I realized what I hate about the Tau in 40K, /tg/. The Imperium

>So. Any historians or socialist/communist state afficianados here? How could we remedy the way the Tau are written and depicted to be to communism what The Empire is to fascist theocracy?
Make it like it currently is, but everybody's starving.

>>52695799
I believe they're largely intended as an Orwell reference. The Etherials are manipulative tyrants who force the other Tau into defined castes from birth, unable to breed outside or change their position. Everything is for the Greater Good. They're set up to be pretty dystopian.

>>52695799
I don't think everything has to be a direct analog to our world. The imperium exists as it does because it HAS to in the lore. They state ad nauseum that anything anywhere near "the greater good" for humans would be begging chaos to come in and take over.

Tau get away with their happy-go-lucky, idyllic society because of ethereal fuckery and the fact that their souls register so shittily in the warp that chaos doesn't even bother.

I am sorry that 40k has hurt your alt right, AnCap fee fees though.

>has a caste System
>classless

Wat

>>52695833
Wrongo. The orwellian stuff came later, when everybody bitched about MUH GRIMDARK.

Tau were initially meant to be a noblebright race, to provide contrast for the bleakness of 40k.

Actually the Tau were initially meant to sell mecha to 40k players, and their lore was written around explaining why they get anime technology and shiny suits

It's like dissecting the lore for why pauldrons in 40k are so massive, when the reality is that they were designed so spess merehns could have stickers on them.

>>52695889
I'm aware that those elements were a more recent condition. That doesn't change the fact that those elements have already been added. Or do you just think they don't go far enough?

>>52695799

>casted system
>classless structure

que?

>>52695799
You hate them because they are free and prosperous.

>>52695853
The best I've seen is someone arguing a civilization where everyone is lawful good would be awful to live in because everyone would share and that's communism which would mean everyone starving.

>>52695799
They're also tiny and in way over their heads and slowly starting to realize it. The only reason they look so good in comparison is because of their more compact size and shorter history. Even then they still have deep, numerous flaws as Charsight points out and openly rebels against.

The Tau are the newcomers on the galactic playing field that have only recently tasted the depravities of the Dark Eldar.

The Tau are the wide-eyed idealists only because they haven't suffered through literal thousands of years of decline the Imperium (much less the Eldar) has suffered through.

The Tau are the new kids with all the shiny toys that haven't really seen what the worst of the Ork WAAAAAGH!s are capable of.

The Tau are the fresh souls that don't yet comprehend the perils of the Warp, treacheries of the Chaos Gods, the worst, most corruptive influences possible in the galaxy.

The Tau would barely be a speed bump to the Tyranid tendrils creeping across the galaxy seeking to consume all.

The Tau are set up as insignificant on the grand galactic stage. For as comparatively good and pure as they seem, they are just too fresh and too small to really know what hell they're in for.

Your complaints lack the relative histories behind them in their comparison. The Tau are no shining example of juche propaganda, they're the setup for a joke about how fragile and rare any form of idealism in the galaxy at large is. It's commentary on the fucked up nature of 40k's galaxy.

>>52695853
Doesn't the Tau empire castrate/geld/neuter any races that join them in the greater good and then force them into shitty subservient roles and/or use them as meat shields in combat? I remember reading somewhere that the equality for everyone shtick was a big load of propaganda garbage from the Tau and that only the Kroot are anywhere near not oppressively governed.

>>52695799

> So. Any historians or socialist/communist state afficianados here? How could we remedy the way the Tau are written and depicted to be to communism what The Empire is to fascist theocracy? How would it look like if we mashed Maoism, Stalinism, Leninism, Trotskyism and Latin American socialism in a big fucking pot and hit frappe?

Seeing as many of their blunders (namely, the Leninist variants and the non-reformist types of socialism) stem from US interventionism (we had boots in Russia in the 20s before any legitimately "bad" stuff happened in the USSR because the west was spooked about workers being in control, US destabilizing democratic nations with coups throughout the 20th century for daring to make the lives of their workers livable, etc) and their reactions to said interventions, so seeing as the Tau have crazy plot armor when it comes to everything, we would just have fully automated gay luxury communism in space. Working as intended.

The Tau aren't communist tho' btw. Where are the workers councils? The lack of hierarchy, or hierarchy that is kept in check by democratic oversight by workers in the economy? Where are the syndicates? The Soviets? Any other forms of economic congresses? The market-socialist cooperatives and firms? The techie planner class constituting of workers representatives of every job available in Tau society? Even star trek-esque shit m8.

Oh wait that's right, workers aren't in control and Tau society doesn't describe any facet of socialism or communism at all, even Juche (which can even be debated about seeing as the DPRK hasn't officially called themselves a socialist nation since what, the 90s?)They're literally controlled by freaks with hormone powers who can't even give us a good reason as to why they have their powers over the Tau.

personally, the tau player who REEs when

> OH BLUE FISH COMMUNISTS AMIRITE HAHAHAHA

inb4 MUH SPACE VENEZUELA, IGNORE THAT MOST INDUSTRY IS PRIVITIZED AND US ECON DICKING DXXX

>>52696155
found the marxie apologist.

>>52696131
In the lore, I'm almost positive that all of those accusations come from imperial propaganda.

Not entirely sure though. Knowing what's canon and not canon is such a chore.

File: don't talk to me or my sons ever again.jpg (50KB, 600x450px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 600x450px

i say leave it, the Tau work well to be a shiny mirror to all the grim dark. there's also eldar who have a different effect on the universe

picture this. you're a spry 413 elf who has gotten tired of being on the path of teddy bear maker. what's a bored elf to do? go home take a nap, join up with a new path. society doesn't have a need for money or work really since you're at war. time to join up with the striking scorpions and bully some orks. stealth, silent chainswords and murdering those clumsy orks is fun! spend a few years on this. oh shit, time to gather up soulstones in the eye. good thing we got wraithknights and those footholds in the eye. though cousin bob elf mysteriously died and cousin john elf won't stop crying but he's in the wraithknight so you don't hear that shit.

so you're on a jaunt and everything is going well, you don't sleep much but hey you're an elf an- oh shit you just died to a daemonette. good thing you got a soulstone so slaanesh doesn't rape your soul for eve- oh double dammit your soulstone cracked and now daemonettes are tonguing your lungs while telling you the secret sauce to big macs

File: 16864116_1847183855561293_8515625110878233397_n.jpg (51KB, 480x693px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 480x693px

>>52695799
I really find it fascinating how people may interpret anything out of a particular faction/race/individual/nation when they have a certain amount of fluff.

Can't say if this is one, but in some cases you end up knowing more about the person mindset than anything he or she wished to convey.

>>52696106
This.

They're only in a good place by virtue of not having been around long enough to get fucking devastated like the Imperium has.

The Imperium ironically acts as the bulwark defending the galaxy as all of its detractors are allowed to live in peace beneath their shadow, so long as they can escape notice.

The Imperium was just as enlightened as the Tau were, once. ONCE. But they've had to shoulder the burden of thousands of years of absolute devastation. They're doing as well as can be expected under the circumstances.

>>52695833
>The Etherials are manipulative tyrants who force the other Tau into defined castes from birth, unable to breed outside or change their position.
That sounds much more like Brave New World then 1984, have you read either of those books?

>>52696106
I feel like for that to work they have to fail. In 40k if you're the plucky underdog who goes up against the odds you die, if you're lucky. If not then have fun being a servitor/gribbly. All their enthusiasm and positive vibes should go up in smoke as their armies are broken by unending waves of disposable humans.Their soldiers, once brave and hopeful, should be crippled by PTSD and war wariness. Their greatest commanders coming to realize that tactics and strategy will only get you so far in a galaxy were the winner is the side with better logistics and a deeper pool of expendable soon-to-be corpses.

Their people starve as huge holo-picts of the ruling Etherals repeat the values of self sacrifice in the name of the Greater Good. Their planets fall into desperation as every last one of their limited resources is thrown into a meat grinder that makes Rzhev look like a game of tag. Education systems and medical facilities fall into disrepair as the best and brightest are sent to war against a faceless and impossibly massive enemy. They look around to the other races for aid only to be greeted by cold stares of indifference or worse.

The only victory they can reap is the same all sapient races reap in 40k, a hollow one. They rise to the stars with hope in their eyes and return to their worlds with only ash in their hands.

>>52695889
What's even worse is that they tried to use the Tau Codex to grow a 40k following in Japan.

No joke. They translated the codex and were giving away the PDF for free.

The sad thing is, if they knew their audience, they would have given away the Imperial Guard codex, because if there's one thing OG Japanese NEETs love, it's Nazi symbolism.

If they had done things right, we could have Trigger-animated movies, and all kinds of Bandai shit to put on our shelves.

File: 1470076457143.gif (841KB, 430x834px) Image search: [Google]

841KB, 430x834px

>>52696307
seriously? this is the bait you went with here?
not the guy you're responding to btw.

>>52696155
>Commie aplogist

You know how I know there isn't anything waiting for us after death?
Because if there was, the ghosts of the 150 million people murdered by their own Communist governments in the 20th century alone would rise up and drag you to hell with them.

>>52695799
Comminusm is always successful IRL
The goal is to make everyone equal, and it always makes everyone equally miserable

>>52696432
So you haven't read either of those books.

>>52696360
How shitty but beautiful the world could have been

>>52695799
I prefer the Tau to be quixotic idealists. Their plans don't work and things never go right for them, and even within their own there is some division about "The Greater Good." They are winning battles but losing the war - unlike the Imperium. But just like that one japanese tennis player said for them to do, they Never Give Up!

>>52695889
>Actually the Tau were initially meant to sell mecha to 40k players, and their lore was written around explaining why they get anime technology and shiny suits
The original Tau codex had only crisis suits and broadsides in it, and broadsides at the time were just a crisis suit with a few extra metal bits. Location varies, but Tau didn't originally sell well until they added the mechs and anime later.

The Fire Warrior video game had to straight up invent new weapons for Tau because the model range was so limited. GW eventually did produce models for the rail rifle. Bolters in that game were far superior to pulse rifles

>>52696445
>pointing out how people mis-describe a fictional setting makes you a commie
>knowing what you're talking about is communist

You're American I assume?

>>52696552
I'm sorry but to anyone who isn't a completely brainwashed ideologue communism is marxist-leninism and it's many bastard offspring, nothing more, nothing less. Because that's all your ideology has every actually amounted to in the real world: a pretext for mass slaughter by power-crazed tyrants. You ever think maybe there's a reason for that, and it's not just all the Americans fault? No, that's crazy, the fact that you and your dickhead college student mates have a circle jerk about how much better you'd run things if you were in charge completely balances out the tens of millions of deaths, you're the REAL communists.

Moron.

>>52696445

> probably thinks something "publicly" held = socialism
> the claim is (if you're talking about the Black Book of Communism) actually 100 million, a still over inflated estimate when you go over the actual math and what it considers as a death to tally and what not to tally
> but, the book includes nazis killed by soviets lol
> dumb math in the black book like "well, THERE WAS 10 PEOPLE in 1931... AND WE EXPECTED 15 BY 1940... BUT THERE IS ONLY 12 NOW -- WHY? COMMIES KILLED EM." is seen as good way to document deaths

> UNICEF, RESULTS, and Bread for the World estimate that 15 million people die each year from preventable poverty problems, of which 11 million are children <5, for the past few years.

> giving it 10-15 years, capitalism literally kills more children under 5, than the entirety of people killed under socialism, even counting your over inflated (by 50 million lol) numbers. And that's within what, 1/5th of the timespan that those deaths occurred under or socialism?

> even in the US, thousands die each year due to poverty related issues and other money related issues (unable to afford health insurance / coverage or access to care, unable to afford medication or access to a good diet if you want to stretch it a tiny bit, but diabetes, obesity and heart problems are big killers of poor Americans)

>>52696731
>hey guys communism isn't that bad they didn't kill that many people
Amazing argument, truly amazing.

>>52695799
This is a very well thought out post, I have been wrestling with this exact thought for years and I've never been able to articulate it. The most I've ever been able to say is that the Tau don't "fit" the theme of 40k, but that was nonspecific and vacuous, this nails it dead on. The Tau turn the setting from 2000AD humor into, essentially, Communist propaganda simply by being functional instead of a dystopian shithole like everyone else.

Then again, that might be a joke on the part of the writers. Topsy-turvy nightmare universe 40k includes the Warp, the Dark Eldar, chainsaw-wielding werewolf supersoldiers, and a functional Communist country.

>>52696919
I think you give the writers too much credit.

>>52696919
I'd love to see the Tau face some real challenge, like a civil war between the Farsight Enclave and the main Tau Empire, a kroot rebellion, or a robot uprising

or for their empire to grow enough that the logistics of running an empire wears away at their ideals until they start bickering amongst themselves over dumb stuff.

File: shaved marx.jpg (132KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 1920x1080px

>>52696731
>Capitalism kills
>People starving to death

Notice how, to the Communist, everything that happens anywhere on the planet, even in countries that have no functioning governments, is Capitalism's fault, whereas the mass starvation that occurred IN Communist countries isn't Communism's fault. But at the same time they will claim that Capitalism is unnatural and an artificial structure of oppression, so anarchic countries like Somolia would have to be Socialist by default, no? No of course not, Somolia is Capitalist because it's a shithole.

Tribal blacks murdering each other in the tens of thousands and destroying all their infrastructure? Warlords seizing all the food? Negroes screeching "KILL DA BOER" and pushing white farmers off their land? These are Capitalism's fault, of course. It is because we respect property rights that Africa is a shithole. We all know that Robert Mugabe is a diehard Capitalist.

We should've listened to Marx. God knows when I'm looking for advice on economic equity, I look to German parasites who never held a job once in their entire lives, and spent all of their time beating their wives, raping their maids, and leeching off of their rich friends.

Hey how much bread does Venezuela send to those starving African children? Remind me. Oh right, they don't have any bread to send! I wonder why that is.

>>52696155
Jesus. I'm a Marxist apologist but this is plain delusional.

>>52696984
That would require GW moving the storyline forward. Maybe you'll get something after they're done sucking Girlyman's borrowed great flaming sword long enough for it to mean anything.

File: 1449525049887.jpg (95KB, 275x511px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 275x511px

>>52695799
The problem is that the Imperium already has a lot of the bad look at communism stuff already if you squint a little. They've also got a shitton of Russians.

I'd honestly be pretty mad if fictional races were 1:1 parallels of real world shit, even as part of some sort of social commentary.

The big reason I think that I hate Tau is that they're so fucking tiny and can't have any sort of impact on the setting. They should stretch across part of the galaxy, have settlements around the fringes, something. Instead they're a literal blip that only gets to join in on campaigns outside their safe suburban neighborhood if someone pays for their warp fare.

>>52696445
>>52696718
>>52696828
>Guy explains how Tau AREN'T communist
>Just close your eyes, cover your ears and shout "COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE" at top of your lungs
I swear, you amerifats get triggered by mere mention of communism worse than tumblrina when you tell her there are only two genders.
Papa McCarthy brainwashed you well. I'm not even a commie, it's just hilarious to watch.

>>52695889
>The orwellian stuff came later, when everybody bitched about MUH GRIMDARK
It was actually an expansion of what they'd done from the initial codex and all the supplementary fluff in the period between it and the fourth edition book. The weird, unquestioning obedience to the ethereals (to the point of willingly killing themselves if asked) is old, farsight breaking out of their control and being seen as a dangerous element for it is also old.

They just went from a tiny effeminate book to a big thick book, and were thus free to explore concepts that were before one-off lines of text or shoved in white dwarf.

I wish Tau were more /m/

>classless structure
>the tau
Excuse me?

>>52696155
>before any legitimately "bad" stuff happened in the USSR
The famines are always somebody else's fault, aren't they?

>>52695799
>Tau
>Communist
Are you a fucking retard? Do you even know what communism is? I mean seriously have you ever read a fucking book? If you think the Tau in any way reflect the aims of communism you should probably kys right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c

>>52696195
In canon there's only one planet where that happened and it's because the Tau thought it'd be a good idea to just let humans into their society. One emergency later where the military was called off to fight a battle, the armed forces of that planet returned to find that the humans had killed and ATE their families. They were upset and that's where the neutering happened. There's no other reference to that actually happening.

>>52696828
His argument being that Capitalism sees just as many deaths, via exploitation and abject poverty of wealth inequality, as any Communist government does.

>>52697807
Except that's simply not true

>Future alien civilisations will follow ideologies and economic systems of 20th century Earth.

Just make them closer to humans during the early days of Dark Age of Technology.

So now they've gone mecha, Tau sells much better?
Is GW making a lot of money off weebs?

>>52695799
>A classless structure where everyone works for the betterment of everybody else for the "greater good."

Aren't the Tau a literal caste system? Where your future is dependent on your birth?

File: diplomatic_solutions_by_ameeeeeba.jpg (187KB, 700x1000px) Image search: [Google]

187KB, 700x1000px

>>52695799
You make a really good point, OP. But like >>52697038 said, the Imperium already covers the comically terrible authoritarian communist angle. Pretty much every form of oppression and repression are business as usual there: theocracy, fascism, plutocracy, totalitarianism, and yes, communism too. 1984 is a huge and obvious influence.

>>52695996
Yep. 40K is absolutely not about freedom and prosperity. They're really nowhere to be seen, certainly not together, except maybe in small bands of smugglers, pirates, and rogue traders on the fringes of society.

>>52696313
THIS is how it should be. Obviously let them keep their shiny high-tech antiseptic military gear, but I want some fluff about how their pleasant prosperous society is starting to fall apart due to contact with the grimdark. Enough of this, "well, once they realize what they're in for, once they feel the true power and scale of their enemies, their confidence and success will fade." Let's see that process start.

There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

>>52695799
The Tau are fascist racialists, not communists.

>>52697956

I think it comes from the idea that there's no shame or too much pride in being higher or lower in the hierarchy. Sure, you are permanently prevented, genetically and socially, from ever leaving your caste, but nobody will ever say that you are a loser for remaining a firewarrior for 40 years. No Tau will ever talk about the "rabble" or the bloody ignorant "peasants" unlike in the Imperium feudal structure. Perhaps collectivism vs individualism would be a better term.

>>52696155
You're right about them not being communists: they're more like utilitarians with an eastern caste system, materialist and secularist sentiments that echo the kind of "We don't care what you believe as long as you pay tribute to our cause" to the conquered, and a bit of Japanese and Chinese culture splashed in. Not every type of collectivist ideology was communism. Even the grim dark elements like subtle manipulation by the ethereals, and the sterilization of humans don't strike one as uniquely communist. Only the propaganda about farsight, a former hero of their cause now made a villain echos the tale of the purges in Russia, but it's a tale which itself echoes the view of an authority towards anyone who rebels (or is expected to rebel) against authority after serving it, even when the authorities are just and good, and isn't unique to any particular system.

They are commies because robots do all the work and you are not allowed to own a kilometer-wide palace for yourself even when you are Shas'O.

>>52697091
3th ED was not join us or die. The Tau offered races that didn't want to join the chance to sign non-aggression treaties. Then the Tau would just leave them alone. Heck, the fluff also says that the Tau adopted primitive races into their empire that does not benefit the empire. Why did they do it? It was out of charity and friendship (source is the Tau BFG rulebook).

Then came the 4th ED codex and made the Tau a whole lot more grimderp. Explain yourself. Why do you have good guys?

Bring their mysterious benefactors out of the shadows already. The same guys who have protected them by invoking warp storms, cockblocking the Imperium from exterminating them, engineered the Ethereals, and are probably behind the many strokes of luck behind their rise. Say things like, fortune favours them like no other, to the point that even the braindead Imperium begins to wonder...

>>52698152
No.

That would ruin the mystique behind the Tau. GW has a policy of persevering the mysteries of the setting and letting the players play around with them.

>>52696307
But 1984 is dystopian, wheras Brave New World is genuinely utopian, and the pathetic rip-van-winkle tried to ruin everything because he's a primative cave-man compared to the genuinely contented society..

File: Kill-Team.jpg (54KB, 315x510px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 315x510px

>>52698125
>3th ED was not join us or die.
3rd edition literally has them committing to the invasion and settlement of imperial worlds, with an ethereal straight up telling the imperial ambassador that if they continue to stand in his way they'll kill everyone. And they fucking do.

Then the ethereals covertly work with the imperium to kill off their own general because he was being a problem. This book came out in THE SAME YEAR as the 3e codex. It was the first novel with Tau in it, written by one of the guys working in the studio. You are fucking blind if you did not notice any darker undertones within the tau fluff before 4th edition rolled around.

>>52698581
Codicii are more canon than BL crap
Tau dindu literally nuffin in 3rd Ed.

>>52698594
Half of my post was about the third edition codex, you colossal retard.

>>52698581
3th ED BL? The time where CS Goto was writing books for them? Discarded. Try finding GW canon.

>>52695799
"the greater good" as a concept is inherently distopian though. There have been many rebuttals of the concept of utilitarianism. lets say you have a homeless man and 5 people that need different organs. Is it okay to kidnap and murder the homeless man to give his organs to these people? The greater good is just a tyranny of the majority.

>>52698610
No, it's not. It was about some BL novel. Open the 3rd ED codex and find me some dark tones.

File: Tau_city.jpg (96KB, 800x556px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 800x556px

>>52698652
>No, it's not.
Read your codex.

tau are inexperienced and don't yet know what you have to sacrifice socially to survive in the grim darkness of the 41st millenium

>>52698729
I did. I saw no dark tones. In fact in your picture related the ethreal comes off as the decent guy.

>>52697077
You're an idiot and you're hilarious to watch. The posts call you out for being a communist apologist (the US was to blame for soviet stavation because the US hates the idea of worker's rights in other countries? Fuck out of here), and you are trying and failing to move the goalposts to make it about something else. Also McCarthy was right.

>>52697937
They're making a lot of money off Riptides

>>52698152

its obviously the kabal, growing up the tau as a warp neutral successor to the imperium in their war against chaos

>>52698650
"the Greater Good" to the Tau is not what you just described. That's for humans today in the 21st century. For the Tau it's just te name of their philosophy of collectivism + Manifest destiny to make an empire.

I'm tired of liberals, commines, socialists, nazis, ecologist and conservatives. Can we get some new ideology in this century?

>1d4chan the thread

>>52698811
>I did.
Obviously not. Usually it's the other way around in 40k, but nimbosa has always been about an alien empire trying to expand through violence.

>"You should both go back to your Emperor and tell him what you have seen here. Tell him of all the people that will die in his name, and ask him if it is worth such a price to stand in our way."

>>52698997
It's a fucking border dispute with a xenophobic Imperium. And clearly from the text that it wasn't intended to be a human world during the writing of this since it mentions Tau colonists being already there.

And may I remind you that the Tau and Empire have been in a state of war since Damocles?

>>52697122
They're already too /m/

They've completely lost the alien coalition angle in favor of MORE HARDSUITS MORRREEEE

>>52695799
>How could we remedy the way the Tau are written and depicted to be to communism what The Empire is to fascist theocracy?

Why would you bother?

The Tau are fine as they are. The point of them is that they're totalitarian alien invaders that would be the bad guys in any other setting, but here they're a preferable alternative to the humans, because humans have let themselves become so monstrous.

Not everyone has to be as shitty as the Imperium. No-one complains about Eldar being pretty great in terms of how they treat their own people.

File: 2000AD-1947-027 (Dreams of Deathworld Mortis 2).jpg (942KB, 1680x2208px) Image search: [Google]

942KB, 1680x2208px

>>52696919
On the other hand, 2000AD has a long history of having horrible, horrible things happen to "nice" people to show how awful a situation is and because its funny. Tau naivety (or even just responding to the horrors of the 41st millennium in a rational 21st century manner) can work very well, particularly if you play up the information control angle - the Ethereals know full well how bad things can get, but the masses of Tau do not and they like to keep it that way.

>>52695799
>communism
>caste system
Do you know what communism is?

>>52695799
You just want an excuse to talk shit about Communism.
>>52695833
This. Their society can only be controlled by the actual psychic groupthink of the Ethereal caste.

File: What could have been.png (118KB, 526x148px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 526x148px

>>52699133
>or even just responding to the horrors of the 41st millennium in a rational 21st century manner

Which in the case of the Tau it worked spectacularly as they are prosperous and thriving. The Tau outlook in alien relations have netted them friendship and allegiances of hundreds of species/races. Sure there has been a few hiccups like with the Dark Eldar, Orks, and Nids but the vast majority of the races that the Tau met are not inherently evil or hostile. So they are justified in pursuing their way.

It's only when the Tau had Imperium ways rub off on them, becoming belligerent and militant in response to the Imperium brutality, did they start to suffer.

So all I am seeing is vindication that 21st approach is the best in the gromdark.

>>52699148
Clearly not. It's some /pol/ faggot (fascists are the only bundles of sticks I know) that lives his power fantasies through plastic space mans.

>>52695799
It's fine. The problem with Communism isn't Communism, it's humans. Human nature doesn't match communism, it wont allow for it. IF you have a race of aliens who can easily do it, then it will go very well for them.

>>52696131
>Doesn't the Tau empire castrate/geld/neuter any races that join them
No, they only sterilised a few human hive worlds because the populations are just ridiculous.

>Some hive worlds have 500 Billion people living on them.
How can they even all be fed?

>>52699200
More humans live under Communist governments than Capitalist governments.

>>52696131
No, the lore says that Tau are in desperate need for manpower. So they target worlds with large populations and funnel the populations to their core worlds to fuel their empire as works and soldiers. The Ta would not endanger a resource that they direly need.

And for fuck sake, you moron, EVERY SINGLE MENTION OF THE GUE'VESA'LA, LIKE EVERY.SINGLE.ONE, says that the Tau do NOT USE THEM AS A CANNON FODDER. Not meat shields or whatever. The Tau do not even believe in that concept. It's an alien concept to them.

>>52699249
China's about as communist as Donald Trump

>>52699241
Food from other worlds.

>>52695799
The Tau are still in their Lenin Era. The imperium, the Eldar, the necrons all decayed over thousands of years of brutal war into the monsters they are today. The Tau will follow if they can survive. The cracks are allready beggining to show.

>>52699270
Aun'va is dead (who was a big dick). Aun'shi is gonna take charge hopefully (dude is a bro). So refirms to the better might be on their way.

>>52699052
>since it mentions Tau colonists being already there
Tau colonized an imperial border world, in an attempt to assert dominion over it. Brings military forces to bear before the opposing power can reinforce their position.

Literally imperialism 101, and unsurprisingly written by the british. The imperium being xenophobic (despite being the ones to send a diplomatic envoy) doesn't change who the aggressor is in the story.

>may I remind you that the Tau and Empire have been in a state of war?
Yeah, and funnily enough nimbosa was the first instance of either side in the conflict going traditionally warhammer overkill and genociding the population of a planet.

Which leads right into brightsword's fate, which has since been printed in the main codexes in addition to the whole "nuh uh that doesn't count because gav thorpe proved me wrong" novel. Tau have ALWAYS had more going on under the surface.

Put your name back on so my filters can catch you, TIDF.

>>52695799
Personally I like that the Tau aren't as grimderp as everything else. I'm glad they added a bit of dystopia to them, when they first released they had very few downsides, but them being this dynamic, optimistic race offsets the rest of the factions for me.

The only reason they're niave and relatively utopian is because they've essentially been protected from the rest of the galaxy by a warp storm and then the sheltered by the bulk of the Imperium from most of the truely nasty shit.

I don't think they need to become a pastiche of islamic gommunism just because the Imperium is a pastiche of other kinds of despotism.

>>52696155
Explain Chinese great leap forward and the subsequent famine due to the lack of sparrows to eat locusts.

File: Torchstar.png (1MB, 1024x1429px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1024x1429px

>>52695833
>unable to breed outside

So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying recreational sex with gue'vesa, to promote integration, would be encouraged due to the zero risk of offspring?

File: 440a7738eba6458362070001e22a8718.png (963KB, 1600x900px) Image search: [Google]

963KB, 1600x900px

>>52695799
Anons ITT already gave excellent answers.

I only add one little thing: 40k is a grimdark setting, right?
If there is a faction, this Tau, that is too good to be true... now that is the secret: you don't know what's really going on with them.

It's creepy because we don't know how the Ethereals really rule them.
Psychic stuff? Nope.
Hormones? Nope.

We just know that something is not ok.
Knowing how every other races are fucked up in 40k, there MUST be something with the Tau, too.
And that's it.
It's a mystery. Maybe one day we'll have the answer, maybe not.

Will the Emperor ever recover?
Were have the Tyranids actually come from?
Who / what were the Old Ones?
And finally: why are the Tau so not-grimdark?

The answer for all of that is: we just don't know.

>>52699292
>Tau colonized an imperial border world

Prove it from the 3rd dex.

>The imperium being xenophobic (despite being the ones to send a diplomatic envoy) doesn't change who the aggressor is in the story.

And the diplomatic envoy was a sham. The Imperium were just stalling for time. And again, state of war so it doesn't matter who is the aggressor anyways (Iy was the Imperium because they started the whole war in the first place).

>Yeah, and funnily enough nimbosa was the first instance of either side in the conflict going traditionally warhammer overkill and genociding the population of a planet.

What does that have to do with anyway? And Brightsword (It's a clone, not the real guy) went rogue and genocided the populace on his own. He was going get punished for that but the Ethereals decided to politically assassinate him according to the novel.

>Which leads right into brightsword's fate, which has since been printed in the main codexes

Look man. This is like the second lie I catch you in. Not a single one of the codexes mention what happened in the Kill Team novel. They all say that Brightsword (clone) was recalled for censure. That's it.

>>52698729
I loved the story that accompanied that pic. My favourite thing about the Tau is finally having a chance to see the Imperium engaging in diplomacy, something they just can't do with other races, aside from very occassionally with the Eldar.

That diplomat was trying to pretend that the Imperial Fist's captain next to him was just a regular imperial guard soldier and that all of humanity's 'warrior caste' were that fuckheug.

>>52699369
Addendum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__DrJI7mTHQ

>>52699256
k

>>52696445
The Kulaks deserved nothing less.

>>52699373
>it doesn't matter who is the aggressor anyways
kinda does

>3rd ED was not join us or die
>The Tau offered races that didn't want to join the chance to sign non-aggression treaties
>the Tau would just leave them alone
"Tell him of all the people that will die in his name, and ask him if it is worth such a price to stand in our way"
>n-no it doesn't matter who the aggressor is anyways
>brightsword w-was just one bad apple
>assassinating their own commander behind closed doors is definitely something that a noble and tolerant race would do
>p-pls stop lying to me

Take the last word if you want, I'm not wasting any more of my time on you.

>>52699379
Yeah, I dig the 3e fluff in general, since most of it includes imperial perspectives on things. I remember the eldar book has an imperial envoy reporting on some of the craftworld tech. The IG character greasemonkey also ended up stealing an eldar ambassador's grav-tank, somehow.

I would kill for there to be a novel about that.

>>52699467
>kinda does

It doesn't. They are in a state of war already.

>"Tell him of all the people that will die in his name, and ask him if it is worth such a price to stand in our way"

You are a moron. Like I said, the Imperium made its stance clear to the Tau in Damocles. They are pass the "join or die" or whatever phase.

Also you neglected the Tau BFG lore "To Unite The Stars" because it utterly blows you out.

>that stutter speech instead of posting proof

You said this.

"Which leads right into brightsword's fate, which has since been printed in the main codexes" which is factually and objectively wrong. So did you intetionally lie or not.

>that cowardly retreat.

See guys? This is how a person losses a debate with no dignity.

>>52696547
>The original Tau codex had only crisis suits and broadsides in it, and broadsides at the time were just a crisis suit with a few extra metal bits.

It had crisis suit and stealth suit squads as elites and broadside squads as heavy support when most other armies deployed a single dread as heavy support at the time. Tau were able to drop multiple "mecha" at the same time even in small games.

File: Allies and Subjects.png (193KB, 912x328px) Image search: [Google]

193KB, 912x328px

>>52699538
Continued...because I am not a lying douche like other guy who spewed only hot air with zero evidence, I present to you my evidence.

Here it is.

The Tau orginally weren't a "Join or die" race this came later in 4th ED. The Tau took in races that granted the empire no benefit as citizens, they bestowed the protection and wealth of the empire on these primitives and expected nothing in return but friendship (In all 40K history this has to be the most noblebright fluff ever).

When thE Tau met a peaceful race that did not want to join the Greater Good, The Tau would simple sign treaties of non-aggression with them a form trade and diplomatic bonds.

This made the Tau a decent folk in 40K but faggots complained and had it changed. I want them to explain themselves but they never do. All they do is stutter speech and act like fools!

Tl;dr the Tau weren't bad guys at the start.

>>52695833
>They're set up to be pretty dystopian.
And then there's the hints in their first codex of them giving brainwashing helmets to the Vespid. And some stuff in the FFG books and elsewhere describing their other atrocities.

Not to mention their AI's could go all Skynet on them, because if enough of them networked together to become super-intelligent and self-improving, they might decide that organics are too disruptive and chaotic to be a part of the Greater Good.

>>52699701
What the fuck? Weren't the vespids introduced in the 4th ed? Their second codex?

>>52699249
>More humans live under Communist governments than Capitalist governments.


wat

GLORIOUS
SWEET
MECHAS

that's it, that's pretty much the extend of why I like the tau

>>52698822
>Also McCarthy was right

Suspecting people without evidence is right?

God, the very reason why Americans are traumatic whenever hearing "communism", "socialism", "workers revolution" etc is due to lack of proper education.

Can't wholly blame you as the education system thereof is fucked.

Instead of actually learning, students focus on earning to pay tuition - instead of giving a fuck or two towards philosophy and social studies; students focus on practical abilities to use in practical life, which I can't really blame.

Hence you guys decide with your stomachs.

Hence you vote politicians promised to give you jobs.

However it's funny you don't believe in free college education - or perhaps many of you are lazy fucks who think that highschool or no education at all would be enough to earn money to suffice your needs.

>>52699719
>>52699701
Notice that the anon went completely quiet when challenged.

PUSSY

>>52696003
>The best I've seen is someone arguing a civilization where everyone is lawful good would be awful to live in because everyone would share and that's communism which would mean everyone starving.
If everyone was actually sharing everything because they were all lawful good, they wouldn't be starving.

Communism never works in real life because not everyone is lawful good, and the lawful evil party members invariably rise to the top and fuck it up for everyone else.

some faggot from /pol/ will probably think I just posted a "real communism has never been tried before" statement.

>Caste system
>Communist

>>52699849
>Can't wholly blame you as the education system thereof is fucked.
They have some of the best higher education in the world, what are you talking about?

>>52700154
>They have some of the best higher education in the world
Only when measured without taking quality of education into account.

>>52700154
Higher education, sure. The primary educational system is garbage, which might have something to do with the fact that a higher and higher percentage of the students at American universities are foreigners.

>>52698308
Glad no one fell for this. Embarrassing bait

>>52700171
>Only when you don't take into account my opinion.

Ok.

>>52696131
That trope came from one of the Dawn of War games where in the bad end for the IG that was said to have happened.

>>52696360
I think you're full of shit.

GW have never given away a codex.

>>52695799
Some fags say they are based on communists, other say it's the caste system from India or whatever, a few snowflakes say it's neither. Theres a GW profit argument to be made as well. I haven't watched enough pop culture garbage to make an apt comparison myself, but they feel like the naive, bright counterpart to the setting. At least they used too. It's a shame they caved in, having the good guys be non human would be original.

Lets end this.
The lore consistently calls them collectivists. Collectivism is a code word for communism.

>>52695799
>But then you look at the closest allegory to communism.. the Tau.

FALSE
A
L
S
E

The Tau aren't even close to communism. They're an oligarchy ruled by a psuedo priesthood with a Ridgid caste system and a collectivist society

Absolutely nothing about the Tau is communist.

In any case Tau can and do represent the best and WORST of SEA territories including India, China, and Japan.

>>52695799
> A classless structure
Tau don't have a classless structure, nor are they are proper allegory to communism (neither the ideal nor the bureaucratic reality). As a holy theocracy, Tau society is clearly divided between the different castes, and between Tau and auxiliary populations.

P.S. the grimdarkness of the Tau is that the only reason they're able to appear like a beacon of prosperity and progress is because the rest of the galaxy is too preoccupied to stomp them into the ground. The moment the nids, chaos, orks, et al. seriously invade Tau territory is the moment that all their glories come crumbling down. The Tau are a stillborn empire.

>>52700328
Communism is a collectivist ideology, but not all collectivist ideologies are communism.

>>52699075
This is the part that annoys me

They're supposed to actually see the crisis suits are borderline wastes of resources in universe

Like the guy who keeps making new suit designs should be in trouble but his prototypes help them out of a jam so they let him off

But they keep adding newer and bigger fucking suits to the army

>>52695799
Tau is basically a nicer Protectorate of Menoth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO_xh7xIabk

File: Clone-Troopers_76eb5caf.jpg (212KB, 2048x1024px) Image search: [Google]

212KB, 2048x1024px

Tau are clones.

>>52700418
I'm pretty sure the "suits are wasteful" thing has been retconned. But yeah, I'd enjoy more Zoo Tau rather than more Gundam Tau.

>>52699584
The original metal stealth suits were about the size of a space marine, and original crisis suits were smaller than the current suits as well. Dreads were larger. Statewise the original crisis suits were like terminators with more guns.

At the time if you really wants to put a lot of walkers on the table you'd play IG or Orks

>>52695799
>Their technology is in many ways superior to the Empires

I'm not sure that it is at all. If the Imperium was as small as the Tau Empire, every soldier could have a plasma gun.

people hate the Tau because their modern aesthetic seems to mess with the anachronistic vibe of 40k. Also they deny stupid shit like close combat or jousting jetbikes in favor of practical tactics and weapons. Also they're the best setting to love under and people think that doesn't fit. Also the anime vibe.

I don't see the big deal though

File: 03a.jpg (9KB, 261x194px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 261x194px

>>52696155

>>52698308
Are you fucking high?

>>52700328
An-caps pls go.

>>52700708
Walkers =/= Mecha

Sentinels are funky vehicles with weapons strapped to the side.

Killa Kans and Dref Dreads shared the Heavy Support slot in the Ork's force organization. They also had the standard jury-rigged aesthetics of Ork gear.

You could field a bunch but they didn't really look like a mech army. Tau on the other hand fielded a bunch of mechs with a standard organization even before the Riptide was added as a centerpiece.

Stats also don't really play a role in determining an army's look. Terminators are marines in heavier armor. Crisis and broadside suits looked like piloted robots.

>>52696360
Spoilerfags will be the first to go on the day of the rope

File: 40K__tau_crisis_battle_suit_by_thevampiredio.jpg (85KB, 766x942px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 766x942px

The reason why Crisis is infantry and not walker is simply because an army with so many walkers would have been OP at the time of their introduction.

>>52701388
Walkers are kinda shit. No matter how many hull points your land raider has with its 14 all around armor, everyone has some sort of melta, lance, lascannon, or whatever to blow it up turn 1.

>>52700788
Every man woman and child would be a Psyker/Null Terminator with 8 hearts, 3 meter tall, and enough glands and extra organs to have the swedish royal court go "good heavens, this smorgasbord is more multicultural than our ruined feminist run country"

>>52701480

Back then, Walkers and vehicles were much more powerful.

>>52699849
I'm not speaking to you now you uneducated pinko fuck because I know you're deranged but to others reading this that might fall for your ignorance.

You're well behind the times if you think McCarthy was just paranoid, he has been vindicated repeatedly and he was either an extremely lucky guesser or he had intelligence that wasn't being made public.

The state dept' and Hollywood were (are) absolutely lousy with communists and this wasn't the current crop of feel good bullshitters it was while Stalin was alive and gulags were up and running for everyone that put a toe out of line or even those who didn't. Communist spies (always jews) had literally just stolen the plans for atomic weaponry and given it to a man worse than Hitler by any conceivable metric.

McCarthy did what needed to be done and served in a dirty role for something he genuinely believed was right and that history has confirmed was right, the thing that allows bedwetters like you to spout your simplistic opinions.

There's a very good reason that we don't hear about the recent proof and vindication but still hear how it was 'witch hunt'. The main thing about a witch hunt being that there aren't any witches, if there were it would be quite a rational thing to hunt them.

>>52700021
That you're describing things in real life according to a moronic morality scale in a game for otherwise friendless adolescents indicates you have little place to think anyone else is a faggot or lacks comprehension.

>>52701508
It was more you praying the guy never got a 6 when he rolled on the pen chart.

File: IMG_0619.jpg (332KB, 600x786px) Image search: [Google]

332KB, 600x786px

>>52695799
Nah.

Imperial worlds and civil rights vary system by system. Governors/systems are more or less allowed to rule as they see fit as long as fealty is observed and tithes are paid. Ranging from republics to autocrats. It's the most ethical system. Allowing the disparate peoples of the imperium to be ruled depending on who they are, their societal systems, how they were brought into the imperium, etc etc. no single system works for everyone.

>>52701108
>Walkers =/= Mecha

Mecha aren't just a reference to singular machines bruh, it was a very large concept of machinery, primarily on robotics (since the jap views it as "the highest form of machinery").

When talking about mecha, you can have it range from dinky drones, power armors, to intergalactic robots, whatever the form is (for example, mecha in Gundam not only refer to the MS, but also to MAs and MPods as well) I don't know who's started the "hurr its about giant humanoid rawbuts hurr", but its largely comes from western, maybe due to exposure from cartoons like Gundam and Robotech. In here, we're call our big humanoid robo as..... robots, or whatever names they had in universe.

>>52695799
The Tau were recreated from savages by another race. It's sometimes said to be Eldar, but my guess would be Dark Eldar did it for shits and giggles, and it just got out of hand. If not them, then Necrons.

While they're space communists, they're also grimderp mecha and a whole load of other things, but in the context of the setting - which is not about setting up factions as grimdark takes on political positions, otherwise Orks and Imperium would be pretty chummy - Tau are a slave race, in the finest traditions of hammy sci-fi, and they don't even know it. Nobody really knows if the Ethereals are working for the good of the Tau, for the good of themselves, or for the whim of some unseen hand.

But the point of it is this: they're inheritors of a broken galaxy. They won't survive; even if they started Fourth Sphere and made huge headway, they wouldn't take over. Humanity had the Great Crusade for about 200 years - but that wasn't just to colonize the galaxy, it was to re-conquer what Humanity had already settled and claimed ancient domain over. The Emperor himself may have had a significant hand in the running of that expansion, prior to the Age of Strife - so his Great Crusade is MkII and his rapid expansion of the Imperium could proceed that bit faster.

Short of that kind of insider knowledge and the ability to take on vast resources (like Forge Worlds) to boost the Fourth Sphere, the Tau can't expand and take over. It will take millennia at least, just as it did for Mankind, and Tau politics have fractured after just 5,000 years - whole worlds have gone over to Commander Kheen.

Maybe they were a Dark Eldar joke, forgotten when Vect took over. Maybe they were an Eldar shot at recreating the methods of the Old Ones. Maybe they were a Necron experiment, or some other group just made them. But everything they do is false; you can never escape the fact that they may be nothing more than puppets of an ancient and malevolent race.

That's Lovecraft for you.

>>52699849
>God, the very reason why Americans are traumatic whenever hearing "communism", "socialism", "workers revolution" etc is due to lack of proper education.
I wonder if that has something to do with (((who))) owns the "means of production".

>>52699369
>Will the Emperor ever recover?

Well, this one seems like it'll get answered soon.

File: tmp_28547-7e689d2bb361058db995f07fac63c0a11790799648.jpg (61KB, 500x673px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 500x673px

>>52701388
I thought it was mostly because they're just a bunch of not!landmates, thats also a large mechsuit that function as enhanced infantry.

>>52700418
>They're supposed to actually see the crisis suits are borderline wastes of resources in universe

Nah, the only ones that they consider as wastefull was the titanic suit like Knights and Titans, because it was largely against their tactics and they couldn't sustain it.

Crisis and the other smaller suit were fine by them, heck Broadsides are suposed to be the largest suit they employ.

>>52696003
Have you tried not being retarded?

>>52695799
>Every single possible negative trait that Europe has ever manifested on itself and its neighbors.
Aren't you forgetting about all of the non-white religious fanatics, imperialists, personality cults, and religious wars?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideki_Tojo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong

>>52699849
Communism is one of the worst weapons of mass destruction that humanity has invented.

As a system of society it is completely uncompetitive for its participants and is ultimately unsustainable long term in the real world with real human nature and psychology. It's almost as uncompetitive for its participants, as a system of society, as Islam or non-resource-backed-socialism.

Objectively the best performing economic and social systems are capitalistic (not purely capitalist) enlightenment era derived societies.

I suggest reading "Culture and Prosperity" by Key to get a start on this subject.

>>52696731
>famines in China from mismanagement so bad that millions of people starve
>famines in the USSR so bad the government needs to tell people not to eat their children
>Communist Zimbabwe has massive famine at the same time that much freer Kenya has record crops
>"NO GUYS CENTRAL PLANNING WORKS, ITS JUST FUCKEN WHITEY/THE MONOPOLY MAN'S FAULT WE ALWAYS STARVE"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

Look at this list faggot. Notice how all the countries at the top are wonderful places to live, and the ones at the bottom are shitholes.

>>52696155
>it was muh CIA that made Lenin torture the Kulaks and Stalin torture everyone else
>it wasn't real communism either
Holy shit bro. Open a fucking book.

sure is spooky in here

>>52701255
10/10

How did the commies reach space before Americans?

>>52696155
Well done, anon. That's a real political incorrect post. And it was spot on because the only thing the triggered girls could do was ignoring most of it and spewing crap.

Well done.

Pinched this a few years ago from someone else:

>Communism & Marxism
Communism is an ideology that seeks to establish a classless, stateless social organization based on common ownership of the means of production.
Tau are not classless, having a rigid Caste & Rank system that is far from equal. A Shas'la cannot wake up one morning & decide to be a Kor'la - it is forbidden of him, thereby stripping the Shas'la of his would-be Communist/Marxist freedom of being able to be accomplished in any branch he wishes.

>Socialism & Democracy
Socialism, is a much broader socio-economic system in which property & the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community, & is often characterized by state or community ownership of the means of production.
The Tau community does not control the Empire's property or distribution of wealth, again having a rigid Caste system & government-placed jobs based on the needs of the Empire & abilities of the individual. If anyone has control of the Tau's property & wealth, it is the High Councils & the Aun.
In addition, full Socialism would not work without extensive implementation of Democracy - another little system of government that the Tau do not grasp. The common Tau has no say in how he lives his life, again, only the High Councils & the Aun have any say in how the Empire progresses.

>What are the Tau then?
The Tau Empire has much more in common with the concepts of Imperialistic Utilitarianism, a rather vague but overall more fitting explanation or description for how the Tau run things (rather than an even more vague & irrelevant socio-economic system, considering the fluff still hasn't provided any information regarding a Tau economic system at all). Imperialism, being the forceful extension of a nation's authority by territorial gain or by the establishment of economic and/or political dominance over other nations.
(1/2)

>>52702226 (2/2)
Utilitarianism, being the ethical doctrine that the moral worth of an action is determined solely by its contribution to overall utility. Utility, being the "good to be maximized" (sound familiar?).

>Despots, Totalitarianism, & Oligarchies?
Being a Despotic society seems to be one of the only ways to make what the Tau Empire does, work. No so-called "ethical", "moral", or "free" individual in their humanly right mind would want to willingly give up that freedom or individuality to exercise the type of Utilitarianism that the Tau Empire practices daily.
Of course, the Tau implement so many of these systems across the various Sept worlds that comprise the Empire that it is a ‘Checks & Balances’ system in its own, ensuring no one Tau can ultimately control every aspect of the entire Empire, although Aun'va could come dangerously close to it.
In addition, this is a very Totalitarian society, in which the state regulates nearly every aspect of public & private behaviour so that individuals are allowed certain personal freedoms, except when they are counter to the Utilitarian & practically Religious ideals of the "Greater Good".

>OTT Utilitarianism?
The Tau's hereditary Ethereal leadership, otherwise suppressed freedoms & individualities, & rigid Caste system do not require justifications for a Tau to accept. It is perfectly acceptable in Tau society (whether the individual Tau has any say or not) to follow such an extreme form of Utilitarianism as morally justifying anything that hurts one to help many, or to sacrifice one's individual interests for the sake of the nation as a whole.

If you want the Tau in a nutshell with as many labels as possible, then here's what you get:
The Tau Empire:
a Despotic Totalitarian Collectivist Imperialistic Utilitarianist Society
Ruled by:
Theocratic Hereditary Oligarchies presiding over Meritocratic Councils

>>52702198
By leveraging the entire economic output of a nation to do it.

The US, by comparison was fighting a war, having Christmas sales, and was generally unburdened by economic footprint of their space adventures.

>>52695853
>libshit smarm
>"it has to because it just has to" nonopinion

Really fascinating stuff there, champ. I'm gonna put your post on the fridge with all the rest of the crayon drawings that make mommy and daddy so proud of you.

>>52702236
Not to mention they had rockets built already, they just needed to slap a machine into it and call it a satellite.

>>52702226
>>52702235
thank you anon

>>52702139
>it was muh CIA that made Lenin torture the Kulaks and Stalin torture everyone else
Once the other countries invade, the civil war got really brutal. It was horrible before, but after? Holy shit.

>it wasn't real communism either
It does not fit the definition, thus it was not. Calling themselves otherwise does not change anything.

>Holy shit bro. Open a fucking book.
Yeah, so should you.

>>52701946
It's smelling of sperm. Go fap somewere else please.

File: [judges you in kikongo].jpg (14KB, 418x354px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 418x354px

>>52695799
Would the Tau be unstoppable if they had the Imperium's resources but kept their combined arms doctrine?

Individualism is the worship of death. The individual is finite, mortal, limited. The collective is eternal, immortal, adaptable.

>>52702226
>>52702235

Great job, anon!

Would you care using such good explanation on another myth people like to propagate - "Tau are fish-people"?

File: Farsight4.jpg (491KB, 990x1378px) Image search: [Google]

491KB, 990x1378px

>>52695799
Wow, almost insightful for /tg/

I thought the ethereal and Greater Good were not as great as the surface would have you believe. Like if you don't join them you are either "Honorably" killed you or subtly forced to join if you have use, like the vespids.

I thought the whole reason Commander Farsight broke off was because he found out some deep truth about the ethereal's lies and renounced the greater good.
>The maybe-demon-sword that came later didn't help, but I thought he broke off before find such sword.

>>52702043
That central planning is meh at best in developed economies is something no one of the left would disagree. Learning from history and all that.

So, nice strawman.

>>52702333
Like I said, it's not my argument - it's copied word-for-word from someone else. Never heard the fish-people thing - what's that about? Nice trips though

>>52702323
Not particularly, because they'd have no way of effectively leveraging those resources over vast reaches of space.

>>52702342

But he didn't. He just thinks the Ethereals, Aun'va in particular, are dicks.

>>52702342
Farsight broke off for a variety of reasons, including:

Being abandoned in the Tau version of 'Nam causing him to go full Heart of Darkness

Significant time away from command weakening the Ethereals chemical based hold on him

Demon Sword

Figuring out the Ethereals were full of shit, partially because of #2, partially because he's seen some shit and realizes how hopelessly Naive his people are and just how fucking big and jesus fucking fucked the galaxy is

As a result he still supports the Tau but not the Ethereals or their regime. He's kind of a Red-Pill Woke-As-Fuck individual, as far as Tau go.

>>52702377
becase their vehicles are called by fish names and they are noseless and blue, people think they are derived from fish...

>>52698308
Fuck, Tumblr is posting again.

>>52702427
>>52702377
Tau have hooves. They are not fish people. If anything, they're cervine

>>52702453
They aren't hooves, they're malformed scales.

>>52702453
As we all know, deer have smooth blue skin and no noses.

>>52702427
Aren't the vehicle patterns just Imperial nicknames? I'm sure that argument worked back in 5th ed, although maybe there's been fluff to change that since then. I mean why else would they be named after Terrestrial fish?

>>52695799
>The Imperium of Man are depicted as fascist imperialist religious fundamentalists
the imperuim of man isn't facist
it's an empire anon.
for it to be fascist it would have to be nationalistic and there are way too many dividing cultural ties between the eclectic mix of humanity for it to be a nation and it doesn't hold to capitalistic ideas.
The closer approximation is feudalism because this shit is going to go the way of the Carolingian empire fast. ultramar == greece and the resent invasion of the tau is looking pretty turkic. I wouldn't be suprised if an anti tau crusade begins again.
I mean you also typed classless and caste in the same body paragraph but come the fuck on.


>>52696992
tovarish

>>52699336
you deserve every STI that would land you.

>>52699373
>Prove it from the 3rd dex.
that was the whole point of cities of death was it not.
First borns are holding a boarder world and tau invades, god i wish i knew where that wove in directly. It's been so fucking long and i don't own the taudex anymore.

>>52701590
>you'd have those games were a fucking chimera would be shaken, stunned, immobilized and without any guns but still wasn't dead.

>>52702494
Yep, they are named like that by Imperial records. Tau use just letters and numbers like VX8 for Crisis and TX7 for Hammerhead

>>52702494
They're imperial translations of the actual names, there's probably some approximation there since there are unlikely the same animals in Tau biomes. It's mostly based around how Tau fight

>>52702471
>>52702481
it's simpler and more accurate to say Tau have no analogous terrestrial genetic lineage. They are truly alien.

All the more reason to exterminate them.

I hate how scifi alien and futuristic ideologies are limited by 20th century thinking.

>>52702300
How was the west responsible for the mass killings, the concentration camps, purges, famines, invasions of neighboring countries, complete repression of free speech, and police state that was endemic to the Com Bloc.

It happened in China.
It happened in the USSR.
It happened in Korea.
It happened in Viet Nam.
It happened in Cambodia.
It happened in the DDR.
It happened in Zimbabwe.
It happened in Cuba.

Was it the West that tricked Pol Pot into killing everyone with glasses?
Was it the West that tricked the Soviets into sending millions of people to slave labor camps?
Was it the West that tricked Lenin into having his goons rape, rob and murder the "kulaks"?
Was it the West that tricked the Soviet Union into invading Finland, Poland, and Czechoslovakia?
Was it the West that tricked the Soviet Union into brutally crushing the Hungarian revolution of 1956?
Was it the West the tricked Mao into running the economy into the ground, and then tricked him into starting the "cultural revolution"?
Was it the West that tricked Kim Jong Il into flooding half of NKs already sparse farmland with their giant dam?
Was it the West that tricked the East Germans into creating the Stasi to spy on millions of people?

>>52702420
I thought he was mostly pissy that the Ethereals knew about the existence of Chaos but purposely kept the rest of the Tau in the dark about it, which is honestly not even that bad of an idea.

>>52702616
Pretty sure the Ethereals were gonna lobotomize him for finding out about it too

It was a lot of things

Ironically yeah, the disbelief the ethereal propagate is the best safety net the Tau can have right now.

YFW the TAU are in fact, living the ideology of the Imperial Truth the Emperor wanted all humanity to follow.

Soak it in. This is what the Emperor wanted for humanity, barring MAYBE the Caste System.

>>52702235
I was going to go with Ultra-Utilitarian Platonic Republic

File: 1486496746221.gif (3MB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 640x360px

>>52702655
>MFW the Tau were actually a secondary science project created by the Emperor

>>52696313
>>52695799

You're forgetting two things, both of which are very important.

First, the Tau aren't human. They don't think like humans. They're vile xenos, and their Ethereal caste controls them via pheromones. Their society works because it uses a form of mental control. When the Ethereals die, shit gets real fast.

Second, the Tau are simply there to be 'enemies of the Imperium'. Like, they're completely incidental to the big struggle of 'The Imperium vs Chaos'. They're about as relevant, plot-wise, as the Orks.

One last thing to note is that if the Tau ever lose, that's it for them. The entire race will be wiped out. This is because the Imperium doesn't take prisoners. If they were ever defeated, the Tau would be genocided.

>>52702588

>Was it the West that tricked Pol Pot into killing everyone with glasses?

Yes. The US supported Pol Pot as a counterweight to Commie Vietnam. Targeting glasses is not as random as you think (glasses = likely someone who either worked or supported the old regime).

>>52700353
>collectivist society
>Absolutely nothing about the Tau is communist.

Top kek

>>52702663
Why a Platonic Republic? Being led by a born-into caste spouting a strict, unchanging philosophy - rather than unwilling philosophers motivated by the duty to do good - seems to be captured more by the term oligarchy for me

>>52702754
Because it has the caste system built(philosopher kings, guardians, plebs etc) in whereas an Oligarchy simply has small ruling class

>>52702842
Fair enough. To be honest I don't know a great deal about Platonic Republics - just tidbits I've heard in mentions about it (& we can see how well that's worked out for communism in this thread). Cheers en

>>52697986
>There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Sorry, that's too scary for little Timmy and his mommy. Primarchs are safe and family friendly though. We AVENGERS now.

>>52695799
Here's my perspective as a generally left-sympathetic Egoist anarchist.
The tau really aren't communist at all, they're more like sci-fantasy Imperial China, what with their psuedo-confuscian focus on social order and harmony over individual desires, totalitarian but respect-based leadership (though aided by biology), subjugation and integration of 'savages', and lack of a significant drive for external conquest (though in this case i'ts more limited by a lack of warp travel than anything). Communism is by necessity a revolution against a capitalist world order, the fight for change and survival of the ideology informs a large part of it's logic. Even dictators like Stalin, who essentially ignored the basic tenets of communism, justified his actions on the basis that they were horrible but necessary to survive in a world controlled by capitalism. Leninists and stalinists especially posit marxism as prescribing a specific program to transition to 'full communism' (i.e., the abolition of the state and the creation of a classless society based on common ownership of the means of production) that requires that the population be groomed or prepared for such a society by a revolutionary vangaurd that would assume control of the apparatuses of the state until they achieved that goal.

Of course, the common anarchist critique of this ideology is that the apparatuses of the state themselves create inequality in society, and those that would assume control of them end up creating just another 'ruling class' that uses their power to entrench their privileged position.

>>52702878
I don't think one has ever existed, I'm sure you can find a copy of Plato's republic as a free PDF. It probably should be called a Socratic republic given that they were "allegedly" the words of Socrates and not Plato putting words in his mouth /at all/

Personally, I think they should make the Tau as parallel to humanity during their first steps to galactic conquest before the Men of Iron rebellion.

>>52702708
Collectivism is the belief that the needs of the community are more important than the needs of an individual. Communism is much more specific; it proposes a classless society based on common ownership of the means of production. For example, modern japan and china are collectivist despite being a 'liberal democracy' and 'state-capitalist'(i.e. The State and the capitalist class are synonymous, still operating the means of production for personal profit) respectively.

>>52702342
I believe the biggest reason for him breaking off was probably the Puretide thing. Killing your own mentor to use his brain in chips because they ordered you to and then finding out those chips have serious flaws - both in use and what happens if you try to remove them/turn them off - and that the ethereals don't give a shit? That did not sit well with him.

File: big_daddy_jung.jpg (127KB, 1200x1200px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 1200x1200px

>>52702700
>Literally defending Pol Pot
pls be bait

>>52703076
That's not defending Pol Pot, it's attributing his rise to another source. The Grand Ole US of A has an illustrious history of making shortsighted alliances of convenience with horrible people.

>>52698308
Not this guy and I'm not trying to shitpost, but how is BNW not a utopia for the people living in the society?

>>52703076

He was educated France, majored in western hypocrisy, and the US supported him throughout his rule to troll Vietnam. Even after being overthrown, the US and the West considered him the only legitimate government of Cambodia (even letting them keep the UN seat for Cambodia).

>>52703131
It's a dystopia to humans, a utopia to the inbred monstrous psuedo-humans that make up the society. It's humanity being bred into willing slaves, it's a perversion of everything a freedom-desiring human would want as his species' legacy.

communists need to be thrown from helicopters

>>52703124
>Targeting glasses is not as random as you think
Sounds like defending Pol Pot to me.

The West gave a few tens of millions to the Khmer resistance generally. We have no idea how much actually ended up with Pol Pot.

The ChiComs however, gave over $1bn in military aid directly to the Khmer Rouge, and trained them in China until the mid 80's. But this doesn't fit the "muh CIA" narrative so I guess you can ignore it.

>>52695799
They're a young and naive race, still ignorantly optimistic in a galaxy of horrors. Man was once in a very similar position. I like the Tau, for variety at the very least. It's nice to have a up-and-coming Quixotic underdog in a crowd of fallen empires and monsters.

>>52703319

The Chinese and the US supported Cambodia, the Soviets Vietnam.

>>52703355
Not really. China supported North Viet Nam up to the end of the war, they were allies of convenience.

Chinese support of the NVA was so clear all you had to do was look at their kit. They all carried Type 56's, not Soviet made AKs.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/north-vietnam-and-peoples-republic-of-china-sign-aid-agreement

There were also thousands of PLA troops fighting the US while LARPing as NVA.

But you're kind of right in that as soon as the Americans left, and S. Viet Nam was crushed they returned to their thousand year rivalry.

>>52703319
Saying something is slightly more complex than popular culture would claim =/= defending

And indirect support is still support, the US kept them in the UN. Just because China is 'worse' doesn't mean the US was 'good'.

>>52703451
But claiming that the US was responsible for Pol Pot, when China gave hundreds of times the support the West did (directly the KR as well), is either telling a half truth or being purposefully disingenuous.

>>52703482
The US allowed it to happen. Russia and China were never a credible threat to America, our air force and navy outclassed them to the point that their staggering manpower was meaningless. But winning wars doesn't make as much money for arms manufacturers and defense contractors.

>>52703662
You're retarded if you think that the fledgling MIC wouldn't be all for going to war with Russia and the ChiComs immediately after WWII. If anyone stopped the US from crushing the bolsheviks it was the highly subversted state department. What they don't tell you in school is that McCarthy was right in that the State Dept. really was full of communists. It just so happens that they were the ones that advised demobilizing the military, and said that everything in China was A-OK.

It was only after the Russians got the bomb and Mao showed to the world how insane he was that the US tried to backpedal and stop the reds. But by that point it was too late, the Americans lacked constitution to go to nuclear war, even though all through the 50's the US stockpile was miles ahead of the Soviet's.

>>52703804
That's ridiculous. All-out war is much less profitable and controllable than playing on nationalistic fears to increase military spending, while keeping the actual bloodshed and destruction far away from home. And after you crush your enemies, you would have to find another way to justify defense spending. controllable, consistent low-key conflict creates a perfect atmosphere for war profiteering. Also, gonna need a heck of a citation on that 'teh gubmint wuz seekrit commies' claim.

>>52703804
>we should have actually gone to nuclear war with Russia/China

this is the fucking modern right, ladies and gentlemen.

Better Dead than Red indeed

File: US_and_USSR_nuclear_stockpiles.svg.png (103KB, 1280x934px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 1280x934px

>>52704001
The Soviets didn't have ICBMs until the early 60's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-7_Semyorka

and the USAF was lighyears beyond the VVS all throughout the Cold war. In the 1950's they had NOTHING even slightly comparable to the strike capability of SAC.

If you don't think a nuclear exchange before 1960 would've ended with anything but a crushing defeat of the Soviet Union you're beyond retarded.

>>52695799
there is literally nothing communist about the Tau, that's entirely an invention of fandom.

>>52704077
Yes the Soviet Union would have lost, that doesn't fucking matter when you've salted a huge portion of the fucking earth and unleashed a tremendous technological terror for no other reason than to slake your fucking nationalistic boner

Nuclear Exchange isn't a fucking game, it's a 0 descrimination weapon of mass destruction. Using Nuclear Weapons on Russia would have constituted a crime against decency and morality, you fucking neo-con mong. I'm all for having a big strong military to keep bitches and thugs off our shit and to keep the little shits in line, but there's a fucking line.

The very fact you're so blaise about the idea of exterminating millions of lives and irradiating huge swathes of countryside just shows how much of a fucking memetic disease the Military Industrial Complex is.

>>52702252
>canonically sound, In-universe explanations
>NO THATS WRONG IT'S ACTUALLY THE THING THAT MAKES ME MADDDDDDD

And I'm the child.

>>52696155
This is /tg/ in a nutshell

>>52700788
what's with this meme

An Imperium that was 100th the size would also have 100th the amount of industry, raw materials, trained professionals, research facilties,etc. The idea that the Imperium would be able to equip all of it's soldiers with the highest-quality equipment if it were the size of the Tau Empire only makes sense if you believe economics of scale work in reverse.

File: Age of Darkness.jpg (153KB, 760x1000px) Image search: [Google]

153KB, 760x1000px

>>52704320
Look let me call you on your bullshit. In the Beast Waaagh!, the core of Imperium was besieged. Terra and Mars themselves.

Where were those technological marvels and super weapons? Nowhere to be seen.

The Tau are called technologically superior in the fluff for a reason (picture related). Technologically superior in relation to what? The Imperium. Only one department in the Imperium is said to be able to match the Tau tech and perhaps beat it in some aspects and it's the armies of the Admech.

>>52704777
Beast Waagh occured post heresy, Imperium was long since fucked there

File: jung.jpg (44KB, 365x480px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 365x480px

>>52703076
>Germanic mysticism

>>52703195
sounds about right.
I mean we are not all that much different now, I wonder how much humanity there can be in a place where you could walk by a million faces and not know a single one.
>>52704777
diff anon
>Look let me call you on your bullshit
i mean he is right, you couldn't just reverse it back up to show plasma guns on every git.

>Where were those technological marvels and super weapons? Nowhere to be seen.
1. the beast novels a shit. BL a shit.
or more accurately the books are a penny dreadfuls, the writers aren't especially and will take liberties for sake of drama
2. super weapons, marvels of technology
>any exterminatus weapon classifies.
> titians
>every admech weapon/unit , seriously the krios with it's "It's not armour it's interlocking shields"
even then it was at a slow decline there, the HH chewed up so many interesting and valuable designs, including jetbikes, good whirlwinds, volite for anyone who isn't admech, every imperial ship and armour. terminator armour

>>52699617
Anyone else read this and think maybe Tau==Early/middle Rome with the whole client states business?

>>52695947
Everyone is equal within their ethnic caste (barring leadership in jobs), and all castes are nominally equal.

>>52704777
The only thing superior about the Tau is their plot armor. They don't actually have anything the Imperium doesn't have. Imperial weapons outrange Tau weapons, Imperial fleets can travel faster through space, Imperial elites can teleport into enemy HQs.

>>52696547
Does anyone know if the Fire Warrior game holds up?

>>52706270
It wasn't very good in 2003, or whenever it was released. Only good thing about it, which likely still stands, is the representation of many of the weapons. The guns all looked and felt exactly what 40k weapons should. The game is otherwise very mediocre, and why Tau?

>>52706270
>>52706338
It was OK. As Anon said, it is the *ONLY* game to accurately represent 40k weapons, down to Bolters actually being fucking machine gun grenade cannons.

>>52706338
>and why Tau?
Only Tau would be pragmatic enough to use enemy weapons in the field.

>>52706338
Tau were getting a publicity push.

>>52703124
>The Grand Ole US of A has an illustrious history of making shortsighted alliances of convenience with horrible people.

Hey, cut us some slack - we ARE descended from Europeans, after all. Old habits die hard.

>>52695879
Castes aren't classes bro.

>>52706338
Well the cover art is fucking great at least.

>>52706440
Castes are literally permanent class systems that cannot be changed.

>>52695799
maybe not every scifi and fantasy civilization needs to be a strict allegory for a real world equivalent?

>>52695799
That's a really long-winded reason to hate the tau. I hate the Tau because they have broken troop lists and keep running away from my footslogging Imperial Fists.

Only good thing about Tau is that everything is so absurdly overpriced most players can't field more than one or two Devilfish or Battlesuits.

>>52706471
Not really, no. The terms as we use them today come from Max Weber, who defined them as two different social constructs of stratification. One isn't a subtype of the other. You might as well say animals and vegetables are different social classes.

>>52695996
Yes, that's the point of OP's post

>>52696106
That only works if they fail and crumple as an empire. But they haven't.

...And they won't because they have models that sell. As it is they have an annoying fan base as a result of them never straight up losing (in fluff, on tabletop army match up may vary).

>>52704777
This here is right. The actual Imperium and what the Imperium can make is, for the most part, inferior to Tau designs, with a few distinct exceptions in areas that the Tau haven't really considered or specialised in, like Warptech, Nulltech and all that.

The AdMech on the other hand, is perfectly capable of beating the Tau on almost any technological field, BUT, the AdMech's actual level of technology varies wildly across the galaxy, so while there will be at least one Forgeworld out there who can do better than the Tau at one thing, other Forgeworlds can, and sometimes are behind the Empire in that same area.

Ryza, for example, can shit on Tau plasma weapons (see: 90% of their armory) tech, but Bumfuck McNowhere the Forgeworld probably couldn't match the Fire Caste's designs for effectiveness without seriously compromising stability or efficiency.

>>52703986
The reason the U.S. had such a strong economy in the 50's and 60's was because the rest of the planet was rubble. The United States despite only having a fraction of the planets people, was creating over half of it's industrial output. So WWIII, economically, would've

A) Opened up all the markets east of Europe
B) Reduced competition even more

The Soviets throughout the 50's had extremely limited strike capability against the United States. It wasn't until 1956 that the Tu-95 was introduced, and their previous strategic bombers the Tu-16, and Tu-4 could barely reach the US at all. In fact the Tu-4 could only make one way flights to reach the continental US.

So it's very likely that few, maybe even no, American cities would get nuked. If that were the case America would've gone from the most powerful country in history, to He-Man Master of the Universe tier.

>Also, gonna need a heck of a citation on that 'teh gubmint wuz seekrit commies' claim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wljpYZ8wejA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White

>>52695799
hey guys i like the tau
im having fun making up fluff for my ocean sept world about the different underwater construction suits and the big animals and the trials by fire they have there
i hope we get more alien allies in the imperial armor book or the next codex
hope you guys have a nice day

File: TauTau.jpg (15KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 480x360px

Tau wa Tau Tau, uh Tau Tau

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQrQjNNZCAo

>>52701480
Damn your age is showing.

File: 1492046515172.jpg (14KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 200x200px

You could make them hate music!
You could have it so that they have like... Tau Elvis or something and he is, uh... Farsight?

>>52695799
>6,000 year old race
That is not the age of the race, but the time they went from spear chuckers to being uplifted by the ethereals.
Meanwhile humanities comparable advancement to reach their golden age in the setting's cannon is actually much shorter than that.
Additionally the DAoT is what everything the Imperium compares aliens to, and the tau aren't close yet.

>classless system
Blatantly wrong they have a rigid caste system where you are born into a very specific and narrow field of services you can perform for the greater good.

>Their tech is superior
The average level of their tech is better than in the Imperium, but the Imperium generally equips the majority of their armies with lower quality tech that can be massed produced.
The pinnacle of the Imperium's tech (let alone DAoT) is higher than the tau.

>Their strategies aren't stepped in tradition
This is wrong as well all of the tau's strategy is based off of Puretide's teachings as he is the greatest strategist that had ever lived among the tau.
When he reached old age (like 50) he began to gather the greatest of the Firewarriors to be his disciples (about 9~) and they were all frozen after Puretide's death to be brought out during times of need for the empire.
The first being used in this fashion was Farsight and the second Shadowsun.
One of the key themes represented in Puretide's students is none were able to master all of his teachings instead becoming a master on a single aspect hence the current fight between Mont'ka and Kauyon philosophies represented by Farsight and Shadowsun.

>ethereals aren't gods
They might as well be given how they are treated by Tau society

>They aren't communism
They were never meant to be communist

>The GG is benevolent
They are terrible to anyone who does not follow it, and are only good in comparison to the Imperium.

>>52703482
The US literally funded Pol Pot, they even went so far as to give the Khmer Rouge food aid and let the people in the cities starve after the successful Viet intervention. There is reason why the Khmer Rouge was attacking Vietnamese villages, which led to the Vietnamese intervention.

>>52706185
No, the Tau are outright stated to be the guys with generally superior tech in their conflicts with the Imperium.

Look at the beating the Tau handed to the Imperial ground forces despite being out numbered for like 1000 to 1 maybe more. I mean the Imperials deployed billions of IG on Agrellan.

>>52705623
>1. the beast novels a shit. BL a shit.

Canon shit.

>>any exterminatus weapon classifies.

Out of the window because anyone and his mother can blow up a planet. I am talking about star system destroying weaponry.

>> titians

The Tau are not impressed with titans. They see the marines as the bigger threat in warfare since titans are slow and predictable huge targets.

>>52707368
...you mean like the fucking admech weapon they used to ignite an entire Nebula? I'm not even the anon you have been talking to but you have only been moving goalposts.

>>52702252
>Everyone Who Disagrees with Me Is a Child
>A guide to online political discussion for people who like Hitler

>>52706170
well then it's not fucking classless then is it you mong

>>52695799
>in a world where every ideology is looked at through a perverse mirror
>communism actually looks good compared to everything else

Makes sense to me anon.

File: 7c33f9da5a3629b4d428f0139d338b28b07475f456015ff0175cdb6f3c52ae52.jpg (37KB, 640x400px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 640x400px

>>52696988
Man that is the dumbest shit I've seen all fucking day. I'd give you a fucking gold medal if I could, that's some top tier stupid. That shit at the end about Venezuela had me in tears from laughing so hard.

>>52707444
It ignited the gasses that were there. It didn't magically start it. Damocles was full of gasses.

>>52707444
>>52707525
BTW that firestorm was possessed by tzeentch demons and has begun to attack the Tau.

>>52696988
Do you think Socialists believe that it is the "natural order of things"? Why do you people even open your mouths when you have such a proudly uneducated perspective on the people you're arguing against?

>>52707556
You mean it merged with a Warpstorm and gained sentience.

>>52707603
tomato tomato

>>52707590
lol, he thinks that people never starve in capitalist systems and calls black people "negroes", he's fucked in the head even for a right-winger

>>52707525
Yes that's what a nebula is, a bunch of gas in space. Now do you know why that is impressive? Because a nebula doesn't combust like that.

>>52707525
That isn't how nebula work.

File: Tau Empire.png (1MB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 600x800px

In every single communist regime, the outcome is always the same.

The people suffer for one reason or another (often many at the same time), the state maintains that it's for their own good, the people try to rebel, the regime cracks down to protect itself and people get shot, re-educated and gulaged.

You need to show what happens to those who do not fall in line with the greater good. The firing squads, the torture rooms, the prison work camps and the billions of bodies from the ones who did not want to be part of a completely retarded Scientology-tier cult.

File: Solzhenitsyn.jpg (19KB, 353x450px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 353x450px

>>52704127
>slake your fucking nationalistic boner
In what world do you live in that the Soviet Union is not one of the most criminal regimes in history? I can't think of any more deserving of punishment

Their invasion of Poland, Finland, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia.
Their support of Mao, who killed 40,000,000 of his own people.
Their democide of millions of "kulaks".
Their enslavement of murder of millions of people in the gulags.
Their Holodomor, where millions of Ukranians were starved to death (a fate worse than Hitler's gas chambers).

Japan was almost entirely destroyed as punishment for their crimes, yet the Soviets got to walk. Destroying the Soviet Union not only would've been just punishment for their massive list of crimes, it would've saved the victims of Pol Pot, Mao, Castro, Mugabe, an all the other "not real communists"

>>52707700
>Japan was almost entirely destroyed as punishment for their crimes
What is this idiotic bullshit? TWO cities were nuked, Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Japan's industry was left largely intact and so was it's ruling class, it's officers and it's Emperor. Compared to the other Axis members, Japan was completely unscathed because of their deals with the Americans.

They KNEW Japan would remain the de facto power in the Pacific, so they cosied up to them immediately and made sure the surrender terms weren't too harsh. Barely any Japanese soldiers were punished for their monstrous behavior and the Emperor wasn't touched in any way, as part of the agreement.

It was fucking laughable. Less than a decade later America began getting all the cheap electronics from the Japanese war factories converted into making radios and shavers. Don't come here with that stupid nonsense.

File: imrs.png (100KB, 480x406px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 480x406px

>>52707685
>Capitalism never represses citizens using violence.
>Capitallism doesn't use an ingroup to justify violence while exporting weapons worldwide to create an endless source of war profit.

k. keep drinking that Capitalist kool aid, pig dog.

>>52697038
nobody looks badass with a pony tail.

>>52707700
>blaming Mao for postwar famine
>actually believing American historical statistics

>>52707667
Unless you throw a bomb at it.

>>52707847
I hate to burst your rose tinted glasses Mao, but capitalism doesn't. Capitalism is a system where labor organizes itself through voluntary transactions. Technically, communism doesn't do these things either. You know what does? Corruption. When the state's monopoly of force is subverted to enrich state actors rather than the population it serves, oppression happens. This is possible in either capitalism or communism, but is definitely more frequent in communism. You want to know why Pot? Because communism is the most profitable system for private actors to subvert: When you subvert a system with free markets, you aren't gaining much power. But when you subvert a system with controlled markets, you gain the entire fucking market.

Where there is government, there is corruption. Until we fix this, all these issues will pop up. But Communism is even more fucked at the hands of corruption than any other possible economic system.

>>52707847
>"hurr durr blocking highways is a right that CAPITALISTS are trying to impede!"

get legally run over, antifag

>>52707847
"Protests", aka NGOs intimidating normal citizens with gangs of thugs.

>>52707912
>moving the goalposts

>Capitalism is a system where labor organizes itself through voluntary transactions

LoL. K. No. Capitalism is a system where the entitled extract every spare penny from the workers through rent, fees, and profit and leave them all but starving to death, or were you not paying attention to the world around you in 2008?

>>52707935
>public space is actually fully subsidized infrastructure for the automotive and petroleum industries.
Totally not corporate fascism.
>>52707955
Corporations are people. Works both ways, faggot.

>>52699369
wow. that IS creepy.
so if an experience doesn't cotton to what you already know about the universe, your mind tends to reject it?

>>52707979
reddit please leave

>>52708006
Wrong again, faggot.

Go back to Stormfront.

>>52707998
Don't worry. After the new Teddy leaves office, we'll have the new Taft to break your faggy tech monopolies.

>>52707979
I never moved any goalposts anon. That was my first time responding to your idiocy.

>>52708047
Just because you only decided to jump into the game just now doesn't change the rules, Anon.

>>52708032
What does that even mean? I ride a bicycle.

>>52707834
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gekdt0QwFQw
Oh child. Close to half of all of the metropolitan area in the home islands was completely obliterated. The United States devastation upon the Japanese completely unparalleled in all of history. And the sad fact of warfare is that it was completely necessary. It took destruction unseen since Sodom to make the Japanese surrender.

https://archive.org/details/TheFogOfWarElevenLessonsFromTheLifeOfRobertS.Mcnamara

>>52708074
sorta like the thing with the monkeys, the banana and the firehose?

>>52708074
I noticed you still haven't responded to why communism is more succeptible to corruption than capitalism. And why the corruption is inevitably more dangerous in communist countries than in capitalist countries.

>>52707979
Capitalism is imperfect yes. But how is communism any better? Every time it's been tried it has either completely fallen apart (USSR) or transformed itself into capitalism (PRC).

>>52708030
You know that 'nazi' means National SOCIALIST right?

>>52707911
Stars literally form in nebula and don't cause a chain combustion. If you're gonna be as dumb as the rest of the peeps in this thread I'll go back to wip where cool fluff is actually talked about.

>>52708089
THAT NEVER HAPPENED!!

We were getting SLAUGTERED by the Japanese, we were losing 10 men for 1 we sent. Ground troops hadn't even LANDED on the main island before we dropped the bomb!

The conflict hovered primarily around a few small islands that were rich in oil and other natural resources.

God damn this historical revisionist BULLSHIT!

>>52695819
So like it currently is? A la Venezuela and North Korea

>>52708123
I don't usually respond to nonsensical bullshit. Have you fucking been paying attention to American politics for the past fucking decade?
>>52708134
Oh, you're actually retarded. Carry on. Sorry for your obvious disability. It must be hard.

File: Pew Pew.png (2MB, 1159x811px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1159x811px

>>52708143
Necrons literally ignited a nebula using a solar beam. Who're you trying to fool?

>>52695799
Tau have just about nothing to do with communism. They have both a rigid caste system and rigid classes within their castes. They have way more in common with Japan/East Asia.

>>52708162
And in any case, a proportional response just led to more devastation! It caused the war to drag on and on in Germany and the allied front. More people DIED in history due to escalation than ever did to a swift, brutal retaliation!

>>52708123
>And why the corruption is inevitably more dangerous in communist countries than in capitalist countries.
Because dissent is illegal in Communist countries. China, even today has millions of political prisoners. Anyone who is a personal enemy can quickly can become an enemy of the state if the right strings are pulled. It was common in the Soviet Union for people to rat on their neighbors and get them gulag'd so they can steal their apartment.

>>52708087
You're the one rambling about corporations, not me. And I haven't seen gangs of corporation thugs terrorizing my country. Because it isn't 1870 anymore.

>>52708174
>american politics

Oh you mean the system of government that has steadily been creeping more and more into authoritarianism as a result of socialist market reforms and anti-terrorism laws?

>>52708212
What do you think cops are?

>>52708162

>We were getting SLAUGTERED by the Japanese, we were losing 10 men for 1 we sent. Ground troops hadn't even LANDED on the main island before we dropped the bomb!


This is totally wrong. Far more Japanese were dying late war than Americans. Even on Iwo Jima, the best defended of the islands tactically speaking, the Japanese lost over twice what the US did.

>>52708201
Allowing things to escalate leads to more violence, silencing opposition quickly leads to only resentment.

If your people get upset, so be it. At least, mercifully, they will still have their lives. There is no way the Japanese could have won. The most they could have ever accomplished would have been a stalemate, they were outnumbered 3:1, Germany had already lost the war and their supply lines in China had been cut.

>>52708237
>no true scotsman
k

>>52708162
I don't even understand this bait.

>>52708188
Oh I'm sorry the most technologically advanced race that manages to break physics consistently achieved the same thing. Like I said, goalposts.

>>52708249
>10 men for 1

Hyperbole, but statistically you are incorrect, Americans were suffering more casualties than they were.

We were trying to CAPTURE Japanese territories and industry, we wanted them for ourself.

>>52708256
Except, when I entered this discussion, I only mentioned economic systems. My definition of capitalism hasn't changed, and recognizing that America isn't a capitalist system anymore is not shifting at all.

We were not going to bomb oil refineries and factories when we wanted to capture for ourselves.

This is just the first thing I've heard that wasn't obvious revisionist bullshit that was a just a flat out lie.

Stop rewriting history!

>>52708282
Drugs no good for you, no. Lay drugs off now, please, very bad.

>>52708317
>>52708253
>>52708249
>>52708162

We should take this to /his

you guys with the commie shit should take it to /pol

sorry mods, plz prune thread, kthxby

>>52708298
That is textbook no true scotsman fallacy.

>>52708326
sorry, its just something i'm passionate about. please, please, please source this shit. source the shit out of it.

Then maybe have it delivered to the Franklin Library or the American Historical Society or some shit, cause that just... i dunno it sounds absolutely WRONG.

So gaiz... lets try to salvage this thread...

Do you think that, in the long game, the Hitler Pope theory might have turned out of the same timeline in which America never decided to drop the A-Bomb on Japan, Japan had beaten America to a stalemate, and Hitler had become Pope-In-Exhile to the Russian orthodox chruch?

>>52708428
Because Hitler as Pope sounds like exactly what must have occurred to the 40k universe. A 1000 year reich that loses track of its own chronology due to historical revisionist conspiracy carried out by the militant echlesiarchy...

>>52708366
I don't think you know how logical fallacies work.

>>52698650
And there have been as many rebuttals of every other moral/economic theory. Let's use the common alternative to utilitarianism: moral absolutism (wherein obeying moral law is an end-in-itself). If someone takes shelter in your house from a murderer and that murderer asks you if that person is in your house, must you tell the truth, provided that "telling a lie is wrong" and "aiding a murderer in murdering someone" are both moral rules?

>>52708487
Nobody will ever care what you think.

>>52707027
Yeah, cause fuck our allies and humanity. Only AMERICA deserves to exist.

>>52701523
>Communist spies (always jews)

Well, that wraps things up here. >>>/pol/

>>52708205
>Because dissent is illegal in some socialist countries
ftfy
Communist country is a non-sequitur

>>52700328
By that standard all governments are communist, because of the collectivist nature of policing, military, and emergency service care.

>>52708549
That's funny, coming from the person who keeps responding.

File: 2F25254F00000578-0-image-a-19_1449513400467.jpg (46KB, 306x444px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 306x444px

>>52707027
America doesn't have enough cohesion. They would never last 1000 years as an empire. Their values are too disparate, too diverse.

If america conquered the world, it would fall apart the next day.

>>52708591
>By that standard all governments are communist
to some extent, they all are. they are all taking your money, goods and services to spent on something you wouldn't have otherwise paid for.

>>52702878
Plato's republic has never existed: and, indeed, cannot exist by it's very nature as a utopia. It's just Plato spitballing about the "ideal" form of government (and it's pretty crazy: music being banned due to it being distracting, human husbandry, etc.)

>>52708648
AnCap please. That's stretching the definition of Communist as thin as people who decry the barter system as a tool of Big Corporate stretch the definition of capitalism.

>>52708932
I'm saying no matter what their title, people who handle the tax money are usually appointed by a dictator or elected representative. The people generally don't get to decide how to spend their tax money.

>>52708932
Again, not saying its bad, just saying that the only real difference between communist and capitalist countries is how much of your money they take and what they spend it on.

>>52709019
I like roads and I hate toll booths. I think some government is good, but too much government is bad.

>>52700241
http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=113643.0

>>52707998
>Corporations are people. Works both ways, faggot.

You reeeaaally don't know what that actually means in legal terms, do you?

Because it most certainly does NOT mean you can hire browncoats to do intimidate people like you're the new Klan.