Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

>>52780765
That's what 7th was.

I can't decide what DA chapter to do

>>52780801
It won't be different, it'll be mostly the same, wait and see

>>52780410
Asking my rules question since no one answered.

>>52780830
My fucking ass it will, GW has made it plain this is the time for a big move

wait and see :^)

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Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!

>>52780830
>it'll be mostly the same

But GW has already said they are looking at replacing a bunch of shit, even if half of those things come to be it'll still be much closer to 2nd ed than the current rules or are you just pretending to be retarded or some weak b8 shit?.

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>when you skip out on painting your night lords to play eternal crusade and your life choices just keep compounding

>>52780835
Refer to the FAQ, it's addressed there.

>>52780878
>eternal crusade
Scream eternally in the warp for your transgressions.

Does anyone have thoughts on using Vaylund Cal? He's the only Iron Hands character and looks real hard to kill but also real expensive.

>>52780830
Worse still, it will be 40k: Age of the Emperor.

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Posting my gay list for criticism

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>>52780886
>get early free key
>play night lords for inspiration
>the players are pretty competent
>skip to everyone free
>cant even play CSM because they're all morons
>switch to my ork
>they're somewhat competent but mostly morons
>refuse to play LSM
>try out eldar
>hate it at first but slowly grow to like them
>incompetence comes in surges because low HP weeds out baddies
>mfw I main eldar as a dark reaper now

Alright, boyos how much money have you guys dropped on this hobby since you first started? Include chinaforges and secondhand spending.

I started in December and I have spent about $500 so far.

I've been challenged to play my noob imperial fists against tempestus tomorrow.


What should I expect and how should I counter play?

It's a low point game, less than 1000. I'll have a heavy bolter scout squad, a tactical squad probably with a grav cannon, Pedro Kantor as warlord, then as many vets as I can fit in a pod points permitting

>>52780978
Yeah, about that much for me as well.

>>52780978
Oh god i dont even know like a couple k?

>>52780978
Maybe about 100 dollars per month since I started last april. So probably around 1200 USD. That's not so bad.

>>52780946
Here's the breakdown

Loyalist Marines
>Huge player base
>Biggest retard magnet
>Lots of toys
>Mediocre overall

Chaos Marines
>Sizable playerbase
>Decent players
>Shitty mark buffs/penalties
>Jack shit for variety of toys
>Lmao Abaddon's Grace

Eldar
>Dev favorite
>Best melee weapons
>Ridiculously quick
>What is hit registry?
>100% headshots
>Fags in grav tanks will use them to roadkill more than actually shoot the fucking guns

Orks
>Clunky unfinished shit
>Dakka is good
>Too good
>Why is Ork Dakka so good
>50% DR against headshots
>Literally half the model is a fucking head
>Awkward charge hitbox that can stun at any point with shitty collision detection

Other issues:
>Tanks are shit against tanks
>AT weapons are shit against tanks
>Melta weapons are too good against tanks from behind
>All shots against vehicles are useless, except from behind
>There is no good analog for basing balance
>Devs are dropping from the project every few months
>Devs suck Eldar dick like nobody's business
>Mods on forum main Eldar and close threads calling for nerfs to Eldar

It's a shitshow.

>>52780978
>started playing Sisters 10 years ago
>have 2000pts
>also have 2000pts of daemons
>also many unopened boxes of Deldar
>also 3 HH boxes with chinacast gubbins
>also 2 unopened knights

I ain't counting that shit, nigga.

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How do I play orkz
I'm actually asking, because I haven't the foggiest how it works in practise. Mind you I'm not going to play anywhere near waac or tournament levels. I just want an excuse to loot vehicles and have a stompa.

>>52780979
Tempestus is a page of shit that's already in the IG army. Basically it's a bunch of elites with s3 ap3 guns in a pretty nice dedicated transport. Expect IG with lower numbers but better gear by far, all infantry and transport. Tempestus literally has two units.

>>52780979
Tempestus Scions?

You're in pretty good shape if you just bring heavy bolters. Grav is useless against 4+ when you wound on 3s. Just drown them in shots.

You can expect getting plasma deep strikes or maybe some meltaguns.

I forget how many points it is to take Sternhammer Strike Force but take one of those practically barebones and you should be fine. Twin-linked Boltguns absolutely shit on light-medium infantry armies. Especially 'elite' armies like T3 4+ saves on MT Scions.

Should I always give my Scions melta guns? I'd rather take grenade launchers for reasons but it seems silly to give them no defense against armor without support that's probably tied up with something already

>>52780979
I'd drop grav if you're fighting scions and just add a heavy bolter. Much cheaper and does the job just as well. Plus, it's more Fisty

>>52781036

Sounds about right, though in don't get the eldar hate. They die to a stiff breeze. I hate fighting Orks more than I hate fighting eldar.

So as in previous thread: Null Rod

"Unit cannot be targeted by psychic powers"

How does this work with any Witchfire powers that use Beam or Nova? Does this target and/or does it nullify those powers? Where is there FAQ rules for it?

>>52781092
Easy, skip the unit that has the rod and resolve the power as normal.

>>52781054
Wait for 8th orkbro

>>52781092
You can't be affected by the effects of psychic powers. The end.

>>52781082
As a loyal Space marine, eldars are cancer. You may fire 1000 shots into them, but only 1-3 register

>>52781054
>>52780942
these two lists compared is comically sad

Anyone able to help me figure out what to put in a Fluffy Dark Angels army?

Thinking an attack bikes squadron, a group of Darkwing terms and a bunch of plasma tacts

New to this so HQs are a complete mystery to me

>>52781106

That's funny, I get 2 shot by stalker bolters, instagibbed by heavy bolters, and out gunned by normal bolters all the fucking time.

>>52781101
That's just it though. I was trying to get it through 3 people's heads saying "You cannot hit the unit at all, and if you have to pass the beam through them at all, you can't do it because that's affecting the unit."

Even if we just ignored the unit he could have still done things but he was pissing and moaning cause his shitloads of D Beams weren't enough to table me quickly or something. 26 warp dice and he said I should have tried my original list cause tailoring was what I was worried about, yet I did it. But I didn't ask his list beyond 'What army?" and he said "1k sons"

Magnus is not fucking 1k sons, its fucking Tzeentch Daemons. He didn't have a single fucking marine on the table besides Ahriman.

>>52780978
so far? it's hard to say, maybe a good grand or 2 over 12 years

>>52780893
so what? it's a special character so you're expected to splurge a little on characters.

>>52781165
I can promise that's it not a thing of me being bad, as the lowest rank I've gotten is rank 3. But eldars are almost impossible to hit unless they stand still. I usually have to engage in melee with banshees due to not being able to hit them with the gun.

>>52781175
>and if you have to pass the beam through them at all, you can't do it because that's affecting the unit.

I would argue that this isnt the case because the rod doesnt nullify powers, it makes the unit unaffected by them so in this case the beam would simply start at the unit behind the one with the Null Rod and you just ignore the unit with the Rod for the purpose of resolving powers.

>>52781165
Eldar would not be as big a problem if they didn't literally one-shot people with backstabs and have the best support class in the game.

They sincerely think that having buffed to fuck dps is fair even when they're the fastest faction. The argument is that they should have the better TTK to compensate for the low EHP but the whole faction is the most difficult to land damage on because of how shit the servers register detection.

I've been behind walls in full cover and got shot through it before.

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Facing a Warconvo lead by Cawl soon with my Tau. My friends and I only really play within our own group and it's a casual-competitive environment where there is some cheese, but not 36 scatbikes/riptide wing/Gravspam cheese. We like to run strong lists against each other but won't cry if I bust out the Stormsurge, or if the Eldar guy(who also owns the AdMech) whips out the Wraithknight and an Dire Avenger Shrine(that 30 shots per 10 dudes is nuts.)

I've got 2 lists prepared, one with Stormsurge because he said he didn't mind it, and one without the Stormsurge. I'm thinking the highest priority target will be Cawl.

Here's the first.

Repost from last thread:

Was thinking about pitching this for a narrative campaign. How many points should he cost? I was thinking 200-220.

Venerable Dreadnought Vetus
HQ Vehicle (walker, Character)

Stats: 12 12 10 S7 I5 A4 HP4

Wargear:
Assault Cannon
Dreadnought CCW w/ Heavy Flamer
Searchlight
Smoke Launchers
Extra Armor

Relic: Name TBD (Recieves a 5++, and IWND)

Warlord Trait: Name TBD (Upon killing an enemy model in the Assault Phase with his CCW, enemy unit suffers d3 Heavy Flamer hits)

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>>52781226
And here's the Stormsurge edition.

>>52781196
I make zero claims to be good, but I gun down eldar as csm/orks without much issue. It sounds like lag, which is a feature at this point.

>>52781231
>kill 4 models
>get 4-12 S5AP4 hits

that's broken af senpai. You're wounding on 3s or 2s against most units and killing anything that isn't a marine for free.

Why not copy over the stats from that Chaplain Dread? Give him his 4+ Rosarius and call it a day.

>>52781207

Me too, even as Eldar.

Also, don't only scorpions one hit with back stab?

>>52781276
No, all of their melee weapons barring the knife will OHKO on a strong-attack backstab.

EVERY SINGLE WEAPON has the damage of a Power Axe. The only difference is 4.5-9% damage between power/non-power variant. Meaning Scorps will lose 9% damage if the enemy has 120+ toughness, but lmao poison, get fucked nigger, you're dead anyway.

Poison in that game is retarded.

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>>52781092
I got the bit about Novas wrong, I hadn't read the wording of it in a long time and only remembered the bit about how it hits all units within range, but it does also targets those units as well. So the units are targeted, and therefore a unit with a null rod is unaffected by a Nova ability.

Beams do not target and select a point instead. Anything that is under that line is hit and ignores the Null Rod entirely.

>>52781175
While I sympathize with your gripes against a waac player, I think his interpretation of beams is correct. No where in the Null Rod does it state that the unit cannot be affected by psychic powers, just that they cannot be targeted. It's like a blast template that scatters and lands on an Invisible unit, they were not targeted, the blast just happened to scatter.

>>52781207
Everything I hear of this game just makes it sound remarkable of how hard of a time they're having balancing.

I mean, it's pretty obvious that Eldar should be fast, but aside from that they need to be a faction of flankers, snipers, and other tricky things that wither under any sort of direct firepower.

Giving them such high damage makes no sense when they're exclusively fighting Marines and Orks, who are both quite durable against basic shuriken guns.

If they had better servers, they could totally make Eldar the precision based class that needs to run in and unload a bunch of headshots with shuriken pistols to take out a marine, or carefully land direct rockets as a Dark Reaper for their only class that can remotely engage in an outright fight.

>>52781323
Here's my argument though.

You are attacking a unit that by definition of the item it carries, absorbs and nullifies psychic attacks/energy. It's clearly stated it cannot be targeted by any kind of psychic power.

Why do templates or beams ignore that? The beam, while it does target a point, has to be directed against a unit between point A and B. You resolve hits and wounds against the models under the beam. They should not be able to be targeted or affected.

In the case of invisibility, that's a different can of worms. Getting a really (un)lucky scatter gets around it.

>>52781331
I went into a hilarious tirade on the forums on why plasmaguns are whimpy as fuck and people bitched that everyone would use nothing but plasma if it could do heavy, reliable damage with no drawback.

Just as a comparison for raw numbers? DPS on a Bolter is better than a plasmagun. Full stop. Fucking. Stupid.

>>52781132
Hmmm

Don't take 100% plasma. Grab lascannons, missile launchers, or melta for AT. Missile launchers aren't super good at it, but if your opponent doesn't bring vehicles or goes for hordes or spams fliers, then they're worth it. Lascannons will rek big things. Melta will ruin the day of any vehicle.

For your HQ, you want a chaplain of any flavor, a Company Master, or Librarian, with them hanging out with their own command squad in order to maximize their specialness and go for the most killy option.

Very fluffy to take Ravenwing alongside Deathwing in any DA army.

>>52781261
How would you suggest adding haywire in instead of the flamer hits? That was my original idea but couldnt think of how to do it.

>>52781382
That's retarded. Not only the fact that it does less damage than a bolter, but that people weren't suggesting self-damage as a drawback to balance it. Not that it'd be good balance, but the fact that the idea didn't even occur to them is dumb.

Seriously, there have been how many shooters of this type over the years, and especially recently? It should not be hard to copy from those to get at least the basics.

>>52781179
Dude's 225 points though. That's not really splurging, for 190 you get dudes like He'stan who come with army-wide bonuses or Pedro Kantor with buffs to models near him. Vaylund is just a hard to kill pseudo-terminator.

>>52781397
>hey did my dread not one-shot your tank somehow
>k now it did
still bad.

just copy the chap dread and call it a day, don't forget to add the 2A it got when the game updated. Play it like 5E rules. "It's my special dude but he uses X character rules/profile."

Fucking hell I miss 5E over this shitstorm.

>>52781132
GRavenwing Bikes.

Just fucking do it and go lose all your friends.

>>52780757
List looks legal to me. As for feedback,
>Raptor Detachment
Looks fine to me. Might want to drop some points somewhere for Sniper Rifles on the one squad that doesn't have 'em, but I don't know your game plan here.
>Skitarii Maniple
Rangers are kinda shit compared to Vanguard, ESPECIALLY if you already have snipers in your list. Transuranic Arquebus is also pretty meh at 25 points a pop for how much of a coinflip it is. Also, you're better off running Skitarii troops in larger units since the Sergeants are more expensive than the base mooks.
Swap the Powerswords and Stubcarbines for the Tesla Bats and Ghetto Blasters on the Infiltrators. They CRUSH units through sheer number of high strength hits in melee and tickle enemies to death with swarms of angry hornets outside of it. Much more useful than AP3 melee and S4 shooting.
Dunecrawler and Dragoon look fine. Phosphor Serpenta on Dragoon is a decent buy. Gives them a shooting attack, allows them to reroll charge, allows them to act as a Markerlight for the rest of your army, and protects against Weapon Destroyed results.
>Cult Mech Allied Detachment
Kinda meh.
The Dominus is pretty nice, but he's a force multiplier at his core. Might not jive TOO well with your army. Can't say. I usually run him in the Dominus Maniple formation instead of anything else.
Kataphrons look fine. Plasma is kinda meh compared to the Grav, but it's still good.
Fulgerites are complete shit, drop 'em like hot trash.
Kastellens look fine. Are you planning on Outflanking them? You bought the Infoslave Skull on the Datasmith and the entire unit is Fearless due to having MCs in it.
Look into the Dominus Maniple and the Elimination Maniple. They might be up your alley.
>Callidus
breddy good
very fun unit

>>52781407
You can actually charge up and use the Plasmagun to fire little blasts and stun people.

Headshotting with a charged plasma blast that causes 40/100 overheat buildup and 5 or 10 ammo will still NOT kill anyone in one shot.

>>52781451
Do these people just not know what a plasmagun is? I mean, granted it would be annoying if it was just some charge mechanic that you could hold and ambush people with, but if it already has an overheat mechanic along with having ammo then there is a downside compared to a bolter already, except with no benefit.

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>>52781418
it's cheap compared to what i use but i get your point. why not give it a chance and change up your list?

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>>52781368
I get your point about an item that is suppose to be the bane of psykers, but as far as I can tell the beams will still hit them.

The 7thEd FAQ has this one section about beams and if a unit that can jink, is hit by a beam attack, can they jink. The answer is No, the models under the beam cannot jink because they were not targeted.

Assuming i'm not missing something about the Null Rod, sorry that you had to face a dick of an opponent who was cheesing you.

>>52781495
He was arguing that "his list wasn't optimized" and I tailored.

I was more thinking he was actually running 1k sons and I didn't run a cheese list to counter that, I remembered someone in the group chat (him) offering the DE player he was against a free extra 250 points cause he had Magnus.

Like, you say that, then talk that "oh its not optimized so bleh"? Get the fuck out of here.

And I would have killed Magnus if not for my Vindicare rolling 1/3/3 to wound in the 3 turns he got to shoot Magnus.

Are custodes good? What are they useful for?

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>>52780978
Somewhere in the 8,000 dollar range

Most of it went to Ebay though, fuck you GW for ruining muh orkz

>>52781122
One of those is probably the easiest list in the world to play and the other was built by a guy who doesn't know the first thing about playing competitively.

>>52781331
Eldar literally have zero sniping outside of a 4s charged shot that leaves you vulnerable because it is guided, but is also slow as balls.

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The idea is to saturate the enemy with different units that have more or less the same threat level, with the main damage dealers (Lord and Prince) being too fast to effectively intercept.

Thoughts?

>>52781606
That's actively stupid. If the Eldar should have anything, it's Rangers as the fragile sniper, Banshees as the fragile skirmisher, Scoprions as the stealthy melee/backstabber, Dark Reapers as the semi-durable firepower, and a Warlock/Farseer as a slower support unit that can give more damage/durability, but ties them up in protecting that one person with their fragile selves.

If you get caught in the open as an Eldar and aren't already landing headshots on the guy shooting you, you should be dead in short order.

>>52781637
So what army builder is this that people use

>>52781637
Looks like it would be painful to play against desu

>>52781644
Honestly, that's looks like the intention of the game, but everything is fucked, so that's not how it works.

>If you get caught in the open as an Eldar and aren't already landing headshots on the guy shooting you, you should be dead in short order.
That's basically how I feel when I'm not playing my Reaper, actually.

>>52781533
they fight good and deathstars

>>52781669
The one in the OP

>>52781637
It's such bullshit that zerkers don't have 2A by default

>Cyclopia Cabal with 5 Mastery 3 Sorcs with force sword/bolt pistol, sigil of corruption, and spell familiar
>The Long and the Damned with 5 cultist blocks, 4 fully kitted out, and one minimum for the apostle so he can keep within 6" off the 4 other squads at all times
>all sorcs rolling for invisibility
Yes or No

>>52781746
yeah that is fuggin weird

I mean my ork boyz have 2 base lel

>>52781740
I use battlescribe and its output doesn't look anything like that?

>>52781788
The one above it ya dingus

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Camouflage rhinos are cool

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>>52781637
This is alot better at doing essentially the same thing.

>never played 40k
>enjoy listbuilding
>picked up Tau codex back in 6th edition because I really like the caste system fluff and the idea of auxilliaries
>bought a couple models
>assembled, never painted them because RL made me scale back my hobbies
Should I still try and get into this if I don't know where I can go to play nearby and I have no idea how to properly paint minis? Collecting miniatures and making them look nice for display even if I only get to game with them rarely seems comfy.

Am I retarded for wanting to build a Tau/Guard army and fluffing it as Gue'vesa?

>>52781196
>>52781036

Nah, it's you being bad or lying.
I've played a ton against Eldar as Orks mostly but also with LSM and Chaos. It's not all that hard to hit Eldar. Try playing as them. I recently did. It isn't magic. Orcs will obliterate you super easy. Everything can kill you super easy.

Even with bad hit detection you have confined spaces you can easily kill them in. You will win trades with Eldar regularly because they will be so close their weapon accuracy/DPS doesn't save them from much lower HP/armor. When you're an Ork with 245 HP 140 Armor and 140 Toughness you just chase after Eldar and obliterate them and roll behind cover when you're low.

Capping as an Eldar is shit and there's no deathmatch. They don't have meaty dudes to bodyblock for them with shields.

Are they fun to play against? A lot of times they aren't, but that doesn't mean they're godly impossible to hit dudes.

You have to think of how much easier it is an Ork or a Nurgle Chaos dude to just roll sideways behind a wall.

So many times an Eldar will try to do it but he will die almost instantly and not make it.

>>52781917
First off you should try to find places to play.

Second of all, yes, displaying models is one of the best uses of them.

And Gue'vesa conversions look awesome.

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>>52781036
Space Spooks when

>>52782079
Never. The game will shut down in October, calling it now.


So guys, do you agree that Grounding Tests should be 4+ and/or taken on every unsaved wound rather than just one at the end of the phase?

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How's this for a starting army?

>>52782079
>you will never date a necrontyr qt

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>>52782025
Awesome my other question then is about the Gue'vesa rules in Imperial Armour vol. 3 - The Taros Campaign. Specifically, are they legal?

Also, are they any good?

>>52782146
What the fuck.

Why do Tau get cheaper guardsmen than actual fucking guardsmen? I'm triggered. I mean, big deal, you buy frags to get the same cost. Woop-de-fucking-do. I'd drop frags from my whole army to shave off 10 pts per squad and get another 100 bodies.

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>>52782117
You should try this instead

>>52782188
I already have Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle, I just want to collect an all plastic army on the side, and I want it to be "the bad guys"

>>52782175
Gue'vesa give any opposed imperium faction Preferred Enemy (Gue'vesa). Guardsmen actually have the option of being upgraded? Does that make it better? I don't play this game.

Anyone tried putting Guardmen / Marine bare-head on Tau Fire Warrior model? I'm thinking about a bit of Gue'vesa theme, but not sure if the head size gonna match body size or not.

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>>52782211
>orks
>bad guys

>>52782175
They also don't have laspistols meaning they can't shoot and charge.

You also can't take them outside of a campaign.

>>52782229
I mean
They kinda are
Have you read about the wars on armageddon?

>>52782218
God no, not unless you swap the feet. The bits are really small in comparison to guardsmen which are as tall as space marines in comparison so he'll have a bit of DK mode.
If you're going to do it, swap the feet and either get 3rd party heads or heat up your straight edge and make a clean cut horizontally above the lips or chin and give them "looted" fire warrior helmets.

>>52782256
Orks are like a 3-10 on the BBEG scale
Their plastics are shit too.

Asking my rules question again, as there was no reply last thread. I'm fairly sure I know the answer, but I wanted to be absolutely sure before I call someone out for bullshit.

So the question is: Can a unit of Deathwatch Veterans somehow equip Bolt Pistols?

>>52782020

So, I've been looking at Hawk shit. The Lasblaster is shit, but the sun rifle has WORSE stats in exchange for a blind, but costs the same as the hawk talon. Wtf am I missing here?

Has anyone been to Warhammer World? How was it? Is it worth going too?

I might be travelling to the UK soon and was curious if it was worth going to Warhammer World whilst I was there.

Does the Wrath of Magnus codex offer any different rules from the Traitor legion codex?

Anyone know a grey / white pen / marker that can be used to 'draw' recess shades / highlights on models?

Because I suck at brushing and drawing might give me a better chance at painting.

>>52780817
If in doubt: Consecrators
If you want to bikespam: Angels of Vigilance

>>52782293
high rate of fire

>>52782304
blue horrors, flamelings(?) and some daemon stuff

>>52782277
I guess their vehicles look dumb, but that's what looting is for. As for the infantry models, they look pretty cool.

>>52782281
I don't believe so. Pretty sure that's for the HQ units and Jump pack guys

>>52782244
Base guardsman don't have laspistol either.

>>52780978
about... 2k I guess.
Over 12 years
Lotta trades and second hand deals though.
Only army I bought brand new was my Deathwatch, and they got about 2 games before I lost all interest.

>>52782325
This was what I figured. I own and run a bit of Deathwatch, but not commonly, as I haven't painted much of it. And I was playing in a 3v3 game with a Deathwatch player on my team. He said something like "the remaining Veterans are going to fire their bolt pistols." Without looking up, I said, "Veterans don't have bolt pistols." He said they did. I said, "No, not on their profiles." He opened up his codex and read some line about veterans having the option to exchange their boltguns for a bolt pistol and close combat weapon. I have scoured my codex and come to the conclusion that he was bullshitting. Even after being called on it.

>>52782320
I see, so if I were to implement demons into my army. Gotcha.

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So I'm working on this right now for my Iron Hands. The meta is pretty MEQ and vehicle heavy. Might see a knight or two, but I don't have much experience fighting them so I don't know what it takes to counter one. I probably need more AT for fighting those, but maybe my chainfist cataphractii can suicide into them.

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>>52781533
>>52781706
Sounds good then.
I have been putting together a Tau list as a newb but want to ally in everything that looks cool and I wanna paint

Maybe I'll add in Necrons after this too

>>52782117

Well it depends how you want to look at it.

From a modeling and fun perspective, looks fine. I'm sure you have some idea for the Looted Wagons for conversions, and painting Boyz is a great way to perfect your techniques for painting Orks. Personally I'd go for Kromlech meganobz but it's personal preference.

From a competitiveness perspective, it's pretty poor. Boyz are dreadful, doubly so when they're shoved into deathboxes. If you're footslogging those mobs, forget it; they'll never achieve anything other than holding an objective, and Grots do that job better.

Taking the Finking Kap on your Mek means he has to be the Warlord, which in turn means your army doesn't get WAAAAGH, though given your only assault forces are Meganobz that can't benefit from it anyway, it's not a huge loss. The Mek is a pretty big points sink too; frankly I don't think conveying a 5++ save to a Battlewagon and generating an extra Warlord trait is worth the 95 point investment.

Lootas are always good. Small unit but no big issues there.

Grot unit should be minimum size. More Grots means effectively nothing. Break it into 2 units.

The Looted Wagons are cheap, but bear in mind we're in an edition where no-one takes standard Leman Russes because a Battlecannon, which is just a straight up better version of a Killkannon, is garbage this edition. You're fielding tissue-paper vehicles that have to expose themselves to shoot and 1/6th of the time they don't shoot.

>>52782320
The sun rifle had the same Rate of fire as the blaster with less damage and more recoil.

>>52782412

All that being said, analyzing Orks from a competitive standpoint is largely pointless, because it always boils down to, did you take the following:

- MANZ
- Lootas
- Biker Boyz
- Tankbustas
- Mek Gunz
- Buggies

Aside from the occasional dedicated transport or HQ choice, there's nothing else actually worth considering. So with that in mind, do what I do: play Orks for the fun of modeling, because if you try and field something competitive, it will look the same as every other Ork competitive list and won't actually be that effective.

>>52782412
I guess, we have a local Ork player who uses trukks with good success and his charging boyz are pretty fierce.
Well, at least against my Guard equivalents. I haven't paid attention to how he does against MEQs.

>>52782351
Yeah, that was BS. Vets have Boltguns and CC weapons standard, and can swap each for a lot of things, but pistols aren't one of them. If he wants the extra attacks, he gets no ranged weapons.

>>52782451
Well their Forgeworld rules are decent, though 2 edition out of date...

>>52782484

Is this a balance thing? I'm not sure if Deathwatch with bolt pistols as standard would be breaking the game or running roughshod over other the tournament scene.

>Grimaldus gives Zealot to Dreadnoughts

Cool shit! Angry robo-crusaders go !

>>52782509
It probably wouldn't. Frag cannons would be better anyway. All Bolt Pistols would do would be making assault troops a more viable option for them without loading up on power weapons while retaining some actual ranged threat.

>>52782509
>Is this a balance thing?
Not particularly, they never used pistols.

>>52782451
> he missed out mega meks
letting your heavy units (inc mek guns) move is very useful, plus the 5++ is the only invun around

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>>52782451
>>52782412
Ah well fuck it then. I'll see what I can be bothered to loot up.

>>52782542
Man I'd love 2x specialist ammo BP Vanguard vets.

So I have 4 Knights. How many renegade/chaos knights can I field without being a cunt at 1500 and 1850.

I play against Sisters, GK, Eldar, Dark Eldar, homosuper combo eldar and Tau.

>>52782619
1 at 1500, 2 at 1850

>>52782619
One. Maybe two if you warn your opponent beforehand.

>>52782655
>>52782657
So basically unless my opponent goes full netlist I never should.

Seems like the best combo then is to go for a forgeworld chaos knight with daemon/csm assistance

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Hey anons, I'm new to DA and 40k, I have a couple questions.

For my Devastator squad, would giving them Missile Launchers be a good idea? It'd both save money since I would already have two from my tac squads, and I think missile launchers seem pretty good, or no? Then again, plasma cannons seem like they'd be a lot of fun too.

And for my tac squads, what heavy weapon should I give them? I'm going to give one guy a Plasma Gun, but I don't know what to give the second guy.

>>52782598
Here's my hard earned experience.

PK nobs in shoota squads is a waste, whether in melee or at range one will be wasted.

Slugga boys should be in tranport sized chunks

Meganobs can't overwatch so you'll only ever use your skorchas to make it harder for yourself to charge an enemy.

Battewaggons are a bit of a waste on meganobs, you only use half the capacity, also 4 rokkits and a kannon is practically the same price as the large blast Killkannon.

>>52782685
Missile launchers are a "jack of all traits, balls at getting actual work done" weapon.

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>>52781054
I run this, because I enjoy nothing more than taking giant kits (wraithknights, stormsurges, knights) and making them orkey. Let me tell you something, NOBODY expects that much armor. Literally just shit over tau the other day, pretty optamized list too. what little firepower I had went into removing the 4 units of jinking marker light drones, then it was all punch/kick to death.

>>52782685
For devastators, lascannon or plasma cannon are both fine. Lascannon preferred unless you're already saturated with anti tank.

For tac squads, heavy weapons aren't really worth it other than grav cannons. Even if you combat squad, you've still got close to 90 points of marines sitting somewhere firing one heavy weapon and 4 bolter marines that probably aren't doing anything.

Get a 5-man scout squad with a missile launcher and bolters, or sniper rifles and a heavy bolter, if you want something sitting on an objective imo.

>>52781054
Step 1: read the codex properly and get a legal list.

>>52782711
Sucks that the Dred mob can't bring a Stompa, and that the Dok is useless.

>>52782738
That list is legal though.

>>52782738
Oh shit I forgot you gotta have 20 boyz for two shootas. I was just thinking of making enough space in there for the characters.

>>52782745
No, Boyz need a full 10 orks per heavy weapon.

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>>52782322
>I guess their vehicles look dumb

>>52782756
Oh, you're right, I didn't notice that.

>>52782688
>PK nobs in shoota squads is a waste, whether in melee or at range one will be wasted.
But the purpose of all orks is to get in melee eventually
>>52782688
>Slugga boys should be in tranport sized chunks
Okay, I'll just change something around
>>52782688
>Meganobs can't overwatch so you'll only ever use your skorchas to make it harder for yourself to charge an enemy.
Okay then
>Battewaggons are a bit of a waste on meganobs, you only use half the capacity, also 4 rokkits and a kannon is practically the same price as the large blast Killkannon.
But you can only take Battlewagon as a dedicated transport for nobz or meganobz, and my Heavy Support was used up
Also I've been told you never ever want to take a Killkannon on the wagon.
>>52782768
I never liked the modern truck look.

>>52781532
You literally admitted to subbing in a Culexus. You did tailor.

>>52782709
Really? They seem pretty useful since they can be blasts or S8 shots, and since the shots aren't blasts they can also defend themselves at BS2 if they get charged.

>>52782734
Lascannons do seem pretty good, yeah. I haven't written up a list yet, but I do actually have the Sniper and Bolter Scout sprues, I thought of building them as Bolters with HBolter, but that loadout makes sense too.

Yeah, after reading up Heavy weapon rules, I think I kight just do 10 dudes in a Rhino with Plasma Gun and maybe a Combi-plasma on the Sergeant.

>>52782845
>Really? They seem pretty useful since they can be blasts or S8 shots
That's the trap, in 40k versatile means "equally awful", only ever worth it in massed amounts and/or at dumping price.

>>52782845
An S8 AP3 missile is very limited in what it can do though. It's not a true anti tank weapon because it can only glance av14. It can't kill 2+ armor dudes. It's good for AV 12 vehicles, 3+ armor MCs, or instant deathing 3+ armor T4 models like tyranid warriors.

The S4 AP6 blast isn't that fantastic either. It doesn't actually do much more than a rapid fire bolter, it just has a much longer range. But using that range means you're not using the 4 other bolters with the missile launcher.

>>52782845
>they can also defend themselves at BS2 if they get charged.

You can't fire snap shots with blast weapons, so no using them for overwatch.

Generally, Missile Launchers are just a bit too pricey for their versatility. That said, they'll probably be fine for a more casual list, especially since you probably won't be constantly swapping out between heavy weapons for if you need anti-tank or anti-horde.

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>For a long time, people bitched at Abaddon for not getting ground out of the Eye
>mfw nearly all the areas that the Imperials defended from Abaddon's crusades have now sunken into the Warp as the Eye expands into Imperial space
>The Eye has reached as far as the Gothic Sector and it won't stop

Is this karma for all the memes? What a time to be alive. We will see the Imperium fall in our lifetimes. You hyped, /tg/?

But after the Imperium what comes next?

>>52782961
>implying Failbaddon the Armless won't cuck even this crusade up

>>52782950
You can snap shot the krak.

>>52782845
They're only really useful against nids and orkz who have both multi wound T4 and hordes to make use of both profiles against.

>>52782950
>Generally, Missile Launchers are just a bit too pricey for their versatility
So, should they be cheaper, OR 20 points with Flakk as default?

>>52782999
more like 15 points with Flakk as default.

>>52781175
>Magnus is not fucking 1k sons, its

im pretty sure it says thousand sons on his box.

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>>52782981
Abaddon said it.
The Eye will either take him to Terra or sunder the galaxy forever. Either way, it ends. Either way, the Chaos Gods will get their due.

And according to the fluff, whether in salvation or damnation, the Imperium will end. So what's after? The Tau of course. It's their time to inherent the galaxy as did humanity from the Eldar, and the Eldar from the Necrons before them.

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Would you guys even play a 40K that's centered around the Tau with the Imperials taking on the role of the Eldar in the setting?

>>52783090
fuck no

>>52782229
They are bad.

>>52783120
Why tho?

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Word Barers + Death Guard

This lets me run 1 Nurgle power and 3 Malific to boost the Chaos Knight / Summon.

Rest of the army is pretty standard.

Thoughts?

>>52783121
Who isn't in 40k really?

>>52783063
The Eye will take him to Terra to get bitchslapped into submission by the Spiritual Liege, who will then inhale the whole eye and the Imperium will reign supreme.

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Wrong pic, lets retry

ALRIGHT
Check out this mosaic of cool dudes
Viable? Legal? Fun?

>>52783150
fluff breaking gay shit. Go fuck yourself yes really no autism

>>52783150

is this bait?

>>52783158
>>52783164

>No putting together armies from the models you like, bought, and painted reeeeee

>>52783090
ate eldar just gone?

if so yes.

>>52783090
Are you just pretending to be retarded?

>>52783173

>not playing fluffy

>>52783090
That isn't 40k anymore so GW goes under, everyone loses.

Are people like you just born dumb?

>>52783246
>That isn't 40k anymore

In the same way that AoS isn't WHFB anymore. AoS is still trucking on okay.

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>>52783090
Sure
>continue to play daemons regardless
>just like I can play the same daemon models in 30k
>and AoS
>and Fantasy
Daemon master race.

>>52783263
Yea WHFB which was less than 10%... real good comparison there mate, remember to put the cap back on that plastic glue more often, maybe a fan with a open window.

>>52783263
Except the difference between the importance of 40k's lore in selling models is like night and day compared to WHFB and AoS.

>>52783246
dumb imperium player

>>52783281
>Yea WHFB which was less than 10%

proof-chicken.jpeg

>>52783282
WHFB lore is actually a huge draw for the setting. I mean look how popular Warhammer : Total War is.

>>52783209
You can always invent a back story

>>52783300
Yes, I mean people who were into it know that WHFB's lore is the best thing about the game and AoS is a monster for destroying all of it, but if you ask your local johnny "what is 40k" they'll think of Space Marines first. 40k Sells because of the Imperium of Man, that's just fact.

so lets say i want to get into this or battlefleet gothic, but there's no way in hell im going to pay for all these miniatures and ships. i still want them though, so i have a plan. i'm going to buy some i like with cheap shipping, take it to a 3d scanner, and then print it because i have access to a 3d printer on my campus, then get a refund on the original. rinse and repeat with prepaid cards and amazon po boxes.

my question is, just how detailed are these pieces anyway? is 3d-scanning even going to work on that level of detail? i can imagine that laser scanning it would be crazy ezpensive but probably more accurate. i wouldnt mind a one time fee for some of the more expensive models that i need a lot of to scan, as long as i get the file and can print them over and over. i might even make a profit if i sell them on the cheap.

would 3d scanners and printers be accurate enough for these tiny detailed models?

>>52783320
>local johnny "what is 40k" they'll think of Space Marines first. 40k Sells because of the Imperium of Man, that's just fact.

Marinefag please.

>>52783334
Yeah, anon forgot to mention the IG underdog cocksuckers

>>52783334
They're the face of the game, just face it. I don't even collect marines anymore, because I find my "realistic" Guardsmen much more fun than brightly coloured super-soldiers.

>>52783300
WHFB was great place for stories to be told, not for models to be sold.

So they were swept out and AoS came to be. With new rules, new books, and new models. The WHFB setting will remain and be sold off as vidya game fodder because it is more recognizable than AoS.

I'll never get that ending for Gotrek and Felix.

>>52783304

then please tell me the backstory of this list.

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>>52783334
git gud scrub, come back when you have a 20k product line about xenos before the Imperium.

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So I was thinking about working towards a list something like this. Going to start by buying Cawl and two of the start collecting skitarii boxes. Not interested in war convocation.

>>52783332
depends on the quality of the scanner and printer. Cheap or simple ones won't cut it. what do youbave access to?

besides that you're scam won't work, BFG minis only exist on the second hand market. You won't be getting refunds.


that aside what factions do you want?
pretty much everyone bar imperial/ chaos can be converted from their 40k kits easily and cheaply enough. For imperial and chaos ships there's a decent selection on shapeways (but pricey because 3d printed) and a few 3rd parties that do resin not-40k ships. If you don't mind ditching the gothic aesthetic theres heaps of cheap 3rd party options.

>>52783388
unlikely allies because fuck chaos/orks/tyranids.

>>52782277
sure, they're not the MOST bad guys, but they are bad guys.

>>52781637
Do the Dinobots get the free move At the start of the game? If they don't you should consider throwing a Raptor Talon as your auxiliary.
Aside from that, you should consider a spawn or two to squad with your Chaos Lord.

>>52782188
>Primarch whose whole deal is that he hits things really hard in melee and buffs your whole army.
>Take him without an army
>Enemy takes Magnus and squawks around him blasting Gaze of Magnus until Rowboat keels over and becomes chaos spawn.

>>52783388
Hmm....

After 10k years of boredom the Custards have gone senile and rogue. Allying with other things that are also yellow/orange or remind them of the emperor (dead zombie)
Alternatively, necron and tau uncovered a magic ancient artefact that mind controls anything, even custards

Fun and not hard

>>52783334
>if I call him a marinefag that means I win
But he's right. It's not the Eldar stuck on the cover of Rogue Trader.

According to the Hand of Darkness, the Death Guard are now assaulting Ultramar's world.

I have no idea why.

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>>52783146
>tfw Spiritual Leige and Doomrider have a Snorting contest for the fate of the galaxy
>Whoever can snort 100,000 Eldar souls the fastest wins
>Spiritual Leige wins
>Gets up from his chair
>Looks down at his body
>Now he's a daemonette
>Tzeentch and Slaanesh share a brandy and chuckle heartily.

>>52783413
I've got access to a makerbot printer of some sort on my campus, i dont know about the scanner though. ill have to drive around to a workshop or something.

sucks about the refund thing. i saw a few on ebay that had refunds, so i figured it was worth a shot.

mostly i'd like the necrons but there are some cool imperial cruisers too, like the small lightning class ship.

i was considering a one-time purchase for some of the more flashy looking ones on shapeway and just scanning them, then selling the scans on craigslist or to a game shop for a fraction of the price.

personally i really like the gothic style, but for the necrons specifically they dont really have that style anyway, so that would be my first priority.

>>52783394
that list is weak anon

>>52783450
because fuck the ultramarines? Morty got word of Rowboat being back? Lorgar is planning to burn Ultramar in the same vein as Monarchia was burned and convinced the DG to join him? Who knows.

>>52783510
Could you elaborate? I'm interested in playing skitarii and cult mechanicus but don't know exactly what to get other than the get starting boxes.

>>52783510
Its actually a solid list that looks fun, he's got some good stuff in there. It won't stand up to a War Convocation, Centstar, or a hardcore Ynnari list; but its solid for fun,

>>52783394
go for it.

>>52783090
Probably not, I mean by that point you're missing out on a large amount of themes that made 40k what it was once upon a time. I'm sure some people wouldn't mind it, but I'd probably just drop the game and/or go the way of /whfbg/.

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So, now that Ynnari exists, and in AoS Slaanesh is already indisposed, are GW really gonna kill off Slaanesh in 40k?

Missile launchers are essential because they're the only anti-air marines have without flyers, allies, fortifications and other modern shit.

OH SHIIIIIIIT.

-Grefax got her hands of the Eye of Darkness.
-Moriana is best grandma
-Horst is forever undead

-Morty is sending his legion to besiege Ultramar and is creating a plague that will end all plagues and all life in the galaxy
-Yvarine is sassy to Girlyman
-Eldrad is polite
-Next time we gonna meet the Guardians of the Black Library and know what they are.

So much lore. So much story advancing.

>>52783524
Drop the Trans. Aub rifles from the rangers, make them go Haywire or take Infiltrators instead.

Drop the Eradication Beams and go for the Str 10 AP 1 blast weapon.

Honestly I would drop the Balistarii just because of 50 bucks for each model. You could drop those the Rangers and Vanguard, take 2 5-man troops instead; bring in a Knight, which is a pretty fun kit to model and play with.

The Allied Detachment is fine.

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>>52783491
a makerbot? thats going to push it. It'll probably give you acceptable but noticably lower quality.
ebay refunds are pretty much always only for defective or damaged goods in my experience. Plus you won't get any of the postage refunded either.

necrons are one of the easy ones to do from their plastic bits, pic related for example (not mine). You could probably manage a squadron of light cruisers and a squadron of escorts from a single lycheguard kit.

>>52783575
So why does the newer stuff not count?

>>52783590
actually i was thinking more along the lines of the flat crescent necrons. i didnt think i'd get any percision with that makerbot on any of the gothic looking pieces anyway. not that familiar with their terms yet, im still learning.

any good alternatives to GW's texture paints? That is, any other paints that would mimic the texture paints?

>>52782379

Absolute heresy, would not play against

>>52783150
10/10 actual walking target practice for my Castellax and Thanatar.

>>52783437
You obviously didn't look very hard at the picture.

>>52783447
And yet still gay

>>52783620
true the cresent necrons probably are the most 3d printer friendly ones to do. they're already flat and layers so the quality loss won't be as noticable.
With them I'd actually consider making the 3d files yourself, really they're just simple geometric shapes stacked up. It would be easy, if tedious to replicate it yourself.

if you want to preserve the gothic detailing for imperial stuff looking into resin recasting is probably the more feasible route. since it sounds like you don't have acces to the high end laser sintering machines youd need to 3d print that level of detailing cleanly.

>>52783646
>Tau and Crons
>30k
Then again the list has Custodes within 10 feet of xenos without murderfucking them so why not.

Ally in some daemons and Grey Knights and have a party.

>>52783661
yeah, i could give it a shot. maybe improvise and make some customs too. you sure about the casting? there would be a lot of small little bits where the resin might just get ripped off when removing the original. and yeah, i dont think the campus has those and the ipad app is probably not going to cut it either. services are like 100's of dollars, but thats professional engineering/industry type of stuff, not for hobbyist.

>>52783696
Ally in Alpha Legion cause they're cool

>>52783696
>30k

Though it's true enough that I make a point of asking my opponents every game if using 30k Cybernetica is okay, they're still about, just rare (which is why I never field more than 3 units in a 40k game, always outnumbered by their CultMech/Skitarii allies).

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Any help? I have no clue what I'm doing. Picked a lot of models because I liked the designs or I already had them, also pretend the strike teams are 12 man troops of the Gue'vesa here: >>52782146

>>52783715
Oh yeah, then have them turn and join the Custodes because they were loyalists all along.

>>52783722
You need some vehicles when upping up to the standard 1850, Hammerheads and Devilfish are cool, and neither can really be considered even remotely cheesy or OP.

>>52783524
>>52783394
This is just better. >>52780942

Cawl makes a shitty warlord with his forced traits, you don't get preferred enemy because you don't have a Vanguard Alpha warlord, rangers are a meme, 3 dunecrawlers (that should always take the extra heavy stubber) in a unit is too much of an investment on 1 target that kataphron could easily dispatch, balistarii are just worse than dragoons, 6 destroyers is TOO many. They have salvo weapons meaning they get WAY more shots than their profile suggests and without target saturation or ability to target more than 1 unit at a time with the best unit you have it's pretty ill advised. Robots are too many points for outside of their formation.

>>52783722
If you want to use fire warriors pull out some of the PFs and add more to you Strike Teams.

>>52783739
>standard 1850
Last time I tried to get into this it looked like the standard was 1500. Good to know it's changed.
>Hammerheads and Devilfish
Really don't like the design on these. Is there any way to get around using them?

>>52783739
1,500 or 2,000 is standard
1,850 just sounds stupid

>>52783733
Exactly
Now we're fluffy again cause obviously omeg will become loyal and the traitor will be... Russ

>>52783756
I was actually thinking Leman Russ would return from his warp-venture, see his chapter devastated and give in to Khorne, but then Khorne already has two of the murder-fuckiest characters in the Lore and I'm not sure if Russ would fit in there.

>>52783707
>there would be a lot of small little bits where the resin might just get ripped off when removing the original
the originals you're using were cast to. Use a dedicated molding silicon and it'll be fine.

>>52783754
2000 was when you get to broken bullshit levels of double CAD which is why 1850 (1750 in EU) was implemented.

>>52783769
i could give it a go. never tried it before. thanks for the tips mate, ill get back to you guys with the model of the printer and scanner if it exists after class tomorrow.

>>52783750
I don't want to use fire warriors. 90% of the reason I picked Tau was the fluff appeal of auxilliaries. Tau-looking IG models "counts as" fire warriors would be fine with me, but I also like how cheap the bodies are on Gue'vesa. More dudes = more fun.

>>52783756
>Russ
>Not Zombie Dorn
Do you forge the narrative?

>>52783616
Because it sucks.

>>52783781
So take some auxiliaries then instead of running straight Tau.

>>52783795
So do flakk missiles.

>>52783796
>>>52783722
>pretend the strike teams are 12 man troops of the Gue'vesa here
I couldn't find the Gue'vesa in the roster creator in OP. They're forge world, which I was told is legal?

>>52783767
Russ joins anyway cause fuck magnus and psykers

>>52783843
>Trinity of Khorne
>Kharn, Angron and Leman Russ

>>52783873
Angron, Kharn and then a beserker lord on a pimped out bloodcrusher

>>52783582
>Guardians of the black library
neckbeards, then

>>52783873
>>52783891
Russ and Fenris's magics are literally the banwe of Khorne. Quit it. It doesn't fit.

>>52783843
Russ doesn't hate magic. He hates sorcery. His shamans draw upon the pure primal energies of Fenris's wolf spirit.

>>52783913
>His shamans draw upon the pure primal energies of Fenris's wolf spirit.
that is the most mary sue shit though

>>52783917
Not anymore than the Ynnari inventing death magic which is anathema to Chaos.

>>52783913
I admit I haven't read shit about what goes on in Horus Hearsay (except how the Death Guard were turned and the trial of Magnus) but I do know that A) Leman Russ hates magic, and was against the librarian program of the Legions so yes, he was against all kinds of magic
B) The Space Wolves view themselves as honourable warriors, the feeding stock of Khorne and C) Most of their chapter was apparently devastated when Magnus the Red fucked up Fenris, which already led to some Space Wolves going renegade, and could easily drive others to Khorne worship in a desperate move to save their chapter.

>>52783939
>>52783917
alright then, they're both mary sue shit, doesn't make that fucking wolf magic copout any less shitty

>>52783939
I thought we all agreed that Eldar are shit and will forever be shit and the Ynnari only made them more shit.
Optionally replace "shit" with "mary sue"

>>52783947
Russ hated magic, but said that his librarians weren't using magic, they were using 'Wolf spirits' or some other gay shit. So he was a massive hypocrite.

As for your point about the renegade space wolves, I can really see that happening actually, Svane Wulfbad is a famous example of wolves turning to Khorne, and i'd imagine, after the Wulfen returned, the wolves all heard the stories about how they fought in the warp against chaos for years, so after Fenris, it's likely some wolves would've gone seek the warp and kill more Tsons and follow the path of the Wulfen, etc, until they realised emotions work magic in the warp and their anger would turn them to Khorne.

>>52783947
>Leman Russ hates magic

He doesn't. He hates sorcery which Librarians and the Thousand Sons use. Do you see him smacking his Rune Priests around for their bone reading and summoning of elemental power?

>The Space Wolves view themselves as honourable warriors, the feeding stock of Khorne

Not really. The Space Wolves love to fight dirty, Their purpose was fighting dirty wars.

>Most of their chapter was apparently devastated when Magnus the Red fucked up Fenris,

There is plenty of them around. Enough to form a grand fleet and go to Cadia.

>hich already led to some Space Wolves going renegade

Outright lie. Who are trying to lie to here? Youy think me some /v/ degenerate? Stop before you embarrass yourself further.

>and could easily drive others to Khorne worship in a desperate move to save their chapter.

Except it won't. The Space Wolves have a prophecy about Russ return. When the chapter comes close to dying, Russ will return to lead them against the forces of Darkness in the Wolf Time. This prophecy was vindicated in Wrath of Magnus when the specter of Russ appeared to Logan to guide him and appear him for what's to come.

>>52783756
I'm still betting guilliman becoems the traitor. but not to chaos. Just a division in the imperium thing.

>>52784013
>The Space Wolves love to fight dirty, Their purpose was fighting dirty wars.
Khorne doesn't really make the distinction there desu, he just likes it when the blood flows.

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So like what is the deal with summoning Daemons in 40k? It seems that all sources point towards daemons having a limited time in realspace after being summoned regardless of what happens- but then the rituals required to summon the daemon seem to far exceed any real cost. For instance, in the Black Crusade books it takes half a dozen or more sacrifices to summon a basic lesser demon- and I think that demon only sticks around for a few hours. Whats the point even? Id rather have half a dozen slaves than talk to a demon for a few hours.

And what about on the tabletop? It seems that heralds and greater demons only need a single sacrifice- is Black Crusade wrong or is the tabletop wrong? Or, does it take more to summon a lesser demon than a greater? It also begs the question that if demons time in realspace is fleeting and a few hours perhaps a day at longest, and it takes multiple sacrifices to summon a single daemon, does that mean my forces were sacrificing hundreds of people before I play a tabletop game?

It all just seems inconsistent, and my question really boils down to: What does it take to summon a daemon in 40k? How long does the daemon last in realspace? What situations would actually warrant a demonic summoning?

>>52783977
>>52783985
>Eldar have their special form of magic (Ynnead magic)
>Tyranid have their own magic (Hivemind magic)
>Tau have their form of magic (The Ethereal invocation of elements)
>Necrons have their form of magic (C'tan space magic)

SPACE WOOFS ARE MARY SUES FOR HAVING THEIR MAGIC DUUURRR

Seriously guys. Thus hypocrisy is beneath you.

>>52784017

Guilliman starts working together with eldar but you can't undo millennium of conditioning and imperium breaks down to "lets kill most of the xenos" and "lets kill all the xenos" factions.

>>52784013
>Outright lie. Who are trying to lie to here? Youy think me some /v/ degenerate? Stop before you embarrass yourself further.
Renegade Space Wolves were listed as a component of the chaos invasion to either Cadia or Armageddon or somewhere, I'm like 101% certain.
I didn't know Russ appeared for Logan though. I guess that means he isn't the traitor if there is even gonna be one.
>>52784037
Tau have a Psyker phase now?

>>52784037
They're mary sues because "HURR DURR IT'S NOT MAGIC, IT LOOKS LIKE MAGIC AND DOES THE SAME STUFF AS MAGIC AND DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS LIKE MAGIC BUT IT'S NOT MAGIC YOU GUYS, IT'S WICCA"

That shit right there is why.

>>52784049
the IoM/Eldar Alliance won't last beyond defeating this Black Crusade unless the setting grinds to a halt during the new Siege of Terra.

>>52784049
Are there subfactions of the Ordo Xenos that believes in working with the Xenos, kinda like how the Ordo Malleus has radical inquisitors that use daemonhosts.

>>52784077
>Siege of Terra
that'll be our End times, except it will never end.

>>52784060
>Renegade Space Wolves were listed as a component of the chaos invasion to either Cadia or Armageddon or somewhere, I'm like 101% certain.

These guys didn't abandon their chapter because it was dying. On the contrary, when they rebelled their chapter was at its strongest.

They rebelled because of their own ambition which is literally why most renegades are formed.

> chaos invasion to either Cadia or Armageddon or somewhere, I'm like 101% certain.

Stop with the lies.

>Tau have a Psyker phase now?

Ethereals in game can invoke one of the elements that symbolize the castes of their species. Earth, fire, water, or air. This buffs the Tau with the invoked element.

That's magical since there is no explanation for it in the setting.

>>52784068
Nope, when everyone is mary sue then none is mary sue.

>>52784108
I just drew conclusions from seeing "Renegade Space Wolves" in the list of combatants right after reading about Magnus apparently devastating Fenris.

>>52783722
If you really want an anti-air crisis seperate him to a single suit team and change the CIBs to missile pods. Your list doesn't really utilize the recon drone. 3 man stealth team isn't that impactful and your pathfinder team won't be in position in time for precision deep strike crisis team. You could give the other pathfinder team special weapons, give the recon drone team a devilfish or just remove the recon drone.
You could and should break up one of the pathfinder teams into two smaller ones. This way you have more flexibility on your markings. You could also tone down the upgrades on stealth suits and give the stealth shas'vre drones instead. When you begin to expand your army, get more heavy hitters as right now your whole army hangs on that crisis team. Hammerheads/sky rays are nice, another crisis team or a broadside team too and if your game group isn't full of crybabies you could consider one of the bigger suits.

>>52784034
>in the Black Crusade books it takes half a dozen or more sacrifices to summon a basic lesser demon- and I think that demon only sticks around for a few hours
The Black Crusade summoning rituals are pretty wonky. They all require fairly specific circumstances, require multiple hard tests, and then only summon the daemons for a handful of rounds (default for lessers is 1d5+5). The DM can, with discretion, allow them to be summoned for specific tasks, in which case they last as long as the task needs. Some of the individual rituals are just retarded. Summoning a Disc of Tzeentch requires a Mastery Test every couple days AND any time i takes damage, which means that it will almost assuredly break free if you try to keep one for any reasonable length of time.

For my campaign, I let the diabolist-type character front-load his summonings so that he could finish them DnD wizard style mid-combat for allies.

For lore examples of summoning, it happens a fair amount in the Ahriman series.

>>52784037
Ynnead magic is stupid.

Tyranids in most depictions are using the Warp, they just have the Shadow to counteract malignant Chaos shit.

Tau don't have magic at all and invocations of the elements were a stupid idea to make Ethereals less of a stupid choice.

Necrons don't have magic either, and C'tan being wonky has been a thing forever.

>>52784108
>Ethereals in game can invoke one of the elements that symbolize the castes of their species. Earth, fire, water, or air. This buffs the Tau with the invoked element.

>That's magical since there is no explanation for it in the setting.

I've believed it was just the ethereals improving the moral of the troops, pushing them to the absolute limit. I mean you might as well say that comissars use commanding magic when they shoot one dude from the squad the rest of them becomes brave as space marine.

>>52784117
>space wolves
>tau
>necron
>elar
>tyranids
>everyone
there's a bit of a gap there

>>52784108
>no explanation for it
the ethereals literally use pheromone based mind control, that's the explanation for it.

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>>52784183
I don't think. The Ethereals can literally control in what way their people are affected by their powers.

Tau warriors can gain speed, ignore crippling pain, become more focused, etc by just having the ethereal call upon one of the elemental powers. Skilled Ethereals can invoke two elements at once.

>>52784155
>Necrons don't have magic either,

They know the future by reading the movement of the stars.

A crypteks chant words of power before casting their powers. It's definitely magic.

Orks and Nids aren't mary sue, because they are actually shit

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>>52784255
It's c'tan magic. The whole "tiny soul", chaos ignoring them and the tau as a whole punching way above their weight class is thanks to their c'tan benefactors.

>>52784299
The C'tan are dead.

>>52781637
What game is this?

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>>52781829
Oh there are rhinos there? I couldn't see them due to such great camouflage.

>>52784309
For beings that literally transcends time and space death must be just a mere annoyance

>>52784193
You're forgetting one.

Blood angels also get their own unique psychic power pool and their psykers are way more standard than space wolf psykers.

That said, warzone Fenris confirmed that their 'psychic' powers came directly from the great wolf spirits of Fenris and not from the warp. That's a bit... different.
Not that it matters much not Fenris has been devoured by the eye of terror.

>>52783582
Wait where was this?

>>52784438
http://www.blacklibrary.com/audio/featured/eye-of-knight-mp3-part1.html

>>52782379
"Any model not equipped with a guardian spear may take a storm shield"

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>>52783582
>Yvraine is sassy to Girlyman

Holy fucking shit, they are really shipping the two aren't they?

>>52784613
>primarch-eldar miscegenation when

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>MFW people ignore that Calgar was Ward's spiritual leige, not Bobby G

>>52780978
Exactly 100 bux ever, bought 200 points of Guard that are all third party (Victoria etc) to run in Killteam, Shadow War Armageddon, 40k, 30k, etc. I refuse to buy more until they're all painted, used on the field, and I've identified gaps in my list that a few new models could fill. Discipline is how you master the plastic crack without the plastic crack mastering you.

>Sisters of battle will be on last chance to buy soon
>>52784636
At least hes not as bad as kaldor draigo.

>>52784668
He's my glorious golden boy and I'll only actually get to play him because of the WAACy culture of my lgs

>>52782801
>But the purpose of all orks is to get in melee eventually

No, that's one of the biggest traps of Orks.

Fluffwise, the army is supposed to get into melee.

Ruleswise, the only unit worth taking that should get into melee are Meganobz.

I mean, there are others that are designed to go into melee, it's just that once they get there they suck (Boyz, Kommandos, Nobz, Burna Boyz, Stormboyz) or they never make it in (Deff Dreads).

Orks have been forced into a ranged-focused army since about mid-way through 5th, it's just that the armies we're facing have gotten progressively much better at shooting as time has gone by.

>>52784077
I dunno. I could see robot gorrilaman getting his ultramrines and close descendant chapters in on it. The chapters recruiting worlds and other closely affiliated planets forming the core of a new Empire of Ultramar. With a kind of eastern vs western roman empire thing going on.

Are there any penalties for using 30k Mk3 power armoured space marines instead of 40k ones?

>>52781637
>30" Berzerkers
Fuuuuuuuuuuck me!
At least the helpack isn't so crazy.

>>52784752
lack of grav is basically it no?

>>52780978
not sure exactly. Around 3 grand.
but thats been since 2002.

>>52782379
You are one point over. Gotta drop a weapon or something.

>>52784752
no. mk3 armour is still around in m41. Its just not common.

>>52784717
Interesting. In my experience even just 10 ork boyz will wreck face against my (t3) units, especially when led by a warboss, but eh, I haven't played enough games against him to get a feel for it I guess.

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What are some Space Marine chapters where the faceplate is a different colour to the rest of the helmet?

It just looks so sexy and I don't know why

pic related is only one I can remember right now

>>52784825
in older fluff I'm pretty many if not.most chapters do it for rank differentiation

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Ayup lads, it's me again. Fiddled around with some bits trying to find what suits my project the best. I'll try to thin the gut a bit and resculpt it.
The arm on top of the hat seems goofy, but it might work. I'll post quad-angle in a minute. Not too sure about the heavier gun from the Dominus, either. Might save that for another fig.
Shown here are some extra cables to see what'll look better in case I go with the Servo-skull, a shoulder pad to cover the left-hand arm, some extra gubbins and some armour that I might implement on the front. Skitarii legs for the feet that are going to get removed. Disregard the heads, they're for similar projects!

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>>52784929
And the other picture. I think I'm on to something Dark Mechanicus here. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

>>52784816
>In my experience even just 10 ork boyz will wreck face against my (t3) units

If they're attacking a unit which can't really fight back and has no real defense worth speaking of, like Guardsmen or Eldar Guardians, then yeah. Orks will wipe the floor with them. But if it's an army with WS/S 4, or a 3+ save, they can either do enough damage to take the punch out of the Ork charge, or just tank the hits.

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Yo so GW updated their site. Got a huge makeover.

>>52784947
Enough guardsmen in a squad will mean that the boyz can take some significant casualties before they get to strike (I2 6+ save), even worse if the guard have a priest present to give them shred or reoll saves on top of zealot.

I'm trying to think of targets boyz would be good against but even then I can only think of av10 rear armour transports, targets that cant even fight back.

>>52783582
Share?

>>52783900
Aren't they white guardians - eldar blanks

>>52784825
Emperor's Shadows

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>>52784399
>tfw the great wolf spirit is now the great bird spirit

>>52784613
I will never stop laughing at imperialfags if that happens.

>>52784613
Eldar Death God + Imperial Tactical Genius Superhuman = ???

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>>52785156
>it took fucking papa smurf to ruin everything the imperium ever stood for
I'd except half of the empire immediately turning to Chaos. God damn this is hilarious.

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When will 40k have demonic school girls?
Anime fits the setting since Eldar and Tau are already in it.

Has /tg/ ever written it's own Necron (newcron) tomb world / dynasty?

Remember, the Silent King's "let's be meatbags again" is optional.

>>52785176
>tfw that's what the prophecy about traitors meant. not turning to chaos, but to xenos.
I bet their kid would be cute, at least.

>>52783491
Everyone on eBay has a return policy whether they want it or not. even if it says returns not accepted, they can just open a case, say "item not as described," make something up, and then the seller is forced into paying return shipping.

>>52785266
I don't think so. You could run one now if you wanted.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Necron_Army_Creation_Tables

Roll for Original Side in the Necrontyr Secession Wars (d10)

Rolled 4 (1d10)

>>52785280

>>52785272
Serves them right for straying from the primordial truth of Chaos. Kill all aliens and alien lovers.

>>52780978
$180 of Dark Angels, $250 of Necrons, $120 of Tau, probably $50 of paint, $50 of Warmachine, and $200 of Star Wars Armada, soon to add another $20 of Tau. Been going since 2011.

I never got an entire army painted, including my one box of Warmachine. Prepainted models, fuck yeah.

>>52784947
Unfortunately my Sisters of Battle got really badly wrecked against ork boyz so I tend not to give Power Armor the time of day.
Granted I only run really bad lists. I should probably observe him fighting against DG or Space Wolves.

>>52785296
(Unification) Forced to assist the unification forces or perish.

now roll for C’Tan fought alongside before betraying during the War in Heaven (d10)

>>52785142
Why laugh? She's sassy because she wants the D. He tolerates her because her toe and pussy game is fierce.

>>52785309
>toe
more like cameltoe amirite?

>>52785309
>footfag
Off yourself, literally worse than scat fetishists.

>>52785329
without getting into a fetishists argument, no, liking feet is not worse than literally eating shit.

>>52784752
Yes every time you make a big deal about it, your opponent is allowed to punch you in the dick.

>>52785317
Yes, exactly, that's part of the whole.
>>52785329
Roboute is the foot lover. I like men and their butts.

>>52785339
It is. It arguably really fucking is.

The only fetishes I can think of that are worse than footfaggotry are beastiality and pedophilia and its derivatives.

>>52785348
Oh yeah, and faggots. All 3 go into the gas chambers.

>>52783722
>1000pts
>no riptides
it's like you want to lose

>>52783090
No, the Tau are the gayest faction.

>>52785354
No it's like he wants to have friends after this is over.

>>52785368
>missing the joke
>taking the bait

>>52785353
>assuming I'm a boy (male)
You're so stupid, you big dumb idiot.

>>52785378
>hurr durr i'm a trap so it's ok
Absolute cancer, please shoot yourself you fucking fag.

What is better
>the old plastic kits like Ork Boyz and the old tactical marine squad which were more ambiguous in their build instructions but allowed easy conversions and kitbashes
>the new plastic kits that are hugely detailed but only go together in on specific way, only allowing different heads or backbags per torso