What is his alignment?

>alignment
Blegh

>>52758610
>What is his alignment?
this thread is going nowhere.
>Stat me
5* classic

>>52758610
True Neutral

>>52758664
I am seriously interested in hearing your opinions.

I can't tell if he is neutral or chaotic neutral.

Although I am leaning on the chaotic side cause he is a cunt.


He does not really do anything out of conviction or creed.

>>52758610
Chaotic Neutral.

Also,
>alignment
>asoiaf

>>52758702
I don't get how being from asoiaf makes them not have an alignment.

Unless you are implying that they are all just chaotic asshole

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>>52758610
CN

He wants people to think he's CE and loves killing for the sake of killing, but compared to his brother his behavior seems almost random

>>52758826
I'm implying alignments and ASOIAF are both shit.

>>52758610
TN

>>52758951
kys

>>52758610
>Fuck alignment

>>52758961
^this

>>52758961
Not an argument.

>>52758997
>implying that somehow saying "alignments are shit" IS an argument?

>>52758610
If you have to ask it's neutral

>>52759029
well I knew it was in the neutral spectrum cause those are confusing as fuck but what type.

Chaotic Lawful Evil and Good are easy to pick out

>>52758997
I think it wasn't meant as an argument, but an imperative.

>>52759053
He serves neither Law, nor Chaos.

He's about as true neutral as you can get.

>>52759086
^^this

Btw for the "alignments are shit" poster, "Imperative" means command.

>>52759093
Yet he serves himself and is selfish

So CN?

Although later on he he becomes more selfless.

>>52758610
Right Likeable Cunt

>>52758610
True Neutral leaning vaguely in the direction of Chaotic Evil. He doesn't actually do anything chaotically. He doesn't give much respect to the law, but neither does he break the law without clear cause. He acts pragmatically, self-serving, but not consumed with greed or violence owing to his general dispassion. He is still capable of helping others and honorable behavior, but he doesn't feel great reward in doing so.
It all combines to leave him floating in the middle, an opaque mess of someone who will do whatever he needs to, delivering both slaughter and salvation with a grimace.

>>52759116
Nah. He was left with not many real choices. I wouldn't hold his self-serving against him too much.

Neutral can be selfish, without the need for chaos.

I'd say he started out as True neutral, then arc'd into more True Neutral areas, and last I saw of him, he was becoming even more True Neutral (possibly even Lawful neutral-ish)

He's pretty solid TN, IMVHHO

>>52759126
It is kind of why he is my favorite character.

He is so hard to grasp compared to most everyone else.

Not evil for evils sake but not a good doing white knight.


Sounds like he would be really hard to model a D&D character behind.

>>52758610
Despite all the memes about ASOIAF's supposed grey morality, character's alignments are usually pretty easy to pin down.
>Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Jon Snow are lawful good
>Sansa is Neutral Good
>Daenerys is Chaotic Good
>Barristan, Stannis, Randyll Tarly are lawful neutral.
>Sandor Clegane, Tyrion, Melisandre and Jaime are true neutral.
>Wildlings and Arya Stark are chaotic neutral.
>Tywin Lannister is lawful evil.
>Cersei and Roose Bolton are neutral evil.
>Euron, Victarion and Mountain are chaotic evil.

>>52759273
>Red Priestess "Burn the innocent boy alive, my liege" Melisandre
>True neutral
Makes you think

>>52759273
>Ned was Lawful Neutral
>Rob was an oath breaking Neutral good
>Jon is practical, more NG
>Daenery is self centered in the extreme, and given to sudden shocking violence, CN
>Sandor, TN
>Jamie is Lawful Evil
>Arya is Chaotic Good
>Tywin is LN
>Cersei and Roose are NE
The rest I agree with.

>>52759322
one torched brat doesn't alignment shift make

>>52758610
Raging Faggot

>>52759704
but actions speak louder than words

>>52759797
So, you're saying she did not have any other actions beyond that?

>>52759273
Victarion I'd go with Lawfull Evil. You see in all his chapters that he's very concerned with Iron Islands tradition, and is ironically horrified at Euron's cruelty despite being a slaving raider rapist himself.

>>52758610
True neutral of course.

>>52759273
You forgot Hodor at Lawful Good.

>>52758610
>I know a little of this man, Sandor Clegane. He was Prince Joffrey's sworn shield for many a year, and even here we would hear tell of his deeds, both good and ill. If even half of what we heard was true, this was a bitter, tormented soul, a sinner who mocked both gods and men. He served, but found no pride in service. He fought, but took no joy in victory. He drank, to drown his pain in a sea of wine. He did not love, nor was he loved himself. It was hate that drove him. Though he committed many sins, he never sought forgiveness. Where other men dream of love, or wealth, or glory, this man Sandor Clegane dreamed of slaying his own brother, a sin so terrible it makes me shudder just to speak of it. Yet that was the bread that nourished him, the fuel that kept his fires burning. Ignoble as it was, the hope of seeing his brother's blood upon his blade was all this sad and angry creature lived for...and even that was taken from him, when Prince Oberyn of Dorne stabbed Ser Gregor with a poisoned spear.
True Neutral

>>52760513
I like you.

Attitude 8.

Fuck DnD alignment.

>>52760651
>Attitude 8.

WTF is that? My Little Pony board game or something?

>>52759984
Reminds me of the American political system. Ha-cha-cha!

>>52760674
Pleb.

His alignment is bad writing

>>52761097
It's funny that despite how bad the writing in GoT has gotten, and how overhyped it is, how many actually redeemable characters there are. I find myself liking a lot of them, though most of them are ones that I'm not supposed to care about and the ones I am supposed to give a fuck about I usually ignore or find boring. I am enjoying his books but not how he wants me to enjoy them and it just makes it more endearing.

>>52761154
this site is 18+ kiddo

>>52761154
I mean, a lot of the characters are enjoyable but fuck me are the books boring as all fuck to read.

>>52761187
Indeed it is sport, so take your non-argument having ass off the computer and go do your homework. Your generation is retarded enough without needing to neglect your studies, even if you'll all get participation awards no matter what your grades are.

>>52761097
The Hound is far from written badly.

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>>52759273
> Lannisters
> Evil
Spoken like a dirty northerner.

>>52761355
Imbred, child murdering psychos? Power hungry liars and oath breaking fuckwads?

Ya, evil.

>>52761459
Tywin was not evil for the sake of being evil.

The rest are pretty fucked up besides tyrion.

>>52758677
Completely agree. Undedicated to anything but trying to live and get by. A good three dimensional neutral.

>>52761476
Murdered his whore
Murdered his 'father'
Lies to everyone around him
Used his family's wealth to get others removed
Sent a whore to a young boy to get beaten to death

But ya, totally NOT evil. wut m8?

>>52761476
Tywin was clearly lawful evil. He's like the least morally grey of the family

>>52761791
Tywin is not a worse person than Cersei. She is by far the most disgusting Lannister there is. However, he is more cunning and ruthless than she is. She's just spiteful and childish, but she swings a big dick being the Regent.

Jamie = Tyrion > Tywin > Cersei in terms of "morality".

>>52762380
Jamie?

They guy that tossed a young boy off a high building, because the young boy saw him fucking his sister (the queen), thus breaking another oath and every law of man?

Jamie is the best of the Lannisters?

>>52762412
Not saying much, is it?

>>52762464
Right?

Kevan was a decent sort really, although a minor Lannister really.

>>52761777
>Sent a whore to a young boy to get beaten to death
only in the show

>>52762488
The cousin that Cersei was fucking is probably more well-adjusted as well. Martin is really heavy-handed with the "when everyone's an asshole nobody will be except these four people LOVE THEM" stuff.

>>52759273
> Stannis.
> Lawful Good.
> Not Lawful Lawful.

>>52762666
That Lawful Good was meant to be Lawful Neutral. Whoops.

>>52762666
Stannis sorta sold his soul, and broke some vows.

We gonna let him remain lawful?

>>52758610

True Tsundere

>>52762666
Devil trips

>>52762719
What vows? Other then laying with a woman who is not his wife. Which his wife encouraged.

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>>52762666

>666

Thing is, the idea that the Law is intrinsically good or even neutral is an intrinsically evil idea.

The law is an artifact of self-interest, created by people who intend to maintain their superiority over others by force. This is intrinsically evil.

There is no such thing as lawful good or even lawful neutral, by definition. There can only be lawful evil.

>>52762795
Fucking the witch outside of marriage, with the intent of creating a shadow spawn to kill his brother.

Lawful?

>>52762815
I already made the exception for his single act of adultry, and one act isn't enough to shift an entire alignment, especially after a lifetime of adherence to strict principle.

As for using a shadow spawn, nothing inherently unlawful about that. As for killing his brother, his brother was a pretender to the throne whose claim, which he himself viewed as a game, threatened to make the realm bleed.

Lawful as fuck, bro. The only reason Stannis resorted to killing Renly was because the law. He loved Renly.

>>52762809
>by definition
You mean by your definition. Thing is, your definition is wrong. If it was right, the Magna Carta wouldn't exist.

>>52758610
Jerk

>>52762862
Alright then. I'll go with that.

>>52762809
>trying to apply real-world morality to D&D, where Good and Evil are non-abstract quantifiable metrics, and Law and Chaos equally factual measurements of reality and the behavior of individuals, to the point where there are living entities that are literally woven from Good, Evil, Law, or Chaos at their spiritual core (celestials, fiends, modrons, and chaos beasts)

>>52762884

Okay. Let's amend that.

>The law is an artifact of perceived self-interest.

I did forget to include stupid and/or insane people. There are certainly a lot of those.

>>52759273
At BEST Dany is neutral evil. All she ever does is take action to benefit herself.
>you city has laws and traditions? Well fuck that

>>52762949

Shit-tier DM detected
Can't Into Metaphor? That's okay, your players are murderhobos anyway.

>>52759689

Ned was good.

Rob only broke it for the sake of love. He still obeys every other law.

Cersei and Roose are lawful because they operate within the laws, and use them to their advantage.

>>52762986
She could be CN...but NE seems better describing her actions

>>52763073
Ned owed loyalty to the King. Yet he didn't tell the King about the surviving dragonspawn child.......

Ned lied about Jon being HIS son.

Not 'good'. Lawful yes, but more neutral at the end of the day........or possibly even Neutral good.

Rob broke his OATH. He doesn't get to be 'lawful' after that. More neutral.

>>52763112
He actually break his oath because he's LG

>>52762412
>>52762380

It's always interesting that you can tell show fans by how they spell Jaime.

>>52763219
I watch and read, but the show is more pervasive currently because the books take forever to come out, so sometimes show stuff slips into my dalliances on the subject.

>>52763219
The show spells out Jaime in a special way?

wut?

>>52759689
>Ned
>Not LG
But that's fucking wrong. He resigned his post and risked being executed for treason to protest the planned assassination of Daenerys. When he figured out Cersei's kids were not Robert's kids, he gave her an opportunity to flee with the kids into exile.

People talk about Ned Stark's honor getting him killed, but they're wrong. His compassion was his undoing.

>>52763367

No, they never spell it out at all.

Therefore the show people hear "Jamie" when he's really "Jaime."

>>52763378

You don't seem to have any understanding at all of what the "lawful" part of "LG" entails.

>he gave her an opportunity to flee with the kids into exile.

Non-lawful act.

>He resigned his post and risked being executed for treason to protest the planned assassination of Daenerys.

Treason is, again, a non-lawful act. Debatably treason in that case, but the dude doesn't put the Law in front of the Good. So he's not Lawful Good.

>>52762661
The one who gets crazy-into-religion? (He isn't a crazy cult enforcer in the books, but he is still buying what the high sparrow is selling, up to and including seemingly forsaking lands and titles. Which, as of the end of "Dance," should rightly include Casterly Rock. Tywin is dead. Jaime has sworn vows to hold no land or titles. Cersei can't inherit as a woman. Tyrion is a convicted kingslayer and attainted. Kevan is dead.)

>>52762809
Which is why he corrected the alignment to Lawful Lawful.

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>>52763450
>He thinks that because lawful good puts the word "lawful" first, that you have to be more lawful than good to be lawful good

>>52763008
>DM
>metaphor
It's literally part of the setting that comes part and parcel with alignment.
You have no idea what you're talking about if you think it can be interpreted as a DM's selection.

>>52763084
I'd lean to CN. she shit all over a whole societies customs sure, but that was in the process of mass emancipation. She's well meaning just at times inept and unsubtle with an ends justify the means mentality. A neutral trait.

>>52758610
His alignment is "alignements don't work for people or characters worth half a damn"

>>52763450
You do not understand alignments at all, and you are not qualified to speak about them.

To other people, Daenerys is not an evil character, or even a neutral character, simply because you don't like her.

>>52765068
>To other people, Daenerys is not an evil character, or even a neutral character, simply because you don't like her.

You're right. She's an evil character because she's a barbarian who destroyed multiple civilizations because they hurt her feelings

>>52763153

Ned's only failing via oaths was that he refused to comment on the particulars.

>Lawful Good doesn't necessitate "Lawful Nice"

>>52759114
>command
No it's an opinion, why are D&D fanboys so fucking stupid? Okay it was an unsubstantiated opinion, that's what you morons are actually referring to, unfortunately you're too idiotic/butthurt to phrase it properly.

>>52759689
>Tywin
Tywin I had the love of my sons life raped repeatedly in front of him Lannister?

Dude was Lawful Evil to the max.

>>52765144
Those civilizations were inferior and needed to be destroyed, anon.

>>52761777
>Murdered his whore
>Murdered his 'father'
His father was just about to have him killed in order to indulge his crazy sisters delusions, remember? I think it's kind of justified to seek revenge after that, someone tries to fucking kill you that's a pretty good justification. As for his whore she then betrayed him as well by shacknig up with his father who was trying to have him killed, it's not like he did it for no reason.

>Lies to everyone around him
Who the fuck doesn't on that show? Everyone lies (except maybe Ned Stark, hence why he lost), there's nothing special about that.

>Used his family's wealth to get others removed
Could you elaborate on that?

>Sent a whore to a young boy to get beaten to death
Assuming you're referring to joffrey he had no idea that would happen, he was as shocked and appalled as anybody. Completely unfair characterization.

>>52762795
>stannis's missus was a cuckqueen
And then people wonder why that meme's become so popular.

>>52762809
Yes I'm sure the laws against theft, rape and murder are all about people maintaining their superiority over others, the law is solely about oppressing people. What exactly are you planning on replacing it with btw?

>>52762984
So the idea that you have to be charged with a crime before you can be imprisoned is a stupid/insane idea? What point are you actually making?

>try to discuss alignment
>nobody can agree on what the terms actually mean
Every time, this is why alignments are bullshit.

>>52765296
His murder of Shae was understandable. But it wasn't right, and even Tyrion himself understands it later.

>>52759273

Barristan was lawful good.

He spoke out against all evils in the book to where they demoted him because of it, but he still did his job until they fired him. That's lawful good.

While a lot of people think that Daenerys, Tyrion and some of the other fan favourites are on the road to becoming evil after ADwD, I can't be the only one who finds it funny.
I mean, look at just two of these characters out of context. A conqueror, who crucifies people, and her army is composed of dragons, strange foreign mercenaries and magic eunuchs. And her henchman - a disfigured scheming dwarf, who hates his family and killed his own father.

Literally in any other book, they would be the villains right from the start.

>>52765578
>He spoke out against all evils in the book to where they demoted him because of it
He loyally served the Mad King for decades and stood by as he commited atrocities. If he was in Jaime's position, I honestly don't know what he would do.

>>52765593

He's bound by oath, hence lawful. If he broke his Kingsguard/Queensguard oath he would no longer be lawful. He openly condemned the actions of the mad king + joffrey, but is bound to follow duty. He's lawful good.

>>52765612
Working for and doing evil in just because it's your job to do that makes you not lawful good, even if you don't enjoy it.

>>52763697
to be fair lancel basically had a brush with death and a miraculous recovery after said brush

>>52765612
That makes him Lawful Neutral, actually. It means he knew it was wrong, objected, but continued to serve. Lawful Good will question wrong or evil laws, and won't let authority that is corrupt stand.

>>52758610

Alignments don't exist. Humans aren't so limited to fit a single criteria.

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>>52758610
Tsundere

>>52765679
Faith Militant is overall less villainous in the books.

>>52765732
Manly Guys is always so on-the-nose.

>>52759689
>Rob was an oath breaking Neutral good
I don't get why RR Martin made him go full retard in a blink of an eye
>Fuck oath because I love this girl I just met
>I still kill that one guy who is my only assurance that keeps the Freys on my leash because muh honor.

>>52765812
I don't think it was even for love, really. He just slept with her, and felt obligated to marry her afterwards like any real man should.

>>52765812
Karstark had it coming. Alys is the only decent one in the family.

>>52765859
Yeah, book Robb took Jeyne as his wife to make amends with her parents after fucking her while delusional and wounded. It was the honorable thing to do for this family that was a vassal of the Lannisters, yet still aided their enemy.
So Robb was killed for following the honorable path, just like his dad.

>>52766057
Walder would finnd another excuse to betray him even if Robb did as he's told. Robb was fucked from the start, and his rebellion was doomed.

>>52758610
Lawful evil.

Evil because he is a cunt and lawful because he follows his internal morals at least when it suits him.

>>52766080
>at least when it suits him
That's not lawful.

He's not neutral because he's not above slaughtering random non-threatening dudes just to get something to eat.

>>52760685
Victarion is literally your typical burgerland dumb chad.

>>52758610
I'd say Chaotic Evil. He does whatever he wants, without regard to who he hurts. He just happens to like certain people and not hurt them because they have some emotional power over him.

He was literally there to rape and kill Sansa, but she hit him in an emotional weak spot before he could do it.

Bad people still have feelings.

>>52766387
He isn't nationalist enough.

>>52766519
>He was literally there to rape and kill Sansa
Fake news

>>52766298
Yes it is. It's just not autist

>>52766519

He didn't know what he wanted to do in her room - he could have raped her, he could have whisked her away to safety. In the end, he asked for a song.

He was Neutral Evil but that was the moment that made him begin a climb to Chaotic Neutral.

>>52758610
>Everything must fit into my nine little neat boxes. i'm autistic as fuck

>>52766519
>He was literally there to rape and kill Sansa, but she hit him in an emotional weak spot before he could do it.

Thanks CNN

>>52766363
Dude only wanted some chicken, man. Not his fault he got attacked and had to defend himself

>>52759797
She did whatever she believed her god destined/commanded. She serves her god above all else in a pretty fatalistic sense, you can't get much more neutral than that.

>>52761252
2/10

>>52761567
That, and you also can find him being loyal both to a pretty evil order and to a small joyful (although short-lived) community.

I'd go for True Neutral too, because he kinda jumped through all of them.

>>52770137
LN, the example used to be a soldier that never questions orders ......

She'd fit that.

>>52770192
touche

>>52762380
Never said we was the worst, just the least muddled. He's consistently a lawful evil dickbag incapable of love. Cersei bounces between evil queen and crazy bitch, and has stints of narcissistic affection towards her family. She's somewhere between neutral and chaotic evil.

>>52762412
Jaime's just a fallen paladin. Brienne will show him the way back to the light.

>>52760513
>did what he did only out of obligation
>unrepentantly committed sin without care
>rose out of bed only by the sheer force of his hate Sounds pretty neutral evil to me. Blackguards even have that aura of hate shit that would fit him fine

>>52770780
You can have selfish motivations without being evil.

>>52758610
Lawful Good.

Hear me out: Most of his shit is a facade, and when you take a second look you realize that he actually is more knightly than most actual knights in the setting.

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orange.

>>52770903
>is more knightly than most actual knights in the setting.
>Jon
>Brienne
>The hound
>For shits and giggles, let's include hedge Knight dunk
>All better and more honorable then true knights
It's almost like there's some sort of running theme about a lack of nobility among the so called nobles

>>52766519
Bad people have bad feelings, that's how dnd works

>>52770657
He was never a pally.

He never took his oath seriously. He killed his king, fucked his sister, and tried to kill a little boy.

Nothing pally about that fuck.

>>52768246
That was uncalled for.

>>52758610
Overwhelmingly Lawful Evil, with an occasional showing of Chaotic Good. Hence, static alignments don't work.

>>52772253
When has he ever been lawful.

He only did evil things because he was oath bound and was in his best interest.

>>52772276
>When has he ever been lawful.
>He only did evil things because he was oath bound
u srsly wot m8

>>52762809
>ancapfag detected

>>52772276
So you're saying he was lawful evil

>>52772320
>>52772682
huh. I did not really notice it until I re read my post.

Guess you are right he is lawful evil at one point.

>>52758930
THICCCC

>>52763112
>Broke an oath
>lied
>lawful
You have that backwards, breaking laws or oaths or codes or what have you for good reasons is good. What it isn't is lawful.
Ned is good, tries to be lawful, but errs on the side of good when needed making him NG.

>>52772253
He was never overwhelming lawful, he operated within the law because it was directly beneficial to him, and his benefactors often bent the law to accommodate him and his brother. Mostly he resented that law, because the actual knights were either vile bastards like his brother or useless decorations outclassed entirely by aforementioned vile bastards. Hence why he fucked off and forsook the law when it became bothersome. Neither was he really good, so much as he was haphazardly putting his own concepts of knighthood to practice. The Hound was a self-concerned cynic, true neutral more often than not.

Contrast with the Mountain. Clearly lawful evil, he was never not content with the law and the freedom it afforded him to do evil with impunity at the behest of the real power players.

>>52772002
>He was never a pally.
>swore an oath
>serve his king
>saved the city from being literally blown up
He was a pally, he just had an asshole gm that forced him to choose between his oath or the greater good, entirely intending to have him fall either way

>>52772253
>overwhelmingly one alignment
>but these three times he wasn't proves its totally impossible to assign alignments
???

>>52759273
Victarion is 100% Lawful Evil.But "Lawful" in the Iron Islands looks chaotic to the rest of westeros and us.

>>52765293
According to whom, I wonder.

>>52765293
Your mom's ass was inferior and needed to be destroyed ;^)

>>52766543
The Iron Islands are literally the only thing he gives a fuck about

>>52766071
not really no. Robb had offered something to the freys that no house had offered to them, a royal marriage. The freys are absolutely hated in westeros, and were hated before the red wedding because they are the happy merchant equivalent who made money by setting up around the trident's crossings.

Robb had offered them something unique that no one else had, and he had secured their help and friendship. Then he went ahead and went back on that word. The freys had plenty of wealth and money, what they needed was RESPECT, and Robb offered it to them.

After he betrayed them, Walder was right to think that he couldn't be trusted. So instead they went with Tywin's offer which was the second best. They Freys would rule Riverrun directly.

I hate the freys as much as anyone else but it's completely understandable from their position.

>>52758610
Evil would imply he was sadistic or was a bully. He wasn't. He just didn't care. Thus True Neutral.

Ned was honorable but compassionate. Thus Lawful Good.

You guys are trying to fit people neatly into D&D alignments. It can and will never work because D&D alignments aren't anything more than generalizations that measure whether you will be affected by magic that targets evil or good people (or lawful or chaotic). It's not meant to be a rubric that everyone neatly fits into.

>>52771246
>first 3 are nobles or have noble blood
shit son.

>>52773795
Wait.....the GM forced him to fuck his sister?

No.

Just....No.

>>52774309
>The Freys did nothing wrong

They were shitfucks, but in Robb's case....i can't say that I blame them.

>>52774309
A royal marriage to the guy who's losing the war is worth nothing. Roose Bolton didn't betray Robb because he was evil, he did it because he sensed that the ship is sinking.
Walder getting revenge on Robb for breaking the pact was just a cherry on the top.

>>52774363
>Implying incest in any way affects morality
He was even faithful to that whore

>>52774309
I'm still mad over that twist. No fucking buildup at all, he just fucks a literal no name off page and we're told about it later. Martin just wanted to wreck everythig for the sake of it

>>52774496
>Be me, Old man Frey
>Survive generations surrounded by houses that despise us and don't respect us
>Even though we're weaker, we survive
>Old King dies......a GoT's is happening
>One day one of the Tully kids comes up
>Her husband was a stark, and I owe 'loyality' to her father who never respected me
>Her son is making a move to be king, and wants me to open my gates for his army
>A powerful army on both sides of me.......wut do
>I honor my oath to the Tully's, and agree to give one of my daughters to the young upstart King, and bind our families together
>The young 'king' pisses in my face and makes me the laughing stock of the other houses
>The Lions offer me a better deal....and they're known for always paying their debts
>I accept their offer.........Fuck the Tullys and Starks anyway

As if we all wouldn't have done the same.

>>52774496
Robb was undefeated in battle, and Roosevelt kept in line with him until the IB invaded the north. Even then it would be doubtful that the war would end soon. Robb could have negotiated a favorable truce because tywin was pragmatic. Roose alone couldn't have orchestrated the assassination.

Lastly walder was very prickly about being mocked. A Frey in house stark would have given him far more prestige than the actual solution did. If anything Frey would have tried to play both sides which would be picked up by cat.

>>52774691
>would be picked up by cat.

For a Lady from a northern house, removed from everything......she was a political monster.

Fuckin' Tullys man....

>>52774816
And yet she failed to recognize how utterly unfit Ned was for it

>>52774868
Nah. She knew Ned was outmatched in KL. And tried to help by snatching up the Imp.

>>52774591
This. Walder Frey did nothing wrong and deserves no hate. He was unlikable as fuck as a person, but he was nice as a ruler.

>>52774691
>Robb was undefeated in battle
"Battles," muttered Robb as he led her out beneath the trees. "I have won every battle, yet somehow I'm losing the war."

>>52774927
Robb won the popular vote!!

>>52774888
Should've never encouraged him to go to begin with

>>52758695
I know that the 3.5e alignment system is far from perfect but i think he would qualify as a neutral evil that becomes true neutral later on?

>>52758695
Being a cunt doesn't make him chaotic.
Doing things for no reason other than shits and giggles is being chaotic.

Killing innocent people and being a literal psychopath ( he shows little to no regard to other people's feelings ) makes him evil.
But hes hired to do it and don't have the habit of going around killing random people just for fun, so hes not chaotic.
And he isn't lawful because he isn't loyal to some evil entity ( he abandoned his job because he just felt like it ) and doesn't systematically plan his killings or have a bigger purpose behind his evil actions ( kills because people pay him to and doesn't think too much about it ).
That's why I think he fits the neutral evil.
But later on he abandons his job because hes tired of it, stops killing innocent people and even seem to take a liking to Arya as he travels with her and that's why I think he then turns to true neutral.

The only purpose of the alignment system in D&D though, is to work with divine powers and alignment based spells and damage. In a setting like asoiaf with flexible ( and often absent ) deities and radically different cultures, it makes absolutely to sense to impose a system like that.

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108KB, 314x298px

>>52774959

>>52774999
There was no refusing it.

Robert wanted him in the South. Staying home wasn't an option.

>>52758610
Lawful neutral before the Blackwater, chaotic neutral afterwards

Tyson, lawful evil? No way. Neutral evil. He did whatever was best for him and his family (as an extension of himself). He was powerful enough to often be able to use the law for his own ends. But he had no qualms about breaking the law and lying if it served his ends. See:

>Betraying Aerys
>Having his guards run a train on an innocent peasant to trick his son into thinking she was a whore and having Jaime lie about it
>Having the Mountain kill Elia and her kids because Rhaegar-Cersei didn't happen
>Using the Mountain at all knowing how he operates
>Endorsing/encouraging the Red Wedding

>>52774925
>he did nothing wrong
>broke the traditions of the entire island that are deeply held by the two different major religious denominations as well as the minor third denomination and are enforced by divine or supernatural will

And now his little shits are cake, his retarded son is dead, and his family tree is rapidly turning into a family stump. GG you retard.

>>52775987
Lawful evil is about creating/abusing a stable system for your own betterment. It doesn't automatically mean any kind of personal integrity, though he did have at least some of that too.

>>52765812
>Fuck oath because I love this girl I just met
In fairness, in the books it was an honour vs honour thing, since he'd already knocked her up while she nursed him back to health. It was also acknowledged as an act of youthful idiocy by most of the people around him (his mother included, when she found out). To top it off, the whole thing was more or less a ploy by Jeyne's mother.

>>52776580
I've read debates that Rob was magiked into 'love'.

The girls mom was a witch after all....and wanted her daughter to marry well.

>>52776078

And how does that fit with betraying the crown? Or violating guest right, which is one of the most widely held traditions in the land?

>>52777152
Guest Rights were forfeit when Rob betrayed and lied to Old man F.

At that point, rob was considered a treasonous traitor to the crown, and was entitled to no rights extended to other guests.

Evil? Sure
Lawful? A-yup, technically, which is perfect for LE

>>52777152
If the system isn't working for you, upset the system and make sure you come out on top. Order is only desirable for as long as it benefits you.

>>52777228
>>52777271

Apparently breaking laws is lawful evil now. Who knew?

>>52777140
Would he even need magic? He was feverish from his wounds and probably high off his tits from milk of the poppy. Guy might well have been raped, not that anyone in Westeros would have viewed it that way.

>>52777593

Dude was horny 15-year-old and he just learned his "brothers" had been killed. Grief is an aphrodisiac or whatever. No magic involved. Her mom knew herbal shit, not magic. But she was tossing abortificant down Jeyne's gullet.

>>52777803
Man, Rob is what happens when you use Luck as a dump stat. He really could not catch a break.

>>52777863

He made some horrible decisions that luck didn't factor into. He didn't understand human nature very well.

He let Greyjoy go home and tried to get a treaty with the king. Not understanding that they do not sow.

He thought he could kill one of his loyal bannermen for killing a lannister......and have no ill will for doing it.

He thought he could betray and piss on a guy like Frey, and all would be forgiven.

He thought he could trust many that he had given no reason to follow him. In other words, he tried to ride his fathers coat tails and reputation, but he wasn't Ned. He wasn't made of the same stuff as Ned.

>delete GoT of my hard drive because why not
>this thread appears days later
Now I want to rewatch it, for fucks sake.

What about the Brotherhood Without Banners? Chaotic Neutral?

>>52780670
CG.

Totally CG

>>52758930
Not really random. DnD alignment is retarded. He just doesn't like seeing innocent people get hurt by shit heads, but he's easily provoked in most situations.

>>52780819
this.

>>52777228
That's now how guest rights work. They aren't invalidated because someone broke some other rule, they're a sacred rule meant to go unbroken. They're not alianable rights that can be taken on or off depending on the mood.

One mans traitor is another man's hero, but you invite someone into your home and give them bread and salt and they're a guest in the eyes of everyone including the Gods.

>>52763450
A, Lawful Good does not require you to put the Law before the Good.

B, being Lawful Good does not necessarily mean that you uphold a given region's laws, merely that you ascribe to some higher set of laws. Ned's devotion to his morality is a perfect exemplar of LG.

>>52775987
>Having his guards run a train on an innocent peasant to trick his son into thinking she was a whore and having Jaime lie about it
Given how Tyrion ended up, I bet Tywin regretted this one. Sure, having his grotesque dwarf son marry a commoner sucks, but at least then he wouldn't turn into a drunken whoremonger.

>>52777228
Wrong.
>“It was not for murder that the gods cursed him,” Old Nan said, “nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to vengeance. But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive.”

>>52780364
>He let Greyjoy go home and tried to get a treaty with the king. Not understanding that they do not sow.
Theon was like a brother to him, and Balon's dad had been pretty progressive for an ironborn.

>He thought he could kill one of his loyal bannermen for killing a lannister......and have no ill will for doing it.
Karstark shitters forced his hand. It was either lop his head off or give carte-blanche to his bannerman to do what they want.

>>52784660
He resented Tyrion and only ever wanted him to suffer. He would not be able to tolerate Tyrion enjoying life even if he ruins the family's reputation as a drunken whoremonger

>>52777557
Everyone knew except you it seems

fuck, archetypical mob boss is often cited as example of LE
And mob, in case if you don't know, is organization based entirely on acting against the law for it's own benefit.

LE is not bound to have any codes, to upheld any traditions, or to follow the laws. LE would rather act within the bounds of the law, or twist it and utilize the gaps and technicalities within like in the example here, TECHNICALLY it was Walder who broke the guest law, not Tywin, but will have no qualms about breaking it if it serves his best interests, and can't be tracked back to him. Or even can, but the gains outweight the fallout.

>>52758633
>BBEG
Ugh.