How do we save roleplaying?

>>52879198
We keep encouraging it until casuals get fed up and walk away.

>>52879231
How do you encourage it at your table? When I was DMing I would sometimes provide special bonuses for really getting into character.

>>52879198
>It seems like more and more players are concerned with doing the maximum damage possible and making min/maxed builds rather than creating interesting characters with which to explore the world that they inhabit
I'm curious as to how you're going about charting and tracking this trend

what's your metric, your sample size, the duration of your study and your control?

>>52879309
We both know there's no actual study, can we skip the autism?
I'm basing this on my own experiences with new players, new DMs, listening to podcasts, reading any of the generals on this board and browsing various forums. So no I'm not exactly pulling it out of my ass and yes it could just be confirmation bias.

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>>52879481
>listening to podcasts

>>52879198
Award extra XP/karma for good role playing. Positive reinforcement for when a character plays to a weakness (let's say, he has asthma and willingly takes that into consideration on how he approaches actions) will weed out the dude crits lmao crew, that and making sure every player gets a cool niche to fill and moment to shine will make the actual damage done a point people don't care about. I remember a lot better our party talking down a terrorist by reminding him of his family than the time I punched someone into red mist, for example.

>>52879999
this is the basis for burning wheel

three level of reward, Fate let's you make your dice pool explode for one roll, Persona let's you add a bonus or avoid death, Deed let's you double your dice pool or reroll all failed dice from a pool

Fate is earned if, at the end of a session, you've:one for each one of your character's beliefs you followed (you've got three), one for each of your instincts which caused a problem (another three), and one for each trait you have which caused a problem

Persona is earned for completing a belief-related goal

Deed is earned when you persue your belief to the point of dramatically changing the setting

>>52879198
>maximum damage possible and making min/maxed builds

Can't explore the world much if we TPK and the GM scraps said world out of sheer butthurt.

>>52879198
I have the opposite problem with people obsessing so much over stories and collaborative novel writing that they fear sending their characters with multi-pages backstories into any dangerous situation at all.

>>52880772
How would you propose striking a balance?

>>52880896
Striking them sounds like a plan. I'm sure they'll fear less for their characters if they start fearing for themselves.
Thanks Anon.

>>52880521

I think he means people who go really out of their way to min max but are garbage tier roleplayers, which I think you could attribute to video games.

And besides, if your GM is any good, he will accommodate to a not min maxed party.

>>52879481
Alright, we'll promise to skip the autism if you promise to skip the relevant discussion and get to the part where someone brings up something that's actually interesting.

You're just our Thread-monkey pounding stupid ideas on the keyboard hoping to get popular on an anonymous board. You're a means to an end, where our actual goal is to reach 50 replies, change the subject entirely, and either start discussing a new setting, Foreign Affairs and Policies, Sexual Fetishes, or a new meme

This is coming from a guy who sucks at role-playing

Teach us.

We're lost

Help

>>52879198
Teach them good habits by introducing them to the hobby via games other than the current go-to introductory games which only teach bad gaming habits.

You all know exactly what I mean. But I'm not saying the meme.

>>52882626
VID E OH

GAY MES?

>>52882646
No, anon. Try again.

By not playing stupid games.

>>52879198
The solution is simple. Stop playing D&D.

I've found that too many people make fun of anyone who commits too heavily into RP. Probably a related issue is when there are too many people for the GM to handle, so the other people get bored.

>>52882572

>>52882535
Anon, you seem to be projecting fairly hard.

>>52882677
DEE AND DEE?

>>52883039
It's mainly a question of your roleplaying maturity level. Immature roleplayers get like that more often, especially when the 'roleplayer' usually seems to think that RP means interpreting everything as a rapturous life-changing event for their character, while the others are still insecure about their ability to express themselves through their characters.

People who have reached a higher maturity level can bring a level of moderation and nuance to their RP that makes it easier for others to handle, while respecting other peoples' attempts to roleplay.

It's kind of like a beginning strings player screeching and scratching, versus a more practiced one who can produce something resembling music.

>>52883274
And Pathfinder.

Now you're getting it.

>>52883148
Every fucking summer like clockwork, m8...every fucking summer. The trolling shitstorms won't stop til fall midterms....they are so predictably stupid.

>>52879198
>doing the maximum damage possible and making min/maxed builds rather than creating interesting characters with which to explore the world that they inhabit.

Sounds like a problem with the system if that type of min/maxing is available. Give people points to spend in different parts of a character can prevent 1 dimensional character ability.

If they can't roleplay outside of combat then their gm needs to help them build expectations and lead them by the nose until they get shit done. Some are just going to be bad though, oh well.

>>52883306
THANK YOU ANON KUN
<3

>>52883466
>can prevent 1 dimensional character ability
Sure, it can...but it doesn't. Point buy is just as open to abuse as any other system - if people wanna cheat, people gonna cheat. Your other advice is spot-on, though:
>their gm needs to help them build expectations and lead them by the nose until they get shit done
Gotta work with them, help them, give them pointers. Experience makes people better.

>>52883148
>>52883335
I'm honored that you think I'm a newbie, but no, I've been cultivating this level of annoyance and deliberate stupidity for years on here. Each post is specifically designed with the right amount of petty annoyance and shitposting to garner replies.

NOW PAY ATTENTION TO ME, I THINK I'M FUNNY WHICH IS ALMOST THE SAME AS ACTUALLY BEING FUNNY BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN LAUGH AT HOW STUPID I LOOK TRYING TO BE FUNNY.

Huh, irony done right. I'm gobsmacked.

>>52879198
>It seems
To you

>>52879198
Start by killing (you)rself.

>>52882240
>which I think you could attribute to video games.

You can't, complaining about this tendency is as old as rpgs themselves.

Personally I've never seen the problem in players treating the game as a game. We're certainly wasting time with these hundreds of pages of rules if you don't want people to be interested in builds and gear selection.

>>52884514
So, you see no problem in having a party with 18's in all their ability scores, who have bought all the best magic items, running around in your games? I wanna play with you!!!!

>>52879198
The simple solution is to make the world interesting to engage in in non-combat ways.

If there's a good reason and it doesn't feel like time wasting bullshit people will get on board.

How do we fix /qst/?

>>52879198
You play systems that reward extremes/minmaxing, while at the same time leave a very open route for roleplaying. When one character isn't special in doing the most damage, because all the characters are able to do the most damage, then roleplaying gets played up since it's the only way to actually make your character unique/standout.

Also, get rid of critical successes/failures.

>>52884062
>Point buy is just as open to abuse as any other system
Apologies, I meant split your system into combat and non-combat abilities and assign points to pools for each. That way they can't spend all of their points on just combat, or just non-combat stuff.

>>52884637
Unbanning quests from all boards so /tg/ gets them back, but isn't inundated with Bleach/Lesbian Quest XIV, and having the community decide whether they want quests or not by general shaming, leaving /qst/ to act as a place for the boards that don't want quests to run them.

>>52884688
No.

>>52885030
Yes!

>>52879198
You find a group of people who enjoy playing whatever game you want to play. You don't try to convince other people that enjoy a certain style of game that they are "wrong".

Casual

>>52884680
Yeah, gently forcing the players to act correctly at chargen could help inspire correct play. Sets a precedent for them to follow.

>>52885159
Subjectively, you're all wrong.

also giant faggots

I roleplay as an in-universe powergamer

>>52884688
Are you McShitting me? We still have to find ways to get 40k its own fucking board because they can't make a general.

Slay all the titans

>>52885230
>subjectively

>>52884688
>Unbanning quests from all boards so /tg/ gets them back, but isn't inundated with Bleach/Lesbian Quest XIV, and having the community decide whether they want quests or not by general shaming, leaving /qst/ to act as a place for the boards that don't want quests to run them.

This would be a great idea if we could enact changes by getting the mods to listen to the users, instead of the current system of just becoming mods so we can change the rules to fit our personal tastes.

>>52884169
If you're going to use that distinct of a posting style, why don't you just put on a trip so I can filter you?

>>52879198
Odd, most people I play with are concerened with having fun.
I think the best way to save the hobby is to enjoy it and support content creators you like.

It seems like more and more players are concerned with prefroming retarded amateur dramatics and endlessly wanking about how creative they are rather than creating interesting characters with which to explore the world that they inhabit by interacting with the actual mechanics of the game as intended.
I think that this has been caused by posers who don't really care about games who pretend to be interested in it because it's trendy flooding the community. How do we counter this toxic thought process?

>>52888061
*performing

>>52884688
Quest threads getting banned from /tg/ was the best day of my life, cry harder bitch.

>>52879198
I think you're wrong. The problem is not a lack of narrativism, it's too much. *World, FATE, and countless "narrative" systems introduce bad habits like failing forward and metacurrency.

>>52888324
How's failing forward/meta currency a habit.

I'm not even asking how they are bad (I can see why one would think meta currency is bad at least), but how the fuck are they habits?

One is a GM-ing principle, the other is a game mechanic.

>>52879198
>It seems like more and more players
This is not in any way a new phenomena. Such players have always been part of the hobby.

If anything I'd say that you're just getting exposed to them more and more because of the internet.

>>52888134
Don't worry anon, quest threads will be back on /tg/ soon enough

>>52889115
Only in your dreams :^)

>>52884514
>We're certainly wasting time with these hundreds of pages of rules if you don't want people to be interested in builds and gear selection.
I'm siding with the "roleplayers>rollplayers" but this is true

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>>52879198
Can this be age and earlier experiance based you think? I mean, do you see this trend among people in their 30s that has been playing for 15 years - and if; has their playstyle changed towards more murderhoboing big dick deeps as of late?

>>52884584
What? It's possible to let people powergame but also insist that they follow the rules. And if someone manages to break the game through some exploit I tell them well done and ban it.

You got some data to support that claim?

>>52889612
Not that guy, but it's just the cycle of bitching. We already had Quests banned once before this, and whining brought it back, then people whined again to get them banned again. It's just the cycle of complaining until the mods decide it's easier just to give us what we want and make the other side unhappy for a change.

>>52884637
I haven't seen any quests on /tg/ lately, so I'd say it's working at 100% efficiency.

>>52879198
The answer is probably just "talk it out", but that would make sense and we cant have that.

>>52879198
There's nothing wrong with min-maxing

Nobody's going to call you a faggot for picking a race that gives bonuses to the class you want to be over one that gives you bonuses in one your class would rarely use. The attitude you have in game is more important, d&d calls your (higher level) characters the equals of the likes of CuChulainn, Hercules, etc. You aren't supposed to be an "average joe" you're supposed to capable of becoming a heroic figure.

>>52879198
Step one, find better groups. Step two, stop bitching at the internet about a perceived problem that doesn't actually exist. Step three, ??? Step four, profit.

Realize the two are not mutually exclusive.

>>52890688
>Not that guy, but it's just the cycle of bitching. We already had Quests banned once before this, and whining brought it back, then people whined again to get them banned again. It's just the cycle of complaining until the mods decide it's easier just to give us what we want and make the other side unhappy for a change.

This, basically. With the large number of fans of quest threads on /tg/ (after all, more than 90% of this board was quest threads at one point) I imagine quite a few questfags will be trying out during the next recruitment drive.

>Anecdotal evidence, the post

>>52890688
Except nobody whines to bring quest backs in any significant capacity. There's a few questfags who have a self-inflated opinion on the matter, but moving quests to their own board hasn't spurred any backlash that didn't die down after a week.

>>52893814
>Except nobody whines to bring quest backs in any significant capacity
This explains why every metathread talking about problems with /tg/ hits 350 posts of people talking about how they want quest threads back on /tg/ before the mod deletes it.

>>52893839
They hit 350 posts because you're autistic and keep bumping it along with that one anti-questfag ad nauseam.

>>52893865
That explains the 80+ poster count. I'm glad you're so knowledgeable about this board, anon!

>>52893814
I can't imagine voluntarily going to /qst/. You go to sleep, wake up looking for something fun to read, and the top thread has no new posts and no new threads were made because it's not the weekend or one of the dates where one of the people that give a shit posts. That should just fill you with despair for your hobby.

>>52879198
I've never had a problem with min/maxers, but I've had many problems with munchkins. Min/maxers might have a narrower mindset and might outshine the party if the build doesn't include any support options, but can still be fun for the group. Munchkins are completely selfish and ruin the fun for everyone.

>>52893900
>I'm glad you're so knowledgeable about this board, anon!
Someone has to be to counter your autism about needing to click to another board to read a thread.

>>52879198
If there's a problem with roll playing, then the answer is plain and simple: you're playing with the wrong group. My group of nine years doesn't encourage role-playing because it's a basic assumption that you're there to be someone else. We also understand the visceral joy of rolling a fistful of dice and saying, "That's a lot of damage". The hobby itself isn't in danger, your group is. If you want to get good roleplayers, you have to keep them in the group for a long time. It's not about finding naturally not-autistics, it's about raising them above their autism.
Tl;Dr: You're presuming too much, you're the one who has to be an example.

Stop playing dnd

>>52893917
Yeah, the extremely low participation rate on /qst/ compared to /tg/ is a good argument for why that board isn't working. Most roleplayers who like a particular quest thread don't want to constantly check a different board just on the off chance that that specific quest is being run, and it's not as if there's such a thing as a "quest player" who participates in all quests regardless of content.

>>52893930
Oh, haha, wow. Heh. Hee-hee, Dude.

Give them time. Sometimes it's takes a bit to figure out the character. They may also need some things to happen to them before they gain a personality.

Have you tried not playing DnD?

Also find players that fit your play style. It's your group not the hobby.

>>52893700
let's be honest, if the best option a game gives you is also the 'less fun' option in some way, you're not playing a good game

so long as you're using a decent system powergaming should never be an issue

>>52893700
There's a difference between making a consistent character, and trawling every book for obscure rules that create broken combinations.

>>52885993
>if we could enact changes by getting the mods to listen to the users, instead of the current system of just becoming mods so we can change the rules to fit our personal tastes.
You just figured out why our governments don't work...nice!

>>52879198
play different games.

There's a real glut of well-made games which force you to roleplay to get xp; not silly voices and 0 ooc speech at table, actual 'what would my character do' stuff.

That said, it's not bad-wrong-fun to enjoy pathfinder. I sure don't but I can see how people would.

>>52879198
by growing the fuck up and relishing that this was always a thing in RPGs. For fuck sake, DnD 1ed had next to nothing outside of combat, it was literally a dungeon crawl simulator. If you want to play a game where there is more role playing instead of roll playing play a more rules light system, otherwise anyone who has the least bit of a brain in their skull will optimize their characters to some extent. You want to know why? Because 4 party wipes when fighting that one troll/beholder/dragon/bugbear is not something people like and most of the time want to avoid

>>52879198
>It seems like more and more players are concerned with doing the maximum damage possible and making min/maxed builds
3rd edition was released 17 years ago.