WH40K Lasguns is shitty?

>>52682311
>at the rate of an assault rifle
>doesn't know his lore
anon...

Because ingame it's about as strong as a flashlight.

>>52682336
>>52682311
Lasguns vs unarmored humans are brutal.
But in 40k everything that guardsmen fight agaist is way stronger than a simple human or has more armor, so in comparison to everything else, they hit as a flashlight.
In comparison with today's scar or ak47 or whatever, they are a fucking big bertha

>>52682311
Because lasgun technology would be a high sci fi weapon, in 40k that is basically a Space Opera it is shit.

When your enemies are using tanks and your weapon is a spear with a stone tip, it end looking like shit by comparison.

Now please delete this thread before you look more retarded

>>52682311
Because the miniature wargame cannot possibly capture the "rich" lore of w40k without being completely unplayable.

Check out the 40k RPG thread, Lasguns are pretty useful in the 40k universe as represented in the fluff.

Of course, if the table-top were closer to the universe, 50%of all combat would be "Guard vs. Traitor Guard" or "Guard vs. Orks", in either case the Lasgun is a decent-enough weapon. However, the actual meta of the table-top is something like 75+% MEQ so the Lasgun looks a bit shit.

>>52682335
to clarify, bolters shoot at around 1 bolt per second

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Think of it like this.

Imagine an army armed with 9mm firearms in a world where everyone else is still running around with arquebuses. They'd kick ass.

Meanwhile in the real world... 9mm ain't shit.

Autism is a hell of a drug, you should try limiting yourself there, OP

>>52682459
>Imagine an army armed with 9mm firearms in a world where everyone else is still running around with arquebuses. They'd kick ass.
I..don't think that's a very apt description.

>>52682558
He is saying modern world guns are better than future space magic weapons.

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Fuck it, this thread is now for posting your favorite Lasgun.

Ryza master-race reporting in.

>>52682459
shit. looking up the range of these guns on wikipedia makes the SMGs look so shit. Effective range from 100m - 200m depending on the gun? Christ. I don't know if an army with SMGs would even last more than a couple battles against armies of arquebusiers.

>>52682647
The bent barrel has always bug me in that image.

>>52682311

Lasguns and carapace armour are great against other humans and a logistic dream. But were not just fighting other humans now are we?

We are fighting Eldrich nightmares from the stars and we might as well be equipped with a lightbulb on a stick and cardboard armour in comparison.

>>52682311

You're opening a big tub O' skub with this thread anon.

Some sources say they're about the same as a rifle from our time, some show them blasting limbs off and substantially more powerful.

I guess it depends what make you get.

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>>52682311
A Lasgun is good enough against a regular human without any armour. Flak Armour helps against Lasgun shots, but probably not for long, it's better against shrapnel and stubbers. Carapace Armour is even better than that, might as well take a lot of lasgun shots to get through this. But most of the fights the Guard/PDF is in, is against rebels and the occasional cultist, who have barely any armour, or just whatever they could loot.

But the battles we read about are against Orks, of which the stronger can shrug off bolter fire, Tyranids, who have more numbers than you have shots (if every single shot of you even manages to kill), Chaos Marines, who are, like loyal Space Marines, walking tanks. Then there are Eldar, who you'll probably never even hit to begin with, or Necrons, which you might manage to hit and maybe even damage, only for them to repair themselves, while ripping your very flesh off your bones.
Pretty much anything some Guardsman is going to fight is a lot tougher than him, that's why there should always be many Guardsmen firing their trusty Lasguns.

>>52682311
Because all the really dangerous things guardsmen often get massacred by are built like brick shithouses that can laugh off anything less then a hand grenade going off in their chest cavity.

>>52682666
>100m - 200m
that aint shit m8. modern m16s have an effective range of 500-800 meters.

>>52682933
I was calling them bad shit not good shit

>>52682933
100-200 the arquebusiers or the SMG? Your post was not clear enough or I'm just dense today.

>>52682311
It is much more powerful but the things it shoots at are all superhuman bio engineered monsters in heavy armour

>>52682770
>Some sources say they're about the same as a rifle from our time, some show them blasting limbs off and substantially more powerful.


Wait where?

>>52682311
Because 40k is a shitty game where the fluff is entirely separate from the crunch and nothing makes sense and the points don't matter except when you are playing with the loser brigade of tryhard WAAC power gamers who don't ever feel the satisfaction of success from anything else in their sad pathetic little excuses of a life?

>>52683068
Gaunt's Ghosts has Las guns hitting like a .50.

>>52683079
But a heavy stubber is .50 and is stronger than a lasgun.

>>52682311
In war, a weapon is only as impressive as its effectiveness against a target. In 40k, the weapons are more powerful than what we have today, but the targets are ones that wouldn't even register getting hit by a weapon from the real world, so that doesn't really matter.

>>52683075
Why did you even click this thread if you hate 40k?

>>52683093
Yes, no and maybe.

Lasguns, Stubbers and Autoguns are different things

Writers consfuse them and the table top is not granular enough.

Stubbers are basically moder day guns, going from revolvers, semi/ automatic pistols/rifles to artillery, etc.

Autoguns are space magic almost railgun tech. They are the middle ground between lasguns and stubber.
They are almost as recoilless as lasgun, but still requiere ammo like normal guns, some cases they have space magic ammo that is caseless. They are just flat out better than stub weapons assuming you can make them. Since stub are easier to make.

Lasguns are well the miracle weapon.

Stubs are stub and come in different shape sizes and forms.
While autoguns could be for tacticool operatores operating. Where you need precision and ammunition type flexibility.

TL:DR stubs are modern weapons, autogun are space magic recoiless modern weapons and lasguns are miracle weapons

>>52683173
Maybe he's from /b/ or /pol/. You know...
>hate thing XY
>Know where to find it
>spend hours looking it up and getting mad at it
>complain on a togonian chocolate licking board about it

>>52683093
when was this?

>>52682311
it is far stronger than a normal gun, but it doesnt matter since your foes are stronger still

>>52682445
Most visual depictions of boltguns (like the vidya) seem to put boltguns closer to 120 or 180rpm than 60.

Still slower than your typical assault rifle though.

>>52683298
dunno. Thought I read it ages ago. Probably incorrect. Might have just got it from people comparing Heavy Stubbers to .50 machine guns, since they look similar.

>>52682666
When they line up in a row to unleash a volley, I doubt the effective range of an smg is going to really matter.

>>52682666
the MP5 can hit up to 200m accurately, and is pinpoint accurate at that, and has the benefit of a pistol grip and stock so you can do this very often
an arquebus is so inaccurate that aiming was pointless, better to just volley fire them and hope you hit something, not discounting that the lead shot is sub-sonic and thus more affected by wind and gravity

then you get into 30 rounds vs 1, 2 second reload vs 30 second, full auto vs single shot, and so on

i will give the loading action of the musket coolness points, using the ramrod is a lot more iconic than the HK slap

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>>52683392
>>52683298
It's probably because the forgeworld heavy stubber looks a bit an M2 Browning (except for their Vraks series' heavy stubber with looks like a bulked out MG42.)

To my knowledge, the caliber of the heavy stubber's never been named, and is probably variable as the heavy stubeber (like autoguns and stub pistols) seem to be a class of gun rather than a type of gun in and of itself.

>>52683514
Autogun technology and stubber technology are different things

Autoguns are basically railguns, while stubbers are normal ballistic weapons.

>>52683376
I always hated vidya bolters firing so fast I always imagined them going chug. Chug.Chug. and plumes of smoke and each shell exploding.

But in games they just spray like 9mm and make little poofs of dirt.

There was one thing that said a unarmored torso shot from a lasgun cooked most your organs and you were basically dead no matter what. Maybe the munitorium manual?

>>52683540
Point is, autoguns seem to mean "cartridge-less rifle" of any type rather than a specific design. Same with stubbers. And thus not all autoguns and stubbers are necessarily the same caliber. In fluff anyway.

>>52683540
Autoguns are still simple ballistic weapons only using fancier ammunition and maybe some recoil reducing parts, still not even close to railguns.

>>52683578

I've no idea about them being cartridge-less or "railguns", never heard either of those claims before.

Different calibers still falling under the names of "autogun" or "stubber" does appear. Which would make sense considering how general the names are and how variable something so simple would be from world to world even within military issue.

>>52683581
Autoguns are space magic tech. Railguns might be not the correct word, but the Imperium use the railgun concept in other things like plasmaguns.

>>52682367
This. They'd be amazing if WE had them, but we're not fighting the shit they are.

>>52683655
They are as much magic tech as an AN-94 or G11.

Fairly sure "stub" weapons are MOSTLY just "pre-automatic" style cartridge based weapons.

Revolvers, bolt action, semi-auto rifles with larger projectiles.

Then "auto" covers automatic pistols, submachine guns and smaller calibur rifles.

Of course the heavy stubber skews that a little, and no doubt over the various writers and pieces of fluff there has been no end of mixing between the two.

I would presume calling it a heavy stubber comes from a warping of it being an older concept. Before automatic guns were common you had soldiers mostly running around with stub guns and being supported by "heavy stubbers" on tripods.

That would at least line up with tradition and the holes in the Imperiums knowledge of history.

>>52683173
I don't hate 40k. I hate what 40k has become today because of GW marketing to tryhard WAAC faggots.

>>52682311
It's a strength 3 weapon. Know what else hits with strength 3? A fit human with a knife.

>>52683687
Autoguns are a mix of those

Autopistols are retarded guns that allow large calliber bullets to be shot at full auto without breaking a hand or going everywhere due to recoil.
The fucking things can be made rather easily. That is the space magic part.

The concept on itself is nothing to write home about.

>>52683707
Nop Stub automatic pistols are a thing.

Automatic weapons is not what Autoguns are.

>>52683622
never did anon say railgun

>>52683759
A grey think hits with strength 3 and a space marine with strength 4 there's a lot of variance in those numbers.

Autoguns could be anything from AK47s to Dark Age of technology uranium block splinter guns firing at 3000rpm. If it goes dakka dakka when you pull the trigger thats an Autogun in game terms.

I always imagined humans would also call ork weapons Autoguns and axes and trucks it always bugs me in a BL story when a human says Trukk.

>>52683573

I thought they were great in Fire Warrior. Really had that feeling of chugging out huge, monstrous ammo that tore things apart. Only problem was that by the time you got it, you were fighting Marines constantly and they took forever to kill.

>>52683873
And by grey I mean gretchin

>>52683883
One of the few good thing about that game.

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>>52683622

>>52683180
A G11 is a caseless weapon and it's not space magi...Disregard that, caseless are actually space magic IRL too.

>>52684017
Now what the fuck are stub?

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>>52684034
non-caseless auto

desu, I use them interchangeably in the RPG games I run. It's not like there's a statted "stub-rifle" to contrast with the autogun.

Lasguns are fucking amazing from a modern day standpoint, and I'm not even talking about their firepower. Unfortunately, 40k isn't modern day and we're talking about a setting where literal magic exists and some guns can fire diamond-tipped gyrojet rounds that can rip a man in half if it connects to the torso. Lasguns just can't compare to the rest of the insanity that is 40k.

>>52684057
But we do have autopistols.

At the end of the day the difference is the level of retarded dakka auto weapons can spit?

>>52683063

Aren't 90% of the enemies the IG fights are rebels, insurrectionists and cultists?

People who are armed with pistols and armored with cardboard?

>>52684076
Pretty much. RoF is the only real difference between a stub pistol and an autopistol.

>>52683816
>>52684017

Well you learn something new everyday.

I even worked out the reason. I never played 2nd ed 40k, I only played Necromunda and the Necromunda wargear never lists them as caseless.

Thanks.

>>52684091

Though due to GWs constant tendency to pick random numbers for statistics in universe at least one source lists autoguns with a rate of fire 100 less than an M16.

>>52684376
>GWs constant tendency to pick random numbers for statistics in universe
The worst part were the Armor thicknesses for Imperial armored vehicles. WWII tanks were better protected.

>>52687096
They retconned the 150mm leman russ to be 150inches now.

>>52687096
It could be that whatever Imperial vehicles are made of is not only stronger, but heavier.

I don't trust GW to be that intelligent though.

>>52682445
That is slow as fuck, damn. I always pictured them shooting more like 300-400rpm, which is still stupid slow for an automatic weapon. That would make it extremely controllable though, which would be nice.

>>52682666
Are you serious? An army with SMGs as their standard weapon would trounce arquebusiers in all arenas. They would have the benefits of individual accuracy, rate of fire, the ability to effectively move in a modern tactical way (i.e. fireteams and squads), and their rounds would actually penetrate the enemy's body armor. It would be a total blowout.

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>>52682445
Surely they're faster than that. They can even fire in 4 round bursts. Having to hold the gun on target for 4 seconds would be pants on head retarded.

It seems like what the video games get wrong (the most accurate depiction is probably Dawn of War 2 or Fire Warrior) is that a marine will almost always be firing in semiautomatic, because for the majority of targets one is enough. Hell there are a few instances in the books where the detonation of a bolter round killed multiple people in close proximity.

>>52687096
That because WW II are using pure steel at best. 40k tanks are using space metal, that 50 mm of it can give you 100-150mm of RHA equivalent. So you don't need the same amount of thickness.

By your logic, even ol' King Tiger has a better protection than Abrams.

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>>52687096
Actually, imperial vehicles are roughly consistent with what the public knowledge of military technology would be in the late 80's and early 90's.

Which makes some sense, since they were made by historical nerds at that time, with significantly more limited access to the kind of hard data we have at our fingertips now. No google, no wikipedia, the soviet union still being a thing. Give 'em some credit.

>>52683884
Gretchin are S2.

>>52687891
Where? got a pic of this?

>>52687891
Just make "conventional steel" in 40k better, because future

>>52689255
This. Plasteel and ceramite. If it can make terminators insanely tough, why are Russes made out of paper?

>>52687891
>12 feet of armor

>>52683180
Autoguns include things like machine pistols. Stubs are around WWII while Autos are our time + caseless.

>>52693500
Autopistols are the machine pistols and SMGs. The description in >>52684017 says autoguns are comparable to a modern gun, but are more advanced.

>>52683873
In Raid on Kestorel-Novem the Elysians and Orks call the ork constructs with the orky names, whereas the Space Marines name them in Gothic
>There it is, brother-captain, the Enemy's Stomper!

I loved that little detail. FW campaign books are beautiful

>>52693599
GW books used to do that too. Kinda washed to the wayside as orks became less relevant.

What's interesting is the orks had their own vernacular for all the imperial shit too. "Beakies" being the most well known.

40k is really bad at portraying the 40k fluff. It isn't good at anything actually other than selling expensive models.

Lasguns are effective, easy to produce, and easy to maintain.

>>52694916
There's also the fact that their power packs can be charged by plugging them into a wall and throwing them into an open fire if you're desperate enough, and the guns can be overcharged to make a makeshift explosive if you have enough balls to piss off your local techpriest. Lasguns are actually great weapons just by sheer virtue of how tough and useful they are.

>>52682647
Where do power cell go?

>>52695097
Maybe the front grip is the power cell (like on the Bison SMG)? Or maybe it goes into the grip? Or it's flush with the front grip?

>>52682311
It can hit like a .300 WinMag but an Ork don't give a fuck until most of his 'ed and torso is gone. The fact is that the standard IG is armed with a weapon modern armies would kill for and clad in armor that makes our shit look like the t-shirt........but it's facing a fucking DEMON INFESTED 10,000 YEAR OLD SUPER SOLDIER WITH A GUN THAT FIRES CONCENTRATED RAPE.

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>>52695097

I think maybe the power cell is the bit just in front of the trigger?

>>52682336
>>52682311

niggha, ... i've won entire campaigns with las guns

24'' strength 3, rapid fire--- X 300? shits going to drop after my mega volleys

>>52695291
Unless it's anything with an AV.

>>52695343
>Unless it's anything with an AV.

implying any still uses vehicles in current 7th edition 'fuck vehicles in the ass' edition

>>52695291
>300 lasguns
That's 1,500 points of guardsmen. They better be killing something.