/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes Genera

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First for Magnus did nothing wrong!

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Have you built/painted anything recently?
Got these Kriel Warriors and Fell Caller asembled and ready to be primed.
I don't know why I assembled the Caber Tossers, these things suck. Maybe they'll get buffed one day to not be complete ass.

>>52828552
I built the Wolves of Oroboros Plastic kit. It was fine really, no problems. I want to put together the reeves but I've heard super bad things about them. They don't seem so bad tho.

>>52828645
>but I've heard super bad things about them

Gameplay or modelling-wise?

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>>52828552
Put together Kaya3. Terrible fucking model to assemble. Half plastic half metal. Arm sockets are barely able to hold together. Feels fragile as fuck.

>>52829415
I'm still figuring out how her thighs are supposed to fit in the knee recesses. All the extraneous plastic on Laris wasn't fun either (who thought the umbilical peg was a good idea?).

Is infantry making a comeback /wmg/?

>>52831021
No.

>>52831021

CID-wise, kinda, yeah.

>>52831021
Iron Fangs are currently rolling tourneys, and things like Steelheads, zombie pirates and Steelheads can probably do that too.

Nobody techs against infantry spam now. My friend is wasting all of our local steamrollers lists with his 2x3 Thexus Drudge-spam.

>>5282855
I just built my two replacement man o war shocktroopers, and my first Kodiak. I named him kojack and need to paint them. Posting from phone so no crappy unpainted pics.

>>52829392
Modelling wise, game play wise they've been hitting it out of the park apparently

>>52828398
What is the currency in the iron kingsoms?

I assume goldcoins for most humans (khador,Cygnar,ord,etc.), dwarves and elves?

Cryx? brains and bones?
Cephalyx? limbs?
Trollkin? colorfull stones?
Circle? ??
Everblight? ??
Skorne? ??

Going to a 3 list Steamroller tomorrow, we can use one list all day if we want to so lists are never forced out. Wish me luck /tg/!

>(Xerxis 1) Tyrant Xerxis [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Tiberion [22]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [18]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]

>(Hexeris 1) Lord Tyrant Hexeris [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

>(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Feralgeist [2]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]

Could someone link the Steamroller CID again please? I forgot to save it.

>>52832598
>Cryx? brains and bones?

Cryx doesn't have a currency. They trade using slaves and plunder, basically operating a barter system. Their human and satyxis communities might use money pillaged from the mainland, but I wouldn't expect a single, coherent value or exchange rate.

>>52832598
IIRC Skorne are almost the same as >>52833396

The most bountiful resource in the empire is slaves, so payment is delivered via hours of labour by slaves. There's no 'micro-currency' like dollars or pounds that individual Skorne own and spend, there's the house resources, and the members of a house are essentially dependents to a degree inversely proportional to how high up the food chain they are.

Praetorian Swordsmen for example get what they're given by their superiors, not in currency, but in room, board, equipment, social standing, etc.

>>52833575

Sounds like communism to me.

>>52832598
The protectorate preaches that currency goes against menoth's law and forces it's citizens to abide by a trade system utilizing pearls made out of mud, which are worn on like a necklace.

At least, that's what I remember.

>>52834464
>I will eliminate currency by introducing a new currency!

Why are Menites so retarded?

Where can I find the most up to date rules for Mercenaries?

>>52834176
Perfect communism, actually, as it has unmoored itself from a central authority.

On the other hand, you could interpret it as the logical end of capitalism, too, with corporations (houses) existing as a law unto themselves and having vast masses of dependent 'employees' under their jurisdiction. They barter and trade with one another, after all.

>>52835390
War Room.

>>52833396
The exchange rate is two bones to one brain, obviously. Get with it.

>>52834176

Capitalism with weird fiat fiscal units, I think. But it's not actually as unmoored as all that, the day's labor it is tethered to is "a day of labor towards making a functioning sacral stone".

It's like a penny-loaf, but it instead of "unit of value that will keep you from starving on a day-to-day-basis", it's "unit of value towards staying out of hell".

Surprisingly grounded, actually.

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So I've got an old school mk1 Cryx player who comes to my local store, and he loves his infantry (mechanithralls & bane warriors) with Terminus
With my limited collection, which one of these would be better?

Trollbloods Army - 24 / 25 points
[Theme] Band of Heroes

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]
- Fennblade Officer and Drummer [5]


Trollbloods Army - 24 / 25 points
[Theme] Band of Heroes

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
Fell Caller Hero [5]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]


Trollbloods Army - 23 / 25 points
[Theme] Band of Heroes

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
Troll Whelps [4]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]


I'm mostly running Band of Heroes just so I can get rid of tough, and it's not like it costs me anything.

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>27 posts in 15 hours

Rolled 2 (1d6)

>>52837110
Quick! Make a tough roll!

>>52837110
Sorry what was that? I was busy playing Guild Ball.

>>52832623
I like the lists, but what do you use as your arcnode in the hexy1 list? Seems like your beasts all want to be in melee or pretty far away

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>>52835348
Groupthink, not even once

Has anyone translated the runes on that preview page from no quarter?

Anyone has a size comparison pic for the cygnar plastic jacks?
I only have the old MK2 starter and the Ironclad is a runt compared to my Protectorate jacks, despite him being taller in the background.
Are the others equally runty?

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I wanna get into Legion/Abby2. Is this a decent list?

https://conflictchamber.com/#ba1b_-0tewaQaQbvbwbgbgbubbbbbbb9b9

Legion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation

(Absylonia 2) Absylonia, Daughter of Everblight [+28]
- Carnivean [19]
- Carnivean [19]
- Naga Nightlurker [8]
- Proteus [19]
- Scythean [18]
- Scythean [18]
- Succubus [0(4)]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [0(1)]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
The Forsaken [0(4)]
The Forsaken [0(4)]

>>52837833
I originally had a Reptile Hound in, but at another Anon's suggestion it was removed. The idea is that if the Sentry is tied up, I'm in a good spot anyway.

>>52835896
I'd go with the first one, personally.

>>52838690
No typhon? You wot M8?

>>52842019
Theme doesn't let you take characters you're not special issued.

>>52842146
Ah didnt mention its themed. My bad.

>>52842310
>[Theme] Oracles of Annihilation

>>52842392
Was busy fucking my eyeballs with those huge spiked dildos, pal.

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>>52828552
A little update, got the Fell Caller painted
why don't the older models have shoulder nubs REEEEEEEEEE

>>52835498
Good deal.
I've got a vast collection of just hands and feet, with the occasional wrist, forearm, and ankle thrown in.
Nice. Just two fingers nets me two brains.
Brains ain't worth shit.
Here have a rib cage and hand over all your brains, peasant.
>brains are the Zimbabwean currency here mate!
I can dig up old bones, brains must be fresh.

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>>52844549
> Someone else who is angry over the lack of proper troll anatomy.

I KNOW, RIGHT? THEY EVEN SCREWED UP THE NEW WEAPONS CREWS! MALE TROLLS ALL HAVE CHIN AND SHOULDER STUBBLE

WHY IS THE TROLL LINE SO INCONSISTENT AND SCREWY

WHY ARE ALL THESE PROBLEMS STILL HAPPENING ON NEW MODELS?!

>>52828307
Man, these command books are really underwhelming. What the hell PP.

>>52837110
ikr.. me and my game group were really heavily into WarmaHordes in MK2, but when MK3 camea round everyone just.. stopped. And up to this day I have no idea why. Just don't feel like playing the game anymore.

>>52846160
Weird. It isn't even like you couldn't just grumpily keep oldfagging with the existing rules, the way some people have with every edition change ever.

>>52837110

Sorry, I was too busy planning at my next 3 games with friends using proxy markers.

That way we don't have to paint armies, take the time to socialize or actually play the game.

We just plot out the entire game using proxy bases with words written on them, then decide what the probability of all those steps happening are.

Right now, I'm at a 75.62% win percentage based on bell curve distribution among my friends.

>>52845835

Well, when it comes to Trolls, as one question, then pick your own adventure?

Did Brian Dugas sculpt it?

If yes, turn to Page 4 and continue!

If no, throw the model in the fucking trash!

>>52845835
I mean that one on the right might be a female
...a very fat jawed female

>>52846845
So you're saying she's EXTRA THICC

>>52838436
Plastic warjacks are generally somewhat taller. The Cygnar heavies only slightly but the Cygnar lights significantly.

>>52837833
>>52838725
Why not use the Bronzeback as the arcnode? Everything's gonna try to kill it anyway, and anything that gets in mêlée with it can get Beaten Back/scrapped pretty easily, unless it's a gargossal, in which case now your Bronzeback is is mêlée with their gargossal, juice the fucker up and one-round it.

I am the only one that is in some way disturbed by the game lack of stability ?

I mean pratically in a year of MKIII we had :

>MKIII release
>Hey guys in 6 month you will have the balance Errata
>Balance Errata out
>Hey guys now we will start with Theme Force
>Theme Force start to come out
>Hey guys look CID
>Hey guys look new SR2017 change a lot!

It's like the game is ever changing while before we knew that all we had to expect was a 2 book in a year and a revision of SR.

I am not telling that this change are bad, but the lack of a long period of stability made me drop interest in the game. Especially with the Official Forum gone. FB groups aren't good for a discussion like a forum.

>>52851738
Why don't you talk about it with people in your local meta? We play some games, then go get Mexican food and bullshit about changes, nerfs, combos, etc. Then we play more games.

Dead thread, dead game

>>52852593

Fuck man, it's sunday morning. If the dog didn't hide a toy beneath the computer desk I wouldn't even have checked the general.

>>52852593
I have to paint 9 models til Tuesday, so fuck off. No time to shitpost in mememachine general.

>>52851738
I'm okay with busted garbage being re worked in two months, but yes, the lack of stability has been jarring.

PP has always had an issue with development versus release and timeline management, though. Fuck, this game is balanced around shit that won't be out for another two years.

Take the revelator for example. It's rules came out, but other than proxies it couldn't be played. Then, stuff for a period of solid years was designed to "not be too good with the revelator," even though the thing never saw mk2.

Some of the design decisions are starting to make sense with the theme forces. Like the Iron fang kovniks being little 4 pt bros with weapon master and using a lot of their utility. They're super cool in theme, but until now they never saw a list in mk3 (or at least not many).

I think a lot of folks would have just preferred things stood well on their own without this themed garbage and the poor design choices.

Playing against someone in theme when you don't have one yet is pretty miserable. 12 points down is not a fun position to be in and it's an uphill competitive struggle. A lot of factions until recently only has one while some had three. Some of the ones with one didn't even have the model releases to really turn it on, like the venator dakar.

I like the direction they're going with rules coming out with physical releases instead of anthology books that promise things you won't get for three years, but they still haven't reached an end state and it's been a little weird the past year.

>>52851738

It all seems headed in the same direction, which is kind of stable.

SR2017 does introduce a gear-check, though. Solution: if warnoun list, bring many solos. If infantry list, bring many light warnouns.

>>52851738

It's pretty fucked up to be honest.

I'm not sure what they're thinking or if they just don't have a finger on the pulse of the game. I'm sure they go to cons, where it's just a big echo chamber and circle jerk.

But really, at the LGS level, that's where the game is hurting. And I'm saying that as someone that travels a hell of a lot in work and plays at different metas.

It's a meme I know but when I go to shops now while traveling I see a hell of a lot more Infinity and Malifaux than I used to. And a lot less Warmachine.

They really fucked up with pushing Mk 3 out of the door. Then again, they've never really been a good business. Just has really good IP.

Why they continue to let their business managers working, I'm not sure. I can list their failures easily without really even taking time to think about it.

Every foray with their IP into an electronic format. Failure on launch.

Mk 3 without DC. Failure on launch.

Changing their molding process (CoC). Failure on launch.

Their business decision on how to handle online sales. Failure on launch.

Every time they open their mouths, getting rules wrong, making fools out of themselves.


Love their IP. Matt is good at making cool worlds, Doug is a mediocre writer but good at filling in background. Most of their fluff is cringe worthy though.

Really, Matt needs to get someone with an actual education and background in business in there and get rid of W. S.

>>52852917
>the lack of stability has been jarring.

People complain if the game is stagnant, too.

But yeah, I've been waiting on the Revelator for... three years now? And I can't really say the game hasn't been stable. If you pay attention to the competitive side of things, shit that is so overpowered to be bad for the game gets whacked at some point. If anything, Storm Lances have been left to dominate for too damn long (although I wonder if they're going to get it this Wednesday).

Hopefully the other devs can stop Soles from shooting them all in the foot on the SR2017 shit.

>>52854294
>this Wednesday
?
What's going on this Wednesday?

>>52851738
There's frankly a lot to change, so PP introducing many changes into the game is a good thing. I am pretty sure though that 2018 will be more stable than the slow-motion birth of Mk3 that was 2017.

>>52854461
Battle Engine, Bane (and supposedly other models) CID. And Week2 of SR2017 CID.

>>52854803
>Bane (and supposedly other models)
Oh right that's when the Bane Theme is coming out
Oh god what if Bane Warriors get stealth again

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>>52854294
>Hopefully the other devs can stop Soles from shooting them all in the foot on the SR2017 shit.
Are you kidding? Soles is doing the smart thing about Proxymachine. It's fucking retarded, and it's asinine levels of autism that people have extrapolated "you can premeasure" to mean "I can preplan every facet of my turn before I execute it."

People who have actually played the game since MK1 understand that allowing premeasuring was meant to allow you to make sure you weren't trying to charge 1/8" beyond your threat range. This is supported by the fact that none of this stupid bullshit takes place in any other tabletop miniature game that allows premeasuring.

>>52856203
I don't think he's debating the validity of Soles' arguments.

He's more talking about how his entrance into the thread was with the sentence

"If it were up to me, then no proxy bases were allowed"

The man has consistently proven he has no ability to talk to people. Especially since while they do make the rules, they have little in the way of enforcing them, so they need to actually convince us to follow it.

>>52856255
>dev tells you what he honestly thinks
>instead of performing literary fellatio to make you feel better
I like their blunt honesty. I'd rather he say what he did than "well our feelings were that we wanted players to be blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah".

>>52856321
Hungerford and Pagani were both honest in that thread without sounding like shitheads.

>>52856381
Soles didn't sound like a shithead, for one, because the quote you've given doesn't exist, and two, because you're probably projecting your feelings onto him. Nothing he wrote was any different from the others, and in fact, the lengthy response he gave to Olannon's long post about "muh precision gameplay" wasn't inflammatory whatsoever.

What exactly did he say that bothered you?

>>52856470
>I am personally in favor of getting rid of markers entirely...Allowing for a single marker is already a huge concession to intent for me and still remains outside the structure of the core rules.

>>52856321
No, that's bad fucking PR. When you write/speak for the company you say what needs to be said and if you want to promote something you speak in positive terms that people care about.

Do you not remember the awful JS insiders for each mkiii faction that completely killed any hype?

People have put up with a lot of PP's shit over the years because at least seemed to have an idea they were going for. Mkiii PR has completely shattered that illusion and that's why no one is putting up with it.

No one bitched about the rule set until they botched their response with knockdown/stationary gang. No one started getting banned until "Skornegy doesn't exist" comment stirred the community.

If you want honesty, it needs to be at forefront or not shown at all. Sole's biggest blunder in mkiii was admitting that they didn't know what they were doing for Skorne in the reddit AMA.

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>>52856584
Oh my, how blunt and rude was his... second comment... clarifying his first one. Go pull up an old version of page 5 and grow a pair.

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>>52856639
It's a fucking ***discussion*** board on proposed changes for the game, and you want the devs to vet every candid comment they make

Yeah, you know what, they should just not reply to people whatsoever. Throw the change out there, and never reply. That would work so much better.

Jesus christ, go play pic related if conversations with the developers trigger you.

Jesus christ, go back to Munchkin

>>52856584

Soles has some pretty weak moments for sure.

However, that isn't one of them. Truth is, the autistic shit lords that keep whining on the internet about mandoll games where they can't use proxy markers to plan out their entire fucking turn...is pretty dumb.

I've seen people post on Facebook about how this just ruins the game and you can't play good Warmachine without them..they'll quit, etc.

I wonder how us Mk 1 players got by all these years without premeasuring every fucking movement, then playing the turn out without moving models around. How. Fucking. Boring.

Premeasuring was one of the worst things they did. Yep, it prevented failed charges but big fucking deal. Look what it's ushered in. Proxy machine.

I have no problem with premeasuring if the autists wouldn't throw 20 million proxys on the board. I literally watched a game where someone walked up, said what the hell is going on here when two competitive players had all these proxy bases everywhere. Then joked, why don't you just play with bases with names at that point and laughed.

Ugly as sin. Then again, most in this game didn't give a shit how the game looked anyways.

>>52856744
Well, you're not going to get sympathy for me there, I grew up playing Btech, where you did play with empty bases/pieces/coins with names written on them.

But no, I'm not denying Soles has a point in his arguments, because he does. Premeasuring has removed a shitload of guesswork out of the game, and it turns out that guesswork was important to keeping certain strategies and tactics from becoming too powerful. It's removing a lot of random element from the game due to the loss of mistakes.

Now, myself, I don't think this is the spot to change the game. Random elements are super important, and with the amount of dice fixing and control players can exert over things like attack and damage rolls, the game becomes far too clinical and clear.

I also understand why they're trying to make the change here, because this is an easy change to make. No revisions to the core rules, no major changes to the game, just a simple rule to try and stop what an unintended result premeasuring gave.

>>52856733
Honestly, Soles should never reply to anything.

The man is just an expert at saying innocuous things in the worst way. Like, why the fuck would you write "we reserve the right to shape our IP as we see fit" as a statement? Everyone knows the right of final say belongs to PP. it's just silly unnecessary aggression in a post as a dev.

>>52856871
But there's a lot of problems they've got making this change. First and foremost, PP has a very real issue in the fact that they have almost zero control about their competitive environment, especially now without the PG program. They can make this rule all they want, but they're totally dependent on the playerbase to enforce it at all but a very few venues, and more than a few players have already said they don't intend to do so. Some of that is bluster, of course, but if people keep saying it, then enough people might start doing it, and that fractures the competitive scene, which is something you absolutely do not want to happen.

So there's a secondary thing here in the fact that they need to convince a majority of the community that this is a good change, and something they should abide by.

Of course, the introduction of random elements is always something that competitive communities rail against, so it's not going to be easy(look at random turns, a change that would have been good for the game but people hated because muh open info).

And this is where Soles comes in. He might have a point, but he's doing a pretty piss poor job of conveying why he has a point.

Sure, I used the worst of his statements, but that doesn't change the fact that much of his discussion has this underlying idea that he knows best and everyone else is stupid, which is absolutely not what he needs to be doing.

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>>52856902
Honestly, you're just projecting your own personal bias and butthurt onto Soles. I don't know what he did to mentally rape your eyesockets however many months ago. But I bet if I replaced a Soles post with, say, Hungerford or Pagani's name, you'd find absolutely nothing wrong with it.

>>52856902
I see it as him admitting that they can't enforce this sort of thing globally. There's no PP police who will smash your models for planning out your turns at the lgs. But, they don't want to see it, so they're placing a restriction on an event they can enforce, which also informs people how they'd prefer the game to be.

>>52856968
>They can make this rule all they want, but they're totally dependent on the playerbase to enforce it at all but a very few venues, and more than a few players have already said they don't intend to do so.
PP can't enforce local tournaments whatsoever, this is correct. However, the majority of people who make the rounds playing local tournaments are doing so in preparation of major PP-sponsored events. Which WILL use the changed proxy rules. Now, as a tournament player myself, I make use of a certain amount of proxy bases to assist with tricky moves (through free strike zones, around terrain, etc) but I would follow the rule explicity to not set myself up for failure at, say, Lock n' Load.

>So there's a secondary thing here in the fact that they need to convince a majority of the community that this is a good change
There is a large portion of the community that is in favor of the change (or rather, reversion) , and had detailed their negative play experience on the other side of the proxy user. This change isn't being pulled out of Hungerford's ass. Being in the local area for PP I had voiced my complaints about the overuse of proxies, as I'm sure many others have. In early MK3, NOBODY thought about planning out turns with proxies. If you suggested it to players at the time as a use of premeasuring, they would have called it what the devs are calling it now: an abuse of the rules. Just because some pseudo-celebrity tourney players popularized it doesn't mean it is a good thing.

>And this is where Soles comes in. He might have a point, but he's doing a pretty piss poor job of conveying why he has a point.
He said nothing that other developers haven't said. Soles' response to Olannon was nothing new that we didn't see in the OP posted by Hungerford about their rationale. And as someone who is against the use of proxies (but understand points supporters have in favor for them) I had no problem understanding what he was conveying in his post.

>>52857012
Pagani and Shick wouldn't write that way in the first place.

Pagani writes very short concise snippets while shick tries to hype how X is a great thing. I mean I don't trust shick but he does know how to write to entice.

It's not that Soles is skullfucking me, he keeps on whipping out his dick near my eye which makes me think of skullfucking. The man says way too much somehow in too few words.

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>>52828307

Hey guys, me and a friend are playing our very first games today. I've been collecting Menoth for a while just because I like their look so I've got quite a bit to choose from, but he's just started a Cryx army and I know all he has are jacks and a colossal. We're gonna do 50 points max (probably less, around 40, he doesn't have a whole lot built yet).

Any suggestions on what I should bring? I have the Mk 3 faction book and faction deck for Menoth but don't think I'm gonna bother with theme forces this time, but here's what I've got to choose from:

Feora 1 and 2
Kreoss 1
Reznik WoA
5 Daughters of the Flame
10 Flameguard with officer & standard
10 Cleansers with officer & standard
10 Zealots with Monolith bearer
10 Deliverers
10 Errants
5 Cinerators
3 Vanquishers
1 Crusader
2 Repenters
1 Revenger
1 Avatar

I want the game to be fun but I also don't want to be completely helpless against his heavies. Help a newbie out?
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard

>>52856744
>I have no problem with premeasuring if the autists wouldn't throw 20 million proxys on the board. I literally watched a game where someone walked up, said what the hell is going on here when two competitive players had all these proxy bases everywhere. Then joked, why don't you just play with bases with names at that point and laughed.

Honestly, what does it matter to you? Those players were clearly fine with using an excessive amount of proxies and markers and your spectating hardly matters at that point.

I'm all for cleaning up the table from clutter and adding more stipulations so that things are more clear(proxy bases must be labelled with a front arc, and must be replaced with the actual model asap, as an example), but the current ruling is too draconian and really it hurts the casual players more than the WAAC fags anyway.

WAAC fags will always do something to annoy people like you, just don't play against them if you can help it. They will play Haley2 or some flavour of the month bullshit, they'll use excessive amounts of widgets, they'll try to cheese you in an argument to sneak out a win, etc. There's nothing to do about that.

Premeasuring has overall been very healthy for the game in terms of settling disputes before they even happen. I've never once in Mk3 had any problems with model placement or distances with my opponent, and I've only called over a judge for a rules clarification or as someone who can hold a laser or measure with steady hands.

Premeasuring is a thing now, and it's a joke that PP didn't expect the game to come to this when they introduced it. A player should be able to do what they like during their turn so long as it's clear and on their clock. If it annoys you then sorry, but I personally prefer to see my opponent visually plan his turn on the table than them sitting silently in the think tank for 20-30 minutes.

>>52856871

I hear ya and I appreciate your point. Maybe certain players just approach the game for a certain level of enjoyment/experience and when those two viewpoints overlap, shit happens.

I think you are spot on about guesswork keeping certain strategies and tactics from becoming too powerful. Watching people measure out the movement + range of their guns, then comparing that to the opponents unit. Then moving up a nut hair outside of that range means either the other player has a Feat that protects that unit, has a defensive tech/spell to protect that unit (Assuming the opponent doesn't have a to hit buff) or just hoping to hell the opponent misses and rolls bad.

But really think this through. Let's say in Mk 2 you were going to go for an assassination and wasn't sure. That element of risk was part of the plan right? And was exciting no?

Now, and I have watched this happen several times in Mk 3, you will see a player do this;

Put out a proxy to where something needs to go and clear a charge lane.
Put out another proxy to his other heavy when that charge lane is cleared to clear another heavy, removing a Fury transfer to a light.
Put out 4 proxy bases of a ranged unit that can get withing LOF and range of the caster.
Put out a caster proxy where it can charge, then sling spells at the caster.
Put out another proxy where another ranged model can put down a shot.

Then, figure out I have a 70% here, a 80% here with a backup, a 90% here..so my total chance is X%.

Then I've watched the other player, after sitting there watching this guy explain his turn for 10 minutes before a model has moved, say "Well just roll the dice then and see if it happens"

What. A. Game.

>>52857849
>Those players were clearly fine with using an excessive amount of proxies and markers and your spectating hardly matters at that point.

Actually, no they weren't. Everyone does it when they want to win but everyone also admits it looks like ass when it's happening.

And that DOES matter at a LGS. It's a meme but seriously, watch someone at a LGS walk up to two different tables and tell me what's going to grab their attention:

A table full of Infinity terrain, painted up with painted models on the board.

A table full of unpainted metal/plastic with neon proxy bases every where.

So how many of the people who complain about proxies ruining the visuals of our tables actually play painted?

I know I do, because I enjoy games that look better more. I don't judge you if you don't judge me for making precision measurements. Because I also enjoy precise and interesting games over random BS. If I wanted that I'd be playing some flavor of Warhammer.

>>52857849
>but the current ruling is too draconian and really it hurts the casual players more than the WAAC fags anyway
lol what? Casual players do not use proxy bases. Casual players do not go to Broken Egg, Muse on Minis, Discount Games, etc. and buy a bunch of proxy bases that interlock/magnetize with their custom measuring widgets.

>Premeasuring is a thing now, and it's a joke that PP didn't expect the game to come to this when they introduced it.
Why is it a joke? 40k doesn't end up like this. Guild Ball hasn't ended up like this, and they outright let you use proxy shitstorms.

Everybody understood "premeasuring" to be with the tape measure only, and proxy bases to use only when arms/bits collide with each other. PP didn't spell it out in the book because they assumed that most people wouldn't be as autistic as tourney players have been.

>>52857920
>Actually, no they weren't. Everyone does it when they want to win but everyone also admits it looks like ass when it's happening.

Who is "everyone", you're starting to reference people and their ideas that I have no relation to. No one in my meta gives a flying fuck about proxy bases and markers.

>A table full of unpainted metal/plastic with neon proxy bases every where.

The ruling is based on Steamroller rules, which are strictly tournament rules. I know that everyone defaults to Steamroller rules when they play games, because that's the sort of community we have, but they're designed by default to be played on a competitive level, not necessarily to impress every normie that wanders into the LGS.

Having unpainted/unbased models on the table, 2D terrain, low quality tokens are all equally as unappealing for an outsider to look at, but none of those are restricted in the Steamroller document either.

>>52832623
Right faggots I just got back, here's how shit went down.

>R1 Lost
Hexeris1 v Zaal1. Immortals are a pain in the dick, but the real winner here was his Archidon under Last Stand. It killed my Agonizer, then Orin Midwinter, then on its last attack it crit my Cannoneer, threw it into my Gladiator, he spiked to FUCK on both of their rolls, then because they were knocked down his Immortals could swarm my caster. Felt real bad.
>R2 Lost
Xerxis1 v Assram. Pretty grindy. Ferox did fuck all but die, Cetrati were gods, but in the end him being able to control a flag with any of his models on the table did it. I was forced to leave Xerxis open and he died.
>R3 Won
Makeda3 v Kreoss1. Karn failed to hit 8 on 3d6 and died like a bitch because of it, which was a serious pain considering the list is Makeda, Karn, and 80 points of support. I rushed over to a flag and started scoring, he couldn't do too much about it, and he ended up clocking out.
>R4 Won
Makeda3 v Karchev. I picked off a few heavies relatively safely, then he went all in and left a charge lane open between Makeda and Karchev, I got there on the last damage roll. PS17+3d6 is one hell of a thing.

>>52858069
>lol what? Casual players do not use proxy bases.
Weird. I just played against a new player a few days ago and distinctly remember him placing two proxies down to represent where his two jacks should go lateron. That was SR17, but I forewent telling him to stop for obvious reasons. New players don't need any bullshit regulations. The game has plenty legitimate regulations for them to remember already.

>>52858029
>So how many of the people who complain about proxies ruining the visuals of our tables actually play painted?
I play painted, and not just "I slapped my primary colors on the model" but I've colored everything as the OP packets state: fur, skin, metal, leather, etc is all a different color.

I'm also a faggot who is somewhat underwhelmed by 2D terrain (typically I can convince painted opponents to put trees on forests and use actual buildings). The only thing that should be 2D are hills (because balancing on dice is so 2000s) and trenches (because how do you 3D a trench).

>>52858071
>Having unpainted/unbased models on the table, 2D terrain, low quality tokens are all equally as unappealing for an outsider to look at, but none of those are restricted in the Steamroller document either.

If that's the game you want, have fun with it.

And yes, PP wants to impress normies that walk into LGS. Of course they do. You might not give a shit but I can guarantee they do.

And Steamroller isn't a bible. It's mutable, can be changed (like what they're doing) if it's in their best interest as a company and in the best interest of the game. This is both IMO.

>>52858069
>lol what? Casual players do not use proxy bases. Casual players do not go to Broken Egg, Muse on Minis, Discount Games, etc. and buy a bunch of proxy bases that interlock/magnetize with their custom measuring widgets.

Most professional/competitive players already know how to eyeball distances correctly. This ruling will, realistically, barely affect them. Most people at your LGS probably do not use proxies to the extent that most people are complaining about, but they are still hit with the same restrictions as the best players in the world.

>Why is it a joke? 40k doesn't end up like this. Guild Ball hasn't ended up like this, and they outright let you use proxy shitstorms.

I live in the North West, and I can tell you that absolutely Guild Ball players use the same level of proxying as in Mk3, the only reason you don't see people complain about it is because GB has alternating player activation, and the model count is a fraction of what Warmachine games have, so it's not as apparent. Warmachine players definitely take it to the extreme, but the evidence of how premeasuring would be used was already pretty evident in other game systems.

>>52858143

I play 100% painted.

The game is becoming VassalMachine. Most games look like ass now. Not that most games ever looked that good but at least it was a model and not a orange glowy marker with words in dry erase on it.

>>52858186
>Most professional/competitive players already know how to eyeball distances correctly. This ruling will, realistically, barely affect them.

But it's ironic, some of the newer 'top players' that sink their savings and life into this game are the loudest ones bitching. It's hilarious and sad.

>>52858178

>If that's the game you want, have fun with it.

It's completely out of my control, as I'm only one player. I try to get my army looking nice, paint front arc markers, and use 3D terrain. I try to do my part for the game the same way you do yours. But ultimately it's not in our control to figure out how our meta shapes up to be.

This game has always been known to attract the type of wargamers who want a highly competitive precision wargame. I'm sorry to say that it's not the intention of most players to showcase the game. The outcome of releasing pre-measuring to this community should have been the most predictable thing in the world, really.

>>52858186

>Most professional/competitive players already know how to eyeball distances correctly.
Most will also continue to use bases/widgets to make sure that 1.) I agree with the measurements so there's no surprises when they activate, and 2.) because why gamble in a serious setting when you have the option to measure it out.

>This ruling will, realistically, barely affect them.
Hoo boy, have you not been reading the CID forum? They're the ones barking loudest. (Probably the ones who bought BEG and other overpriced "laser-cut precision measuring devices")

>Most people at your LGS probably do not use proxies to the extent that most people are complaining about
There are numerous people who have multiple proxy bases, connected by widgets, to plan out the precise route each model will take. On feat/assassination turns, they spend upwards of 10-15 minutes just doing this (and then I get to laugh when their dice suck and the plan unravels). They are typically the kind of players who get their names up on Discount Games Inc.

>I live in the North West, and I can tell you that absolutely Guild Ball players use the same level of proxying as in Mk3
Where? My NW's GB died in the summer when MK3 came out.

>the evidence of how premeasuring would be used was already pretty evident in other game systems
Again, premeasuring to this extreme is not seen in 40k, the other largest and most similar system.

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The rulebook doesn't actually say anything about proxy bases as far as I can tell.
How did it get to be this big of an issue?

>>52858308
>There are numerous people who have multiple proxy bases, connected by widgets, to plan out the precise route each model will take. On feat/assassination turns, they spend upwards of 10-15 minutes just doing this (and then I get to laugh when their dice suck and the plan unravels). They are typically the kind of players who get their names up on Discount Games Inc.

By "most people" I was definitely still referring to the more casual players at your store.

>Where? My NW's GB died in the summer when MK3 came out.

Canada West

>Again, premeasuring to this extreme is not seen in 40k, the other largest and most similar system.

7th edition 40K is also such a mess in terms of balance and precision that it's practically a pay2win model currently. The threat ranges of certain things are so absurd that you barely need a tape measure. Warmachine is a game that can be decided within a half inch, for better or worse, so that's why we are where we are.

>>52858222
>VassalMachine
This. The people bitching about precision and "skill" are the kind of people who think that this should be a perfect 1:1 computer simulation. That's what Vassal is for, and what Tactics should have been.

If this game were meant to showcase skill 100% of the time, we would be playing with averages and not dice, and results wouldn't be skewed by snake-eyes/box-cars.

>>52858308
>>Most professional/competitive players already know how to eyeball distances correctly.
>Most will also continue to use bases/widgets to make sure that 1.) I agree with the measurements so there's no surprises when they activate, and 2.) because why gamble in a serious setting when you have the option to measure it out.
Yeah cause that is the cleanest way of playing.
>>This ruling will, realistically, barely affect them.
>Hoo boy, have you not been reading the CID forum? They're the ones barking loudest.
Can't say much about volume in the text-based format but I've seen all kinds of players citicizing this proposed change.
>>Most people at your LGS probably do not use proxies to the extent that most people are complaining about
>There are numerous people who have multiple proxy bases, connected by widgets, to plan out the precise route each model will take. On feat/assassination turns, they spend upwards of 10-15 minutes just doing this (and then I get to laugh when their dice suck and the plan unravels). They are typically the kind of players who get their names up on Discount Games Inc.
I'm not the guy you are replying to but why is that bad? The people that know this game well enough to win at it want it to be as precise as possible. And that makes it a bad thing?
>>the evidence of how premeasuring would be used was already pretty evident in other game systems
>Again, premeasuring to this extreme is not seen in 40k, the other largest and most similar system.
I'm kind of happy this game is nothing like 40k. If I wanted 40k, I'd play 40k.

>>52858356
It really isn't. It wasn't even mentioned at all before this wednesday.

>>52858356

Basically, you can measure to any point from any point at any time. Proxy bases are essentially just a circular measuring tool.

Really the way most people played it was 100% fine but is now still illegal with the new rules. Once again it's hyper competitive try hards that ruin it for the rest of us. The thing is that now the same tryhards will just move on to something else that will piss people off, there's no end to it.

>>52858356
>A player can measure any distance for any reason at any time.
That's all the rules say, and the rule book really only specifies needing a tape measure to play.

However, people extrapolated it in the following progression:
>I can measure from any point to any point.
>I can use a dice/base/bead to mark a spot on the board as a stand-in for me physically holding the tape measure at that spot.
>There is no limit to the number of things I can measure at any time, so I can lay out widgets of certain measurements.
>There is no activation or specification as to what I can measure, nor phase restrictions, so I can lay out bases and widgets at any time to represent my premeasurements.
>Since games tend to want to use deathclock now, and the rules only specify that I must premeasure on my clock, I can use my clock time to do all of the above types of premeasurements.
And that's how we ended up with Proxymachine.

>>52858291
>The outcome of releasing pre-measuring to this community should have been the most predictable thing in the world, really.

I agree with this part anon. You play painted and use 3D terrain, we'd be pals in real life. I'll just leave our other disagreements there.

Makes me sad to see the game this way.

>>52858431
>Once again it's hyper competitive try hards that ruin it for the rest of us

Yep, pretty much sums it up. You see a lot of competitive players making fun of various Facebook communities for their disagreements. They really make the community kind of poison in my opinion.

>>52858490
>people extrapolated

>a player can measure any distance for any reason
>for any reason
>FOR ANY REASON

They easily could have just kept the old control range+weapon range premeasuring, and simply added that you can measure from any model to any other model.

I'm trying to be neutral, but PP were the ones who shot themselves in the foot to begin with if this isn't what they wanted.

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>>52858497

I-it's not like I wanted you to agree with me on something anyway, b-baka.

>>52858546
>a player can measure any distance for any reason
>CAN MEASURE
Let's emphasize a different word here. Given the way the rule book is laid out (you read it, right?) the implication here is that you can measure *with your tape measure* any distance for any reason. They didn't specify "no proxies" because at the time there was literally nobody playing the way that certain players have started to play right now. How do you pre-emptively write a rule you don't know you will need? That's how you bloat books with excessive regulation.

>I'm trying to be neutral, but PP were the ones who shot themselves in the foot to begin with if this isn't what they wanted.
But they didn't shoot themselves in the foot. It's pretty straightforward; most players did not do this when Mk3 introduced premeasuring. It was a select few tournament players who started advocating for this style of play, and it was memed into existence.

All of the devs flat out said why they wanted to allow premeasuring. And it wasn't so that you could proxy your entire turn before you committed to it.

>>52858381
>Canada
O-oh... south of the border it's dead. :(

>>52858705

Still pretty popular in Alberta.

It died in BC similar to how you described but it's picking up a lot of traction recently.

>>52851738
The changes are good so far, so it's okay. I mean the only reason I'm still here after mk3 is how pp handled the following releases.

I have pretty much whole faction so switching models doesn't bother me. Removal of annoying stuff like Karchev/Una or introducing bad models back into the game via themes on the other hand creates a positive expectation for game's future.

How much support is too much support in an army?

>>52859683
The more I play, the less support I want to play. Unless it's auto-include (Choir, Handlers, Krielstone, etc.), or it can't do something REALLY important (Mortitheurge Willbreaker, Gallows Grove, Journeyman Warcaster), then don't even consider it. Really just don't. Lists need to be lean and focused as fuck.

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>>52858391
>static damage numbers
>flip a coin for critical effects
>hex grid movement
Ayyy check it out I fixed your game nerds

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The best terrain option is a mixed 2D/3D terrain.

Use 3D buildings and walls. There's no reason to use or need flat ones. Extra style points if you use actual buildings and ramps you can walk up, so that volume rules actually matter for once in the game.

Use 2D forests with 3D trees on them. That way, you get the visuals but can move them when you load your unit of elven faggots in it.

Use 2D trenches, unless you've made a static table with 3D trenches built-in. Then for the love of christ use the god-damn table with them.

Use 2D hills. Nobody likes balancing their metal monstrosities like Karchev or Abby2 on a hill, only to have them tumble because the fatass down the table bumped it and broke off your precariously-glued bits.

Actually use fire/acid, you faggots, because they create some diversity on the table. Not all terrain needs to buff your DEF. Bonus edgelord points if you use an actual tray full of acid, to give incentive to throw models at it.

Use 3D fog, by having your hipster #VapeNation opponent show off how much lung capacity he has for dick sucking. :^)

Use 2D SR objectives, so you can put terrain on top of them and mark the zones with ease. Flags can be 2D because you can measure through them.

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>>52858627
>Nichijou was six years ago
Just end my life already

>>52860042
>the poorest people in china have multi-story handcrafted homes with gorgeous views
>while murricans live in factory-made box houses in concrete jungles
why live?

>>52860042
>Use 3D fog, by having your hipster #VapeNation opponent show off how much lung capacity he has for dick sucking. :^)

I laughed.

>>52860042

There I go again, nodding along to anons on the internet.

>he's probably a transvestite ax-murderer or something

>>52858100

Yeah, you have to watch out for Zaal1/Archidon now. Archidon is probably overspec'd now and sees its balance in being slightly fragile and hard to fit into fury management after it gets up and goes and does stuff (if nothing else, it outdistances the beast handlers). Zaal1+Last Stand... does not care about things that happen after the turn ends. Murderin' time.

>>52860646

Hell, if anything it gave him an extra margin on going all-in for the assassination. Any fury on that Archidon when it keels over is going straight into camping.

>>52860578
on the internet, no one knows you're a normal dude

I am ready for the derp turtle to make Skorne unstoppable!

>>52856683
>there uses
REEEEEEEE

>>52862489
It's already good, man.

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FUCKING NORMIES GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY GAME REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

If you could add one unit to your faction, what would you add?
I would like to see a more long range basic unit for Trollbloods. Sort of like Kriel Warriors but ranged. I always liked how Trollbloods feel like the middle ground between Warmachine and Hordes with their technology.

>>52857713
Were is your choir?
You cant play Menoth without it.

>>52865617
Monkey paw wish granted

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>>52865617
>>52865839
Forgot my pic

>>52865855
Yeah basically I was hoping for a version of them that doesn't suck.
As it turns out, one point of armor is not enough to boost their survivability over, say, a scattergunner. Even if they are cheap as hell.
and it makes me sad cause these guys are really cool

>>52858643
>They didn't specify "no proxies" because at the time there was literally nobody playing the way that certain players have started to play right now
It's how everyone played once pre-measuring was previewed sometime in April/May last year. It's alos how judges resolved measuring disputes since Mk2. It just became the single most important issue in WMH right now because PP released a stupid rule and now proxy-allergic autists are coming out of their basements to shit on precision gameplay.

>>52864567
>Join Date: Apr 2017

>>52866709
looks like CID so cannot be earlier than that

>>52866825
I'd thought that, then realised that it conflicted with my narrative.

Getting back into the game after shelving my Legion stuff a few months before MK3. My usual play group travels to tournies around the state and a few national events as well and have told me that theme forces are pretty much required now because you can get a shitload of free stuff using them. Are they exaggerating or is this something I need to practice on if I want to jump back into the tourney circuit?

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>>52866831
Fugg Pagani replied that it is being looked at.

>>52866825
>>52866831
You can join in March fucking casuals.

>>52866869
Yes, game is themeforce, the game now

Which of the two Menoth themes in the Command book is better? Or are they about the same?

>>52866872
Well GG no re, it's only a matter of time before we start getting transgender otherkin warcasters now.

Are you ready for the steamy lesbian romance subplot between Haley and Karcheva The Fabulous (don't call her Karchev, that name is dead to her!).

>>52867318
It depends on what you want to run. Amon gets a whole lot out of Creator's Wrath, and the Flameguard one is okay with Thyra, Feora and a few others.

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>>52868310
It takes some serious /pol/ delusion to instantly go from "risk-averse corporation replaces 'he' with 'they' in some document" to "everything is now LGBTWTFBBQ help muh pure white race is dying".

So why don't you take your insecurities back to /pol/ where they belong? Or to:
>captcha related

>>52868310
>otherkin
Circle are already mostly dogfuckers. Vlad, like any other steppe prince, probably has a stable of oiled catamites. Kallus is an autistic Ken doll. Papa Toruk doesn't give two shits about what you do with your meat so long as you bring in the souls and corpses.

>>52868310
Karcheva the Fabulous a legend of the motherland and of body positivity throughout the Iron Kingdoms!

>>52868578
And if you're not positive about her current body, she'll have her head removed from it and put into one you DO like.

>>52869016
> I kinda liked your Juggernaut chassis more.

>>52868310
Eh, this is something of a stretch.

I've always used gender neutral terms when writing technical stuff or anything like a player manual. It's nothing to do with social justice issues, it's just common sense. I don't know what gender the user/player will be, so I don't specify. I can't say I really notice it or that it bothers me when other people do, but for me not doing so is pretty much automatic.

There's a difference between showing basic consideration for your audience and inviting in the otherkin. Not that Warmahordes doesn't have its fair share of otherkin. Kaya is obviously maximum yiff and I'm pretty sure Dahlia thinks she's a snek.

Is it worth bringing Marketh with Rasheth to get another Breath of Corruption down every turn? You can just throw it from a safe range and bet on deviation, then get a free upkeep off him, and have him available as a multi-shot arc node if needs be. It feels like it should be good.

>>52864567
Honestlyn I don't see what the problem is. They politely requested that the pronoun's be swapped every so often which is fairly reasonable and something most companies do for stuff like this.

>>52866825
>DIE CID SCUM

>>52866869
Unless your faction is blessed with some sick out of theme combos you should play themes.

>>52870004
>Meanwhile, in Skorne...

>>52866869
Exaggeration.

A good player out of theme will still demolish a bad player running theme.

I haven't run a theme list since MKIII started, mostly because one of my factions only has one and I'm not a huge fan of the other's, and I've been doing fine.

>>52870125

That's really not original or enlightening.

Of course a good player out of theme will beat a bad player. High level play is what he's talking about and that's a bunch of good players. Don't state something so dense and obvious, it mires down discussion.

Yes, ThemeMachine is real and boring as F.

>>52865824
Can you play Protectorate, though?

>>52866869
Basically.

They're not like the Mk2 power themes, but almost always better than playing out of theme.

>>52870279
>That's really not original or enlightening.

We're not in a philosophy class, mate.

>Of course a good player out of theme will beat a bad player.

Allow me to rephrase. The better player will still win 90% of the time despite playing out of theme.

>>52870721
Yes but good player vs. good player means the theme force is more likely to win.

>>52870721

Theme forces aside, stating a 'better' player will win 90% of the time is likely false as well. Unless the skill level disparity is so great, even dice can't happen.

Because I have without doubt, loss to lesser players than myself when they took a 5%er and just diced me.

If you give someone 10+ free points and the restrictions aren't harsh in the current meta (See Troll POD for example), they will beat an equally skilled Troll player more often than not that is playing out of theme.

>>52870076

Skorne's still exploring the faction, I think. Although somebody evangelized Doug Hamilton to Zaal2, who was orthodox back in mark 2 so they're still doing that at least.

>Not going to lie, I'm probably going to cringe a bit when they give that guy a theme force.

So, ive not played in ages and on wed im playing my first mk3 game.
This is the best list I can make with most of the models I own.

Looking for some feedback.

75 points

Grissel Bloodsong, Fell Caller(*29points)
* Troll Axer(10points)
* Dire Troll Mauler(15points)
* Troll Impaler(11points)
* Trollkin Runebearer(4points)
Stone Scribe Chronicler(4points)
Trollkin Fennblades(15points)(12models)
* Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer(5points)
Trollkin Long Riders(20points)(5models)
Horthol, Long Rider Hero(8points)
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes(9points)(7models)
* Stone Scribe Elder(3points)

>>52871370
Dice can indeed always happen.

>If you give someone 10+ free points and the restrictions aren't harsh in the current meta (See Troll POD for example), they will beat an equally skilled Troll player more often than not that is playing out of theme.
>Yes but good player vs. good player means the theme force is more likely to win.

Very few players are on exactly the same level. A battle between two good players will rarely be equal, since one is likely to just be the better tactician out of the two. Or one is just on point that day while the other isn't.

All of these things make more impact on the outcome of a game than whether both players are in theme, as far as I can tell.

Speaking of themes, I'm starting to think that Forges of War is going to become unbelievably obnoxious once that new Shyeel engineer unit comes out.

Assuming they can give out focus, they plus Arcanists are going to make that list ridiculously efficient.

>>52866869

If you are going beast heavy there's little reason to not play Oracles outside of character beasts, and Typhon and Proteus are stapled to good casters anyway. 20 points of support solos is rad, and you'd normally be bringing double Forsaken anyway.

>>52838436
If memory serves they are about 45 mm tall for the lights, 50 mm tall for the regular heavies, and 55 - 60mm tall for the "special" heavies like stormclad (not counting banners). They are all a bit taller / bulkier than the old metal ones.

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I will never run the Winds of Death theme because Venators are not hoksune.

>>52873748
Thank you this is what I was looking for.

>>52873856

>Mommy, the weird stone that came with those vendor-trash swords you bought me from that flea market in Shyrr is doing it again. Tell it to shut up already!

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>>52868415
>>52869479
>>52869713
It's not a stretch when there are literally posters saying "yes because gender is non-binary" and other people going "I hope they include non-binary pronouns".

There was even a subdiscussion about how painting your model's front arcs in red or green is disadvantaging colorblind players and you're a shitlord if you do so.

>>52873856
Check out Captain Edgelord, Mall Ninja of the California Inland Empire.

>>52871202
Most faction's Themefags are just begging to get dicked on by Spell Assasssins.

Don't believe me? Try to play Rahn into Harkevich with 4 free solos and then try again against Harkevich with Orin Midwinter.

On another note, shoving Stealth Models down a Rocketeer Spam list will make it cry.

>>52872159
Impaler sucks. Have anything else to put in its' place?

>>52874455
It's also interesting to note that these off-topic fags weren't touched, but anyone who commented they didn't like the changes in as equally as stupid of a manner were infracted or banned.

>>52874455
What is it about PP that attracts these SJW faggots in droves? Every year the beer model comes out and the forums explode with "BUT MUH INCLUSION" over the slutty girl models. They even demanded a male pinup the last two years. I pound dudes in the ass regularly and I don't even want to see a male pinup beer model. Keep it to the ladies, that's what American pinup style is all about.

Is it genuine outrage and butthurt or is the WMH community just full of white knights who think they're helping? Spoiler: they're not.

>>52874455
There have been people saying this stuff for years.

That doesn't mean any wargames or TTRPGs have ever actually listened and done the xe xim xis shit. It's not profitable for them to do that, as some people (a lot of people) would find that shit confusing, and companies are profit-seeking machines. This is why, at the very most, you see little blurbs to one side saying "yah yah whatever you can make our setting more inclusive when you run it, it's up to you nigga" in these systems.

There's nothing actually wrong with using gender neutral terms like 'their' and 'the player's' and the like. In fact, most professional documents are written like this, for obvious reasons - they're meant to be addressing an audience of two genders. Doing this does not mean every warcaster will now be a transcaster demilock warsexual. Stop making a big deal over literally nothing.

>>52874738
It's not unique to PP or Warmahordes.

Every large group of people has a few oversensitive morons in it. If it ever seems like there's a lot of them, it's because they're the ones most eager to make their voices heard, whereas people like you or I generally don't even give enough of a shit to post in the official forums for games they like.

>>52874738
>They even demanded a male pinup the last two years. I pound dudes in the ass regularly and I don't even want to see a male pinup beer model. Keep it to the ladies, that's what American pinup style is all about.

I dunno man, I get the distinct feeling that Thyron is handsome as fuck under that helmet, and I kinda want to see that.

What's the best way to use Bane Warriors?

I keep on trying to do tricky flanks with them but I keep feeling that I should just charge them right at the enemy.

>>52873856

You know, I think Zaal broke Hoksune. Extollers are exalting Extollers because fuck you that's why. It took forever to get started but the end of it is going to be having something other than being a sword-wielding warlord as the Skorne divine ideal.

It's going to be the difference between some future dominar asking his god for advice and getting "sword him in the head, why you no sword?" and "nuke the bastard already, and who the fuck told you it was ok to stop using the weed-blended incense in this shrine, I may not have a nose anymore but it matters you cheapskate".

>>52875166
>some future dominar
>asking his god for advice

>Skorne
>God

>>52875201

>Ancestral Guardians, totally-not-ancestral-kami-honest, we're godless hardcases not Weeaboo Nation desu.

>>52874455
>There was even a subdiscussion about how painting your model's front arcs in red or green is disadvantaging colorblind players and you're a shitlord if you do so.

You're literally complaining that someone said "Be aware if you're using red/green to denote something that those are the colors that colorblind people can't see"?

You get triggered easily, snowflake.

Someone's got to have leaks from NQ 72.

I need the Exemplar theme. Need it, I tell you.

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>>52875267

>>52875325
Counterpoint: Why does it matter what color arcs are?

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>>52875325
I'm not, but this guy was. Stop getting so butthurt. :^)

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>>52875385

>"I declare that I am the most weeaboo!"
>"Not so, Skorne, it is I that is most preoccupied with Japanese culture."
>"I disagree, weakling elf, I have seen every episode of Naruto sixteen times, and every night I snuggle with my spiked Hinata-chan dakimura!"
>"How plebeian. Watching the anime was unnecessary for me, as I read the manga. As for dakimura, such ostentations are below me, as I have manifested my waifu Chidori-chan as a tulpa. Are you even Nipponese, bryuh?"
>"I am Nipponese! I am Nipponji! I am double the Nipponj... wait, wait, do you hear something? Sounds sort of like someone casting Storm Rager nearb" -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUhVCoTsBaM
>"BEHOLD! IT IS I, SWOLE ELF, THE GREATEST WEEABOO OF THEM ALL. I AM SO SAMURAI I MARRIED MY FUCKING SWORD. GENUFLECT, WEAKLINGS."

>>52875403
It doesn't.

Snowflake here >>52874455 was literally bitching because someone said "be considerate to people with physical disabilities" in discussing something that is unlikely to ever impact him in any way.

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>>52875490
Hey faggot, check out >>52875416
I know you like going on internet crusades against anti-SJWs on the internet, but you gotta have your facts straight to not sound like a retard.

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>>52875427
>I have seen every episode of Naruto sixteen times

Jesus Christ, Skorne-san needs to commit seppuku already.

>>52875535
Not that guy, but... what point does that post make, exactly?

>>52875490

It's only a suggestion if it can be disagreed with or ignored at no cost whatsoever, anon. Don't blame people if it triggers their "just another snake cult" reflex.

>>52875535
Dude, you're the one who brought up someone talking about it as an example of a "problem" in the CID stuff. You're the only one getting triggered here.

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>>52875565
In the great pronoun debate, I guess it just boils down to "I will accept pronoun/color changes, but only because they felt like making the change, not because SJWs want it."

>>52875585
Nobody falling for it mate we can all see it on the CID whats being talked about
back to r/warmachine with you

>>52875576
It can ignored though.

That screencap just shows a guy explaining how he goes about painting his bases. It doesn't even say people SHOULD do this.

Anyway, good on him for thinking of it, I guess. I ain't repainting shit, but it was pretty smart of the guy to remember that shit and take it into account. I'm never gonna criticize a dude for doing a small thing that might make someone else's life slightly easier.

>>52875619
>but it was pretty smart of the guy to remember that shit and take it into account
PP better change Khador and Circle color schemes so that the minute amount of colorblind warmachine players don't feel like they've been treated inconsiderately.
after all we wouldnt want people to confuse the two factions

>>52875654
I don't recall saying PP should do anything.

Learn to read nigga.

What the fuck is the Grolar supposed to do?

>>52875654

Yes! And Una is clearly a Khadoran and should be in Khador!

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>>52875702
Remember that there was that one Circle version of Old Witch! NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED.

>>52875668
You don't even know what the fuck is being talked about. Suggest you take your own advice.

>>52875752
I am not even commenting on a wider argument, you oversensitive moron. If you think I'm not, you're probably confusing me with someone else.

All I've said is that I think it was cool that this guy did something nice for someone else. I'm not gonna do it myself, as that would take a fair bit of time, and I don't think anyone else should have to do it.

>>52875427
Huh, someone turned my post into pasta.

Neat.

>>52875996

It uses two pictures to really work, and you also have to remember that the second one is to be spoilered. Annoying as hell.

>>52875385

The Skorne guy there isn't so much weaboo as Historical. Nyss is shogunate epic-samurai. Skorne is waring states/korean adventure mass-produced slasher-man.

>but this was probably the most beautiful and epic swordfight ever, only the crows circling above even knew it happened, and they didn't even bother to eat one of the corpses because it was blighted.

>>52876087
It's an advanced technique, it requires guts, hard work, and perfect timing.

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>>52875385
>>52875427
Mada mada.

>>52875975
>oversensitive
>oversensitive
>oversensitive
Keep repeating it. Like most leftists who think that repetition makes things true.

>>52876824
Literally don't care about people doing this as a whole.

Just thought it was cool that one person had the idea and did it. Why can't you get this through your thick skull? Why are you so ridiculously opaque? Could it be that you just want to argue with anyone, over anything, and you're just inventing things to be outraged over as a result?

>>52876824
Can we avoid shitting up the thread by assigning political buzzwords to people? That would be greeeeaaatttt.

On topic, someone sell me on Helios. I keep almost buying the kit but I don't have any ideas for actually using it in lists. Seems like it never has enough focus to do everything it wants and it's not that much cheaper than Hyperion.

>>52876551

Oh, it's even more weaboo than ever now that Ryssovass are an Iosan unit. They're probably debating eachother in scholarly ancient Lyossian (their only common language), about how one is a fool that is defending an undeserving people not even his own, and one is attacking a land that is so alien to him as to be not worth having even if he took it. How both have come so far and endured so much just to die over a people they both hold to be worthless and insane. How the Skorne front has collapsed and Gryshllyd-reborn's forces will be around to kill the surviving praetorian shortly anyway. How no warrior, even a Skorne, deserves that blaspheme. They will call eachother comrade. And then their swords will begin to clash.

>>52876878
>calls other people butthurt
>keeps replying in butthurt manners
l m a o xD

Just understand that whoever this wandering wizard was, probably could explain himself in greater detail, but could suffer allot of backlash because SJWs like shutting stuff down.

Same goes for PP. The reason they didn't shut it down was to prevent negative publicity.

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>guy makes post suggesting proportional pronoun representation
>INFRACTED
(((equality)))

>>52877335
It's not equality to deny representation to a smaller group of people because there's less of them, you silly billy. We call that a tyranny of the majority.

There's a reason the vast majority of documents say stuff like 'their' instead of she or he. Because that's the professional thing to do in a reality where there are two genders.

Does it really hurt you to see 'their' instead of 'his'?

>>52877585
>It's not equality to deny representation to a smaller group of people because there's less of them, you silly billy. We call that a Democracy.
Fixed.

>>52877585
Its also called corrupt reasoning. No matter how good something sounds, if the origination of a good idea is in corrupt ideology is a bad thing.

A Bake sale is good. A Bake sale to raise money to blow up a kitten orphanage is bad.

>>52877616
Democracy doesn't generally imply that you pretend whoever didn't vote for you doesn't exist.

This situation is entirely dissimilar from a political election anyway. You're being intellectually dishonest in the extreme.

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>>52877335
>"guys, instead of just using neutral terms, let's go through a complex procedure every year requiring a huge survey just so I can have the satisfaction of seeing the word 'he' slightly more often than I would otherwise"

Jesus Christ you people are retarded.

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>>52877704
>inability to detect sarcasm
>both in the picture and on 4chan posts

>>52877704
How about this: Everything stays the way it is, so no one has to do extra work because nobody gives a fuck anyway.

Sounds good? Sounds good.

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>>52877585
>Because that's the professional thing to do in a reality where there are two genders.
>two genders

>>52877962
>I-I was just pretending to be retarded guys

>>52878000
Sure. What PP actually does makes very little difference to me.

I'll I'm saying is that if they choose to go with terms like 'they' and 'their' over 'him' and 'his' in future works, that's not SJW bullshit. That's just correct fucking English when you don't know the gender of the person you're talking about.

>>52874738
>I pound dudes in the ass regularly
whoa anon that's really gay

You should see the garbage Kickstarter comments that Kingdom Death 1.5 accumulated after they started adding male pinup models. There's no way to win the virtue game.
>Woooow this is just more male fantasy, how dare you further objectify women by promoting toxic masculinity

>>52878157
>I have no response

>>52878157
Grammatical tradition uses he/him as unisex gender pronouns when the gender of a subject is not specified.

The problem with they and their as pronouns in usage is that pronouns are a closed linguistic category - and that they and their can be used as plural.

>>52879408
>Grammatical tradition uses he/him as unisex gender pronouns when the gender of a subject is not specified.

...No it doesn't. They and their have been used to indicate a nonspecific human subject for decades.

>The problem with they and their as pronouns in usage is that pronouns are a closed linguistic category - and that they and their can be used as plural.

Anyone who reads English, however, understands that they and their specify individuals when used in the correct context, and can detect that context pretty easily. For example, if it is written that "When the player does [x], they must roll [x]" it is indicated to an English speaker that the writer is talking about an individual. This is no more or less useful or clear than saying "When the player does [x], he must roll [x]."

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My god.. everyone to the facebook's cygnar group .. the epic meltdown of sjw's bitching over rules being sexist has started...

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>>52879671
>using facebook

What would I be looking at if I wanted to run as few infantry units as possible?

>>52879671
Man I'm not in that group :( I wanna see the drama

>>52879776
>>using facebook

in my area alot of games and tourneys are schedueld on facebook. also apparently it's going sideways on the CID forums as well

>>52879776
also most of the quality entertaining posts (aka shitposters bitching) went to Faction FB threads since PP nixed the faction forums .. quality entertainment to be had there now.

>>52879785
Warmachine or Hordes?

Pretty much every Warmachine faction can run 'jack heavy lists at this point. Khador is pretty much the best at it, but this may change in future, with new releases and erratas and such.

Beyond Khador, Menoth is very good at running warjacks. Retribution, Cygnar and Mercenaries are good at it but prefer more combined arms strategies (that said, Ret are about to get a major warjack support unit that may change this). Cryx is probably the least effective at running tons of warjacks.

>>52880002
Khador, menoth (amon is nuts with jack spam), Leigon is basically almost all beasts, just a few of the factions.

>>52880002
>>52880024
Either was fine. Thanks for the advice!

>>52879671
show us some

>>52880068
No prob.

As a follow up, I'd really put things like faction playstyle, aesthetic and theme above whether they're the best at running warbeasts/warjacks instead of infantry. All factions can do it to some extent and liking the look and feel of your army is often much more important than this.

I mean, if you like all the armies the same then cool, good for you, but I'd advise just picking what you think is the coolest faction. If you have any questions about playstyle or fluff or whatever I'm sure people on here will be willing to answer.

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>>52880129
just a small taste of the thread:

>>52880152
Nigga that's just people reacting.

Where's the juice? Where's the meat? Where's the actual SJW stuff?

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>>52880195
gimme some time .. i'm going through the thread it's fuckhuge now tons of replies.. sorting thru stuff

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>>52880218
it started wit this:

>>52880234
reporting back.. i think mods are deleteing stuff.

i keep clicking on 24 responces and get nothing. but the thread is still there. most of the meaty stuff is in there.

tldnr basically SJW posted on CID forums about how the rules are sexist and should be more inclusive with no he's and use they.

this set off the camp that is sick and tired of sjw's ruining things with their demands.

this started the flame war .. toss in some calling of betamales, proper english grammar where generic reffrence to a person w/o knowing the sex of that person is he .. more flaming such as sexist .. countered with heliophobe meme ...

>>52880234
Can someone tell me what the actual rule changes people wanted were?

I can't discern which party is being retarded from any of this.

>>52880312
well it's gone now.. checkign cid forums for orignal starter.>>52880314
>Can someone tell me what the actual rule changes people wanted were?

see >>52880312

>>52880312
>tldnr basically SJW posted on CID forums about how the rules are sexist and should be more inclusive with no he's and use they.

Jesus, this is dumb.

It's not an issue if PP decides to use they instead of he. That's how most things are written now when talking about a generic human subject. I don't really care what pronouns PP actually uses, but this was not worth starting a flame war over.

All the anti-SJWs have done is gone and gotten themselves banned en masse over a non-issue, which will probably mean there'll be less people around to object when/if SJWs bring up an actual issue that could be a problem, like 'the male gaze' or whatever.

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>>52880002
>6 (SIX) arcanists in one army
Everything's coming up Leafears

>>52880433
It could be more.

We don't know how many Shyeel engineer units you can run. We could see essentially nine arcanist lists.

>>52880410

Where things stood on this sort of thing is that at this point, what a few years ago was an officious yet innocuous statement is now an implicit threatening statement to radicalize a community, pretty much by that mechanism.

I suppose the test of the community is to see if it can be ridiculed without anyone going apeshit, posters and mods both. But it isn't innocent, it's baby SJWs earning their bones.

>>52880551

I'm on a longterm (nearing two decades) yahoo mailing list that has managed to avoid this shit. People use real names. People use fake names. People use puppet accounts. People have met up, broken up, and the list is still going. The trick is no contemporary political content. None. Introduce it, get a friendly reminder. Keep it up, get a stern warning. Keep at it and get gone.

>>52879785
Anything that has Synergy in it's spell list.
You're screwed in sr 2017 currently if you go all jack though.

>>52880735

>You're screwed in sr 2017 currently if you go all jack though.

Bring solos.

>>52872159
Eh, it's okay. I think you can take all those in theme and get bonuses on top.

>>52880768
Solos are very easy to remove.
I guess Menoth can score well enough with choirs since they have a lot of dudes.

>>52880551
It doesn't fucking matter.

PP using they instead of he doesn't matter. IT DOESN'T MATTER. This is simply how most official shit is written, it's how people have been writing for years and years, probably longer than either of us have been alive.

For fucks' sake pick battles that actually matter. When a SJW suggests using they instead of he, there is nothing actually damaging to the game or community that is going on there. PP going along with something like this would not magically turn you and your fellow players into speshul snowflake tumblrinas. The word 'they' will not emit radiactive homo waves that turn you gay or force you to start appreciating the tumblrina kaleidoscope of made up genders. Rather than going apeshit and making yourself look like a bunch of kneejerking fools over something completely harmless, save your arguments and keep your credibility for a time when someone actually suggests something that can damage the game/community.

I would have much preferred that you have my back when some SJW has a fit about Sorscha showing too much ankle, rather than being discredited and banned because you threw a hissy fit over terminology that isn't even incorrect and doesn't fuck up the game or setting whatsoever.

>>52880551
You sound like a friend of mine with a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia.

>>52880961

A few years ago, yes, and I would be. But *shrug*, it's just the simple shitty truth now.

>>52881008
No, you really are just a paranoid asshat.

The guy that proposed this may have believed in other SJW shit, and he may have not. Either way, the proposed change was of no threat whatsoever and would not have 'radicalized' the community in the least.

>>52881008

Specifically, they take these kids aside and tell them this is how they can "Raise Awareness" and "Be a Good Citizen". And they go out the next day and figuratively piss in their own online backyards. And why is this having to be explained in 2017 on the internet?

>>52881008
Dude, seriously.

You sound a lot like my friend, except instead of SJWs, it was Catholics he was concerned about. They "tested communities", and the young ones in training "earned their wings" during minor disputes.

We kinda just passed it off as eccentricity, but eventually he ended up begging on the street because he couldn't have a bank account because the Catholics could find him if he did.

It's really creepy how similarly you and he are talking. And it fucking sucked watching a friend spiral into mental illness.

Talk to a professional. Please.

>>52881252

I honestly don't give a shit about it, man.. I just happen to know that there is actual stuff going on that looks just like that and it's gotten to the point of gaslighting, that people are fiercely over-reacting to any hint of it.

>>52881328

And... you really should know that to, if you're like 99% of the board and did your time as a college student recently. Neophyte personal-level online activism. It's hardly a rare thing.

>>52880859
If it doesn't matter so much, why should PP change it to they, when he can be used and costs less to print?

>>52881842
really dude? "cost of ink" is your argument for using exclusively "he" in place of "he or she"?

>>52881960

The way their copy editing has been, anyone want to give odds on Haley getting mis-gendered?

>so future-echo Haley has a bulge now

>>52882022
I'm on board with trap Haley/Denny. PP make it so.

>>52881960
really dude? you care so much that you can't take he being used as a gender neutral singular? why not "you" or "one"? why must it be a plural?

>>52882022
desu i'm ok with this

Honestly if you give enough of a fuck, that you think something needs to be changed to "they", you probably shouldn't be playing a game with other people to begin with, as you are clearly not mature enough to handle social interaction.

>>52882101
of course not, I think it's a non-issue, but since it came up and some members of the community obviously care about it, I have no issue with it being changed. I just don't want the change to make the rules unclear somehow, like adding "they/their" in instances that could be misconstrued as plural rather than neutral singular.

>>52882164

The French boards are probably laughing their asses off at us right now.

>>52882048
nah .. futa haley .. nao

>>52882164
>I just don't want the change to make the rules unclear somehow, like adding "they/their" in instances that could be misconstrued as plural rather than neutral singular.

That would never be an issue.

They and their would only ever be referring to a player, and the context of the sentence will always indicate which player. If it didn't, that wouldn't be a problem with these words, it would be a problem with the actual structure of the sentence.

It would never become an issue with in interplay between models, because models are referred to by their obvious gender or as 'it', as they're not people. Rahn is a he, Sorscha is a she, etc. These aren't ambiguous readers being referred to, they're characters that PP can make definitive statements about.

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>>52880152

>I bet he/she/it/ze/zer/zis/helicopter/fartsound is in that thread
>Inb4 yes she is
>Inb4 yes he is

>>52882164
Dost thou also require them to discontinue use of the singular "You" aswell?

>>52883544
Yes, It doth displease me. Remove it from mine sight forthwith, serf!

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>>52883544
>>52883645
This is why i love this place.

and now for something more pressing...

>>52883709
Soon
Maybe
I dunno
When is the next errata hitting anyway

>>52883709
cygnar meta is already adjusting to a speculative lance nerf. It's now all jacks all the time, with some people hopefully prognosticating about the trencher theme list, when they'll be able to finally play Cygnar's only other infantry unit.

>>52883762
no idea.. current cid is 2017 scenarios .. next up near end of the month is the battle engine cid.

duno if stormlances will get cid before errata.

>>52883814
I thought the next CID was happening Wednesday?
That's what this guy >>52854803 said

>>52883799
I wish Sword and Precursor Knights were good.

Also, do you think Menoth will get a theme centered around zealots? It sees rather unlikely considering they're in the main command book, but one can hope.

>>52884257
battle engines I think though, not any units,

>>52882652
I just propose using "it" as an all-genders-exclusive pronoun. You want to feel included? Well how about the fucking machines and scripts, you homo-centric assholes?

"The first player deploys any of its models with Advance Deployment that it did not place in step 4..."

"Battles can be won or lost purely by how well a player manages its models’ fury and how it forces its warbeasts."

Looks good to me. 100% gender neutral with no ugly use of "they" or "their".

>>52884483
Precursor knights are so close to being good. Just having Sacred Ward instead of their weird special rule and 1" melee would make them amazing.

>>52883709
Whoa they're getting laser lances? What do they do? Armor piercing?

>>52884483
>do you think Menoth will get a theme centered around zealots?

[Salil Sawarim intensifies]
I just want one tourney player start yelling, "Menoth hu ackbar!" every time he wins a match.

>>52858069

i play guild ball frequently and premeasuring is extreme. The difference is guild ball is a whole lot smaller because its individual model (sometimes 2 models, if they have linked) and alternating activation system.

But i absolutely see people put down a marker for charge location, another marker for a 2" dodge, another marker for another 2" dodge, then measure off that marker for range to goal etc.

if guild ball was warmachine scale & was i go you go, there would be zero difference in the amount of premeasuring

>>52887998
>if guild ball was warmachine scale & was i go you go, there would be zero difference in the amount of premeasuring
Precisely. A game of Warmachine usually requires three or less proxy markers to be perfectly clean. Limiting it to one is insane though. Especially since judges WILL use more than once to measure stuff like charges through terrain. It'seven been that way in Mk2 and I'm kind of happy players are currently allowed the same level of precision as the people judging them.

How is the game holding up in terms of popularity? Did runewars shake it up? Also, will 8th edition pose a threat to health of the wmh community?

>>52888355
It recovered from the disastrous Mk3 launch. I don't think Warhammer will have a huge impact at all. There is generally very little overlap between the appeal of these two games.

>>52882164
The proper response to people taking petty offense to a non-issue isn't to capitulate, it's to tell them to stop getting their non-gender-specific undergarments in a bunch and get over it because it's a non-issue. Otherwise you set an example for the most obnoxious complainers getting their way by virtue of simply being obnoxious, and that particular slippery slope should be obvious to everyone considering PP has already succumbed to it to some degree on the rules front.

>>52888370
But there is. They are the only two infantry centric 28mm round based non-historical large scale wargames popular enough to get pickup games in most lgs. This is an almost total overlap.

>>52888428
They overlap in the what, but not in the why. 40k is usually played for the miniatures while WMH is usually played for the game. Primarily, that is.

>>52888461
It always made me wonder why if 40k and wmh are the first thing that comes to mind when you say wargaming, why is there no successful clones? In video games the second most popular games of a kind are always copycats.

>>52888560
Probably because the entire wargaming market and community are much smaller than video games and wargames generally require a higher time commitment. There's just no room for second places here.

>>52874455

i spot three people who need a free helicopter ride

>>52858327
>premeasuring to this extreme is not seen in 40k

Being fair, even the people who like 40k will admit the actual game is basically a joke.

>>52858356

People originally used proxy based for awkwardly positioned models, especially if they had long weapons, horns, flags and other features that would hang over their bases. You moved into a space, found the model unstable/entangled there, and proxied it.

Then people started using them to see if their model could even fit in a space.

Then people started using them to see if they could move through a space.

Then people started using them to see if they could execute precise maneuvers or move very specific distances.

As some people started pursuing every edge to win, we got to the point where some use multiple proxy bases to plan out large parts of their army's turn before they ever move an actual model.

File: IMG_0045.jpg (2MB, 4032x3024px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 4032x3024px

Finished painting them. Mrs points out they look like Christmas jacks . Fuck my life

>>52874656
Just like all the post-errata threads getting shut down with "GO POST IN THE ERRATA IGNORE THREAD", but the cock-throating "thanks so much for the errata" thread was left completely untouched.

"everyone is entitled to our own opinion".

>You can use as many measuring markers or proxies as you like, but only for your deployment and current activation
Fixed.

>>52888878
Yeah, sorry. It's almost impossible to put red and green together in any large amount. Same with orange and black.

>>52888848
That's not entirely correct:

>People originally used proxy based for awkwardly positioned models, especially if they had long weapons, horns, flags and other features that would hang over their bases. You moved into a space, found the model unstable/entangled there, and proxied it.
This was the only legal use for proxy bases in Mk2 by players. Judges still used them for all kinds of precision measurements.

All of the other examples you mentioned could not be legally done by players before Mk3.

But the claim that more avenues of achieving information and precision leads to slower gameplay is simply not proven. I have seen the opposite happen. Proxy bases have sped up my gameplay massively, because it's a lot easier to commit to a plan if you know the measurements work out. Indecisive player who do not plan ahead during their opponents' turn will still play slowly, with or without proxy bases.

Simple checks like "can both of my heavies charge your colossal without blocking each other" don't take much time, inform (and thereby speed up) a decision and most importantly prevent disagreements later in the same turn.

But I am of the opinion that the more games are decided based on the players' tactical and strategic skills the better. And some disagree with that. I don't get the fascination with unpredictability, but some have it.

I get that people want to avoid 10+ proxy base mess situations, but those are damn rare already because they are simply not feasible on death clock. In fact I have not seen it happen once.

>>52888878
You're off to a good start but I'd add a bit of shading/highlighting. The colors currently look a bit flat. Don't worry about the color scheme though, it's perfectly fine. Christmas does not have a monopoly on bright red / dark green.

>>52888928
>>52888928
Even simpler:
>You can use whatever the hell you like, but you need to clean it up on your own time.
Also makes it easier to explain to new players. There's enough necessary complexity in this game to explain. No need to add any unnecessary bloat.

>(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Mammoth [38]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Aptimus Marketh [5]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Feralgeist [2]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

>(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]

God I don't even know what's good anymore.

>>52888389
Indeed.
But it is too late for that.

Best plan is to ignore them completely.

>>52888355
8th could impact in relation to those who own both. In some cases people will not like the changes 8th brings and move towards wm/h. Others might be drawn to 8th as it is an overhaul of a busted yet overall fun ish game, and at worst curiosity will compel an investigation.

There is risk that potential future wm/h players won't begin wm/h because of the clout of Nottingham. AoS seems to do not terribly with new recruits, even if it blew musty neckbeards out with the death of old fantasy. And 8th smells like it will be much like aos adjusted for the 41st millennia.

PP could be at risk of losing if 8th is a success. Mostly off the back of PP's own failings rather than Nottingham's merits.

Even without direct developer input, tournaments survived through the fuckstable that is 7th. So competitive 41st millennium toy soldiers didn't lose out to the "superior" competitive system that wm/h has to offer.

If wm/h dies it is PP who will kill it.
Nottingham has proved too big to kill, even with their own best efforts to do so.

>>52888970
Not true, proxy bases were also used to mark and measure an intended charge endpoint. "This is where I intend to go" - use a laser to check the path and adjust, and finally you were allowed to measure to see how far along that path you actually got. This was explicitly allowed (for players) by the judge document in mk2.

>>52889167
Even if PP loses some existing and potential player to 8th ed, it will still be the second biggest game in its class, no? I can't think of any other competitors and that means something. Maybe warpath, but that's pretty dead.

>>52885141
Yeah, I wouldn't mind it either.

They isn't really ugly, though. It's what most people and organizations use when writing something like this, and have for decades.

>>52888355
>Did runewars shake it up?

Lel, I don't think Rune Wars has shaken up anything. Is it even out?

>>52889167

Steamforged also has DC making some kind of skirmish game, which should at the very least prove to be stiff competition with WM/H

Steamforged's business model seems to be "How many PP players can we snipe?"

>>52880768

I played against Haley2 Heavy Metal today, she got ahead on scoring but was struggling to make it mean anything because of the win condition rules.

>>52879671
pics or it didn't happen fagget

>>52889300
>which should at the very least prove to be stiff competition with WM/H
Good. If there's something these games need it's competition. I mean, I really like WMH, but if a better game comes along I'll play that.

>>52889171
Oh, I must be misremembering that part then. I don't think it invalidates my point though.

>>52889300
Personally, I just can't get into the look of their models.

I like the idea of Guildball but none of the factions appeal to me as a whole - there's always one or two cool models and the rest are utterly boring. I've bought a few individual dudes to use as TTRPG models though.

>>52889300
>Steamforged's business model seems to be "How many PP players can we snipe?"
I mean, that's a proven way you can start a minis game company. PP got their start with WMH sniping disgruntled GW players. Mantic did the same thing (with a different group of disgruntled GW players). Once you have a player base, then you can evolve into something unique.