hill's work was scrapped at this point.

>>52899607
New setting cuts back on the 90's grimdark edge and the metaplot.

>>52899607
The two settings have nothing in common other than 'you're playing supernatural creatures'. NWoD are entirely different games from OWoD, different settings, not a new edition.

OWoD's setting is huge and bloated and written as a 'metaplot,' in that Book B updates events from Book A, Book K cross-references Book P, but there's TONS of backstory, written with fair accuracy from at least the Dark Ages onward, though there are pre-dark ages informations as well.

NWoD is a toolkit. It gives you default setting of 'here is how <supernaturla creatures> are, here is how their politics work, here's how their powers work' and let you do what you will, building your own setting. There are some setting books that will give you ideas, but the setting is very undefined to allow the ST to have their own way with it.

>>52899719
Mages can fuck over fairy folk wholesale, you misinformed tart ass bitch.

Jesus

>>52899623
Investigation, Alertness, Awareness, Occult.

>>52899719
>Mages are repeatedly not at strong as people claim them to be.

They really are as strong as people claim them to be, sorry.

>>52899719
>Mages are repeatedly not at strong as people claim them to be.
But they are. Seriously. Magefags are shamelessly backed up by mechanics and fluff.

And the reason why Changelings don't get much consideration is because an Acanthus or any other Mage sufficiently versed in Fate can own them.

I have plans for using the WoD system for a game that will feature the players playing mortal characters. I looked online for some templates to use for Mortal characters, and found one character creation where the creator has added a Blood Pool. Is this a regular thing? Would that be for when being for example fed on by a vampire? I seem to remember reading how a normal person has the equivilent of 10 points of blood when feeding. What other uses would it have? Like checking blood loss or something?

>>52899802
lol Ok, how exactly can they "own" them? Changeling regularly deal with fate superior to that of Mages.

>>52898246
You know, a psychologist could say a lot of things about that artist

>>52898246
Fianna in a nutshell

>>52899900
Supernal Fate overrides the 'fate' derived from the Wyrd, enabling the respective witch to re-write or pre-determine Contracts and other such whatnot. Or just nullify/no-sell right off the bat.

Changelings are hardly superior to the Acanthus for this reason. The Supernal is symbolic and supersedes much.

>>52899900
I bet you think Goku could beat up Superman

kek

Hey as long as were doing imaginary fights
Scion > WoD

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>>52899998
Well, Goku can beat Batman, and if Batman can beat Superman...

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>>52899900

>>52899623
It's a Survival roll now to heal while taking an action, one dot saves you +1 difficulty to retaining your ass.

>>52900041
Wrong. Batman beats both by virtue of plot armor, possibly at the same time with plans made specifically to beat them years in advance

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wizzerds > fairies

daveb sed so

>>52900000
For the sake of my own curiosity.

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>this thread

>>52899768
Thanks, but is there anything else?

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>>52899508

because it was in what they ate for dinner.

>>52899218

Gnostic enlightenment type powers always struck me as more "Psionic" than "Magic" in flavor but it's all the same ball of wax in either game. Just one has an objective truth interpreted in so many ways that it stretches death of the author to it's utmost limits, and the other has no objective truth and breaks it entirely.

>>52899046

Wanna try again?

>>52900220
No no, I was pointing out that I'm NOT you, not trying to claim I was.

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>>52900037
I am playing scion now and ir is pretty cool

>>52900220
Gnosticism seems far more wizardly to me.

Even history can back it up.

>>52900251
The fuck is going on with your name, anon? Sagvet? Savyet? What?

>>52900282
O got a weird surname

>>52900274

I disagree.

Regardless, whatever the objective truth of Awakening is, it strains death of the author to the utmost with how many interpretations one can make of anything and have it "work."

Especially with the kind of crappy symbolism Mage embraces.

new thread

>>52900378

>>52900384
Eh, I will side with Western Esotericism and the history it upholds regarding Gnosticism.

Feel free to have your own beliefs, I will merely join the rest of the majority regarding this consensus.

>>52900384

I feel like you're confusing both Ascension and Awakening. Only one is based on mass interpretation, the other is downright symbolism.
Both lines have always leaned towards magic rather than psychic phenomena, and will continue to do so.
Not to mention that there is a whole purview dedicated to the inner mind, both being referred to as such.

>>52899942
This seems like an exceedingly poor design decision, unless you never expect members of either splat to meet each other.

>>52901524
The games aren't meant to be played together except with the OPTION of using one splat as antagonists in another. Its not like D&D where they're expected to work together, class balance isn't a factor here.

Getting mad about OP Mages in nWoD is like complaining your level 20 Fighter sucks in Mutants and Masterminds.