Modern General

>>52631363
I think this card is decent actually, keeping your opponent off curve and then cycling late game seems pretty good

>>52631483
yeah because mana leak is so good

>>52631560
Mana leak doesn't cycle though?

>>52631610
Yeah and it's also not a shitty overcosted force spike.

But it's ok because it cycles lmao

>>52631652
>implying mana leak isn't shitty overcosted force spike

>>52631695
Mana leak can still be relevant later in the game unlike this :^)

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Good deck when?

>>52631739

>cycling isn't relevant later in the game
;)

>>52631901
This spell isn't very relevant in the early game and it's a cantrip late game

>>52631930
and mana leak isn't very relevant in the early game and it's a dead card late game

>>52631826
When 8th and 9th editions are banned from Modern :^)

>>52631939
Mana leak is relevant for much longer than this card could ever be

>>52631949
>opponent plays 1 mana threat before you can play mana leak
>lose with mana leak still in hand
mana leak is irrelevant the moment it's in your deck

>>52631987
Nice meme :^)

>>52631987
>opponent is on the play
>they play a one drop, then a 2 drop
>lose
Yeah mana leak seems pretty bad

>>52631987
>not playing gemstone caverns and spirit guide for the t0 mana leak

>>52632059
>not playing triple SSG to get around mana leak

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>>52632091

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>>52631363
SHEEEEIT WIZARDS

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Literally a 4 of in every standard deck from now until rotation

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>>52632443
>It could have been Never // Ever
ONE FUCKING JOB WIZARDS

>>52632443

maybe not, they're making spot removal great again. we might get better in the next few sets.

>>52632443
Nah, still shit. Best case scenario you never their 4 cost gideon then return to get the 2/2 the gideon made for 3 more mana total. Saheeli combo laughs are sorcery speed removal as well.

>>52632472

These sets use "to" because one card gets cast after the other. So in this case it's Never //to// Return. the other ones will probably make more sense now.

>>52632472

Rags to Riches
Destined to Lead
Ready to Fight
Cut to Ribbons
Never to Return
.
.
.
.
Never to Ever
??????????

>>52632472
>Never // Ever
>Never to Ever

>>52632498
Saheeli combo only beats sorcery speed at 7 mana, and god help you if you don't have instant speed removal at 7 mana in standard, this card kills Gideon's and Saheeli, it's going to see a shit ton of standard play, GB constrictor will love this

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>>52632443
>planeswalker hate, just in time!

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>>52632530
no one plays pic related right now either. Being able to pay 3 then 4 is a significant upgrade from 3 or 7 all at once, but the biggest problem is still that this card isn't good enough to beat the tier 1 decks and doesn't fit into the tier 1 decks. Maybe after BFZ rotates but not in the current standard environment.

>>52633071
>Maybe after BFZ rotates but not in the current standard environment.
see
>>52632927

>>52633110
yeah you're right I guess, kaladesh and aether revolt will keep standard dogshit long after BFZ is gone.

>>52632443
Its better because it costs U to cycle :^)

Alright boys, I'm buying into the Death's Shadow meme to build Grixis Shadow

>>52633380
How do you play goyfs in grixis?

>>52633380
Please play test my Mardu list first I really like it and lingering souls is better than every blue card in modern right now

>>52633455
Gonna spam that Mardu Shitbrew in every thread bucko?

>>52633509
It's better than Grixis in my opinion, blue provides nothing besides snap, I just don't think it's a good deck. Not a shitbrew btw, I've had success with it. But thanks for your gay opinion

>>52633071
this is a semi-correct assessment of the card

short answer is the card is hot garbage and will see 0 play

long answer is that sorcery speed removal is unplayable in a format where 3 mana "I win the game next turn" walkers, and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar both exist. Against decks that play either one of these cards it is a losing play to waste your whole turn to play a 3 mana removal card when they are just going to keep playing follow-up threats
it does nothing to get tempo into your favor and is more of a speed bump on the enemy decks way to victory than a real path to turning the game around

if it was instant speed it would be a whole different story because then you could kill their walker on their turn and make a strong tempo play on your turn or draw go and make another strong removal play against them securing the game in most cases

wotc once again in the same situation where they find themselves every single time
1 mana is the difference between format defining and unplayable trash
sorcery vs. instant is the difference between "best answer in standard" and worthless
1 power or toughness makes or breaks the card

they really need to stop erring on the side of caution and make a few of these cards format breaking to help shake up stagnant metagames

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I'm still new to magic, so i wanted to ask you guys if with the release of AKH are the Eldrazi cards going drop on price?

>>52633610
unlikely, they see very little standard play right now

>>52633610
Drop from what? Cheap to free?

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Any burn players run this as a one of? It's tempting my dumbass

>>52633628
How many cards do you draw in a normal burn game? Less than 7 and the majority of the time this has no miracle cost

Thoughts on serum visions or surgical extraction to replace G probe in UG infect?

>>52633690
There's no replacement desu

>>52633641
Technically as long as it's not in your opening hand and you made your turn 1 land drop then it's got a miracle cost.

You're basically gambling on not having it in your opening hand so you can dome them for a quarter of their life for 1 mana.

>>52633714
if you want to be technical there's no combination of cards that will ever be played seriously in modern that stops this having a miracle cost. It has one even if you don't draw it as your first card of the turn.

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Guys I need some serious insight. I REALLY want to build affinity, and I already have a lot of pieces, but I need 3 opals.

What are the actual chances of it getting banned? Im feeling like Traverse or Deaths Shadow might eat it instead. Im really nervous about spending that much then biting the ban bullet.

Fuck, what do I do.

>>52633770
0 chance

So I'll switch out 1 searing blaze for thunderous wrath

>>52633628

This card is better in multiples because you want high chance of miracle not low chance of it in opener. Run with lightning axe to discard extras

>>52633628
>>52633714
Tried it. Pitched it.

It is very tempting. On the surface it looks like a better bolt if you can miracle it, and you would be right if it actually worked like that. Burns first couple turns are spent on creatures and sorceries; being very proactive. After that, you're using instants during combat or on your opponents turn. You also usually have enough damage in hand and on board turn 3, so even when you do miracle, it's basically winmore at that point.

I tried one, and it made the difference between winning and losing once out of about 50 games. You can try it out for yourself, but I think you'll come to the same conclusion I did: flex slots are few and far between and you have better proactive or reactive options.

>>52633775
Explain? Insight?

>>52633770
If Mox didn't get banned in winter eldrazi it never will.

>>52633690
The whole point of Guy Probe was to look at the opponents hand for free without losing a card. Neither of those cards accomplish that. Each does half and that's not enough to waste a card on...

>>52633803
Thanks for that anon

>>52633770
Its strictly better than OG moxen and on top of that it only enable degenerate artifact strategies which are hard to interact with.

It will be banned with SSG next ban announcement.

is there a significant loss of consistency if i make a deck 61 cards instead if 60?

>>52634048
yes

>>52634048
There is no reason to ever play 61 cards Jeff Hoogland please go

>>52634048
It's not significant, but why would you?
There is no reason other than "I'm still testing it".

>>52634048
your deck will consistently have too many cards

>>52634048
Yes. Running more cards than an absolute minimum always will.

>>52633989
What kind of person finds enjoyment in memes like this. Every thread I see you autismos posting these ebin memes. You just know they're laughing their ass off like morons

>>52634108
>I have no argument so it's a meme
Heaven forbid anyone would actually want degenerate cards like those banned, it must be le epic maymays xD

>>52634108
To be frank, I really don't see why it shouldn't be banned. It mostly just enables dumb combos and makes affinity that much better.

Affinity doesn't need mox. It does perfectly fine with glimmervoid, spire and spring leaf.

>>52634306
You have no clue what you're talking about. Affinity would die just like infect without opal

>>52633584
Blue also allows Serum Visions and Thought Scour, both of which accelerate your gameplay.
Also, Snapcaster Kolgan's command is too fucking value

>>52634549
I don't think you understand how powerful draw 3 is

>>52634549
Only thing is that you pay that mana to cycle the card, they're better for delve in my opinion yes, but not in a tapout style where you want to get hellbent. In this list getting a reveler out is not a problem. Test the deck I assure you it is. The thing about thought scour and visions is that they both cost mana and replace themselves, we want to empty our hand and be as mana efficient as possible.

Lastly the argument for faithless looting is understandable. But quite frankly it's not really hurting the card advantage all that much. Here are the things that are great to discard: An additional Looting, 1 of 2 Bedlam Revelers, Lingering Souls, unnecessary lands, Manamorphose and Street Wraith get discard for free essentially, and lastly, cards we don't need in the matchup. Faithless looting is never bad in this deck. It turns 4 land hands into keepable ones which can be a problem. It turns 1 land hands into keepable ones. It digs through the deck very efficiently, we're only running 52 cards essentially, so if we need that kill spell or discard spell, we can always seem to find it by running through the deck so quickly. Lastly, my favorite interaction is filtering with Reveler. With Reveler, you get essentially perfect draws if a looting is in the Graveyard, or even if you draw one. 2 Lands off reveler? Loot. Discard spells in topdeck mode? Loot. It turns Reveler into such incredible gas, and I really don't find it that bad. We are taking only the best cards in the matchup and using them. We are only using the most efficient and best spells in WRB, and we only use the ones we need. I would really suggest proxying the deck, it plays much better than you'd expect.

>>52631483
It's a Mana Tithe that costs more for the privilege of cycling.
So it's actually worse as a counter spell, but comes with some utility to "make up for it"

I'll pass.

What Spiders other than Ishkanah do I need for DSJ?

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>>52635279
>Ishkanah
>DSJ

>>52635365
Deadly Spiders Jund, anon.

>>52635279
Seriously just kill yourself you simpleton

>>52635365
This anon >>52635420 is correct. I am looking to build Deadly Spiders Jund.
>>52635501
Woah there friend, that's a lot of hostility. I know just building the top deck in the format is kind of scummy of me but I love Spider tribal and I want to play them competitively.

>>52635720
Is this funny to you?

>>52635815
What? No, I'm looking to build the top deck in the format and I can't find any info about it online for some reason.

>>52635914
(You)

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Where were you when jeskai and Grixis cucked Jund out of midrange?

>>52636510
This isn't good

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>>52636510
I have concerns about this cards playability. As in, I don't think it has any.

>>52636510
When will they print a good Aftermath card?

>>52636571

honestly the only slightly playable card seems to be the 1-drop with prowess and wither to everything, but it's a stretch

garbage set

Hi guys, should I play 4 Overseer or 4 Tempered steel if I dont have any Ravagers and Opals (yet)?

>>52636750

I'd play Overseer. It's weak, but a couple of them can go crazy with a monoU Tezzeret

play lodestone golems

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>>52636750
Play Myr Enforcer!

>>52636656
As foretold will Be a legitimate deck. Turn 3 boardwipe is legit

What are Tron's worst matchups?

>>52637044
restore balance will never become a tier deck as long as black exists

>>52637186
Burn

>>52636656
Cycling lands and Cast Out are both good

If that's all that's playable then it is a weak set though

>>52637186
Infect.
I don't know how Ponza does. I think it gets it's first land destruction out T3, so probably not well when on the draw.

>>52637207
Except for when it's G/B Tron. Collective Brutality is a hell of a card.

>>52637238

It's not that rare to get LD on T2, but yeah, mostly T3

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Just posting again as a friendly reminder that tezzerator with whir of Invention is very powerful and very real.
Get in on this shit now if you've been wanting to.

>>52637347
Fuck off.
I know you're sitting on 60+ of the things hoping for a price spike. I'm not playing into your games.

>>52637266
Hmm fair enough. I've only played eldrazi tron (colorless) and colorless green tron so I haven't seen it running collective brutality

>Modern is the most fun and diverse format
>It's still awful

Maybe magic is just bad.

>>52637372
I'm not doing that friendo. It's just a solid deck now and suits the meta. I've only got enough for my copy of the deck.
I'm not into making chump change on cardboard stocks

>>52637421
Sell out today.

>>52637421
How's it awful anon?

>>52637441

Probably the same thing that's always held magic magic design/funwise

Land.

>>52637471
That makes no sense, but whatever anon, you're entitled to your opinion

>>52637471
Shitter detected

>playing
Blue Moon and Grixis Delver

>building
Ad Naus

>spoilers
Failure to Comply looks neat, but remand is just better I think
Cycling lands are gas
Manglehorn is maybe better than rec sage but probably not
Cast Out for UW control?

>>52637598
>Cast Out for UW control?
UW has D Spere but Cast Out might be better because of instant speed and Abrupt Decay resistance.

I'm going to test it in Martyr Proc. Most of the time you'll just cycle it to dig for land drops, but it gives you 2-4 maindeck outs to Bridges and Moons, which is really nice.

>>52637751
Yeah I think its merit over d sphere is the fact that you can just cycle it if it's dead
There are plenty of decks that d sphere is just atrocious against and the fact that cast out cycles is pretty huge I think

>>52633989
That's not what strictly better means you mongoloid. It's only strictly better if it's better at every stage of the game, and if you have 0 artifacts on the battlefield then it's worse than OG mox.

>>52637886
It's a shitty meme.

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>People ITT still haven't figured out that supression field on the play against DSJ is literally GG
If you can run this in your deck, play 4. You'll thank me later

>>52637347
Stop telling everyone. I haven't bought all my pieces yet.

>>52638575
I only have to attack you once to kill you
Plus, I probably just take that with IoK

>>52633770
Won't be banned. With more Abzan in the format, and UW control gaining ground, Affinity isn't going to have as easy of a time in the transition. Fatal Push, Path, and Stony Silence really tear it apart.

t. Affinity player

Sheoldred as a one of in a mono b devotion.

yes/no/git gud

Been thinking of even trying her out.

>>52638812
mono b devotion is a meme deck so playing meme cards seems fine

>>52638857
What's not a meme deck?

>inb4 DSJ

>>52638874
decks that aren't complete trash like mono b devotion

>>52638812
Isnt mono b devotion just The Gate plus Gary? Sheoldred seems excessive.

>>52638936
Obliterators, Messengers, Gate, Gary, Phyrexian Arena and usuall discard package + removal.

>>52637290
>Turn 2 Stone Rain on the play into turn 3 Acid Moss
I fucking love that deck

>>52637347
Ban bridge desu. Prison decks like this rely on that entirely

>>52639617
>muh combat step
It's an artifact, destroy it if you literally lose to it

>>52639680
running artifact destruction is literally impossible though. You can't just slot it into any deck unlike bullshit cards like bridge.

>>52640021
>Wah I can't fit any cards that interact with artifacts into my main
Well that's what you get for playing creatures. Go play Standard.

>>52640021
>what is Abrupt Decay
>what is Detention Sphere
>what is Oblivion Ring
>what is Wear//Tear

Come on anon.

>>52640054
Aside from Decay, that's a list of cards that aren't maindeckable

>>52640021
>what is sideaboard

Unless you play mono black deck, you always have options for artifact hate.

git gud

>>52640048
>>52640054
>>52640097
>>52640130
Seriously? It's obvious that anon was being facetious

>>52632443
>every aftermath is sorcery speed

But why?

>>52631363
>Mana Tithe with cycle is uncommon

When did Magic die?

>>52640146
I'm glad someone got

>>52634067
>>52634079
>>52634096
>>52634098
>>52634102

What if is mono red 68 cards?

>>52640250
>I was merely pretending

Like clockwork

>>52640299
It was so obvious. You're the retard here
>anon has to spring into action at any chance to belittle someone
Like clockwork

>>52640054
I used to run Anguished Unmaking in the main deck for artifact, enchantment, or planeswalker removal.

>>52640334
>damage control

Keep it up chump

>>52640230
Bad Miscalculation is one of most exciting cards I've seen in blocks.
I love cycling but this game is such trash now.

>>52640661
Then leave you fucking cry baby

>>52640299
>make a joke post mocking retards who complain about cards that have answers
>say things like
>running artifact destruction is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE when it obviously isn't unless you're Mono B
>say things like you can't just slot it into any deck unlike bridge even though you can't slot bridge into any deck and expect success
>HURRRRR PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED HURR
What's it like being this retarded?

I know Poe's law exists but if you couldn't see that the post was joking I question your reading comprehension.

>>52636750
why aren't you playing 4 overseer already

>>52637347
Opal is getting banned this month. Vintage level cards shouldn't be legal in this format.

>>52637421
>modern
>80% aggro/ramp
>most fun and diverse

>>52640891
Cool

>>52640908
>aggro/ramp
t. I don't play modern

>>52640707
>more damage control

Please contain your sperging.

>>52640685
I barely play anymore. I'm just biding my time to sell all of my Modern/Legacy staples and replace them with Chinaman staples for the few decks I want to keep.

Unfortunately there isn't really a point yet because the retards who play this game somehow keep driving the value of my collection up year by year.

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>Drop As Foretold
>Can Ancestral Vision or any other Suspend card for free on the same turn
>Get increased value each turn, basically an Aether Vial for all spells

I feel like this card is worth banning from every format ever.

>>52641202
>you tap out turn 3
>it gets abrupt decayed after you spend 3 mana to draw 3
wow so strong

>>52641283
and Abzan, DSJ, Lantern and Dredge post board

>>52641315
Good point, we should only play with permanents that cost 4 or more.

>>52641202

Certainly not worth banning, best case scenario, it was pay 3 mana and 2 cards to draw 3, then aether vial effect if it lives.

That's barely playable, not bannable

>>52640205

Some of the designs are severely hampered by this unnecessary restriction

Some of the front halves have no reason to be instant anyway

>>52641376
No my point was that we should play permanents that do more besides enable silly meme combos in modern, especially considering this is a faster format and the earliest this is coming down is t3 in decks it belongs in. Also good luck keeping the relevant cards in hand long enough when the best deck plays 8 discard spells. The only way you're getting value outta this is if you live in magical christmasland.

this anon has the right idea >>52641400

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Did you pick up your playset before the spike?

loam spellweaver really paid off

>>52641645
>Spellweaver spike
Is that cause of second sun thing?
If so holy kek lmao

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>>52641645
There's still time

>>52641558
Well yeah, the card is bad because it sucks. Not because it dies to Doom B--Abrupt Decay.

>>52641202
Literally cannot wait to cast free cryptics
It's not too powerful though it won't get banned.

>>52641663
>>52641671

>spellweaver spike

lmfao I meant loams you goofs

>>52641697
Literally can't wait to kill you the turn you drop this cause you're an autist playing a blue deck

>>52641743
You know it's a shit format when blue decks are nonviable.

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>>52641868
>You know it's a perfect format when blue decks are nonviable.
ftfy.

>>52641903
I wish there was a t1 deck like Tron that shits all over aggro but folds to control instead of vice versa.

>>52641903
DESU tron is cancer. I really hate sitting down across from an opponent and within the first two turns knowing whether the match is a win or a loss

>>52641743
You okay dere bud?

>>52641645
Stores were selling the Golgari vs Izzet sets for $15-$20 for nearly two years up. If people didn't get their fucking Grave Trolls, Loams, and middling shit like Isochrons then they have no right to complain.

That being said, the only option to get cheap cards being, "you had to be playing during this period" is fucking horseshit to begin with, but I'm assuming the people here have been playing long enough to know better.

>>52641645
>duel deck loam
>using loam for a shitty meme deck
laughing my ass off to be honest family

>>52642033
There's another option, one with an asian persuasion and righteousness on its side.

>>52642033
>middling shit like Isocron
That's a weird way to spell out 'vintage level' anon.

>>52641946
ask for twin back

>>52642110
For real this was literally twin.

>>52642075
The Stick hasn't been vintage tier since Abrupt Decay was printed.

>>52642124
Twin vs DSJ
Who wins

>>52642125
They should really print a Shunt/Redirect for (R).

>>52642145
They should just make dualcaster Mage legal in modern.

>>52642145
ricochet trap is the closest we've got but not really good in that situation

>>52642138
>Who wins Twin, or Twins worst matchup by far except now with a faster clock
Makes me think

>>52642074
I buy plenty from the Chinaman.

In this case for $80 with free shipping I got a lot of cards I needed like Eternal Witness, Brainstorm (which is still a $2 card fuck you secondary market), Kiln Fiend, Izzet Charm, which ultimately was cheaper than buying them from the Chinaman as getting those cards would've required a custom printing (and they wouldn't look very good) and after shipping it would have been more expensive than just buying the sets outright.

I got two Khan fetchlands in trade for the set of Isochrons.

>>52636635
The White/Black one is going to be mad OP and will turn Abzan into a T0 deck

What's the best deck to tackle a tron-heavy meta? Literally half of my LGS is on some variant of Tron right now.

>>52643460
Burn desu senpai

>>52643460
Fulminator Mage decks:
- Delver
- Living End
- Jund variants

Special mention:
- Burn - Don't play Molten Rain, just play Path for the Wurmcoils

>>52643460
Burn, Bushwacker zoo, affinity, or infect if you're a cuck.

>>52643460
Jund or any type of BGx

>>52636510

Oh boy, here's that "red gets to tap lands" bullshit Maro was talking about weeks ago.

>>52643460
Infect
Stupid combos like Cheerios and Goryo's Vengeance
Esper Control with 2-3 GQs in the main and Thoughtseize/Extraction/Clique in the board

>>52643516
See>>52643507

Although it is worth mentioning that Death Shadow decks do really well vs Tron

So what's the best White artifact/enchantment removal spell? Fragmentize or Disenchant? Or something else

>>52643540
Jund literally beats every deck in the format.

It isn't 2k for nothing lol

>>52643540
>Death's Shadow decks do really well against Tron
Not true at all cuck, Jund is the only one that could be considered somewhat favorable, and even then they can't beat Natural Tron 90% of the time.

>>52643555
Hide and seek

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Sideboarding this in DSJ to combat delver, thoughts?

>>52643602
Seems good

I was going to suggest Skylasher, but then I saw it's just an Insect and not a Spider

I know that if WotC gave DSJ more tribal support it would be totally broken, but it still bugs me sometimes

>>52643555
It's actually Thalia if you think about it. If you want to be really hateful you play Kataki or Tempest of Light.

Disenchant is never what you actually want. Your hate has to be somewhat deck specific rather than just generally hating cards. If your deck is blank to both the artifact and enchantment decks out there, there might be something wrong with your deck.

>>52643555
Context? Really depends on the deck.
Could be anything from Wispmare, Warpriest of Thune, Patrician's Scorn, Aura of Silence, Ray of Revelation, etc.

>>52643651
>Disenchant is never what you actually want.
Disenchant is decent in Snapcaster decks, although Anguished Unmaking or Wear//Tear are usually better if you're in those colors.

>>52643555
Aura of silence and fracturing gust are the best hate/mass removal

>>52637421
>more fun and diverse
Than standard maybe, edh, pauper, legacy and vintage are fun.

>>52643697
EDH is a solved format 2bh.
Pauper is good. It's like a slow legacy, and we're actually able to make use of some of the new cards they've been printing.

>>52640230
3-4 years before I started playing apppearently.

>>52643713
>EDH
>Solved
Yeah solved by whichever autist draws his meme combo faster

>>52643460
death & taxes is what i'd play. aether vial into thalia into revoker bash for 2 into selfless spirit bash for 4 into bash for 6 repeatedly until you die holding up wisp or path is generally how you beat tron.

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>>52643602
>>52643624
Forget Giant Spider, THIS is the one you want. They try and double bolt it? You get an evil shadow version. They push it? Same deal.

Penumbra Spider is DSJ's ultimate tech against delver.

>>52643713
Edh is far from solved, but pauper has a bit more to it than just being legacy lite. 1v1 commander is legacy lite, pauper is like good modern, and edh is the timmy/johnny variety hour.

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In what decks besides Tron i can use pick related?

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>>52643885
whoops forgot my hat

>>52643713
The only reason why EDH players won't admit their format is solved is because none of them are willing to play pin-point one-for-one instant removal to disrupt the combos.

>>52643730
The most important part about Magic that nobody tells you when you start playing is that the most important thing to do is have friends to play with. So if the game shits the bed in some manner (and it will, whether the company or your community) you'll still have enjoyed your time with your friends. Not that you can't make friends at Magic, but to be honest I wouldn't trust more than 10% of those people to pick me up from the airport.

>>52643908
>besides tron
You don't

What is the fastest deck possible? I'm talking sanic fast, consistently killing on turn 3/4.

>>52644161
Grishoalbrand can win on turn 1.

>>52644161
Id say try gifts storm. Really really consistent desu

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>2 storm decks in the top 16 of the scg modern classic
RIP in piece little storm boys ;_;7

>>52644231
Where can I find this list?

>>52644161
bushwhacker zoo with the new Revolt dudes.

>t1 fetch
>shock stompy ground
>exile guide for R
>make GR
>cast hidden herbalist
>trigger, get GG
>cast hidden herbalist
>trigger, get GG
>cast hidden herbalist
>trigger, get GG
>cast burning-tree emissary
>trigger, get RG
>cast reckless bushwhacker
>trigger, +1/+0 and haste
>swing for 14

if you can't pull a turn 2 win off of turn 1 14 damage then i really can't help you senpai

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>>52644326
Got a list famalam?

>>52644326
I've played a ton of Revolt Zoo and hands like this hardly ever happen. However it's still insanely fast most of the time and turn 2 11-14 damage happens semi-often. Hell, just going one drop Herbalist/Burning-Tree into two more one drops will be more than a lot of decks can handle

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R8 my DSJ killer, boyos. Can't be pushed, can't be bolted, blocks death's shadow all day.

>>52644386
How does your deck deal with Pyroclasm?

>>52643929
I started playing because of my friends and play now with a deducated edh playgroup. I dont know how the most popular formats in magic ended up
tanking so hard because I started playing magic when coco got printed and didnt even know what a good set looked like in the flesh until mm17.

>>52644444
But how does it stop DSJ from just waiting you out and killing you with Ishkanah's activated ability?

>>52638575
>decks with turn 1 discard
>having weaknesses

>>52644487
The idea is he would be dead before he could pull that out.

>>52644510
Jund still sneaks some games in, but Esper is pretty resilient to discard, both Draw-Go and 'walker versions.

There's also full blown dredge/loam decks, which don't give two shits about discard.

>pushing the deadly spiders jund meme

I'll admit it was pretty funny once I caught on

>>52644451
I don't plan for Pyroclasm because I hardly see it anymore. But even if I did most of Revolt Zoo's creatures have 3 toughness, the only exceptions are the mana accelerants, Experiment 1, and the Bushwhackers. It's Anger of the Gods that scares me, but by turn 3 even slower hands should have done enough damage to hopefully burn the opponent out

So guys what's a good balance of fastlands and possibly checklands in a Delver list? I've been playing a one-of Sulfur Falls but it comes into play untapped so often I'm thinking about adding another one

>>52644626
Fair enough. Care to share your list?

>>52644444
nice digits, but mirran crusader comes down a turn sooner and also walls goyf

>>52644161
>>52643460
grishoalbrand >>52644190 can pretty comfortably goldfish a turn 3/4 and is basically a free win against rg tron, favored against eldrazi and gw tron, moderately favored against blue tron

>>52644797
Crusader dies to Tarfire, but you're right in that he is generally better against BGx.

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>>52644665
This was the list I ran for a while. Some like to run Simian Spirit Guides for maximum cheese, and some like to drop Kird Ape entirely because it's the worst creature in the deck and it can't be cast off Herbalists.

If I were to make changes I'd prolly drop the Dryad Arbor and a Kird Ape in favor of two more lands. You can mess around a decent amount with Zoo, just keep the core package

>>52644797
How does Grishoalbrand fare against G/B tron, with its main board instant/sorcery discard?

>>52644871
i like the rancor+rampager plan because you've got deathtouchers mainboard

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>>52644963
i feel collective brutality specifically makes it the hardest tron matchup. i think shoal is still favored pre and post board but i would consider bringing in moons against GB in case i need time to recover from discard whereas i generally don't bring in moons against other trons. but desu i have very little experience against GB

>>52637347
Is this deck actually good?

>>52645388
There's a guy from SCG who likes it, but you're still in the worst color of modern.

>>52645464
Colourless is great though.

>>52645481
If you've got Mox Opals and Ravager, or spaghetti and meatballs, yeah.

>>52644231
How fraudulent was that tournament? Faeries tribal and Mono B Zombies tribal are also in the top 8...

>>52644797
Is U Tron even a real deck?
Seems like the worst colour just keeps getting worse.

>>52643460
RG Ponza my boy, the greatest deck in modern.
It's also cheap to make.

>>52634048

Not significantly there won't be. But ask yourself this, if you're playing 61 cards that means that the 61st card is either not as good to be part of the original cut or you're playing an inferior card in the 1-60 list and should have cut one card from it to make room for the 61st

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>>52633770
As it stands right now, there's little chance of it getting banned.

HOWEVER, if a truly broken deck that uses Mox Opal were to appear, Mox Opal would be a prime ban target.

>>52633989
Did your parents beat you with an artifact as a child? Affinity is easy to interact with.

>>52634270
If only there were a card that just absolutely ruined Mox Opal. Sure would be nice if Wizards could print such a thing and then reprint it to make it readily available...

>>52634306
Mox Opal is a critical component of Affinity. It just does too much for the deck that's too unique.

>>52640130

>Unless you play mono black deck, you always have options for artifact hate.

If only Phyrexian Gate and Phyrexian Tribute were Modern legal.

>>52643460

Ad Nauseam or Infect. Storm is also good for Tron heavy meta.

>>52646874

U Tron was a deck that you could play back when there was a Twin heavy meta. It was one of the decks that was good against control and combo decks of sorts. It has trouble against the fast wide decks like Elves and Merfolk but the slower decks like Jund(or Death's Shadow Jund) are about 50/50.

so for DSJ, how many Jace's do I run? also what Jace's exactly? im really excited to build this deck

>>52647019
I seem to recall it being generally inferior and budget compared to RG Tron even when Twin was kicking it.
I assume it's substantially worse in this meta. Do you know if there are any decent UB or UW Tron lists nowadays? Black seems like it's gained the most out of any colour recently.

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>please don't drag politics into my children's card game

sigh

>>52647740
woops, wrong thread. main pic threw me off. I'll delete it when i can.

>>52647756
Delete yourself, crossboarder.

>>52644797
Thanks for checking my digits but I'm mono green.

I actually fucking love mirran crusader though but the only deck I've been seeing with it is death and taxes.

>>52647534
What about... -takes a hit- Bant Gifts Loam Tron.

>>52647534

U Tron was budget though not anymore(Chalice of the Void) but it would beat the matchups that RG Tron was weak to while adversely being weak to the matchups that RG Tron was strong too.

Nowadays aggro is a little beat easier to handle for U Tron thanks to Spatial Contortion which is basically the "colorless lightning strike" for the deck. A few recent things like Filigree Familiar as well have softened its weakness to fast aggro of sorts. U Tron has splashed for Urborg to play a few select UB and B spells in the past but it's not longer needed.

UW Tron is pretty much gifts tron, it's stronger against aggro in relation to U Tron but weaker against others like control and combo.

>>52648001
Alright fuck it I want to brew this and jam the Iona/Elesh/Unburial Rites package alongside a Loam/Academy Ruins/Crucible/Mindslaver one, with maybe a removal one as well.

Can even be a mongoloid and run a set of Gemstone Mines in the manabase courtesy of loam/crucible to splash some black if needed (fatal push? collective brutality? lingering souls?); see me in the streets, fulmimator magi.

>>52648169

>alongside a Loam/Academy Ruins/Crucible/Mindslaver

You don't even need to go that far meme to use Loam.

You just gifts for Academy Ruins/Crucible/Mindslaver/Buried Ruin

>>52648219
So I guess the answer is to just play UW Tron if you want to Gifts?
Loam is probably my favourite non-blue card to cast in all of Magic, I wish it could fit in. How can you possibly lose on turn 15 if your deck has a Life From the Loam in it?

>>52648282

Yeah UW Gifts Tron is generally alright.

But really what it sounds like is that you just want to play something like a Seismic Loam deck or someshit with Splendid Reclamations or something. Like all you wanna do is pitch lands and throw them at their face or something.

>>52631363
All of you are wrong on this. It's a one mana uncounterable cantrip at instant speed that sometimes counters a spell.

Is it anywhere near as good as Sleight or Serum Visions? No, but I'm pretty sure it's still worth playing at least some of the time.

>>52648336
Well I like close, grindy games with myriad decisions/reads to make and no clear correct answers.
Modern Seismic Assault decks have never seemed quite good enough to me unfortunately. I loved Seismic Swans when that was in standard, as well as the old extended Loam deck with Onslaught cycling lands. I guess there is a pretty fair chance that contemporary Loam decks will get a power bump when the new set comes out.

Mox Diamond reprint when..

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Isn't this thing pretty fucking good, huh? Power walkers incoming in this set.

>>52643460
I play storm and I get a semi every time I see a tron land, unless it's eldrazi tron, I usually just shit all over them in my 5 minute turn

>>52649078
It's literally just a mystic speculation.

>>52649078
pretty bad out of ten

>>52649189
a what?

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>>52649078
probably run this if you want that effect

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>>52649240
Wow. I sure got memed hard by you. Have a russian babe.

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Is it playable? Gideon + loxodon smiter in hatebears?

>>52649434
Seems like complete do nothing.

>>52649452
It's a hell of a threat for 3 mana.

>>52649485
Sure it is. It also does nothing on it's own and has shit ability. I'm not saying 5/5 indestructible is bad. What I'm saying is that deathtouch and it's ability is irrelevant and it has a pretty major downside.

>>52649516
Just slap Thrun next to him and he'll always be a creature.

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>>52649591
just slap discard onto your hand and you have a useless piece of shit. Good thing no one plays any discard in modern, or the green god would be completely unplayable.

>>52649658
Not my fault discard is busted. If I had my way I would ban toughtseize and bring back daze and counterspell since there is more hate for counterspells in the format than there is for discard. No, 4 of each Smiter and Wilt-Leaf Liege is not enough.

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>>52649434
I think mono-green stompy wants this as maybe a 2-of. It's laughably easy for stompy to have a 4 power creature on the board by turn 2-3, he's a 5/5 indestructible for 3, deathtouch lets us do dirty things when we slap a Rancor on him (Not to mention all the pump spells the deck runs), and if we're in a grindy game, he has a crappy pump ability we can sink mana into.

Not sure what other decks want this guy but he seems playable.

>>52649658

I don't think it's that they're playing 3 of's. I think some decks are playing 2 and others are playing 4 and it's rounding in between.

>>52649434
This is pretty nice with Goyf desu.

>>52648282

play spellweaver you fucking doofus

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/4c-spellweaver-worldfire/

>>52649771
He definitely seems interesting in that regard. Shame he has only one green mana symbol in his mana cost (for Aspect of Hydra).

>>52644316
Here you go.
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=36&t[T2]=28&start_date=2017-04-09&end_date=2017-04-09&state=MA&city=Worcester&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks

>>52649882
Yeah, his lack of green is a shame, but I feel he makes up for it in raw power. Plus, I'm going to try just dropping my 2 Dungrove Elders for him, as I feel they largely fill the same roll and most of the time I think Rhonas will be better.

>>52649783
Some GBx (not shadow) lists run either a 3/2 split or 3/3 split IoK thoughtsieze, while most decks running fatal push are running either 3 or 2 so it's a bit of both really.

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Maybe playable if U/X control ever comes back?

>>52649983
It's just a worse delve creature desu, U control doesn't want delve creatures. Also Grixis """"""Control""""""" is really just midrange

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dubs and I play this next tournament

>>52643566
>DS Grixis isn't good against Tron

Wew laddy

>>52643602
>>52643888
Just give up, nothing can beat Delver of Secrets

>>52650107
>No mox opal
Shit list desu

>>52650127
DSJ is the formats dedicated spider deck, if it can't stop the one deck with an insect in it what's the point?

>>52650107
Oh shit I forgot a Gemstone Cavern so I can Remand them turn 0 on the draw, that is a major oversight.

Masterpieces being modern legal but not standard legal would fix the format. Prove me wrong.

>>52650331
Dude if you want Counterspell and Force of Will just go ahead and say it.

>>52650351
And strip mine and wasteland iirc. It would be amazing.

>>52649983
Might try this in UW although I wish it had flash or was a flier at least

>>52650415
I think the format you're looking for is legacy, friend.

>>52650485
t. scared Tron player

>>52650415
Good thing that's never happening. Feels good to have magic as it was always intended, with no blue.

>>52650649
>Feels good to have magic as it was always intended, with no blue.

It really does.

>>52642056

I have 1 ivg, 1 ravnica, and 2 MM loams
I was wondering which one to put in front

>>52650607

Why would he be scared if he's a Tron player? He just plays 12 Post and Legacy MUD or Eldrazi instead.

>>52651018
>Those decks
>Good in Legacy
Lel

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viable in tokens? Some infinite combo that sacs tokens to make tokens somewhere?

>>52651110
Gideon went from having a boner for the gods to hating them real fast. Can't say I'm surprised.

>>52651040

Yeah actually those decks are good because they beat the shit out of Miracles so if your meta is like 90% miracles that's the decks you bring. However said decks lose hard to combo decks like Storm and Reanimator if you're on the draw before you can get your Trinisphere and Sphere of Resistances up. Reanimator can just flat out win by a turn 1 Sire of Insanity.

>>52649078
This + the Vizier naga thing that let's you check the top card of your deck is a solid combination that makes me wanna go green for standard. I don't see a strong modern usage.

>>52651110
This plus spawnsire of ulamog + any enter/leaves the battle field trigger = gg
move over deadly spiders, it's time for durdly spawnsire

>>52650708
>>52650649
This
Control players are always the most pretentious faggots. They're always bitching.

>>52651110
Good for BW Tokens i guess
Good with Lingering Souls and Ishkanah

>>52651628
I don't think you guys know how this game was intended to be played.

>>52651110
Would this generate infinite tokens with parallel lives?

>>52651733
Nah replacement effects don't happen multiple times like that. You'd just get 4 times as many tokens instead of 2 times as many.

>>52651701
I'm pretty sure you're supposed to slam creatures and PWs and never think very hard or interact with your opponent outside of permanents. It says so right in the WotC marketing guidelines.

>>52651110

Rev up those Hanweir Garrisons because we're going FULL BLADEHOLD.

>>52651654

BW tokens won't play it. I mean it might show up in the sideboard for long games but that's a very iffy maybe.

>>52651654
This is a little expensive for tokens. 4 mana is when you want to be flashing back your lingering souls in the yard and casting sorin + gideon, or swinging in with shambling vent, not playing a 4 mana spell that does nothing when it comes down. Maybe in grind matches vs Jund or Control, but otherwise no.

Real good synergy with bitterblossom in long games though, might check it out in the sideboard.

>>52651701
Hint: Pure control decks were not intended.

>>52652197
>pure control decks were not intended
>that's why they continued to have a strong presence across formats until Richard Garfield left and WotC were bought by Hasbro who forced them into a new player centric direction

>>52652197
I don't see how raping your hand and board is any less control than "pure control".

Oh right they beat you with a goyf at the same time.

>>52652298
format were never intended at all, just casual play

>>52652351
ebin :^)

>>52651701
Cry more blue baby

>>52651110
Might make Deadly Spiders Abzan viable.

>>52649078
>kiora so irrelevant that they replaced her as the GU walker

wew

With the +2, I'm pretty sure she can even hit her ult, unlike all the Kioras.
does this mean post-origins retconned Garruk can arrive on scene as the mono-green walker?

>>52654546
>tfw I love Kiora
>she's complete shit

Why does wizard hate U/G soo much

;_;

>>52654876
>Why does wizard hate U/G soo much
>U/G
>U
There's your answer.

>>52654876
UG are actually the polar opposites of magic, more so than the other enemy colors. WotC is already incompetent at balancing, so it's no surprise they can't reconcile the two.

>tfw UG is the color of stacking and exploiting counters
>tfw no good way to ramp Gilder Bairn into allow a T4 Master of Depths ult for maximum octopi.