/osrg/ OSR General - Bait Edition

>>52871676
By that little string of numbers in the top-right. I'm not even sure what it means.

>>52871676
>How do you organize your physical books?
I don't have physical books

File: my books1.jpg (4MB, 4000x2992px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 4000x2992px

>>52871676
On a bookshelf...

For the most part I keep to the core sets and just buy redundant copies for players who need them. Organization isn't really much of a problem.

>>52871676
>How do you organize your physical books?
Most are in the bookshelf, and the current ones are stacked on a table together with a bunch of haphazardly strewn about notes.

Are there any books, articles, or blog posts about what to do with herbalism?

Anyone have experience with Peril on the Purple Planet for DCC? Could I run some ERB or Dune-like stuff with it? Planet of the Apes?

I'm debating that or the Lankhmar boxed set...

>>52872602
Now I know why I can't find a whfrp 2e book

>>52873203
Purple Planet isn't that close to Dune: it's more of the Dying Earth stuff with mutants and rayguns. Planet of the Apes would go better.

You could easily run Dune on DCC, though.

Now that we have a new thread, a silly little idea I bounced around discord a few hours ago:

The Liquid Lich.

The ancient Heine Ken was as powerful as devious, and he created a devious plan to destroy his hated enemy, the king Abstemius. Heine distilled his very essence into a powerful beberage, binding himself to the liquid as his phylactery. Slipping the drinks into Abstemius' palace, he let go of his physical form and waited for the moment the king drunk his essence, allowing Heine to posses him.

Only Heine did not account for a little detail. The drinks did not hold just a part of himself as a whole, but every single one held a single part of his disturbed psychology. Unfortunately for him, Abstemius only drank the bottle containing his paranoia, and so quickly disposed of the bottles (and outlawed all beberages in the kingdom in a very unpopular law). The bottles eventually found their way to a variety of people, monsters and animals, each holding a part of the demented lich.

The Brewer, having consumed his desire for reunification, hunts such beings and brews and drinks their blood to gather the broken pieces Heine's mind. He's already caught a few of the drinks and now he exhibits the strange powers of a liquid semilich.


Soooo...

Each bottle holds a specific part of Heine Ken's psyche, ranging from his magnificent sense of fashion to his thirst for arcane knowledge.

Who could have found these bottles and what effect they had on them?

>>52868289
I handle maiming as negative levels.
It makes you worse in a fight, but you can compensate with more training.

And take severed hands etc. into account when arbitrating actions, ofc.

>>52869939
>4 actually got to the end battle
What end battle? Acererak is a trap, just bypass him.

>>52870472
Print your chits and cit nicely.
Or, much better idea, print a number drop sheet.

Random numbers scattered on a page.
Drop a pencil, it points to your "roll."

>>52871676
I stacked (vertically) on a bookshelf, but don't organize them.

>>52873322
>Who could have found these bottles and what effect they had on them?
How many pieces are you planning on having?

>>52873236
Thanks! I saw sand worms in one of the reviews and got excited.

File: the_wizard__pt__vi_by_whodrewthis.jpg (262KB, 1092x742px) Image search: [Google]

262KB, 1092x742px

>>52873440
>How many pieces are you planning on having?

I have no specific number in my head. I guess I'll stop when they are no longer funny.

Some I have:

>A troll took "the pride in his arcane power". Think pic related but with a troll.

>A dog took his greed, so he's been snatching every shiny thing he sees and burying them all around town.

>An old woman took his atrocious sense of humor and is hanging people from trees using their intestines as rope. She finds it hilarious and will invite you to tea and cookies right after hanging one.

>>52873440
>I handle maiming as negative levels.

Is there any difference at all between getting your hand chopped off and having a vampire choke levels out of you?

I'd imagine it would make undead rather less fearsome.

>>52871676
>How do you organize your physical books?
By game and then edition.
From there I have the core rules to the far left, then the GM/monster manual focused books, then the player option books, then adventures and, if needed, printed out things on the far right.

>>52873753
Mechanically? No.

Thematically, you can play up the life drained character as a "part way corpse."
They're cold to the touch (unless warmed), wake up stiff with rigor mortis, can't hold their bowels, bloat with gasses when exhausted, attract scavenger animals...

>>52873223
One of those was an accident. I was bidding on ebay and lost. About a week later I received an email saying that the person who outbid me flaked and that I was next in the order. I just figured "fuck it, why not three?"

>>52874287
I'm just jealous....

>>52873746
So... they don't contain power? JUST personality?

Anywhere to find a good source for a whole bunch of diseases?

>>52871676
>How do you organize your physical books?
By game line and alphabetically:
AD&D 1e & 2e
Basic sike i ain't got no Basic
3.5 I was young and stupid

>>52875463
Spells are part of memory too, aren't they?
I guess I find it most fun to think about normal people or critters acting like a lich, but spells are there too.

>>52876049
Is the a naval base nearby?

>>52876223
Unfortunately no. It's pretty far up in the wild north - which is another reason why diseases, at least real life ones, wouldn't go around so much.

I just like people getting sick. It brings the sort of realistic, visceral feel to a campaign.

So am I some kind of terrible prude, or is Blood in the Chocolate pretty much Magical Realm: The Dungeon?

>>52876347
No, each new LotFP release gets more cringey

>>52876554
Veins of the Earth is pretty great, though. So is Broodmother Skyfortress.

File: 1493057262743.png (195KB, 639x358px) Image search: [Google]

195KB, 639x358px

>>52876206
Best advice I can give you is flesh out Heine Ken before you portion him put.
Give him a detailed backstory, from youth through apprenticeship all the way to power.
Nail down his personality, and be able to describe all the key formative moments in his history.

If you have someone in mind, the portions will feel more cohesive.

Also, at the risk of outing myself for bad taste, take a page on villain design from Tappei.
Q: It’s nice that the archbishops are all scum, isn’t it? A lot of recent villains have had sad pasts and such, and don’t seem like villains, you know? I’m looking forward seeing how scummy Regulus is.
A: Thank you very much. My aim with them was to create scum with no meaning, who felt impossibly awful. I’m looking for the feeling where understanding a little of what they’re saying only makes it worse. They’re all scum.

>>52876347
>>52876554
>>52876589
Yeah, BitC is pretty uniquely fetish-y, even among LotFP products. Really kinda puts things in perspective, after all the times we've called out Raggi for inserting his fetishes into shit. This is a whole different league of blatant wankery.

>>52876874
Raggi didn't write it though. It was that tumblr guy.

Two Lotfp rule questions.

1)If a scroll has two spells on it, does a magic-user need to cast read magic twice, once for each spell on the scroll, or will one spell usage 'make' both spells on the scroll usable.

2)Can a magic-user use another magic user's spell book for their memorization in the mornings? example. If a player finds an npc's magic book that has three spells on it. Will they have to copy it into their book before it can be used, or can they simply carry the second book with them?

>>52876924
That's what I'm saying, Raggi's fetishism is nothing compared to this one.

>>52876974
1) Only one use needed.

2) Yes, they can use another spellbook.

Both of these things are mentioned in page 80 of the LotFP rules.

>>52877085
thanks for the clarification.

>>52871709
>Is it just me or do these threads reach bump limit much faster than they used to?
They do. Back when they were a new thing I used to have to bump them to keep them alive to the ban limit, sometimes several times in a row.

>>52877085
Wasn't the rule that magic users always write their spellbooks in cypher like idiosyncratic ways only they understand?

>>52877323
From the rules, page 80:
>Spellbooks are large, bulky things, and valuable at that. While a Magic-User can freely use any spellbook upon which he has cast Read Magic, sometimes a Magic-User may want to consolidate spellbooks or create new ones.
As long as they cast read magic, they can use it.

>>52877323
Any wizard can use read magic to translate other wizards spellbooks, though. I guess once you understand their mumbo jumbo it's easy to prepare spells from there.

A) Is there footage out there of a D&D tournament? Unedited play would be awesome.

B) What's a good low-level tournament module? I don't care if it's 'officially for tournament', but it should have quantifiable rewards and be oneshot-able.

>>52877550
>What's a good low-level tournament module?
Tomb of Horrors has almost no fights.
Scale down all the "sure damage" (or make it avoidable) and level 1s could clear house.

>>52871676
>How do you organize your physical books?

Left to right, In edition order. retroclones inserted after the edition it emulates. PHB,MM and DMG first and then all supplements and modules to the right of them in no particular order. Same with the other rpg books. Core and supplements to the right.

Do you use the Great Wheel cosmology or do you go with something weirder?

>>52878867
I haven't really gotten into cosmology in my campaign, but I think that I'd remove a lot of the structure of the wheel and instead make the classic D&D planes just kind of "floating" around together with other planes. Something about the logical structure of the great wheel makes it very mundane to me. I feel like it removes a lot of interesting elements and themes that come from parallel worlds and gods and demons and stuff.

>>52878867
Weirder. Right now writing up a campaign that's a not-Spelljammer science fantasy romp through the Astral Sea.

>>52871709
You jinxed it. This thread's far slower than I've ever seen these generals.

>>52878867
for my campaign, the backstory is that all the known planes are artificial. The plane everyone is currently in which the players think is the material plane is actually the Vault, a last ditch effort by the planer architects trying to stop what is essentially a 'heat death of the universe' type of event for their manmade planes.

>>52878867
No planes, but many locations are fantastic.

>>52879930
Greetings, newfriend!
The current paradigm is "week day."

>>52879930
These threads move like a stepped-on water hose. They can be quiet for a couple hours and then suddenly explode as soon as something interesting starts being discussed.

File: 1492051405268.jpg (179KB, 1280x707px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 1280x707px

>>52881361
>>52877293

And that's no bad thing. I'd rather have a slow thread full of good friendly content than a fast thread full of shitposts and sniping.

>>52878867

Less weird. The goal for my setting is "sort of mundane".

>>52876589
>Veins of the Earth is pretty great, though.

Veins of the Earth is fantastic.

How's a good way to handle breakable equipment? I want magical gear to feel actually magical instead of just being bonuses, and I feel one of the best ways to do this would be to simply smash up the nonmagical ones.

Are there any good rules available for this anywhere?

>>52876589
Why have I never heard of Veins of the Earth? Is it new? I don't think I've seen it in the trove...

>>52881920
It came out like last week, but it's been in development for a very long time, like four or five years or something.

File: 1428250367866.jpg (169KB, 1080x608px) Image search: [Google]

169KB, 1080x608px

>>52881599
My favorite is this:

Remove critical failure tables from your game, if any exist.

Each weapon starts out with 1-3 'break' slots. Every critical failure fills one of these slots in. When the third is filled, the weapon is no longer usable. The quality of a weapon determines how many break slots it starts with, use your Ref's discretion.

>>52881599
Look up "Shields Shall Be Splintered".

Now apply the same rule for weapons and armor.

Break your sword to not take damage. Break your helmet, or bump off an AC point from your armor, in exchange for half the damage or so. Tear up your clothes in exchange for no damage, but only if you're relatively unharmed already and also have charisma 13+.

Hello Anons, I've been looking at DCC and i'm liking the look of it quite a bit. I've been comparing it (at a very basic level) with AD&D 2e. But i'm super new to both system. Could any kind anon's with more knowledge than me compare and contrast or give me a general gist of the benefits of either/both?

>>52882727
DCC actually compares better to 3rd edition, partly in that it's got the DCs and saves and stuff, but mostly because it's rather combat-centric.

>>52882759
2E wasn't?

>>52883147
Less so.

has anyone made a flowchart for b/x (or similar) that shows how all the systems interact.

eg. what rule each ability score is used for, then what each ability score modifier is used for and so on.

>>52871676
by system/edition, then by core rules, then supplements/boxed sets, then modules. Sub-sorted by release order/publication code/numbered sequence.

On a bookshelf. Lights off. Missionary position.

>>52877062
Yeah. Raggi seems like a Tarantino-esque kind of fetishist. He likes promoting a style and pushing envelopes for the sake of being provocative. But he doesn't want to actually skullfuck anyone.

Kiel seems more like the guy you know who watches a little too much anime for a grown man, and you saw his collection of loli porn at a LAN once when people were trading. But he is a nice guy and we live in an age of socially mandated kink acceptance so you just try to kind of support it even though it weirds you the fuck out.

>>52883705
>+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
>| Traveller | Box Sets |
>+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
>| Judges D&D D&D | Misc RQ/ Dragon New |
>| Guild Modules Rules | C of C Misc . |
>+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
lel thieves world

File: bookshelf.jpg (667KB, 2880x1284px) Image search: [Google]

667KB, 2880x1284px

Upper Left: Traveller
Lower Left: Judges Guild, Old TSR Modules, D&D Rules
Upper Right: Box Sets
Lower Right: Old RPG, RQ, C of C, Misc TSR, Dragon, New RPG

>>52883147
2e is the most combat-centric OSR system; but even saying that, 2e isn't combat-centric.

>>52883927
*OSR system
TSR edition of D&D

>>52883790
teach me the error of my ways

How does /osrg/ feel about players rolling Armor Class vs. static attacks?

>>52884399
Extra work to no benefit.

>>52871676
>How do you organize your physical books?
Product number for TSR D&D, system then product number for the rest.

>>52883792
Do you have four copies of Holmes and two copies of OD&D?

REEE YOUR CP2013 BOX IS UPSIDE DOWN

>>52884582
>players roll to defend

>more work than monsters rolling to attack

?

>>52884727
It's the same amount of work during play; but it requires conversion, so it's extra work during setup.

Not very much extra work, but there's LITERALLY no benefit.
Which is a terrible return on investment.

>>52884399
1. Why?
2. Who cares?

>>52884779
>Not very much extra work, but there's LITERALLY no benefit.
It allows the player to be active, to keep him in the action, to feel like he's dodging rather than just waiting to see how accurate the other guy's blow is. I'm not saying I think it's necessarily preferable, but I do understand why somebody would want to do things that way.

>>52886136
[a] more communication -> slows gameplay
[b] strays farther from Gygax's vision

>>52886234
>Gygax's vision

I thought we agreed to cut back on shitposting?

File: meow.jpg (49KB, 192x192px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 192x192px

>>52886328
I thought we agreed to let the referee roll all the dice behind his full-body screen?

>>52886234
>[a] more communication -> slows gameplay
There's no more communication required than when a player rolls to hit on his attacks.

>>52886384
>no more
only if you make/receive equal #s of attacks

File: disgust cat.gif (2MB, 275x154px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 275x154px

>>52886349
That's because the referee has a body like Jabba the Hutt and body odour like boiled tube socks. The full body screen is for us, not him. We'd put him in a lead-lined burka if we could.

>>52886494

Might as well keep the ref one room over.

File: 1446179927884.jpg (115KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 800x800px

>>52886512
We tried, but the shouting required only made his breath worse. We can't win.

None of us can remember why we called him here, or what his original purpose was. We can barely look upon him.

"Forever GM", we'd called. "Forever GM", we have.

>he doesn't use Avariel instead of vanilla Elves
>he doesn't use Urdunnir instead of vanilla Dwarves
>he doesn't use Linnorm Dragons instead of vanilla Chromatic Dragons
>he doesn't use Psionic Gem Dragons instead of vanilla Metallic Dragons
>he doesn't use Web-Spectres instead of vanilla Liches

Explain (You)rself

>>52886943
>instead of
Explain YOURself.

>>52886943
At some point, you're over doing it.

>>52886943
I'm trying to run a fun game, not pander to people who think creativity is using a minor variation on a staple of the tabletop fantasy genre.

>>52882031
Okay, cool.

Anyone got a PDF?

File: veins of the earth.png (52KB, 299x320px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 299x320px

>>52887068
Yup

>>52886943
>he doesn't use flarndelflabberfloobloo instead of dingledang.

yes, a rose by any other name still smells as sweet.

File: Renaming Shit.png (119KB, 640x963px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 640x963px

>>52886943

>>52887147
>>52887119
>tfw to intelligent too google

>>52886965
>>52887032
>tfw to intelligent too worldbuild

>>52886956
I can only stuff so many "very rare" creatures in my encounter tables before they start looking like DBZ

>>52887099
What's it like?

>>52887068

It was posted in the PDF share thread recently, and linked here a thread or two back. 4plebs will find it for you.

File: Spotlight Dogs.png (782KB, 663x932px) Image search: [Google]

782KB, 663x932px

>>52887220
Dunno, haven't read it at all.

I only downloaded it because I really dig Scrap's work and I wanted to browse the art.

File: tumblr_ob4wsmY49A1s71q1zo1_1280.png (360KB, 1078x729px) Image search: [Google]

360KB, 1078x729px

>>52887206
>too google
>too worldbuild

Now, tfw-poster, I've seen you in these threads before, baiting left right and centre, but you've either outdone yourself this time... or you've made a hilarious mistake.

>>52887119
Flarndelflabberfloobloo

Stats: as a Snarfluorion, but with a resistance to even-numbered damage
Goals: the propagation of the creed of Obduros, smelling roses
Lair: underneath ghekis and the occasional urpotrop, infrequently

>>52887270
>tumblr filename
>ignorance of memes
>ignorance of game material

*tips wizard hat*

File: tumblr_ncxqk71Bpt1s71q1zo1_1280.png (531KB, 1078x729px) Image search: [Google]

531KB, 1078x729px

>>52887318
Well that's me told. Back to a Reddit, I suppose.

>>52887240
Yeah, a quick ctrl-F and a scroll back will find it pretty quickly.

>>52882564
This is a good system in theory, and I do mean that sincerely, but it's very fiddly in practice. Who tracks this? The PCs? You? And how do you repair a weapon in the field?

>>52887348
>Who tracks
Both? I dunno, keep a few 3x5s or something. As ref I like to keep track of things like that, but the players do too. It'd be weird if one side wasn't aware of the status of a player's weapon.

>Repair a weapon in the field
You don't, unless the players have a hireling and a mule hauling around a portable forge or craftsman's workshop.

Players will end up bringing extra weapons in case of breakage, or tools to craft makeshift weapons in the field. It's easier to make a crappy, temporary weapon than it is to properly fix a broken one.

>>52887119
>dingledang
(AC 6; HD 3-5; MV 35'; #AT 1; D 15 (static); SD Reroll damage and take the lower result, Save M2; ML 10; AL N) Drops a Wandering Monster (4-in-6) or Treasure (2-in-6) when killed.

File: Dwarf Fortress Patch Notes.png (492KB, 770x3195px) Image search: [Google]

492KB, 770x3195px

>>52887404
Oh, for fucks sakes anon, you're using the bowdlerized dingledang from 2E.

You're missing
>Drops a Wandering Monster (3-in-6), Treasure (2-in-6),
or an Empty Room (1-in-6) when killed.

File: 1490639325517.jpg (36KB, 551x591px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 551x591px

>>52887435
>>52887404
Both of you are full of crock.

The ORIGINAL (and proper!) dingledang is from the S1-b module (Acererak's Bordello). You can identify it at once because the move speed was omitted. Errata puts it as MV 350".
(AC 6; HD 2+5; #AT 1; D 15 (static); SD Reroll damage and take the lower result, Save M2; ML 10; AL N) Drops a Wandering Monster (2-in-6) or Treasure (4-in-6) when killed, drops a Trap when captured.

>>52887220
Awesome. Great mechanics mixing light, wealth and initiative, quality monsters as expected from patrick and a good, evocative read about the darkness below.

File: Wandering Monsters.png (159KB, 1348x1402px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 1348x1402px

Can I get some stat blocks?

File: 123.png (192KB, 699x314px) Image search: [Google]

192KB, 699x314px

>>52887514
>Acererak's Bordello
>drops a Trap when captured.

I suspect this is your magical realm.

File: 197195.jpg (69KB, 671x1005px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 671x1005px

Anyone read or run anything from "Goblins of the Faerie Wood" for DCC? Just curious how many options it gives for goblin classes and if the included adventures are worth while.

>>52886494
>>52886512
>>52886625
>not communicating with the referee exclusively via short-range telegraph from the next room over

So....-13 ac from diamond plate mail. Thoughts?

File: aed0a76e9edd51d83fcfd5d4c9cb8a2e.jpg (501KB, 1350x1920px) Image search: [Google]

501KB, 1350x1920px

Skerples, have you read Totsukuni no Shoujo?
It seems right up your alley.

>>52888223
Crossing -10 is taboo.

File: 1491335239618.jpg (2MB, 2270x3056px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2270x3056px

>>52888261
>Skerples, have you read Totsukuni no Shoujo?
>It seems right up your alley.

I have not. I'll check it out.

>>52888261
But there is precedent: gem dragons.

>>52888296
Repeat after me: monsters and players don't follow the same rules.

File: what__by_sirhanselot-d9h3rgx.jpg (205KB, 905x634px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 905x634px

>>52888318
>Repeat after me: monsters and players don't follow the same rules.

Monsters and players don't...
Monsters and...
Mon....
Monstergirls.

DAMN IT, not again.

>>52888284
What is this from???

So /OSRG/, I would like your opinions:

I have a pretty active boardgaming group of around 10 people. We poker together, play boardgames, and a few of us are running through a B/X campaign, with a fifth member of that group being the DM. This is a regular weekly campaign. I would now love to start an open table campaign (thinking B/X while importing some 1E and 2E stuff). Any experience with an open table format? I understand that time tracking becomes even more important. Any other rules systems I should take a look at? Other OSR rules (whether from TSR or from third parties) that are important for an open table?

>>52887247
reminds me that we still need to get a scan of Fire On The Velvet Horizon done someday

>>52888546
Maybe today? Yes?

File: z66sGMh.png (453KB, 606x839px) Image search: [Google]

453KB, 606x839px

Alright, /osrg/, I'm getting ready to run LotFP and want to run a Ravenloft style game (strange and mysterious foggy land with a big ass castle, a few small settlements, brooding horror and all the great trappings of those classic gothic horror stories with gypsies, vampires, werewolves, fiends, witches, etc.).

Any ideas or suggestions?

>>52889270
16th Century Weird Europe has the advantage of containing the real Wallachia. Use it.

File: strahdbandwhite.jpg (116KB, 688x407px) Image search: [Google]

116KB, 688x407px

>>52889649
Link?

In terms of running a satisfying long-term OSR (or OSR style) campaign, what elements do you think the rules system needs?
For instance, b/x (or its clones) hits a sweet spot for many people because of its straightforward mechanics with room for complexity when needed. But AD&D's complexity and wealth of character options might keep players invested for longer, despite some often tedious mechanics.
Then again, one of my most successful and long-running games was based on Advanced Fighting Fantasy, which was a pretty rules lite (and unbalanced) game. I was reading Maze Rats recently and I wondered if it would be good for a long-term game or not.
Do you think the campaign world and how the DM runs the game is more important than the rules used?

>>52890270
>Do you think the campaign world and how the DM runs the game is more important than the rules used?
This, so much this.

You want what your party wants but a good DM is worth their weight in adventure modules.

Why would anyone choose OD&D instead of BX?
-Easier to run once you learn it. Easier to learn if you use a clone (Delving Deeper beats Molvay, imo)
-Nostalgia (fuck that)
-...?

>>52890890
Looser and more moddable. More stuff about warfare and worldbuilding. Not as many assumptions and implications about what the game is.
B/X is more boardgamey and dungeon-focused, OD&D is more wargamey and campaign-focused

>>52890270
>Do you think the campaign world and how the DM runs the game is more important than the rules used?
Yes, of course.

>>52891273
>B/X is more boardgamey and dungeon-focused, OD&D is more wargamey and campaign-focused

True enough, but it's also possible to use Moldvay Basic and then move onto the LBBs and you get the best of both worlds.

Thief skills have a 2 in 6 chance. Pick your two* fave skills: those have 4 in 6.
Chances don't increase over time, but each level you can change your faves.
You gain access to skill Read languages at 3rd level, and skill Read magic at 9th.

*Or 1/3 of the total number of skills available for your system/campaign.

r8

>>52892021
So long as even though chances don't increase along levels as such, you get to do more stuff with them, and the easier things can be done without a roll.

Otherwise there'd be little point for the thief to gain levels, right?

>>52888318
I'm making armor out of the hide. Duh.

File: matoitroll.png (234KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

234KB, 480x480px

Rolled 8 (1d8)

>>52892021
>r8
2-in-8

>>52892039
I see your point, but I want a fast system that keeps things accesible but swingy, even at high levels.
My players aren't too power-driven, and a promise of a 99% chance of success after an Orcus worth of XP isn't a great incentive for them (neither I like it as a DM)
>the easier things can be done without a roll
No? That's what thief skills are, unique stuff nobody else can do (at least not as easily, fast, cheap and silently as a thief).

>>52892051
Why d8? I wanted to use d6 since all the other rolls are like that. It doesn't override other mechanics, just gives a better chance.

>>52892223
>No? That's what thief skills are, unique stuff nobody else can do (at least not as easily, fast, cheap and silently as a thief).

Yeah, I'm not saying anyone else could do them without a roll, or even with one, but where a low-level thief needed a roll for something, a higher-level thief can do it all right - and can also give a reasonable attempt at things that the low-level guy could never try.

That's literally what leveling up is about. If you take that away from them, you might as well stop giving the fighter better attack bonuses or more attacks, and the wizard has to be content with his single first level spell forever.

>>52892248
For me it's like spells in BX vs spells in AD&D.
They do more or less the same thing, except BX has a fixed duration/range, while AD&D gives them a lower base and scales them with level.
I can see the appeal of that for some people, but I like it simple (ok maybe this is TOO simple) and fast.
Maybe I could let thieves pick more 'fave skills'? 2 at chargen, a new one each time they gain a to-hit bonus, maybe.

>>52892386
>For me it's like spells in BX vs spells in AD&D.
>They do more or less the same thing, except BX has a fixed duration/range, while AD&D gives them a lower base and scales them with level.

Yes, yes, but you don't only let wizards to have about two first level spells forever, then maybe only switch their spells around on level ups, and never letting them have higher-level spells at all.

>>52892422
It would be more like having a MU start with 2-2-1, and eventually unlock higher spell levels, but yeah that's the idea.
Better start, flatter progression.

File: dhampir woman.jpg (252KB, 500x652px) Image search: [Google]

252KB, 500x652px

>>52889649
Wait, are you implying to just use our own world? I already am, I just want tips to help run the growing dread of horror of a game.

File: Elric.jpg (39KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 480x360px

>>52888393

>He doesn't know Moorcock's Elric series

>>52888425

Familiarize yourself with the notion of having a caller, in case everybody shows up at once some day.

File: cc2.jpg (106KB, 680x894px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 680x894px

>>52892223
>Why d8?
Rated you 2/8, diced v. the benefit of the doubt.

>>52892223
>Why d8?

m8 when u r8 u d8 coz its gr8

>>52892021
Thief skills have a 100% chance. You dice for how long they take.
Chances don't increase over time, but each level you can do things faster.
You learn an alignment language at 3rd level, and another at 9th.

r9

File: stand a little out of my sun.jpg (169KB, 640x433px) Image search: [Google]

169KB, 640x433px

>>52892733
Vidya-centric, but these are all worth a watch:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=extra+credits+horror

File: The Lonely Coast.pdf (3MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1x1px

>>52889270
Raging Swan's "The Lonely Coast" has some good stuff. There's a fantastic adventure with Werebats in the same setting you can find in the /pfg/ troves. Super easy to convert to any OSR system.

Anybody tried OD&D XP reward in BX?
You get 100 XP per HD defeated, but it used an anti-grinding formula for monsters weaker than you -- I don't remember how atm, something like HD*100/(partylevel-dungeonlevel).

any suggestions for a good adventure/quest book for a lower experience DM on the Swords and Wizardry conplete system

>>52894127
Any OSR module will work for any OSR system.
It may take slight modification, but we're talking 15 minutes tops.

If you don't feel comfortable* making the changes yourself, once you've picked a module you could ask us for help?
*you /should/ feel comfortable, mind you. it's a trivial conversion

File: dao.png (128KB, 432x515px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 432x515px

This is a Genie, Dao. Say something nice about her or she will enslave you and force you to toil in the Great Dismal Delve for the rest of your pathetic life.

>>52894559
"Does the carpet match the drapes?"
>rolls to seduce

>>52894254
ok, so - any good osr adventure/quest books for lower experience dm's?

>>52893830
I think it was XP * (dungeon level/average party level) or 1, whichever is less. That said, most likely that 400XP creature probably makes the equivalent to 4 attacks per round.

>>52894872
These modules are intended for new referees:

>In Search of the Unknown
Bundled with the Holmes set.
A fairly typical dungeon, and some advice.

>The Keep on the Borderlands
Bundled with the Moldvay basic set.
Disjoint set-pieces and monsters open to diplomacy.

>The Isle of Dread
Bundled with the Cook expert set.
In typical expert set fashion, it's a wilderness hex-crawl.

>>52894964
I don't think OD&D has multiple attacks, even for monsters. Everything is just a d6.

Anyone here have that LotFP book on Slugs that came out last Free RPG Day?

>>52896018
The fighting man gets a number of attacks equal to his level versus <1 HD creatures

Suggestions on where I can find a bunch of pre-made small adventure locals? Trying to find little things to continue filling a hexcrawl.

>>52898079
one page dungeon collections?
quality varies tremendously, but there's good stuff to be found

>>52898079
Check out the One Page Dungeon Compendiums.

>>52896018
Different monsters do different damage. Look at large animals for an example.

Basing it off the old chain mail fights as 3 men + 1

File: Dragon_ff1.jpg (111KB, 759x1000px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 759x1000px

>>52896018
>>52896136

Monsters can have "multiple attacks" using the 1:20 system, since they fight as multiple Men. Hence why characters can get a number of attacks equal to their Fighting Capability--blow for blow they're equal to that number of Men.

So an Ogre (4 HD) versus four 1st-Level Fighting Men is technically "equal" (the math is slightly in favour of the Ogre due to his HP pool).

You COULD also equate it to four Man-to-Man exchanges happening simultaneously, but that gets hairy the more HD you have.

File: stat me.jpg (77KB, 632x500px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 632x500px

What is this thing and what are its stats?

>>52899650
Doesn't have any. It's a sculpture, not a monsters.
Sells for 450gp, to the right buyer tho.

>>52899722

Yeah but if that buyer knows some kind of animation spell...

>>52899840
The spell has (or directs you to) stats.

>>52899650
It's a Pity Homunculus
2HD, skills as a level 9 thief
Generates distress, everyone in its proximity must save vs petrification or become stunned with personal anxiety and grief for a turn. Spells cannot be cast during this time, thieves have a penalty to their skills and everyone has a -3 to hit.
It will not attack but it will follow PCs around and help other monsters find them.

File: satan book.jpg (132KB, 540x658px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 540x658px

What OSR game is best suited to convert my friends to Satanism?

>>52900153
AD&D 1e.

>>52900153
AD&D (pre-Stanic Panic Gygaxian edition)

>>52899987
I like this, thanks senpai.

>tell my group that in my games I treat combat as something to be avoided
>their characters almost immediately decide that they don't actually have good incentive to risk their lives and give up on adventuring before they even start
>game completely dissolves
>haven't played in months
I'm going to kill myself.

>>52900401
>they don't actually have good incentive to risk their lives

It really takes a special kind of a madman to go down there into the bleak, dark OSR dungeons.

Why would anyone do that?

>>52900401
Dungeon delving is either a bad decision or have been forced (brought about by a series of bad decisions).
What I'm getting at here is, characters aren't intended to make good decisions. Clever, sure. But not good.

>>52900459
>Why would anyone do that?
Peer pressure.
Pay denbts.
Fetch a MacGuffin.
Lay low after crime.
Prison sentence.
Thrill seeking.
No marketable skills.
Early retirement.
Prestige.
etc.

File: IMG_0058.png (62KB, 447x392px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 447x392px

>>52900459
I would.

>>52900518
That's because you, like all of us, are depressed and suicidal and really wouldn't mind the horrible death you'll likely face there.

High rewards, near-zero risks. Nothing to lose.

I was pondering using LotFP as a system for a campaign set in Yharnam (before the beast plague had proliferated as far as during the events of Bloodborne, i.e. no Hunter's Dream to save the PCs from death).

I'm fairly new to OSR, so I was wondering:

1. Would replacing the D20 for attack rolls with 3D6 break anything?

2. Does it break anything if, instead of the defensive fighting mechanic, a character can subtract 1D6 from their attack roll and add it to their AC for one enemy segment? This is to approximate the stamina mechanic and would be a corollary to the above houserule.

>>52902521
>Would replacing the D20 for attack rolls with 3D6 break anything?
Not at all! But you may consider >52868499
>Does it break anything if, instead of the defensive fighting mechanic
It breaks the combat abstraction, but defensive fighting already did that.
Just be clear on /when/ you reallocate the die. Mechanically, it's sound.

>>52896136
>The fighting man gets a number of attacks equal to his level versus <1 HD creatures
It's not even just that, it's against *any creatures that rank in troops* rather than counting as monsters. Basically anything that doesn't belong on the Fantastic Combat Table, you get the multiple attacks against. Elves, bugbears, ghouls IIRC, orcs, second-level fighters (Swashbucklers count as a Hero-1, I believe for this exact reason), anything.

>>52902600
>>52868499

>>52900567
>That's because you, like all of us, are depressed and suicidal
Did I miss some sort of signup sheet? I'm not even a little bit depressed. I get to play OD&D and everything!

>>52902600
>>52902617
$ odds 3d6+1 | awk '{sum += $2; print $1, " ", sum}'
4 0.00462963
5 0.0185185
6 0.0462963
7 0.0925926
8 0.162037
9 0.259259
10 0.375
11 0.5
12 0.625
13 0.740741
14 0.837963
15 0.907407
16 0.953704
17 0.981481
18 0.99537
19 1

$ odds d20+2 | awk '{sum += $2; print $1, " ", sum}'
3 0.05
4 0.1
5 0.15
6 0.2
7 0.25
8 0.3
9 0.35
10 0.4
11 0.45
12 0.5
13 0.55
14 0.6
15 0.65
16 0.7
17 0.75
18 0.8
19 0.85
20 0.9
21 0.95
22 1

>>52898168
>>52898170
Thanks!

I'm working on something. Not sure if it will be free or PWYW. Here's a preview:

>Grendel: HD 1+1 (9); AL CE; Int 10; AC 8 (iron skin); Damage 2-8 (bite);
Morale 20 (undamaged) or 4 (damaged); Treasure nil

>Grendel resembles a hairless humanoid with iron-gray skin covered in spikes, warts, and scales. He cannot be hit by any manufactured weapons, including magic weapons. Furthermore, he automatically succeeds on any and all saving throws required by spells. The most effective way to injure him is using grappling (treat Grendel as having 18 Str) or empty-handed attacks. If damaged he must immediately make a morale check using his modified score of 8 or flee.

>>52902860
>PWYW
Just say, "free, but donations are in your face"

>content
p-gud. Would use after rediscovering after download+forgetting from Trove if you pick a curious name /10

File: 1483253572680.jpg (612KB, 1024x1536px) Image search: [Google]

612KB, 1024x1536px

Which OSR system does each class best?

Fighter: DCC (Mighty Deeds)
Magic-User: DCC (Spellcasting)
Cleric: DCC (Spellcasting)
Thief: LotFP (Simplicity and archetype building)
Elf: BFRPG (Multi-class simplicity)
Dwarf: DCC (Mighty Deeds and Sword n' Board)
Halfling: DCC (Cause nobody else tried to make Halflings interesting)

Welp. For all it's flaws, DCC certainly breathed life into some old classes.

>>52902600
Ah, that's good to know. Thanks, o gentlemanly anon.

Never thought of when the it should be allocated, though. Maybe have the player announce that they'll attempt to dodge a particular enemy/hazard before rolling and then set the "dodge die" apart from the attack die.

>>52873440
I handle maiming as negative STATS

(for reference, I use the common table that 9-12 is +0, 13-15 is +1 and 16-18 is +2)

Severe maiming injuries can (rarely) cause permenant loss of 1d6 points of str, dex, or iq. Con isn't effected because hp is too strongly tied to level anyways, and wis/cha aren't affected because it makes sense thematically that injuries could make you more wise and scars might make you more attractive.

a bunch of undead make you lose a level, which is honestly the most fearsome part of fighting them. They're unlikely to kill anyone, even at level parity, but the level loss effect makes them much scarier for high level characters who take 2^7*1000 xp to level up again.

>>52903013
Fighter (OD&D/LBB)
Ranger (were never good)
Paladin (1e, Cavalier)
Barbarian (Oriental Adventures)

Cleric (2e, good splats)

Thief (Warlock 2000)
Thief-Acrobat (exists in one edition)
Bard (1e, Dragon Magazine)

Magic-User (B/X)
Illusionist (1e)

Mystic (Master Rules)

Elf (OD&D/LBB)
Dwarf (B/X)
Hobbit (were never good)

>>52903013
>For all it's flaws, DCC certainly breathed life into some old classes.
That *IS* a flaw.

>>52903151
No, you are just a Luddite.

>>52903087
>Barbarian (Oriental Adventures)
>Cleric (2e, good splats)

These are both objectively true.

>>52898079
Check out Dungeon of Signs' PDFs. A lot of those have very distinct, non-standard flavor, but they're usually small lairs/dungeons and very suitable for your purposes in that sense.

What are some good podcasts for OSR shit?

>>52902860
>Morale 20 (undamaged) or 4 (damaged)
>If damaged he must immediately make a morale check using his modified score of 8 or flee.
Is it 4 or 8?

Also, morale doesn't go above 12 (unbreakable, since the roll is 2d6) in any edition I know of.

File: 1446771097503.jpg (202KB, 674x595px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 674x595px

Ok, I'm having a tired brain day.

Are there creatures other than vampires that have special requirements to make sure they stay dead? Bonus points for folklore-based creatures.

>>52903346
Meant to be 4 in both cases

>morale doesn't go above 12 in any edition I know of.

2e my dude.

>>52903424
>Are there creatures other than vampires that have special requirements to make sure they stay dead?

living dead or dead dead?

File: eddie-liu-ohye.jpg (388KB, 1456x2500px) Image search: [Google]

388KB, 1456x2500px

>>52903515
>living dead or dead dead?

Like "wont' bother us any more" dead. "Just becomes matter" dead.

>>52903534
Alright, canon stuff:

>Liches
break the phylactery and the body

>Dracoliches
ditto, although destroying the dracolich's original body nerfs them hard

>Suel Liches
Kill the host then holy word or dispel evil.

>Maligno from Ravenloft
Technically the only way to definitively kill him is to murder his dad (a deranged but kindly Geppeto expy)

>the demihuman vampires
elaborate stuff here, including getting burned in fireplace

>>52903534
>>52903691
Next, shit I just made up:

>Allip
Cast a spell that removes insanity on it before it dies or it will reform in 5-100 days

>Banshee
Recite a funeral dirge for her after or death or she will rise in 1-6 days

>Huecuva
Have a priest of the Huecuva's religion perform absolution and burial rites over the remains.

>>52902899
As someone's who has gone the PWYW route, I actively encourage people take my shit for free rather than pay money for something they think is crap. Treat it like a tip jar for saying "I want more of this, go buy some beer and make it happen" after the fact.

File: tumblr_o35ze2qMCS1sbqddfo1_540.jpg (126KB, 518x748px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 518x748px

Can someone recommend me aaaaaaaaaanything at all that is comparable to World of the Lost for LotFP?

It's perfect in what I look for: a huge descriptive hex crawl, lots of weirdness, a city generator, new armor and weapons, etc.

What else is out there?

>>52903810
>Cast a spell
The spell of Speak With Dead, the real cure is intensive therapy.

>>52903515
>Are there creatures other than vampires that have special requirements to make sure they stay dead?
Can't remember where, but I saw a write-up for a (ghost-like?) undead that had an odd final death.
You had to disinter its corpse and leave all it's shit on the roadside for travelers to nick.
It can't resurrect once it's all scattered. Take more than one thing, and it haunts you.

File: 1470369210758.jpg (479KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

479KB, 1920x1080px

>>52903691
Excellent, thanks.

>>52903810
Also good.

See, two things occurred to me last night. First, there are already special death protocols for most creatures (don't let the body rot or disease spirits will appear, and perform proper rites to avoid ghosts/dybbuks).

Vampires are just an extension of that.

But what if all "powerful" creatures had special death conditions? What if killing the dragon was possible but unless you did [x] it came back like Dracula (or worse)?

>>52903424
Your image puts me at a loss,
>Ok, I'm having a tired brain day.
but Animist when?

File: alex-brock-redhed.jpg (433KB, 1920x1867px) Image search: [Google]

433KB, 1920x1867px

>>52903977
>but Animist when?
As soon as I can. Work is kicking my ass right now though. People keep spilling oil into rivers and onto tiny cute woodland animals, and I keep having to tell 'em off for it.

>>52903949
>What if killing the dragon was possible but unless you did [x] it came back like Dracula (or worse)?

www.lomion.de/cmm/dragghos.php

Although if you're the guy to finish off the horde they're technically better than living dragons.

Also, take a look at Dragon 254. Semi-canon that giants spontaneously rise as undead monstrosities, it even suggests that they might seek human adventurers because so many of those undead turn giants into the same kind of creature.

File: bramstokerdracula_2380.jpg (93KB, 300x442px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 300x442px

>>52903949
>came back like Dracula
Dracula's first death was getting decapitated with a kukri in London.
That was his final death, too. Dracula never came back.

>dude dracula wasn't a vampire lmao

stale meme, not even giving a (You) for it

File: Topplegeist-Shadows-over-Innistrad-MtG-Art.jpg (560KB, 900x678px) Image search: [Google]

560KB, 900x678px

>>52904096
Nope, according to fine gothic tradition, it's the heart-stab that does him in. It's the staking through the heart /plus/ the beheading that's important, folklore-wise. He never came back because the special death conditions were met.

Plus, see "Carmilla".
>A stake is driven through its heart, and it gives a corresponding shriek; then the head is struck off. The body and head are burned to ashes, which are thrown into a river.

>>52904168
>Carmilla

I really liked the whole "any pseudonym must be an anagram of the vampire's real name" quirk

File: 1241847261538.jpg (92KB, 332x896px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 332x896px

>>52904209
I bet you could tie that nicely to the whole "OCD about entry protocols and rice grains" thing.

>>52904060
From where I'm sitting, dragon ghosts are... boring.

Ghosts are what you get when a spirit is so insane or so angry it forgets its dead, and coalesces a body out of pure effort (sorrow, rage, madness). It's a symptom of a lesser being.

Dybbuks, banshees, and spontaneous vampires occur when a spirit remembers it is dead but has sufficient power to animate their own corpse.

Dragons seem like they'd skip all that tedious mucking about entirely and do something weirder.

>>52879997
Makes me think of the first five 'Might and Magic' games.

The first five took place on a series of artificially-made worlds, and you were (I think) helping one of the android-ish beings who built them track down and defeat one that went rogue. Something to that effect, at least.

>>52892876
Could've just meant the comic adaptation; I know nothing about that version either, so I'm curious when it was done.
If not though - anon, I suggest that you read some Sword n Psychedelics post-haste!

>>52903245
>Cleric (2e, good splats)
What did he mean by this?
No, not in an ironic snarky way, I'd just like further explanation of what that means?

>>52903893
Isle of the Unknown? Vornheim?

>>52904516
2e really shifted away from a the idea of a standard Cleric and really pushed unique Specialty Priests instead.
Want real world myth and religion? Legends & Lore 2e has you covered.
Want D&D monster gods? Monster Mythology.
Want to make up a religion from scratch? The Complete Priest's Handbooks.
It's entirely possible using 2e rules to have an all-Priest party where every member is mechanically different, including fighter-y clerics and wizard-y clerics.

>>52904626
In high school, I was a DM for a 2E game, but as time goes on, I become increasingly aware that I was NOT running 2E. Like, I owned all of these books, but apparently had no idea how to actually use them.
Did not realize this about the priest. Gonna have to go take a second look at it all.

>>52895089
>In typical expert set fashion, it's a wilderness hex-crawl.
Didn't know this was a standard thing with Expert adventures; any of the other ones any good?

File: African Witches.png (40KB, 1593x313px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 1593x313px

>>52904727
>Didn't know this was a standard thing with Expert adventures;
I was more referring to the expert set as a whole, which is very wilderness-centric.

But I can't think of a single X Series module without a wilderness component.
Not saying there aren't one or two, but they don't spring to mind.

>>52903424
Mummies, definitely.

File: 3d6 v d20 with double-size steps (+1 on 3d6 = +2 on d20).jpg (60KB, 890x603px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 890x603px

>>52902684
>>52868499
>>52902521
Pic shows how close the probabilities on a d20 and 3d6 are, when you start at 10 or under (50/50) on both, and for every 1 point you move away from that on 3d6, you move 2 points on a d20. Thus, when the pic says "1 step up" that's 11 or under on 3d6 (the anchor point of 10 + a step of 1) and 12 or under on a d20 (the anchor point of 10 + a step of 2).

File: 1263988348805.jpg (121KB, 831x1107px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 831x1107px

>>52905042
I thought mummies were the opposite; they're what happens when you work really, really hard to make sure a dead guy doesn't stay dead.

Unless I've missed something.

>>52905216
You often have to go through a bizarre process to lay them to rest. By often I mean always. I think the Van Richten's guide to the ancient dead covered mummies.

File: t3_63p6wd.jpg (975KB, 1725x2027px) Image search: [Google]

975KB, 1725x2027px

>>52905469
>Van Richten's guide to the ancient dead
I'm reading this now. I've never seen a book sap the joy out of a concept so quickly. Everything it touches turns to meh.

What are some shitty 70s and 80s movies to inspire my OSR campaign?

Planning to watch Deathstalker, looking for recommendations to help set the aesthetic

File: beastmaster.jpg (43KB, 405x580px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 405x580px

>>52906097

>>52905795
Yeah it's definitely not the best of that series.

File: raf,750x1000,075,t,black_white.u1.jpg (258KB, 750x1000px) Image search: [Google]

258KB, 750x1000px

>>52906097

File: Star Crash col.jpg (919KB, 1799x1618px) Image search: [Google]

919KB, 1799x1618px

>>52906097

File: 51KBA3M08BL.jpg (42KB, 364x500px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 364x500px

>>52906097

File: tianhua-xu-9d.jpg (539KB, 1920x1679px) Image search: [Google]

539KB, 1920x1679px

>>52906158
It's kind of amusing how one sentence from Veins of the Earth can get my brain ticking at a mile a minute, but the entire Guide to the Ancient Dead just made me want to give up the genre entirely.

File: poster-443.jpg (909KB, 1000x1500px) Image search: [Google]

909KB, 1000x1500px

>>52906097
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZove4OTtI

File: conan-destroyer.jpg (115KB, 480x720px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 480x720px

>>52906097

File: yojimbo.gif (998KB, 500x426px) Image search: [Google]

998KB, 500x426px

>>52906097
>shitty 70s and 80s
Are good movies from the 60s acceptable?

>>52906097
if it's a fantasy movie that's been riffed by either Mystery Science Theater 3000 or Rifftrax than I'd say you're good

>>52883726
I wouldn't compare Raggi to Tarantino since that would entail talent he doesn't have. "Less fetishy than the guy who wrote BitC with one hand on his dick" is only a compliment in the strictest sense of the word.

>>52903151
Why? Why must you stubbornly stick with the old, if the new ways turn out to be better?

That's not why we still play the old games.

>>52907252
Not even that guy, but can you tell me how often your players actually use the mighty deed dice in your games? Do you own all the funky dice to make it work? How do you convert an old TSR module to DCC, how do you handle the fact that warriors have an immense power boost? How do you feel about wizards failing to cast their spells at critical moments because of a bad roll? Are your wizard players excited about the fact that they get malformed at least every 20th time they cast a spell? Is your cleric still interested in playing the game after she has gotten disapproval so many times that she is stuck in a death spiral and is nearly useless?

This is coming from someone who uses DCC in their home campaign.

>>52907325
>how often your players actually use the mighty deed dice in your games?

As we understand it there's no reason not to, so all the time. Certainly better than the -4 to -8 you get in most D&D editions for trying anything besides hitting them with your sword.

>Do you own all the funky dice to make it work?

Yeah.

>How do you convert an old TSR module to DCC, how do you handle the fact that warriors have an immense power boost?

All classes are a lot more powerful than in standard OSR games, and can handle an adventure meant for several levels higher than them. All I need to do is to keep that in mind.

>How do you feel about wizards failing to cast their spells at critical moments because of a bad roll?

If it's that critical a moment then your wizard can afford to spellburn 20 points for a guaranteed success.

>Are your wizard players excited about the fact that they get malformed at least every 20th time they cast a spell?

Not unless they spellburn.

>Is your cleric still interested in playing the game after she has gotten disapproval so many times that she is stuck in a death spiral and is nearly useless?

You can make sacrifices to reduce the disapproval.

Also your players sound the kind of assholes who cast spells in the most trivial occasions even when the book goes out of its way to stress how dangerous magic is. It's not my fault they play with fire and get burned.

>>52907402
>As we understand it there's no reason not to, so all the time.
Then you've misunderstood the rule. Read it again.

>All classes are a lot more powerful than in standard OSR games, and can handle an adventure meant for several levels higher than them. All I need to do is to keep that in mind.
Having a level 1 DCC character be equivalent to a level 3 character in any other retroclones means that the high lethality early game is gone. No, funnels aren't the same. They're one-session meatgrinders where each player is several characters. The D&D early game is several sessions with one character.

>If it's that critical a moment then your wizard can afford to spellburn 20 points for a guaranteed success.
And rest for 20 days? fun

>Not unless they spellburn.
So why use the spellcasting rules, if your players aren't excited about it?

>You can make sacrifices to reduce the disapproval.
Which costs money. What a fun way to use your reward for playing the game, to make it so you can keep playing character.

>Also your players sound the kind of assholes who cast spells in the most trivial occasions even when the book goes out of its way to stress how dangerous magic is. It's not my fault they play with fire and get burned.
Actually, they've barely had issue with it. They don't find their characters very fun to play though since any creative solution they can come up with with a spell can be stopped by a shitty roll. So much for fictional-positional challenges.

>>52907523
>Then you've misunderstood the rule. Read it again.

In all the examples I've read, fighters still get their damage bonus from the deed die even if they try an actual deed. There's no drawback.

>Having a level 1 DCC character be equivalent to a level 3 character in any other retroclones means that the high lethality early game is gone.

How so? You just run level 3 adventures for them instead of level 1 ones, and it's about equally lethal.

>No, funnels aren't the same. They're one-session meatgrinders where each player is several characters. The D&D early game is several sessions with one character.

D&D early game is almost as lethal and most of your characters are still going to die.

>And rest for 20 days? fun

Most of the time you don't go on a new adventure after the old one for weeks or even months anyway.

>So why use the spellcasting rules, if your players aren't excited about it?

Even without the spellburn, the spellcasting rules are pretty neat. You always get excited when you roll well.

>What a fun way to use your reward for playing the game, to make it so you can keep playing character.

In no way different from D&D on the whole. You need treasure to keep on going.

>>52907523
>They don't find their characters very fun to play though since any creative solution they can come up with with a spell can be stopped by a shitty roll.

All right, consider the following.

In most OSR games, your wizard starts the game with but a single spell. Once he casts that, he's useless. In DCC he can cast spells more than one time, but that power comes with a price.

Suppose the DCC equivalent for the single OSR spell is the 20-point spellburn for guaranteed success. Now let us compare:

In an OSR adventure, the wizard casts his single spell in a right place at a right time and can very well turn the game around, save the party's life, deal with an encounter single-handedly or even several encounters after that based on the circumstances. He's dead weight both before this point, and after.

In DCC, the wizard gets a whole bunch of shall we say "lesser" spells, the ones where he won't spellburn at all, during which he can contribute to the adventure in a potentially significant manner without crippling himself. Then when the situation calls it, he unleashes his full power: he casts a spell equivalent in might and majesty of a pretty high-level standard OSR spell. He could single-handedly wreck an encounter that would be a guaranteed TPK to any 1st level party in any other system. Or he could summon some hugeass monster to follow the party around for the rest of the day. Then he'll be only slightly more useless than the other guy: the fighter will have to carry him around, but I don't think he'll mind.

You can take more risks than that, spellburn more often and in lesser amounts, but that, once again, will be playing with fire.

>>52907580
>In all the examples I've read, fighters still get their damage bonus from the deed die even if they try an actual deed. There's no drawback.
Read page 88. The warrior has to roll high enough on a d20 AND at least a 3 on his deed die to complete the deed. In a normal attack, the deed die is ADDED to the to-hit roll. I can't believe you removed an actual element of depth and choice from the game and just assumed that there was no drawback.

>How so? You just run level 3 adventures for them instead of level 1 ones, and it's about equally lethal.
No, because low-level games are designed around the idea that the PC can die in one hit and doesn't have a lot of magic items, doodads, and abilities to help them. This forces the players to think differently about how they should approach the situation. Higher level modules assume that the players already have experience and items gained from easier dungeons.

>D&D early game is almost as lethal and most of your characters are still going to die.
Not if you use the stats as-is from an old module. Balance is completely out of whack.

>Most of the time you don't go on a new adventure after the old one for weeks or even months anyway.
So the wizard can only do a spellburn as their last spell for the adventure.

>Even without the spellburn, the spellcasting rules are pretty neat. You always get excited when you roll well.
And not-so excited when you roll bad. Maybe even bummed out that your average-ass level 1 wizard only manages to cast a spell nine times out of twenty.

>In no way different from D&D on the whole. You need treasure to keep on going.
And to expand your domain, and to buy new items, and to use for actual fun things that allow for new and interesting solutions. Not just as a way to get to keep playing.

>>52907607

>>52907607
A level 1 wizard is not useless before and after he uses his only spell. He's only as useless as his player makes him. He's still an active agent who is a part of the resource management game and has to figure out the best way through he dungeon. You're only seeing the characters through their character sheet, which is a lame way to conduct OSR games. One big problem with DCC is that it's all about how the classes are badass and can do all the these amazing things even at level 1 (a very 3e mindset), and that all leads to players not using lateral thinking and coming up with neat solutions. It leads to talk about probability of a die roll and solving every encounter with attacking.
This line by you
>He could single-handedly wreck an encounter that would be a guaranteed TPK to any 1st level party in any other system.
Indicates that you're really just playing 3e with an OSR mask.

>>52907763
>Read page 88. The warrior has to roll high enough on a d20 AND at least a 3 on his deed die to complete the deed

Yes. I know.

>I can't believe you removed an actual element of depth and choice from the game and just assumed that there was no drawback.

There isn't. In the actual example, in the same page, the successful deed also gets the damage bonus added in. He gets the best of both worlds - he gets to have the cake and eat it. There is NO drawback.

>Higher level modules assume that the players already have experience and items gained from easier dungeons.

In DCC, though, this is usually the case.

>So the wizard can only do a spellburn as their last spell for the adventure.

Read the other post. In other old-school games, that's the ONLY spell they get for the adventure.

>And not-so excited when you roll bad. Maybe even bummed out that your average-ass level 1 wizard only manages to cast a spell nine times out of twenty.

So? The fighter swings his sword and occasionally fails that too. Your average-ass wizard gets way more spells in DCC than in other systems so obviously he occasionally fails, but it shouldn't be a big deal any longer.

>And to expand your domain, and to buy new items, and to use for actual fun things that allow for new and interesting solutions. Not just as a way to get to keep playing.

Most of those things are way more expensive than the disapproval sacrifice anyway.

>>52907814
>You're only seeing the characters through their character sheet

But isn't that what this issue is all about? We're talking about game systems, therefore character sheets and mechanics.

If we were to talk about fluff and roleplaying, DCC would stand on an equal ground with the other games.

>One big problem with DCC is that it's all about how the classes are badass and can do all the these amazing things even at level 1 (a very 3e mindset), and that all leads to players not using lateral thinking and coming up with neat solutions. It leads to talk about probability of a die roll and solving every encounter with attacking.

I've played later-edition games and this is usually not the case. At worst there'll be search and diplomacy rolls there to stop you from looking around and roleplaying yourself, but DCC doesn't have those things in it anyway.

>>52907855
>>I can't believe you removed an actual element of depth and choice from the game and just assumed that there was no drawback.

>There isn't. In the actual example, in the same page, the successful deed also gets the damage bonus added in. He gets the best of both worlds - he gets to have the cake and eat it. There is NO drawback.

I think he means that if the deed die is too low but the attack would have otherwise hit, it's still a miss.

>>52907916
In the examples given, the deed die is high enough but the attack roll too low. The opposite examples are not shown, so the whole thing's honestly a bit confusing.

Would make more sense, though.

>>52907855
>There isn't. In the actual example, in the same page, the successful deed also gets the damage bonus added in. He gets the best of both worlds - he gets to have the cake and eat it. There is NO drawback.
If he rolled a 1 or a 2, he wouldn't have hit at all, even if he rolled high enough on a d20. If he did a normal attack, that 1 or a 2 would have been added to the d20 roll, which likely would've led to a hit. There's the drawback of declaring a mighty deed.

>In DCC, though, this is usually the case.
Definitely not at level 1.

>Read the other post. In other old-school games, that's the ONLY spell they get for the adventure.
And it's a guaranteed spell, which is pretty powerful. The game is also built with this in mind, it's not a flaw.

>So? The fighter swings his sword and occasionally fails that too. Your average-ass wizard gets way more spells in DCC than in other systems so obviously he occasionally fails, but it shouldn't be a big deal any longer.
In OSR, melee is swingy because it is discouraged. Spells are guaranteed because they are solutions to problems. Melee and magic is not the same thing in D&D.

>Most of those things are way more expensive than the disapproval sacrifice anyway.
Is it? The DCC rulebook doesn't really indicate what a lot of things cost. They threw out domain rules as well.

>>52907878
We are talking about game systems, but the rules isn't all there is to the game. There's a lot of stuff that happens in a dungeoncrawl that doesn't require looking in the rulebook and at the character sheet. People who don't get that are usually the first to call the magic user worthless because the only thing they can see is that they only have one spell to start out with.

>I've played later-edition games and this is usually not the case.
3e games are notorious for encouraging players to create unstoppable killing machines and attack everything they see.

>>52908002
>And it's a guaranteed spell, which is pretty powerful.

Again, if we assume 20-point spellburn, that is a guaranteed spell as well.

>In OSR, melee is swingy because it is discouraged. Spells are guaranteed because they are solutions to problems.

So regular DCC spells are not guaranteed, and indeed are much weaker in context even if you roll well. The 20-spellburn one is the guaranteed problem solver you're talking about. It's still much the same.

>Is it? The DCC rulebook doesn't really indicate what a lot of things cost. They threw out domain rules as well.

Sure, but I'd still imagine a domain would cost more than three fiddy.

>People who don't get that are usually the first to call the magic user worthless because the only thing they can see is that they only have one spell to start out with.

For the record, I don't think low-level wizards in other systems are worthless.

>>52908050
>Again, if we assume 20-point spellburn, that is a guaranteed spell as well.
So... it's a guaranteed spell, but the character becomes mechanically useless for 20 days. That's not exactly an equivalent here.

>So regular DCC spells are not guaranteed, and indeed are much weaker in context even if you roll well. The 20-spellburn one is the guaranteed problem solver you're talking about. It's still much the same.
Do you also do spellburn actions? Like that the wizard has to cut off a finger every time he attempts spellburn, for example?

>Sure, but I'd still imagine a domain would cost more than three fiddy.
From the rulebook:
>up to 500 gp = +1, 501-2,000 gp = +2, 2,001-
5,000 gp = +3, and 5,001+ gp = +4.
In a game where a warhorse costs 200gp, this ain't three fiddy.

>For the record, I don't think low-level wizards in other systems are worthless.
Which systems would that be, and what are they about?

>>52908117
>So... it's a guaranteed spell, but the character becomes mechanically useless for 20 days. That's not exactly an equivalent here.

Again, most adventures have about that long downtime anyway, and if you spend the time in bed - as you should - the time is halved.

>Do you also do spellburn actions? Like that the wizard has to cut off a finger every time he attempts spellburn, for example?

Anything they could recover in ten days from. I suppose having their finger regrow in that time would be a reasonable thing to expect from a creepy gonzo fantasy wizard.

>Which systems would that be, and what are they about?

Any other OSR system, given the subject of the thread, for reasons you described previously. Their spells are the problem solvers and they can still roleplay stuff even without them.

I simply think that all classes in DCC are mechanically more exciting and actually heroic while still not being the bland interchangeable powerhouses they become in 3e and later.

>>52908165
>Again, most adventures have about that long downtime anyway, and if you spend the time in bed - as you should - the time is halved.
Again, that implies that the spellburn will take place at the end of the adventure. If you have to do it in the middle of the adventure, will you rest for 20 days as well?

>I simply think that all classes in DCC are mechanically more exciting and actually heroic while still not being the bland interchangeable powerhouses they become in 3e and later.
Well, not everyone agrees that they are more mechanically exciting nor that OSR games should have the DCC brand of heroism. Your post at >>52903013 however made the pretty grand statement that DCC do a bunch of classes "the best", but you don't seem to have a fundamental understanding of old school play. In fact, you hailed the mighty deed mechanic to be the reason for why fighters are better in DCC, but you had misunderstood that mechanic as well. I don't think it should come as a shock to you that your opinions on classes would be contested.

>>52908285
>Again, that implies that the spellburn will take place at the end of the adventure. If you have to do it in the middle of the adventure, will you rest for 20 days as well?

Could still manage some of those regular non-spellburned spells in a pinch. Nothing in the rules forbids it.

>Your post at >>52903013 however made the pretty grand statement that DCC do a bunch of classes "the best", but you don't seem to have a fundamental understanding of old school play.

That's not me, actually. I just came in and picked up on a topic I like.

>In fact, you hailed the mighty deed mechanic to be the reason for why fighters are better in DCC, but you had misunderstood that mechanic as well.

Having been corrected on the subject, I still think the mighty deeds are pretty great.

>>52902648
>I get to play OD&D and everything!
Tell me how it is, anon. Convince me I need it.

>>52908314
>Could still manage some of those regular non-spellburned spells in a pinch. Nothing in the rules forbids it.
True, but a bunch of your others stats, which may be important, take a hit and leave you more vulnerable. A hit in your intelligence will also lower your chances of managing to cast spells.

>That's not me, actually. I just came in and picked up on a topic I like.
I see, in that case my beef is only a disagreement. Which post was your first?

>Having been corrected on the subject, I still think the mighty deeds are pretty great.
I think they're interesting, but in practice my players never use it and prefer to just up their attack bonus. That messes with the balance if I use a non-DCC module, and it makes the game too combat-focused.

>>52908373
>True, but a bunch of your others stats, which may be important, take a hit and leave you more vulnerable. A hit in your intelligence will also lower your chances of managing to cast spells.

I believe you can only spellburn physical stats anyway. It's true that you'll be two or three points away from zero CON, but given the power you briefly wield, it's often worth it.

>I see, in that case my beef is only a disagreement. Which post was your first?

This one. >>52907402

Basically where the whole thing kicked up.

>I think they're interesting, but in practice my players never use it and prefer to just up their attack bonus. That messes with the balance if I use a non-DCC module, and it makes the game too combat-focused.

To be honest I've never tried to run any old-school modules on DCC, so I can't really dispute this.

>>52903424
Trolls, I guess? They regenerate even if beaten to death, so you have to burn them; that's basically a special requirement, isn't it?

Liches also have their phylactery so that killing the body isn't enough, but maybe that doesn't count for your purposes because that just means the phylactery "is" the lich in some sense?

How does making a spell blade elf work in 2E AD&D?
Multiclass fighter and wizard?

Is there a pdf of Castle of the Mad Archmage somwhere? I didn't see it in the trove
Also, how good are dragonsfoot's modules? Generic grog stuff with orcs et al? Any highlight?

>>52908984
That's the closest you'll get, and even then there won't be any spells you can stick directly to your sword.

>>52909001
How would it work?
I want to shiv people and buff myself

>>52909029
You get to play as a fighter, or as a wizard. You get to either stab something or to cast a spell. That's basically about it.

There's no real synergy beyond what you could imagine to be born naturally out of the two. You don't get to do any sword-magic but you do get to fulfill both roles and also have some strong roleplay elements.

>>52908997
If you're into working with things created by old T$R grognards, then Len Lakofka's Lendore Isle stuff is pretty good

File: tumblr_o6zgf57n3p1snm6fco1_540.png (417KB, 540x740px) Image search: [Google]

417KB, 540x740px

>>52907325

>Use Mighty Deeds
They use it when the opportunity presents itself; probably 2-3 times a session.

>Do you own all the funky dice to make it work?
Yes; 2 sets.

>How do you convert an old TSR module to DCC?
I substitute it's monsters with DCCs.

>How do you handle the fact that warriors have an immense power boost?
I let them fuck shit up. Because they are WARRIORS.

>How do you feel about wizards failing to cast their spells at critical moments because of a bad roll?
I love it.

>Are your wizard players excited about the fact that they get malformed at least every 20th time they cast a spell?
They love it also.

>Is your cleric still interested in playing the game after she has gotten disapproval so many times that she is stuck in a death spiral and is nearly useless?
Yes, because I am not a shitty DM and will give them opportunities.

People give DCC way, way more shit than it deserves. While I agree it makes a better system for one-shots or small campaigns, it holds it's own against all the other OSR systems and is honestly one of the few with enough gusto to sever old ties to add it's own ideas and flavor.

>>52909029
>How would it work?
Mostly spell selection. There aren't a lot of Wizard buff spells, but 2E does have a large spell selection so there'll be some on most levels, at least. (I'm grogulous enough to consider this a drawback, but I realize that doesn't make any sense to most people)

Pick Armor and Shield on level 1, Protection from Missiles is level 2 IIRC, Haste on level 3, and so on, then cast on yourself for preference and cut shit up.

>>52909051
Nteresring.
Best combo to go with a thief? 2 man game.

File: atlantis-01-rocio-espin-pinar.jpg (680KB, 1920x1374px) Image search: [Google]

680KB, 1920x1374px

Alright, /osrg/, just ran my players through Tower of the Stargazer. Only one character died (damn door) and they want to do something really, really weird. After some thinking, I came upon an idea for an adventure: Atlantis.

My idea is that Atlantis was real and wasn't wiped out by earthquakes and waves but rather those plus being faded into another dimension.

Beyond that, I have no clue how to proceed. Should I have the island-continent pop back into existence? The party fades into the dimension Atlantis disappeared to? What sort of crazy shit can I add to it. I'm thinking of making it a hexcrawl with ruins, crazy natives and shit like that. Any suggestions and shit would be greatly appreciated.

File: ram2.jpg (160KB, 514x800px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 514x800px

>>52910093
It went into dreams, and can therefore only be accessed while sleeping.

>>52910120
Interesting. Would open the game up to some interesting shit.

Anything else? Monster ideas? Treasures the party could reasonably manage to bring back from Dream Atlantis?

Maybe they fuck with some magic node and Atlantis crashes into the "real world" again?

File: at21.jpg (146KB, 580x285px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 580x285px

>>52910093
Have you ever played the point-and-click adventure game Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis? I always liked how Atlantis was portrayed in that game, and the last part of the game is almost like a dungeon crawl through the city.

>>52910313
>Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
Can't say that I have. Knowing Indiana Jones though, no relics were preserved and lots of Nazis dies or something.

>>52907763
>Higher level modules assume that the players already have experience and items gained from easier dungeons.
Not even part of your argument, but I fail to see how this is an issue. MacGyver off a shoestring, if need be.

File: _resize.php.jpg (81KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 640x480px

>>52910399
>Knowing Indiana Jones though, no relics were preserved and lots of Nazis dies or something.
That's correct. They try to use orichalcum to become gods but end up blowing up the city. It's a fun time.

>>52910093
>they want to do something really, really weird.
The sensation of "weird" in narratives comes from incongruous or even contradictory things which nevertheless seem rich in implications. So for instance, if you just do "they go through a dimension portal and find Atlantis" that won't come off as weird or alien, they'll just integrate that into their model of the physical laws of the universe and Atlantis will be like Bakersfield but maybe with a trickier route to get there. (This incidentally is a really common failure mode, especially when playing with geeks and sperglords. Since their default setting is beancounting a referee can get really frustrated by "players ruining my setting and making it mundane" or "refusing to play along" blabla while unable or unwilling to realize that it's his own fault. In OSR games especially you WANT players to be able to lay plans based on known facts, so if you don't want them to mundanize something it's on YOU to make that impossible.)

Instead, what you have to do is say, they find a dimensional portal to lost Atlantis, but when they're there they meet a guy from 19th century France who claims they're just part of a recurring dream he has. Later, a rocketship crashes having seemingly come from the future of the PCs' own world, on an exploration mission to a distant solar system. The PCs find they can't open a portal back to their own world and time, and when queried, the sages of Atlantis deny any knowledge of dimensional shenanigans, etc. etc. Basically, stuff that lets them operate on the essential, daily level of exploration and adventure but keeps undermining their understanding of the metaphysics of the cosmos.

On the other hand, if you just want to do a solid Atlantis game, I'd take this guy's advice. >>52910313 Never been a better portrayal. The comic of it is good too, it fleshes some stuff out.

>Decided to write up my dungeon notes in two column format with an entry for each room

This is taking several hours but I can't quit now, help me anakin.

>>52911235
This is how I do it and why is it taking you more time than usual?

File: Screenshot_750.png (63KB, 749x347px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 749x347px

>>52908002
>If he rolled a 1 or a 2, he wouldn't have hit at all
Pic related disproves this

>>52911644
Because I'm new and not used to it. I'm fleshing out a sketch as I'm going, preparing those little details that make the rooms worth exploring and not just a statement. It's looking like a fun dungeon though, but it takes time to make a fun dungeon!

>>52911798
Oh I thought the 2-column format was the problem.
If it helps, remember that you don't need actual prose (unless you want to publish it). You can do a 'tag cloud' description and it'll be just as good and actually faster since you can get a general mood even before you read the rest of the entry.
>3. Ruined kitchen, spooky, still used, mold, human hands nailed to doors.

File: Caves A - grid and key.png (16KB, 649x810px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 649x810px

Alright, I need some spicy hot opinions on this maps I made in MSpaint
>is it readable?
>how's the size?
>etc.?

>>52911958
Some people (Bryce comes to mind) prefer the wordcloud-y stuff.

>>52912178
Looks just fine, perhaps you could add some connectors so it's less backtrack-ish? A2-A4 Maybe?
Add some water currents if you don't want another corridor - those take you fast in one direction, slow in another, and items dropped must be retrieved quick or lost.

>Bryce
who?

>>52912306
>A2-A4 Maybe?
Eh, let me think about it.

>who?
http://tenfootpole.org/ironspike/

File: hellotg.pdf (89KB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 1x1px

>>52911958
Yeah, I should probably do the tag cloud more. This is how I did now, I bolded the features that I'm about to describe to help guide the eye. I like how the tag cloud condenses the stuff down better, maybe I'll have that as a complement for the longer entries.

>>52911719
In that case, it's a completely uninteresting mechanic that only serves to create a power fantasy.

>>52912690
>7. Room with creepy statue
(Empty)
Nice, short and easy to parse.

>The staircase from above leads down into this room.
>Staircase; Made of stone, leads up to the surface.
Bad, meaningless details, redundant, hard to read. My take:

1. Staircase to surface (Empty)
20x20' stone room, walls covered in brown/yellow tent fabric.
An opening behind a courtain (NW wall) leads to room 2 (kobold noises).

You can then add more details, but I'd keep the vital info short and readable.
Hope it helps.

>>52912834
Yeah, thanks! I'll definitely change it up. Good feedback.

>>52912834
>Stone staircase leading up

How's that? I feel the material the stairs are made of would be easy enough to add and might become relevant in some crazy scheme.

>>52912927
If players ask about the material, you can improvise.

Why does Sword & Wizadry and od&d have caps for non-human classes?

>>52913053
To balance out the fact that they're much stronger than humans on early levels.

>>52913053
OD&D has it (a) to stop subhumans from owning land in your CHAINMAIL campaign, (b) to explain why the longer lived species aren't flooded with high level NPCs, and (c) as a poor attempt to balance subhuman powers.
Swords & Wizardry has it because it's (mostly) trying to be loyal to OD&D.

>>52912814
I believe the goal of it was to avoid the typical "I attack, you attack" exchange that became commonplace.
It's not bad, but I feel people are overrating far too much around these parts.

>>52913336
The old players of course know you can do all manner of crazy shit in games, regardless of there not being any distinct rules or feats for them, and I'm sure the designers of DCC knew this as well - but the newbies do not, and giving them distinct mechanics for it will ease them in on the old-school roleplaying.

Anybody tried running a game without initiative?

Simply telling the players what the enemies are doing, letting them react & dice it, rinse and repeat.
Critters attack ordered by weapon range, first bows then pikes then daggers. Ties happen at the same time and both attackers can die.
(I think JG had a table for this order in the RRSheets, but that's the basics)

>>52913381
I somewhat agree with that, but there's the problem of there being no similar alternative for other classes.
Nothing you can't homebrew in, but it's still a bit odd if that was the intended idea behind it.

>>52913498
>weapon speeds

>>52913595
Clerics and wizards had a lot of options in their spells, and all the more so as subsequent editions and books and Dragon Magazines each added to them. DCC reined them in by reducing the number of spells, but also made each spell more distinctive and powerful.

Thieves always had their thieving skills and backstab, of course, and DCC buffs both significantly. I wouldn't therefore say they didn't have options.

>>52903151
CHANGING THINGS IS BAD HUUUUURRRRR

>>52913498
>Anybody tried running a game without initiative?
I used to do it all the time. It works well.

>Critters attack ordered by weapon range, first bows then pikes then daggers. Ties happen at the same time and both attackers can die.
This is more structured than I usually went. I just went with whoever it seemed would logically go next. Granted, the things you mentioned were important factors in my decisions, but things weren't rigidly formalized.

>>52903087
>Paladin (1e, Cavalier)
Isn't the Calalier a separate class?

>>52913707
Not in Unearthed Arcana, IIRC

Charm Monster says that they can make a saving throw vs magic to avoid its effects. What is the base number for this? A Fighter of equal levels stats?

>>52913764

Yep. Most Monster Manual critters save as a fighter of level=HD.

>>52913764
A fighter of level equal to their HD, yes.

Although sometimes wizard or thief can be substituted, if the monster is clearly a spellcaster or some sort of a stalker thing, but they rarely state this outright.

>>52913764
Depends on the system but usually monsters save as a fighter of the same HD unless otherwise noted.

>>52913707
>>52913743

The first official publication of the Cavalier is in the 1e Unearthed Arcana where it became a base class of which the Paladin was a sub-class. It had been published previously in Dragon Magazine.

The cavalier was widely regarded as exceptionally overpowered and had balancing factors related to social class and other role-playing level restrictions. They were a mistake.

File: why do the Blue Mages not have turbans.jpg (18KB, 271x410px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 271x410px

>>52913919
And paladins abilities went *on top* of that?

File: maxresdefault.jpg (161KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

161KB, 1920x1080px

>>52914053
Correct.

I'm still rather fond of cavaliers, though. They make for hilarious and memorable NPCs.

>>52913701
Cool, any tips before I jump into the void? Any gotchas?
And yeah, those things would just guidelines. Makes sense that the spear attacks before a charging sword, but obviously a dagger will be faster in a small corridor.

>>52914667
>Cool, any tips before I jump into the void? Any gotchas?
Honestly, no. It really all comes down to your judgment. Just try extra hard to give all the player characters an even shake (the more you rely solely on your own judgment, the easier it is to inadvertently play favorites). I still used initiative rolls / dex check at strategic points to determine who went next, but generally between two opposing combatants rather than rolling for entire teams (two characters are sent tumbling and I want to see which of them recovers first, for instance). So in this context, initiative rolls are used to resolve face-offs, when they're used at all.

But really, going freeform is the easiest thing in the world, as there are no rules you have to obey, and you can just go with what seems right. It might feel weird for a while, but combat is bound to seem more organic and immersive.

What do you think about moving the initiative bonus to WIS and allow the highest initiative bonus to be used in group initiative?

>>52916476

Sounds fine to me. The most clever side gets the drop on the other guys.

>>52913119
>(a) to stop subhumans from owning land in your CHAINMAIL campaign, (b) to explain why the longer lived species aren't flooded with high level NPCs, and (c) as a poor attempt to balance subhuman powers.
and all of those reasons are garbage ones

>>52912178
It's legible, and the size is okay if a bit small (printed out it will look greebly as fuck or else very small). I agree with the other guy that it's very linear, though.

>>52918189

t. elf supremacist

>>52918189
B) kind of does apply since those races live much longer than humans and thus would have a lot longer while to reach maximum level, virtually guaranteeing they will all do so by the end. So the maximum level has to be lower.

I allow my players to go above it, though, reasoning that it's just for the general non-heroic civilization and they're the main characters. They're the exception.