/STG/ - Star Trek General

>not "Don't bunt you pagh testing fuck" edition
Do you even Buck Bokai?

>>52661594
>Star Trek thought baseball would be the sport with falling viewership and a London expansion team by the 2010s
>instead it's the NFL

>>52661779
Could you imagine the DS9 baseball episode but with football?
>Vulcans in football gear
>Rom in football gear
>You know Worf would fucking love this shit

>>52661862
That would have been fantastic.
>Leeta, Dax, and Kira in cheerleader outfits
>the secret play is a flea flicker to Rom
>who gets hit in the middle of the field by a Vulcan at full speed after the catch
>anguished_ferengi.mp3
>Morn joins the niners as a lineman
>TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO BLITZ
>Garak gets caught spying on the other team

>>52661594
>baseball humour

Is... is this good? I really don't know.

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I'm glad barbarians are still viable in a space opera setting.

>>52661862
Worfs' childhood trauma, the reason he's got a stick up his ass, is because he killed a kid during football.

>>52659802
Is it just me or do the collars on these uniforms look really out of place? For whatever reason, whenever I see one, I'm reminded of a little baby version of those huge, frilly, Shakespearean collars and that just doesn't jive with the military-esque rest of the uniform.

I'd probably be fine if they got rid of the texture and made it just plain white cloth, or made it the same red as the rest of the shirt, or both, but as-is it really bothers me.

>>52663899
There is actually one with a red collar, the white signifies Command. For some reason, the WoK uniforms had 7 department colours rather than the usual 3.

>>52663880
death to the opposition

>>52663933
Interesting, I hadn't noticed that when I watched it.

Looking at the different colors I realized the ones I thought looked good were the ones that were too dark to let you see the ribbing easily, so I'd really just want a plain old collar of smooth fabric.

Other than that those are one of the best ST uniforms.

>>52663933
In fairness, if they split it like they did with STO's boffs, it would work better with the whole "identify someone's specialisation at a glance" schtick that the colours are supposed to be for.

>Gold => Engineering, Operations
>Blue => Science, Medical
>Red => Tactical, Security
(+Command and Diplomatic Corps somewhere in there)

>>52663981
They reused the WoK uniforms in TNG, only without the collar on a few occasions. Most notably in Yesterday's Enterprise.

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>Shatposting is real

>>52664487
The memes are so real that the Tamarians probably have a proverb for it.

>>52664544
Shatner, his keyboard ready

>>52664544
>>52664703
Shatner, his smile wide
Takei, his face fallen

>>52664487
I bet the Iconians did this.

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>>52664487
I feel like he's the kinda guy that just shitposts on /ck/ all day except for when occupying /an/.

>>52664884
Takei at goatse.

>>52663516
The whole point of the sequence was to show the Prophets how hitting the baseball would result in a different outcome every time. A bunt would do the same thing, but would lead to a relative handful of outcomes (somebody on the infield or else the catcher would get the ball most likely).

>>52664487
>yfw you realize he's a leaf

>>52664184
It doesn't look bad, honestly.

>>52664487
What a wonderful world.

>>52664184
It's not bad, but the fact that there's no belt and the complete lack of a collar kind of throws it off.

>>52670528
I can take not having the belt, but the loss of the undershirt makes the Yesterday's Enterprise variant look bad.

>>52670528
>>52670566
Pretty sure that's cause they lost them.

>>52670775
They only found 4 in the run up to Undiscovered Country, yeah. The episode where Wesley makes his dad in the hologram was when they discovered they lost them. Personally, I ignore the lack of belt and undershirt in those episodes, and assume the swap to the jumpsuit was just to fuck with Picard and the rest of the Enterprise-D crew until the swap to the two piece TNG outfit.

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we know anything about the next lockbox? my gut tells me it's tzenkethi but hey ya never know sometimes

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>>52661779
>Also predicted economic instability, mass unemployement and massive income inequality violations by the 2020s
>And fedora-wearing edgelords

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>>52671814
Maybe, but so far no genetic engineering or improvements on mankind.
This timeline sucks, we better end up with the midriff uniforms and agony booths!

>>52671862
The Agony booth will come about as an offshoot of VR technology. Just you wait

>>52671891
And the midriff uniforms?

>>52673026
They will be part of the counterculture that will develop against the fatculture the femenists are pushing.

Sure, we don't have the genetic supermen, but we have all the other ingredients, they just need time to finish baking.

>>52673209
Counterculture... or simply a case of all the fatties dying off early once things get really bad and society simply can't or won't support the medical treatments needed to keep them alive whilst still remaining hugely fat?

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>>52663946

>>52673209
The dream lives

>>52661779
Is Baseball doing well? I never hear anything good about it.

>>52673303
Or we'll eat them.

Why is Captain Janeway a war criminal?

>>52673967
Because she's a power-mad psychopath with delusions of competence and no one who can give her orders not to be one.

>>52673967
She's not really. She's inconsistent as all fuck, and she makes some really dodgy decisions (siding with the Borg, placing the prime directive over the good of her fellow officers). Had she been written better she could have been fantastic.

>>52674489
Allying with the Borg (defacto state of war between them and the Federation) and equipping them with weapons, let alone ones as destructive as they made, is definitely a warcrime.

>>52674537
Treason, maybe. Not a warcrime. Let's not forget that the Undine's baseline weaponry can kill planets. I think Starfleet would get on board with stopping that.

>>52674607
>baseline weaponry can kill planets

Star Fleet can also do this, just less dramatically and more time consuming.

>>52673303
>what even is a post-scarcity society

>>52674698
The original Enterprise could do this, given enough time.

Starships are no joke.

>>52674905
Kirk ordered it on one episode.

>>52673967

Long story short? She gave WMDs to the Borg, a "species" the Federation is at war with, knowing full well that they'd use it to attempt to genocide their enemies (Species 8472 in this case) for a shortcut.

Everything else she does that's questionable is really just icing on that particular cake.

>>52675072

Allow me to amend that with "Janeway DEVELOPED and then gave WMDs specifically designed to kill Species 8472 in return for a shortcut". As >>52674607 said, it may not actually be a warcrime, but it is definitely treason and crimes against sapient species.

And that's how she got that sweet, sweet admiral's pip.

>>52674905
Which is weird because the amount of antimatter used shouldn't have been anywhere near enough to produce a blast that big, but lolphysicsinstartrek

>>52675707
Still though, any warp-capable starship is technically capable of having its fuel or its power distribution media used to create ridiculously potent IEDs on demand.

>>52674698

Well, we know phasers are powerful enough to cut through a planet's crust. They could create enough thermal boreholes to render planets more or less uninhabitable to humanoid life. That same power could easily scour unshielded structures and even cities off the map.

And that's not even getting into the destructive potential of antimatter warheads beamed directly into structural weak points or command bunkers or any of that. If used aggressively, and against a target incapable of shooting back, a starship is a civilization ending weapon.

Fortress worlds (which we've never seen, but must logically exist) would be tough nuts to crack by conventional means, since all the weapons and defenses a starship has available would also be present groundside with the added bonus of having industrial scale reactors, replicators, and resources.

However... fortress worlds have the disadvantage of not being able to move at warp, and things like the Genesis device make shields and phasers a joke.

I can't believe we're still on the fucking Borg. You're a bunch of energy-budget plebs.

The Q did it. There you go. Plot holes solved. Fuck off already.

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>>52675922
>Fortress worlds (which we've never seen, but must logically exist) would be tough nuts to crack by conventional means


We've seen them.

For that matter, we've seen a Fortress Universe in the hands of Species 8472.

>>52673928
It is, actually. There have been a lot of changes in MLB lately like the Cubs winning the World Series last year, so matchups are interesting again. MLB also has a reasonably priced legal way to stream every out of market game you want, unlike the NFL, so they don't get hurt as much by people watching less TV.

>>52673303
>Implying they wont die of heart failure even if we turned into a post scarcity society tomorrow

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>TFW I don't have the money to freeze self so I'll be around when we make first contact with hot green alien women ;_;

>>52677683
Short of a full invasion force, I'd say Chintoka could have held out for the entire war

>>52677408
More talking about the Undine and Janeway, but hey, you tried.

>>52674990
That was Mirror-Kirk, no? I'll freely admit my TOS knowledge is very limited.

>>52683984
Nope, main Kirk. It's the one with the two worlds who virtualize war and he does it to basically call their bluff, if I recall correctly.

>>52683984

General Order 24: Just fuck their shit up.
It also came up in "Whom Gods Destroy"
The one with the Space Asylum.

>>52663933
I saw in another thread an anon saying having even 3 was silly, since standard officers don't wear their job on their sleeve. I think enlisted do though. Dozens of different job indicators.

Also, main cast in the movies only have like three different jobs, which is why it's even easier to not notice there being seven.

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>>52683984
What this guy said >>52684070

In that episode, taste of armageddon, or something, this happened...
>Kirk and gang carry an emissary into a star system where two planets have been at war for several hundred years
>They arrive and note that places are looking really nice and not at all like some war torn shithole
>They are then informed that a missile attack commences and they detect not a single explosion
>As they go around asking about things they are informed that the Enterprise got hit with these missiles and blew up
>Kirk calls Scotty
>Scotty answers "lol, nope"
>Kirk asks "what the hell?"
>He and gang discover that the planet is engaged in a mock war where all who "die" are sent to suicide booths
>Kirk and gang get captured and the folks on planet try to lure Enterprise crew down
>Scotty smells something fishy and says no
>Ambassador Fucktard McSuicidal says they should just beam down because it's probably nothing
>Planetsiders try to blow enterprise up with some sorta sonic disruptors
>"I don't sense anything" -Ambassador
>Meanwhile Kirk and gang get free and start breaking suicide booths
>They get captured again and Kirk is held at gunpint and told to order the crew down
>Kirk just yells "General order 24" into the space walkie talkie and after the planetsiders wrestle the phone out of him, he explains that it means "Glass the fuckers, exterminatus now!"
>Locals are losing their shit and agree to let the irate Kirk meet their leader
>It's a computer, what a twist
>Kirk uses chair, it's super effective
>Wild computer has fainted
>On the other planet folks realize that the other computer is down and think the other guys are about to go for a real shooting war with them
>"Hey, guys? Could we talk this thing through?"
>Peace is declared and Kirk leaves ambassador lemming on the planet to iron out a peace treaty between the two people

>>52674489
I liked her the three or four first times I ran through Voyager, and after hearing about the complaints against her character (and writing) online, I headcannon that all her mood swings and bad decisions and moralizing is just the stress driving her further into a guilt-fueled depression

>>52675178
One way or another, that pip is to keep her out of the captain's seat.

Either they think the stress may PTSD her into killing another species, or they want to brush her shit under the rug and keep it from happening again.

That being said, she'd come home a poster child for Star Fleet idealism. SF has slowly become more practical and battle ready because of the Borg and Dominion, hurting their image, and here comes Janeway, a captain that damned her crew for the Prime Directive, picked up multiple aliens and taught them how to improve themselves, made peaceful contact with dozens of species, ad survived Borg space. Label everything in her logs you don't like as Classified and BAM!, look at our perfect NotAtAllABrainslug admiral.

>>52684487

It's hilarious how her bad decisions keep happening in the post-Nemesis novels.
Until they catch up to her.

>>52680573
It's ok anon all those "cryogenics" places are pure psuedoscience run by scam artists so it wouldn't work anyway

>>52684193
Great episode to watch too. Also one of the episodes that shows what a great captain Scotty makes. Nothing gets by him.

>>52685239
Also the best line in the series.
>"Diplomats. The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank."

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>>52685239
"Scotty, we want you to be a captain"
"Bollocks to that, I'm an engineer"
"But Scotty"
"No"
"Please"
"No"
"Well we're giving you the rank anyway"
"Only if I can still be an engineer"
"Okay, fine, jeez"

And that's how the Excelsior and later Enterprise-A ended up with multiple captains.

Where's the replay for Survivor? When I try and do it straight from the sidebar, Daniels just pops up and says "no fuck off, I'm busy"

>>52686149
Go to the list of missions, then pick the featured episode and hit replay button.
Or something like that.

>>52684607
Hilights?

>>52686603
Decided to visit a """""neutralised""""" Borg tactical cube with only a fucking Oberth Class for backup, then got assimilated and became the new Queen. Got rekt fairly promptly after that.

Seriously, what do you expect when you do the exact opposite of what Picard """advises""" you to do? Multiple times?

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>>52687049
>Borg Queen
I thought we were talking about Janeway's mistakes, not First Contact's.

>>52684487
Yeah, pretty much. And I'm sure giving them all that borg/future tech didn't hurt her case either.

>>52687128
>he thinks First Contact's Queen was bad
You haven't watched any VOY whatsoever, have you? I envy you.

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>>52688740
Pretty sure he's just making a point about the Borg Queen being a bad idea from the inception
I would also envy him

>>52685998
That's something I really appreciate about TOS films. All of the characters were promoted and reassigned. Fate had to conspire to bring them back together, rather than in to TNG movies where they're still together "just cause"

>>52675922
>>52674698
Yeah I mean they had a whole season about looking for the Xindi after the single-crew prototype of their weapon ripped Earth a new anus from Florida to Venezuela, and the second prototype, small enough to fit into the NX01 launch bay, was expressly supposed to be capable of destroying a small moon (and would have, if it hadn't been sabotaged), while the actual weapon was probably several kilometers in diameter at a minimum and was supposed to be able to destroy the entire planet in, presumably, a single short burst.

But even digging a trench hundreds of meters deep for two or three thousand kilometers in a few minutes is astonishingly OP.

I believe Archer also threatened to level cities at one point.

>>52678657
>doctor gave me a pill and my kidney grew back

you really haven't grasped the core concept here

>>52689124
Inception is full of bad ideas, but it's not part of Star Trek and it wasn't released until decades after First Contact

get out of here, Janeway, or I'm calling the time cops

>>52690669

Riker is flat out refusing promotion.
Picard wouldn't let Crusher go for the life of him.
Data is content where he is, with his one true father figure and best friend.
LaForge wouldn't ever leave Data's side if he could help it.
Worf -did- get reassigned to DS9 and fate conspired to have them meet in First Contact.
Troi knows Picard, and having the same councillor is pretty useful.

I think that's all of them.

>>52664544
I just rewatched Darmok. Fucking hell but when TNG was good it was great.

>>52673967
How can she be a war criminal when there hasn't been a war?

>>52691686

The Feds are in a state of war with the Borg. They have been ever since Wolf 359. Both the Sovereign and Defiant class were expressly designed to counter the threat the Borg pose.

>>52691686
>paraphrasing Gul Darhe'el

I like you.

>>52663880
Playing regular football, not american football/handegg.

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Funny episodes of ST, and how this is one of the best (of the funny episodes anyway), go!

>>52691926
Most Ferengi-centric episodes

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"they'll be no tribble at all."

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>>52692240

>>52692262
I hate you for reminding me that this was a real episode.

>>52692262
I did say "most" for a reason

>>52691926
Threshold is underrated as absurdist comedy.

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>>52692287
There's been worse, see:
>>52692296

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Another alright one

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>>52692343
After seeing this, I haven't watched any voyager since.

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>>52692483
To be fair, you've seen the worst of the worst. Every other episode is better in comparison, so there is literally no harm in watching them.

>>52689124
>>52690692
Honestly, I didn't mind the Queen that much. Sure, it kinda goes against the Borg's whole faceless hivemind shit, but so did Locutus. If anything, the fearboner factor they went for in First Contact was the least worst way they could've done it, especially compared to the moustache-twirling villainy (with a dash of Best Girl's mommy issues) that she ended up as in VOY. Although considering how well Bane of Remus turned out, it might just be that TNG abhors BBEGs in general.

>>52692516
I just headcanon that the Queen in First Contact is a Locutus that's out of contact with the rest of the collective, similar to the way Hugh and his bunch acted. Maybe she's a scientist assimilated with a bit more will than most.

>>52692542
I'd have her as a system admin who's job it is to correct errors in the collective (like Picard's 3D puzzle virus) and break them out of logic spirals.

>>52692542
Now that I think about it, why was she even there in the first place on either the Cube initially or the Sphere?

>>52692514
>Every other episode is better in comparison

I wouldn't go that far. There's ones equally as bad but in different ways. Threshold might be mind-bendingly stupid but it at least isn't boring or focusing on one of the worse characters (not Kim, Nelix of Chakotay and Nelix at least tends to suffer in his own episodes).

Basically it's not The Fight aka the one everyone forgets because it's about Chakotay and boxing.
Or that one where Kim is so special that alien babes want to fuck and eat him.
Hell it doesn't even involve that fucking Irish village holodeck program.

>>52692516
>it might just be that TNG abhors BBEGs in general.
It does. the show rarely did straight villains decently. Christ on a bike they kept going back to Lore after all. It was far better when they were battling events and concepts rather than individuals.

>>52692516
>Two ships decloaking, sir! Romulan!
>Picard! YOU DON'T GET TO BRING FRIENDS!

>>52691826

How the fuck do you kill someone playing divegrass? Gridiron or rugby sure, but divegrass? Those faggots flop worse than the guys playing apehoop.

Thank you based /sp/

>>52692516
Villains are fairly rare in Star Trek. DS9 had the most not to mention the best, but that's because the static nature of the show lent itself well to recurring opponents.

You still have the likes of Madred in TNG, but the primary opponent is more often a natural disaster or a larger entity.

TOS had Khan, the Romulan U-Boat commander and proto-Q, but similarly, a lot of their enemies were completely inhuman in a manner that makes them impossible to characterise.

Voyager had the Borg Queen and Seska, basically. Seska, I would argue, is a better enemy because her knowledge of the crew and their former camaraderie makes her interesting. It was a bold move to turn a series regular/romantic interest into a villain and I only wish it had been handlers better.

>>52693253
Klingons find a way.

>>52693365
So... if you want to be a good villain, just be a Cardassian?

>>52693253
Klingon flying headbutts.

>>52693365
TOS had MUDD

>>52693395
Cardassians are objectively the best Trek race and Gul Dukat did nothing wrong.

>>52692742
>It was far better when they were battling events and concepts rather than individuals.

It pretty telling that Trek writers can't create well characterized or even plausible villains.

I've been reading the Piller/Insurrection book "FadeIn" another anon posted in a previous thread and it's an eye-opener. I always known that Roddenberry's "vision" had hamstrung writers but HOLY FUCK I didn't realize just how pernicious his soft left, free love, 60s, douchebaggery really was. The writing staff called it "Gene's Box".

Piller recounts his initial work on "The Bonding", the one where some "red shirt" scientist gets killed leaving behind a preteen son and an entity from the "planet of the week" shows up which has been made to look like the dead woman.

Piller explains how the kid is grieving and Rodden-douche cuts him off: "“This doesn’t work. In the Twenty-Fourth Century, no one grieves. Death is accepted as part of life.”

That moronic belief sort of explains why the Feds put kiddies aboard warships: "Well, they're going to eventually die anyway..."

Piller goes on to explain "Roddenberry was adamant that Twenty-Fourth Century man would evolve past the petty emotional turmoil that gets in the way of our happiness today. Well, as any writer will tell you, ‘emotional turmoil’, petty and
otherwise, is at the core of any good drama. It creates conflict between characters. But Gene didn’t want conflict between our characters. “All the problems of mankind have been solved,” he said. “Earth is a paradise.” Now, go write drama."

That last bit explains why Trek has such a problem dealing with people rather than events and concepts.

>>52693507
Did you get to the part about the costs of all the weird shit they were gonna for the movie, like the llama rental?

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>>52693507
>“All the problems of mankind have been solved,” he said. “Earth is a paradise.”
Funny how verbatim a quote that is.

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>>52690806

To be fair, the first promotion opportunity was for a flying shitbox that got zapped by the Borg.

He waitied patiently and got command of the sweet, sweet Luna class, USS Titan. It's like an Akira and Nebula got drunk one night and suddenly their kid is proving they should have been together all along.

>>52688740
Voyager just ran through the door that First Contact opened.

I had actually typed out "Voyager's mistakes", but that wouldn't be as honest about the origin of the problem.

>>52693507
>It pretty telling that Trek writers can't create well characterized or even plausible villains.

Dukat? Weyoun? Hell, you could even characterize Quark as a villain. Then again, they're all DS9.

>>52693752
>liking the Luna class
maximumpleb.webm

>>52694288
Being DS9 means they were all created and written after Gene's death, so they were able to get around a lot of Gene's limitations.

Sometimes it was gold, like the examples you mentioned, but other times it was Enterprise.

>>52694288
>Dukat? Weyoun? Hell, you could even characterize Quark as a villain. Then again, they're all DS9.

Exactly. By the time DS9 rolls out, the writers are no longer trapped in "Gene's Box".

>>52694961
Yeah, instead they were trapped in "Rick's Box" for Voyager and Enterprise.

>>52694361
>not liking the Luna class
The Titan stories themselves were crap but it's the single best post-VOY design.

>>52695044
Yeah, but Rick's box wasn't limited based on some weird future ideal, it was based off popularity. Berman hated things that were too good. Everything had to be generic and bland as possible.

>>52695044

But "Rick's Box" was different from "Gene's Box", knucklehead.

While "Rick's Box" also had it's huge flaws, it still allowed the writing that gave us Weyoun, Dukat, Quark, the Dominium War, or "In the Pale Moonlight". None of that would have ever been green-lighted if Rodden-Douche weren't taking his dirt nap.

>>52695166
>While "Rick's Box" also had it's huge flaws, it still allowed the writing that gave us Weyoun...
Berman was barely involved in DS9, as he was too busy driving VOY into the ground. He still had overall control of DS9 as he was the head honcho of all Trek, but VOY was UPN's flagship, while DS9 was just syndication, and thus VOY had the priority (notice that DS9 got consistently good after TNG ended).

>>52664487
>shatner shitposts on 4chan

I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I didn't think many old people would be on here.

>>52695734
You'd be surprised. Youth might be fleeting but immaturity is eternal.

>>52693507
How would that even work? Do transportors give you a mild lobotomy or something?

Did he ever give some explanation for why or how humanity ended up like that?

>>52695924

No, because explaining how utopia happened would most likely show that it is in fact a dystopia, since someone would have to be stepped on to make it happen.

>>52695400
>Berman was barely involved in DS9,

Yeah, but the writers' room was still constrained by "Rick's Box" whether he was in the room or not, knucklehead.

After they sent Roddenberry packing and the old douche finally died, Trek writers were STILL referring to "Gene's Box". They self censored as if they had to run their ideas past his cringe-worthy utopian dipshittery and that was because guys like Berman and Piller were STILL enforcing the "group think" long after a few grams of Roddenberry's ashes had been launched into decaying orbit.

Piller even writes in "FadeIn" about how some of the newer writers who had never met Roddenberry referring to the "box" as "Mike's Box" because Piller was the one shooting down their ideas for not fitting into the "Trek" vision.

You don't need to be physically present and staring over a writer's shoulder to influence what ideas they think they can pitch and what kinds of scripts they think they can sell.. All you need to do is "train" them well enough to know what and what not you're going to approve.

>>52694361
>not liking the Luna class
>making no explanation, only meme

Maximum edgelord

>>52695166
Also "The Siege of AR-558" and "It's Only a Paper Moon". As an Army veteran with PTSD, for being episodes of ST, they handled Nog's issues very well. Yeah, Ezri didn't do the best job, but I would use this episode as something to point to show people that don't know what dealing with PTSD can be like and handled. Episodes like those would NEVER have been possible under "Gene's Box".

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>>52698060
You like Luna class?
Have a rare Mirror Luna.

>>52698076
"Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people – as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts... deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers... put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time... and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces, look at their eyes..." That would also never have been said in Gene's Trek.

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>>52698094
And from another angle.

>>52698097
In the Pale Moonlight, can't imagine Roddenberry approving of what is probably one of if not the best Star Trek episode.

>>52698076
>Also "The Siege of AR-558" and "It's Only a Paper Moon".

The PTSD angle was handled well. The ground "combat" shown in "Siege" was absolutely infuriating however.

A group of drunken weekend paintball clowns would have used better "tactics" and an average infantry platoon from ~1760 on would have gone through both the Feds and the Warthogs like shit through a goose - sci-fi pews-pews or no sci-fi pews-pews.

>>52698094
>>52698101

Love it. Got one on one of my ENG characters in STO for shits and giggles. It's... surprisingly maneuverable. I thank the Akira heritage in the design for that.

>>52698126
That quote was actually from "The Siege of AR-558", but otherwise agree with the your opinion.

>>52698135
>The PTSD angle was handled well. The ground "combat" shown in "Siege" was absolutely infuriating however.

I like to think of that as intentional. That despite the "military" training of Starfleet Officers, they really aren't at all that great at tactics or actual on the ground fighting. This would make sense in universe IMO. They aren't an infantry unit and it shows.

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>>52698146
Want some more pics?
I took a bunch of these back in the days when i realized that by having a ship that had the MU hull materials on it made MU ships passive towards you, at least in sector space encounters.
Nowadays it doesn't work anymore, or i don't know, maybe with the newer hull mats.
Haven't tried because i don't own a single "modern" MU ship.

>>52698200
>They aren't an infantry unit and it shows.

Ahh, the old and pathetic "We're not really a military" excuse.

What's your excuse for the Warthogs then? Aren't they genetically engineered to fight? But they somehow fight as poorly as the "We're really not a military" Fed assclowns?

The laughable "tactics" in the episode wasn't intentional. It was because the writers and production staff never served in the military.

They could show PTSD realistically because they're all familiar with pyschotherapy. They couldn't show ground combat realistically because they never served.

>>52698274
>What's your excuse for the Warthogs then? Aren't they genetically engineered to fight? But they somehow fight as poorly as the "We're really not a military" Fed assclowns?

For that, I attribute a shitty Vorta in charge. We've already seen in "Rocks and Shoals" that Jem'Hadar will follow tactically unsound orders, and even are aware of it, all for the sake of the order of things.

>>52698274
Starfleet has Marines that are supposed to take care of ground combat. In "Siege of AR-558" I think they're all Starfleet Security and Defiant crew. Most of their combat experience comes from small firefights and shipboard defence. Securing and fortifying a position ain't their jam. They technically know how to do it but they have no practice with it.

It'd be like getting the coast guard to plan D-Day.

>>52698366
>For that, I attribute a shitty Vorta in charge.

More excuses.

>We've already seen in "Rocks and Shoals"

The Warthogs in that situation have run out of crack and the Vorta knows they'll run amok soon. They've also lost their leaders and know they can't be rescue in time. The head Warthog basically tells Sisko they know the orders are suicide but they're following them anyway because they've chosen to die.

Occam's Razor time: Have the Warthogs on AR-588 run out of crack too? Have their Vorta also come to fear them? Have they also decided on suicide? Or is the writers' lack of military experience shining through AGAIN?

>>52698429

That doesn't explain why the Warthogs on AR-588 are fighting like idiots too.

The Warthogs are genetically engineered and drugged to fight. As combat monsters "only" facing red shirts and the Defiant's crew, they should have stomped them flat. Yet they fought just as stupidly as the Fed's B-team.

Got anymore excuses or will you admit the writers own lack experience explains the laughable "tactics" used by both sides.

>It'd be like getting the coast guard to plan D-Day.

The USCG was present and fought on D-Day. Try again.

>>52698126
Agreed, and I don't even think Gene's utopian ideals are stupid; I just thought it was a fucking beautifully acted and well-written episode.

>>52698526
The Jem'Hadar are disposable. The Dominion gives less than a flying fuck about them and will happily order them to engage in a suicide attack if they feel it's the most expedient way to victory. Even the ones that prove themselves in combat can and will be sacrificed at a moment's notice.

> will you admit the writers own lack experience explains the laughable "tactics" used by both sides.

Where's the fun in that?

>>52698621
>The Dominion gives less than a flying fuck about them and will happily order them to engage in a suicide attack if they feel it's the most expedient way to victory

So they conquered an entire quadrant by zerg rushes? They needn't worry about tactics because of all the cannon fodder they have?

Pull the other leg.

>>52698684
>So they conquered an entire quadrant by zerg rushes? They needn't worry about tactics because of all the cannon fodder they have?

Yes? That's basically what they do once Vorta "diplomacy" fails. Either you get in line or they dog-pile Jem'Hadar on your civilisation until it's nothing but a shadow.

The Vorta and the Founders take care of where is deemed a priority target, the Jem'Hadar take it over or die to the last man. Simple as.

>>52698684
Not him, but they rammed a retreating Galaxy Class, losing all hands. Their whole deal is weight of numbers, ferocity, and a few technological gimmicks.

Also, why do you seem to be so intent on shitting on the show? Why are you in /stg/ if you hate trek so much? Why the fuck do you need to roll out your little "REEEEEEE IT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH MY EBIN TOM CLANCY BOOKS!!1!11!" autistic shitfit every time anyone mentions combat in Trek?

This is a show with matter-energy conversion that never gets used for anything other than making food and going places.
This is a show set in the 24th century where the closest thing to transhumanism is a 300-year-old boogeyman.
This is a show any and all scientific phenomena can be explained (or solved) by "a lot of [science] particles".
This is a show with space dinosaurs and their fucking city-sized ships.
And you're mad about the military tactics?

>>52698684
>mass produced soldiers
>mass produced ships
>Kamikaze attacks are acceptable, even in non critical engagements
>Jem'Hadar are executed at the first sign of insubordination
>Jem'Hadar are taught that "victory is life", meaning defeat brings death either by the enemy's hands or the dominion's
>Jem'Hadar are addicted to a drug to ensure they would die without the oversight of the Dominion

>>52698481
>More excuses.

It's almost like that's what we do in these threads or something.

Hell, if you want to set out the rules and structures of a Starfleet Marine corps, feel free. Could be an interesting project. But enough of this incessant "Starfleet is a military and only a military" shit you pull every second thread, savvy?

>>52693477
>rescued his long-lost daughter
>hijacked a BoP and fucked shit up
>became magic space antiChrist

He did everything right.

>>52699601
Dukat towards the end was the thing I felt they didn't do well in DS9. Which is unfortunate because everything else was pretty damn good.

>>52699739
The most fitting end to Dukat's arc would've been committing suicide, either when the Dominion lost DS9 or at the end of Waltz. A broken man who lived only for himself, reduced to absolutely nothing, everything taken away from him through his own hubris, with the only beneficial thing he's ever done being to remove himself.

>No one talks about how Damar, hero of the rebellion, died like a chump.

>>52700011
I kind of thought that was the point. He was always more of a symbol than a practical leader. His death is over in a second, but the charge it produces is meaningful.

>>52700011
Heroes never die, anon.

>>52699843
Agreed. Everything after waltz just felt forced.

>>52699601
>He did everything right.

He did the one thing a good fascist never should and put his faith in a book.

>>52701170
"Dukat makes a personal call to Kira for the sole purpose of telling her he fucked her mom" was an excellent moment, but it would've been much better had that episode aired sometime in the back half of season 5.

"Dukat becomes a televangelist so he can fuck more Bajorans" is likewise a solid enough idea on its own, they just had zero good ideas after that.

>>52701165
the hole in his chest would beg to differ

>>52698101
>>52698094
How do you even get the mirror skins?

>>52703817
Get a mirror ship.

>>52698808
REEEEEE Jem-hurdur are geneitcall enjinuured to be tacticul opraters oprating tacticoollly REEEEE

>>52703817
Mirror ships. There's about 6 different models, I think. You can get them out of random drops from Infinity lock-boxes.

The easiest (and cheapest) way to get one is to just buy it off of the exchange. Last time I checked, most of the mirror ships were going for 3.5 million energy credits, which you could drum up fairly quickly with some farming/selling valuable equipment on the exchange.

>>52663880
Worf is Woolie?

>>52703921
They're basically buff pcp-addicts

>>52705360
I understand that, but I was having a giggle imitating "more excuses" anon.

>>52705360
>>52706735
You know I always wondered if there were other ketracel colors.

>>52707145
>Ketracel Blue, for the working Jem'Hadar

Somehow I doubt it, unless Ketracel is the identifier that the Dominion prescribes to each of it's loyalty enhancing narcotics.

>>52708442
If it's a chemistry term in specific, another color might be a precursor chemical to white.

>>52708485
>>52708442
It may also refer to a level of purity. So the Jem'Hadar get the high end stuff, but other Dominion races might have access to Ketracel red or whatever as a display of the Dominion's "trust".

>>52692516
>>52692542
>>52692585
Is there any official word on Borg after Voyager ? Did they survive?

>>52708627
The way I figure it, one way or another, they did.

The Novels, as well as some games have them surviving and continuing to fuck with Star-fleet for years to come. So there's that.

But even if we disregard all of that, they're still around. Lets say that Janeway's little temporal hiccup worked like a charm and the entirety of the Borg collective went the way of the dodo. Vast swathes of space are now empty, ripe for plundering.

But if there are any uninfected drones, laying dormant in a crashed ship or a derelict trapezoid, then eventually some numbnuts salvager is going to come along and get himself assimilated. We saw in Enterprise that 2 drones could, in very short order, create a dangerous vessel and pose a serious threat of creating a new micro-collective.

That's what I like to think the Borg are, post Voyager. A galaxy-wide pox that routinely show up and need to be taken care of by local powers before they can completely overrun a sector.

Does anyone know anything about the state of Cardassia post-DS9? I've consulted Memory Alpha and that's pretty silent on the matter.

>>52709131
I'd recommend reading "A Stitch in Time" by Andrew Robinson, the actor that played Garak. It deals a lot with the state of Cardassia after the fall.

As for their international presence, they've been totally de-fanged, at least in the short term. The Military reduced to a cursory defence force, much of their autonomy given over to the Federation and her allies.

I see that ending 1 of 2 ways. Either Cardassia eventually ends up becoming yet another Federation state or a fresh wave of ultra-nationalism eventually leads them back down the war-path against the Federation. I think there's a fairly decent argument for either outcome, given what we know of Cardassian pride.

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>>52709131
Easiest, and most ironic, comparison is to Bajor right after the occupation. Mostly left in tatters, not much as far as military power to speak of, government in shambles, etc.

>>52709211
In Star Trek: Bridge Commander, at least one Cardassian house chooses the latter option, with the results being a truly hilarious amount of wrecked Galors and Keldons strewn about the sector.

>>52709131
Occupation by the victorious parties. Government is being led by a pro-democracy party with the main opposition being various hardline nationalist parties. A few old military officers kick up shit before being put down, usually in the games. True Way is still a thing, doing sneaky terrorist business like in that one episode of DS9. In STO the True Way is the primary Cardassian antagonist, where they've been infiltrated by changelings belonging to an Alpha Quadrant Link, and end up forging an alliance with the Terran Empire, but STO's Cardassian-based stories feel like they just pick things out of a hat and go with that regardless of how much it makes sense.

>>52709231
Ahh, to be in such times again, when Galor kills rained from the sky like candy.

>>52709231
I was a bit disappointed when it didn't all turn out to be a massive ruse by the Tal Shiar to fuck everybody else over.

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>>52708744

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>>52695834
>yfw There's actually barely any young people on 4chan. It's mostly 25-35 year olds and probably skews older more than younger.

>>52710381
There are a ton of underage fags too but they mostly stick to /b/ /v/ and /soc/.

>>52698207

Last time I saw mirror vessels was the Obisek themed event when dozens try to zerg rush the reman station. They were fairly shoot-on-sight then.

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>TFW you see pic >>52692262 and think pic related
I think I have been on 4chan too long.

>>52714915
why are there so many washed-out pictures of cardassian ships

>>52715027
My guess is editor-anon got a Galor and he's taking it for a spin.

>>52715424
Yeah, I'm on a bit of a Cardassian kick at the moment.

>>52695972
It's a typical Greatest Generation reaction to WWII , a bunch of blinkered social utopian/communistic fantasy that insists that humanity can be something it fundamentally is not. I hateplay STO in such a fashion that all my characters are specifically designed to shit on Roddenberry's vision.

>>52716178
But are you doing it properly?
T: guy cosplaying in STO as his own Mirror version.

I've just re-watched a voyager episode, "Nothing Human", S5E8.

In it, Be'Lanna is accosted by some tape-worm-looking motherfucker and all the Starfleet training in the world can't help the crew save her.

So the doctor turns to the research of a Cardassian medical scientist, which he forms into an interactive hologram, who later turns out to be (surprise surprise) a war criminal responsible for numerous experiments on living Bajoran patients. (intentionally exposing healthy subjects to chemicals and viral agents, blinding and otherwise impairing patients to see how they adapt, etc.)

This, naturally, sends the maquis elements of the crew on a total shitfit. They demand that the holographic program be erased, along with all of his research.

Paris and the Doctor come down on the side that thinks that using his research to save a life is ultimately good. Whereas many of the other senior staff claim that using the research would somehow validate the methods of this Cardassian.

To me, there is only 1 right answer. The research, albeit produced by a monster, has the capacity to do good and disregarding it would be ridiculous. The information exists. The information can be used to save lives. It's origins have no bearing. If that were the case, much of our own early medical breakthroughs would be rendered "immoral".

At least, that's my thoughts on the matter. Would any of you disagree with that assessment?

>>52717357

I mean, if anything, using the information to save the life of a Maquis would be a giant "fuck you" to the Cardassians.

>>52717357
You know we use Mengele's and Unit 731's research?

>>52717516
I had some notion that some of his research from Auschwitz had been used but I wasn't sure. As we all know, making unsubstantiated claims can get you in hot shit in online debates.

At any rate, and this applies to >>52717469's comment as well, it seems like taking an act of unspeakable evil and using it to do good is a praiseworthy and noble act. It's the only way for any good to come of the suffering that those people endured.

In many ways I think it's more repugnant to destroy the research. You essentially render all that suffering completely meaningless. At least if it's used to help others it can provide some sort of benefit.

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>>52717357
I think the whole moral high ground of "X research was done unethically, so we should destroy it" is utterly idiotic.
After all, if we did that we would have had starved to death by now.
How?

Gentlemen, let me introduce you to Fritz Haber.
Who was he?
He was a German scientist who lived in the early 20th century and created the Haber-Bosch process, which is a method with which we create Ammonia.
Why is this important? Because Ammonia is the main part of fertilizers, without this method, we couldn't produce any fertilizers and without them, we would have ran out of farm land a long time ago.


So, why aren't we singing praise to him?
Because this process was created as a by-product of his main invention, mustard gas.

Fritz Haber was a staunch nationalist, wishing for the victory in the great war for his homeland and did everything he could to make victory for German empire a possibility.
He created the battle gasses which created tons of suffering and death in the battlefields of the great war.

tl:dr You can be a human monster and invent the worst way to die ever, but if it yields something useful, then you should use it and not starve while having this smug feel of moral superiority about you.

>>52717357
The hologram they made was as sapient and sentient as the Doctor and was composed of the information they had from public records in the ships database. He was not actually Cardie-Mengele, he just looked and sounded like him.

And given that he was a sentient, sapient A.I. it should have counted as murder when they deleted him at the end of the episode for the sake of muh feelz.

Also what this anon said.
>>52717583

>>52717908
Also doesn't help that if memory serves, he was a pretty chill Cardassian too.

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>>52717719
Nailed it.

Incidentally relevant AC quote:

Some civilian workers got in among the research patients today and
became so hysterical I felt compelled to have them nerve stapled.
The consequence, of course, will be another public relations nightmare,
but I was severely shaken by the extent of their revulsion towards a
project so vital to our survival.

—CEO Nwabudike Morgan,
The Personal Diaries

>>52717976
Yeah, he was an amicable fellow. The actions of the real Crell Moset were undeniably reprehensible. But they were certainly in line with how the Cardassians view personal morality.

The Cardassians, through literature and public policy, espouse the state and the family as the 2 most important elements of their culture. Personal sacrifice is expected in the service of either. It's a philosophy that focuses on the greater good rather than individual welfare. That's just how their brains are hardwired. People that get caught in dereliction of either the state or their family are severely punished.

So it likely never occurred to Moset that the Bajorans he was experimenting on would never have agreed to be infected with the virus. To the Cardassians, the concept that a community would put the good of individuals before the whole is totally alien.

To Moset, killing thousands to potentially save millions poses no moral dilemma. It's pretty fucked up, and it's that mindset that meant Cardassia and Bajor could never find peace together, but that's how the Cardassians think.

>>52718156
>tfw the Dominion War was really just bombing commies

>>52718309
It was an alliance of Moralist Commies, Imperialist Commies and later Duplicitous Commies against Expansionist Commies, Industrious Commies and later Anti-Identity Commies, while a capitalist, war profiteering nation was being consumed by Feminism on the side.

>>52718450
It's just like they say: The good guys always win in the end.

>/stg/ has a better grasp of morality than half of Star Trek

Interesting times, indeed.

>>52718798
>/stg/ tirelessly proclaims it knows best about a fictional universe written for syndicated tv

Nothing's changed at all.

>>52719037
But we do

>>52715027
Though, you know, there probably WOULD be a lot of artwork featuring Galors and Keldors in Cardassian modern-day (you know what I mean here) artwork, given their whole 'glory of the state' cultural expectations and the Galors/Keldors being a tangible symbol of the might of the Cardassian military.

Think an American Air Force base with all those pictures/paintings of fighter jets, only all Cardassian military branches and just two ships to choose from.

>>52717357
There's an argument to be made for not benefiting from bad things so as to avoid endorsing and being tempted to replicate or allow them.

As an example for endorsement, being best bros with a murderer would often be considered uncool to the victim and anyone who sympathizes with them. You could argue that there's no functionality to passing up a productive friendship because something bad happened elsewhere, but it's still going to piss certain people off and imply on some level that you're cool with it.

The obvious example for slipping in the future would be drug enforcement in the US, where the ability to seize and utilize illegally obtained funds resulted in nigh-universal corruption. It became infinitely more profitable to farm and collude with the drug trade than to actually suppress it, so that's what happened. It's similarly easy to suppose that if you make a habit of using thoroughly unethical research, it becomes easy to let things slide and maybe not worry about them so much, because hey, if it turns out anything went wrong you'll punish them and really that field sounds pretty interesting.

As another sub-example from this very thread, "we can only eat because some asshole tried to get better at exterminating us" is a good argument for letting people research how to exterminate us.


That said, as a general rule any opinion the Federation has on technology is pretty much the most retarded stance you could possibly take. I can only assume they're the dominant power in their neighborhood because all the cool civs ascend beyond mortal concerns or destroy themselves in their own hubris before they can become an issue.

Isn't one of the problems with, say, Mengele, the guy that Crell was based on, that Mengele was the most unscientific motherfucker ever?

>>52720861
The MOAB in Afghanistan blew up some old CIA drug running tunnels, so I think we're seeing a more moral policy IRL.

>>52721710
This is more or less true of all the shit done in the death camps and the shit done by the Japs to PoWs.

But why let facts get in the way of the common beliefs held by the ignorant masses.

>>52721710
>>52722125

That's insubstantial to the argument at hand, though I'm unsure weather any of the "experiments" done by the Axis ever provided any sort of useful scientific data.

The point is that Crell's work did provide valuable information and was eminently useful at that point in time. Choosing not to use it seems like a bizarre choice.

>>52722545
Particularly given that the rest of the Federation has said research in their archives and has said nothing about it being verboten.

>>52722545
Considering how often they kept trying to get Borg tech and used 7's Borg knowledge to their advantage it can be put down to regular Voyager hypocrisy.

Pretty sure the Collective caused more suffering than Crell.

>>52722545
You know what the best part is? Janeway realises that Paris and the Doc are right and makes the correct decision. It's mostly Chakotay that objects.

>>52722545
A fair point, but since Trek is trying to moralize, it's hard to accept the argument that Trek is making when yes, Crell's experiments were conducted in a scientific manner that yielded useful data that saved lives, but in the real world the opposite isn't true. I can't argue or deny that in this case in this fictional universe that Crell's immorally conducted research yielded life-saving results that led to some good (Voyager would be fucked without Belana, even if she needed a tricorder to tell her that shit was shit).

But it's harder to accept that moral when, you know, Mengele was just a twisted fuck whose work is about as scientific and useful as some kid keeping a journal of how long it took the flies to die after he tore their wings off or how long he estimated it took an ant to burn to death.

>>52722933
One of her better moments, actually.

>>52722632
The rest of the Federation isn't half Maquis.

>>52698274
>They couldn't show ground combat realistically because they never served.

...they couldn't show it realistically because it's hella expensive and they had a budget to stick to.

The same reason crowd scenes are about 20 people or a matte. The same reason sound effects often mark the use of an energy weapon just off-screen when having it on-screen might be slightly more cinematic.

TV costs money. Even just having a second level to the Siege set to allow the Feds a better line on the advancing enemy would have cost a fortune and caused all kinds of problems with character positioning, which is a real problem when you've got a very limited number of cast members to work with.

>>52713020
It's far too late now, anon.

>>52725535
I was just glad to see MACOs on Enterprise acting at least a little bit operator.

>>52725967
They didn't seem to do much better than the average security officers. Like they still routinely got their asses handed to them by alien boarding parties.

>>52725995
Yeah, but at least there were a few times when they beat the shit out of aliens with those taser batons. That was fun to see.

>>52726009
I also quite liked the rivalry between the MACOs and Reed's security team.

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Reminder that Captain Maxwell's actions were completely vindicated.

Get fucked Cardassians

>>52726911
>not informing Starfleet
>not spearheading a task force to covertly sabotage Cardassian operations
>not rubbing their faces in it with a big shit-eating grin when they know you have them caught

3/10, this stratagem is not Jellico approved.

>>52726938
>Implying Starfleet wouldn't ignore the Cardassian actions like they were also doing with the Romulans and like Starfleet did immediately at the end of the episode.

I love the federation but they are really too eager to trust and forgive other races

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>>52727051
Federation sure as hell doesn't trust the Cardassians, they'd just prefer a peaceful solution whenever possible. Maxwell killed a bunch of people unnecessarily and sparked a chain of events that could've led to another war. But Starfleet isn't actually stupid. Like Picard said, they know damn well that a "scientific research station" in a militarily strategic location is a load of bullshit and keep their eye on the Cardies. And as Chain of Command showed, they're more than willing to put their foot down and let someone like Jellico take over when the situation calls for it. They'd just prefer exhausting all possible non-violent solutions first, because that's better for all parties in the long run.

MINSK

>>52727624
WOLF 359

>>52730476
Were you using a shitload of borg upgrades or was your ship being assimilated?

>>52730565
Damage pattern from the Klingon disruptors came out weird for some reason. I mean, I did have Borg engines on, but not visible.

>>52730583
everything is borg upgrades in STO

even your crew

how can the alpha quadrant even compete

>>52732092
Thelaron weapons. I'd like to see those Borg fucks adapt to their flesh melting.

>>52732139
presumably the same way they can adapt to their flesh vaporizing?

>>52732351
They didn't though. The lot of em fuckin died, bar the queen, who was more or less inert.

>>52732490
meant a phaser, but that's fair.

>>52734002
She seems a little... chunky

>>52734641
She'll keep you warm in the cold of space. Real starships have curves.

>>52734002
>>52734641
>curves in the secondary hull to fit the wide, galaxy-style(?) deflector
>curves at the back of the secondary hull to fit a perfect s-shape
>nacelle fins that look functional rather than the go-faster fins on the Nova
>nacelle trip in general
I normally hate the Excelsior class with a passion, but this is an absolute beauty.

>>52735637
The bad part about the Enterprise-B for the movie is that it ruined one of Excelsior models completely as the glue used to add those curves to the hull destroyed the underlaying plastic on the model, so after they had applied the Ent B modifications they could not take them off and reuse the ship as regular Excelsior. And guess who was the jackass that gave the order to make the Ent B look different from other Excelsior.

>>52736283
At least they reused her for the Lakota.

>>52736283
Honestly not even mad, it makes perfect sense in-universe for the excelsiors to undergo a refit just like the Connies did. It is a shame about the model itself, though, but by then they were using CG instead of physical.

>>52736443
This was before CGI models started to be thing. DS9 and Voyager used alot of physical models in their earlier seasons. Voyager managed to dodge it as there wasn't much of need for other Starfleet ships. But for DS9 it meant they had more limited selection of ships they could use.

>>52734641
All the more to love

>>52710075
You. I like you.

So what's STO's mission maker like?

Favourite Starship?

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>>52739016

>>52739016
I got three.
Sovereign, Excelssior and Constitution (TOS version).

>>52738733
Dunno, haven't tried making anything with it.
The stuff made on it though varies in quality, some have made some pretty neat stuff while others have made either cringy stuff or missions where you farm vendor trash.

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>>52739047

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>>52739016
The Akira stands out as a classy workhorse among the non-protag ships.

Shame about the continuity-overriding boners it gave the ENT execs, though.

>>52739368
Hey, turn those nacelle struts into a ring and you'd have a great Klingo-Romu-Federation joint construction venture. The best part being that they'd be too busy arguing over crew ratios to ever launch the chunky beast.

>>52739382
Eh, the NX was a LOT sexier than the Akira, desu - the raised struts make more sense, at least, and akiras are always going to be subject to the torpedo meme.

>>52739016
Nebula and Luna

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>>52739535
A pale shadow of the original waifu.

>>52739016
Excelsior, Luna, Sovereign
Danube if it counts.

>>52739831
>danube
It'd be comfy as fuck to go adventuring about in, but for pure sex value the Flyer's still by far the best small craft there is.

>>52739535
>the torpedo meme
You're referring to >eight launchers, right?

>>52740147
Yep.

>>52739414
I swear to god, if this ends up with fucking Voth-tier ships...

>>52739925
It's an upside down maxipad complete with adjustable wings.

>>52739831
Danube always counts

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Thinking of small craft I have an idea for a modernised Archer class. No idea if it's worth posting though since I don't have an image.

But the little thing here is quite nice. Still just a miniature star ship but about 4x the size of a Runabout and far less of a brick with engines look.

>>52739535
>Eh, the NX was a LOT sexier than the Akira, desu

DELETE THIS

>>52740377
If/when I run a game, I plan to shove the PCs in a retrofitted Archer that's...capable in the 25th Century although, clearly, not going to be strong enough to take down any major enemies.

>>52741114
Transphasic torpedoes and a full sized launcher should still brequite a potent threat.

>>52741493
Such a vessel could only carry a small compliment of torpedoes. You would have to be very deliberate and very accurate with each shot.

>>52741114
The Archer of the 23rd century is basically a runabout. So either you're making a 30 man corvette, or else it's comparable to a Danube.

>>52741114
>>52741534
Honestly, there's a really big gap between runabouts and the likes of the Nova or the Sabre, for small cosy comfymobiles in space that are still capable enough to not pop instantly. Something like the Raven, albeit not entirely crewed by smug nerds.

>>52741755
There's the Oberth. If memory serves she was a fairly small ship.

>>52741755
Keep the Swedish blondes, just don't put them in command.

>>52741790
>oberth
>tiny science vessel
It's going to be entirely crewed by smug nerds.

>>52741820
Just pack on an angry Celt engineer and an acerbic doctor to balance them out.

>>52741755
The Hansens weren't Starfleet. The Federation council provided them with a ship to study the Borg for... reasons, I guess. Starfleet were apparently non-plussed with the whole situation, what with having to provide them with a ship.

>>52739600
The version on Memory Beta is pretty garbage, but oh my GOD, that is a good looking superMiranda.

>>52741755
A Maquis Raider? They were Starfleet ships at some point, after all.

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>>52741493
True. I'd limit access to the fancy toys if they're tooling around in a retrofitted junker.
>>52741534
Fair. I mean, essentially, I'd be substituting it for a Danube just for the aesthetic. If you're running less-affluent traders/explorers that aren't officially Starfleet, something with character suits them better.

>>52744630
For traders you also have more cargo space and more powerful engines for towing compared to a Danube.

>>52744630
A restored B'rel from the junk heap, perhaps?

>>52739016
Intrepid. Fight me.

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>>52693253
>Hurr divegrass

You try running at full speed and have someone kick you in the ankles and tell me that 1, it wouldn't hurt and 2, you wouldn't go down.

Yes footballers play it up a lot, and I'm not pretending its a proper contact sport like Rugby but it's hardly tiptoe round the tulips.

HELP /STG/!

I've never watched ST outside of maybe a few episodes here and there, and my group is now starting a ST game. I have absolutely no idea what to expect (outside of memes ala Redshirts Die) or how to go about playing in such a setting. Can someone give me a crash course on ST, something that gives me a ground level understanding. Bonus points if you can explain how medicine and such works in ST, as chances are I'll be playing Chief Medical Officer (was gonna security but that's already scooped up)

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>>52751449
Post scarcity society, so nobody works for money in the Starfleet, rather the persuit of knowledge basically.

Replicators can reproduce most things. A form of currency called Gold Pressed Latinum is the only thing that they can't make, and it's used by non federation societies such as the Ferengi.

Medicine works on the tried and tested technobabble logic.

>This crewman is unconcious due to an alien pathogen, so I'm going to attempt to invert the output of a bioscanner to try and stimulate their prefrontal cortex which might drive the organism out"

Klingons = Space barbarian mongal horde obsessed with Honour and Glory
Cardassians = Space hyper authoritarians Obsessed with their home planet and empire
Ferengi = greedy space jews obsessed with material wealth. their guiding creedo are the Rules of Acquisition
Romulans = Hyper xenophobic Space Romans...sort of
Vulcans = Emotionless and obsessed with muh logic
Humans = Us but if we've genuinely well and truly moved beyond prejudice for our fellow man. Racism isn't an issue. Presumably neither is homophobia
Borg = Space zombies who forcibly assimilate species and worlds in order to add to their collective power and knowledge

Those are the main recurring races anyway.

>>52751449
You need to give us more detail as to which era of Star Trek you'll be in. There are differences.

>>52751449
Depends a bit on what era you playing.
But for most part, hypos, medical tricorder, medical beds working on space magic and whenever someone dies while you are operating on them/scanning them, exclaim it in form of "He/she/it's dead, Jim/captains name here.

Oh and when ever someone orders you to do stuff you arent trained for, remember to say "Damn it Jim/captains name here, im a doctor not a (insert profession more fitting for this particular task)".

Follow these rules and you will do fine.

>>52751684
That's ace anon! Thanks for that. Gonna C&P and keep as a cheat sheet for playing.
>medicine works on technobabble
Perfect. That I can do!
>>52751692
Some sort of hodgepodge of a setting, let me see if I can remember some points (most went over me head).
>Borg aren't relevant/involved
>something something between 7 and 8?
>our ship is a defiant(?) class with cloaking tech? (Apparently that's a big no no)
That's all I could really remember off the top of my head
>>52751720
Oh yes, definitely; hamming up the memes (he's dead cap'n, its life Cap but not as we know it, ect) was my plan from the beginning. I read the screencap about Humans being "Team Fuck It Hold My Beer" and thought I'd play a Human Medical Officer who's basically "this is life or death, theres no time to hesitate!" and then proceeds to do things that make Vulcan Medics cringe and have nightmares.

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>>52752108
Check out the Rules of Acquisition. Some of them are fucking great.

>"Treat people in your debt like your family...exploit them"

>"Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack"

>"Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them."

>"Free advice is seldom cheep"

>>52751684
Don't forget:
Bajorans = fractious pushy religious space jews obsessed with their homeland and people in the face of a prior occupation/forced labor camps/casual genocide
Vulcans = Logical yet also mystical space jews with a whole caste of Qaballah-esque soul-handling mystics

There were a lot of space jew influences in ST.

>>52752108
>something something between 7 and 8?
>our ship is a defiant(?) class with cloaking tech? (Apparently that's a big no no)
Okay, so that era of Star Trek has a whole bunch of shit happening back to back and simultaneously, so you really need to ask where exactly in the time frame you're playing in. I'm assuming he means between the 7th and 8th movies, and the reference to a Defiant class means you're playing somewhere near the DS9 area, but between Klingons, Maquis, Dominion, etc. you need an exact time frame.

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>>52739016
Excelsior and B'rel. would love a series set post-movie era when the Excelsior class is the standard explorer, following a crew as they discover new worlds and deal with Klingon peace treaty bullshit.

>>52754314
Wouldn't happen to have one of those for the Intrepid class, would you?

>>52754786
Not at the moment. I'll try and have a few shots for next thread.

>>52754786
No, anon, because he has good taste.

>>52752618
Also, a brief history behind the boat you're flying in:
>Borg have so far tried to invade twice, starfleet was curb stomped but survived thanks to Deus Ex Picard destroying them both times
>Starfleet then began aggressively ramping up ship production, especially the beefier and tougher models
>The Defiant class is the first real warship that the Feds have fielded. It's also one of the smallest, and although it's probably still outdone by the bigger classes, it's a fantastic (if uncomfortable) pocket battleship.
>After the Borg Scare, the Defiant project started to stall, and it ended up being mothballed - the USS Defiant, the prototype of the class and hero ship of ST: Deep Space 9, was the only one in service until the Dominion War was properly underway and Starfleet needed more big guns.
>The cloaking device is a big no-no because it was originally Romulan (and later Klingon) Donut Steel tech, although a few less scrupulous Fed scientists had been trying to recreate it from the moment it was banned by a million treaties.

>>52758133
Addedum: the Defiant was so controversial (both in-universe and with the fans) is because, although most Fed "civilian exploration" ships could already out-gun everyone else's warships, it was the first dedicated, unambiguously shooty starship designed by the "We're Not A Military, Honest!" Starfleet.

>>52751684
There is something called Federation Credits, but it's never made super clear how that works and how it can exist in a society that claims not to have money. My favorite fan theory is that Federation credits are kind of like bitcoin, a digital currency created and tracked by private Federation citizens and not officially backed or endorsed by the Federation government.

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>>52758133
Which reminds me, now in the prime universe with Romulus fucked up and the RSE in disarray, wouldn't now be a good time for the Federation to come in and "revise" the Treaty of Algeron?

>>52758302
Maybe? It's in the alpha quadrant's interest to have a functional RSE because they're the closest power to Borg space and therefore the first line of defense.

>>52758176
>Implying there were any fans that bought the "we're not a military" thing

>>52700041

It could be argued that by dying, he did his greatest service for Cardassia. Had he lived, he would have remained a flawed military man, in whatever new rank or responsibility he found himself. And some would always have sneered behind his back at the drunk, the butcher, the collaborator.

But when he died, he died for Cardassia. He died so Cardassia could claim 'Damar would have wanted...' to force through any reform or change of practice that would have stuck in the throat of any establishment Cardassian. Can you really object to the actions we do in the name of a Martyr to the people and the state?

>>52758302
Regardless of what a handful of retarded flag officers think, the Federation doesn't actually need cloaking tech that badly, so giving it up to secure peace is more beneficial in the long run. In the post-Shinzon and especially post-JJTrek time, keeping treaties stable allows the Feds to play kingmaker in Romulan space, by saying "this is the faction we recognize as the legitimate head of the Romulan people."

>>52758366
This, this this this. The RSE are still the only ones that can reasonably go toe-to-toe with the UFP on a ship level (I remember before we basically said that Klingons and Cardies are more zergrush-y), and from the way the borg are it seems to be evident that they haven't yet assimilated or adapted to cloaking devices yet.

>>52758302
The Treaty of Algeron is now canonically an effort at covering up Transwarp, and tricking the Rommies and Klinks into sinking billions of Klingondollars and Romulanrubles into mixing cloaking tech and warp technology to create their own transwarp systems.

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>>52758493
I was going to shit on this as ACCORDING TO KEIKAKU memery, but the more I think about it the more it works. Hell, it happens straight off the bat in STO (although skewed a little bit by making "bad" Romulans moustache-twirling villains):
>Hobus...happens
>RSE carries on, resistance movement starts to grow
>UFP recognises RomRep as being a thing
>Republic go around being republicy, Tal Shiar go around jacking off to their M'Tara body pillows, but the RSE itself seems to disappear off the radar
>In the two Sela missions, it's said that "real" loyalist Romulan ships are like hen's teeth at this point

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>>52739016
Nigga is there even a question?

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>>52759970
>>52759970
>>52759970
>>52759970

>>52758898
Also just their location. The Romulans (and Gorn) are the deepest into the Beta Quadrant , which is like the buffer between the Alpha and Delta Quadrants. The Federation has dealt with the occasional Borg exploratory mission, but Romulans probably have to deal with that shit much more often.