/5eg/ D&D Fifth Edition General

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Not even a discussion topic, c'mon, OP.

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>>52785017
Why does that dragon look so smug.
I didn't even know I hated smug dragons until now.

Fuck you, smug dragon.You ain't shit.

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>>52785017
What is the biggest enemy you or your party has ever fought?

>>52785091
They almost fought a hill giant one time, but then they ran away.

Is the only "real" shop is CoS Bildrath's Mercentile? My players recently completed The Death House and they are looking to restock on resources. I don't want them to have a magic weapon supermart but with these few stores/farmers how is anyone alive in the towns? Not everyone is gonna go to the tavern/inn to get food. Where do the guards get their weapons? It can't be JUST from dead adventurers.

I planned on having the Vistani be a longer, less reliable way to get more exotic items but what if they want to get a sling, flour, random shit? It seems odd to have so much loot yet nothing to use it on... its not like I expect for them to make a keep in Barovia and that a lack of resources is one of the difficult things that one has to deal with, but how could you open up the player's options without necessarily releasing any of the difficulty?

>>52785103
Bildrath buys his shit from the Vistani, so you're being pretty reasonable there.

>>52785091
I don't even know what it was, DM likes to make up monsters for some reason.
It was like a Purple Worm, only not purple and it had mouths all over it.
My Fist Wizard died to it.
okay actually just Human Abjuration Wizard with 20 Strength and Tavern Brawler

>>52785091
We ran away from a neothelid once. There were escape mechanics involved, we weren't meant to fight it.

>>52785127
>for some reason
Keeps players on their toes

>>52785103
>I don't want them to have a magic weapon supermart
As someone who has been playing CoS for the last monthish, I feel like it absolutely should be dripping in magic weapons. We're running with a primarily martial party and nearly everything we've encountered has had resistance. On top of that they usually have regeneration. And they can drop our toughest tanks in two or three hits.

It's not even a war of attrition because the regen often outpaces the damage we're capable of dealing. And unless we pour all our resources into some first round nova (preferably with surprise), one or two members of our party inevitably become focused on shoring up the rest of the party with healing, leaving even fewer people to dole out damage.

Your party makeup might be more suited to the campaign, but as a group that didn't really know what we were in for, the balance seems pretty fucked up for the levels we seem to be encountering things at. Throwing a few magic weapons at your party early would seem to be extremely reasonable unless their all dishing out magical attacks already.

Joined a new group, when I asked about the party so far I got this back;

>As far as play style, the fighter is a Goliath Eldritch Knight, pretty much a front line fighter. The cleric is a trickster priest with very low strength so mainly relies on spells and tries to stay out of close quarter fighting, but isn't exactly a powerhouse ranged attacker either. The rogue is a thief archetype. He is almost always in the front lines. Currently he's in the process of being turned into a Kuo-Toa diety.

Any suggestions on a class to fit in here? I was thinking a moon druid could be alright, but I really wanted to play a kobold druid and the dm isn't into monster races. Avoiding full casters if possible because there's a girl joining who I know plays pretty much only rangers and wizards

>>52785206
Be a Ritual Tome GOOlock

How MAD is Cleric / Warlock?

>>52785250
>two separate spell casting stats
very

>>52785017


Brewing Potions of Healing Potions of healing
fall into a special category for item crafting,
separate from other magic items.
A character proficient with the herbalism kit
can create them. The time and money needed
to create such a potion is summarized on the
Potion of Healing Creation table.

Potion of Healing table:

Potion of Healing = 1 day and 25gp
Greater healing = 1 workweek 100gp
Superior healing = 3 workweeks 1,000 gp
Supreme healing = 4 workweeks 10,000gp.

Sadly there's no table on gathering herbs so it's assumed you have to buy them.

Why do half elves make such good bards?

>>52785307
Any DM who doesn't suck will set a DC for herb gathering during down time. Say everyone else is having their short rest and instead of relaxing you make a Survival check, sacrificing the ability to rest for gathering herbs if you match the DC decided by the DM. Or you can spend 25gp at an apothecary.

>>52785091
A Minotaur Skeleton... They're starting out...

>>52785218
PHB only

>>52785091
White Dragon wyrmling. This campaign hasn't been going on very long

>>52785363
That is PHB only

>>52785326
+2 Charisma, more skills to skill monkey with. Half elves make a pretty good anything, especially anything that uses charisma as it's casting stat.

>>52785091
The largest was an oni, the most dangerous was a vampire spawn with a magic weapon.

>>52785363
That is PHB.
Great Old One Patron Warlock.
Pact of the Tome, take Druid cantrips, grab Shillelagh, use a Quarterstaff and get Polearm Mastery.
You get 2 d8 melee attacks a round using your Charisma.
If you want you can be flavourful to the Druid cantrips and take Archfey patron for a nature theme.

>>52785397
>>52785369
Oh, sorry. I'm not too up to date with all the terminology people uses, I assumed it was UA stuff. I've never read Warlock into detail, I'll check it out. Thank you.

>>52785192
I'm not worried about that actually since I predicted a similar problem. I gave a paladin a really powerful sword that has his son's Soul and one of the Rangers has a silvered shortsword so at least for now they have a fair chance, to deal with their threats on that level as well as having a cleric that has taken a lot of anti-undead spells.

The dungeons have a nice spread of magic on them and I like how you earn them. Depending on the pace I might even make some catacombs and creepy stuff on top. They don't seem too concerned on taking out Strahd as they were thoroughly been shown that he's above them.

>>52785421
after you hit 3rd level and get Shillelagh as a Warlock cantrip you can multiclass into Paladin and start grabbing smite spells to add to your Charisma melee weapon if you want.

>>52785444
How many levels would you suggest going into each? This campaign is meant to reach level 20.

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We've just finished LMoP and moved onto our home campaign.

We own Tresender Manor and have rebuilt it. I play a Dragonborn Artificer who specializes in the more engineering aspect of Artificing, cogs, wheels, pipes, engines, etc.

I've rescued Droop from the initial campaign and have made him somewhat of my apprentice. I'm also teaching him to be an Artificer, so he can work on the House when I am gone. Long term, I want to design a method of making the house float and my DM is aware of this and has pretty much said that if I can design the architecture, stability and rough draft of how I can provide liftoff, I can do it (Supplies, time, costs, etc. Are all accounted for of course. I'll have to provide that as well.). (I'm currently level 7.)

However, I've hit somewhat of a wall with my group. My ideal is to train, re-educate and use other goblins that show potential to help with the construction of said levitation and flight. However, my party has this unabashed hatred for anything we've potentially killed, even going as far as to sabotage or threaten situations in the past out of their "racism".

How would you feel or respond to someone doing a similiar thing in your group? I currently have a Gnome (the NPC who taught me Artificing) and Droop aiding me in my delving of Artificer knowledge. As a note, I am the only neutral one in the party. Everyone else is all around the board.

My Group consists of a Warlock (Old God), Fighter, Ranger, Wizard (Evocation) and a Barbarian.

How do you make an Artificer-style class that can make magic items, and balance their output?

>>52785538
Up to you, the Paladin bit was just a suggestion for extra spell slots and some smite power, the Warlock could go to level 20 on it's own and be fine.
If you want to go the Nature Palalock route, go Warlock 3/Paladin 17 and take Oath of the Ancients (Fey Knights).
If you want a roleplaying aspect you could be worshipping your Archefey patron to link the classes.
Best Invocations for this would be Fiendish Vigor for melee combat and Book of Ancient Secrets so you can write rituals into your tome, like Find Familiar, Identify, etc, but if you don't think you'll need the rituals you could always grab Armor of Shadows so you don't need armor, Devil's Sight for darkvision if your race doesn't have it, or Eldritch Sight for an at will detect magic. Make sure you're certain though, you won't be able to change them after 3rd level if you multiclass.

>>52785091
In 5E, an ancient blue dragon. We ran.
Then we caught her in human form, realized who it was after bringing her into Silverymoon, and escaped with the guy she was hunting for through a Harper teleportation circle to Waterdeep to warn the OTHER guy she was hunting for. So she flew all the way over there, but we had plenty of time to snag Guy #2 and teleport back to Silverymoon after she'd left. But then she just took over Waterdeep because I guess a city full of adventurers who fight Underdark shit all day are no match for a single dragon with the power of an Old God so I'm kind of wondering how our level 8 asses are gonna deal with that.

The biggest thing we've killed has been a cloud giant. Or maybe a robot with a gatling gun. Physically, the largest creature was the hill giant queen, but only because she was a fat-ass.

>>52785593
Hm, I suppose I should rephrase:

Have you ever had a party member set a long term goal with NPCs?

How have you reacted? Did you like it, dislike it? Why?

Have you ever worked with NPC's to achieve a goal that your Group/Party couldn't complete? Why?

>>52785127
If you want a melee abjurationish wizard, the only way is to take a one or two level dip of warlock for armor of agathys and armor of shadows fuckery.

>>52785593
>teaching goblins animatronics and flight
Yeah, I can't see where this could go wrong at all, your party is totally overreacting.

>>52785593
You'd do much, much better trying to hire mages and engineers who have actually studied this shit for years and then try to teach them to do these things.

You know, logically speaking.

What you're doing is like trying to design a fighter jet except instead of recruiting the usual engineers you're recruiting teenagers who say 'Fuck da police!'

>>52785657
>Have you ever had a party member set a long term goal with NPCs?

Yes recently one of my PCs bought a tavern for retirement sometime in the future since he nearly died, and is old. Set it up to have an NPC run it and try to make it profitable

>How have you reacted? Did you like it, dislike it? Why?

I thought it was a neat idea because I only mentioned it had come up for sale in passing. Previous owner got killed for betraying the party and the NPC they were working with is part of the underworld in the city.

>Have you ever worked with NPC's to achieve a goal that your Group/Party couldn't complete? Why?

This is the first one and he went about it a smart way of getting a loan from someone powerful and sweetening the deal so she'd front the money.

>>52785679
I was roleplaying a Lawful Good honor obsessed melee wizard, all his spells were melee, movement, or self protection.
Honestly I was expecting the character to die and I made the decision to kill him to save the party for roleplaying.
Turns out it ended up being so cool the NPC's who witnessed it told tales in the next town of a brave flying man leaping into the maw of the beast and exploding out with an explosion of acid.

>>52785593
Back when we run LMoP, we also saved Droop and my dragonborn paladin took him under his wing. We were training him in martial training and he outright saved or asses quite a few times. In the end my character a Droop part ways with the rest of the group and started to wander around the land trying to make a name for the most valiant and brave little goblin we became.

>>52785593
One of the parties I DM for also "adopted" Droop. They use him as a pack mule and executioner. He's going to become a GOOlock.

>>52785690
>Day 593 of the goblin occupation
>Finally got some info on how they mastered flight and built those suits
>Some dumbass used them to help make his house fly
>Explains why they use it as a central base
>I wish we could go back in time and throttle that idiot

>>52785761
Our party keeps him scared to death and living in a bag (toolbox) of holding with an air straw. His only glimpses of light are when the box is opened so the Artificer can throw scrapmetal inside which rains down on his head, or when the intense-looking Awakened Mystic pulls him out to brainfuck him for info.

His situation has only marginally improved since being in that cave.

>>52785787
Not the original guy, but I also like the engineer/artificer side of mtg goblins. It's fine, it will be fine, nothing could go wrong.

>>52785017
I feel like too much of 5e is level gated. There's lots of interesting stuff that you don't unlock until you hit levels 10 and up, or even longer if you've decided to multiclass. This is around when most of our campaigns are winding down.

I feel like they should have made more of an attempt to scale a larger variety of abilities that are available early on rather than locking them behind high levels and the rare feat.

I'd like to get into d&d, but can't get my hands on the Player's Handbook. What do you think about d&d board games? These are easily accessible where I live. Should I give it a try, is it even worth buying?

QUESTION

In a musty little alcove of my FLGS, I found a copy of Council of Wyrms. I started playing with 3rd edition, so when I flipped through the thing I was pretty surprised: D&D-based rules for playing a setting where all the PCs are actual, full-grown dragons (and also various half-dragon options).

Anyone here ever played a Council of Wyrms game? Can you tell me about it?

>>52785922
PHB is in the trove..?

>>52785103
>Is the only "real" shop is CoS Bildrath's Mercentile? My players recently completed The Death House and they are looking to restock on resources
There's another shop in Vallaki, Arasek Stockyard

>>52785937
Nope.

Uh... What do female goblins look like?

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>>52785988

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>>52785988

>>52786003
>>52786017
Hmm I remain unimpressed.

>>52785091
In our Storm King's Thunder campaign, we flew our stolen cloud castle into an ancient blue dragon's lair and fought her and her retinue of gargoyles and stone golems during a thunderstorm. Then, halfway through, a fire giant lord we'd previously pissed off showed up in an ancient dragon-killing mecha that fired death lasers. It was a fun time.

Thinking about making a homebrew Barbarian archetype based around taking some of the abilities from monsters you slay and using them similar to battlemaster maneuvers. Basically a Final Fantasy Blue Mage. Has anyone worked on/seen a build like this before? Advice or pitfalls?

>>52785928
It probably wouldn't be hard to play a campaign like that in 5e, the only real problem would be high powered options for monsters are sorely lacking, due to the low power curve of 5e generally.

>>52785974
https://mega.nz/#F!oHwklCYb!dg1-Wu9941X8XuBVJ_JgIQ!kH4yAZ6L

How do you make resource management fun?
I want to run a game in which adventuring supplies like food and water would be important along with checking for and curing diseases. How do I make this engaging for the players?

>>52786088
>How do you make resource management fun?
You can't.

>decide to make players automatically gain the benefits of a skill feat for every skill they're proficient in
How much does this devastate the game?

>>52786111
Sidenote: Remove the stat bonus and double proficiency part, as it becomes redundant and kind of ridiculous.

>>52786109
But how do you properly run a campaign with survival in hostile and diseased lands in mind?
Think of a dnd fantasy world hit by a black plague that brings the dead back to life.
Is this just an idea I should let go?

>>52786111
Just the extra abilities or are you including the expertise bonus?

>>52786088
Well the first step would be to ban clerics, druids, and the Magic Initiate feat, as all three of them will allow the party to ignore food and water. Actually you should probably just ban any class with access to spells.

In reality, it takes a special sort of group to enjoy that sort of gameplay. I'm not saying it's badwrongfun, just that it is very particular fun, not suited for most people.

>>52786111
Some of them are broken IIRC, but most are just things that should be allowed if you're proficient.

>>52785787
>>52785879

Original guy here. I actually like the aspect of MTG goblins and shit just sparking or fizzing yet barely being held together. It's why I'm trying to do it.

And yes... I don't mind an inevitable goblin occupation of the sword coast.

>>52786127
Make resource management into a quest. Not something that they just tick off on a sheet.

>>52786088
>>52786109
Turn it into a tetris game for item storage. RE4's attache case seemed pretty popular.
Houserule some benefit to keeping well-fed and watered to encourage eating and drinking, maybe even have a well-cooked meal provide extra benefits.

>>52786047
BIG VONINDOD, SHOWTIME!

>>52785538
>>52785640

Paladin + Warlock takes either 6, 7 or 11 levels of Paladin first, and the rest goes into Warlock.

6 for CHA to saves. This is the most important.
7 if Oath of the Ancients, because of the Resistance to Magic ability.
11 for Improved Divine Smite. This is optional and only really worthwhile for Vengeance Paladins who want to go to 9th anyway to grab Haste, or (if UA is allowed) to Undying Light locks. This, however, locks out CHA to damage for level 20 builds, as that's a Blade Pact Warlock 12 invocation.

Best PHB pacts are Fiend and Fey, the former more combat oriented and quite nice at adding sustainability with its tempHP on kills, and the latter thematically appropriate for Oath of Ancients paladins. GOO doesn't synergize with anything.

The main things Paladin gets out of Warlock are short rest spell slots for Divine Smite (smite damage caps at 4th level slots, which is Warlock 7, though Warlock 11 bumps the available slots from 2 to 3), a reliable and scaling ranged option through Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast invocation, and extra utility between invocations and cantrips. Also the Darkness+Devil's Sight combo.

As to how to build there are really just two ways to go:
- The Tomelock route mentioned there, where Charisma is the main stat. This gives better saves once Aura of Protection is unlocked, better Eldritch Blast attacks (keeping in mind this is a secondary combat option), avoids MAD (though you still need STR 13 to multiclass Paladins) and access to extra good cantrips like Guidance.
- The Bladelock route. Focuses on Strength with Charisma secondary as per a normal Paladin. Allows the use of Heavy Armor, no need to spend a bonus action activating Shillelagh so that can be put into delivering an extra attack or using Hex for extra damage, and broader weapon selection (though you're better off using a Shield+Quarterstaff anyway). Overall it's the less supportive, more aggressive option.

>>52786128
Just the extra abilities. Maybe the ability score bonus too for some of the weaker ones.

>>52785091
Biggest conventional battle we had was probably against a fallen Solar. Our DM is fond of 'biblical' angels, and so once we took it out in a more standard form it turned into some huge eldritch abomination made of fire as large as a mountain that turned the skies red just by existing.

Counting more non-standard battles, our campaign finale had about eight stages to it, and the penultimate one had our Big Bad usurp the position of the absent omnipotent Ao/Lady of Pain style being above the Gods. Luckily we had partial access to the same source of power he had, so his apotheosis turned us into partially divine beings too and we all fought across the universe itself, abstracted into Yggdrasil. At that point we were meant to be larger than planets, and all the numbers we were throwing out were magnified vastly.

Campaign took us two years to finish, going from one to 20 with epic boons, so the huge scope was pretty cool.

>>52786058
The closest thing I can think of is the totemist class from 3.5. It was actually a really cool concept, a savage tribesman who would wear a gorgon mask for that petrifaction power, or a girallon talisman for the monster's multiple arms.

You may just want to go dragon sorcerer and refluff things.

>>52786047
>tfw our group had a flying cloud giant tower and were going to the cloud giant castle to rescue the dragon, scout the place out, regroup, and come back with a small army to clear the whole thing and take it
>but while escaping in the tower a buncha dumbos in the party thought we couldn't possibly outrun the castle even though we gained like thousands of feet in distance by just cutting the engines and plummeting towards the surface before reengaging
>they jacked the orb and rammed the tower up through the castle and we had to abandon it after fighting just three giants and escaping with pretty much none of the loot except the conch
They all wanted a fight or some shit and I guess they figured that if we left on the tower there was no way we could ever go back to the castle, least of all that same session. Yeah, okay, you guys want a fight, but it's five of us vs. an entire castle of giants, any one of whom could solo any one of us.
This shit happens all the time. My party refuses to prep for combat, run when things go south, or regroup to gain an advantage. Everything must be attacked head-on unless the plan to tilt things in our favor can be executed in less than a minute, and all fights must be run to the death. Even relocating to more advantageous positions is a fucking struggle with them and the only way I can ever get them to go along is by running off myself and letting them face a round or two of the harsh reality that I'm the tank and their 16 AC, 40 HP asses are going to get mauled to death in a single turn.
>fighting a remorhaze and two babies
>there's a giant pair of double doors we can el toro one through and hold closed against the children while we deal with mama
>party wants to fight all of them at once, out in the open

>>52786127
Skill Challenges in unsafe zones.

Say the party is adventuring through Deathdor, the land of Painful Deaths. They need to get from the Unsettling Pass and home to the Uncomfortable City, the last safe port and entrance to Deathdor, to the Ominous Tower, the heart of Deathdor. You could play out their travel like this:

DM: Who is handling the provisioning?
Ranger: I will.
DM: Okay, how do you go about preparing for your journey?
Ranger: I'm going to ask some of the woodsy types in this city what's important, and then buy that.
DM: Lore about Deathdor is closely guarded, and not easily given to outsiders. Roll a persuasion check
Ranger: 24
DM: Nice. Asking around, and with some cajoling, you're able to get a few tips about deathdor, particularly, you learn which ingredients won't spoil when they're hit with the Slighly Unnatural Wind of Deathdor. Using their knowledge, you are able to set up more than adequate provisions for the journey. And so, if there is no pressing business left, the party sets off. The first day is hard, but the guide you hired earlier, Gornara, is competent, and brings you through it. He is pleasantly surprised when he looks over your provisions, and remarks that he was expecting to have to scavenge food for the outlander idiots. The second day of your trip is more difficult. About midday, by your reckoning, though it is hard to be sure with the Clouds of Evil constantly obscuring the sun, Gornara collapses suddenly
Cleric: I instantly run over to him and try to diagnose what's wrong. Is that medicine?
DM: Yes, that'll do.
Cleric: Shit, I rolled a 1, plus 7, that's an 8
DM: You have no clue what's wrong with him, and his condition is rapidly deteriorating. His fingers are turning black
Cleric: okay, I'm going to try to stabilize him with a healing spell
Rogue: While he's doing that DM, I'd like to search Gornara to see if he had anything of value on him
DM: Okay cleric, what spell? Rogue, investigate (cont)

>>52786159
Can someone explain this Quaterstaff + shield thing to me?

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>DM running a module
>we didn't read the module before hand to keep it fun
>don't remember the name
>remember Fochlucan Lyrist prestige class based on classic Bard
>decide to build a nature Bard, use variant Human for Magic Initiate feat, grab some druid spells
>DM adds first level feats, grab medium armor proficiency feat
>hide armor, spear, shield, rapier
>super MAD, not overly powerful, decent utility though
>name character Naoise Wodan since I'm basically an Odin archetype
>planning on college of lore for more druid spells and Find Familiar for a Raven
>first cave we enter chasing goblins, pair of wolves chained up
>can't stop grinning
>party preparing for combat
>roll Animal Handling and give them ration packs
>19 + proficiency and decent wisdom
>DM allows me to tame the wolves
>they become the front line damagers of the party with me buffing them and fighting alongside them
>party fighter jokes about killing them
>remind him that I'm the main party healer despite the other two both being druids
>mfw the bard has two animal companions while the druids don't
I didn't plan for this but I'm happy with how it turned out.

>>52786330
>DM running a module
well gosh i should hope so

>>52786358
We usually run campaigns based on the DM coming up with his own story or world.
This was a newer DM and not the usual one, so he wanted to do a module. I'm glad he did, two pet wolves is insane.

>>52785091
My players fought a really big slime. It was confined to an underground complex so it wasn't too big, but the players kept running into different parts of it when they tried to avoid the last one. They thought there were several slimes, hah!

In a level 20 one shot we were tasked with stopping a truly giant monster (towering over mountains) that just slowly walked across the world, destroying stuff wherever it stepped.

>>52786326
Polearm feat specifically says it can be used with quarterstaff, which can be used with only one hand. Use with a shield and you have very high damage and defense.

Also, you can refluff the shield as a parrying dagger and pass yourself off as Deathstroke, because he's basically the only guy that fights like this.

So I'm making an Awakened Mystic, I had in mind a rather physically feeble character with heavy emphasis on psionic/mental powers, but don't know how bad would it be to have subpar CON and DEX or low survivability in general.

Which of this sound better?

>8, 14, 11, 16, 14, 12
OR
>8, 13, 13, 16, 14, 12
OR
>8, 14, 13, 16, 14, 10

Going full
>8, 14, 14, 16, 12, 10
kinds of feels wrong, even if it gives more survivability.

This considering Mystics can change their saving throw proficiency, gain advantage on some skill checks and either boost their AC or self heal, but those can all be discipline taxes I'm not sure I can afford.

>Mastery of force's Inertial Armor (14+Dex AC)
>Bestial Form's Tough Hide (+2AC)
>Iron Durability's Psychic Focus (+1AC)

Also would any feat really benefit this concept or am I just fine maxing INT and then pumping DEX/CON and/or taking Resilient (CON)?

>tfw you spend time thinking up and writing a backstory and someone who couldn't be assed doing one just attaches their character to your backstory

>>52786301
Rogue: 19
DM: Aside from his sword and arrows, the only thing of value you find is a small leatherbound tome. Further examination reveals it to be written in a language you don't know, but the images and illustrations in the tome appear to be of some of the plants surrounding you, and unknown creatures.
Cleric: I'll use Healing Word
DM: Okay, you're able to stop the spread of that black color, stabilizing Gornara, but not reduce it.
Rogue: Does anyone in the party have any idea what language this book is written in?
DM: You show it to everyone, but they don't recognize it.
Wizard: Maybe it's a code. I'd like to look at it and see if it is written in any of the codes I know. Can I do a history check for that?
DM: Yes, roll please.
Wizard: 21
DM: Upon closer inspection, you are able to recognize it as a variant on a code you know, and with a few more minutes tinkering, decipher the book. It is an almanac for wandering the Deathdor Wastes.
Wizard: I skim the book, looking to see if anything in it matches what our guide is going through.
DM: it does. It seems Gornara was bitten by an Unreasonably Poisonous Insect, one of Deathdor's most dangerous creatures. Nearly invisible due to their size, they nonetheless have a bite that is incredibly lethal. The entry mentions a cure among Deathdor's plants, but it only grows on the northern mountain ridges, one day away, and two days out of your way to the Ominous Tower.
Ranger: Well, I say we leave him. I liked the guy, but it's too important.
Party debate commences, eventually they agree to do the morally ambiguous thing and tie him to his horse, give the creature a slap on the flank and hope he makes it back to town alive.
Ranger: I'll get us to that tower in once piece, especially now that I have this guidebook
DM: Okay, give me a survival check, with advantage.
Ranger: Uh, I rolled a 1, and a 2.
Cont.

>>52786430
Just create embarrassing past events for him now.
>HA HA FRANK REMEMBER WHEN YOU WERE CAUGHT BY THE TOWN PRIEST CROSSDRESSING AND HE PUT YOU IN STOCKS IN THE CENTER OF TOWN BUT THAT MERCENARY BAND CAME THROUGH AND THEY DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE A GUY AND YOU GOT A WILLY UP YOUR BUM

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So I made my players simultaneously groan in annoyance


>PC is a dumbass warlock
>new player, turbo edge lord
>abyssal tiefling, uses batman voice
>gets killed while murderhoboing a merchant
>is brought back to life by the party
>proceeds to continue being a dumbass
>dies again eating a green dragon heart that stings his mouth and made him vomit several times before he forced himself to eat it
>his new PC, Jackie chan, a drunken master monk, keysters things like ale
>he quits playing after he finds out another player has his old characters heart
>Jackie chan, now an npc, eats the heart
>explodes in gore and morphs into a tiefling
>an abyssal one with dragon wings and some green dragon features such as talons on his fingers
>basically blob monk warlock young dragon into one character
>"I'll have my REVENGE"
>flies off
>"fuck why do we keep having to deal with this retard"

>>52786401
How could you possibly put that in there and look your DM in the eye without seeming like the biggest munchkin in the fucking world?

>>52786456
DM: you're able to avoid most of the dangerous on your way to the Ominous Tower, but unfortunately, you run into a complication as you check your provisions: Unreasonably Poisonous Insects have nested into your foodstuffs, by your count, hundreds of them. None of the food is currently safe to remove from your packmule, which is also dead, Unreasonably Poisoned.

And so on and so on. The party has a choice at the end there: they could go on to the tower, or they could try to find a way to save their food. Going on gets them to their objective the fastest, which may be important. But it might leave them without food for the journey back, which can be represented with further skill challenges.

Whatever you do, don't treat it as a checkbox and inventory management system.

>>52786500
Well, he probably isn't playing a full caster class with that set up, so he can't be the biggest munchkin in the world.

>>52786500
That's the thing: you don't. It's purely a power play, widely regarded as one of the bigger slip-ups in 5e.

>>52786301
That sounds pretty good, thanks.

So I'm getting pissed off playing roll20 with my friends.

I'm DMing.

Constantly late. 10-30 minutes

One player does his homework while playing. So he's afk

The other two late players are watchers and don't even play aside from combat.

The only person that does play and doesn't get emo makes it a 1 on 1 game.

We recently moved schedules because weekends don't work. So one player had to drop out.


I'm just getting more and more agitated

>>52786597
Have you tried not playing DnD?

>>52786597
> not teaching that one guy his homework

>>52785017
Pathfinder Refugee here, is DnD 5th edition fun?

>>52786551
Dual wielding lances > quaterstaff + shield

>>52786597
Roll 20 requires you to filter bad users out. Keep the good player and try and find 3 more. Eventually you find some non-shithead players. Both players and DMs on Roll20 should know that if they've ever used it for any length of time.

To be honest, it's just like finding players in real life. Real life has the advantage of players not being able to do homework, or alt-tab and be distracted though.

>>52786618
Yeah. I like 5th a lot better than 3.5/PF. It's not perfect, but it's not hot garbage either. I wish the book release schedule was a little bit faster on Wizard's end. I don't care for pre-made adventures that much.

>>52786085
The book _used_ the same stats for dragons as for humanoids, but used them differently. Like there was a table relating your Strength to your ability to smash through castle walls, even though you rolled 3d6 down the line for character creation just like in regular D&D, and even a human fighter with 18/00 Strength couldn't punch through solid stone.

>>52786620
And if you're a halfling ranger, you can use them while on a panther for the added bonus of the pounce ability. Or a pterodactyl, if you want flight.

I love 5e, but sometimes I think the devs are morons.

>>52785091
Three Liches in Lair, with double HP;
also 1 ancient Red Dragon with 8 Red Dragon Wyrmlings and 80 Guards.

>>52786698
same anon
Player were Level 16;
and Level 14, respectively.

>>52786665
Honestly I like PF and anime, but I'm fed up with /pfg/ and all the erp faggotry.

>>52786717
That's the ultimate evolution of all generals.

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>The enemy army light their arrows on fire an-
>ACKSHUALY

>>52786696
Truly the thinking mans game

I'm creating a campaign for the first time, mostly challenge-lite sandbox designed for 2-3 players, and I'm struggling with some of these map makers I've found. Is there anything better than the ones roll20 suggest? Or am I stuck using pyromancers with the simple classic tileset?

>>52786146
This, I love the idea of cooked meals from magic monsters/plants essentially acting as potions.

>>52786834
Pen and paper.

>>52786834
I use Tiled and Photoshop/Illustrator myself.

Playing the alchemist/artificer and I hate it. When every round of combat is "did they make their dex save?" I both don't even do anything and have no effect half the time.

What's a more fun class to play?

Did something happend to the anon making https://5egmegaanon.github.io/5etools/backgrounds.html ?

>>52786500
Ask if you can use a spear instead to be a master spearman rather than bonking things with your unsharpened stick.

>>52786898
The poor fool decided to not remain anonymous and got into trouble. Roll20 shut the thing down by taking his account away and he got scared.

>>52786717
Personally, I like 5e more. It less of a math homework and more flexible.

Advantage and Disadvantage is such a great system. Able to use Persuasion (Strength) without feat/traits is great too.

And concentration economy make playing a caster more tactical, instead of spamming all the best spell.

>>52786769
Stop playing with Lindybeige.

>>52786939
Oh, that's sad. The project was helping me DM a lot...

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>>52786419
Anyone?

>>52787005
https://astranauta.github.io/5etools.html

Can anyone give me fun/not boring ideas on deposing a warlord so that his brother can take control? Interesting ways to make it look like an accident or cause him to willingly step down?

>>52787033
What resources do you have with which to depose him? Including your abilities and those of your allies.

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>>52787019

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>>52786696
One day I'll have a kobold ranger riding a pterodactyl and it's going to be not completely retarded, I swear.

Or a kobold paladin riding an axebeak...

>>52787043
I'm the dm, relatively new one at that. As far as resources they have created a small scale cult revolving around bear worship that has gripped the local countryside.

>>52786891
Anything
Even champion fighter because at least then you are making the rolls

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How does level 1 prison break sound as a 5e start instead of generic tavern etc
I was thinking of making it a prison ship to make it interesting, the goal of the PC's is to work together and take control if the ship

>>52787182
At least you're suggesting is not just me. Thanks.

>>52787233
Prison break is as generic as a tavern but generic isn't a bad thing

>>52787233
prison break is as generic as tavern...

Being a crew that was put together in order to break someone else out of a prison might work though.

>>52787085
What weapon would you use? Aren't Kobold's too manlet for a heavy crossbow?

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Last thread we figured out how to find decent people to play with. Just don't allow:
>half races
>tielfings
>dragonborn
>gnomes

>>52787480
You forgot v. human

>>52787480
>allowing wizard autists
>allowing battlemaster autists

/tg/ do you ever have problems thinking of why your character is an adventurer?
I want to play an arcane trickster who focuses on spells that deal poison/nectrotic damage. He'd be a lawful evil graverobber (lawful because he doesn't steal from the living) but I haven't thought of why he would be an adventurer.
I wanted to do something a bit less generic than "he wants money", maybe he is trying to break some kind of curse placed on him. Thoughts?

>>52787009
I am trying to build a mystic for a test run and I got no idea what the fuck I am building. So I can't help.

>>52787601
>lawful because he doesn't steal from the living
There are usually laws against sealing from the dead as well.

>>52786891
Every class that doesn't have spells is basically just repetitive combat, and also generally inferior.

>>52787675
I never had this problem picking up warlock invocation or wizard spells, it's aggravating.

What kind of mystic do you want?

>>52787233
Personally I greatly dislike starting a game where no one knows each other. I've always found starting in combat usually brings the team together though.
Why not invert the prison break?
Like the PC's have been hired to bolster the guards on a prison ship because they are transporting a rather infamous pirate. During the transit his crew attacks the ship to free him and the players escape amongst the wreckage?

>>52787698
I thought lawful evil generally meant they followed there own code of honor and I have some reservations about playing a chaotic evil character. What would you suggest?

>>52787601
His home town was looted of both it's wealth and citizens by a Necromancer or Lich, so now he feels that "The dead owe him"

>>52786980
Sounds nice, is UMD still a thing?

>>52787740
Well, there is some variation of what exactly entails Lawful ______, but just have your grave robber exploit some loophole in the law such that it's okay to loot the dead.

I really wish there was a resource for easily referencing Monsters without flipping through a book several times, like the Spell Cards that Gale Force 9 put out. Like index-size cards with Stat blocks on them and maybe a picture. Obviously you would need bigger one for things with Lair Actions.

Didn't the older editions have it set up as loose leaf sheets with hole punches in them?

>>52787792

Only for 13th level Rogues who take the Thief Archetype.

>>52787806
>I really wish there was a resource for easily referencing Monsters without flipping through a book several times
Isn't there one right in the OP? No pictures but you can google that shit

>>52787740
>own code of honor
more than that, is that you understand hierarchies and can maintain relationships with your peers, superiors and subordinates.

demons are chaotic evil while devils are lawful evil. hobgoblins are lawful evil, goblins neutral evil and bugbears are chaotic evil.

>>52787823
Ah, I liked having UMD for my non-casting classes.

>>52785192
>muh balance
Welcome to Ravenloft.

>>52787827

So there is. THey look nice too. I would rather have an official product on nice cardstock because I'm lazy and don't want to do it myself.

But maybe I can get some stuff printed.

>>52787740
You're pretty much right, an example would be Devils. Devils are Lawful Evil creatures of hell that wouldn't mind robbing a corpse or two as long as it's not someone with a lot of active, watching followers.

As for your 'why am I adventuring' a lot of common start points are; Are you trying to find something/go somewhere? Avoiding a person or place? Maybe some dickhead necromancer got one of his zombies to steal a family heirloom and it's a perfect excuse to check every corpse for it?

>>52787480
>half-races
>half-demons
>half-dragons
>lawn ornaments

Observation of human sexual experimentation and bastardizing of nature is half of my dwarf bard's shtick. I guess I can still laugh at the elf every time they do something fruity like rush to try on fancy new jewelry

>>52785192
It depends on your players, are your players new or not very creative? Yeah whatever slap them with some magic items. However if you have a more creative party then it's a different story. My CoS run ended up with one encounter with a Vampire, luckily a cleric revealed that radiant damage is the way to go, thought what else could be used for this, went to the church the the not shit town, second one you run into I can't remember the name and boom pop us some vials of holy water using the bottles of used potions of healing. Everyone now has a 'fuck you' option to any of those things. Even if it only does 1 radiant damage on a ranged attack.

But yeah, if your players aren't the type to prepare or figure shit out just baby them with magic items that literally do the job for them because they can't connect dots without express instruction and a handwritten guide.

>>52787855

One of the things that puts me off about Pathfinder was them giving UMD to caster classes.

Starting a new game with some people I met during a local game and a couple friends. I know it'd better role playing to roll for stats but I want us to start our new characters with either the nominal spread or the point buy because someone ALWAYS rolls badly and they either they to get the character killed or he endlessly bitches.

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Holy shit, remember back before downtime rules? My DM referred to this when I told him that I wanted to have a job. Thankfully I was able to show him the new UA.

>>52785091
Storm giant. I flew up to eye-level with him (completely unnecessarily) and cast shatter between his ears. Got swatted into a wall for my trouble, but that shit was awesome!

>>52787982
>pop us some vials of holy water
Holy water costs something like 25 gold worth of silver and a 1st level spell slot to craft. If you're DM is just handing that to you, then he might as well be giving you magic weapons.

>>52788047
Or you could you know let people roll and if someone sucks let them reroll once or switch to standard.

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>>52788047
>I know it'd better role playing to roll for stats
Wut?

>>52788049
"In this fantasy-adventure world, I want to be a part-time crofter"
"Even better, could we have pages of rules, so that everyone else who showed up can sit through half an hour of my crofting-adventure resolution?"

Why are you not playing Pathfinder again?

>>52787601
My character is obsessed with our half-orc Paladin, thinks he's an Adonis and swears to follow him (and by extension the party) to the end of the earth. The paladin is... annoyed with me, to say the least.

>>52788104
Because everyone else wanted to have shit to follow between adventures? Why are you being so hostile?

>>52788067
There was a priest who was able to create it, when you mention there's vampires in his town and you need x help to deal with it they're surprisingly generous. Not to mention that these vials would be limited by a bunch of factors, unlike a straight up magic weapon. So it's more about management and far more interesting than 'okay I no longer need to worry about this entire set of enemies.'

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>>52788110
Are you a fag or a fa/tg/irl?
In any case the other players don't want to enter your Ronery Realm.

>>52787929
kek

>>52788075
I think he means it makes your character more interesting if you have to work around a flaw with an average set of rolls.

Unless you're one of those lucky cunts who play Paladin and roll nothing lower than a 13 for everything then +1 for being some normie human.

Is there a way to extract the 5etools files with a mobile? Or not really?

>>52788142
Certainly a system with charts for determining your Tips serving drinks at the Flaccid Unicorn beats roleplaying/world/story development between modules.

>>52787588
Fucking min/max warlocks are the worst. They always want to do cheesy shit with a familiar and maximize eldritch blast damage.

Yeah it's strong, but it's so goddamn boring.

>>52788171
Stats never made a character "interesting".

>>52788178
Just because someone you and your group aren't capable of playing a game and roleplaying at the same time doesn't mean that another group can't.

>>52788199
I'm pretty sure you've never sat at one of my tables.
the Downtime UA is for DMs without improvisational skills or a realised world, and a sop for 3.babby's who need some mechanics charts to suckle on.

>>52788199
To avoid the wall of creativity and instead cheap out with rolling one or two dice should have considerably less rewards than the people trying though don't you think? It's at least an incentive to try otherwise everyone will just give up on roleplay and work at that goblin hooker place that pays out better than a young green dragon's porn stash.

>>52788075

Variation and a non-optimized setup can be fun and interesting to work around. It's why the point-buy was introduced. It can average as well as the spread but you can optimize a bit or go 13s and 12s for everything

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>>52788178
>He doesn't play as a group of merchants and crafters moving from city to city investing and selling their wares.

>>52788234
I absolutely agree. We use the UA as a tool to spur on roleplaying, not as a hard-and-fast, unchangeable autismfest that the other poster seems to think it is.

>>52788234
Nothing is more lucrative than Murderhobo-ing.
The conceit that the Gnome rogue would want to make shoes in his downtime for pocket-cash is retarded.
He's sleeping at the edge of roads with a filthy Half-Orc, an armored religious fanatic and a degenerate Elf Wizard specifically to avoid that sort of existence.

>>52788144
Priests aren't swimming in gold. They might happily make some for you, but you've still got to provide the materials.

Very early on, you're given a quest that will pit you against 6 vampires, with a good chance that you won't even know what you're walking into. Those Vampires will likely outlevel your party unless you were fucking around doing who knows what. They get multiple attacks and can automatically grapple you to prevent you from fleeing. Even if you have a small supply of holy water, all you'll be doing is temporarily shutting down the regen of a single vampire per successful hit. They still deal more damage and soak more than your entire party, and will very likely outnumber you.

If your party is composed primarily of martials, this is effectively an unwinnable fight, with or without holy water. Pretending as though considering your party makeup when deciding on loot is babying them is retarded.

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Did the druids are gay guy get banned or something? Haven't seen him disrupt a thread in a while

>>52788289
Here's a (You), friend. You seem to need it more than I do.

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>>52788271
No, and neither do you.
>>52788269
It leads to colossal anal pain on the part of the one guy who always ends up with completely shit stats, "I'll let you re-roll those" "Hey my stats are kinda shit too" "Ok, I'll let you reroll too." "Wait, what if we rolled 8d6 and threw out the worst five, but then...." and so forth.

Random stat generation is rubbish, you yourself don't like it, and just have romanticized ideas about it being somehow "pure" or some shit.

Again, stats don't make a character interesting except in the most superficial ways, and egregiously poor stats make for annoying/weak characters. They are Adventurers. People with shitty CON or the inability to carry a small cat don't gear up to clear Wyvern Mountain, the same way you don't have guys with 7 STR on the football squad.

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>>52788313
Back at (You), pal.
Be sure to chirp back in when you have more than someone else's meme to offer.

>>52788047
No, if you want good roleplaying from stats, roll in order.

Otherwise, it really isn't any better than a modified standard array.

>>52788374
Can't wait to be a wizard with 7 int because this method isn't fucking retarded.

>>52788308
There's a girl in my group who's a druid and every game she just turns into some bird to fly around and eat food while everyone else actually plays the game.

Our other druid constantly focuses the game on him and when he isn't the center of attention has extremely loud side conversations so you can't even hear the DM.

So I have come to the conclusion druids are indeed, gay.

What is the best way to run combat encounters in your experience?

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>>52788374
>No, if you want good roleplaying from stats
Playing "Moron the Cleric" or "Feebles the Ranger" isn't "good roleplaying", it's trite, juvenile schwarbage.

>>52787233
Sounds cool! Your PCs butting heads and not working together efficiently could make for good flavor

>>52788308
I never thought of him as disruptive, considering he only ever posted his message once. Whereas others (me) get the entire thread embroiled in stupid debates about the mechanics of Wall of Force.

>>52788348
>People with shitty con don't go adventuring
I wouldn't say that.
Someone might adventure BECAUSE they have shitty con, some uncurable disease that will kill them in some years time and they want to spend the last of their years in style and maybe look for a cure.

>>52788393
>Picking class before you roll
Rolling for stats not-in-order can cuck you out of classes, too.
If you roll bad stats, you're fucked as a monk. A 7 int wizard is actually better off than a monk with nothing but 12 in every stat.

>>52788423
If you don't like it, then absolutely, go for point buy instead of rolling for stats.

>>52788402
Fairly. If a bunch of goblins get destroyed by a Wizard, the others are going to run.

Likewise, if you're PC's are against intelligent foes like mages or the like, they're going to prioritize either who they can kill early, or who is the most dangerous to them and their group.

Equally, Dragons aren't going to give up the fact they can fucking fly and fight a paladin toe-to-toe on the ground.

Nothing worse than MMO level of combat where you just trade hits until someone wins.

>>52788397

>no outright homosexuality

>druids are gay

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>>52788402
Have some variation in the monsters. Have Bugbears with different move sets, like "this one Bugbear will throw sharpened poisoned javelins, this other one will try to drop rocks down on the party, the third one has an oversized flail, the fifth one is a bit addled and will claw and bite like a psycho!"
Rather than having a group of Bugbears rolling to hit every round until whittled down.

Try to incorporate even a minor detail of terrain or environment into your encounters, a choking stench, slick freezing rain, piles of unsteady logs, some minor detail. Grinding through combat at early-mid levels can be a chore if you let it.

>>52788435
So why does there seem to be a debate between point and rolling fro stats? My DM refused to let people roll for stats but I've heard others encouraging it.

Was it just a rule in the old versions you had to roll and 5e added point buy, or what?

>>52788449
Everything you just described makes the game worse for martials though.

>wizard can solo encounters with a single spell, because it makes sense
>dragons can just never be in sword range
>entire combat revolves around your party's wizard surviving.

I get what you're saying, but it doesn't seem to work out in practice if your party has any sort of martial presence.

>>52788449
Just curious, how do you use the flying with your dragons? Do you make it fly away and breath fire down on them or something?

>>52788477
There's a debate because there are two groups of people who think that the solution that works for their group necessarily works for every group, and therefore, any other solution is badwrongfun.

Rolling for stats is good if you want to encourage variance in builds.
Point Buy/Array is good if you want to make sure everything is exactly fair.

Both are justifiable goals not shared by everyone.

>>52788486
Yeah I get that, but a good DM can get around that sort of shit. Even something as simple as introducing Javelins with rope attached so the martials can try to pull something down or damage a wing to bring it down.

>>52788514
Shouldn't that be something the martials think of for themselves?

>>52788402
>>52788449
Honestly, these are my plans for the upcoming dungeon game I'm doing.

Most monsters have a sense of self preservation. If they feel they're heavily outnumbered and outclassed, they might be easy to intimidate off, or might actually just run away themselves or try to haggle for their lives. A succubus might play the pity game or simply keep up a disguise and not actually consider fighting from the party, but either stealing them or backstabbing them when they're at their worst. A goblin will run and try to fetch others.

Less intelligent and poorly organised creatures would likely need someone with good charisma to direct them and keep them coherent to attack, say, the spellcaster concentrating on the spell, and killing that leader would send them into shambles.

Of course, goblins and such don't value their lives or the lives of others so much that it derails the entire campaign into sob stories, though, but you could still pull a hostage situation.

Some monstrosities might not have these senses and might just fight to the death, but those are different.

In any case, the combat here is more dynamic - you might want to grapple enemies to keep them from escaping, nobody stays still, you might want to use intimidation in combat or haggle out of combat in the first place. Monsters might take a lone player hostage for a while instead of killing them. It's more interesting.

But don't forget to populate combat areas with all sorts of background objects.

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>>52788512
>Rolling for stats is good if you want to encourage characters to "suicide" their statistically inept characters.
>Point Buy/Array is good if you want to make sure everything is exactly fair.

Fix'd.

>>52788508
If it can breathe attack sure it's going to. Failing that it'll act like any sort of flying predator, fly down, release a flurry of attacks and then go back up. If it's a fight in their lair chances are they'll stay grounded to defend their horde if they seem to just be running for that over killing it first.

>>52788512
I see. I like the idea of rolling for stats just to make things interesting. It seems weird to focus so much on min/maxing in a roleplaying game.

>>52788508
I have never run any dragons but I wouldn't let dragons just shoot up into the air like a fly.
At least one round of "The dragon is flapping it's giant wings around preparing to take off"

>>52788524
Sure, but you need to give them an example that they can bullshit things by simply trying to add things to weapons. By showing them that you're willing to allow rinkydink weapons like that in your campaign gives them green light to be as creative as they like with weapon modifications.

Equally with older players, if you show you're happy for them to designate what part of the monster they're trying to attack and for that to have actual in-game consequences it gives them so much more room to be creative to overcome something like dragon's flight.

>>52788550
It's a fine idea in theory.
In practice it's a shit-festival of annoyed players and pleading to the DM, or stat-rolling conventions that are more generous than point-buy in the first place.

Usually begins as the former, and ends as the latter. Take this from someone who's been at this for over 22 years.

>>52788477
Rolling for stats in an artefact left over from much older editions where rolling for stats actually worked in the system. They kept it because people might get confused or butthurt otherwise, I guess.

I'll admit, if you want characters to not live very long (though 5e tries to keep everyone alive) and you really don't care about someone being twice as powerful or useless or whatever, then sure. It is a fun little activity that does give kinda different results.

Really it just feels that people are stuck in the past, though, and they seem to have rolling for stats on characters that will likely last an entire campaign and they'll accomodate high/low stats by tailor-making magic items for the low stat characters or if everyone's tougher just upping all the monster's toughness.

I'd say about 45% of /5eg/ supports point buy, maybe 30% are in an area of 'Do what you think is more fun' and 25% are 'roll for stats', but that's probably highly inaccurate.

>>52788543
>encourage characters to "suicide"
thats an issue with the players more than the game rules. players who dont want to deal with their less than perfect outcomes are annoying
>>52788547
so how do you attack it as a melee? when it comes down to attack?

Proper way to do a fantasy mech justice? Not gundam size, more of an enhanced armor than anything else.

>>52788589
>so how do you attack it as a melee? when it comes down to attack?

I mentioned in another post the idea of allowing martials to modify or get equipment designed to pull down flying targets, even if it's as simple as a javelin with rope attached to it or being able to aim for their wings with ranged attacks.

>>52788543
There are plenty of ways to randomly generate stats without risking a useless character. The simplest one I can think of is setting a minimum stat threshold. If your total stats are below some number (67 is a good one), then you can take the standard array instead of your rolled stats.

Or you could constrain the randomness itself: For instance, you can generate stats with rolls for 3 stats, then take the opposite number (i.e. Maximum possible roll- actual number rolled) for the next three stats. This will ensure your stat total is exactly average, though you do have to set a minimum roll for this, because you can generate some insane results with normal rolls.

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>>52788589
>less than perfect
Let me ask, do you actually play in a campaign, or are you just one of the resident theoretical autists.
Because you are really coming off as the latter.

No one wants to play Hodor or "Steven Hawkings the Magician" over the course of a campaign, and people like yourself who insist "it might be interesting" are talking out of their asses.

>>52788550
The idea is that everybody deserves a certain length of time in the limelight, and rolling for stats skews this into 'Okay, you get a 20% share of the limelight, you get a 30% share and you get a 50% share..."
Of course, you can make up for it with roleplaying and I've seen a monk with only 14 in dex and wis at level ~5 make up for their complete inaptitude by being the best talker out of combat, but that's more because the 'face' characters were smug assholes and he was probably the only nice guy in the party.

Rolling for stats also encourages min-maxing somewhat. Rolled bad stats? Play a moon druid. Bam, who gives a fuck anymore?
Rolled good stats? Play a paladin. Bam, you're now the king of combat and everybody else will be sucking you off under the table for your +5 saves while you outdamage the fighter and outburst the wizard.

>>52788638
>There are plenty of ways to randomly generate stats without risking a useless character.
see
>>52788585
Basically once you start creating generous conventions and "stat minimums" you are basically doing point-buy and just taking half the night doing it.

>>52788640
Not him, but I've DMed for 2 campaigns now that have rolled for stats at the player's election, and several one shots with new characters in between. They enjoyed it, and we didn't have any of the issues you've outlined because we're normal people capable of following common sense.

>>52788640
Why are you arguing with rollspergs

>>52788657
See >>52788659

I don't know what kind of autistic spazzes you play with, but it takes 2 to 3 minutes for everyone to roll stats and assign them for us. No pleading or anything.

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>>52785017
I'm playing in a campaign with a bunch of friends right now. We've played two campaigns before so it's not like it's anything new, but the DM wanted to try giving us somewhat premade characters (building on certain backstories/class setups instead of makeing a character from scratch). He's obviously put in a lot of work in tying the characters together and I appreciate that, but after a few clearly near-death encounters I'm becoming increasingly convinced that he will not allow any of our characters to die for the sake of the story, and has prepared measures to prevent any fatalities that may occur.

He's been a pretty good DM thus far and it's not a bad story, but I feel like I can't fully get into it because I know that taking dangerous courses of action probably won't have consequences. Am I wrong to be disheartened about this?

>>52788640
It can be quite fun, actually. A poor stat gives inspiration for a character idea.
But it's a crutch. A good player doesn't need 5 in a stat to come up with a reasonable flaw. They don't have to go so melodramatic, they don't need some guy in a wheelchair to make their charcater interesting.
They can put an 8 in dexterity and say that they're clumsy, enough that it has its moments but not enough so 50% of the campaign is covering for his screw-ups. And with that, they can focus more on the character than their gimmick.

>>52788640
I play, I'm just new to the game.

>>52788659
>and several one shots with new characters in between
Completely irrelevant to the conversation. I don't care how you generate some random character for the Module of the Night.

If you want to sashay into Tomb of Horrors with an 8 Con for chuckles, be my guest.

>>52788670
Completely understandable. Just tell him that in private. He'll probably deny it up and down, but at least he'll probably start being a bit more dangerous.

>>52788670
No. Your DM is taking all of the fun away to save his story.

>>52788638
>There are plenty of ways to randomly generate stats without risking a useless character
You're just lessening the point of rolling for stats.

Normally you have a chance someone gets overpowered, someone gets underpowered, and somebody gets average power. You get twice the variation, but twice the possibility of things going badly.
Then, if you halve that, you have just normal amount of variation and normal amounts of things going badly.

Because the difference between a powerful fighter and a normal fighter is pretty much the same as the difference between a normal fighter and a weak fighter.

Also if you make EVERYBODY more powerful, then you basically have 'standard array but stronger' and then MAD classes like monks and paladins become more powerful relative to everybody else.

>>52788434
I was one of those people too

>>52788659
And how did they enjoy it any more than just using point buy or something?

Considering rolling for stats isn't a significant part of the game, it'd be unusual to expect it to be contributing to a long campaign's 'fun value'. A one-shot maybe, but on a long campaign it sounds like 2 minutes of rolling that could potentially make the campaign worse or better by a margin, though a margin that can be covered by the game.

>>52788695
You do know ToH was literally made for min/maxing autists right?

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>>52788710
The trick, and most DM's don't come to this realization, is having Truly Awful Consequences to Losing.
Think of the finale to Empire Strikes Back.
It's the D&D equivalent to a Total Party Wipe.
But people make it back for the next adventure, minus some limbs and a ship or NPC or two.

The trick in a story-based campaign is to have Awful Consequences for complete failure, shit that can be practically as bad as rolling up a new character.

Players with good characters they're attached to, (which is the case in the game I run) can be Jamie Lannister'd or Tyrion'd, but shouldn't be Ned Stark'd.

>>52788670
It sounds seriosuly like your DM wants to write the story by himself, without you lot contributing anything but the minor details. Tell him to get a story book and invite everyone over for storytime instead.

>>52788695
Strange, for being completely irrelevant, it is the only thing that you chose to respond to. Do you just ignore the things you feel are relevant and counter to your point?

>>52788721
>You're just lessening the point of rolling for stats.

And? Rolling for stats generates variance. I want variance. I don't want too much variance. This is a sliding scale. At one end is "roll 6d20 down the line after picking your race and class", and at the other is point buy/array. Each group needs to find their own position on the scale.

>>52788742
The first campaign we played was point buy, and one shots during it were done with point buy as well. The one shot between the 1st and second campaign we decided to try rolling for stats. For the second campaign I asked them what they wanted to do, and they wanted to roll. I can only assume they enjoyed it more, because they chose it themselves.

>>52788763
>You do know ToH was literally made for min/maxing autists right?
I played through Tomb of Horrors the day the first edition of it dropped at my LCS/Gamestore's shelf, many years ago.
It was always intended to be a deadly American Ninja dungeon for the foolhardy.

>>52788780
>I want variance. I don't want too much variance
Then Point Buy.
People do not point buy the same stat set, and certainly don't buy up the same stats.

You just want some players to randomly have stat advantages over other players "because it's fun". It adds no fun to the game, especially for the guy at the low end of the curve.

Is it a good idea to dip in one level of rogue for Knowledge domain cleric? Seems like I'm reaching into a meme build territory with so many skill proficiency...

>>52788840
>Is it a good idea to dip
No.
Stop meme-building and/or munchkining.
You get more Feats than anyone who isn't the Fighter, so just take Skilled.

>>52788834
>People do not point buy the same stat set, and certainly don't buy up the same stats.
this has not been my experience

>>52788791
I first played it in 1980, and that's probably the most accurate description I've heard. Most players nowadays assume it's this hideous deathtrap (and it is), but given the capabilities of high level characters, it felt a lot more like American Ninja or Wipeout.

>>52788834
Point Buy doesn't add variance to the game, since people will generate the same arrays with it, depending of course on how MAD their base class is. Also at this point, I doubt you understand the concept of "sliding scale", so until you can prove otherwise, please adopt a trip so I can filter out dumbass responses like that.

>>52788780
Once you lose variance, you kind of lose the point of rolling for stats and it doesn't have much point above just point buy or something. You don't solve any problems by reducing variance, you just lessen them, and honestly I guess it works if you have a group that insists on rolling for stats or point buy, because you can choose to either roll for stats in a way that won't screw them other (Thus appeasing them and not actually messing with balance as much) or going for point buy if everyone wants point buy. .. So I guess it has a place. Though there's also >>52788834
because often rolling for stats just feels like standard array with slightly better/worse stats which doesn't make it vary much more than point buy at all.


Also, it's not really a good assumption to think that because people want to roll for stats it's a good idea. It's also possible to want to roll stats because it's easier to min-max with: You roll good stats, you play some OP combination that needs good stats. You roll bad stats, you play something that's powerful no matter your stats.
But in any case it's really hard to definitely say what people enjoy more, because often people enjoy rolling for stats more at the time but then get into gripes about it later, whereas people will feel indifference about point buy.
At least on a more objective measure, rolling for stats imbalances the game and gives you stats the game wasn't balanced around you having.

>>52788880
If you really want people to stop putting high stats in con, dex and wis, you can always roll in order, you know.

>>52788868
I mean 1 Rogue / Knowledge Cleric the rest.

>>52788840
rogue 1/knowledge domain 1/bard x or bust.

>>52788880
A lot of classes dip a bit into CON and DEX because it encourages survival. DEX is massively weighted in the game so everyone but the Heavy Armor tank is going to invest in it.
The other four stats are usually all over the place according to class. Everyone wants an 18 starting in their prime stat because Bounded Accuracy/Saves makes it super-effective.

Heroes in dungeon crawl games are going to have good stats.
No one is going to adventure as a team with Rincewind, he'll just get himself and everyone else killed.

>>52788893
>Once you lose variance, you kind of lose the point of rolling for stats and it doesn't have much point above just point buy or something. You don't solve any problems by reducing variance, you just lessen them,

Variance isn't a problem. Excessive variance is. Learn the difference.
>I guess it works if you have a group that insists on rolling for stats or point buy, because you can choose to either roll for stats in a way that won't screw them other (Thus appeasing them and not actually messing with balance as much) or going for point buy if everyone wants point buy. ..
We don't play point buy anymore. I do offer them a standard array if they don't like the stats they generated, but nobody has taken it yet.

>It's also possible to want to roll stats because it's easier to min-max with: You roll good stats, you play some OP combination that needs good stats. You roll bad stats, you play something that's powerful no matter your stats.

You can roll for stats after picking race and class, removing that risk.

>At least on a more objective measure, rolling for stats imbalances the game and gives you stats the game wasn't balanced around you having.

Are you saying the game was balanced around everyone being minmaxed to hell with pointbuy, or that it is impossible to roll for stats in a way that is in line with point bought stats? Because you're wrong on both accounts.

>>52788907
Reread his post. He's saying that people generate the same arrays in point buy. He isn't commenting on rolling directly.

Do green-flame blade and divine strike work as well together as it looks like they do?

What would be the best build for mounted combat?

I'm thinking a PAM Pally with the mounted feat, for advantage on 3 potential smite hits, but are there even any large mounts that are available or potentially usable?

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>>52788959
>He's saying that people generate the same arrays in point buy.
This is only true of optimizers like >>52788890 here.
I guess "Unprofessional Noobs" who "don't understand the concept of sliding scale" (lel) don't buy the same array, but you can bet that he does.
But fuck him anyway, he doesn't actually play with friends. He's a travelling Tha/tg/uy sure as the day is long.

If I want to play a Life Cleric that can do some melee... should I go Half-Elf Fighter 1 / Life Cleric X or pure Wood Elf Life Cleric?

Mostly venting but open to suggestions.

Player has a lol so randumb moment and picks up a berserk axe. For those of you who don't know, a berserker axe has a chance to cause an enrage when the wielder takes damage. The current wielder would probably kill at least one party member if he enraged.

The party is currently a long way from the surface, with many opportunities to take damage. If he enrages at the wrong time it could be a TPK.

I want to punish the player for being a complete retard but I don't want to punish the whole group for it.

I intend to gouge him for a Remove Curse spell from a cleric once they're topside, but that assumes the party makes it that long. Ugh.

>>52788990
How likely is this even going to become an issue in your campaign?
Because in my long experience the answer has always been "not very damn often".

Maybe you should specialize in something the party will find useful, especially at low levels?

>>52788959
>Are you saying the game was balanced around pointbuy?
The game is balanced around everyone minmaxed to hell with pointbuy, yes.
The game assumes that, as a monk, you'll start with 16 in wis and dex and 14 in con or so.

If you have more than that, you become rather powerful starting with high AC, having plenty of health, having great saves all around since your main stats are all the key stats along with great skills and damage to start with since you start with two attacks.
If you have less than that, you become a laughing stock. You can actually end up below 10 AC, but you're more likely to be around 12-14 AC with shit health, worse saves, worse skills and piss-all for damage because you only have 1d4s to attack with, with a feeble +1 or +2 on top.

Sure, you can remove the lower 'laughingstock' possibility, but it doesn't leave out the fact you could either be a balanced monk or an overpowered monk. Because, I mean, you're just giving one of the monks more class features (ASIs) because in the two minutes at the start of the campaign you decided he's allowed to be cooler.

>Roll for stats after picking race and class
Only if you remove the 'rolling for poor stats' part and even then somebody might want to not play, say, a fighter with average stats when they realize the fighter has crazy good stats and they know their only option if they don't want to be overshadowed by twice the damage is to be charismatic support that they didn't feel like playing.

>>52789035
Was he aware ahead of time that it was a "cursed item"? Or just that it's a Berserker's Axe? Because that sounds superficially like a good Barbarian item.
You've snared a character with a cursed item, which is ostensibly why you PLACED ONE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, and now you want to extra-punishing him for falling into the trap you set?
Am I reading that right?

>>52789035
Let him TPK but then be like 'bunch of drow recovered your corpses, revived you and now you're they're slaves' and roll into OOTA or some other underdark adventure.

>>52789035
The real question is why you gave him a berserk axe to begin with. The only person at fault is you.

>>52788959
>>52789061
>Excessive variance is the problem, normal variance isn't
No, it's the same problem, on a different scale.

Excessive variance is more notable and more extreme and thus actually achieves the goal of variance more, but has more chances of fucking you up.
Having only a bit of variance makes the whole shindig kind of pointless but still has a slight problem of imbalancing the game by making some more powerful than others.

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>>52789089
The entire argument for stat-rolling is "It feels more GENUINE", or some variation thereof.

You can't successfully argue with someone's FEELS.

>>52789070
It was lodged in the wall of a vampire's crypt giving off a shadow shaped like a hand rather than an axe. He used Divine Sense on it and could tell it was desecrated as fuck. I feel like that was enough of a "paladin shouldn't touch this" warning.

How far can you travel with teleport?10 feet?

And is planeshift still a thing?

>>52789061
>The game is balanced around everyone minmaxed to hell with pointbuy, yes.
Yeah, your argument is stupid then. PointBuy shouldn't even be an option in your case, or racial choice, because both could lead to players having unoptimal stats for their class and role.

>>52789118
There are many ways to teleport, so unless you mean the spell, which should say it's distance, I don't know what to tell you.

>>52789079
He really is about the worst DM imaginable.
"Hah, you fell into my spiked pit! You dumbass sucker. Wait, now I'm going to make you roll for infection and tetnus, you deserve it for FALLING INTO A PIT YOU STUPID!!!"

Anyone else DMs for Adventure league? Not because you want to, but because it's the only way to fucking play DnD in the local area?

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>>52789118

>>52789149
Yeah I can straight up tell just by the way he worded his original post. Instead of saying something along the lines of "Shit I fucked up, how do I salvage the situation?" he instead puts all the blame on his player. Yes, his player was stupid for grabbing a desecrated axe in a vampire's crypt, but I probably would've done the same thing just to keep things interesting. Surely it was put there to be used/fixed/interacted with?

>>52789108
Well, even as point bug faggot, I can say there is a point to rolling for stats.

People often have fun when they do it.

My problem is that it's a one-off fun that then punishes the party for the entirerty of the rest of the campaign. It doesn't provide any more fun.

Point buy has an objective good about it, rolling for stats has an objective bad about it, but point buy is kind of bland and rolling for stats has that subjective good about it.

>>52789122
>Your argument is now invalid because point buy clearly isn't balanced for playing with 5e
I mean, you're throwing a big fish out here, so you'd better actually explain it properly rather than 'No, you're wrong.'
Point buy gives you +3 to up to 3 stats, 2 stats or maybe 1 stat, but no +4s, and likely one or two +2s depending on how many +3s you have, and then a bit of customizing your dump stats.

So, generally, we can say that 'With point buy, everyone will start with +3 to their main stats or otherwise a +2'
So, then. Are +3s at level 1 imbalanced? Too low?
Or are you arguing about MAD classes not getting to cover everything? Monks only need three stats, so they're mostly fine. Paladins are the main thing here - They need strength, charisma and con, and to a lesser extent dex and wis, and don't need int. But paladins are already pretty powerful anyway, unlike monks.


So what's the problem? We've gone from attacking rolled stats to point buy.

>>52789177
If there are enough gamers around to support AL, there are enough to have a regular campaign.
Unless you have -10 in socializing.

Pick up games are as bad as convention gaming; they are only fun when people are drunk enough. Never would I do that as a practice.

>>52789194
>People often have fun when they do it.
People often have fun playing Blackjack, but then have it become problem when the group dinner check arrives and they can't cover their end.

It can be "fun" to let the dice roll, the consequences are often not very fun.

>>52789146
Yeah, the spell.

"This spell instantly transports you and up to eight willing creatures of your choice that you can see within range, or a single object that you can see within range, to a destination you select."

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>>52789194
My 2 year Lankhmar campaign used 30 Point Buy, and the only net effect was enhanced survivability at lvls 1-3 (which was my intent), and more heroic combats at levels 4-7 (which the players enjoyed).
I do not run pre-written modules, and understand that CR is a bad joke.

what's the easiest way to achieve indefinit fire and lightning immunity on a PC?
asking for thematic purposes

>>52789261
Yeah, that's a pretty good way to put it.

That's why I'd let people justify rolling for stats for a one-shot or a campaign where characters die frequently where you don't suffer the consequences for long, but holy shit I've seen people do rolling for stats in a game that has lasted a year and may continue to go on for two or three years where nobody of the originals has died and made a new character and the only things to come of it are 'Why am I so useless' and 'I'd feel bad if I built my character how I want to build them because I'd basically then be that other player but better'
And in that second case it doesn't actually require the person they'd be better than to have poor stats, it just requires the first person to have good stats.

>>52789309
Having a slightly higher point buy shouldn't really affect survivability, it should mostly just make it easier to have slightly better dump stats, such as 12 - 10 - 8 instead of 10 - 10 - 8 or 10 - 8 - 8
I'd personally suggest a point buy of around 30-32.

>>52789177
Yes, and let me tell you that the people who play Adventurer's League are the worst fucking autists and social rejects that society has on offer.

All of the adventures are goddamn garbage, and they're balanced so that it's impossible to even get close to killing a character. You pretty much have to join one of the factions that no one gives a shit about, but the factions do nothing except attract the most extremely retarded members.

Seriously, you can tell everything you need to know about a player by them telling you what their faction is.

Harpers are all lolrandumb bards and wizards that think they're James Bond.
Order of the Gauntlet players have strong opinions on National Socialism and the refugee crisis.
Emerald Enclave players are rangers that think they're Legolas.
Lords' Alliance players are just Order of the Gauntlet players that forgot they're not the same thing.
Zhentarim players ask the DM every five minutes if there's anything worth stealing off of every NPC.

Factions were a mistake, but not as big of a mistake as Adventurer's League. It should have died in the 90's back when it was just the RPGA.

sorry if I seem like an angry person, I just hate Adventurer's League so much

>>52789327
Mystic is your only choice. I don't think even spell can grant you immunity to X in 5e.

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>>52789309
Oh and they also recieved a +2 CON boon from the Earth God after barely surviving a horror-show involving a deep hole dungeon full of Chulhu-esque horrors and a voidcraft poisoning the countryside with radiation.

Still haven't had any difficulty in challenging them, in fact it's easier to lean hard on them knowing they can take abuse and the occasional nasty crit.

>>52789327
Polymorph into something that can do that.

>>52789327
5e isn't the sort that gives out such high power so easily.

>>52789353
It's not that bad, I play adventurers league and it's no where near this. All of the characters have actual personalities and almost all of us have been playing d&d for a long time. I guess It's just very good in my area

>>52789405
All TTRPGs come down to "people quality".
I am so fortunate there.

>>52789356
>>52789378
>>52789380
Guess I'll settle for resistance then. cheers lads.

>>52789194
I think only (variant) human, half-elf and triton let you have +3 in 3 stats on creation, so 2 stats at +3 is the standard for both point buy and the standard array if you can make the 14+2 and the 15+1, which i've heard not everyone allows.

rolling for stats and starting with a +4 or even a +5 destroys all the balance the game attempts to have, as does starting with several -1, -2s or even -3s.

>>52789353
Why do you keep DMing for it?

>>52789483
He's just as bad?
His personal habits make people shudder at the idea of having him into their home?
He's almost enjoying his anger?

take your pick.

>>52789353
They guys I run with are a pretty chill pack. All some variant of Chaotic N, but in a fun way. We all play in the same shop because none of us have the position to be able to host at home. I don't hate AL, but I certainly don't like it in the sense it puts priority on new players over consistency. The DM rewards are the only real plus to it outside of the module material. I don't like all of it, but I can take any of those and put my own spin on them.

>>52789483
Because I'm in Montana for the next three months and no one else lives here. Can't wait to move back.

also I do almost enjoy my anger at times

>>52789108
The entire argument for rolling being bad or stupid is nothing. Don't know why you expect us to provide a counterargument when there's nothing valid to counter.

>>52789557
THE argument is "your character could be shitty"

>>52789540
Stuck there? Try living there all your life. This place is a blackhole of shit players. At least my online experience has been good.

I just wanna play a fucking fighter or rogue but there's always one in every party already

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

>>52789588
Storytime

>>52789595
I've stopped caring about party duplicity and don't ask what the existing party class comp is anymore. ruins the fun.

>>52789595
You can do with two fighters or rogues, just pick up another subclass.

>>52789577
So? This is a role playing game, you don't have to be the most optimal you could possibly be. I won't even get into how slippery the slope of that argument is for now, since it's on my side. If you decide to roll, you do so with the mindset that anything can happen. If you can't accept that, then you don't roll.

>>52789596
I had a player get mad and break up a play group I DMed for because I wouldn't increase the group size to 7 to let his girl-thing-of-the-month play a chaotic evil cleric. Same person often spent most of a session on his phone.

I also played in a group where people were playing with a mix of the 5e PHB, the d20srd website, and dandwiki homebrew, where the rogue had 24 Dex but didn't understand how sneak attack works. The DM didn't understand the problem.

>>52789666
No I was explaining the argument I'm okay with rolling. It's my perfered method

Quick question. For mystics do I need one hand free to do my psionic attacks?

>>52789753
I don't think so, there's explicitly no somatic components.

>>52789557
The arguments are:

For Rolling:
'It's fun to roll + It's a game about rolling'
'It creates variation'
'You might get to make another character at some point'
'It can be fun to have more powerful / less powerful characters'

Against Rolling:
'It creates imbalance, 5e was not balanced around it'
'It's two minutes of rolling that affects the game until the end/character death'
'Variation is only superficial as attributes only affect roll values + Players will still order their stats the correct way if you don't roll in order'

Something like that. It's not nothing.

>>52789780
Thanks. I assume things are from the mind, the hands have no need.

>>52789789
If 5e wasn't balanced around it, then why is it the recommended option in the dmg?

>>52789789
>Against Rolling:
Sure seems like nothing to be. Maybe you should come up with arguments instead of making shit up that either isn't true or doesn't matter. Do I really have to spend the time to point out why they're all invalid?

>>52789854
*phb

Going with PHB content, what would you say is the best option for a ranged Fighter?

>>52789908
A longbow

>>52789908
Battlemaster with xbow xpert and sharpshooter, wielding a hand crossbow.

>>52789908
ranged weaponry

>We're past 300 replies
>Bracing for shitposting to intensifie

>>52789963
post lewd anime girls

>>52789866
>Trying to say that varied stats doesn't cause imbalance and also isn't within what the game expects
>Trying to say that it's much fun beyond the act of rolling itself
>Trying to say that players won't just put their stats in the same order as with standard array, creating standard array except with a slight variation
>Trying to say that stats do anything aside from make you roll +1 on this or -1 on that other than for multiclassing where you need 13 or on very specific abilities like tempest/war cleric's use as many times as you have wis modifier, or a couple of extra prepared spells

>Yeah, it's nothing

Honestly you'd do better to not say anything, to be honest.

>>52789854
While this is a valid point, it's not a valid argument because it's just saying 'Well, they put it there, so it MUST be right.'
The most logical explanation is 'Every other edition of D&D had rolling for stats, so it wouldn't be D&D if we didn't put rolling for stats in here' and 'It's new players, so they're going to be imbalanced anyway because they dont' know what the fuck is happening'.

new thread
>>52787575

>>52789866
Please do, especially since that anon was just summarizing what's been going on in the thread you fucking jackaloon

>>52785091
We once fought a giga-tarrasque that was "over 20,000 feet tall". I tried telling the DM how retarded that was, but she didn't listen.

Our barbarian just sort of parachuted onto its back and did most of the work. It was sort of like a flee killing an elephant, but whatever.

Almost immediately afterward, we fought a demon meat polyhedron of similar size. That time we had a lot of divine assistance, so it made more sense.

Things get weird when you have big parties at level 20 I guess.

>>52789993
We aren't even on page 8 yet

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>>52789993

>>52790009
It's a link to pfg

>>52790039
Type first ask questions later

>>52790065
No because that's how we get butthurt pfgers making pfg tier 5eg with most of the shit left out just for the sake of trolling 5e back. Then the thread devolves into a shit fest of people bitching about the op but none of them nutting up and making an appropriate thread.

Stop being such a colossal faggot

>>52790110
from my point of view you're the colossal faggot.

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>>52790186
From my point of view the jedi are evil

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Does anyone know when more non-adventure books are coming?

>>52790233
soon(tm)

>>52789981
>Honestly you'd do better to not say anything, to be honest.
With how you twist reality, maybe it is. What's the point of arguing against someone who puts words in the other's mouth so they can pretend they defeated an argument they never made.

>>52790002
The fact that rolling affects the character until death is not an argument against rolling. It's simply a matter of fact.

Variation being argued as superficial, if anything, is an argument that runs counter to what it purports to be arguing for. If you argue that the variation caused by rolling isn't that important, is superficial, then you can't argue it as the reason for rolling being bad-- because by your argument it's superficial.

In regards to imbalance and that 5e was not balanced around it: Besides it being the default method, and the variance apparently being of little value: All balance regarding rolls (which is all stats affect) is balanced on a case by case basis by the DM. The real balancing of 5e is done in terms of action economy, access to abilities, etc. Stuff that your stats barely effect, if they do at all.

Of the three "arguments" brought up, the only thing can be considered valid is the argument that rolling can cause imbalance because you can have a shit-stat person and a god-stat person in the same team. The problem with this argument is that since you allocate your stats as you want, this niche case rarely happens. And even if it does, the character is not useless and the existence of a d20 swing introduces randomness that further obscures the potential badness of said character. It's really only an good argument against rolling if you're obsessed with maximizing your potential and can't be an adult and accept playing a character moderately worse than someone else (which, as I mentioned before, is a slippery slope argument that extends into gear and feat choices.)

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>>52790233
All dem feats tho.

>>52790287
When people say stats are superficial they mean for character concepts and roleplaying, the things people say rolling helps.

If I take crossbow expert and two-weapon fighting does that mean I can dual wield hand crossbows?

>>52790287
>The fact that rolling affects the character until death is not an argument against rolling. It's simply a matter of fact.
It's a counter argument against the fact that people enjoy rolling itself. They enjoy the rolling, but then there's no more rolling and they have to enjoy the game itself instead.

When people say 'My group wanted to roll!' or 'My group enjoys rolling!' it's often the act of rolling itself, like gambling, that's fun, not the crippling debt afterwards.

>because by your argument it's superficial
Again, it's a counter argument against 'It makes variation, so it's fun!' The variation is superficial, but the impact it has on the game due to rolled stats isn't.
Simply put, you're saying 'Okay, because you rolled poor stats that one time a year ago, I'm going to deny 20% more of your attempts to do things, whereas I'm 20% more likely to accept attempts from this other player'. It isn't 'Oh, everybody's character is so different!' but 'This character has a 20% higher chance of success' and that's why it's superficial - it looks cute on the surface, but it doesn't actually have any meaningful, fun effect on the game.
And if you say 'But 20% higher chance of success is good, let's give that to everyone!' then the DM will likely just make everything 20% harder to compensate or else everything's too easy.

>>52790381
How would you reload them?

>>52790381
You don't need two-weapon fighting as a fighting style for that, since the off-hand issue only applies to dual-wielding melee weapons.

>>52790381
you can already do that without those features.

>>52790414
by ignoring the load property of course.

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>>52790186
Good that means then you and I can oil up and struggle cuddle

>>52790335
>>52790394
I guess I should restate my original stance. I'm not arguing that rolling is better or superior. Nor will I make any attempt to defend any argument people make for why people should roll. I'm only arguing that the arguments against rolling, the arguments that say rolling is bad, are mostly full of shit. Depending on what characters I want to attempt to play, I'll use either rolling or the variant point buy. They're both fine.

>>52789753
Nope, but pointing at stuff is cool.

>>52790438
Loading property is only being able to attack with it once per turn. The ammo property is the one that requires you to have a free hand to load with iirc.

>>52790450
I don't understand how men justify this sport and their heterosexuality at the same time.

>>52790459
>all the arguments against rolling are bad
>all the arguments for rolling aren't bad
>but i'm totally not saying rolling is superior guys, i'm a superior neutral party

>>52790481
ignore that one too

>>52790537
Well if you just ignore all the rules you can do whatever you want, however you want.

>>52790287
>>52790394
>Besides it being the default method
Just because it's the default method, does not mean that it's balanced. It's not an argument. Not that you actually used it in the argument, I just thought I'd point it out, but the statement that it's the default method does make you think it might be all right.

>The real balancing of 5e is done in terms of action economy, etc, stuff that your stats barely effect
A fighter that has 4 more strength than another fighter can actually end up doing 50% more damage.

A monk that has 3 more dexterity, wisdom and constitution (Entirely possible) is probably about 50% more damaging, 80% harder to kill (Better AC, more health, higher saves, better initiative, etc)
When a monk ups dexterity, they get:
+Hit chance
+Damage (Effectively multiplies with hit chance)
+Damage reduced on deflect arrows
+Stealth, Sleight of Hand, Acrobatics
+Dex saves
+Initiative
+AC
It's a significant boost. Rogues get all of that, too, it's just it affects their damage a bit less.

Of course, you're not changing their action economy, but you're changing the effectiveness of what they do with that action economy.

>Can't accept a character being worse than someone else
It's a case of 'I want to have my time in the limelight and be good at something, not have another player be literally better at everything my character can do'. And, sure you can still carve out your niche and roleplay, but it's not as fun as having something unique.

>>52790459
So you're implying there are other reasons to want to point buy. So what even are they?

'Because I hate minmaxers who insist on rolling for stats so they can kill themselves until they get a good character, or will play a character that doesn't need good stats if they roll low or will play a character that abuses good stats if they roll high and rub it in everyone's faces?'

>>52790567
good, I roll to sell the ancient red dragon the bathroom buddy using the powers of sleight of hand and performance. I believe, due to how long this poor fellow has spent spiting fire and snorting sulfur, that I get advantage on the roll. He could really use such a technological marvel.

My monk is level 3 with 12str, 18 dex, 15 con, 8 Intel, 17 wis, 12 charisma, open palm. How strong am I? This is my first time playing dnd.