/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

Left the game due to local players being ultra competitive cunts awhile ago. Have a hankering to play it again due to the new models.

Think I should join back up?

>>52763005
Honestly, that probably depends more on if your local player base has changed since then, it could be the greatest game ever made, but if the players in your area are all jackasses you're probably not going to have a good time.

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Is the khador pdf up?

So I have been making some converted monstrosities and listbuilding and I'm curious why so many lists run two wardens, two wreckers and a subduer? The wrecker seems like the best jack by far, though in a gun meta I see the value of multiple wardens.
Why isn't the subduer just a third
wrecker?

Also these are major WIP so don't be too harsh yet please

>>52763570
That's a cool shield, what's it from?

>>52763593
Skaven Stormfiends, I own so much skaven and their bits are perfect for Cephalyx conversions

>>52763676
I wonder if that'll work for a lancer's shock shield. something to keep in mind anyway.

>>52762944
THAT'S how you repose Brickhouse to not look like a gay crossing guard!

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Why did these guys get hit with the nerf hammer so hard?
Did they really need to give them only one attack every other round?

Going to a 3 list Steamroller this weekend, we only need to use 2 of our lists. What shit tier meme caster and pile of complete shit do I bring as my 3rd list to scare people in Skorne?

>>52764458
I feel like no one at PP really plays Trolls. They have such fun ideas (weaponized caber toss! elemental lights! weaponized yelling!) and then a lot of the implementation is kinda eh.

I got the mk3 2 player starter to get back into the game, but I'm starting with Skorne as I have a few support pieces I picked up for a song. I think I'll tuck the Troll half away, though. I really like the look/playstyle of Borka.

>>52765846
Well what are your two other lists?

>>52766214
>(Xerxis 1) Tyrant Xerxis [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Tiberion [22]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [18]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]

>(Hexeris 1) Lord Tyrant Hexeris [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Reptile Hound [4]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

>(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Feralgeist [2]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]

With Xerxis and Hexeris being my first 2 lists, and Makeda3 being the list I hope can scare people.

>>52766277
Cool. I like those lists. Makeda3 is pretty damn janky, but that's the norm with her. Maybe Wrongeye+Snapjaw could be nice with her.

>>52766306
Makeda3 is pretty good at making people not play gunlines since you can just throw her forwards as a 17/18 with 3 shield guards and the threat of battle driven. Dump her on a flag and watch your opponent squirm, especially if they play a slow faction like Khador.

>>52765846
Rasheth armor skew and Efaarits/gunline

>>52766277
>>(Hexeris 1) Lord Tyrant Hexeris [+28]
>- Agonizer [6]
>- Bronzeback Titan [18]
>- Reptile Hound [4]
>- Titan Cannoneer [17]
>- Titan Gladiator [15]
>- Titan Sentry [15]
>Extoller Soulward [3]
>Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
>Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
>Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
>Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

The reptile hound as a disposable arcnode doesn't really work anymore because you can't use Marketh to continually replace your arcnode. If the hound dies you basically lose your arcnode for the rest of the game because Hexeris doesn't have the time or spare fury to put it back up. Better to treat it like a Mk2 eHexeris node, where you only get one per game so you make it a durable beast like the Sentry.

>>52766443
Maybe. I just don't like the idea of my arc node getting tied up.

So even if I buy my faction on War Room, I have to buy the entire fucking Minions deck too just to get the one fucking Minion my list uses?

>>52766487

If your opponent throws chaff at the sentry, the Sentry can very simply trample out or just kill whatever is in its face.

If your opponent tries to tie it up with a heavy, well that's a win for you anyway they've just fed you a free heavy. You have 3 other Titans available to kill it.

>>52766847
Yes. PP is getting on GW's bandwagon.

>>52766858
So I have to buy the entire Mercs faction too just because I'm playing Skorne so can use Orin Midwinter? Wow I'm carrying on with my physical cards and any opponent who complains can suck my dick.

>>52766922
what kind of autistic retard complains about the cards?

>>52767347
That one faggot at my LGS who bitches that "we don't know if you're using the right version". The same faggot who says he shouldn't have to provide his opponent with stats about his models. I want to shoot his dude and ask for his DEF and ARM? He thinks he shouldn't have to tell me and I should have to get a judge to force him to do it. Every time I ask.

>>52767368
There's no problem with using a card in addition to warroom for odd mercs/minions, and the latest errata is a phone download away.

Tell that guy he's a cunt.

>It's worth considering, if you get everything in war room you get all the updated rules, forever.

A friend of mine got into the game two months before the "woops! Mk3 is coming out teehee." It felt super shitty telling him none of the stuff he just bought was valid any more, and he promptly left.

>>52767368
WAAC is a hell of a drug. That sounds like the fucking worst.

IIRC, doesn't the rulebook say that all information is open information somewhere?

>>52767482
>IIRC, doesn't the rulebook say that all information is open information somewhere?

I'm pretty sure it does, yeah. Your opponent can ask to see your cards at any time. If nothing else, to make sure you aren't cheating how much damage you take.

>>52767368
Pro tip, just don't play with that faggot, ever. If everyone refuses to engage in his faggotry he'll wind up ostracised and will eventually leave.

>>52762944
I like the repose.
Is it yours?
Also speaking of reposes any ideas how to make Malakov 2 not look like a whatever they were thinking when they designed him?

>>52767368
Isn't it in the main rulebook that that is open information? The dude is just dead wrong. Also, he clearly doesn't play at the organized level.

>>52767482
That isn't WAAC, that's just cheating. If someone tried that in an actual event they would get a warning and have to deal with being on the Judge's shit list for the rest of the event for wasting his time.

The game is pretty damn clear that stats are open information.

>>52767999
It's a WAAC mentality -- being a complete asshole to hold on to any perceived advantage, however slim it might be. (legal or not)

>>52768053
You're misusing that term, cheating makes you more likely to lose the game due to being disqualified for cheating.

I guess it could apply to someone with a WAAC mentality who is also mentally retarded, but anything can apply to anyone if they're stupid or insane, so that's a bit of a moot point.

>>52768172
>someone with a WAAC mentality who is also mentally retarded
I don't know, to me that's this guy

>>52767368
>The same faggot who says he shouldn't have to provide his opponent with stats about his models.

Literally the worst.

I try not to ask to see stat cards during play, as it's a good way of forcing yourself to memorize things, but fuck people that literally refuse to share their units' abilities.

>>52762944
You as you are now are dropped into the Iron Kingdoms with a FOC/FURY of 7 and five spells.

What spells do you choose?

Also, that's a fantastic Brickhouse, well done if that's yours OP.

>>52767480
If you bought the cards on WarRoom right before MK3, they gave you the MK3 ones for free.

>>52769964
You get a "founders discount", which was $2 or $3 off

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>>52762944

Does anyone play Brennos? Can somebody confirm ever seen him on the table? Which caster suits?

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>>52762944

Advice needed please.
Wanting to jump in, and choosing between Minions and Circle. The issue is that I'm fairly certain Circle is stronger and closer to my preferred playstyle, but the Minion models look better.

I'm after something with the following:
> Long / unexpected threat ranges, the ability to smack my opponent when he thinks he is safe
> A total disregard for deployment thanks to Ambush and AD
> A playstyle dependent on chaining together units and support pieces into smackdown combos
> Enough variety in Theme lists that I can run infantry-heavy to BG-heavy

Any help appreciated.

>>52770620
>but the Minion models look better.

Wow, that's not something I hear often. They have so many outdated models.

Anyway, literally everything on your wishlist applies to Circle Orboros 100%. Probably the only other faction that ticks even three out of four of those boxes is Ret. I wouldn't worry about balance too much, as while Circle is a little stronger, all the factions are close enough that skill will usually trump faction numbers, but Circle do definitely seem like your style.

>>52770071
No, no, and any other similarly costed beast will do better with almost any caster.

>>52770071
I legit forgot this guy even existed.

So, uh, no, he never sees play.

>>52770071
None of the satyrs really see play even.

>>52769964
>>52770055
You get the founders discount if you bought them earlier in MkII, if you bought them after December 2015 you didn't have to pay again.

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>>52770877

Many thanks, that's good to hear.
Could anyone give a general overview of how Minions actually play, specifically Blindwater?
Everything either describes the aesthetic (Voodoo Gators) or some very vague 'Khador plus Cryx' mashup. As a newbie looking in, I can't really make out much more than that.

Could somebody please give a very simple, straightforward opinion on Minions:
> Speed
> Melee game
> Shooting game
> Tricksiness
> Very simple summary of playstyle

Apologies for shitting the thread with basic questions, but I really appreciate the help.

>>52772294
Okay, so, the Blindwater are relatively straightforward. They have tough elite infantry that can hand down a beating in melee combined with some fairly potent debuffing stuff. They also have quite a few units that are designed to build inertia as the game goes on, by collecting corpse tokens to power up or snacking on enemy models to refill their health (this parasitic style of play is present in their warlocks, too - for example, Barnabus' primary offensive spell, I forget the name, heals a warbeast in his battlegroup if he damages something), but this stuff doesn't always come into play. Generally speaking, they play better into Hordes matches than Warmachine, as they have a lot of effects that trigger off attacking living models or only affect living stuff.

>Speed
Not bad, they're innately mediocre here but IIRC some of their warlocks are quite good at speeding their units up.
>Melee game
Strong. Their signature unit, the Gatorman posse, is very nasty in melee, and they have easy access to an animus that gives warbeasts +3 STR, making it possible to turn most beasts into heavy-crackers.
>Shooting
Ehhhh... it's okay. Their greatest weakness is enemy shooting, as they're not super great at returning fire and unless you're good at blocking lines of sight, even their toughest units will go down under dedicated salvos.
>Tricksiness
Every faction in Warmahordes is tricksy to some extent, combos and interplays are integral to the game. I'd say that Blindwater Minions are relatively straightforward, though. 4/10 sorta rating, not quite as blunt an instrument as Skorne, but not really about complex shenanigans to the extent of many factions.

No apologies necessary.

Has anyone ever gotten any use out of Dahlia & Skarath?

That bond seems hypothetically amazing, but I don't see them around much.

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>>52770620
Bonus Point for Circle are the stone Warbeasts.
They kinda play like Warjacks, slower than living beasts, no frenzy, low def, high arm. So you got a faction within a faction.

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>>52774353

They are popular with Arkadius, and one of the stronger arguments for running him out of theme.
A fully-boosted Ancillary spray on top of DEF16 snek is pretty great.

Looking to get in to Legion because I love how the models look and the lore is neat, but none of the various things I've tried have worked so far. Nothing too big, mostly either 0 points or fifty points with proxies. I've tried Fyanna, boxlock, Lylyth Vayl and I think that's it. Been thinking of trying Bethayne. Any advice or list suggestions when it comes to Everblight (outside not playing 0 point lists)?

Also, how effective are blight wasps at assassination? Most casters/locks are living, I was thinking Lylyth with Parasite then feat, maybe get some crits and that extra damage die.

>>52775142
>Been thinking of trying Bethayne.

You really, really don't want to do that.

>>52775187
Oh man. How bad is it?

>>52773473
In your melee game section you forgot to mention that the Blackhide Wrassler might just be the most cost efficient warbeast in the entire game. Maybe even the most cost efficient heavy, period.

>>52775142
Legion's a glass cannon faction, so it's going to be pretty rough figuring them out, because your shit gets murdered if your placement isn't good.

guys I wanted to play Skorn in this game but when MK3 came out they were considered gimp army - I've heard it was repaired - where are they now on power ladder and what is theyir play style ?

>>52763570
I bring gifts straight from the motherland!
Khador Command
http://www92.zippyshare.com/v/JI62A5Ll/file.html

Some notable things in it: AKs are getting a UA, and AK, ManOWar (obviously), Greylord, Doomreaver, and Winterguard models aren't in the book, implying three to four more theme books in the works for Khador beyond the known ManOWar one.

>>52767368
Just as a note, physical cards aren't going to be a thing anymore with future releases. PP is in the process of uploading all of their old cards to their website for free downloading and printing out if that's your speed.
Source: http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-4-12-2017

>>52763570
Wardens are cheap and Subduers are both a hit fixer and extend you threat range.

Wardens are also less valuable for Thexus to arc spells through than a Wrecker is, so you don't have to waste time casting the heal spell every turn.

>>52775269
How does a glass canon deal with scenario anyway? I've only ever played Protectorate, so this is entirely unfamiliar territory.

>>52775420
They've been in the process of doing a job that one guy could do in a few days for a few months now.

>>52770071
Brennos doesn't see much competitive tourney play because even though he is vastly improved over Mk2 both versions of Morvahna either took a bit of a nerfing or simply have a hard time competing with Krueger2/Kromac2/Wurmwood/Tanith/Kaya3/Baldur2 as far as list optimization. Morv1 probably gets the most mileage out of Brennos and he's not awful with Morv2 but she's still an infantry caster primarily and her BGs tend to be pretty small. Morv1 also really likes a Woldwrath, so points for Brennos become pretty tight. That being said, if you're interested in using him I'd try him with Morv1 and Morv2.

>>52775447
Either pay attention to it enough to make sure you don't lose or just make such a big play that you can shift your win condition into it without major issues.

>>52775235
She's the only truly bad warlock in the faction.

Pretty much all the others range from good to very good. I'd say the easiest to play are Absylonia2, Saeryn, and Thagrosh1. Rhyas is pretty simple in terms of playstyle, too, but she needs tip top understanding of placement to survive.

>>52775447
>How does a glass canon deal with scenario anyway?

Destroy the enemy's ability to score points.

>>52775352
Cпacибo тoвapищ

>>52772294
Probably the best caster for Blindwater theme (which is mostly Gatorman Posse theme) is Maelok the Dreadbound. Between Death Pact and two Gatorman Witch Doctors Maelok can have three max units of Posse be Undead (which denies most factions some defensive buffs and soul and corpse collection), his infantry and beasts (usually two Wrastlers and maybe a free Bull Snapper in theme) have Snacking with RFPs and likewise denies soul and corpse tokens, and his feat gives essentially his entire force if set up correctly +2 ARM and Incorporeal for one round. This means he lets his Posse units go where they need to and if they end up engaging enemy models two units will be 12/20 for a round and one unit will be 12/22, all with Snacking and 8 boxes and probably under Starcrossed from WE+SJ. Plus he has Mortality to up his army's damage. As far as Blindwater theme goes, this list is a pretty solid/great one. If you're worried about a lot of shooting that will be able to see Maelok over his sea of gator bodies try swapping out the Feralgeist for a Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew.

Minion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] The Blindwater Congregation

(Maelok 1) Maelok the Dreadbound [+28]
- Blackhide Wrastler [16]
- Blackhide Wrastler [16]
Feralgeist [2]
Gatorman Witch Doctor [0(4)]
Gatorman Witch Doctor [0(4)]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Wrong Eye [17]
Gatorman Posse (max) [17]
Gatorman Posse (max) [17]
Gatorman Posse (max) [17]

>>52774353
Dahlia and Skarath saw a ton of play before PP changed the rules that now prevent you from Power Attacking your own models. Try googling The Flying Snake and see how many people were upset at the lethal threat ranges Skarath could get from being thrown multiple times in a turn.
Currently the best casters for Dahlia and Skarath are probably Arkadius or Rask, both out of theme obviously. Rask is arguably the best caster in Minions and supports a ton of styles but running him with several of the Juniors makes for an interesting list (plus tossing Fury and Rage on some of those beasts, like Lugg for instance, makes them quite good). I'd try them out with either Ark or Rask, but probably Rask first.

>>52775352
thanks komrad!

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>>52775142
Don't try Bethayne. She's a frustrating caster to build lists for from an experienced standpoint. I have a few questions regarding your initial forays. Which Lylyth or Vayl? Also, what did you try with Fyanna2? I've had a large amount of success with Kryssa personally but that has more to do with spamming Neraphs and getting Azrael in Oracles of Annihilation theme than anything inherently wow-ing about her.

>>52775142
Some of the things that go a long way towards making a lot of lists work are a Seraph in the battlegroup, as many Forsaken and Shepherds as can be reasonably put into the list unless it's extremely light on beasts, a Sorceress and Hellion (or two in a theme) if you plan on bringing mostly the flying heavies, and if not spamming fliers having a reasonably durable fighting beast as an anchor, like a Carnivean or Typhon. As far as learning Legion goes I'd recommend Thagrosh1. He's hard to kill and makes our normally squishy stuff harder to kill, and his character beast (Typhon) is amazing.

>>52775292
Skorne are a solid choice. Most of the faction is playable. My current problem with the faction is not knowing what warlocks to play because most seem good. I can't pick based on what I LIKE, that's not tryhard enough.

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>>52775352
Something familiar about this scheme...

>>52775727
Lylyth1 and Vayl2, but the Vayl2 game should probably be discarded because the opponent left 2 inches off her threat range and I couldn't hit the warlock to save my life. Went through the spell list twice starting with two boosted casts of the -def spell, and everything after that missed. Snake eyes twice in a row was not fun.

As for Fyanna, I think I ran an Angelius, Raek, and some other heavy beast with a unit of swordsmen. I can't really remember, I cycled through a bunch of attempts. Most of them died pretty hard to double tep.

>>52776775
Double TEP is a rough matchup for pretty much everything alas, especially if you're not playing a 75 point game so your options for utility pieces are harder to fit into a list. One thing to note is that Fyanna2's feat turn can make almost her entire army DEF 16-17 which makes TEPs have to dedicate more dice to hitting over damage, which is good because on your flying heavies that will likely make it dice off 6 or 7 for damage. TEPs shouldn't be able to stand still to aim because your beasts (at least the fliers, which Fyanna2 likes) threaten between 13 and 14 inches on a charge if you slipstream them. If you have enough stuff to proxy I'd try this if you like Fyanna2.
https://conflictchamber.com/#ba1bgNaPaPbvaObubbbbbbfUb9b9a_fTfT

Legion Army - 75 / 75 points

(Fyanna 2) Fyanna, Torment of Everblight [+28]
- Angelius [17]
- Angelius [17]
- Naga Nightlurker [8]
- Seraph [14]
- Succubus [4]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Warlord [5]
The Forsaken [4]
The Forsaken [4]
Blighted Nyss Swordsmen (max) [15]
Hellmouth [6]
Hellmouth [6]

If not, Thagrosh1 can be a damn bricky warlock and his attrition game is good by Legion standards. This might be an easier list to Proxy.
https://conflictchamber.com/#ba1baCg_aQaOaRbbbbbbbdbdb9b9fT

Legion Army - 75 / 75 points

(Thagrosh 1) Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight [+28]
- Azrael [21]
- Carnivean [19]
- Seraph [14]
- Typhon [24]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1]
Strider Deathstalker [4]
Strider Deathstalker [4]
The Forsaken [4]
The Forsaken [4]
Hellmouth [6]

>>52775352
Thank you blessed Anon!

Baldur1 is one of the top 5 warlocks in circle. If you try to disagree he's gonna stonecleave ya!

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I can't believe Vlad got married in his Warcaster armor with big poofy pauldrons
Vlad you tool

>>52779531
His armor isn't actually "warcaster armor". It's an ancient ancestral magical plate armor that functions in a similar way. Note the lack of an Arcantrik Turbine or any smokestacks, which would be typical of warcaster armor. His armor is similar, but not nearly in the same class as Vinter Raelthorne's old "Mail of the Ancient Kings", which made him functionally immortal on the battlefield.

>>52779531
To be fair, it's "counts as warcaster armor," since it's actually an ancestral suit of plate mail made with blood magic.

>>52779531
>I can't believe Vlad got married in his Warcaster armor

From her expression, neither can the Empress.

>>52779605
>>52779694
It's still the armor he wears as a warcaster, and not, say, a suit or military dress.

>>52779752
It's the ancestral armor of the Tzepesci family. I think it's reasonably appropriate for formal occasions.

>>52779752
He's also not the happiest of imminent husbands. Maybe he did it as a small snub,

>>52779802
Considering that the entire marriage is political, I'd say the Empress would have no problem with him wearing a prominent symbol of the Tzepesci family during their wedding.

>>52779531
If he didn't, people would realize he's a shoulderlet.

>>52779531
Wow. When did this happen? Poor Sorscha. :(

>>52779531
tl;dr Command Book;

What else happened in the fluff progression? How did Khador recover from the Magnus incident?

>>52775292
Skorne are strong and most players haven't figured that out yet. Our playstyle is "honest", somilar to that of Khador. We don't have any fancy movement shenannigans or direct control. We just attrition you down or play towards an assassination opening or hurt you for hurting us.

>>52783690
I like hurting you for hurting me thame very much (Martel stye from GoT card game) what would be best warlock for this sort of play

And can anyone describe the differences between skorn and circle as they are 2 factions I'm most interested in in hordes

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>>52783772
Zaal2 uses the souls of your dead models as a resource.
Zaal1 kills your models to make them stronger, then uses them to improve those that are left. Basically he kills both armies and you have to hope you kill the opponent's faster than your own.
The models that go well with both Zaals also play into this (Immortals, Ancestral Guardians).

Zaadesh2 allows your models to interrupt your opponent's plan by counter-charging or defensive-striking.
Makeda 1 and 2 want their opponents to try and kill their warrior models, then prevent it and grind them down instead. Makeda1 even grants Retaliatory Strike on her feat which allows your would-be-dead guys to attack the opponents that tried to kill them (melee only).
Other casters are just generally good at taking an enemy charge on the chin (either personally or with their very hard-to-kill beasts/infantry) and hitting back. Examples include Makeda3, Xerxis1 or even Rasheth.

Either that, or wait for Grymkin, they play almost exclusively this playstyle. They have a lot of abilities that trigger on your opponent killing your stuff.

Circle is more about movement shenannigans and out-maneuvering their opponents. I don't play them though so I can't say too much on that matter.

>captcha
Fucking Cygnets, they never learn.

>>52783772
Zaal1 is the king of hurting you for hurting me. His feat gives him a bunch of tokens based on how much infantry you've lost so far, then your remaining infantry can use those tokens to hit harder or more accurately.

>Circle
They tend to lean on their warbeasts fairly heavily. The beasts are fragile but fast and hard hitting.

>Skorne
Skorne can actually play a ton of different viable ways right now. You want to bring a field full of infantry? Zaal1. Heavy infantry? Xerxis1. Slow and tanky beast brick? Rasheth. Want a more all-round game? Makeda1. Wanna cast some spells? Hexeris1. How about fucking with your opponent? Zaadesh2.

Thinking of getting into the hobby and also trying to convince some friends.

Are there any resources that give me brief rundowns of what the factions do? Like their strengths and weaknesses, any pertinent info etc.?

also the friends were into warhammer fantasy and the hobbit game for a time, so anything I could use there to convince them would be great,

>>52784091
http://battlecollege.org/index.php/Main_Page

>>52784107
Thanks.

To add, are their any factions that are just not worth getting into at the moment, I'm reading the battle college atm but I'd rather not decide I like a faction, buy models and then just get stomped instantly because they are in a bad state.

>>52784184
Every faction is worth getting into if you like how it looks and plays. Minions are certainly at the bottom of the competitive pile, but if you aren't playing competitively who cares?

>>52784184
All factions are playable, especially in a friendly meta. Most factions have Warnouns that are high-tier, mid-tier, and low-tier, and some match ups are just gonna be bad for one side, but this is really no different from any other wargame. The two-player starter kits are a GREAT buy, as are the full army boxes. Minions/Mercs/Convergence aren't "full" factions, so I don't know if that's a great starting point for new players.
Look into how each faction plays, see if you like the aesthetic, then get a starter kit and play a ton of battlebox games. Ask at your FLGS if they'll do a Journeyman league any time soon, as that's a great way to get a cross-section of the game.

If you want to consistently win and have top-tier casters, play Cygnar/Ret/Legion/Cryx

>>52784184
None of the factions are in a truly terrible place right now, but some do have some internal balance issues that mean certain models really outshine the others. Khador and Retribution probably have the best internal balance with almost nothing that's objectively bad but Trollkin and Crux suffer from having a couple pieces that are really above and beyond the rest. The rest of the factions are somewhere on that spectrum.

That said, compared to almost any other game out there the range of good to bad is really narrow and 9 times out of 10 skill is the deciding factor. With a bunch of new guys starting you probably wouldn't notice much difference right away anyway. One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of online resources, especially podcasts like Chain Attack and others, are hyper-focused on tournament play and only really talk in regards to regional/national-level tournaments where the skill level is super high.

Another fun tidbit is that we are now in a Community Integrated Development world, which means that A) all new releases after June will get 4-6 weeks of public beta testing before release and B) any models could be added to public playtest at any time. That means it's very unlikely that any "bad" models will stay bad forever.

>>52784091
>>52784184
>>52784283
As far as convincing people, it really depends on what aspect of the hobby they're most in to.

Lore: Warmachine has (in my opinion) a good variety of solid back story and characters that you can really find one that appeals to you. There's lighter stuff like drunken trolls fighting for shits and giggles all the way down to the body horror of Cephalyx or Legion. Even within factions there's a pretty good variety. Using Trollkin as an example again you have characters like Borka who kinda just wants to fight, fuck, and party but you also have Madrak who is fighting desperately to save his people or Doomshaoer who just wants to punish humanity. Most of the characters have good backstories and there are some really cool moments in the various pieces of fiction.

That said, finding all the fiction can be a bitch. For the first 12 or so years of the games existence all the narrative was in annual rulebooks so the only way to get that story start to finish is to find them all in the right order. There's also a lot of shorts and background info scattered throughout 72 issues of the magazine and two editions of the RPG. Newer fiction is coming out of their book imprint, Skull Island Expeditions, bit they have yet to compile the old lore. The current edition was started with a two-year timeskip in order to reset things a bit for new players an introduce a new cast of main characters as it were, so you can start there easily enough.

>>52763005
>Left the game due to local players being ultra competitive cunts
WM/H to a T in my locale :(

>>52784246
>>52784280
>>52784283

So after reading the college
Trying to decide between Circle, Trolls, Cygnar or Khador.
-Circle: I like the idea of the speed and movement playstyle as well as some control.
-Trolls: I love the look of their warbeast models, battle college doesn't directly say how they play and I'm still reading through them to find that out.
-Cygnar: Shooting and buffs is different to my normal playstyle and a change is appealing. Also some of their models are slick.
-Khador: Really like the theme, some of their jacks are really cool and many of their troops are interesting.

Kinda leaning towards the hordes side overall I think.

>>52784442
Circle is super tricksy and tend to be glass hammers, though a few of the casters can take advantage of wood warbeasts to be very effective bricks. They tend to have super powerful warlocks to make up for their okay infantry. Tend to favor melee, though they have a good solid ranged pieces.

Trolls I haven't seen much in the new edition so I can only speak in the broadest terms. They tend to be on the harder and slower side but hit like trucks. Of all the Horses factions they generally want to run more troops simply because they have a lot of troop buffs, but a couple of their warlocks can run beast-heavy if they want to. Very synergistic; few of their models are going to wow you on their own when compared faction to faction. Probably the closest thing the setting has to good guys.

>>52784442
A few words of caution about those factions:

Circle: They have a few bad models. The male Tharn and some of the Wold models just simply don't hold up. We do not currently know when this will change.
Trolls: I would say they are the weakest faction right now. Not unplayable, but you have to work a bit harder for every win.
Cygnar: The current top faction. However, their success is built upon a small selection of over-the-top choices and outside of those, the faction is rather limited.
Khador: A well-balanced faction.

If those points do not deter you, go for it. All of these factions are playable and you can have a bunch of fun with them. I just want you to have a fair assessment and that includes the downsides.

>>52784394
Well obviously you shouldn't have been such an ultra competitive cunt

>>52784442
>>52784552
Cygnar is, as you say, pretty shooty. They have a lot of really good Jack's, especially characters, and some fantastic warcasters. Their internal infantry balance isn't great, so there's more than a few troop units that are just overshadowed. They can run a pretty wide variety of jack and troop mixes. IMO Major Prime Haley is the coolest caster they've ever put out, though she probably isn't super newbie friendly.

Khador is a faction of extremes. You can swarm the board with shitty conscripts or anchor with slow, heavy warjacks and heavy infantry. They have some fantastic warcasters with a huge amount of variety and can run shooting and melee pretty damn well. Their warcasters can be a bit conceptually boring, basically all being some flavor of army officer who loves the motherland. The exceptions are characters like Old Witch and Vladimir who are a little more nebulous in their motives or Butcher who's insane.

>>52784598
>>52784552

Thanks to you two and everyone else being helpful.

I was leaning to trolls, I was more interested in the warbeast side but if they are more infantry focused I'd rather not start off with them.

I'm probably gonna go with circle at first, maybe pick up cygnar or khador if I enjoy the game.

Still trying to convince friends, one is looking at skorne and the other at the protectorate so I think I'm wooing them over.

>>52784703
>Still trying to convince friends, one is looking at skorne and the other at the protectorate so I think I'm wooing them over.
Two of the best-balanced factions in the game (along-side Khador and Retribution). They can hardly go wrong with anything in those factions. However, in this game it's usually not about playing the right things, but playing the things that fit together well.

Circle is in a good place and you cannot go wrong with the starter box.

>>52782242
They haven't recovered yet.

They've been ousted from Riversmet IIRC and are rallying to hold the line at Rynyr.

My guess is that the Menites are going to go full retard and attack the Cygnaran forces, turning the situation into a three way slog.

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>>52784703
>I was leaning to trolls, I was more interested in the warbeast side but if they are more infantry focused I'd rather not start off with them.
You don't need to play em infantry heavy.
If you play under the theme force "The Power of Dhunia" you get bonuses for playing a bunch of beast.

>>52784778
It's more than just that, I usually play very straight forward factions melee factions. Ogres in fantasy, dwarves in hobbit etc. Why I was attracted to cygnar and circle were a bit of change of pace.

Also thanks for mentioning the theme lists, I hadn't read about them yet, so I jumped straight into that.

>>52782040
The command book's fluff page for Sorscha2 seems to hint pretty heavily that she's losing faith in the motherland.

Sorscha3 will probably follow in 4shade's footsteps and hop factions. I'm thinking Mercenaries or Cygnar.

>>52784912
>Cygnar
That would be too delicious.

>>52784845
Theme lists are a really cool way to focus your early purchases towards a specific aspect of the faction. Other new players may get salty if they aren't doing theme forces and see how many free points you're getting though.

>>52782040
Well if you're gonna be cuckqueened by someone, at least it was an Empress. It's hard to beat that.

>>52784940
I think it's almost overdue at this point.

I'm surprised more of Khador's warcasters aren't becoming increasingly nervous about their country slowly turning into Orgoth 2.0.

>>52784552
>They tend to have super powerful warlocks to make up for their okay infantry.

I resent the notion that Skinwalkers are merely 'okay'.

>>52784940
Yeah, because Cygnar needs more casters.

>>52786123
They have the exact same number of casters as all the original factions from MkI.

Somehow I don't see Sorscha ending up with the Retribution, so throwing into whichever faction needs warcasters is probably not an option.

Is the Dire Troll Blitzer bad because it's not meta right now, or is it actually just bad?

>>52786249
Not true, thanks to Sturgis, both Cryx and Cygnar have one more than Khador and Protectorate

>>52786276
Outclassed by bomber and mauler and it's a little overpriced. Earthborn is the real shit troll beast.

>>52786295
Nobody cares about Sturgis though.

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>>52786606
Speak for yourself fuckwit

>>52786295
And Khador is getting an extra with Witch2

>>52786783
Now it's time for a dubious and/or mediocre bonus Protectorate caster!

>>52786864
Vindictus 2: The Starscreamening

I just want to make a zealot-heavy army that fucking works.

So SR 2017 should be in CID now. Anyone can share it here?

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The new SR CID. Am I blind or did they patch out the random ending?

>>52787821
Looks like they already dropped random turn limit.

>>52773473

Awesome stuff.
Don't suppose you could do a similar one for Thornfall? Again they just seem to be all over the place.

I get some distinct shooty vibes, between the Brigands and all the free firepower that the Theme can get.
Also a theme of 'hurting myself for extra juju' between overclocking all of the 'Beasts.

Something like a messy, explodey ball of violence that isn't particularly tactical, as much as always having some way to hurt the opponent and usually themselves.

>>52787890
At first glance I like it.

A lot of things change.

We could see a fall of control caster that usually base their plan around a big turn swing catching more CP possible and then grabbing the last one or two in the following turn.

On the flip side bully type caster could see a rise.

The 10" kill box I thunk is just a lie cause often you want your caster to be active if you want the sliglthy chance of winning on scenario.

6 scenarios, all with killbox but at 10". NO DOMINATE, only control, Units can control only on circular zones but there is no "must be at least half of the initial unit" rule. U can pass through friendy objectives and they don't block LOS to firendlies. Fuel cache gives continuous fire to weapons in one model (like Viktor). Terrain with 8 pieces with at least 2 LOS blocking terrain pieces.

A measurement marker is a token, template, glass bead, or other item used by a player to mark a specific place on the board based on pre-measurement. For example, a player might use a glass bead to mark the charge range of an enemy warjack, or might place an empty model base to determine if a friendly model will fit into a specific space after charging an enemy. A player cannot have more than one measurement marker on the table at any time.

>>52788389
>A player cannot have more than one measurement marker on the table at any time.
>>52788389
Now that is bull.

Scenarios no longer end when a player scores 5 CPs. There is no CP cap anymore. A player wins if they ever score 6 more CPs than their opponent, or if they have more CPs than their opponent at the end of the game.

Flags are controlled only by warlocks/warcasters

>>52788408
I agree...

>>52787556
Feora is a bigger Starscream than Vindy.

*Tokens, templates, proxies, and measurement markers have been further defined. This includes a limitation of the number of non-proxy measurement markers that can be left cluttering the table.
*Deathclock is now the standing timing rule for tournaments, timed turns are now a variant.
*Terrain that randomly goes out in WARMACHINE, such as burning earth or dense fog, does not go out in SR.
*Terrain guidelines exist for placing terrain on tables to ensure that each battlefield is meaningful, and that terrains is placed in such a way that it impacts the game..
*The type of models that can now control circular zones, rectangular zones, and flags has changed. This is a massive change, and should be read carefully.
*All scenarios now use Kill Box, which has been reduced to 10" from each table edge.
*The third and fourth tie-breakers have been vastly simplified.
*All objectives have changed. This includes a change to the Objective rule, found on their cards, which now allows friendly models to ignore the objective model when determining LOS and to move through the objective model as long as they do not end their movement on it.
*Scenarios no longer end when a player scores 5 CPs. There is no CP cap anymore. A player wins if they ever score 6 more CPs than their opponent, or if they have more CPs than their opponent at the end of the game.
*There are three Rumble scenarios and six Standard scenarios, most of which have changed. Of great importance is the new "Fixed Game Length" rule on scenarios, which states that if neither player has won by assassination or scenario by the end of round 7, the game immediately ends and the winner is determined by tie breakers (most CPs wins first tiebreaker, then if necessary most AP destroyed, and finally if still needed best scenario presence).

>>52775352

Thank you very much, comrade!

>>52786295
Witch2 puts Khador alongside Cygnar and Cryx at twenty.

>>52788241
I've never played Farrow myself, so I can't give you as in depth an analysis as the Blindwater one, but you're mostly right with your first impressions.

Farrow are combined arms, designed to be able to swarm into melee with relatively hard hitting infantry and do sporadic but powerful shooting via their beasts and a few other small based models. Like you said, they're not really the most tactical among Warmahordes armies.

>>52776669
That tooth pattern is pretty Space Wolfish. Coincidence?

>>52789769
oh and there's a fucking wolf skull

>>52775352
>forced a treaty that gave Cygnar its western lands back and gives Khador legitimate rule over Llael
>on the condition that no legitimate Llaelese heir arises
>take in the legitimate Llaelese heir in secret, marry her, have completely lawful claim to the throne of Llael
>use this as pretext to start a completely legal and justified war of extermination against the Khadorans in Llael when they refuse to leave

Goddamn, Julius is almost too slick.

>>52790097
Magnus raised him well.

>>52785498
khadoran civil war? Also, where the fuck is all the winterguard stuff was that just not put into this book for some reason?

>>52787890
Anon you posted this right as I was about to play a game at my LGS, so we used the new rules and scenarios, thank you. Played on Breakdown, aka. the Dumbell. It was weird but in a good way. I was using a list that wants to control a flag so sadly got kinda screwed since it was all zones all the time. Scoring points was REALLY fucking difficult and the game ended with assassination, which is funny because assassinations are now the most important tie breaker. One model being able to contest 2 zones at the same time felt kinda retarded. There's some obvious retarded shit though.

>A measurement marker is a token, template, glass bead, or other item used by a player to mark a specific place on the board based on pre-measurement.
>A player cannot have more than one measurement marker on the table at any time.
How about fuck off.

>Deployment
>Refer to the diagram in each scenario to set up a game. Each player’s table edge, deployment zone, objectives (circles), flags (triangles), and zones are highlighted in that player’s corresponding color (P1 = red, P2 = blue).
The diagrams don't actually say how big your deployment zones are.

>>52793290
I think past the gut reaction of the measurement shit, it's not so bad. They've already clarified that you can have as many tools as you want for one measurement, so it's mostly just going to ruin the players who plan their entire turn out, like H3 cloud walls.

>>52793278
>khadoran civil war?

Kovnik Joe: Civil War

>>52793278
Every time there's a command book, Jesus. They said at Lock and Load that the Command books are only casters, Jack's, and core infantry. Everything else gets a theme book. Eventually there will be a Winterguard theme book with all the current Winterguard models and new Winterguard models.

>>52793290
The diagrams don't say the size of deployment because the 'First player gets 7 inches' thing is standard to all games now.

>>52793891
That's no excuse to not include it SOMEWHERE. Rules should be brief but still comprehensive.

How do I use Pyrrhus, and who is he good with warcaster wise?

>>52794597
He makes Flameguard better, and tears through anything short of a warnoun, and with a little set-up, will kill casters. If you're taking Flameguard and have 5 points, take Pyrrhus. Don't discount using Rapid Strike to beat back something 2", or dropping 5 points of 15/18 in something's face. pFeora makes him MAT 8, pSevvy makes everybody good-er and likes TFG to screen.

>>52794597
>Read Pyrrhus
>Fuck tons of stats and abilities, dude's a 5 box warcaster

>Read my own solos
>They're all shit

Fuel cache objective bonus

> CAUSTIC CHEMICALS
–
During your Control Phase,
choose one
Friendly Faction
mod
el within 4
̋
of this
model. That model’s
weapons gain
Continuous Effect:
Fire
XICONX
for one round.


LOL WAT

>>52795697
yeah, it'll be silly with aoe dudes. good with Malekus and Horgle as well.

>>52786499
>earthborn
I want to believe

>>52795913
earthborn with no support is real bad, but paradoxically earthborn + mauler is really good. much better than mauler + mauler imo. Earthborn is a speed demon with higher armor, he just hits like a 90lb weakling and has a poopy animus.

>>52793782
Why should we expect anyone to read?

>>52788425

wutthefuk?

>>52795133
What part of "hero" did you not understand?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QImBolnTVH8

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>tfw Madrak3 is better at throwing spears than the warbeast dedicated to throwing spears
Also question about his protection aura. If I used it at the start of his activation with 6 fury, it would have an area of 9". Does it get smaller if I use fury afterwards or does it remain at 9"? It doesn't say anything about that and I wanted to make sure.

>>52797563
By my understanding yes.

>>52797563
It's exactly the same as the krielstone. It's size is dependent on how much fury is stocked in it.

>>52797563
it gets smaller.

yeah, it's pretty sucky as an ability

>>52795972
I would rather just do double mauler and axer than any earthborn.

Earthborn is just so shit.

Hello, I have a question. A friend is selling out all of his Cygnar army (going Grymkin apperently and taking a break for now). I will have first choosing and want to build 2 competative 75 list. I need some advice on what to buy for Nemo 3 and Healy 2 list. If you would suggest other casters that fare better go ahead.

>>52795697
Did you not read Bunker? It got a much bigger change. Target something B2B with it and you get -2RNG on ranged attacks. Combine it with anything else that does the same and you can fuck shooting up pretty bad.

>>52800158
Haley 2 heavy metal theme. You can accomodate pretty much any jack selection for it as long as it has either a Stormwall or 2xStormclads in it. Journeyman, Squire and Strangewayes are staples in Cygnar, but Heavy metal will also probably want Jakes 1 to fill the free solo slot.

Nemo 3 storm division theme 2 lances units + Laddermore. Second lances unit can be jacks or storm blade unit if you really really want them for some reason.

At least 1 arcnode and firefly is needed in both. Thorn is a good node variant for Haley.

I'd also suggest Sloan. Either in Heavy metal theme or without theme. Her list with Stormwall is like 2/3 of what H2 in heavy metal already has.

Stryker 2 can also effectively use most of the Nemo 3 2x lances list or similar. Key model for him is merc Gibbs.
In fact you can take several other casters in Cygnar if you want and 2x lances will work with them, Stryker 1, Maddox, Stryker 3.

>>52800158
This guy >>52800759 is spot on.

You mentioned Haley 2 and Nemo 3. Other casters to look at are Styker 2, Haley 3, and Sloan.

For solos, essentials are Squire, Strangewayes, and a Journeyman Warcaster. Additionals for consideration, in order of importance, are Kathrine Laddermore, Jakes 1, Gunmage Captain Adept, Gunmage Rifleman, Maxwell Finn, and Stormblade Captain.

Essential units are Storm Lances and Trencher Infantry. Additionals for consideration, in order of importance, are Stormblades, Sword Knights, and Rangers.

For warjacks, nearly everything works. Look towards Stormclads, Defenders, Hunters, Charges, and Fireflies. Be wary of Cyclones, Sentinels, and Minutemen as they aren't bad, but can sometimes feel underwhelming. Avoid Reliants and Triumph.

Hey guys, just returning after 5 years of being out of the loop. Really like the look of eStrakhov. How is he competitively? Also what's the basic rundown of Khadow casters right now?

>>52795133
>look at Pyrrhus
>look at Tartarus

Thank god bane CID starts next week.

>>52801238
eStrakhov with iron fang theme is moarbanes of Khador. He's also very good in any other melee infantry list.

Karchev and Harkevich are the top jack casters.
I2, I1, Kozlov are top melee infantry casters, preferably in fang theme.
B1, V1, S1 are the top gunline casters in WG theme. I2 can also work with it.
B3 is "the caster" caster.
Z2, Strakhov and OW are the wacky assassination casters. OW is considered weakest caster in faction though.
V2, S2 are the answer toolbox casters.

B2 looks good on shelf, I guess.

How much does the change to scenario victory actually do? It feels like that you have to go for scenario pretty hard, since you can't let your opponent score even once unless you have an army that can reliably go for the long game

>>52801323
Sounds good, so they fixed the thing in mk2 where half the casters weren't worth taking? My old Hark might finally see some play.

>>52800759
>>52800922
Thanks guys it's very helpfull. My friend convinces me to go for his colosal unopened plastic set. He says Cygnar collosal is good. And he advised me not to take 2 units of knights as apperently they are concidered OP and he fears for nerfbat incomeing (he said I can go for storblades instead)

If I buy all that stuff what would be best 35 intro list to start gaming with what I get (because I want to start small and get more games on so I learn rules better).

I want to get a new warlock for Trollbloods.
Should I get Horgle2, Doomie3, or Calandra /wmg/?

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http://cid.privateerpress.com/forum/dev-talk/6542-dev-talk-sr-2017-measuring-markers
>all this butthurt faggot salt by the (((competitive))) players
I think they were too generous in the rollback. I hate playing against faggots at my local store and watching them plan out their entire turn with wooden proxy bases. That's not what measurement is for. Just because you want to deathclock yourself for practice doesn't mean you get to take up an hour playing pretend.

I'm here to have fun with my cool painted army, not watch you shuffle around half-assembled unprimed plastic blobs and wooden proxy bases.

>>52791352

The whole point of laell was to act as a buffer state and battle ground for future wars with khador. Now there is no buffer state and only war can be waged within cygnar's borders.

He fucked up.

>>52801559

I feel most the khador casters have been reduced to a simple gimmick or a sort of light switch (on/off) when it comes to their spell list, so in my mind most of them are boring as fuck to play.

Strahkov 2 is a step in the right direction, amazing design.

>>52797563
>Madrak3 is better at throwing spears than the warbeast dedicated to throwing spears

What were you expecting? Madrak is a boss.

Did you miss that whole Desperate Hour thing with Madrak2? Nigga can solo armies.

>>52795133
>>52801245
Everyone's solos are shit compared to Pyrrhus.

Ret has a few that are more useful for their points, but even they, the "nice solos bruh" faction don't have anything with the same volume of abilities.

>>52801559
>My old Hark might finally see some play.

He'll definitely see play, he's fucking amazing now.

>>52802119
Issue used to be close but then they took away Rapid Strike. Otherwise yea, we ain't got shit on Pyrrhus

>>52802463
Issyen*

>>52802463
I'll never understand why they did that, or why they thought Shield Guard was a good idea. You absolutely do not want a killy solo like him hanging back with your caster, and he doesn't want to Shield Guard infantry from death, because his strength buff triggers via that.

He's dumb as a Shield Guard and without Rapid Strike he's no longer really all that great as a beatstick. Now he's just an extremely niche finisher.

Issyen and Nayl are probably the only two things in Ret that don't work. Which is a real pain, because Issyen was great in MkII and almost everyone owned his model.

>>52802578
Destors too. The Destor Than nerf still makes me sad. Loved running them in pairs and now they haven't left storage for 10 months.

>>52801608
Theme: Storm Division
1 / 1 Free Cards 33 / 35 Army
Artificer General Nemo - WJ: +25
- Storm Chaser Finch
- Squire - PC: 0
- Dynamo - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Firefly - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7)
Journeyman Warcaster - PC: 4
- Firefly - PC: 8
Storm Lances - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20

OR

Theme: Heavy Metal
2 / 2 Free Cards 35 / 35 Army
Major Victoria Haley - WJ: +25
- Squire - PC: 0
- Ironclad - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Stormclad - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
- Firefly - PC: 8
Lieutenant Allison Jakes - PC: 0
- Stormclad - PC: 18
Captain Arlan Strangewayes - PC: 4

Try out those two. They might not be the most optimized, but I didn't want to include too many duplicate models or too many synergistic effects. Have fun.

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>>52775352
Cпacибo, тoвapищ! Дa вoзвыcит тeбя Импepaтpицa.

>>52801830
He's not annexing Llael, it's just a personal union. Llael will still exist as a buffer state, and Cygnar already had defensive treaties with Llael and Ord in place pre Khadoran occupation.

>>52802858
Is dynamo viable in MK3 ?

Vyre Lights when?

>>52802578
Destor thane got nerfed into the ground. Instead of being a cool long range machine gun with a last second charge into melee we get...Another destor...

>>52804147
Never. They said a while back that the Vyre lights were never in production and no one knows where the rumor came from

>>52804026
>Llael will still exist as a buffer state

It doesnt. It's currently controlled and occupied by khador. The front lines have been pushed back to cygnar's border, it's no longer a foriegn war.

Additionally, the new matrimony basically means that what was once laell and is khador rightfully belongs to cygnar. Cygnar is now responsible for the people of laell and it's lands. They are launching themselves into another unwinnable meat grinder over a war torn hell hole. Let's say they do win, imagine the coin, resources, and time it will take to rebuild the country.

It's better to just fund the rebels and leave khador to deal with the mess in the mean time.

>>52804181
Fuck that. I want more lights.

>>52804278
>The front lines have been pushed back to cygnar's border, it's no longer a foriegn war.

I take it you haven't read the new fluff? Cygnar just took Riversmet from Harkevich, which is around 400 miles from the Cygnaran border.

>>52804278
coins and resources Cygnar would already be expected to offer to rebuild it's old ally. Llael is not "ruled over by cygnar" in a personal union. Unoocupied and freed Llael still run by the Llaelese Crown, it's just that the Llaelese crown moonlights as the Queen of Cygnar, and vice versa for the Cygnarean King. A free Llael still functions as a separate geopolitical entity, though with much laxer border control on the southern border with Cygnar. As per existing defensive pacts, an attack on Llael will continue to be treated as an attack on Cygnar; so no changes there. The people within Llael don't automagically convert to become Cygnarian citizens, they remain both de jure and de facto subjects to the Llaelese crown. Borders would presumably revert to what they were prior to the original Khadoran invasion, perhaps with part of Umbrey remaining in Khadoran hands. Khador's southern border therefore would be shared only with Ord and Llael, whom are guaranteed by existing defensive treaties with Cygnar further south.

>>52797033
I just read Pyrrhus' bio and that is a very good and appropriate song choice.

Say you are an Umbreyan living in Khadoran Llael. Do you choose Vlad and the Empress or the new queen and Julius?

>>52804621
Vlad and Ayn for sure. Umbreyans would rather be independent, but they do favour Khador over Llael.

>>52804621
Assuming I have my current faculties intact, Julius and Kaetlyn.

Khador is rapidly turning into a Orgoth/Morrdh style evil empire under Ayn.

>>52804621
I would rather not be tied down to the new Orgoth, although at the same time I would want Cygnarans to stay out of our shit. Llael is due for some revolution as the retarded nobles try to reclaim their old power. If Julius is a faggot and doesn't let that revolution play out, then Llael should be made free from both of them.

In all this "take Llael from Khador!" trouble, Cygnar seems to utterly forget about the Protectorate.

Hey geniuses, if there is no more Khador around for ISIS to constantly fling armies at, where do you think they're going next?

>>52805046
I'm pretty sure Julius intends on turning around and expelling the Menites after Khador is dealt with.

The Protectorate hold on Leryn is much weaker. I doubt they could withstand a siege, since the city's population would almost certainly riot.

Out of interest, where on the map do the Blindwater Congregation actually operate?

>>52805102
Blindwater lake and the Marchfells I believe

>>52800557

That's really not a big deal at all. -2 range affects very few models in any significant capacity.

An objective on the other hand that can easily hand out Continous Fire is a balancing nightmare.

Any model that utilises multiple AOE3s or an AOE4-5 now has to be costed around the fact that any single list could give it continuous fire.

If you still don't believe me look at the Victor and the Conquest. One of the Victor's traits is it's supposed to have the option offset the inaccuracy of the main gun by having access to a Continuous Fire shot. Well, now the Conquest can have that same effect.

>>52805046
>if there is no more Khador around for ISIS to constantly fling armies at, where do you think they're going next?

They're going to fight each other. Sevvy's getting older every day, and as mentioned in this thread, there are at least two Starscreams who are going to grab at power when he kicks it. Kreoss might join in on the fighting as well, since so much of the army is loyal to him and he knows Feora can't be allowed to rule.

>>52805337
Personally I think Vindictus will side with Feora on account of her recent boom in political popularity, and it'll be Feora v Kreoss. Feora will want to push an even more hardline regime to cement her personal power, maybe even do away with the idea that nonhumans can be left alone, whereas Kreoss will go with a more forgiving interpretation of the True Law, and be thinking of the stability of the Protectorate as a nation.

>Team Feora
Feora (hurrrr)
Malekus
Thyra
Reznik
Vindictus

>Team Kreoss
Kreoss (durrr)
Durst
Tristan
Amon
Reclaimer/Testament

Magical Girl Menoth will be neutral.

>>52805568
I just want Vindy to get his day in the sun.

>>52805644
He's a Starscream, do you know what happens to characters like him when their time comes?

They get shot in the middle of their coronation. By Galvatron.

>>52805693
>Galvatron

Sevvy 3?

>>52805724
sevvy4 thamarite caster

>>52805337
>modelled characters actually dying
>in warma fluff

anon pls

>>52806007
They'll kill him and move him to a new faction.

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>SR 2017 - only one proxy marker allowed.

TURN PLANNING FAGS BTFO

>>52806007
The leader of the Black 13th is dead.

>>52806007
Mordikaar

I hope Krueger is next.

>>52807012
so is stryker3's horse
:^)

>>52807040
He'll be back

>>52807040
If PP leave Mordikaar dead, they're missing a HUGE chance to do something interesting with the plot.

>>52807012
And he is in Cryx now. Next.

>>52804801
Out of the loop with the current fluff, how is Khador turning into Orgoth/Morrdh?

>>52807449
No he's not, he's dead. If you're talking about the new solo you're wrong, it's a copy of Caine. It's the thing that killed Lynch.

>>52807620
>using Orgoth soul-cage tech as power sources
>creating fellblades, soul eating Orgoth swords that require a whole bunch of human sacrifices to be constructed
>turning political prisoners into living weapons by shackling soul eating swords to them
>equipping Khadoran warjacks with foul soul-eating Orgoth artefacts
>unleashing doom reavers on civilians as terror tactics

Khador has passed beyond the moral event horizon at this point.

>>52807895
Now it's Skorne's time to be the good guys.

>>52808109
How do you fuck up spelling Ios that badly?

Holy fuck the 3 list Steamroller I'm going to this weekend says you don't need to field any more than 1 list if you want to. I'm going to bring the biggest pile of skewed memes possible just to fuck with my opponent's heads.

>>52808260
Bring the same list three times to show everyone why three-list is crap.

>>52808386
There's no list bans.

>>52808208
This would imply that Ios aren't already the good guys.

I really want to see what the fuck Nyssor and Scyrah's plan to rejuvenate themselves is, especially considering that it involves Goreshade. By far the most interesting hook in Warmahordes lore right now, with Madrak's move to a whole new part of the continent coming in second.

Hopefully we'll get a new Hordes faction out of that. One that isn't dad jokes.

>>52808814
>By far the most interesting hook in Warmahordes lore right now
You mean apart from a man who brought himself back from the dead being swallowed by the fucking Wurm, providing him with the ultimate test of his ability? If he passes the test, the Skorne Empire becomes full of immortals.

>>52808880
Eh, we mostly know what's up with Mordikaar - what he wants, what his plans are, etc.

>>52809295
We do? All I know is he's researching soul related shit to try and understand what he did and how he did it, then he got eaten.

>>52809481
I think he means that we know basically what Mordikaar plans. He's in Western Immoren to research the nature of the soul and how it interacts with Ucaen. He wants to fundamentally change the Skorne afterlife by using this knowledge.

We have no idea what the elvish gods are planning with Goreshade or what he's about to do. It could be anything from confirming that the Retribution are right and all human arcanists have to die, to deciding that they have to steal another god's power to heal theirs, to whatever. I definitely want to know what the fuck the mission Scyrah has charged 4shade with is, especially since he's both one of the longest-running characters around and one of the best developed.

>>52801752
And yet a bunch of those neckbeards bitch about sculpt quality when they have no intention of painting fucking anything.

>>52810694
Maybe no one paints because the models aren't worth painting. I honestly don't know why any skorne players would paint their titans when they are always proxy bases outside of deployment

>>52810743
>Maybe no one paints because the models aren't worth painting
Shut the fuck up faggot people don't paint models because they're lazy cunts, not because their appreciation of model quality makes them look upon their collection with disdain.

>>52810778
I don't paint because I fucking hate painting, myself.

>>52804062
He's 18 points, and so is on the expensive side of things, so you gotta be able to use him. Anyone that can boost his damage or give him extra attacks does the trick.

>>52810743
ikr, I don't understand who thought that model was a good idea. "here, let me make something that hangs halfway off the base in a game where precise measurements are important"
like I get mad when my inverters need to be moved funny so they fit in a fight, I can't imagine playing Skorne.

>>52808814
That short story seemed to imply that the gods revived Goreshade for the sake of the elves, not themselves. Nyssor indicating that Goreshade's research into the elves taking charge of the divine spark in their own souls might have a point, and Scyrah noting that her miracle was going to shave years off her remaining lifespan had pretty grim implications for them.

where can I get bits for models that aren't available in their store? I bought a bunch of used Vectors for CoC and I want to magnetize them, but the option to buy the bits isn't there.

>>52801629
Please respond

>>52812788
Go for broke. Buy all three.

>Have an urge to play Warmachine as I love mechs
>Friend and I buy starter sets and play casually
>Have fun
>Decide one day to try out a journeyman league
>Week 1
>Walk into store, nobody is talking to each other
>Try to talk to others about listbuilding ideas
>Every time goes right to "Just google this list and get these models" in 5 seconds
>Have couple matches, win first 2 games due to cheese strats
>Clearly a balanced game, don't even feel good about winning as everyone acts like a sore loser
>Go up against a minions player, a clear veteran
>Just laughs at me as he easily destroys me
>"Wow, I got trashed, good game though. Have any tips for me? I'm pretty new and I'd like to get better."
>"Just get these models, but other than that good luck cause you're not gonna beat me hahaha"
>Don't want to play anymore matches for the day
>Think about how so far everyone has been a whiner or complete douche
>And apparently 5% of the game is viable
>Haven't played since

>>52813177
My first match of Warmahordes was against a guy who took Denny3 and as many Banes as he could possibly spam. When asked how one ought to react to facing a board covered in Stealth Weaponmasters, his reply was "Who cares, I already know how to kill YOUR list."

My second game was Ret vs. Ret against a guy who took nothing but solos because "I don't feel like taking a new guy seriously", wouldn't show me his damage boxes on WarRoom, and ended up winning after I wiped his list because I felt like charging Thyron with Thyron to see what would happen. The answer was "max damage Riposte"

I've played four or five journeyman games and a couple against a friend since. Such is the joy of living in a town with about six regular wargamers who aren't GW exclusive.

>>52813177
>>52813333
Every game has it's shitheads.

>>52813459
And every garden has its weeds. However, Warmahordes has just as many weeds as flowers, if not more.

>>52813495
See, I doubt that. I'm part of one of the largest communities in the country, and in general we've got good people who are friendly and more than happy to teach newbies.

Plus, I've never liked the netlisting default, because only bad players do it. The thing about Warmahordes is that if you don't know how to run a list, it doesn't matter how good it is, you're going to lose with it. Most everyone giving advice to new players going to events tell them to run what they know rather than what's good, because they'll do better. And experimenting is important, meta breaking lists show up all the time, and usually from unexpected angles. The players that just follow the pack without consideration usually aren't very good at the game.

And the larger tourney scene isn't really that full of assholes. There's some, sure, but most big events are full of generally friendly people. There's a much bigger competitive aspect to the games played, of course, but that's not in and of itself a bad thing.

>>52813561
Beyond that, I think it bears stating that while you hear people talk all the time about only a fraction of the models being viable, that's not exactly true. At the highest level of play where people are good and lists are tuned, you might have a point, but only a fraction of the community plays at that level. Below that, player skill has far more impact on the game than unit selection does, and even then, those 5% are often very meta dependent on being so good.

Warmahordes sees weird caster and list wins with shit the community at large will tell you is trash all the time, even at fairly large events.

>>52813561
A novice using banespam in MkII or that weird Thexus spam in MkIII can defeat a master using a non-optimized list.

>>52804147
A pretty reliable source says that info on them will be out by Christmas of this year, and that there are three of them.

>>52813604
Depends on how non-optimized you want to make it.

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>>52813619
Can this reliable source say anything else?
Like, for instance, are they going to buff the impaler?

>>52801323
And Malakov2?

>>52813717
No info on buffing the Impaler at any point in the future. The three Vyre lights have some neat abilities at this point though. One of them has shot types, another has Oracular Vision, and the third has a gun with Bewitch.

>>52813717
Also allegedly Trolls are getting a Reach non-character heavy in the Northkin theme book.

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>>52813912
>>52813929
>No info on buffing the Impaler at any point in the future
aw
>Also allegedly Trolls are getting a Reach non-character heavy in the Northkin theme book.
ooooo
When does that come out?

>>52814015
Not sure. Around the same time/a bit after Trencher theme.

>>52813177
Jesus fucking Christ - you live in murica son ? We have like 14 regular players here and 6 - 8 that come from time to time here. When new blood shows up we stand on our dicks to drag him to warmahordes and dont let malifaux jackals pick him up (kinda on the fence as I play and love malifaux too). When I play with someone new that WANTS to learn I always talk him through key points of the game either during play or aftter and take time to talk with him about possible new models he can buy. I'm not a shop clerk or anything - and like 70% of us veterans here are like that ...

Murica must suck so hard then - pity you fool

>>52815180
I've been in two metas in America that have been chill af and very welcoming to new people. Each one only really has one That Guy who everyone essentially avoids. Might be a regional thing though.

>>52812788
Horgle imo, his play style just sounds most entertaining

>>52813177
Warmahordes is a great game, but the very competitive nature of it attracts a lot of really unpleasant players. I had a similar experience when I first tried getting into the game back in the beginning of Mk2; the local WM group pretty much laughed me right out of the door after I turned up with weird janky lists based on models I liked rather than bringing all the best stuff.

Just play with your friend. Try and convince a few other people who aren't already part of the hobby to pick it up - or see if there's any 40k players who might be interested in a second game. It's much easier than trying to put up with the net-listing competitive crowd.

What sounds better against Cryx with a mix of 3 lists, Hexxy1 with elephants, or Makeda3?

>>52813561
You are full of shit, it's purely regional.

At my place, people are always at my throats for playing meta shit.

>>52812788

All three have their merits. What are you looking for in a new warlock?

Out of the blue (pun not intended) I'd say go for Calandra.

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>>52816456
>>52817129
Just looking for a new playstyle.
Ragnor is fun, but he's a little straight forward. I picked those three cause they seem like they have interesting toolkits.
On second thought though I'm a little hesitant to pick up Horgle2 without either getting a pyre troll or bomber, cause I don't really have any good way to set stuff on fire.

>>52813717
Would he be good if he lost Critical Smite and gained both Thunderbolt and Powerful Attack? I feel like I would take him for 11 points at that point.

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>>52813929
Just watch. It'll be SPD 4 PC 19.

What are your thoughts on the changes to scenario scoring in SR2017?
Seems to me that scenarios is now all in or bust (since you can't really let your opponent score) and that favors assassination more

>>52818358
Hell even just reload would be nice

>>52806992
That's an interesting change. They included pre measuring but then want to limit the planning piece?

I've heard of and have seen folks that leave half their proxies on the table, which is really agitating for the opponent.

>>52818971
>I've heard of and have seen folks that leave half their proxies on the table
That is already against the rules though. Before you pass the clock you need to tidy up and remove any markers that do not represent current model positions or active game effects.

This new rule just seems unnecessary at best and counterproductive to a clean game at worst.

>>52819022
I'd take a look at the Dev Talk on the cid forum about this rule. I agree 100% with their intent here, about making sure people don't waste their opponents time by planning out their entire turn and then running through it. Sure, it's on their clock but it's boring as sin to watch and tedious to keep up with since you should pay attention to the entire process.

>>52819207
Some of the guys in my store have taken it to such a ridiculous extreme. Had to watch for 10 minutes while a guy proxy-based out a whole turn that we both knew was going to end with my caster dead. Motherfucker you don't have to make sure your jack is optimally positioned for the next turn that isn't going to happen.

So I did a comparison between the charger and the impaler
Over the impaler, the charger has...
+1 movement
+1 MAT/RAT
Naturally range 12 gun with rof2 and powerful attack
4 more boxes
-2 points

The impaler has over the charger...
+1 arm
+1 pow on ranged weapon
Ability to buff ranged pow due to thrown
Set defense
Regen and beast healing

Does this really make the impaled worth more than the charger?

Is it a good idea to play 2v2 warmahordes for beer and pretzels? For sort of low point cost or something. Maybe even 3v3.

>>52819848
Why not? I've done it, works as well as can be expected. Can get word is one team is all playing the same faction, the Friendly Faction advantage can get steep

>>52819731
>Does this really make the impaled worth more than the charger?

No, but it's a bad example because the Impaler is an infamously terrible light warbeast and the Charger is one of the best light warjacks.

In general, warbeasts are going to be more expensive at the same level of power because Fury is easier to come by than Focus.

Of course, there are only a handful of light beasts *or* jacks that are used, because of the inefficiency of putting Focus or Fury on light beasts/jacks as opposed to heavies.

>>52819848
It works well enough.

I've even done a hilarious 4vAll game once, which ended up with a nervous mexican caster standoff in the center of the table.

>>52819942
>>52820040
What point cost would you recommend for that sort of stuff?

>>52820051
Well, the 2v2 I did was tournament standard lists, 75pts each. It was a huge game.

The 4vAll was, I think, about 35pts each.

>>52820051
Last time I did it was MkII and we did 35 points per player (roughly 50 in MkIII). That worked out pretty well. When I used to play 40k we'd do X points per team and you could split them however you want between players but I'm not sure that would work in Warmachine.

>>52820007
I guess, but it irritates me when trolls are supposed to be the light warbeast faction.

>>52819207
I don't. Basically I agree with everything Olannon posted there. Clean play is necessary for a good game and proxy bases are the best way to achieve that. Having to arbitrarily remove and place them anew 5 times throughout your turn makes this whole process even longer than it has to be.

In short: Planning a turn takes time, with or without measurement widgets. With them you actually achieve clean play and without them you don't. Watching your opponent slowly plan out an assassination via 5 different proxys can suck, but would you honestly rather watch him stare blankly at the board for 10 minutes instead?

And then some PP guy tells him he needs more expperience with the game. Fucking hilarious.

>>52776669
>Ultramarines Cygnar
>Necron Cryx
>Tyranids Everblight
>CSM Skorne
>Eldar Orboros
>Orc Trollbloods
>Dark Angels Protectorate
>Adeptus Mechanicus Convergence

>>52783861
>Zaal1 kills your models to make them stronger, then uses them to improve those that are left. Basically he kills both armies and you have to hope you kill the opponent's faster than your own.

Zaal1 is also one of the more reliable "Karate Kid" models. That "one, perfect move the wins the match you were losing" fable. Zaal1 can actually do that, can actually be played towards that. Against people that don't suck.

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>>52763005

>Left 40k because all the moral standards that needed to be followed not to be a "power gamer"
>joined Warmahordes

Never felt better than my decision to play an actual game. Don't get me wrong, I don't play the netlist´o month, but I don't intend of trying to play the game as something that its not.
Had a few friends who had your mindset, tried to play this as a 40k proxy, but soon left as they realized this game showed them no mercy for bringing shit lists and bad tactics.

I say, settle for a team you like, and you stick with it. You dig deep and you get that gold out from your team. You play, you practice (with timer) and you learn to love your play style. You will have it harder vs some opponents, and easier on others, but thats the way of life I guess.

>>52819207
Their intent is (arguably) fine, but their implementation isn't the best. Mk2's "lol you failed movement by a centimeter GG" was not a fun play experience, and this makes spells like TK and Hellmouth very difficult to utilize. Also Praetorian Ferox that Jump have a pretty hard time seeing if they have landing spots since you only have a reference point for one at a time and their all committed to doing it, etc. There are problems.

>>52795697

Now combine this with the TEP...

>>52823639
Or an Archangel, or a Hurricane, or a Hyperion. Basically every Colossal is a better Victor than Victor with this objective.

>>52819345
>>52819207

I'll be honest, next to the fiasco that the Mk 3 initial launch was like, this got me out of the game. I still play from time to time but really don't give a shit too much about it anymore.

Last tournament I played in, 2 out of my 3 opponents had 10+ proxy markers on the table. Didn't feel like a game, felt like a simulation.

Next, we should just put out all the proxies, figure out what the statistical chance of each step going on, run that total average and say "7/10 times I kill your Caster, 3/10 I don't. Good game(s)/simulations/wastes of time"

Doesn't feel like a game anymore, just dull as fuck. Not that anyone really ever gave a shit how a game looked anyways too much in the community but it just straight looks like ass most times now.

>>52823661
I dunno, The Victor gets to put down fire AOEs that are also rough terrain with this, so it basically gets two ammo types each shot.

>>52823970
I feel you.

I was pretty deep into the tournament scene for 2-3 years starting around the release of Colossals, because that's how everyone I met through the game played. I was too stubborn in my love of Retribution to faction hop but I did the whole list pair optimization/meta research thing, practice nights, etc.

Once I met my fiance I had less free time and as a result I ended up kind of re-evaluating why I played tabletop games. At this point I was also playing a lot of Dropzone Commander and had to split my more limited time between the two. What I found was that the further I got from tournament play the more I was enjoying the game.

Then MkIII happened and I got super excited in the build up but found the execution a bit lacking. Ret didn't get a lot of the changes I felt it could use; some models I liked got pooped on and some that I wanted to like didn't get better. Plus Dropfleet was coming so I was playing more Dropzone anyway. I ended up not playing from August/September to late December or early January.

By the time I came back the crowd at my store had gone full-bore on this over measuring nonsense. I got in more and more arguments with other players over their single-minded obsession with tournament play as the only play, their complete disinterest in anything that hasn't been vetted by one of the "big names". I've mentioned here before that one guy told me that no one plays Warmachine for the fluff or models and that there's no point in playing if you're not going to compete.

>>52823970
>>52824296
It made me really disinterested in playing, which sucked balls. Luckily PP came through with the Ghyrrshyld announcement and I'm all aboard that hype train. But these days I have to be more picky about my opponents. I have to lean to just avoid conversations that end with everyone ganging up to bitch. Luckily there's a small core of players that feel the same way I do, so we've been playing less and the store and more at people's houses.

That got longer than I meant it to. The point is that I felt the way you felt and I almost bailed. Gotta decide if the parts you like are worth the extra effort to find like minds and avoid the cunts

>>52818971

Hungerford:
>Pre-measurement was not meant for the table to become cluttered with dozens of bases, widgets, markers and other items as a player pre-planned their entire turn as their opponent watched, then went through the motions again to actually commit to any actions. We have, in the year since the introduction of pre-measurement, watched the types of games where proxy bases are carefully placed and moved around the board without anything happening, the players agreeing to each minute measurement, and then again as some of those measurements actually happened and others didn't (due to die rolls or other game state alterations). This was not our intent with pre-measurement.

Soles:
> On the other hand, I do not think we could have foreseen exactly how these rules would come to be interpreted by some. It was never our intent in saying you can measure anything at any time that players would use this rule to fully plan out turns in details and depth without moving the first model. This sort of interpretation is several steps of logic removed from the rules as written and seemingly emerged through organized play and so that is where we have decided to address it. While some players enjoy the mental exercise of planning out their turn to the nearest fraction of an inch before initiating their plans, simply put this is not the game we set out to create. We want more risk. We engineer more risk and chance of failure. And yes, that includes the position of models by design. If you want to the perfect, infallible Trencher cloud wall, put your Trenchers closer together, etc.


Pagani
>
Yeah, Pagani doesn't like the change, but is singing the song and dance in replies.

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>>52819207
>>52819345
>>52824296
>>52823970
I'm glad it's being changed. It was stupid to watch. I don't care if it's all "on your clock". It's uninteresting, I don't like it, and I don't fucking put up with it in casual Steamroller play. In tournaments, my dislike is balanced out with the fact they're eating up their clock, and 80% of the time I clock my opponent. (I don't do proxy-base shit unless I'm making a tight turn around terrain.)

Whenever my opponent tries to get me to agree to measurements with proxy bases, I flat-out tell them "We can agree to it when you are activating and moving that model. I am not required to agree on distances for your premeasuring." And I'm not, and they pitch a fit, and then a Judge comes over and tells them just that.

I can't count the number of times people plan out their entire fucking turn, and then botch a roll on their first activation, throwing their Rube Goldberg-machine plan out the window. (Funny enough, they don't decide to waste more time planning out moves.)

>>52820475
Warmachine, and arguably every tabletop game, isn't about technically perfect and precise gameplay 100% reliant on the skills of the player. If you want gameplay like that, go play on Vassal.

The developers are right, and tournament players are being fucking babies.

>>52824296
A bit off topic, but what are the size and organization of your Dropzone/Dropfleet community like?
The resident autistic tryhards have driven off any new blood in the local Warmachine crowd (myself included for the time being), but I've been trying to get Dropfleet off the ground before the BFG rumors come true and cockblock my efforts.

>>52824296
>I got in more and more arguments with other players over their single-minded obsession with tournament play as the only play
I will say this, playing using the Steamroller (tournament) rules, especially the upcoming 2017 rules, is probably the most ideal way to play Warmachine, as it makes it so it isn't just an assassination/boardwipe game. Timed turns is also a good game feature (but 60-minute deathclock is retarded) because some players sometime need that encouragement to not sit around and think all day.

However, what people need to do is leave the tournament-play mentality behind. Not every game is practice for your store credit prize tournament this upcoming weekend, and I'm not your punching bag.

>>52823661
>TEP

True, but the TEP isn't a colossal. I don't know the outcome of the battle engine CID thing but the TEP is about half the price.

>>52820171
>>52820209
Will try both, thanks.

>>52824526
I've managed to dredge up half a dozen total Dropzone with about three regulars and a little less than that for Fleet. One of my DzC regulars quit wargaming all together, partially because of the WM crowd. It's definitely a harder sell than heroic scale, maybe cause people like having heroes? Great games though, worth the effort if you can find a player or two. If you're in southern New England we might be able to arrange something.

>>52824721
I don't have a problem with using non-clocked SR for casual games because it's quick and balanced. Just like you said though, it's a mentality thing.

>>52824721
The problem with Timed Turns is that it heavily encourages stalling.

>>52824721
Just so you know, in the SR2017 Document deathclocks are becoming the standard, replacing timed turns.

>>52824965
We're talking casual play, not in tournaments. Timed turns is good for that to prevent really REALLY slow play. And if you're worried about stalling still, just lift the round time.

Hey guys

Do point-blank attacks with an AOE weapon still place an AOE?

>>52825220
If it doesn't say it doesn't, it does.

>>52824965

I don't see it. It's a slight bias against infantry hordes- although we're not supposed to be mad that those guys anymore now.

>>52824477
>Warmachine, and arguably every tabletop game, isn't about technically perfect and precise gameplay 100% reliant on the skills of the player. If you want gameplay like that, go play on Vassal.

Warmachine distinguished itself by being ever so slightly more about technically perfect and precise gameplay than it's peer tabletops. That and a balancing jones. Whether the devs like it or not that's the gent that brought them to the dance.

>>52825850
And it still distinguishes itself as that. It's not a big deal though. That rule will probably be gone by wednesday.

>>52825887

You have to feel for them, though (the devs). Among other things I don't think they appreciated just how much the odd ambiguity about stuff was hard-wired into their balancing until it disappeared. But the guy that spends ten minutes laying out proxies was spending 10 minutes staring at the table and muttering to himself before that, you aren't doing to change him with a sentence or two in a steamroller document.

>>52824477
I normally don't say mean things over the Internet but you sound like a dick dude. How hard is it to agree on a measurement? You sound like a baby.

>>52821057
Psht.

Eldar are Ret, Skorne are Deldar.

>>52826699
It's not hard to agree on a measurement.

It's annoying to have people playing turbonerd tournament games in casual friday play. If they want to lay out proxies, fine, but I'm not going to agree to your entire turn before you play it out.

>>52825887
They had 3 dev topics full of people bitching about it. On the second one, the rule got clearer, but on the third, it got WORSE.

PP devs have already stated the intent of the game was not to be able to lay out your entire turn with proxies. The only thing up for discussion is the wording and to a lesser extent the number and type of proxies you can use.

But gone is the day of unlimited proxies.

>>52826229
Not really. Standing there and muttering about what you THINK you are going to do is a different thought process than planning out your entire turn step by step measurement by measurement.

The people who mutter still mutter. Hell, there are even people now who just mutter while laying out wooden circles.

>>52825227
Thank you

Wow, combined with the minimum deviation rule, point-blank seems pretty cool.

>>52826699

I dunno. That sort of thing in advance feels a lot like signing a contract with somebody with red skin and horns, ifywim.

New thread where

>>52827127

2 or 3 tools would be an acceptable compromise. It would let you properly check the movement of 1 single model without making the table look like shit.

They let the gunlines out of Pandoras box when they added in premeasuring and are desperately trying to put it back in. You can tell they didn't see gunlines coming as hard as they did with shit like caine3 and Chiron releasing as they did.

They're just stuck now in a different design space box then they were. Starting next year you'll probably see like a full 6 months of model releases that are dedicated anti gunline stuff.

>>52828307
>>52828307
>>52828307
New thread with Khador command