/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>52850127
Found it, I'm going through it right now. I know I'm probably very late to the discussion, but... doesn't this take the Chronicles of Darkness in a very different place? I'm mostly talking about the supernatural stuff. Not saying it's bad, per se, but it looks a lot more x-men than I expected.

Are these threads really filled up with so many Americans (continent-wise) that during the day there's barely any activity, like now?

I'm new to WoD.

Why does V:TR suck so much compared to V:TM?

>>52851989
Because you're comparing games that are similar, but different. 'Suck' is an entirely subjective assessment. VtR is written with a different goal and different set of guidelines than VtM.

Where VtM from mid-1e onward ended up having a huge metaplot, with supplement books developing the world and giving chronicles, events to play through and a world where things were defined for players to interact with, VtR was written with a toolkit approach. WW stated many times before when VtR first came out that they'd written themselves into a corner with all of the metaplot in OWoD, and so Requiem was their attempt to move to a game that gave a framework and put more tools in the hands of the ST to develop their world, their own way.

Can you say, without resorting to 'they changed it, now it sucks' why you think VtR sucks?

Also obligatory MEGAs:

General Mega: https://mega.nz/#F!pBE1hYSK!DQKqkQgl8vs5mV9qaIWDnw!9BlQlJ5D

OWoD-specific Mega: https://mega.nz/#F!YIgVwQKY!ykGezjo3qppcgHXzTKuBGQ!8N5hQYpA

NWoD-specific Mega:https://mega.nz/#F!rFIDxRRK!IEzkLlroRoPwmDqtxKRMsw!PJYEwATA

General MEGA is the most updated.

>>52852074
>Can you say, without resorting to 'they changed it, now it sucks' why you think VtR sucks?
The reason I say that is because there seems to be far fewer clans in V:TR than in V:TM, and they seem less differentiated too. For example, Malkavians lose dementation, thus having no clan-unique discipline.

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This morning I stumbled uppon the thought of Anarch Tremeres, maybe a Caitiff with no thaumaturgy was my first approach but after a few clicks my attention went from that to Anarch Sorcery, specifically about this quote from the WWWiki:

>Like many systems of esoteric thought, Anarch blood magic involves searching out reclusive tutors who are often not eager to share what they know, or finding obscure tomes that are as likely to cause damnation as to bring about enlightenment

Because of the last part I'm planning to write a story (because I have no friends to play with) about a pack of anarchs in search for a tome by which they can learn Hell's Calling, a spell that evokes Rötschreck in the target. This adventure would be motivated by a pyromaniac Malkavian, who got to know about the this tome thanks to a vision-like dream that's ultimately just a trap from an older and isolated Malkavian whose predilection for his clan's blood lead him to a very solitary and psychopatic way of life, however the spell and the tome is real. I came up with this idea just minutes ago but I'd love to hear some opinions about it, along with some recommendations for the pack structure or plot lines I could use. Or just tell me if it sounds like shit.

>>52851989
For me it's the clans. New clans not being clans just kills the fun for me.

>>52852082
I came to this thread looking for the MEGA folders. Much obliged.

>>52852120
One of the stated design goals in VtR, stated way back when by the devs, was to narrow down the clans into more classic horror archetypes. So you got the aristocratic/lordly, sensual/sexual, monstrous, wild/bestial and secretive. The goal of VtR wasn't to remake Masquerade one-for-one, and I honestly wish they'd hewed farther away from Masquerade's framework than they did.

This is why I tell people going into VtR, don't look at it as Masquerade 4th Edition. Take a step back, remove the VtM overlay from your eyes, and look at it for what it is: an attempt to try something new.

Instead of 13 clans (and some bloodlines) which really hew away from classic vampire tropes (I'm sorry, but vampire wizard is barely a trope; vampires inflicted with debilitating madness is even further away; and 'vampire assassins' is not even a trope at all), it narrows it down to more broad guidelines, more 'racial identity' than 'class' after a fashion.

>>52852130
Define 'not being clans'? I'm curious, really. I haven't seen an instance of something I've played, or planned to play, in VtM that I couldn't recreate in VtR in some fashion. Clan niches are now more spread out and Bloodlines fill a ton of the old niches, while expanding on them and giving them more logic within the archetype framework.

>>52850631

Technocracy is usually pretty morally grey in my games, so are Trads. The two factions are less likely to kill or kidnap each other, similar to the interactions between the Hierarchy and Heretic wraiths in the 2e wraith comic. The war for reality is usually fought by proxy.

>>52852120

Bloodlines have that variety, and Dementation is re-introduced in the Ventrue Clanbook.

A possibility for Malkavians I've been toying around with is that Malkavia makes you immune to VII. (I always use some variant of the sleepers when I do VII, cause the other ideas either suck are are too similar to Belial's Brood).

>>52852120
Dementation for Camarilla Malks was a mistake.

>>52852130
>Re: MEGAs

You're welcome. 7chan was gold on this stuff for a long time (I even found a Mind's Eye Theatre book I was figuring no one had ever bought, ever).

What are the requirements and conditions that are required for achieving the mythical Final Attainment (6th Legacy Attainment) and what powers would it emulate? Dave mentioned that some Masters get this Attainment and that it is a prerequisite for Legacy Ascension, but having the Attainment and Ascending aren't the same thing, so these Masters could have some kewl powers.

>>52850631

What's your opinion on throwing first time Warith-players into the labyrinth immediately, that is starting Wraith off by playing Doomslayers? Will I ruin the group for further, more traditional and depressing/angsty, Wraith-games?

>tfw my entire recquiem game is accidentally me making malkavia into the malkavian madness network via a singular Malkav personality manifesting across multiple vampires whove been afflicted with the disease

Does anyone have some information in the Giovanni family branches? I'm in search for the german branch, the Koenigs. They are weapon manufracturers and have some dort of death cult according to some wikis. I want to play one after a long time away from V:TM.

>>52852215
I'm skeptical of the idea that "let's make our vampires more tropetastic" was anything other than wrongheaded.

I also tend to think that bloodlines are too small and hyperfocused to have the same effect, especially when it comes to the independent clans that act like their own sects.

>>52853663
And that's fine. I'm just saying, it provides a more broad framework to work within, since you don't have 'I am a worldwide clan of only rebels' or 'I am a worldwide clan of only artfags' or 'I am a worldwide clan of alien flesh-shapers' and you have 'I am a lordly vampire' which is more of a wide-reaching concept. Also, being hyper-focused is the concept of Bloodlines; they're explained in one of the bloodlines books that they're adaptations for some reason by a specific vampire, and they're more like families.

Definitely sounds like Requiem is not going to be for you, in general, since you can't get past the things you like in Masquerade or your conceptions on how things should work. Which is fine, everyone has their own thing they like.

I don't know of a way to explain it better than above.
Clan = Race
Bloodline = Family
Covenant = Political/Societal/Religious Affiliation

It's written differently from Masquerade's sects and clans because of the desire to do something different from Masquerade.

>>52853735
I'm skeptical of this, since the Gangrel, Nosferatu, and Ventrue aren't really that different from their Masquerade counterparts. The Daeva are a lot like the Toreador with their focus shifted to sex instead of art, and the Mekhet hope that you come up with other occult things for them to investigate, since the Mekhet aren't that interesting themselves.

(Also, I'm not the same person you started this conversation with. And I like a lot of Requiem's crunch and the lack of generations, even the lack of metaplot, but I hate the covenants and am skeptical of the clans.)

>>52853829
Yeah, they aren't super-different other than what their detailed focus is. The devs stated many times that the concepts of the five clans were meant to cover five, very broad archetypes (lord, monster, beast, sensual, mysterious). You can be skeptical but that was the stated goal.

Would you ever see, say, a trailer park owner as a Ventrue concept in OWoD? Probably not. But that's an example in the NWoD Ventrue clan book, because they are the 'lords of the night' not just Blue Bloods. Nosferatu are inherently creepy in some way, not meltyface (though artists always forget that). Gangrel are relatively unchanged though they don't have physical manifestations, their minds are affected by their bestial nature.

The similaries in those three clans are why I say I wish WW had hewed farther away from Masquerade than they did, but they didn't want to risk alienating all of their players.

I'd suggest to read the Clanbooks for Requiem if you want to get some deeper insight into the clans.

And that's cool, you can use Requiem's mechanics with Masquerade's metaplot and such through the Vampire Translation Guide.

>>52852120
>The reason I say that is because there seems to be far fewer clans in V:TR than in V:TM, and they seem less differentiated too.

To many of us, this a a great feature, not a bug, in Requiem.

As another Anon stated, Requiem is not meant as a new edition of Masquerade, and should not be viewed through such a prism.

While certain similarities exist, largely with nomenclature, one of the goals of Requiem was to remove the bloat that existed in Masquerade. Besides the obvious metaplot, the number of clans and bloodlines was cut down to simple archetypes. The lessened reliance on many racial and ethnic stereotypes was also welcome.

>>52854313
Plus bloodlines can add any sort of variation/difference you want.

>>52853180

Basically, IMC, Dementation is a cure for VII. So a city "falling" to Malkavia is a result of extreme, prolonged use of Dementation to "purge" VII once the Malkavians put 2 and 2 together.

This has the side effect of making the city's kindred go bugfuck, possibly permanently, but you know what they say about omlettes and eggs..

Ignoring the metaplot and such, how much would the world of Requiem change if the Lasombra and Lasombra were introduced to it, in their equivalent of modern nights, with all their unique Disciplines and weaknesses? How would the Requiem clans and covenants react to them?

>>52853910

Some nossies are still meltyface, but I usually go with a more "Tzimisce" approach

>>52854313

Do the Directional Courts make anyone else think of KotE? Kuei-Jin are changelings now.

>>52855317
Obtenebration was written into requiem 1e, it was nerfed alot but its there, no lasombra though.

Depending how how they acted then they would get the appropriate reaction? The translation guide might also have write ups for this. Have you read it? I have but a really long time ago so cant remember

>>52855317
oh look theres that ventrue bloodline that likes fucking shadow tentacles....

>>52855445
Wouldn't it be a Mekhet bloodline?

>>52855462

was trying to trigger vtm peeps by saying lasombra are just ventrue wierdos...

>>52855317

>if the Lasombra and Tzimisce

Whoops.

>>52855401

Yeah, I know about that. There's also some kind of watered down version of Vicissitude as well.

>Have you read it?

Nope. Is it included in the megas that have been posted in the thread?

>totally new to the system my gm is running, want to make Julius Belmont as a vampire hunter
>whips are shit
>decide to use a sword instead so I can do a little damage
>it doesn't do much compared to guns and whatever I'm fighting has defense, which lowers pools to where I might as well just use my subpar firearm pool instead

Is there ever a time or reason to invest in weaponry, really? As a Normie character with a few benedictions, it feels like melee is a death sentence against anything past a fat cashier. Or am I missing something? It's going to be hard killing a Dracula if this keeps up.

>>52855317
Lasombra and Tzimisce's impact are basically nothing special among vampires, fun as they are. Amoral inhuman manipulators are standard fare and the world makes space for them like any other amoral inhuman manipulator vampires.

>>52856127

Yeah, but Obtenebration and Vicissitude go so much beyond what Requiem clans got.

>>52856125
Well, it IS hard to kill Dracula with a whip. This is represented in both the source material and the game you've picked up, sounds like. Maybe those early Castlevania games would have been easier with actual strong weapons.

>>52856168
Yeah don't you have to hit him with that whip like 1000 times to kill him while you die in only a few hits?

>>52856125
IIRC vampires are weaker to melee than to guns.

>>52855967
>Nope. Is it included in the megas that have been posted in the thread?

Yes it is, the nwod one
NWoD-specific Mega:https://mega.nz/#F!rFIDxRRK!IEzkLlroRoPwmDqtxKRMsw!PJYEwATA

>>52856168
Well alternatively, it's made possible due to the whip in question being the legendary Vampire Killer wielded by a Belmont, which is not just a mundane whip anymore like anon is trying.

>>52856189

Thanks.

>>52856293
That's what I used my Sun Whip in a werewolf game for once. I'm pretty sure its one of the sillier anti-vampire weapons.

>>52856187
Not in 2e

>>52856156
Really? Not original responder but I've never played VtR. Is it massively lower in power level than VtM?

>>52856513

It's... different. They got their own things going for them, I'm not gonna go saying they're shit because they're not, but just the lengths Obtenebration alone can go to is fucking insane, like blotting out the sun. That said, I have no idea if there's an Abyss in nWoD and if it there is, if it's anything at all similar to what it was in oWoD.

>>52850631
>Has the Technocracy ever been featured in one of your games as anything other than antagonists?

Yeah, I've ran Technocracy games. Most of the players tend to be god awful at it because they have no idea how to do anything science-y at all. Not enough people watch Scifi anymore. I blame the death of Star Trek.

>>52856187
>>52856399
>>52856125
There is literally no reason to use melee in CofD. Guns are vastly superior in every way, despite being wielded by superhuman monsters, swords suck dick.

>>52856569
A blood line that gave Vampires powers over the Mage's Supernal Abyss would be mildly amusing and Paradox generating.

>>52856605
The only reason I ever ran into in any game line to not use guns is because I hadn't acquired a magic one yet that would work in the Hedge.

>>52856577
Star Trek was hardly about that kind of science, more like science related to studying cultures different from your own. It just took place in a setting of advanced technology. Scotty moments were the Duplo of physics science - flip the engine upside-down and it can go faster backwards, then add banana peels and it'll slip laterally at lightspeed - and you as a GM wouldn't let them past I'm pretty sure.

>>52856688
Magic is stupidly useful in CofD.

Magic>Guns>Melee

I think Guns would lose a lot of ground if Defense was still applied to them. Or if diving for cover was more of a thing for defense. Seriously, it's sad that melee weapons are useless in the hand of a vampire.

>>52856711
>Scotty moments were the Duplo of physics science - flip the engine upside-down and it can go faster backwards, then add banana peels and it'll slip laterally at lightspeed - and you as a GM wouldn't let them past I'm pretty sure.
On the contrary, technobabble is literally supposed to be how Technocrats explain their paradigm. It's all hypermatematics, space folding, advanced physics, and primal energy theory. Least for the Void Engineers and ItX.

NWO is against that kinda shit, but the NWO are the worst sort of people.

>>52856713
The Magic Gun angle is going to be less useful in Changeling 2e, more than a few kiths allow you to use defense against firearms and a few more give armor. It feels like its really easy to just make combat go on forever.

>>52856755
I've never had a combat in CofD last longer than 2 rounds. Ever.

Then again, I play more WoD than CofD, but it goes by in like 6 seconds in CofD at most. Normally with whomever getting the surprise winning. Which is not how combat should work between Supernaturals in my opinion.

>>52856711
>implying Technocracy don't get from place to place via banana engine drifting

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>Mage sensory range attacks ignore all Defense and armor
>Can inflict aggravated damage at range with an Arcanum rating of only 4

>Mage combat supremacy

>#FearSwoleJawa

>>52856805
Too bad you guys spent so much time establishing that Mage is about omnipotence where you can do whatever you want at will, otherwise we might actually care about what you do with its mechanics in a brawl.

>>52856837

What member of any splat would have a chance against Swole Jawa in melee combat?

>>52856688
>>52856605
Man, between that and the one *teleports behind you and instantlygrapple bites your holy ass* power the vampires have, I really made a huge mistake with this character.

>>52856919
You win, who cares? Who would even be interested in hearing how the Mage wins everything forever?

Have people forgotten that (non-magic) guns run out of ammunition?

>>52857017
Unfortunately that's only an issue if you fire your gun on full auto or you're fighting a dozen guys some guy with an ungodly amount of tanking.

Other than that, ammunition isn't really much of an issue, and frankly, you have bigger concerns when ammo becomes a problem.

>>52857017
The game is usually taking place in America. The roads are paved with ammo.

Hey guys, i updated the Pastebin a bit, just included links to 1 or 2 more Megas and some VTES stuff.
https://pastebin.com/7HiVphFm

>>52857069
>>52857083

Realistic gunfights are nothing like they are on television and the movies. Do you ever wonder why in many reported police shootings, multiple officers fire multiple dozens of rounds, and often there are few actual wounds, with sometimes no shots actually hitting their mark.

Ammunition capacity, ease of reloading and similar concerns matter, at least if you're attempting a non-cinematic style of play.

Also, if you've ever faced a Uratha in Gauru in 2e, you'll appreciate having lots and lots of ammo.

Hey /CofD/ I have a rules question.

When the third dot of Professional Training says "take two Specialties in your character’s Asset Skills" I'm assuming it means you get two specialties total that can be in any of your Asset skills. But could it mean you get two specialties in EACH of your asset skills? Just need a clarification

>>52857359
This is a game that has combat mechanics, it's not totally freeform or something. And if it was, it *would* be trying to ape a TV/movie fight scene, not reality.

>>52857397
You get 2 specialties for any of your asset skills.

>>52857359

In the upcoming Signs of Sorcery for Awakening, DaveB indicated that the book will include expanded rules for making magical objects, including endless ammo clips.

http://theonyxpath.com/signs-of-sorcery-mage-the-awakening-open-development/

"Chapter Three: The Crafter’s Trade covers the persistent magical effects created by magic within the known Practices (as compared to Chapter Five, below). We cover all of the perfected metals and their uses, only partially listed in first edition, and do a victory lap through other perfected materials, too (perfected fire! Perfected water!). Thaumium is back, along with a few other alloy spells. Enhanced Items are next, the largest set of spells in the book, covering everything from endless ammo clips to Forces spells to make devices function without power. The chapter then expands on the rules for Imbued Items, including spells allowing mages who don’t yet have Prime 4 to store spells temporarily in items as “charges”, spells to allow mages to Imbue living beings, spells that alter how relinquishing spell control works and cursed items (a fan-favourite topic in Tome of the Mysteries.) Finally, the chapter discusses the social aspects of magical item creation among the Awakened, and gives Merits so your character can tote any of the goodies described herein."

>>52850631
>the Technocracy
>antagonists
Pick one. They are objectively the good guys of the setting.

File: Immortal The Gathering 20th Anniversary Edition.pdf (3MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

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Have this.

>>52857182
thanks faggot

Would Zagreus (Daeva Methuselah from Night Horrors: Immortal Sinners (pg. 128 - 132)) be a match for a Master?

Are there any other Methuselahs that we know of in Requiem?

Alright another history question. Some of the oWoD lines went through their own internal editions, the most I've seen I think is 1e, 2e, and then revised. What sorts of differences did these editions bring? Were they major changes or mostly stuff like simple rules updates and minor setting alterations?

>>52855967
The translation guide doesn't rewrite the disciplines though. THere's some minor listing of how some powers work, but mostly it covers costs and dice pools. It doesn't rework everything completely.

>>52856156
>>52856156
And Requiem wasn't built to be Masquerade 4th Edition and include those, frankly, way overpowered and unthematic disciplines. The fucking origin of Vicissitude is the Brian Lumley Necroscope series.

>>52856805
'Only' 4. Holy shit, is every mage in the world a quintuple master/sextuple adept?

>>52858237
Sadly the weakest Part of the conversion guide is Blood Potency and Generation. Without Generation being meaningful it sorta makes the OWoD politics a bit nonsensical.

>>52857397
2 specialties total divided over your Asset Skills, not 2 specialties in each one.

>>52858340
That reflects more badly that it's an integral part of Masquerade than it reflects badly on the Conversion Guide. And I'm saying this as a Masqueradefag.

>>52858330
Disciples and Adepts are the most common groupings in Mage society, yes.

>>52858253

you act like that's a bad thing

>>52858610
Eh? I find Requiem to be really good, and I don't lament the loss of stuff like Fishmalks, Vicissitude and the whole alien aesthetics, or more of the crazy stuff from Masquerade. It's different, and I like that i can make my own crazy origins up, rather than having every vampire know *winkwink* Nod Caine ANTEDILUVIANS!! *nudgenudge*

>>52858149
Zagreus has a Blood Potency of nine, yes?
I'm fairly certain that even a Master with a Gnosis of five will outmaneuver him or thoroughly end the ancient vampire upfront with an Unmaking Praxis / Rote, or some such. Or not even.
It's also fair to note that The Dark Decree is quite powerful even for a Devotion, but the requirement is ludicrously high even so.
Comparable to Fate Patterning, four dots.

Zagreus is also really old and really lazy, living such an entropic lifestyle won't give him the necessary cunning to deal with a true wizard, especially one proficient in Fate. How would he even react to someone capable of nullifying the one thing that has determined his multi-millennial existence?

>>52858682

Yeah, crazy origins is great and all. but Vicissitude was awesome.

>>52858219
They aren't internal. As a game they all went through it except Wraith and Changeling.

The changes are mechanical to the system and moving along the metaplot. There's 4 editions as is, 1e, 2e, Revised or 3e, X20 or 4e, and the upcoming 5e.

X20 lines are metaplot agnostic.

>>52858682
>It's different, and I like that i can make my own crazy origins up, rather than having every vampire know *winkwink* Nod Caine ANTEDILUVIANS!! *nudgenudge*
You mean that thing that wasn't part of the line until Gehenna came out? There were a bunch of other explanations for vampires until Gehenna came out. See the shit about Beckett.

>>52858886
There was a whole lot of shit about the Antediluvians before the Gehenna book. They're featured in tons of the books, one of them is integral to the creation of an ENTIRE FUCKING CLAN, some of them are active in scenarios set in the Dark Ages, tons of other stuff. Don't act like 'oh, look, suddenly ANTEDILUVIANS!' in the Gehenna book.

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>>52857629
>>52850631
I play the Technocratic Union as sympathetic antagonists. They want to keep vulgar magick off the streets and avoid public incidents, so they tend to leave most Mages alone as long as they don't end up on the news or are part of a major power structure the Technocrats think they can take down.

The most powerful Mage in my local setting [California] is a Hermetic who actually has contact with the the local head of the Technocracy. The latter called up the former when Excalibur turned up unexplained at the local museum.

I have Men in Black as usually normal humans with superior technology with a few Enlightened thrown in, instead of clones or slaves. They'll talk down Mages, send in NWO to make deals, and generally act as semi-reasonable authority figures [as long as you aren't casting spells on Main Street].

For those few who DO cast spells on Main Street, I have Hit Marks, which I've modified again from clones into basically 22nd century SWAT. Cyborgs in power armor who show up in black helicopters and whose sole mission is neutralize the anamoly with extreme prejudice. Luckily my PCs have kept their noses down and haven't run into these yet.

Also the metaplot never happened, so the Traditions and Technocracy are each more then powerful enough to potentially destroy the other, at the risk of making the war for reality a public affair. Or as local Hermetic Magus puts it "We don't want wizards fighting cyborgs in the streets."

>>52858979
You do realize that most of the technocracy is just Extraordinary Citizens with notMagic equipment right?

>Also the metaplot never happened, so the Traditions and Technocracy are each more then powerful enough to potentially destroy the other, at the risk of making the war for reality a public affair. Or as local Hermetic Magus puts it "We don't want wizards fighting cyborgs in the streets."
Oh nevermind, you just don't understand the point of the Avatar Storm at all, nor the Ascension War

http://www.strawpoll.me/12812374

>>52859133
1. Thats literally what I just said for how I run MiB.

2. The Avatar Storm is completely dogshit and the single worst part of the lore. Removed is immediately.

>>52859160
>2. The Avatar Storm is completely dogshit and the single worst part of the lore. Removed is immediately.
It's the best part of the fucking lore since they game is a shit hole without it and the Traditions become a bunch of spiraling morons without it.

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>>52859197
Mage is a Pulp as shit game about kung fu masters and mad scientists with literal ray guns and jet packs teaming up with Hermetic Wizards and Faith Healers to go fight Men in Black.

All the Avatar Storm does is try and tone that down and make it more reserved, which runs entirely counter to the whole theme of the game.

If you want a more 'serious' game, play Awakening. I meanwhile shall be fighting fairies on the Moon.

>>52858979

"Well, you see, Agent Jones, a bunch of zombies or whatever those things were showed up and started eating people at the mall, so we had to get a little creative. Sorry about the mess."

>>52859133

Avatar storm and associated bullshit has served its purpose and passed, resume deep space ops and roasting woofs in the umbra.

>>52859266
>I meanwhile shall be fighting fairies on the Moon.
>Not nuking faeries from your spaceship.

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>>52859285
>Not riding into space in your truck and then shooting lightning at the fairies.

>>52859197
>Avatar Storm
>It's the best part of the fucking lore

Funny how the vast majority of magefags disagree with this assessment. It even led to death threats being thrown at authors.

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>>52859329
>TFW some guys truck is more powerful than your Star Trek ship.

>>52859266

>Implying awakening doesn't have Kung-Fu masters, Mad Scientists and Faith Healers with the Hermetics going to beat down a bunch of much less sympathetic Illuminati-types

So, I've never played or even read any old except for hunter. What's the technocracy and whats the avatar storm?

>>52859358
>Mad Scientists
They don't really work well in awakening. Its one of the main things I don't like about the setting.

>>52859359
I fucking hate ignorants like you.

>Technocracy
PRAISE SCIENCE

>Avatar Storm
The shitstorm which cut off access to the Deep Umbra. All those exotic wizard worlds are now impossible to reach.

>>52859391
>PRAISE SCIENCE
That doesn't exactly tell me much, are they the good guys, bad guys, what sorts of goals and methods do they have.
>The shitstorm which cut off access to the Deep Umbra. All those exotic wizard worlds are now impossible to reach.
I'm going to assume the Deep Umbra is kinda like the supernal then? Or is it something else.

>>52859391
>I fucking hate ignorants like you.
Its not really their fault its harder to run games for them. Nobody wants reading assignments with their fun.

>>52859359
Ultra-short version.

In Mage the Ascension the local laws of physics are determined by the generalized Consensus among all people living in that local area. So the world used to be flat, the sun used to revolve around the earth, and dragons used to be real.

There are a group of people who can force their own view of reality onto that local mesh, called Mgaes. If they enforce a view of reality counter to what the majority thinks is possible, it causes Paradox, a kind of backlash.

In the 1400s a group called the Order of Reason was founded, which in the 1800s became the Technocracy. They are responsible in large part for the rise of "science" which is really just a logical law-based worldview created by the Technocrats and normies over time, and "technology" which is really just a kind of sorcery that's been mass-produced to work for everyone.

They try and keep "magic" out of the public eye and continue getting mankind to believe in science, reason, and progress. They're also really controlling and their plan MIGHT destroy the universe if it succeeds.

The Avatar Storm was an event that severely limited travel between the Earth and the Umbra [Spirit Worlds and also Space]. Before the AS, Mages could piss off between realities and deep space easily, now its much harder.

Those who like Mage being more over-the-top hate the AS and ignore it [like me], those who for some reason want a game about wizards and ray guns to be sophisticated like it.

>>52859414
>That doesn't exactly tell me much
It tells you everything, shut your pooper.

>I'm going to assume the Deep Umbra is kinda like the supernal then
Fuck off and read a book, they are nothing alike except for the necessities to even exist in their respective zones.

>>52859374

They do, but technocrats don't.

>>52859133

The Avatar storm served it's purpose (wiping the board clean) but was only left in because of crywolf werebabs.

>>52859471
>They do, but technocrats don't.
The closest thing I've found in the books was Alchemy, and its only kinda science-y.

>>52859439
>Those who like Mage being more over-the-top hate the AS and ignore it

AKA 90% of the entire fanbase.

>>52859489

Free Council, Threnodists, Transhuman Engineers, etc.

>>52858718
Is a 5 Gnosis mage really enough to tackle a BP 10 vampire though?

>>52859534

Yes but the problem with vampires is that there are so fucking many of them

>>52859530
>>52859374
>>52859358
The problem in Awakening is that although you can play as a mad scientist or kung fu master mage, the archetypes aren't blended.

In Ascension you can play as a genuine mad science or asian kung fu master, and that IS your power. Your being a 'mage' just means your a willworker whose reality is defined by that idea.

In Awakening, you're instead a Mage who is ALSO a kung fu master, or ALSO a mad scientist. Your magic is always going to be a separate discipline from your other archetype.

At best you can play as someone who uses magitek of a sort, and make it aesthetically like mad science, but its really not the same. For better and worse Mage Magic in Awakening is its own thing, and any other abilities you have are not necessarily synchronized with it.

>>52859534
I hate you so much.

>>52859534
Yes. Fuck off. All you need is an ES Unmaking.

>>52859530
The closest thing to using science or technology that isn't just identical in form and theme to magic is The Austere, and even that doesn't give any sort of 'mad science' vibe at all.

>>52859582
Why hate? Why not love instead?

>>52859439
That's a touch more helpful, thanks. To go any deeper I'd probably have to sort between one of the hundred and one books out there, like why they view science as so worth following or whatever.

>>52859580

Law of Embodiment?

>>52859534
In new? In new there aren't even disciplines beyond ten are there? Vampires kind of get the shiv. Hell everyone does, aren't mages the only guys who actually have rules for that sort of power stat 6+ play.

>>52859580
I'd hold of judgement until we see more about how magical crafting works in signs of sorcery. Right now I have plans on setting up a secret sanctum on the dark side of the moon and having my players travel there a la Jules Verne.

>>52858149
Any vampire can 'beat' any mage. Just walk away, wait 80 odd years and congratulations.

>>52859634
They do for 1e although DaveB has mentioned it wouldn't take much to update Archmastery rules for 2e.

Hell Archmages are now stronger if anything compared to 1e.

>>52859634
>aren't mages the only guys who actually have rules for that sort of power stat 6+ play

Yes, and it's clearly going to stay this way. It always made more sense for both Mage lines to have this luxury. Handing out super-Disciplines to vampires was a huge mistake back in Masquerade.

>>52859650
>assuming the mage isn't already a lich

What's worse? Magefags or Archmagefags?

Is there a difference?

>>52859617
>Why they view science as worth

Well the ultimate metaphysic of the setting is that what the majority believes to be true, is true. Originally the Order of Reason set out with a few goals

1. Protect Mankind from the supernatural
2. Improve the lot of the average person through technology.
3. Explore and catalogue the universe

Generally noble goals. They became Leonardo da Davinci and Bacon and Kepler-types and convinced mankind that much of the supernatural wasn't real [which killed much of it through believe-physics] and killed personally what wasn't taken care of.

The reason they did this was because for most of history, wizards were dicks who used their powers to do as they pleased. To say nothing of vampires and werewolves.

However as time went on, the Order came to care less and less about those original goals, and more about controlling people. That is where they become morally grey.

On one hand, they invented capitalism and toilet paper and iPods [or made possible the worldview where normies could create those things], generally making the world a better place.

However they're also creating a world that is dry, boring, safe, and meaningless. The Technocrats invented the 9-5 office job. They're invested in making the average person's life as safe and predictable as possible. This is good for most people, but it also means taking the freedom to choose something ELSE, something more dangerous out of people's hands.

The end result is that even their ability to pitch science to the masses slows down, as the common people just become too complacent to care. Look at the total LACK of interest in the space program. Look at the moral opposition to stem cells and cloning. Look at the stalling of AI developments, and how the singularity keeps getting pushed back several decades.

The Technocrats want a world that is safe, predictable, and makes sense, and that is what they are creating, for better or worse.

>>52859680
In that case just wait for some other mage to murder him for being an abomination.

>>52859706
No one cares about your petty sciences and oh-so logical reasoning. BE GONE FILTHY BEUROCRAT.

The new theme song for and "of darkness" setting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yyWs90usS0

The future is an awakened boot stomping on a kindred face forever and ever

>>52859711
I don't think being a Lich is explicitly forbidden in Mage society like being a Reaper or Tremere. It's frowned upon because it's a hell of a slippery slope but if you keep it on the down low you should be fine.

>>52859494
>>52859340
People were just mad their favorite overpowered splat got nerfed

>>52859534
There he is. There he goes again. Look, everyone! He posted it once again! Etc, etc.

>when magefags come out of their holes and proceed to shitpost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

>>52859729
I try and not think about it as a real world moral statement and just view it as setting lore, because as setting lore its really cool.

>>52859768
Nerf is a relative concept in this instance.

>>52859768
>got nerfed

That's not what happened at all, more so a much more limiting / limited setting.

>>52859759
>Mages
>Not paranoid as all hell
>Not looking for an excuse to kill anything they think might even remotely be a threat
You keep doing you, you filthy soul eater

>>52859793
>>52859768
>Nerfing one game in a way that doesn't in any way make crossovers with different games more viable, it only annoys the people playing the first game

AS is shit. SHIIIIIIIIT.

>>52853910
>Would you ever see, say, a trailer park owner as a Ventrue concept in OWoD?
Yes, that's entirely possible. It's a nice domain to claim, and the right moves could leave its inhabitants entirely beholden to you.

>>52859908
Why would an OWoD Ventrue own a trailer park? It's possible, sure, but goes against their fluff. They're all about dignity and sophistication and being at the top of society. I would think they would own gated communities or businesses and other things like that.

And what use would the have for trailer people? Unless they had low class blood as their defined taste for their clan weakness or whatever, but I would imagine they wouldn't be too proud of that. And I don't think they would ever embrace any of the inhabitants either.

>>52859578
>he problem with vampires is that there are so fucking many of them

Vampire are little more than undead, blood-drinking, misery-inducing blasphemous cockroaches. That's why it's imperative that you burn everyone you meet. Let no leech escape, lest they make more of their kind.

-Every Obrimos Ever

>>52859650
>Any vampire can 'beat' any mage. Just walk away, wait 80 odd years and congratulations

Mages have apprentices, allies and friends, and no one, mage or otherwise, believes vampires are trustworthy or friendly.

>>52859650
You realize it only takes Life 2 to become unaging as a Mage right?

>>52860294
For one thing, not all Ventrue Embrace thoughtfully (no clan can claim this, actually). Secondly, everyone has to start somewhere, and not only the upper classes are useful.

>>52859471
>The Avatar storm served it's purpose (wiping the board clean) but was only left in because of crywolf werebabs.
Are you saying the werewolf players were the ones that caused it to be left in there?

>>52860359
Such a spell would be easily dispelled, allowing your age to catch up with you.

This has been mentioned time and time again. Immortality isn't easy in Awakening, unlike Ascension.

>>52860451
I suppose it would be unless you spent ages to actually weave it into permanency. Even then, you can just rewind your age eventually with Time or just make yourself immune to aging with Life.

You just need a spell that changes you physically, and not magically.

>>52860394
I didn't say they embraced thoughtfully, just that they wouldn't embrace lower class people. You also don't have to start with a trailer park when you're one use of Dominate away from getting a hefty loan from a bank or you can use social connections, and how would a bunch of trailer park people be useful to a Ventrue?

>>52860451
Does it catch up with you? I was under the impression you'd just start aging at that point.

>>52860451
Immortality is easy.

Immortality without consequences or major ethical issues isn't.

>>52860451
Why would your age catch up with you? You aren't suspending your aging with Time, you're directly affecting your body to stop aging. I would imagine that you would just pick up from where you left off.

>>52860485
Yes, but the common Practices aren't enough usually. Immortality (becoming a Lich) usually involved fucking someone over in the process.

>Even then, you can just rewind your age eventually with Time or just make yourself immune to aging with Life.
Still not enough, unless they happen to be Attainments.

>>52860547
>Not living in a pocket dimension outside of time and space containing your secret ocean sanctum where you reside in your immortal lobster form. Only interacting with the outside world by possessing the bodies of your sapient golem servants.

Do you even mage?

>>52860738
Mage is all about being creative. Good job not being in the majority.

>>52860359

Explain how you stop aging with life 2?

>>52860794
Faggot thinks "shielding" can protect him from aging.

I fucking HATE all these retards which think shielding is a near universally applicable "avoid thing I don't like" spell.

>>52860399
Sounds like it. It's stupid and clearly not the case, but it sounds like it.

>>52861277
Shielding works by removing an effect on you, such as gravity. You can use shielding to remove gravity and begin to float around since Mage uses rules that vastly simplify things like that. Shielding against aging would be entirely under the paradigm of the Shielding rules as it's quite clearly an effect of Life.

It literally says Shielding protects against disease you moron.

>>52861403
it might stop you catching a disease but it doesnt remove it once you have it..

Holy shit, "shielding" to remove gravity....priceless

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>Shielding against Forces for floating in place due to the lack of the effect of gravity
>Shielding against Forces for hilarious slip-and-slide fun all year round, on all surfaces
>Shielding against Death for immortality, and pissing off the Grim Reaper
>Shielding against Prime to avoid 'truth'and force someone into a perverted anti-existence
>Shielding against Fate to stop anything interacting with you
>Shielding against Time to stop aging
>Shielding against Mind to stop memes
>Shielding against Space so people don't grow to like you
>Shielding against Matter, so objects just deviate around you
>Shielding against Forces and Time to derive someone of rhythm
>Shielding against Death so the Vampire hits the air in front of you like a brick wall
>Shielding against Forces to remove the strong nuclear force and cause a horrific death
>Shielding against Forces to turn someone into a black body, causing them to eventually melt
>Shielding against Forces to turn someone into a white body, causing them to eventually freeze
>Shielding against Matter to stop air going into their lungs
>Shielding against Life to kill all your gut flora and fuck with your digestion
>Shielding against Forces to render someone incapable of deriving Vitamin C from sunlight, and causing health problems
>Shielding against Prime so you can't tell which of these are bullshit, and which aren't

Truly, Shielding is the greatest Practice

Anyone played ANYTHING relating to Kindred of Ebony Kingdom? What was the content like? Even as an adventure of the week or by having some make guest appearances locally.

I'm running an adventure where the antagonist has fled to distant [unspecified location] and am looking for places with unusual supernaturals, but my players aren't gonna be happy if it turns out to be super racist or something.

>>52862258
We wuz kindred?

>>52862249
>Shielding against Death for immortality

>Try that
>Someone shoots you in the heart
>Don't die but exist in a state of constant excruciating pain and suffocation
Genius.

>>52860294
Well in oWoD every Ventrue neonate has to pass a test to become a full fledged member of the clan itself, being told to run a trailer park is not that odd

>>52860503
Ghouls

>>52862258
I play an Ishtarrri (which, we're using some stuff from the new LARP book, so the Istharri have integrated largely into the Camarilla proper), and I've been fluffing up the backstory of the Laibon in less of a 'racist magical negro' manner and more 'this is a society of Amazonian men and women' and drawing from things like Wonder Woman's Themyscira for the Istharri particularly. When we've interacted/mentioned other Laibon, our ST has essentially approximated some of the city-state aspects from Requiem and Greek and other mythology as more 'mini-Themiscyras'. While they work together and different Legacies exist in the same city, each city is more an island to itself, separate from the warring human factions. We also note that there are both African and Whites embraced as various Laibon, since Africa is not magical negro land. I don't know that it would work for others, but that's what we've done and so far we havent had a whole lot of issues or anything that popped as crazy.

If you want to use an area of Africa, I'd suggest Angola and work up a small group of Laibon that could be in the area. Sadly, some of the 'mystical' parts of the Laibon can't be shaved away due to Aye and Orun and that effect, but you can definitely do something cool with it.

>>52852074
2E Is fucking based compared to Masquerade.

>>52852120

Also worth remembering is that requiem clans are pretty much meaningless. In masquerade the clans defined a lot of your political situation when in requiem covenant does that. Except on those games dms wants to make clans a thing.

>>52862558
Thanks anon, that's exactly the kind of suggestions needed. I'll look into all of that. Helpful post.

>>52861277

Agree this is why one should have a talk before the game starts about what and what doesnt a practice do.

>>52862879
You're welcome. I've had fun with this Ishtarri (he was a martial arts enthusiast, the first male Embraced by this particular line of Ishtarri in like forever), and so his coterie and friends constantly make jokes about 'death by snusnu' and Amazonian vampire smashing. Then they met my sire, who is essentially Storm's queenly nature combined with Rogue's 'boisterous bruiser' personality, and our line's goal is to find beauty in perfection of the form and body.

>>52861277
That's kinda what Shielding does, buddy. You could indeed stop aging from happening, but it's not worth it.

>>52862904
Likewise.

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>>52844977

Yes. Yes you can Meet my werewolf killing Waifu.

>>52863755
>Waifu

There are no waifus in the World of Darkness, you filthy pleb.

Say I want to paralyze someone in Awakening.

What are the various ways I could do this, aside from using Life to make their muscles lock in place?

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Does anyone else think Ascension would benefit greatly from a book of rotes, Wonders, and stat blocks? Almost every Mage book has several examples, but getting a reference book for what your NWO agent, Hermetic elementalist, winged sandals, lake spirit, Dreamspeaker shamans, $yndicate kingpin, rural police officer, and enchanted revolver would be super useful imo.

>>52850631
>Has the Technocracy ever been featured in one of your games as anything other than antagonists?

I make it vary for every Technocrat, but the "party line" is to work against the Traditions, maintain the progress that has been made for the Technocratic paradigm, and help the Sleepers (though the Sleepers are left in the dust a bit more than a reasonable person would find acceptable).Some Technos don't care about the Trads if they keep their magic private, other Technos still hunt mystics with extreme prejudice.

>Avatar Storm?

I keep the Avatar Storm around, but its not the raging metaphysical hurricane covering the multiverse anymore, just a bad thunderstorm that roams around. Almost all the archmagess and Techno leaders are MIA, so both sides are trying to figure out what to do now. The Ascension War is mostly on hold as both sides rebuild, but the hardliners on all sides want to strike. The Technos regrouped faster, but the Trads are finding their paradigms gaining followers and more people are awakening than ever.

>>52859359
For the tl;dr versions Wikipedia, 1d4chan, and TV Tropes have decent introductions. To actually play you don't really have to worry about the metaphysical wankery, but it can be fun and explains how the Prime sphere works.

>>52865073

Mind. Forces, Time, Space and even Matter offer a number of potential options.

What Arcana at what levels do you have to work with?

>>52865109
Space 3 and Matter 3.

>>52862249

Shielding protects you against the effects of something harming you. It doesn't prevent you from interacting with it. The standard example of Shielding against gravity protects you from fall damage, but it doesn't make you float. Shielding with Matter against, say, liquid chlorine will protect you from being burned by dipping your arm into it but it won't stop you from stirring the chlorine.

Remember, magic works off symbolism, not science. Shielding is "Protect against X", not "Cut off X from Y". That's Patterning or Unraveling.

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>>52850631
nope

>>52865225

For Space, you could use a very narrow Ban, though they'd appear to disappear from reality. For Matter, you could use Ruling on their clothes to pin them in place.

>>52865279
For Matter I was actually thinking of using Shaping to trap them in a cocoon of compressed air or something.

>>52861403
Shouldn't that be Time 2 and not Life 2? Maybe you'd need both. It'd still be pretty easy though.

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>>52864015
I am aware of this.

That's why I made my own...

>>52865690

You're a madman.

>>52865073

I have now learned you can shield them from moving..

tfw no wod playing gf

dead thread

>>52868585

That's what it's like in Europe hours.

So how much do you people change the setting to accommodate supernatural?

Do you keep things "real" and just slap supernaturals over it or do you change whole cities, add buildings, companies, technology, change historical events and so on?

>>52868711

Truly, Dracula's doing the smart thing by focusing the new edition of WoD on a European audience.

>>52868860
Ech here where I live owod audience either died out or is paralyzed with butthurt over the fact that things like V20 or CofD exist so I wouldn't bet on that

>>52868964

Wait, over V20 too? Seriously?

>>52868995
Ech don't ask me. Most didn't even register it came out. Anyway fandom was really horrible back in 90s and early 2000s around here. Focus in VtM was on moping and woe is me instead of stuff like Jyhad or even the metaplot

>>52860738
Amazing.

>>52869152
>lobster supremacy

a Song for Mages

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wvTs-1jUFE

It even has Ascension

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>>52868734
I keep it mostly real with the supernats doing shit behind the scenes (except when they don't, which is usually a plot hook).

Scion was supposed to be out in pdf form in May right? I'm assuming that got bumped back?

>>52859580
>>52859609

You've uncovered the beginings of the secret laws of the tellurian.

Your methods of understanding them are imperfect, whether it's science, art, occultism, religion, martial arts, drugs, literature, etc.

Ultimately I consider Magic in either version of Mage to be about Imagination more than belief or symbols.

Is there an already existing legacy based around fucking and birthing monstrosities?

>>52871299
I tend to go full out on the other hand.
>Major landmark houses Seers of the Throne HQ. Orders blow it up. Ministry of Mamon rebuilds it as a skyscraper and places huge "Fuck You" sign on it(only visible with mage sight"
>Carthian Movement owned train company that via proxy owns every train in Europe and provides transport services for every other group in game.

>>52871299
>>52872996
I like to mix it up. I'll have real and fake cities with major events be completely mundane and with supernatural influence.

>>52872865
Daksha.

>>52873598
>implying the master race is somehow "monstrous"

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>>52869052
A ton of stuff just started making sense.

What level of sympathy would a mage have with their own sanctum? Strong or Medium?

>>52872865

Thyrsus players

>>52870216
Madoka Magica Did Ascension better.

>>52875061
Did Madoka become the literal embodiment of a concept?

>>52876702
Yep!

>>52871419
Who knows. I haven't heard much of anything from that front to be honest, so I'm going to guess that yeah something went wrong somewhere and it's going to be longer. No idea though, might be another one or two months, might be another half year.

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Anyone here know which Giovanni book this is from?

>>52877284

Wow, that's some shitty writing. I could honestly write better than this.

>>52877856
Prove it

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>:|

>>52877284
I like how the author forgets who broke Scott's jaw.

>>52878045

Yeah, I have no idea where the name "Chloe" came from.

>>52877284

Never mind, found it. It's the Clan Novel series, Giovanni.

>>52878045

Nah, Isabel just introduced herself as Chloe.

Does anyone actually use the alternate ammo/range rules in Hurt Locker? How well do they play out in practice?

Range bands look like they're just for making TOTM easier, and would be actual shit if you're using any kind of map, but the ammo rules look ok.

Anyway, wanted to ask this earlier, but forgot.

I read some campy science fiction shit today, which was basically space furry aliens invading Earth. Whole thing ended up in a bust for them because motherfucking Vlad Tepes got out of hibernation and savaged their whole colonization force, before boarding their ships and turning them towards their homeworlds so he could play planet-busters.

Silly and stupid as the premise is, how would the vampires of oWoD react to an actual alien invasion, in which the aliens used kinetic strikes to wipe out major human cities? I mean, what kind of tactics would they use when the fuckers started coming down? Could they take the fight back to them in orbit?

I'm just bringing in vampires here because Mages/Technocracy/Demons (and Mummies maybe?) could quite probably just blow the fuck out of them easily enough.

Six-player crossover Chronicle in exactly one week as of tomorrow. Players already determined.

>2 Changeling (Fairest & Elemental)
>2 Vampire (Daeva x2)
>1 Werewolf (not sure yet)
>1 Mage (Acanthus)

Any pointers? Anything I should look out for / be concerned about? First time for crossover.

>>52878371
What do the aliens want? The aliens' tactics and strategy will in large part determine those of the vampires.

>>52878470

Originally, the whole Council of aliens viewed humans as too fucking savage and bloodthirsty, so they used the soldiers of their Council to 'colonize' Earth and basically turn humans into a slave/client-race. Earth got pounded by kinetic strikes across every capital city in the world and every army base. They expected humans to just submit after their show of superiority, so that they could then turn them into a slave-race.

After a while they shifted their goals, because humans did not, as the book said, have the submission mechanism and would just keep on rebelling, even generations later if the current one was pacified and conquered, so they wanted to wipe them out with bioweapons, but shit went bad for them once good old Vlad got around to doing his thing.

>>52878545
>>52878470

Oh and those kinetic strikes wiped out one half of the world's population.

>>52878456
>Mage
Stay on your toes

>Acanthus
nvm, you're fucked

Crossovers are usually a horrible idea. The Mage alone is far more powerful then every other PC, possibly combined. At least in terms of versatility.

If you're deadset on a crossover I would do two things, two things to guarantee some semblance of sanity.

1. Have a gentleman's agreement with the Mage that he won't just magically shit all over the plot.

2. Given out non-matching amounts of XP.

The Vampires and Changlings should get the most.

The werewolf the second most.

The Mage the least.

Beyond that, just keep an eye on what your characters actual abilities are, and try and get them to diversify. Encourage "role balance" and spotlight balance, because otherwise its gonna turn into Pathfinder Wizard vs Fighter on steroids real quick.

>>52878620
>>52878456
Forgot to link.

>>52878232
I play with maps and I've used them on the occasion when they've come up. Overall I like them. They make the book keeping easier and smooth the flow of combat.

I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out what NWOD books go with 1e and which are for 2e. Someone clue me in on, say, Vampire?

>>52878456
Your going to be redoing every scene over and over until the Acanthus is able to win....

>>52878456
look up for time traveling rules for the acanthus, you'll need them

>>52878371
Unless they can feed on the aliens, vampires would probably try to protect and raise some humans, they are their food after all,they can't grow and prosper if their food is taken by other predator, some of them migh even come out in the open, claiming to protect them from aliens in exchange of some blood price and absolute loyalty, if its masquerade then the sabbath would want to go to war while the camarilla would attemp to negotiate with the aliens.

>>52878620
Or just something as simple as making aracnum cost more to buy.

>>52878725
Anything that is Chronicles of Darkness is 2e. 2e Requiem only has the core and Secrets of the Covenants.

>>52878832
Blood sorcery is also in line with 2ed but thats it

>>52878620
Fucking please. The imbalance is there for sure, but it's no where close to the level of a wizard and fighter. I'd say it's like tier 2 vs tier 4 at best, and usually much less than that because very few mages actually build themselves to do all the sorts of things they could, and at least in my games characters tend to focus on entirely different fields.

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So, the Ban spell lets you incorporate other Arcana to ban or allow specific things. Matter would allow you to make a Ban against, say, bullets. Mind would allow a "don't let anybody in besides me" Ban.

What can you Ban with Fate?

>>52879065
I'm not sure how the bullet ban would shake out. I mean you could say, ban all iron or steel sure, but I'm have to look up whether you can define this discrete sort of thing. Banning people other than you would probably be life or prime, but I could see an argument for mind. No clue what fate could do.

>>52878980
>very few mages actually build themselves to do all the sorts of things they could

The Arcana are far too broad for this to be true, so I'm just going to assume that your characters were complete baboons.

>>52879140
>that your characters were complete baboons.
Having run mage LARPs is wasn't the characters who tended to be baboons so much as the players...

>>52879157
>LARP

There's your problem

>>52879140
And I'm going to assume yours were power wanking autists. Where's that leave us.

>>52879190
This isn't a matter of powergaming, it's the fact that even a single Arcanum can fuck things over entirely, wholesale.

Mages are both the most specialized and the most versatile gameline, quite literally.

Is there any Demon: the Fallen supplement that gives more specific rules for what happens if you play a demon who had their original host killed and had to become an Earthbound? Like, how does play proceed from there?

>>52879140
In my experience it's the fact that they're so broad that cripples them. Players are used to getting handed a spell list to pick and chose from with other games, or even other wod games, so they have trouble thinking outside the box.

>>52879218
I know. I don't deny any of that, that wasn't my point. My point is that just like wizards and dnd, players don't use them to their full potential. Some people just want to make a cool character and don't care about mechanics, some are just plain dumb and don't think through all their options.

>>52879241
>so they have trouble thinking outside the box

So they're quite possibly retarded then.

>>52878976
>Blood sorcery is also in line with 2ed but thats it


I read somewhere that the gargoyles rules were 2E compatible too.

>>52878620
That's some pretty steep hyperbole. I mean sure mages have comparable power to wizards, but unlike fighters the other supernatural can actually do more than one thing kind of well.

Ever think that Mages aren't as strong as people claim them to be?

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>>52879366
Oh no oh no ohno ohnonono

Why would you say such a thing. I can almost hear the Jaws theme playing.

>>52878232
>Does anyone actually use the alternate ammo/range rules in Hurt Locker? How well do they play out in practice?
>Range bands look like they're just for making TOTM easier, and would be actual shit if you're using any kind of map, but the ammo rules look ok.

The movement rules are OK, at first it got confusing how much one could move per turn but we play a side campaign on FFG Star Wars which uses the same movement system so it was smooth sailing past 2 sessions.

The ammo rules though, they are plain confusing. It says that certain types of gun can only fire a number of burst but what if one doesn't shoot in burst? unlimited ammo?

>>52879366
Starting mages, sure. A lot of your spells have a 50% chance of working in the first place.

>>52879366
>unmaking rote
>90% ES
>can't even defend against the wizard

lololol

>>52879366
No, they can do most everything they say they can, it just doesn't matter as much as most seem to think when often a player just wants to be John Constantine.

>>52879134
I have trouble with this too, on one hand i think banning bullets should be ok, the concept of bullets is a thing rather than needing to define every material a "bullet" might be made from, but then why no then go the full hog and and just all "projectiles" that'd include bullets, arrows, rocks blah blah.

>>52879739
Good thing all my bullets are made from swarms of bees with deadly toxins. Swarm rules are the best.

>>52879595
>can't even defend against the wizard

Yes you can. It's withstood.

>>52879837
Not with an exceptional. Which the post was about. Do you even know how to read?

>>52879866
That's not what it does, it only grants you three successes instead of a five.

>>52879595
>unmaking praxis

>>52879926
And one of the effects of a ES is ignoring withstand you fucking cockgobbler.

>>52879569
If you use hurt locker ammo rules, auto-fire is no longer a quality. Any gun can do bursts as long as they have the ammo capacity for it.

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>when your crew consists of two vampires, a mage, a werewolf, and you as the only mundane
>when even in your niche you're getting outclassed because everyone else has fucking gay powers that stop you from hitting them with a fist or melee weapon, and you're not smart enough to at least be the dude that can research
>when they're like "dude you're the party face" but your charisma shit was your third tier behind physical and mental

Crossovers were a mistake. What is so fucking wrong with wanting to play Alan Wake in this? Why does everyone want to play supernatural. Or, better question, why can't anyone tell new we were going to go past just being Hunters before I brought my guy to the table. Its enough to make me shriek like an autist and sperg out on a Indian goldfish collector market.

>>52879926
Praxis grants you three successes rather than five for an Exceptional Success, dummy.

You can bypass all Withstand ratings via an Exceptional Success.

>>52879241
This is true. However once you get used to the system 'spell lists' seem so painfully clunky.

>>52880496
It's mathematically superior to craft and use your own rotes vs using a praxis once you obtain mastery in an arcana.

>>52880053
Does burst fire still offer dice bonus w/ the hurt locker rules?

e.g. short burst +1, medium burst +2, long burst +3

>>52880569
Masters really are privileged.

>>52880617
It's sort of the point isn't it? Mages are selfish bastards Master Mages are megalomaniacal selfish bastards. I also use it to justify why you don't see 10th degree masters running around. Since a Master is probably so caught up in their own ego they wouldn't think to lower themselves even a fraction for some minor tutoring in another Arcana.

>>52880695

Mastering a single Arcanum can take well over a decade, but I get what you're saying.

>>52880695
It's also because it's sodding hard, takes time, and to advance in Magic you need to actively, personally experience shit.

Much of which is dangerous.
The Mysterium is built on that principle.
Study don't mean dick if you haven't put in the hard yards.

>>52880695

Because by that point you should be pursuing archmastery. Wish we had more ideas or info about what the journey is like, because all we get is lolidunno but here's the trials ~after~ you get there.

>>52880437
Crossovers work just fine. Crossovers with mortals are stupid I'll give you that, but even that you can force if you want to with a few hacks from the various books or handing out more xp.

>>52880759
Read Imperial Mysteries, it has an excellent section on an example threshold seeking.

A middle eastern alchemist of the Uncrowned Kings who absorbs all his soul-stones and seeks to create a self-repairing spell.
Only to realise his imperfection was failing to help a previous student, who had fallen into the practice of Goetia.
He found the student, and saved him from the practice, then saw his own soul reflected in his students (an expansion of his Legacy's principles), and realised the practice of dynamics.

When did the 'Caine vs Archmage' shit topic happen, exactly?

I'm just now reading last months threads.

>>52879366
can they be that strong? yes
the question is though, are the smart enough to use their power without doing something that'll get them killed in 5 seconds flat

like that idiot who wanted to become a tornado of silver fire to fight a pack of werewolves. you get dipshits like that all the time in mage who have this vast power and waste it on dumb shit like that, and they're surprised when they get wasted to little shit

>>52881513
>like that idiot who wanted to become a tornado of silver fire to fight a pack of werewolves

Not idiotic at all. Rather brilliant if you ask me. Either the Uratha have water on hand (would that even work?) or they're fucked.
Or they can run away, hopefully.

>>52881578
Unlike Changeling form shifting, I don't believe being 'extinguished' or other wise having your elemental 'weakness' exploited actually does anything to mages. You didn't make some weird deal with fire, you are fundamentally altering the way fire works.

>>52881627
True. I guess there's not much a Pack can do in this situation then.

>>52881505
Not too long after Aspel left, I'd say it started about 2-3 months ago

>>52881513
>tornado of silver fire
An entirely rational thing for a third-degree Adept to do when confronted by a foe whose weakness he is well aware of.

Is there any discipline/devotion/whatever that allows vampires to interact or fight with spirits in twilight?

>>52881766
Yes; it's in the Book of Spirits.

>>52881743
>>52881578
>>52881627
>>52881717
no you idiots
you are the one altering yourself
becoming silver fire
FIRE
F I R E

that shit that stops working when it gets wet or put in a low oxygen environment? yeah, that shit.

it wouldn't even take a werewolf to trash a dumb ass mage who thought that becoming silver fire was a good idea, any freshly embraced vampire could pull it off

>>52881505
Early to mid January I believe. The consensus is that the Archmage would win. It died down somewhat, but still pops up from time to time.

>>52881899
You know you can make shadows stay around no matter how much light there is with Death. The fire isn't burning anything. You can't extinguish it. That just isn't how the magic works.

>>52881899

>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>52881899
>eurofaggot

Just ignore him guys, he will come up with literally ~anything~ to appease his hatred for anything Mage.

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>>52881979
don't worry magefriend
werewolves still love you

>>52881899
Are you the same dingbat that tried arguing against the Imperial Practices being canon as of 2e, just because they weren't specifically exemplified in the core, even when they WERE mentioned in the goddamn book? Or even when the Dev explicitly said they were canon, you denied it like the evangelical retard that you are?

You will go to any length to be a biased fucktard.

>>52881627
If you want to turn into fire then fire is still going to act the same way normal fire does, unless you then cast a second spell to make it so that doesn't happen.

>>52882058
Except the first spell already does this and makes you into a sourceless fire.

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Not going to lie. It's really entertaining when magefags gang up on the misinformed.

>>52880876
But what do we extrapolate from that? Do something related to your legacy? And don't you have to go through a whole bunch of other shit before you get arch'd like facing all your paradoxes and establishing a centamani

Tangentally, I want to say that Goetia is NMage's answer to the holodeck from Star Trek.

>>52881766
Obtenebration from Bloodlines the Hidden. Khaibit bloodline/Mehket.

>>52881899

Remember that bit from one of the Hunter books where the Hunter rigged a warehouse up as a gas chamber and lured a bunch of woofs into it?

Werewolves aren't exactly known for solutions beyond "I CAST FIST"

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>>52882018
>tfw magefag
>tfw consensus kicks in
wtf I love knots now

How would you build a prison or mental asylum for left-handed mages?

I was thinking either the Abyss or the Supernal (or an Emanation Realm) (perhaps an Archmage's Centimani) would be one of the securest locations.

I think that imprisoning left-handed mages in the Abyss would be a bad idea as that would probably risk creating some kind of super Scelesti when the psychic malaise of the place inevitably gets to them.

>>52882131
DELETE THIS NOW

>>52882083
No that wasn't what anon was proposing if I remember the thread right. He just said turn into fire. He'd burn out under all the normal conditions unless you prevent it.
Hell wouldn't you need to cast the fire altering spell first and then hang it with time/fate? That'd be pretty impracticable for something you could accomplish much easier.

>>52882141
Imprisoning mages is really REALLY difficult. I can't even express this enough, I just can't.

>>52882155
The spell in the book that does the thing he said doesn't work like that. This isn't creative thaumaturgy. its published material.

>>52882155
You're thinking way too hard to appease your own biases. That's not how it works.

They literally give an offhanded example of a mage turning herself into fire in the 2e core, without any difficulties in explanation.

>>52882131

Balloon Knots, you mean.

Bring that woof ass over here, boy.

>>52882100
>hunters confirmed for smarter than mages

the guy suggesting turning into fire could have literally done just what those hunters did, or done something like turned 50% of the nitrogen in the air into silver nitrate powder. it'd that dumbass mage that actually makes I CAST FIST a viable solution to the werewolves in question mage problem

>>52882167
Really? I vageuly remember something like that from 1e but as far as I recall it doesn't give any special rules about being immune to water for one, and on top of that 'it was a thing in 1e' isn't really solid grounds to say you can do it in 2e
>>52882191
This one I must have missed. Can I get the page reference?

>>52882241
>my way to play Mage is the only right way

kek

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>>52882233
THERE IS NO RESISTING THE KNOT

>>52882241
Fuck off eurofaggot French amphibian ballsack

Personally I'd rather transform myself into a cloud of silver cordyceps spores. After infecting the nearest woof I'd wait until my hyphae had firmly entrenched into his nervous system before hijacking his body and keeping him as a prisoner while I controlled him like a puppet to the nearest woof den. Then he'd get to watch as silver fruiting bodies violently erupt from his form to spray all his friends with more spores infecting and bringing more mutts under my will. He'd live long enough to not only experience the horrific pain of countless silver hyphae networks emerging from his own body but to helplessly watch the enslavement and extermination of his pack before the extant of his injuries finally claim him leaving him a withered out husk.


Or you could throw fireballs idk.

>>52882161
Probably some sort of archmage fuckery to whip up that magic-proof stone from atlantis as building material for a start.

>>52882241
Supposedly the turning into fire thing is in the book. see >>52882167

I don't have enough Magetism to know for sure. Hell, I liberally borrow ideas form the old game in the new one and occasionally vice-versa.

>>52882301
I agree. Now be a good doggy and bend over.

>>52882312
See this is what I love about mage. You don't even really need the wisdom thing for players to start acting like fucking idiots and making everything over complicated and dramatic, they do it all by themselves.

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>>52882301
not even once
the k is silent

>>52882141
If it's to the point that the rest of the awakened community decides to act it would probably just be a death sentence imo.

>>52882312

Mages really can fuck over werewolves with ease.

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>>52882301
>tfw no dom top werewolf bf

>>52882402
Werewolves are dominant tops by default, whether or not they're masculine or puppy eyed.

>>52882359
It's very clear throughout the books that the death penalty is the approach used almost all the time. That's what makes the idea of an alternative interesting.

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>>52882333
>I agree. Now be a good doggy and bend over.
oh you silly little mage and your tight little boipucci don't know what they're in for

>>52882402
keep hope alive

>>52882460
Perhaps soul severance? I believe that worked in 1e.

You could then be forced to host a 'jailer' ephemeral entity for the duration of the sentence. If it deems you've been reformed you'd get your soul and magic back.

>>52882494

Don't make me break out the Dirty Potter stuff.

Why can't werefags just anally violate normie humans instead of mages

I don't get it

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>>52882432
I'm not so sure about that
>>52882494
Hope has long since died

>>52882654
>never experienced the knot

Mhmm

>>52882654
Werefag x magefag is the purest form of love anon

>>52882799
I always shipped vampfags x magefags instead

Call me a heathen all you fuck, furfucks.

>>52882799
No. That's hunter x any monster

>>52882863
Vampfags can't ghoul mages, at least not easily.

Vampfags trip the fuck out on mage blood, not in a good way.

Vampfags are meant to be sit on, as is their due.

Werewolves actually make for better lawn chairs than vampires, just putting it out there.

>>52881903
>The consensus is that the Archmage would win
I come back to see this sewage shit.

I fail to see how an Archmage is going to handle a single Antediluvian.

>>52883166
Can we not start this again?

>>52883166
Please don't.

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>>52883166
How the fuck will Caine or any of the Antediluvians match something as ridiculous as this?

>>52881903
Wait from old? Aren't high tier disciplines just 'lol do whatever I guess'

>>52882863
Can't go hiking on a nice day with a vampire like I could with a werewolf

>>52883366
They used to be, until they gave them descriptions and examples in Gehenna.

Sphere 10 abilities are even more "do whatever the fuck you want" in all honesty, as they're intentionally never listed. Seven dot Spheres can already outdo 10 dot Disciplines.

I like how Mage as a game encourages you to read books, and not just from your own gameline. Vampire on the other hand appears to have a fan base that doesn't even seem to read their own books.

>>52883294
Because they're not supposed to cross over.

>>52883405
So every ten dot isn't called plot device anymore? Granted I don't keep up with old literally at all so I wouldn't be surprised.

>>52883366
>>52883405
Yeah, Forces 7 can already do what Protean 10 does. Forces 9 is total control of the universe, while Forces 10 is omnipotence in that regard.

>>52880602
Yeah, the bursts themselves work the exact same way. Only thing that changes is the cost to use them, and what can use them.

>>52883438
10 dot Disciplines are entirely a Plot Device, just not as much was you'd think after examples were given.

10 dot Spheres are never exemplified out of necessity, and are even more of a Plot Device because of this.

>>52883294
Plot Device. If an archmage using the spell would harm the story, any Antediluvian can handwave it away.

>>52883499
I don't think you understand the definition of Plot Device, but you can house rule whatever you want, friend.

>there's a difference between Plot Device and Plot Control

>http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Plot_Control

>>52883533
>Plot Control
Entropy 9 is essentially this. Entropy 10 would be something on another level, if we go by the Unnamed who ended up ruling the universe in that one scenario.

>>52883499
>let me just use my Presence 10 plot device power to prevent gravity from no longer existing in the entire universe

>>52883408
Well, wizards are all about knowledge. Vampires are all about luxuries.

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Second degree Adept Thyrsus girl.

>>52883586
Presence 10 can't actually do that if we go by Gehenna. I can project nightmares to the rest of the world though!

It's your story however, run with it.

>>52883586
>woos gravity into coming back to the universe
>then summons archmage into lair to come and be eaten