Age of Sigmar or Fantasy?

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>>52623447

Holy Sigmar, this thread is going to attract some shit.

Play both anon, mount your models on square bases and you can play every fantasy game out there. Kings of War, Avatars of War, every edition of Warhammer Fantasy, Age of Smegma, Lion Rampant... etc. etc.

>>52623542
But I only want to choose between Age of Skubmar and Warhammer Fantasy.

>>52623577
It sounds like you already have.

>>52623447
Both are good, but different.

since they share minis there's no reason to not just play both or whichever your local community plays if they only do one.

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>>52623577

Why? There's loads of good fantasy games out there that make lists for Warhammer armies because it had the lions share of the market.

Well I'm a paid up member of the Church of Ansell so I'm going to have to say Warhammer Fantasy.

>>52623591
He's retarded though, Warhammer Fantasy is far better.

You can play the rules bloated Fantasy that requires you on the very least to print out more than 100pages of rules and codices to carry with your games or the Aos which has nicer Models, more players a much lower learning curve and receives balance updates each year with a single required book but also is decided by the coinflip of who goes 2 times in a row first some of the time depending on the choice of your army.

Realistically I dont think people will still be screeching autisticly about the whole mess.Most fantasy fanatics will Try and start AoS while the absolute die-hards will probably kill themselves over having literally no one to play with anymore.

Fun-fact the faggot which burned his fantasy army at the announcement of AoS actually started playing it like 6 months afterwards

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>>52624114

> Autist who burns plastic models because GW no longer support a game...

Yeah I can believe he'd like AoS.

>>52623447
Honestly? depends on what's played locally and which group you think would be better to hang with

>>52624528
This is just between me and a friend of mine who play Warhammer 40k.

>>52623447
something, like your OP picture, is telling me that you're not really asking for advice but just baiting. So get fucked with a ten foot pole.

>>52624570
Ok then. Well, 40k is getting the AoS treatment soon, and AoS is supported, whereas warhammer fantasy is not. The setting is pretty crazy, so it's not for everyone. Warhammer fantasy's setting, while beloved, is pretty standard fantasy.

Warhammer Fantasy's last edition is pretty much how 40k is now: bloated and a messed up meta. AoS has an evolving ruleset, but too simple for some people. However it is deceptively complex.

If you 2 want to try them, warhammer fantasy's rules are in the /whfg/ thread, and aos' rules are free on the GW website. Give them both a shot, i guess. We can't tell you what to play, only give you arguments and recommend you play both and decide.

Age of Sigmar, honestly
I love the fantasy lore
But AoS is fun as fuck

>>52624570

If it's between you and a friend play Warhammer Fantasy 6th edition.

All the rules are in /WFG/.

Spire of Dawn would be a good place to start as it contains square bases.

Age of Sigmar's been pretty fun.

>>52623447
Is it better to shoot your self inthe face or stab yourself instead?

The answer is neither, play a good game instad. There's plenty out there. It's fucking 2017.

>>52624114
source on the burning models guy? need to check that shit out

Age of sigmar is multiple times better than whfb
Plus its a dead game lol

WHFB has the most fleshed out setting but it's just not a fun game

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I liked playing low point whfb games they were really fun and lists didn't get to silly

i gave age of sigmar a whirl with my brets but didn't seem to be a fun game and i ended up losing my brets to weird things like putting them in a box and the box being empty next time i open it.

>>52630989
Shouldn't have mounted them on Schrodinger's Horses.

Fantasy is dead

>>52629944
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plUPJ0inN4c

>>52623447
Age of Sigmar is terrible.

Fantasy is fun, but you will struggle to find opponents.

Play Infinity, Malifaux, Guild Ball or Armada.

>>52632111
>Fantasy
>fun

*shoots purple sun out of my dick*
good game, fellow empire player

>>52628650
Name 5 or one of the following type, rank and file, modern, futuristic, fantasy, space/sea battles or large scale conflict

Age of Sigmar is boring and pretty much the opposite of fun, but so was Fantasy in the end.

Play something else, really.

>>52632249
Games I like in no particular order: Malifaux, Guildball, Warmachine/Hordes, Infinity

There's a bunch out there I cannot comment on though. Take a look for yourself and you might be surprised at the variety of great games.

>>52632332
Those are bad games.
Mentioning warmachine alone tells me you have no idea what you are talking about.

The entire game is basically kill the VIP.

In any case it was asking for good, not just tolerable.

>>52632377
>bad games
Only warmachine is meh in that list tho.

>>52632377
Please, oh wise Anon, enlighten us lowly lesbians as to what exalted games your highness plays. Only the most magnificent of games I'm sure, otherwise why would one as noble as yourself waste your precious time?

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>>52624649
This desu

>loads of one-line "AoS is great fun" replies

Are we actually being astroturfed? Or is it mass Buyers' remorse?

Fantasy was a bit bloated, but "move into the middle, then roll 3+ and 4+ with some 12" re-roll buffs" struck me as rather boring, rather quickly.

>>52632377

Since you've written off most of the non-gw, non-historical market as "bad" with one crap post, what is a good game then? They all seem serviceable to me.

Guys what's your opinion on the Gore Pilgrim battalion for Khorne Bloodbound?
Seems pretty good, rerolls on slaughterpriest prayers and increase of range on the bloodsecrator.

>>52632437
The entire point is, that there are no good games. Every single one of them is passable as they will fail in one way or another.

>>52632485

>being this contrarian

Literally fuck off to whichever hole you crawled out of.

>>52632461
>gore pilgrim
>slaughterpriest
>bloodsecrator
Sounds like an OC donut steel by an edgy sonic fan.

It's times like these that I am SO happy I sold all my Beastmen before GW came out with AoS.

>>52632553
Well beastmen are pretty good in kings of war.

>>52632546
Do you have anything constructive to add, anon? Also all the Khorne units are like that.
It's pretty Khorney admittedly

>>52632569
I was a little sad to, because I enjoyed playing Fantasy more then 40k. Even if my army was a little sub par. They even had a pretty neat deathmask motif on all of my Gors.

>>52624649
I can agree with this. I started age of sigmar a few months ago after being drawn in with total war. While the setting isn't there, it's a fun game for anyone to pick up relatively easily, since all rules are online.
I'd actually be willing to bet a lot of the people bitching hardcore either haven't actually played it post rule revamp, or are just baiting and samefagging

>>52632579
Niether does GW, but here we are

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>>52623447
Play Oldhammer, specifically 3e. Here's some reasons why:
>Same WFB strategy and gameplay, less unit bloat
>Magic is interesting and fun, but doesn't go LolPurpleSun
>Units and heroes can be customized to hell and back. You can give the front ranks of a unit shields and the back ranks pikes and shit.
>Multiply most of your heroes stats by 10, add on some skills and you can use them in WFRPG 1e
>Actual rules for mercenary detachments, letting you use whatever models you have.
>Chaos is more restrained and not 'lolchaoswins'
>Low Fantasy >>>>> High Fantasy

>>52632377
>Malifaux
Never played, heard it's fun. I personally think the cards are stupid.
>Guild Ball
It's a little too fine-tuned to tournament play for my tastes, but I enjoy it. Lore is a little weak.
>Warmahordes
I used to really like it, jumped off a bridge with 3e IMO
>Infinity
One of my favorites. Completely understandable if you hate the art style, but the gameplay is smooth as fuck once you memorize how the dice rolls work. Plus, I love wargames that insist on alternative win conditions beyond 'KILL EM ALL'

>>52623447
As I have always said and still believe

AoS is a good game IF! All you want is
Beer and pretzel game
Not much depth
Want to use the models you paint up pretty
Brawl game

The AoS fan boys are gonna sit here and say "no it's super in depth and stratigic." When 90% of the games end in a table or scoop by turn 4 since it's more effective to just pile in the middle and see who kills the most first. One down side of AoS, the victor is really quickly chosen from about turn 2 on, which is decided by who got their wombo combo off first.
It's a good game if you don't wanna think to much.

>>52632671
I don't understand your accent anon
Can you repeat that?
I'm afraid I don't speak shitpostese.

>>52632377
Well fuck you too sir. If you were only half as knowledgable as rude I'd consider wasting more time on you.

>>52632713
Malifaux is unnecessary complex and the models are a bitch to assemble.

Guild ball, at that point just play BloodBawl is slightly less retarded

Warmachine failed hard model and rules wise.

Infinity is just meh, systems wise is fun, but unless you have an erection for everything generic sci fi it will suck.

In the end every game has its fault.


On a side note why the fuck do AoS look like warmachine models, I honestly confused some with warmachine the first few times.

>>52632807
Guild ball hasn't much to do with blood ball honestly.

>>52632807
>infinity
Problem I found with that game is the rules are more complicated then 40k, which I did not think was possible but man it sucks to look up stuff for that game.

Bolt action seems pretty solid, was gonna get into it before the shop that ran it closed :/

>>52632837
>Problem I found with that game is the rules are more complicated then 40k
They really aren't.

>>52632820
True.

In general I want a game that won't die in the next decade. While also not worrying about rules fucking my models so bad that I'm forced to buy new shit in order to not lose every game due to retarded balance

>>52632837
Flames of War. I wanted to play that, enjoy the game. Could not stand the autistic hard core historians.

>>52632837
Bolt action is still in production
Next to flames it's probably the best WWII game

>>52632807

>Guild ball, at that point just play BloodBawl is slightly less retarded

I'm a massive BB fan (please join our /tg/ League) and other than being roughly sports based they have nothing mechanically in common.

>>52632877
Neither are the ones from 40k, they are just spreader across multiple sources.

>>52632879
90% of flames players aren't hardcore like that
Also if you ever read the books the formations, rules and units are all based on historical examples
As a result talking about rules and units comes across as a hardcore history debate

>>52632912
Lucky bastards.

The fuckers got trigger about my pink tanks. Not because they where pink but because the table we where playing was a random green forest next to a town.

They bitch and moan about using desert paint job

>>52632332
>Malifaux, Guildball, Warmachine/Hordes, Infinity
WM/H has become crap, but all these are leagues better than Age of Shitmar.

Don't listen to GW shills! They are literally paid!

>>52632442
GW literally pays people to post here. I worked for them 2013-2015. No reason to think they stopped.

>>52632952
>WM/H has become crap
It's better than ever. The Mk3 transition was shit though. I'm glad they got their shit back together.

>>52632942
>pink tanks
Literally a crime
But jokes aside
Most don't care, but it is a historical war game.
You can go red with horizontal stripes and have that be historical. Also there are no rules in conjunction with terrain.

>>52632670
Nope, played it before and after the points system.

It is simple I will give you that. However, it is by far the most BORING ttg I have ever played. It should have just been called blob hammer. Shooting is fucked, activation is fucked, etc.

>>52632973
>Titan size models
>In skirmish game

No, till they fix the issue of Robots being shit in a game about robots.

Also the caster kill mechanic is annoying as fuck. I know why is there and that some mission are not like that, but game is designed with that in mind.

>>52632757
There are way better Beer and Pretzel games though.

My personal favorite is Armada right now. Pretty simple but a lot of fun.

>>52623447
Play AoS but with WHBF setting. No Stormcast, no realms, old characters and races.

>>52632998
40k is way worse than AOS
I hope 40k gets changed to AOS rulings
At least AOS is balanced at lower point levels
Plus narrative play really makes the game
There's something exciting about doing a path to glory campaign and having you're Chaos Lord become a daemon prince that isn't in 40k

>>52632973
Lol, nope ded gaem.

I'm glad people like you existed to buy my old armies though.

>>52632995
Pink tank as in the desert camouflage.

I had the most annoying FoW I've ever seen. They also had a huge erection for nazi and not facing other nazi players. So you ended with rooms filled with players and no one playing because everyone was a nazi.

>>52633011
>Colossals/Gargantuans
I'll agree with you, they're not a good addition to the game. Not a deal breaker for me though. I don't really consider WMH a skirmish game though, so maybe that's the difference in our perspective.

>No, till they fix the issue of Robots being shit in a game about robots.
They did. That's one of the big changes of Mk3. Some Jackspam lists are bordering on overpowered.

>Also the caster kill mechanic is annoying as fuck. I know why is there and that some mission are not like that, but game is designed with that in mind.
Absolutely love it. It means you always have a chip and a chair. Also it keeps the attrition honest. On the other hand, the game couldn't really function without it. I don't think you could win a game without your caster in 99% of cases.

>>52633043
>nazi players
Best, cheapest faction but over saturated.
I live in predominantly Jewish area so there's a lot of allied factions that I can enjoy games with being 1 of 2 nazi players.

>>52632971
>>52632952

This is the thing, I can't believe they would actually pay people. Even as a FTSE250 company, they have the marketing nous of your village butcher, Tom Kirby insisting they don't need to advertise because "word of mouth" works. I can't believe the marketing department is properly funded, nevermind actually has office space dedicated to astroturfing.

Remember the "Spots the Space Marine" bollocks where they wouldn't even give a statement to the BBC? They don't even talk to the Nottingham Post.

>>52623637

Wait, were Fantasy armies really this small back in the day? Damn that's nice lol

>>52633079
>This is the thing, I can't believe they would actually pay people.
I can't imagine that either. Chains are so damn cheap though.

>>52633067
Proper objectives?

The game works like a skirimish game so it is odd to play bigger games.

>>52631908

This dude is mad lmao

>>52633099
well, noone says, that you can't already play with an army like that

>>52623447

Play Age of Sigmar, but with Fantasy lore and legacy lists

Alternatively: Play Mordheim. Smaller model count, less rules you need to flip through. Fun games with friends.

>>52632998
This honestly. It's even more boring than WHFB 8th ed used to be.

>>52633099
It was like that until 8th edition tho.

>>52633067
>I don't think you could win a game without your caster in 99% of cases.
I disagree. One of the biggest problems I have with Mk. 3 and to a lesser extent the previous version is how squishy and useless most of the casters feel.

If you look at discussions and tournaments, only the last 2-4 casters for most factions have any traction, aside from a few notable standouts. It's because casters are easier to kill than they've ever been, most of them don't bring much to the table other than a few gimmicks, and as a result they're a liability compared to other units.

Removing caster kill lets you play the game on other fronts and lets you use casters that are too generalist or too specialist without completely making your army selection pointless. It also would make the game less infuriatingly stressful - One wrong move in Warmachine usually makes you lose the game, because a few inches is the difference between you rcaster being caught out or not. You'd at least be able to keep playing, run riskier strategies and not just gg no re.

>>52624114
>Fun-fact the faggot which burned his fantasy army at the announcement of AoS actually started playing it like 6 months afterwards
a good amount of his miniatures were unpainted too

>>52633099
It was mostly like that till 6th.
7th got bigger and 8th forced players to buy more shit in order to play.

The problem was it was nothing worth buying. It was obvious the entire thing was a money grab even to the cucks of fantasy.

You can't milk consumers for ever.

Let me sum up the Thread for everyone and every thread that ever happens

>AoS or WHFB
>Play Whatever
>AoS is pretty fun
>You're a shill
>GW are horrible
>Slavposter is discovered
>*Autistic screeching until the thread ends*

>>52633203
He was also a Dark Elf player, so he gets zero Sympathy from me.

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Play Hinterlands. It's kind of a mix of AoS and Mordheim. I honestly like it more than AoS itself. It's small, more converted (or not) warbands fighting around the Mortal Realms against other warbands. Every fighter gains experience and it's at least a bit more interesting than vanilla AoS.

Also join the Dark Age of Sigmar group on facebook (AKA AoS28, kind of a fantasy version of Inquisitor 28mm. The artist John Blanche himself is a member and throws up his cool models once in a while. People post some cool stuff)

(Don't hurt me)

>>52632884
Yeah i know they still make it but the store that was big into it got shut down randomly :/
>>52633018
Oh yeah, by all means there are better ones, I just lump AoS into that category

>>52633184
If your caster dies your entire battlegroup goes inactive/wild. Aside from troopspam lists, that's game right there. The actual caster kill rule is one of mercy. I strongly disagree with your assessment to the number and kind of viable casters. You need to look beyond what is posted on DGI, because that is an infinitesimal slice of the actual meta. Also, Haley2 and Sevy2 are two highly competitive casters and they are squishy as fuck.


>>52633118
How do you mean that? I'm saying that mechanically WMH is not a skirmish game, though it is in scale.

>>52633218
6th edition was the most double edged edition ever.

>Good solid rules
>Good books
>Good aditions to the setting

>Rules catered more towards large units
>Became tactically smaller
>Started the decline of Monsters and the rise of Warmachines

>>52632461
Bump for this
Can I get an actual weigh in?

>>52633251
Well most of 6th ed infantry was played with regiments of 16 or 20 tops.

>>52633234
In bigger warmachine games, how the game works it takes longer than equivalente size games of 40k

Unless the caster assplodes due to some bad roll.

>>52633251
you forgot
>came packaged with a functional skirmish game

>>52633284
Until Skaven Dropped and started the arms race of units of 30-40 being huge.

Warriors of Chaos were shit until people realised they could drop a 30 unit of Marauders and smash everything apart because they were pretty cheap.

6th edition did NOT favor smaller units, and small unit sizes were most kept in check because of points costs.

>>52633292
Yeah probably. It has more of a focus on individual models so the play time per model is higher.

Casters usually don't die to a single roll unless that role had some pretty serious buildup. Especially now with the new powerfield boosting.

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>>52633222

Dark Age of Sigmar is like, a group of people who came together, using the Hinterlands rules. They thought that the AoS stuff was too bright and cartoony, and so all dAoS stuff is usually more dark in tone, and uses Blanchitsu a lot.

>>52633320
But those units were still fleeing from side charges, they weren't the unmovable hordes with steadfast from 8th ed.

>>52633328
They basically turn the reliable one turn caster kill to a maybe one turn kill.

>>52633369
True enough, but Flank charges are where the "Smaller tactics" came in.

They were pretty much mandatory. And if it was Undead or Skaven, still difficult.

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>>52632676

This. The Oldhammer community is generally full of decent folk too. It's more of a frame of mind about playing and painting for fun rather than any specific rulesets or miniature ranges.

I play Song of Blades and Heroes with a mix of old Citadel lead, Reaper Bones and random stuff like Heroquest, make the odd post on the groups and forums, not once has anyone started autistically lamenting it not being "Oldhammer" enough.

Your choices are a dead game or a soulless ugly shifty game.
Don't play gw games

>>52633438
How much do they charge you for Internet in the gulag, Misha?

Skub Skub Skub....

Do you like... my car...

Seriously anon just put them on squares and play both.

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Fantasy is all but dead. You won't find it in many game stores and there will be fewer and fewer players every year. Why would you even consider getting into that?

>>52632837
I find that the best way to approach Infinity's rules is like a TCG - the core mechanic is simple, and then you've got a bunch of keywords. You're not going to know every keyword, and you don't need to unless you're going to a big tournament and want to be prepared. Absorbing the system in small steps is the key to success.

>>52632807
The only thing I have against your statement is the GB vs BB thing. Other than being sports games with VIOLENCE there's not much between them - hell the difference between football and american football alone makes it play differently.

I even pointed out that Infinity's biggest problem is, basically, art style. It's generic scifi with animuu thrown on top, it's definitely not for everyone.

>>52633218
I remember my old lizardman army. A good block of saurus, two big groups of skinks in skirmish, a stegadon, a slann and 3 kroxigors. 65 models, and that was, at the time, pretty big

>>52633474

There'll always be some ruleset to shuffle units of 20 Orcs around a table though, and people to play it, either in a shop or a club.

>>52632807
>Infinity is just meh, systems wise is fun, but unless you have an erection for everything generic sci fi it will suck.

More like if you have an erection on any 80s-90s cyberpunk animes (AD police, anything Otomo and Shirow pre-horsecock), that was also "modernized" with a bit insanity like dolphin the spacecraft captain, entire nation full of NASAs that turned muslims and dickbombs.

In the end, its just as generic as 40k...

>>52633378
Depends on how reliable it was beforehand. A buffed heavy will still oneround almost any caster. But those lucky "drifted AOE clipped your caster and I rolled 666 on the boost" assassinations are gone. As is ARM24 Harbinger and thank fuck for that.

>>52633234
Warmachine is American football/sack the QB where Infinity is soccer/actual football, but also like snooker or something idk.

>>52633502
I admit my bad. My idea was that it would be easier to play BB than GB.
Unless your local area really digs GB.

In other words it feels like a dead game already.

>>52633414
Grognards in general seem pretty chill, but I think anybody who isn't scrambling on a pointless hamster wheel of conspicuous consumption to try to shove their existential dread down as deep as possible is pretty chill.

>>52633571
The protip is to have a full playable set for a game so that you can play that game with anybody rather than trying to make each player have an individual collection of some system.

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>>52633580

Skirmish games are comfy too.

>>52633218
>6th Ed Skaven
>tacticool advice in the back of the army book
>"25 slaves is a good horde, 30 works but might be too unweildly"

Simpler times.

>>52633672
I dig that cobblestone.

>>52633329
I love the look of Blanchitsu but that name is so fucking retarded.

>have a Facebook profile for /tg/ stuff
>joined some Inquisimunda communities
>Blanche send a friend request
>he had a stroke and types in an odd but weirdly appropriate way
>he just wants people to see his non-GW art
>has to keep reminding people that he doesn't want to discuss his GW stuff

I feel bad for him.

>>52633672
I want my Mordheim books back.

I miss that game even if Skaven fucked over my SoS.

>>52633738
>I made my name doing x
>I hate that people want to talk about x

I know why it gets annoying but come on.

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>>52633722

That's a mat from Deep Cut studio. I wasn't sold on the idea of mats at first but they work when you compliment them with plenty of suitable terrain, and stuff like the hedgerows and fences emphasising the cobbles. Without it would look a bit weird.

They look a bit tacky when they're poorly designed and the terrain doesn't really match the patterns going on, like GW trying to jump on the bandwagon too late..

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>>52623447
I'll pretend this is a serious thread and give a serious answer.

System-wise they're both terrible. AOS is worse, but that doesn't say much.

Model-wise, the AOS releases are almost only shit.

Both can be fun and entertaining, and stimulating hobby-wise.

Neither is adviceable for competitive play.

AOS is of course much more supported.

>>52633099

Yes. Go back a few editions in 40k, and a regular HQ with command squad in a Razorback, two troops mounted in Rhinos, and a dreadnought, was considered a force to be reckoned with! Today it would probably be tabled on T2...

>>52633474

Jesus that´s a nice rack...other than that I didn't bother reading your post...

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>>52633672

Hey, I got that mat, the same time I got these Mordheim buildings! Unfortunately, they all arrived so very late, my gaming group had already moved on to other games.... Only painted these up not to long ago, its like half a building, out of a complete set of a great many more.

>>52633474
>AOS is all but shit. You won't find any players of good taste playing it and it will get worse and worse every year. Why would you even consider getting into that?

Mechanically 8th edition and AoS are both among the worst games on the market. Don't expect good balance or good game design. Choosing shouldn't be an issue as you can use the exact same models in both games, along with any other WHFB derivatives like Kings of War and 9th Age.

>>52634782
Cool

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>>52633832

Ill pretend this is a serious thread and give my personal opinion.

System-wise I think they are both terrible. While "Terrible" is a relative term, I wont go in to detail on this as I don't really care for what others say regarding my own opinion. AOS is in my opinion worse, and that does not really say much.

Model-wise, the AOS releases don't fit my own description of good. I wont go in to this matter, as I am not capable of distinguish quality from esthetics in my assumption.

Both can in my opinion be fun and entertaining (so you can assume the term "terrible" from above is a relatively loose term of my description of the game), and stimulating hobby-wise.

Neither is in my opinion advisable for competitive play, despite the fact that its enjoyed as such by untold thousands of hobbyists all over the world. But that's not a factor Im willing to weigh in to this argument.

AOS is of course much more supported, if this is in terms of community or supported by fresh releases from GW, I wont go in to and will let you decide for yourself.

- yours truly anon the autistic.


>There, I fixed your post for you.

>>52634672

I think the anon you replied to was referring to the game as "dead" as its not supported any more by a official company. Not dead as in "it has no more players".

And he is right, this slim hobby of ours is thin enough as it is. With the downfall of WHFB and GW´s resolute decision not to support it any more, made that game loose a lot of players. Ether they dropped the hobby completely, jumped another ship, or went on with AoS. Thus, it will be harder and harder to find game stores that has WHFB players in them, and even less of stores actually supporting events and such for that game.

Why would you ever consider getting in to a game that is constantly loosing its player base. That will be stuck with no official support, with no more models or books regarding the subject. I think this is what he asks.

That you make an absurd green text on matters that only relates to your personal opinion regarding AoS is no answer at all.

Besides... the girl still has a nice rack!

>>52624649

So... how easy is it to play the Age of Sigmar rules, but limit yourself only to the Warhammer world in fluff terms?

>>52635499

AOS is terrible system-wise because its rules go deliberately against intelligent and tactical play, making it entirely a game of luck and 14-year-old tier 'synergy building'.
Want to pin down that dangerous ranged unit in melee? Well, sucks to be you, they can still shoot from combat and in combat.
Want to slow down dangerous elite bruisers with a horde of weaker infantry? Their multi-wound attacks will cleave through multiple targets, effectively making them just as effective against any possible target and denying the importance of any tactical choice on where to use them.
Your model is supposed to be tought? Well it isn't, it's just a big blob of wounds that any attacker will chew through just like they would with any weaker target, because their offensive stats don't consider your defensive stats aside from a meaningless armour save, which is more likely to be on a Sigmarine goldenboi than on a monster that is supposed to be hard to kill.
Rules and abilities are either plain, boring linear buffs, or rely on dice rolls entirely making them just random and unreliable.
The supposed advantage of having a linear and unilateral statblock, that sacrifices depth to be more idiot-friendly, is also denied by miriads of individual special rules that give additional saves, so that a single attack may devolve in five or six consecutive dice rolls.

I could say why WHFB is bloated and clunky and terrible too, but I don't have to because you're clearly just an AOS fanboy and already know it better than me.

Model-wise, the AOS releases are technically terrible, which I can tell from my experience as illustrator, designer and sculptor (both digital and by hand). They lack texture and disregard anatomy and dynamism; many are posed ridiculously - I could mention the sigmarine archer that doesn't see where he's aiming because of his massive pauldron, or in general the fact that their arrows are designed in a way that would break the bow rather than be shot from it

>>52635672

The rules are simple to learn, fun to play and can even be mastered if your in to the competitive style of play.

Personally think AoS did best at narrative gameplay, but that's just me.

>>52635945

>Correcting my obviously bias post full of autistic propaganda of my personal opinion, all stated as facts by the book.
>How dares he?!?

You know, you could just suck it up and admit your a bloated neckbeard filled to the brim with self-righteousness.
All I did was translate your post so that it said what it really should have been saying, your personal opinion on the matter. But being an autistic fuck, you just couldn't take that now could you?

How about people play whatever the fuck they want?
Literally up tonyoubhow you spend your $$$, I'm not the government

>>52636120
But the other side needs to fucking die.

>>52636137
Who's the other side?
Who cares?
You're only incandescent in your rage because people are enjoying something you dislike or have been taught to dislike.
People can do whatever they fuck they want and trust me, some neck beard on the internet, shitposting is the last thing that's gonna stop em

>>52635945
>Continued
I haven't even mentioned the fucking hilarious mirrored dwarves.
Most preposterously, GW brand and price themselves as producers of premium-level miniatures for collectors. And yet all their Stormcasts are the same CAD model reposed with interchangeable accessories, the dwarves are horrible and, again, mirrored, and in general their designs don't stand up to the quality level of smaller studios with cheaper products - that sculpt by hand rather than in CAD.
To that I can add that I personally find their design mostly repulsive and childish, but I will give that that's subjective. Having studied and working in the field, I can say anyway that it's objectively nothing worth praising.

Both can be fun and entertaining because you can have fun and be entertained by whichever shitty game you like if you have the right company - but that doesn't make it a good game. Frostgrave is badly designed but still fun and entertaining. Confrontation was a confused mess of randomic rules but still was fun and entertaining. I've even had fun playing the D&D skirmish game for fuck's sake. Set up a nice scenery with miniatures you like and a minimal, improvised ruleset and you can have a good time. Nonetheless, there are good rules and bad rules. But apparently I have to explain this basic principle to an anon that called me autistic.

Lastly, neither is advisable for competitive play because they suffer from extreme lack of balance between and inside the playable factions; in the case of AOS you can see it from the complaints of the game's own fans in their dedicated thread. If lack of balance isn't enough, special rules tend to rely on lucky rolls rather than giving the models reliable advantages or characterization. So, if you want to play a balanced match where to test your skills, you shouldn't pick AOS, because you'll win by having the right faction, having the right matchups, having the cheapest synergy and rolling better than your opponent.

>>52635945
>>52636193
cool copypasta

can't wait for fantasycucks spamming it as truth lmao

>>52636243
Some should take those two posts put em in one picture and put the feels good stormcast eternal on top of em.
And then use that for the next general image

>>52635948
AoS is absolutely terrible at any narrative gaming because all the games are exactly the same. WHFB 8th edition was just as bad tho.

>>52636050
Dear spergmaster,
What I did in origin was giving my opinion in a form coherent with the amount of time and effort I wanted to spend in this stupid discussion.
You gave your smug reply, to which I responded with arguments.
Now, since you clearly lack arguments yourself and are just trying to sperg and look superior , rather than responding to my explanation you just repeat the same tautology that should have been obvious to everyone but butt-hurt AOS-kids, which is that opinions are opinions.

You can insult me all you want. You just don't have anything meaningful to say. You can writhe and sperg all you want; your pet game is objectively badly designed and so are the overpriced toys you sell kidneys to buy.

>>52636287
AoS still has to be more popular than WHFB.

hell it still has to be more popular than malifaux or kings of war.

>>52635945
>>52636193

Jesus, you actually continued the post.

Sigh.. .Ok Ill spell it out for you, its still all personal opinions, your personal opinions to be exact. And you still post them as "facts by the book", which in turn just reeks of autism!

They are laughing at you for Christ sake, so just do yourself a favor and stop. I tried to do a fun thing, but you clearly are going full retard on the response, showing your true colors. So just stop, your embarrassing yourself.

>>52636287
Still bumping for this incredible idea

>>52636312

Well sir, your entitled to your opinion. I still think the game was more fun without points, and with a good backstory to each game. This game was made for anyone willing to make a fun game, just do custom rules for terrain, custom scenarios and play it like that. But that's my feelings about it.

>>52636377
Jesus, you actually continued to respond with meaningless insults rather than counter-argumenting.

Sigh... Ok I'll spell it out for you, there are no absolute facts by the book, just unfounded opinions and argumented opinions, and dismissing founded opinions because there's not an ontological proof of their intrinsic truth, in favour of unfounded opinions, just reeks of idiocy.

AOS is the laughing stock of traditional games for Christ's sake, so just do yourself a favor and stop pretending it's a good game. I tried to start a meaningful dialogue and confrontation giving explanations and arguments for my opinions, but you clearly are going full troll and bait and damage control on your responses, showing your true colors. So just stop, you're embarassing yourself.

Also your grammar sucks.

At the very least age of sigmar is pretty popular with kids, more than WHFB for sure.

>>52636555

You know, throughout our posts, I have never even mentioned AoS being a good game. I simply translated your abomination of a self-righteous post that reeks of autism (>>52633832) to what it really should have said.

Though its obvious you have an obsession about the game in one way or another, stop forcing your opinions on to others. We get it, you hate AoS, its on a personal level, yea we all get that. The same way we get that you must have some mental disturbance or something, its obvious.
I play like 8 different miniature wargames. I have no time to favorise. I own a classic WHFB High Elf army, I have some AoS orks, I got my yu jing infinity warband, I play Warmahordes, I play DZC and DFC, I play 40k, Mordheim, and I probably forgot a few among them! So stop telling me what to fucking think, and what to fucking like or not like. There are objective facts out there, numbers that can actually show the status of factor X, but what you're posting ain't none of that, its all just personal opinions that you want to convey on to others as facts.

>>52636638

pfth, WHFB latest reports was that it sold less than paints and brushes, no wonder they got rid of it. At some level you have to understand that GW is a company, and this is a dying hobby as it is.

>>52633099
This is why I laugh when people call shit classic warhammer. They just know 8th edition.

6th with some fix from 7th would be a perfect and affordable WH edition. Is the one I enjoyed the most (but I had fun with 5th as well).

>>52636815
Listen damage control-kun, I have already wasted enough time to point out arguments you clearly don't understand.
OP asked for opinions on these games, I provided them, and all you've done is screech at me "THEY'RE JUST OPINIONS REEEEE! STOP POSTING OPINIONS REEEE!".
Quit your nonsense. Either contribute to the discussion or just go spam somewhere else.

>>52636851
>and this is a dying hobby as it is.
Brace yourselves, gents. The normies are coming.

>>52623447
I started playing WFB in 5th ed. Went thru 6th and 7th, and then on to Infinity, other specialized skirmish games and stuff like Blitzkrieg commander or Starmada. Now, I'm pretty much done with ridiculously detailed rules, and find that the barebones rules of AoS are just the right complexity to shove fun looking models around. It's like a complete circle.

>>52636956

Yes, he asked for opinions, this>>52635499 is a post with an opinion, >>52633832 this however is not, its just being a retard.

>>52636965

Im just saying, my soon to be 4 year old son is working his way with my HTC Vive, Im curious as to what will amaze him the way I was starstruck as s child, seeing WHFB for the first time.

>>52636881
6th Ed was garbage if you wanted to run infantry save for some specialized units. Half the lizardmen roster, the one with "saurus" in it was borderline garbage compared to skinkswarms with magic.

>>52636243
Not an argument.

>>52636377
You are a retard and the proof that GW can do whatever the fact they want as long as braindead people like you are around.

The poster brought arguments, you are the one just sperging. Go and stay go.

>>52637035
Infantry was weaker but I have seen it disappear only at the end of the edition.
Still, no pressure on fuckhuge units.

>>52636851
>le paints and brushes meme

>>52636994
Let me rectify for you.
These >>52635945 >>52636193
are posts with argumented opinions.
This >>52633832 is a concise expression of my opinions, which triggered you because I didn't use the safeword "It's just my opinion! Be safe kids!" at every paragraph.

This >>52635499 is a pretemptious and smug attempt to ridicule the previous opinions by pointing out the lack of arguments.

These >>52636050 >>52636377 >>52636815 >>52636994
are your attempts at damage control when provided with the arguments you asked for relying either on insults or on 'opinion' nonsense.
You're either an idiot or a troll whose bait I keep biting; in either case you're just making a joke of yourself.

This is not a conversation, this is one person giving arguments and the other giving 'yo momma' tier responses. So go back to your safe space or to memeland, whichever better suits your needs.

>>52637083

Well your entitled to your opinion, but just to let you know, his first post was nothing regarding arguments, it was his own opinion stated as facts. When joked around with, he responded by showing his autism.

Its clear the guy couldn't take a joke, and it is clear he cannot separate personal opinions and what he claims as facts. Even in his response, the post reeks of hate towards more than just the game, on a personal level. Its not arguments as much as it is just random trash talk of something said anon beliefs.
And the fact that he wont back down on it, really shows he truly do believe this is the truth, that somehow his opinion is status quo, and to bend from this direction one way or another, is to have wrong.

I admit, his later post was a bit more on the "its my opinion" side of things, but it still rings of "and I know Im right".

All I ever did was pull a joke, and he couldn't handle it.

>>52637216
This is just an elaborate "I was pretending to be retarded"
Off yourself

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>>52623447
Honestly? This guy has the right idea: >>52633672

If you like it, play AoS, since it will be a supported game, at least for a while.

If you want to experience/enjoy some of the "old" Fantasy without spending a lot of money and having to worry about finding players just play Mordheim.
All you need are a few models (around 10) for your warband and a friend or two and you can start a fun and enjoyable campaign.
Rules are free online now, and the game's surprisingly popular, even after all those years.

>>52637152

To "damage control" something I would need a subject on which to control I assume?
Is it the fact that you claim Im a AoS fanboy?
Should it be the fact that you exploded like a madman because you cannot take joke?
Im not really sure on what the damage is Im suppose to control here to be frank?

I never questioned your arguments, I questioned your original post and claimed it looked as if written by a guy with autism. And with your further post, you have come no closer to prove me wrong on the matter.

So its not so much as damage control but more of a statement that you simply couldn't take the pressure of being called out.

Just face it man, it was a badly written original post with a extreme angle of your personal opinion. I made a joke, and you just couldn't take it. Your on /tg/ anon get over it.

And again, you have some points in your later posts I give you that, but they still have some serious taste of "this is what I think, and I know its right". Im just letting it out there you know.

>>52637216
You're fucking hilarious.

Your first shitty 'joke' comment was against that anon's lack of arguments.

When you were provided arguments, you said the problem was they still were opinions.

When explained that argumented opinions are better than name-calling and sperging like you did, you defended yourself by saying that anon is obsessed and autistic and didn't call their opinions 'opinions' in a thread that asked for opinions and in which it is implicit that everything being said is an opinion.

When confronted with your bullshit, you say anon's problem is that they can't take a joke.

You can't take constructive responses. You can't dialogue and argument. You just get defensive every time your bullshit is pointed out and keep moving the goalpost to not admit you've been owned.

Git gud.

>>52637330

Consider this:
>>52637379

Stop embarassing yourself.

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>>52637307
This.
I've had more fun playing Mordheim with my friends, than almost any other tabletop game.
Fantasy skirmish with rpg elements and lots of narrative and randomness? Yes please.
I highly recommend it.

>>52637307
If Mordheim was still supported I'd say it is a good game.
Now it is just passable like every other shit in and out the market.

>>52637823

Supported in what way?

Pretty much every miniature you need you can either still get from GW, convert from GW parts or find alternatives from other companies.

Rules wise you've got years and years of material there already.

>>52637982
I'd be happy with a small specialist section in their webpage with printable terrain or template to make your own. Like they did back in the good old days.

In my dreams I want a public apology of everyone one from the Kirby team. If we can add one lash per year of them fucking up the hobby even better.

>>52637982

These are modern war-gamers anon, if it doesn't come in a licenced box for it's respective official system people aren't interested.

Next you'll want them to use their imagination...

>>52623447
It's worth it. Just pretend sigmarines don't exist and you're gold.

>>52632485
See here is the catch. YOU think none of those are great games.

They all are.
You have a shitty outlook. You likely dont actually enjoy wargaming.
Or you are just trolling.

>>52636851
WHFB barely got any releases in the end, no wonder in didn't sell. There wasn't anything to sell in the first place.

>>52636851
>and this is a dying hobby as it is.
A dying hobby with a double digit growth. Except for GW, who still manages to shrink.

>>52636851

I'd love to see those reports, or these those same magic 'reports' that nobody has ever seen?

>>52623447
Fluss wise Fantasy, gameplay wise AoS.

>>52639625
AoS has the most boring gameplay of any ttg I've ever played. I played 10-15 games and every single one just became a blob in the center with weird shooting bullshit.

>>52639835

It's fucking horrible, scrum hammer with assault rifle crossbows doing 360 noscopes while regiments are engaged in melee. I mean fair enough, if you want to shoot into a combat but you should need to pass a LD test and then have a 50/50 chance of hitting your own men.

The worst part is, skirmish Fantasy would have been so much better and more accepted. I think few Fantasy gamers would argue that 28mm is an ideal scale for rank and flank, that should be kept to 1/100 scale, but this new setting was a total deal breaker.

What about LotR strategy battle game?

>>52640001
It's fucking awesome. The best ruleset GW has ever come up with and some really great models. Put a LOTR orc beside a WHFB one from the same period and see for yourself.

>>52632912
I gave up on Bolt Action when it became apparent that the local BA community was full of turbo-autists with barely concealed erections for Nazis.

>>52631908

So much money gone.

>>52640001
Love it man. Is awesome and you can really have fun with an handful of models.
Gameplay changes in base of the faction, equipment (say, pikes vs shields vs cavalry) and
the percentage and quality of heroes matters.
Also, no powergaming barring maybe Sauron with the ring. The Witch King is powerful, but has 1 wound. You have to use terror and magic before descending on your enemies.

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>>52624114

No he didn't.

Here's an interview with him a year ago.

http://tencopper.com/article/2015/09/man-burns-warhammer-army-over-age-of-sigmar/

Even after they added points he said it was shit, he plays Warmachine now.

>>52640561

could have at least sold them?

>>52641995
>he plays Warmachine now

Why am I not surprised?

>>52642485
That he prefers a game with rules? What is so surprising?

>>52635672
Pretty easy since they put out AOS rules for every single WHFB model available in 8th ed when they launched the game

>>52635945
>>52636193
I didnt think it was possible to write so much and be wrong about everything

>>52639511

If you know your wrong, why bother even posting?

>>52639474

In the end times, it got plenty. Problem still remained, the hobbyists where a bunch of basement dwelling neck beards still sucking on moms titts, that hadn't bought shit for the past decade. They already owned everything they needed and beyond. They never got out to play, and only stuck around complaining about how things used to be better.

It was a simple case of having to small of a fan-base, in a game that was to hard to get in to. The average customer spends the most during his first 1-3 years engaging a hobby, after that the spending stops. So its safe to say any new kid joining is worth more in the eyes of a company, than several grumpy old men.

>>52637403

Again, not having arguments on your opinion, just stating the obvious, that you got autism and a hard time admitting so.

recap;

>OP whats your opinion?
>you: Ill tell you, X game fucking sucks, the models are shit, the gameplay is trash, the quality sucks, it sucks!
>me: gee, thats a very personal perspective filled to the brim with hate, lets make a joke
>you: flips his shit for thinking I questioned your "facts" and dared to make a joke on your behalf.

There you go.

>>52642485

Because he was a WAAC autist who just played in tournaments, so he'll enjoy that crowd.

Probably explains why he played Dark Elves.

>>52643156

No Games Workshop just wanted 40K 2.0 and it hasn't worked.

They'll be in for a shock as well, because 40K has been hugely inflated over the years of GW's dominance and now that has ended it will shrink back to a normal level. It will still be highly profitable but in GW's wisdom they'll probably reboot it.

OP Here, I just started a fucking shitstorm so long it lasted 24 hours.

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>>52643242
I assume insinuating your interlocutor's autism is your go-to strategy for defending yourself in conversation.

>>52642851
I love how none of the AOS fanboys has even tried to discuss the arguments pointed out in these messages. It's like they can't deal with actually reasoned criticism or something.

>>52639835
That you don't know to play is no one's issue. I've played around 20 this year alone and the scenario you've described only happened once and it was with two meelee only armies.

>>52632757
But why you'd want to pile as much in the middle. Objectives rather more often than not sit in the corners and if you kill your opponent while he has the points lead you lose.

>>52636353
Yes, we don't have anything meaningful because aside from your desperate rants you didn't give anything meaningful either.

So why lose time?

>>52641995
You do realize that's 2 months after the burning, not 6 months, don't you=

Also, source on the warmachine part? It's about as baseless as the AoS claim, desu.

>>52646047

Nevermind me, just read the article.

I think AOS is fun. Am I wrong?

>>52642589
>>52642485
And he fucking dropped Warmashit and went back to AoS.

Fucking lol.

>>52643156
But the End Times was shit.

In fact, as long as GW kept on pumping out armies, WHFB was continuously ranked 3rd best selling wargame right after 40k and warmachine+hordes, so what you are saying is totally unfounded. Then you have the End Times, an awful writing where most of the characters die, armies get grouped with ham-fisted plots and there was the imperative of selling big ass models nobody wanted in the first place.

Until GW stopped their (already scarce at that time) stream of good fantasy releases, WHFB was selling. In fact it was selling better than AoS is now, and that is with AoS being fully supported with releases every other month.

>>52646093
Source ?

>age of smegma
>fun gameplay and a lot smoother learning curve
>absolutely fucking horrible lore and setting

>fantasy
>ded
>awesome setting and lore with tons upon tons of source material and roleplay stuff and so forth

Dont play wargames, just play WFRP

>>52646104
This is patently false. Post-GHB AoS did get 3 armies but all were in summer. During the fall period AoS managed to rank 4th place, with a bigger market than in 2011 (WHFB's last year in 3rd rank) and the company earned as many profits as they did in their best half-year prior to 2016-2017. AoS got ZERO releases that fall.

>>52646128
GW sales are still smaller than they were in 2011-2012 tho, so the market growth comparison doesn't hold much water.

>>52646127

>I can't afford models, time for le wacky hi-jinks with autists playing cat girls and daft voices

Not an RPG man myself.

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>>52646008
Didn't he?

>>52635945
>AOS rules lack basic strategic depth because:
>>A model's attack will be just as effective against any type of target, denying the importance of picking favorable melee engagements;
>>Engagement in melee doesn't prevent a model from shooting any target and shooting against a target in melee doesn't give any significant penalty, denying the tactical value of pinning ranged units in melee;
>>There is no resource management involved in spellcasting, making it just a 'If i'm lucky enough on this roll I can't possibly influence, the spell goes off!'
>>Models' special rules are mostly just linear buffs or rely entirely on unpredictable dice rolls, rather than characterizing the model and giving it reliable qualities
>>A rulebook that justifies its lack of depth with the intent of simplicity forces you to make up to five consecutive dice rolls just to resolve one attack (hit, wound, save, wound multipliers or other random stuff, additional saves)
Discuss this.

>AOS models quality is lackluster because:
>>They lack dynamism, have often terrible anatomy, and all surfaces are flat and untextured
>>Some models are posed with ridiculous errors, like the famous stormcast archer
>>The game's posterboy army is made entirely by copies of the same CAD model with changed poses and swapped accessories
>>Another 'original' AOS release is entirely made of the same naked dwarves with different weapons, and many are even mirrored
>>Despite all of this, GW brands and prices its product as premium quality miniatures for hobbists and collectors. The set in the picture is 40 USD, 8 bucks a piece.
Discuss this.

>AOS isn't advisable for competitive play because it lacks strategic depth as stated above, has terrible internal balancement as discussed in EVERY AOS GENERAL, and relies more on favorable matchups and random rolls than on skill
Discuss this.

Or are you still going to dismiss arguments as "desperate rants"?

>>52641995
>>52642485
>>52646093
he plays ninth age, he literally still uses that youtube you goddamn retards

>>52646251
he actually buys AoS models too, you can see some conversions he's done with some of the new iron jawz

GW wins again

>>52646191
1) On rules.
-Units get buffs and additional abilities depending on the target. Case in point brutes and skelletons.
-It prevents them from shooting because they are dead. Good luck shooting when out of 20 you lose 17.
-Dice management was a cancer in 8th ed and 7th ed for 40k. Fuck that with a jackhammer.
-Brutes, again.
-Whining.

Models: Kharadron Overlords. Vanguard hunters and Palladors. Nuff said.

Imbalance: At adepticon only TWO players lost all their games. WHFB's last tournament had 6 in adepticon. Using the wins/loses tracker in tga.community, the GA with the worst record, death, had a 49,1% of wins. The one with most wins, order had 51,7%. EVERY AOS GENERAL my ass, by the way. Same as random rolls and favourable match ups.
Oh, and those two players I mentioned? Only got to play the first 3 games, apparently a block of 16-ish only could play on saturday.

I'd call them arguments if they weren't plain wrong and made up shit in plenty of cases.

>>52646251
The god-damn retard is you. Lord Tremendous is another person, not this guy.

>>52645680
AOS fans are libtards of tabletop wargames.

>>52646289
>Kharadron Overlords
Pig disgusting.

>>52646289
>-Units get buffs and additional abilities depending on the target. Case in point brutes and skelletons.
Nice cherry-picking here. That's not what the vast majority of units do and that's not what the ruleset supports.
>-It prevents them from shooting because they are dead. Good luck shooting when out of 20 you lose 17.
Neat! I didn't know you could neutralize enemy models by killing them, thanks for pointing it out for me! Now the fact that I can't opt for the tactical choice to pin them in combat so that even the survivors can't shoot is completely justified! :D
>-Dice management was a cancer in 8th ed and 7th ed for 40k. Fuck that with a jackhammer.
"Something I don't like is a cancer, no reason given" isn't an argument. Resource management means your choices have an impact on the game, you can take risks or you can focus resources for reliability.
>-Brutes, again.
Cherry-picking, again.
>-Whining.
Arguments that you aren't even discussing. You're the one whining.

>Models: Kharadron Overlords. Vanguard hunters and Palladors. Nuff said.
The fact that some models are good doesn't disprove that they still sell at absurd price garbage like the entire Stormcast and Fyreslayers lines.
Palladors are 40 fucking USD a piece for models that look okay-ish. Check any studio that actually makes artistic miniatures and see what they sell for that price. 'Nuff said.

>At adepticon only TWO players lost all their games. WHFB's last tournament had 6 in adepticon. Using the wins/loses tracker in tga.community, the GA with the worst record, death, had a 49,1% of wins. The one with most wins, order had 51,7%.
This doesn't really mean much, you know.
It is a game where you're more likely to win for getting two turns in a row than for playing strategically. Hell, the rules go deliberately against strategic play.

>I'd call them arguments if they weren't plain wrong and made up shit in plenty of cases.
No u

>>52646452
>Check any studio that actually makes artistic miniatures and see what they sell for that price.

What's "artistic" in your opinion? Andrea? Or mainstream garbage like infinity?

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>>52646493
>Or mainstream garbage like infinity?
This is how you sound

>>52646493
>Mainstream garbage
Compared to what, GW?

And yep, Infinity shits all over GW stuff. So does Andrea. So does Mierce. So does Kingdom Death. So does Creature Caster. I could go on.

>>52646768
Scibor, Avatar of War, Prodos...

>>52633099
40k was the same. The points values literally halved from 2nd to 3rd

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>>52646452
I mean, they're by no means bad models, but for that pricetag I've gotten four whole LOTR armies of about 120 models between infantry, cavalry and monsters. Or I could get 4-6 fine-ass dragons from Reaper.

>>52646858
Oh wow those look fucking hilarious.

They'd look good with different riders.

>>52646858
Is this suppose to be good-looking models? He-man called, he wants his toys back.

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>>52646624
Infinity models are objectivity meh. They are not bad, but nothing to write home about.

Even the generic models from other companies have more "soul" than infinity.

The robot thingies are cool thou, the infantry is bland.

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>>52646768

>>52646493
>Mainstream garbage like infinity
>meanwhile, not!generic warcraft paladins in not!generic high fantasy snuff is a-okay

I love how all these GW painsluts defend oh so desperately their abusive husbando.

>>52646452
But anon you are playing a wargame not just painting.

You need to make decent looking models and not a bitch to assemble.

In multipart model kits GW is sadly the king, in mono pose maybe with 2-5 parts models you have a lot.

As much as I love Malifaux most of their models are a bitch to assemble.
Specially the fucks that have small parts and with no easy way to pin them.
Why is that problem? Well because you play with the models. Move them around, transport them. They need to be sturdy enough.

>>52646151
>implying RPGs involve autistic shit like imitating voices
Dont play with autists anon

>>52647200
>Muh kustom TM kits
Yep, enjoy ur army of garden dwarves with paladrons, its totally uniqie.

>>52647313
Enjoy your mono pose army?

What was your point?

>>52647200
>In multipart model kits GW is sadly the king
lel no it's not the 00's anymore.

>>52647200
The Malifaux models are great, they're only going to break if you flick them off the table every time one dies and transport them in a lunchbox.

>>52647200
You do have a point, GW is great when it comes to production quality and poseability. AOS stuff is still overpriced and often laughably designed, though.

>>52647860
Things fall and tumble during games. I'd like my things to survive a fall from a table. Hell just survive a drop from a in game building.

>>52632111
how is it terrible besides the lore which we all know is lackluster

>>52648499
Models=shit.
Gameplay=shit.

>>52648357
Malifaux models are way more resilient than most finecast-made minis

>>52648499
Look up, it has been explained in depth during the thread

>>52647176
I love how every argument against AoS is made by rampant autists who thinking insulting people and making assumptions about a game they don't play think they know about the game.

Every single Anti-AoS shill I have seen is either an angry grognard from 8th edition, or mongoloid who doesn't play ANY warhammer game.

Want the truth? AoS has the most tactical depth of every fucking WHFB game I ever played.

>>52646858
Shit I have been fooled by dollarydoos. The price is actually less than half what it seemed.
Still pricey and still not masterpieces compared to the other examples provided.

>>52648549
>Why is AoS shit
>MUH MODELS REEEEEEE
>GAMEPLAY NOT SQUARES REEEEEE

AoS is better than Fantasy, and arguably, better than Warmahordes.

>>52648527
It is called failcast for a reason.
Plastic for wargaming is the best thing ever.

No worries about paint chipping not worrying about the model assploding if they fall from than 5cm height

>>52648596
You do realize that the one insulting people and providing no arguments whatsoever has been the one defending AOS, right?

You do realize that the anon who criticized in depth and detail AOS has prefaced that WHFB was shit as well, right?

You do realize that having more tactical depth than any fucking WHFB game you've ever played is the same as having more tactical depth than a chimp's turd, right? And it would be false in either case, too.

Now go back to GW for your daily beating.

>>52648613
> 'REEEEEEE' greentext are better than argumented opinions
You know you should be over 18 to visit 4chan, right?

>>52648735
What in depth detail?

The one where he goes

>there is zero tactical depth because rolls are based on a flat to hit instead of a table

AoS is as tactically deep as any Wargame because fundamentally, just because AoS doesn't hide it's numbers, doesn't make it any less tactical.

When your only counterpoint to try and dismiss a sides opinions is "G-Go away shill" then you know you have no fucking argument.

>>52648758
he says while being booty blasted by AoS

>>52648802
AoS always end in "mosh pit" battles.

There is no need to flank or even worry about facing and positioning.

You could be playing a card game at that point.

AoS does not play like a wargame. Regardless if you enjoy the game or not.

>>52648901
>AoS always ends in Mosh pit battles

Considering Mosh pitting is the easiest way to lose a game and you can ironically win a game with your entire army wiped out proves you know fuck all about AoS.

>There is no need to flank or even worry about facing and positioning

What is Piling in? What is cutting off a unit from allowing it to get all it's attacks, Arguably AoS demands MORE than WHFB for Flanking and positioning because it means the difference between eating 10 attacks and 30 attacks.

You're basically arguing "Why doesn't AoS have numbers to represent something the models can already simulate"

You think Alexander the great turned a flank because it gave him +1 combat bonus and denied ranks?

>>52648949
More than WHF...

Anon please stop, we can enjoy bad games no need to shill.

>>52648976
>In WHFB, It simply causes a +1 mod (+2 for the rear) and may or may make it slightly easier to break a unit.

>In AoS, a false charge into the front of an enemy can cause your units to be utterly fucked.

AoS doesn't have steadfast, and failing Morale tests in AoS is risker than in WHFB where having like 50 ways to ignore Morale means a 50 man unit of Skaven will still hold despite a flank charge.

AoS also Balances monsters and warmachines, unlike WHFB where a Monster NEEDs a flank charge or it's an auto loss.

Besides, I think WHFB "Mosh pitted" ten times more than AoS because of battle lines.

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>>52646768
Yeah, I can't go back to painting GW shit after painting nothing but Infinity and KDM over the past few months. Thinking about selling for that reason alone (game play has never been a big deal for me).

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>>52647149
>objectivity meh
>doesn't know what objectively means
>can't even use the correct tense

kys

>>52647176
Almost as if there are other reasons for it....

>>52648923

>>52647449
Seriously, where did the idea that GW is customizable and posable come from? Every space marine looks the fucking same whether you glue spikes to him or not!

>>52648499
Every game turns into blobhammer. The points are so badly balanced that the game was better WITHOUT POINTS. No real player choice. Its just yahtzee with models, and there are way better ways to spend your time.

>>52646768
>Infinity

Some models yeah

>Kingdom Death/Creature caster

DUDE TITS AND BLOBS!

>>52649276
Where the fact that they're not Monopose figurines like half the casters in the post I replied too.

Seriously, name a single good competitor to GW when it comes to Multi-pose models.

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>>52648596
>mongoloid who doesn't play ANY warhammer game
Sounds fucking amazing. Would totally play infinity with Genghis.

>>52649313
Genghis would rather stick infinity poles up your ass lmao

>>52648802
>doesn't hide it's numbers
Thinks that probabilities not adjusting based on multiple variables is "transparent" and "bold." Did you get excited when apple removed its headphones jack?

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>>52648949
>ironically win a game with your entire army wiped out
While possible, this happens way more rarely than Maifaux or Infinity, two games with an actually intelligently designed mission system.

Also, you should look up irony. Misusing it there bud.

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>>52649045
>a false charge into the front of an enemy can cause your units to be utterly fucked
You are acting like stuff like this happens all the time, when you do it once, realize you made an obvious mistake and never do it again. I have never seen anyone do this who knows how to play the game, so that is not a real choice that players have, it is just a stupid gotcha mechanic that only works once.

>>52649344
>Just gives a flat integer to use modifiers on.
>B-But a two variable to then figure out the flat integer is more effective and tactically deep.

Most of the rolls for hitting and Wounding in WHFB were either 3+ 4+ or 5+.

So literally the exact same for AoS, they just removed the Two Variable integer for Close combat.

In WHFB, -1 BS or WS usually didn't change anything. Now in AoS -1 to hit is exactly that, -1 to hit.

>>52649397
>It's a stupid gotcha mechanic
>Piling in is a gotcha mechanic

Have you played a single game of AoS?

>>52649302
GW IS NOT MULTIPOSE.

Sure they have rounded balls at the end of their arms, but doing anything besides the pose on the front of the box looks retarded.

KDM does a way better job of this because all the weapons, arms, heads, etc are swapable and designed to be multipose, unlike GW where the armor or lower body gets in the way of true posability.

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>>52649302
Fucking retard.

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>>52649334
No way, he was a chiller who would run a Haqq biker army.

>>52649437
>Posts the single most ugly model Kingdom death ever made.

Kingdom Death has and always will be a scam, their Resin is flaky and shit and their models scream overdone Anime shit.

The best model they made is Flower Knight. Everything else is tiddy statue tier shit.

>>52649416
>So literally the exact same for AoS, they just removed the Two Variable integer for Close combat.
So literally not the exact same.

Having it depend on your skill AND your opponents skill is way more interesting.

>Have you played a single game of AoS?

Unfortunately I have played several. Making piling in mistakes were never done after the first game. But maybe you and your friends are too stupid to master an asininely simple mechanic.

>my plastic toy game is better than your plastic toy game

am I on /v/?
Fuck you all.

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>>52649473
How hard is it to use 4chan via braille?

>>52649480
Oh, you're Slavposter.

You have never played a single AoS game at all you lying retard.

>having to rely on your Weapon Skill and your opponents skill is way more interesting.

It barely made the difference between a 3+ or a 4+ in the long run.

>>52649487
you must be new here.

The battle between GW shills and everyone else is decades old.

>>52649492
Let's be honest you autistic retard.

You like Kingdom Death because it makes your peepee hard and it's not GW.

Kingdom Death are Anime figures you can paint.

>>52649492
>Posts a bird with an asshole made out of hands
>This is surely a better model than everything everyone else makes.

Nigga, that looks overdesigned and appalling and screams of CAD design.

>>52648802
You don't know what you're talking about and accuse others of being buttblasted while you're clearly the one being delusional about the money he has blown on shitty models for a shitty game.
Go on, entertain us. Your game is a laughing stock for all other wargamers, but you can keep saying that they're all just 'butthurt grognards' if it makes your ass less sore.


>AoS is as tactically deep as any Wargame because fundamentally, just because AoS doesn't hide it's numbers, doesn't make it any less tactical.
The table means specific units will be better to counter other units and will be weaker against others yet, or some units will be so good that using them against trash mob will be just overkill and a waste of their worth. In AOS there exists no such thing because it is reduced to 'you always output X damage to any target, the target can take up to Y damage from any source'.
But you're clearly either too stupid to understand or too dense to even try. Probably both.

Are you going to defend shooting-from-melee too, next? Or say that not having resource management in spellcasting and other army abilities is an improvement?

You don't have arguments and dismiss detailed opinions with memetic bullshit.
Stop being an idiot. If not possible, just stop being.

>>52648949
>>52649045
>WHFB
>WHFB
>WHFB
You sure are obsessed with WHFB, considering noone else is mentioning it as a positive example and those accusing AOS admit that WHFB was just as bad.
You're just mad at people pointing out the flaws of your pet game and your only defence is the 'booh hoo salty butthurt grognards' narrative.

Pathetic.

>>52649302
>KD makes 32mm human miniatures in perfect proportion so detailed they have fucking nails
>"HAHAHA KD IS JUST TITS AND BLOBS!"
Lel

>>52646779
Scibor, the pressmoulder extraordinaire? Oh wow, I knew /tg/ had shit standards, but really?

>>52649672
To be fair 6th was the last good edition for WHF.

The sad thing is he is comparing the solid shit 8th was with the liquid shit that AoS

If I have to deal with shit I prefer to have something solid

>>52649362
>infinity
>intelligently designed missions
>What is kurvaspam

With all respect, the only game with well-done scenarios is Malifaux, Infinity just went full retard with ITS and muh specialist lists.

>The table means specific units will be better to counter other units and will be weaker against others yet, or some units will be so good that using them against trash mob will be just overkill and a waste of their worth.

Literally never the case ever did someone thing "man my High Elves have a higher WS than goblins, I better focus them on something else"

>In AoS there exists no such thing

Right out of the box we have Liberators rerolling hits of 1 against models with 5 wounds or more, and entire mechanics around Keywords and unit types.

>Are you going to defend shooting from melee too

Sure, it doesn't break any mechanics and doesn't make close ranged attacks utterly useless. Some units like Vanguard-Hunters or Fyreslayers have extremely short ranged shooting attacks designed to provide bubbles of support.

>Or say that not having a resource management in spellcasting or other army abilties is an improvement

It means I'm not taking a legion of battery wizards for one, and it means Heroes are more than passive damage mods.

>You don't have any arguments
>Proceeds to have no fucking arguments himself.

Play some fucking games of AoS and you'll find out quite quickly "Just rolling to hit" and "Mosh pit" are terms used by shit players.

I mean fast shooting armies are quite strong right now, but so are static gunlines AND fast melee armies.

You can do all Cavalry armies, all monster armies and so forth and the base mechanics of the game do not hinder you at all unlike WHFB did.

>>52649672


See

>>52649646


>>52649749
6th edition was the beginning of the end. It started all the bad trends that were amplified down the road.

>>52649808
That is why I said last good, maybe decent would had been a better word

>>52649790
Here we go again.
You can enjoy bad games, but don't pretend they are good just because you like them.

>>52649845
>You can enjoy bad games, but don't pretend they are good just because you like them.

Simple =/= bad. I have had more fun with AoS than I had the last 8 years of WHFB.

The kicker is we literally still just play in the Warhammer universe, my gaming group recently did the invasion of Grom the Paunch.

I mean I have never met a single critic of AoS who has actually played the game.

>>52649888
>8 years playing
>Enjoying AoS

Maybe you don't like wargames and should play things like Settlers of Catan it is something simple you might enjoy more

>>52649416
You don't fucking understand the point.
I'm not surprised you can't see the purpose of a table with variables, since clearly GW dropped it because, even in its simplicity, it was too difficult for the kids AOS is marketed for to understand.

While WHFB was a terrible system in terms of turn management, unbalance, movement, magic and lots of other things, the tables to hit and to wound were brilliant and worked wonderfully. But since you can't see the reason for yourself, let me explain it to you.

Assume you have a cheap unit A which has ws4 and an elite unit B which has ws6. Your enemy has a cheap unit X (ws 3) and an elite unit Y (ws 5).
Now, your elite unit hits either X or Y on 3+ and is hit by either on 4+, while A hits X on 3+ and Y on 4+ being hit by X on 4+ and by Y on 3+. So while B would be just as effective against X and Y, you want them to go after Y because they're better at dealing with them than A would be.

Another example? Shooting arrows into a unit of marauders will cause a bunch of casualties, not too many, but a few. Shooting arrows into juggernaut riders will probably produce no effect because you'll have only one on six chance to wound them and one on six chances to pass through their armour, and even then they have multiple wounds, so the volley might not even manage to kill a model and reduce the unit's attack potency. A cannonball, for the same reason, would be wasted on marauders - yeah, it wounds on 2+, ignores armour and causes multiple wounds, but they're cheap T3 naked men with one wound each and you'll just kill the 3-4 in its trajectory; shooting it into a unit of juggernauts is much more effective, because the cannonball is just as likely to wound them (a unit you would otherwise struggle to scratch) as anything else, ignores their impressive armour, and causes multiple wounds, with good chances to kill every model it touches.

I can't believe I had to explain that.

>>52649933
I've been playing Warhammer for close to 15 years now, but the game went down hill for me extremely 8 years ago.

AoS has reignited that spark in Wargaming, It's very open and the ideas for themed armies and designs flows very well. It helps that entire swathes of the Army choices are not redundant.

>>52649989
So you are new to wargames.
That explains a lot

>>52649233

Problem with this picture is the same with the guy trying to prove an airplane is better than a car. Each has its own quality and no one can say one is "better" than the other due to it being two entirely different vehicles.

Some may prefer the airplane over the car and vice versa, but none the less, is it proven that that makes it "better" in reality.

Now, what your trying to prove here in the example above, and I have argued this many times at my local shop with the few Infinity players we got there (who argues much the same as you), is that you are trying to compare single mono-posed metal models to a multi part plastic kit.
And then you get angry and pull up the good´ol ace in the sleeve, and rattles a box of Centurion s or better yet a box of Fyreslayers in front of me, while at the same time holding the latest and greatest from the Infinity range in your other hand. This in itself is just silly, and you know it. We all know all companies makes ugly models, even infinity (ever seen that Ariadna ranger doing a "combat roll" but looking like hes falling over?). Its a week argument, in an already useless debate, thats all Im saying.

And to me, there is no denying, Infinity makes kickass models, but your still trying to prove to me that the plane is better than the car.

>>52649985
>table with variables
AoS give variety via units abilities.

>>52649985
>the tables to hit and to wound were brilliant and worked wonderfully.

Which is why almost all succesful
games designed and released past year 2000 got rid of them, right?

>>52649985
You do know AoS effectively simulates the old charts within the models right?

>Rolling to his is either a 4+ or 3+ with various outllying rolls with specialist rules or units.

>Wounding is the same

>Armor mods are usually a -1,-2,-3 respectively.

All AoS did is front line the rolls, And they did so because everything is much much easier to kill in AoS.

So you're whining we went from an arbitrary table, with pretty much the same outcome, to a base system with Modifiers.

Now, you argue the "Judging" of the value between WS5 and WS3 was "tactically impressive" Yet all it actually did was make the WS stat useless as fuck. A +1 WS was useless a +1 to hit was not.

>>52649985
>Ranged shooting
>Table was useful

Nigga, what? The BS was entirely useless. it should have just been a roll chance.

You rolled your BS against..... your BS.

You then rolled to wound against Strength like normal.

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>>52646191

>>52650179
Except that's all wrong, because AoS has all of those, it's just not decided via consulting a fucking table.

>>52649790
>Literally never the case ever did someone thing "man my High Elves have a higher WS than goblins, I better focus them on something else"
Probably you never concerned yourself with strategy then. No surprise you like AOS! :D

>Right out of the box we have Liberators rerolling hits of 1 against models with 5 wounds or more, and entire mechanics around Keywords and unit types.
What? A single unit that can reroll 1s to hit against specific targets? That's reliable as fuck! Suddendly I see depth in this game! So much better than adding one fifth page to the rules to integrate even more depth in the base rules instead of having to rely on individual special rules! :D

>Sure, it doesn't break any mechanics
They can't get any more broken, thats' for sure
>and doesn't make close ranged attacks utterly useless.
God forbid a game forces you to play smartly to get the most out of your units
>Some units like Vanguard-Hunters or Fyreslayers have extremely short ranged shooting attacks designed to provide bubbles of support
It's a fortune you don't have to maneuver them carefully and manage the risk-reward dynamic of using powerful but frail and short ranged harassers. That would have made the game soooo boring, am I right?

>It means I'm not taking a legion of battery wizards for one,
It means you're freed from the burden of having to choose how to use finite resources and can just play randomly letting the dice decide.
Also we're not talking of 7th edition WHFB, we're talking of any non-GW wargame. Hell, even 8th had winds of magic that removed the possibility of battery wizards.

>Heroes are more than passive damage mods.
I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about. You're clearly living in your own little world of AOS magnificence.

>>52646333
Holy shit, yes.

>>52649790
>>52650194
>Play some fucking games of AoS
I have. I have tried to like it and I even had fun, because when you sit around a table with friends, painted miniatures and a good scenery to roll dice, it's pretty easy to have fun even with a shitty system. That's what you're doing, having fun with a shitty system and aggressively pretending it is good.

So for the future I'll rather invest money (well, luckily I haven't spent money on GW shit myself for the last ten years, but still) and time in better games. You don't have to do the same, but please stop defending a shitty product.

>>52646452
>Kharadron Overlords
These are the most generic, unimaginative pieces of shit I have seen in a long time.

They look like warmachine models, and that is not praise.

>>52650194
>>52650231

>I totally played some games of AoS

>whines about shooting in Melee like it's a fucking issue.
>Whines about a lack of Magic resource like magic can destroy cames by stacking it.


What army did you play? because it sounds like you got stomped by a Fyreslayer Warrior Kinband and think Fyresteel Axes are OP.

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>>52649524
Right.
>Good Models
>Not GW
The above are identical statements.

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>>52649715

>>52650257
Man you people are salty as fuck ain't you.

babylegs Kabuto looks like shit bro.

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>>52649753
Your ignorance is showing. Check out worlds last year. Every list has 13-15 models. The 20+ model lists didn't even place top 30.

>>52650257
You can polish shit and make it look good

Unpainted crap is what matters here.

>>52649715
>32mm human minis in perfect proportion so detailed
>they're monopose CAD minis
>They all have stonking huge tits and ass.

>>52649790
>You can do all Cavalry armies, all monster armies and so forth and the base mechanics of the game do not hinder you at all unlike WHFB did
Because there basically are no mechanics of the game that matter. It is all dice rolling with very little tactical choice. Of course there are many archetypes that can be good, because nothing players do in game really matters.

>>52649985
>I can't believe I had to explain that.
You are talking to someone who enjoys AoS, you should really expect that kind of thing.

>>52649790
>You can do all Cavalry armies, all monster armies and so forth and the base mechanics of the game do not hinder you at all unlike WHFB did.
Honestly, kings of war does that too and with a solid, fast and fun to play ruleset unlike AoS.

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>>52650037
>Problem with this picture is the same with the guy trying to prove an airplane is better than a car. Each has its own quality and no one can say one is "better" than the other due to it being two entirely different vehicles.
No, we are having a debate about whether an airplane is faster than a car. And GW retards are scared of flying so they keep saying "CAR REEEEEE" and hoping everyone else will get bored and go away.

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>>52650307
>He has never seen a KD miniature aside from the promotional pinups
>There are literal greens of the miniatures
>He accuses KD miniatures of being monopose CADs while defending AOS
Hilarious.

>>52650327
>Because there are basically no mechanics of the game that matter

Activation order, piling in, Turn priority. Hell, there is a fucking ton of Tactical choice, People often complain about Strategic choice because the overarching layout of your army matters much less in AoS because it can be far more focused on individual units.

Large tarpits for example are not the be all and end all infantry formation. In fact, Large glass cannons are just as good.

>>52650037
>single mono-posed metal models to a multi part plastic kit
I don't think I have ever seen GW minis posed in a way that is
A. Different enough to be noticable from one another
B. Doesn't look retarded

So I'm not sure multipose should be used as a compliment.

>>52650362
>Kings of War does that.

Not really, Monsters are regulated to "Support" unless they are ogres, because Kings of War is effectively a dumbed down 6th edition.

AoS has Monsters that can be damage dealers, damage sponges AND support very well.

>>52650380
Well, the game developers have erased most of the possible tactical depth, but even in a 4-page excuse of a ruleset it was impossible to entirely avoid *any* possible tactical value.

>>52650136
+1 WS was useless in some scenarios, very useful in others. Wow, having to set up the scenarios where it is useful! Clearly to complicated for an Age of Shitmar mouth breather.

>>52646191
you know it's good bait because I fell for it

>no ws chart or s+t chart means there's no such thing as favourable combats

Straight up lie, if anything because your blob of nurgle warriors is actually threatened by clanrats it means that it's even more important to pick favorable melee engagements. Everything is able to threaten models which means you need to rely on using terrain and other units to outmaneuver your opponent. Setting up charges where you have an extra combat activation and mitigating damage coming back into you is very important.

>pinning archers in melee has no benefit

you mean besides slaughtering them in the combat phase?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/?s=tactical+toolbox

>model quality isn't dynamic

bloodwarriors are incredible, even the new steampunk dwarves have a lot of movement in them, compare them to anything designed to rank up and it's obvious that ditching ranks and square bases means model poses can be much more dynamic.

If you don't know what I'm talking about hunt down some 25mmx50mm cav bases and try to rank chaos knights (hint they're 55mm wide so they don't rank up)

>poster boy is copies of a cad model

oh no, the starter set push fit models are simple to put together

pretty much this point was a knee-jerk reaction to seeing the starter set miniatures (which are still the most detailed and incredible models to be in a gw starter set)

this is akin to complaining about the island of blood clanrats which are one piece mono-pose models. It's ill-founded and wrong.

>AoS lacks strategic depth

Then why is GW running GTs for it, why are there tactical articles published by GW, why are there podcasts discussing tactics, why is the game alive when all the haters said it would be dead in a year?

These "arguments" are baseless and made without any real substance, simply saying something doesn't make it true, the sky is not red no matter how vehemently you shout it.

>>52650380
It is a fucking skirmish game where facing does not matter.

>>52650368
But anon all those comparison image have bad looking models.

>>52650373
>W-we totally do greens I swear
>the Greens are literally the completed model.

How to tell it's all fake

>Concept are is 1:1 the same as the model.