Mtg Standard

>>52713506
There already is a one mana enchantment that stops it, why do you think thid changes anything?

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rate h8

>>52714128
what about that embalm manitcore that has a fling effect? I think it's heart-piercer

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>tfw playing a shitty R/B artifact creatures deck at FNM because poor
>everyone else plays meta aggro shit like R/W vehicles/aggro, G/B constrictor or R/G energy aggro
I just want to play casual fun games.

Oh boy I sure can't wait for 80% Mardu Vehicles.

>>52714123

Different colours. I had a U/B Zombies list in Standard and by god I hated having to slow my board development and holding back Grasp of Darkness because of dying to Splinter Cat.

>>52714438
Play pauper or try out edh. I like pauper more than edh since I usually play modern.

It's more casual.

>>52714695
my LGS doesn't do pauper or EDH. also not a big fan of EDH, there's just way too much going on to keep track of.

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>>52714671
I'm running U/B zombies right now. Have a build you can post?

>>52714719
Try driving to other LGS if viable then. Mine does standard, modern, and EDH on saturday while FNM is usually either standard or modern most fridays.

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>>52714727

I got like 5-6 different versions of the deck tweaked up in testing, some with Scrapheap Scroungers, some with Heart of Kiran's etc.

Here's the list i'm currently testing now. Before Felidar Guardian I was able to amass a nice board with repeated loops of Diregraf Colossus and Relentless Dead to have a nice zombie board state but now I don't have time to dudle as much since G/B Delirium decks sort of trended off. I'm not 100% sure on the Fatal Push/Sinister Concoction count.

>>52714886
Okay, I appreciate talking through some of your choice. What are your thoughts on the new B/W zombies they are trying to push? Also how useful is mindbender game 1?

>>52715311

B/W Zombies is most likely going to be a completely different almost taxing aristocrats type of build. R/B is the hyper more all-in aggro version of Zombies and U/B is more of an aggro-control type of build. You're not fast on aggro as the other aggro decks but you can play the control game against them well and you're worse at control when you fight the control decks but you can switch to the aggro beatdown plan. The problem as always is Saheeli combo decks which you just can't do anything about other than hold removal and bring in Lost Legacy and/or Hand disruption abound.

I've always found Mindbender to be pretty useful the times I have cast it since it's almost always a 2 for 1 and I have a big beater on the board they can't kill so easily. However against aggro matchups he's just not as useful because by the time you can cast him out even with Emerge most of their hand has been dumped already hence why only the 1x copy in the main.

Lets see your zombie decks, lads
I'm super keen to make some sort of b/w zombie deck but there's actually a lot of options so I'm not too sure where to start

>>52714438
I know what you mean
>make a fun deck based around Pia's Revolution and Marionette Master
>everyone is playing card for card top 8 decks
>they reassure me by saying "yeah it seems like a fun deck anon"

Here's my UB control. Can't figure out if I should go for 2 or 3 summonings. 2 gives me more room for removal but I don't see it every game but I find I draw too many when I'm on 3. Decks tuned mostly towards aggro and cat.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-04-17-ub-summonings/

I didn't realize people played standard. Weird.

>>52718191
>Play U/G emerge
>Half the players are playing homebrews
>The other half netdecks from top 8s
>All the homebrews guys are having a blast
>The netdeck players go on suicide watch whenever they lose

It still sucks to have to dedicate your entire sideboard to stop 2 decks
We can only hope that Amonkhet shortens the gap between tiers

>>52714396
He's 4 cmc, and my dudes buff are temporary

>>52714438
>Want to play casual
>Go to a tournament
You brought this on yourself

>>52714671
>u/b zombies
>not r/b zombies
Found your problem. If they don't cast the cat then you an just cryptbreaker/haunted dead/whatever on end step.

I'm gonna try spirits again! with failure to comply!
I kind of want to try something like the old tempo-control lists with selfless spirit-fumigate wombo combo.
Alternatively, something with glorybringer because i miss stormbreath dragon

is anyone excited to play any of the new gods? they all kind of look like trash

>>52720988
I'm halfway tempted to brew mono-green stompy and run a 1-of of the green god, but it'll be a step down from Nylea to say the least.

>>52720988

I find myself in Top Deck mode often enough in my decks that I think Hazoret will be turned on more often than not, if you know what I mean. Rhonas is so easy to turn on it's ridiculous.

what color goes best with pull from tomorrow?
i'm thinking white for fumigate and blessed alliance to make up for pull not being ENTIRELY sphinx's rev.
of course, is there any reason to not go tricolor? I guess black would probably be better than red in that case

does aven mindcensor tech against anything relevant besides traverse and (kind of?) marvel?

>>52721202
turboramp with statuary and clues and rip fat nasty pulls?
maybe this is the mechanized production deck lmao

>>52714671
>I always hate having to interact in my creatures: the tappening game.
This is what standard does to players. Make them shit timmies

>>52721347
when you tap out theres always a risk of things getting too hot to handle in any format, but you hedge your bets because you want to push or create an advantage and thats part of what makes magic fun!
unfortunately when a decent infinite combo exists it skews the risk:reward ratio so heavily that you cant really afford to hedge your bets so you don't get to throw out your big plays.
for some people the mindgames and the rush of getting lucky outweigh the more conservative style of play, but not everyone enjoys the pressure.

Is embalm standard-playable?

I think standard would be more fun if they just replaced the cards on the inside with granola bars.

>>52721244
Aven Mindcensor does not hinder Aetherworks Marvel. Marvel does not search.

>>52721244
hits attune which punishes 4c

>>52723121
Problem with this is they cast attune early in the game when they actually need it, if they attune past T4 it's normally because they don't have anything else to do.
Hitting delirium traverse is nice though.

>>52720988
Well I'm not really excited but If I happen to pull one of them I'll probably find a deck to put them in.

The closest one I'd be hyped about would be the green one since it's pretty good.

>>52720988
All of them seem like a niche 1 of in specific decks. The good news is they atleast match well mechanically with each color so even the more shit ones are only as weak as their color (rip blue)

I'm coming back to mtg. Hard standard is shit, is it true?

How is fast aggro decks looking for the Amonkhet format?

>>52726624
>Amonkhet Format
People speculating on this are wasting their time. Currently we're dealing with a 2-deck format which are basically just unanswerable goodstuff decks. There may or may not be a ban, depending on how long Wizards can tolerate people not coming out to play Standard for.

>>52726624
Amonkhet will probably change absolutely nothing except for a different Gideon for people to plop down and ult immediately so the opponent now -has- to take out AoZ to win, and 4c Saheeli gets more consistent via scry-2 Nissa.

But then, I'm almost always wrong when it comes to predictions.

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>>52718727
>The netdeck players go on suicide watch whenever they lose
there is no better feeling than watching this happen
>that one fag that does nothing but talk about the gps he goes to
>talking about how he knew this deck would do really well in the meta around here
>is in the finals against my friend's BW midrange brew
>he's doing nothing but shit talking about how my friend is running sorin but not gideons
>gets blown out 2-0
>full damage control.mp4
>leaves before collecting his packs

>>52726716
when is the next ban announcement?

>>52728069
24th

>>52727672
back in rav-theros standard, I won 3 FNMs in a row and did well in a qualifier playing with a Simic Flash deck. I predated monoblue devotions with Skylasher, had a hard time vs UW Control and Monoblack Devotion.

The deck was pretty cheap and helped me increase my card pool for my Villainous Sultai Control in Theros-Khans standard.
Fun times casting Villainous Wealth with 12 mana, getting me my opponents planeswalkers, creatures and casting treasure cruise for more fun.

Nowadays, standard is boring and bres have a reall hard time pulling good results.

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>>52718191
>>52714438

>Playing Grixis Control
>Can beat Mardu Vehicles and CopyCat with decent opening hands fairly reliably
>Playing a round against this one kid who is pretty nice but has an absurd lisp
>Always says "Upkeep... duhwah" on each of his turns
>Within a few turns it's obvious he netdecked the Temur Dynavolt build right from MTGGoldfish card for card except for the Torrentials
>He makes mistakes like trying to use Horribly Awry on my Planeswalkers and Attune with Aether on my turn,
>Get mana flooded first game, no draw spells nor counterspells
>Kick the shit out of him game two because deck functions properly
>Game three cannot draw into any blue mana whatsoever and all I can do is stall
>Starts lecturing me at the end when he wins
>"Yeeaaah I just wearned that you weally need to countuh duhwah spells..." as he had thrown several Glimmers of Genius and Anticipates
>Point out I wanted to but I had no blue mana
>"...Yeeaaaah you weally need to countuh duhwah spells..."

I've never really cared much about winning or losing at FNM but that night started to get to me.

>>52728147
this was a gameday so we had something like 30 people int he shop that day, kaladesh it was
>like a third of the people brought rw vehicles
>a bit less than a third of people brought UW spirits
>UR thermo-thing-fevered meme
>BG marvel
overall I think less than 8 people had homebrews but my boy ended up high rolling everyone that day for the W

>>52727183
Really not sold on the UG Nissa 2bh.

It's scry and distraction. Not a bad card, but the opportunity cost of taking it over 2-4 other cards is what hurts.

It's also expensive and not something people are inclined to just try out. It actually needs to work and work well enough to justify losing those 2-4 cards.

>>52728467

If you play a deck fairly light on spells you can assume a good X value to drop her with and just start using her 0 ability immediately for free creatures or ramp.

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>>52727672
>R/B Zombies
>facing mardu vehicles
>G1 get the absolute nut of neonate activation > haunted dead > pitch 2 amalgams > untap with 9 power on T3
>he just couldn't compete and scoops
>get decimated G2 just as fast, had slow start, minimal interaction, against a hand full of gas
>G3 he's swinging lethal with a heart of kiran, a pair of toolcrafts, and something else which I'm blanking on.
>have BBB mana, neonate, and three creatures on board, IIRC spirit token, zombie token, haunted dead.
>neonate into Pariah
>this catches a lot of people off guard.
>sac three things
>he sacs three things
>block the heart of kiran
>he can't recover
That game will forever be held in my memories, I felt so satisfied. Too bad it wasn't in top. I don't even think I made top that night.

>>52728467
I prefer playing something like Kiora, the Crashing Wave. I used to play her in my Sultai control deck back in theros-khans standard.

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>>52727672

>Being the first time a netdecker has a loss against a Control deck
>Possibly being the first time they ever saw a Control deck
>They draw into their near empty hand on Turn 12+
>You see the light come back into their eyes
>Then that look when you immediately Void Shatter their believed top deck moment

Only thing that beats it is when you Flash in a Torrential to replay a Void Shatter since they know a robot is about to punch them in the face.

>>52728700
this makes me hard.

>>52728392
Am I the only one who thinks vehicles just fucked standard?

>>52729076
Nope. Vehicle power levels overall are too low to make in impact in other formats but in a standard where all the power is pushed onto creatures to begin with and the removal reflects this vehicles were too pushed

>>52729076
>>52729158

There should have been some greater risk to using Vehicles. Like if the Vehicle is destroyed the Crewed creatures are destroyed as well. But as it stands they just became way easier and safer to use Equipment combos in a meta with very little Instant removal.

>>52729076
>A two mana 3/3 that loots if it does something
>A two mana 4/4 flying vigilance
Yeah I think that's pretty fucked

>>52714128
actuallyseemslikefun/10

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>>52721062
I think we know what you mean.

>>52714128
I'd cut the snek from the side board for another by force, release the gremlins, or the 2/2 naturalize guy.

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Hey, trying to get some input and possibly a sideboard plan for a deck im working on. Anyone care to give some suggestions?

>>52730147
kaladesh was a mistake

>>52728380
well anon next time just countuh duhwah spells. you weally need to

>>52728147
I think part of that is them continuing to double down on the "carefully crafted standard environment" thing. It's obvious when something is pushed and when something isn't.

>>52728147
>Rav theros couple weeks after mono black became a thing

>playing junk reanimator (still one of my favorite standard decks)
>opponent is an ex judge, all promo lands. Makes a point of flashing various GP gear

>he's on mono black, and soon as he sees I'm not on a tier deck starts acting all smug "this should be quick"

> game 3 I whip back Lord of the void, exile his gray merchant, as soon as I reach for his merchant to cast it, yells that's enough and snatches up his cards and leaves.
>it was round 2

Glorious times

>>52713506
Questions will always be more powerful than answers. Or do you think Skullclamp should be unbanned in Modern because Ancient Grudge exists?

>>52730147
>>52735597
>>52729076

I think the fact that creatures with Summoning Sickness can Crew was a bit too much. I understand the mechanics on why it's fine since it's another card making them tap instead of them using a tap ability themselves but it made so many of the Vehicles vastly more mana efficient creature. In a vacuum a Heart of Kiran could easily start swinging in on Turn 3 while a Serra Angel might be able to start swinging in on Turn 6.

>>52736279
Of all the standard I regret not playing, Junk Reanimator is among the top. It looked so fun to play with.

You know things are bad when you want a Theros level set back.

Will mono-red finally be viable?

>>52736112
Sets these days look great on first glance. Lots of synergistic mechanics and cool plays. Just look at the Modules from Kaladesh. Everyone imagined you could build a deck that was like a machine with lots of triggers to remember and things going on. Then it all fell by the wayside as people realised that it was all slow and vehicles could just run people over.

Mark my words, the exact same is going to happen with I'monket. No -1/-1 counter related deck will be tier 1. It'll just be Mardu v Saheeli, then if the cat gets the axe it'll be Mardu v Gx midrange. The new Lilly is fucking bananas in a format where midrange can exist.

>>52736474
It was a great deck, I still have most of it sleeved.

Theros was repetitive but the gap between tier 1 and tier 2 was much closer than the shit we have now.

>play just-for-fun casual on MTGO
>just want to play mill with my shitty cards from drafts
>get stomped by decks that are 100% rares

zzz

>>52736531

They need ban Felidar Guardian and do something to strip Mardu Vehicles of some of its power. If they had improved on Control I don't think bannings would be necessary but threats are just getting even stronger and little is coming in the way of answers.

Still going to try to make Grixis Control work, though. I want to be ready for Bolas.

>>52736683
They need to ban Gideon is what they need to do, but that'll never happen.

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>>52736683
I hope they don't ban anything so I can punish the retards at my lgs who bought into mardu vehicles even more when harsh mentor drops

>>52737057
>I'm going to run this one card to punish one of the top decks!
Wow it's like you've learned absolutely nothing about why Standard is in the state it's in.

>>52737200
Because we have a hard hose for Saheeli in standard right now and it doesn't work?

>>52737200
because we have dozens of pushed creatures and planeswalkers and not enough solid answers to create a compelling format?

>>52713506
Could I bother you for a succinct explanation of spinning down dice?

>>52737946
They're 20-sided dice with the numbers arranged in a way that you only need move the die one face in a direction to find the next number down.

Because of this, they're not great for rolling.

>>52737982
>Because of this, they're not great for rolling.
Don't listen to this guy, he's likely autistic. If it rolls across the table, the number being selected is random.

>>52737982
>>52738017
adding on to this the only way the dice would not be fine for rolling is if it was balanced improperly, but this is true for any die. overall an imbalanced spin down will have greater deviations than a non-one but if you feel like this is happening then just replace the die in question

>>52737057
>turn 1 toolcraft exemplar
>your turn 1 land pass
>turn two heart of kiran, swing for 3
>your turn 2 harsh mentor
>turn 3 shock/fatal push + vetran motorist, swing for 8
>your turn 3, scoop

nothing was printed that changes the power of the deck
bannings are almost mandatory at this point with targets set on Heart of Kiran, Gideon Ally of Zendikar, and Felidar Guardian

>>52713506
I'm making a cheap skulk deck, any tips how should i play it? my actual strategy is based on just cheap creatures and blue counter shit like tapping and return to hand/deck, and then when i have many creatures i use a +2/ sorcery to all my creatures for the final attack

>>52736683
hardcore, oppressive control is actually what the format needs

when control is dominant it actually encourages different decks to emerge and often opens up formats since with control the deck is rarely winning on turn 3-5 and instead draws the game out for a long time trying to eventually just win through advantage meaning that for any deck playing against it they have time and options and while against some of the strongest control decks in history they may not have had an avenue for victory vs. most control decks there is usually a way to win or to keep playing the game even when down in advantage

vs. these current midrange/agro decks they just end the game on turn 4 so there is no real way to play the game with them. You either do your thing and win before they do or you. Keep interaction at a minimum and hope you draw your perfect curve.

I know people often don't like playing against control and complain when their cards get countered but ultimately the formats are healthier and more enjoyable when control is the top dog or at least one of the tier 1 contenders to keep the other decks honest

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>>52738097
show me on the doll where vehicles touched you anon

>>52738335
ok scenario #2
>them, toolcraft
>you: some 1 drop
>them Scrounger attack with toolcraft you either block and lose your creature if it has 1 or less attack or trade it it has over 2 attack
>you harsh mentor
>them unlicensed/shock/fatal push + a followup if not unlicensed
>you: now in a terrible position because you really need to think, do you develop a threat here and try to answer to board or do you just play a land and pass and leave up 3 mana in case they play gideon? what if they have Gideon and some other threat though so it doesn't matter how you play and no matter what they are going to have a good play in response to what you do? what if they still have removal since they run a huge chunk of it and you have only seen one of their 8-10 removal spells, fuck) make some play
>them: perfect answer in either the form of another board threat if you chose to leave your mana up or Gideon Ally of Zendikar if you chose to commit things to the board
>you scoop

this pattern ad infinitum
the deck possess too many threats with no way to answer all of them properly so you will always, always run into the situation where you are forced to play into a very bad situation where no matter the choice you make you will be punished for it because the deck is so consistent and versatile

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>>52738292

I agree wholeheartedly. My favorite games are the ones that stretch out into Turn 10+ and tons of options are available for both players.

Control is kind of like a necessary evil for Magic. People hate those frustrating matches when it can be a dominant force but once it's gone from a format that format quickly becomes a rushed piece of garbage where most cards are completely non-viable because people min/maxed out the quickest, most efficient Combo or Agro decks and the only thing that can reliably beat those decks is a mirror match that has a better opener.

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>>52738486
what trash deck do you play by chance anon? are you an upset saheeli player by chance? appropriate holiday pepe included, happy easter?

>>52738584

Not him but did you ever consider that a person just doesn't want to see a format where over half of the meta consists of two decks?

>>52738666
Nobody does realistically but this anon is just getting so ass mad over an implication that only he perceived that I have no choice but to antagonize him over it.
>HARSH MENTOR DOES NOTHING
>BAN MARDU VEHICLES OUT
>FUCKING STUPID BROKEN DECK REEEEEE
Like he's honestly creating scenarios where mardu vehicles is goldfishing except the other guy plays harsh mentor turn 2 and then says "nothing printed does nothing" ignoring the fact that next block green and red are getting decent artifact removal, harsh mentor hits more than just vehicles and is another PIECE that adds a roadblock to mardu vehicles, and realistically Saheeli combo is a larger cancer to the format than vehicles is

>>52738773
Greentext all you want, that is exactly how games against the deck go.

We're in a meta where we have literal hard counters to cat combo and it doesn't work, and Mardu Vehicles is so absurdly powerful either way that even banning out its top cards will allow it to remain as a viable archetype.

>>52738773
>>52739457

Even if those stories were some very optimal hands/plays for the proposed Mardu player they can still be plenty dangerous with much less optimal hands. Coping with their one drops getting buffed by either Heart of Kiran and/or Scrapheap Scrounger can be bad enough and it only gets worse if they can turn 4 a Gideon out.

I have managed to beat Mardu Vehicles with Grixis Control a few times at FNM but it was only with absolutely perfect opening hands where I could maintain board control to at least some extent before my Torrential Gearhulks could start hitting the field. It just can keep steamrolling along.

>>52738773
But his point is the power level is still so fucked right now that even if you have some counter cards there is no full deck that can compete.

If there was a new deck that ran all of these cards on the same power level yes it would work but right now they are just splashed or sided in current decks.

Maybe someone comes up with a good consistent and strong deck with new AMK stuff but mainly people will nitpick the strong cards from the set and add them to their vehicles and cat combo.

Saying X counters Y is just a bad argument because yeah it does but why don't I also always win game 2 and 3 every time if my side deck has the hard counters? Authority destroys cat combo so I should always beat it game 2/3 yeah?

>>52738773
You're forgetting that the vehicle deck can out-race a mentor even if they can't kill it.

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Rate my new trash build. Can it work?

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ALRIGHT LISTEN UP SENPAIS!
I really don't want to make another thread, so let's take mardu vehicles and see what can possibly make it stronger in this set, cause whatever can make it stronger from this set we definitely will see a few times in our local fnms, so let's see what kind of cancer we'll be facing come amonkhet. I'll start.
>Magma spray in sideboard to deal with mirror match scrapheaps
>New Gideon cause why not
>Cut to ribbons for meh removal with yet ANOTHER way to win in the long run.

>>52736474
>>52736616
Theros (and Khans) gave me Heroic, my favorite deck of all time. Plus I played like 3 other decks and they were all viable. I wish that standard would come back

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>>52741665
M15 standard best standard

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>>52741642

T W E L V E G I D E O N S

>>52741914
Core sets back when?

Is there a decent place to see peoples theorycrafts and brews in standard with the new Amonkhet stuff?

Why do people hate top decks on /tg/ so much? I understand that you guys like to often play fun decks but why get so mad at a lot of people playing better decks in a tournament, rather than bad but fun decks? Why not just play casually with people instead of getting mad at competitive lists being played in a competitive environment?

This question isn't specifically about the current state of standard, but I noticed it all the time on /tg/ when it comes to this shit for years now.

>>52742384
>Why not just play casually with people instead
because we dont have any friends to play casually with.

>>52742404

>dont have any friends to play casually with

Is this the true dragon why /tg/ hates standard?

>>52742384
>Why do people hate top decks on /tg/ so much?
>but I noticed it all the time on /tg/ when it comes to this shit for years now.

only cause you're going to threads for shit formats like standerp. It's literal trash taht gets solved in a month or two

>>52742384
my favorite meme is
>x and y are the strongest decks in the format and are cancer
>anon a posts that his deck does okay
>anon b immediately asks to see list
>everyone proceeds to shit on anon a and state that his list is shit and there is no way his deck beats anything
>eventually ends with being told to play x or y
it doesn't happen every time but it happens often enough

>>52742767

Are you sure people are shitting on his deck or making constructive changes to help the deck run better and the poster probably you get too butthurt at people picking apart the posted list?

>>52742790
nah i've never posted a standard list on here and in truth it happens more often in the modern general than the standard one, but you see it here as well

>>52742790
I know for a fact that I do it but you only see this shit happen when someone says they want the best deck they can get for the format but refuse to accept that what they want to play will not accomplish what they want to do

>>52742868
>>52742790
you know what I take it back that is usually what happens

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Do we have any way of knowing what the promos will be for the amonkhet pre release?

>>52743624
Yes.

Is it a rare or a mythic in the set?

Congrats, you'll pull the shittiest one. The guy next to you will pull the one that will be the most expensive in two weeks. But don't worry, he'll sell it for a cool 15 when it'll be fifty by May.

>>52743723
This is what happened to me, got a bedlam reveler in EMN and my friend got a lili, then pulled another one from the packs

>>52743759
I've been pretty ho-hum with pulls since EMN, but I made my brother's day that prerelease. He couldn't make it, but wanted to buy a kit, so I just decided I'd play with his and then give him the cards.

My promo was the Grafwidow (and he's a timmy that wanted to make it for Spider Delirium EDH), and then I ended up getting top8 and I pulled a foil Lili and a foil Grim Flayer.

I'm really happy I had good luck in a set I like, since it'd be a shame to have wasted fortune on shit like Kaladesh or Amonkhet

>>52742384
I don't hate people who use top decks. I hate it when the top decks (2 in this case) are so oppressive it horribly affects the environment. Like KTK standard got rhino memes, but there was a solid variation of T1 decks that you could expect to see in top 8s of major events.
Where as now there is exclusively an infinite combo that can end the game t4 if you do not have interaction, and an aggro deck that can outrace and outlast afloat everything else.

>>52744224
Don't forget that aggro deck has way to grind out with unkillable scrap heap, thraben inspector for added card draw, and best planeswalker pumping out threats while being one himself.

I miss Theros Khan standard, like u said meme rhinos, but there were definitely ways to go around, I remember running jund whip, shit was cash and fun as fuck, beat rhinos and it only really lost to atarka red but draws most of the time. And control, but my meta didn't have much control players thankfully, despite ub control totally being an option during that time.

>>52744368
Nut draws*

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>>52743833
>>52743759
>>52743723
>kaladesh pre-release 1: dubious challenge
>kaladesh pre-release 2: madcap experiment

>>52741929
Christ Gideon Control is going to be a shit match up

>>52738335
hi YMS

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>>52713506
Is this card good? I feel like it's okay if you don't draw your discarder and need haunted dead/scrap in the grave asap

as time goes on, I'm more and more convinced that Wizards absolutely needs to ban Heart and Guardian to have any hope whatsoever of a format that's even moderately playable

we have the Amonkhet spoiler now - can anyone see a deck out there they genuinely believe is going to hang w Mardu and Cat? I know blah blah blah it's still early give it time for the pros to test or whatever, but, seriously, just going off your gut right now

>>52745059
good in limited in a br hellbent deck or a bw zombies/embalm deck. not too good otherwise

>>52745247
what about pauper?

>>52745059
It isn't bad but you could probably find something that does any or all of its jobs better

>>52738017
>If it rolls across the table, the number being selected is random.

Not really true. If it rolls across the table, and the roller wasn't paying attention to how they rolled it, then it's random. But if high numbers are clustered on one half of the die, it's not too hard to get used to the die well enough to skew your results by using the correct amount of force in the throw and knowing which side was top-up in the hand.

So it's fine if you trust the person rolling.

>>52745153
Between Amon and Innistrad Zombies seem flooded on support. I don't think it will unquestionably be better, but a B/W Zombie deck is probably the best deck coming out of Amon. It's got a new lord, the mimic from Aether, and a bunch of Zombies matter cards. Maybe a cycling midrange control deck with Archfiend of Ifnir. Other than that, RB madness gets tons of support. All 3 of these can compete, but what will happen is that Heart will still see play due to being insane. Personally, I think cat combo is fine. It is no doubt good, but I find it much less oppressive than Mardu vehicles, which is just a straight value machine on Speed.

>>52745153
I think some sort of midrange deck has to come out that also has cheap removal.

Red seems like the best color for cheap removal but I'm not sure what a super strong midrange build would be. It would also need to maindeck answers to mardu/cat without just adding them in for the sake of countering, as in said answers need to be in the deck for synergy not for countering.

Maybe some kind of R/G deck that also sports tribal synergy? R/W seems promising as well. I think fling can and that turn ender are both super strong against the meta decks right now

>>52728380
Getting lectured by autists is easily the worst part of this game. I'd rather get flamed online.

>>52728380
Just reading this pisses me off, and it didn't even happen to me.

>>52745719
pauper is a meme

I want to make a screw around deck before Amonkhet.

How viable is a black/blue discard decK?

Do artifact improvise decks actually work or is it just a bad mechanic?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-04-17-ub-summonings/


Gonna post again because I really need help. In hour of devo grasp of darkness, ruinous path and others get rotated out. I need to make some changes to keep this semi viable. I'm thinking esper colours. So what would I need to do to the land base to get 3 blessed alliance in there, 3 anguished unmaking and some sideboard white cards

>>52748436
>artifact improvise decks
So you mean attempting to build a 60 card deck out of and around a mechanic that has existed for all of one set?

Why?

That's like building the godawful Warriors tribal or Dash decks back in Tarkir. You're not only operating on the limited cardpool of Standard in the post-Coreset world, but are also arbitrarily limiting yourself to building around a single mechanic.

It's moronic.

If you like artifacts, and you like Improvise, pick the only actually good card that fulfills both and build some jank around Whir of Invention.
Then when it spikes up into the next Chord of Calling because some other format found a way to break it (probably Frontier because lolno interaction) you'll at least have a playset to sell off and buy an actually good deck with.

Fuck.

>>52748571
improvise works pretty good with affinity

>>52748571
why did they get rid of core sets again?

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>>52748647
bad sales, but more importantly no story telling.

Fun little shit list I'll be playing. That is if they ban Felidar/Saheeli; if they don't I'll just keep playing that.

>>52748710
meant to paste this in

4x Torrential Gearhulk
1x Gideon of the Trials
1x Dovin Baan
2x Pull from Tomorrow
4x Censor
3x Disallow
3x Cast Out
1x Negate
3x Blessed Alliance
2x Fumigate
1x Skywhaler's Shot
4x Anticipate
4x Glimmer of Genius
2x Renewed Faith
4x Port Town
4x Prairie Stream
4x Irrigated Farmland
3x Westvale Abbey
2x Grasping Dunes
7x Island
1x Plains

3x Fragmentize
2x Negate
2x Dispel
1x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1x Quarantine Field
2x Gideon's Intervention
1x Fumigate
1x Linvala, the Preserver
2x Authority of the Consuls

>>52748661
Couldn't they have just done more origins? Flip planeswalkers were pretty neat.

>>52736523
>finally viable
You mean like burn?

>no talk of the turn 4 fling kill
/tg/ please

>>52749077
Isn't that a 4 card combo in colors without card selection?

Am I wrong or there's a lot of decent card draw in this set? Could a WU/Jeskai control shell work?

>>52748661
>playing magic for the story telling

Now this is autism. Magic writing is trashy fanfic-tier

>>52750173
I play Magic for the story telling, always have. Once because it was a unique medium with mildly entertaining tales. Now because I'm a masochist that wants to see just how badly they can ruin the thing he liked.

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>>52748436
Just constructed Grixis Improvise in more control way, and it is fun to pilot. When you tap your junk artifacts into Herald of Anguish - this shit is really satisfying. And Metall Rebuke always surprises opponent, because it is often a 1-mana manaleak.
On the other hand, my LGS doesn't have many top-list decks and it's pretty casual environment on FNM's. After Amonknet I will do some testings against new meta decks.
Also, look at that bad boy! Really love this art!

>>52749096
would card selection even matter? when would you have time to "use" that card selection in a deck that wants to win on turn 4 only.

>>52750062
Personally im all in on U/W. I've been on Jeskai variants for roughly a year now, but if I want to cast Gideon of the Trials on turn 3 while also being able to cast Disallow, I need the consistency of a 2 color manabase.

>>52751068
It won't have it's pieces on turn 4 ergo, won't win on turn 4.

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>>52750173
>tfw you like trashy fanfic

>>52742384

I just hate it when the top decks are so incredibly easy to use like Mardu Vehicles is right now. There is no strategy, no careful planning, no real need to worry about player interaction. Just play your land and slap down whatever you can play. You onlu have to worry about if you have an artifact to buff your Exemplars and a way to crew your Heart of Kiran.

And apparently CopyCat was a complete oversight. And those two make up at least 60% of our meta.

>>52720603

It's not a problem and U/B zombies works fine it just forces you to have a hand with removal early for the cat all the time so you're kinda forced into playing a slower controlling game against a deck you don't want to play a slower game against.

So how does Dynavolt Tower look with Amonkhet? Dead even more?

>>52721347

It's more the fact that if you're in black you would have to hold back a way to trigger Fatal Push revolt or constantly hold back BB for Grasp of Darkness to hit the cat. But at the same time you must pressure or you will just lose.

>>52727672
>haven't play magic since joining the navy
>after i get out talk about going to fnm with friends
>zend-mirrodin build U/G levelers
>go 4-1 beating two pod decks, vamp tribe and eldrazi
> pod players and vamp players sperg out and leave, one throws his deck

>>52753387
Toast. Manglehorn is GG for the list

>>52753387
>>52756813

What pisses me off about this is that Dynavolt builds were the ONLY build that had 5%+ representation in the meta that I don't utterly hate and now it's the only one that's getting decimated unless some bannings happen.

>>52752294
this might hold true at lower levels of skill
but the reality is that at high levels the current two deck matchup is some of the most skill intensive gameplay we have had in a long time

the issue is that it isn't the kind of skill people are really used to
its not so much about playing the board as it is playing your opponents hand and top deck so you not only have to be very good at predicting things with limited information but you also have to understand lines of play 5 turns in advance when you have seen your opponents play on turn 1 alone which can be very hard

that said I do not like this kind of skill and I also understand that for people that don't want to be thinking 4-5 turns in advance and trying to predict playlines based off of a single land drop things can be very frustrating and the deck is so powerful that if you want you can play it on auto-pilot

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WE

>>52758585
>make Egyptian plane
>everyone is white
kek

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>>52713506
R8 my memecycle deck:
// 60 Maindeck
// 7 Creature
4 Archfiend of Ifnir
1 Ruthless Sniper
2 Curator of Mysteries
// 11 Enchantment
4 Cast Out
4 New Perspectives
3 Faith of the Devoted
// 12 Instant
4 Censor
3 Deem Worthy
2 Pull from Tomorrow
3 Renewed Faith
// 25 Land
4 Sheltered Thicket
3 Canyon Slough
4 Fetid Pools
4 Scattered Groves
4 Irrigated Farmland
4 Island
2 Swamp
// 3 Planeswalker
2 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Dovin Baan
// 2 Sorcery
2 Stir the Sands
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Ruthless Sniper
// 3 Enchantment
SB: 3 Drake Haven
// 8 Instant
SB: 3 Forsake the Worldly
SB: 3 Shadow of the Grave
SB: 2 Haze of Pollen
// 2 Sorcery
SB: 2 Sweltering Suns

>>52760004
kek, the paste is an old version. Current version is in the image:
2 Curator of mysteries
2 Archfiend
4 Renewed Faith
4 Canyon slough
3 Spendid Reclamation in sideboard

Kek-based god when

Been running Grixis Improvise through the whole standard and had a good time. Now I'm thinking about Esper Control, what you think /tg/?

>>52760389
5 color copycat. Do it. All the cool kids on MTGO are.

So far I've tested out Black/White Zombies, Red/Green Big Guys, and Blue/Red Instants. The lists are rough draft as hell, but the basic ideas are in there.

UR Instants
-------------------
Instant (21)
4x Anticipate
3x Epiphany at the Drownyard
4x Essence Scatter
4x Harnessed Lightning
2x Negate
4x Shock
Creature (12)
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Cryptic Serpent
4x Enigma Drake
Land (24)
12x Island
12x Mountain
Enchantment (3)
3x Oath of Jace
--------------------
RG Big Guys
--------------------
Creature (24)
4x Bristling Hydra
3x Glorybringer
4x Lathnu Hellion
3x Rhonas the Indomitable
2x Samut, Voice of Dissent
4x Servant of the Conduit
4x Voltaic Brawler
Land (22)
4x Cinder Glade
6x Forest
7x Mountain
1x Plains
4x Sheltered Thicket
Instant (8)
4x Harnessed Lightning
4x Magma Spray
Sorcery (6)
4x Attune with Aether
2x Sweltering Suns
---------------------
BW Zombies
---------------------

Creature (31)
4x Cryptbreaker
4x Diregraf Colossus
4x Dread Wanderer
4x Lord of the Accursed
4x Metallic Mimic
3x Plague Belcher
4x Relentless Dead
4x Wayward Servant
Land (21)
4x Concealed Courtyard
5x Plains
4x Shambling Vent
8x Swamp
Instant (8)
4x Fatal Push
4x Grasp of Darkness
Creature (31)
4x Cryptbreaker
4x Diregraf Colossus
4x Dread Wanderer
4x Lord of the Accursed
4x Metallic Mimic
3x Plague Belcher
4x Relentless Dead
4x Wayward Servant
Land (21)
4x Concealed Courtyard
5x Plains
4x Shambling Vent
8x Swamp
Instant (8)
4x Fatal Push
4x Grasp of Darkness

I don't think any of these decks are particularly good or unique, but I wanted to share the basic ideas. A lot of tweaking would be needed before any of these reached final cut.

>>52713506
>What if you enchant yourself?

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Are you ready?

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>>52762854
Old meme

>>52762854
(You)

>>52713506
Does this apply to tokens like Ants?
Because if so it's a total FUCK YOU to swarming green decks.

>>52762854
DESU the card was realistic enough people could believe its real. Even if it were printed. Would it see any play?

>>52763171
The irony is that 8 mana vanilla 20/20 is not that great because no evasion. In the right deck Craterhoof Behemoth is just better.

>>52763030
I would think so since it doesn't say "non-token creature"

>>52746408
Cat Combo isn't awful in itself, it's just that it invalidates a lot of strategies just by existing. Like, playing a board-control game around cycling and Archfiend is kind of a perfect example of something that just feels like total shit against a more control-oriented Cat deck.

>>52746807
The problem is, I'm pretty sure that the best version of "midrange deck that plays red and has cheap removal" is just going to still be actual Mardu Vehicles. Like, right? That's just Mardu Vehicles.

also this isn't strictly related but gosh Rishkar is such a good, fun, well-designed card. I fucking love that dude. I should go make a Rishkar deck and see if that's any good.

>>52764191
Its probably the most difficult hurdle R&D faces: How to make decks that fall into the same archetype feel different and unique while still being strong competitively. When some cards are so good they polarize archetypes into very specific colors it can feel like an uphill battle. R/G Monsters, Mardu Vehicles, and B/G Counters all fall into the same basic archetype, but Mardu Vehicles is so far and away the best option these decks that are obviously getting pushed cards for them just can't compete. This comes back to the problem of Heart of Kiran. The card can go into any of these strategies, but the Vehicle synergy in Mardu just makes it insane. Vehicles were a fun idea, but between Smug Copter and Heart they've shown that they didn't understand how to make these cards balanced. If they wanted a vehicle for PW decks they should've made it crew 5 with the loyalty ability. Smugglers copter I don't know how to fix without making ti shit. Maybe require a blue creature to pilot it.

>>52763222
Fling, my good anon.

>>52762878
I miss Trample.

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>>52748340
You mean self discard? I dunno. Too me it looks like those colors have the most rewards, but red looks like it might have the most enablers. I'd probably try to build the deck with quite a bit of looting and rummaging.

>>52765015
>>52748340
Wait, did you mean excluding amonkhet cards? because I was including them.

Anyone running anything with Archfiend of Ifnir? I want to fuck around with him in something but I can't brew worth shit.

>>52764373
I think the problem with vehicles is they are based on power to crew not converted mana cost. It's not even their base power either which is pants on head levels of retarded.

Did they just forget cheap high attack low health cards and buffs existed when they made vehicles?

>>52765015
>shulk
What a fucking worthless mechanic. I've never once seen that in play ever. Even tribute had a card that saw fringe play.

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>>52765282
It is not the mechanic that is bad.
It is that the mechanic was never printed on a creature even remotely mana efficient.

The closest was what, Pale Rider?

It didn't help that Thraben Inspector was printed in SOI and so many people were running it. It's funny, because usually Wizards thinks about this, at least superficially. I could go dig up an M-files article specifically talking about adding the "cannot be blocked by scions" clause to Kor Castigator to enable a 3/1 in a block with easy token generation.

>>52765282
In fairness to them, I'm pretty sure they've realized that - I remember reading somewhere that they figured out it wasn't actually good

>>52765369
>It didn't help that Thraben Inspector was printed in SOI and so many people were running it. It's funny, because usually Wizards thinks about this, at least superficially. I could go dig up an M-files article specifically talking about adding the "cannot be blocked by scions" clause to Kor Castigator to enable a 3/1 in a block with easy token generation.

This really just goes back to the broad, overarching point that the Development side of R&D has been stunningly and consistently incompetent for approximately 2 or 3 years at this point, because that's exactly the kind of thing that's development's job

>>52765282
worst part is that skulk is officially an evergreen ability, expect to see it a whole lot

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>>52765282
Well maybe Creation's 'you may rummage your entire hand' will make skulk see constructed play.


>>52765369
Thanks for reminding me about Pale Rider. Maybe it could be used in the hellbent deck.

>>52765413
No it isn't. It was introduced as a keyword ability with the hope it would stick around to be evergreen. WotC's official stance is that it's a flop.

>>52765414
Pale Rider might be worse than Heir of Falkenrath. No reason the hellbent can't run both though.

>>52765428
>Print it on all shit cards
>Same set where we push cheap zombies hard
>Guess it's just a bad mechanic guys!
Please tell me wizards isn't actually like this

>>52765282
>shulk
What's the matter anon? You not really feeling it?

>>52765616
It's reception isn't the only reason it's considered a flop.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/storm-scale-innistrad-and-shadows-over-innistrad-2017-03-27

>>52765794
I don't think they considered how Skulk was going to work.

It's best on intermediate creatures, that can run over mana dorks and bears, while avoiding big stuff. That's not the type of creature a keyword like Skulk is meant for.

Too bad they're going ahead with >>52762878
and that attempt at replacing trample.

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>>52764655
still here

>>52765282

Wharf Infiltrator actually saw fringe play. Right up until the printing of Liliana, Last Hope.

So is everyone appropriately surprised by the announcement of a meso-american block?

Who could have guessed.

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>>52727672
Literally the finest feeling in all mtg.
>>52728147
I've been doing pretty well with a brew lately. R/W vehicles :^)
It's actually creatureless, except for two splashed trophy mages. In the game day semi-finals I got to activate peacewalker colossus on a caravan, use the caravan to crew the colossus, then use the colossus to crew a dreadnought, and finally use the dreadnought to crew a renegade freighter. My opponent was very confused until I played tenacity.

>>52770309
>Creatureless vehicles
Got a list?

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>>52770416
Sure.

4 Start your engines
2 Tenacity

3 Blessed alliance - removal that also helps vehicles crew other vehicles
4 shocks - concession to copycat
2 fumigate - seriously, why are we in a world where agro decks are the ones using wraths?

3 Sram's Expertise
2 trophy mage
3 veteran motorist - I suppose that makes 5 creatures

4 consulate dreadnought
4 peacewalker colossus
3 cultivator's caravan
2 renegade freighter - should probably just be Heart, but I refuse to put that much money into standard
2 aradra express - I like trains

22 lands - 4 aether hub, some plains and mountains, whatever r/w or r/u or u/w duals you have lying around.

It's really fun, and competitive enough you'll still have game against tier 1 lists. It's also cheap as hell, and survives the next rotation with minimal changes. All the new artifact hate in Amonkhet may be annoying, though.

>>52769748
I thought there was a leak a while back that had people saying it was the atlantis block. So a bit surprised, I guess.

>>52714727
I keep wanting to do Diregraf Colossus but it ends up feeling like an anti-synergy with all the graveyard effects. My main thing was Cryptbreaker, Relentless Dead, Scrapyard Scrounger, Haunted Dead, Prized Amalgam. It's better as a BR deck that doesn't even try to cast the amalgams, but I'd run it mono-black because it's more fun to me. Probably switching to black-white for Amonkhet.

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Yes goy, keep buying into Standard on every rotation. It's more fun for you!

>>52770635
>tenacity
I didn't even know that existed, that's hilarious

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Is anyone else brewing with crush? I've been having great success with it in my GBx meta, but I haven't gotten to play much against copycat.

1 Haze of Pollen
2 Baral's Expertise
3 Lumbering Falls
11 Island
1 Botanical Sanctum
4 Crush of Tentacles
5 Forest
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4 Contingency Plan
2 Spontaneous Mutation
3 Seasons Past
4 Pieces of the Puzzle
3 Jaddi Offshoot
4 Splendid Reclamation
4 Grapple with the Past
2 Greenwarden of Murasa
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Void Shatter
1 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods

My list is pretty good at not dying against midrange until turn 5 then taking over with baraal's expertise into splendid reclamation. If the opponent makes me play it out, the deck wins by milling everything except for seasons past and locking the opponent out with Kozilek. Seasons past is probably my favorite part of the deck because it adapts really well to whatever situation I'm in and can allow for heavy stalling. 4x Evolving wilds and Jaddi offshoot prevent burn out from ULD, and it's often worth repeating a few cycles of lifegain before going for the win. However, I really doubt that it can do anything to copycat.

>>52721046

I don't think the green God is a step down from nylea at all, I think he's easier to turn on and he attacks a turn sooner

>>52736360

"In a vacuum" heart of kiran can't swing at all

>>52736360

Your suggestion is bad, that would make vehicles totally unplayable, as it is only 4 are playable, and only copter and heart of kiran are popular

The problem is clearly the fact that heart of kiran and smuggler's copter are so pushed in mana cost p/t and low crew cost, and not with the vehicle design in general

>>52765818
I think they understood skulk well enough, but I agree with their assessment that skulk's design space is too shallow for an evergreen creature. I like the mechanic because it appears very simple and elegant and has some interesting interactions and deals with some issues straight unblockability has, but I get that the range of things that can get skulk is a lot narrow than, say, trample or flying. Those abilities will (almost, a 1/1 trampler is pointless for example but yeah) always matter with the creature they're put on. After a certain point, probably like 2-3, skulk becomes irrelevant. I guess Deathtouch has kind of a similar problem, but it interacts with more things and will matter in more ways than skulk does which just doesn't matter at all if it's not turned on. Deathtouch interacts with other keywords and abilities like dealing damage.

I do wish they would use reverse-menace as green's evasion though. The "can't be blocked by more than one creature" thing. I forget what they call it (Daunt I think). But I haven't seen it so much lately so they must have decided they didn't like it.

>>52773365
If you discard a non-zombie card with embalm to crypt breaker, that doesn't help the colossus.

>>52736360
Vehicles are more mana efficient than creatures because they need to be paired with another creature to work. It's kind of like how, for example, you can get these -1/-1 counter creatures in Amonkhet to be well above curve when they enter if you control another creature. It's a pretty common design thing. The logic is sound, on top of them wanting vehicles to make a good impression by having them look and be powerful. I do agree that they probably undervalued granting cast creatures effective haste though which could maybe make it so vehicles could be scaled down in size and still be playable.

>>52728380
You clearly didn't have enough dedodated wamm.

>>52769748
>>52773267
Hey, mang. We waz 'lantienz, que?

>>52775872
Please no. I've already seen enough 'we wuz' shitposting to last a lifetime.

>everyone is misreading the next set thinking it's going to be atlantean themed
>it's going to be Atlanta themed
Finally a set as diverse as I feel on the inside, with no whiteness at all

>>52769748
How do you know anything besides what the name is?

>>52774663
Nylea gives everyone else trample and her pump, even if it costs 1 more, gives +2/+2, as opposed to +2/+0. That said, Rhonas is certainly better than the other gods in the set from what I can tell.

>it's another "I landed a walker and you couldn't do shit so you lose" game
>it's another "I topdecked another Gideon in a board stall and won" game
im going to murder maro

>>52773267

Rigt from the beginning I was saying t was mesoamerican but retards insisted it was Atlantis, when obviously it's mesoamerican or possibly both

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>>52776461
>one fag at LGS runs walker.dek
>the only way to win if you're not running Saheeli is to just take him out as soon as humanly possible before he starts to amass walkers, at which point once he gets 2 you're pretty much dead man walking. It's far too hard to try and keep both of ulting while not letting him just keep going.
>now I have to kill that fucking gideon on top of dealing with lifegain from shit like Sorin.
God fucking damn.

>moved a few cities over
>local mtg scene is lame
>decide to think about playing online
>mtgo is a bigger money trap than the physical game

what do, anons? ygo has ygopro, do we have a good 3rd party?

>>52775218
"Daunt" is problematic for limited if in too high quantities because if it is on a big enough body it just eats up too much advantage on the board unless the opponent can either get out a bigger threat (which will be much more difficult if they're on the losing end of things) or unless they have the removal to take it out. Menace allows a deck with a lot of weaker creatures to have a chance at taking out a bigger creature which Daunt prevents.

I like the idea behind the ability and generally think it's better than Menace but it would cause hell in limited

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>>52748661
>Glow in the dark cards
That would be fucking slick

Anyways I'm going to put this 'dies to removal' meme to the test and cram all the Removal I can into a deck and try to play Control.
I'm going to go B/G, I'd go monoblack but it can't pop artifacts. B/R seems like it will have more options but Hellbent is being pushed as a better option anyways.
Enchantments are really going to define decks this meta. Without Naturalize white is going to have the best non-creature removal in Standard, meaning the Gideon deck is going to be packing.

>>52776465
Doing Atlantis + Mesoamerica would be rad as hell but they probably won't because it's too out there and conspiratorial, and also because it would almost certainly be offensive

It does feel interesting that they've now gone to the real-world-culture inspired well for 3 blocks in a row now. Obviously every block is based on something from the real world, but Amonkhet is top-down Egyptian and Kaladesh feels like it wears its Indian influences on its sleeve. In contrast, Innistrad draws largely from fictional tropes, as does Zendikar (Cthulhu + adventures and shit), and while Tarkir definitely was influenced by a lot of real-world Asian cultures, it didn't feel anywhere near as prominent an influence compared to Kaladesh or Amonkhet.

>>52776868
99% sure the mesoamerican block is going to be a fantasy retelling along the lines of the conquest of the new world. The original title of the second block was "conquest for power" after all

>>52776868
Zendikar was also the same kind of thing as Kaladesh, though I feel it more seemlessly blended its core concept ("lands matter world") with its visual motif it uses to convey the mechanics ("adventure world") than Kaladesh did. It's almost a perfect blend really. Kaladesh was clearly "artifact plane that isn't Mirrodin because Mirrodin is dead world" that uses an Indian aesthetic to convey the mechanic but the fusion of the two is not as perfect as Zendikar. All worlds will have some sort of flavorful motif so really we won't ever get a world that's purely "x mechanic world" anymore like Mirrodin was pretty much just "artifact world".

>>52776967
>>52776868
I lost my point among all those wordswordswords. My point was Ixalan might not be top down mesoamerica world, and we just haven't seen the mechanical theme driving it.

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I want to get into Magic and preferably play a Black deck with Vampires + their servants.

Could anyone be Nice enough to tell me what cards/packs to look out for or where I can get more Info on how to build a decent deck?

>>52776868
I'm honestly sick of the "Foreign area" theme they have going.

Khans was done well, it has the feel of the various places they copied from, but the story still took full center, Kaladesh was crap for a variety of reasons, and Amonkhet is the worst thematically, because its just like fucking Theros.

and by that I mean its literally "copy-pasta" Egyptian shit, Theros was a tad worse, every card or creature was "see, its that thing from greek mythology!", making the whole set and all the cards in it paint by fucking numbers.

Amonkhet has that same fucking feel, I don't want "its Mesoamerica+MAGIC!" or anything else, I want fantastical worlds unlike anything i've seen before (like Zendikar and Mirrodin) not "a place I can go to in real life with shiny glitz everywhere".

>>52714573
And 20% 12Chad?

>>52777062
If you're doing standard all the vamps that are legal are in shadows over innistrad and eldritch moon. I built my brother a cheap vampire deck for 10 dollars using B/R for his birthday last month.

Challenge: Build a cheap and fun RW Vehicles deck that doesn't rely on Heart of Kiran, Gideon or Felidar Guardian. Not too weak and not too overpowered

Protip: Can you?

>>52777244
There are some Aether-revolt ones. are there any good support choices to put tokens to activate their effects?

>>52758585
That guy doesn't even look black.

>>52777296
>RW Vehicles deck that doesn't rely on Heart of Kiran or Gideon
>Underpowered
Choose two

>>52776967
>>52776978
My point is just that Kaladesh's aesthetic was very much drawn from a specific real-world culture in a different way that with Zendikar - and it seems like Ixalan is also going to be drawing from a specific real-world culture for its flavor, however that flavor gets integrated into the set. I think the point about bottum-up is totally right on, but I'm just talking about the source that's being drawn on.

>>52777070
I'm not ready to say it's bad yet but I'm definitely a little skeptical. I will say Amonkhet is a little different because of the Bolas stuff, and I imagine they have a big curveball ready for us in HOD.

>>52777296
Aethersphere Harvester is good I guess, but it's just always going to be correct to play Heart and Gideon in that deck, which is the frustrating thing.

>>52777244
>>52777509
What about Drana and Kalitas?

>>52777509
there is one enchantment that lets you discard a card to make one vamp token, other than that not really. the aether revolt ones don't have any synergy with the other vampires at all, they just have the tribal slapped on for lore reasons.

>>52777968
Drana and Kal are both kind of pricey and I would advise against him spending a lot of money if it's his first deck.

I imagine you want tokens for pariah but she is honestly not made for vampires her synergy is with zombies as odd as it may seem.

Make a Red/Black vampire deck with madness cards to start out with, I suggest using an app called forge as it's free and automated against AI opponents. Once you learn how the game works you can move up to manual apps like cockatrice

>>52721202
The reason to not go tricolor is twofold: consistent mana and you don't really need to. Between GotT, Cast Out, and Renewed Faith there is now enough good white control cards to build a straight UW control deck. You miss out on manlands, but I personally will be running Westvale Abbey to help mitigate that.

As for the mana, you want to be able to cast GotT or Disallow on turn 3 which is more difficult in a tricolor deck.

>>52741059
I can dig it. Biggest issues are lack of plays before turn 3. also Painful Truths is bad divination in that deck unless you draw your hubs.

>>52777296
Sure - see >>52770635

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What was the thought process behind this card?

>>52780076
like looter scooter but in limited

>>52780076
It's a common so,
My 1/1 from turn 1 is now a 2/3 Flyer turn 3.

For the rare version lets give it +1 Power and make it draw a card whenever it's involved in combat.

>>52776316
It's an assumption. Ixalan has very similar vowel-consonant structures as words like teotl, tecpatl, tlappan, oaxaca, zapotec, Huaxyacac etc.

It's like seeing D'avenant and thinking the set has at least some French influence. It's probably accurate.

>>52776868
Innistrad is straight up New England + Frontier.
Read Cotton Mather, read Crevecoeur, read Washington Irving, read the appropriate non-Cthulhu Lovecraft (Horror at Red Hook, Pickman's Model, etc.)

There's definitely fantasy elements added in that don't appear in any of those author's works (namely flip-cards, which is more Stevenson than anything else), but the denunciation of the frontier hunters in Letters from an American Farmer is very clearly a source of inspiration for the Green side of Innistrad.

>>52762475
R/G deck looks fun, though I think it is in need of some Pummler, over used as is.

Speaking of which, I can't wait to put fling into my current Pummler deck. To long have I been denied access to trample at crucial moments...

>>52781823
some sort of New England Gothic is certainly one of the traditions that Innistrad is drawing from, but that's actually my point - it's drawing from horror genre tropes (one of which is New England Gothic), which is a step removed from real world cultures.

Like, there is a difference between something that's drawing on a literary corpus or a literary tradition, like the Puritan New England horror stories you're pointing to, and something whose inspiration is just "India" or "Egypt" or (presumably) "The Aztecs". What is going on in Innistrad is not an attempt to make a set based on the culture of New England settlements; it's invoking a set of moods, settings, tropes, themes, etc from a body of literature.

I dunno. That's just how it seems to me.

Help me make bw tokens factory deck. Hidden stockpile is fun

>>52782315
What annoys me in particular is that the "India-inspired" set has almost fuck all to do with India at all. The only thing remotely Indian about it is Saheeli and the decorations, IIRC there are hardly even any brown skinned people. It was more focused on Chandra and her righteous overthrow of an abusive government and something-something Aetherborn.
And Not-Egypt is shaping up to be about the same damn thing too. From what I see in the set there is very few actual inspiration from Egypt itself and more just Gatewatch performing actions to inflate their ego and B O L A S with a slight ancient Egyptian theme.

>>52782372
>tfw when Bolas means Balls in Spanish
In spicland i can't say his name in a card shop without making someone chuckle

>>52782315
The first two authors I listed are very much nonfiction and both pre-date Gothic fiction.

I'm not disputing that Innistrad draws from New England Gothic. But it also draws heavily from New England as a nonfiction setting. Calling it Fantasy New England is not far from accurate in the same way that calling Kaladesh a Fantasy India is not far from accurate.

>>52759951
I don't want to derail into /pol/ shit, but in terms of genetic distance, it's more accurate than them being black (for Pharonic-era Egyptians and modern Copts, at least).

>>52782519
Why the Amonkhetis couldn't have just been an indeterminate and always-changing brown like Gideon is beyond me.

>>52782507
I would definitely say there's a substantial gap between the relationship Kaladesh has to India, and the relationship Innistrad has to New England, although I acknowledge that Mather and Crevecoeur were writing non-fiction-ish. I don't think invoking the themes and experiences of Mather and Crevecoeur means it's depicting New England.

Especially because that's not the only source for Innistrad, and the other sources are much more explicitly fictional.

>>52782354
I'd start with servo tribal with all creatures being servo lords (e.g. Chief of the Foundry). From there I might add a sacrifice theme (e.g. Marionette Master).

Or you could just try and net deck decks with hidden stockpile, pick one you like and tune it to your taste and meta. Or use them to draw inspiration for a brew, pulling some elements from a bunch of different builds (if applicable).