That DM club

>>52809126
>Players get to Big NPCs fortress where he has a room that's proof against all known forms of scrying
>Reveals a plot point, to the best of his knowledge, which is in fact wrong
>Players roll for sense motive
>Roll well
>He's telling the truth
>Players rely on it
>Get burned doublebad when they make some bad plans off the faulty data.

As opposed to OP though, I feel a bit bad over it.

>>52809126
Why are you being proud of telling everyone you're that DM?

>>52809126
Kill yourself painfully.

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>>52809271
I'll consider your suggestion

>>52809126
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9hDi-085lU

Have any real good stories m8

Op you better have stories you phaggot

Boobs for the phaggot OP

To be fair, I wouldn't let anyone make a hand cannon with a roll of 18 in anything, either. Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the third one. If anything, they saved themselves from having to fight a bunch of elves, unarmed.

>>52810070
>To be fair, I wouldn't let anyone make a hand cannon with a roll of 18 in anything, either.

That's an arbitrary line and you know it. In a world where an average craftsman would have like, a +6 modifier an 18 should easily be enough to draw up any kind of plans.

That's not actually fair or balanced, that's just the GM arbitrarily deciding things for no reason.

>>52810284

Depends how prevalent cannon technology is. If it's like cutting-edge shit and you don't have tried-and-true plans to work from, you really do run the risk of doing serious injury to yourself if you aren't smart enough to try the fucking thing out before using it in battle.

It's like thinking that because you know the general process of how a steam piston works you can build a working one on your first try.

>>52810284
Sure? I mean, you're not wrong, but neither am for dictating as such. I often run with relatively low fantasy type settings: I think it's more than fair that it's going to take more than even a 20 draw up plans for an arm cannon from scratch.

Sometimes the DM has to make a decision based on their own internal logic, and that's not wrong, either.

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>>52809126
kill self

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>>52809126
>all this and more, coming next on
>"THINGS THAT NEVER HAPPENED"

>>52809126
Some of those things are reasonable. The last is dumb because the elves don't know how it was booby trapped.

>>52810284
>Roll an 18
>Draft up detailed plans for a space shuttle

Nah

>>52810506

It's reasonable to think that he may have booby-trapped his crossbow to fire the bolt backwards, for instance, or some other painful and unpleasant experience involving a tightly-wound spring mechanism, flexible wood and elastic cord.

That said, who keeps a crossbow loaded at all times? You're going to wear out the parts.

>>52810539
I was talking about the fact he also said the bag was booby-trapped, but they picked that up and ran.

The player is kind of dumb for not just intimidating them into leaving, but the DM also handled it in a stupid way

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>group has been following dwarven military general in unserground maze to find kidnapped king
>get to a dead end
>the whole party is paralyzed (no save)
>turns out the dwarf is a satyr shapeshifter from 3 sessions ago
>satyrs steals their stuff, blood, and then uses it to summon a 50ft goblin demon with a flaming 100ft penis whip
>play out the whole scent as a cutscene and tell players there's nothing they can do to intervene.

I was THAT dm.

Sorry arc perun, beleg-mool, faonym, and orag the pimp.

>>52810339

Yeah, but if the "you aren't the first" is the excuse, it should be easier.

>>52810532

There's a big difference between the two.

Even then, multi stage rockets have existed for centuries and there's historical evidence to prove it.

>>52810591

Yeah. Banks having blue dye-packs in their moneybags doesn't stop bankrobbers, they just don't deal with the shit until they get back home.

>>52811685
Just because someone else attempted something before, that doesn't mean that makes it eaisier for you. With everything OP gave us, the PC had 0 knowledge about other attempts by others and made a schematic under those assumptions.

All that aside, a high roll =/= instant success, even if you rolled your highest. Hell, doing the best to your own abilities doesnt mean you will succeed, even if youre pretty good at it.

>>52811498
You deliberately put them in a situation where there was zero possibility of success, and then killed them all in a humiliating and nonsensical fashion. I hope they thought better than to let you ever DM again, and I hope you tell this story to any other groups unfortunate enough to allow you the job.

>>52810539
It's not nreasonable to think he would kindly alert them to his booby trap when they have the crossbow pointed at him. They're elves, not lackwits, even a 3 year old human would be suspicious of this shit. DM should have either coached a better action out of the player or told him his statement made no impact regardless of what the die roll was. Even a nat 20 can't save an action that has no chance of success.

>>52809126
The first story, honestly would depend on the bow.
There is nothing wrong with the second story since no one playing 3rd edition should think an 18 is enough to invent a new and complex piece of technology.
There is nothing wrong with the third story either, since he should have just told the elves to drop the stuff and fuck off or they're dead, which would have led to an intimidation roll. The deception was completely unnecessary.

>>52812213
>and then killed them all in a humiliating and nonsensical fashion
You know he didn't say he killed or even attacked them. Stop projecting

>>52809126
So many of these are just a GM's failure to communicate properly with their players.

Bow Damage: Surely its damage is defined by the system, with a listing in the book. If you're going to arbitrarily change combat mechanics, you should inform the player first.

Hand Cannon: If you weren't going to let them make it, you should have just explained to them that it isn't feasible and/or doesn't fit your setting, but that they could instead reasonably try making X.

Booby Trap: Not enough info given, but this one could well be on the player's end, for not clearly describing exactly what they're trying to convey with their lie. Also depends on how confident the elves were that running with the loot wouldn't set off any traps. Still, a potentially reasonable outcome.

>Wanted to have a lighthearted campaign
>All ideas that come to me after the first sessions are edgy and completely tone-breaking
>Couple it with a system that stopped working alltogether after a while, and was only kept up because of me being stubborn until recently
>Most stuff I do is full improv, which leads to bad shit that breaks the intended tone for the game

I've been changing stuff and trying to better myself after I realized a player might be leaving because of those flaws

>>52812436
Are you providing realistic negative consequences for edgy behavior?

>>52812452
No

rather I'm the one of the edgy behavior, despite me selling the campaign as a lighthearted comfy one

>>52812213
he said that he stole their blood. Most races need that.

>>52812339

Maybe he would've let a hand cannon get made, but it would require a lot more work than just one roll.

For fuck's sake, the player didn't even test it to make sure the cannon worked first.

>>52813137
The implication, as I read it, was that the physics involved make the weapon non-viable (Shoot cannon, break wrist), and if this is the case, I think the GM should have mentioned such before the PC got too far into the development process, unless the player already had good reason to suspect this would not work. Given the invention of new items isn't handled in most systems and is up to GM fiat, it's really a negotiation between the player and the GM to make sure they arrive at a result which is satisfying for the player while being setting-consistent and balanced for the GM. What was described appears to be a breakdown in basic communication, where the player clearly took the GM allowing this to be designed and constructed as implicit approval as to its efficacy. That said, I also think there's a good chance of none of this ever happening; wouldn't the player have asked for its combat stats before using it?

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>>52809126
Those are all perfectly reasonable, actually.

You absolutely are not meant to use a bow as a weapon. I'd maybe be willing to let it do a d4, as though it were a club, but there'd be a chance that it would break since, you know, it's a bow.

The second one is just fun. If the players are going around trying to invent radical new technology, undreamed of by any civilization in the last 40,000 years, then there's a good chance they'll fuck up a decent amount of the time. As long as this was a consistently applied theme, I think it's fine.

The last one is just funny as hell, and the fact that the players aren't relieved shows that they're entitled sacks of shit
>waaaah, the bandits allowed us to live but they took all our shit!
Get over it fuckface

Keep it up OP. Doing the LORD'S work out there

>>52809126
>Town knows there is a doppelganger about, screwing with the town in every facet, from destroying shops, to performing muggings, to rummaging in the BBEG's belongings while he's away
>Actually, its just one of my players who likes to be a dickhead with a hat of illusions
>Town goes into martial law until he is caught
>Player sees people entering town, assumes BBEG is coming back
>Runs over to BBEG central base, disguised as the BBEG, yelling, screaming and bloodied, telling the guards not to trust "them"
>Yells "EXECUTE PLAN 22B!!!"
>Promptly goes invisible and fades away
>Players are giggling their asses off, thinking of the possibility of screwing over both the BBEG and the story.
>I say that the guards are completely unimpressed at the random apparition of their boss running and screaming at them and disappearing, as they were told that any strange occurrences can be pinned on the doppelganger and his illusions.
>Player is disappointed that his retarded plan didn't work
>I'm disappointed that he went invisible before the guards could spear him


>Same player with same magic hat
>Disguises himself as BBEG's boss, who would never show himself in public
>Shows himself in public
>Town still under martial law, still know about a doppelganger
>Wonders why people can tell its an illusion.

>>52809126
The first one would depend on the bow and the strenght of the character. Arguabily, it would do +1 damage (and the bow would also suffer from it: it might break, so make a toughness roll difficulty the toughness rank of the enemy. Oh wait, this is not mutants and masterminds, my bad. You're playing DnD)

The second one is kind of justified. You're probably more of a sadist than me, I would've said that he takes 1d4 bludgeoning damage instead. What I would have said, though, is along the lines "Do you want to try it out on some test dummies first? You do have high intelligence, after all" and let him see that it doesn't work. It would make sense for a high intelligence character to test a new weapon before using it live.

The third one is somewhat justified. I am not a fan of sending things to nick stuff from the players, mostly because they roll fucking well on their perceptions and I always roll shit on stealth so they always manage to catch the thief even before he starts to think about stealing something in their bags...

>>52815212
At that point, I would have him make an intelligence check and if he rolls high enough explain it to him in peasant's terms.

>>52812134

A high roll isn't instant success, but it shows how hard it would be for a specialist to make a similar object

An 18 means that an average craftsman, with a +1 from stats and seven skill points, meaning minimum level is four assuming that they have only slightly above average in that stat like a regular person, with an average roll of ten, can't make it.

You're essentially claiming at that point that a hand cannon, not even a flintlock or matchlock pistol or a multi barreled weapon, is something no normal man can ever craft.

Don't bullshit anon. Something is either possible or it isn't. He isn't crafting fucking excalibur.

>>52815790
What? Even with a -2 total modifier, a normal retard could still craft it on a nat 20 if the DC is 18.

>>52809126
>can I-

For last fucking time, YES! YES YOU CAN DO THAT! These players are being treated like toddlers and they still don't know how checks work. Do they really need to ask permission for everything to you?

Next to that, they naïvely think that everything works out the way they expect it and don't bother with communicative skills or risk. They need to grow up. The exploding arm cannon is a little dickish, though. The rest is fine.

>>52811498
Sjeesh, just let them run from it.

In my case a player considers me a bad GM because my homebrew Plant monster didn't abide to the rules of photosynthesis, I should've understood that when he said "I liked that this session didn't have any combat" should mean that I should never have combat ever, and that all Constructs are Golems and they should not start attacking on sight.

He was a newbie and a metagamer, I do not regret anything.

Watching this thread and all I can see is a bunch of min-maxer's autisticly screaming to one another and to a garbo DM. Keep going peasants this is getting good~

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>Party is wandering along the road
>Come across a checkpoint manned by several soldiers
>Soldiers offer them some plot information
>Kill them all because murderhobo
>Check for traps
>There are no traps
>Looting the corpses
>Shit starts exploding all around them
>Leader instakilled
>Scout loses a leg
>medic hit by shrapnel and bleeds to death
>"WTF GM you told us there were no traps."
>mfw an artillery barrage doesn't count as a trap

Was I in the wrong?

>>52810070
Why? Its literally a cup of metal tied to a stick.

>>52818024
Should've had a warning, like a loud whistle getting closer, not just "OH SHIT EXPLOSION"

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>>52812213
Actually they let me dm again and I've greatly improved. That was my first campaign ever. I've been dming for 2 years now and it's going well. Being that dm or that guy is something that a lot of people go through before becoming good at tabletop gaming. You have to learn from your mistakes so you aren't that guy/dm again.

>>52818024
If there was some kind of warning like them noticing a radio that seems to be used very recently, then no, nothing wrong.

>>52818060
When they started looking around they did find a dead guy hunched over a (now shot up) radio and he was still holding the handset in one hand and a list of coordinates in the other.

I think that whole adventure was an autistic lesson in realism on my part.

>>52818076
>When they started looking around they did find a dead guy hunched over a (now shot up) radio and he was still holding the handset in one hand and a list of coordinates in the other
It's sort of doubtful they'd get shelled by their own position; normally one sends in a response team and avoids shelling your on positions because you can usually rescue any wounded.

Can you imagine the morale? "this guy said they were being attacked, so high command dropped an artillery barrage on their position"

"holy shit I hope I don't get my radio shot while reporting an attack or they might do the same to us"

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>>52809126
I don't see anything bad with what you did honestly
Hitting someone with a bent stick wouldn't do a fucking lot
Not testing a prototype weapon before using it is just asking for it
And it's logical to not fuck with possibly booby trapped bags in danger, better to take them with you and deal with that shit later

I'd gladly play with a DM like that

>>52818107
I belive it was more of a ''This guys are going to kill us all, might as well send in our coordinates for a shelling cause we're going down anyway.''

>>52810532
Fucking cunt

So this is just a bait general right?

>>52818129
Eh, any system a guy with automatics shooting at the party has less of an effect than an artillery barrage called in over radio sounds highly suspect to me. But that's just me.

>>52818024

You could've given them a perception checl or something along those lines for a load whistling noise.

But I chuckled because they murderhobo'd the npcs.

>>52816013
Wow it's almost like guns have existed for over a thousand years at this point and have been used in wars since before full plate armor was even a thing and aren't as complicated to construct as fantasy faggots like to imagine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8cWsjnSAc4

>implying a pc couldn't make something as complicated as this.

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>>52820920
>implying the pc already has premade shotgun ammunition lying around

>>52821048
it's the same principle fucktard
all you have to do is make an iron pipe and fill it with shot and powder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE0fT1MwSro
Just wow so complex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaR-X_HenpA
yep a gnome could never make this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alsd3JBc88U
Just get fucked OP

>>52809126
hand cannons have been around longer than you think hombre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPA-D8wtUv8
Wow look even a child can make one of these fucking things.
But a fantasy race who's entire shtick is making shit can't.
SAD

>>52820799
>>52820920
>>52821213
>>52821261
>>52821287
Gnomes don't typically have access to the internet and Wikipedia. Where do you find a pipe of the proper size and durability whe, wide-scale plumbing probably isn't a thing? Where do you magically find the ingredients and proportions to make black powder when plenty of smart alchemists have blown themselves up trying? Where do you find someone to cast extremely round metal balls for you?

There's a lot of steps to making a gun, and under a 20 shouldn't remotely cut it for drafting plans. That would mean that any random individual, independently of hearing anything about guns, has a 10% of drawing a blueprint of a full functional gun.

If he had rolled a 25 of something, I'd be more sympathetic, but 18 is not a very high roll no matter what system you're using.

Stop being so booty bothered

>>52821364
>Where do you find a pipe of the proper size and durability whe, wide-scale plumbing probably isn't a thing?
you go to any random smith, make a clay mold and cast iron, don't be a faggot
>Where do you magically find the ingredients and proportions to make black powder
Assuming this is D&D there is already rules for fucking bombs and explosives. You could also use all kinds of magical charges. Don't even meme about black powder faggot.
>Where do you find someone to cast extremely round metal balls for you?
Do you even have any idea how easy it is to cast lead? For fuck shakes for hundreds of years soldiers would cast their own shot before battles around campfires.

Stop being so fucking retarded about the history of guns.
For fuck sake HANDCANNONS have since the 1100's
Full plate armor, which is a staple in all fantasy, wasn't a thing until the 1600's

Just get fucked.

>>52821498
Anyone can roll an 18. So Joe blow with 10 INT and no education has fairly good odds of inventing firearms. If technology was that easy to advance the PCs would probably live to see the internal combustion engine and space travel.

>>52821569
You're missing the fucking point that making a cannon isn't fucking hard to do at all and almost as soon as the chinese discovered blackpowder they were constructing cannons and long guns

Making shit go boom in the first place is the hard part, directing that force is easy as fuck.

The reason bows weren't rendered immediately obsolete was because refining simple designs like solid iron tubes into more efficient weapons is hard as fuck.
In the time it took to get off 2 shots with a long gun a archer with a longbow could get off 10-20 depending on their skill and stamina and until around the 1600s when full plate armor was basically perfected it didn't matter if you were shot with a bullet or an arrow.

>>52821695
>as soon as the chinese discovered blackpowder they

And as soon as your Gnome is an entire nation's worth of scholars researching this and having the resources to make it, then he can come up with a design safely without it blowing up in his hand.

You think the first chinese discovering Black Powder never, ever had a single gun they made explode? Especially the early prototypes?

>>52821695
Do you honestly think that random Chinese peasants could've designed hand cannons? Do you think a random peasant has a 10% chance of getting barrel thickness, projectile shape/size, powder charge, formulation of powder, all right and have a fully functioning weapon?

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>>52821498
>Implying the cast iron tube is strong enough to not blow up
>Implying there's such thing as explosives in a fantasy setting
>Implying one could just cast a really minor explosion inside an iron tube
>Implying there's such thing as lead, or any other element in a fantasy setting

>>52821839
Ok fuck it
you guys are all retarded
I'm done
/k/ out

>>52821870
>/k/

Mystery solved. /k/ can't comprehend a world where not everyone has a gun and knows how to build more.

>>52821726
>entire nation's worth of
It was a few chucklefucks over the years working on and off. The world isn't a grand strategy game; nations aren't monolithic.

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>>52821870
You see, the problem(the way I see it) wasn't the gun per se, it's called meta-gaming and any attempt of it, can and will be punished

>>52821839
>depends on the setting
Oh, fuck, no shit. Until stated otherwise, though, we can only assume the relevant parameters of the world match our own.

>>52821914
And you're getting butthurt that 1 guy hammering one out in a few days didn't get it right.

You're arguing that instead of those few scholars, it could have been anyone and they would have gotten it right after about 10 tries over the course of a month.

>>52821938
Purposefully punishing metagaming is metagaming.

>>52821980
The DM's entire job is metagaming.

>>52821972
Man, I just jumped into the thread. I'm just pointing out that not every scientific or technological advance has to be the result of a concerted national effort.

Still have to say that testing a device he'd only just constructed in the middle of battle wasn't very smart.

>>52821914
Technological innovation, like all types of innovation, are driven by people in the top percentiles of creativity and intelligence. Most people who tried to make a firearm gave up, but it was the best and brightest that actually got it to work.

Just because his player can metagame the mechanics of firearms, doesn't mean that an 18 will allow him to make one.

>>52821980
It's for a good cause

>>52822054
That's just not true. Maybe for scientific innovation, but technological innovation is, the vast majority of the time, an incremental process.

>>52822204
Meaning that there's even more steps needed to invent something, so a single 18 shouldn't be an automatic success

>>52822247
Which I do agree with. I just had to quibble on that one point.

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>>52821213
>comparing the knowledge, skills, and tools of gun enthusiasts to that of a person in a time when guns don't exist

>>52822204
When did I say it wasn't incremental? Every invention that's defined the modern world were tried for a long time until one or two super geniuses came and figured it out. The VAST majority of people trying to create the airplane failed, but all it took was one success for the technology to get off the ground (nopun)

Same goes for
>Vaccination
>telegraph
>Telephone
>Pasteurization
>Nitrogen Fixation
>mass production
>and many many more

>>52813201
I don't get people like you.
waaaahh you should of told them.
let them do it.
>if the person rolled a 25 I would have made it so the blue print was the equivent of a Leonardo Da Vinci blue print.
>it the person either knew smithing I would let him roll to make the parts if he rolled a 18 I would make it perfect
>since he looked for a blacksmith it really depends on the price he is paying and if the blacksmith is as good as he claims. I don't make up blacksmiths on the spot, each town I make has set amount of smiths who charge x and Y prices and are X and Y skilled at armor or weapons.
if he found a good blacksmith (which he did, that wasn't the problem it as the blue print) I would have instantly made the parts correct
>the last part is putting it together which is the easiest considering it's just a massive inpractical gun

*which HAD been invented in my world... in the past 5 years and it was a shitty matchlock

I had a encounter where they would fight a guy with a matchlock that he stole from the inventer (who he also killed) they would get scared of his gun due to meta gaming and then it would take him 5 turns to reload it

>but to put it together would still be a DC 15.

fuck if he didn't bitch and just made a flat intellegence check to to figure out what was wrong he could figure out which aspect of creating it went wrong and then make another to revise the blueprint basicly starting again with a lower DC.

I would have made making a gun harder due to wood work also being needed and tinkering being harder. I told him at the begining that making a gun would be extreamly hard for him so I'm guessing he thought a hand cannon would somehow be easy peasy.

I was laughing to myself the second he thought the 18 was enough. I had plans for it to fuck up and the more high rolls he got the funnier it became, of course I didn't want to remind him to test it. thats his job besides he was so happy that I wanted him to learn the hard way

>>52824083
You sound like the biggest faggot imaginable.

>>52810361
> low fantasy
A cannon is incredibly simple. It's a closed tube, possibly with a handle, and a spot for ignition. Its simpler than a handgun or even a well made bow. For it to catastrophically fail like that, you would have to have an insanely strong combustible - way stronger than what was commonly available at the time. It's far more likely to fizzle.

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>>52824363
>lol games are meant for fun dude, realism just subtracts from it

you're one step away from sitting in a circle and jacking each other off if you play a EVERYONES A WINNER YOU'RE ALL SO FANTASTIC type of game.

this isn't focused on you but applies to everyone

if a faggot wants to make a gun and somehow thinks this will take him about a week because he is a gnome and a tinker (nothing to do with guns btw other than the trigger and hammer)
then he better be feeling lucky or willing to make a lot of rolls and wait a long time for it to work out.

>lol I rolled a 18 (1/10 chance) I’ve invented a thing used to destroy ships that I can fit on my arm.
fuck right off with that shit.

no your character ISN'T special.
no just because you are level 16 doesn't mean that creating a gun will be easy for you (just an example he was only level 6)
in my 11th century campaign the same guy wanted to make an inventor that time too and I flat out told him that it's the dark ages and that he shouldn't bother trying to invent anything.
Less than 300 hundred years later and he thinks he's in meet the Robinsons.

I have nothing against him I just want him to learn the reality of the world back then and for him to stop thinking that if he was sent back in time that he would change the world, let alone being BORN back then.

my focus as a DM I design a good world, fill it with interesting characters and important events and they can interact with it however they like and their interactions change the world. am I saying he CAN'T invent the gun or that I would be upset if he managed? fuck no if he stuck to it and the mad man actually done it I would chimped out with excitement.

the PC's make it fun, I give them the setting to make their own fun. my friends are smart people and enjoy my ball breaking method if you don't then your opinion is wrong.

>>52824639
>cannon has never been invented
>I WANNA MAKE A CANNON
>makes cannon in a week

wow.
hey why aren't we in fly cars yet?
a tinkerer just invented a arm cannon in a week.
I know what cannons are I could go back in time and totally invent one in a fucking week. I fixed a watch once.

I know what about chocolate and I'm a great cook, why don't I go back in time and just create chocolate too.

>>52824639
Oh, I'm not the OP. I wouldn't have broken a player character's arm or have it backfire or anything like that. That's a little silly to me. Rather, you're right: at an 18 (in whatever skill), it just wouldn't have worked.

>>52825056
>gnome (the smallest race) fires a poorly build cannon with his arm
>it's silly that it breaks

oh no now the gnome has to downgrade from a D8 to a D6 because he can't use both hands to fire his crossbow.
DM you're being unreasoable. he no way of knowing that this was a bad idea.

don't worry his arm will heal in around a month or two game time and a hell of a lot faster with magic
OBVIOUSLY

>>52812616
Examples of edgy behavior?
A fix that I always use when I find myself getting too grimdark while DMing is to lampshade it. Have the edgy NPC's/towns get made fun of by other NPCs and get partially negated by common sense results.

Ex: an edgy town guardsmen that spouts barely veiled threats on the party's life. Until he does it without knowing his captain is in hearing range and gets slapped upside the head. Party later learns that that specific guardsmen is a bit of laughing stock among the watch because his mouth writes checks he can't cash and often has to be bailed out when he spouts off on wrong person.

>pathfagger
>show up with our character sheets
>DM makes up a town and gives elaborate NPCs to tie into our character stories (which, this being a 3.PF game, none of us had bothered with)
>later in that very session they all get killed by a giant weasel
what was the point man

>>52809126
>player begs me to let him make a fucking lightsaber
>"sure it'll just be +1 and emit light, it'll cost X gold and Y time and you'll have to do favors for the blacksmith and dwarves for materials"
>by the time he gets all that shit done everyone else has better weapons than that
>he's in massive debt

>obvious bait thread
>96 replies later
Good job OP. Now tell me again about how 4chan doesn't encourage shitposting.

>>52826834
>do you even know what bait is?
>did you even read one post in this thread?

why is it that this thread is bad yet >>52801936
is fine?

>>52809126
>doing highlands outdoor dungeon
>party finds a chest hidden over a cliff face sealed behind a magic rune barrier
>they proceed to just cut the stone around it
>cliff was actually a rock golem
>whirlwind everywhere within a 150 foot radius area for 80+ damage
>make them take another 20d6 falling damage
>then begin to trample the survivors
>lone survivor used all his gadgets and gizmos and big spells to get the golem low
>"It death throes. 250 damage, no save."

>>52821213
A smith in medieval era would have had to make it as a damascus twist barrel.

You do this by twistong a long strip or metal around a solid metal tube, then hammer welding (getting it red hot and beating on it with a hammer till there are no seams left) the strip until you have a nice round tube. It is very easy to make some areas of the barrel thinner than others as well as cracks or seams inside the tube. It would have to be AT MINIMUM a masterwork quality barrel to not have a roll every time to see if it explodes.

Not only that did the player in question have masterwork or magical scales to weigh out the blasting powder?

Also if the DM didnt roll to see if it exploded hes a dick.

Guns dont belong in fantasy for the record.

>>52809126
>PCs cast magic on people in broad daylight to influence attitudes or whatever they want
>Townsfolk collectively kick their asses out and ban them from town, labeling them as enchanter witch sorcerers

>Later a player suddenly casts detect magic
>Untrusting NPC guide doesn't have any points in Spellcraft. He's unable to identify spells as they are cast.
>He runs off and calls the fuzz on the PCs
It's almost like somatic and vocal components matter and not everyone is cool with being mind controlled every time the run by a caster.

>>52818185
By that, do you mean that reality is highly suspect to you?

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>>52818185
>artillery barrage
>supposed to be less powerful than small arms fire

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>>52824711
Not even that anon, but you might even eclipse OP as the biggest faggot to post in this thread. Do you run games in person at a FLGS, or are you contained on a roll20 type website?

>>52818185
Are you having a laugh over there?

Sounds like this thread if full of faggots who whine when the players get strong enough to ruin their "masterfully planned story". If you don't want to players to have fun because it might mess up your shitty plot, maybe go write a book. It'll be just as shit but at least you weren't be wasting the time of people who trusted you enough to DM properlly

>>52827121
>Guns dont belong in fantasy for the record.
if you're a retard, sure.

>Faggot makes some stupid character build based around lighting damage, I think the entire idea is stupid.
>technically isn't breaking any rules however, so I'm forced to allow it.
>decide to fudge rolls so his character gets killed off, make everything be immune to lighting in hopes of him getting bored of the character
>my mistake being I don't focus on what he's picking up after battles
>Other players notice I'm trying to get rid of this shitty character, act like I'm at fault. I'm tired of this game and the dumb asses playing, so I "agree"

>next session, have lighting suddenly strike the boat the party is on, just to kill everybody and end the game. Blame it on lighting fag casting so many lighting based spells.
>That piece of shit had been collecting all the anti-lighting material I had been throwing at them during the adventure, was covered head in toe with it.
>No fucking way to get around it.
>Decide to just make the rest of the dumb shits mad at him and have his character be the only survivor.

He was a fucking cunt, needless to say.

>>52809126
You're bad, but still better than any DM I've ever had.

>>52827000
You mad man. Stealing this. I think my players are seasoned enough to run but who knows?

>>52831641
Didn't we get the opposite of this story just the other day?

>>52827000
What would be the reason for you doing this, anon? Did the players piss you off? How did they react? I feel there's so much more to this story.

>>52812339
>
Bow Damage: Surely its damage is defined by the system, with a listing in the book. If you're going to arbitrarily change combat mechanics, you should inform the player first.

Maybe the system didn't have stats for using a bow as an improvised melee weapon? 1 damage seems reasonable to me, depending on the type of bow it's unlikely to be particularly heavy, most of the weight is concentrated in the middle and (assuming it was strung) the string gets in the way if you try and swing it like a club. Daggers only do D4 damage and they're designed to hurt people you hit with them

>>52821498
>For fuck sake HANDCANNONS have since the 1100's
In China. There is no evidence for gunpowder weapons in Europe before 1300

>Full plate armor, which is a staple in all fantasy, wasn't a thing until the 1600's
What? That's not even true of maximillian style gothic plate, which was the peak of armour construction and was developed in the early 1500s. Complete suits of plate existed as erly as 1420. And by the 1600s plate was starting to decline battlefield usage

>>52809294
You should do it in the most autistic way possible, since that looks like your M.O.

>>52832162
Eh, my opinion is that 1 damage is a little bit low, considering that 1 damage is often the same as a punch, and I typically picture getting hit with a sturdy stick as damaging far more than an unarmed blow.

>>52818024
What system?

>>52831836
Yes, it's fresh pasta

>>52831333
I play with 6 real friends.
in a location.

>>52824711
Its the 1300s you dumb fuck, hand cannons wouldve been around for a while at that point.

>>52809126
Nice.

>>52809126
I called That DM for this, but only by one guy, and everyone else thought he was being a dumbass anyways.

>DMing a fantasy game.
>Slightly more modern than LotR, but not really by much. Big enough cities, but no transport faster than a horse-drawn carts.
>Party consists of a swordsman, a cleric, a bowman, and the Alchemist.
>Game starts and Guy suddenly starts buying up a bunch of random chemicals and shit. Okay, he's an alchemist, whatever, alchemy things.
>Decides he "accidentally" drops everything in such a way to create perfectly functional gunpowder. Then concludes this mystery powder he has never seen or even heard of before would be perfect for putting inside a specialized metal device to ignite and propel small metal objects as a weapon.
>This is all in the first 5 minutes of the game starting, and doesn't make any sort of roll or clear it with me beforehand.
>Tell him to make a few dice rolls because this is stupid.
>"But muh 18 INT, inventing gunpowder and guns should be common sense."
>Tries to elevate it into an autistic screaming match before I just let him have it, under the condition his first guns are shitty one-shot flintlocks, because I'm not letting him have the perfectly functional AK-47 he wanted to invent.
>We finally start the game and everyone has fun, except the Alchemist of course who's spending the entire time bitching his shitty flintlocks are shit.


cont.

>>52835973
No idea why you put up with that. I would have told him to stop metagaming immediately.

>>52835973
>It's about 5 sessions later and the group is in town after raiding a goblin camp that the alchemist contributed somewhat to. Mostly without his guns because he's still assblasted over not having anything better than flintlocks.
>trying to buy stuff to make more gunpowder and trying to convince a shop-owner he should just give him the stuff for dirt-cheap because he said so.
>Points his guns at the guy to intimidate him, then gets pissed because he's not shaking in terror from the alchemist waving a poorly put together bit of metal around.
>Shoots the guy in the face and is chased out by the city guards.
>Shoots his second shot at the guards, and gets pissed because it didn't tear through their armor like tin foil.
>After the party gets chased out of the city, they go to a smaller town to rest because the alchemist got them banned from the 2nd biggest city in the country.
>Everyone is a bit sick of his bitching at this point.
>En route to the biggest city(about 4 days hike away. Could have been shorter, but the nearest city with available transport just kicked them out), they get ambushed by a group of alchemists.
>All armed with 6-shot revolvers, hand-held bombs, and one guy in the back with a prototype sniper rifle.
>Tell the alchemist to hand over all his gunpowder and guns.
>They inform him THEY already worked out the secrets of the Fire Dust, and want to keep a monopoly on it.
>Everyone else basically ties him down and hands over all his shit because he's trying to pick a fight with them.
>They destroy his flintlocks, take his gunpowder with them, and tell them they will kill him if he says a word to anyone.
>He bitches about "muh gunpowder, how did anyone else invent it."
>I point out they have 20 INT, are higher level, and "hurr durr guns are common sense."

He eventually relaxed a little, rolled up something less stupid, and everyone had a good time. They even found time 10 levels later to go beat up the secret gun-alchemist overlords.

>>52836109
>>52835973
I would've kicked him out after he lolrandumb'd them out of the second biggest city in the country. That shit's stupid.

>>52836165
I don't like kicking people out, and he learned to stop being a metagaming dick.

On the plus side, it also gave them a plot hook about a group of gun-toting alchemists to fight later, so it didn't go that badly in the end. The Alchemist even stole a bunch of guns from them on the way out of blowing their base up with completely mundane bombs(made from taping 4 alchemist fires together and throwing it into their gunpowder storage).

>>52832420
Bows aren't sturdy though, they're bendy and twangy. It'd be like hitting someone with an empty plastic 2L bottle of Coke.

>>52835787
>it's the 1900's the internet woudve been around for a while at that point.

just stfu please. you're trying to catch me out by reaching that hard. it looks fucking pathetic.

>>52809126
First and third make sense, you do you.

Second is fucking nasty dude. Whether hand canons have been attempted with catastrophic results or not is part of your setting lore, and your player obviously had different expectations about setting & done.
But instead of correcting him, you punished him with violent IC consequences for not reading your mind. Not cool.
Also, hell, he's playing a mechanically inclined gnome, at least the guy should know about the catastrophic failures of previous hand cannon prototypes.
Just tell him the widely known or utterly obvious facts ("you can tell you're not the first gnome to create a hand cannon, although obviously if other attempts had succeeded you would have known..."), send him on a research journey, and make hand cannon creation into a quest that involves assembling scholars and experimenting. Bam, you've turned a dick move into plot hook.

>>52812213
Hey, who cares if the guy did something massively stupid. He's obviously not proud of it. That's what matters.

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>>52836589
I should add more.

the first gun to make it to europe was a matchlock, basicly the biggest piece of shit invented and a considerable down grade to the longbow or cross bow. what made it useful is they completel destroyed anything they hit, even doing more damage to they body than modern day bullets and they punched a massive hole though the back of the target much like a hollow point round.
but they only worked in formation, until rifling was invented matchlocks were NOT something you wanted at hand if someone was trying to kill you. you get one shot and if you miss it will take you 30 seconds to reload it, and thats if you were drilled and could perform each task perfectly. miss firing was very common, adding too much gunpowder and bloing you gun to pieces was very common.

in comparison a well trained crossbowman could reload a crossbow in 5 seconds if he was crazy good or 15 seconds if he was decent.

and one thing I should have made clear is it was an ARM cannon I can't blame anyone for thinking I meant a matchlock as they were called handcannons in their day. but what he wanted to build was like a ship cannon you slot onto your arm. yes that is a weird fantasy idea but again I would have allowed it if he rolled high enough at his level he wouldn't have been able to do it without bardic insperation or guidence though.

>>52815212
That's acceptable.

>>52818024
You could have telegraphed it in some way, but otherwise an artillery barrage hitting a checkpoint where everybody got killed sounds fair and shouldn't count as a trap.

>>52821980
This, if you don't want guns in your game you interrupt the players and say no. You don't let them believe they can, and you don't maim the PCs for trying.

>>52836756
decent opinon. I prefer people to figure out for them self what is realistic.
like if he kept pushing at what anyone who wants to invent something has to do, he would have gotten it. you can't expect it to be right on his first try. I try to put as little imput into it as I can. if a NPC was near by with knowledge of ceating anything they would have convinced him to just see what went wrong and try again but he was in battle.

the broken arm isn't much of a set back he didn't lose his harm.

he can have it healed, it wont fix it right away without the reguvination spell but it will sure as hell make it a hell of a lot faster. if he can't getting magically healed it's still only going to take a month or 2 to heal.

>>52827000
Isn't that a major screwjob? Why discourage player creativity and thinking outside the box with an asspull TPK?
I'm stealing the "cliff was a golem" idea though, it's good in itself.

>>52835973
This I can get behind. You seem like a good DM.

>>52831551
Mutual enjoyment of a game is definitely underrated around here.

>>52836921
Fair as well. As a player I'd be a bit discouraged from trying out new things, but as a GM I see the point of letting your players do whatever and having them roll with the punches. I might try that eventually.

>>52836808
The first hand-held European guns (maybe ca 1340) weren't matchlocks. They had no locks whatsoever, just had a touch-hole. The matchlock took about a century and a half to get invented.

The early hand-held guns were such pieces of shit that they quickly became extremely popular with city militias, and when the proper matchlock appears (arquebus at first, then musket) it's so awful that it manages to revolutionize warfare and become the by far most important infantry weapon until the flintlock appears, despite most military weapons being smoothbore until some way into the 19rth century.

>>52827121
>Guns dont belong in fantasy for the record.
Depends on the fantasy.
I really want some Wild West fantasy ( Native American kind, not elves and dwarves kind ) but guns for how cool they are, are very difficult to make feel good for gameplay.

How do you make guns cool in fantasy? In a gun-slinging age, what classes would there be?

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>>52837301
>be in city milita
>suddenly shit is going down
>pesents are revolting and not because they don't shower, they are actually rioting
>point gun at them
>they back away as they know what it can do
>lol it wasn't even loaded

in an alternate dimention

>they charge at me from 30 ft away
>I quickly take a paper cartrage of powder
>pour a tiny bit into a hole
>put a bullet into the barrel and poke it down
>grab a small piece of rope and connect it to the trigger
>fire
>oh shit I forgot to light the rope
>got to find a fire
>see a lamp outside a store
>ever so gently tap the rope against the fires and lightly blow to get the fire stoked
>reinsert it to the trigger
>fire
>oh turns out while I was doing that the were stabbing the shit out of me with sickles and pitchforks

you know a lot I'll give you that but you are purposly withhold information just to be right.

>>52837555
The thing with city militias armed with handgonnes and arquebuses is that they operated as a unit and the gunners would be protected by dudes with halbers and pikes and other suck pokey weapons while they reloaded.
Not to mention showing up to riots with their guns already loaded.

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>>52837555

>>52837467
>How do you make guns cool in fantasy? In a gun-slinging age, what classes would there be?
Honestly I'd probably just make it a classless system, but if you really want to have classes I'd just give everyone guns and base their classes on wild west movie archetypes, with class features primarily defining what they do outside of combat instead of making everything combat-based.

So for example you could have a party with a Sheriff, a Rustler, a Gambler, a Surgeon and a Native Scout. Combat-wise they can all use guns. Maybe one specs into rifles, one into revolvers, and one into shotguns, but that's not tied to your class. Class features would be shit like the Scout having good tracking and stealth skills, the Surgeon having medical skills, etc.

If you want to make it weird west you can easily add more mystical classes like Shaman, Padre, Witch, etc.

>>52837641
>>52837649
shit that makes a lot of sense desu.
the city milita didn't act like the police and it wasn't first on the scene I was thinking too modern. obviously they would turn up as a unit.

well I guess you win the argument.
but not to try and divert the argument but this doesn't really effect if my rulling was bad.
first it still wouldn't be good in a dnd battle where 1 round is 6 seconds, second he was trying to make it from scratch on his own with only knowledge of tinkering and third he tried to make an arm cannon not a hand cannon. even if he made it correctly trying to use something like that as a gnome is asking for trouble, maybe if he mounted it and made it correctly he could use it like a 14th centry version of a MMG. with kind of move forward, plant fire, move forward plant fire and also the fact that if you are strong you can lay on the ground and hold it down with your arm or if you're really stong kneel and lean on something.

>>52837652
Sounds pbta-ish

>>52837827
I think you did the right thing. If he didnt want that shit to blow he should have gotten it enchanted. At the same time you should have let him use it until he rolled a 5 or lower.

>>52837827
My opinion is that you failed as a DM, still.

Your'e supposed to act as the character's knowledge of the setting and of the situation. You didn't give your player a clue that this kind of invention would be difficult for a gnome to use, or to reload, or anything of ther sort. You failed to communicate, on purpose, just to fuck with your player. That's bad form. Fuck you.

>>52809126
>punching vs bow hitting
Bad
>faulty schematics
Bad
>Forcing deception instead of intimidation when the player is trying to deceive, and then having characters react appropriately.
That's actually great dming. Your player is retarded to complain there.

>>52827176
I thought this was for That DM's. This is pretty reasonable

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>>52837944
you're right, how could the player know that firing a cannon with your arm when you're 3'0 ft tall would be a bad idea.

punishing him with a broken arm is also unnacceptable, now he'll have to use a hand crossbow for a while. fucking hell DM have mercy.

also I should have told him his idea was bad and that his character is smarter than that. surely a ranger would know better.

look I tell characters whether their character would know better IF they ask. sometimes I will even make them roll.

I hate it when I'm playing under a different DM and he tries to tell me what my character does or doesn't know.

example
>locked chest
okay I smash it open with my great axe
>your character wouldn't do that he would suspect that it may be trapped or cursed
fuck off I smash it with my axe
>I tried to warn you
>a ghost rushes from the box and attacks you
>take 4d6 necrotic and initiative

don't be a fucking pussy don't put shit in your game if you don't want them to be activated.
the world is dangerious and travelling even more so.
stop babying your players because you're scared that they will get upset when their made up characters get hurt.

occational complaining is natrual and it doesn't mean that you ruined the game for them. treat your players like adults.

>>52838422
There's a difference between what you did and the example you gave. You purposefully hid the fact that the gnome's invention would be a failure, to punish them. That's not treating them like an adult, that's being an asshole.

>>52839737
how would he know it wouldn't work without testing it?

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>>52811498
100ft penis wip

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>I never ever keep track of Big Encounter health, I just make it die when it's dramatic
>I've put characters I dont like in unwinnable situations just to kill them off
>frequently roll dice in secret for show, dont even look at the result
>players dont even realize they're in my railroad

I'm the Telltale Games of GMs.

>>52811498
> 50ft goblin demon with a flaming 100ft penis whip
Fuck man, I can see a giant horned goblin squatting with it's hands behind it's head doing some Gurren Lagan spiral shit with it's dick.

>>52810539

Xbows were sort of designed to be cocked for extended periods of time. It's one of the reasons (resistance to moisture, ease of use) that they were so successful

>>52812302
The most complicated thing about hand cannons is the powder. Mechanically they can't be simpler...They're a tube with one big hole for the bullet and one small one for the wick.

>>52810070
Well aren't there those ritual bamboo cannons some chinese firework makers create as their coming of age test? They might not shoot a projectile but burn for a relatively long time I don't think anyone would want a massive shower of spark in their face.

Sure it has issues, like being single use and you'd have to carry a large pipe filled with explosives around but surely that isn't more dangerous than any other gun powder weapon.

>>52838422
You're a shit GM and I hope your players find a better one. I also hope you get the fuck off of /tg/ because it has enough foreverDMs that think that point of the game is to fuck over players.

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>>52845031
I get it
I'm sorry for making you uncomfortable

You play DnD to feel special.
your character accomplishments are YOUR accomplishments.

I see how killing an arch mage could feel rewarding even though your DM went easy on you by not stopping time and blasting your party with cone of cold twice.

I just think that DnD sould play with a single line of reasoning chosen by the DM and there shouldn't be exceptions just because it will hurt or kill the players.
no one has died in my game yet because I fuck them over when they do stupid things so they learn when it's importent not to do them.

much better then the two alternitive methods of allowing your players to win and toning things down when it looks bad for them or treating them like a baby until X level the releasing the demi god antagonist who fucks them up.

yes I'm a realism fag and in real life you'd break your fucking arm doing what he done.

I'm tired of talking to circle jerk fags that only play DnD because their DM sucks their dick.

heres a cute girl

oh and we smoke weed when we play too LOL.

>>52811721
There is also a big difference between a bow and a cannon. There are two points that any rational person can take from the OP.
1) Crafting items that give an unfair advantage should be unfairly difficult.
2) Trying to craft items that don't exist in the world (inventing things) is metagaming and, therefore, shit.

Y'all powergaming cunts need to settle down.

>>52809126
>>the force of the blast breaks his arm and it doesn't even fire
>>take 1d12 damage
Should have gone berserk on that GM guy.

>>52821980
> Player logic
This thread is for grown ups, kiddo

>>52845438
Sorry, you're not talking to some whiny bitch player like you think you are. I'm telling you, as another DM, you're shit at it. Also realismfags who play D&D are retarded, and their opinions mean fucking nothing, sorry to say.

Again, get the fuck off of /tg/, I'm sure reddit has a subreddit for the DM dicksucking you seem to want

>>52832274
>In China. There is no evidence for gunpowder weapons in Europe before 1300

>
What? That's not even true of maximillian style gothic plate, which was the peak of armour construction and was developed in the early 1500s. Complete suits of plate existed as erly as 1420. And by the 1600s plate was starting to decline battlefield usage

So what you're saying is that even if you quibble over specifics Handcannons are every bit as justified as plate armor.

You can't whine about balance if you allow unreasonably heavy defense but not a corresponding offense.

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>>52845779
okay I like your responce so I'll give you one more cute girl

>he thinks that it isn't way more pathetic the other way around

>wow you're so good DM, it was really cool when we were fighting the balor and were about to die and then I got the idea to cast the light cantrip and then it to 6 gorillian radiant damage and died.

>>52838422

Who in the seven layers of fuckery would assume that there's a ghost in a random chest? Was he sealed there ten thousand years ago? Was that his house and he's attacking you as a burglar? Is it a portal to limbo you just opened?

>>52809126
>Dm for a party of 5 guys
>next session, only two came
>Next session, the same two came
>DM for another party of 5 in the same universe some time later
>Want to tie old group next
>From the old two, call them and only one returned
>Play for 6
>Then play 5 (Old player still in)
>Then play for 4 (lost Old player)
>Introduce Another guy (Played a thief npc but then took it for himself next session)
>Then play for 3 (Another guy still in)
>Then play for 4 (Another guy and Old player in)
>Then play for 1 (Another guy) and give him a good setup and stuff to do
>There was never another session


Is there a name for the opposite of Forever DM?

>>52845873
That girl doesn't have gundams in the back so I don't care. Also, not as cute as the last one. Poor showing, I believe this means I win this round.

>>52836514
Having used bows often in my youth, I am in a position to agree. Bow as a melee weapon is not only ineffective but it also risks damage to the bow. Thise things are delicate.

>>52845943
A bow might get damaged from bashing someone's skull in, sure, but it'll get the job done first.

You can't be a realismfag about handcannons and make bows deal 1 damage when used in melee. At that point you're just being a shit DM.

I think the obsession with making firearms inside a fantasy game is a burgerland specific problem.
With my group we just naturally assume that firearms and gunpowder are obsolete and inferior in a world where magic is commonplace and anyone willing to study, read a scroll or just dip a level into a caster class can just shoot fireballs.
Gunpowder is usually a thing in our games, like cannons or rock quarries use it but no character or nps would attempt to use it outside of light bombmaking/setting up traps or a plot device.

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>>52845939
she's aged like shit too unfortunately
how can whitey compete with glorious nippon.

>>52821364
Yo, why you gotta be reasoned with your arguments and shit?

>>52846075
>a bow could bash someones head in

No, it literally couldnt., youd be better off removing the string and trying to stab with it (also ineffective)

>>52846359
I think guns in fantasy settings is a yuropoor specific problem, the poor faggots are denied the opportunity to enjoy firearms so they try to compensate via roleplaying.

>>52824711
>rolling an 18 is a 1/10 chance
haha look at this idiot
18-20 is three outcomes! Three out of 20!

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>>52809126
You did nothing wrong

You're my hero

>>52826800
But he has a fucking cool sword bro

>>52826834
This is the modern version of tg doesn't give a shit. We just talk forever because we have nothing better to do.

>>52846359
>>52848735

I think denying gunpowder has any place in fantasy is a pleb specific problem. It comes from people raised on Dee'n'Dee and shitty fantasy movies who can't let go of their preconceptions. Essentially, this is the kind of person who complains about gunpowder weapons and concocts irrelevant, unsustainable reasons as to why they don't 'work' in fantasy, while simultaneously not blinking an eyelid at comparable everyday things like bows and crossbows, let alone bullshit stuff like bolas, chakrams or throwing stars.

That is really what being a pleb boils down to: being wrong (whether it be taste, fact or attitude) and also lacking the objectivity to correct for it.

>>52845031

Actually I'm more sick of people like you who pander to every stupid idea that players have and think that giving negative consequences to anything makes you "LE EPIC BAD DEE EM XDDDDD"

>Player: I try to shave my beard with this Cursed Dagger of Disintegration
>You as DM: Uh, uh, uh, w-w-well the blade luckily glances off a passing bit of shrapnel so you survive!

KYS.

>>52845903
Either you are a REALLY bad GM or you're trying to GM for people who don't enjoy your style of game (or pen and paper in general).
Starting out with that many players may have been a mistake. Smaller groups tend to have more fun in the early days of your campaign and introducing new characters can feel like a blast because they add a new perspective and dynamic to the group.

>>52809126
You didn't proof read your post very well. Speaks to your poor DM skills.

>>52848881
Players are allowed to die to their own stupidity while DM withholding obvious information is just lame.

In OPs case the cannon should have been testfired as a part of the building process and there are several reasons why that would happen. Cannons obviously exist in the universe and are somewhat common or OP should never have allowed one to be built, the character in question must have had access to this prior knowledge as well as at least some of the risks involved. Every arsenal has a firing range and no firearm ever leaves the factory without being tested.

So by making the cannon explode without any prior warning OP forced the character to act like a complete fucking idiot who despite all the information availlable walked around with a potential pipe bomb strapped to his arm.

>>52809126
>and proud
kill yourself anon

>>52809126
All of that was perfectly reasonable. If a player doesn't test their invention, that's a failure on them. And if he wanted to intimidate those elves, he should've said something intimidating, not deceptive.

>>52845615
A cannon is much simpler than a bow.

>>52849687
>A cannon is much simpler than a bow.
...which is why they've been used throughout the history.

>>52848881
>not needlessly being a dick to your players means you let them do retarded shit

Naw, try again moron. Sorry it's no longer the age of "DM is trying to beat the players" though. I'm sure you'll get over it.

>>52837467
Just play Deadlands you great big dingus.

>>52849815
Because gunpowder had not been invented throughout most of history.

The moment you have the knowledge of gunpowder and have the ability to smelt metals it's all easy.
At most a little costly.

A cannon is nothing more than a pipe with one end closed.

A strong bow requires advanced knowledge of materials.

>>52848881
>denying gunpowder is stupid
Wow way to move the goalposts you fucking idiot, we were talking about guns in fantasy, work on your reading comprehension kid.

There are plenty of reasons to not want guns in the fantasy setting:

Guns desroyed the application of armor in battle. Its been 300 years since guns became a mainstay in combat and all we have to show for it are some ceramic plates thay shatter in one shot, or some woven vests packed with the equivalent of sand.

Guns ruined combat. Instead of guys with sword and axes waylaying into each other to guys squatting in trenches and peaking around corners.

Guns ruined FUCKING CASTLES, all it takes is one fuckhuge gun and any fortification is now useless

I could go on you fucking cumsock but i wont.

You are a moron, everything you say and believe is wrong.

Kys

>>52849970
Your ignorance is glaring.

>>52849970
>The moment you have the knowledge of gunpowder and have the ability to smelt metals
Yeah, skipping the first two complicated as fuck steps does indeed make it very simple.

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>half of party gets teleported to pocket dimension because they opened a box every NPC who knew of the box told them not to open
>demon in the box tells them they can only get out if they answer his 3 riddles correctly
>on the last riddle they decide to answer individually
>one hastily settles for his answer and promptly vanishes
>the other takes his time and figures out the riddle
>guy who answered correctly appears out of the box again
>other guy got his soul trapped and bound forever in the box

>>52842940
Good tube making is also pretty important, and not as easy as you might think. Early hand-held gunpowder weapons tended to be short barrelled, mounted on long sticks, and with wider bores than they needed to minimise the risk that an unexpected weak spot or a kink in the barrel would present.

That's also why mediaeval crossbows have a shorter draw length than modern ones; the steel used for the prods wasn't homogenous enough so to reduce the likelihood of it snapping and injuring the wielder, they reduced the amount of strain placed on it

>>52818118
>Lift bag
>Hook in ground attached to bag pulls something loose
>Suddenly, all of the elves are trapped in a net/eviscerated/killed

Oops.

>>52826800
Brilliant Energy weapons are literally right there in the book, man. They're +4 enhancements so they're extremely expensive but still.

>>52831641
>hating lightning characters
But that's awesome. A lot better than ice or fire mages, that's for sure.

More spell-efficient, too, if it's 3.5- with Call Lightning and the like.

>>52850654
That's not That GM at all. You warned them, multiple times, they had more than enough chances to consider their actions, and the demon could've just laughed and laughed and laughed, instead of giving them a way out.

>>52849970
>A strong bow requires advanced knowledge of materials.
A composite bow, maybe (although even then it requires no greater knowledge than which materials are stretchy and which are squashy).
Self bows have been around for millenia and don't require any more knowledge than "use a wood that has two different colours because those are good for bows"

Compare with guns:
You need to know the ingredients of gunpowder, in the right ratios, and how fine to grind the powder. You need to know how to smelt iron, then work it into a strong tube that won't split or burst when you put your explosive powder in it

>>52851228
Everyone began giving off awkward vibes afterwards and the guy whose character lost became very quiet for the last 20 minutes of the session.
They're just too used to being coddled and I wasn't too strict?

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>>52851109
Not to mention that gunpowder was not of consistent quality, gathered moisture like a bitch and the powder makers guarded their mixtures jealously.

I don't get why people are so against hand cannons or other early gunpowder weapons. The amount of setup required and the esoteric assholes you have to deal makes them vancian spells for ordinary man. Gun powder and ammo are reagents and cannon is the spell book and different shots and blasting charges are the spells.

>>52851268
oh look exactly what I said makes so many DM's shit happened. if you warned them and they don't it's because they learned to expect that nothing bad will happen. it's your fault but the two players sound like massive faggots.
>>52845438

can this shitty thread fucking die already. you're all super special awesome DMs who sure showed your players that they better not try to have fun or DARE think about doing anything other than what you want to do them, you're all so very handsome and cool and very smart for thinking up clever ways of killing all your players. We good now?

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>>52851497
But the girl in the party doesn't get the hint no matter how many times her character is raped to death.

>>52851516
well did you try raping any of the ghosts?

>>52851532
No but I tried to creepily massage the person directly.

>>52851542
shit, shit. yeah see you rape the ghost first THEN you do the creepy massage. Rookie mistake anon, rookie mistake,

>>52851564
I wish someone wrote the steps down online. Trying to figure it out on your own is so tedious.

>>52851577
I understand anon, but consider the satisfaction you get when you do it right? Well worth it.

>>52851587
Is it as good as lego or torturing small animals?

>>52811498

On reflection, this plan is kinda awesome and a 100ft penis is excellent.

You're a cinematic Dm bro.

>>52851606
above small animals, slightly below lego/

>>52809126
((DM)) Did nothing wrong! I hate it when people rollplay as if its a MMORPG...