Definitive Examples of People with a 20 in a stat

what a shit thread

>>52841325
That Milana Vayntrub, she's hot.

>>52841330
To be fair to OP, she is a qt.

>>52841325
idk who this is, so maybe she is very persuasive or what have you, but she doesn't look top 1% for attractiveness or whatever the percentile is for a 20 given 10 as average

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20 Con

>>52841325
>Tits are too small
>bangs
>eyes are squinty
>ears are too big
>stupid expression on her face

CHA=15 at best

Would not bang.

>>52841418
>Too skinny
>No muscle tone
> "Lungs" look underdeveloped

14 Con at best....

Would not run a marathon race with.

>>52841418
Well, her asshole sure does have 20 Con...

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20 STR
20 INT
20 AGL
20 LCK
20 CAR
20 END

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>>52841436
incorrect

>>52841325
>needs to do something different with her hair
>head is very round and wide
>open your eyes, damnit
>and smile. Women are way prettier when they smile.
>tits are too large. DFC > anything else

I'd give her a 14-15 CHA at best. Still bangable, though.

>>52841694
>>52841436
I think the idea is that she's got enough charisma to make you buy a phone from AT&T which is no mean feat

Jeez, you nerds always judging women on their looks alone...

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>>52841325
This is more in the realm of 20 Cha.

>>52841436
>Tits are too small

>>52841694
>tits are too large.

Remember, physical appearance doesn't dictate charisma, because a lot of the importance of physical appearance is personal preference

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Str 20 - Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson, professional strongman, actor

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>>52841325
>>52841418
>20 Cha
>20 Con
Why not both?

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Dex 20 - Tatchakorn Yeerum, actor, director, choreographer and buddhist monk.

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Con 20 - Paula Radcliffe, distance runner, current word's best holder in marathon.

>>52841418
20 anal circumference

>>52841732
>>52841788
Well, seeing as how we only have a picture and not anything detailing her personality, I would say appearance is the only thing we CAN judge in this instance. If her picture was accompanied with something else, I would judge differently. So saying she has a 14 CHA, plus or minus depending on personality, would be a fair assessment.

The only thing I assume is she's from some commercial and I don't watch television.

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>>52841325
She's probably 14-16 but definitely not 20.
Pic related has a 20 in charisma.

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Int 20 - Samuel Benjamin Harris, author, philosopher, cognitive neuroscientist

>>52841814
>Why not both?
Fate points are cheating.

>>52841894
>int 16
>wis 6

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Wis 20 - Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist, author, educator

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Cha 20 - Dwayne Johnson, actor, singer, professional wrestler

>>52841879
>The only thing I assume is she's from some commercial and I don't watch television.
The wardrobe people ugly her up for the commercials. She normally looks like this >>52841657

>>52841920

He definintely upsets an unwise number of people

>>52841930
>wis
nah its cleary int

>>52841871
Knowing that comes from d100 system kind of ruins the joke.

>>52842003

The wardrobe people likely had a signifcant part in both images, to say nothing of the graphic design department.

>>52841480
No it doesn't, she had to quit because her doctor was threatening to put her in a diaper.

>>52842047

A case could be made. But who then would you put for Wis 20?

>>52842086

Sounds more like the director of a fetish video threatening that.

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>>52841325
Cha: 20

>>52842121
Someone with survival sense like Bear Grylls or a spiritualist like the Dalai Lama would have high WIS.

>>52841892
Bowie had 30 charisma.

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>>52841418
Someone explain her popularity to me. She isn't really hot and her natural expression looks like this weird combination between condescension, being half-asleep and full retard. Is it because she does the most extreme shit, is that alone what makes her popular?

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WIS and quite possibly CHA

>>52841814
Honestly, he probably also deserves a 20 int and wis

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20 Cha

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20 Charisma

>>52841930
>implying 20

>>52842314
>moon druid

>>52842235
It's more that for plenty of people she's the first "adult actress" name they will think of. I mean the normies, outside of 4chan. I wouldn't dare to dispute Bailey Jay's dominion over these realms. Did a bit of everything, up to and including regular acting, is quite sociable (usually while maintaining the mean-bitch persona, but that still works), knows how to self-advertise.

>>52842414
Don't respond to frogposters.

>>52842414
Bailey jays getting too fat

>>52842517
Let's consider that my one random act of kindness for the day.

>>52842606
Aren't we all?

>>52842414
>>52842606
>Bailey Jay
That's the shemale one, isn't it?

>>52842675
We both know the confirmation of that hypothesis is one google search away...

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I can not believe I am the first to post the true 20cha legend.

>>52842740
Nah, he has charisma going into Epic values

>>52842228
>survival sense
>Bear Grylls
Please be trolling

>>52842740
how is he charismatic?
Even in the category of rockstar, i'd put pre-nutjob Michael Jackson in front of him.

>>52842228

Bear Grylls is an actor and the Dalai Lama is a hereditary monarch who believes in reincarnation. Neither strike me as exceptionally wise people.

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>>52842121
>>52842228
>>52842849
>>52842882
Pic related is the most obvious 20 Wis I can think of.

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20 WIS

>>52843035
6 CHA

>>52842995
Socrates was an upjumped moron who build a philosophical house of cards to jerk off onto.

He looked like a baby in a wizard costume.

>>52843083
one of us, one of us

>>52843083
Socrates was based as fuck. He knew true wisdom doesn't come from what you know, but rather from what you know you don't know.

>>52843035
>>52842995

Ok but how about living person?

>>52843285
That's a tough one.
Obvious troll answer would be head of a church, ideally Whatshisbeardedgoatshaggingface, the ISIS-founder.
Honest answer - can't think of present day philosopher what wouldn't be either "progressive" out of his ass or raging commie cunt.
Out of people I did consider wise in the classical sense - Mr. Rogers is dead. So is Pratchett.

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>>52841788
>Remember, physical appearance doesn't dictate charisma, because a lot of the importance of physical appearance is personal preference


That's right says sloth with his 20 Cha

>>52843373
>citadel_finecast.jpg

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Actual 20 cha

All his generals were in love with him

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>>52841325

>>52843617
Don't forget the GOOD. As in, so far up the scheme of alignments that there isn't even a neutral there- He's just plain Good.

>>52843836
>wife beater
>multiple arrests for roughing up hookers (3 times)
>Drank like ted kennedy
> once hit a production crew member with a coat rack

>>52841814
>35cm erect 13.7795 inches

>>52844198
Yeah... pretty sure that's all bullshit.

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20 con thanks to racial bonus

>>52844198
Sauce.

>>52844198
>lies and slander

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>>52841325
I think you know

>>52842856
Michael Jackson was the king of pop for a reason

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>>52844380
So about 30 con for this guy then?

http://www.drunkard.com/10_06_andre_giant/

>>52842699
>We both know the confirmation of that hypothesis is one google search away...
But then he would need to look at her dick, if she/he is a shemale/transex

>>52841769
>regular succubi have a charisma of 26

Cestree is a loser by succubi standards.

The ranger in my Friday night DnD group is orc hot.

>>52844397

CNN

>>52843517
they murdered him

>>52844415
I believe it.

You think anon would make it up?

People don't come to the internet and tell lies. That would make no sense.

>>52843517
Not that hard when homosexuality is common and you get to hire your generals.

>>52844671
>Roussimoff died in his sleep of congestive heart failure on the night of January 27, 1993, in a Paris hotel room.
>died at 46
No.

>>52844736
Because he loved the cock.

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>>52842314
The Capybara is the most chill animal on the planet
He has no natural predators and everyone thinks he is a cool dude

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>>52844808
>has no natural predators

>>52844736
Nobody has any idea what killed Alexander. His contemporaries had no idea either and poisoning was just one of many possible causes

>>52842312
0 Int, Wis, and Cha.

>>52842314
This is more like it.

>>52844753
I was going by drinking capacity there, like the poster I responded to was. I mean, he told an anesthesiologist that it took him 2 liters of vodka to feel a little warm. That's about 3 bottles.
He's confirmed to have drank 119 beers in one evening, that's over 42 liters.

Besides, we could possibly attribute his early death to a flaw like "shortened lifespan" or similar.

>>52844767
no he was too powerful
on his deathbed, he bequeathed his empire to 'the strongest'
he knew he was betrayed so he said fuck it, let them burn it all down

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20 int
20 cha

>>52844879
Fair enough.

>>52841418
From what I can gather, she just did more fucked up shit than most mainstream porn performers in the early 2000s, and did it enthusiastically. Combine that with starting when she was 18, it was easy for her to stand out without looking all that much better.

>>52844896
That was likely made up. Many historians think he wouldn't have been able to talk at that point, others say he mentioned one of his generals by name and everyone just so happened to mishear him

>>52844910
>implying michael's intelligence can be quantified with bounded integers.

Michael's int is like Cain or the Lady of Pain's entire stat line - all you need to know is that he succeeds.

>>52841464
>>Too skinny
>>No muscle tone

he said CON not STR

>******look******

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20 Int

>>52844896
>o he was too powerful

He was a very powerful cock sucker. Yes.

>>52842312
>Trump
>Charismatic
Hes one of the least Charismatic people I have ever seen or heard
Hes fat, hes ugly, and he talks like a retarded used car salesman with dementia
I have no idea how he got so many Americans to fall for his bullshit

>>52845180
we are not a clever people.

>>52844985
Skinny is often a sign of a low con. Not just str.

>>52845180
In our defense, the majority didn't vote for him.

>>52845180
Star power and Hope, gives a certain charisma.

We may not have loved Trump, and may not have been sure what he'd do.....but we KNEW that hillary HATED us.

>>52845180
Assuming most people have WIS 10, he doesn't need a high amount, just enough exposure.

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>>52841325
3 INT

>>52845180
>implying implications

I dunno about you, but charisma is the #1 thing I see in the guy. Don't like his foreign policy, domestic is too heavy-handed, and though he occasionally does a thing I like he's an insufferable ass. Plus libertyfag so the state is bad to begin with.

That being said, the dude's got Charisma. He got half the goddamn country to think he was a common man like them, despite being born to a billionaire family and always living a cushy life, and on top of that screwed thousands while convincing those very people he's doing the good thing.

0 wis, med int, high Cha. Kinda like how Bill Clinton is stupid and a bad speaker, but everything you hear (arkansasfag) from people who've met him- even opponents- say he makes you feel like the only guy in the room.

>>52845261
>NYC and LA didn't like him, that's all that should matter, right?

>Our team scored more yards, but lost the game, that's not right!

>>52845290
>That being said, the dude's got Charisma. He got half the goddamn country to think he was a common man like them
technically, less than 1/4 the country.

>>52845290
>despite being born to a billionaire family

Fake news. Nice try CNN.

>>52845295
>those durn city folk shouldn't have a say in our country
>votes? what is this a democracy?

>>52842414
>mean-bitch persona
I always got the impression she was a pretty friendly person and assumed that was part of her appeal.

>>52845180

It's clearly charisma, even if you don't like it and it looks odd. Any top-flight politician has minimum 15 CH, at least in-person.

>>52845324
>NYC and LA should set all policies, cause we're progressive and we love fags
>I don't understand how the electoral college works, it's like magic or sumthing.

>>52845324
It's not a direct democracy, that would be senseless.

>>52845324
>>52845352
and then they started fucking.

>>52845355
But our team got 5 hits! We didn't score, but we had 5 hits.....the other team only had 4 hits and got 4 scores! We should have won!!!

>>52845290

Clinton was a rhodes scholar and was famous for having an obsession with personally tinkering with economic policy minutia. I know people don't like to hear it, but all presidents are extremely intelligent, though some (Trump, Reagan) are uninterested in policy details.

>>52845381
No fucking. I'm sore from jerking off to the youtube videos of the lefty's crying after trump spanked hillary.

It's the most erotic thing I've ever seen.

>>52845295
The point of an election is to have a leader that the people want. In that case, what the majority wants is really important. In football, yards aren't the point, the overall score is. Your analogy doesn't work.

>>52845385
>she was so smart, she'd channel the spirit of dead first ladies while she was in the white house.
And bragged about it in her book.

>>52845432
>People want

STATES elect a president here you commie fuckwad.

>>52845352
Even with straight popular vote, NYC and LA wouldn't be enough to get a majority. They have a lot of people, LA county has 10 million and NYC has 8 million. But there are more than 300 million people in the US. Even California and New York taken as states don't get you a majority.

The idea that they would get to set policy on their own with a popular vote is simply wrong. They don't have a majority. They don't have anywhere near a majority.

Besides, we already have the senate to give massive overrepresentation to small and rural states.

>>52845458
States are legal entities, not people. They're not a person any more than a contract is a person. Why should they get to decide who governs actual flesh and blood human beings? Next you'll say that corporations should be able to vote. They're not people, they're agreements. It is the people in the states who should get to decide who runs their government.

>>52845560
Ok, you hate the constitution.

>>52845560
>Next you'll say that corporations should be able to vote. They're not people, they're agreements.
>They're not people
Oh how wrong, sadly sadly wrong, you are.

>>52845560
>Why should they get to decide who governs actual flesh and blood human beings? Next you'll say that corporations should be able to vote. They're not people, they're agreements. It is the people

lol.....hillary fucked your socialist bernie..and then he went and sucked her ass......after buying his 3rd vacation home.

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>>52845560
Please shut up before you say more stupid shit and continue this inevitable path to a /pol/ topic. By the way all the left leaning people on /tg/ need to calm the fuck down when /pol/ makes an obscure reference its shitting up the board.

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>>52841325
20 DEX

>>52845762

You're messing with my fetish. Watching commiefags freak out over every little thing, is my porn.

See in my day, Comeliness would be the trait here. And then I have no idea if she really has Cha beyond her Com score because she's just nice to look at.

>>52845769
16 dex, 16 con, 16 str,
3 int, 3 wis

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>>52841325
20 WIS

Sometimes you just have to machine gun a motherfucker.

>>52845560
Because Direct Democracy is super retarded and never works, which has been an understood fact since fucking Plato.

>>52845887
Choosing a president by popular vote isn't direct democracy. Direct democracy would be the popular vote actually deciding what laws were passed.

>>52845934
are you only pretending to be retarded?

>>52845612
Under US law they are said to have perpetual existence. As long as shares of a corporation are held by anyone, the corporation continues to exist. This means that they are, in essence, immortal.

People are mortal. Corporations are immortal. Therefore corporations are not people.

>>52845950
No, I'm just saying what the definition of the term is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy
> Direct democracy (also known as pure democracy) is a form of democracy in which people decide (e.g. vote on, form consensus on) policy initiatives directly.
Electing a president by popular vote is still representative democracy, not direct democracy, because you are electing a representative to decide policy rather than voting directly on matters of policy.

>>52845950
>are you only pretending to be retarded?
>>52846011
>No

>>52846069
Have you stopped beating your kids? Yes or no?

>>52845496
> Besides, we already have the senate to give massive overrepresentation to small and rural states.
And we already have the House of Representatives to give massive overrepresentation to you city vermin, so why the fuck should we also give the power to pick the president to the teeming mass of shitskins you're breeding?

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>>52844877
>>52845180

>>52842314
only good post, this thread is garbage

>>52845385

Clinton is famously a policy wonk, but so was Reagan. The claims that he was an idiot are refuted by his private diaries even if you don't believe the people who worked closely with him. He kept his speeches simple but was very into policy minutae.

>>52845441

Her own IQ is overrated, but the guy you responded to is referring to Bill, who really was pretty damn knowledgeable.

We won't know about Trump until long after he's out of office but I recall back when he was known mostly as a businessman (and at the time a Democrat) even his many enemies said he was very very smart.

Cha 20 is off the scale. For Cha 18, let's try Jim Jones of the people's church. Go watch a bio on him.

>>52844198
That's generous for a Muslim.

>>52845560

Whatever your private views on what the process should be, what it IS is what both candidates were trying to win. The football analogy is apt for two reasons. First, I could just as easily argue that the rules SHOULD make the team that runs more yards the winner. Should, you say, but doesnt.

Second, because euros have no clue about American football, American politics, or why the system works the way it does.

>>52845599

Yeah, so? It's an old piece of paper written by a bunch of white male slaveowners to protect their class interests.

>>52842740
20 is too low for Freddie. His Charisma stat just says "automatic success."

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>>52841325
20 STR, 20 DEX, 20 CON, ?? INT, 20 WIS, 20 CHA

We just don't know how smart he was. But it was probably over 12 at least. I mean, he had to have ONE dumpstat, right?

>>52846249
> why the system works the way it does.
It works the way it does because it was written that way more than 200 years ago when the only way to get word around was to literally send a person on a horse to ride between towns. And the idea that the electors should vote with the general electorate of the state they represent is itself something that wasn't originally part of it because they didn't think the people could reasonably decide who should be president.

>>52846331
>>52846368
Typical liberals. Nothing but contempt for our highest laws.

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>>52842047
Neil sometimes acts like a douche, he has 20 int and some wis, but not 20
>>52842121
Carl Sagan was a wise motherfucker, and had high int and car also

>>52846542
what kind of car?

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>>52844808
>no natural predators
You know nothing summer child

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>>52846584
A porsche 914

>>52841802
That guy cheated on his character creation

>>52841802
what's funny is that for d20 systems like D&D, his record of pulling 1430 pounds would stat him as 29+ STR

>>52846368
>only way to get word around was to literally send a person on a horse
>didn't think the people could reasonably decide who should be president
They might have had a point

>>52846777
The first part of that is definitely no longer true.

>>52846109
You're making a good case for more beatings

>>52844671
>Be 7'2", 320 pounds
>Am adviced not to put on much more weight because my bones won't take it lightly
>Andre was only 2 inches taller, but over 200 pounds heavier
>Before modern SEM
How?

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20 Cha

>>52845289
More like 20 int

Sheik knows what's up.

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>>52842740
A d100 system is inadequate to express the wealth of charisma the Champion of the World possesses. Under the storytelling system, he'd be awarded an automatic 5 successes on any social roll.

>>52845295
Half the country didn't even vote. That's why we can't have a real democracy, only the extremists vote and leftards will always be more by the very nature of their cult-like integration.

>>52846950
People not voting is a part of the democratic process.

>>52845823
>immediately finding an obtuse but functional solution to a problem
>3 int
I think the one who's lacking on int is you.

>>52847012
People don't vote because our electoral system makes it just a choice between two candidates, and you might not like either of them. Compare that to places like Germany, the Netherlands, or other nations with proportional representation. They have much higher voter turnout in part because you can have tons of parties with tons of candidates, and your vote is never "wasted" because it goes to that party's total, thus contributing to them getting more seats. First past the post, by comparison, means that you're stuck with only two choices.

>>52847177
Given sufficient voter representation the candidate's party is donated money by the federal government during the next election cycle. The vote isn't wasted. People are simply not getting what they want *now* and choosing to support the winning candidate by not voting at all.

>>52842856
Have you ever seen Queen live? That man could move nations.

>>52847029

A squirrel can do the same.

A 20 INT person would have taken the stairs or found a safer method of getting up there.

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>>52841325
Max ranks in Bluff

>>52847294
Spotted the fat neckbeard.
Do you even lift bro?

>>52847294
Cowardice isn't intelligence regardless of what your mommy taught you.

>>52847177
>Compare that to places like Germany, the Netherlands, or other nations with proportional representation.

Ok, um......good for the fucking germans?

Here in the US, that's not legal. Just because the progs lost, doesn't mean that laws don't apply still. If the US wants to change the constitution, then there are methods for that.

>>52847209
> Given sufficient voter representation the candidate's party is donated money by the federal government during the next election cycle. The vote isn't wasted.
It's wasted because in first past the post, strategic voting causes the vast majority of the vote to gravitate toward the two biggest candidates in order to avoid a spoiler effect. Supporting a third party in a first past the post system is just a surefire why of getting the main party candidate that you hate the most. Sure, the third party candidate that you voted for might get some more funding the next time around, but even then the exact same problem remains. If you have two candidates, the third party candidate and the main part candidate that he is most alike will split the vote of their supporters and ensure that the other main party candidate will win.

First past the post guarantees a two party system. If you want there to be more choices, you have to get rid of first past the post.

>>52847320
It's not cowardice to simply not do retarded things.

>wanna climb this rock wall? We might die, but it'll be awesome!
>No, I don't want to do that.
>ZOMG COWARD!!!

>Wanna shove this burning torch up your ass?
>No, I don't want to do that.
>ZOMG COWARD!!!

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>>52847294
>A 20 INT person would have taken the stairs
missing the point entirely with this little smug response
pic related, you

>>52847177
>proportional representation

That's called the House of reps.

Where ALL laws on a federal level must start.

>>52847324
Yeah, it is good for them that they have a better system.

> Just because the progs lost
This isn't about progressives or conservatives. Germany, for example, has a conservative government running it right now. The point is that a system of proportional representation is much better at actually providing the people with meaningful choices.

> doesn't mean that laws don't apply still
Never said they didn't. What I'm saying is that we should change them.

>>52841325
why does she have gook eyes?
i'd fuck her but she aint a 20 cha

>>52847390
>a system of proportional representation is much better at actually providing the people with meaningful choices.

Again, that's called the HOUSE.

It's entirely proportional .

Germany is a fucking muslim shithole anyway. Where the cops are too scared to even go into certain districts. That's the system you admire?

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>>52847367
> That's called the House of reps.

No, it isn't. The house of representatives still uses a first past the post voting system.

What proportional representation means is more complicated than just a state getting X number of seats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation
Proportional representation means that if a party gets X% of the vote, it gets X% of the seats. That's not how the US house of representatives works. In the house, you have individual house districts that vote between (generally two) candidates and the one with the most votes gets the seat. That's still first past the post. It leads to situations where one party could get a majority of the vote over all, while the other party gets a majority (or in the case in this pic, a supermajority) of the seats.

> Where ALL laws on a federal level must start.
No, just ones relating to taxes. Other laws can start in either chamber.

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>>52847358
You say that but I bet you do get into cars no probs. A split second lack of attention or simple mistake could have you crash at very high speed, likely resulting in death. But a driver is confident in his driving skills, just like the gentleman of african american descent is confident in his climbing skills.

>>52843362
Kendrick?

>>52847429
> Again, that's called the HOUSE.
> It's entirely proportional.
Look up what proportional representation actually means. The House of Representatives is not that. Like the electoral college, it can produce results that aren't actually proportional to the way the electorate voted simply because of the way the lines are drawn. An actual proportional system divides up the seats based on what percentage of the vote each party received.

>>52847290
>>52842856
Seriously, I haven't seen many people with his level of stage presence.

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>>52847453
>No, just ones relating to taxes. Other laws can start in either chamber.

No anon. Just no.

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>>52847429
Don't like Germany? That's fine, there are plenty of other countries that use some variant of proportional representation.

>>52847483
>Like the electoral college, it can produce results that aren't actually proportional to the way the electorate voted simply because of the way the lines are drawn.

That's stupid, and would never fly in the US.

States send elected reps. As the founders intended.

>>52841930
0/10; bait the hook somewhere else.

>>52847496
Revenue bills have to start in the house. Other bills can start in either chamber.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origination_Clause

"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."
Article 1, Section 7 of the Constitution.

>>52842312
No.

He's not charismatic.

Everyone that believes him just has -10 Int.

>>52847499
That map isn't a good way to push your "proportional" bullshit.

>Mexico
>S. American shit holes of corruption

I see a pattern..

>>52846593
That is clearly coming after the camera person.

>>52847390
No one gives a fuck about what you want, dipshit. Democracy is marxism. Ochlocracy is inherently oligarchy and the United States is a republic. That you're too lazy or stupid to open a civics textbook for five fucking minutes and figure out how a republic operates is your problem, not the country's. Cry harder and suck Hillary's cock somewhere else, because you will never get a direct election in this country.

>>52847516
The founders also intended for people to be able to own other people. Laws can change. Sometimes they really should be.

Besides, if you really want region representatives, there is a mixed-member proportional system that has both representatives by region while also using a proportional distribution system to ensure that the end result is in line with how the people actually voted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-member_proportional_representation

>>52847523
>>>/leftypol/
Either be less transparent or just shut up.
>>52847548
>>>52847516 #
The founders also intended for people to be able to own other people.
You seriously think this will work. You actually, honestly believe that this is a real argument.
>Sometimes they really should be.
Well, cry some more, bitch. This one isn't changing.
>Besides, if you really want region representatives, there is a mixed-member proportional system
Yeah, it's called THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE. And then each state (fuck you, Nebraska) has one, too.
>ensure that the end result is in line with how the people actually voted.
It was. The people got what they wanted.

>>52847532
Note that Japan also has the same system as Mexico. Mexico's corruption isn't because they have a poor system for allocating seats in their legislature. It's because the cartels are able to rake in huge profits off of the drug trade, buy out almost everyone, and kill the ones they can't buy.

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>>52842517

>>52845332
Doesn't she play D&D as well?

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>>52843517
Alexander was a pretty boy running around with his daddy's army. His own troops munitied. Pic related is true 20 Cha. He unified different races and religions to the point that they were not only willing to cross a mountain range for him, but also wage a 16 year long war of attrition against one of the most feared militaries of the age.

>>52847521
Until a house rep sponsors the bill, and puts it forward, it goes no where, no matter who the fuck wrote it.

Because step one.........is the HOUSE.

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>>52844198
I'm not even mad, Anon. I'm just disappointed.

>>52847575
>Yeah, it's called THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE. And then each state (fuck you, Nebraska) has one, too.
No, the house and the senate are not a mixed-member proportional system.

Here's an explanation of it that even a child can understand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU

>>52847586
>Note that Japan also has the same system as Mexico

Japan has a similar system, but is missing a key ingredient. Mexicans.

>>52847612
No one cares about your marxist fantasy. The 17th amendment is going to be repealed, which will FURTHER remove us from your direct democracy bullshit.

>>52841892
Bowie couldn't actually be statted for CHA; when attempts were made, mathematicians called in went mad.

>>52847600
Bills other than revenue bills can be first introduced in the Senate as well. The only restriction on where a bill must start is that revenue bills must start in the house. Any other type of bill can start in either chamber.

>>52847586
>Mexico's corruption isn't because they have a poor system for allocating seats in their legislature. It's because the cartels are able to rake in huge profits off of the drug trade, buy out almost everyone, and kill the ones they can't buy.

Notice how everyone that defends utter failures (like mexico, or communism), always blame the failures on anything but the system they're promoting?

Mexico has that system, and the cartels simply bribe the officials.

How's that some magic solve everything system?

Germany has that system, and it's over run with rapefugees and muslims (redundant i know). How's that a good system then?

>>52847625
> marxist fantasy
Proportional representation has nothing to do with the workers seizing the means of production.

> your direct democracy bullshit.
Proportional representation isn't direct democracy. You're still electing representatives to make policy, so it's still representative democracy.

>>52846852
Well, he did only live to be 46.

>>52843035
TRUTH.

>>52847630
Bzzzt. Wrong. Bills have to start in the house.

Democracy was a mistake. Here in hueland we got an actual clown elected for congress with well over a million votes. A fucking illiterate clown takes decisions on my behalf. And the worse is that this is hardly a problem when looking at the big picture, here we measure corruption scandals by the billions.

I wish Brasília just got nuked once and for all.

>>52847652
>lol democracy has nothing to do with marxism I've never read the works of the man i fellate, therefore there's no way my opponent has
Please try harder.

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>>52842856

>Michael Jackson
>rockstar

No.
And Freddie Mercury has that kiddie diddler beaten across the board.

>>52847649
How about Americans stop buying drugs and exporting guns to Mexico and it might go somewhere

>>52847649
> How's that some magic solve everything system?
It's not going to solve everything. I never said it would. But it will be an improvement. You won't be stuck with a terrible two-party system where a huge chunk of the population doesn't bother to vote because they don't like either of the major candidates. Proportional representation means more choices and more meaningful choice. What you do with that is up to you.

>>52847670
> DEMOCRACY IS MARXISM
Wow, American education really is shitty.

>>52847679

We're capitalists. We buy, we sell. Maybe mexico should set up a system like ours, and they wouldn't be a shit hole?

>>52847679
> exporting guns to Mexico
Doesn't happen anymore. The whole Fast and Furious debacle was under obongo, and he's out.

>>52847687
We have two parties. They can't agree.

In what fucking fantasy world would anything be solved by adding a dozen more parties?

And, we've got a lot of parties here, but they're irrelevant. If you changed the constitution, we'd still only have two relevant parties.....and they still wouldn't get shit done.

>>52847705
Why so that Mexico can follow America's trend of rich getting richer and poor getting poorer, besides the guns aren't even being exported legally.

>>52845385
EXPLAIN BUSH THE JUNIOR

>>52847679
Beaners love to blame everyone but themselves. Fact is that America didn't put a gun to your heads and force you to become a bunch of psychotic animals. You chose to do that yourselves.

>>52847748
>Take all the money from everyone in the US.
>divide it equally
>In 5 years, 99% of people will be exactly where they were before

>>52847669
Well, you did just revoke the concept of citizenship (anyone from anywhere can have any benefits at any time), so Brazil should be a failed state within 5 years.
>>52847703
>Marx expressly says that democracy is marxism
>HURRRRRRRRRRR I PRETEND IT NOT LOL NOW I WIN
Please fellate a loaded weapon.

>>52842856
Kys desu

>>52847748
>lol the problem with the world is capitalism not marxism and the federal reserve lol
>how does economics?
Try more. Or at all.

>>52847743
> In what fucking fantasy world would anything be solved by adding a dozen more parties?
More choices means that the people get to vote for the people/party that they actually like, rather than the one that they despise slightly less. Also, coalitions exist. They're how nations with proportional representation function. Germany, for example, isn't anywhere near as paralzyed politically as the US is. Their legislature is actually capable of doing things, rather than just sitting around and getting paid to do nothing like the US Congress.

> If you changed the constitution, we'd still only have two relevant parties
Not if you had a proportional system. Additional parties would be able to assert themselves and actually get seats in Congress. The duopoly that the Democrats and the Republicans have on political power would be broken. This can be seen in nations that do have proportional representation. They have plenty of parties, not just two.

>>52847802
>Brazil should be a failed state within 5 years.
This would be a correct statement if we were talking some 120 years ago. We're already too far gone, I just need a couple more years to jump the ship. Gonna move to 'straya, learn shitposting with the masters.

>>52845180
>I have no idea how he got so many Americans to fall for his bullshit
A large segment of the population idolizes assholes, particularly rich assholes. Like, being an asshole shows how tough and cool you are.

Also, let's not oversell shit. Trump got fewer votes than Hillary Clinton, an unlikable woman who Republicans spent a quarter century vilifying.

>>52847748
take your hands off my wallet, damn commie

>>52847586
Cartels are a meme excuse only americans believe in.
Everyone who has set foot in mexico imediatelly notce it's a shameless oligarchy with a puppet government and fake political parties pretending there's democracy instead of corporate serfdom, and that at least 60% of the stolen money trails right into America..

>>52847802
> Marx expressly says that democracy is marxism
First off, that's not what he. He said that democracy might lead to communism, but since communism is a stupid pipe dream that can't actually exist in the real world, he was clearly wrong on that count.

Second, democracy predates Marx by a long time. Saying that democracy is Marxism would require that Marx have a fucking time machine.

>>52847821
>more choices means
No, you fucking dipshit. Are you a moral relativist or something?
>coalitions
So… not anything the people want. Just more oligarchy. Got it.
>>52847851
>Trump got fewer votes
>ignore that illegals voted
>ignore that we proved voter fraud by Hillary in every single state
Hmm.

>>52847865
>Everyone who has set foot in mexico imediatelly notce...
please get better at saying what you mean. You do not mean this. Try again.

>>52847877
> No, you fucking dipshit. Are you a moral relativist or something?
No.

Having more parties and candidates that have a wider range of platforms to choose from. That means that you're more likely to be able to find someone that you like and want to vote for.

> So… not anything the people want.
The people voted for the representatives, and the representatives govern. That's just representative democracy. If a party pisses its supporters off by forming a coalition with someone they don't like, they switch to another party. That's the strength of being able to pick and choose from many parties. You're not stuck with any one of them.

>>52845560

The reason the states decide is because if it really was a majority vote, then only a very few areas would matter. The densely populated northeast and certain areas along the west coast would be the ones making all of the decisions. Nobody in any of the middle states would have any kind of a voice and it would be just 5 or 6 states deciding things for the entire country.

>>52847821
>Germany, for example, isn't anywhere near as paralzyed politically as the US is. Their legislature is actually capable of doing things

Ya, bad things. Like carbon taxes and letting in murdering muslims by the trainload.

I wouldn't brag about that.

>>52844872
malaria

>>52847770
>>52847815
>>52847856
>poor people with delusions of success
Read the URL, if you made a meaningful living you wouldn't be here.

>>52847940
>then only a very few areas would matter.
Not true. Even if you include the entire population of California, New York, and New England, that's still not enough to get a majority. The idea that a few urban areas would decide everything ignores the fact that even if you add up the populations of the ten biggest cities, you're still no where close to getting a majority. A national popular vote would require broader appeal than just going for 5 or 6 populated areas.

>>52847934
>Having more parties and candidates that have a wider range of platforms to choose from

There's already a wide range of platforms.

Libertarians. Republicans. Democunts. Green Party. Communist Party.

ALL are able to run for office. And they usually do. They don't win, because NO ONE FUCKING VOTES FOR THEM.

So sure, add 10000 more parties. The results will be the same. At the end of the day, it will be between democunts and republicans.

>>52847887
not an argument

>>52847944
It's also capable of doing things like passing a budget, while the US fails at that regularly.

>>52847983
>It's also capable of doing things like passing a budget,

A budget to give working peoples money to muslims showing up by the trainload....

I wouldn't brag.

>>52847934
>strength
Nigger, please. Your system is the reason for the European genocide, never mind the other, more mundane problems they're having with funding, defense, and social services. We know what it does to a nation, and frankly we don't give a fuck.
>>52847963
>lol strawman I can't refute shit
Just don't reply, then.
>>52847983
>country completely controlled by (((US))) interests whose existence is predicated on the US federal reserve feeding it cash can "balance" its budget
What a surprise.

>>52847981
Truuuuue.....I'm not arguing with you. I'm encouraging you to be more articulate and to not speak in (what is can only hope is a sad attempt at) hyperbole, because it causes people to not respect your point. When you say dumb shit like "everyone" who "sets foot in" Mexico "immediately notice[s]", you sound fucking retarded. So use your words and try again, faggot.

>>52847968
> They don't win, because NO ONE FUCKING VOTES FOR THEM.

The people don't vote for them because first past the post guarantees that it would just result in an outcome that they hate. Look at the 1992 presidential election. Ross Perot split the vote with George HW Bush and thus ensured that Bill Clinton was elected. The same thing happens at every level of the US government. Third party candidates just create a spoiler effect that causes the main party candidate who didn't divide his vote to win.

If you had proportional representation, people would be more willing to vote for the other parties because that would actually lead to their preferred party getting more representation, rather than just being wasted like it is now.

>>52847996
> A budget to give working peoples money to muslims showing up by the trainload.
No it doesn't.

>>52848007
And the US system results in a complete clusterfuck of a government that regularly shuts down because it can't even pass a budget and is totally unable to follow through on its biggest talking point. They're apparently going to give repealing Obamacare another shot, even though they failed last month and nothing has changed.

> Your system is the reason for the European genocide
Repeating something you heard on the internet doesn't magically make it true.

>>52841802
Brian Shaw, in terms of times actually winning the Arnold and WSM, it's stronger. But I like Thor better for retarded reasons, like his accent and better looks.

>>52843035
When you are so smart you are on a level above others and make sure they damn well know it

>>52848104
Congratulations, you've discovered the purpose of government. Not to pass law, but to be prevented from passing law. You also have no fucking idea what a rider bill is, it seems, nor how oligarchy is inherently corruption.

>>52846744
Well, what is the lift that determines strength?

>>52848104
> implying European genocide isn't happening

>>52848127
> Vote for Trump because he promises to repeal Obamacare
> When elected he fails to do that even though the republicans have complete control of the entire federal government
> "The point of government isn't to pass laws, it's to be prevented from passing laws, so it's totally okay that he failed at basic governance."

First republicans say to judge people by the laws they repeal. Then, when they fail to even repeal a law, you says this. It's like you people just love corruption and incompetence.

>>52848230
This

>>52845180
Trump is the real life equivalent of someone rolling
>nat 20 xD
and the GM then letting them do something
>epik lels xD

>>52847666
Only revenue bills need to start in the house. The Constitution, Article 1, Section 7 requires that revenue bills start in the house. That's it.

Where are you getting the idea that all bills, even non-revenue bills, must start in the house? Cite the section of the Constitution that says that.

>>52845225
Marathon runners sure have low endurance and stamina.

>>52845969
>Therefore corporations are not people.
Then explain why corporations have constitutional rights? Constitutional rights are reserved for US citizens. So how can a corporation have these rights, if it is not seen by the law as a citizen, and therefore a person.

>>52848528
> Then explain why corporations have constitutional rights?
Because the US Supreme Court wanted them to.

>>52841892>>52842234>>52847629
Bowie had Bowie CHA.

>>52848528
>Then explain why corporations have constitutional rights?

Because people are retardedly shortsighted and will do what makes them more money now even if it's going to fuck everyone later

>>52848567
>even if it's going to fuck everyone later
Funny thing, it is fucking us right now. No need to wait for later.

>>52845560
>Why should they get to decide
Because they are STATES. Your country is not America, it's UNITED STATES of America. Each state votes independently.

By the way, you guys elect presidents who doesn't have a popular majority all the time, and somehow NOW it's a problem?

>>52848902
> By the way, you guys elect presidents who doesn't have a popular majority all the time, and somehow NOW it's a problem?

Not exactly. For example, Obama got a popular majority both times. Bush didn't, and that was a point of contention. The 2000 election was a very bitter affair, so it's not like no one thought it was a problem before.

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>>52842995
Nah, Marcus Aurelius is where the 20 INT really is. Socrates basically just went around to people and said "oh yeah, but how do you KNOW that," and told everyone how wise he was because he didn't think he was wise. Socrates definitely had a high INT for his contributions to the more logical side of philosophy, but he was kind of a douchebag that was killed for a reason.

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>>52848963
I didn't say 'every time'.

>>52848902
It's THE United States of America. One nation. It's citizens are citizens of the United States, to the individual states they are legally considered merely residents.

The people who tried to claim that it was "these" United States, nothing but a group of states, were traitors who rebelled against the United States and were defeated.

>>52848997
Sure, not every time. But when it does happen, like with Bush, it is something that people do bring up. So your claim that it's only now considered a problem is flat out wrong.

>>52848967
Fuck, meant 20 WIS

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20 con
20 wis

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20 Scoops

>>52848967
Socrates was killed for “failing to acknowledge the gods that the city acknowledges” and “introducing new deities.” Not because he was rude.

>>52849092
EIGHT
HOUR
ARM
WORKOUT

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>>52842312
Here have a better statblock.

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>>52849115
And for "corrupting the youth," but all of those were really excuses for killing him because he pissed off a bunch of important people. A decent part of which was that his ideas were genuinely subversive, but a lot of it was also that he collaborated with the Spartan occupation government after the Peloponnesian War, and generally did his hardest to annoy everyone around him in the name of "questioning their wisdom." There were other reasons than being obnoxious, but I don't think Athens would have been so ready to be at his throat if he wasn't a willful nuisance.

>>52849178
I like the 6 pack

>>52849178
>but a lot of it was also that he collaborated with the Spartan occupation government after the Peloponnesian War
He doesn't seem to speak too highly in his Apologia of the Thirty Tyrants. Where does this idea come from?

>>52842235
Looking closer to what an average woman does than the DD blondes that dominated porn for so long.

>>52849232
He was most likely being pragmatic while privately disliking their rule, but he have ties to their government, and it looked pretty bad to the rest of Athens when they returned to self-rule, regardless of how prudent it may have been.

>>52844724
Okay...how about a credible source then?

>>52849269
>and it looked pretty bad to the rest of Athens when they returned to self-rule
And this information comes from...?

I'm going to assume it was interpretation and assumption, but it seems rational to suggest that the Athenians would hate the appearance of positive relations with a military power stronger than them that is also relatively close.

>>52849329
It seems speculative. Especially since I'm struggling to come up with anything tangible in my search for ways he helped the Spartans. He fought against them in the war, but they lost, and then he was still a citizen. On the one example I know of that they asked him to do something, he went "Nah, I'll just go home" whereas the others actually followed the orders.

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>>52841892
In addition to rolling an 18 on Charisma at character creation, having the +10 CHA bonus from acquiring the Rock Star prestige class at Bard lvl 10, and having the Charisma racial modifier of possibly being Nyarlathotep, he also had that +1 CHA per inch big dong bonus.

>>52845180
Let's see...
>moderate Republican
>master of playing the media like a fiddle
>knew how to win the game by getting more than just his party's core voters
>fairly consistent on major talking points for a few decades
>promises to put his country first
Hillary won big in 2 states(the source of her claim to winning the popular vote) but lost almost everywhere else.

>>52845180
Really, it's not that we voted Trump because we wanted him in the office.

We voted Trump because we wanted to keep Hillary out of it.

>>52849286
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Socrates

Another possible source of resentment were the political views that he and his associates were thought to have embraced. Critias, who appears in two of Plato's Socratic dialogues, was a leader of the Thirty Tyrants (the ruthless oligarchic regime that ruled Athens for eight months in 404–403 BC), but there is also a record of their falling out.

As with many of the issues surrounding Socrates’ conviction, the nature of his affiliation with the Thirty Tyrants is far from straightforward. During the reign of the Thirty, many prominent Athenians who were opposed to the new government left Athens. Robin Waterfield asserts that “Socrates would have been welcome in oligarchic Thebes, where he had close associates among the Pythagoreans who flourished there, and which had already taken in other exiles.” Given the availability of a hospitable host outside of Athens, Socrates, at least in a limited way, chose to remain in Athens. Thus, Waterfield suggests, Socrates’ contemporaries probably thought his remaining in Athens, even without participating in the Thirty’s bloodthirsty schemes, demonstrated his sympathy for the Thirty’s cause, not neutrality towards it. This is proved, Waterfield argues, by the fact that after the Thirty were no longer in power, anyone who had remained in Athens during their rule was encouraged to move to Eleusis, the new home of the expatriate Thirty. Socrates did oppose the will of the Thirty on a few specific occasions. Plato’s Apology has the character of Socrates describe one such instance. He says that the Thirty ordered him, along with four other men, to fetch a man named Leon from Salamis so that the Thirty could execute him. Socrates simply did not answer this order, while the other four men did go to Salamis to get Leon.

Find the specific citations on the Wikipedia article. Socrates may not have helped the Tyrants, but Athens thought he did, and that's what matters

>>52849412
>but Athens thought he did

>Thus, Waterfield suggests, Socrates’ contemporaries probably thought his remaining in Athens, even without participating in the Thirty’s bloodthirsty schemes, demonstrated his sympathy for the Thirty’s cause, not neutrality towards it.

Ok, so here we get to the meat of it. It's one scholar's interpretation of what people might have thought without expressing it, based on pieced-together history from various sources. That's pretty weak. Now if there were some sources from that time discussing Socrates that labels him a collaborator, that would be something. Because there are a good amount of books, and plays from that time still known and read, and some of them deal with Socrates, and none that I can think of labels him a collaborator, or suggests this was a motive for his execution.

>>52848035
Assuming you're the German anon, you're arguing in bad faith as half the seats in the Bundestag are elected first past the post and the rest allocated by party line vote. Germany also only has four national level parties, the Union, the SPD, the Left, and the Greens, and the Left and the Greens are minority parties. The Bundesrat is nothing more than the representative of state government and as such only represents their will, not that of the voters.

>>52842312
Trump has 20 ranks in bluff that he purchased with a small loan of a million dollars, and 6 Cha

>>52849791
Not German, and I am aware that, as a mixed member proportional system, half of legislature is elected by first past the post voting. That is the "mixed" part. It gives you a regional representative that way. At the same time, however, it also allocates the other half of the seats based upon the percentage of the vote that each party got, such that the end result matches as closely as possible the percentage of the vote that each party received. Thus it also gives you one of the benefits of a proportional system in that the end result is a legislative body that much more closely represents what the people actually voted for than if you only had first past the post voting in geographic districts like the US Congress. In the US, you can easily get things like one party winning a majority of the vote, while the other party ends up with more than 2/3rds of the seats, as in >>52847453
In both MMP and proportional representation, that is not going to happen.

Also only four national parties is already twice as many as the US has. Then there are places like the Netherlands, who use a more standard proportional representation system and thus have 13 different parties with seats in their house of representatives. Having only first past the post, by contrast, produces a system with only two parties.

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20 Cha

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>>52845355
>>52845887
>>52847625
>direct democracy is horrible
>instead let's have a minority in the rust belt decide who is president

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Undisputed.

>>52850281
> implying letting the core of America's working class decide who is president is a bad thing
It you shitlibs weren't too busy calling them racist to notice that they were hurting, you might have won. But no, got right ahead and continue to look down on middle America. Your arrogance guarantees that the left will stay dead for the next decade.

>>52841829
okay fatlord

>>52843035
20 Autism

>>52850333
>middle America

A small part of it about to stick it to those libruls by rushing themselves into the lower class in a hurry. That there might be a bit more middle class floating around elsewhere isn't a concept they are willing to grasp, just as they refuse to see any connection between supporting the candidate building his campaign on a foundation of racism would be related to them getting called racists.

So they keep voting for the party guaranteed to keep piling on the pain, because fucking themselves over completely is so worth it if there's a chance of causing on of those coastal faggots some mild embarrassment or inconvenience. Stigginit!

And I keep saying them instead of you, because you're not one of them. They're too old for 4chan. You pretend because wallowing in shit makes gets you off. I guess it allows you to also pretend the stink you smell isn't coming from the inside.

>>52846950
>Half the country didn't even vote.

And that means they're stuck with whoever voted. Look, if you with a bunch of friends and you're trying to decide where to go eat, and you're fine with whatever, does that mean the group can't make a decision because you didn't say where you want to eat? No. You said you weren't gonna vote for any place, because you don't care, because they're all equally good or bad for you.

>>52847177
So, instead of it being votes distributed between 2 candidates and the one that gets more wins, you want it to be a split across multiple people, so that the winner could get like 10% of the votes cast? So 90% of the voters didn't even vote for them, but they won because enough people voted for them?

> it's a "cha means physical attractiveness" episode

>>52850281
So you'd instead want New York and California decide who's president and fuck the 48 other states?

>>52850547
>the candidate building his campaign on a foundation of racism

Keep on it, I'm sure one day it'll stick.

Yeah, there's no /pol/ boogeyman, just /pol/ shit all over /tg/.

>>52850547
> the candidate building his campaign on a foundation of racism
I'll take things that never happened for 200. And good job proving my point. You smug idiots are too busy screaming RACIST every chance you get to notice that your time is done. The pendulum has swung.

> because fucking themselves over completely is so worth it if there's a chance of causing on of those coastal faggots some mild embarrassment or inconvenience. Stigginit!
The people of states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin suffered for decades under non-stop democrat rule. What did it get them? Absolutely nothing, just more pain. Why shouldn't they be willing to try literally anything else? The democrats never did anything to help the working class, so why should the working class help the democrats?

>>52850623
Even with national popular vote, New York and California do not have enough people to get a majority. California has about 40 million people. New York has about 20 million. There are more than 320 million people in the US. CA and NY together are less than a fifth of the population. The idea that they would be able to control things themselves is simply wrong, and even a cursory glance at the facts will show that.

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20 CHA

At least before the inevitable WWE nerf

>>52850333
I'm not a liberal ma dude but your strawman has kissable lips and I'd like you to bring him to my quarters.

>>52847944
>Carbon taxes
>bad
A nationalist should love his country enough not to shit it with pollution

>>52850716
>carbon dioxide
>pollution

Neck yourself, polluter.

>>52850730
Coal mining and coal burning pollute the ground with heavy metals to the point that the ground around coal power plants is often more radioactive and toxic than around nuclear power plants. Also create airborne microparticles causing cancer.

Oil extraction is also polluting and oil processing also create airborne microparticles. Not to mention when it starts to spill.

Not to mention that it also creates carbon monoxyde, which IS pollution.

>>52850686
It's not about having outright majority vote. Those two vote very much left while the majority right wing votes are found in less populated states and everyone in between votes both sides, distributing their votes.

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20 COM

>>52850763
So why aren't we concentrating on making less polluting extraction methods and cleaner burning coal plants with filtering, rather than just punishing pure CO2 emissions? We have much more advanced coal plants, but we can't use them because "CO2 is bad, m'kay."

>>52850772
Okay. So two states that combined have about 19% of the vote go left. So what? Texas is more than 8.6% of the vote all on its own, second only to California, and it goes to the right. Neither side has enough people in the big states to dominate. A national popular vote would require a national campaign, since neither side will be able to rely solely on large population centers.

>>52850814
"Clean coal" and carbon capture has been bandied about for years. The coal industry has constantly talked it up, but in practice they generally choose to just invest the money in lobbying instead. The coal industry knows that such things would make running a coal power plant much more expensive, enough that it would likely make them uncompetitive against natural gas. Or rather, even more uncompetitive, since natural gas is already clobbering them.

>>52850772
> and everyone in between votes both sides
Fewer people do this in the US these days. Party line voting has become much more common everywhere, and on both sides.

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>>52850853
Yes, but even Texas isn't full on republican, it has areas with strong democratic voting base.

If you look at, say, 2016 election map in more detail, like on county level, all that blue is more voters than all the red. Those blue areas get to decide for all the red areas who will be the president.

>>52850814
Coal and oil are non-renewable, and their reserves aren't infinite and there's only a couple decades before they run out, so economically there isn't much of a push for cleaner processes. Ironically the ones developing non-polluting coal plants are the french, where there isn't much coal plants to begin with but where the laws against pollution are harsh. On the other hand, the US wants to loosen the laws and cuts r&d funding.

On a moral standpoint, the more you use the less your kids will have. Using everything, leaving your kids in enormous debt, shitting up everything and salting the ground behind you is a very "baby boomer" mentality.

Targeting CO2 is good because most of the things producing CO2 also produce much more harmful byproducts, like microparticles (we still don't know how to reliably filter them), heavy metals poisoning, pollution at extraction point, carbon monoxyde, noise (especially in urban areas). Clean coal techniques would make it more expensive than wood, wind, solar or nuclear power.

In my opinion it is the moral duty of a patriot to stand up against those who want to pollute for their little personal gain because it is a crime against the country.

>>52850893
Well, seeing that Obama just flat out said he'll kill any and all coal power, clean or not, what can they do?

>>52850920
> Yes, but even Texas isn't full on republican, it has areas with strong democratic voting base.
The same can be said of both California and New York. Sure, places like NYC are democratic strongholds, but places like upstate New York go for republicans.

On top of that, just using the map of the 2016 election won't give you a full picture of what a national popular vote would look like. For both democrats and republicans, there are a bunch of people who don't bother to vote because their vote doesn't matter. They could be a republican in California, or a democrat in Mississippi. In both cases, their state is safely in the column of the other party, meaning that their vote for president will be meaningless since all the electoral votes go to the winner, regardless of the margin.

A national popular vote would remove that issue, allowing people in states that are safely in one camp to matter. That could get them to the polls, which would change the map in ways that are difficult to predict.

>>52850934
>only a couple decades before they run out

Yeah, I've been hearing about that for a half a century.

US did work on clean coal as well, until it was shut down because any and all coal is bad.

>Targeting CO2 is good

Again, neck yourself, polluter. Every second you live you're producing more CO2 into the air.

>>52850638
>I'm sure one day it'll stick.
It already has stuck. From the Muslim ban comments to the Wall and calling all Mexicans murders and what not, to that sorry ass episode where he pretended he didn't know who or what David Duke was, and for putting that racist ass cracker Sessions in charge of the Justice department, for us non-whites (yeah save your shit, we know you don't care) Trump is pretty much universally seen as a racist.

>>52850653
>I'll take things that never happened for 200.
Just because you weren't paying attention to what he was saying, doesn't mean we weren't.

>The pendulum has swung.
Funny thing about pendulums they never stay swung one way for long. A lesson that is just as lost on the left as it is on the right.

>>52850960
> Obama just flat out said he'll kill any and all coal power, clean or not
No he didn't.

>>52851002
>there are a bunch of people who don't bother to vote because their vote doesn't matter.

You think a direct vote will change that? Where I live we have direct voting and the voter turnout sure as shit ain't high.

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>>52851004
You didn't read any of the arguments and you didn't provide any answer to this.

Enjoy dying of lung cancer, coalburner.

>>52851025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RevRZaZQpk

>>52851044
Enjoy being taxed for breathing.